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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-08-27

---Logopened Tue Aug 27 00:00:11 2019
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00:14<lhvf[m]>> something about duplicate messages
00:14<lhvf[m]>No. I I've seen only in Riot IRC Client for Android 'the strange phenomenon of lost by swallowing to back in the displaying order', that I could only see back that lost messages' if searching the same found words (in the correct sequencial order, on the Riot.IM without 'disappearances') of logs if thegrebs. Maybe it"s se are at different time zones, and Riot. IM some times suffers these little strange issues. Sorry by my English, if it Isn't
00:14<lhvf[m]>clear yet..
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00:15<twb>lhvf[m]: have you asked the matrix/riot people about this?
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00:17<sney>IRC is sort of a primitive protocol so messages can get out of order simply via network conditions
00:17<sney>I don't see how this is a Debian issue.
00:18<lhvf[m]>Maybe a Riot.IM IRC Client intermittent issue/or even a bug.
00:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 599] by debhelper
00:19<sney>well, riot doesn't show up in a quick apt search, so again, what does this have to do with debian
00:20<twb>dpkg: revolt
00:20<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, twb
00:20<twb>dpkg -l revolt
00:20<dpkg>ii revolt 1.7-15.2 twb's private stamp collection
00:20<twb>sney: anyway, I found that in stable
00:20<lhvf[m]>sney : Sometines I even can discover the time zones that the user may himself/herself, and it shouldn't occur.
00:20<sney>twb: ah, yeah.
00:21<sney>lhvf[m]: are you using revolt?
00:21<sney>I mean, even so. whatever is going on sounds like an upstream problem or a network problem, or both
00:22<twb>I agree. I was just being a pedant.
00:26<lhvf[m]>@ sney : Sorry.. I don't understand what you've asked.. I'll search on the Internet to know what this said 'revolt'. I'm using the Riot.IM for Android IRC Client just now.
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00:27<sney>lhvf[m]: to be clear: this irc channel is for support for the Debian operating system. It is not for random irc help or android app support. So you should ask the Riot people for help instead.
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00:28<lhvf[m]>> lhvf:
00:28<lhvf[m]>Yes, is this. Correct (This is the reason of mistyped
00:28<lhvf[m]>words/ typos by suggestions : The small screen for touch..).
00:31<lhvf[m]>sney : Sorry.. I'll contact, and maybe raise an issue on GitHub of the occurence of this (intermittent) problem.
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00:41<mendelmunkis>How can I identify the source of an x client leak?
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00:56<lhvf[m]>Thanks to the all offered help and advices. Bye.
00:57<twb>mendelmunkis_: leak of what? credit card numbers? memory?
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00:58<mendelmunkis_>twb: leak of x clients
00:58<twb>mendelmunkis_: I don't understand.
00:58<mendelmunkis_>I have 256 open clients according to xrestop
00:59<twb>That is a suspiciously round number
00:59<mendelmunkis_>Its the maximum number of allowed open clients.
00:59<mendelmunkis_>xlsclients only lits 26 though
00:59<twb>mendelmunkis_: what does xrestop give for their "identifier" ?
01:00<twb>For me, "xrestop" is printing non-X applications like screen and xrestop.
01:00<mendelmunkis_>1f800000 0 1 0 0 0 0B 24B 24B ? <unknown>
01:00<mendelmunkis_>is the contents of most of the lines.
01:01<mendelmunkis_>*just with different res_base per line
01:01<twb>and now way to turn that into an X window ID either
01:02<mendelmunkis_>Its an issue I've been having for about a month
01:03<twb>ss -xp can list X programs but only by the ID not by a named path
01:03<twb>For example,
01:03<twb>u_str LISTEN 0 128 @/tmp/.X11-unix/X0 26678
01:03<twb>u_str ESTAB 0 0 * 25915 * 26667 users:(("ratpoison",pid=882,fd=1),("twb-loop",pid=746,fd=1),("Xorg",pid=736,fd=1),("gdm-x-session",pid=734,fd=1))
01:03<twb>^ thats shows the 4 X clients I'm currently running by matching 26678 and 26678 (except oops, wrong number)
01:04<twb>I can't see any way to "line up" the numbers.
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01:07<mendelmunkis_>If I see keepassxc-proxy show up 113 times that would be a good sign that thats where the problem is?
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01:09<mendelmunkis_>Thank you for your help. additionally thanks for teaching me about ss.
01:10<twb>note that ss is usually called "netstat" which is its old name
01:10<twb>it is still called "netstat" on solaris and bsd
01:11<mendelmunkis_>Huh, man ss seems to indicate that it is a seperate project.
01:11<twb>ss is part of iproute2
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01:19<mendelmunkis_>turns out its a known keepassxc bug. Turned off the relevant feature until they fix it.
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01:21<twb>mendelmunkis_: yay
01:21<twb>mendelmunkis_: another workaround could be something like "timeout 1d keepassx-blah"
01:22<twb>or "pkill keepassx-blah"
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01:23<mendelmunkis_>twb: unfortunately for some reason killing it doesnt seem to have freed the clients
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02:17<twb>When using systemd-networkd (not ifupdown), networkctl reports that lo is unmanaged. What brings up the lo interface?
02:21<nezZario>Can anyone help me .. understand how the heck apt/trusted.gpg.d works
02:22<nezZario>I am building custom images here and even though i'm copying a .gpg for a repository in there, almost immediately afterward it says it can't be verified
02:23<twb>FWIW, a minimal Debian *container* started by systemd-nspawn, has "1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged" instead of "1 lo loopback carrier unmanaged"
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02:23<twb>So my current theory is that something in the ramdisk does "ip link set lo up"
02:25<nezZario>sorry twb, .. I just figured out netns and thought I was amazing for that .. haven't gotten that far yet =)
02:29<twb>nezZario: I was working on my own problem :-)
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02:29<twb>nezZario: apt-key(1) has basically its own equivalent of your ~/.gnupg/ directory, with a bunch of repository keyrings
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02:29<nezZario>yeah i'm reading the source now
02:30<nezZario>kinda hard to read but it looks like it's just using gpg to create keyring files?
02:30<twb>nezZario: each repo has a Release file which is signed. The Release file then has checksums (SHA-512) for other indexes, and the other indexes have checksums for the actual .deb files
02:30<twb>nezZario: "apt install foo" uses this to ensure that the foo_1.0_all.deb hasn't been modified by your ISP
02:30<nezZario>yeah i fully understand that bit
02:31<twb>nezZario: "apt-key" mostly just runs gpg, yes.
02:31<nezZario>I tried to just setup a "soft" fork of debian (basically keep it up to date with debain stable and apply some very minor patches0
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02:31<nezZario>patches = add some stuff, replace a few .. like maybe 20 pkgs total
02:32<twb>nezZario: then I advise you to use reprorepo or similar to make a drop-in repo that has just those 20 packages
02:32<twb>nezZario: with bumped versions and pinning on the clients
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02:32<nezZario>yeah it's just repropro with some custom scripts to remove+readd non-official after updating from real debian
02:32<nezZario>but i never finished my scripts =)
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02:37<nezZario>Do you have any idea: "Could not handshake: Error in the certificate verification." .. That sounds more like it is reading the file but maybe there is a version difference?
02:37<nezZario>The system it's installing with debootstrap is buster, installing from stretch
02:38<nezZario>It's copying the raw keyring file over .. instead of the dearmored one ..
02:38<nezZario>Armored? dearmored? .. the normal text one
02:40<twb>nezZario: jetring used to handle that
02:41<twb>nezZario: I think it chagned in stretch
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02:41<twb>nezZario: if you just want to add your key to the trust list, "apt-key adv --keyserver hkp:// --recv-key DEAFBEEFBABE"
02:42<nezZario>i'd always seen it deadbeef, i like deafbeef better
02:42<nezZario>but yeah i just switched it to use apt-file, i think I did it right
02:42<nezZario>let's give it a whirl
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02:45<twb>nezZario: "deadbeefbabe" is a java idiom, I think
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03:20<xcombelle>Hello, I accumulated too much useless packages, on my debian system. I would like to restart from fresh from package installed point of view. I use xfce desktop manager. From package point of view I want somehting like a full fresh install exactly as I have only changed gnomedm with xfcedm manager and everything else by default. I could do it by backup my home directory, reinstalling debian from
03:20<xcombelle>crash and restore my home directory. The main drawback of this method is that I would lose all my config files which are ok. So I would prefer doing something like removing all packages except the Debian Standard XFce or if not possible, removing all packages except essential packages then apt install xfce4. Maybe there is a better solution. Can you help me ?
03:21<twb>xcombelle: when you do a fresh install, you can choose XFCE as the desktop
03:21<twb>xcombelle: GNOME is never installed in the first place
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03:41<at0m>xcombelle: i use aptitude's curses interface if i want to remove such larger batches of packages. then carefully review what else is being removed, either cos depends are removed or automatically installed packages that i'd still like to use.
03:42<twb>One thing I do is "mark auto" everything early on during install
03:42<at0m>xcombelle: also, deborphan can suggest and remove 'orphaned' packages that are left behind and no longer needed
03:42<twb>So that if libfoo isn't needed, it gets removed
03:42<at0m>twb: yea, but as always, carefully review what gets removed
03:43<twb>That typically tries to remove btrfs/zfs support, for example, which would break boot
03:43<at0m>sure, all depends.. hence the manual err visual review
03:45<at0m>one reason i stress the 'review' is that often times people come in here 'wth x y and z got removed left my system unusable'
03:45<Victor42>Fresh install of Debian Buster gets a different IP address from the DHCP Server after each reboot. How to make the address persistent? RTFM did not help ...
03:45<xcombelle>at0m: twb sorry for the disturbance, I realized something that makes my question useless
03:46<twb>xcombelle: no problem - it's a very common issue, it's reasonable to ask about it
03:47<xcombelle>yes it was reasonable you were very kind
03:47<twb>xcombelle: I also strongly recommend you back up /etc/ and /var/backup and maybe /var/lib/{dpkg,apt} before you replace your old OS partition. If you forget something, it's much easier to work it out when you still have those
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03:47<twb>In fact I usually make a complete backup of the OS partition as a squashfs
03:47<at0m>Victor42: "man interfaces" would, and maybe set a static IP on the LAN. (for example, i only DHCP say >.200 addresses,t he rest is set manually. either that, or set DHCP reservations for mac addresses, or longer DHCP times.
03:47<xcombelle>twb Actuially I bought a new computer that I will have to install
03:48<twb>sudo mount --bind / /mnt/umount-me && sudo mksquashfs /mnt/umount-me/ /home/twb/Desktop/old-os-backup_2019-08-27.sq
03:48<twb>xcombelle: I also recommend everyone use etckeeper which version-controls /etc
03:49<at0m>i usually add /var/lib/ to the list of stuff to back up, too. cos databases uses by many packages.
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03:50<alkisg>twb: Hello! I installed buster-gnome with debian live a month ago; now I tried your trick (over a VM snapshot; no problem, just question) and marked auto all packages; but apt purge --auto-remove now wants to remove many...
03:50<alkisg>So my question is, do you mark as "manually installed" some of the packages? Or do you a minimal installation first, so you're not affected by autoremove?
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03:55<Victor42>at0m: not allowed to use static addresses here. My previous Debian 9 install did get a persistent IP address. I'll probably have to do a side-by-side comparison to find the difference ...
03:56<at0m>Victor42: and the machine's mac address isn't changing? (ie. macchanger could be set to change it on boot)
03:57<at0m>Victor42: other than that, it's commonly the lease time by the DHCP server that expires, after which it frees the mac/IP binding and offers a new IP
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03:59<at0m>Victor42: one other software thing that comes to mind is powersaving, say the network interface goes dormant on the machine so the lease expires. would surprise me, but that's a possibility. powertop to see and set power saving easily.
04:02<Victor42>at0m: I already checked the mac address and it is always the dafault HW address. At this moment I'm checking the leasetime/leasehours settings in /etc/network/interfaces. Maybe the defaults are different between Debian 9 and 10. Powersaving is off, so that will not be the issue.
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04:03<at0m>Victor42: powersaving isn't just "suspend/hibernate after x minutes". drives spool down, usb ports lower polling rate, lots of powersaving under the hood.
04:04<at0m>cpu throttles, and so forth. check with powertop.
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04:20<Victor42>at0m: configuring leasetime/leasehours did not help. Every ifdown/ifup results in a new IP address being assigned. I'll switch back to my Debian 9 backup to try to find the difference ...
04:23<twb>alkisg: didn't I already answer that 2 weeks ago
04:23<alkisg>twb: I don't know, I wasn't here...
04:23<twb>alkisg: apt unmarkauto task-gnome-desktop &c as needed
04:23<alkisg>If you mean to me, no, you didn't
04:24<twb>* apt-mark unmarkauto task-gnome-desktop &c as needed
04:24<twb>alkisg: I normally do it before the GUI is installed, so I don't notice as much
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07:14<bremner>did something change with /dev/loop* in kernel 4.19.0-6? they seem to have gone away
07:16<bremner>I guess I need to adjust all of me debian stable machines to "modprobe loop", which is mildy annoying
07:21<ksk>bremner: If I remember correctly, there where some changes in loop-devices with recent kernels, yes. But now the details, eh...
07:21*alkisg hasn't seen loop autoloaded in debian since at least jessie
07:22<ksk>for exampe, loop does not work inside namespaces/cgroups (aka containers) as far as I know
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08:51<mendelmunkis>I am having trouble finding documentation for using the OVMF package. Is there any place I should be looking?
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08:54<bremner>did you check ?
08:54<bremner>(from the package Homepage field)
08:56<mendelmunkis>the documentation links redirect to their github which I already checked.
08:57<mendelmunkis>Anything I was able to find seems to assume that you are running out of the dir with the built file.
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10:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:31<luizromario>Hello. Why isn't kde-telepathy-contact-list available in buster? It was available in jessie and strech and it is currently available in sid
10:31<utred>Hello, has anyone came across Parrot OS not updating or upgrading via terminal
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10:33<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages, or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
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11:25<lonak94>Hi. Have have a problem with installing Buster on an old Imac 2006. It has a ati mobility radeon x1600 and an intel core 2 duo t7200, and 4gb of ddr2 667mhz ram. The image on the screen freezes at boot on the integrated screen, but i can ssh the mac from another computer. What can i do to solve this problem? I've already used the guide "Atihowto".
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11:28<petn-randall>hi ssssdsddds
11:29<ssssdsddds>mam problem...
11:29<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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11:29<lonak94>What can i do? I can post dmesg output?
11:30<ssssdsddds>po aktualizacji debiana do bullseye cinnamon nie dziala jak trzeba... :(
11:30<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
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11:30<petn-randall>ssssdsddds: You can either ask in english here, or go to the polish channel above. ^^^
11:30<ssssdsddds>łoki ...
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11:32<lonak94>[ 2.516449] radeon 0000:01:00.0: Invalid PCI ROM header signature: expecting 0xaa55, got 0xa3a3 [ 2.516468] radeon 0000:01:00.0: Invalid PCI ROM header signature: expecting 0xaa55, got 0x2323 [ 2.516521] [drm:radeon_get_bios [radeon]] *ERROR* Unable to locate a BIOS ROM [ 2.516529] radeon 0000:01:00.0: Fatal error during GPU init [ 2.516533] [drm] radeon: finishing device. [ 2.516535] [TTM] Memory type
11:33<lonak94>This is the dmesg output of the error. Some ideas?
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11:35<jhutchins_wk>lonak94: What chipset? lspci -nn, give us the eight character PCI ID.
11:36<jhutchins_wk>lonak94: It's possible your card is newer than the currently supported drivers.
11:36<towo`>mobility radeon x1600
11:37<towo`>isn't that new ;)
11:37<lonak94>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV530/M56-P [Mobility Radeon X1600] [1002:71c5]
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11:37<jhutchins_wk>,pciid 1002:71c5
11:37<judd>[1002:71c5] is 'RV530/M56-P [Mobility Radeon X1600]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in stretch. See also and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module.
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11:39<dboles>snd-hda-intel ??
11:39<jhutchins_wk>dboles: Yeah, kinda doubt that's going to do much for the video.
11:40<jhutchins_wk>lonak94: Check the nvidia site to see which version of the driver supports your chipset, then see if that version is available in Debian.
11:40<towo`>jhutchins_wk, that is ati, not nvidia
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11:41<jhutchins_wk>Um, sorry, yeah, Radeon. AMD, right?
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11:42<jhutchins_wk>I mean, I deal with these things every ten years or so, I should remember better.
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11:43<lonak94>i treied to download it but whan i launch the *.run file, but after extracting it terminates itself... And on the site is says "Automated installer and Display Drivers for X.Org 6.7, 6.8, 6.9, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, or 7.4"
11:44<dboles>,v xorg
11:44<judd>Package: xorg on amd64 -- jessie: 1:7.7+7; bullseye: 1:7.7+19; buster: 1:7.7+19; sid: 1:7.7+19; stretch: 1:7.7+19
11:45<towo`>lonak94, your problems semms grub related,
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11:45<lonak94>Nono, thanks to everyone. Every bit of help is apprecciated!
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11:47<lonak94>"Grub-Wise" there's something.
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11:48<towo`>lonak94, you should be able to boot that system with nomodeset as bootparameter
11:49<lonak94>In order to be able to boot the installer from an efi32 i needed to copy in the usb also the files from EFI and /boot/grub/ from an x32bit iso in my 64bit iso key...
11:49<lonak94>Can it be the problem...
11:50<lonak94>towo', i've tried to add nomodeset but it doesn't solve the problem, it gives another erro.
11:51<lonak94>r. Do you want that i post also that dmesg output?
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11:56<towo`>lonak94, try modprobe.blacklist=radeon nomeodeset
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12:10<fuzzy>I am looking on the ftp server for a debian wheezy netboot but don't see wheezy at all. is this still downloadable?
12:12<d3c0>!hi, I need a VNP Client, does anyone know of any good?
12:12<d3c0>... and free :)
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12:51<sqrt{not}>d3c0: ? vulcan nerve pinch ?
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12:55<d3c0>sqrt{not}: I've never used any of those
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12:55<sqrt{not}>d3c0: what are you asking about ? what is VNP ??
12:56<sney>d3c0: did you mean vpn? most providers are either going to use openvpn or strongswan/ipsec
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12:57<d3c0>sqrt{not}: looking for a Client VNP like FortiClient..
12:58<sney>looks like forticlient uses ipsec
12:59<sney>the correct approach is to figure out what protocol you need for the vpn *provider* you're using, and then choose the client based on that
12:59<sney>if you're setting up your own vpn on a cloud server, you can pretty much flip a coin. openvpn and strongswan are both good.
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13:02<d3c0>sney: the protocol are VPNSSL and VPN IPSec
13:03<d3c0>openvpn works with both ?
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13:03<sney>ipsec is one vpn type. openvpn is another vpn type. are you connecting to a fortinet vpn?
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13:04<d3c0>I am connecting to an SSL VPN
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13:06<sney>looks like you should probably use openvpn then.
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13:08<d3c0>sney: thank you. :)
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13:08<bohiyi>Any idea on how to copy firmware to USB after burning the mini.iso with dd?
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13:12<sqrt{not}>boyiyi: if you already burned an .iso image, you need to use a different USB stick. see this:
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13:13<sqrt{not}>bohiyi: see above ^^
13:14<sqrt{not}>bohiyi: another option, is to use an .iso image with included firmware
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13:19<bohiyi>sqrt{not}: Last month, when using Rufus in Windows, I was able to copy the firmware to the USB after burning the ISO. Any idea on why I can't do the same here?
13:21<sqrt{not}>rufus seems to unpack the squash fs in the .iso and modify it. it is not recommended.
13:21<dpkg>rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
13:22<sqrt{not}>bohiyi: why don't you just use one of the .iso images that include firmware already ??
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13:24<sqrt{not}>bohiyi: for example:
13:24<BCMM>bohiyi: in the past, when USB boot was new, people sometimes wanted to take CD images and make them work on USB devices. doing this automatically has always been a dodgy hack which frequently doesn't work properly.
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13:25<BCMM>these days, just about everybody has images that are already capable of USB boot, and you should use a tool that simply writes the image to USB *unmodified*
13:26<sqrt{not}>bohiyi: if you already have the ability to use dd, then just download a single image with firmware, and dd it onto your USB
13:27<BCMM>or on windows, use win32diskimager
13:27<BCMM>(if you already have Etcher, you could just as well use that, but i wouldn't recommend it cos of Electron bloat)
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13:29<bohiyi>Thank you guys, I'm downloading the ISO with firmware included.
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14:36<ovrd>I am in Sytem d ermgency mode
14:40<sqrt{not}>ovrd: OK, what error messages do you see ?
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15:21<un214>ugh nvidia
15:21<jhutchins_wk>Sigh. That's as much fun as "I got an error message!!! It says "There was an error. Do exactly this to fix it." Often highlighted in red, pasted here verbatim.
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15:23<sqrt{not}>jhutchins_wk: nah, that's no fun, it's too easy !
15:25<sqrt{not}>what we need is some kind of Colombo/PeterFalk 'bot here, to start the questioning
15:25<un214>by the time I have to ask something the bot's gonna upchuck
15:26<un214>anybody else use the nvidia driver dirctly off their website? I think I'm going to end up having to uninstall it
15:27<jelly>back when I'd used that driver I looked at their install scripts, then decided to go with debian's packaging even if it wasn't always the latest version
15:28<un214>wise, until you have to bug nvidia support because no version is working
15:28<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u5); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1)
15:28<jhutchins_wk>un214: I use it, but I followed their directions _exactly_ on a clean system.
15:28<towo`>have fun crashing your graphics system by using the installer from nvidia
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15:29<sqrt{not}>!why nvidia-installer sucks
15:29<dpkg>nvidia-installer works fine for you today, granted. Let's say tomorrow Xorg is updated -- the nvidia driver will break. If you try to uninstall nvidia (nvidia-installer --uninstall), then you break Xorg badly. nvidia-installer overwrites files at random, and has NO CONCEPT of package management. We recommend against using it based on extensive experience. USE THE DEBIAN PACKAGES. Ask me about <nvidia>.
15:29<jelly>towo`: I've never seen the installer crash things
15:29<jhutchins_wk>un214: You should be able to find what version supports your chipset.
15:29<jelly>what it leaves _behind_ is problematic
15:29<towo`>jelly, chrashing is may the wrong word
15:29<jelly>towo`: when was the last time you tried it?
15:29<towo`>but it overwrites system libs, what is not the best idea
15:30<jelly>it doesn't exactly overwrite
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15:30<un214>there's a dpkg command to rebuild overwritten system libs right?
15:30<jelly>it uses its own dpkg-divert like functionality
15:30<jhutchins_wk>sqrt{not}: The problem is when the version that supports your card isn't available yet in Debian. Nvidia's pretty good at getting them out by the time the hardware's available.
15:30<jelly>but... does not track, or tell the package manager about it
15:31<un214>anyway this isn't a debate on how much it sucks
15:31<jhutchins_wk>It seems like when I first looked into it the debian-supplied nvidia-built drivers were dummy packages that just ran the nvidia installer.
15:31<jhutchins_wk>I may have been mistaken about that.
15:32<jelly>un214: you can use debsums to find broken packages, and reinstall them
15:32<un214>I finally turned to it after I couldn't order the Xorg vesa driver to 3840x2160
15:33<jelly>and there's nvidia-installer-cleanup
15:33<jelly>jhutchins_wk: you were absolutely mistaken
15:34<jelly>,i nvidia-installer-cleanup
15:34<judd>Package nvidia-installer-cleanup (contrib/misc, optional) in buster/amd64: cleanup after driver installation with the nvidia-installer. Version: 20151021+9; Size: 18.7k; Installed: 52k
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15:37<jhutchins_wk>jelly: I know there was something that did that. Adobe? Install the .deb and it runs a script that downloads and runs the proprietary installer. Apparently obsolete now.
15:38<un214>that would be flash
15:39<un214>it wasn't quite just run their installer; it did a few things to ensure the setup interacted well with the pkg manager
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15:41<jhutchins_wk>un214: I had to update the version number in the script once. Maintainer had it updated in an hour when I told him.
15:42<un214>the later version I looked it was more like "download this .tar.gz" and extract it in some dynamically detected location
15:43<jelly>flash installer would download a tarball, verify it matched a known version by looking up the checksum off a file at and their copied the .so to a system-wide location where firefox et al. could find it
15:44<jelly>and then the maintainer would be absent for months
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15:48<jhutchins_wk>jelly: He never missed a message from me. Luck, I guess.
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15:58<Davenport12>I am trying to create a debian 10 buster xen guest on a debian 9 stretch host. I created it with xentools and the network interfaces show up as eth0 and eth1 in the guest, but they can't reach the xenbr devices on the host. Any ideas?
15:59<Davenport12>according to documentation the interfaces shouldn't be showing up as eth0 and eth1, but they are
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16:01<Davenport12>another thing, they are getting ipv6 addresses from the dhcp server but not ipv4
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16:03<Davenport12>ok... I guess if I run 'dhclient eth0' it gets the address... why isn't this working through /etc/network/interfaces ?
16:05<un214>because you're using networkmanager?
16:09<Davenport12>and I shouldn't?
16:09<Davenport12>this is a headless install with no X or display manager
16:10<un214>I'm not going to say that; my experience is networkmanager doens't always believe /etc/network/interfaces
16:10<Davenport12>network manager isn't running
16:10<un214>ah; that I know how to answer now
16:10<Davenport12>its not installed
16:10<un214>you need a line in /etc/network/interfaces that's auto eth0
16:11<un214>otherwise it won't start on boot
16:11<Davenport12>this is what I had:
16:11<Davenport12>auto eth0
16:11<Davenport12>iface eth0 inet dhcp
16:11<Davenport12>its starting, its getting dhcp6 address but not ipv4 address from dhcp
16:11<Davenport12>when I manually run dhclient it gets the ipv4 address
16:12<un214>is it possible your guests are up too soon and can't reach the dhcp server yet?
16:12<Davenport12>its as if the default behavior of dhclient is to send the hostname to request the address but ifup/ifdown is sending in wrong information to dhclient or something
16:12<Davenport12>no, systemd is waiting at least 30 seconds for the server to respond
16:13<un214>I'd say check if hostname has been set yet
16:13<Davenport12>when I manually run 'ifup eth0' after eerything is booted, I get the same result. it never gets ipv4
16:13<un214>well scratch my last idea
16:13<Davenport12>hostname is set the same as a debian9 server and the dhcp server works fine with the same format
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16:13<Davenport12>I mean debian9 guest
16:13<un214>workaround: put dhclient eth0 in /etc/rc.local
16:14<un214>I used to write my own boot scripts
16:15<un214>I'm not going to say rc.local is a good idea; I'm going to say it will work
16:15<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: Is the machine actually running ipv4?
16:15<Davenport12>agreed, but you'd think something this fundamental would work in a major debian release
16:16<Davenport12>yes, everything works great when I manually run dhclient eth0
16:16<un214>so would I and it works on my desktop at home
16:16<un214>my work desktop is static
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16:17<Davenport12>I statically assign ip addresses through my dhcp server.
16:17<un214>ah; I would fix this differently in the dhcp server. I prefer for the dhcp server to memorize mac addresses
16:18<Davenport12>I have a dhcp server that is connected to the xen host through a vlan connection that is bridged to xen through the guest config file so eth0 and eth1 appear like they are connected directly to the vlan networks
16:18<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: Reserved by MAC?
16:18<Davenport12>they are reerved by mad and client-id
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16:19<Davenport12>I suppose its possible dhclient-script is reading the hostname incorrectly
16:19<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: I think the issue here can be attributed to the fact that it's an xen vm rather than an actual (virtual)machine.
16:19<Davenport12>but I have no way of knowing what's going on in that script
16:19<Davenport12>everything works fine on debian 9
16:20<jhutchins_wk>Yeah, 10 seems a little more "interesting".
16:20<Davenport12>it sounds like there is one person somewhere in central europe that understands the new networking scripts and probably doesn't speak english
16:21<un214>yeah I don't like the new names
16:22<un214>if I knew how to change it back to eth0 I would
16:22<piper>un214: it says how on the link
16:22<Davenport12>well someone broke something
16:22<Davenport12>there is a way to change it back, but that's not what I'm seeing on my system. they interfaces are actually showing up as eth0 and eth1
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16:23<piper>all 4 boxes, 4 tablets, 4 phones here all have static ip in router
16:23<Davenport12>in /sys/class/net there are eth0, eth1, and lo
16:24<Davenport12>there are /sys/devices/vif-1 and /sys/devices/vif-1
16:25<piper>nope, as it should, it would be a enp4s0 or smething simuliar
16:25<Davenport12>apparently there are xen vif drivers, maybe udev never was updated to support these?
16:26<piper>i don't use xen, sorry can't help
16:26<Davenport12>here's something interesting in syslog: xenbus_probe_frontend: Device with no driver: device/vif/0
16:26<un214>you wanna see your system misbehave: remove the auto lo line from /etc/network/interfaces
16:27<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: On my VBox host there aren't any entries that correspond with the interfaces in /sys/devices
16:27<piper>auto lo
16:27<piper>iface lo inet loopback
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16:28<Davenport12>i'm talking about the guest OS, not the host. the host works fine
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16:31<piper>i rarely even use vbox anymore, i boot straight to the live iso (on the harddrive, toram) that i test, no windows here at the moment, no need for it
16:31<jhutchins_wk>piper: I use the company-supplied/maintained W10 with vbox running stretch.
16:32<piper>thats different and i understand
16:32<jhutchins_wk>piper: Basically it's a terminal.
16:32<piper>jhutchins_wk: i am retired, no need ;)
16:33<jhutchins_wk>piper: Home has been windows-free since about 2006.
16:33<jhutchins_wk>No, it was earlier than that...
16:33<piper>jhutchins_wk: except for my wife, i switched to debian in 1997
16:34<jhutchins_wk>I bought a refurbished netbook for $250 and calculated that the software I would need would cost me around $600 up front.
16:34<piper>slackware before that
16:34<jhutchins_wk>My wife uses XFCE.
16:34<piper>i did leave debian for a while, mandrake
16:35<jhutchins_wk>She does have a macbook, but that's mostly for scrivener (writing program).
16:36<jhutchins_wk>I started with RH2.1 (pre RHEL), killed it by installing packages from Mandrake, stuck with Mandrake until they started releasing packages that didn't actually run, tested ubuntu, and decided the servers I ran would run Debian.
16:36<piper>my wife has used knoppix,kanotix,sidux,aptosid,siduction,debian she has followed us around (basically the same guys for decades) but she uses windows (7) mostly
16:37<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: Maybe the answer is to go ahead and run nmcli.
16:37<Davenport12>this system isn't using nm
16:37<piper>have to grill some burgers and need a beer, good luck
16:38<Davenport12>all I wanted to do was spin up a vm to set up a lamp server and now this... ugh
16:38<Davenport12>3 f-ing hours later
16:38<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: Right, so using nm might be the answer.
16:39<dpkg>Xen is an open source virtual machine monitor / hypervisor, allowing several guest operating systems to execute concurrently on the same system. Provides paravirtualization (requiring guest OSs to be modified/ported) and hardware-assisted virtualization (for running guests unmodified). For detailed help, see . #debian-xen on See also <virtualization>.
16:39<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: The xen channel might be more helpful.
16:39<Davenport12>true, maybe they have seen this
16:40<Davenport12>thanks jhutchins_wk
16:41<jhutchins_wk>Davenport12: Good luck, sorry we can't find anything obvious.
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16:46<Davenport12>thanks for your help
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16:50<Davenport12>is rc.local still a thing on debian 10 ?
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16:59<Davenport12>the /etc/rc.local trick works :)
16:59<Davenport12>even though its chaeting
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18:40<crypt1>hello all
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18:43<crypt1>so on debian 10 buster if I am root it appears that some commands only work if I use the fully qualified path of the some binaries, like modprobe, any ideas on how to fix?
18:43<sqrt{not}>!buster su
18:43<dpkg>The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable so commands normally available to root are not found. Put ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes in /etc/login.defs to get an approximation of the old behavior. See for workarounds.
18:44<sqrt{not}>you can also just do this: "su -"
18:44<sqrt{not}>that will force it to take root's environment
18:45<crypt1>hmm alright
18:45<crypt1>whats the reasoning behind the change is there any benefit ?
18:47<sqrt{not}>I haven't heard the explanation for it, I just use `sudo` when I want to be root, and I only use `su` when I need to work as some other regular user
18:48<crypt1>yes this is a fresh install so I had to to make some modifications
18:49<sqrt{not}>maybe worth looking at that entire "NewInBuster" web page, to see what else is different
18:49<crypt1>yes i agree, thanks for the help
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18:55<sqrt{not}>dpkg, buster su =~ s/havior./havior, or just use `su -` instead of plain `su`./
18:55<dpkg>OK, sqrt{not}
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19:20<sqrt{not}>I haven't heard the explanation for it, I just use `sudo` when I want to be root, and I only use `su` when I need to work as some other regular user/who sqrt{not}
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21:55<mendelmunkis>If I updated from linux 4.19.0-4-amd64 to 5.2.0-2-amd64 which package would i file a bug against?
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23:26<Guest895>Where is the running Xorg log located these days? My ~/.local/share/ only has an old Xorg.1.log and no Xorg.0.log; and a `sudo find / -name Xorg.0.log` turned up /var/lib/gdm3/.local/share/xorg/, /var/log/installer/, and /var/log/, all of which are at least a week old.
23:26<Guest895>And `journalctl -b 0 -u gdm` just has a few lines in it, none of them Xorg.
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23:36<sqrt{not}>Guest895: is it possible you are running wayland instead of Xorg ?
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23:53<Guest895>sqrt{not}: Very possible. How do I tell?
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23:53<Guest895>I have the `xwayland` package (automatically) installed.
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23:57<Guest895>Though I do also have xserver-xorg installed.
23:57<john>I'm useing Debian 9.9 with kde and dualbooting with Windows 10 the adjtime file is missing I use to just add Local to adjtime and windows and linux would have the same time
23:57<Guest895>How do I tell which one I am running; and how do I switch?
23:58<sqrt{not}>Guest895: at the gnome login, after you input your username, there is a little gear icon below the password space. if you click that, you will have choice of wayland or X and the default will be highlighted
23:58<john>I have tried just adding a file named adjtime to /etc and writing Local in it but that has no effect
---Logclosed Wed Aug 28 00:00:12 2019