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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-09-18

---Logopened Wed Sep 18 00:00:19 2019
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00:20<bryant>heyy
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00:52<iuiututa>i am almost there
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01:11<iuiututa>now i am in the shift ?
01:11<iuiututa>must learn how to use
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01:23<iuiututa>https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/wikis/MuttGuide/Folders helps a bit more
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01:37<aloo_shu>yeah, I skipped on mutt for that reason, and settled for alpine for the time being, that's appx. on par with elinks to get configured, after some reading - but mutt can do much more
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01:42<aloo_shu>well configure and use - found
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01:44<aloo_shu>- found the learning curves demanded by alpine and elinks comparable for both
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02:08<iuiututa>command line apps shuld be more frienly than mutt
02:09<iuiututa>but i made it work ok now
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02:18<user_>hi
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02:20<iuiututa>hello
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03:19<crash_>i have installed Mate with the live nonfree iso, but now after install i got 207 updates beacuse of firefox and libreoffice. but i have many i10ln packages that is installed as well? shouldnt the installer just install the language i selected?
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03:34<annadane>crash_, yeah, that's the thing using live images to install
03:34<annadane>just install using the actual installer
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03:41<Kabouik_>Hi. I am not sure how to read these two tables here: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2013-4359 Should I understand that the proftpd vulnerability, in a Jessie server, has been fixed, or not fixed?
03:42<Kabouik_>Jessie is listed in the sources table, but not in the packages below.
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03:45<jm_>this has been fixed in squeeze already
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04:03<crash_>annadane: yeah i should proably just use the actual installer instead as i have been before :)
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04:16<timmy>On my long running debian server, I have 3 problems at the moment, and I would like to ask for some help, as I am not able to get further:
04:16<timmy>1) The machine serves as an NFS server for a satellite TV receiver and provides disk space for the recordings. Since many months now there are often problems where the client says "NFS server not responding" and the mount on the client side hangs temporarily; this is always during recordings. As we are talking a couple of MiB/s and use 1Gbit/s-LAN, I don't see an obvious problem, but there has to be one
04:16<timmy>2) I tried to get around that issue by adding a PCIe-SSD-card to the box to serve as a write-cache to the MD-RAID1 4TiB disks behind. This helps as long as the (LVM-)cache is not filled by using "writeback", but then writes apparently directly go to the slow drives. It seems the caching algorithms are only planned for random read caching, not write(-only) caching. Is there a different way to use that cache device in a meaningful manner for our
04:16<timmy>3) After having set up that LVM cache device, also for some other LVs, I now regularly get the problem that I cannot change anything (not even deactivate the cache) any more because of some (internal?) error: "device-mapper: reload ioctl on (253:6) failed: Cannot allocate memory". However, there is more than enough RAM available. What can I do?
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04:24<sarnold>timmy: btw irc has line length limits, you were perhaps cut off at "to be one", and "manner for our"
04:25<timmy>sarnold thanks for the hint. In the first case I actually just stopped there :)
04:25<sarnold>ha :)
04:25<timmy>In the latter there is apparently the last word ("scenario?") missing.
04:25<sarnold>haha, it's often just a word or two
04:27<sarnold>timmy: my guess is you've got network connectivity problems between the machines
04:27<sarnold>timmy: is there anything in dmesg on both servers? can you run a smokeping or very similar utility to see latency between the machines ever second?
04:27<Echoz[m]>Sounds like that to me, too. A faulty switch or something along those lines.
04:28<timmy>sarnold of course I thought about that too. I replaced the 1Gbit/s switch which connect both participants, checked if they really negotiate to 1Gbit/s and such
04:28<sarnold>or perhaps some silly machine coming up with the same IP, or networking loops, or etc etc
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04:30<timmy>sarnold nothing in the logs that would give me hint to that, only loads of complaints about the NFS server on the client. I am installing smokeping now
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04:30<timmy>Echoz[m] It might be cables, but I replaced the switch!
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04:31<timmy>sarnold Loops I cannot accept as a theory (only a small number of ports used), and duplicate IP ... fascinating idea ...
04:32<Echoz[m]>timmy: how frequently does it drop out? perhaps try switching up the cables temporarily, use a different nic directly connected to a camera or something just to see if it's reproducible there
04:32<sarnold>timmy: nice nice. loops kill everything with ethernet. it's nice to be sure that's not it. :)
04:34<Echoz[m]>Enabling RSTP/STP on the switches would also completely eliminate the possibility of one occuring
04:34<timmy>Echoz[m] I'm not sure if I understood everything, but I might have to try direct ethernet connections. However, those rooms are at least 50 meters away, and I don't have a cable that long. The frequency of happening is regularly, but only using that NFS service for writing
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04:34<TempHorse>hii
04:35<timmy>But now something different comes to my mind: When adding a cache device on the NFS server helps preventing the problem, how can it be networking anyway?
04:35<jm_>you can also try adjusting NFS options, man 5 nfs; have you tried accessing the disk when recordings are happening? is it responsive or very slow? parallel recordings?
04:35<TempHorse>do nasa use debian ?
04:36<tarzeau>TempHorse: nasa is so big, i'm sure it's on some computers of them
04:36<annadane>TempHorse, better discussion to have in #debian-offtopic i think (because people have support questions right now) but i think i've heard it used in some capacity at NASA, yes
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04:37<TempHorse>cant join it?
04:37<Echoz[m]>TempHorse: at least used on the ISS
04:37<timmy>jm_ I'll read again through the manpage, thanks. In monitoring tools, I see the disks as being 100% busy writing just those couple of MiB/s. And with parallel recording, the problem gets worse.
04:37<Echoz[m]>TempHorse: you need to have your nick registered with NickServ
04:37<annadane>it's also a way of making an OS, because you can customize it to your needs, so can be used for specialized purposes
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04:38<jm_>timmy: so random access for writes is killing it?
04:38<TempHorse> No channel joined. Try /join #<channel>
04:38<Echoz[m]>timmy: what mount options are being used?
04:38<timmy>sarnold I have now installed smokeping, however I cannot easily find out how to run it. Is this a fully fledged suite only, or can I also just run a simple command like "ping"?
04:38<TempHorse> it says
04:39<timmy>jm_ The recordings are big files ("Transport streams", .ts). I would expect them to be sequential writes.
04:39<timmy>I even re-copied everything into a fresh XFS and also tried defragfs.
04:40<timmy>Echoz[m] on the NFS client or for the backing FS on the server?
04:40<Echoz[m]>timmy: NFS clients
04:41<jm_>timmy: I suppose xfsdist.ts from bpftrace will pinpoint where the issue is
04:42<jm_>or generic biosnoop.bt
04:43<timmy>Echoz[m] I'm very sorry, but the systems are at a remote site and I just found out that at the moment the client is shut down. I could not reach anyone to start it up again :(
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04:45<timmy>jm_ is this bpftrace suite looking at the problem from a networking perspective or a block device one?
04:45<Echoz[m]>timmy: All right, well when it's back up make sure it's not using sync or some odd settings for write caching
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04:45<jm_>timmy: it's a tracing tool, see snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), fmt, nv_opt[opt_num].name, sens_str, item_num);
04:45<jm_>bleh see https://github.com/iovisor/bpftrace
04:46<timmy>Echoz[m] of course I invested some time into it, and I'm pretty sure I used async, which should be the default nowadays anyway, but I'll check again.
04:46<sarnold>timmy: check /etc/smokeping/ for configs, which machines to ping, etc
04:47<timmy>jm_ looks pretty general/flexible. I'll have to find out where to start. Thanks!
04:47<Echoz[m]>timmy: in that case that should be fine, but never hurts checking it nonetheless
04:47<sarnold>bcctools / bpftrace etc is awesome stuff
04:47<jm_>timmy: yeah they have tutorials, I imagine it will just show big latencies
04:47<timmy>jm_ but they are not included in debian, eh?
04:48<jm_>timmy: they are in buster
04:50<Echoz[m]>jimpop: this package? bpfcc-tools
04:50<Echoz[m]>at least that's in buster and sid
04:52<timmy>jm_ maybe this is getting trivial, but I see https://packages.debian.org/buster/bpftrace, but cannot find it with apt-get search or install it with apt-get install ...
04:52<timmy>?
04:52<timmy>bpfcc-tools ist there for me
04:53<jm_>timmy: which architecture is your server?
04:53<timmy>The line in sources.list is 'deb ftp://ftp2.de.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free'
04:53<timmy>i386
04:53<timmy>oh
04:53<jm_>yeah that's why :(
04:53<timmy>Now I see: only 64bit
04:53<timmy>Are we now really at the point where i386 is not the one where everything is available?
04:54<timmy>Now: is it easy to switch to 64bit/multiarch ? On the fly?
04:54<jm_>I don't see why it wouldn't work on i386
04:54<timmy>:D
04:56<sarnold>note that bpftrace isn't the same as bcctools
04:56<jm_>libbpfcc-dev is missing for i386
04:58<timmy>sarnold bcctools I cannot find even on the website.
04:58<timmy>[I have to leave for a couple of minutes, but will be back soon]
04:58<jm_>https://packages.debian.org/buster/bpfcc-tools try that one, it also has xfsdist-bpfcc
04:59<TempHorse>how to know if a project is powered by debian?
05:00<BCMM>TempHorse: what sort of project are you talking about here? debian-derived distros? hardware appliances running debian-derived distros? websites that are hosted on servers running debian?
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05:14<timmy>jm_ I cannot install that one either: It depens on python-bpfcc, which in turn depends on libbpfcc, and this only is apparently also only availabe for amd64.
05:14<timmy>The hardware actually is AMD64, but the installation is from 2001. Back then, I only had i386 :D
05:21<Etua>Hello, I encounter problems with USB loosing power on every Linux distro I tried. Finally I managed to install Ubuntu and while that's Debian channel I believe that some of you may be able to diagnose it as it may not be distro-specific, so:
05:21<Etua>I encounter problems that prevent me from using any USB ports but one because of power loss and I started to make changes described in https://askubuntu.com/questions/772056/keyboard-stops-working-ubuntu-16-04 I already tried the first bullet point and SOLUTION 1 from the bottom of the file and I did not help but after plugging my keyboard I see this: termbin.com/jboa in my DMESG. Is it anything meaningfull in my situation?
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05:25<sarnold>if your usb loses power regardless of distro then it's probably hardware problem: either use a more powerful USB powered hub, or power your devices through whatever other mechanism they have if usb can't supply enough power, etc
05:26<timmy>jm_ So the summary would be: As I'm using i386 forget about bpftools, and bcctools is not in debian.
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05:29<Etua>sarnold: The problem is that Windows manages to use all of them.
05:30<sarnold>Etua: aha; I believe wireshark may be able to help you capture the usb conversations on windows and linux and compare them to find what the windows drivres are doing differently
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05:31<Etua>sarnold: The problem is complex because I connected other device - wireless usb dongle for mouse and keyboard and I see in DMESG that it was initialised but despite that it does not work but when I connect it to the one port that works under Linux everything is fine.
05:31<timmy>Regarding my questions 2) and 3) above, are there any ideas there?
05:32<Etua>sarnols: work but you can drop , so these sentences become clearer
05:32<sarnold>timmy: OH! now that I know that you're stuck on a 32 bit kernel, that part is EASY :D :D :D
05:33<sarnold>timmy: upgrade to a 64 bit kernel. the 32 bit kernel can only access 896 megabytes of memory
05:33<Etua>I mean between these two words.
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05:33<timmy>sarnold that's a joke. What is with PAE?
05:34<sarnold>timmy: that allows the *hardware* to access more than four gigabutes. the kernel is still limited to 896 megabytes of memory, and processes are still limited to three gigabytes of memory (but in practice, your processes are limited to about two gigabytes)
05:34<timmy>I have 8 GiB/s of RAM built-in, and all of it seems addressable.
05:34<sarnold>yes
05:34<sarnold>but you cannot use more than about two gigabytes in a single process
05:35<timmy>okay .... and you think this is happening with dm-cache here?
05:35<timmy>2 GiB of memory for dm-cache?
05:35<sarnold>and your kernel cannot use more than 896 megabytes. that means no more than 896 megabytes needs to work for all your memory mappings, process structures, network socket buffers, filesystem buffers
05:35<timmy>(I would be happy to have an answer, just want to be sure)
05:35<sarnold>I don't know how dm-cache works but it's probably in the VFS layer, so it would be stuck to using the sam 896 megabytes
05:36<timmy>Okay, you got me.
05:36<timmy>How can I switch to 64bit? I'll find out online, should be routine ...
05:36<sarnold>it miht have been routine ten or twelve years ago :) hopefully not much has changed
05:37<timmy>sarnold I read some sarcasm out of that ...
05:37<timmy>I'm reading https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading now
05:37<sarnold>I saw a guy on irc do it a few weeks ago, so I know it's possible
05:42<timmy>Looks like great fun. I might have to reserve half a day to get through with that, though :)
05:42<timmy>And regarding question 2? Because I feel dm-cache is not really doing what I'd like it to do ...
05:44<sarnold>I've heard of bcache but it scares me.
05:44<Etua>sarnold: After connecting mouse to a USB hub with external power it started to work. Now the question is why Windows allows for such power consumption(?) while Linux shuts the device down.
05:44<sarnold>zfs uesrs often use dedicate slog devices for the use case of NFS writes
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05:45<sarnold>Etua: often times devices do not use standard USB power requirement advertisements -- and write their windows driver to recognize their device id, and provide different power levels that way. this was a huge problem fifteen years ago, but I haven't seen it lately
05:46<jm_>timmy: note that you can use just 64bit kernel with 32bit userland
05:46<Etua>sarnold: Then I suppose I could try a similar hack and somehow allow them to consume more energy?
05:47<jm_>tim
05:47<jm_>timmy: https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading
05:47<timmy>jm_ might be less scary maybe ...
05:47<timmy>jm_ yeah, I just read through that wiki page
05:47<sarnold>Etua: yeah, hence the wireshark debugging :)
05:47<jm_>timmy: but won't help with installing bcc tools - each time I did cross-grade I had to sort out stuff manually, nothing major though
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05:48<timmy>sarnold bcache seems to only support the same basic caching algorithms (random reads are cached). Maybe I should really look into zfs ...
05:50<Etua>sarnold: I will probably try that but it seems that more devices connected to the faulty ports get that treatment of being given the energy for a second or two and then being shut. That includes small ThinkPad mouse so maybe insted of debugging every device I will try to use I should change some global variable instead?
05:50<sarnold>Etua: hmm. no idea there. normally it's just one crummy device :)
05:51<sarnold>I haven't seen it affect several..
05:51<timmy>thanks guys, and cu next time!
05:52<Etua>sarnold: Okay, I'll try to find what component governs that and how can I alter it's behaviour.
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05:53<sarnold>timmy: cool :) have fun!
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07:08<mohammad>hi
07:11<mohammad>I created a wifi hotspot connection in mx linux but when I try to connect to it using my phone it says that it couldn't obtain an IP address. I used to create the wifi hotspot in debian same way I do it here using the network manager. But it does not work in mx linux.
07:12<mohammad>join #mxlinux
07:13<ach>!mxlinux
07:13<dpkg>Current MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at https://mxlinux.org/.
07:16<ach>!hostapd
07:16<dpkg>hostapd is a user-space IEEE 802.11 access point (AP) and IEEE 802.11X/WPA/WPA2/EAP authenticator. Any mac80211 driver providing AP functionality is supported by hostapd's nl80211 (netlink) driver. See /usr/share/doc/hostapd/README.Debian for program invocation and driver version/firmware notes. See also https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/hostapd . http://w1.fi/hostapd/
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07:18<mohammad>ach, thank you
07:18<ach>thanks
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07:48<tleuser>non graphical.containplain to be on the stainremover with the omsin
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08:08<abrotman>eh?
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09:27<chele>when came dual socket support into dbe?
09:27<chele>deb
09:28<bremner>when questions in complete sentences?
09:29<chele>when have dual sockets support come to debian?
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09:37<chele>bremner also not good?
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09:53<grove>chele: That is almost as impossible to understand as your initial formulation
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09:59<dooglus>I run `apt-get update` and `apt-get upgrade` every day on my buster install. I've not seen an update for maybe a month and figure something isn't working right
10:00<dooglus>here's today's update: https://pastebin.com/ZghCxKNj - note how only buster-backports pdiffs were downloaded. nothing from buster-updates
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10:10<grove>dooglus: Buster is stable, it's not supposed to receive any updates (in reality there will be security updates, and possibly a few other things found it's way into 10.1)
10:12<dooglus>grove: ok. until recently I was seeing updates pretty often
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10:14<sqrt{not}>chele: are you asking about support for multiple physical motherboard CPU sockets ?
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10:17<chele>sqrt{not} dual-stack sockets IPv4/IPv6. i need a break...
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10:33<grove>debian has had dual-stack (IPv4+IPv6) support for many years, it's probably more than 20
10:37<duclicsic>grove: the RFC for IPv4-mapped IPv6 is about 16 years old, so the specific feature is probably a bit younger. I couldn't say when it was added to the kernel and when that kernel made it to debian, but the answer is probably still bloody ages ago.
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10:49<chele>thanks guys.
10:50<chele>bremner you're correct. i meant to say dual-stack sockets ip v4/v6.
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11:00<blast007>chele: I would think that's more of an application-specific thing
11:01<blast007>chele: do you have a specific example?
11:01<chele>blast007 what do you mean?
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11:03<chele>i have an application that needs to support both versions. having only one socket is elegant and i wanted to use it but was not sure if i'd have compatibility problems. therefore out of curiosity asked since when was this supported in debian.
11:03<blast007>an application that you are writing?
11:03<chele>correct.
11:04<blast007>so can't you test it?
11:04<blast007>that's part of being a developer..
11:04<chele>sure. but was still curious.
11:06<blast007>given that the IPV6_V6ONLY socket option was added in linux 2.4.21 and 2.6, I'd think that dual-stack sockets have been supported for a *long* time
11:07<blast007>there's also the net.ipv6.bindv6only sysctl option that can impact how it works
11:08<blast007>if your software supports binding to specific addresses, you may need to support multiple sockets though anyway
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12:57<rob_debian>Hi all, please, is 'apt' acronym for 'aptitude' ? 'apt install' -> 'aptitude install....'
12:57<olasd>no
12:57<olasd>apt and aptitude are two separate tools
12:57<rob_debian>Hi olasd, thanks for answering
12:57<rob_debian>Fine, olasd, please, let me formulate my doubt here...
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13:09<rob_debian>Please, olasd, se if it's right this definition comparing 'apt' to 'aptitude': Apt will download file packages to upgrade or install. It depends on the variation used together. Package breakage happens when one of the packages is damaged by net drop, power surges or damaged packages. The most robust is 'aptitude' because it transfers a part of the packages and stops to check if there is a transfer error, only then the transfer back and so until the
13:09<rob_debian>package transfer finishes.
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13:11<petn-randall>rob_debian: That is not correct.
13:11<petn-randall>rob_debian: None of the tools should fail that way when the network drops.
13:11<petn-randall>rob_debian: apt, aptitude, apt-get, dselect are just different frontends to the package managing system on Debian.
13:12<rob_debian>Hi petn-randall, thanks for answering !
13:13<rob_debian>They are different frontends to the package managing system on Debian. Ok, but what are exactly the differences between them ? 'apt' vs 'aptitude', in this case ?
13:13<petn-randall>rob_debian: If a truncated package would get installed, that would be a security issue because that means the signature is not being checked. So far I've not heard of this error, and I'd be very surprised.
13:13<petn-randall>rob_debian: apt is a CLI tool, aptitude is a TUI.
13:13<rob_debian>TUI ?
13:13<petn-randall>rob_debian: You can see the difference if you just run `aptitude` (without parameters).
13:15<rob_debian>I see, I have some doubts about it, trying to understand about 'apt' in man page here... What's TUI ?
13:15<sqrt{not}>rob_debian: start here: on the command line, do these commands: man apt-get man dselect man aptitude man apt
13:15<rob_debian>I tried man aptitude, and there isn't this entry
13:16<sqrt{not}>then you must do this: sudo apt-get install aptitude
13:16<rob_debian>I've already done it before asking you, sqrt{not}. For 'man aptitude', it replies 'No manual entry for aptitude'
13:16<sqrt{not}>then you must do this: sudo apt-get install aptitude
13:17<rob_debian>oh, Fine, thanks ! I've forgotten it must be installed....
13:18<rob_debian>Thank you, petn-randall and sqrt{not} for (Always) Great Support !:)
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13:26<sqrt{not}>!tui
13:26<dpkg>tui is probably text user interface
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13:51<nvz>well technically aptitude has both a cli and a tui
13:55<nvz>what it does not have however is super cow powers
13:55<nvz>which is evident if you try tell it to --purge autoremove foo or such
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13:56<nvz>http://paste.debian.net/1101481/
13:58<nvz>and personally I just cannot tolerate that.. which is why I use apt .. cause a package manager without super cow powers is just a package manager
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14:06<Guest2854>ciao, qualcuno sa dirmi come si attiva il wifi ?
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14:09<jhutchins_wk>!it
14:09<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
14:09<jhutchins_wk>Guest2854: Or ask here in English.
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14:17<Guest2854>Dove trovo debian.it? In quale rete?
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14:18<jhutchins_wk>Guest2854: Being able to spell Farari is the extent of my Italian.
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14:26<retrospectacus>lol
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14:26<sqrt{not}>That's not right -- it's "Ferengi"
14:27<retrospectacus>I think it is Frererrio
14:27<rob_debian_>italian here ? I make an effort to speak in acceptable english at Debian Support Channel, and italian is native language for me....I'll start formulate debian issues in italian next time, lol
14:29<rob_debian_>I make an effort...but, surely my english is not acceptable yet. I realize that.....:(
14:29<rob_debian_>But my italian is better, for it's my native language (spanish and portugueses too). So, next occasion, I will speak only in italian here...
14:30<rob_debian_>ehehehe
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14:54<somiaj>rob_debian_: there is also an itilian channel
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15:00<tomg>rob_debian_, your English is okay to me
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15:06<rob_debian_>Thank you for evaluation, tomg. Nice to see you again !:)somiaj, don't kick me out of here. I was just kidding...
15:09<rob_debian_>I think somiaj doesn't like me. But I like him a lot. In several occasions, somiaj also has freed me from true virtual hells.
15:09<somiaj>I was just pointing out that there are language specific channels which can make support easier.
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15:11<rob_debian_>yes, somiaj, I know :) But, but if I go to an Italian or foreign language channel, I won't find you and all the other Debian Warriors that I am always happy to meet here !:)
15:12<jhutchins_wk>rob_debian_: It's a funny thing about languages: The way sentances are constructed affects the way you think about things, and sometimes just doing a literal translation doesn't end up meaning what you meant.
15:13<jhutchins_wk>Urdu, for instance, has some major logical differences from English.
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15:19<rob_debian_>surely jhutchins_wk, and this point of view is particularly correct when trying to achieve the same meaning of a certain message by using different languages that are not from the same idiomatic trunk, such as English and Italian. I know some of the English vocabulary comes from Latin too. But there is a huge part of the English language that we don't understand right away.
15:20<rob_debian_>several lines now, sorry for that :(
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16:56<pollux_>hi all, is it possible to configure apt to automatically download -dbg packages for any package installed?
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18:35<iuiututa>i came i to apologyze about my aptitude in relation to the bub in qemu kvm installatiion in my laptop, its is givving signs of unstability, mainly in boot, it reboots with panic kernel signs
18:35<iuiututa>i dont know how long it will work
18:37<iuiututa>the 'bug' might be in relation to unstability in hardware
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18:41<iuiututa>and the mutt is all about after twek the .muttrc learn the commands to acess the folders i doent give in a tree display must select by hand
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18:55<iuiututa>we always count about computer be deterministic but without an ecc ram and relyable hardware things can be messy
18:57<iuiututa>i am sad about my lap, can last 1minute , 1 year
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19:00<neorpheus>anyone care to help me figureout why i cant seem to blacklist the noveau driver in latest debian stable x64 netinst?
19:01<somiaj>neorpheus: why ar eyou wanting to black list it? Are you trying to install the nvidia drivers?
19:01<neorpheus>somiaj, that is correct
19:03<somiaj>how are you installing the nvidia drivers, the debian packages (suggested way to install them) will put the nouveau blacklist in place for you.
19:05<neorpheus>i didnt see a deb package for my driver version, so i fell back to manual install
19:06<blast007>what nvidia card do you have?
19:08<somiaj>neorpheus: using the .bin from nvidia can break your debian system (or debian system can break the .bin) so it is best to use the debian version. Debian provides the non-free driver for almost all cards (bleeding edge debian is a little slow on)
19:08<somiaj>though let us know what nvidia card you are using, we'll point you in the right direction.
19:09<neorpheus>it is a quadro 3450 fx i believe. would have to reboot to double check tho.
19:09<somiaj>neorpheus: lspci should list it too
19:09<somiaj>,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
19:09<judd>Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.116-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.74-1; bullseye/non-free: 430.40-2; sid/non-free: 430.50-1; experimental/non-free: 435.21-1
19:09<neorpheus>i was unaware that the bin could cause issues. ive used if before with other distros with little to no issue
19:10<somiaj>neorpheus: the problem is dpkg/apt don't know what the .bin does, so updaing your packages could cause the mesa libGL.so file to overwrite the one provided by nvidia
19:10<somiaj>thus breaking it, and making things hard to manage
19:10<neorpheus>VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation NV42GL [Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI]
19:11<neorpheus>ahh ok i see the issue
19:11<neorpheus>ive probably been getting lucky all this time. i rarely update
19:12<blast007>that's an oldie.. supported by the 304.xx drivers..
19:12<neorpheus>correct
19:12<somiaj>yea, you need the legacy package
19:13<somiaj>,v nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
19:13<judd>Package: nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 304.137-0~deb8u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 304.137-5~bpo9+1; stretch/non-free: 304.137-5~deb9u1; sid/non-free: 304.137-7
19:13<blast007>304 isn't in buster
19:13<somiaj>Must be it didn't compile against the new kernel correctly
19:14<neorpheus>NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-304.137.run is what i got from nvidia so that sounds right
19:15<somiaj>not sure the best way to go here since that has been removed from buster
19:15<somiaj>the stretch packages might work, though maybe the sid version works too
19:16<iuiututa>not repo whatsoevernvidia.run is a good idea
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19:18<somiaj>neorpheus: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=900787
19:18<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/900787 in src:nvidia-graphics-drivers-legacy-304xx (open, buster, bullseye, wontfix, sid, upstream): «nvidia-graphics-drivers-legacy-304xx: does not support Xorg Xserver 1.20»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-06-04; last modified: 2019-07-08.
19:18<neorpheus>i dont have much set up on this install yet so im not opposed to just stepping back a ver or 2 to get back to when it was supported
19:18<somiaj>it appears that upstream is no longer supporting this, and it won't build on 5.x kernels (though there is a patch for this), but also won't run on newer xorgs
19:18<somiaj>so it was probably removed from buster, because the driver won't run on the xorg in buster, and upstream won't fix it.
19:19<somiaj>neorpheus: with that older card, if nouveau doesn't work for you, you are going to be stuck in stretch
19:19<somiaj>My suggestion, use nouveau with that card.
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19:21<somiaj>neorpheus: it also appears that since upstream isn't updating this driver, it would have probably failed (using the .run from nvidia) to run xorg on buster if you got that far.
19:21<somiaj>so though it may build okay against the kernel, xorg won't work
19:23<neorpheus>i have a very novice understanding of how linux internals work. ive always just assumed that x/xorg are black voodoo gypsy majick that mere mortals are menat not to dabble in. that being said, i take it its not a simple matter to change out your x version is it?
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19:23<iuiututa>i get concerned about updates because i on jessie but i dont run a 386
19:24<iuiututa>and LTS is it exists in debian? ubuntu do
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19:26<bremner>!lts
19:26<dpkg>Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net.
19:27<bremner>jessie is supported by LTS for about 9 months longer
19:28<iuiututa>9 months from now or from start?
19:28<bremner>iuiututa: note that jessie LTS support is only i386, amd64, armel, and armhf
19:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 607] by debhelper
19:29<iuiututa>mine is an atom 2 core 2 threads
19:29<iuiututa>4
19:31<iuiututa>i told to people to laugh or cry
19:31<bremner>that's an i386 in debian terms, I think
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19:32<iuiututa>far faster
19:33<rjsalts>atom isn't i386, they're amd64
19:33<iuiututa>yes
19:33<bremner>It depends which atom iirc
19:33<bremner>but ok, fine, amd64 is better, what's the problem?
19:33<blast007>some atom's are i386, and some amd64 atoms have a 32-bit UEFI
19:34<somiaj>neorpheus: so did nouveau work for you at all?
19:34<iuiututa>it was windows oldies i installed jessie
19:35<rjsalts>yeah, wikipedia says: "The Atom N2xx and Z5xx series Atom models cannot run x86-64 code."
19:35<iuiututa>and linus do the job faster being more updated
19:35<somiaj>neorpheus: in general in debian you should use the versions of software shipped with that release. And yes getting a differet version of xorg is not suggested in buster
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19:36<neorpheus>somiaj, im afraid not. attempting to launch world of warcraft in wine puke with an error about not being able to start 3d acceleration, asking me to install dx9.0c and a gang of wined3d errors in the terminal
19:36-!-eamanu [~eamanu@host32.190-228-235.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<iuiututa>uefi bios concerns me about changing OS change
19:37<iuiututa>uefi mainly
19:37<bremner>can you use legacy boot?
19:37<somiaj>neorpheus: some nvidia cards like non-free firmware with nouveau, unsure if that will help.
19:37<somiaj>neorpheus: but on that older hardware, I'd be surprised if you get much support from newer games
19:38<somiaj>neorpheus: For that hardware, I would just run stretch (there is about a year of support, and then another 2-3 of LTS support)
19:38<neorpheus>somiaj, it doesnt need to play crysis lol.
19:38<neorpheus>ill look into stretch
19:39<somiaj>well world of warcraft no longer supports older directx versions, it requires fairly modern gpu, so dosn't surprise me that it had trouble on that older card
19:39<neorpheus>within the next year this rig is going to be getting a video upgrade. just a simple ga,ming rig i built for the wife out of spare parts cus she wanted to learn how they went together
19:39<iuiututa>brem wish to have money to play an system admin in my apartment
19:40<neorpheus>im running an older client 3.3.5A which runs quite smoothly on this rig under windows as well as a few different dirstros ive tried
19:40<somiaj>you can see if installing firmware-misc-nonfree helps (it has various nvidia firmware), and also check what the output of 'glxinfo' is, could be you have glx support, just that older card with the wine layer isn't going to work on some games
19:41<somiaj>neorpheus: well stretch + the nvidia-legacy package should work
19:41<somiaj>I doubt you can get that card to work with nvidia non-free drivers in buster due to the xorg version (from what the bug reports i saw, nvidia is not going to update that older driver to support newer xorg)
19:42<iuiututa>would be good to have a laboratory
19:42<iuiututa>more machines
19:43<neorpheus>ok stretch it is then. one last question, is there a quick way of making bootable usb drives of debian from debian? ive got 2 blank cds left
19:43-!-goncalor [~goncalor@static.209.153.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:43<somiaj>neorpheus: if you download the debian.iso with the installer on it.
19:43-!-marco [~marco@148.215.241.164] has joined #debian
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19:44<somiaj>neorpheus: cp debian.iso /dev/sdX (where /dev/sdX is the usb drive (not partition) you want to copy it to
19:44<somiaj>the debian images are already bootable, all you have to do is copy it onto the usb drive
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19:45<iuiututa>pheus a bootable usb get your hardware a box dont
19:45<neorpheus>like all i have to do is "dd if=/mnt/sda1/debian.iso of=/dev/sdc" ?
19:45<somiaj>neorpheus: I prefer cp (nicer defaults) but yes
19:46<neorpheus>hot damn! well thanks a million for that one. ive been having to walk downstairs to my rig to burn off a handful of usbs with unetbootin under windows everytimt ive wantede tot try a new distro on this rig
19:47<somiaj>!unetbootin
19:47<dpkg>UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. http://unetbootin.sf.net/ Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
19:47<somiaj>that often breaks debian images, debian .iso images are already bootable, just need to be copied to a usb or cd
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19:51<iuiututa>lets run usb linux in non trusty hardware and more network and screen
19:52<neorpheus>gotcha, that explains why i couldnt get nay debian to boot from usb.
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19:56<iuiututa>i would expect many tails in this channel
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19:57<neorpheus>9.11.0 net install donloading
20:00<iuiututa>they say install less... but we must trust
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20:05<neorpheus>ok copying iso to thumbdrive
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20:06<iuiututa>y did the work... for him
20:06<iuiututa>outstanding
20:07<iuiututa>i had to fix .muttrc under the sun by my swet
20:07<neorpheus>odd, dd threw an io error
20:09<retrospectacus>put the command and output here and we can check it out. https://paste.debian.net/
20:09<iuiututa>i didnt posted my fault
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20:10<iuiututa>to relyabble people get fixed but better in stakoverflow instnt
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20:13<iuiututa>ping me for help he sad
20:14<iuiututa>throw lynes and ping me for good
20:14<neorpheus>going to try another thumb drive but it looks like dd might be having issueshttp://paste.debian.net/1101515/
20:18<iuiututa>i dont see pastebin for people that need help
20:18<iuiututa>better stakoverflow
20:19<neorpheus>tried again with another thumb drive. no errors this time. rebooting
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20:20<iuiututa>i shall forget you to help people
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20:20-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite #oolite-dev
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20:26-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite #oolite-dev
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20:57<iuiututa>cuzões não aceitam porque eu não sou fodão usuário
20:58<iuiututa>stackoverflow
20:59<iuiututa>gonna publish in this nice friently channel and u do forward do y?
21:00<bremner>iuiututa: you're becoming a bit annoying again.
21:00<bremner>also, hard to understand
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21:04<iuiututa>sorry bre
21:05<iuiututa>https://paste.debian.net/1101521
21:05-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:5eb:1a01:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
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21:05<iuiututa>just publish public for hel people
21:05-!-tomaw [tom@tomaw.noc.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Quit]
21:05<bremner>OK
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21:05-!-tomaw is "Tom Wesley <tom@tomaw.net>" on #debian-ipv6 #debian-es #debian-django #debian #ceph #bitlbee #help #freenode #linode #irssi @#admin #virt
21:07<iuiututa>publish
21:07-!-clopez is "clopez" on #kernelnewbies #qemu #virt
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21:07<iuiututa>worked for me
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21:17<iuiututa>do the link here
21:17<iuiututa>for good
21:21<bremner>iuiututa: you could get a wiki account, and help edit https://wiki.debian.org/Mutt
21:23<bremner>for example you could start a translation into brazilian portuguese
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21:42<iuiututa>bre
21:42<iuiututa>im not a regular user
21:42<iuiututa>take the grants
21:42<iuiututa>do it
21:44<iuiututa>just want myself helped, if is not people like us the wowlrd
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21:49<iuiututa>thanks to ping me
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21:49<iuiututa>helped a lot
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21:50<iuiututa>i shall keep a box only to the noobs
21:50<iuiututa>to help
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22:00<iuiututa>just fix wiki
22:01<iuiututa>i told other sources
22:01<rob_debian_>iuiututa, what's your intention here ?
22:02-!-Statj [~Statj@0002864f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:03<rob_debian_>Why did you write such words: "cuzões não aceitam porque eu não sou fodão usuário" ?
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22:03-!-silver is "Jesse Lee Morgan" on #linux #mm #neurodebian #debian-offtopic #debconf-cambridge #debian-kde #debian-science #debian-next #debian #debian-meeting
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22:04<rob_debian_>you are brazilian, I suppose....
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22:11<iuiututa>yes rob i am brazillilien
22:12<iuiututa>with good intentions
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22:21<rob_debian_>ok, but why did you write that phrase mentioned above ?
22:23<rob_debian_>In fact, it's a dirty phrase, and you know about it....
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22:26<iuiututa>test the file and get me
22:27<iuiututa>need many more files fore sure
22:27<iuiututa>scrutinize
22:27<rob_debian_>ok, let's gonna fight....
22:28<iuiututa>im not a regurar usr
22:28-!-awal1 [~awal1@modemcable195.197-226-192.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
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22:28<iuiututa>nothing to hide
22:28<iuiututa>fight?
22:28<iuiututa>laugh
22:29<rob_debian_>so, face me in privacy.
22:29<rob_debian_>you are not respecting this channel....
22:29<iuiututa>oh man
22:31<iuiututa>i disrespect my life, i do liquor .... iam damn
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22:31<blast007>rob_debian_: it's not worth your time
22:31<iuiututa>good for y
22:33<iuiututa>nice place to upfrade my sefsteem
22:33<rob_debian_>I appreciate the high quality support work you give here, blast007. I don't think this kind of occurrence is fair here.
22:33<blast007>iuiututa: this channel is for Debian support.
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22:35<iuiututa>not chatting i got it
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23:01-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian
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23:09-!-neorpheus is "realname" on #debian
23:10<neorpheus>that took longer than expected but i finally got 9.11 installed
23:12<iuiututa>the histoy?
23:12<iuiututa>so longer?
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23:12-!-Nono is "Trisno" on #oftc #qemu #C
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23:14-!-Statj is "SJ" on #debian
23:14<iuiututa>NSA i quit
23:15<iuiututa>i forgot google
23:15-!-xxzz^ [~xxzz@ec2-34-230-45-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:15<iuiututa>terminal user
23:16<iuiututa>without zoho
23:18<iuiututa>hooo7 waht y think about it?
23:19-!-xxzz^ [~xxzz@ec2-34-230-45-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
23:19-!-xxzz^ is "XXZZ" on #debian
23:20<iuiututa>007?
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23:22-!-SkarmoutsosV is "Vangelis Skarmoutsos" on #debian-i18n #debian-next #debian
23:25<iuiututa>putted a stick into my lap cam just like every
23:27<iuiututa>now
23:31<iuiututa>kidding
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23:42<neorpheus>`
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23:58-!-rd235 is "renzo" on #debian
---Logclosed Thu Sep 19 00:00:20 2019