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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-09-07

---Logopened Sat Sep 07 00:00:03 2019
00:04-!-dboehmer [] has joined #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:17-!-annadane_ is now known as annadane
00:17<annadane>stupid irc...
00:21-!-TempHorse [~hello@2409:4063:2083:13d:b4b1:a999:1c6e:4019] has joined #debian
00:21-!-TempHorse is "realname" on #debian
00:22<TempHorse>when i run apt-get install anything
00:22<TempHorse>it shows insert the dvd
00:22<TempHorse>i want to do it online
00:23<annadane>TempHorse, comment out the entries that say dvd or cd rom or whatever in your sources.list
00:24<annadane>as root, editor /etc/apt/sources.list, find the entires that say cd rom, put a # in the very beginning of the line, close the editor, apt update
00:24<annadane>or apt edit-sources
00:24<annadane>you'll probably get nano so just control x to close it when you're done making changes
00:26<TempHorse>that is done
00:26<TempHorse>now it shows unable to locate package
00:27<annadane>what package?
00:27<annadane>type this: cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc 9999
00:28<TempHorse>what it will do
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00:30-!-Orbitrix is "..." on #python #i2p #debian #C
00:30<annadane>it will post your sources.list to a paste site so i can look at it
00:32<annadane>yeah, you only have a security repo
00:32<annadane>!buster sources.list
00:32<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb buster main" "deb buster/updates main", and optionally "deb buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list".
00:32<annadane>you only have debian-security as your one repository
00:33<annadane>so that's why you can't find hexchat
00:33<annadane>let me post mine and you can copy it
00:34<annadane> ignore wine, and contrib non-free is up to you, but yeah
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00:35<TempHorse>copy paste it?
00:35<TempHorse>do everyone who had done new installation have to do this?
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00:35<sney>only line 7
00:36<sney>most people who do new installations use the netinst, which fills this in by default. but you insisted on doing an offline install.
00:36<annadane>no, not everyone has to
00:36<annadane>so yeah, feel free to copy paste the debian lines
00:36<annadane>or just listen to what dpkg posted above
00:36<annadane>ignore the wine entry in my sources list
00:36<sney>or try something unrelated and complain that it doesn't work /grump
00:38<TempHorse>well i did something wrong whole file is gone!
00:40<TempHorse>sney i m learning new things out there
00:40<TempHorse>its okay to do wrong , then only i m getting right
00:41<TempHorse>and i duckduckgo what u said yesterday
00:41<TempHorse>not googled it
00:41<TempHorse>well my file is gone , can you help me now?
00:42<annadane>you can just use the editor again, apt edit-sources or editor /etc/apt/sources.list
00:43<TempHorse>how to paste in nano
00:44-!-Araluen [] has joined #debian
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00:44<annadane>i'm not sure if there's a keyboard shortcut but you can highlight stuff with the mouse (if you're within xorg right now, in other words if you're not just stuck at the command line) and middle click to paste
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00:45<TempHorse>okay now its copying with ctrl + v
00:45<TempHorse>well tell me what to copy
00:46<annadane>look just type these, on separate lines: deb buster main, deb buster/updates main and deb buster-updates main, and you can add contrib or non-free after main to all of these but that's up to you
00:47<annadane>buster-updates is technically optional, but why not i guess
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00:51<TempHorse>man there are some non free one?
00:52<TempHorse>do i have to copy that also?
00:52<annadane>it depends on what non-free software you use
00:52<annadane>i would just add it anyway, you'll probably want it later
00:52<annadane>i'd at least install microcode for example, depending on your processor
00:52<TempHorse>got it
00:53<dpkg>Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: Reference manual: FAQ: - reading is also a very good idea.
00:53<annadane>i might read some of that, if you're new to debian
00:54<annadane>not necessarily all of it, but it's good stuff. DontBreakDebian is probably the most important
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00:59<TempHorse>finally done
00:59<TempHorse>thanks again
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01:00<TempHorse>well i m on virtual , dont worry if i even break lol
01:00<TempHorse>i had a copy
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01:01<TempHorse>okay one last think how to turn off animations?
01:04<nvz>you mean compositing? which DE?
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01:34<TempHorse>how r u man?
01:34<debianos>nice what about u
01:34<TempHorse>nice here too
01:35<debianos>good to hear that
01:35<TempHorse>thanks , man
01:36<TempHorse>plz let it be a serious channel
01:36<debianos>okay abcd.....
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03:44<phenomenal>hey there
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03:53<onixiya>Does there have to be a rules file in a deb package? Can it be empty or does something need to be in it?
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06:56<ghost404>Hi, I'm trying to run steam using a separate user, but it seems setting DRI_PRIME does not have effect when su'ed into another user
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07:20<TobiX>ghost404: Probably because only users with a "session" get access to all your hardware
07:24<ghost404>any clues what it might be? I only knew the video group
07:25<abrotman>so set the variable for that user?
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07:27<ghost404>emmm, what variable?
07:27*ghost404 confused
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08:27<safinaskar>how to convert existing debian installation to uefi boot? is this possible?
08:27<safinaskar>i have gpt disk without uefi system partition
08:27<safinaskar>the disk has ext4 partition with debian installed
08:27<safinaskar>system boots usual way, i. e. legacy boot -> grub -> linux
08:27<safinaskar>is this possible to change everything to uefi boot? is there some step-by-step guide? without reinstalling os?
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10:13<x44>good morning/afternoon, i have a small problem with my audio devices, both my front and back panels work but i can't seem to figure out how to make the two have separate streams through either pulseaudio or alsa's tools
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10:33<nvz>x44: you mean you want to play different audio through each one?
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10:34<nvz>x44: aplay -l|nc 9999
10:36<nvz>x44: if they are two different devices thats easy, if not.. it may not be possible
10:37<nvz>x44: any idea what the card 0 device 1 digital output is?
10:37<MKM>Hi everyone! Have a problem ask for help. How to avoid typing root passwords when open a NTFS partition in Debian? Thanks :)
10:38<cacatoes>MKM: hi, short answer: declare it as mountable by users in your /etc/fstab
10:38<nvz>x44: it may or may not be mapped to anything on your machine idk..
10:39<MKM>WOw,thanks cacatoes!!:D You are fast and great:)
10:39<nvz>x44: but at a glance it doesnt look like your front/rear analog ports are different devices
10:40<cacatoes>MKM: try with tools like pmount too, haven't tried with ntfs but they'll guess the right mount options and mount it in /media
10:40<nvz>x44: I have a T440 thinkpad and when I hook my tv to my mini-displayport with a minidp-hdmi dongle I can play seperate streams through my tv and my laptops speakers or headphone ports and a third stream over bluetooth if I want.
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10:40<x44>nvz: i'm actually not sure what that might be, i just figured one was front and one was rear
10:41<nvz>x44: from the look of it, you have the hdmi audio out via some nvidia device that you could use for a second stream
10:41<x44>nvz: if it's any help my mobo is a gigabyte z370
10:41<MKM>OK cacatoes.I will follow your advice :) you are kind man:)
10:41<x44>nvz: yeah, that's audio out from my graphics card's hdmi
10:41<nvz>x44: the Realtek ALC892 has analog and digital outs.. the digital is an spdif not a normal analog
10:42<x44>nvz: do you think just changing my rear panel from analog to digital out would work?
10:42<nvz>x44: seems they have a whole line matching that description
10:43<x44>nvz: it's the one described as op rev 1.0
10:43<x44>nvz: hd3
10:43<nvz>x44: yes if one was on digital and one on analog that would probably work.. but digital requires a device that has spdif
10:43<nvz>x44: the first one then I guess
10:47<nvz>x44: I dont see an optical jack on there so I guess it does spdif over coax by switching one of the analog phono ports to spdif
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10:47<nvz>x44: but that would still require a device that supports spdif digital audio to connect to it
10:48<x44>nvz so i'd probably need a 3.5mm to toslink converter?
10:48<nvz>x44: na, looking at the spec it says it supplies a header for spdif
10:48<nvz>apparently it doesnt have a jack for it
10:49<nvz>x44: but that is a seperate device and any seperate cards/devices could be mapped to different apps in pulseaudio easily
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10:50<x44>nvz: i figured that as well but i haven't found any of the solutions i've seen online to work so far
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10:52<nvz>x44: I can show you if ya gimme a minute
10:52<x44>nvz: sure
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11:03<nvz>x44: yeah I was experimenting technical differences screencasting.. heh.. lemme do it one more time :P
11:03<x44>nvz: no biggie
11:04<nvz>I never had this issue before but I upped the fps, plus I was streaming multiple things to multiple sound devices
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11:04<TempHorse>how to run synaptic
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11:07<nvz>kinda busy right this minute
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11:07<TempHorse>okay carry on
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11:11<nvz>I just realized the limits of my hardware, having bluetooth connected to a speaker, screencasting, streaming netflix, streaming youtube, two different audio outputs..
11:11<nvz>it was getting a bit laggy
11:11<nvz>TempHorse: what DE are you using, do you even have synaptic installed?
11:12<TempHorse>what to type in terminal to start it
11:13<cacatoes>TempHorse: I haven't the full story but synaptic has issues with Wayland, it could work with Xwayland (compatibility layer)
11:13<nvz>pkexec synaptic
11:14<nvz>cacatoes: you probably mean synaptics
11:14<nvz>completely different things
11:14<x44>nvz: the problem is that i have just the one output device, labeled in volume control as Built-in Analog Stereo
11:14<nvz>,i synaptic
11:14<judd>Package synaptic (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Graphical package manager. Version: 0.84.6; Size: 2033.7k; Installed: 7811k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
11:14<x44>i can choose between Headphones nad Line Out, but it just make the volume slightly lower
11:15<nvz>x44: yes, because you don't have spdif or hdmi which are your only other devices, connected, and they are digital.. digital knows if its connected or not unlike analog.. they only show up when they're actually connected
11:15<bremner>weirdly, I think synaptic did have problems with wayland
11:15<nvz>x44: and I was using pulse audio volume control, which you have to install
11:15<TempHorse>it says no such file or directory
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11:15<nvz>TempHorse: pkexec synaptic
11:16<x44>nvz: sorry, i was referring to pavucontrol
11:16<nvz>,i pavucontrol
11:16<judd>Package pavucontrol (sound, optional) in buster/amd64: PulseAudio Volume Control. Version: 3.0-4; Size: 123.2k; Installed: 929k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
11:16<TempHorse>yes no such file
11:16<TempHorse>and i have installed
11:16<cacatoes>nvz: aha, yes I hope I'm wrong, I probably had misread things.
11:16<nvz>x44: its not done on the devices tab, its done on the playback tab and you have to have other devices connected
11:17<x44>nvz: i don't have the ability to switch devices under playback
11:17<TempHorse>I have installed synaptic , and when i typed what u said , i says no such file
11:17<nvz>TempHorse: is there a reason why you're being difficult and not just telling me which DE you're using like I asked?
11:17<nvz>TempHorse: pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic
11:18<TempHorse>what is DE
11:18<nvz>TempHorse: GNOME, KDE Plasma, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, LXDE, LXQT
11:18<cacatoes>well... #818366
11:18<judd>Bug in synaptic (closed): «synaptic: fails to start under Wayland»; severity: serious; opened: 2016-03-16; last modified: 2019-09-04.
11:18<TempHorse>i have two GNOME and Mate
11:18<nvz>cacatoes: yeah well, thats facinating but right now we just have pebcak and $PATH issues
11:18<nvz>TempHorse: which one are you using?
11:19<TempHorse>in which i m currently running mate
11:19<nvz>TempHorse: System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager
11:19<TempHorse>i ran
11:19<TempHorse>it ran
11:19<TempHorse>by ur command pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic
11:20<TempHorse>u r genius
11:20<nvz>TempHorse: I'm a fart smeller..
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11:20<nvz>as you can see its in the mate menu
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11:22<x44>nvz: i just find it odd because with my previous setup both devices were able to be chosen separately without problem
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11:23<TempHorse>whats the difference between fonts and fonts(contrib)
11:23<dpkg>[contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb [stretch|buster|sid] main contrib" to your /etc/apt/sources.list, then «aptitude update». Also ask me about <non-free>, <contrib list>.
11:25<TempHorse>debian is racist in software
11:25<nvz>TempHorse: there are three sections to debian repositories: main contrib non-free.. main includes software that is Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) compliant, contrib is stuff that falls under DFSG but depends on something that isn't, and non-free is stuff that isn't DFSG
11:25<nvz>TempHorse: yeah well we can't have them packages thinking they can drink out of the same fountain and ride in the front of the bus
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11:28<nvz>TempHorse: Debian, unlike commercial software with End-User License Agreements (EULAs), has a Social Contract and in that social contract it makes a promise to be 100% free.. free as in total freedom.. to use, modify, distribute, etc.. and if we didnt segregate, then we'd be violating that contract.. and if we just didnt include contrib/non-free stuff we'd also be violating that contract by saying you're not
11:28<nvz>free to use that stuff too
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11:30<TempHorse>thats true too
11:32<grummund>is there a GUI way to add menu items in xfce?
11:32<nvz>the segregation is to insure that those who want a totally free system with complete freedom to use, modify, distribute, profit from, etc.. they can do so.. but at the same time we must provide access to non-free stuff to allow user freedom.. its the only way to keep the promises in the contract
11:32<nvz>grummund: menulibre
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11:34<grummund>nvz: tvm
11:35<nvz>grummund: wetm
11:35<nvz>or maybe its just wtm.. idk..
11:35<nvz>whatever that means
11:36<grummund>thank you very much
11:36<nvz>thanks very much perhaps.. *shrug*
11:36<nvz>the namespace of acronyms has gotten a tad cluttered
11:37<grummund>tla (3 letter acronym)
11:37<grummund>(extended 3 letter acronym)
11:37<nvz>grummund: I find menulibre a bit cumbersome but it works.. allows you to leave entries there but make them not show up.. which is nice
11:38<nvz>I thought about making a tool to address use of multiple desktops cause there is a provision for ShowOnlyIn in the .desktop spec..
11:38<nvz>and when you want to have multiple DE you wind up with many calculators, editors, etc from each one
11:38*grummund has a few 3rd party apps in /opt that need adding
11:39<nvz>basically you have the global /usr/share/applications/ then the local ~/.local/share/applications/ and menulibre maintains your changes in the local side
11:40<grummund>yeah i just rather not faff with editing config files (in this case)
11:41<nvz>I usually just make launchers.. like the drawer I have on my panel with the xfinity icon has my xfinity voice, xfinity stream, xfinity xfi, and netflix which I have setup to run in custom firefox profiles with UserCrome.css which removes all the UI from the windows to make them appear like standalone apps
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11:43<nvz>drawers and launchers are even less fuss than using menulibre
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11:44<nvz>its a more native UI than having to use a standalone app or fuss with config files
11:45<nvz>and usually custom stuff you want easier access to than going through the normal menu anyhow
11:45*grummund notices "Games" and "Other" in MenuLibre that are not showing in the desktop menu
11:46<grummund>ah, Games is empty and Other only has hidden items
11:48<nvz>grummund: yeah.. like I said, certain aspects of it are rather cumbersome :P
11:50<nvz>grummund: xfce doesn't have drawers like mate does, but the launcher can be setup to behave as a drawer..
11:51<nvz>grummund: you can add a "launcher" to your panel and make it a "menu/drawer" and then put other custom launchers inside.. I find that more useful and simple for doing custom stuff to have easy access to it
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11:51<nvz>grummund: and thats all doable just by clicking about your panel and using the native xfce4-panel ui.. no need for menulibre
11:52<grummund>nvz: thanks
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11:52*grummund does use launchers too
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12:18<TempHorse>what is ban list
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12:38<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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12:48<MKM>Hi,how is it going today? I want to install newer linux kernel in Debian 10 KDE because my laptop fan in linux kernel edition 4.19 is very noisy.So I want to try to install newer kernel.What should I do? thanks everyone :) (forgive me my poor English :D)
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12:55<nvz>,v linux-image-amd64
12:55<judd>Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u6; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u7; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.9+80+deb9u9; stretch-backports: 4.19+105~bpo9+1; bullseye: 4.19+105; buster: 4.19+105; buster-proposed-updates: 4.19+105+deb10u1; buster-backports: 5.2+106~bpo10+1; sid: 5.2+106
12:55<nvz>MKM: 5.2 is now in backports
12:55<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
12:56<nvz>MKM: you will need to add the source and use -t buster-backports
12:57<MKM>Good.Thanks nvz! I must learn from you,a master :D
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13:00<nvz>idk about that.. most of what I learned started with installing screen and irssi and staying here for over 15 years
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13:01<nvz>well technically on freenode, but came here after I gave up being annoyed with Debian switching networks
13:01<nvz>freenode is still where it's at for me though.. I just hang out here to help out on all fronts
13:01<metreo>which channel specifically?
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13:04<nvz>I hang out in multiple channels on both networks but #debian is where it all started for me about 17 years or so ago
13:06<nvz>I never bothered reading about the official reasons for the switch, I just know what I saw and what I felt when Debian moved to OFTC and it seemed like it did little more than fragment the community for awhile.. freenode's #debian is still a larger channel, many of us long time supporters still focus our energy there, and many of the other projects which makeup debian's software are still on freenode.. as a
13:07<nvz>Debian user the only thing you need OFTC for is all the other long list of debian channels that moved here.. and thats why its just still fragmented even though many of us now operate on both networks
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13:26<TempHorse>how to install anaconda
13:26<TempHorse>on debian
13:27<dpkg>You often get no answer when nobody knows how to solve a problem, and they decide not to bother you with their ignorance; it is not meant as disrespect. Also: Did you include enough information in your question to make it answerable? (see <smart questions>)
13:27<bremner>or, you might need to wait longer than 1 minute.
13:28<dpkg>somebody said anaconda was the installation program used by Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Fedora and some other distributions (e.g. <Progeny>).
13:28<sney>this? or something else
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13:35<cmm11>it's likely
13:35<cmm11>(python stuff)
13:36<sney>But that site has linux download links right on it. Surely they don't need help clicking twice.
13:37-!-unixboy1 [~unixboy4@] has quit []
13:37<bremner>a more interesting question is how to install anacodonda via apt. The answer is less interesting; you can't
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13:40<TempHorse>well why
13:40<TempHorse>apt failed
13:42<TempHorse>pythin stuff anaconda
13:42<TempHorse>python daddy
13:43<rob_debian>Hi all, please, I tried to update && upgrade my debian buster here to 10.1. At first, it was displayed this message: 'Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend' - there were packages to be upgraded through 'apt list --upgradable' But, when I tried to repeat the process, it wasn's possible to proceed anymore....
13:44<TempHorse>okay tell me how to install eclipse
13:44<TempHorse>eclipse IDE
13:44<TempHorse>latest version
13:45<rob_debian>Curiously It's updated && upgraded already: cat /etc/debian_version -> 10.1 Please, what has happened here ?
13:45<sney>rob_debian: there was probably a background process running the upgrade for you. do you have unattended-upgrades installed?
13:45<sney>there are also some DE widgets that can do this, like Discover under KDE
13:46-!-olivierb [] has joined #debian
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13:47<rob_debian>Hi All packages are up to date
13:47<nvz>sney: they don't like being called widgets, they're little UI elements! :P
13:48<rob_debian>Hi sney, nice to meet you :). No, sney, in fact, now there is this message: All packages are up to date
13:48<sney>element shmelement
13:48<sney>rob_debian: you did not answer my question, but whatever.
13:48<sney>it sounds like everything is fine now
13:49<rob_debian>oh, sorry. No sney, it seems I don't have any unattended-upgrades anymore
13:49<rob_debian>at least in this case
13:49<sney>unattended-upgrades is a debian package that runs apt upgrades automatically.
13:50<rob_debian>I see, sney, but, please, is there any command that advice me about that ?
13:50<rob_debian>that tells me upgrades were done in background automatically ?
13:51<sney>'apt policy unattended-upgrades' will tell you if it's installed
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13:51<sney>then look in the usual config directories for setup rules
13:51<rob_debian>fine !, let me do it now. thank you for information and great support, sney !
13:52<TempHorse>plz help me
13:52<sney>TempHorse: fine. What have you tried so far?
13:53<TempHorse>i am on virtual box
13:53<TempHorse>installed debian os
13:53<rob_debian>Please sney, take a look on it: It seems it's ok now
13:53<TempHorse>its window size is now what i like , how to change its window size
13:54<sney>TempHorse: do you have the virtualbox guest additions installed?
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13:56<TempHorse>what is a good size on desktop
13:56<sney>I believe there is an option in the vbox guest window like "insert guest additions disc" or something like that. this will mount a virtual cdrom that has an installer for the guest utilities. Run the installer, reboot the vm after, and everything should be normal afterwards
13:57<sney>(debian used to provide a package for the guest utils but not anymore. probably due to oracle licensing.)
13:57<sney>"good size?" what?
13:57<TempHorse>i mean xxxx px :xxxx px
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13:57<TempHorse>width is to height
13:57<sney>what defines good? what's your use case? How big is your screen? There are too many variables for one answer of "good"
13:58<bremner>sney: it's in unstable/contrib
13:58<sney>bremner: but no stable or testing, which implies that there's a reason for that
13:59<TempHorse>is a medium size
13:59<bremner>sney: yeah. It's more oracle being difficult than a specific license issue afaik
13:59<TempHorse>it is of medium size
13:59<sney>what on earth does that mean
13:59<sney>you. "medium." I am not in the room with you and I have no idea what you mean by that
14:00<sney>whatever, just install the guest additions and resize it with the handles
14:00<TempHorse>but i am host
14:00<sney>have you looked for the menu option I told you about?
14:01<TempHorse>do i have install it on debian os or windows 10
14:01<sney>on debian.
14:01<sney>the guest additions are software that tells your debian os that it is running in virtualbox, and lets them interact with each other
14:02<TempHorse>so debian do not know i m running on virtualbox
14:02<TempHorse>i have told it its on vb
14:02<sney>not without the guest additions
14:03<TempHorse>i have put the name of the os as VirtualBoxDebian
14:03<TempHorse>]pretty interesting
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14:05<TempHorse>windows 10 is lot easy
14:05<TempHorse>it shows everyday new wallpaper
14:05-!-dvs [] has quit [Quit: Outta here!]
14:06<sney>what will they think of next.
14:06<TempHorse>and it has MS Office install which costs only 350$
14:06<rob_debian>Other question: is that possible downgrading just one specific package in debian buster ? For example: I'd like to use the previous version of 'lxterminal', not this current version 0.3.2
14:07<sney>rob_debian: downgrade is not natively supported. the easiest way is to uninstall the newer version and then manually install the older version with dpkg -i
14:07<sney>but sometimes this doesn't work especially if there are new dependencies
14:07<bremner>but then you lose security support too
14:07<TempHorse>why do you guys dont use whatsapp group service or discord, why irc
14:07<rob_debian>On the previous version, cursor blinks always, not only for 10 seconds, even when it's adjusted to blink all the time, without interruption. I like cursor blinking always, like it does in 'konsole'
14:08<sney>TempHorse: proprietary services are not in line with the debian philosophy
14:08<rob_debian>I see sney, sorry for that and thank you for hint
14:09<rob_debian>Hi bremner. Well, even if I'll use a 'stretch' package ?
14:09<TempHorse>debian is banned from discord???
14:09<sney>rob_debian: it might be possible to change that setting, the docs might have a hint
14:09<bremner>TempHorse: discord is not free software
14:09<bremner>also, the people running discord are jerks
14:09<TempHorse>it is free , only if u dont buy nitros
14:09<sney>TempHorse: remember reading about DFSG a few days ago? the debian project works within free software whenever possible. discord/whatsapp/slack/telegram/etc/whatever are not free software
14:10<rob_debian>probably it requires any development task. Ok, thank you very much for information, sney and bremner !
14:10<sney>not free as in money, free as in freedom.
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14:10<TempHorse>well whatsapp is free.
14:10<TempHorse>it is , i dont pay whatsapp per month
14:10<bremner>TempHorse: it's not open source, if you find that less confusing
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14:11<bremner>the people running whatsapp are also jerks, but I digress
14:11<sney>I mean, Torvalds is kind of a jerk, it's not really relevant
14:11<TempHorse>what are jerks?
14:12<bremner>by jerks both facebook and discord actively work to reduce user privacy and software freedom
14:12<bremner>they are the enemy, basically.
14:12<TempHorse>okay jerk is a group of people
14:13<TempHorse>but i use whatsapp , will debian ban me?
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14:13<bremner>TempHorse: jerk is an English insult meaning obnoxious person
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14:13<bremner>TempHorse: no, debian doesn't care what you do\
14:14<TempHorse>i hope debian dont disturb privacy
14:15<TempHorse>i mean i have seen people iphones hacked, and maybe windows and debian can also be hacked.
14:15<bremner>TempHorse: have you tried chatting on #debian-offtopic? it seem you mostly want to chat rather than get support
14:15<TempHorse>okay but discord is free
14:15<TempHorse>read its policies
14:16<bremner>TempHorse: it's not open source software
14:16<amacater>TempHorse - Just beause softwre is free to download/use doesn't mean it's free software and that Debian can distribute it
14:16<bremner>when we say "free software", we mean open source, plus an attitude
14:16<dpkg>DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see
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14:17<TempHorse>i know that , i have read it fully
14:18<sney>with IRC, the software is completely free and open. Anyone can run an IRC server, change/modify the code, do whatever they want and never have to be connected or registered with a single service or entity. It's a little outdated in some ways but it is completely free in ways that newer messaging systems aren't doing
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14:18<TempHorse>but ip is always gone with irc and ddos can be ur friend
14:19<sney>there are things you can do in irc to stop people from seeing your ip. ddos is mostly mitigated by having networks, instead of standalone servers
14:19<TempHorse>i have made a ddos irc script , which runs on google server and hangs people
14:19<sney>good for you. don't use it.
14:20<rob_debian>Please sney, how old is this application we use here ? - irc
14:20<sney>rob_debian: the original RFC for the IRC protocol was released in 1993
14:20<TempHorse>yes irc is old , and waste , use something new
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14:20<TempHorse>where we can do video chat
14:20<sney>TempHorse: you are free to leave any time you want.
14:20<rob_debian>fine, thank you :)
14:21<TempHorse>maybe teleportation
14:22<TempHorse>make app which can do teleportation , and which always delet itself in order to remain new
14:22<sney>TempHorse: if you don't have a debian question, please don't clutter the channel
14:22<TempHorse>okay sorry
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14:25<TempHorse>debian uses openjdk?
14:25<TempHorse>not oracle jdk?
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14:27<sney>correct. oracle jdk's license isn't comaptible with debian. But there is a utility available in 'java-package' that can repackage java from oracle so it can be installed with dpkg
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14:28<TempHorse>i mean both are same in most manner on oracle jdk is more stable
14:29<TempHorse>as it gets same updates one month later
14:30<TempHorse>i mean there could be a greater chance of security flaw with openjdk.
14:30<sney>yes, oracle doesn't care about software freedom and many people running java on linux use oracle jdk in production
14:30<sney>that doesn't change debian's policy
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14:31<TempHorse>but that requires more working, for same output
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14:32<TempHorse>the thing is that oracle cant afford to go on different direction from open jdk , as the will have a very bad effect in future updates
14:32<amacater>TempHorse: Please go away and spend some time reading the Debian wiki / Debian mailing lists to try and absorb some of the culture that informs Debian
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14:34<TempHorse>okay bye
14:34-!-TempHorse [~hello@] has left #debian [Leaving]
14:36<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
14:36<sney>it's just temphorse again with a different nick
14:36<sney>same ip
14:36<dpkg>Don't talk back to me or you're going to be sorry!
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14:39<sney>debianos: do not private message people without asking
14:39-!-James is now known as Guest2031
14:39<debianos>very sorry
14:40<blast007>no you're not
14:41<debianos>i mean this is not going to happen in future
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14:45<debianos>i was have an ip config file the support tunneling via software'
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14:46<debianos>so its ip has a open port
14:46<debianos>Jesse Rhodes
14:46<debianos>next i think you guys can assume why i am have a same ip
14:46<sney>do you have a point to make about something or are you just trying to be annoying
14:47<debianos>i was saying i somehow managed to use his ip.
14:48<sney>believe me, bud, you are not the first person to use linux for a few hours and then decide they are a hacker like on TV
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14:49<debianos>haha irc is old and do not require that
14:49<sney>Most of the people in this channel are IT ops professionals. you can't make up stuff about open ports and expect people to believe you are magically hacking the gibson
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14:49<debianos>great i am very happy
14:50<sney>and again, if you don't have a debian question, please don't clutter the channel. someone will be along to ban you if you persist.
14:50<debianos>but its not my ip
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14:54<debianos>now check my ip
14:55<blast007>In Gnome on Buster, is there a way (extension or otherwise) to switch the file open/save browser to use icon/tile view instead of list view?
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15:00<debianos>TopIcons Plus
15:02<debianos>and after
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15:02<fdelapena>there's a topicons plus alternative I recommenda called KStatusNotifierItem/AppIndicator Support
15:03<blast007>my question is about the file open/save browser, not the top/bottom bar..
15:03<fdelapena>that's application specific
15:04<debianos>its a application
15:04<blast007>in the actual Files application, you can switch between list and icon view, but I'm not seeing the same option in, say, the Firefox open/save dialog
15:05<debianos>do you mean application? File manager type
15:05<fdelapena>GNOME applications use a standard GTK dialog, it was designed to display previews on the right side if the app supports it, but icon feature is not available as far as I know
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15:05<debianos>i think its in development
15:06<debianos>i saw something related some days back
15:07<fdelapena>I guess you mean this
15:08<fdelapena>note the button bar at the bottom
15:09<fdelapena>icon tool (icon preview) is a different, unrelated thing:
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15:12<blast007>fdelapena: ah, yeah, looks like that's what I was hoping for. so maybe in a later Debian/Gnome release. thanks for the info. :)
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15:13<fdelapena>you're welcome, and thanks to debianos for pointing into that, long time without visiting Planet GNOME blogs, they publish lots of work-in-progress there :)
15:14<debianos>fdelapena you are welcome :-)
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15:30<xormor>laluos, hi
15:30<laluos>how to get data warranty from debian?
15:32<bremner>laluos: is there some reason you keep changing your nick?
15:33<laluos>its an internal script , make it so
15:33<laluos>i hope its no-ones business
15:34<bremner>it makes you look like you are trying to hide something
15:34<bremner>and reinforces my suspicions that you are trolling this channel.
15:34<laluos>you know for security reasons. i dont want my real ip to be exposed
15:34<LilyLiu>Hello. the Discover Software Center sometimes crashes in Debian 10 plasma desktop to solve this problem ? very confused.
15:35<LilyLiu>I just installed.Not install other software.
15:35<bremner>laluos: your ip is constant, that's how I know it's you who keeps changing your nick. You want a cloak, and you can get one in #oftc
15:36<laluos>i know brother , but its also keep changing from time to time
15:37<laluos>only thing is that , it do not something people observe
15:38<laluos>Tor_ip_dam_overstay_time_exposer its the script , open one u can see online
15:40<laluos>bremner do you know project Tor
15:42<laluos>great the script is taken from there
15:42<piper>laluos: do a search on how many people get busted using tor, it's not as private as you think
15:42<laluos>no worries now i guess
15:43<laluos>man its not like that what you guys think
15:43<laluos>tor is super secure if you code yourself
15:43<lord_chris>Can people just write down his IP and stop responding to him.
15:43<laluos>why brother
15:44<piper>laluos: yeah, i have a bridge to sell you
15:44<annadane>debian folks are pretty well versed in security; i'd listen to what they say instead of brushing it off
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15:44<laluos>maybe , maybe not , i see hundred of passwords files from one of ur area everyday
15:45*piper back to bonghits
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15:45<bremner>great, actual support seaking person left
15:46<laluos>i hope everyone open that site?
15:46<annadane>stop bothering us
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15:46<laluos>why are you all annoyed by me?
15:46<laluos>i am a normal guy.
15:47<annadane>anyway, "data warranty" is a pretty general question
15:47<annadane>you mean how do you protect against corruption?
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15:48<annadane>there's a certain type of person who identifies as a hacker type who gets defensive whenever anything gets asked
15:49<annadane>no you don't understand, *i* know stuff
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15:51<lord_chris>Ignore <katios>
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15:52<bremner>itym /ignore *@
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15:53<bremner>maybe /ignore *!*@
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16:00<lord_chris>bremner: Thank you :-)
16:02<lord_chris>bremner: I forgot about that command
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16:02<bremner>yeah, it's a bit tricky, the syntax varies from client to client
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16:04<lord_chris>bremner: I have not used IRC in years
16:05<iamnk>I have a question about aptitude update
16:08<iamnk>two different machines with same source.list file are behaving differently
16:08<iamnk>aptitude install works fine for both
16:09<iamnk>aptitude update finds security updates for one but not the other
16:09<iamnk>please help
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16:09<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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16:11<annadane>what is the way to leave lightdm installed but not have it autostart? mask it?
16:13<annadane>so that i don't get a login prompt and that it drops me into the CLI so i can startx
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16:16<lord_chris>annedane: Link to stackexchange
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16:18<annadane>oh, cool. thanks.
16:18<annadane>also, pls use tab completion for username pings
16:19<annadane>or else i don't get notified
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16:24<iamnk>dpkg: thank you. I sent the output of the aptitude run and apt-cache policy. No packages are mentioned anywhere
16:24<dpkg>de nada, iamnk
16:25<sney>iamnk: dpkg is a bot, if you pasted something you need to share the link in the channel
16:26<iamnk>sney thank you.
16:26<iamnk>here are the links.
16:26<iamnk>apt-cache policy:
16:27<iamnk>sudo aptitude update output:
16:31<lord_chris>annadane: How does tab completion work? I have not used IRC in a while.
16:31<annadane>lord_chris, type the first few letters of someone's name and press tab
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16:32<annadane>of course there's no need to highlight someone every single line, but it's nice to know the person asking a question doesn't have to check irc every single second to know they've been replied to
16:32<lord_chris>annadane, Like this?
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16:32<annadane>yep, i get pinged
16:32<lord_chris>annadane, Thank you :-)
16:32<annadane>ironically, i didn't tab complete you in order to tell you to use tab completion :P
16:33<lord_chris>annadane, Hehe
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16:35<sqrt{not}>iamnk: if you want us to compare the results on 2 different machines, you should show us output from both machines
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16:37<sqrt{not}>iamnk: try this command on both machines `apt policy unattended-upgrades` and see if the output is the same
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16:41<iamnk>sqrt{not}, thank you. I compared the output of apt-cache policy of the two machines myself and saw that they were slightly different. I had another look at the two sources.list files and they were not the same. So I found the problem. I apologize for taking your time but thanks for telling me to look at apt-cache policy
16:42<iamnk>sqrt{not}, in other words thanks for being rational about it
16:43<KS>After updating buster to 4.19.0-6-amd64 can not run many commands (for example dpkg-reconfigure) without sudo even under root...
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16:44<KS>Any one knows if it was done intentionaly with the latest update (2019 sep 06,07) or it is a bug
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16:44<KS>Before the update all was good...
16:45<amacater>Check the release notes - there was a change in the use of sudo and su with Buster release
16:45<sqrt{not}>iamnk: OK, very good, glad it is fixed
16:45<annadane>bus 4.19.0-6 is 10.1
16:46<annadane>KS is presumably asking about 10.0 -> 10.1
16:46<annadane>not 9 -> 10
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16:50<annadane>KS, in any case, try becoming root in a way that allows you to access things in sbin, with su it's "su -" or "su -l" (without quotes), i'm not sure what it is with sudo, it may be sudo su -
16:50<KS>I was running 10, lsb_release -a still shows 10 not 10.1 after update (only kernel chanched from 4.19.0-5 to 4.19.0-6
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16:50<annadane>that's strange, then.
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16:52<KS>Woo - Hoo!!! Thanks annadane!!! it works with su -l... Did not have to do it before the update though
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16:53<annadane>it's a change from 9 to 10 but shouldn't be from 10.0 to 10.1 so presumably the update didn't go properly
16:54<KS>Got i! Thanks a lot!
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17:07<KS>annadane, Thanks a lot one more time! Learned more usefull tricks about debian today with your comment...
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19:39<sqrt{not}>Hi dev, do you have a debian question ?
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19:43<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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22:17<cHawk>is there any way I can request a package into buster-backports? It'd be nice to keep firmware-amd-graphics updated along the kernel in backports
22:19<sakax>wow 110 updated packages? something special happening with buster?
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22:23<sakax>cHawk: thanks, so normal activity then :D
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 08 00:00:04 2019