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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-21

---Logopened Sun Jul 21 00:00:17 2019
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00:05-!-dboehmer___ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:41-!-victor_ is "Victor Caldas" on #debian
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00:56-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian
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02:10<onworks>hi
02:11-!-onworks is now known as MonsterCat
02:11<MonsterCat>hi onworks
02:11-!-MonsterCat is now known as onworks
02:12<onworks>hi MonsterCat
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02:57-!-victor_ is "Victor Caldas" on #debian-devel-br #debian
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03:16-!-Bertone is "Roberto Zanandrea" on #debian
03:17<Eryn_1983_FL>say my name say my name.. when nobody is around you, say baby i love you...
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03:17<Eryn_1983_FL>nm
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04:07-!-isaagar is "I Sagar" on #debian #debian-gnukhata
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04:11-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian.or.at #security #debian
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04:27-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-xfce #debconf-miniauditorio
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04:46-!-olivierb is "Olivier Bitsch" on #debian
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05:04-!-EmleyMoor_ is "Phil Reynolds" on #debian
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05:06<EmleyMoor>Quick test to see how many times I now see my own messages
05:07<EmleyMoor>Once. Great, that's resolved.
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06:11<michaelh>Hi, I'm running Buster and noticed that I couldn't find the manpage package for gcc. I found here https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/523080 that it hasn't been packaged yet. Does that mean we'll never see it in stable, since that is not a security update?
06:11<michaelh>In Buster that is
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06:16-!-thiras is "Ant" on #debian #linode #tami
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06:21<michaelh>It the answer is yes, is there some way I can get hold of it anyway but still being on stable? I'd really like to have the gcc manual.
06:21<michaelh>*If
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06:34<TobiX>michaelh: It seems it's also broken in the manpages online viewer: https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/gcc-doc/gcc.1.en.html :/
06:42<TobiX>michaelh: You can probably just install those packages from testing or wait for a backport, if someone builds one...
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06:45-!-debacle_ is "debacle_" on #debian #debconf-hamburg
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06:46-!-bapi is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian @#irc.debian.org
06:46<bapi>Hi everyone
06:47-!-kritzefitz [~kritzefit@dslb-178-010-000-151.178.010.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
06:47-!-kritzefitz is "Sven Bartscher" on #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
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06:49-!-kritzefitz is "Sven Bartscher" on #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
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06:51<michaelh>Alright, thanks TobiX
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07:24-!-yht is "Yudha H Tejaningrat" on #debian #debian-java #debian-next #lxde #openjdk #qemu #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-mobile #tor-project #virt
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07:30-!-dpalacio is "dpalacio" on #debian-kde #debian-co #debian-es #debian
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07:36<Anna>Hello
07:36-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.5]
07:36<Anna>I amseeking help for install nvidia-driver in debian 10
07:36<Anna>but I dont find no one
07:36<Anna>Am I right here to ask questions?
07:37<dboles>yes. just ask your specific question and if anyone who is online can help they will
07:37<dboles>!ask
07:37<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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07:40-!-halbbalda is "Nope" on #debian-next #debian #C
07:41<Anna>thankyou. I will ask my specific question soon
07:41<Anna>:-)
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07:42<Guest8041>Debian not showing power/battery icon...
07:43<dboles>which version of debian, with which desktop, on which hardware, when charging and/or not charging, etc.
07:44<dboles>think about the kind of info people would need to recognise/diagnose your problem
07:45<Guest8041>Debian 10, on HP Elitebook 2560P laptop
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07:54<dboles>"with which desktop"
07:54<dboles>"when charging and/or not charging"
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07:54-!-the-dude is "Martijn van B" on #debian
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07:57<Guest8041>cinnamon
07:58<Guest8041>Both when charging and when not charging ....I can't see the battery icon
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08:17<shiven302>hi
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09:09<sakax>Hi all, last week I upgraded to Buster. There seems to be something wrong with xfce4-sensors plugin. each time I restart my machine I doesnt appear and I have to manually add it again to my panel
09:09<sakax>this worked without issues in stretch, anyone facing similar issues?
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09:31<wolfmannight>Hi, I'm interested in maintaining deb package. anyone guide me ?
09:31<bremner>wolfmannight: if it's for Debian, #debian-mentors is dedicated to helping people learn
09:31<Vergo>#debian-mentors is most likely the more correct channel
09:31<wolfmannight>okey thanks
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10:10<kat>hi
10:10-!-kat is now known as Guest8057
10:10<Guest8057>okay
10:11<Guest8057>What is the best debian distribution
10:11<themill>Debian.
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10:16<dboles>!next
10:16<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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10:39<wolfmannight>he meant debian based distros. like ubuntu, deepin etc.
10:39<wolfmannight>LoL
10:39<Talkless>"Another happy customer leaves the building." :D
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10:46<dboles>...which are not on topic here, and even if they were, they still wouldn't be as that would be a purely opinion-based discussions or chat
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11:30<plantman2>I think Debian is the best, because they allow you to download the whole repos with jigdo.
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11:34<leslie>anybody here?
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11:36<annadane>yup!
11:36<annadane>oh. oh well
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11:37<dboles>what did they want, 563 affirmations?
11:40<Mikaela>or maybe they didn't know the word for desktop environment and wondered which live iso to get? which is a question I couldn't answer though as I am jumping so much (previously KDE Plasma, now Xfce4 to which I tend to install i3)
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11:49<lolcat--007>hi i have a problem when i intro to the tty i get this display error
11:49<lolcat--007>https://pasteboard.co/Ip1tXcn.jpg
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12:13<lolcat--007>??
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12:17<Mikaela>lolcat--007, Hi, is it possible that your display cable is loose or there is something wrong with the display itself?
12:17<Mikaela>(that is the only case I have seen similar, otherwise I have no idea)
12:17<dboles>i assume, by omission, that you have no such graphical artefacts when running a GUI, only when tty ?
12:20<lolcat--007>dboles: i have a laptop with intel graphic and yes the errors appear in the tty and also when i switch users
12:20<dboles>but not in the GUI/desktop ?
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12:21<lolcat--007>dboles: not in the GUI desktop ass you say it
12:22<lolcat--007>dboles: what do you think can be??
12:22<dboles>if i knew, i would say
12:23<lolcat--007>dboles: yes it is a weird error
12:23<lolcat--007>that never happend to me
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12:46<lolcat--007>ok i gonna post tomorrow again this error maybe tomorrow i have luck with someone else
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13:00<naju>hi
13:00<sakax>someone experiencing issues xfce4-sensors-plugin on Buster, settings lost after reboot
13:00<sakax>?
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13:04<wannabe-mirror>buster makes my computer run warmer then it did with stretch. far warmer. is this normal?
13:04<bremner>try powertop?
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13:32<petn-randall>wannabe-mirror: It's to give you this warm feeling after installing the new release. It's in the release notes.
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13:50<vadear>I installed buster on my Acer Aspire E5-576G laptop which has a backlit keyboard but pressing Fn F9 does not enable activate it. How can i solve the problem? Do i have to edit any configuration files on buster? Pressing Fn and F8 enables/disables sound, that works as expected. The combinations Fn F5, Fn F6, Fn F7 Fn F8 also work as expected.
13:52<vadear>I have noticed that whenever I press Fn F9 which should enable/disable the backlit keyboard but it does not, dmesg tells me : acer_wmi: Unknown key number - 0x84
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13:57<Vergo>vadear: possibly something kernel related, can't see 0x84 defined at least here when 0x83 and 0x85 have been mentioned: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/platform/x86/acer-wmi.c
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13:59<vadear>Vergo, how is a desktop newbie supposed to understand the info on that github link?
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13:59<dboles>by learning? again, you still have the option of simply filing a bug and letting more technical users do all the work if you want to
14:00<Vergo>vadear: I ended up on that page by searching for the acer-wmi kernel module and then on that page searched for 0x84 but didn't get a hit, however searching 0x83 gives you the section where the key codes have been defined and 0x84 is indeed missing
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14:02<dboles>is it possible that it's not there because there'd never be any need for the OS to see it? e.g. it's good for the OS to know about volume/brightness keys so that it can show overlays or control other mixers or whatever, but the backlight toggle is so simple that maybe it should just get passed straight to the firmware?
14:03<Vergo>at least I have no idea how that's been done before it if worked, quickly looking at the change history didn't show anything obvious and on the other hand the display brightness control is there
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14:03<vadear>https://www.linuxmintusers.de/index.php?topic=42935.0
14:03<jhutchins>vadear: Function key mappings are not standard but up to individual manufacturers. You may be able to find mapping files for your model, but if not you can read up on key mapping and build one yourself.
14:04<sakax>I can reproduce my issue with xfce4-sensors-plugin
14:04<vadear>It is in German but the guy basically reports that whenever he pressed Fn F9 dmesg tells him : acer_wmi: Unknown key number - 0x84
14:05<sakax>I you have select suppress tooltips in its configuration screen, the whole configuration of xfce4-sensors-plugin gets deleted after reboot
14:06<dboles>a clear bug then, so please file it upstraem
14:06<vadear>The German speaking guy also reports that there is no mention of a backlit keyboard in hi laptop' s /sys/class/leds/ directory
14:06<sakax>dboles: would be nice if someone could verify before filing a bug report
14:07<sakax>brb
14:07<vadear>jhutchins, how can a desktop newbie do what you are suggesting?
14:08<dboles>"you can read up"
14:08<vadear>The German speaking guy also has an Acer Aspire laptop
14:08<dboles>you don't have to be a desktop newbie forever and that's not necessarily an excuse to expect that the stars will align and someone who has the exact, easy enough solution for your specific problem will happen to be on an IRC channel at the same time as you
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14:10<dboles>hence why it's probably best to either read up, or if you don't/can't, then file a bug on an asynchronous medium like the debian bug tracker - which is the right place for this anyway, if you can verify that this is a regression in debian 10, i.e. if you've tested a live version of 9 and it works again there
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14:11<Vergo>testing older releases and other distributions using a livecd could provide some idea if the issue is buster specific
14:11<vadear>dboles, a tutorial would be nice but have not found any so far
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14:14<dboles>Vergo: i would say that is essential at this point, to determine whether the key combo has stopped working or alternatively the backlight has died
14:15<vadear>to find out whether the backlight has died or not, one must disassemble the laptop!
14:16<Vergo>possibly not, many laptops will enable the keyboard backlight for few seconds during bios init
14:17<dboles>vadear: no, you could simply test the version of debian that you say it previously worked under, and it will either work again or will not, and if it doesn't work anymore, that suggests it is not debian's fault
14:20<vadear>dboles, i did test the version of debian that the laptop' s backlit keyboard previously worked under but the backlit keyboard did not work. I have to point out that stretch was installed on the hard disk and to perform the test you suggested i used a live version of stretch
14:26<vadear>and that live version of stretch was the same one i had installed on the hard drive when the backlit keyboard worked
14:27<dboles>it points at the light being out then. if as Vergo said there doesnt look to have been any code change in the wmi module, and all the other keys work fine in both 9/10, then it doesn't seem like it's the os/software causing the problem
14:27<dboles>so long as you didn't have to do anything special to get the backlight (and that only) working when you had 9 installed on the disk
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14:30<vadear>dboles, i remember that the backlit keyboard did not work when i installed stretch and that i gave the laptop to a guy to do some post-configuration and then the backlit keyboard worked. Unfortunately, i have lost all contact with that guy
14:30<dboles>right, well that suggests it's not *really* debian's fault then, or at least not a regression on 9 to 10
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14:37<Vergo>vadear: this may help if the issue is in some way kernel related: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/disabled-acer-wmi-afterward-my-brightness-keys-no-longer-work/20220/3
14:37<sakax>dboles: I filed a Debian bug, the website insists in filing Debian bug instead of reporting upstream: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
14:38<dboles>great
14:39<vadear>Vergo, are you suggesting that i should have a line in /etc/default/grub that read: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash acpi_osi='!Windows 2012'"
14:40<Vergo>vadear: I'm suggesting you try adding acpi_osi='!Windows 2012' to the parameters GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT currently has in that file
14:41<vadear>ok, will do so and report back later. thanks
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14:49<vadear>Vergo, it did not make any difference
14:49<Vergo>vadear: did you also run the update-grub command after editing the file?
14:49<vadear>yes
14:50<Vergo>ok, then revert the file back to what it was if it didn't help in any way
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15:00<vadear>Vergo, ok
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15:13<viccuad>Hello folks. For a lately libreoffice update, I get a lot of `file has unexpected size` https://paste.debian.net/plain/1092554. Am I the only seeing this? I suppose it's not a mirror thing, since this comes from security.debian.org
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15:14<viccuad>I have done an `apt-get clean`
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15:17<Blacker47>viccuad, [IP: ::1 3142] sounds like a local apt-proxy or mirror that have some problems...
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15:19<Blacker47>viccuad, also your dns could be not working, giving ::1 for security.debian.org
15:21<jmcnaught>3142 is the port used by apt-cacher-ng by default
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15:23<viccuad>Blacker47 jmcnaught : yes, that's the culprit, which I haven't found out exactly why, yet. But many thanks
15:26<viccuad>I ended up nuking apt-cacher-ng's cache and it's gone. Thanks, and sorry for the silliness..
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16:47<hexa->With buster, will 70-persistent-net.rules still work? I currently don't see a reason why it wouldn't, so I'm asking
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16:55<jmcnaught>hexa-: the release notes say it's no longer officially supported but might still work: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names
16:55<hexa->yeah, I read that
16:56<hexa->I see no reason why udev rules would stop working though
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16:58<jmcnaught>It's likely more to do with the file not being included by upstream anymore, and so it's now a less tested configuration.
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17:25<josef>d
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17:29<josef>Hello i have a question i started working in an web agency and we are using debian 8 at the moment with plesk, we recently upgraded to 8 and now we want to upgrade to debian 9, our CEO wants me to upgrade to the latest version to get the latest PHP version, when should we upgrade to the latest stable debian version any suggestions ?
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17:32<Mikaela>Hi, I think you should upgrade 8->9 before 9->10 and I think there is a rule of thumb of upgrading to new release when the first point release is made. Good night
17:33<josef>thanks Mikalea
17:34<bremner>you should definitely not skip releases
17:34<bremner>you should upgrade to 9 ASAP
17:35<bremner>For when to upgrade to 10, that's more a judgement call. If you don't need something specific in 10, then waiting until 10.1 sounds reasonable ot me
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17:36<josef>thanks bremner
17:39<josef>so this should be about in september am i right ?
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18:03<RedSoxFan07>I inherited an Asus ROG G75V laptop from my technologically-challenged grandmother who bought a new laptop just because the salesman told her to. I'm trying to install Debian, but even with the non-free firmware Debian 10 installer, I just keep getting GRUB when I boot from the installer flash drive. What am I missing?
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18:06<rant>uh.. you're suppose to be "getting GRUB"
18:07<RedSoxFan07>rant: Yeah, but not first thing.
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18:07<rant>yes, first thing.. grub is what boots things
18:07<RedSoxFan07>rant: Right, but it just brings me to GRUB's bash prompt.
18:07<rant>unless you mean the grub commandline, in which case you probably diodnt write the media correctly
18:07<rant>and thats not bash
18:07<RedSoxFan07>rant: Ah.
18:08<RedSoxFan07>rant: I used Gnome Disks' restore feature to write the media.
18:08<RedSoxFan07>rant: I guess it's back to Etcher.
18:08<rant>idk wtf that is, but don't do it, and dont use etcher either
18:08<rant>do what it says in the release notes ffs
18:08<rant>if you're on linux, just use cp
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18:09<rant>cp debian.iso /dev/sdc or whatever
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18:09<rant>make sure the media is not mounted when doing it
18:10<RedSoxFan07>rant: oh, okay.
18:10<rant>use lsblk or dmesg|grep sd or such to figure out what the device name is
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18:11<asdas>hey
18:11<asdas>Can you proxy HexChat with tor?
18:12<asdas>Am I proxed?
18:12<rant>no
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18:13<rant>you can proxy anything if you wanted to.. but you are not currently using a proxy..
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18:19<rant>I guess they didnt want to know how to do it, just if they could and were doing it..
18:19<rant>which I find rather odd
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21:03<k-man>on one of my machines that is still on stretch. I have zfs-dkms from stretch-backports, however now I have a clash like this: zfsutils-linux : Conflicts: insserv (< 1.18) but 1.14.0-5.4+b1 is to be installed
21:03<k-man>if I try and remove insserv, it wants to remove things like init initscripts insserv openrc systemd-sysv
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21:11<jmcnaught>!bat
21:11<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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21:14<k-man>https://paste.debian.net/1092569/
21:14<k-man>what does bat stant for?
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21:15<jmcnaught>basic apt troubleshooting
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21:15<k-man>ah :)
21:15<k-man>thanks
21:15<k-man>my gut feeling is taht insserv is left over from pre systemd, and for whatever reason wasn't removed when I updated debian to stretch some time ago
21:16<k-man>I have other stretch machines that don't seem to have insserv installed
21:16<sqrt{not}>k-man: can you install the non-backport zfsutils 0.6.5.9-5 from regular stretch, not stretch-backports ?
21:16<k-man>hmm good point
21:17<jmcnaught>zfsutils-linux 0.6.5.9-5 is already installed according to the paste
21:17<k-man>oh yeah. that is correct
21:17<sqrt{not}>that version is not the one with the conflict...
21:17<sqrt{not}>is it trying to install the backport version ?
21:18<k-man>my plan is to install the backport version, as zfs-dkms backport version is installed
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21:19<jmcnaught>k-man: can you make a paste of what it wants to remove along with insserv?
21:19<k-man>one sec
21:20<sqrt{not}>the first line of the paste shows trying to install the backport version.....
21:20<k-man>https://paste.debian.net/1092570/
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21:21<CHANGA>YO
21:21<sqrt{not}>it looks like the backport zfsutils is not required, the non-backport should work.
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21:24<jmcnaught>k-man: you should be able to keep the init and systemd-sysv packages installed. What happens if you try removing openrc first?
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21:26<k-man>til there is a package called bum
21:27<k-man>https://paste.debian.net/1092571/
21:36<jmcnaught>k-man: hmm… I don't know why it wants to install sysv-rc there. Do you have the init-system-helpers package installed?
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21:39<k-man>jmcnaught: yes, v 1.48
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21:46<jmcnaught>k-man: does 'apt-get -s remove insserv init+ systemd-sysv+' want to do something different?
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21:57<twb>On stretch, how do I tell what pid1 init is *running* right now? (as opposed to what wil be the pid1 init after a reboot)
21:58<twb>Solved
21:58<twb>sudo ls -ld /proc/1/exe --> /lib/systemd/systemd
21:59<twb>(The other admin managed to accidentally install openrc, but hasn't rebooted, so we're still OK)
22:00<k-man>that was me - i was just discussing this issue with jmcnaught
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22:00<twb>Yeah I didn't want to name names ;-)
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22:01<twb>I haven't gone through the full apt/dpkg log yet, but something caused initscripts+openrc+insserv to be installed, which (I think) caused zfs to be downgraded from /stretch-backports to /stretch
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22:02<twb>grep -Fw none /var/log/dpkg.log.1 | less
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22:04<twb>sysv-rc was removed, openrc was installed, zfsutils-linux was removed, about an hour later zfsutils-linux was reinstalled (but wrong version)
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22:07<jmcnaught>Was sysv-rc needed for zfs? It's not installed on my stretch systemd system.
22:09<twb>it's not clear why that happened
22:09<twb>I'm guessing some minor package asked for it by name because it was a bit derp
22:10<twb>I also asked #zfsonlinux if zfsutils-linux and zfs-zed can have versioned dependencies on their libraries, to avoid this specific cock-up happening again
22:10<twb>If they don't answer I'll reportbug it
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22:30<bulverismo>oi
22:31<annadane>oi
22:31<bulverismo>minha primeira vez aqui
22:31<bulverismo>e vc?
22:31<azeem>!pt
22:31<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
22:36<bulverismo>alguém interessado em conversar?
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23:04<nezZario>Just want to throw this out there,...
23:04<nezZario>Has anyone ever used FAI + debuerrostrap together to create both 'cloud' images (ec2, gcp) as well as docker base images?
23:05<nezZario>I'm trying to figure this out. I have FAI images generating pretty easily with debian-cloud-images on salsa
23:06<nezZario>But FAI and the cobble of scripts used to generate the docker images, while they both appear to have the same goal do it wildly differently
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23:11<bulverTreta>oi
23:11<HACL>bulvert teta
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23:39<twb>nezZario: I haven't done FAI for a long long long time
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 22 00:00:19 2019