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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-09-19

---Logopened Thu Sep 19 00:00:20 2019
00:03-!-Statj [~Statj@0002864f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:06-!-Statj is "SJ" on #debian
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00:47-!-nardev is "nardev" on #bash #linux #debian
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01:10-!-bpsecret is "bpsecret" on #tor-south #tor-project #tor-l10n #tor-dev #tor-bots #rust-offtopic #rust #debian
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01:24-!-fr334fun is "free4fun" on #debian-devel-es #debian-mentors-es @#debian-uy #debian-es #debian
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01:33-!-dust is "dust" on #debian-games #debian #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt
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01:42-!-nardev is "nardev" on #debian #linux #bash
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01:57-!-cpaelzer is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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03:08-!-preview_ is "preview" on #debian
03:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 610] by debhelper
03:13<iuiututa>gentlmn i ireinfrfce do the muutt
03:15<themill>iuiututa: you were incoherently noisy on freenode and that was unwelcome. Please don't now bring that here.
03:15<iuiututa>nice gentjeman cant do
03:17<iuiututa>ok people may get hopeless
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03:20<iuiututa>slepp
03:20-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
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03:21-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@177.136.153.79] by ChanServ
03:21-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
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04:29-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian
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05:11-!-gtristan is "Tristan Van Berkom" on #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian #ninja-build #debian-next
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05:12<nstivoh>hi
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05:24-!-student is "student" on #debian
05:24<student>borci
05:24<student>cus
05:24<student>jak jde zibot
05:24<student>zibot
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05:48-!-HatMat is "jemmy" on #debian
05:49<HatMat>hi
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05:50-!-vicamo is "You-Sheng Yang" on #debian-kde #debian-dkms #debian-desktop #debian-bluetooth #debian-apt #debian
05:50<HatMat>hey
05:50<HatMat>are you there
05:51<HatMat>i think this is working good
05:51<sarnold>hey HatMat, normally folks don't bother saying hi when joining :)
05:51<HatMat>ahaa
05:51<HatMat>k
05:51<sarnold>otherwise there'd be nothing but a long stream of greeints...
05:51<HatMat>i see
05:51<HatMat>k
05:51<sarnold>it's not wrong to say hi when joining a channel but don't take it personal if no on replies to it, hehe :)
05:52<HatMat>thank you
05:52<HatMat>i know
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06:06<jspy>hi
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06:17-!-twb is "Trent W. Buck" on #debian #debian-au
06:17<twb>Is /etc/locale.gen a Debianism, or a glibcism?
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06:20<olasd>twb: looks like /usr/sbin/locale-gen is a debianism (https://sources.debian.org/src/glibc/2.29-1/debian/local/usr_sbin/locale-gen/), but it's at least also been adopted by archlinux
06:21<twb>I'm trying to work out the best way for a configuration management tool (e.g. puppet) to say "make sure C.UTF-8 and en_AU.UTF-8 locales are present on the system"
06:23<twb>Hrm, looks like it's a third-party thing: https://github.com/saz/puppet-locales/blob/master/manifests/init.pp
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06:23-!-SkarmoutsosV is "Vangelis Skarmoutsos" on #debian-i18n #debian-next #debian
06:23<olasd>this doesn't support systems without locale-gen, btw
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06:23<olasd>(e.g. no RedHat)
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06:25<twb>How do locales work on RH? Do they precompile each locale into a separate .rpm?
06:25<twb>(Ubuntu did that for a while)
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06:36<jm_>twb: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive is 102M file on centos 7, compared to 11M for me on debian with 15 locales generated (basically only 5 languages)
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06:37<wannabe-mirror>does anyone use alpine here? with stretch it worked just fine with my university email but after updating to buster, i always get a "There was an SSL/TLS failure for the server" error. i verified on my server (running stretch) that my .pinerc file is actually correct and got alpine to work on my server. this points toward nothing wrong with the configuration or the email server. the problem is elsewhere.
06:38<GyrosGeier>wannabe-mirror, you can try using "openssl s_client -connect mail.server.here:993" and see what it outputs
06:39<jm_>wannabe-mirror: TLS/SSL issues are common when upgrading to a newer version of a library, see if it has any options related to that
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06:41<twb>jm_: thanks.
06:42<jm_>twb: no worries
06:43<wannabe-mirror>"SSL handshake has read 4724 bytes and written 310 bytes" and "Verification: OK"
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07:19<cybrejon>hello, can anyone using MX 18.3 help me?
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07:20<twb>cybrejon: what is MX 18.3?
07:21<twb>wannabe-mirror: is alpine using openssl, gnutls, or something else?
07:22<twb>wannabe-mirror: apt says libssl1.1, so the test you already did should be good enough
07:22<twb>wannabe-mirror: see if you can convince alpine to log more about the error
07:23<twb>wannabe-mirror: also, you only checked the imaps server (port 993). You might also check the submission server (port 587) or similar.
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07:23<wannabe-mirror>yes, it would appear i actually can send mail with alpine. the smtp config should be fine. the issue is narrowed down to imap
07:25<twb>wannabe-mirror: you can also try curl imaps://wannabe-mirror:swordfish@example.com/
07:25<twb>(Note that other users on your computer can see your password if you do that)
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07:27<wannabe-mirror>openssl s_client -connect insert.email.server:587 gives no answer. as if the port would be firewalled
07:27<twb>wannabe-mirror: pastebin your .pinerc
07:27<wannabe-mirror>um...
07:28<jm_>I would just inspect what alpine does compared to s_client, wireshark or ssldump should help with that
07:28<twb>jm_: I agree.
07:28<wannabe-mirror>inbox-path={imap.my-universitys-email.server:993/ssl/user=me@my-university.fi}Inbox
07:29<wannabe-mirror>do you mean the whole .pinerc file?
07:29<wannabe-mirror>in here?
07:29<twb>wannabe-mirror: I meant show us the actual config, rather than redacting information. For example, your domains don't match there, so is that a typo in the real file, or during redaction?
07:30<twb>!pastebin
07:30<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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07:31<wannabe-mirror>i would have to sanitize it. i dont want you to know my username and whatnot
07:31<wannabe-mirror>i'll have to come back later
07:31<twb>no worries
07:32<twb>I'm pretty much at my boredom limit anyway.
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07:40<wannabe-mirror>i believe the configuration is legit. the exact same .pinerc file works in stretch and the problem emerged when i updated to buster. i simply copied my home-directory to a flash drive and did a fresh install (rather then dist-upgrade). sending email would still appear to work, and even my filter to sign outgoing mail with gpg work. i'll try to investigate the libraries as you suggested, and also make alpine log erro
07:40<wannabe-mirror>rs somehow
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08:18<alephnull>Hello all, how do I get apt to install the dependencies of a multiarch package that I am installing? The docs suggest that it is automatic but that is not my experience. http://paste.debian.net/1101590/ for more details.
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08:25<twb>alephnull: apt install foo/arm64 not apt install -a arm64 foo ?
08:25<twb>Er never mind, you tried that
08:26<twb>alephnull: AFAICT you did everything right.
08:26<wannabe-mirror>they use a ssl certificate some email clients do not recognize. tried claws ant it too fails, but gives a reasonable error message. anything can be done about this? is there some package i should install?
08:27<twb>wannabe-mirror: do you know *why* it's not recognized?
08:27<twb>wannabe-mirror: the fact that openssl s_client worked makes me suspect it's not simply a self-signed cert
08:30<wannabe-mirror>it actually is signed by terena. claws only say that the certificate for *beep* is unknown
08:39<twb>One problem I sometimes have is a website sends only the final cert, and assumes I already have both the CA *and* the intermediary certs. GUI browsers keep intermediary certs, but ca-certificates (/etc/ssl/certficates) doesn't.
08:39<twb>e.g. $ gnutls-cli imap.gmail.com -p imaps </dev/null says "- Got a certificate list of 2 certificates." because they DID send an intermediary cert
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08:43<twb>alephnull: this works for me: "apt install nvi:arm64"
08:44<twb>alephnull: this fails for me: "apt install python3.7:arm64"
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08:44<wannabe-mirror>that's it for today. helpdesk say all this is because they have shut down all insecure protocols, despite me having the identical pinerc-file working on one computer and failing on the other. what they say doesn't make any sense so time to give up
08:45<twb>alephnull: it sounds like python3.7-dev:arm64 needs python3.7:arm64, and you can't have python3.7:arm64 and python3.7:amd64 at the same time, and you can't have <all sorts of stuff> without python3.7:amd64
08:45<alephnull>twb: It appears that the executables (among other things) go into the same dirs. I guess I will need a chroot.
08:45<twb>alephnull: I have used qemu user emulation for this in the past with good results.
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08:46<twb>https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation
08:46<alephnull>Yeah, that would work. Probably.
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08:48<twb>Hopefully that will Just Work with e.g. debspawn or sbuild
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10:02<Cyb3rN3xt>hi
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10:33<al_>Good evening, is anybody around?
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10:38<al_>This is my first time on this channel. I'm hoping to get some help with my display environment which suddenly crapped out on my last reboot
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10:40<sarnold>hey al_, irc tends to be quiet until someone asks questions :)
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10:42<al_>Fair enough, thanks for responding.
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10:43<al_>I don't know gdm and x11 very well but I suspect maybe i installed a package that somehow interfered with it
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10:44<al_>Right now, buster boots into a tt1 terminal. If is type startx , I get a blue background with a mouse and nothing else
10:45<al_>initx tells me a server is already running
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10:46<al_>The main thing I did before reboot was uninstall the package managers python3 and reinstall from source. Which required installing some extra packages
10:48<al_>The questions I found so far refer me to . xinitrc, which doesn't appear to exist
10:49<jhutchins_wk>al_: What's your desktop?
10:50<jhutchins_wk>al_: Most of them will have a start command, like startxfce4 that starts the desktop. What you're seeing with startx is raw Xwindows with no apps or desktop.
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10:51<al_>gdm3, I believe, but I don't remember the options on the installer and I'm not sure how to verify that fornsure
10:52<al_>'service gdm3 start' does not raise an exception
10:52<jhutchins_wk>al_: That's your Display Manager, not your desktop. You should check to see if it's throwing errors, possibly in /var/log Xorg.0.log
10:52<jhutchins_wk>al_: Does it start your desktop?
10:54<al_>'ls /var/log' does not show anything for Xorg
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10:55<yuri>hello
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10:56<linearain>hello
10:56<dmm>al_: did uninstalling python3 remove your desktop environment?
10:57<al_>Its actually in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log
10:57<dmm>You could install the buster python3 along side a custom python3 in a different path, or a virtenv, etc
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10:57<al_>dmm: I didn't notice any strange behavior during the uninstall or reinstall. Only when I rebooted
10:58<linearain>i wrote latest debian DVD to a usb stick and tried to install on a rather old computer (pentium 4, intel d865perl motherboard) 2004~. I get one line on screen "ISOLINUX blabla copyright" and it just stays there
10:58<linearain>have 2GB ram
10:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 628] by debhelper
10:59<yuri>I tried installing stuff on debian 10 and it's not working. I have the .deb on my desktop but I can never command debian to install it.
10:59<al_>Is python3 required for the DM or desktop?
10:59<yuri>(I am totally new to linux btw)
10:59<yuri>Any help?
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11:00<al_>yuri: sudo dpkg -i <pkg-naame>.deb
11:01<GyrosGeier>linearain, 32 or 64 bit?
11:01<linearain>32-bit
11:01<GyrosGeier>hmm
11:01<GyrosGeier>that should work
11:01<linearain>maybe i just need to wait it out?
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11:02<linearain>waited for a few minutes, nothing happened
11:02<GyrosGeier>no
11:02<GyrosGeier>isolinux is fast
11:02<linearain>i can press enter and it goes to new line, so pc not frozen
11:02<GyrosGeier>it should switch to a graphical mode and present a menu
11:02<GyrosGeier>and pressing enter should boot the default option
11:03<linearain>maybe my USB stick is crappy?
11:03<GyrosGeier>unlikely
11:03<blast007>what did you use to write the ISO to the USB stick?
11:03<linearain>ubuntu. sudo cp .iso dev/sdx
11:03<linearain>sync
11:03<blast007>(though I suppose if it's failing that quickly, it's not the usual unetbootin issue)
11:03<blast007>yeah, so that's not the problem
11:03<GyrosGeier>most people use dd, but cp should also work
11:04<blast007>does that computer have a working CD or DVD drive?
11:04<linearain>has both
11:04<mendelmunkis>linearain: do you have systemd?
11:04<dmm>al_: gnome probably uses python for something? Try installing gnome again
11:04<GyrosGeier>CD booting would run the exact same code
11:04<yuri>It says error dpkg frontend lock is locked by another process.
11:04<blast007>might want to try with a burned disc then. some older systems had more problems with USB booting.
11:04<al_>oh, after installing python, I was also trying to use pyserial to access a port. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/QWMjonst/irccloudcapture3263524164503331483.jpg
11:04<GyrosGeier>I think it should boot through ElTorito
11:05<linearain>i can try dvd
11:05<GyrosGeier>i.e. loads a 2.88MB floppy image to RAM, then makes that available through BIOS functions
11:05<linearain>the motherboard is from 2002...
11:05<blast007>GyrosGeier: I think the Pentium 4 era computers were the first to support USB booting, so it was a bit.. unreliable
11:05<GyrosGeier>true
11:06<linearain>could my ram be faulty?
11:06<GyrosGeier>but the mechanism is the same as for CDs -- so when they enter user code, then reading worked
11:06<GyrosGeier>linearain, yes, but also unlikely
11:06<linearain>well i'll try some stuff and report back
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11:06<GyrosGeier>you can make a memtest86+ USB stick or CD and try booting that
11:07<linearain>hmm good idea
11:07<blast007>try the CD or DVD boot first, and if that also fails, then try a memtest
11:08<linearain>sure
11:08<dmm>al_: xorg logs are frustrating because they often have harmless, unrelated errors
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11:10<al_>dmm: ok, the error looks similar but the path doesn't look right. I'll unplug the device and reinstall python3 before rebooting again
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11:12<yuri>Does anyone know how to fix It says error dpkg frontend lock is locked by another process?
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11:13<linearain>can i burn the .iso with brasero to dvd and thats it?
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11:13<al_> dmm: The package is called gnome? Or gdm3
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11:15<GyrosGeier>linearain, yes
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11:19<linearain>well looks like my ram was faulty
11:20<linearain>removed a few sticks and it works now
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11:25<al_>yuri: if you have aptitude running, that will happen. If not, you might have a background process running because you didn't close something properly. I usually just reboot when that happens.
11:27<dmm>al_: apt-get install task-gnome-desktop ? Should be what you installed with tasksel during installation
11:27<yuri>I fixed it.
11:27<yuri>But now when I run sudo dpkg -i discord-0.0.9.deb it gives me "cannot access archive 'discord-0.0.9.deb': No such file or directory but clearly the .deb is there in my desktop. Am I doing something wrong?
11:28<dmm>yuri: when you open a shell the default path is your homedir not your desktop
11:29<al_>yuri: ya, you either typed the name wrong or you're in the wrong directory
11:29<dmm>yuri: sudo dpkg -i ~/Desktop/discord-0.0.9.deb
11:29<dmm>maybe?
11:30<yuri>Hmmm lemme try.
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11:30<dmm>or rather sudo dpkg -i Desktop/discord-0.0.9.deb
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11:32<yuri>I tried both and same error.
11:32<al_>dmm: I installed gdm3 and then gnome. I'm running again. I noticed a lot of python3 files during the install of gnome so that would have been where I went wrong. But I guess it only removed initialization/setup files. Not runtime files
11:34<dmm>yuri: do you see the file when you run
11:34<dmm>ls Desktop
11:34<al_>yuri: it is sensitive to capitals. If you type 'ls', is the file you want displayed?
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11:43<yuri>Hello sorry I dc-ed. I am in class. ^^
11:43<yuri>Do you have any other suggestions to fix my problem?
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11:45<sqrt{not}>yuri: did you try the suggestion: ls Desktop
11:46<dmm>you should pay attention in class. not chat on irc. you might end up like me haha
11:46<yuri>You mean sudo dpkg -i /Desktop/discord-0.0.9.deb
11:46<dmm>ls Desktop
11:46<dmm>no / at beginning
11:47<yuri>This is important. I been trying to figure this out for a day now. I watched youtube videos and duckduckgo all night.
11:47<yuri>Oh
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11:47<dmm>Does that list the deb?
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11:47<yuri>You mean just typing ls Desktop in terminal?
11:48<dmm>yes
11:48<sqrt{not}>also on your dpkg -i command, no / on /Desktop
11:48<al_>dmm: jhutchins_wk thank you both for your help on this
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11:49<yuri>When I type in ls Desktop it says "nnot access 'Desktop': No such file or directory
11:50<sqrt{not}>yuri: what is the output of: pwd
11:50<dmm>al_: no problem. good luck on the rest of your Debian journey
11:51<yuri>pwd?
11:51<sqrt{not}>that is a command. type it, and tell us the result
11:51<yuri>I type pwd and it says /root
11:51<al_>yuri: try 'cd ~/Desktop' and then try the dpkg command again
11:52<yuri>Alright brb next class here I go.
11:52<dmm>yuri: oh your shell is running as root. That's why the relative path isn't working
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11:55<al_>yuri: try and find some tutorials on 'command line usage' you will need to get comfortable with that stuff to do anything fun with debian or any other linux distro
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11:56<yuri>When I type cd ~/Desktop it says "~bash: cd: /root/Desktop: No such file or directory
11:56<yuri>I am now thinking there's something wrong with my Debian/
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11:57<dmm>yuri: open a new, non-root shell
11:57<yuri>You mean su - yuri?
11:57<yuri>Switch to my user?
11:57<dmm>yes that would work
11:58<yuri>ok now cd ~/Desktop works!
11:58<yuri>:D
11:58<yuri>Now the discord installation worked
11:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 622] by debhelper
11:59<al_>Good to hear
11:59<yuri>Thank you!
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12:03<yuri>Do you know how to copy and paste into my terminal? Some of these .deb names are pretty long.
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12:07<al_> yuri: If you do a search for tab completion, it will probably point you to a nice tutorial on 'command line usage'. Which will save you a lot of time compared to copy and paste
12:07<sqrt{not}>yuri: why are you downloading individual .debs, and manually installing them via dpkg ? Are you following some instructions from somewhere ?
12:08<sqrt{not}>yuri: (I ask, because there are much easier, more modern, ways to install packages)
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12:27<alephnull>Thanks twb, I managed to get it to work with qemu-static.
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13:02<yuri>Hello
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13:06<yuri>Can someone help me with pasting into terminal?
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13:07<sqrt{not}>yuri: are you using gnome ?
13:08<yuri>I am using kde.
13:08<yuri>kda
13:08<yuri>Kde*
13:09<sqrt{not}>can you highlight text with your mouse ? do you have a mouse ?
13:09<yuri>I can highlight.
13:10<yuri>Right click in terminal does nothing for me tho.
13:10<sqrt{not}>if you have a mouse, you can paste with the middle button, or if no middle button, both left+right at same time
13:11<yuri>Ty
13:14<cc>there are usually some hotkeys as well
13:15<cc>ctrl-shift-c or ctrl-alt-c are possible candidates for copying, and save with v for pasting
13:15<cc>save=same*
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13:21<wannabe-mirror>just because i'm curious... how many certificates do you have in /etc/ssl/certs?
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13:25<yuri>When I try to install steam/VPNs/etc using .deb on desktop why do I get "Errors were encountered while processing"?
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13:29<bremner>yuri: tell us the actual error messages (paste.debian.net) and we might have most suggestions
13:30<bremner>generally if third party debs don't install, that's a question for the people that supplied the .deb, but give it shot, maybe it's something easy.
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13:39<yuri>https://paste.debian.net/1101638
13:39<yuri>That's the error.
13:39<bremner>try using apt install ./steam_latest.deb
13:40<yuri>It requires me to be in root?
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13:41<bremner>yes. you can use sudo, if you want
13:42<bremner>,steam
13:42<bremner>!steam
13:42<dpkg>Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. For help with upstream issues, ask #steamlug on irc.freenode.net. http://wiki.debian.org/Steam
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14:06<yuri>Thanks! I got steam now.
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14:14<yuri_>Turns out I just needed to fix my broken install.
14:15<yuri_>Alright, anyone have any tips for someone that's totally new to linux? To dos and not to dos.
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14:16<yuri_>Hm
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14:17<jhutchins_wk>!new user guide
14:17<jhutchins_wk>Rats.
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14:22<sqrt{not}>yuri_: This is a starting place for more information: https://www.debian.org/doc/
14:24<sney>!grounding
14:24<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
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15:34<yuri_>So I was thinking should I had started with Ubuntu? Since I am a totally noob at linux and apparently Ubuntu is more for inexperienced users.
15:35<somiaj>it depends on what your goals are, and what hardware you have.
15:36<somiaj>I have tried to set up novices with ubuntu, and it works okay, but ubuntu changes fairly quickly and often times upgrades would break the system (making a novice have to reinstall)
15:36<somiaj>so I personally found debian a much more solid system that dosen't change as quickly (which is nice for novices), but it is a bit harder to initially install
15:38<yuri_>I see. Debian is more stable huh. Well I guess I'll try my best to learn Debian as much as possible. Is there any must dos for newly install debian?
15:38<yuri_>Like setting up security system or something.
15:39<somiaj>Debian changes slowly, which increases stablitiy in some cases.
15:39<somiaj>but this also means, newer hardware won't work as well on debian as ubuntu
15:40<somiaj>For example if running debian buster (10.0), it is going to only get bug and security fixes for its life, it won't change.
15:40<somiaj>In about 2-3 years, debian will release a new stable one can choose to upgrade too (but plenty keep running old stable because it works and isn't changing)
15:40<somiaj>changing things can often break things.
15:40<Echoz[m]>yuri_: You might want to enable a firewall if you're gonna be connecting to untrusted networks
15:41<somiaj>That can help, though in debian services aren't running and listening on the public ip unless you install them/run them.
15:43<yuri_>Eh how do I enable a firewall? So Ubuntu is always improving by adding new things which can lead to unstable bugs. Debian is more always improving what is already there.
15:43<somiaj>yuri_: ubuntu has a much faster release cycle, and as set releases every 6 months or year
15:44<somiaj>yuri_: these changes can cause things to break. Debian does change and things do break, but if you keep with the current stable it is about every 2-3 years, instead of every 6months - year.
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15:44<somiaj>but as I said, the side affect is new software and hardware support takes a lot longer to get into debian.
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15:46<Echoz[m]>yuri_: If you're using Gnome on a laptop firewalld is great, as it has integrations for switching profiles based on the network connection in networkmanager, but otherwise the easier to use choice is UFW
15:46<Echoz[m]>But if you know iptables and it's a desktop you might as well just use that
15:46<yuri_>I think Debian is more for me then. I am not trying to do any high tech stuff.
15:46<yuri_>I am using kde.
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15:47<Echoz[m]>I don't know if KDE has integrations for any firewall software unfortunately
15:47<yuri_>I was debating if I wanted kde or gnome. Kde is just more windows like I guess.
15:47<yuri_>Oh
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15:47<Echoz[m]>but ufw and gufw should work independently of your desktop choice
15:47<somiaj>Though you shouldn't need a firewall, I mean what is it you are trying to block?
15:48<Echoz[m]>(gufw being a graphical interface for ufw)
15:48<somiaj>debian doen't really just run services on your network, so if you have something running on a port, you have most likely chosen to run this and want that port to be open.
15:48<yuri_>Tracking. I mean I have a VPN and going to install no script. I think I am pretty safe.
15:48<sney>linux networking defaults are pretty sane for e.g. having a laptop that sometimes connects to wifi
15:48<sney>it's not like windows where it's constantly trying to discover the rest of the network
15:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 622] by debhelper
15:49<sney>firewalls are great for datacenter stuff
15:49<somiaj>or have lots of services (like remote desktop) listening on open ports that can be accessed.
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15:49<Echoz[m]>somiaj: it's a good idea if you're going to be connecting to untrusted networks, especially if you're using the machine for any web development or something else that might be listening to more than 127.0.0.1
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15:50<somiaj>Echoz[m]: Sure, but by default, debian doens't have any thing like this running, so a firewall isn't really needed.
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15:51<Echoz[m]>Totally agree, but it's a good precaution to cover yourself from anything that you might add in the future
15:52<yuri_>Is there a website for how to install firewall?
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15:53<Echoz[m]>apt-get install ufw gufw
15:54<Echoz[m]>But this page I suppose has some basic info: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianFirewall
15:54<somiaj>yuri_: firewalls are complicated things, and your system already has all the tools (nftables (new standard) and iptables) for this
15:54<somiaj>There are various applications (like Echoz[m] is mentioning) that help manage the rules, but at some level this should all be done with nftables on new stystems.
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16:02<mattkime>my apt-get setup expects to load packages from cd-rom. Whats a good online repo to use instead?
16:03<somiaj>mattkime: what version of debian are you using?
16:04<mmk>i can't use apt-get in my kali linux ??? have idea ??
16:04<sney>!kali
16:04<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
16:04<dboles>also when you go ther
16:05<dboles>"can't use" is not a problem description
16:05<somiaj>Kali linux is not meant for end users (check their webpage and they say it should not be used like a stnadard distro)
16:05<sney>I wonder if they have their own factoid bot that yells at the newbies
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16:05<yuri_>Ok wow
16:05<yuri_>Firewalls are complicated...
16:05<somiaj>sney: no, they just don't have much info, and as the flavor of the year, we get them here.
16:06<sim590>Is fstrimming enabled by default debian installation? When trying `fstrim -a`, I get 'fstrim: /: the discard operation is not supported'
16:06<sney>!tell mattkime about buster sources.list
16:06<somiaj>yuri_: and don't do much if you aren't running any services that listen on your network.
16:06-!-dboles [~daniel@054754ed.skybroadband.com] has quit [Quit: dboles]
16:06<yuri_>How do I know what services listen on my network?
16:07<mendelmunkis>sney: I'm somewhat tempted to make a bot that watches here and kali and counts what percentage of their users came here first. (or after)
16:07<sqrt{not}>mattkime: are you running buster ?
16:07<sney>yuri_: 'netstat -4 -l -p' will give you the basic list
16:08<sney>mendelmunkis: ha. that would be interesting
16:08<somiaj>https://docs.kali.org/introduction/should-i-use-kali-linux -- Is Kali linux right for you...NO
16:08<somiaj>mendelmunkis: since they use debian packages and don't change things, any user who installs a irc client will come here first
16:08<somiaj>(well at least don't change the irc clients defaults)
16:09<sney>I wrote patches for hexchat to change those defaults and they are included in the ubuntu package, which is why we don't get ubuntu users in here. the patch is right there and super easy to modify for your own purposes, so the only viable explanation is the other distro devs don't care
16:09<yuri_>The command is netstat -4 -l -p?
16:10<somiaj>yuri_: yes, but pay attention, many of those services will only be listening on 'localhost', not your outside network.
16:10<sney>yes. netstat shows network statistics, and -4 limits it to ipv4, -l shows listening, and -p tries to associate it with a running process.
16:11<yuri_>Weird terminal says "command not found".
16:11<mattkime>somiaj - buster
16:12<sney>mattkime: check your messages from the dpkg bot
16:12<sney>yuri_: you may need to install net-tools
16:14<somiaj>mattkime: yea, check the bot's message sney sent you, I was gonna send that to you, just didn't assume you were running buster.
16:14<mattkime>thanks sney!
16:15<yuri_>Oh
16:16<yuri_>Also how do I ping someone? lol
16:16<yuri_>So they know I am talking to them.
16:16<sim590>I just found that LVM/LUKS setup needs special treament. However, the source I found says I should add discard options to lvm.conf, fstb and crypttab, but also wouldn't those option trigger trimming in real time? What if I prefer trimming once per week? Do I need to add the options to fstab and all also?
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16:18<sney>yuri_: just put their name as the first thing in the line. start typing the name and hit tab to complete it
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16:19<yuri_>I was watching this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWBHJmAmZgk&t=142s). Should I do any of these?
16:20<yuri_>I did the "sudo ufw default deny incoming" & "sudo ufw default allow outgoing". Is this secure?
16:21<sney>an implicit deny incoming was already present on your system
16:21<sney>it's better to try and read about these things and understand what they do, rather than blindly typing commands you find on the internet
16:22<sney>there are some specific recommendations here that are only justified if you're doing certain things. definitely not a "best practices" guide
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16:23<yuri_>I see I see. Should I sudo ufw reset then just enable without touching anything?
16:23<yuri_>I am learning.
16:23<sney>I'm still with somiaj in that you don't need ufw at all
16:24<yuri_>Is there any downsides to having it?
16:24<sney>look, I'm a linux ops admin with over a decade of experience, and the only time I deal with firewalls is on edge devices
16:24-!-thiras [~thiras@195.174.215.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<sney>like network appliances, routers and the like. there are very few reasons to run a separate firewall on your computer.
16:25<sney>read up on "cargo cult" and keep that in mind whenever you see howtos like this.
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16:26<yuri_>Let me see what cargo cult are.
16:27<sney>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming is a decent summary of what I'm talking about
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16:28<yuri_>Basically doing unnecessary things because you don't understand why the reason why you are doing it.
16:28<sney>yes, and copying it because it was on another working system somewhere
16:29<yuri_>I inst alled Synaptic Package Manger too. Is that necessary?
16:30<sney>nope
16:30<sney>you're using KDE, which has a package manager gui called Discover already built in
16:31<yuri_>>following random guides blindly
16:31<retrospectacus>nothing is necessary! Just install things that do what you want your computer to do.
16:31<sney>Synaptic can also misbehave in some more advanced configurations
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16:31<sney>and what retro said.
16:32<yuri_>Is this what slaves felt when they experienced freedom?
16:33<yuri_>Ok so I installed something using Synaptic Package and I forgot what that something is. Is there a way to track it down?
16:33<sney>the file /var/log/dpkg.log keeps a record of installed packages
16:34<yuri_>When I type that in my permission was denied even in root.
16:34<sney>it's a text file, you need to open it in a text editor
16:34<sney>or a pager like less
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16:39<yuri_>Well that's a lot of logs.
16:39<retrospectacus>just go to the bottom
16:40<retrospectacus>if you are using `less`, press shift-G
16:43<yuri_>It's probably nothing important anyways. Couldn't find it. Welp I gtg. See ya.
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17:04<retrospectacus>df -h
17:04<retrospectacus>oops
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17:23<yuri>Hello again
17:25<retrospectacus>welcome back
17:25<yuri>Could any of the programs in Synaptic be harmful?
17:25<yuri>Ty
17:26<yuri>Also I miss task manager in windows. Is there something similar in Debian?
17:29<retrospectacus>"top" or "ps" are commonly used on the cli. There are also gui task managers
17:29<yuri>Which one would you recommend?
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17:29<retrospectacus>ps takes a lot of options... I use "ps faux" or "ps fax"
17:31<yuri>You mean this https://packages.debian.org/sid/php-ps?
17:32<retrospectacus>no
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17:32<retrospectacus>just type ps fax on the console
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18:00<yuri>How do I install this "https://packages.debian.org/buster/bluedevil"?
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18:02<yuri>Nvm
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18:08<yuri>Why does my headphones keeps failing to connect to my linux bluetooth?
18:09<yuri>It's trusted and paired.
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18:18<annadane>yuri, missing firmware? what does dmesg | grep -i firmware say?
18:19<annadane>also re: task managers, htop is nice
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18:21<yuri>It says finished loading firmware with a bunch of firewares.
18:22<annadane>no "failed to load"?
18:22<yuri>No failed to load.
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18:23<yuri>I am going to try https://www.maketecheasier.com/setup-bluetooth-in-linux/.
18:24<annadane>seems like a good article, from skimming it
18:24<annadane>not all debian advice on the internet is good but that seems fine
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18:26<annadane>also https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser
18:26<yuri>even with the bluetooth manager it doesn't work
18:26<yuri>i tired bluetooth user
18:26<yuri>this is the error
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18:27<yuri>"blueman.bluez.errors.DBusFailedError:Protocol not avaliable"
18:27<yuri>Am I missing something?
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18:30<annadane>i did some across https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/issues/547 which recommends installing pulseaudio-module-bluetooth, killing pulseaudio and restarting it (pulseaudio -k and pulseaudio --start)
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18:30<annadane>perhaps try that
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18:33<annadane>actually maybe there's a systemctl restart pulseaudio thing, i've never tried it
18:34<annadane>of course i've also assumed you're using pulseaudio, which need not be the case...
18:35<yuri>Hmm
18:36<yuri>I am going to log out and see how it goes.
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18:42<yuri>ok wtf
18:42<yuri>it works now...
18:44<yuri>it
18:44<yuri>it
18:45<yuri>it's connected but when i play videos my laptop mic plays
18:46<annadane>are you using pulseaudio? pavucontrol is a good interface to redirect sounds
18:46<yuri>how do i know if i am using pulseaudio?
18:47<annadane>dpkg -l pulseaudio
18:47<dpkg>No packages found matching pulseaudio
18:47<annadane>shut up. :P
18:48<dvs>dpkg: shut up
18:48<dpkg>No, I won't, and you can't make me. :P
18:49<yuri>paste.debian.net/1101662
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18:50<annadane>so yeah, it's installed. if you apt install pavucontrol and launch it, it'll give you an interface to move sound sources to different outputs
18:50<yuri>I admire my own determination. Every time reinstalling windows pop up in my mind, I kill it.
18:51<annadane>it's for the best
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19:00<yuri>I DID IT
19:00<yuri>IT WORKS
19:01<yuri>Such joy comes from getting debian to work.
19:01<yuri>Thank you Annadane
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20:32<yuri>I can't shutdown, log out, etc.
20:33<yuri>When I do it's stuck.
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20:35<annadane>yuri, does it leave you on any screens with messages?
20:35<yuri>No
20:35<yuri>My computer freezes.
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20:41<yuri>Oh yeah, what's the command for fixing installation.
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20:46<annadane>yuri, fixing installation...?
20:46<annadane>elaborate?
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20:49<lolcat--007>hello it is possible to start x as a root in debian 10?
20:49<annadane>it's not recommended
20:49<annadane>you *can*, but don't
20:49<yuri>nvm I was talking about sudo apt-get install -f
20:51<yuri> paste.debian.net/1101674
20:52<lolcat--007>annadane: ok is not recommended but i mean start x from the display manager as root
20:52<yuri>I think there is something very wrong with my Debian linux.
20:52<blast007>yuri: that output is normal when you're installing packages with dpkg
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20:53<blast007>does 'sudo apt install -f' install the dependencies?
20:53<sqrt{not}>yuri: your install of minecraft just has unsatisfied dependencies.
20:54<annadane>why do you even want to use x as root?
20:54<sqrt{not}>yuri: what blast007 said
20:54<blast007>actually I guess that openjdk-8-jre isn't in Debian Buster as that's old
20:54<annadane>yeah it's not
20:54<blast007>buster has openjdk-11-jre
20:55<annadane>might be able to just use equivs and install openjre 11 anyway...
20:55<blast007>or use their tar.gz instead
20:56<annadane>i always do that, i never install .debs
20:56<annadane>that's just me, though
20:58<yuri>But like my Debian can't even shutdown or log out properly.
20:59<sqrt{not}>,v openjdk-8-jre
20:59<judd>Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch: 8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u222-b10-1; experimental: 8u232-b04-1
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20:59<sqrt{not}>yuri: what are you doing to shutdown or logout, and what happens instead of what you expect ?
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21:01<yuri>I click shutdown, logout, etc.
21:01<yuri>It freezes my computers.
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21:03<sqrt{not}>yuri: can you go to a text terminal, with e.g. ctrl-alt-F5 ?
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21:08<yuri_>Ok ctrl-alt-f5 brought me to blackness
21:08<yuri_>and i couldn't login and it stuck there
21:10<sqrt{not}>try other choices: ctrl-alt-F4 -F3 etc. one of them will bring you back to KDE land (even if still stuck) some other one might offer you a login
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21:12<yuri_>Yes.
21:13-!-Delta-One [~delta@00023074.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13<yuri_>So it's minecraft.deb's fault, not my fault or my debian?
21:14-!-yuri [~yuri@192.133.84.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:14<yuri_>AHhhh
21:15<sqrt{not}>ummm, is it OK now ? or what was minecraft.deb doing last time you saw it ?
21:16<yuri_>What should I do if normal Minecraft.deb doesn't work?
21:16<yuri_>I posted a link.
21:17<sqrt{not}>your link that showed you using dpkg again to install a downloaded .deb ? where it complained about dependencies ?
21:17<sqrt{not}>is your computer frozen still ?
21:17<yuri_>Oh it's not. But when I try to shutdown it freezes.
21:17<yuri_>So I have to force shutdown.
21:17<yuri_>Also Minecraft.deb is still refusing to install.
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21:20<sqrt{not}>you have to use something more modern than dpkg, if you want it to try to install the dependencies.
21:20<yuri_>Oh like what?
21:20<sqrt{not}>like apt-get or like apt
21:20<sqrt{not}>remember ? we went through this before
21:21<yuri_>OH apt. Not dpjg. :( Dpjg don't get enough love.
21:27<blast007>that .deb likely won't work anyway as it depends on a package that isn't in buster
21:27<yuri_>blast007 paste.debian.net/1101679
21:27<yuri_>:(
21:27<blast007>use the mincraft tar.gz instead of the .deb
21:27<blast007>minecraft*
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21:36<yuri_>How do you install that?
21:36<yuri_>Do you still use apt or dpkg?
21:37<blast007>you extract it to your home directory
21:37<blast007>might be a script in there, I dunno
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21:48<yuri_>Ok
21:48<yuri_>That worked.
21:48<yuri_>But my shutdown problem is still here.
21:48<yuri_>I don't think that's normal.
21:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 601] by debhelper
21:49<yuri_>I feel like something's wrong with my Debian and idk what.
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21:50<yuri_>Is there an appdata for linux?
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21:53<blast007>yuri_: there would be hidden directories in your home directory (hidden files and directories start with a period in linux) that would contain configuration and cache.
21:54<blast007>some software might put a hidden directory right in the home folder, some might put a directory under ~/.config/ or ~/.local/
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22:01<yuri_>How do I access it?
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22:06<thomasross>anyone have a good solution for saving/restoring window positions on monitor disconnect/connect?
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22:41<yuri>It was fun. I think I am going to try Ubuntu for a bit. :) Thanks for all the help! I might be back one day as a power user!
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22:54<somiaj>thomasross: what desktop are you using?
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23:07<thomasross>somiaj: xfce
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23:16<somiaj>hmm, not sure. I wonder if xfce's session management could help with this, like save a session when the monintors are connected, teh restore that session when you reconncet
23:16<somiaj>there are some other non desktop centered session managers, maybe one of these can help. I can't really think of any other way.
23:16<somiaj>(And not finding much in google either)
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23:58<parrot>hellow ,this is my first login this.
23:59<somiaj>!parrot
23:59<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages https://docs.parrotsec.org/community, or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
---Logclosed Fri Sep 20 00:00:11 2019