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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-10-08

---Logopened Tue Oct 08 00:00:02 2019
---Daychanged Tue Oct 08 2019
00:00-!-cpaelzer [~paelzer@188-155-117-131.ip-addr.inexio.net] has joined #debian
00:00-!-cpaelzer is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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00:00-!-_cr_ is "Carsten Rosenberg" on @#clamav #debian
00:00-!-cpaelzer is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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00:03-!-thelastjedi is "thelastjedi,,," on #debian
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00:04-!-dboehmer is "Daniel Böhmer,,," on #debian
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00:04-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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00:14-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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00:22-!-m_g_lewis is "Melvin T. Glenn Lewis" on #debian
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00:29-!-schizo is "me without a mic is like a beat without a snare" on #oftc #moocows #debian
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00:33-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:45-!-handsome_feng is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian-zh #debian-ubuntu #debian
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01:09-!-the-dude is "Martijn van B" on #debian
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01:18-!-mrrobot is "realname" on #debian
01:19<mrrobot>hello
01:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 594] by debhelper
01:19<mrrobot>debhelper how r u
01:20<annadane>debhelper's a bot
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01:33-!-ttelford is "Troy Telford" on #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian
01:35-!-handsome_feng[m] [~feng@218.76.23.26] has joined #debian
01:35-!-handsome_feng[m] is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-zh
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01:40-!-Uzzi is "realname" on #debian
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01:40-!-phdeswer is "Philippe De Swert" on #debian #emdebian
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01:42-!-handsome_feng is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian-zh #debian-ubuntu #debian
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01:45-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian.or.at #debian-next #debian
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02:48-!-olivierb is "Olivier Bitsch" on #debian
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02:56-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on #debian-ve #debian-es #debian
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02:58-!-handsome_feng[m] is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-zh
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03:29-!-handsome_feng is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian-zh #debian-ubuntu #debian
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03:37-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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03:56-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian
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04:36-!-twb is "Trent W. Buck" on #debian #debian-au
04:37<twb>are oldstable questions on-topic here, or is there a dedicated channel?
04:37<jm_>most people just ask here
04:38<twb>Okey dokey. I'm trying to work out why I can't install linux-headers-amd64/stretch-backports due to this:
04:38<twb> linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.6-amd64 : Depends: linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.6-common (= 4.19.67-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1) which is a virtual package and is not provided by any available package
04:38<twb>AFAICT that package is in rmadison, and my sources.list.d has deb.debian.org repos enabled, so it ought to be there
04:42<jm_>I think someone already asked about this, that package is not in Packages file for stretch so maybe if you download it manually and install it it will work
04:42<twb>note it was in stretch-backports not stretch
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04:43-!-uri is "uri" on #debian @#gitlab
04:44<jm_>ok it still applies, it's not in Packages file for stretch-backports
04:44<twb>So at least the problem is upstream of me
04:44<jm_>yeah
04:44<twb>Any idea what happened and if it'll magically fix itself?
04:45<twb>I have no problem with "go home, it'll be fixed by tomorrow"
04:45-!-combro2k [~combro2k@mail.vmaurik.nl] has joined #debian
04:45-!-combro2k is "combro2k" on @#mma #debian
04:45<jm_>let me see if I can find out when I checked it last time
04:46<jm_>ok it was older version of the package, linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 back in august, so it appears that something's wrong with the process of uploading this stuff to bpo
04:48<twb>harrumph
04:48<twb>That also implies it's unlikely to magically fix itself overnight
04:48<jm_>indeed
04:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 612] by debhelper
04:49<twb>I'll try doing a bare-minimum port of this code to buster
04:49<jm_>I checked BTS back then but found nothing relevant
04:50<twb>The end goal is a Debian Live image that can talk to TBS6502 and TBS6802 television tuner cards. I netboot them on a diskless server that takes digital TV from the coax antennas, and shoves it out over ethernet as IPTV RTP streams
04:50<twb>But the TBS drivers aren't in mainline so <hoop jumping>, and the crap script for that broke this month
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05:44-!-handsome_feng[m] is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-zh
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05:45<linux77>hello great guys!
05:46-!-handsome_feng[m] [~feng@218.76.23.26] has joined #debian
05:46-!-handsome_feng[m] is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-zh
05:46<linux77>here i have time to say good morning!
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07:16<chris1>Hello, where is the right place to ask something about mdadm RAID problems?
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07:25<krauserii>when I try to enter my password(as sudo) in mariadb it lets me in even without using one. I don't want that or else anyone just puts sudo before the commands and can enter. I run mysql_secure_installation and set up a root password but I don't know why it's not working like I want
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07:30<jm_>what does "enter my password(as sudo)" mean?
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07:33<grawity>probably just `sudo mysql`
07:34<grawity>mariadb now has a default root account that's authenticated based on unix-uid, doesn't it?
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07:35<krauserii>basically going with "sudo mysql -u root -p" asks me for password but it lets me in without providing one
07:37<krauserii>"sudo mysql" only is working as intended but it asks for my user password and not the mysql root one
07:37<grawity>afaik you just need to remove the passwordless user account from the mysql.user table
07:37<krauserii>I'll try that
07:37<bremner>krauserii: people who have sudo access can probably already add themselves to the database (or remove it completely)
07:37<grawity>(after making sure it already has a root account with all privileges *with* a password)
07:38<grawity>they can but it's not something that can *easily* be done without taking down a running mysqld, at least
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07:39<grawity>I don't mind uid-based auth (already had the same in OpenLDAP and postgres), but it does feel like an unnecessary, uh, merging of duties?
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07:46<annadane>chris1, uh, here? go ahead and just ask
07:46<annadane>though i guess you posted in freenode under a different name
07:46<krauserii>fixed the issue
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07:47<krauserii>grawity: you were right
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07:52<chris1>@annadane yes, i installed my weechat here
07:52<krauserii>https://paste.debian.net/plain/1105350 plugin was set to unix_socket which lets you get in without password
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08:16<linux77>heya guys!
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09:35<_DeLa_>On Debia buster LXDE, I would love to assign a short terminal command (executed in the terminal of course) to a keyboard shortcut. What is the best way to accomplish this?
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09:44*tarzeau wonders which command that is...
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10:03<linux77>i suspect i found some intrusions on my fresh Buster install.
10:03<linux77>maybe some defaults are not securrity.
10:04<tarzeau>linux77: tell us more?
10:05<_DeLa_>tarzeau: xinput disable touchpad ;-)
10:06<linux77>i don't known if i can tell to us theentire bad experiences i am found, i am studding much alone with god company to make the calm.
10:06<tarzeau>Delta-One: can fully understand that. and you want to keep disabling/enabling it? or just disbale it with .xsessionrc?
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10:07<linux77>i never forget my responsability as an human good person.
10:08<tarzeau>are you using google translate?
10:08<_DeLa_>tarzeau: I managed to disable and enable it via terminal. That should do it, right?
10:09<tarzeau>yep
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10:11<_DeLa_>tarzeau: Basically, I want to disable touchpad by default (that I can manage), but I want a fallback option (to enable it) in case my wireless mouse runs out of batteries
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10:14<linux77>maybe various ISPs around the world have the same settings of mine
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10:17<linux77>i don't have a way to financiate my studdy here when i live
10:17<linux77>or anyone can talk about my life studdy
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10:21<tarzeau>linux77: which software did you install?
10:21<tarzeau>Delta-One: you can just put the command in .xsessionrc and it's run when you login in x or run startx
10:22<tarzeau>for the fallback no idea, depends on the windowmanager for keyboard input handling shortcuts of yours
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10:23<yessine>hello
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10:25<duclicsic>linux77: Brasil?
10:25<duclicsic>!pt
10:25<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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10:29<_DeLa_>tarzeau: for the fallbkac maybe "autokey" ( https://packages.debian.org/buster/autokey-common )
10:29<_DeLa_>?
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10:30<tarzeau>try? never heard of that
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10:31<_DeLa_>tarzeau: This is Delta-One, over and out! ;-P
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11:39<user99>so many reboots for updates...did I actually install Windows?
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11:58<Gue______>hey all, installing new os (new to debian). what is the mount point for swap partition?
11:59<avu>Gue______: there is none
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11:59<Gue______>how to enable swap for a partition that I set up for swap file?
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12:01<avu>Gue______: you can add an fstab entry just like for a swap partition, although I think using swap partitions is generally preferred over using swap files
12:02<Gue______>sorry ignore the word "File" in my last message
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12:03<Gue______>i got it... thanks
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12:05<Gue______>how large should /boot partition be?
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12:08<jelly>Gue______: 500MB is fine
12:08<jelly>(enough for a dozen kernels)
12:10<jelly>Gue______: Re: swap, you can in fact tell the guided partitioning part in the installer to use a partition for swap.
12:10<jhutchins_wk>Gue______: Actually, for a raw new-user installation, one partition + swap is the best strategy. Chopping it up is a very obsolete practice that pretty much guarantees that the space you need will be on the wrong partition.
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12:12<Gue______>since i am using encrypted partitions it is saying i need a separate /boot partition. but the installer didn't set aside any partition for Boot as I requested it when i first ran it (it only set aside space for swap, root, and home)
12:13<jelly>Gue______: I don't know whether Debian 10 installer still leads you to have separate /, /home, /var, /boot, etc. You can heed jhutchins_wk's advice instead. If you have a good reason to slice space and use multiple mountpoints, use lvm
12:13<Gue______>then I have like 1 MB and another 466.4 kb of "FREE SPACE" partitions and a 1 MB "biosgrub" partition... I thought this was the boot?
12:13<jelly>and if you want encryption, separate /boot + 1 partition for luks (encryption) and lvm on top of that is the sanest option
12:14<jelly>Gue______: it's not. Does this system boot in legacy or UEFI mode?
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12:14<Gue______>i'm assuming uefi it's an xpc shuttle system
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12:17<Gue______>i'm also using RAID1 to make things more complicated
12:19<Gue______>so each partition is replicated (i have 2 8GB swap partitions etc..)
12:19<Gue______>so i set up both 8GB partitions as swap
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12:32<Gue______>the installer didn't provide enough room in an unencrypted partition to create a boot partition. 1MB not enough. need to start over?
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12:33<jhutchins_wk>Gue______: Actually, for a raw new-user installation, one partition + swap is the best strategy. Chopping it up is a very obsolete practice that pretty much guarantees that the space you need will be on the wrong partition.
12:35<Gue______>but then i wouldn't be able to use encryption then correct? because I would need to have a separate /boot unencrypted partition. so it would need to be 3 partitions total?
12:35<jhutchins_wk>Gue______: You can just let it do automatic partitioning, or you can do it manually. Sometimes it's easier to do the partitioning outside the installer and just choose which partition is mounted where at install time.
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12:47<Gue______>thanks
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13:05<jhutchins_wk>Gue______: There are ways to encrypt that grub can handle, those allow you to have /boot on an encrypted partiton. Unfortunately that's everything I know bout it.
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13:05<GyrosGeier>Gue______, with EFI, you can use an unencrypted EFI System Partition and the rest of the system on encrypted LVM
13:05<GyrosGeier>guided partition should know how to do that
13:06<GyrosGeier>in theory that should also work with systemd-boot
13:06<GyrosGeier>in practice bootctl fails to install from within a chroot, because apparently installing systems is not a sensible use case
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13:07<GyrosGeier>so I recommend installing using grub-efi first and replacing that with systemd-boot if you need secureboot
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13:10<ach>!playonlinux
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13:13<jelly>Gue______: avoid putting EFI partition on md raid1, replicate that some other way, as there have been reports of serious damage with that kind of setup
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13:16<GyrosGeier>that too
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13:33<ach>.
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13:55<Gue______>if one of the drives does fail in raid 1, then can the dead drive be removed and a new one replaced... or would you have to repartition the new drive?
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13:56<Gue______>and how would you know if one of the drives failed, does linux tell you?
13:57<jelly>that depends on the raid implementation, mdadm service by default sends a mail if a member fails
13:57<blast007>Gue______: this would be a good read: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/RAID (it is the arch linux wiki, but much of their info is relevant to linux in general)
13:57<jelly>and yes you also need to partition the new device in the exact same way
13:58<blast007>one tip to ease the replacing of a disk is to leave some unallocated space (they suggest 100MB) at the end of the disk to allow for slight capacity differences between manufacturers/models
13:58<jelly>conservative practice for md raid1 with two members is to make raid1 arrays for each partition separately
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14:02<jelly>so on an EFI system I guess you'd have 4 (GPT) partitions: EFI (/boot/efi), that 1MiB thing for grub if it's really needed, a separate /boot (that will have its own separate md raid1) and finally the fourth partition for everything else, md raid1 member. LUKS would be put on top of that fourth partition, then lvm PV inside, then lvm LVs for / fs and swap (and others)
14:04<jelly>blast007: or just not allocate more than base-10 declared size (if the vendor says disk is 480GB, avoid partitioning past the 480,000,000,000 B mark)
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14:11<_DeLa_>Right now, my /etc/X11/Xsession.d/20flatpak - file looks like this: https://pastebin.com/sHX9pMA4
14:11<_DeLa_>How must I edit this code in order to include the directories
14:11<_DeLa_>'/var/lib/flatpak/exports/share'
14:11<_DeLa_>'/home/myfolder/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share'
14:11<_DeLa_>in the search path set by the XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable???
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14:20<_DeLa_>6 lines of text – and I get kicked for flooding....
14:21<_DeLa_>But it's still allowed to ask questions, right?!?!?
14:21<bremner>sure. Just don't use <enter> as punctuation
14:22<thsnr>_DeLa_: yeah, you are allowed. the issue was that all five lines were sent (received?) in rapid succession
14:22<_DeLa_>thsnr: ok. so they were still sent to the channel, correct? Any answers yet?
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14:23<thsnr>five lines were received, no responses yet
14:23<_DeLa_>bremner: will do
14:24<_DeLa_>thsnr: was it only five? it should end with "search path set by the XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable". Did it?
14:24<thsnr>exactly
14:25<_DeLa_>ok. so hopefully someone can help me out here...
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14:38<nezZario>So, just outta curiosity
14:39<nezZario>Why does e.g. schroot exist, or -- the flipside -- why does something like docker exist?
14:39<nezZario>Seems like docker is just a big expensive over-engineered thing ... as schroot seems to be able to do just about everything it can ?
14:40<sarnold>schroot doesn't do any pid isolation; so package post inst scripts need to be careful before trying to start daemons, send signals to init, etc
14:40<nezZario>Just curious if anyone is familiar ... I know schroot is also highly debian specific while docker isn't and there is more to it than that
14:41<nezZario>well yeah i'm not using it to build packages (schroot) .. not using it for anything really I was just poking around at the different ways to isolate
14:42<nezZario>sarnold: is there something inherently complex about that? I assume it would just be another namespace thing right?
14:42<nezZario>i.e. fairly easy to add
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14:44<sarnold>yes, it wouldn't be hard to add eg pid isolation to schroot if you wanted it, but then someone else woudl want networking isolation, someone else would want uid mapping, etc etc, until you've rebuilt docker or containerd or podman or systemd-nspawnd or lxd or ... :)
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14:49<thsnr>exactly, and not only namespaces for isolation but also cgroups for resource limits
14:50<thsnr>docker delegates all of that to runc nowadays. containerd does the image downloading, unpacking and management. and i guess docker is left with building images from Dockerfiles etc?
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14:52<thsnr>there are so many different layers nowadays that i am not sure what handles what so don't quote me :)
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14:56<nezZario>right ... wait so docker actually uses systemd's weird stuff now?
14:57<Gu_______>It looks like the computer I am using to install debain uses EFI as I get error message about installing the GRUB boot loader to a fallback location the "removable media path" ... does this mean that I will need to burn a cd or have a usb stick in the computer each time I boot it?
14:58<sarnold>Gu_______: what exactly is the message? I've got a machine booting efi and certainly don't need a usb stick every time :)
14:58<nezZario>I am just trying to figure out the easiest way to do what I need: I am basically just trying to launch various processes, the processes see / as / but with it read-only, ... and then with some other particular directories (like 2-3) mounted yet-again over that with rw ... most of which are NFS
14:58<Gu_______>the message is 3 paragraphs long
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14:59<nezZario>I don't need pid isolation ... I was just curious ... schroot seems to be pretty close to what I need perhaps
14:59<Gu_______>basically says "some efi firmware implementations do not meet efi specification... a workaround is to install extra copy of efi version of GRUB to fallback location..."
14:59<sarnold>Gu_______: you can paste it into http://paste.debian.net/
15:00<Gu_______>someone said earlier that RAID1 and efi can cause problems
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15:02<jmcnaught>pezhed: the installer has asked about a fall back for every UEFI install I've done, I've never needed it.
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15:05<pezhed>it won't even let me install GRUB now.. on both hard drives sdb and sda I am getting "executing grub-install /dev/sdx failed. This is a fatal error
15:07<pezhed>i have 2 3TB drives ext4 file system and RAID1 set up
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15:31<pezhed>error messages for grub-install error: http://paste.debian.net/1105418/
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15:48<lids>grub-install --modules=raid --no-floppy /dev/sda
15:50<lids>pezhed: how many partitions did you create?
15:50<pezhed>lids: I used guided partitioning. I chose "single partition" so.. however many default partitions the installer created
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15:52<lids>legacy mode on bios EFI eh?
15:53<pezhed>yes it looks like the computer uses EFI
15:54<lids>then you must create ESP fat
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15:56<pezhed>manual partitions then?
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15:57<lids>probably.. or change to the legacy mode
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16:02<pezhed>fat16 or fat32?
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16:09<lids>I suggest to turn to legacy mode if you 're not so experienced on manual partition. Then guided is easy to build things correctly!
16:11<lids>FAT32
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16:18<jelly>pezhed: I said putting EFI ("ESP") partition on md raid can cause problems, just don't do that. Doing it for Linux partitions ought to be fine.
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16:23<pezhed>what should the mount point be for the fat32/esp? /boot?
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16:26<jelly>pezhed: /boot/efi
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16:34<ttaat>i'm getting "low disk space on boot" error
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16:37<ttaat>cannot copy extracted data for './boot/System.map-4.19.0-6-rt-amd64' to '/boot/System.map-4.19.0-6-rt-amd64.dpkg-new': failed to write (No space left on device)
16:38<ttaat>should i remove old kernels?
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16:44<jelly>ttaat: that, or extend your /boot if possible
16:45<ttaat>mmm
16:45*jelly puts /boot on a whole separate disk these days, virtualization makes some things much easier
16:46<ttaat>i can't purge any kernel
16:47<jelly>use dpkg --remove or dpkg --purge packagename, not apt, until you have enough space to fix apt state
16:47<jelly>dpkg -S /boot/vmlinuz*
16:47<dpkg>Package: /boot/vmlinuz*: Status: install ok installed
16:47<jelly>dpkg: shush
16:47<dpkg>Fine, I'll shut up.
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16:57<ttaat>i've purged some
16:57<ttaat>but now i believe i'm getting another problem
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17:01<ttaat>i'm always missing kernel headers for some reason
17:05<ttaat>pigz: abort: write error on <stdout> (No space left on device)
17:06<ttaat>dpkg: error processing package linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 (--configure):
17:06<ttaat> installed linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 1
17:06<dpkg>ttaat: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
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17:08<nezZario>So hm
17:10<nezZario>Is there any kind of open source layering filesystem tool? For example, if I have directories /a and /b, with /a/{1,2,3,4} inside and /b/{4,5,6,7} as files .. i could make a /c/{1,2,3,4,5,6,7} that was the result of taking a blank list, layering "a/" on, then layering "b/" on, so that "4" which both had was "b/"'s
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17:11<nezZario>Or I mean, really any sort of it. There is bindfs which does 99% of what I want, but this would be a heck of a lot easier if I could squash two together
17:11<nezZario>Basically am trying to make special 'virtual' directories and then run a process, chroot'ing it to that dir
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17:15<ttaat>what's the right command to purge with dpkg?
17:16<nezZario>ttaat: Man page is pretty clear, there is purge and deinstall, which are fairly different
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17:17<nezZario>purge will delete everything that it installed, even if you modified it (so, say you installed postfix and had a huge postfix conf, that wasn't backed up, and you PURGE it.. that conf is gone)
17:17<nezZario>deinstall removes everything but conf ... neither will remove stuff the application created after installation
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17:18<ttaat>so how do i properly remove a kernel to free space on boot?
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17:18<nezZario>well, ... did you install it with dpkg?
17:18<nezZario>probably should just use apt if you got apt.
17:19<ttaat>apt is not working because it return me the same no space left error
17:19<nezZario>hm? i'm pretty sure you can still remove stuff
17:19<nezZario>but deinstall
17:20<nezZario>i would definitely go with deinstall.
17:20<mendelmunkis>Perhaps var is full.
17:21<mendelmunkis>which may give apt an issue modifying its cache.
17:22<nezZario>huh, I'm suprised there is no --force or anything for apt
17:22<thsnr>nezZario: check out overlayfs
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17:23<nezZario>thsnr: yeah, I found it, almost as if I could've just typed it directly into google :)
17:23<nezZario>thsnr: sorry about that =)
17:24<somiaj>nezZario: in general you shouldn't need to force things, and if you are at a point you have to do that, use dpkg, as you probably need to manually do everything at that point and not let apt's logic do the work for you.
17:24<somiaj>so maybe just use dpkg to pruge the kernel
17:24<nezZario>btw, what happened to the kfreebsd project?
17:25<nezZario>I mean, I know it's discontinued .. But, was it any particular technical challenge that killed it, lack of interest .. ?
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17:27<mendelmunkis>ttaat: it may be worth checking if /tmp is a ramfs. if not you can probably free some space by emptying it.
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17:29<ttaat>i went into the boot folder and deleted an old kernel with right click > delete
17:29<ttaat>this worked
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17:30<somiaj>You may have to do some extra work to actually remove the package now though, you don't want the package installed but just manually delete its files
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17:35<pezhed>on the partition disks window in the installer, what does each column represent? I'm trying to determine which partition # is my ESP. There is a column that has "#1 #3 #4 etc" but they don't seem to be in order (there is no #2) is this the partition # for the drive?
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17:39<pezhed>so I created a 500MB FAT32 partition for ESP and told grub-install to use that partition for the bootloader but it is still giving me "fatal error" as before.
17:40<pezhed>there is no "legacy" install option that I see in the installer
17:42<jmcnaught>If the installer is booted in legacy/BIOS mode then it installs grub-pc (for BIOS booting, installed to an MBR) and if it boots in UEFI then it installs grub-efi-amd64. It's not a choice in the installer.
17:42<jmcnaught>Have you tried guided partitioning?
17:42<pezhed>yep i've gone through the rounds several times so far
17:43<somiaj>are you sure you are botted in EFI mode vs legacy mode
17:44<somiaj>you could also just use fdisk and look at the partition table to see what is there
17:46<dvs>Really? I didn't know I can look at the boot partition using fdisk.
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17:48<pezhed>i'm in bios and there is no option for legacy. this is AMIBIOS 1.05 build date 12/13/11
17:50<somiaj>dvs: for GPT partition tables it will show the ESP partition (which is what they were looking for). For legacy, it won't show the mbr (as that is part of the MBR partition table)
17:50<somiaj>so depends on if using GPT or MBR partition table, but if no ESP partition is shown, means EFI isn't being used.
17:51<dvs>Disklabel type: gpt
17:53<somiaj>yea, that is what I get, it then shows that /dev/sda1 is the EFI System partition
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18:17<Ieyeide3>Hi
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18:19<pezhed>if i want to install just a simple server that will only be used to transfer files using rsync and ssh, and scheduling cron jobs, what is the best (most lightweight and secure) linux distro for that?
18:20<blast007>pezhed: you're in #debian so you're going to get a biased answer
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18:21<curbURenthusiasm>i chose debian because that was my initial opinion (but i'm not a very advanced admin)
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18:22<sney>debian would be appropriate for that usage
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18:25<Ieyeide3>how to install debian on tablet? if at all possible.
18:25<sney>depends on the tablet
18:26<sney>but, most tablets are designed to only ever have one OS, so in most cases it would be very difficult to impossible
18:27<Ieyeide3>can you suggest some specific model of tablet or processor?
18:28<sney>this is just a guess, but I think your best bet would be an x86-powered windows tablet, since those are relatively closely related to regular pc laptops
18:28<sney>but it's not something I've done personally
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18:29<sarnold>(though I think I've heard baytrail-cpu based tablets have a funky uefi setup that makes it impossible or difficult to boot a linux on them)
18:29<sney>that's not surprising.
18:29<Ieyeide3>i know it will be difficult but i have seen attempts to install ubuntu on the tablet
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18:31<sney>it would be the same procedure (more or less) to install debian on a tablet that can run ubuntu, so maybe you should find out which tablet that was
18:32<sarnold>leosilva: perhaps there's something useful here? these guys have tried to keep ubuntu touch going https://ubports.com/devices/promoted-devices
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18:32<sarnold>leosilva: not you sorry, you can go back to your pacoquita :) sorry
18:33<sney>Ieyeide3: do not private message people without asking. keep all questions in the channel
18:35<Ieyeide3>sorry. I'm not an experienced irc user
18:35<shipp>pezhed: you could also try gentoo
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18:36<shipp>why would you want Linux on a tablet, would there even be a good touch-screen only DE/WM out there?
18:37<jelly>I'd want a trusted OS on any device.
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18:39<shipp>What good is a trusted OS if it's barely useable
18:39<sney>linux has had touchscreen interfaces available for a long time. I'm not sure what the options are nowadays but the work has been done
18:39<Ieyeide3>i need kali tools and my phone screen is too small
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18:40<shipp>does gnome3 has good touchscreen support
18:40<shipp>I'd imagine that, or KDE, would be the best option
18:41<jelly>Ieyeide3: a laptop with a touchscreen will be a better option if you need a touchscreen and Linux
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18:43<shipp>there's the gemini PDA which basically an android phone with a full blown keyboard lol. Looks kind of cool, am considering one. It supports Kali Nethunter
18:43<jelly>pick the hardware carefully and confirm in advance all the bits you need work with linux, before buying
18:43<karenmcd>Hello room. At some point I had added bullseye to my sources, and yesterday I deleted bullseye from it because I didn't know why I had it there, and don't want it. When I did a apt update/upgrade it upgraded a bunch of stuff and then it suggested apt autoremove... you can guess what happened next. I have no network manager, tons of libs are removed, office etc.. - is there anyway to fix my system without reinstalling?
18:43<sney>gnome 3 has built in support for touch gestures, and kde has a dedicated plasma mobile thing, apparently.
18:43<shipp>karenmcd: do you have a debian usb installer still? You can boot into that and go into rescue mode.
18:44<sarnold>karenmcd: maybe you'll have some of the old package files still in /var/cache/apt/archives and can reinstall some of them by hand
18:44<sney>downgrades aren't supported, though, so your best bet may be to reinstall or just use bullseye
18:44<Ieyeide3>Kali Nethunter installing only on phone
18:45<shipp>if you boot into rescue mode, restoring your apt sources list and the doing "apt-get install full-upgrade" might fix it.
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18:45<sney>that *might* work, but any remaining packages/metapackages with higher versions will not be "upgraded" by the lower version number
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18:46<sney>but, there's probably an aptitude recipe to remove anything that came from bullseye
18:46<shipp>yes that would be "apt install full-upgrade"
18:47<shipp>sorry I mean "apt full-grade"
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18:47<shipp>*"apt full-upgrade"
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18:47<jelly>that won't downgrade anything, shipp
18:48<Ieyeide3>OK. I will look for gnome 3 resources that support the touchscreen
18:48<karenmcd>shipp Yes I have the usb installer .. I don't know what to do if it get into it.
18:49<karenmcd>sarnold: the archive files are there, but will only install bullseye... i'm guessing i would have to re-enable bullseye repo in sources?
18:49<shipp>karenmcd: boot into it, there will be an option for "rescue system", then it will look as if youre going to install the system, but it will let you chroot into your existing system with networking support so you can fix it.
18:49<jelly>karenmcd: do an apt update first. Then look at which packages are installed but not available any more. If there are many it will be easier to reinstall, or upgrade to bullseye completely if you can live with an installation of "testing".
18:49<jelly>!not available
18:49<dpkg>To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
18:50<jelly>if there's only a couple, and they're not too important, a downgrade might be an option.
18:50<jelly>!partial downgrade
18:50<dpkg>This may or may not work for you, but if you've got nothing to lose then try it: (a) change sources.list (b) aptitude update (c) aptitude and then search for the upgraded packages, hit enter on them, select the correct version (d) do the same for libc6 (e) search for broken packages by pressing "b" and then fix them in the same way (f) once you have no more broken packages, hit 'g'. See <not available>.
18:51<shipp>can you not just reinstall? If your /home directory is on a different partition you should be fine.
18:51-!-ttaat [~vv1@185.39.102.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:51<jelly>otherwise, a lesson is learned: do NOT add repos for debian releases newer than currently installed unless you damn well know what you're doing and why
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18:52<curbURenthusiasm>finally got debian installed. i like it better than ubuntu already
18:53<curbURenthusiasm>(debian virgin)
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18:53<shipp>well what are you doing on debian that you can't do on ubuntu
18:53<jelly>curbURenthusiasm: maybe go easily with nickname changes while you're getting help here
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18:55<jelly>dpkg, tell shipp about why debian
18:55<shipp>i have my reasons for why debian already, I was just wondering his
18:55<karenmcd>thanks both, yeah, I'm missing what looks like 2 pages in the CLI @ 190x52 of packages because they were all bullseye packages before and when i moved back to buster, then did apt update/upgrade it didn't revert stuff back to buster from bullseye,
18:56<karenmcd>then doing autoremove - removed those 2 pages of packages because they were not linked because i removed buster from sources.. - dang it
18:56<jelly>karenmcd: downgrades are in general not supported at all in Debian. But they sometimes accidentally work.
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18:58<shipp>Is debian testing considered rolling release? What happens if I'm subscribed to the testing branch, and bullseye gets released, am I automatically upgraded to the next distro?
18:58<karenmcd>thanks, ya.. I should have looked that up I guess - I had went to bullseye to obtain bleeding edge support for my new video card, and opted to downgrade the video card and then downgrade the distro again.. my fault i guess
18:58<jelly>shipp: it's not. Debian does not have any rolling release.
18:59<shipp>karenmcd: why are you choosing to leave bullseye though, I've been running it and have been happy with it
18:59<shipp>is debian sid not rolling release though
18:59<jelly>sid is not a release at all
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18:59<jelly>it's the development branch
19:00<jelly>!sid faq
19:00<dpkg>http://deb.li/sidfaq ; it doesn't hurt to read the FAQ, even if you are using <testing>. See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/08/msg00041.html and <sid upgrade test>.
19:00<karenmcd>I am wanting a stable system in that case - which is why i opted for a "new" old video card - so i could remove "non-free" and "contrib" - i want a GNU compliant install for that system specifically
19:00<shipp>i don't see how that's relevant to what I asked
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19:01<shipp>also according to the debian wiki, it is a release
19:01<shipp>just not a *real* one
19:02<jelly>I wouldn't call a "release" something that is never released
19:02<jelly>ymmv
19:03<shipp>if it's available and downloadable, that sounds like released to me. It's just not a frozen stable release like the other offical releases.
19:04<somiaj>shipp: It can function as a install in which you get newer software as it gets added to the debian system via the debian development process. But it doesn't get security support, and has very limited testing to ensure things don't break (in essence it is the place the testing is done to find and fix bugs)
19:04<shipp>I don't think it has any testing at all lol.
19:04<jelly>shipp: it's not released at all, you're merely seeing moving parts exposed because Debian does not hide them, so you can jump in and help fix things
19:05<somiaj>In development a release is not consider the current development branch, just look at github at the current development branch of the code vs the actual 'releases' you can get.
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19:06<shipp>I'm not saying it's a stable or supported release, I don't know where you're reading that. I'm well aware what sid is.
19:06<somiaj>shipp: matainers and automatic tests are run before uploaded to sid, then sid users get to test the packages for the 10+ days until they move to testing, so by the time packgaes get to testing, there is some testing done, but not nearly the amount that debian puts into a stable release which freezes testing and focuses on bug fixes for about 6 months.
19:06<shipp>I know how it works
19:07<jelly>you're not that well aware if you insist it to be a "release". Perhaps it's a semantic issue. Some words in Debian have interesting meanings.
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19:07<shipp>if you go to debian.org / releases tell me what you see
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19:07<sney>there is a point in the testing development cycle where it's relatively "stable" and fine for daily use, even in production, but "a couple months after the last stable release is not that point
19:08<shipp>it's a release because it's on debian's offical release page.
19:08<jelly>shipp: I can't even find "releases" on www.debian.org
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19:08<shipp>debian.org/releases
19:09<jelly>shipp: where is that linked from?
19:09<shipp>i don't know, I got there from google.
19:09<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/releases/ -- its there, but I don't agree with the vocabulary. I just must have a different definition of what a release is.
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19:09<sney>it's linked in the centre column in the footer, fwiw
19:09<karenmcd>shipp and jelly - thank you, i am going to re-install - such great support from here!
19:09<jelly>shipp: "Release info" on the main page.
19:09<jelly>shipp: yeah, that could be reworded.
19:09<jelly>sid faq is more precise.
19:10<shipp>debian does has some silly wording sometimes.
19:10<sney>I think that page has stayed mainly the same since the 90s
19:10<shipp>but yes it's basically semantics really lol.
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19:11<shipp>either way, debian testing is "rolling release" (in spirit I suppose) enough for me to be happy, compared to something unstable like Arch in my experience.
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19:12<shipp>I wanted a somewhat rolling-release, yet stable and Debian testing has made me happy.
19:12<shipp>I just wonder what happens when bullseye does come out. Do I get put on bullsye's stable branch, or the next testing branch?
19:12<sney>depends on what it says in your sources.list
19:13<somiaj>I ran sid for 10+ years, but find that most software I uses these days I don't get any advantage, and find stable + backports or compling the few pieces of software I need not in stable just easier to work with.
19:13<sney>if it says bullseye, you stay on bullseye, regardless of whether it's considered testing, stable, oldstable, etc
19:13<sney>if it says testing in your sources.list, you get whatever the current testing branch is called
19:13<sney>(this can be super turbulent in the days after a release, but that's mitigated by knowing when to upgrade)
19:13<somiaj>the second is usually not recommended, even if you want to change to the new testing, better to do this at a time you choose than when debian changes the links.
19:14<sney>a true rolling release was proposed at one point, but I think there wasn't enough interest.
19:14<sney>!debian cut
19:14<dpkg>"Constantly Usable Testing" (CUT) is a proposal to make a rolling branch of Debian. See the proposal: http://lwn.net/Articles/406301/ and the discussion: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/09/msg00502.html . http://cut.debian.net/
19:14<shipp>
19:15<somiaj>yea, they were waiting for a release to finish, and then never cam back to that idea.
19:15<sney>the systemd flamewar probably had something to do with that as well
19:16<jelly>shipp: if your sources.list entries point at the codename, as they're supposed to, you're left with that codename even if it became "stable"
19:16<somiaj>I liked the idea of debian cut, but I think the man power behind supporting the packages in the testing snapshots. But this way you get upgrades every couple months with some additional testing/bug/security support, and not just constantally flowing in.
19:17<shipp>my sources are at testing
19:17<jelly>then you're going to have a lot of fun after the next release
19:18<sney>he's got a couple years
19:18<jelly>he?
19:18<sney>they?
19:18<sney>we've.
19:18<shipp>I'm actually a russian bot*
19:18<shipp>machine learning has gotten advanced!
19:18<jelly>shipp: don't leave them that way, use "bullseye"
19:19<shipp>well should I leave it that way if I want to be moved on to the next testing branch?
19:19<jelly>NO
19:19<annadane>'testing' always points to testing, 'releasename' always points to releasename
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19:19<annadane>so bullseye is testing today, will be stable when bullseye releases
19:19<sney>it's a lot smarter do move to the next testing branch intentionally when you are ready to do so
19:19<shipp>Although, maybe I'll go to bullseye, haven't decided for sure yet.
19:19<shipp>Yeah that's true.
19:19<jelly>shipp: switch to next testing explicitely.
19:19<jelly>because things WILL break, horribly
19:20<sney>but again, there's a lot of time before you have to make that decision, and as long as you don't run unattended-upgrades, holding off on an upgrade for 3-4 months after the next stable release would have roughly the same outcome
19:20<shipp>are the branches just "bullseye" and "bullseye-security"?
19:20<jelly>and if you have more things to ask about best practices for testing
19:20<jelly>!debian-next
19:20<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
19:20<shipp>ok thank you
19:20<sney>testing security rarely exists in any meaningful way until the freeze
19:22<shipp>well isn't it better to subscrube to it then to not to
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19:22<shipp>well now I've swapped to bullseye instead of testing and everything looks good
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19:33<lololo>Hello!
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19:34<lololo>I'm having a problem with my wifi dongle and need your help. It's not being recognized after a failed apt-update. I've already tried to reinstall, without any success...
19:34<somiaj>I don't see why apt update would change any thing that is actually installed on your system.
19:35<somiaj>If you actually did an apt upgrade, might be due to changing kernels, and since you talked about 'tried to reinstall', does this mean you are compling some third party module for that wifi device?
19:36<lololo>somiaj: no, the reinstall was just downloading a "firmware-realtek" package on another PC, and installing it with dpkg -i
19:37<lololo>somiaj: I did an apt-update, but got a "no space left on device" error. The update was aborted while in progress and the wifi dongle could not be recognized anymore.
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19:37<lololo>That is, lshw and lspci only show the Ethernet RJ45 port.
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19:38<jelly>lololo: did you clean up the disk after that?
19:39<lololo>jelly: I did "apt autoremove" today, before reinstalling firmware-realtek. That is, many many days after the error.
19:39<jelly>lololo: okay. What does "uname -a" say
19:40<jelly>lololo: and which version of "firmware-realtek" package is installed
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19:42<lololo>jelly: firmware-realtek is firmware-realtek_20161130-5_all.deb
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19:43<lololo>I did a uname today, but I can't check it right now. My debian is 9.5.
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19:46<blast007>lololo: is it a USB device? check lsusb
19:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 606] by debhelper
19:49<lololo>blast007: it is an usb device!
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19:54<blast007>k, then that would be why lspci didn't show it. that's for PCI devices, not USB.
19:54<blast007>(PCI and PCIe)
19:55<lololo>blast007: how about lshw then? Wouldn't it need to show the dongle?
19:55<blast007>does lsusb show it?
19:59<lololo>blast007: I cannot check it right now, I will need to shut down the PC, exchange this Windows 7 one by the Debian 9 hard disk, then test and exchange again to reply...
19:59<lololo>Just a moment, okay?
20:02<jelly>lololo: you need to have firmware package matching or newer than the kernel currently running
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20:02<jelly>,v firmware-realtek
20:02<judd>Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20190717-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20190717-2; sid/non-free: 20190717-2
20:03<lololo>jelly: it's not amd64 because I'm using a 32-bit system.
20:04<jelly>lololo: eg if you booted a kernel version from stretch-backports, you'd need firmware 20190114 at least. those packages are exactly the same for 32bit and 64bit systems.
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20:04<lololo>jelly: how can I know if my kernel version is from "stretch-backports" ?
20:04<jelly>you'd look at output of uname -a :-)
20:05<jelly>and compare to, say,
20:05<jelly>,kernels
20:05<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-trunk-686-pae (5.3.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); bullseye: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); buster-backports: 5.2.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.2.9-2~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2+deb10u1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae
20:05<judd>(4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1~deb8u1)
20:06<lololo>OK jelly, I downloaded https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/firmware-realtek and will try installing it, plus the uname -a and the lsusb suggested by blast007
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20:22<lololo>I'm back!
20:23<sarnold>with wifi? :)
20:23<lololo>nope sarnold
20:23<sarnold>:(
20:23<lololo>Here is the uname -a output: Linux debiant32 4.9.0-11-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.189-3 (2019-09-02) i686 GNU/Linux
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20:24<lololo>I've tried installing firmware-realtek_20190114-2~bpo9+1_all.deb , no success.
20:24<lololo>The lsusb shows Bus 003 Device 003: ID 2357:0109 TP-Link TL WN823N RTL8192EU , this is the wifi dongle;
20:25<lololo>But there are just lo and enps2 on ip link show and /sbin/ifconfig -a
20:25<lololo>jelly and blast007 , any idea?
20:26*jelly is asleep
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20:38<hanif>hello guys
20:39<hanif>anyone can reply me ?
20:39<annadane>hi hanif
20:39<hanif>hi annadane , whatsup?
20:40<annadane>!ask
20:40<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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20:44<lololo>I'm having a problem with my wifi dongle. It's shown on lsusb but I can't use it to connect to the Internet. Reinstalling didn't fix it.
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21:30<twb>OK so remember last night I discovered that linux-headers-amd64/stretch-backports is Not My Friend anymore
21:30<twb>Is it still in the main pool, so I can just wget it or something? Or do I have to muck about with snapshots.d.o?
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21:31<twb>It won't be in *my* mirror, because my mirror is fed from Packages.xz... but maybe it's on deb.d.o...
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21:34<twb>Sigh. after stretch -> buster, w3m's incremental search has become *MUCH* slower on large pages
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21:35<lololo>Hello! I'm having trouble with my wifi dongle. It is recognized on lsusb, but neverthless, I cannot use it for connecting to the Internet.
21:35<sarnold>historically a UTF8 locale has lead to that kind of slowdown; if you need incremental search for a specific task that doesn't need UTF8 you may be able to do better with LANG=C w3m ...
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21:40<blast007>lololo: note that the 4.9 kernel is the normal stretch kernel, not the stretch-backports kernel
21:40<blast007>I don't know if that matters for which firmware package you get
21:41<blast007>the output of dmesg (may need to run as root) may indicate if firmware is not being found for the device
21:41<blast007>you could grep for that as follows: sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware
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21:42<twb>http://ix.io/1Y5h do you feel bad for me yet
21:42<lololo>blast007: I have already tried the backport for realtek-firmware (2019), and also the normal version (2016). Same result: lsusb shows it, but it's not shown on the network card list.
21:43<lololo>I'll try the dmesg, ok, blast007 ? What to do if there is no result for it?
21:44<sarnold>twb: yes that looks all kinds of terrible :)
21:45<blast007>lololo: if you don't see anything with the grup, just run 'sudo dmesg' and look through the output for info about your device
21:47<blast007>how are you installing the .deb file? with 'dpkg -i firmware-realtek.whatever.deb' (with the correct filename, of course)?
21:47<lololo>blast007: any idea about how I'll identify my device between so many messages there? Maybe unplug and plug again so it's the last item?
21:47<blast007>yeah, you could unplug the device, boot up, and then plug it in - then it'll be at the end of the dmesg output
21:47<lololo>blast007: yes, that's the way I reinstalled it, because it has no internet connection for using apt-update, since the dongle stopped working
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22:11<shipp>why are web extensions on the debian repo? Like ublock-origin for example. Isn't it better to install these from your browser's extension page instead?
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22:15<sarnold>shipp: "maybe"
22:16<sarnold>shipp: the browser extension page lets whoever controls the keys involved in publishing it push new live code to your browser basically whenever they want
22:16<sarnold>shipp: vs debian's method where the debian maintainer brings in changes, you can compare package versions, look through the changes before installing them, etc
22:17<sarnold>it's up to you if that's appealing or better or whatever
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22:21<bremner>also where various extensions are at least potentially tested together
22:21<bremner>and tested with the browser version that debian ships
22:21<shipp>ajj
22:21<shipp>ahh*
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22:22<shipp>I only use 4 extensions so I'm not sure if it'll matter too much, I haven't heard of issues with extensions pushing out bad updates before
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22:26<nezZario>Don't mean to name drop in here or anything, ...
22:27<nezZario>Does anybody know who this Thomas Dickey guy is? I am just curious. I have ran into his name like 3x in the last week. (it's all over Debian software). Anyway, if you happen to be an IRC'er, thanks. Your software rocks.
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22:29<sarnold>nezZario: have you seen his webpages? amazing stuff there https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.html
22:29-!-lololo [~oftc-webi@179.108.232.24] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:29<nezZario>haha yes, browsing it this second.
22:29<sarnold>cool cool :)
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22:31<nezZario>was actually all his xterm information that led me to his site like 2-3 months ago, then I ran into it AGAIN looking for stuff on ncurses like a month or so later, .. now, again, I was messing with these 'colortest-256' and such on debian, ... popped open the source code to these scripts and I'll be damn Thomas Dickey
22:31<sarnold>:D
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22:43<shipp>
22:44<shipp>(ignore that, wm spazzed out lol)
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22:44<shipp>exit
22:45<shipp>ls
22:45<shipp>htop
22:45<shipp>lxc-net
22:45<shipp>sudo service lxc-net restart
22:45<shipp>shippage
22:45<shipp>vim /etc/lxc/default.conf
22:46<shipp>pujk:q
22:46<shipp>sudo pujk:q
22:46<shipp>ilxc.network.type = veth
22:46<shipp>lxc.network.link = lxcbr0
22:46<shipp>lxc.network.flags = up
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22:52<rob_debian>Hi all, please, I know 'darktable' application is used in Debian for editing and processing large photos sessions. But, is that possible using VIM and Emacs or even Sed for such proposal ?
22:57<aloo_shu>if all you want is bulk edit file names and metadata, then maybe, still would need to write your own script I guess
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22:59<rob_debian>Hi aloo_shu, thanks for answering. In fact I'm just trying to understand if emacs should be customized for such task: editing photos sessions
23:00<aloo_shu>no idea tbh
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23:01<aloo_shu>emacs may have it's own channel, probably other IRC network, too
23:01<rob_debian>Fine aloo_shu, thank you for answering me ! Nice to meet you here :)
23:01<aloo_shu>yw
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 09 00:00:49 2019