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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-08-03

---Logopened Sat Aug 03 00:00:36 2019
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01:23<aspid>hello everyone
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02:25<lbeaudou>Hi there, I'm quite new here (on IRC) and I'm wondering where I can get in touch with experts of Mutt... I'm sure I'll need them at some point...
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02:39<Grizzly>lbeaudou: you mean the mail client mutt?
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03:08<lbeaudou>Grizzly: yes.
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03:24<Grizzly>so what is your question?
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03:37<lbeaudou>Grizzly: Is there a way to : 1/ not enter my passwords each time I want to connect to the IMAP server AND 2/ not write the password in plain text in my config file...
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03:40<lbeaudou>Second question for GnuPG experts:
03:40<lbeaudou>How do I go from this :
03:40<lbeaudou>pub rsa3072 2019-08-03 [SC] [expires: 2021-08-02]
03:40<lbeaudou> 93A5585EBF4BD6591DD4D6AB3B6A48BA690F82C4
03:41<lbeaudou>to a keystring looking like 0x...
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05:03<Yngve>I'm preparing to migrate to buster (from strech) on a few machines where I have to keep legacy names for interfaces. We've been using /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules to define names up to this point. Based on the release notes for buster, I can move the naming of interfaces to a systemd .link file. /etc/systemd/network/ seems to be a good candidate for doing so. I have
05:03<Yngve>multiple interfaces, so I'm trying to grok how to configure multiple interfaces in one file with - can I for instance have two or more [Link] settings in one file?
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05:08<Yngve>Or maybe this is the wrong way of thinking about it - maybe i should make two files if i have two interfaces, eg., and
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06:15<Yngve>fwiw, adding a file for each interface seemed to work just fine.
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06:18<rant>Yngve: you can just put net.ifnames=0 into /etc/default/grub for GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX there is a kernel param to do it..
06:18<rant>but its all six in one half a dozen in the other :P
06:19<rant>Yngve: I personally use grub to do it.. seems far simpler to me
06:19<Yngve>rant: ah, ok. I agree.
06:19<Yngve>I was just worried by the release notes indicating that it might not work for multiple interfaces.
06:20<Yngve>"The net.ifnames=0 kernel commandline option might also work for systems with only one network interface (of a given type). "
06:20<rant>Yngve: you of course need to update-grub afterward
06:21<rant>Yngve: idk I used it in systems where I use my USB Netgear WG111v3 because it will not work for some reason with the new predictable ifnames and those systems also had network interfaces of their own.. both wired and sometimes wireless.. and it worked fine
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06:24<Yngve>rant: I see. I'll test it out, thanks (-:
06:25<rant>Yngve: there is also a sys interface for it if you want yet ANOTHER way of doing it.. which in and of itself can be done many different ways like with a systemd oneshot :P
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06:30<Yngve>rant: ah, yes. Good point.
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06:56<laptop>hi, I notice that the legacy 304 nvidia driver is no longer in the ubuntu package director. I am wondering what I can do about this? Can I install it from stretch in order to use in buster
06:57<laptop>sorry meant debian package directory
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07:00<blast007>does the 340 driver not support your card?
07:01<blast007>ah, one of the comments on the wiki page said the 340 supported the same cards as the 304, but higher up the page it indicates different support
07:02<blast007>it's just a bad copy/paste on one part.
07:03<laptop>I tried adding stretch repos but it did not work
07:03<blast007>304 for 6xxx and 7xxx, 340 for 8xxx through 7xx
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07:04<blast007>is this some onboard graphics, or something you can upgrade?
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07:04<laptop>nouveau works but not for gaming
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07:06<laptop> 304.137
07:08<blast007>comparatively, recent-ish intel HD graphics is probably faster than whatever the nvidia is
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07:52<nlecam>Hi, could someone help me, I'm trying to switching to noop io scheduler but it doesn't seem to be active and I can't find why. I'm on debian testing
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08:02<ksk>nlecam: sure thing. How did you try to set it?
08:03<bremner>nlecam: #debian-next for testing support
08:03<ksk>iirc you just need to echo it to somewhere to /proc to make it "active now" - and you would use systemctl to make it permanent between reboots maybe.
08:03<ksk>oh yes, testing support is not in given in here, did over-read that :)
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08:04<nlecam>sorry wrong action .. seems I missed a mention :/
08:05<bremner>I said: nlecam: #debian-next for testing support
08:05<bremner>maybe that's what you missed?
08:06<nlecam>haha ok :) I'm also there even if I don't think it's testing related thanks !
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08:28<ksk>nlecam: and because neither you nor we know if its testing related, we would like to not have that chat in here ;) (no offense)
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08:41<nlecam>no problem ksk, I understand and have switched to d-next
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09:04<Yngve>After switching to configuration of interface names (from /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules), I get syslog entries with "eth0.5: Failed to rename network interface 8 from 'eth0.5' to 'eth0'" for VLAN interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces. The config _works_ but leaves me with interfaces named like rename6@eth0. I've created a systemd link-configuration that looks
09:04<Yngve>like this
09:05<Yngve>I expect the issue is caused by matching on mac address, I'm just wondering if someone here has seen a a similar issue.
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09:37<qobi[m]>I've installed Buster on a notebook here, but the system won't boot up. Is there a special partition scheme for a UEFI w/ secure boot I need to setup? I'd never tried to install on a non BIOS computer.
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09:55<rant>qobi[m]: UEFI requires a bootable ESP partition
09:55*rant thinks UEFI as implemented is a very stupid idea
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10:05<rant>in my experience if you just let the installer do it, it does everything properly whether or not UEFI or Legacy mode is enabled
10:05<laptop>hello I have a question, I installed debian 10 from 9 and some of my packages are not in debian 10 so I am wondering I could just install debian 9 again but I switched to arch can I install some of those old packages
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10:11<r0b0>I've tried to upgrade from stretch+backports to buster today and in the middle of the process I got an ext4 corruption
10:12<r0b0>my current kernel in stretch is 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 - does this have the fix for the corruption with blk-mq?
10:13<r0b0>or what could be the reason for a corrupted root filesystem (apart from faulty hardware of course)?
10:14<qobi[m]><rant "in my experience if you just let"> Do you mean I should either use automated install or on partition disk use assisted partition?
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10:25<rant>yes, allow it to partition.. follow When In Doubt Hit Enter
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10:26<rant>I haven't experimented much with the installer in recent years but I've done at least one buster install with legacy and one with UEFI and they both worked
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10:28<qobi[m]><rant "I haven't experimented much with"> Thank you. I'll try that.
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11:02<jesus>sois mojones
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11:04<rant>so is who now?
11:04<iffyzoomer>Goodbye Jesus.
11:04<rant>iffyzoomer: he'll be back.. or so I've heard..
11:07<noorul[m]>Hello all
11:08<noorul[m]>Is this room bridged with IRC #debian.?
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11:21<bremner>noorul[m]: yes
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11:28<noorul[m]>bremner thank you
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11:49<Yngve>fwiw, regarding my previous message - i fixed it by setting NamingPolicy=keep
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11:58<iffyzoomer>Has anyone tried installing riot ( on buster? I've tried the same method I did for stretch and it doesn't work. I haven't tried building it from source yet. I just need to confirm that it's working on buster.
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12:20<petn-randall>iffyzoomer: I'm guessing it doesn't work due to missing dependencies?
12:20<petn-randall>Or what is the actual reason?
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12:25<iffyzoomer>petn-randall: It's unable to locate the package. My theory is either I have to build it from source, perhaps my 32bit system is the issue or it's because of the update. Though you might be correct about it being a missing dependencies issue because I did a clean install of debian on that laptop this morning.
12:25<iffyzoomer>Like I said, I just want to see if other buster users are having the same issue.
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12:25<petn-randall>iffyzoomer: Can you paste the output of `apt-cache policy` on
12:27<petn-randall>iffyzoomer: Ah, I see the issue. They don't have any packages in the buster release, it seems.
12:28<petn-randall>iffyzoomer: Either you poke them to provide packages also for buster, or you change /etc/apt/sources.list.d/riot-im.list to point to stretch, and hope that the dependencies are fulfilled.
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12:30<iffyzoomer>Sorry for the late reply, I was getting the laptop
12:30<iffyzoomer>though it seems that you found the issue
12:31<iffyzoomer>I'll try pointing it to stretch
12:34<petn-randall>iffyzoomer: Yeah, though you should report the issue to them, I think it's an oversight on their side.
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12:38<iffyzoomer>Doesn't seem to be working. I'll try building it form source a bit later and I'll report the issue.
12:41<iffyzoomer>Thanks for the help, petn-randall.
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13:12<Guest8982>i need some help, please
13:13*rant calls the paddy wagon for Guest8982
13:13<Guest8982>my probles is the wirless is not detected
13:13<rant>I somehow doubt that
13:15<rant>Guest8982: (lsusb;lspci -nn)|nc 9999
13:15<Guest8982>I turned on the computer and suddenly the wirless is not detected
13:16<rant>though if you say something silly like wireless not detected you probably arent going to have network available
13:18<Guest8982>no, what happens is that the section for the connection stopped and nothing else, I can't see the wirless card
13:19<Guest8982>I have wired network, but wireless no, it's just not available, or in the settings section
13:19<rant>You're not making the slightest bit of sense to me.. I can't see the wireless card either.. cause I'm not there.. I can also put my hat over my head and not see things
13:20<petn-randall>rant: Please try to be a bit more supportive, you know what they mean.
13:20<petn-randall>Guest8982: What OS release are you running?
13:21<rant>no, I really don't. I am guessing after hearing several vague explainations they may be referring to network-manager
13:21<Guest8982>I think the service is not enabled or something like that, but I don't know how to enable the service, something like the systemctl for bluetooth
13:21<rant>but I still have no idea if its "not detecting" or "not seeing" the hardware or the access point
13:22<rant>and even then I'm assuming wifi, which was never specified
13:22<Guest8982>dont seeing
13:23<petn-randall>Guest8982: What OS release are you running? Are you referring to WiFi, or some other wireless protocol?
13:23<Guest8982>Debian 10
13:23<Guest8982>yes, my problem is the wifi
13:24<rant>Guest8982: are you saying it was working before, and now when you turned it on this time, its no longer working?
13:25<Guest8982>I don't see the secluded to turn on the wifi
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13:26<rant>Guest8982: you gotta give us something here.. there are pci wireless cards, usb wireless cards, thousands of models, all different form factors of computers (tablets, desktops, etc..) 7 major Desktop Environments, at least 3 major network frameworks..
13:27<Guest8982>is the wirless card, this is a laptop
13:27<Guest8982>Desktop envioremt GNOME 3
13:28<rant>I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T440, 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 [8086:08b2] (rev 83) using MATE, which uses network-manager I have an icon next to my clock that I click on and it shows the wifi access points..
13:28-!-W_D [~whitedevi@2405:204:738a:62c2:506a:ac23:38af:efff] has joined #debian
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13:28<rant>ok.. well then you probably also use network-manager-gnome same as me even though I don't use gnome
13:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 594] by debhelper
13:29<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
13:29<rant>Guest8982: network-manager-gnome has something when you right-click the icon that allows you to uncheck the wireless
13:29<rant>Guest8982: many laptops also have hardware switches that disable the radio
13:29<W_D>i am using parrot linux but i unable to install usb network device
13:29<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages, or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
13:30<W_D>where are you from
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13:31<Guest8982>Rant, what radio?
13:31<rant>Guest8982: whatever radios it may have.. wifi, bluetooth, nfc, wwan..
13:31<W_D>okay then
13:31<Guest8982>Wifi, bluethooth, wired
13:31<rant>Guest8982: bottom line is, all I can do is sit here and guess that you turned it off.. and tell you some of the ways that is done
13:32<Guest8982>my problem is the wifi
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13:32<rant>Guest8982: since I know absolutely nothing about your system
13:32<W_D>my pc is a old ibm system
13:32<Guest8982>ok, my System is Debian 10
13:33<W_D>but i am making it to run with linux
13:33<rant>I know that Gnome 3, which is all I know.. uses network-manager-gnome which provides an applet icon on the panel.. I know if you right click that icon you have check boxes for Enable Network and Enable Wifi.. if network is unchecked wifi is not available.. if network is checked and wifi is not, wifi is not available
13:33<rant>I also know many machines (laptops) have phsyical switches that turn the radios off
13:33<rant>some even have soft switches in the form of Fn keys
13:34<W_D>okay i will try
13:34<W_D>by the by
13:34<W_D>what is your name
13:34<Guest8982>i understand, but no, i have all turned on, but no see the wifi
13:35-!-W_D [~whitedevi@2405:204:738a:62c2:506a:ac23:38af:efff] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:35<rant>well then try opening your eyes, idk
13:35<rant>maybe see an eye doctor about corrective lenses..
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13:35<rant>or try give something for us to go on
13:36<rant>is the adapter USB, PCI? Don't know? check output of lspci -nn and lsusb..
13:37<rant>the important part is the 1234:ABCD identifier
13:37<rant>check as root, the command iwconfig
13:37<rant>check again as root, dmesg | grep firmware
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13:47<W_D>any one in this group is tamil
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13:59<W_D>guys please say me how to create a network in hexchat
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14:00<blast007>W_D: do you mean add an existing IRC network?
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14:01<W_D>no create a new network to chat with friends
14:02<blast007>you wouldn't use hexchat to create an IRC network
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14:02<blast007>hexchat is an IRC client, not an IRC server
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14:02<W_D>okay then how do i form a group in hexchat
14:02<blast007>now, you could create an IRC *channel*
14:04<blast007>some networks may focus on certain topics, such as OFTC (this network) focusing on open-source software/technology communities
14:05<blast007>the basics of creating a channel is just joining one - if it doesn't exist, it will be "created". Though there's further steps such as registering a channel that can be done for longer-term use.
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14:13<tomg>I get this message: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 12 not upgraded.
14:14<tomg>how do I find out which packages aren't being upgraded? I don't see them in apt-get dist-upgrade, or dselect, or synaptic.... I have a few extra sources.list installed for proprietary programs
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14:16<jack>tomg: try apt list --upgradable
14:17<tomg>okay, it shows my self-compiled policykit-1 in it, and suggests -a to show more info, but that's only one package out of 12
14:17<jack>there could technically be a newer version but it's lower priority?
14:18<jack>or otherwise unsuitable i've run into it with multiple repos offering tor before
14:18<tomg>are you talking about the policykit-1 package? both my self-compiled one and the repo one have the same version number, i don't know why
14:18<tomg>ah okay so you think it might have something to do with the other repos, thanks
14:19<jack>maybe make sure your version is bigger?
14:19<tomg>i have five other repos for google and other programs
14:19<tomg>yeah i'll probably get around to doing that sometime :)
14:19<jack>unsure if that'd fix it but i feel like it'd help
14:19<jack>less policy amibguity based on which apt interface you use
14:20<tomg>I commented out every additional apt source, now it's just the standard Debian repos, and ran apt update, but it still says 12 packages to be upgraded (one is policykit-1)
14:20<tomg>well, i'm willing to try any apt interface
14:21<tomg>also this is Debian oldstable, i have some proprietary debs installed, and thousands of other packages
14:22<tomg>i just want to know why it's telling me 11 packages can be upgraded and which ones they are, if possible :)
14:22<jhutchins>tomg: I think it's apt --list upgradable
14:22<jhutchins>tomg: Check the manpage.
14:24<jack>ohhhh old stable may not have a good version of 'apt'
14:24<jack>my backtick key broken :(
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14:24<tomg>i didn't know there were not good versions of apt
14:25<jack>apt is a new cli frontend
14:25<jack>apt-get is more standard for that version you're running
14:25<jack>or sometimes aptitude
14:25<jack>aptitude often is better at explaining what it's doing
14:25<tomg>jhutchins, thanks, but apt list --upgradeable shows info, and --upgradable says it's not understood
14:26<tomg>oh I thought you meant APT in general, not the new apt CLI frontend
14:26<jack>the whole system of apt is pretty stable not much changes there :)
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14:27<tomg>apt-get upgrade and aptitude upgrade still say 12 packages not upgraded, i just wish they would tell me which ones and why :)
14:27<jack>"new" is pushing it
14:27<jack>they both do take verbosity commands
14:27<jack>I think there's also apt-cache policy that might be helpful?
14:28<tomg>can obsolete packages get marked "not upgraded"? that makes little sense. i'll try messing with the apt-cache policy
14:29<jack>you want to specify some packages probably with it so try
14:29<jack>'apt-cache policy policykit-1'
14:29<jack>so it doesn't just spew
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14:30<tomg>well it's telling me about my mirrors and their priorities
14:30<tomg>no pinned packages
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14:32<tomg>and a little about available versions for policykit-1
14:32<tomg>so, i guess something that's not normally done by APT is going on here, how it's forgetting to show which packages can be ugpraded
14:32<tomg>thanks for trying
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14:34<tomg>jhutchins, ah maybe --upgradable works after all, with both spellings
14:37<tomg>next question... can you please help me get my nvidia working. it used to work on this computer. right now GCC is failing to compile the nvidia kernel
14:39<tomg>from /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-current/390.116/build/make.log
14:40<tomg>it's the exact same version, just the version information strings are in a different order
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14:44<tomg> same thing for a different nvidia version reported here, backports are involved but I don't have them installed on my system
14:44<judd>Bug in nvidia-driver (closed): «nvidia-driver: dependence on 'gcc-6'»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-06-10; last modified: 2018-07-21.
14:45<tomg>perhaps i had backports enabled once, and this is the cause of my 12 upgradeable packages problem and also my nvidia driver failure to compile problem
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14:50<tomg>it's the exact same error, which makes no sense
14:59<tomg>okay, going to try nouveau for now :) i'll probably be gone, because it clobbers console mode :)
15:02<tomg>okay i'm here, but X is 640x480 and that's not the resolution of my display
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15:06<tomg>i am extremely appreciative of stretch, but keep having problems with the video :) if I got all of the above working I'd be happy
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15:12<piper>you might need a newer kernel, depending on your nvidia card, I strongly advise to use nvidia from experimental, unless you have both a intel & nvidia, that situation I won't touch anymore, thats a mess
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15:29<dpkg>The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <wheezy-backports>. #bumblebee on
15:33<sqrt{not}>,v bumblebee
15:33<judd>Package: bumblebee on amd64 -- jessie: 3.2.1-7; stretch: 3.2.1-14; bullseye: 3.2.1-20; buster: 3.2.1-20; sid: 3.2.1-20
15:34<sqrt{not}>,v bumblebee-nvidia
15:34<judd>Package: bumblebee-nvidia on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 3.2.1-7; stretch/contrib: 3.2.1-14; bullseye/contrib: 3.2.1-20; buster/contrib: 3.2.1-20; sid/contrib: 3.2.1-20
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16:38<futune>I'm installing Buster via debootstrap, and I installed grub in my chroot, but the command "grub-install" is not there
16:38<futune>was it removed? do we use some new method?
16:39<Blendie>how did you install gryb?
16:40<futune>apt-get install grub, in the chroot
16:41<Blendie>it should be grub2 as far as i can tell
16:42<futune>ok, works now
16:42<futune>with grub2 instead of grub
16:43<sqrt{not}>there is also a package: grub-installer
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16:55<tomg>i didn't know there was nvidia in experimental, i'll look up that and bumblebee, thanks guys
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16:57<tomg>although, it did work before on this computer, i think i ruined it when i upgraded to stable, found it didn't support my video card, and then downgraded it again. this might have somethign to do with my 11 unknown upgradeable packages too
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17:05<tomg>okay my /usr/bin/x86_64-linux-gnu-as was missing for some reason
17:05<tomg>i reinstalled binutils and now the kernel is compiling again
17:05<tomg>i mean, the nvidia kernel module is compiling again
17:06<tomg>i found this out because I went to play Deadpool 2 on my computer, and libdvdcss wasn't installed
17:06<tomg>all hail the hacker spirit to make things work even if large corporations don't want you to
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17:18<tomg>nvidia kernel module now installed, but i have nouveau module inserted so i can't insert the nvidia one. i think i got it working now, thanks all
17:18<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
17:19<tomg>hi rant
17:20<rant>hi goofball that talked to no one in particular about nvidia card never mentioned supposedly not being supported
17:20<rant>next time try mentioning before all that what f'n card you have
17:22<sqrt{not}>rant seems a little crabby today
17:23<tomg>er it is supported
17:23<tomg>in oldstable anyway
17:24<tomg>which is still on topic
17:24<rant>just cause /my/ name is _rant_ and this person ranted for hours about a card not being supported and has not asked a single question or provided any information
17:24<rant>so, no, its not on topic
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17:25<rant>the on topic thing to do would be to say something like hey.. I have a T440 with a 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Haswell-ULT Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0a16] (rev 0b), is that supported in Buster?
17:25<rant>not rant for hours on end about your video card not being supported and never mentioning what card it is or asking any questions
17:26<tomg>I did say "can you please help me get my nvidia working", but you're right, it would have helped if had named the card and oldstable right away,a nd not rambled
17:27<kolden>I have a KDC with samba on stretch and a domain client that was recently upgraded to buster. The domain client uses mod_auth_kerb with apache 2.4. However, when I try to log in, the kerberos login fails, it falls back to basic auth, and that fails too. Anyone experienced something similar?
17:28<kolden>the last failing line is gss_accept_sec_context() failed: An unsupported mechanism was requested (, Unknown error), but I think this is just the final symptom of mod_auth_kerb failing
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17:35<kolden>correction. gss_accept_sec_context happens before basic auth is tried
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17:39<filipemosca>msg NickServ help
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17:42<kolden>nvm, the gss thing is because i happen to be doing this from a windows machine which cant do gssapi
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18:07<jacques>how are you now??
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18:23<k-man>is there a channel dedicated to discussing games on debian?
18:25<jamieb452>Oh, I am not sure, what about you?
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18:26<jamieb452>I am currently on Ubuntu 18, what about you?
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18:27<jamieb452>a lot of leaving.....
18:29<tarzeau>k-man: #debian-games ? or here?
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18:29<jamieb452>I believe you can talk about games here maybe, not sure,
18:29<tarzeau>k-man: my favourites: nethack, bubnbros, jumpnbump, lix, pushover
18:29<tarzeau>oh and mrboom
18:29<jamieb452>Anyone here on Steam?
18:30<tarzeau>i don't think that's part of debian
18:30<jamieb452>well Steam is linux compatible and it's growing with games using the proton feature.
18:31<ach>games? IP/tcp?
18:31<jamieb452>check it out,
18:31<tarzeau>does linux support playstation 4 controller with bluetooth?
18:31<tarzeau>oh wait, i'd have to get a bluetooth dongle first...
18:31<laptop>hi do not mean to ask this question again but I tried to upgrade to debian 10 but nvidia legacy 304 driver is no longer supported in the repos and I cannot backport it from stretch. I tried the nouveau driver but for now it is very substandard but if I go with nouveau I can use the latest kernel 5.3. I noticed on archlinux and even ubuntu you cannot install nvidia legacy driver 304 either although ubuntu now offers a nvidia graphics
18:31<laptop>repository. So my question is besides get a new computer is any way to update the rest of my system from stretch to buster without directly installing buster or the replacement nvidia driver
18:32<jamieb452>This is how many games work so far using proton feature on Steam, 5,849 games work
18:32<tarzeau>laptop: did the nvidia-340 driver work?
18:32<jamieb452>Even GTA V works good using the proton feature
18:33<jamieb452>So you can play GTA V on linux
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18:33<tarzeau>jamieb452: and it'd flicker? and v tearing? wrong fps? no proper input device?
18:33<laptop>no I thought it would but 340 did not work
18:33<tarzeau>jamieb452: i've seen people trying to play stuff on a android mobile, it was broken beyond any fixage
18:33<jamieb452>nope, it works totally fine on Ubuntu 18.
18:33<tarzeau>laptop: which nvidia card you got? lspci |grep VGA?
18:34<tarzeau>laptop: must be 7+ years old?
18:34<laptop>yes nvidia 7150/630n it is on one of my older laptops, I have a few
18:34<tarzeau>jamieb452: i've compared playstation emulator between a linux and macOS, it was horrible experience on linux
18:34<jamieb452>I will upload a picture of it working on Ubuntu 18
18:34<tarzeau>laptop: gift the older ones away, use the newer
18:35<tarzeau>laptop: i'm throwing away nvidia-340 desktop hw (still 10 left) but that's just not usable anymore (albeit for CUDA stuff not gaming)
18:35<tarzeau>jamieb452: video, not picture
18:35<jamieb452>Have you ever tried using mono on linux to run some windows apps along with proton feature on steam
18:35<tarzeau>i tried mono. it sucked. i hate it. i don't want it
18:35<k-man>tarzeau: thanks. i'm after a car racing sim
18:36<laptop>ok my other question was can you directly upgrade from stretch to buster with updates
18:36<tarzeau>k-man: ?
18:36<jamieb452>Okay, take a look at this firstly
18:37<tarzeau>jamieb452: fun. look at
18:37<jamieb452>There is reports from people on that link trying out linux
18:37<tarzeau>wow they got directx in between? YUCK
18:37<jamieb452>As shown, people there have it fully working on linux GTA V
18:38*tarzeau gets himself some wodka and a cigarette before he pukes about that microsoft directx crap
18:38<k-man>thanks tarzeau
18:39<tarzeau>k-man: i even made a package of it, but it's not quite ready yet
18:39<jamieb452>You do know that microsoft and Valve are actually investing a lot into linux.
18:39<tarzeau>jamieb452: i don't care. i wouldn't take a penny from microsoft
18:40<tarzeau>jamieb452: unless they promise to go bankrupt and end making fonts or software of any kind
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18:41<jamieb452>Well the thing is, it just goes to show that linux is more powerful then such companies thought
18:41<k-man>tarzeau: oh nice! because i can't work out how to install it
18:41<tarzeau>jamieb452: linux is an overbloated kernel, inverior to almost 3 or 4 microkernels
18:42<tarzeau>a video driver should never be able to crash a system, it does with linux
18:42<jamieb452>This shows a lot
18:42<tarzeau>k-man: if you want to try:
18:42<tarzeau>but the current build won't run because i added a patch to fix redhat brokenness with lib32
18:44<jamieb452>So i am guessing most of you are using debian?
18:45<tarzeau>jamieb452: chickenshit. read that
18:46<jamieb452>Oh, i clicked it and my pc is totally going nuts, do i delete my OS? you really think i'm stupid?
18:47<tarzeau>jamieb452: it's just a summary of why linux is only great for servers and research, not desktops
18:48<tarzeau>if you look at reddit or any other platform how people struggle installing debian or even ubuntu, it's clear not ready for desktop use
18:48<jamieb452>Still can be good for using personally as a desktop, even if it's great for other things
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18:48<tarzeau>just yesterday was someone in here with some sound hw where the mic wouldn't work, unless he'd take 5.2 linux kernel, which is not in debian
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18:49<tarzeau>absolutely, if the user doesn't mind reading, using shell, and building software himself, and maybe patching here and there
18:49<jamieb452>Well I can understand newbies stuggle for linux side to things
18:50<jamieb452>But there is other linux distros that can make it easy as pie to use with mostly GUI
18:50<tarzeau>but having 3+ different sound systems, 5+ desktop systems/gui toolkits, x and wayland, doesn't make it easy
18:50<tarzeau>i disagree. unless there's only one (debian) and no more rpm/fedora/redhat, it'll be a mess with wasted resources
18:51<tarzeau>i mean look at, how much manpower is wasted packaging the one and same software 10+ times
18:51<tarzeau>that is insane
18:51<jamieb452>Take a look here at this for example
18:51<jamieb452>newbie friendly
18:51<tarzeau>i know about it. but it's just doing the looks, not the internals nor the consistency of usage
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18:52<tarzeau>jamieb452: if you start a motif, qt, gtk application in elemantry, they still have each their own quircks and inconsistency in usage
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18:52<tarzeau>let's not even start with language support, if you're not english, you're screwed. if you're not left-to-right, even more
18:52<jamieb452>oh you mean the application design side
18:53<tarzeau>input system. fail, even in 2019
18:53<tarzeau>even a mechanic 40+ years old typewriter is better
18:53<tarzeau>because without configuration you can't type umlauts, with a typerwriter, ios/macos no problem
18:54<jamieb452>Well user expectation yet is the issue, but still, linux even as a early age, it has come a very long way, even if the issues still.
18:55<tarzeau>but even after the gtk1->2 disaster, they did it again with 2->3, and i bet it'll be the same mess with 4
18:55<tarzeau>config files not compatible between versions
18:55<tarzeau>qt3, 4, 5... python2, python3, it's not going to stop
18:55<jamieb452>hmm, sounds to be a rush rather then taking care into it
18:57<jamieb452>a lot has been focused into the function rather then design of the GUI, i mean, strip a car from it's fancy side, and drive down the road, thats linux without much care into the design side.
18:58<jamieb452>Still just a shell really.
18:59<jamieb452>So anyways, so what is everyone here doing for plans for the weekend?
18:59<tarzeau>are we talking linux or gui applications?
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19:00<tarzeau>linux is just a kernel, not even a shell nor c library yet
19:00<jamieb452>a bit of both, sorry if worked up, been at work earlier.
19:00<tarzeau>i'm going to drink, a lot and then sleep.
19:01<jamieb452>has anyone here got a email address?
19:03<tarzeau>i think the cool ones have
19:04<jamieb452>well i have a email that is with
19:05<jamieb452>proud member of the linux foundation
19:08<jamieb452>Donated like $100k to the linux foundation.
19:08<rant>jamieb452: all at once or in installments? :P
19:09<jamieb452>All at once, I had been saving along side my job, to help out the linux foundation
19:09<tarzeau>jamieb452: really? damn if only you'd have donated it to
19:10<jamieb452>I might in future donate some towards
19:11<tarzeau>jamieb452: but you don't even know what it is?
19:11<jamieb452>I have read it up a long time ago, it's for the application framework side etc
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19:16<jamieb452>Apt install logic =======>Loading logic==========> WOW! I can see clearly now! XD lol
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20:16<piper>rant: that goofball was me, maybe you need to learn english a little better
20:16<piper>[Saturday, August 3, 2019] [3:12:19 PM EDT]<piper> you might need a newer kernel, depending on your nvidia card, I strongly advise to use nvidia from experimental, unless you have both a intel & nvidia, that situation I won't touch anymore, thats a mess
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20:22<piper>tomg: if you have any other problems come to a non-toxic place, we'll get you sorted
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21:54<tomg>ah, thank you very much piper
21:55<tomg>take care and thanks everyone
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22:12<guy>I'm trying DEBIAN live, problem is wifi isn't working. What can Ido?
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22:17<sqrt{not}>guy: what is full name of the .iso of your debian live, and what kind of wifi hardware do you have ?
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22:23<guy>I believe it is intels wifi chip, I don't know how to interrogate the hardware without Internet access to install inxi
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22:25<blast007>lspci -nn or lsusb, depending on how the chip is connected
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22:26<blast007>you could grab the ISO that contains (most) non-free firmware:
22:27<sqrt{not}>guy: yes, that might just make it start working with no further fussing around
22:28<guy>blast007: Neither command is recognized. I will grab the ISO you suggested.
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22:28<guy>OK thanks everyone for the suggestions
22:29<blast007>I think both of those commands should be available
22:29<blast007>the first letter is a lowercase L, in case your font is making that unclear
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 04 00:00:37 2019