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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-10-07

---Logopened Mon Oct 07 00:00:45 2019
---Daychanged Mon Oct 07 2019
00:00<annadane>(which is a cool way of doing it, i like void, but that's a separate discussion)
00:01<annadane>systemd units are of course configurable as to when they start
00:01<rob_debian>Hi DusXMT, thanks for answering ! I refer to default services that are started in debian initialization, compared to a Linux Distro targeted to user friendly environment, not Production, DNS, cloud or Database Servers, as it's the case of Debian, if you intend to use it as Server
00:02<rob_debian>Hi annadane, nice to meet you here again ! Please, DusXMT and annadane, did you understand my question (sometimes I get them so confusing, sorry)
00:03<rob_debian>But my doubt is: Debian can be used both as Server and Desktop. It was developed to reach these goals... Linux Lite is just developed to run as Desktop.
00:03<annadane>i don't know how to answer, sorry
00:03<DusXMT>I think the answser is "no", but I'd have to set up various VMs and compare them to bee sure
00:03<annadane>i don't imagine debian is too bloated
00:04<DusXMT>One thing I know for sure is that CentOS and RHEL come with a _lot_ more stuff in the default install, and it takes ages to boot it up
00:04<annadane>set up a fresh debian install and type systemctl status
00:04<annadane>to see what's running
00:04<annadane>hard to say without a detailed comparison
00:04<rob_debian>I have the same impression, annadane, but I'm getting some arguments with you to answer some people more precisely
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00:05<DusXMT>keep in mind, Debian wasn't developed "to be a server OS", Debian is the Universal Operating System (or at least was, its use-cases are narrowing a little as less people use less exotic hardware)
00:05<rob_debian>yes, you are right, annadane, I see. Please DusXMT, isn't that the case of Debian too ? More or less similar to CentOS ?
00:06<DusXMT>the case of what?
00:06<DusXMT>*as less people use more exotic hardware
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00:08<rob_debian>Debian is more similar to CentOS than it's if compared to Linux Lite (despite the fact this Distro is debian and ubuntu based).
00:08<DusXMT>In some ways, sure, but that's a very broad question
00:08<rob_debian>I thought Debian was originally developed to be both a Server and Desktop, as it's the case of CentOS
00:09<DusXMT>a question which's answer is ultimately subjective, as everyone takes different aspects into account
00:10<DusXMT>Debian does come with some services pre-installed, but none of them are server applications as far as I know
00:10<rob_debian>I see annadane, but 'systmectl status' should show me more detailed about this question, if debian is heavier than Linux Lite in default installation
00:10<annadane>maybe not specifically designed *for* that... like, here's a thought experiment, take debian and then take FreeBSD, and try to set up a desktop on both. you'll find FreeBSD is more complicated to do so, it's more server-focused... but people do run fbsd on their desktops happily for years. it's not that debian is specifically designed for desktops, it just means that in this hypothetical example the BSDs require more
00:10<annadane>manual configuration
00:10<annadane>it's quicker to set things up on debian, and on linux generally, that's the more important distinction, not desktop vs server
00:11<DusXMT>Heck, even ssh is something you have to install on your own (either selecting the "SSH server" checkbox or installing the openssh-server package)
00:11<annadane>debian does aim to be relatively lightweight although we do get complaints of "why did this package install so many dependencies" sometimes
00:12<rob_debian>Oh, I see annadane, I had this experience with FreeBSD in the past.
00:12<DusXMT>If you want a truly light-weight distro, I'd recommend something musl-based, like Alpine, or perhaps even Adelie
00:13<annadane>though musl has limitations
00:13<annadane>void is quite minimal - it has both glibc and musl - but it's also a rolling distro with new packages, it's not 'stable' like debian
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00:14<DusXMT>(either way, I have to go now)
00:14<rob_debian>Oh no ! I'm Debian user till the rest of my Life (and after Death too, lol) I would never replace Debian to any other Linux or BSD or Illumos Distro. Impossible !
00:14<rob_debian>Fine DusXMT, thanks for answering me !
00:14<DusXMT>don't let blind loyalism fool you
00:14<DusXMT>question everything
00:14<DusXMT>make up your own mind
00:15<rob_debian>sure, I really make up my own mind and based on my nice experience with Debian, always comparing its quality as a whole, to other OS :)
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00:16<rob_debian>Have you a good rest DusXMT, sleep well and thank you very much for attention and explanations provided !:)
00:17<rob_debian>I thought Debian was more focused to Servers than a original desktop Distro, such as Linux Lite,
00:17<rob_debian>annadane
00:17<rob_debian>I really thought about that.
00:18<annadane>anyway, i'm just not really sure how to answer your question
00:24<rob_debian>I see annadane, no problem ! But I really think hard to consider Debian is as lightweight as Linux Lite... Sure I have to make some tests, as you observed before....
00:26<annadane>part of the problem is that it's too general of a question
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00:28<annadane>i think it may also partially depend on what desktop you use but i'm not sure
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00:29<annadane>my systemctl status seems fairly minimal and i haven't done much to the system, in terms of stopping services from starting on boot
00:29<annadane>you can, though, if you wanted
00:29<rob_debian>Sometimes I just express some limited aspects of my complete thought, because of my limitations to transmit them through other language
00:30<annadane>debian is known for sane defaults (for the most part) so it stands to reason it's relatively minimal
00:30<rob_debian>I see annadane. I will use this command to compare debian and linux lite in real hardware in soon future.
00:30<rob_debian>and taking care of comparing Debian to Lite using the same DE, such as XFCE
00:30<annadane>if the question is "i have old hardware with not a lot of memory or disk space", then that's more concrete
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00:32<rob_debian>For example, I've read in an article about Linux Lite, that it requires only CPU a 1 Ghz, 768 MB de RAM e HDD/SD de 8GB, to run fine and fast
00:32<annadane>and i know some people see systemd as 'bloat' but my impression isn't that, as far as i can tell lennart poettering's goal is to start less services
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00:33<annadane>well, for instance, https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s04.en.html
00:33<annadane>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch02s01.en.html
00:35<rob_debian>Thanks for these links, annadane, I'll read them before going to sleep ! You said 'lennart poettering's goal'....
00:36<rob_debian>I really need to read the Debian manuals a lot in English, as well as a way to be able to more fully and fluently express my thoughts and impressions about Debian.
00:37<annadane>so lennart poettering (sorry, i should explain this, it's really not clear) was one of the people responsible for this thing called systemd which runs as init system and service manager in debian and a lot of other linuxses, making it an integral part of the system... and some people think it's bloated, but poettering has stated the goal of systemd is to a) start less services and b) start more in parallel
00:37<annadane>your english is fine rob, it's just about asking the right questions
00:38<annadane>the answer to your question basically is "yes, debian can run as both server and desktop" and as for "does it have more bloat than other linux operating systems?" i don't really know but i don't think so
00:38<rob_debian>I clearly realize that I often end up giving a wrong or very limited impression of my views to you due to my current limitation with the English language
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00:40<rob_debian>Oh, sure, if you think like that, I'll use your thought as a reference, since you use debian for a long time.
00:40<annadane>i know i certainly would struggle with portuguese... you're doing a fine job
00:41<rob_debian>Oh, thank you annadane ! I promise you I'll invest more deep learning in debian :) I really love this OS !
00:42<annadane>i wish we had more documentation in other languages
00:43<rob_debian>Currently I need more well formulated and complete basic knowledge about debian, because I'm moderating Linux Brasil channel, and it's growing every day. Currently we have about 10444 users. Majority of them ask about Debian and Debian based Distros all the time (lots of Arch Linux and Ubuntu users too)
00:44<annadane>that's a lot!
00:45<rob_debian>yeah, and I'm a Moderator, Me and 4 more Moderators. Two of us are Fanatic Debian Users (me and my partner)
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00:45<rob_debian>And we have a Administrator. All the time, people ask about issues related to Debian, and I'm becoming able to fix some of their questions
00:45<annadane>basically here's my answer with bloat, it's not really bloated, the number of services started by default isn't great, and things you don't want can be turned off - as for bloat during package installation, it can perhaps be a bit bloated, debian installs packages designated as Depends and Recommends by default but you can apt install --no-install-recommends <package> if you're sure you don't want packages debian
00:45<annadane>'recommends' but aren't strictly required
00:48<rob_debian>Oh, this technical explanation you gave me now is really too important ! I always have been living with these doubts - related to number of services started by default, and things (libs ?) I don't want, can be turned off before the complete package installation in debian
00:48<annadane>https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ is an interesting document for considerations like this
00:49<rob_debian>I have this here, I will read about it. In fact, I need all these knowledge, annadane. I really love research about debian !
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00:50<annadane>i guess your question was intelligible after all rob_debian, i guess i'm just cranky because i'm tired :P
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00:50<rob_debian>Oh annadane, sorry, I'm talking to you, but you need to sleep ! Go for bed, My Friend ! I'm making you more tired now !
00:51<annadane>haha, i'm probably not going to sleep for a few hours, my sleep schedule is messed up anyway
00:52<annadane>i do wish we had more non english support, debian can be a bit lacking sometimes in that area
00:52<rob_debian>Do you want to tell me that you suffer from insomnia? Or are you going to have to do some activities before you can retire to sleep?
00:52<annadane>no, i'm just a night owl :P
00:53<rob_debian>oh, a night owl !
00:53<rob_debian>doesn't it disturb your health ?
00:53<annadane>anyway, my systemctl status seems pretty minimal to me
00:53<annadane>oh, i don't know, different people have different sleep requirements i guess
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00:54<rob_debian>I need to sleep about 8 hours regularly; if I don't sleep enough, I tend to stay tired and stressed all the day.
00:56<annadane>you may enjoy the "systemd for administrators blog series" as posted here https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
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00:56<annadane>which i've yet to read, because i'm lazy, lol
00:57<rob_debian>hum...difficult to consider you "lazy", for people here interact fluently with you, and you interact fast and fluently with them :)
00:58<rob_debian>I personally like Debian Reference because it is more focused in Debian Administration through command line
00:59<rob_debian>And I really need to get more approach to command line Linux
01:00<rob_debian>I'm not so sure it it's updated enough, but it suits my needs currently, for I lack a lot of basic shell learning
01:00<annadane>but it's nice that people don't *have* to, it's quite easy to learn a few principles and get yourself started, and then only do more complicated things later
01:01<rob_debian>yes, agree. I suppose that is the way you developed all your knowledge about Linux and UNIX-like Systems
01:02<rob_debian>I always conclude I ought to be more organized and focused on logical steps to get more deep knowledge in Debian System Administration
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01:02<annadane>well, you are in many ways, you ask a lot of questions but that can be good, it's better than overconfidence and screwing something up
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01:03<annadane>oftentimes the best way to learn things is to ask detailed, focused questions
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01:04<annadane>it's good that everyone can be informed, then they can become a part of the community and contribute back to the actual development of the operating system
01:04<annadane>everyone was a novice at one time
01:05<rob_debian>I always worry not to tire you with often repetitive questions. Fortunately, most people here have always treated me very well, and with a good deal of patience. You yourself have always been very patient with me and treat me very well. I love you so much, annadane!
01:06<rob_debian>This is also my concern: acquiring a greater knowledge base to give back to the community, all that it has done for me to date, and it has not been little. All the well-founded knowledge I have about Debian I have gained here, more than anywhere else.
01:07<rob_debian>Here in Brazil we don't have so many debian users. Majority of us is concentrated in south and southeast region, where I live.
01:08<rob_debian>annadane, I live in this region: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/cotidiano/2018/01/1953222-sao-paulo-rejeita-adensamento-que-poderia-deixa-la-mais-aprazivel.shtml
01:08<rob_debian>lots of buildings and quite poluted sometimes
01:09<annadane>the thing with debian is what we have in terms of documentation is ok, but it could be better, it's not as cohesive as the BSDs (it's not terrible either)... the more people who use debian, who feel they can get help and be comfortable with the system, they might take an interest and improve the project in some way, whether it's writing documentation, working on the website, maintaining packages, filing bug reports and
01:09<annadane>so on
01:09<annadane>everything feeds into everything else
01:11<rob_debian>I see, it should be better and more well organized, like FreeBSD Documentation, for example
01:11<annadane>i just noticed that https://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals does actually have non english links, that's nice
01:12<annadane>so for instance if you're more comfortable with portuguese (i don't remember your primary language) the handbook is here https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/index.pt-br.html and the reference manual is here https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/index.pt.html
01:12<annadane>there are also of course spanish and portuguese mailing lists
01:13<rob_debian>Yes, we have debian manuals in portuguese too. Debian Reference in portuguese. But as I need to study english, I prefer reading them in english.
01:13<annadane>which may be more beneficial to non english speakers... because we don't have a lot of non english users who use the non english IRC debian chatrooms
01:13<rob_debian>For example, my Debian System is in english, not in portuguese
01:14<annadane>fair enough, just giving you the option, or if you know someone else who prefers to read in portuguese you can link them those
01:14<annadane>i only found out about those links now
01:14<rob_debian>I installed debian reference package here a long time ago, both in english and portuguese
01:15<rob_debian>yeah, I do it all the time for majority here prefer reading in portuguese. Please annadane, if you permit me: where are you from ?
01:15<annadane>canada
01:15<rob_debian>Really ? The Country I intend to visit and living one day ?
01:15<annadane>bring a jacket. :P
01:16<rob_debian>I can't believe in that ! Oh, it's very nice temperature over there !
01:16<annadane>it is now but in winter you'll want one
01:16<rob_debian>I supported -4°C in the past in south brazil during winter
01:17<rob_debian>Sure, it's very rigorous winter in Canada :)
01:17<rob_debian>I never saw snow in my life, only through photos
01:18<jlgaddis>Is there a "more correct" way to override the options set in /etc/X11/Xsession.options than simply editing the file?
01:19<rob_debian>The heat here is devastating, tires me and burns my skin (my skin is very clear, the origin of my European family), and if I lived in Canada, it would become even clearer.
01:19<jm_>just edit the file
01:20<rob_debian>Well annadane, I must go now, a hard working day is waiting me. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support ! Always glad and nice to see you here :)
01:20<rob_debian>Have you a good rest and final night !
01:21<rob_debian>See you !
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01:29<jlgaddis>jm_: alrighty, thanks
01:30<jm_>jlgaddis: no worries
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01:40<LeLutin>for some reason, if I install postfix manually on a vanilla debian install, it replaces exim4 (as expected) however if I install a package that depends on postfix, apt decides not to replace exim4 but rather marks this as a dependency conflict.. I don't understand why this is happening, anybody has an idea about this?
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01:45<jm_>you mean something actually depends on postfix rather than something like mail-transport-agent or default-mta
01:45<jm_>?
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01:51<LeLutin>jm_: yes. it's a non-debian package.. a shared-hosting control panel that currently only interfaces with postfix
01:52<LeLutin>or .. rather more precisely: a debian package that's not in the debian main repository
01:52<jm_>LeLutin: ok, and with conflict you actually mean it asks for confirmation that it's OK to remove exim4 and replace it with postfix?
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01:53<LeLutin>jm_: right that's what happens if I install postfix directly. but if it gets pulled in by the other package's "Depends:" then apt says postfix won't get installed and doesn't ask to replace exim4
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01:54<LeLutin>I'm just wondering what could cause this difference in behaviour. if I know, maybe I'll be able to find an option to instruct apt to replace exim4 during the installation of that package
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01:58<jm_>have you checked policy output for it?
01:58<LeLutin>jm_: you mean for exim4 or postfix?
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01:59<jm_>LeLutin: I meant for that other package, but now that you mention it - what exactly does apt say?
02:01<LeLutin>jm_: I'll bring up a new VM to get the output
02:03<LeLutin>oh.. I realize that I didn't mention that yet: that's on debian stretch. I am somewhat expecting the same to happen with buster, but I'd have to test specifically with that release
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02:10<LeLutin>jm_: that's the error that I get when installing the package (alternc) that depends on postfix: https://paste.debian.net/1104990/
02:11<LeLutin>I'm currently running the same test on buster to see if the same happens
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02:14<jm_>LeLutin: provide this info too:
02:14<jm_>!bat
02:14<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
02:14<jm_>for postfix and postfix-mysql
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02:59<hani>hi
03:00<hani>i need some guidness about parrot os
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03:04<lovely>hi
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03:08<wannabe-mirror>this is the debian main irc channel. debian != arrot.
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03:11<ad_hacker>Hello Hackers !!
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04:55<blackbit>according to rmadison the package 'firefox' is currently only available in unstable - that's surprising to me. am i missing something?
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05:01<alphazero>hello
05:01<thsnr>blackbit: stable only contains firefox-esr
05:02<alphazero>why
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05:03<alphazero>i am new here
05:03<blackbit>yes. but wasn't firefox in testing before?
05:04<alphazero>who can speak in french//
05:05<thsnr>!fr
05:05<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec.
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05:05<thsnr>blackbit: ask testing questions in #debian-next. but as far as i can tell, non-esr firefox has not been in testing since 2017
05:05<annadane>blackbit, https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox
05:06<annadane>firefox mainline hasn't been in testing in a while
05:06<annadane>,v firefox-es
05:06<judd>No package named 'firefox-es' was found in amd64.
05:06<annadane>sigh
05:06<annadane>fine i'll use the tracker. :P
05:06<supaman>monday strikes again
05:06<annadane>ah ok esr is in everything
05:07<annadane>which makes sense. because it's the critical, officially-supported-in-stable one
05:07<annadane>though that doesn't make sense because firefox-esr basically never makes the typical sid -> testing -> stable transition
05:07<alphazero> i found hexchat in my computer i don't know what it is
05:07<annadane>maybe it does...
05:07<annadane>hexchat is an IRC client
05:09<annadane>but yeah like, AFAIK firefox 60 will be EOL later this month, then we'll get 68
05:09<alphazero>what i can gain here
05:09<thsnr>firefox-esr should also take the same trip. you can even see it now where esr in sid is 68
05:09<annadane>so i suppose yeah, it'll have been in testing for a while
05:10<annadane>yeah, so i'm just stupid
05:10<annadane>alphazero, this is a channel for debian support questions
05:10<annadane>and me being an idiot
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05:13<alphazero>ok thank
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05:31<alphazero>i am using linux but i don't know where i can active wifi
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05:36<duclicsic>alphazero: what linux distribution is it?
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05:37<annadane>firefox 60 was a bit special because a bunch of rust stuff had to be backported too for stable but i'm sure it too took the same journey
05:38<alphazero>duclicsic I don't know how i can see it
05:39<duclicsic>alphazero: is it Parrot linux?
05:40<duclicsic>or maybe Kali?
05:42<alphazero>but is not kali ou parrot
05:43<duclicsic>where did you download it?
05:43<annadane>what does ls /etc | grep version say? if you don't know where you downloaded it from
05:44<annadane>(i wish there was a more foolproof way of checking)
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05:46<alphazero>un ami me la donnE AVEC
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05:48<duclicsic>alphazero: what we're trying to get at, is that we don't think you're running debian linux. This channel is dedicated to supporting users of debian linux, so if you're using something else we can't help you.
05:48<annadane>alphazero, cat /etc/issue
05:49<annadane>in your terminal. what does it say?
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05:51<alphazero>you will excuse me for my litle english. annadame; what i can get on my terminal for say me
05:51<annadane>"cat /etc/issue"
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05:51<annadane>(without quotation marks)
05:51<duclicsic>annadane: I get the feeling even "in your terminal" is causing confusion here
05:52<alphazero>i am trying it
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05:53<ThatstheGUY>anyone know how to get socket cans?
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05:55<alphazero>after typing it, terminal said ; no such fil or directory
05:56<annadane>okay, so probably not debian
05:56<annadane>hmm
05:56<annadane>what about ls /etc | grep version
05:57<annadane>if that doesn't give anything either, cat /proc/version
05:58<annadane>i'm sure there's an easier way to do this and i'm just being colossally dumb
06:01<annadane>alphazero, comprends? en peut parce en francais un peu, j'parle aussi
06:01<annadane>parle*
06:02<annadane>fait: ls /etc | grep version
06:02-!-Brigo [~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:02<annadane>ou cat /proc/version
06:02<annadane>ou demandez au votre ami quel version de linux vous avez :P
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06:04<alphazero>i am trying to typing it. my keyboard is qwerty that i don't manage well
06:06<annadane>desole aussi pour ma mauvais francais
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06:10<wannabe-mirror>virtualbox could (by installing the guest additions) change resolution of the guest when the user changed the window size. kvm simply stretches the guest window instead. until now i have appreciated debian allowing me to choose what systems i use for which tasks, but that does not seem to apply anymore
06:12<alphazero>annadane for your french... lol. ok i tryed with cat/proc/version this is version 4.9.0-7-amd64
06:13<annadane>that sounds like debian stretch
06:13<annadane>alphazero, cat /etc/debian_version
06:13<annadane>well, i just tried that earlier, didn't i
06:14<annadane>oh, i'm sorry, that's from proc... it's late and i'm tired
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06:15<annadane>that certainly seems like stretch's kernel, though. duclicsic, any more help here? i think you'd probably handle this better
06:16<annadane>alphazero, can you copy paste the full entry in /proc/version?
06:16<alphazero>ok
06:17<alphazero>ok i will try it
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06:17<annadane>though that still doesn't tell you what you're running, just the hostname...
06:18<annadane>i'm surprised ls /etc | grep version gave you "no such file or directory"
06:18<duclicsic>alphazero: I asked where you downloaded linux from, do you remember?
06:19<alphazero>me too i am surprised
06:19<alphazero>duclicsic no. my friend gave me with it
06:20<annadane>4.9.0-7-amd64 is an old debian stretch kernel, it's a shame /etc/debian_version is presumably missing
06:21<annadane>or indeed anything with "version" in /etc
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06:21<duclicsic>annadane: running 'ls /etc | grep version' wouldn't give "no such file or directory" if it was just that there wasn't a file with the string "version" in it
06:22<duclicsic>it implies a mangled command to me
06:22<annadane>yeah, that's right
06:22<supaman>yup, it would imply the /etc dir didn't exist
06:23<duclicsic>or more likely that there was a typo
06:23<annadane>alphazero, can you try again? "ls /etc | grep version", without the quotation marks
06:23<annadane>i know it might be a bit difficult on a french keyboard
06:23<annadane>with the | character
06:23<annadane>but maybe just copy paste what i wrote
06:23<alphazero>ok
06:23<supaman>copy paste is your friend here
06:24<duclicsic>the problem is that even if it's something like parrot/kali I'm fairly sure they retain the usual debian_version file of the distro they're based on
06:25<annadane>ls /etc | grep debian would narrow down if it's debian or not, though
06:25<supaman>yup, just checked in ubuntu, they have /etc/debian_version file
06:25<jm_>wannabe-mirror: for stretch virtualbox was available via backports, so maybe it will be available for buster via bpo someday too
06:26<annadane>oh, never mind. debian_version is my only entry
06:26<annadane>why is this so hard? lol.
06:26<duclicsic>I'd still put my money on this being parrot
06:26<supaman>perhaps a better way is to look in /etc/apt/sources.list
06:26<annadane>^^^^^^^
06:27<duclicsic>that's a good idea
06:27<annadane>then we need to tell them to paste it though without it being confusing, do we tell them paste.debian.net? i'm not sure if netcat would be installed on parrot/kali/whatever so you can't just termbin it
06:27<duclicsic>alphazero: please run "ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/"
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06:28<annadane>i should have left this to you :/ i should not be on IRC half asleep at 6 AM
06:30<annadane>i wish rob_debian was here to see me screw up, so he realizes i'm not nearly as smart as i sound
06:35<alphazero>duclicsic again no such file or directory
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06:36<duclicsic>alphazero: odd.. try "cat /etc/apt/sources.list"
06:37<duclicsic>alphazero: please be careful to copy/paste it exactly and remove the "" quotes
06:37<duclicsic>if it produces several lines of text, please show us just one of them
06:37<annadane>alphazero, also, don't paste the output from /etc/apt/sources.list here, the bot will kick you for spam
06:37<annadane>right
06:38<annadane>just one of them is fine
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06:41<alphazero>linux version 4.9.0-7-amd64 (debian 6.3.0-18+deb9ul) #1 SMP debian 4.9.110-1(2018-07-05)
06:42<annadane>so seems like debian 9 stretch...
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06:43<alphazero>it is after cat /proc/version
06:46<duclicsic>did you try what I asked?
06:46<alphazero>please what version of lunix do you advice me
06:47<supaman>Ubuntu or Mint
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06:49<annadane>alphazero, try this, without the " quotation marks: "cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999", again, just copy paste
06:50<annadane>if you do have nc installed and it gives you an output named "termbin", tell us the URL
06:50<alphazero>supaman: thank
06:51<duclicsic>annadane: if after 2 hours we've still not managed to determine what disto someone is running, I feel it's probably a losing battle.
06:53<alphazero>annadame: it says no such file or directory
06:54<annadane>okay, i don't know then.
06:54<annadane>i'm going to bed :P
06:54<supaman>not even a debian based distro
06:54<supaman>alphazero: sorry, we can't help you, you are not running a debian version of linux
06:55<supaman>alphazero: please install either Ubuntu or Mint and if you need any help with those they have their own support channels on IRC
06:55<duclicsic>I still think the problem is a failure to correctly produce the suggested command in a terminal
06:55<alphazero>i am not like administrator. it can be the cause of probleme?
06:55<duclicsic>but I don't know what more can be done to correct this given the apparent language barrier
06:56<blast007>had it been suggested to run 'lsb_release -a' yet?
06:56<supaman>duclicsic: yeah, could be. but if he is copy/paste-ing then that shold not be an issue
06:56<annadane>it had not
06:57<annadane>alphazero, can you try what blast007 suggested?
06:57<duclicsic>supaman: if you copy and paste it without removing the quotes, you do get "No such file or directory"
06:57<supaman>duclicsic: ahhh, I see
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06:57<annadane>right, *remove* the quotation marks
06:57<annadane>i keep saying that
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06:58<annadane>n'includez pas les " dans votre command
06:59<annadane>alphazero, lsb_release -a
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07:01<duclicsic>annadane: what happened to bed time? don't worry we'll probably still be at it when you wake up ;P
07:03<alphazero>after blasht007's suggestion: no LSB module are available. distributor ID: debian. description debian GNU/linux 9.5 (stretch) release: 9.5 codename: stretch
07:04<annadane>okay so the entire problem was including " in the copy pastes
07:04<annadane>so... that's a really old version of debian 9
07:04<annadane>and then after upgrading, alphazero eventually has to upgrade to debian 10
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07:05<annadane>it may or may not be easier to just fresh install debian 10, or use ubuntu/mint instead
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07:06<duclicsic>if it is indeed debian, it might be easier to direct further questions to #debian-fr given the difficulty in communication here.
07:06<annadane>the question alphazero has of course is "how do i set up wifi", so that can be answered... but yeah
07:08<annadane>alphazero, c'est peut etre plus facile pour toi d'allez au #debian-fr
07:08<annadane>dit a les personnes la votre question et aussi dit que vous est sur 9.5
07:09<duclicsic>I'd still be a bit sceptical tbh, I don't think there's a typical debian installer that will give you hexchat by default.
07:10<alphazero>annadame: okay je trouve que c'est plus facile. mais comment y aller?
07:10<annadane> /join #debian-fr
07:13<alphazero>how?
07:13<duclicsic>type that into this window
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07:17<alphazero>still not lol very sorry.... \
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07:18<alphazero> how to go to #debian-fr?
07:19<blast007>hexchat should have a menu item to join a channel
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07:22<alphazero>blash007: where please?
07:22<annadane>est ce que votre hexchat est en anglais our francais, pour moi an anglais c'est server -> join a channel
07:22<annadane>at the top
07:22<annadane>the menu options
07:22<annadane>ou francais*
07:23<alphazero>it is in english
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07:23<annadane>so, click the "server" button, and then "join a channel..."
07:24<alphazero>ok i see it. thank
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07:24<annadane>what #debian-fr will probably tell you to do is to at least upgrade to the latest version of debian 9, 9.5 is quite old
07:24<annadane>and then before june or so of next year you'll need to update to debian 10
07:25<alphazero>d'accord
07:29<annadane>alphazero, https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/index.fr.html https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/index.fr.html https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/index.fr.html
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10:28<mad-dog>hello how can i update the graphic drivers in debian 10
10:29<mad-dog>i have a intel card
10:32<blast007>mad-dog: are you having some trouble with graphics?
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10:36<mad-dog>blast007: yes i do
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10:43<blast007>mad-dog: would you please elaborate?
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10:52<mad-dog>blast007: i have some interfact like display errors when i get intro the TTY
10:52<mad-dog>blast007: and also when i switch users
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13:11<mendelmunkis>Is there any information available on removing GRUB from aDebian install?
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13:14<jhutchins_wk>.
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13:14<jhutchins_wk>mendelmunkis: Why?
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13:17<DusXMT>mendelmunkis: what would be the purpose of removing it?
13:17<mendelmunkis>I'm trying to decrease my boot time. removing 3.25 seconds from grub seems like a good place to start.
13:17<DusXMT>But, if you really want to, simply deleting the package, deleting the /boot/grub folder and deleting the grub and shim binaries from the EFI partition should do it
13:18<DusXMT>Keep in mind, you still need a bootloader to boot Debian
13:18<mendelmunkis>DusXMT: I want to keep it around for fallback recovery.
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13:19<DusXMT>mendelmunkis: Oh, so you just want to remive the timeout? That should be configurable in /etc/default/grub
13:19<mendelmunkis>I was under the impression that the kernel can be directly booted fro EFI
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13:27<mendelmunkis>https://wiki.debian.org/EFIStub
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13:49<doobz_>Hi. I have encountered bug present since Jessie that now causes immediate issues on DEs that like to be pretty and always a failure to play 360 degree videos. After a couple of days searching I believe it to be caused by incorrect links in the libGL.so related libraries. This only seems apparent on N40 / G73 (geforce7600GO), as I recently installed Buster to a 8200GO based laptop and it was fine. If anyone can be of help, I'd be
13:49<doobz_>very grateful.
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14:09<jhutchins_wk>doobz_: The prettiness of a DE is subjectively individual, so we don't know what DEs you might be having trouble with. What player are you trying to play what videos with?
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14:13<doobz_>The 360 degree videos I have tried are through the browser on youtube.
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14:14<doobz_>And the prettyness I refer to must be some specific graphical functions.
14:15<dboles>what browser? and you still need to identify the DEs and whether x11 or Wayland were used, not just gesture vaguely at "graphical functions"
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14:18<doobz_>Firefox, and I don't know specifically what graphical functions, just that some pretty desktop compositing features must call them.
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14:19<blast007>DE = desktop environment, such as Gnome.. KDE.. etc
14:22<doobz_>DEs I've tried. KDE Plasma (makes it look like the gpu is damaged), Gnome (hung pretty quickly), LXQT better but 360 deg vids are garbled
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14:24<doobz_>Currently on Jessie using LXDE. And 360 videos are garbled.
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14:36<doobz_>The only interesting error messages I've seen were after installing the proprietary 304xx nvidia dkms driver (on stretch) and trying to run glmark2. On the nouveua driver it would just crash at test 3 with segmentation fault. No core dumped. If you want to see the errors I have a thread on linuxmint forums https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=303078
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14:39<jalopez_tripwire>Hello, good morning, I work for a security focused company and part of my work is to check our DKMS modules are well supported in Debian, recently I've started having issues installing linux-headers-$(uname -r) packages in Debian 8/9, it seems as the kernel gets updates new linux-headers (linux-image) packages are generated and the previous ones are removed from the repositories, I can workaround this issue by using the snapshots repositories
14:39<jalopez_tripwire>however I wonder if there is a formal document within the Debian org that states clearly how these updates are managed, maybe I should ask in debian-kernel too?
14:39<sney>doobz_: just to rule out the obvious, here - have you duplicated this issue on more than one individual 7600Go gpu? the combination of age and being a mobile gpu leads me to suspect a hardware problem.
14:40<doobz_>No, but I have (I'm sorry to say) a windows 7 install that functions as it should.
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14:41<sney>jalopez_tripwire: it's my understanding that packages should not be removed from stable, so it might be worthwhile to file a bug. As for a document, it's probably in policy somewhere: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
14:43<jalopez_tripwire>sney: thank you, would check both
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14:46<doobz_>I vaguely remember a point where I could watch 360 degrees vids on the hardware. Think I was running wheezy at the time. I remember it breaking but didn't really give it much thought as don't watch 360 degree vids or needing 3d.
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14:47<sney>unfortunately problems with the binary blob driver are kind of a dead end because of the closed source nature. there's probably some way to contact nvidia and report bugs to them, but they notoriously don't make linux a priority
14:48<doobz_>It doesn't work with nouveau either. I am talking right-out-of-the-box behaviour.
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14:53<jhutchins_wk>doobz_: It could also make a different what videos you're trying to watch.
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14:59<doobz_>All 360 degree vids I've tried in the browser are garbled. If I install the 304xx proprietary driver, what's displayed changes from garbled to multiple video patchwork (an improvement), but it still does not work.
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15:29<jhutchins_wk>doobz_: Could be a hardware problem.
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15:29<somiaj>or maybe an issue with webgl?
15:30<jhutchins_wk>somiaj: He reports artifacts in somme DE effects as well.
15:32<somiaj>yea, maybe bad hardware, check dmesg, the xorg log, and maybe stuff like 'glxinfo' and 'xvinfo' for various errors.
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15:46<doobz_>I might have made it sound like a h/w issue, but swear it's not.
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15:47<somiaj>are ya sure? If you are seeing artificats and you have tried both the free nouveau driver and the non-free nvidia driver, I don't now what the issue could be.
15:47<somiaj>Maybe it is just a card that isn't fully supported by the drivers in linux.
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15:49<doobz_>Like I said, I have functioning windows system on same hardware, and this hardware config used to work.
15:49<doobz_>on nouveau
15:50<somiaj>well then go thought the logs I have poined you at and look for things that could help
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15:55<doobz_>The only errors messages I've seen hint at incorrect libGL.so synlinking. With the proprietary driver installed, glmark2 fails on execution with :libGL error: No matching fbConfigs or visuals found
15:55<doobz_>libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
15:55<doobz_>** GLX does not support GLX_EXT_swap_control or GLX_MESA_swap_control!
15:55<doobz_>X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
15:55<doobz_>Major opcode of failed request: 155 (GLX)
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15:59<somiaj>How did you install the nvidia non-free driver?
16:00<DavidWeeb>Is not a big problem
16:00<somiaj>DavidWeeb: that wasn't for you, do you have a question about debian?
16:01<DavidWeeb>sorry :)
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16:08<doobz_>I used the dkms package through the package manager. This was on stretch as 304xx no longer in repositories.
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16:12<doobz_>To be honest, this was actually on a LMDE3 install, so not exactly stretch, but behaved exactly the same as my previous stretch install which I had updated to from wheezy. Wanted to eliminate this updates system before jumping to any conclusions.
16:13<doobz_>After an apt update on LMDE3, I did receive this message - ldconfig: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1 is not a symbolic link
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16:14<sney>we can't know what weird stuff Mint is doing with libGL if any
16:15<sney>this is why derivatives aren't supported in #debian.
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16:16<doobz_>I think the debian edition should be the same. I can install a fresh version of stretch, and I'll wager it behaves the same.
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16:20<somiaj>doobz_: so you installed the stretch 304xx in buster? That is probably your issue.
16:20<somiaj>so you are installing stretch binaries on linux mint, that could probably be your problem. Please use the drivers provied by your distro and we do not support mint here.
16:21<somiaj>Yea, reinstall stretch, and use only offical debian packages, this should work unless it is hardware issues.
16:21<doobz_>No. It is broken out of the box with the nouveau driver on at least the last three releases. I have not yet managed to find any searchable error messages when using the nouveau driver.
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16:24<doobz_>I've used nothing but vanilla debian for years. I only installed LMDE3 to see if there was any difference. I shall blitz it with a fresh debian 9 install - the last where I can install a dkms package and try to get some error messages. Preferably using the nouveau driver.
16:25<doobz_>jessie>buster all fail to render 360 videos in Firefox using the nouveau driver, and any desktop environment that by default has compositing enabled is likely to produce issues.
16:25<somiaj>The times I have had strange artifacts with nvidia, it was always bad hardware, even after months and months of using different drivers and thinking it was due to running sid, ended up being bad memeory on the gpu, and the manafucture replaced it for me.
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16:29<doobz_>The only thing my laptop has been unable to do in the 10+ years of having it is play GTA5.
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16:39<jhutchins_wk>at 10+ years, it could definitely be hardware - and could definitely be hidden by Windows.
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17:02<doobz_>Thanks peeps.
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17:26<rob_debian>Hill all! Please, I would like to know if there are Debian Developers who develop drivers and firmware for Enterprise Servers, as this cannot be officially assumed by the Debian Project due to its Development Philosophy and Policy.
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17:28<rob_debian>Is it common for experienced Debian developers to do this work autonomously with the Debian Project so that they can support companies with large modern servers that want to adopt Debian as their System for these Servers?
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17:33<rob_debian>Sorry if it's considered too off topic question here, I need this information to convince a customer to migrate to Debian, instead of to Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
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17:46<rockfeller>Hi there!
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20:56<xenosys>Hello, I'm new to using IRC for this sort of thing so apologies if this is the wrong place. I am having trouble with wifi on buster 10.1
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20:57<xenosys>Is there anyone who would be available to help me out?
20:58<sarnold>welcome to irc xenosys :) usually things work better if you just plow into the problem :) pastebin errors, etc
20:58<sarnold>this may help http://rurounijones.github.io/blog/2009/03/17/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
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22:06<rob_debian_>Hi all, please I've forgotten which command I do use to increase volume in Debian through command line. Hope anyone can help me on this. Thank you !
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22:12<backupluis>Hi, is there any way to avoid the "Always on top window" get the focus after close a dialog from other window? Is anoying working with the keyboard, when I close some dialog the focos goes to AoTW and not to the dialog parent window?
22:12<sney>most window managers/desktop environments have an option for focus to always follow the mouse pointer
22:12<sney>sometimes called "sloppy focus"
22:16<backupluis>Yes, if I work with the mouse the problem is not perceptible but with keyboard is the problem, I have to get the mouse all the time to focus the working window or start pressing alt-tab, is anoying for writers or programmers.
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22:19<sarnold>rob_debian_: amixer and alsamixer come to mind
22:20<rob_debian_>Fine sarnold, nice to meet you here ! That's 'alsamixer' I used in the past but I've forgotten; now, I have two options, thank you very much !
22:20<sarnold>rob_debian_: one is nicer for scripting (eg keyboard shortcuts for your window manager) and the other is nicer to use interactively :)
22:24<rob_debian_>I see sarnold; in the case of use interactively, that's 'alsamixer', right ?
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22:29<backupluis>I found something with your "sloppy focus" set in tweak tool to focus with mouse hovering, and works leaving the mouse over the "Working window", anyway I think the always on top window should not get the focus when it lost. Thanks
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22:33<rob_debian_>started reading about 'amixer' here in its man page. Thank you for attention and Great Support, sarnold !:)
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 08 00:00:02 2019