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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-08-26

---Logopened Mon Aug 26 00:00:09 2019
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00:05-!-dboehmer___ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
00:06<nvz>Guest767: you mean manually turning a screen off or it going into power save mode on its own?
00:07<nvz>tom: what? I can't understand you.. DO-YOU-SPEAK-A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N?
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00:09<tom>nvz, The channel for Debian development in english. Not the support channel
00:10<nvz>tom: yes, #debian-devel IS an english speaking channel :P
00:10<nvz>which is why I was making a joke about English vs American
00:10<tom>oh that's weird
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00:10-!-redentor is "realname" on #debian-mx #debian-es #debian-next #debian
00:10<tom>It wasn't showing up in the list
00:11<tom>now it is
00:12<nvz>probably cause you sounded like you were sucking on a plum.. saying pip pip and cheerio..
00:12<nvz>damn foreigners.. come to this country and can't even talk american :P
00:12<tom>nvz, there is a difference. en-gb and en-us
00:13<tom>color colour
00:13<tom>football football
00:13<nvz>yeah.. I am well aware.. hence the making fun of it
00:13<nvz>yes well they are just dumb on that one.. clearly thats soccer
00:14<nvz>I dont see them playing in their bare feet!
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01:39<Guest767>nvz: Both cases. Anything that turns the screen off, including doing "lock screen" in GDM.
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02:47<Guest767>I posted in the forum if anybody has any ideas:
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02:58<rackspace>How are you
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04:20<inimatha>qkyy ]=FDOAL
04:21*ksk writes that down..
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05:25<nvz>Guest671: that doesnt make much sense to me right off cause tjose are all diff mechanisms with nothing in common
05:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 616] by debhelper
05:29<nvz>Guest671: this only happens at login screen? only effected by one monitor? multihead setup? what are the connections? is it a laptop? what video card and driver? anything at all odd like dp to hdmi adapters, multihead over network, non stock kernel, 3rd party drivers or software?
05:29-!-Guest782 [~AdminUser@] has joined #debian
05:29-!-Guest782 is "Debian Live user,,," on #debian #bash
05:30<Guest782>sudo dpkg -i netselect_0.3.ds1-26_amd64.deb
05:30<nvz>lemme see if i cam get a signal on laptop doin all tjat on mobile is a pita ;p
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05:31-!-bluewater is "Trevor Walkey" on #aptosid-dev #aptosid-docs #aptosid #debian-next #debian
05:31<Guest782>how to solve the dependency issue above?
05:35<GyrosGeier>I have an xz image on a LVM LV
05:35<GyrosGeier>now I'd like to shrink the LV to the image's compressed size
05:35<GyrosGeier>is there a sane way to do that?
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05:36<nvz>Guest671: first thing you need to do is apt update cause your cache is stale
05:36<nvz>,v netselect
05:36<judd>Package: netselect on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.ds1-26; bullseye: 0.3.ds1-28+b1; buster: 0.3.ds1-28+b1; sid: 0.3.ds1-28+b1; stretch: 0.3.ds1-28+b1
05:37<nvz>Guest671: orare you on jessie?
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05:37<nvz>,depends netselect -release jessie
05:37<judd>(depends <packagename> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>]) -- Show the packages that are listed as 'Depends' for a given package. By default, the current stable release and amd64 are used.
05:38<nvz>,depends netselect -release oldoldstable
05:38<judd>(depends <packagename> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>]) -- Show the packages that are listed as 'Depends' for a given package. By default, the current stable release and amd64 are used.
05:38<nvz>,depends netselect --release jessie
05:38<judd>Package netselect in jessie/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0.
05:38<nvz>,v dpks
05:38<judd>No package named 'dpks' was found in amd64.
05:38<nvz>,v dpkg
05:38<judd>Package: dpkg on amd64 -- jessie-security: 1.17.26; jessie: 1.17.27; stretch: 1.18.25; bullseye: 1.19.7; buster: 1.19.7; sid: 1.19.7
05:38*nvz is typing like crap even on the laptop :P
05:39<nvz>Guest671: apt policy | nc 9999
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05:43<Guest782>nvz: but works now after update
05:44<nvz>Guest782: you were trying to manually install a jessie package?
05:44<nvz>Guest782: also it seems you're missing sources
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05:45<nvz>Guest782: according to that apt policy output you only have "deb buster main" in your sources
05:45<nvz>which means you're putting your system at risk
05:46<Guest782>this is a live cd
05:46<Guest782>that is what is there
05:46<nvz>I see..
05:46<nvz>well then yeah.. you should update first before installing crap on a dated read-only media :P
05:47<nvz>I'm guessing based on the live, guest nick.. you're roughing it on hardware you don't own?
05:48<Guest782>yea i am testing thing
05:49<Guest782>you mean this live cd is outdated?
05:50<nvz>anything that is static is outdated the minute you get it :P
05:50<nvz>I personally prefer to take two thumbdrives, put a netinst on one and install onto the other rather than do a live
05:51<nvz>I'm not a big fan of the live media
05:51<nvz>you still will get out of date if you dont use it often.. but its easier to make persistent changes
05:52<nvz>anything you do on a live media, is back to the way it was next time you boot
05:53<nvz>I don't see live media as anything more than a quick demonstration for people who just want to download something and see what it looks like and if it runs on their hardware.. I dont find them good to use as install media or on a regular basis for anything
05:53<Guest782>that's a good idea
05:56<nvz>last I installed with one, which was less than 6mo ago the resulting install was twice the size of what it'd be with a normal install media. It installed every imaginable translation and language tool there was
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05:57<nvz>they are just something to satisfy n00bs who want to quickly see what the system is like without installing and if it works on their hardware out of the box.. other than that they're useless as tits on a snake
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05:59<annadane>as useless as what?
05:59<nvz>y'know.. tits on a snake..
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06:02<nvz>I shouldn't have to explain that.. heh.. snakes don't breast feed and dont like being messed with :P
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06:26<coruja>nvz, live media are quite useful for system maintenance which you can't do from the running system itself, like chrooting, pertitioning etc
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06:28-!-Fortram is ""The future awaits."" on #debian
06:28<nvz>can do all that with a system installed to a thumbdrive more finely tuned to your needs
06:29<nvz>instead of like a lot of people apparently do, messing with rebuilding a live image
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06:31<nvz>if we didn't have cheap flash drives and usb booting, live images would still be useful in a cd/dvd only world.. but less and less systems even have optical drives
06:31<coruja>for those rare occasions i need live media, the ones offered by the distributions will do fine enough
06:32<nvz>more useful in this age would be images of a normal system not configured like its being run on a read-only media
06:32<nvz>with limited storage
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06:33<nvz>most readily available removable storage these days is 8-32GB thumbdrives.. and the larger ones are slowly becoming more common even
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06:34<nvz>we should shift to making images more like armbian does
06:35<nvz>that extend to fill the drive's capacity and are a working normal system rather than some squashed things pretending its readonly
06:36<nvz>wasting resources on a ramdrive thats not needed
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06:48<Mo7Qt0>Who can help me with my question?
06:48<Mo7Qt0>Have a server with debian 9.9 and postfix+dovecot+amavis-new.
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06:49<Mo7Qt0>I'm try again))
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06:49<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
06:49<Mo7Qt0>Have a server with debian 9.9 and postfix+dovecot+amavis-new.
06:49<Mo7Qt0>The problem is that amavis trying to send mail to himself mailbox witch missing (amavis@newmail.mydomain.localnetwrk)
06:49<Mo7Qt0>an attempt to send mail is carried out by a script /usr/sbin/amavisd-new-cronjob witch serves for training spamassasin.
06:49<Mo7Qt0>I tried to create a mailbox with name amavis, but after creating mailbox, mail stops going to recipients.
06:49<Mo7Qt0>Not understandable - is spamassassin learning and how to fix this error?
06:49<sep>Mo7Qt0, enter is not a substitute for . , ; :) try not to anger the bots
06:50<Mo7Qt0>links to pastbein is accessible?
06:51<Mo7Qt0>sep: okay thx =)
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07:13<nvz>Mo7Qt0: for future ref, use or i.e. pipe to | nc 9999
07:13<nvz> is a nasty site.. js, popups, cookies, ads..
07:16<Mo7Qt0>corrected =)
07:17<nvz>that wasnt strictly necessary but it helps.. keping your question clear and using a proper paste makes it less stress on potential supporters.. I for one don't know a whole lot about this area
07:19<nvz>Mo7Qt0: from what I can grok of this though the log seems to show some obvious issues.. something called qmgr is removing the message , something called bounce is sending a non-delivery notification and the more significant message to me seems to be auth-worker saying unknown user..
07:20<nvz>which is probably the source of the issue, its not being delivered because there is no one there to deliver it to
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07:21<nvz>Mo7Qt0: the sql() bit suggests to me that its looking up users in a db.. which is prob seperate from unix users.. and the user amavis apparently isnt in that db
07:22<Mo7Qt0>nvz: yep, but if a create user amavis, mail stops being delivered to user's mailboxes =(
07:22<nvz>Mo7Qt0: so the mail IS being delivered here?
07:22<Guest783>Hi there is no device/partition to choose from on Partitions page during graphical <Install Debian> run. I want to install into one particular partition on one of the 2 disks.
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07:23<nvz>Guest783: can you give a bit more zoomed out view of this issue.. what media are you installing from, what sorts of disks are there?
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07:25<Guest783>nvz: I downloaded iso and installed into a partition and install from there.
07:26<nvz>Guest783: we have hundreds of isos
07:26<nvz>and you still are not mentioning what sort of disks there are
07:27<nvz>I could say I downloaded the Debian 10 netinst iso, burned to a thumbdrive, trying to install to my sata ssd
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07:27<nvz>with the information you've provided all I can tell you is you have no disks in the system
07:28<nvz>Guest783: or you are lacking drivers for whatever odd hardware you have..
07:28<Mo7Qt0>nvz: Without the amavis mailbox, incoming mail is delivered to the user's mailboxes. If I create an amavis mailbox, the incoming mail is drowning in that mailbox.
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07:29<_kab>Is there any way to throw additional hints at apt-get's dependency resolver? I'm running apt-get dist-upgrade and one package remains in the kept back state. Running apt-get install <package> directly will resolve the problem. I assume it does that because one of the dependencies is now from a different architecture. aptitude upgrade works correctly.
07:30<Guest783>nvz: one disk i believe is SSD, other one is /dev/sda I am not sure what it is.
07:30<nvz>Mo7Qt0: I don't quite understand how it all works.. I'm just trying to spitball what I can deduce.. I see no mention of any user BUT amavis here.. seems to me like you're sending mail AS amavis and its going back TO amavis.. now I realize this is a spam filter thing.. so idk myabe thats how it works
07:32<nvz>Mo7Qt0: but the only success I see from amavis is on the relay inbound line.. seems like thats the message going out.. which seems odd its scanning in and out.. but w/e.,. its coming back in thats the problem something is apparently configured to send it through amavis but amavis doesn't exist to sent it to
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07:32<nvz>Mo7Qt0: so what I'm thinkin is you need to create amavis in that db and then deal with whatever errors arise from that.. cause right now we're not seeing those errors and if mail is in fact being delivered now, its not going through amavis it would seem
07:33<Guest783>nvz: the iso is not netinst iso. it is one of desktop isos debian provided.
07:33<Guest783>i forget the name
07:34<nvz>Guest783: ok so you have no idea what kinds of disks you have.. what kind of machine is this? is it baremetal? is there some kinda VM involved?
07:34<Guest783>not VM
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07:35<nvz>Guest783: is the machine running now in the installer? is it connected to the internet? what kind of machine is it? desktop? laptop? anything you DO know about it?
07:36<Guest783>yes a laptop
07:36<nvz>ok well it must be something special if its a laptop and has more than one disk
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07:37<nvz>thats not how most laptops are configured.. they usually only have one disk
07:37<Guest783>i can see one is mmc that is not regular HD
07:38<Guest783>another is /dev/sda
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07:38<nvz>so you DO see drives in the partitioner?
07:38<nvz>you said you didnt see ANY drives in the partitioner
07:38<nvz>Guest783: does that seem like what you're using?
07:39<Guest783>i said that on <Partitions> page in <Install Debian> graphical installer.
07:40<nvz>yeah well that makes no sense to me
07:40<nvz>I've been using debian since 2.2r6 Potato, thats like 18 years.. I've installed MANY times and I never seen pages or anything like you've described
07:41<nvz>nor do I understand how you dont see anything yet are quoting /dev/mmcblk and /dev/sda
07:41<Guest783>what kind of installer you use then?
07:41<nvz>I use the debian installer..
07:42<nvz>idk what all this <Partitions> <Install Debian> means
07:42<nvz>this is why I asked WHICH install media you are using so I can try follow what you're doing
07:43<Guest783>let me try to upload an image somewhere...
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07:43<nvz>Guest783: if you are using some Debian 10 media we have a mini, netinst, dvd-1, all of those with -firmware, and then we have various -live images with and without firmware
07:43<nvz>but any of them if you choose from the boot menu, Graphical Install you are getting the same interface
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07:48<Guest783>nvz: here is debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-lxqt.iso
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07:51<nvz>Guest783: thats me running through the debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-cinnamon.iso I had here in a vm up to the partitioning step
07:51<nvz>Guest783: that look familiar? what did you do from that point?
07:53<nvz>Mo7Qt0: any thoughts? Seems to me that your issue is with amavis.. if you dont create the amavis user and debug from that point the problem is fairly obviously that the amavis user doesn't exist and amavis isnt working on incomming mail
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07:59<Mo7Qt0>nvz: I think I must create mailbox for amavis, but ... I don't know where I can tell to amavis login and password of mailbox ... if need it ...
07:59<Mo7Qt0>nvz: I'm using virtual mapping with mysql for users. I suspect what mailbox for amavis was created with system user during package installation.
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08:00<nvz>Mo7Qt0: typically virtual mapping is totally independant of unix accounts i.e. with samba
08:00<nvz>the passwords would be in the db where the virtual user is
08:01<nvz>Mo7Qt0: but the issue as of right now seems to be the lack of amavis being in that db, once you add that user you can see what the logs say and go from there but you're debugging from the wrong point it seems
08:02<nvz>Guest783: are you still alive or what? :P
08:02<Mo7Qt0>nvz: but where in amavis config I must note password?.. (if I can this)
08:04<Mo7Qt0>I'll see more information later. Maybe there’s a solution.
08:05<nvz>Mo7Qt0: you may also server yourself to head to freenode, I seem to be the only supporter here right now, there seem to be more people active on freenode right now..
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08:05<nvz>Mo7Qt0: I have experience on Debian but not with any of this stuff you're using.. I'm just winging it :P
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08:06<nvz>prp-e: you need help with something?
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08:07<prp-e>nvz, I asked in #debian-kbsd channel, but it seems nobody is there :D
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08:07<nvz>Mo7Qt0: idk if you're familiar with freenode, but its the larger support community.. it predates Debian moving here to OFTC
08:08<nvz>prp-e: yeah well, I dont hang out there so idk.. is the issue specific to kbsd?
08:08<prp-e>nvz, This is what I asked "Is there any documents on how to put the *BSD kernel in a GNU userland? I am curious about how it happened in Debian GNU/k*BSD distros. ".
08:09<prp-e>just in case of being curious about the operating system building process.
08:10<nvz>Mo7Qt0: this snippet from appears relevant
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08:13<Kent1402>Hello.. I have a question.. last time when I tried to create a swap file with '# fallocate' command showed that the terminal did not recognize that command
08:14<nvz>prp-e: well that doesn't sound like an immediate support situation.. you may have better luck sending that out to the mailing lists to reach a wider audience and get a reply back
08:14<Kent1402>but when I tried like '# /usr/share/bin/fallocate 3G /swapfile' it created the swapfile
08:14<Kent1402>I was wondering, what's wrong with debian 10? Last time I tried to do so with debian 9.8, it was easier
08:14<prp-e>Yeah, I think so. Thanks nvz .
08:15<Mo7Qt0>nvz: understood. Thank you for help! Try this setting later and answer here. Highly appreciate your help!
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08:16<nvz>Kent1402: you are smokin eggnog.. that command wouldnt work either way
08:16<nvz>Kent1402: fallocate -l 3G /swapfile
08:16<nvz>fallocate alone is too few arguments and without the -l its too many
08:17<lupine>I probably wouldn't use a sparse file for swap
08:17<lupine>ISTR that being recommended against
08:17<nvz>I use dd to create swapfiles
08:17<Kent1402>ugh ok i might forgot to add that in this chat section, however during that situation i made the swapfile and proceed to add it to the system as a swap in the end, however what bugs me is that i had to type the full path to the fallocate
08:18<Kent1402>i was wondering how can I prevent such thing like this to happen again?
08:18<nvz>dd bs=1G count=3 if=/dev/zero of=/swapfile && makeswap /swapfile && swapon /swapfile
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08:18<Kent1402>it's just quite bothersome to always type the full path to the corresponding command program :(
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08:19<nvz>Kent1402: idk what you're doing but its wrong
08:19<nvz>Kent1402: aside from using the wrong command, and the wrong arguments for it, its in the wrong place.. which is why its not working without absolute path
08:19<nvz>,file bin/fallocate
08:19<judd>Search for bin/fallocate in buster/amd64: util-linux: usr/bin/fallocate
08:19<nvz>,i util-linux
08:19<judd>Package util-linux (utils, required) in buster/amd64: miscellaneous system utilities. Version: 2.33.1-0.1; Size: 1037.2k; Installed: 4327k; Screenshot:
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08:20<nvz>in Debian which you dont seem to be using, its in a REQUIRED package util-linux under /usr/bin/fallocate which is in $PATH
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08:51<Mo7Qt0>nvz: It seems this is not what me need. =( - db using for data
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08:54<SigmaScape>Silly question, has anyone done an upgrade from 9.9 to 10 on a production server running ispconfig
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08:58<SigmaScape>Or would I be fine still using 9.9 for the moment until I absolutely need to upgrade to 10.0 or even 10.1?
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09:43<ovrd>i am in emergency mode
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09:48<grove>ovrd: Why are you telling us that?
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09:50<nvz>ovrd: you seat cusion may be used as a floatation device
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10:02<ovrd>the udev get sys signal
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10:03<nvz>ovrd: if you're attempting to write a poem, you're not very good at it
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10:07<ovrd>the udev get sys signal, what deos that mean?
10:09<nvz>it means absolutely nothing
10:09<nvz>if you are trying to communicate an issue you're having you should tell us the error verbatim
10:16<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:46<sqrt{not}>nvz: the visitors who complain that administrative commands are not in their path anymore, are probably suffering from the change of su command (even if they find some version of their command in odd locations) and might benefit from reading:
10:49<nvz>sqrt{not}: don't think so.. its not in the path because its not in the right place
10:50<nvz>sqrt{not}: if you notice they said they typed /usr/share/bin/fallocate which is not where fallocate is in debian and that is not in path on any version of debian
10:51<nvz>they were not using debian
10:51<nvz>debian doesnt have a /usr/share/bin
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10:58<sqrt{not}>yes, yes, that's why I said (... odd locations) but if they used `su` correctly they might find the correct version of the binary
10:59<nvz>I don't think so.. odd locations and locations that don't exist are two different things
11:00<nvz>sqrt{not}: /usr/share/bin/ is an ubuntu thing
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11:01<sqrt{not}>who knows what mix of things they have added to their system. if it is a debian system underneath, they would benefit from a proper path sending them to the official binary, instead of them poking around and finding somthing similar
11:02<nvz>I am not supporting mixes of anything.. I support Debian, and that wasnt a debian issue
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11:03<sqrt{not}>sigh... the change of su IS a debian issue
11:03<nvz>yes well this has nothing to do with su
11:05<sqrt{not}>if the user was aware of the proper way to become root, they would not have the problem. if they are using su the old way, they have this problem
11:05<sqrt{not}>the su command changed in buster, thus some users need to learn that
11:05<piper>you can get around that and still use su :)
11:06<nvz>well you go ahead and inform users of that... this user however wasn't using debian
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11:06<sqrt{not}>so you *assume*
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11:06<nvz>there is nothing in that wiki to suggest that this can somehow make paths that don't exist
11:07<nvz>ls: cannot access '/usr/share/bin': No such file or directory
11:07<sqrt{not}>the question is getting the root user to execute the "official" binary, not preventing users from installing all kinds of crap in strange other directories
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11:09<nvz>Debian uses the FHS
11:09<nvz>the /usr/share is not for programs and doesn't contain a /bin/
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11:10<nvz>it contains read-only stuff like documentation, icons, and such
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11:11<nvz>if you wanted to talk about su, and path, and all that you could've chimed in at the time.. I'm not going to change how I do things based on nonsense. I told them that its the wrong command, wrong arguments, and wrong path, and I said they are not using debian and they did not say otherwise
11:12<nvz>I even told them how I create a swapfile
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11:12<nvz>that was all I'm ever going to do.. I'm not going to sit there and get to the bottom of stupid crap people who are lying to me do
11:13<nvz>they quoted that command and said it worked.. it did not.. couldn't have.. its invalid syntax for debian's fallocate
11:13<nvz>some other fallocate may accept that syntax, debian's doesnt
11:14<sqrt{not}>good thing you never make any typos on IRC
11:14<nvz>you apparently never heard of Occam's Razor or don't understand how to apply it
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11:15<sqrt{not}>right, lying is the most likely explanation
11:15<nvz>simply its the simplest explaination is the correct one.. more elaborated its the answer with the fewest assumtions is correct.. and you can get into more detail but thats all you need to know to apply it here.. the least assumptions is to assume its not debian based on many proofs
11:16<nvz>the proof that the command doesn't work in debian, the path doesn't exist in debian, there are a million spinoffs, those users have irc clients that still connect to debian channels by default..
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11:16<nvz>and the user didn't argue when I said you're not using debian
11:16<thsnr>nvz: the user said that they are using debian 10 and had used fallocate before on debian 9.8
11:16<nvz>your theory however has to assume 1) they made typos 2) they are using debian 3) they have an issue with su which they may not have even been using.. etc
11:17<thsnr>i too find it more likely that had installed another fallocate (maybe via make install or smth) nad proper usage of su would have directed them to the debian one
11:17<nvz>thsnr: ok well that does make a little more sense..
11:17<sqrt{not}>my theory is that the majority of visitors who complain of things no longer found in the path when they somehow become root, would benefit from the link I offered
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11:18<meeh_>make everyone root, problem solved
11:18<meeh_>security smacurity
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11:18<nvz>sqrt{not}: and I'll keep that information in mind, but I am not dissatisfied with my free support in that case.. I thought about mentioning altering path but didnt because they were using the wrong command for the job, had some weird shit going on.. it just didnt seem prudent to solving the actual issue at hand
11:19<nvz>sqrt{not}: though to be fair it was what they asked.. I'll grant you that
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11:19<nvz>they were specifically asking about path.. I was just focused on properly making a swapfile
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11:19<sqrt{not}>sure, and someone once said: there's more than one right way to do it
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11:20<nvz>I heard there is more than one way to skin a cat.. but w/e :P
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11:20<meeh_>yeah and half of all divorcees would say, i wish i would have just said NO
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11:23<nvz>sqrt{not}: I'm a little drunk right now.. not trying to be an ass its just I'm not in the right mode to be altering my methods right now.. when I'm in an altered state of consciousness I don't allow myself to change cause I know I'm more susceptible to nonsense. I do hear you on the su thing and I wasn't aware of it.. and for me the bottom line for the case in point is, I was the only one here this morning..
11:23<nvz>our support works better when there are others to pitch in
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11:23<nvz>sqrt{not}: I was trying to help with some postfix+dovecot+amavis thing ffs, and I never used any of those
11:23<nvz>just because nobody else was around
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11:25<sqrt{not}>it's OK, you did help that visitor. just being aware of that link might help some other visitor
11:27<sqrt{not}>that exchange was during sleep time in my personal timezone. Had I been awake I would have chipped in that wiki link
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11:28<nvz>well we have a factoid for it <buster su>
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11:28<nvz>dpkg, buster su?
11:28<dpkg>The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable so commands normally available to root are not found. See for workarounds.
11:30<nvz>dpkg, buster su =~ s#found.#found. Put ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes in /etc/login.defs to get an approximation of the old behavior.#
11:30<dpkg>nvz: OK
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11:35<nvz>sqrt{not}: but to my slightly intoxicated eyes nothing in that wiki entry suggests that paths to binaries would be changed only that they'd be inaccessible due to differences between root and user path variables and fallocate isn't a sbin binary
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11:35<nvz>its in the users path to begin with
11:37<nvz>and /usr/bin is in both root and user paths
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11:42<sqrt{not}>yup, that's right. so that user had more problems than just that one factoid.
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11:53<nvz>sqrt{not}: I still stand by it couldn't have been debian unless they totally FUBARRED it.. cause the package that provides fallocate is a required package and should've worked no matter how mangled the path was
11:53<nvz>if they couldnt access /usr/bin they couldn't do anything
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12:00<wannabe-mirror>just bought a book scanner but i'm sorry that it doesnt have any linux drivers
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12:01<nvz>have you tried it to see if the kernel/xsane understands it?
12:02<sarnold>wannabe-mirror: are you checking the scanner company's website? or are you checking if SANE supports it?
12:03<wannabe-mirror>hold on a second...
12:05<wannabe-mirror>it presents itself as device file with the name "media1" when i plug it
12:05<nvz>wannabe-mirror: is it USB?
12:05<wannabe-mirror>it is
12:05<nvz>whats the line from lsusb say?
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12:06<wannabe-mirror>hold on. i'm testing it with my windows laptop...
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12:06<nvz>if its connecting to a device node its supported by the kernel
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12:07<wannabe-mirror>but the manufacturer is not listed at the sane project
12:07<nvz>it may not work as a scanner
12:07<nvz>it may work as a camera or something
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12:07<wannabe-mirror>well... it might actually BE a camera
12:07<amacater>Who is the manufacturer?
12:08<wannabe-mirror>Bus 003 Device 050: ID 0c45:6366 Microdia
12:08<nvz>the /dev/media1 suggests its more a camera than a scanner to me
12:09<wannabe-mirror>google say there is a microscope with the same device id
12:10<wannabe-mirror>but yes, this is essentially a camera mounted over a table. i figured this is what book scanners are
12:10<nvz>well then fire up cheese and see if it works :P
12:10<wannabe-mirror>compared to an ordinary copying machine or a scanner, this setup does not damage the books as much
12:11<nvz>the kernel is supporting it, its all just a matter of finding software that does something with it
12:11<nvz>cheese is a dead simple camera software that supports photos and video with a gui
12:11<nvz>,i cheese
12:11<judd>Package cheese (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: tool to take pictures and videos from your webcam. Version: 3.31.90-1; Size: 343.5k; Installed: 661k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
12:12<jimpop>,i monit
12:12<judd>No package named 'monit' was found in buster/amd64.
12:12<jimpop>Hello, what happened to the monit pkg, it's in stretch and buster-backports. I did a stretch->buster upgrade and have monit v1:5.25.2-3, but that pkg doesn't exist on p.d.o
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12:13<nvz>,v monit
12:13<judd>Package: monit on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.9-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:5.9-1+deb8u2; stretch: 1:5.20.0-6; buster-backports: 1:5.26.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:5.26.0-1; sid: 1:5.26.0-1
12:14<nvz>jimpop: obviously it got dropped from the release
12:14<sqrt{not}>it is in buster backports
12:14<jimpop>so where did/does v1:5.25.2-3 come from?
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12:14<ksk>jimpop: "apt-cache policy monit"
12:14<wannabe-mirror>it's alive! ALIVE!
12:15<jimpop>ii monit 1:5.25.2-3 amd64
12:15<amacater>stretch backports, possibly?
12:15<amacater>Dropped from buster close to releaase, updated package goes into buster-backports??
12:17<jimpop>well that is confusing
12:18<nvz>jimpop: cat /var/log/dpkg.log | nc 9999
12:18<jimpop>so it was automatically removed because a script that generates email for humans?
12:18<sqrt{not}>the buster backport is directly from bullseye it looks like
12:18<jimpop>nvz, not gonna do that
12:18<wannabe-mirror>seriously. we solved the issue faster then the windows drivers installed. you rule!
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12:21<nvz>jimpop: well then idk what your issue is.. but I think we covered all the bases.. you seem to have an alien package manually installed and you know it was removed prior to buster's release and why..
12:22*jimpop goes to see if devuan has monit
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12:25<jimpop>nvz, the issue is that a stable pkg was removed from stable without a valid reason or explaination.
12:25<jimpop>if you have info that suggests otherwise, please link it
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12:26<nvz>no, it wasn't
12:26<nvz>a testing package was removed from testing
12:27<jimpop>and testing became stable
12:27<nvz>after it the package was automatically removed from testing
12:27<jimpop>i think I'm more concerned that apt would let an orphaned pkg remain on the system
12:27<nvz>then it was added back after release via buster-backports
12:28<jimpop>imagine that happening with a php lib or apache
12:28<nvz>thats not an orphaned package, thats a package installed by a third party
12:28<jimpop>backports is not a solution, it's a bandaid
12:28<nvz>it doesn't match any debian version
12:28<jimpop>it's not a 3rd party pkg
12:28<nvz>yes, it is.. apt-policy doesnt know where it came from, there is no debian package with that version
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12:29<jimpop>it's a debian pkg, installed on stretch, that is left orphaned when stretch is upgraded to buster
12:29<nvz>stretch's CURRENT version of that is only 5.20 so how did you get 5.25 from stretch?
12:29<jimpop>exactly my question
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12:30<jimpop>my best guess it that in the stretch->buster upgrade it existed and was upgraded, and then the pkg was removed
12:31<bremner>at some point 5.25.2-3+deb10u1 was in testing-proposed-updates
12:31<thsnr>jimpop: when did you upgrade from stretch to buster? before buster was stable?
12:31<bremner>nothing to do with stretch though
12:32<jimpop>thsnr: when buster was released
12:32<jimpop>specifically that very day
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12:39<jimpop>Buster was relased on 6-Jul-2019, apparently my stretch system updated monit:amd64 1:5.25.2-3 in April-2019
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12:40<jimpop>so it's odd that stable (in April 2019) had a higher number ver of monit than listed on p.d.o
12:40<bremner>it sounds like you had testing in your sources.list
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12:41<jimpop>nope, never on a production server
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12:42<bremner>well. I guess we're at an impasse
12:42<jimpop>how many other impasses exist like that? This obviously should be a great concern to folks.
12:42<bremner>I can't make sense of what you're reporting by looking at
12:43<jimpop>me either
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12:43<jimpop>it's like a pkg was release to end-users and there is no record of it
12:44<bremner>or just operator error.
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12:44<jimpop>or do you mean me?
12:44<bremner>you or someone else configuring that server
12:45<jimpop>no one else has access
12:45<jimpop>and i rarely upgrade pkgs manually
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12:45<thsnr>jimpop: you can check the packages snapshot at
12:46<thsnr>monit was 1:5.20.0-6 on stretch in april
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12:47<jimpop>on all mirrors?
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12:48<thsnr>so you are saying that a mirror uploaded the wrong version and faked the apt signatures instead of some user error on your end?
12:48<jimpop>i just find it odd that there is no references for the version i have, other than in a proposed-updates (which would/should never make it to
12:49<thsnr>that version was in testing at that time
12:49<jimpop>do we know the time window for that?
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12:50<thsnr>[2019-02-27] monit 1:5.25.2-3 MIGRATED to testing, [2019-06-28] monit REMOVED from testing
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12:51<jimpop>and stable was released on 6-Jul
12:51<jimpop>~ 1 week after [2019-06-28] monit REMOVED from testing
12:52<thsnr>the maintainer probably did not want that version to become stable
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12:52<jimpop>so where is the prev version?
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12:53<thsnr>the stretch version is still in stretch
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12:53<wannabe-mirror>have you got any software in mind for scanning books with a camera like this? ocr would be great
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12:58<jimpop>is it possible that monit v1:5.25.2-3 was a security update?
12:58<judd>Bug in src:monit (closed, security, upstream): «monit: CVE-2019-11454 CVE-2019-11455»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-04-23; last modified: 2019-08-10.
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13:00<jimpop>oh god, that bug report makes me regret installing monit
13:03<thsnr> does not seem to contain monit nor can I find a DSA for those CVE
13:05<thsnr>seems those were not fixed in stretch:
13:05<jimpop>it's it odd then that the bug report incudes the Security Team throughout it?
13:05<jimpop>*is it odd...
13:06<jimpop>also, udd for the maintainer lists it as a security issue
13:07-!-blu [~blu@2a02:2149:8425:8000:6168:a649:9bb6:1a11] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:08<jimpop>so the "fix" was to pull it from buster and not update stretch, and then release a new version to testing. Oh Boy!
13:08<jimpop>correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like everything NOT to do with a CVE
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13:12<bremner>wannabe-mirror: I have heard good things about ocrmypdf, but no personal experience
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13:40<wannabe-mirror>is there any way to adjust fan speed on laptops? i certainly don't intend to shut them down, but quite the opposite, run them at full speed regardless of the cpu tempereature
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13:55<jhutchins_wk>,v fancontrol
13:55<judd>Package: fancontrol on amd64 -- jessie: 1:3.3.5-2; stretch: 1:3.4.0-4; bullseye: 1:3.5.0-3; buster: 1:3.5.0-3; sid: 1:3.5.0-3
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14:14<jhutchins_wk>,v bookworm
14:14<judd>No package named 'bookworm' was found in amd64.
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15:02<denisbr>,v opencart
15:02<judd>No package named 'opencart' was found in amd64.
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15:12<meeh__>you could just download the files, unzip it like most folks
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15:16<denisbr>meeh__, it´s for me?
15:16<meeh__>you are talking about OpenCart
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15:22<denisbr>meeh__, Yes, I´m thinking to try packager the OpenCart
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15:29<bremner>should I be worried about mce: [Hardware Error]: PROCESSOR 0:906ea TIME 1566847531 SOCKET 0 APIC 4 microcode 96
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15:35<oo_miguel>can I use /etc/rsyslog.conf to control which messages show up in dmeseg?
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15:35<oo_miguel>or do they arrive their from some different source?
15:35<oo_miguel>(I am talking about messages generated by the iptables -j LOG target)
15:36<oo_miguel>in particular
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15:39<sarnold>bremner: rasdaemon may be able to give you a more understandable description of that. I've never seen a *good* machine check exception..
15:40<bremner>maybe I should run memtest86 overnight
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15:56<sqrt{not}>bremner: Don't know about the hardware error, but this web page seems to say you could get newer microcode:
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15:57<bremner>ah, indeed this box doesn't have intel-microcode installed. That's probably not ideal.
15:59-!-magu [] has quit [Quit: Gateway shutdown]
16:00<somiaj>though it is still shortly after the release, but newer microcode is often in backports, sometimes needed.
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16:02<sqrt{not}>it looks like this specific updated microcode is for intel SA-00233 covering 4 related CVEs
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16:04<sqrt{not}>and it looks like intel-microcode (3.20190618.1) does include the fixes
16:05<sqrt{not}>I mean the intel-microcode package in stable
16:07<annadane>,v intel-microcode
16:07<judd>Package: intel-microcode on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 3.20180807a.2~deb9u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20190312.1~bpo9+1; jessie-security/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb9u1; stretch-security/non-free: 3.20190618.1~deb9u1; bullseye/non-free: 3.20190618.1; buster/non-free: 3.20190618.1; sid/non-free:
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16:07<user>France ?
16:07-!-user is now known as Guest815
16:07<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec.
16:08<Guest815>tu est fr
16:08<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
16:08<annadane>c'est canal est en anglais
16:08<annadane>il y a un #debian-fr
16:08<annadane>ou #debian-quebec
16:08<annadane>comme dpkg a dit
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16:10<bremner>I think you mean !suivant ;)
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17:11<PearlSek>is there things I should try doing if I want to fix a problem in debian
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17:11<PearlSek>it says it cannot run in framebuffer mode
17:12<PearlSek>but not sure if this is supposed to be enabled
17:12<dboles>what cannot run?
17:12<dboles>what is "it"?
17:12-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
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17:13<PearlSek>doing startx
17:13<PearlSek>I accidently installed debian w/o KDE
17:13<PearlSek>so I installed kde-full
17:13<PearlSek>but doesn't seem to work
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17:15<PearlSek>"please specify busIDs for every framebuffer device"
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17:21<sqrt{not}>PearlSek: try installing: task-kde-desktop
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17:22<sqrt{not}>PearlSek: (and then you probably should reboot)
17:22<PearlSek>already installed
17:23<sqrt{not}>did you reboot since that install ?
17:23<PearlSek>I must be cursed in some way because every step of my install did not work somehow
17:23<PearlSek>gonna do it again but yes
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17:24<sqrt{not}>maybe some of those "did not work" might be the problem
17:24<PearlSek>I mean I eventually solved them
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17:24<PearlSek>they were in the installer
17:25<PearlSek>and I managed to have a working install of the OS
17:25<PearlSek>just no kde because no x
17:25<PearlSek>and no x because ???
17:25<coruja>PearlSek, if you want real support, we need some more than your diffuse problem description
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17:25<coruja>log files, error messages etc
17:25<PearlSek>yea, I realize it's hard to help me like that
17:25<PearlSek>I'll try to find something
17:26<PearlSek>I'll brb
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17:48<sqrt{not}>the Doctor is ON
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17:55<un214>ugh; still got bad graphics problems
17:56<un214>I replaced the overloading card with a brand new GEForce1030
17:56<un214>and console works but X doesn't
17:58<un214>this channel isn't normally this quiet
17:58<sarnold>it comes and goes
17:59<un214>does a failed AcpidSocketPath cause no video output?
18:01<ovrd>udevd got a sys singal
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18:02<un214>ovrd ?
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18:03<ovrd>un214 what ?
18:04<un214>you said udevd got a sys signal and I couldn't understand what you meant
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18:06<ovrd>udevd got a sys signal
18:09<cc>[ 1012.379] (EE) Failed to load module "nv" (module does not exist, 0)
18:09<cc>seems like a fairly obvious problem?
18:09<cc>fix your xorg.conf
18:10<cc>and/or install packages
18:11<un214>well I don't know that line's a red herring but loaded glxserver-nvidia which is more like what it's supposed to be using
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18:12<un214>I'm going to try uninstalling the broken nouveau modules
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18:13<un214>nope--uninstalling xserver-xorg-video-nouveau tries to take out all X11
18:14<cc>in general, anything involving a modern nvidia GPU on linux starts with 'uninstall and blacklist all of the nouveau crap'
18:14<cc>unless you are hell-bent on the free/libre part of it
18:14<cc>in which case good luck
18:14<cc>(you'll need it)
18:14<un214>can't uninstall nouveau on buster
18:14<cc>blacklist the module
18:14<Fraggle>i had to reactivate nouveau today with the new kernel in testing :(
18:15<un214>cc got instructions for blacklisting nouveau?
18:15<sney>nouveau should blacklist automatically if the nvidia driver was installed via apt
18:15<cc>create a file /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
18:15-!-semeion [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:15<cc>containing a line "blacklist nouveau"
18:15<cc>thats it
18:15<Fraggle>un214: apt install nvidia(legacy)driver normally blavcklists nouvreau automatically
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18:16<un214>that's already there; it seems to be the xorg driver that's being bad
18:16<sney>I don't see any fatal errors in this log, what happens visually?
18:16<un214>no output
18:16<Fraggle>cc: not neccessary IMO if you use the debian packages
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18:18<sney>it unloads nouveau at line 190 so that's not the issue. (xorg tries to load a lot of drivers when it initializes, this is normal.)
18:18<Fraggle>the nvidia driver stopped working today for me after the testing kernel update
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18:18<sney>that's not a shock as nvidia takes their time updating for ABI changes. but shouldn't affect a system running buster.
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18:21<sney>un214: could try manually setting the resolution in xorg.conf instead of letting it auto-detect. black screen can sometimes be the gpu trying to set a mode that the monitor doesn't support.
18:21<ovrd>sytemd-ermergency mode
18:21<un214>I checked with xrandr; it picked the right resolution
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18:22<un214>I've had really bad luck trying to key xorg.conf resolutions in; it wants a bunch of parameters that don't make sense for non-vga but bad values still hose it
18:22<un214>overscan should be 0 on a display port right? nope!
18:23<un214>but the monitor goes into powersave mode once switching to a vterm with X on it
18:23<sney>you should only need a Display subsection under Screen, overscan and stuff will autodetect if you leave it blank.
18:23<un214>it's actually live enough to type commands into and click with mouse
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18:31<un214>hmmm this line is omnious: using 24576.00MB of virtual memory
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18:34<cc>un214 laptop or desktop?
18:34<un214>but I only have 16GB physial RAM
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18:35<cc>post your current xorg configs if any
18:36<cc>post lspci -nnk
18:36<cc>post lsmod
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18:40<sarnold>debina is a soccer player :)
18:41<un214>lol at my typo
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18:41<cc>un214 the xorg config that you posted - what file is that
18:42<cc>xorg.conf or inside conf.d ?
18:42<un214>inside of conf.d
18:42<piper>un214: do you know how to enable experimental repo ?
18:42<un214>currently the only file inside of conf.d
18:42<piper>that card doesn't need a xorg conf
18:43<un214>correct; I was advised a solution might be to force the resolution
18:43<piper>rm -f /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf (or any other name you have for it)
18:43<piper>apt purge nvidia. (Make sure you *include* the period, this will delete all of nvidia blob)
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18:44<cc>replace the contents of the file with this and restart x
18:44<piper>apt update; apt install nvidia-driver nvidia-driver-libs nvidia-settings nvidia-kernel-dkms vulkan-utils
18:44<un214>guys I don't have a scrollback buffer
18:44<ovrd>udev got a sys signal
18:45<piper>cc: stop with the xorg bullshit it's been extinct for years
18:46<cc>I am not sure what you mean, but what you've been saying seems extremely wrong all along
18:46<piper>cc: yeah whatever you say
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18:46<cc>same to you
18:46<user888>Does anyone know why udev (or something related to udev) broadcasts out to the network for SNMP devices everytime I plug or unplug my mouse?
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18:49<un214>lemme guess reinstall the drivers is a reboot
18:49<piper>un214: what have you done so far
18:49<un214>apt-get purge nvidia. and apt-get install all the stuff
18:50<un214>ran apt-get update earlier today
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18:50<un214>the file to delete doesn't exist
18:50<piper>un214: where did you put your xorg.conf
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18:51<piper>rm it
18:51<un214>it's gone
18:51<un214>for some reason reportbug thinks my kernel is newer than the one in the repo
18:51<piper>when you did apt purge nvidia. did you see all being removed
18:52<piper>then installed what i posted above
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18:54<un214>back after reboot; Xdm is still blakc screen
18:54<un214>pretty sure what X :1's going to do
18:55<piper>un214: are you using kde (plasma)
18:55<piper>so you know the next question right
18:55<piper>gnome, xfce ?
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18:57<piper>been a damn long time since i used that whats the output of lspci | grep VGA
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18:58<un214>10:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP108 (rev a1)
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18:59<un214>I'm starting to think that guy with "udev got sys signal" was onto something
18:59<ovrd>sytemd ermegnecy mode
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19:00<ovrd>udevd got sys signal
19:00<un214>but I still can't seem to understand it
19:01<ovrd>un214 man 7 signal
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19:02<un214>I cheked; Xorg doesn't notice when I unplug the monitor
19:02<un214>xrandr still shows it connected
19:03<piper>un214: did you make any udev rules at all ?
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19:04<un214>is udev normally under /lib/systemd?
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19:06<piper>debian i believe is in /etc/udev
19:07<un214>yup there's a udev.conf there
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19:07<sarnold>/etc/udev is supposed to be for local configuration, /lib/udev is supposed to be packaged configuration
19:08<un214>btw the window manager is completely irrelevant; the login screen has no output
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19:12<piper>xdm in debian hasn't been updated since 2015-12-17
19:13<un214>X :1 ; DISPLAY=:1 xterm also yields no output
19:14<un214>all right, what do you do about udev getting a sys signal?
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19:17<cc>they guy has been going about the sys signal for a while, with no obvious meaning
19:17<cc>I don't think that was directed at you
19:17<cc>or at anyone in particular
19:17<gandalf_>I have a question about Debian Buster booting to a black screen with flashing underline cursor. Is this the right irc to ask such questions?
19:17<un214>it is the right IRC
19:17<un214>try Ctrl-Alt-F1 through F4
19:18<user888>I had the same issue before. It was my graphics card.
19:19<zero1976>installed an debian network install but no network so i have only basic now terminal screen ? can somebody help me out were 2 go from here to get grafic...
19:19<un214>ok that was weird
19:20<un214>Monitor turned off and wouldn't turn back on until I toggled to the dead X on F7 and back to the console session on F2
19:20<un214>I think I need to disable powersave
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19:20<gandalf_>ok, thanks. Ive been using Buster for about a week with my nvidia card with no issues. i installed an AMD radeon R7 240 and it now it boots to black screen with blinking cursor. I then wiped the drive and did a fresh install with the AMD radeon ard and it still boots to a black screen with blinking cursor. what can I do to try and track down the issue? thanks.
19:21<sarnold>did you remove the nvidia?
19:21<sarnold>do you have an onboard video you need to disable?
19:22<un214>AMD radeon is an onboard video card
19:22<gandalf_>i never installed nvidia driver on the fresh install. i disabled the onboard video
19:22<user888>did you try booting with nomodeset?
19:23<gandalf_>how do you boot with nomodset?
19:23<ovrd>i don't know
19:23<user888>one sec
19:23<sarnold>it'll be something like ^X at grub to edit your kernel command line, add nomodeset to the command line, and then another control-something to boot with new command line
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19:24<piper>e in grub
19:25<user888>This is for ubuntu but it's the same
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19:26<gandalf_>ok, thanks, ill try nomodeset. i need to shut this computer down, swap hard drives and reboot. i'll be back in a while with a status. thanks everyone for pointing me in the right direction.
19:26<user888>sure, np
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19:27<sqrt{not}>zero1976: do you mean your debian machine has no network hardware now ?
19:28<ovrd>systemd ermgency mode
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19:28<ovrd>udev got a sys signal
19:28<zero1976>it has but not auto reconised so i continue without
19:29<zero1976>now got basic .. terminal window when i boot the system
19:29<DEXTER2\jhudson>well that was disgusting
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19:29<un214>still no progress
19:30<zero1976>am not very gfamiliar with terminal commands
19:30<zero1976>it's a laptop i installed dual boot on seperate hd
19:31<zero1976>or second hd better said
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19:33<user888>zero1976 type "tasksel"
19:33-!-tdy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34<user888>it will give you the option to setup the DE assuming you have network up and running
19:34<zero1976>DE ?
19:34<user888>desktop environment
19:35<zero1976>not ready connected to the network is my guess
19:35<zero1976>ah thx
19:35<un214>ok gonna go buy new graphics card
19:35<un214>any recommendations?
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19:35<user888>2070 super seems to be a good deal but a but pricey
19:35<un214>need low power draw graphics card
19:35<user888>oh not sure then
19:36<zero1976>i did type tasksel
19:36<ovrd>9 to 10
19:36<un214>I pretty much just need a giant framebuffer with DMA
19:37<zero1976>no reaction
19:37<un214>the nouveau driver is completely utterly dead and the proprietry driver isn't working either for some unknown reason
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19:40<zero1976>gonna try install LMDE over Debian as dualboot
19:41<zero1976>then my network gets auto reconized
19:44<sqrt{not}>zero1976: OK, if you can get your network working, you will be much happier, and able to install anything afterwards, from the network
19:45<zero1976>yup thats why am going for lmde then it works for sure already try that thx anyways
19:45<sqrt{not}>zero1976: if that doesn't work, it is still possible to install things from a downloaded DVD
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19:52<sqrt{not}>zero1976: if you are dual booting with windows, make sure you disable the "fast boot" or "fast startup" option in its control panel
19:56<zero1976>oky thx for the head's-up
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20:01<sqrt{not}>!fast startup
20:01<dpkg>[fast startup] Windows fast startup will interfere with a dual-boot linux installation. Disable it with the instructions here:
20:02<zero1976>already got it working now setup buzy thx again sqrt{not}
20:02<sqrt{not}>OK, good job. drinks all around.
20:03<zero1976>internets working fine also :)
20:03<zero1976>yup drink all around ;-)
20:04<sarnold>solid plan
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20:13<gandalf_>I solved my boot to blinking screen issue... turns out it wasn't the video card but I didn't have grub configured properly. I must have clicked through the install and never selected the hard drive to load grub onto. seems that the default it to manually enter a drive as opposed to automagically choosing the drive that you just installed debian onto. my bad. uhhh. thanks for the help.
20:15<sarnold>gandalf_: thanks for reporting back :)
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20:21<gandalf_>Thank you for trying to help me... Now that I have this AMD Radeon R7 240 graphics card installed and booting I'm getting the notice that the video is "Running in software rendering mode". This is my firs AMD card and not sure the best way to setup it up (I have always run NVIDIA proprietary drivers). I've read that AMD open sourced their drivers and they are built into the kernel now, so you don't need to install anything else.
20:21<gandalf_>But based on the message im getting it seems that there are no AMD drivers running. Any thoughts on this?
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20:28<sarnold>gandalf_: I *think* what I recall hearing is that the amdgpu stuff in the kernel still needs a firmware blob to load or something similar to that; do you have such a blob?
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20:38<sqrt{not}>!radeon firmware
20:38<dpkg>Binary-only firmware for the radeon <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-linux-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance in the <radeon> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. This is not required for use of the <fglrx> driver.
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20:44<gandalf_>dpkg: thanks. is this what you are talking about?
20:44<dpkg>sure thing, gandalf_
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20:47<sarnold>looks about right
20:47<blast007>gandalf_: dpkg here is a bot, by the way
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20:48<dpkg>Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics processing units are supported using the open source "radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about <radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver, ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from (i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian, please go to #ati on
20:48<cc>this seems outdated
20:49<cc>isn't amdgpu the go-to thing nowadays?
20:49<sqrt{not}>that "ati" factoid last update in 2014
20:49<lhvf[m]>Hi, not interupting the conversations about AMDGPU, I've to say that (not related to Debian Development) I've read in some placed on the Internet recently (maybe OMG!Ubuntu) that Ubuntu 19.10 will come with the option to install on the Ubuntu Installer (ubuquity). Similar with ooenSUSE, with resource of auto-updating the nVidia Proprietary Driver automatically linking to a newer installed Linux Kernel is already on it Distribution there is some
20:52<cc>gandalf_ firmware-linux-nonfree is the package that will install the necessary blobs for amdgpu
20:53<cc>lhvf[m] I have no idea what you're asking tbh
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20:56<lhvf[m]>> Hi, not interupting the conversations about AMDGPU, I've to say that (not related to Debian Development) I've read in some placed on the Internet recently (maybe OMG!Ubuntu) that Ubuntu 19.10 will come with the option to install on the Ubuntu Installer (ubuquity).)[...] *the proprietaryNVIDIA's Driver* (I lacked on my text..)
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20:57<lhvf[m]>@cc :Isn't any question, just an affirmation mine.
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21:06<lhvf[m]>< >
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21:17<lhvf[m]>I've had sometime the opportunity to conversate with with @raveit65 at #mate @Freenode (the MATE Desktop GitHub General Developer and pusher). He have sais and ponderate that the experience with Fedora (Rawhide) is being terrible, with GPU Lockups/Hard Lockups with Nouveau, it's impossible to work with that.
21:17<lhvf[m]>He said to me that the only way to work with a Windows 10/DirectX 12 nVidia GPU Card, is to RPM Fusion Unofficial Fedora Repository, and relink with the Linux Kernel every time, to have a better experience with NVIDIA Recent Graphic Card (last Two years).
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21:22<somiaj>I don't see what this has to do with debian?
21:23<somiaj>debian isn't going to ship the non-free nvidia driver on their offical standard ever, due to the dfsg
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21:24<somiaj>as for the nvidia non-free blob, the debian nvidia packages do a good job at keeping the driver linked with the current kernel (provided the linux-headers for that kernel are installed)
21:24<somiaj>one does have to install this after the fact (not with the installer), but it works well. Though the drivers are a bit dated due to stable, newer ones are often provided via backports eventually)
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21:25<gandalf_>are the drivers in firmware-linux-nonfree open source?
21:25<somiaj>gandalf_: the nvidia non-free drivers are their own (large) collection of packages
21:26<lhvf[m]>[...] to conversate *with* @raveit65 at #mate @Freenode (the MATE Desktop GitHub General Developer and pusher). He have *said* [...]
21:26<somiaj>they are all in non-free though and not part of the firmware-linux-nonfree (there is more than just firmware being installed, there is also multiple kernel modules, and a full gl libary suite)
21:27<somiaj>gandalf_: yea, firmare-amd-graphics will contain firmware needed for radeon and amdgpu cards. Depending on the card firmware may or may not be required (and with new cards mroe often required than not)
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21:32<cc>gandalf_ the amdgpu stuff is open source and is already in kernel
21:32<cc>in other words, in linux-image-*
21:32<lhvf[m]>To link to that Support Room: I've a bad experience with Debian-Live GNOME 9.9.0, and (as with Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 -- forwarded to Kernel 4.11) , the 4.9 LTS Kernel is having the same problems: either running Google Chrome, or doing a loggoff, the X.Org crashes, and I'gotten a SystemD error on my screen (without a REISUB working effects).
21:33<gandalf_>somiaj, thanks
21:33<gandalf_>cc, thanks
21:36<somiaj>the driver is open source, but most cards either need non-free firmware to work or to do 3D remotely well
21:36<somiaj>use to be with radeon, the firmware was only needed for 3D, but I think most amdgpu cards now require firmware for even 2D
21:36<somiaj>(but yea, you already have the drivers, just need the non-free firmware in short)
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21:39<lhvf[m]>>[ and *Ive* gotten a SystemD error on my screen (without a REISUB working effect at all, [ dead the LiveDVD Session without the possibility to reviver, I meant ] .]
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21:40<gandalf_>somiaj: that makes sense. I add the drivers and non-free stuff and it rebooted fine without warning me that im running in software rendering mode. is there any way to check that the AMD driver and firmware is actually installed and running properly?
21:40<lhvf[m]>> >[ possibility to *recover*, I meant ] .]
21:40<lhvf[m]>Sorry.. Riot.IM wrong suggestions..
21:43<gandalf_>blast007: sorry if I private messaged you. I didn't mean to... haven't used IRC in a while and still trying to remember the commands.
21:44<blast007>gandalf_: not a problem :)
21:45<cc>gandalf_ run glxinfo | grep -i direct
21:50<gandalf_>cc: GL_AMD_multi_draw_indirect, GL_AMD_performance_monitor, GL_ARB_depth_clamp, GL_ARB_derivative_control, GL_ARB_direct_state_access, GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex, GL_ARB_draw_indirect, GL_ARB_multi_draw_indirect, GL_ARB_occlusion_query2, GL_AMD_draw_buffers_blend, GL_AMD_multi_draw_indirect, GL_ARB_direct_state_access, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_draw_indirect, GL_ARB_draw_instanced, GL_ARB_enhanced_layouts, GL_ARB_map_buffer_r
21:50<gandalf_>ange, GL_ARB_multi_bind, GL_ARB_multi_draw_indirect,
21:51<somiaj>gandalf_: I check the Xorg.0.log for this perosonally to see what it detected and loaded.
21:52<somiaj>gandalf_: /var/log/Xorg.0.log or $HOME/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log
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22:02<cc>gandalf_ that is not what you are looking for
22:02<cc>typically, it is the very first line of output
22:02<cc>direct rendering: Yes
22:02<cc>or "No"
22:03<gandalf_>cc: thanks. Looks like I
22:04<gandalf_>cc: looks like I'm good! "4.717] (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled"
22:04<cc>that's not glxinfo though
22:04<cc>but looks right
22:05<cc>also, now that I think of it, it doesn't really look correct
22:05<cc>because in those logs it should say AMDGPU and not RADEON
22:05<cc>for new-ish cards anyway
22:06<lhvf[m]>I'm planning to install Debian-Live 9.9.0 on a Multi boot with multiple Persistencesk way on a Class 10 MicroSD Flash Card (GNOME or MATE, as I'm already aware that KDE is still getting bad with _nouveau_, even with *_Buster_* . It's MultiBootUSB that I'm trying to get to work.
22:06<gandalf_>cc: glxinfo says: direct rendering: Yes
22:07<gandalf_>cc: I have an older card 2014 vintage Radeon R7 240 2GB. Its a lower end older card
22:08<cc>if I were you I would try blacklisting radeon
22:08<cc>and try rebooting so that amdgpu gets a chance
22:08<cc>but, if everything is working for you, might as well not do it
22:08<gandalf_>cc: how do I blacklist radeon?
22:09<cc>blacklist radeon
22:09<cc>if things no longer work, just remove that file
22:13<lhvf[m]>> multiple *Persistence* way on a Class 10 MicroSD Flash
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22:19<gandalf_>cc: rebooting now. if im not back soon I couldn't reboot... :-)
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22:27<twb>Is there something like "nice" and "ionice", but for oom_score_adj ? I want to say to the OOM killer "please please PLEASE kill firefox, not X, when RAM is low"
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22:28<somiaj>is OOM killer actually killing X, I thought it usually went after the biggest memeory hogs
22:28<somiaj>which would be firefox in that example?
22:29<twb>somiaj: firefox is filling /dev/shm which oom killer can't "see"
22:29<somiaj>though I've only seen it work a few times, and it always took out the memeory hog that was the cuplrit of not having enough memoery
22:29<twb>somiaj: it used to work in jessie - firefox would die, and I'd move on.
22:29<twb>after a couple of upgrades, *something* changed and now the whole system hangs hard
22:29<somiaj>could you just limit the size of /dev/shm?
22:30<twb>somiaj: I do. Now the problem is mostly gone, and the tab crashes instead of firefox
22:30<twb>somiaj: scrolling too fast in XPDF can also trigger the problem
22:30<twb>somiaj: and very occasionally still happens in firefox-esr still
22:30<somiaj>is this some bug that /dev/shm is getting filled up, or are you just on limited memeory?
22:30<twb>I speculate this is because Xorg now runs as twb, not as root, so it is more vulnerable to deadlocks
22:30<twb>But that's just a guess
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22:31<twb>somiaj: ^ free & df
22:32<somiaj>twb: you can return to the old xorg if you want, I think there is an xorg-legacy package for this
22:32<twb>Actually... Xorg uses /dev/shm as well. So maybe the problem is even simpler -- that Xorg can't handle /dev/shm being full
22:32<somiaj>this removes the setuid xorg.
22:32<somiaj>arg, this reverts back to the old setuid xorg
22:33<twb>somiaj: I actually like xorg being unprivileged, apart from this one thing (which might not even be caused by unpriv xorg)
22:33<twb>It's the only reason I allow gdm on my netbook
22:33<twb>Otherwise I'd still be using xdm with a white-on-black theme instead of gdm's useless grey-on-grey animated crap
22:42<sqrt{not}>I have lots of swap, and I keep a text shell logged in on VT3; I usually have many many firefox tabs and "terminal" tabs, etc, open all the time; when it grinds to a halt swapping, i go to the text login and run top.
22:42<sqrt{not}>usually it is some firefox tab[s] that have decided they need to be 3 or 4 gigabytes, and I decide they can be killed
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22:47<twb>Anyway, y'all didn't answer my original question about oom score
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22:49<twb>BTW the "right" answer is probably to use firejail to run firefox in a namespace with its own /dev/shm that's small and separate from Xorg's, and also with a MemoryHigh= and MemoryMax= (both of which *do* count tmpfs/shm usage)
22:50<somiaj>ahh I didn't know about oom score
22:51<twb>somiaj: for many years, openssh-server has lowered its oom score adj on Ubuntu :-)
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22:53<twb>Let's just try writing my own... #!/bin/sh printf 1000 >/proc/$$/oom_score_adj; exec firefox-esr "$@"
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22:54<twb>That works for the master process.
22:54<somiaj>you could also remove xorg from the list too
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22:55<twb>...and the child processes inherit it.
22:55<twb>This seems like something that should be in coreutils already
22:55<somiaj>seems -17 removes things from being on the oom killer list
22:55<twb>somiaj: the oom score is a priority weighting from -1000 to 1000, similar to niceness rating from -20 to 19
22:56<somiaj>ahh sorry I was looking at oom_adj which is -16 to +15, with -17 being completey ignore
22:57<somiaj>at least form this webpage
22:57<cc>I'm guessing the reboot went well gandalf_ ?
22:57<twb>somiaj: sorry, to be clear, I'm talking about /proc/X/oom_score_adj. oom_score is old.
22:59<somiaj>yea, I got a page that talked about oom_adj when I looke dup oom score, didn't realize there were both different ways there.
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22:59<gandalf_>cc: had to step away for a few minutes... yes it went well. rebooted and everything seemed to work the same. Debian didnt tell me that it was in "software render mode"
23:01<cc>look at the same logs you did before and check if appropriate changes appeared
23:01<cc>also glxinfo
23:02<twb>Hey guess what I just noticed firefox-esr --no-xshm. No idea what it does *instead* if /dev/shm
23:02<gandalf_>cc: ok, I need to reboot again... be right back
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23:03<twb>Also incidentally I noticed that firefox-esr starts a lot faster if you run it in unsafe mode (i.e. with all the EFF plugins turned off)
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23:08<gandalf_>cc: glxinfo says: direct rendering: Yes
23:08<cc>and xorg.log ?
23:09<lhvf[m]>To Everyone: At the last Sunday, I've seen in some posts of @annadane on my *Riot.IM* (an Android IRC Client) is get some times anachrony in the order of the problems.
23:11<lhvf[m]>To Everyone: At the last Sunday, I've seen in some posts of @annadane on my *Riot.IM* (an Android IRC Client) is get some times anachrony in the order
23:11<gandalf_>cc: what should I grep for in the /var/log/Xorg.0.log file?
23:11<cc>direct rendering
23:12<gandalf_>cc: [ 4.649] (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled
23:12<cc>still wrong, oh well
23:14<gandalf_>cc: is the name of the blacklist-radeon.conf file critical? because I noticed that the other files in that folder are blahblah-blacklist.conf
23:15<cc>it is not
23:15<somiaj>all files that end in .conf are sourced
23:15<cc>as long as it ends in .conf it works
23:15<somiaj>though there can be issues if multiple files conflict
23:16<twb>OK I was just testing with oomnice'd firefox-esr trying to watch something on iview (government youtube). Unfortunately, firefox segfaulted before it was oom killed.
23:16<twb>...and I haven't installed systemd-coredumpd so I dunno where it segfaulted exactly
23:17<gandalf_>cc: ok, thanks for all of your help. At least its working now and no longer software rendering. And I learned a lot! thanks again.
23:17<twb>gandalf_: if you are asking about /etc/modprobe.d/*.conf, the value of * shouldn't matter much
23:18<gandalf_>twb: that what I was asking. thanks.
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23:19<twb>I thought the names might have to be IANA compatible (like "man run-parts"), but it looks like they can be anything (man 5 modprobe.d).
23:21<somiaj>though in general using strange characters and spaces in file names is bad.
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23:24<twb>FSVO "strange" = "totally normal for indians, but not part of ASCII"
23:26<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : Sorry to related.. To be certain, @thegrebs website showed all posts in the correct and in only forwarding direction, and maybe your current time fuse was getting to make due to a Riot Client anachrony in the order issues, and I got some phrases out if order (lost unless if searched) with the Riot.IM IRC Client (not an issue with Debian, but in Riot.IM IRC Client).
23:27<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : Sorry to late ..Argh.. Riot.IM Client wrong suggestions..
23:28<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : Sorry to be late ..Argh.. Riot.IM Client wrong suggestions..
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23:31<annadane>i have no idea wtf you're talking about
23:31<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : Do you understand me in the Riot.IM IRC Client, or the anachrony issue/problem still it Isn't clear?
23:32<annadane>i'm not even using, just hexchat
23:32<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : Do you understand me in the Riot.IM IRC Client *faced* issue, or the anachrony issue/problem still it Isn't clear?
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23:33<annadane>yeah, i don't really know what you're talking about
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23:42<lhvf[m]>@ annadane : I've seen at last Sunday a strange issue on the Riot.IM IRC Client: When you post some messages, the order that some are displayed were anachrony, and I only could seen 'the lost post' (swallowed to back messages) with search feature of my Android Riot.IM Client, not this displaying in the sequencial and correct order.
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23:45<annadane>well, i don't know
23:45<annadane>check the irc logs if you care that much
23:45<dpkg>irclog is probably #debian on <freenode> is logged at , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at
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23:46<lhvf[m]>#debian thegrebs website confirmed the symptoms.
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23:56<lhvf[m]>> #debian thegrebs website confirmed the symptoms.
23:56<lhvf[m]>Maybe because time fuse of the different versions.
23:57<annadane>you have to understand that not everyone is using
23:57<annadane>just because you are and can connect to irc using it doesn't mean everyone will see the chat message output in riot's screen
23:57<twb>annadane: what problem is lhvf[m] even trying to solve?
23:58<annadane>don't know
23:58<annadane>something about duplicate messages
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 27 00:00:11 2019