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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-09-03

---Logopened Tue Sep 03 00:00:14 2019
---Daychanged Tue Sep 03 2019
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00:00<mendelmunkis>HotSauce: That should work.
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00:10<HotSauce>mendelmunkis thanks
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00:32<root_>Hi
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00:36<nvz>not yet, but we're working on it
00:36<root_>hey guys is this offsec chat room ?
00:36<nvz>no, it is certainly not
00:36<nvz>dpkg, offsec?
00:36<dpkg>nvz: no idea
00:36<root_>OSCP ?
00:36<nvz>yeah thats a bunch of nonsense
00:37<root_>ok let me check other group
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03:01<andremis>I cannot get debian-installer for testing (several version last month, including yesterday's snapshot) to generate a bootable system with luks and LVM. update-initramfs and update-grub from a live OS doesn't help either. I am always met with "Volume group not found" at boot. Is this a known issue? Is there a bug on it? Is there an old version of the installer I can use just to get Debian installed?
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03:27<nvz>andremis: you're in the wrong channel
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03:27<nvz>andremis: the channel for debian testing/unstable is #debian-next and the channel for the testing installer is #debian-boot
03:27<nvz>andremis: #debian is for stable
03:28<nvz>andremis: furthermore you could just use stable.. and if you must, upgrade after its installed.. but thats not recommended
03:29<andremis>Sorry, I read that debian-boot is not for support. I couldn't find any other support channel.
03:29<andremis>Yes, I did do the upgrade initially which left be a broken system.
03:30<nvz>andremis: yes well our recommendation is to use debian stable
03:30<nvz>its a particularly bad time to be using testing
03:30<nvz>if you were savvy enough with debian to use testing you'd know this is not a good time
03:31<nvz>here we tell you to install debian stable, then you tell us what it is that has you wanting to use testing/unstable and we show you better ways to go about it
03:32<nvz>#debian-boot: Meant for discussing the Debian Installer (and, occasionally, supporting users of it). https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
03:33<nvz>its a channel particularly for testing the installer.. its not meant for general support of the stable installer, its meant for discussion and support of the testing installer
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03:33<nvz>we support the stable installer here
03:34<nvz>andremis: if you want to discuss your use case for testing and why its a bad idea to use it right now, I'm here, 18years or so experience using and supporting debian, and bored out of my skull :P
03:34<andremis>I have always used testing, never had any major problems, and don't mind spending some time on issues with the benefit of having new packages. Upgrading this early was risky, yep, but I've got it working on other machines. No worries, it was worth asking! I will do my best to get it booted.
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03:35<nvz>there is no benefit to having new packages
03:35<nvz>and testing is still slushy
03:35<nvz>dpkg, slushy
03:35<dpkg>When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>.
03:35<andremis>Do you think debian-boot would want to hear of the reproducable issue of broken installs?
03:36<nvz>I think if you have a definite reproducible issue you should as a testing user, check the bts, file a bug, should know about the maintainers, mailing lists, bug reporting, etc..
03:36<nvz>I also think you're not testing material.. you're an ill informed user who should either be using stable or some spinoff distro other people who make bad decisions make :P
03:37<nvz>I was using MATE Desktop 1.20 in stable just fine prior to buster's release with MATE 1.20
03:37<nvz>there are ways to do whatever it is you're trying to do.. even test for testing, without running it as your base system
03:38<nvz>there is chroots, xen, qubes, virtualbox, qemu, backports, etc..
03:38<nvz>you use stable because you are a computer user, not a tester, who wants their stuff to work.. thats the bottom line
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03:39-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
03:39<nvz>testing is for people who are actually testing.. people who find bugs, report them, etc.. its not just some secret club where we keep all the new toys from the kids
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03:40<tarzeau>i'm having such a hard time to setup webcams :( motion is great right?
03:41<nvz>I never had any issue setting up a webcam
03:41<tarzeau>the upstream talks about camera0.conf but debian has camera1-dist.conf (up to 4) and motion.conf
03:41<nvz>I also have no idea what you mean by motion.. I was playing with viacam or w/e recently though
03:41<tarzeau>nvz: what software did you use it with?
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03:42<nvz>I find cheese is straightforward for the simple photos/video, skype is simple enough for video chat, and that viacam or w/e its called is a neat tool for using camera as a pointing device
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03:42<nvz>,i viacam
03:42<judd>No package named 'viacam' was found in buster/amd64.
03:42<nvz>,i eviacam
03:42<judd>Package eviacam (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: camera based mouse emulator. Version: 2.1.3-4.1; Size: 5551.2k; Installed: 7600k; Homepage: http://viacam.org
03:42<nvz>,i cheese
03:42<judd>Package cheese (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: tool to take pictures and videos from your webcam. Version: 3.31.90-1; Size: 343.5k; Installed: 661k; Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Cheese; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/cheese
03:42<tarzeau>i don't want it for skype or so, just for monitoring, and have a display show it, or with remote access from browser
03:43<nvz>yeah I thought of setting something like that up but never did
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03:43<nvz>I personally am not much of a camera user.. I got two cameras in my head.. thats enough for me..
03:45<duclicsic>I've tried motion before and hated it. A long time ago we had a box running zoneminder which seemed ok, but isn't packaged for debian afaik.
03:46<tarzeau>duclicsic: so what did you end up with?
03:46<duclicsic>nothing
03:46<tarzeau>i was hopeing it'd be easy to use some old cheap usb cams and add them with homebridge.io
03:46<duclicsic>I don't currently run any cctv style setup
03:46<tarzeau>but debian sid has zoneminder
03:47<nvz>,v zoneminder
03:47<judd>Package: zoneminder on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 1.30.4+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; sid: 1.32.3-2; stretch-multimedia: 2:1.30.4-dmo1+deb9u2; buster-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo4+deb10u2; bullseye-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo7; sid-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo7
03:47<duclicsic>I was using zoneminder over 10 years ago and it seemed to do a reasonable job of taking feeds from a number of usb cameras
03:47<nvz>,checkbackport zoneminder
03:47<duclicsic>it wasn't great, but maybe it's improved since
03:47<judd>Backporting package zoneminder in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster, virtual.
03:48<nvz>,depends zoneminder
03:48<judd>No package named 'zoneminder' was found in buster/amd64.
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03:48<nvz>,depends zoneminder --release sid
03:48<judd>Package zoneminder in sid/amd64 -- depends: fonts-glewlwyd (>= 1.4.9), perl, libavcodec58 (>= 7:4.0), libavformat58 (>= 7:4.1), libavresample4 (>= 7:4.0), libavutil56 (>= 7:4.0), libc6 (>= 2.27), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libgcrypt20 (>= 1.8.0), libgnutls-openssl27 (>= 3.6.5-0), libjpeg62-turbo (>= 1.3.1), libmariadb3 (>= 3.0.0), libpcre3, libstdc++6 (>= 5.2), libswscale5 (>= 7:4.0), libvlc5
03:48<judd>(>= 1.1.1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), default-mysql-client | virtual-mysql-client, cakephp (>= 2.8.0), cakephp (<< 3.0.0~), javascript-common, libdate-manip-perl, libmime-lite-perl, libmime-tools-perl, libmodule-load-conditional-perl, libnet-sftp-foreign-perl, libphp-serialization-perl, lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), php-apcu, php-gd, php-json, php-mysql | php5-mysql, rsyslog | system-log-daemon, zip, libarchive-zip-perl, libdbd- (1 more message)
03:48<nvz>meh
03:50<nvz>that looks like a hot mess
03:51<nvz>perl, php, mysql, not something I'd wanna build just for shits and giggles
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04:22<tarzeau>ah i found this to be very easy: https://www.linux.com/tutorials/how-operate-linux-spycams-motion/
04:22<tarzeau>zoneminder looked way bloaty (webinterface, php, webserver). so i'm going motion. got two usb cams, they work right away when plugging in
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04:26<nvz>when you can't decide on a P in a LAMP stack, and use more than one, bloaty becomes an understatemnet
04:27<nvz>it uses both perl and php.. they may as well have gone for python, pascal, hell toss apple prodos in there too.. why not
04:28<nvz>LAMPPPPP like you have a lisp.. hell who doesn't like parenthesis.. throw lisp in there too :D
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04:28<grummund>Xfce Terminal Preferences -> Appearance -> "Use system font" when ticked seems to use Monospace 11 regardless...
04:28<grummund>that is, regardless of what Settings -> Appearance -> Fonts -> Default Monospace Font is set to.
04:29<grummund>is that a bug or am i missing dome other setting for "system font" ?
04:29<grummund>*some
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04:31<nvz>I see no "use system font" in xfce4-appearance-settings
04:31<nvz>I have xfce installed but I'm in MATE right now so navigating the menus isn't an option :P
04:31<grummund>Xfce Terminal Emulator -> Preferences -> Appearance -> "Use system font"
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04:32<nvz>ah the lxterminal
04:32<grummund>where is it getting this "system font" from?
04:33<nvz>meh
04:33<nvz>trying to strace it hung on me :P
04:34*nvz tries a different approach
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04:52<nvz>grummund: gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface monospace-font-name
04:52<nvz>grummund: use gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface monospace-font-name "Foo Bar 12" or such to set it
04:52<grummund>wow, thanks.
04:53<nvz>this changes what it uses in xfce4 terminal when checking use system font
04:53<nvz>that was surprisingly hard to figure out.. I figured it had to be in some settings daemon after some initial experimentation failed
04:54<nvz>then I had to just go fubar all my font settings to figure out what caused it to change :D
04:54<nvz>I need to find out if there is a tool for catching stuff in some human readable format from things like dconf and such
04:54<nvz>cause strace is practically useless for things that aren't in a file
04:55<nvz>need a real-time dconf or other such settings daemon monitor
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04:56<nvz>what we need is those guys who had written systeminternals to write some good utils like that for linux :P
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04:57<grummund>isn't that what Settings -> Appearance -> Fonts is for?
04:57<nvz>hell if I know
04:58<grummund>heh. :p
04:58<nvz>its like that joke.. what do you get if you cross an elephant with a rhino
04:58<nvz>elephino..
04:59<nvz>those system internals programs now owned by microsoft and rebranded winternals, are really slick utilities
04:59<nvz>I'd love to have a toolkit like that as easy to use on linux
04:59<nvz>that process explorer alone is like your average taskmanager on steroids with biometric implants
05:00<nvz>you can hover over the graphs and see what caused a particular spike, it does string searching within binaries, shows what ports a given thing has open.. etc
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05:00<nvz>with linux's proc filesystem and such that sort of tool should be real easy to make for someone skilled in such things
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05:05<nvz>hmm looks as if microsoft has already attempted doing this I found https://github.com/microsoft/ProcDump-for-Linux
05:05<nvz>they are porting some of the sysinternals to linux
05:06<nvz>the real-time gui monitors are what I'd be most interested in, we already have plenty of good cli tools
05:06<nvz>sewing it all together in an easy to use GUI is a different story
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05:58<supaman>nvz: brendan gregg at netflix has done some nice things with optimization, monitoring and stuff like that, see if he has any tools/insights that might help you http://www.brendangregg.com/
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06:00<nvz>supaman: I'll look into that.. seems to have a lot of stuff on there..
06:00<nvz>I am a long time user now.. I know how to do most things, but some simpler tools wouldn't hurt
06:03<supaman>nvz: right, like the sysinternals from windows, I like those also. What Brendan did was most use already made tools like BPF, iostat etc, collect the data into files and make a heatmap for the data
06:04<nvz>those sysinternals things were really nice utilities like the realtime registry, tcp, disk, etc monitors, the procexp was just a swiss army knife of a utility..
06:06<supaman>yup
06:06<tarzeau>i made that little knight rider led light thingy, does it work for you? (needs a keyboard with 3 leds) http://bootes.ethz.ch/led-indicator
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06:52<TempHorse>Is there any use of Assembly language coder for contribution on debian
06:57<TempHorse>?
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07:02<TempHorse>Is there any use of Assembly language coder for contribution on debian?
07:02<nvz>not really, not much more use than a question repeater
07:03<nvz>assembly language is only really used in bootloaders and kernels these days
07:04<nvz>so insignificant we don't even have a debtag for it :P
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07:06<TempHorse>But debian is updating its kernels
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07:08<nvz>Linux kernel 5.3-rc7: 96.5% C, 1.3% C++, 1.2% Assembly, 0.3% Objective-C, 0.3% Makefile, 0.2% Shell, 0.2% Other
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07:10<TempHorse>Got , any use of Java in contribution
07:10<TempHorse>Of debian
07:11<nvz>unfortunately there is plenty of java in debian but nothing particularly project-critical I can think of (thank any and all gods)
07:12<nvz>most useful languages in standard project tasks would be things like bash, python, perl, C
07:12<nvz>and on the web services side of course things like php and such
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07:12<TempHorse>Got it
07:13<nvz>really you may want to ask these sorts of things in an actual development channel like #debian-mentors
07:13<nvz>I'm just telling you personal opinions and what I know from using Debian since potato almost 20 years ago
07:13<nvz>talking to people who actually are DM or DD might be more useful
07:13<TempHorse>Omg 20 years!
07:14<nvz>well its almost.. I found debian shortly before Woody released, in like 2002ish
07:14<nvz>its more like 17-18 years
07:15<grove>You've only used Debian since potato? What a newbie. I've been on Debian since slink.
07:15<nvz>heh
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07:17<nvz>I like many had gone from the old days into the modern world as a window user.. and eventually got fed up with nonsense.. in my case a Win2k WMP update ending in a reboot loop was the last straw.. I'd bought RH 5.2 for $24, tried corel, hated them both, used Mandrake for a couple releases, then tried slack for a brief period while searching for the right fit.. and I found debian.org on distrowatch.. was a
07:17<nvz>rather plain looking site.. but I found the Why Debian? and Social Contract documents, read them, and I knew I was a Debian user and would probably never use anything else
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07:19<nvz>and I haven't strayed since.. cause Debian got its f'n priorities straight and its a wonderful community and project, and a very everyday usable OS that doesn't search the entire universe for drivers for a wireless hid dongle when I move it from one USB port where it was just working to another, like it's never seen one before.. and doesn't even NEED to reboot to upgrade a media player, much less get stuck in
07:19<nvz>an endless reboot loop..
07:20<nvz>it doesn't have an EULA, or NDAs to view its sources, it has a social conract which I don't even have to agree with to use it
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08:47<amoe>What's the general contract of 'purge'? i.e. should purge on a database package also delete user data stored in /var/lib/somedb?
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08:56<grove>Probably not. It's old (but in the short time I had to spend on this I couldn't find anything newer), but in the thread at In the https://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/1998/05/msg00084.html you can see some of PostgreSQL's and MySQL's thought
08:57<grove>s/In the // & s/$/s on the topic/
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10:54<finley>i enabled the backport repos and upgraded everything with them (incorrectly). could i still have a viable stretch installation if i downgrade/uninstall the backported packages and remove the repos from sources.list?
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10:57<yo>hello everyone, how can I use LUKS1 in the Debian 10 installer instead of LUKS2?
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10:59<salacontrol>epa
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11:12<ml|>finley: You can try downgrading them, but downgrading is not supported.
11:12<ml|>dpkg: downgrade
11:12<dpkg>Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
11:13<finley>fair enough. i'll look into those.
11:14<finley>so, i'd be on my own if i make things worse, correct?
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11:14<ml|>Yes.
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11:15<finley>got it, ml|. thank you.
11:15<ml|>If your whole system is all backports. The easiest thing to do is reinstall. But try what dpkg suggests first.
11:15<ml|>finley: No problem and ^^
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11:16<ml|>This will most likely not work, since all packages need to be downgraded.
11:17<finley>it isn't anywhere near all backports, but noted. so long as it's bootable, i could backup what in home and do buster a bit sooner than expected.
11:18<yo>so there is no way to force luks1?
11:19<ml|>finley: If needed /msg dpkg sdo to get any of the needed packages to downgrade/install.
11:19<ml|>Good Luck.
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11:20<finley>ml|: checking those topics now.
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11:22<ml|>finley: Keep in mind a doing a stretch->buster might also fail because of the packages from backports. A reinstall is your only choice then. But give it a try nothing to lose.
11:25<finley>wasn't planning on a dist upgrade, will just need to copy stuff from home. i don't mind reinstalling things.
11:26<ml|>Sounds a like a plan.
11:26<bremner>packages from (official) stretch backports are supposed to be upgradable to buster
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11:28<ml|>bremner: Is this new? Have always read in the release notes to uninstall backported packages before dist-upgrading and install afterwords.
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11:29*ml| Has not moved to buster yet or read the release notes.
11:31<finley>ml| ah, forgot for a second, will have to reinstall from scratch because of something that won't upgrade well.
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11:33<ml|>finley: You can try reinstalling said package first and try the other things afterwords. This will be a good learning experience.
11:34<ml|>Also what bremner said it's worth a shot. Unless you do not have the time, then a reinstall is the fastest way to resolve this.
11:34<finley>could try to find something with as few deps and dependants as possible.
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11:36<finley>https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#cryptsetup-luks2
11:36<finley>that's why reinstalling won't work.
11:36<finley>i mean, dist upgrading, gah, sorry for being confusing.
11:36<yo>^
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11:38<ml|>finley: Ah, then would just reinstall then :)
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11:42<finley>okay, will be busy uninstalling anything i know i installed from those repos to reduce the trouble, first. be back sometime.
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11:45<ml|>finley: Why uninstall anything if you will be reinstalling?
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11:47<finley>because i'd like to see what attempting to downgrade would do. not to do actually do it, but see how it affects everything.
11:48<ml|>Ah, yes good learning experience, have fun.
11:48*finley loves aptitude. :)
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11:51<TempHorse>What image I have to choose for Intel 64 bit processor
11:53<finley>https://www.debian.org/ports/#portlist-released
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11:53<finley>that's all of the officially supported architectures
11:54<TempHorse>Thanks
11:55<finley>np
11:55<TempHorse>I have 64 bit PC with 8 GB ram , can I run latest debian image on virtual box
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11:57<GyrosGeier>sure
11:57<GyrosGeier>64 bit PCs are "amd64"
11:57<GyrosGeier>because the instruction set was originally designed by AMD
11:58<TempHorse>Okay
11:58<Lonak94>Sorry. I need help. I'm trying to install Debian 10 on a iMac 2006 (Core 2 Duo t7200 - Mobility Radeon x1600, EFI32). How can i do that?
11:58<GyrosGeier>"ia64" is Intel's 64-bit instruction set, that's Itanium
11:58<GyrosGeier>you'd know if you had an Itanium box :)
11:59<TempHorse>:)
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12:00<finley>ml| thanks for the advice, but in the long run, it'll save time to do buster anyways. won't make the same mistake again.
12:00<TempHorse>So how amd64 release can run on ia64
12:04<Lonak94>I downloaded the multiarch iso image and flashed on usb drive. But when it finishes installing the screen freezes, but i can still reach the pc via ssh. What can i do to help you help me? :)
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12:11<blast007>TempHorse: ia64 is not a thing you have
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12:12<blast007>TempHorse: with virtualbox, I believe your option is to either run the i386 images or the amd64 images
12:12<TempHorse>Yes
12:12<Lonak94>Sorry. I need help. I'm trying to install Debian 10 on a iMac 2006 (Core 2 Duo t7200 - Mobility Radeon x1600, EFI32). I downloaded the multiarch iso image and flashed on usb drive. But when it finishes installing the screen freezes, but i can still reach the pc via ssh. What can i do to help you help me? :)
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12:14<TempHorse>Shall I got with 32bit or 64 bit is for virtual box configuration I have given above
12:14<TempHorse>go*
12:15<blast007>TempHorse: you may as well go with the amd64 one as that's likely what you'd end up running on real hardware
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12:17<TempHorse>Okay, got it sir, any ram preference as I got 8 GB only and will not run any other thing when running virtual box
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12:18<blast007>2 to 4GB should be enough
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12:18<TempHorse>Okay:)
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12:21<jhutchins_wk>Lonak94: Look at your logs. Find Xorg.0.log - very noisy but probably useful. Check /var/log/messages and dmesg | less.
12:22<jhutchins_wk>Lonak94: Can you switch to a console with Ctrl-alt-F1?
12:22<jhutchins_wk>(I know the keys are different on a Mac.)\
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12:27<Lonak94>When the pc boots the integrated screen freezes but i can connect to the mac through ssh.
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12:29<Lonak94>jhutchins_wk: Now i'm triing to reinstall Mac Os from the dvd. Later i will reinstall linux and i will look to the logs. Where i can contact you for further help?
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13:02<TempHorse>Hello i have to run debian on my virtual machine(VIRTUAL BOX) for now , i have intel 64 bit processor , 8 gb ram of my system.
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13:02<TempHorse>i got on this page https://www.debian.org/distrib/ to doenload the os
13:03<sney>the link labeled "64-bit PC netinst iso" is the correct option
13:03<TempHorse>and gone to this link complete installation image: 64-bit PC torrents (CD)
13:04<TempHorse>i shows two files debian-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso.torrent
13:04<TempHorse>debian-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso.torrent
13:04<TempHorse>what is the difference between the two
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13:05<sney>netinst requires a network connection to install the system. xfce-cd-1 does not, but has fewer available packages
13:07<TempHorse>network connection? will it be downloading at installing of the os on virtual machine?
13:07<sney>yes
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13:08<TempHorse>so i was whole os , nothing to be downloaded , from internet
13:08<TempHorse>want*
13:08<sney>then use the xfce-cd-1
13:09<TempHorse>but it will have fewer packages?
13:09<sney>the debian archive is too big to have on 1 cd.
13:09<TempHorse>well whats the cd dvd thing?
13:09<sney>if you get DVD-1 from the 64-bit pc torrents (DVD) link, it will have more available
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13:10<TempHorse>i have to install it on virtual machine , both are equal for me
13:10<sney>https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/debian-10.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso.torrent
13:11<wannabe-mirror>you can prepare a repository using debmirror to fit on a usb stick
13:11<wannabe-mirror>jigdo is the prefered way of downloading these days unless i'm mistaking
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13:11<sney>that is probably too advanced for this person ^^ just go with the dvd image
13:12<TempHorse>well i can use debmirror
13:12<TempHorse>there are 3 dvds
13:13<wannabe-mirror>use the first
13:13<TempHorse>i have to download all and then use debmirror
13:13<TempHorse>got it
13:14<bremner>honestly I think jigdo is only suitable for special cases in 2019
13:14<TempHorse>what is dvd 1 dvd2 and dvd3
13:14<TempHorse>on https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/
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13:16<wannabe-mirror>only more packages. likely nothing you can survive without in this case
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13:18<TempHorse>well i am very new to this debian
13:22<sney>then DVD1 is plenty
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13:25<TempHorse>how can i be 24x7 online to irc , any online server?
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13:27<sney>yes with a bouncer, look up znc
13:27<sney>there are free services or you can use a shell account sometimes. web search will help you
13:28<TempHorse>got it
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13:28<blast007>or with quassel core running on an always online machine, or with irssi or weechat (or similar) running in a screen or tmux session on an always online machine
13:29<TempHorse>okay there are many
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14:22<Asterisco>hi
14:24<Asterisco>i've found an error in debian.org website
14:25<Asterisco>how can i could contact the webmaster?
14:25<bremner>isn't there a link?
14:25<bremner>look at the bottom of the front page
14:26<Asterisco>oh yes!
14:26<Asterisco>thank you! ;)
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14:29<Asterisco>https://www.debian.org/releases/ In the italian version the link for buster is wrong
14:30<bremner>I suspect nobody here can fix that.
14:30<Asterisco>i've sent the email :)
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14:30<Asterisco>but in the english version is correct?
14:31<Asterisco>is correct :D
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14:40<user>111
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14:41<dboles>i have 112 but whatever, no big deal
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15:19<TempHorse>hi
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16:50<demo_>Falo portugues
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17:06<jerZey>whoa
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17:07<jerZey>peer too strong
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17:17<rob_debian>Hi all, please, I'd like to know where can I get the complete list of drivers and firmwares available on the debian .iso non-free. Sorry if it's considered an off-topic question here.
17:18<rob_debian>I discovered this list in the past, but don't remember where I got it anymore
17:19<jerZey>very good question
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17:22<jerZey>sudo apt list --installed
17:23<jerZey>https://packages.debian.org/stable/ ?
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17:48<rob_debian>Thanks for attention, jerZey, but I refer about debian iso non-free (which has tons of non-free firmwares and drivers)
17:48<rob_debian>I lost this list recently and don't remember where I got at first.
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18:08<ml|>jerZey: Perhaps this is what you are looking for? https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/10.0.0+nonfree/amd64/list-cd/
18:08<ml|>https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#list-image-contents
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18:14<ml|>rob_debian: ^^
18:14<ml|>oops, wrong nick
18:14<ml|>*earlier
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18:32<rob_debian>Back again. Oh, thank you very much for great support, ml| ! That's exactly what I was looking for :)
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19:36-!-aguinaldo is "Aguinaldo Alves" on #debian
19:37<aguinaldo>I formatted my computer and installed Debian 10 "Buster". Prior to installation, I downloaded a live DVD and used the system. At startup of the live DVD, does not appear or display a list of loading services, etc .... but when you install on the hard drive, when you start, appear or display and all the letters. This has been annoying to users. Consider installing a user-friendly boot as a live DVD, but do not have network access.
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19:41<sarnold>aguinaldo: is plymouth installed?
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20:12<bremner>ml|: the rules about backports have always been that they should be from the version in testing, which will in principle be in the next stable. I don't know about release notes; sometimes they can be a bit conservative. Is there backports discussion in the buster release notes?
20:15<ml|>bremner: Have not moved to buster. So have not read the release notes for buster; this is why I had asked. On older release notes have read what said earlier. Perhaps you are correct on being conservative.
20:17<bremner>ml|: yeah, hard to know without looking at the verbiage in question.
20:17<bremner>could have been some apt / aptitude bug also
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20:20<ml|>Indeed.
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20:51<rob_debian>Please, I would like to know if it is possible to install graphical libraries on Debian that are compatible with framework version 4.8 and not only 2.0
20:52<sarnold>what's framework 4.8? what's framework 2.0?
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21:03<rob_debian>Hi sarnold, thank you for attention. I was told there is a 'framework' for graphical environment in windows that is 4.8 version. Now, I don't know if my question made sense, but I'd like to know if de for debian is on the same level of microsoft OS. For me it's even better than any other operating system
21:06<annadane>um... no?
21:06<sarnold>rob_debian: hmm, do you mean like https://www.mono-project.com/ ?
21:06<annadane>yeah, maybe mono
21:07<rob_debian>Hi annadane, nice to see you :) yes, that's what I meant, thank you very much !
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21:07<annadane>"The latest Stable Mono release is: 6.0.0 Stable" uhh...
21:08<annadane>i suppose if you're on stretch it may still be on 2.0, i have no idea
21:09<annadane>it's hard to search for, i'm looking on packages.debian.org
21:09<sarnold>it's entirely possible mono's versioning is unrelated to "framework" versioning
21:09<rob_debian>No annadane, Mine's 'buster' here
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21:11<rob_debian>Please, sarnold, is that related to Linux ? .NET framework... I immediately think in windows when this terminology comes to my mind....
21:11<annadane>mono-complete stretch 4.6 buster 5.18...
21:11<sarnold>rob_debian: you mentioned windows and microsoft in your question, so I gave you a linux .net thing :) if that's not what you mean, you'll probably have to keep talking, hehe
21:12<annadane>if the newest mono is 6.0, 2.0 must have been ages ago
21:13<rob_debian>Oh, thank you for patience, sarnold :) In fact, I just would like to understand a little bit more about this subject. I'll read the articles from the link you've passed me. Really thank you very much !
21:14<sney>.net 2.0 is a legacy thing that is maintained separately from 4.x and up
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21:14<rob_debian>Hi sney, thank you for information :)
21:14<sney>or well, not really maintained, but they aren't fully compatible with each other so they still both exist
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21:15<sney>and mono would be the correct thing, yeah
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21:19<sqrt{not}>rob_debian: There are graphical environments on debian that are very good. at first you asked about a DE on debian "compatible" with the windows stuff. later you asked about debian DE that is "on the same level" as windows stuff. Does your debian need to connect real-time to some windows thing ?
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21:20<sqrt{not}>rob_debian: or are you just looking for some debian DE that looks and feels more like Windoze ?
21:22<rob_debian>Hi sqrt{not}, thanks for attention. In fact I was only trying to understand a windows user point of view related to graphical environments, and he told me about .net version, like it was informed for me by annadane, sarnold and sney. In fact, I'm 100% satisfied with my Debian installations and their respective de. For me, mate and kde plasma is even much better and more beautiful than any windows de.
21:23<rob_debian>sorry if my question seemed to be such confusing :)
21:23<sqrt{not}>rob_debian: it is all much simpler and cleaner, if it is _not_ necessary to interconnect the linux to the windows. That is possible, but unnatural
21:24<sarnold>rob_debian: ahhh; in windows land it used to be common for eg MSVC compiler to supply one set of gui primitives, the borland C++ compiler to supply a different set of gui widgets, and some pascal things to have their own sets of widgets, etc etc
21:25<rob_debian>oh, I don't have any interest on using debian to interconnect to windows.
21:25<sarnold>rob_debian: most of the others went into decline as users started to prefer windows native feel
21:26<sarnold>rob_debian: linux is a bit different, there's the ancient toolkits like motif, lesstif, tk, xaw, xaw3d, gtk, qt, fltk, enlightenment...
21:26<sarnold>rob_debian: and a lot of people mix and match the toolkits they use
21:28<rob_debian>I see sarnold, interesting this information about C++ to implement some gui widgets existing in windows. Personally I like debian (better saying: I love it !) completely, and all de resources I've installed in my stretch and buster installations are pretty wonderful !
21:29<rob_debian>Leaving for a lunch here. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support ! You are The Best, like Debian is !
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21:29<sarnold>have fun rob_debian :)
21:29<rob_debian>Thank you sarnold. God Bless you all !
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22:51<deltam>Hello, if i go to https://www.debian.org/Bugs and type "libgcc 32" into the "Include Bugs" box and then click "Submit" button, it returns "An error occurred. Error was: You have to choose something to select by". What am I doing wrong?
22:52<deltam>Correction: "Include Bugs with subject containing"
22:54<sarnold>adding something to the 'select bugs' field worked, but of course then you have to find some way to express how wide a net you want to cast when searching for these bugs
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23:11<deltam>sarnold, thanks for reply, but that feels uncomfortable to a newbie to the bug tag system. All the available "Select" choices seem narrow. How do I initially ignorantly restrict the scope of the search, when all of the suggested severities and tags feel like arbitrary restrictions. For example, I don't know if every bug that *affects* stretch tagged as "stretch", or if only bugs reported against stretch get that tag? Any guidance for that?
23:11<ach>!love
23:11<dpkg>Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra, which suddenly flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.
23:11<sarnold>deltam: yeah :/ I didn't see anything that looked like a good way to say "show everything" :(
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23:14<ach>Hi.
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23:17<sarnold>hello ach
23:19<ach>philoarytmetic
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23:59<ach>Can i reload the terminal driver?
---Logclosed Wed Sep 04 00:00:59 2019