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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-25

---Logopened Thu Jul 25 00:00:23 2019
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02:11<mohammed>hi
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03:35<Passerby>Is there a way to get "aptitude why" functionality without aptitude? I don't want to install Yet Another Package Manager™ if possible.
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03:42<EmleyMoor>Is there a good architecture NOT amd64 supporting 8 or more SATA disks I could get into cheaply? Preferably a cool runner with the core parts on a module not the motherboard
03:44<annadane>Passerby, not sure but i guess you can apt depends <package>
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03:46<annadane>apt depends/apt rdepends
03:46<annadane>which AFAIK is basically how aptitude checks, it doesn't actually check the history.log to see that package y was installed as a dependency/recommends of package x
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03:47<annadane>i'm not entirely certain
03:48<annadane>now, that said - i LOVE aptitude. heretic! burn!
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03:49<nezZario>Hey uh guys
03:49<nezZario>What is going on in apt repos?
03:49<nezZario>non-free/dep11/Components-amd64.yml
03:49<nezZario>This is new
03:54<nezZario>Huh, .. Does anyonne know how long this 'AppStream data hints' have been in the apt repo http/ftp mirrors? .. I've never seen it until now and I've literally been writing a tool to parse apt for the last week or two
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03:58<Passerby>annadane: Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried various commands, and each of them produces a different list of packages. 😕 I'm about to install aptitude just to find out which one is right.
03:58<annadane>i suppose if you had method such and such to determine package dependency where y apparently relied on x but x got removed but z can provide some of x's functionality...
03:59<annadane>then some methods may show y is there "because z"
03:59<annadane>anyway
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04:18<neff_>Hello guys.I have a maybe stupid question,but it bothers me long time.Can you anybody give me some resourses there i can find all about configuration stuff?Config files,meaning of options?
04:19<EmleyMoor>neff_: Because of the wide variety we would need to know which ones you want to know about
04:19<neff_>I want to learn,step by step.I think must be some resoursec for beginner to advanced
04:20<EmleyMoor>neff_, Yes, but which BIT of the system do you want to start with? Config files are per app, and totally variable per app, though some similarities will exist
04:23<neff_>Well a little bit newbie qustions.For examle pulseaudio.Okey i found a config file,some guy help me with it,he is explain me how to fix it,how to make sound better,and all...but where he is get this all info??? :)))
04:23<neff_>I want to be smart to :)
04:24<EmleyMoor>neff_, from pulseaudio's documentation
04:24<jm_>!grounding
04:24<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
04:24<jm_>lots of useful stuff there
04:24<EmleyMoor>Like *most* users, you'll probably find it best to concentrate on the apps, utilities, libraries etc. you're particularly interested in
04:26<neff_>Okey but some times a documentation is awful!For exampe XFCE i cant found nothing about files of it in system.jm_ thank you,will chek it
04:27<neff_>Well.ok.I think i keep read :)
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04:27<jm_>neff_: yeah for some apps it's probably not meant to be user editable and for others, no-one stepped up to write documentation
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04:27<EmleyMoor>Often /usr/share/dock/pkgname/examples or similar may have an annotated sample config in it. Some documentation is awful.
04:28<EmleyMoor>doc*
04:29<neff_>WOW! :))) Thank you :)
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04:32*EmleyMoor has hooked his laptop up to the keyboard and monitor for now due to his desktop machine being out of action
04:32<EmleyMoor>Taking it somewhere cooler later to hopefully take mitigating action to get it working again
04:34<EmleyMoor>Expected temperature of 39°C/102°F in London today
04:35<neff_>Something wrong with world.I am at middle of desert and temperature +29,and you talking about +39(!!!!) in London....oh my....
04:36<neff_>Must be config or something :D
04:36<rgrewe>Same for Germany :-D
04:37<EmleyMoor>27 already here
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04:38<rgrewe>Currently we have 33°C at office, but we get ice to cool :-D
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04:54<Passerby>Holy heck, the dependency list for devscripts is a long one.
04:55<Passerby>I feel like I'm installing gnome-kde-chromium-dev.
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05:03<nikos>Passerby: Indeed. --no-recommends cuts that a lot thankfully
05:03<nikos>--no-install-recommends sorry
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05:12<Passerby>nikos: Thank you. Yes, it does.
05:14*Passerby considers making --no-install-recommends the default.
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05:17-!-Talkless is "Vincas" on #debian-next #debian
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05:23-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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05:24-!-heroux is "heroux" on #lyx #virt #debian-next #debian-meeting #debian
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05:46-!-Javi is "Javier" on #debian #debian-es
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05:46-!-bluewater is "Trevor Walkey" on #aptosid-dev #aptosid-docs #aptosid #debian-next #debian
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05:52-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
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05:52-!-sadrak|work1 is "purple" on #debian
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05:55-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #qemu #llvmlinux
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06:04-!-a_landim_xhkl is "realname" on #debian #debian-br
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06:10-!-qwer is "alfa omega" on #debian
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06:11-!-sadrak|work is "purple" on #debian
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06:14-!-raj_ is "realname" on #debian
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06:19-!-raj_ is "realname" on #debian
06:19<raj_>hi
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06:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 590] by debhelper
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06:33-!-netvor is "amahdal" on #debian
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06:34-!-jathan is "jathan" on #debian
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06:49-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-es #debian-next #debian-offtopic #packaging
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06:53-!-thiras is "Ant" on #debian #linode #tami
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07:27-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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07:29-!-avu is "jmh" on #debian
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07:29-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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07:30-!-dpalacio is "dpalacio" on #debian-kde #debian-co #debian-es #debian
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07:45-!-weinzwang is "Weinzwang" on #ceph-devel #ceph #debian
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07:54-!-aigarius is "Aigars Mahinovs" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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07:54-!-burakayax is "realname" on #debian
07:55<burakayax>hi
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07:55-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debconf-auditorio #debconf-miniauditorio
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08:05-!-wololoer is "user" on #qemu #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
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08:05-!-Nox is "Nox" on #debian
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08:05-!-bpsecret is "bpsecret" on #tor-project #tor-dev #tor-bots #debian #Qubes_OS
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08:07-!-wololoer is "user" on #qemu #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
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08:08-!-wololoer is "user" on #qemu #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
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08:09-!-drzacek is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #linux-rt #packaging @#debian-mentor
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08:15-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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08:29-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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08:32-!-klepvink is "klepvink" on #debian
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08:45-!-ggjjkb is "fnnko" on #debian
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08:51-!-piper is "Ralph Hokanson" on #debian-offtopic #debian-live #debian-apt #packaging #debian-desktop #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
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08:56-!-czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #debian-next #debian
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08:59-!-_pa is "_pa" on #qemu #Corsair #linux #moocows #debian
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09:01-!-pcdummy is "pcdummy,,," on #ovirt #oftc #debian #debian-next
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09:16-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
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09:47-!-larjona_ is "Laura Arjona Reina" on #SunCamp16 #debian-devel-es #928099 #debian #debian-es #debian-meeting #debian-gnupg #debian-l10n-spanish #debconf-miniauditorio #debian-dpp #debconf-videoconferencia #debian-fediverse #meetbot #923252 #debian-a11y #debian-madrid #backchannel #debconf-auditorio #debian-next #debconf-cambridge #debconf-hamburg #dpp
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09:50-!-larjona_ is "Laura Arjona Reina" on #SunCamp16 #debian-devel-es #928099 #debian #debian-es #debian-meeting #debian-gnupg #debian-l10n-spanish #debconf-miniauditorio #debian-dpp #debconf-videoconferencia #debian-fediverse #meetbot #923252 #debian-a11y #debian-madrid #backchannel #debconf-auditorio #debian-next #debconf-cambridge #debconf-hamburg #dpp
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09:56<tonl>Got a problem with buster installation to HP laptop. GUI doesn't work. Yesterday got around it using debian-live, which was able to get GUI running fine, and installed it to hard disk. But didn't like it and decided to try to make regular buster work. Used firmware for amd64 in last attempt. Tried installing mate only, plain DE only, same result. Only difference is that default uses tty1 for GUI and the
09:57<tonl>others tty7. Need help to fix this. Thanks.
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10:03<tonl>Another detail: stretch installed fine using regular installation methdos, the "uograde" to buster has failed. What did stretch installation have that is missing in buster?
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10:06<jhutchins_wk>Probably GPU firmware
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10:14<tonl>Hmm, I used the firmware version... But I remember seeing something when booting about some firmaware requiring something. How do i test/fix it?
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12:05<ozzo>Hi. I'm really struggling to find an answer to this one. In a preseed how can I tell the debian-installer to accept the default answer (a string), whatever it is, without overwriting it?
12:05<ozzo>the postinst script sets a sensible default. I just want to accept it.
12:07<ozzo>looks like it should be the most obvious thing, but it is not ...
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12:21<tch>Hello, is it normal that I don't get LXDE menu entries for applications installed via snap and flatpak?
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12:47<jhutchins_wk>tch: Yes.
12:48<tch>jhutchins_wk: Can I somehow enable these manually?
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12:54<jhutchins_wk>tch: Yes, you can manually create menu items. I don't have the details, I believe you drop a .desktop file in a certain directory.
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12:55<jhutchins_wk>The problem is that those package managers do not actually integrate with the Debian desktops.
12:55<tch>jhutchins_wk: You mean any desktop, no just LXDE?
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12:57<jhutchins_wk>tch: Correct.
12:57<tch>Alright, thanks! I'll try to figure out how to add these menu entries manually.
12:58<jhutchins_wk>Most DEs these days follow the guidelines from https://freedesktop.org
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13:22<Pungent_VPS>tch: most DEs have a way to edit the menus. Sometimes it's an app called Menu Editor or manager, others you right click on the main menu and select edit menus
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13:23<hacker99>Hello
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13:25<hacker99>my debian froze when I woke it up just now.
13:25<hacker99>was running a node server
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13:25<monica>lol
13:26<Ryblade>that sucks
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13:26<hacker99>why? >_<
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13:29<Ryblade>is it still considered good practice to leave a bit of space at the end of an HDD when partitioning, so that it can borrow from the unallocated space when encountering a bad sector?
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13:32<nezZario>Hm, I didn't even know that was a thing.
13:32<nezZario>I know no one cares about separate partitions under / anymore
13:33<Ryblade>yeah, i remember that from a while back, apparently if there's a bad sector on a partition, the OS will flag the sector automatically and remap that sector to a good, unallocated one
13:34<Ryblade>me neither, well, aside from /boot/efi of course :)
13:35<Ryblade>but yeah i'm not sure if i'm just dating myself with that knowledge, for all i know hard drives have another way of handling that issue now.
13:36*dboles listens with interset
13:36*dboles ...or interest even
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13:38<Ryblade>ah well, i suppose either way it wouldn't hurt to have some free space.
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13:39<tch>Pungent_VPS: Yes, well LXDE doesn't, at least the Debian default. All that right-clicking lets me do is change the menu icon. But I'll see if I can use some other DE's menu editor or something. Thanks!
13:39<petn-randall>Ryblade: The reserve sectors are not accessible to the OS, so it doesn't make sense to leave some space free at the end.
13:40<Ryblade>oh cool, good to know, petn-randall.
13:40<petn-randall>Ryblade: You *could* argue that it helps with wear leveling on SSDs, but practically all modern SSDs support ATA TRIM commands, making that practice obsolete, too.
13:40<Ryblade>man, i'm out of date. you don't need to overprovision with SSDs anymore?
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13:46<Ryblade>hmm, seems at least i need to still overprovision with my SSDs. they're on that kernel blacklist of drives that suck with TRIM.
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13:46<reallyOld>hi, really really dumb question
13:46<reallyOld>but I run a critical server that is running debian lenny
13:47<reallyOld>and we don't know if future versions will work
13:47<reallyOld>so, how do i launch the installer on a livecd for debian 5.0?
13:47-!-jcarr [~jcarr@2604:bbc0:3:3:0:10:0:1003] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<jmcnaught>Wouldn't it make more sense to test the software on a newer version that's actually supported?
13:47<reallyOld>that's the plan when we get this back up
13:48<reallyOld>but we don't want to break things
13:48<jmcnaught>Sounds like it's already broken. Lenny support ended in 2012.
13:48<reallyOld>I tried debian-installer-launcher but no dice
13:49<reallyOld>yeah the install crapped itself. old sysadmin installed this a long time ago and has left
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13:50<Ryblade>is it possible to make an image of the server, try a newer debian on it, then flash the old image back on if disaster strikes? or does this server need to be on 24/7?
13:50<reallyOld>the old install broke, and i was tasked to get it up and running asap
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13:51<petn-randall>reallyOld: What kind of software is running on it?
13:51<petn-randall>reallyOld: You're probably better off installing a fresh buster, and migrating the services to the new installation.
13:51<reallyOld>something built in house
13:52<Ryblade>if this server is online, you really should upgrade, for the sake of security :(
13:52<stw>Can you still rebuild it with modern dependencies?
13:52<reallyOld>it's only internal
13:52<stw>s/it/your software/
13:52<Ryblade>phew, that helps.
13:52<reallyOld>stw i was tasked to do that, but if possible i need this up and running asap
13:53<reallyOld>just old rickety systems
13:53<petn-randall>reallyOld: Since you'll otherwise have to upgrade from lenny -> squeeze -> wheezy -> jessie -> stretch -> buster. And that will take a lot longer than a fresh install.
13:53-!-yaN- [~yaN@200.46.48.250] has joined #debian
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13:53<reallyOld>well we're rewriting the application for a modern system
13:54<yaN->hey guys
13:54<petn-randall>reallyOld: Then I'd just fix it so much to get it running again, for now.
13:54<petn-randall>hi yaN-
13:54<Ryblade>yo
13:54<reallyOld>we don't know how long that'll take
13:54<yaN->i need help to fix jsf bug in my server
13:54<yaN->my server *vulnerable*
13:55<yaN->unserialize java
13:55<stw>In a worst-case, to get a lenny build working you can get lenny-software from the archive
13:55<stw>http://archive.debian.org/debian/
13:55<reallyOld>i got a mirror of the lenny archives runnign
13:55<yaN->anyone can help me?
13:55<proxykid>is debian 9 going to still be supported just until 2020? im running a vps and failed upgrade to buster due to host kernel version as it runs under openvz, so in order to keep using it should i just move to kvm?
13:55<reallyOld>hosted internally
13:55<reallyOld>i just can't figure out how to install this livecd
13:55<proxykid>or it could hold some years more
13:56<reallyOld>can't seem to find a graphic installer
13:56<petn-randall>proxykid: AFAIK there'll be a stretch LTS, you'll have to check how long the support timeline is there. And poke your provider to support newer Debian versions.
13:56<jmcnaught>proxykid: Debian 9 will get Long Term Support until 2022: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
13:57<petn-randall>yaN-: What OS release are you running?
13:57<stw>reallyOld: lenny installers available here: https://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/debian-installer/
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13:58<stw>Note: It's possible that a graphical installer wasn't available at the time.
13:58<Ryblade>wasn't there at least an ncurses-based installer back then?
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13:58<young>hello
13:58<Ryblade>greetings and salutations
13:59<jhutchins_wk>reallyOld: Why do you need an installer of the OS is already installed?
13:59<reallyOld>the install broke
13:59<reallyOld>im reinstalling
13:59<reallyOld>but that netinstall looks great
13:59<yaN->petn-randall linux debian
13:59<reallyOld>thank you
14:00<yaN->i need fix Java Server Faces against hackers
14:00<yaN->:/
14:00<Ryblade>yaN-: $ cat /etc/debian_version
14:00<yaN->7.11
14:00<yaN->Ryblade
14:01<proxykid>got it thank you!
14:01<yaN->and 8.11
14:01<yaN->two servers
14:02<young>how about debian ver 9.9
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14:02<stw>reallyOld: If I were you, I'd install one of the "full DVD sets" images. The netinst may point to a server which isn't online anymore.
14:04<Ryblade>yaN-: do you know which vulnerability you're affected by?
14:04<Ryblade>like, does it have a common name, or a CVE number?
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14:06<yaN->Ryblade i try this tool
14:06<yaN->https://github.com/joaomatosf/jexboss
14:06<yaN->flag --app-unserialize
14:08<yaN->python jexboss.py http://myserver.com/file.jsf --app-unserialeze
14:08<yaN->my server do a reverse conection with evil host :/
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14:10<petn-randall>yaN-: Your release isn't supported anymore, anyway.
14:10<petn-randall>!wheezy lts
14:10<dpkg>Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See http://deb.li/2aC for excluded packages. No changes to /etc/apt/sources.list are needed for wheezy-lts. limited commercial support extending further on exists in form of <elts>
14:10<petn-randall>yaN-: Security support ran out over two years ago. ^^^
14:12<petn-randall>yaN-: So I recommend taking it offline, and setting up a fresh installation with security support. You need to take extra care not to copy compromised data to the new server.
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14:15<yaN->:S
14:15<Ryblade>yaN-: as petn-randall mentioned, both of those servers are past EOL. however, your 7.11 server might still be able to use ELTS (at least until the end of the year) and your 8.11 server could use LTS until June 2020
14:16<Ryblade>https://wiki.debian.org/LTS https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
14:16<yaN->but i cant fix the bug in jsf whithout support?
14:16<petn-randall>It's also a good idea to review and revise the security concepts in your company.
14:17<yaN->separate
14:17<petn-randall>yaN-: What's the point? Everything else has security holes, too.
14:17<Ryblade>i did some reading and it seems that fixing JSF vulnerabilities mostly involves just upgrading
14:17<dboles>you might be able to, but i doubt many volunteers on this channel will want to help support versions that the debian team do not
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14:17<Ryblade>you could also disable or restrict the attack surface but that could have other unintended consequences
14:17<yaN->oh :/
14:18<petn-randall>yaN-: You're fixing one security hole, and leaving the other 20+ holes unaddressed.
14:18<Ryblade>yeah, go here and see how vulnerable you *really* are: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
14:19<Ryblade>that is, assuming server also has SSL/TLS, which if it's online it probably does
14:19<Ryblade>even still, java vulns are nasty, definitely upgrade, or at least switch to ELTS and LTS repositories in the mean time!
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14:20<Ryblade>seriously, just try switching to those repos, upgrade, then retest. the problem might go away. fingers crossed.
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14:21<Ryblade>and i shouldn't need to say this, but do a snapshot/backup first.
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14:22<yaN->ok i will try
14:22<yaN->thanks
14:22<yaN->:)
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14:24<Ryblade>np :)
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14:27<Ryblade>oh, and keep in mind that ELTS is a commercial project, but if you're doing this for a company, paying a little bit for security shouldn't be a problem.
14:28<Ryblade>it's that or upgrade to buster, but you'll be paying in time or money either way.
14:28<therightgamer>hi
14:29<Ryblade>actually, wait, i was wrong. security updates are free, non-security updates require you to sponsor the project. my bad.
14:29<therightgamer>one question: on debian 10 my barrier is not working, it seems connected but my other mouse is not moving
14:35<Ryblade>barrier?
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14:45<annadane>,i barrier
14:45<judd>Package barrier (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Share mouse, keyboard and clipboard over the network. Version: 2.1.2+dfsg-1; Size: 588.4k; Installed: 2583k; Homepage: https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/
14:45<annadane>^ that
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14:55<Ryblade>ah. yeah, no clue, sorry.
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14:56<ronnie>hi
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14:57<user>sergey
14:57<ronnie>how are ya
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14:58<Ryblade>i just got a few questions before upgrading to buster
14:59<Ryblade>does buster's version of GRUB support boot partitions within LVM, or does /boot/efi still need to be outside LVM?
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14:59<dboles>anyone else seeing a flickering line between the tab and address bars with firefox on debian/gnome?
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14:59<ronnie>Im on buster and my GRUB loader isnt on the LVM SSD
15:00<jmcnaught>Ryblade: /boot/efi will always need to be outside of LVM. /boot is also still inside LVM with the guided partitioning option.
15:00<jmcnaught>errr /boot is outside of LVM by default sorry
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15:01<Ryblade>alright, thought so. what about encryption? does buster support encrypted /boot?
15:01<jmcnaught>You would need to do it manually
15:01<jmcnaught>Buster supports Secure Boot though
15:02<petn-randall>Ryblade: yes, it does. Just LUKS1 on, though.
15:02<ronnie>Just wanne try buster out besides Windows
15:02<ronnie>Linux fan, but tbh im not really good at it
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15:02<ronnie>But, the love is there
15:03<Ryblade>if the love is there, then half the battle is already won, ronnie
15:03<ronnie>yeah so true
15:03<ronnie>Want to learn so much about linux
15:03<ronnie>Want to make it my own, tweak it a bit and so
15:04<Ryblade>i was in your shoes about 15 years ago, linux is a lot easier to learn these days, i'm sure you'll do great
15:04<Ryblade>once you embrace the shell for doing nearly everything, you'll know you're addicted
15:04<ronnie>yeah i know like basic command line stuff, began with it some years ago now
15:05<ronnie>but want to pick it up and master it a bit more :)
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15:05<Ryblade>my partner is going to a free linux basics class at the library, you might find similar resources in your community
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15:06<ronnie>yeah i learned it the hard way, i was an it student once, and i had like no expirence in linux and my intern people said like okay install a samba server command line and ask us everything you need to know
15:06<ronnie>learned so much about it
15:07<Ryblade>heh, sounds pretty hardcore, awesome
15:07<ronnie>yeah i loved it
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15:10<Ryblade>okay, just got a few more questions about this LVM and crypto stuff...
15:11<Ryblade>does the debian installer set up an LVM partition with LUKS volumes inside of it, or vice-versa? how is it all layered?
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15:12<Ryblade>i don't have a system to test this on, my machine is too slow to do VMs, sorry that i can't just check for myself as easily
15:12<petn-randall>Ryblade: The ordering is as follows:
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15:13<petn-randall>HDD | GPT | LUKS partition | LVM | one or many LVs for your system
15:13<Ryblade>thanks!
15:16<petn-randall>By default it uses up *all* the space on the LVM, you might want to leave a few GB free so you can make snapshots.
15:16<Ryblade>okay, i'm planning on having LVs across multiple drives in a single VG... which kernel hook is used for LUKS? encrypt, or sd-encrypt?
15:16<Ryblade>oh yeah, i definitely want snapshots :)
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15:18<Ryblade>i ask about the kernel hook because i've read that you can't span multiple disks across an LV with LUKS unless you're using sd-encrypt instead of encrypt.
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15:19<petn-randall>Ryblade: I haven't heard of that yet. You'll need to unlock all LUKS disks during boot time, though.
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15:21<Ryblade>yeah, the arch wiki says that. if it's a problem for those bleeding-edge guys, it's gotta still be an issue in debian, i'd imagine.
15:21<petn-randall>I wouldn't always agree with that.
15:22<petn-randall>It's not always an issue of how new software is in a distro. Someone needs to implement it in initramfs to support it, which is independent of software age.
15:22<Ryblade>ahh... i see.
15:24<Ryblade>oh, i assume that since you mentioned snapshots, that bug mentioned in the debian wiki is no longer something to worry about? bug 343671.
15:24<Ryblade>something from back in 2005 about snapshots not working.
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15:28<Ryblade>i think i'm not going to bother with spanning LUKS across multiple drives, typing the password twice sounds like a pain
15:29<Ryblade>also i just learned about lvmcache so i've got a much better idea for my SSDs now :)
15:29<Ryblade>god, all this lvm and luks stuff is very new to me, i've always done things the oldschool way
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15:30<petn-randall>No idea about the bug status, I've been using snapshots for quite a while now.
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15:31<Ryblade>good enough for me, then. hey, thanks a bunch for letting me pick your brain so much, petn-randall. that just about covers everything.
15:31*Ryblade hands petn-randall a beer
15:31<petn-randall>Ryblade: cheers!
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15:34<Ryblade>oh, one more quickie... you haven't heard or read anything about encryption impeding gaming performance, like with Steam and such, right?
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15:36<petn-randall>I doubt it, as block level encryption is done via RSA, which most modern CPUs support in hardware. And the CPU throughput is 10x faster than any SSD in that regard.
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15:36<petn-randall>So TL;DR: LUKS encryption doesn't slow done disk I/O performance.
15:36<sarnold>s/RSA/AES/
15:36<petn-randall>Oh, right, AES.
15:36<Ryblade>wow, that's pretty impressive, didn't know it was that tight
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16:32<tidux>When will buster-backports appear? A golang project I work on is starting to require Go 1.12 which is only in Testing/Sid right now.
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16:34<petn-randall>tidux: buster-backports already exists.
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16:36<tidux>petn-randall: I guess packages.debian.org's webui hasn't been updated then
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16:37<jmcnaught>tidux: not all packages get into backports, only some.
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16:38<tidux>new compilers and interpreters tend to, from what I've seen
16:38<tidux>particularly gcc
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16:39<jmcnaught>,v gcc
16:39<judd>Package: gcc on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; bullseye: 4:8.3.0-1; buster: 4:8.3.0-1; sid: 4:8.3.0-1; experimental: 4:9-20181127-1
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16:46<petn-randall>tidux: You seem to misunderstand how backports works.
16:46<petn-randall>tidux: Not every package in testing gets put into backports. That's a manual process, and there's a backports team that maintains it.
16:47<petn-randall>tidux: Also one requirement is that the version needs to exist in testing, so if it didn't get packaged and migrated there yet, there's no chance for that version to go into backports.
16:47<tidux>golang 1.12 does exist in Testing
16:47<danielsh_>Can I list all packages where the installed version is not available from oldstable/stable/testing/unstable?
16:47<azeem>tidux: so one requirement is satisfied
16:47<tidux>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/golang-1.12
16:48<azeem>still somebody has to actually do the buster backport, it's not automatic
16:49<danielsh_>So far my best guess is aptitude search '~i (~Olocal | !~ODebian)' but I'm not sure if that catches everything.
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16:55<alphalimaechox-ray>helow
16:56<danielsh_>hello
16:56<jmcnaught>danielsh_: you probably want to use ?narrow, something like '~S ~i !~ODebian'… but you're not using oldstable, stable, testing, and unstable all on one computer are you?
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16:57<danielsh_>jmcnaught, I'm on stretch, but I have some packages from stretch-backports, some equivs-dummy packages whose .deb's I didn't keep, and some packages in /srv/local-apt-repository
16:57<danielsh_>Let me try ?narrow.
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17:01<jmcnaught>(~Olocal | !~ODebian) would be redundant, wouldn't it?
17:02<danielsh_>?narrow() has more matches in the "Upgradable packages" section than I expect. I don't notice any missing matches in the other sections.
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17:03<danielsh_>~Olocal by itself is not enough, I think it matches the packages in local-apt-repository but not .deb's that I just installed directly with 'dpkg -i'
17:04<danielsh_>but yeah, !~ODebian by itself seems to suffice...
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17:15<danielsh_>jmcnaught, thank you
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17:21<nezZario>Ehh does anybody use reprepro here?
17:22<nezZario>I'm super confused by this tutorial on the wiki .. https://wiki.debian.org/PartialBackportMirrorWithPackageApproval
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17:23<nezZario>Why does it say .. Filterist: deinstall /path/to/his/file ... then the file is according to them, "packagename {tab} install" .. so they _do_ get installed even though it says deinstall?
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17:32<abdo>hi
17:32<nezZario>Ohhh nevermind
17:32<nezZario>I get it now. I had to re-read that man page line like 20 times but I got it.
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18:06<dboles_>!ask
18:06<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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19:22<Brokengstreamer>So I was doing an update and now I keep getting the error....
19:22<Brokengstreamer>Unpacking gstreamer1.0-plugins-good:amd64 (1.14.4-1) over (1.10.4-1) ... dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer1.0-plugins-good_1.14.4-1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-1.0/libgstlame.so', which is also in package gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly:amd64 1:1.10.4-dmo1 dpkg-deb: error: paste subprocess was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
19:23<Brokengstreamer>any thoughts on how this might be fixed?
19:25<sney>remove the plugins-ugly package and then try again
19:26<sney>and file a bug, conflicts like that should be handled with Replaces: or Breaks: in the package itself
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19:26<Brokengstreamer>sudo apt-get purge gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly ?
19:26<sney>it probably doesn't have anything to purge, but that would do the job
19:27<sarnold>dpkg: info gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
19:27<sney>oh I see it's from dmo.
19:27<dpkg>gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly: (GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set), section libs, is optional. Version: 1.16.0-2 (sid), Packaged size: 409 kB, Installed size: 1080 kB
19:27<Brokengstreamer>that give me errors about dependencies with a few other packages
19:27<sney>Brokengstreamer: pastebin the error. BUT you can probably just let it remove them, and then re-add stuff you need once the conflict is fixed.
19:28<sney>!dmo
19:28<dpkg>We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See http://deb-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm stretch>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>.
19:28<piper>08:50:25 AM-Thu Jul 25-[piper@x1] $ apt policy gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
19:28<piper>gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly:
19:28<piper> Installed: 1:1.16.0-dmo2
19:28<Brokengstreamer>should i disable my deb-multimedia repo and run update?
19:28<piper>500 http://10.10.10.3:3142/www.deb-multimedia.org unstable/main amd64 Packages
19:29<sney>piper: ?
19:29<piper>i just upgraded 2 machines with dmo, i had no problem YMMV
19:29<sney>Brokengstreamer: that won't remove the packages, I'll have the bot send you some instructions
19:29<piper>because i had errors in debian
19:29<sney>!tell Brokengstreamer about dmm remove
19:29<Brokengstreamer>ty sney
19:30<sney>piper: they are officially unsupported because they can break things, as the factoid says above. feel free to use whatever you want but it's better not to endorse iffy repos in a support channel
19:31<piper>thats your opinion, since 2002 it never broke once for me, i have a whole network that relies heavy on mythtv
19:31<piper>sney: it's all politics
19:33<piper>and Christian Marillat is a debian developer i trust https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=marillat%40debian.org
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19:34<sney>ah yes, the "Works for me" argument. welp
19:34<Brokengstreamer>lol
19:34<sney>I'm sure if Marillat thought all that stuff was good enough to be in main, it would be. there is surely some nuance there.
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19:34<piper>no, proven, i have to supply people here on a network, seems people don't like to hear good tech
19:35<piper>https://bits.debian.org/2013/06/remove-debian-multimedia.html i remember this, so many people use Christian Marillat repo they had to put out a warning
19:36<piper>i don't buy the debian fud with dmo sorry, it';s my machine
19:36<piper>your not going to go all bill gates with me
19:36<sney>all I'm hearing is you personally volunteering to help anyone who has a dmo problem, since it's not endorsed here
19:36<sney>have fun with that I suppose. *shrug*
19:37<Ryblade>if "it's my machine" is your attitude run then this might be of use to you, have fun: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
19:37<piper>take a look around since the upgrades many people have problems, people with dmo arent, whats the gig with that
19:37<Ryblade>s/run//
19:38<piper>Ryblade: i build my own iso's, built on debian sid (siduction)
19:38<sney>lmao there are always problems right around a major version release. that's irrelevant and you know it.
19:38<piper>Ryblade my attitude is why linux began to begin with
19:39<Brokengstreamer>after doing that dpkg --remove --force-depends on plugins-ugly ... apt seems to be upgrading again so thanks :D <3 currently i'm on a live CD with my system mounted with chroot and all that --bind stuff so it'll be nice to get back into my install without it being all broken!
19:39<piper>Ryblade: join ballmer with the cancer, young punks that don't rember the 90's in linux really hurts debian
19:39<sney>Brokengstreamer: right on! feel free to come back if anything else is broken and don't mind the peanut gallery.
19:39<Brokengstreamer>Thanks sney!!!! you know your linux <3
19:40<Ryblade>cool story bro
19:40<Ryblade>you sound mad
19:40<piper>actually not mad, feel sorry for people
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19:41<Ryblade>nah, you mad
19:41<piper>MS dictates people, we got away from it, now, here it starts all over again
19:41<Ryblade>you forgot the dollar sign in place of the S
19:41<piper>Ryblade: with 13 grandchildren, i don't get mad easy
19:42<piper>have a nice day, don't forget to smile
19:42<piper>trolls
19:42<Ryblade>:)
19:42<sney>http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=01e8886baf4c665ea0244bfca7eab01f
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19:42<piper>:P
19:43<Brokengstreamer>having repositories that are not officially suppored i don't think is the same as M$, just if dmm is broken you gotta talk to dmm people, i get that, would i come here asking you guys about how to fix my rhel install? wouldn't make sense, people here are probably smart enough to help me, but i would probably get the best support from redhat people :P
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19:44<Brokengstreamer>btw... Debian > RH
19:44<piper>Brokengstreamer: wasent talking repositories, was talking attitude, our way or no way, that is not what linus started
19:44<piper>that is gates & company
19:44<Brokengstreamer>but i thought linus was known for his my way or STFU attitued? :P
19:44<Ryblade>linus started a task scheduler originally
19:45<piper>Brokengstreamer: that is kernel to you safe
19:45<TommyXR>Hey guys, if I install let's say OpenGL 32 and 64 bits on my system (Testing), will 64-bits apps use the 64 bits libraries by default?
19:46<piper>Brokengstreamer: i am all for the shut the fuck up attidude, it is actually my constitional right to say the fuck word without the fear of going to jail
19:46<nezZario>Does anyone know if it's possible to change where apt, .. libapt, in particular.. would look for the package cache files at?
19:46<piper>drop it people need help
19:46<Brokengstreamer>^
19:47<Brokengstreamer><3
19:47<Ryblade>linus still has rules when it comes to the kernel, such as don't ever let userspace break kernelspace, and don't break things if you can help it
19:47<Ryblade>it's not complete anarchy
19:47<piper>Ryblade: drop it
19:47<Ryblade>similarly, debian has a way to do things and a way not to do things
19:47<nezZario>basically I am trying to use, eg. apt-cache rdepends but not on my system's list of packages but an apt repo mirror
19:48<nezZario>I've been trying basically all day to build a simple apt mirror and man it's a pita
19:48<Ryblade>we have a constitutional right to not help you if you aren't going to do things correctly
19:48<piper>nezZario: are you using apt-cacher-ng ?
19:48<nezZario>well I don't want a totally 1:1 cache
19:48<nezZario>i am trying to make some frankendebbies
19:48<TommyXR>"Hey guys, if I install let's say OpenGL 32 and 64 bits on my system (Testing), will 64-bits apps use the 64 bits libraries by default?"
19:49<TommyXR>I need to install a 32 bits library but I don't want to break anything
19:49<TommyXR>Adding a 2nd architecture kind of scares me haha
19:49<piper>nezZario: i can direct you about 15 forums for that, you just cant do that here on debian
19:49<nezZario>well regardless
19:50<piper>well regardless, i am not getting booted
19:50<nezZario>all i'm trying to do is run rdepends on a list of pkgs using a particular list of pkgs
19:51<piper>Ryblade: since 1997 i never once asked for help on any debian channel
19:51<piper>i don't need your help
19:51<nezZario>or, .. is there a shell tool that will parse the "package (>= version), package (>= 2:1.6.0)" dependency statements?
19:51<nezZario>I can even get them with grep-dctrl but idk how to reliably parse that ^
19:52<Vergo>nezZario: libapt-pkg-perl?
19:52<Ryblade>oh, you need help, alright. just not mine. anyway, good luck changing everyone's mind and stuff. i'm gonna get baked again.
19:52<nezZario>^ .. just what i asked .. i don't see a way to change it from using eg. /var/lib/apt/lists/
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19:52<piper>Brokengstreamer: to make sure you have all of dmo gone you may do
19:52<piper>aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?maintainer(Christian Marillat))' --disable-columns -F%p
19:53<nezZario>I guess I could chroot it and make it think my apt sources are in /var/lib/apt/lists/
19:53<nezZario>beh, why not... i've already hacked the heck out of everything else
19:55<Brokengstreamer>thanks piper i'll check that out once it's done doing this massive upgrade :P
19:55<piper>yeah , theres more to it than what you were messaged
19:57<Brokengstreamer>currently 63% at Get: 1587
19:58<Brokengstreamer>i've been running this system for years now and have probably too many packages installed XD but i like my system setup and don't want to do a fresh install
19:58<piper>dpkg -l | awk '/^.i/ {print $2}' | xargs apt-cache policy | awk '/^[a-z0-9.-]+:/ {pkg=$1}; /\*\*\*/ {OFS="\t"; ver=$2; getline; print pkg,ver,$2,$3}',
19:58<dpkg>No packages found matching | awk '/^.i/ {print $2}' | xargs apt-cache policy | awk '/^[a-z0-9.-]+:/ {pkg=$1}; /\*\*\*/ {OFS="\t"; ver=$2; getline; print pkg,ver,$2,$3}',
19:59<piper>oh shit wrong window
19:59<piper>yakuake kinda got me there
20:00<piper>ah so that can be adjusted
20:01<dmm>I vote for calling deb-multimedia something other than dmm, lol
20:01<Brokengstreamer>lol
20:02<piper>dmm: , your years late, look at the mailings lists and see how many people actually use it and bitched :)
20:04<piper>personall i never install debian without it, thats my preference, and i use sid
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20:09<nezZario>I was actually really confused going thru the sections in the pkgs
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20:10<nezZario>Like,.. Why is there a whole section for R?
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20:12<nezZario>What is that? A pending upgrade list in like csv?
20:12<Vergo>most likely makes finding R related things a lot easier since 'r' along isn't a too good search 'word'
20:12<nezZario>Hmm I guess so that makes sense.
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21:15<TommyXR>Hey guys, if I install let's say OpenGL 32 and 64 bits on my system (Testing), will 64-bits apps use the 64 bits libraries by default?
21:17<sarnold>64 bit processes aren't able to use 32 bit libraries
21:18<TommyXR>Oh good then. I was scared to add a second architecture
21:20<sarnold>the usual problems I see when folks have two architectures installed at once is the packages get out of sync -- the 32 bit and the 64 bit versions of packages will often (at least on ubuntu, I assume it's true on debian too) co-own files like /usr/share/doc/packagename/README etc
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21:21<sarnold>it's fine for two packages to own a single file but the file must be *identical*, which is hard when eg the changelog is owned between both 64 bit and 32 bit versions..
21:21<sarnold>so if the two ever get out of sync, dpkg will flail, and apt will be unhappy, leaving you with a mess
21:21<sarnold>I'll be honest I don't know *how* they get out of sync, but it happens :)
21:22<TommyXR>I'll take care then
21:22<TommyXR>my system is for coding primarily
21:22<TommyXR>but I wanted to try some steam games
21:22<TommyXR>but then steam = 32 bits :c
21:22<sarnold>it'll probably be fine; it's not like I see these errors often. but I do see them
21:24<TommyXR>Alright thanks!
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22:04<piper>:) oh yeah, I did the samething, when I left vna (visiting nurses association) I joined acna (american cannabis nurses association) https://cannabisnurses.org/national-state-and-nursing-policies, mention my name and you will get a 25% discount on that, i wish it was more, but better than nothing, and now I myself am disabled, it worked out really well, so do it now while your young, you never know if/when something happens to you that is out of your
22:04<piper>control, good luck, it does take several months for it to kick in so the sooner the better, holidays are coming up
22:05<piper>damn shit wrong channel, can't eat and post at the same time
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22:11<tejr>#busted
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22:13<laptop>hi
22:15<sarnold>wb laptop
22:15<laptop>on debian stretch I try to view videos on crackle.com and the computer is slow and stuttering, I have a amd 64 bit 1.7 ghz laptop with 2 gb ram and nvidia 7150/630m gpu and despite whether I use firefox or chrome the video always has to buffer on my i3 first gen laptop with same ram and intel graphics card it does have any problems
22:15<laptop>is my computer to slow
22:19<piper>tejr it's legal here
22:19<tejr>piper: Only joking :)
22:19<piper>laptop: yes, 2gb of ram that is probably being shared with your video
22:20<piper>tejr: yeah, i feel bad posting what i did, (on debian) but, it was my proffesion for awhile
22:23<piper>ok, back to the other channel ;)
22:23<sarnold>laptop: you could try youtube-dl or mpv or mplayer or similar, without the browser running
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22:26<piper>you need the browser running for crackle.com unless you have the app in android
22:27<sarnold>oh :(
22:27<nezZario>Is there any tools out there to generate very nice visual diff's between apt repositories (or, just lists of pkgs for that matter)? ... I know reprepro can generate some sort of image-graph thing, ... But I am looking for something more like a html page or something showing the diffs / versions of some sort
22:27<piper>mplayer, i doubt will run on 2gbs
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22:27<nezZario>I could probably write one myself but I am just curious
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22:28<sarnold>nezZario: I've seen these reports but don't know where the tool that generates them lives http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/cloud-archive/
22:28<piper>aptitude search '?narrow(~i~skde,!~M)' <- this filters extra on 'section=kde' something like that might help
22:29<piper>ah, yupo misread
22:29<nezZario>Oh that's perfect @sarnold .. Wonder if I can find it in their git repos somewhere.
22:29<nezZario>Thanks
22:29<sarnold>nezZario: they've been around for ever, check bzr too :D
22:32<laptop>true I need the browser running
22:32<laptop>is it because my laptop is slow
22:32<laptop>the cpu is at 100% before the memory is even at 50%
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22:33<futune>laptop, what desktop environment are you using?
22:33<futune>it makes a big difference
22:33<laptop>I am using icewm
22:34<futune>that should be pretty light
22:34<futune>how many tabs? just 1 in the browser?
22:34<futune>if you try "free -h", how much under "available"?
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22:36<piper>crackle.com is hard to run on a 1-2gig android tablet, he has 2 gigs of ram that will be shared with the video card, thats going to be tough to run under any de, you also need many addblockers running also
22:37<futune>I'm not familiar with crackle.com, is there something special about it?
22:37<piper>google it
22:39<piper>it will probably be running some kind of bitcoin bullshit, so the browser should have a adblocker and no coin
22:40<laptop>no one tab open still cannot run
22:40<futune>so it's a netflix competitor, not youtube competitor?
22:40<sarnold>laptop: I realize this is probably the wrong channel to suggest a proprietary tool, but I bet a $35 chromecast hooked up to a tv or monitor could do crackle without a sweat
22:41<piper>^^^^
22:41<laptop>I tried firefox and chrome and chromium one tab, no other processors, youtube runs but not crackle, I think because the cpu cannot handle the streaming power involved and the decoding is to much for the laptop. Yes a chromecast but the computer is probably too slow to cast it, I think this is a cpu problem
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22:44<laptop>if someone can try it on a low powered machine like mine and let me know if I am wrong that would be great
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22:45<futune>have you tried viewing the content at a lower resolution/quality?
22:45<laptop>no option
22:45<sarnold>hrm, maybe chromecast isn't a great solution, the reviews on the android app store include "No longer compatible with chromecast, so it is now totally useless"
22:46<piper>i don't have anything below 8gbs of ram, amd dual core
22:46<laptop>it is html5 video that is the problem
22:46<laptop>flash video no problem
22:46<futune>youtube (and all other tube sites) also use html5...
22:47<laptop>also drm media
22:47<futune>i think the drm is the problem, yes
22:47<futune>or, well, the difference from youtube
22:47<laptop>browser can run drm but really slow on my computer
22:48<laptop>must be a decoding problem that is software and not hardware driven
22:48<futune>I don't see how the last part follows
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22:53<piper>https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/crackle.com i personally wouldn't use it but, it's your machine
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23:22<Brokenkernel>Hello again, so my system is giving me a kernel panic when I try and boot 4.19 but I can boot into the old kernel 4.9.... "kernel panic not syncing vfs unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0 0)" how do i fix my grub? :P
23:23<sarnold>I'm headed out, and only have vague ideas.. but I think I've seen that before when I forgot to install a package with additional kernel modules
23:23<sarnold>make sure you've got all the kernel modules you need
23:23<sarnold>and rebuild the initramfs for that kernel, double-check the ones you need are in there or not, if that didn't just magically fix it
23:23<sarnold>have fun
23:24<Brokenkernel>lol thanks :P
23:24<sarnold>:D
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23:27<petn-randall>Brokenkernel: That usually happens when you're missing the kernel modules needed to access your root filesystem. By default initramfs is generated to include all block storage drivers, so maybe you managed to remove it somehow.
23:28<petn-randall>Or you put the drive into another machine, and had "MODULES=dep" set in /etc/initramfs/initramfs.conf.
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23:29<Brokenkernel>well i had to do an upgrade from a live cd, did the whole mount --bind stuff and chrooted and updated my system
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23:30<petn-randall>Brokenkernel: Why did you upgrade from a live system?
23:31<Brokenkernel>oh because it broke before and wouldn't boot anything, was just giving me a black screen, had a problem with gstreamer from deb multimedia.... got my system back, but having this problem with the kernel now :P
23:31<petn-randall>!dmo
23:31<dpkg>We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See http://deb-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm stretch>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>.
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23:32<Brokenkernel>yeah i know :P i disabled that repo
23:32<petn-randall>Brokenkernel: You might want to chroot into the system again, and run "update-initramfs -k all" after fixing the file I mentioned above. You want "MODULES=most".
23:33<petn-randall>It also helps if you run "update-grub", and check that nothing fails.
23:33<Brokenkernel>can i do that from the system running or do i need to go back into a live cd and update it?
23:34<Brokenkernel>update-grub didn't throw any errors, it sees 4.19 as well
23:34<petn-randall>If you got it booted, you can run it there, yes.
23:36<Brokenkernel>gonna see if this work
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 26 00:00:24 2019