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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-08-15

---Logopened Thu Aug 15 00:00:26 2019
---Daychanged Thu Aug 15 2019
00:00-!-csotelo [~csotelo@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:02<annadane>!based on debian
00:02<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
00:02<annadane>police, ne laissez pas moi un message au privee
00:03<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
00:03<annadane>allez au #ubuntu sur freenode
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00:04-!-l117 is "L117" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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00:12-!-nowhereman is "Pierre Thierry" on #concatenative #emacs #git #erights #lisp #debian
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01:02-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
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03:00-!-ansel` is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
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03:04<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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06:32-!-cozzy is "realname" on #debian
06:32<cozzy>iam Cozzzy
06:33<cozzy>ازيك عامل اييه
06:33<dpkg>well, ar is a program packaged in binutils to create, modify, and extract from archives (man ar), or argentina, or #debian-ar on
06:33<cozzy>from Egypt
06:33<dpkg>مرحبا! للحصول على الدعم باللغة العربية لتوزيعة دبيان جنو\لينيكس , الرجاء التوجه الى قناة ##debian-ar
06:34<cozzy>ok thx
06:36<cozzy>no one
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06:45<CompaqUser>Hi I want help
06:45<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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06:48<CompaqUser>I have a problem with grub (I think ) I installed Debian 9 and not installed grub so I restart my PC and he tell me "No-system disk or disk error" .Can you please help me it is because I haven't installed grub ?
06:48<bremner>CompaqUser: possibly. Did you install some other bootloader?
06:49<bremner>also, current debian stable is debian 10, by the way
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06:50<CompaqUser>Yeah I have download the iso and burn it today so I think I installed Debian 10
06:52<bremner>How come you did not install grub?
06:53<CompaqUser>He tell me if I want to install grub & I tell no because idh another system
06:53<bremner>"idh" ?
06:54<CompaqUser>I don't have
06:54<petn-randall>I don't understand your logical conclusion. Why would you *not* want to install grub then?
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06:55<CompaqUser>I don't have another system
06:55<bremner>CompaqUser: are you trying to dual-boot windows?
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06:59<CompaqUser>I want to install grub and Debian not starting so how do I do
06:59<petn-randall>CompaqUser: Sure, but grub is an essential part to boot Debian. You will need it, no matter if you have another system, or not.
07:00<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
07:00<petn-randall>CompaqUser: You can try installing grub with the instructions above. ^^^
07:00<CompaqUser>Ok thx
07:00<bremner>or just reinstall if that is too complicated
07:00<CompaqUser>I will just reinstall :) thx for help
07:01<petn-randall>ok :)
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07:01<petn-randall>Just remember to install grub in the last step :)
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07:27<EmleyMoor>Because of a problem running fuse-emulator-gtk in wayland, I am trying to create a script in my personal bin directory to do "GDK_BACKEND=x11 fuse". I have created a script, #!/bin/bash at the top then this line, but it repeatedly causes this message to be printed: /bin/bash: warning: shell level (1000) too high, resetting to 1. Why does it do this and how do I make it work?
07:28<themill>what's the name of this script?
07:29<EmleyMoor>themill: Ah, you've just reminded me what the problem is... not thinking straight because I'm a bit cross with my ISP for a billing cockup this morning... permit me to correct my silly error
07:30<themill>Happy to be the rubber duck
07:31<EmleyMoor>Wayland is causing the majority of my issues under buster - but I'm finding workarounds at least for most of them
07:32<EmleyMoor>It's a shame I can't get my DWL-G122 to work - it sees networks but fails to authenticate, and for once I can't blame wayland
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07:34<themill>wrong/different firmware required?
07:35<EmleyMoor>the-mill: Er, possibly... I'll put the machine I intend it for on when the cat moves
07:36<themill>rt73usb seems to only use one firmware file from firmware-misc-nonfree but I assume you've already tried that
07:36<EmleyMoor>Yes. Will check I've not got some odd variant of the device when I can
07:38<EmleyMoor>Cat just moved, so booting up
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07:41<EmleyMoor>Bus 001 Device 002: ID 2001:3c00 D-Link Corp. AirPlus G DWL-G122 Wireless Adapter(rev.B1) [Ralink RT2571] - is that a "normal" one of these?
07:42<dpkg>The Ralink RT2500USB 802.11g chipset (RT2571) is supported by the rt2500usb Linux kernel driver. It does not require firmware from userspace. This driver will fall back to software encryption for TKIP+AES since linux-2.6 2.6.32-31 (Debian bug #611390). . For RT2501USB/RT2571W device support, ask me about <rt73usb>.
07:43<EmleyMoor>My issue with it is it can see my network but not authenticate to it - it times out
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07:45<blast007>seems there's multiple adapters with that same model number (differing in revision) that use different chips
07:45<EmleyMoor>I only intend this as a "stopgap" measure until I can wire through into the room where it's going
07:46<blast007>does it work with an open network? or WEP?
07:46<EmleyMoor>Good point, let me try...
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07:50<EmleyMoor>It will annoy my 2.4GHz devices for a few minutes
07:55<EmleyMoor>No to WEB
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07:58<EmleyMoor>Yes to open, let me retry WEP
08:00<EmleyMoor>Yes to WEP
08:03<EmleyMoor>Now yes to WPA - this is strange, but not that strange
08:04<EmleyMoor>Now activation is failing again
08:04<bremner>can anyone read arabic? I suspect !arabic needs to mention freenode, but it doesn't
08:07<EmleyMoor>Not good :-( can't accept/trust this
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08:29<pert>Hello, I need help with the installer
08:29<pert>I'm installing Buster from a netinstall USB, but to connect to the Internet I need the free firmware in firmware-ath9k-htc
08:30<pert>It doesn't come with the installer, and so I put the package and firmware files on a FAT32 flash drive
08:31<pert>But it doesn't detect them. The installer detects that I need firmware for my non-free Wi-Fi adapter installed, but doesn't acknowledge my USB dongle that needs the firmware
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08:35<EmleyMoor>pert: Have you tried the unofficial installer with firmware?
08:36<EmleyMoor>(not sure it will help but worth a try)
08:36<pert>No, because that has non-free firmware and I want to stick to using free software
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09:00<piper>pert: Your not going to like what I have to say, if you want to stick to using free software, you should have done your homework and made sure all your equipment (laptop, pc) matches up to "free software" standards. OTOH you can use non-free firmware and *possibly connect to the internet. Do you go with ? or do you go without ? People that want to stick with free software have work to do before buying anything
09:02<pert>piper: I did do my homework, it's RYF certified. The device does support free firmware, it's just not included with the Debian Installer. It's in firmware-ath9k-htc
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09:05<pert>That's why I have it, so I don't need to use my laptop's internal one with non-free firmware
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09:08<thsnr>pert: although the installer with firmware is called non-free, it contains the same open-source firmware-ath9k-htc package that you want (1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3)
09:08<piper>pert: it's not included in the installer, probably for a good reason, why it *might be on the "unofficial installer"
09:08<pert>well it's in main, so I don't see why not - maybe it was just overlooked
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09:11<piper>thats also the same package in sid and bullseye
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09:15<piper>pert: what product do you have on this list
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09:37<pert>The Technoethical TET-N150HGA is a refurbished TP-Link TL-WN722N, which is what I have.
09:37<pert>It uses the AR9271 chipset
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09:48<piper>pert: sorry can't help, i use sid & non-free exclusive, someone else will chime in, just be patient, your probably have to get the firmware on a stick
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09:52<meeh__> I am not a purist. I have no issues with proprietary drivers on some levels.
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09:55<piper>I use to be, but with kids & grandkids, games, tv recordings etc, it's linux or windows, I prefer my brats learn linux
09:56<piper>plus a hobby shouldn't restrict
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09:59<piper>Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GM204 [GeForce GTX 970] vendor: driver: nvidia v: 430.40
10:01<piper>thats with a 5.2.8 kernel
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10:51<alphabet>Hi. I installed debian on one SSD, then disconnected the drive and plugged in another ssd and installed windows on there. When I switched back to the Debian SSD (windows SSD unplugged) I couldn't book and was asked to insert a bottable medium. Anyone a clue what the problem might be?
10:51<jaikercito>How's everybody?
10:51<tarzeau>alphabet: got efi bios?
10:52<alphabet>I do so (I think) already put into legacy mode, sadly didn't help
10:52<tarzeau>alphabet: why don't you keep both disks connected? i'm not a fan of changing any disks any time. except for usb connected, trying out e-sata now for more speed
10:52<jaikercito>See "systemctl status minissdpd.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
10:52<alphabet>becaue I didn't have a sata cable at hand and it was a sponatnuous idea
10:52<jaikercito>invoke-rc.d: initscript minissdpd, action "start" failed.
10:52<jaikercito>● minissdpd.service - keep memory of all UPnP devices that announced themselves
10:52<jaikercito> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/minissdpd.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
10:52<jaikercito> Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Thu 2019-08-15 10:52:09 -04; 12ms ago
10:52<jaikercito> Docs: man:minissdpd(1)
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10:54<alphabet>tarzeau: becaue I didn't have a sata cable at hand and it was a spontanuous idea but I think, since I'd had to manually select a boot device the outcome might have been the same
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10:54<alphabet>I am just very surprised that an installation could mess with the underlying EFI/BIOS system to the point I cannot boot another medium
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10:55<tarzeau>i'm struggling with many computer bios implementations very broken, especially with more than one boot medium selected, and it's order (combined with pxe)
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10:56<tarzeau>i hope all bios dies. except the ones of macOS hardware (EFI) and sparc. they are standard, they work. but pc hardware is a nightmare, and will always be. thanks ibm, microsoft!
10:56<jhutchins_wk>alphabet: Sounds like grub wasn't installed correctly.
10:56<user_>guys what do you prefer. kali or parrot os
10:56<alphabet>tarzeau: hmm PXE might be available on this machine, too
10:57<jhutchins_wk>user_: Debian.
10:57<user_>yeah.. their both based on debian soo...
10:57<alphabet>jhutchins_wk: well, I didn't configurate it in any way, was all done by the debian isntaller scripts. and it shouldn't matter if it didn't have any contact with the other SSD anyway, or should it?
10:58<tarzeau>alphabet: my point was depending on if i have pxe, and at what order, it keeps failing, forcing me to go away from the default (pxe,disk)
10:58<tarzeau>and then there's the people that go with ssd, or disk too small, and keep adding disks (that makes it even more broken with bioses being buggy)
10:59<tarzeau>user_: ubuntu is african word with the meaning "can't install debian"
10:59<tarzeau>also applies for kali and parrot os
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10:59<user_>this makes no sense if kali and parrot are both made from debian
11:00<alphabet>tarzeau: so the propber way would be to manage it all with LILO or GRUB, but that is too late for me now I am afraid
11:00<alphabet>maybe some further tinkering might yield something I can work with
11:01<tarzeau>alphabet: enter the bios and check your options? i've seen bioses not show connected disks, in boot order, but select boot device at boot works
11:01<alphabet>sadly it doesnt seem to be a problem too common since a quick search didnt get me anything useful
11:01<tarzeau>user_: whatever but #debian is about debian
11:01<alphabet>yeah, I will connect both discs now and play around a little again
11:01<piper>user_: but it's not debian, i use siduction debian sid, same sources from debian including deb buildd-unstable main contrib non-free, but same rules apply
11:01<user_>yes and kali and parrot are basically debian, i cannot just decide which i take
11:02<piper>user_: debian
11:02<user_>BUT WHICH DEBIAN
11:02<user_>KALI OR PARROT
11:02<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages, or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
11:02<tarzeau>there's only one! the software from yesterday STABLE debian
11:02<dpkg>Kali Linux ( is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on or . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read
11:03<user_>i just.. wanted your opinions
11:03<user_>not support
11:03*tarzeau likes the original in this case
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11:04<user_>yeah but not for penetration
11:04<tarzeau>yes also
11:04<piper>debian is the opinion and support, when you know what your doing you will need neither
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11:05<user_>can you tell me why i cannot install mysql-server. i am forced to install default-mysql-server where is the difference
11:05<user_>debian 10
11:05<piper>mysql is so 70's mariadb
11:06<tarzeau>nobody said debian is the latest and most modern. it just claims to be stable, and a binary distribution of software
11:06<user_>for me it is the same. both does the same job
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11:06<piper>user_: please go to the parrot or kali forums
11:06<user_>why. im talkin about debian 10 rn
11:06<piper>yes mariadb
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11:08<piper>apt update; apt install mariadb-common libreadline5 mariadb-server-10.3 mariadb-server-core-10.3 libdbd-mysql-perl libmariadb3 mariadb-client-10.3 mariadb-client-core-10.3 -s and take a look
11:08<user_>where is the difference between mysql and mariadb
11:08<piper>but, i use sid, your version might be different
11:08<user_>1000% sure that this wont be faster
11:09<piper>user_: do your own homework, google is your friend
11:09<user_>i did. nobody can tell me a real reason. everyone just copy pasta.
11:10<piper>first hit own my search
11:10<tarzeau>user_: mariadb got forked of mysql because they went re-licensing/commercial
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11:10<user_>thats the only difference_
11:10<tarzeau>Oracle! likewise with java, they started charging money for their plastic pet language
11:11<tarzeau>user_: no of course not. Oracle claims theirs is better, fatter, faster
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11:11<piper>user_: you have been hear many times, you know the routine
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11:11<tarzeau>if you buy products from Uber, Sony, verizon: you waste money on Oracle:
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11:12<user_>nice fact, didnt knew that
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11:12<tarzeau>oracle destroyed sun. sun destroyed next. and objective-c, but apple recovered and saved NeXT.
11:13<user_>so basically oracle got fucking rich because thei made java and minecraft is a popular java game, right?
11:13<tarzeau>user_: oracle didn't make java, gosling did. oracle just bought sun. java is dead (it was born dead)
11:14<piper>next is like 1988 or so iirc
11:14<tarzeau>you know on what the first graphical web browser was developed on? and doom?
11:14<piper>after jobs left apple
11:14<tarzeau>piper: sure, but it's still alive in macOS (called Cocoa.h, which is FoundationKit and ApplicationKit, and a bunch of more things)
11:14<user_>on linux
11:14<piper>tarzeau: i come from the days before the browser :)
11:14<tarzeau>piper: with the gray mode replaced with light and dark modes
11:15<tarzeau>piper: irc is also older, and i'm also older than web browsers
11:15<piper>well, my kids are older also (then browsers)
11:15<tarzeau>user_: on linux? no linux didn't exist by then
11:16<user_>what. what os did they use
11:16<tarzeau>user_: NeXTSTEP :)
11:16<user_>I dont know a os called nextstep
11:16<tarzeau>user_: which later got portable for intel, hppa, sparc and their m68k original (OPENSTEP)
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11:17<tarzeau>user_: check some screenshots and
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11:18<user_>this looks like windows 95
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11:18<EmleyMoor>With ffmpeg, how can I create a file containing video only, no sound, from one with sound?
11:18<tarzeau>user_: because microsoft windows95 copied the 3d effet from NeXT
11:18<piper>And SLS, from which Debian is derived, and Yggdrasil, for Slack. Considering, Yggdrasil was the the first distro out there, and SLS, the second, if i remember and i still have floppies
11:19<tarzeau>user_: it's older than windows 95 (by 7 years)
11:19<user_>couldnt next sue microsoft for copying the theme
11:19<tarzeau>user_: no
11:20<user_>why, isnt there anything like a license
11:20<tarzeau>user_: because bill wanted money, and steve the best
11:20<user_>i dont like apple
11:21<tarzeau>user_: steve would not improve his company, by sueing microsoft
11:21<tarzeau>user_: i don't care if you like apple or not. you know?
11:21<EmleyMoor>Graham Taylor didn't like orange <g>
11:21<user_>no but i want to say with that, that apple sucks because its so pricey for no reason
11:21<tarzeau>user_: if you can count, you will see microsoft is more pricey than apple
11:22<user_>then compare android against apple ios
11:22<tarzeau>sure, android is the worst piece of shit software i've ever seen
11:22<tarzeau>who would pay something for crap?
11:22<user_>android is awesome, so much freedom because its linux
11:23<user_>you can do so much stuff, like even running a vm inside a fucking phone
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11:24<user_>why is apple loosing customers? because they give a shit about the poor guys and want the rich guys paying thousands of dollars for a pc with worse power than a notebook
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11:26<tarzeau>google sucks because it's collecting so much data that is not their business
11:26<user_>has nothing to do with android
11:26<tarzeau>user_: are they losing customers?
11:26<tarzeau>user_: android is a product of google
11:26<tarzeau>and security wise, it's the worst
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11:27<user_>yeah.. no. A stock android has no google apps and not even a single trace of google
11:27<user_>And the security is not worse, its the freedom that makes it so vurnable. if the customers are dumb, its not secure because of so much freedom that apple does not give
11:27<GyrosGeier>we're close to people realizing why free software was made in the first place and that all the license zealots actually have a point
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11:27<GyrosGeier>another two years maybe
11:28<user_>android is open and free, ios is not. see?
11:28<tarzeau>what do you expect in two years to happen? alle the ubuntu people realize even more spyware in snaps, and no sources for it?
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11:28<Nolan09>I agree
11:28<tarzeau>user_: what car manufacturer shares you the plans for their motor/electronic internals?
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11:29<user_>no idea, tell me
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11:30<GyrosGeier>tarzeau, more like "we rebuilt Windows, it looks like Windows, behaves like Windows and we have as little control as we had on Windows"
11:30<tarzeau>user_: microsoft is not open and free either, not even their horrible fonts
11:30<tarzeau>GyrosGeier: ?
11:30<user_>yes, but we are talking about android
11:30<GyrosGeier>tarzeau, :/
11:30<user_>i dont like windows either, but android is god
11:30<tarzeau>ah, yeah redhat systemd :)
11:31<GyrosGeier>tarzeau, if you are as old as me, you have seen the same programming paradigms become en vogue multiple times
11:31<tarzeau>the death of debian menu files, and introduction of broken app extensions with .desktop files
11:31<tarzeau>78 here, and i never liked
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11:32<user_>why not answering anymore? did you realise that apple is shit
11:32<wow_>Hello everyone, I'm fairly new here and don't know if this is the right channel for my question. If not please forgive me. Just wanted to ask if someone tried to install Debian 10 (netinst iso, verified) on VBox 6 and got the following Error: "the failing step is: select and install software". I just cant get it to work with either installer (graphical / non graphical) It always tells me this after the mirror is fetched and it tries to install the software (Gnome
11:32<GyrosGeier>component architectures work if you have a large company with a lot of people working on fixing bugs, lots of fuzzing and people willing to follow up on reports
11:32<tarzeau>user_: i don't care if i'm getting banned. GO FUCK YOURSELF (2 weeks of holidays thx bye)
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11:32<user_>heh, destroyed an apple fan lol
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11:35<jhutchins_wk>wow_: Have you verified the checksum of the iso you downloaded?
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11:35<wow_>Yes and also the .sign file
11:35<wow_>Used SHA512
11:36<jhutchins_wk>wow_: I installed Buster on 6.x/W10 without any problems.
11:36<jhutchins_wk>This is stretch on vbox.
11:36<wow_>Is there a way to see what actually crashed / diddn't work ? I can only save a screenshot from the message above without any log information
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11:39<jhutchins_wk>wow_: I believe you can use Alt-F2 or Ctrl-Alt-F2 to switch to a console screen. Might be a different Fx key.
11:39<piper>tarzeau: yeah, but android is more popular than microsoft & linux put together, i make my own custom roms, never would by iphone due to customization, like linux, it's my phone :) :P
11:39<jhutchins_wk>piper: That is not on-topic for #Debian support.
11:39<piper>jhutchins_wk: sure, peg me but not above, who gives a fuck
11:40<wow_>jhutchins_wk: will try that immediately, thank you!
11:40<piper>jhutchins_wk: you can ban me also
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11:41<piper>this is why debian gets a bad rap
11:41<GyrosGeier>because we try to keep the channel on topic at times?
11:41<piper>jhutchins_wk: where were you for all the parrot and kali shit above
11:42<piper>GyrosGeier: is your name jhutchins_wk
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11:48<jhutchins_wk>wow_: Just upgraded to 6.10 and while I'm not running an installer my VM started up just fine.
11:48<wow_>jhutchins_wk: Got the Console open now via CTRL+ALT+F4 and it says Errors were encountered while processing libgtk-3-0:amd libcanberra-gtk3-0:amd apt-config-icons initramfs-tools
11:49<jhutchins_wk>initramfs could be a problem.
11:50<jhutchins_wk>I don't know if aptitude -f install or dpkg-reconfigure -a would be helpful here.
11:50<wow_>Do you know if I can scroll up / down in that console? Page-Up /Down doesnt seem to work
11:50<wow_>Just gives a "[[6~"
11:51<wow_>At the Top I see a "no Space left on Device" error, don't know if that has something to do with it
11:55<jhutchins_wk>wow_: Yeah, that would kill the install.
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12:01<wow_>jhutchins_wk: It's a 10GB VDI file, I can't scroll all to the top bit it's a "spam" of no Space left on device for mkdir /var/tmp/mkinitramfs_...
12:02<wow_>I'll try a 20GB file and see if it changes anything
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12:11<wow_>jhutchins_wk: The installation is already further than before and also just finished the software installation step. Strangely it gave me more options for the "whole disk installation" before it was just -> all in one partition. Now it was the usual three options
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12:15<lolcat--007>hey someone can send me the link where i can download the firmware iso image of debian 10
12:16<dpkg>Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>.
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12:17<jhutchins_wk>lolcat--007: /msg dpkg installer firmware
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12:18<jhutchins_wk>Looks like I have stretch on 14G
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12:18<jhutchins_wk>... only using 5.8
12:19<lolcat--007>jhutchins_wk: wait a minute non-free mean propietary drivers or free drivers
12:21<Minatrix>ist hier jemand der sich mit PI-Hole auskennt?
12:22<piper>nein #debian-de ?
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12:27<piper>Minatrix: Du solltest vielleicht mal nachsehen
12:28<wow_>To double-check my assumption with the 10GB file I just tried it again and it hung at the same problem from before. So the 20GB file did the trick. Many thanks jhutchins_wk!
12:28<jhutchins_wk>lolcat--007: I believe it's non-FOSS drivers.
12:29<jhutchins_wk>lolcat--007: Or more accurately firmware, not drivers.
12:29<wow_>Funny enough the VDI file isn't even half full at that state but whatever
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12:30<bittin_>Will miss Debian Day Stockholm tommorow, due to being sick, but might join on Saturday if i feel better then kinda boring as i helped planning since end of July :(
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12:40<bremner>what is the gnome bit that says OS updates are available, and how do I kill it?
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13:05<annadane>bremner, seems to be related to
13:05<annadane>i'm not sure specifically how you kill it though
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13:06<bremner>I could remove the package?
13:06<annadane>i guess you could... i don't use GNOME
13:06<bremner>ah. gsettings. not nice.
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13:07<sqrt{not}>bremner: part of gnome-software package and its depends
13:07<annadane>if you installed gnome via task removing it may well wipe half your packages
13:08<EmleyMoor>If I was going to buy a WiFi interface (USB. PCI or PCIe), is there one that performs well with minimal setup on Debian?
13:08<bremner>I suppose it's a dependency of gnome-core
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13:09<jhutchins_wk>EmleyMoor: Not easy to predict. Manufacturers are known to change chipsets without updating model numbers, so what worked well last month might be crap this month.
13:09<sqrt{not}>bremner: correct on the depends
13:10<EmleyMoor>jhutchins_wk: Oddly, that is exactly why I asked...
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13:10<sqrt{not}>bremner: also some settings in dconf under gnome:software but not very clear how to achieve what you ask
13:12<jhutchins_wk>EmleyMoor: Scrolling through the MicroCenter page I see TP-Link which I've never heard of, and Asus which has a good reputation and is seldom a topic here.
13:12<jhutchins_wk>(Which implies that either nobody uses it or they don't have problems with it. I've had good luck with Asus.)
13:13<annadane>i would assume update notifiers are split in two with debian: that "update-notifier" package which presumably gnome and gnome based desktops have (?) and what i use on xfce which is package-update-indicator
13:15<jhutchins_wk>EmleyMoor: Prices range from $7.99 to $79 for what looks like the same item.
13:15<EmleyMoor>jhutchins_wk: Partly why I'm hoping someone finds me one in their spares box
13:17<EmleyMoor>Shame the one I found in mine didn't work in a satisfactory manner
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13:29<Alphabet>Ok, I have a machine which only boots in uefi Mode (I checked this) booted into Debian, turned the machine off, unplugged the drive, restarted, not booting ofc, replugged the drive and it WONT boot anymore?!?! How the heck is this even possible?
13:30<sney>does it boot if you get the boot menu popup at post? f8 for some, varies by mfg
13:31<sney>it may be trying to be "clever" and auto removing the entry for the drive that you unplugged
13:32<Alphabet>Moor, after post it flashes the menue and then „reboot and select proper boot device...“
13:33<Alphabet>Moor = nope, I am on my smartphone now
13:33<sney>boot with a usb stick?
13:33<Alphabet>Sney wait what, remove it from the mainboard memory?
13:34<sney>I've never seen this particular issue so I'm just speculating.
13:34<Alphabet>Sney i only have a openbsd Stick here which i cannot boot this Hardware from sadly
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13:35<Alphabet>I read something in an arch forum about somebody who had that problem and he also asked WHY this was happening without any answer
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13:35<sney>go into the efi setup and see if you can tell it explicitly to boot from your drive with debian on it, rather than hoping it will auto-detect
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13:35<Alphabet>And i am no computer scientist/OS pro, but unplugging and replugging a device should not alter anything of the machine s state
13:35<Alphabet>Like a automata
13:36<sney>one would hope, but sometimes motherboard mfgs do stupid things
13:36<sney>it's all black box stuff too
13:37<Alphabet>Sney yes, it even detects the drive and shows which boot type (uefi) is is, but the name ist the drives name not. (As it was earlier) „Debian“
13:37<sney>that seems to support the idea that when you unplugged it, your efi cleared the entry
13:37<sney>it will need to boot again for the efi to label it "debian" again
13:38<Alphabet>ok , by booting again you mean plugging any bootable usb stock in, or...? I am kinda lost at the moment, sorry
13:38<sqrt{not}>Alphabet: you said you restarted once with the drive not connected, which is probably when it "forgot" that information
13:39<sney>this ^
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13:39<sney>you *should* be able to force it to boot the debian drive anyway.
13:39<Alphabet>This is insanity on part of the MB manufacturer/supporter
13:39<sney>maybe check settings, disable secure boot if it was enabled by default
13:40<sney>there really should be a standard instead of "oops it's different every time"
13:40<Alphabet>You cannot unplug drives like this anymore without quite the hassle
13:40<sqrt{not}>yes, this is why many people just disable the UEFI stuff
13:40<Alphabet>I... I am in disbelieve holy cow
13:41<Alphabet>So what should happen if I boot from a usb device? Because it seems I will have to do something and I dunno what exactly
13:42<sney>if you can boot from a linux usb device, you can get into the debian drive with chroot and re-run the bootloader install. this will *probably* get things back to normal
13:42<Alphabet>Secure boot is deactivated anyway
13:43<Alphabet>Alright, this doesn’t sound too messy and/or difficult
13:43<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
13:43<Alphabet>Still cannot believe that I am not allowed to switch drives in and out to man liking
13:43<Alphabet>Sney thx for the tutorial
13:44<Alphabet>Just gotta get a Linux stick from somewhere, only this Computer with USB port in the house (yes I know that tinkering without backup is stupid)
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13:45<sney>install disc will work too if you have one
13:46<Alphabet>Yeah I thought so but no ODD, worst case I drop by my neighbors or disassemble a broken laptop for its ODD
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13:51<meeh>pro tip, use legacy mode to install your os when ever possible. its more reliable than uuid
13:53<Alphabet>Yeah well, I have configurated too much in my main OS to reinstall it on legacy
13:53<Alphabet>That would be even more pain than what I am in now
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13:54<Alphabet>But yeah, I have quite the bad experience with (u)Efi so far
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14:03<Posterdati>Please help, is there any oolite like game in buster???
14:05<sney>from a quick google, you can probably run oolite in debian
14:05<Posterdati>sney: yes I know... I would like to have something apt-able
14:06<sney>there are not a lot of games in the archive. low demand I think
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14:06<sney>package it yourself and get it sponsored *shrug*
14:06<Posterdati>for amarok too
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14:07<piper>it's in sid backports
14:08<piper>Posterdati: use strawberry
14:08<meeh>you could download and compile it from source
14:09<piper>Posterdati: strawberry is as close to amarok as your going to get ;)
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14:12<judd>Bug in wnpp (open): «ITP: strawberry -- an audio player and music collection organizer fully based on Qt5»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-11-06; last modified: 2018-11-06.
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14:13<meeh>why is compiling taboo, still decades later after compilers practically debug for you
14:16<udstx>Old to Debian New to Buster and am struggling to find common programs. It looks like I need to manually install specific packages. Does anyone have a suggestion for a package manager that I can select multiple packages and then install them at once. It looks like in Buster, you install them one at a time.
14:16<jhutchins_wk>meeh: It's not taboo, but not recommended for people who are still having trouble with apt.
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14:17<meeh>apt works
14:17<piper>meeh: i compile, i made my own deb, but i use siduction not pure debian
14:17<sqrt{not}>udstx: I like aptitude. you will have to install it first, but it will let you browse, and select a list, then install all at once
14:17<jhutchins_wk>udstx: As always, you can pass a list of packages to apt-get, aptitude, or apt and it should resolve the whole request.
14:18<meeh>if you want a gui, there are a couple
14:19<meeh>snyapse (Spelling that wrong)
14:19<pastor>Need help. I work with three monitors, working perfectly, but when I restart the computer a dastelas does not light up. I used lxrandr I press save, but when I restart the computer. Back to just two screens ...
14:19<udstx>Thanks - That is what I have used previously. Any idea why Buster does not come with that by default. Buster looks to me like it is targeted to the Windows - End-user.
14:19<dboles>what buster comes with by default kinda depends on what desktop option you chose
14:19<pastor> 14/5000 two screens ...
14:19<dboles>gnome i presume?
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14:20<pastor>yes ... 10
14:20<meeh>I use mate
14:20<meeh>Synaptic Package Manager
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14:22<udstx>Thanks all, I am playing with Buster (making a cloud server) before I start deploying it over Stretch to customers. I need things like LAMP, C/C++ compilers etc.
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14:24<meeh>it works just fine
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14:26<pastor>has anyone had this problem in kde?
14:26<jhutchins_wk>udstx: Servers should not have a GUI.
14:27<jhutchins_wk>udstx: ... which is part of why synaptic is not a default package. GUI wrappers for package managers end up being very resource intense, and experienced users do system management from the CLI.
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14:28<pastor>alguém trabalha com três monitores no kde?
14:29<udstx>mine are all headless & cli, but I am on an exploration to see what Buster runs like not deploying a real server. I want to look at NextCloud to consider changing from OwnCloud.
14:29<pastor>does anyone work with three monitors in kde?
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14:30<talmeida02>hi @pastoe
14:30<talmeida02>hi @pastor
14:31<pastor>,hi tal
14:31<bremner>what's the best practice for enabling passwordless login in gnome? I read about hacking /etc/pam.d/gdm-login on the arch wiki
14:32<pastor>Need help. I work with three monitors, working perfectly, but when I restart the computer a dastelas does not light up. I used lxrandr I press save, but when I restart the computer. Back to just two screens ...
14:32<sarnold>talmeida02: btw most irc clients let you tab-complete nicknames :) try sarn<tab> and see if the rest is completed :)
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14:33<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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14:41<meeh>did you try sacrificing a microsoft product to it?
14:41<meeh>maybe burning a windows 95 disc to appease it
14:42<bremner>what are you on about?
14:42<meeh>lol sorry, someone is having issues with their 3 monitor combo mess
14:42<meeh>and i'm referencing monty python
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14:43<sarnold>not four monitors, not two monitors, excepting that you then proceed to three monitors..
14:44<EmleyMoor>sarnold: five is right out!
14:45<meeh>and upon the 3rd monitor though shall put thy power plugin in. Though shall count to three, and hence three though shall count
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14:55<EmleyMoor>Just found a long-missing USB stick in the ironing basket... that implies it's been through the wash. I hope it's the resistant kind
14:56<annadane>your lolcats are now ruined
14:56<EmleyMoor>Wow, it's mounted - actually faster than before!
14:56<meeh>USB sticks are awesome
14:57<meeh>even the really old ones work after being washed, dried, chewed on by a puppy
14:57<dboles>a clean usb stick is a fast usb stick
14:57<meeh>this is a usb stick this is my gun, this one is for work and this one is for fun....
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14:58<EmleyMoor>I think it's awaiting rewriting to a new version, but the whole reason I hoped to find it is so that my partner can have a play with some Linux stuff this weekend
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14:59<sarnold>very clean, can mount quickly without all the grime
14:59<meeh>when in doubt, boot it out
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15:01<Posterdati>piper: anyway clementine is better
15:02<piper>Posterdati: strawberry is a more modern/up to date fork of clementine
15:02<annadane>the fact a puppy could chew on it without swallowing it is a small miracle
15:02<annadane>what about "surgically removed from the stomach of a puppy"
15:02<piper>but it's your box choose what you like :)
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15:05<meeh>Hang on, I have MSDN account, let me install WIndows Vista for you
15:06<meeh>or better yet.. Windows ME
15:06<piper>annadane: :)
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15:10<piper>:) we have to cool it before the gods of irc intervine
15:11<meeh>User Friendly is very pro linux :)
15:13<coruja>!tell piper -about ot
15:14<annadane>why do people even use -about, dpkg still sends you a message
15:14<bremner>the rest of us don't see it?
15:14<coruja>because i looked up the command syntax
15:14<annadane>...oh. lmao.
15:14<annadane>i'm stupid
15:15<piper>coruja: i don't get those tere blocked )
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15:17<annadane>wait, that doesn't make sense, what do mean the rest of us don't see it
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15:18<annadane>!tell annadane about frankendebian
15:18<annadane>it doesn't show up here
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15:19<piper>i block it, and people too now :)
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15:38<sqrt{not}>!tell annadane -about shock
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15:45<jhutchins_wk>The tell command can be tricky when you use ! to trigger it.
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15:46<bremner>!ask, !tell ?
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15:49<annadane>dpkg: tell annadane about kali
15:49<annadane>dpkg: tell annadane -about parrot
15:49<annadane>yeah, i don't see the difference
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15:50<user_>Как поправить раскладку после установки Debian 10 Buster?
15:50<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian ( (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
15:50<bremner>or try asking in English
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15:58<mac>there is someone?
15:58<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
15:58<annadane>there are 601 users in the side bar
15:58<annadane>yes, there is someone
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16:00<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
16:00<annadane>i give up
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16:47<AciD`>hey guys
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16:48<AciD`>what would be the best way to move a /home/folder to another new ssd (nvme) ? rsync while logged as root ?
16:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 609] by debhelper
16:50<Vergo>boot in single user mode or with a live cd, that way nothing is being locked in the old location, rsync should then do fine or even cp -vax
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16:52<AciD`>I planned to use `rsync --dry-run -azvh /home/ /mnt/newHome` (without the dry run) after a reboot without logging why my user, and using alt+f1 to use the root account
16:53<sney>well, --dry-run will cause rsync to only simulate changes, and you don't need -z when going from local disk to local disk, but otherwise that's the right approach
16:53<sney>no need for a livecd
16:54<AciD`>perhaps I'll add the H option for hardlink and A X as well
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17:00<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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17:43<alphabet>so I had the problem with disconnecting the debian drive and my machine not booting from it after reconnecting it, so I had to reinstall grub
17:43<alphabet>anybody got an idea how to avoid this in the future beseide NOT do unplug the drive?
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18:00<coruja>do you use uuid for mountpoint entries in fstab and grub?
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18:34<rant>annadane: because you're telling yourself.. the -about stops it from reciting to you what it told someone
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22:12<rob_debian>Hi all, please, how to use dtrace tools in debian ? I've installed 'systemtap-sdt-dev', 'systemtap' but no of them present a man page for study.
22:13<rob_debian>And it seems 'dtrace' itself only belongs to sid repository. Is that possible running dtrace tools in stable version without going to sid one ?
22:15<rob_debian>oh, 'dtrace' package is in testing version
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22:51<annadane>rob_debian, the man page you're looking for is in stable, and there's also apparently a perf-tools-unstable package
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22:53<rob_debian>Hi annadane, thank you for attention :) In fact, I coudn't find it. I will read it now, really thank you and nice to see you after a long time of My absence here. But I never forgot about You!
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 16 00:00:55 2019