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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-30

---Logopened Tue Jul 30 00:00:30 2019
00:05-!-dboehmer_ [~quassel@pD9EA7CC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:05-!-dboehmer_ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:12-!-preview___ is "preview" on #debian
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00:17-!-ramfs_stretchS is "ramfs_stretchS" on #debian
00:17<ramfs_stretchS>hey, i just learned about pm-utils, does this work on debian too to run scripts on wake from sleep? some things fail after waking from sleep
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00:22<nahualt>hola
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00:25-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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00:30-!-schizo is "me without a mic is like a beat without a snare" on #tor-project #tor-dev #oftc #moocows #linux #debian
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00:34<annadane>nahualt, espagnol? #debian-es
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00:37-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:42-!-twb is "Trent W. Buck" on #debian #debian-au
00:42<twb>What do I have to install to make "wireshark -platform webgl:port=8085" work?
00:42<twb>(So that I can run wireshark inside a web browser)
00:43-!-nahualt [~nahualt@190-198-149-203.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:43<twb>I'm looking at https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/webgl.html but I can't translate that into apt packages
00:49-!-_pa [~pa@141-136-143-204.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #debian
00:49-!-_pa is "_pa" on #qemu #Corsair #linux #moocows #debian
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00:58<jm_>twb: hmm are you sure that's available in 5.11?
00:58<twb>I am not
00:58<twb>apt-file didn't turn up anything either
01:00<jm_>https://wiki.qt.io/New_Features_in_Qt_5.11 says Technology Preview Modules Qt WebGL Streaming Plugin, same page for 5.12 says New Modules Qt WebGL Streaming Plugin fully supported
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01:01<jm_>I somehow concluded that stuff should live in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/platforms, but using packages.debian.org to search for that path does not work for me
01:03<jm_>looks like one can't search for directories on that page
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01:04-!-caraka is "rick,,," on #debian #salsaci
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01:22-!-Gromit is "Jan-Hendrik Palic" on #debian
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01:25-!-qwer is "alfa omega" on #debian
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01:30-!-kts is "kts" on #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
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01:32-!-dust is "dust" on #debian-games #debian #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt
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01:33-!-andrea15 is "andrea" on #openstack #lvm #virt #debian
01:33-!-Ganneff is "Joerg Jaspert" on #oftc-staff #debian-dak #debian-mia #spi #help #debconf-hamburg #meetbot #debconf-nyc #debian-meeting @#oftc #debian #debian-forums #lugfd #german #nsb2 #debian-forums-teams #debconf15-germany #debian-damdpl #debconf-germany
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02:09-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian-next #debian
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02:24-!-iwamatsu_ is "Nobuhiro Iwamatsu" on #debian
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02:53<nkc>hello can someone help me know more hacking plz
02:54<twb>nkc: try Security Engineering by Ross Anderson
02:54<twb>nkc: also anything by Bruce Schneier, also Tanenbaum's circus book is a good introduction to related concepts
02:55<nkc>right now am using parrot os, which programs are best for newbies??
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02:56-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on #debian #debian-es #debian-ve
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03:09-!-SkarmoutsosV is "Vangelis Skarmoutsos" on #debian-i18n #debian-next #debian
03:11<nkc>hello help plz
03:13<twb>nkc: "Parrot OS" appears to be a GNU/Linux distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux
03:14<twb>!based on
03:14<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
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03:15<nkc>thanks for that
03:17-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@2a01:cb19:85b4:db00:224:8cff:fe4f:fe7d] has joined #debian
03:17-!-tetrapovicc is "trifyl" on #debian
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03:20<twb>If you want to use Debian we can help you install it :-)
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03:21<nkc>yes do plz
03:25-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@2a01:cb19:85b4:db00:224:8cff:fe4f:fe7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:26<twb>I will in a bit once I'm off this meeting
03:27-!-Heiki is "Heikki Piirainen" on #debian-next #debian-meeting #openttd
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03:29-!-nicolasG is "Nicolas Guilbert" on #debian-lego #debian
03:33<nkc>oky i will be for again 2hrs back
03:33<nkc>off
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03:35-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on #debian #debian-es #debian-ve
03:40<twb>nkc: OK so you have a personal computer you can install Debian on?
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03:59-!-Talkless is "Vincas" on #debian-next #debian
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04:36-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
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04:39<kosarials1>I need help to install wine
04:40-!-Roedy- is now known as Roedy
04:40<Vergo>!ask
04:40<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
04:40<EmleyMoor>kosarials1, what's your problem with it?
04:41<kosarials1>i got some errors in the terminal
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04:43<Vergo>!errors
04:43<dpkg>If you don't tell us the exact error messages you get, we can't tell you what's wrong, and it's also useful to know exactly what command you're typing. Please look for the *first* error that occurs, as this is often the cause of later errors -- ask me about <localized errors> too. Please don't paste in the channel, use a pastebin instead; ask me about <pastebin>.
04:43<kosarials1>E: Failed to fetch https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/dists/solydxk-9/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found
04:43<kosarials1>E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
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04:45<Vergo>sounds like an issue with a 3rd party repository
04:46<kosarials1>https://pastebin.com/NMfDEbaz for the full list
04:47<EmleyMoor>kosarials1, any reason why you're trying to install it from there?
04:47<Vergo>https://www.winehq.org/irc may provide better help for their own repository
04:48<kosarials1>I found in the web a tutorial and I like to install it from Terminal
04:49<EmleyMoor>You are not installing it from "Terminal", you are installing it from dl.winehq.org. That is a third party repository. I mean why are you not installing it from a Debian mirror?
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04:50<kosarials1>i dont have mind to install all the extra packadges and I dont find there the right
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04:51<EmleyMoor>kosarials1, you won't have to - do you want to proceed "the Debian way" or "the winehq way"?
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04:52<kosarials1>i dont understand what u mean. I ask now in discord. there i have a good contact
04:54<EmleyMoor>"discord"? What I am saying is, there's more than one place to install wine from. If you re installing it from winehq, their IRC channel may well help you
04:55<kosarials1>ok
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05:31<rant> there is little reason to install wine from upstream unless you're a developer, we have tools that manage and install various wine versions automatically
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05:31<rant>,i playonlinux
05:31<judd>Package playonlinux (contrib/otherosfs, optional) in buster/amd64: front-end for Wine. Version: 4.3.4-1; Size: 933.6k; Installed: 2920k; Homepage: https://www.playonlinux.com/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/playonlinux
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06:25<redzs>helló vannak itt magyarok?
06:26<redzs>egy debian 9.9 hez értő rendszergazdát keresek
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06:48<towo^work>redzs, try it in english, maybe you get help
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06:50<venom>hi
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07:13<dubidub>In Buster, which packages provide the virtual package mixmaster? How can I find that out for myself?
07:14<dubidub>I did 'apt show mixmaster' and it said 'State: not a real package (virtual)'.
07:14<dubidub>I've read https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkg_basics.en.html#s-virtual
07:16<dubidub>for mutt, apt suggested installing mixmaster
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07:18<towo^work>dubidub, there is no virtual packahe mixmaster in debian
07:18<towo^work>*package
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07:25<thsnr>,v mixmaster
07:25<judd>Package: mixmaster on amd64 -- jessie: 3.0.0-7; stretch: 3.0.0-8.1
07:25<thsnr>dubidub: seems that mixmaster was not migrated from stretch to buster. did you actually want that package or are only looking for it because of the mutt suggests?
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07:38<dubidub>I'm just wondering what it was.
07:39<dubidub>And how I can find that out for other virtual packages. What will satisfy mail-transport-agent, for instance?
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07:41<dubidub>s/for instance/for example/
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08:08<grove>!tell redzs about hu
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08:40<rant>dubidub: aptitude search "?provides (mail-transport-agent)"
08:40<rant>dubidub: aptitude has more advanced search capabilities..
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09:15<aparcar[m]>hello, I'm running debian 10 on a latop and facing suspend/hibernate issue. The display stays black after waking up. Disabling the intel driver 915 causes resolution errors in xfce but fixes suspend. Is there some solution in between to keep xfce4 resolution correct and allow suspend?
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09:32<GyrosGeier>aparcar[m], that is with kernel mode setting?
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09:33<GyrosGeier>I dimly remember that the kernel synthesizes a VT switch event before and after suspend so X knows about it
09:33<GyrosGeier>but with kernel mode setting the VT switch event is a no-op
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09:50<aparcar[m]>GyrosGeier: hey, what does no-op means?
09:50<aparcar[m]>GyrosGeier: and you have an idea for a work around? If I manually switch to a tty and back to the "unlock screen", it suddenly works
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09:56<Tanya>aegisub in a chroot prints this message: Failed to load module "atk-bridge"
09:56<Tanya>libatk-bridge is present
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10:09<Tanya>Found out libatk-adaptor was missing
10:09<GyrosGeier>aparcar[m], normally X sits on top of a virtual console, usually the first free one
10:09<GyrosGeier>vt7 mostly
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10:09<GyrosGeier>so you can switch with Ctrl-Alt-F1 to a text console, and with Ctrl-Alt-F7 to X
10:10<GyrosGeier>X is told about the switch so it knows when to leave the graphics card alone
10:10<aparcar[m]>any idea how to fix that in a more elegant way than switching back and forth?
10:10<GyrosGeier>and the suspend code uses that and pretends to switch away from X
10:11<GyrosGeier>the problem is that with kernel modesetting that mechanism has changed a bit
10:11<GyrosGeier>because now the graphics mode setup is part of the VT switch
10:12<aparcar[m]>GyrosGeier: what can I do :)?
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10:13<GyrosGeier>hm
10:14<GyrosGeier>I'd ask on #intel-gfx on freenode if they know anything
10:14<GyrosGeier>other than that, probably file a bug
10:15<aparcar[m]>GyrosGeier: thanks, will do that
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11:47<romo>Hey guys. How can I check a rsync log for read errors/corrupted files? I'm migrating from a failing drive onto a new one and used this command https://paste.debian.net/hidden/8bbdd2dd/
11:47<romo>Termianl output appeared to be ordinary and rsync did not halt or throw any unusual prompts or messages (that I've seen).
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11:51<rainbowolf>hello
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12:03<grove>romo: I've never used that option, but have you checked the logfile you specified as an option to rsync?
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12:12<romo>grove: I'm afraid I don't understand your question. My problem being: I'd like to make sure my files a read without incident. But I don't know how rsync would log read errors, so I don't know what string I should search the logfile for...
12:14<Vergo>romo: "rsync error: " and "rsync warning: " are the strings you'd want to look for + the return code of the command itself
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12:24<romo>Vergo: thank you. the return is mostly cut by the buffer but the final lines seem very standard (just 'sent', 'received', 'total size' & 'speedup') without anything special. the log doesn't include either 'rsync error' nor 'rsync warnging'. so this should be time to start dancing then.
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12:36<dubidub>rant: thanks :)
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14:33<pentest>helllo
14:33<pentest>Whos there
14:34<annadane>pentest, lots of people
14:34<dboles>!ask
14:34<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
14:34<annadane>unfortunately, if you're on kali/parrot, we can't help you
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14:36*sarnold adds "mindreader" to annadane's business card
14:36<dboles>!next
14:36<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
14:37<leoncwb>.\debconf19
14:37<tarzeau>!ls
14:37<dpkg>CONFIG.SYS AUTOEXEC.BAT TEMP WINDOWS My Documents PROGRA~1
14:37<tarzeau>i can't believe it's still there my favourite ls output from 10+ years ago
14:38-!-leoncwb [~leonarddo@2804:7f4:3c80:9206:cce0:5b20:9811:a0f4] has quit []
14:38<dboles>haha
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15:10<rant>dubidub: unfortunately that package you asked about that was recommended by mutt doesn't seem to exist.. I'd email the maintainer of mutt and ask them wtf
15:11<rant>nothing provides that virtual package
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15:51<sqrt{not}>mixmaster is a remailer, packaged in jessie and stretch, but not in buster. mail-transport-agent is a virtual package satisfied by many different actual packages
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16:01<r3p405t>hi
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16:30<rant>tarzeau: thats a little ridiculous.. if its going to truncate to 8 chars for PROGRA~1 then why is it listing "My Documents"?!
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17:07<Vergo>rant: it may even be listing "My" and "Documents" :)
17:09<rant>Vergo: no, there are two behaviors in microsoft's history it'd either quote it "My Documents" or trucate it, in which case like all the other files it'd have shown it in all caps because their system wasn't case sensitive
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17:25<Debianoob>Hey guys, I have a simple problem and somehow googling brings up nothing
17:25<Debianoob>I just installed Debian 9, when booting I have to manually open the network interfaces and turn "on" my wired ethernet
17:25<Debianoob>Is there a way to have it "on" on startup?
17:26<Debianoob>To be clear, I see "Intel Ethernet Off", and I have to click on "Connect"
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17:29<Vergo>maybe it could make more sense to install Debian 10 instead of 9 if that's a new install
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17:30-!-SkarmoutsosV is "Vangelis Skarmoutsos" on #debian-i18n #debian-next #debian
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17:35<dvs>agreed
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18:51<ton>Does debian kernel load speck and family by default?
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19:41<dima>привет
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19:46<mendelmunkis>xrestop lists several unknown processes consuming clients. is there any why to figure which processes these are?
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19:50<sarnold>ps auxw is a good start; you could grep by pid number
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19:51<mendelmunkis>the problem is any client which im not sure what it is has a ? in the pid column.
19:53<sarnold>try as root?
19:54<mendelmunkis>same result.
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19:58<sarnold>ahh I see, ? from xrestop, not from ps. :) d'oh
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20:02<ton>Does debian kernel load speck or nsa modules and family by default?
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20:23<Sor>not sure if this is the correct spot but mc file associations have the wrong path a symlink fixed it just letting you know .... also qjackctl only works as root i had to compile my own .. cheers
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21:12<twb>OK so rpc.nfsd manpage says nprocs is 1 by default, but the actual source code seems to default to 8. Am I reading the source wrong?
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21:13<twb>https://sources.debian.org/src/nfs-utils/1:1.3.4-2.5/utils/nfsd/nfsd.c/#L32
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21:28<sarnold>twb: https://sources.debian.org/src/nfs-utils/1:1.3.4-2.5/utils/nfsd/nfsd.c/#L216 -- looks like both 8 and 1 are possibilities, if atoi returns a negative number for the number on the command line..
21:28<twb>OK I worked it out
21:28<twb>"By default, just one thread is started." sounds like "nproc defaults to 1", but it's not actually saing that
21:29<twb>It's saying the same thing as the later sentence --- that nproc is the upper limit, but threads start and stop as-needed
21:29<sarnold>really? interesting; TIL :)
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21:31<lva>Hello, I'm trying out irssi, is there enybody out there?
21:31<sarnold>lva: pong
21:31<lva>*anybody
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21:32<annadane>ping
21:32<sarnold>annadane: YOU CAN TIME TRAVEL??
21:33<annadane>i would reply with something witty but i can't think of anything
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21:34<sarnold>don't worry I'm sure you will have thunk of something in ten minutes ago
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21:39<rwp>twb, When I install a stock Debian system with nfs-kernel-server I get 8 nfsd processes running by default. This is a tunable parameter.
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21:40<rwp>twb, See RPCNFSDCOUNT=8 in /etc/default/nfs-kernel-server
21:40-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
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21:42<sqrt{not}>user ton is gone now, but the speck crypto was removed from kernel source almost a year ago: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1808.0/05238.html
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21:51<laptop>hi I have debian 9 stretch and want to swtich to testing will this make my debian 9 buster?
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21:51<laptop>anyway to get rolling release
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21:52<abrotman>laptop: what .. no
21:53<fjhc>bullseye is a new buster, but unstable is always sid
21:53<abrotman>!rolling
21:53<dpkg>Testing is not a rolling release in the strict sense of the word. It is a test platform, currently codenamed <buster>. It is part of the Debian development process and is gradually being built into the next <stable>. Please go to #debian-next on irc.debian.org for support. See <moving target>.
21:53<abrotman>well ,that needs to be updated ..
21:53<twb>aaargh deja vu
21:53<twb>not only do I remember writing this bug report 6 months ago; I remember *having deja vu* of it
21:54<sarnold>twb: uhoh
21:54*twb looks harder for a previous bug by twb
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21:54<twb>Can't see one in "bts show src:nfs-utils archive=both"
21:54-!-laptop [~laptop@c-73-25-76-62.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit []
21:55<twb>I guess after my last trip to the past, I altered history again...
21:56<sqrt{not}>laptop: testing will be debian 11 eventually. you should only upgrade to debian 10 (buster/stable) from debian 9, not directly to testing/bullseye
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22:00<sqrt{not}>laptop: you will be much happier with debian 10 (stable/buster) or even debian 9 (oldstable/stretch) than with testing, which may be buggy sometimes, as new code is *tested* in *testing*
22:01<sqrt{not}>laptop: you will be much happier with debian 10 (stable/buster) or even debian 9 (oldstable/stretch) than with testing, which may be buggy sometimes, as new code is *tested* in *testing*
22:02<nezZario>Got a bit of a weird question
22:03<nezZario>Why is Debian seemingly against having multiple versions of a pkg in stable/main?
22:03<nezZario>For ex,... Older version of Java that would install to a secondary location
22:03<twb>nezZario: why do you want that?
22:04<abrotman>those things do exist in some cases
22:04<nezZario>Is there some policy I am unaware of?
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22:04<twb>sarnold: does my NFS manpage prose sound good? http://ix.io/1Q6P
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22:05<nezZario>Hm K. twb: been wondering because freeipa is currently missing from stable due to lack of older versions of some packages. Tried for a bit to compile it myself anyway but ended up with a mess.
22:05<nezZario>The freeipa-server is. Client is there
22:05<sarnold>twb: yes, that looks pretty good to me. note that I haven't read the *kernel* sources for nfs in ages..
22:05<twb>nezZario: well you can look up why freeipa isn't in stable
22:05<twb>sarnold: cool, thanks
22:06<nezZario>Where?.. I actually asked this the other day... I didn't see any 'excuse' on the one page
22:07<nezZario>I asked around and eventually was told by freeipa people that it was due to missing deps of old stuff.
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22:08<nezZario>Regardless, this has been a friggin nightmare. When I am done figuring this mess out I am heavily considering writing something like "authconfig" rhel has. I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, I think redhat intentionally obscures documentation regarding sssd and internals of freeipa for them support bucks :)
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22:11<twb>nezZario: it's a pain to find
22:11<nezZario>Not only that but serious overload... pam can authenticate against kerberos, ldap,... , or if can authenticate against against sssd which uses sasl and gssapi to authenticate against kerberos. which can use a ldap backend itself.
22:11<twb>https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeipa doesn't say
22:13<twb>nezZario: it looks to me like freeipa was *never* in testing until 2019-02-11. That was before buster shipped, so it should be in buster now...
22:13<twb>nezZario: and, it is
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22:13<nezZario>Well again, there is a freeipa package but it does not include the server components
22:13<twb>nezZario: oh sorry, you're talking about freeipa-server -- I didn't realize
22:13<nezZario>It did in expiramental briefly
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22:13<twb>What is the freeipa-server package called?
22:14<nezZario>Yeah it depends on Java 8 and something else I can't remember
22:14<nezZario>Source package is freeipa, there is a switch in the debian/rules to build server or not
22:14<twb>nezZario: ahhhh, OK
22:14<twb>nezZario: that is harder to find out, we will have to look at debian/changelog
22:15<nezZario>It's confusing too as the way the repo is setup seems way different than most. I don't know the real specs, but it seems way diff
22:16<nezZario>Had to manually cat files together to get a control file for a script to regenerate the control file to build :)
22:16<nezZario>Sorry I don't mean to ramble. Just been a wild ride.
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22:27<nezZario>Speaking,... In the context of nsswitch, what is nis and nisplus?
22:28<nezZario>Network information services? Can't find anything else about it.
22:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 574] by debhelper
22:30<sarnold>it's ancient
22:31<sarnold>they've both been basically replaced by ldap
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22:35<twb>nezZario: NEVER EVER EVER use nis or nis+
22:36<sarnold>heh
22:36<twb>As sarnold says, LDAP replaced them. LDAP has security. NIS has none.
22:36<nezZario>Ahh okay. That makes sense. I just wanted to know what it was.
22:36<sarnold>I have toadmit I thought about giving them a try some day..
22:36<nezZario>So this is truly insane...
22:37<sarnold>(I've wanted to give kerberos a shot, and that means centralized ids, and ldap looks annoying, so I've put it all off for twenty years..)
22:37<twb>sarnold: you realize krb is normally used *with* LDAP
22:37<sarnold>twb: yeah
22:37<twb>sarnold: in theory "just use samba" because that fully integrates krb+ldap+dns, and can talk to non-Debian clients.
22:38<twb>sarnold: but I tried that recently, and even as a fluent LDAP RFC2307 speaker, the amount of Microsoft weirdness is overwhelming
22:38<twb>But doing your own krb with MIT/heimdal + slapd is also at least mildly annoying.
22:39<nezZario>nsswitch can use ldap, allowing you to use pam_unix to use ldap for authentication.... or you can use pam_ldap directly, or you can use pam_krb5. with krb5 you can use files or ldap the too. or you can use pam_sssd which, itself, can use krb5 (which could be using ldap or files), ldap, or freeipa. FreeIPA cna also use ldap,... Krb5...
22:39<sarnold>twb: samba.. reading those docs are days of my life I've never get back :)
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22:39<sarnold>nezZario: hehehehe
22:39<nezZario>It keeps going.
22:39<nezZario>This is maddening.
22:39<nezZario>I guess it's Unix philosophy taken to the extreme? =)
22:40<twb>nezZario: NEVER EVER EVER use pam_ldap. The correct LDAP client is pam_ldapd. Another alternative is sss, which is a RHEL over-engineered thing.
22:40<nezZario>Yes I've been looking at sssd
22:41<nezZario>It appears freeipa basically frontend for krb5+sssd and their own ldap server, with a ui and some sort of certificate manager. Also has a one time pass thing thrown in.
22:42<twb>The main problem with pam_ldap is that it loads OpenSSL into every program, and it has crap caching. It has problems with e.g. sudo-ldap. pam_ldapd solves all of this with a local daemon (ldapd) that nss_ldapd and pam_ldapd talk to. It Just Works and is pleasant.
22:42<nezZario>well I've got to admit the automount thing on sssd is really cool
22:42<twb>I have not seriously fought sssd.
22:42<twb>It is a reasonable choice for krb+ldap AAA, I suppose. It feels like overkill for plain ldap.
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22:43<nezZario>I was honestly just thinking it would be nice to see a fork or clone of sssd slimmed down, or something
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22:44<nezZario>Basically all I'm trying to do is manage key login, + sudo for a few dozen servers, and also allow regular passwords - but not for ssh, only some unrelated web apps.
22:45<jo_>Alguem usa debi pra minerar
22:45<twb>!pt
22:45<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
22:45<nezZario>If I could get something like automount from sssd, that would be icing on the cake.
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22:48<nezZario>Frankly, as neat of a thing as it is, I don't understand kerberos's role in any of this.
22:49<nezZario>A key is a key, no? ... I mean, I would assume that if I used pam_ldapd then it would support providing a pub key, and openssh would use it just as an authorized_keys file?
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22:54<sarnold>nezZario: kerberos might not actually be *useful* useful. I've just got a thing for ancient software. I got more interested in actually trying it when I saw this: https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/remctl/
22:55<twb>nezZario: the basic purpose of kerberos is to allow server A to trust user B, without A ever knowing any passwords
22:55<twb>This is a Good Thing when you have 1000 "A" servers and some of them are run by idiots
22:55<nezZario>Ah okay so it is the host config
22:56<nezZario>Yeah I understand completely
22:56<twb>OAuth (slightly) and SAML (extremely) are kerberos ported to web apps
22:56<nezZario>SAML is for web apps?
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22:57<nezZario>Eh I need to read about it next then
22:57<twb>yes -- you use it for something else?
22:57<nezZario>Never used it?..
22:57<twb>"The single most important use case that SAML addresses is web browser single sign-on (SSO)."
22:57<nezZario>I swear sssd said it supported SAML
22:57<sarnold>nezZario: .. and perhaps in real life, openssh certificates might be the better thing to actually spend time on. heh.
22:57<nezZario>Maybe it didn't
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22:58<nezZario>What do you mean? - as in signing the client pubkeys?
22:58<twb>nezZario: it makes sense for sssd to speak saml
22:58<twb>nezZario: what that basically means is that your desktop login can pretend to be a web browser
22:59<twb>nezZario: so you can "log in" to your gnome, using your facebook account
22:59<nezZario>lol what
22:59<nezZario>nooo... seriously?
22:59<twb>or more realistically, so that facebook employees can log into their laptops using their faceobook account
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23:00<twb>and facebook doesn't have to run a separate second AAA stack, just the SAML one
23:00<sarnold>twb: what's aaa? authentication, authorization, and .. ? :)
23:00<twb>I forget :P
23:00<sarnold>hehehe
23:00<annadane>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:01<nezZario>So I take it that its oauth but instead of telling the third party to auth, it is doing some kind of challenge response
23:01<sarnold>unix confirmed
23:01<annadane>is usually my reaction, when i see a spider
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23:02<twb>nezZario: OK what actually happens in kerberos (and I believe SAML) is you have the application (e.g. gnome login screen) "A" and the end user "B", and they can both talk to a dude they tust and who knows B's password, called the AS/KDC
23:02-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2ef.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:03<twb>A and B both basically "log in" to the AS/KDC, and get secret numbers. Then, later, they can use those to make extra secret numbers, share them directly, and be sure that the other guy definitely talked to the KDC and didn't just make up a number
23:04<twb>sarnold: the third "A" is accounting (i.e. audit trail)
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23:05<sarnold>twb: AH :)
23:05<sarnold>twb: thanks :)
23:05<nezZario>makes sense.
23:07<nezZario>are you aware of the ca-signed keys thing in kerberos? I believe there is a way to setup kerberos, maybe even a function of openssh, to be able to provide a CA pubkey, and then any pubkey thst is signed by it, is allowed
23:08<twb>nezZario: I am not aware of such a thing
23:08<twb>X.509 certificates (CA certs, server certs, and client certs) provide similar functionality to kerbros
23:11<nezZario>I am only asking because I am trying to find some documentation
23:12<nezZario>That may be what I am looking for. I was unsure of exactly how it works. There is a commercial product that does it all hands free and managed...
23:16<twb>nezZario: what is your actual end goal?
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23:16<maxrazer>anyone else notice a problem with hexchat not responding when connecting to the first server after launching the program? It pauses for about 10-15 seconds.
23:18<sarnold>maxrazer: how long does it take to do eg ping www.yandex.ru or other similar services that are probably not in your dns cache?
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23:19<twb>strace it
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23:20<maxrazer>ping is 121 ms to www.yandex.ru
23:20<twb>maxrazer: sarnold was actually trying to make you time the DNS query with a cold cache
23:20<sarnold>yeah :)
23:20<maxrazer>The GUI stops responding every time on first server connect with hexchat.
23:20<sarnold>did it return results immediuately? after six seconds? after twelve seconds?
23:20<twb>e.g. "time kdig $RANDOM.example.com +short"
23:21<maxrazer>Hexchat didn't use to to that though.
23:21<maxrazer>traceroute was instant.
23:21<twb>the ICMP is not interesting
23:21<sarnold>twb: does kdig go through /etc/resolv.conf? or does it do something else?
23:22<maxrazer>I changed my resolv.conf too to use better dns servers. The problem existed before that though.
23:22<maxrazer>I'm using 208.67.222.222 and 4.2.2.1
23:22<twb>sarnold: good question; I dunno offhand
23:23<sarnold>maxrazer: and can you contact both of those via both udp port 53 *and* tcp port 53?
23:23<maxrazer>Before that I was using the verizon DHCP default server and I couldn't access a domain name.
23:23<twb>sarnold: I don't think you should check DNS before checking other things
23:24<twb>--> while it's "stuck", is it using 100% CPU? Is it in D state? What does strace say?
23:24<sarnold>twb: 10-15 seconds is just waaaay to close to "the first two DNS servers are rubbish"
23:24<sarnold>twb: sincwe that gets you to 12 seconds :)
23:24<twb>--> journalctl --system -p4 -b0 --since='10 min ago' --- anything scary?
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23:24<twb>sarnold: are you suggesting resolv.conf servers are checked sequentially?
23:24<maxrazer>I haven't pinged with TCP/UDP specified before or specific ports, but the problem has existed long before I changed DNS.
23:24<sarnold>twb: yeah
23:24<twb>sarnold: libnss_dns.so or libnss_resolve.so (systemd-resolved) ?
23:25<twb>sarnold: where is the timeout coming from?
23:25<maxrazer>I did use chattr to set resolv.conf to read only though rather than swap out my router.
23:25<twb>Hrm, no manpage for nss_dns
23:27<twb>Ahhh, libnss_dns is documented in resolv.conf.
23:27<maxrazer>I think two people are having a similar problem/conversation.
23:27<twb>"options timeout:5" is the default, "options rotate" is (I think) off by default.
23:28<twb>WOW, edns0 is off by default still?
23:28<twb>No wonder people have a hardon for systemd if the glibc resolver has conservative defaults
23:29<nezZario>Regarding the Ca-signed key auth thing?.. Nothing in particular with that, although it seems a bit more secure than using a long list of keys at least, as the key can be signed with metadata embedded corresponding to similar to authorized_keys options... Like force-command
23:31-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@37.169.101.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:31<sarnold>twb: RES_TIMEOUT in https://manpages.debian.org/buster/manpages/resolver.5.en.html -- turns out I was off by a whole second :D
23:32<nezZario>Kinda neat is all. But little to do with my real goal. Goal is just to setup key based SSO for about 50 servers and 15 employees. Be able to have fine grained access control (eg groups) regarding login and sudo. Possibly, some kind of audit trail. Ideally, be able to also specify a password and use that for some in-house web apps
23:33<sarnold>time for dinner, have fun all
23:33<twb>nezZario: krb alone has no groups, which is why you also have ldap
23:33<nezZario>For example we have a locally hosted wiki, locally hosted Kibana instance,... Stuff like that.
23:34<twb>But if you're mostly web apps, I suspect you should start with SAML and work backwards from there
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23:35<nezZario>Well we are a paas/SaaS provider but this is for 100% internal use only. Developers/Designers mainly. Some support staff need access to our wiki and git
23:36<nezZario>Our git setup is called gitea and has ldap... But idk it seems like an overkill off the bat.
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23:38<nezZario>Oh, and yeah if we could use kerberos host authentication that would be nice too instead of passing around "server keys" and "master backup keys". I limit them with authorized_keys options but it's still nearly impossible to manage and mistakes happen. If I could have NFS backed home directories that would be sweet too. Which is why I was interested in sssd. But then again I could just mount /home as NFS
23:38<twb>NFS krb or NFS sec=sys?
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23:40<nezZario>Not sure what either of those are. Frankly, our NFS mounts we use are managed (EFS)
23:40<nezZario>They are encrypted luckily
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23:41<nezZario>Not the data stored... Just in transit.. Supports a stunnel wrapper.. Idk if that is standard for NFS or not
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23:43<twb>nezZario: by default, NFS trusts the root user of *every device* on the network
23:43<twb>nezZario: in NFSv4 terminology, that mode is called "sec=sys"
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23:43<twb>nezZario: the alternative is to hook up NFS to kerberos (krb), which is "kerberized NFS"
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23:44<twb>(It's still not encrypted, so you still trust every router not to take a copy of files in use and send them to the americans)
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23:45<nezZario>Got it. Yeah that is definitely what it is. We don't store anything too sensitive on there at the moment...it is mostly shared app data for servers that are horizontally scaled. Nearly all of it is being ultimately served on public http. That and some logs go there for ingestion and some parts of deployment
23:46<nezZario>The sec=sys
23:47<nezZario>I guess if I were to do the home directory thing, I may just setup a real NFS since it wouldn't need a ton of storage anyway
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23:47<twb>IIUC SMB3.x supports wire encryption, but it's off by default for performance reasons.
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23:49<nezZario>Oh there really isn't any kind of encryption for the NFS protocol otherwise?... Again Amazon supports stunnel... I'm very aware of it as they distribute a tool to set it up with their weird rhel OS but I kind of had to hack my own
23:49<twb>nezZario: network file systems are ALL *VERY* depressing
23:49<twb>nezZario: do not even look at their locking support
23:50<twb>If you want a clean design look at 9pfs
23:50<nezZario>Wouldn't it be possible to use stunnel?
23:51<nezZario>I thought it supported listen-socket wrapping too?
23:51<twb>in principle, but not realistically due to some of NFS's baggage, and also that the NFS server is implemented in the kernel
23:51<twb>9p is routinely tunnelled over SSH
23:52<twb>NFS tunneled over OpenVPN would probably work easily and well
23:52<nezZario>Oh crap. I haven't heard anyone talking about 9p in a while. Actually your name sounds sort of familiar. Do you hang out with those cat-v guys?
23:53<twb>Do you mean Eric Raymond?
23:53<twb>Oh no, that's "catb"
23:54<twb>http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s06.html suggests encrypting using IPsec
23:55<twb>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_distributed_file_systems
23:55<nezZario>Haha no. I never relalized his site was catb... cat-v.org ... Just used to know a guy who was involved with that site / org and they were quite serious about some plan9
23:55<twb>Hrm, that's *distributed* rather than just *networked*
23:56<nezZario>Really cool stuff,... Never understood why it didn't take off...
23:57<twb>nezZario: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better
---Logclosed Wed Jul 31 00:00:32 2019