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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-10-16

---Logopened Wed Oct 16 00:00:59 2019
00:04-!-dboehmer__ [] has joined #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer__ is "Daniel Böhmer,,," on #debian
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00:10-!-live is "realname" on #debian
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00:14-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #debian
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00:15-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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00:21-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-es #debian-next #debian
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00:28<cpaelzer_>bzed: thanks for open-vm-tools pkg membership
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00:29-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:56-!-Mo7Qt0 is "Mo7Qt0" on #debian
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01:26-!-Blue_Hat is "TwinKam20" on #debian
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01:28-!-rd235 is "renzo" on #debian
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01:43-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian-next #debian
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01:48<shiin>sqrt{not}: netinst, not netboot
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01:48-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next
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02:02-!-errst is "realname" on #debian
02:10-!-Etua is "Dominik Danelski" on #openttd #osm-pl
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02:10-!-dzragon is "Nisse" on #debian
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02:34-!-ach is "ZNC -" on #spooky #debian
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02:35-!-[rg] is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian #virt
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02:44-!-ee2455 is "ee2455" on #debian
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02:45-!-zem is "Marvin" on #debian-next #debian
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02:52-!-Etua is "Dominik Danelski" on #openttd #osm-pl
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03:06-!-Gromit is "Jan-Hendrik Palic" on #debian
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03:07-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #qemu #debian-meeting #debian-tech #debian-kde #debian
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03:08-!-jlgaddis is "" on #debian-next #debian
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03:13-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian
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03:17-!-rd235 is "renzo" on #debian
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03:18-!-imega is "coma" on #debian #ceph
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03:18-!-Kabouik is "Konsieur" on #debian
03:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 595] by debhelper
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03:24-!-sadrak|work is "purple" on #debian
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03:25-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #debian #debian-kde #debian-tech #debian-meeting #qemu #virt
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03:34-!-ayers_____________ is "David Ayers" on #debian
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03:42-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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03:45-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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03:50-!-dust is "dust" on #debian-games #debian #debian-next #linux-rt
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03:55-!-rgogunskiy is "Ruslan Gogunskiy" on #debian
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03:59-!-kiba is "realname" on #debian
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04:00-!-wvdakker is "wvdakker" on #debian
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04:25-!-Kabouik is "Konsieur" on #debian
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04:26-!-Kabouik is "Konsieur" on #debian
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04:26-!-frodo87_16 is "Frodo" on #debian #kernelnewbies #linux-iio #oftc
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04:27-!-war is "war_" on #debian #debian-next
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04:30-!-Delta-One is "P.F." on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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04:31-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian
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04:38-!-Human_G33k is "realname" on #debian-gitlab #debian-java #debian-kde #suckless #debian-next #debian-meeting #debian-devel-changes #debian-desktop #debian-debsources #debian
04:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 602] by debhelper
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04:45-!-cHawk is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #openttd #debian
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05:22-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
05:22<user01>how realistic is it that newer version of a game in debian testing will make its way to debian/debian backports stable?
05:22<annadane>user01, entirely volunteer driven
05:23<annadane>i'm not certain how to check whether the specific package you're inquiring about is on its way into backports, perhaps someone else is
05:23<user01>annadane, supertuxkart
05:24<user01>they added online gameplay to it in version 1.0x and in stable it iss 0.9.3
05:24<annadane>user01, supertuxcart isn't in debian at ALL
05:24<annadane>anyway, brb
05:25-!-lwargon [~lwargon@2a01:e35:8bef:93c0::2] has joined #debian
05:25-!-lwargon is "Laurent Wargon" on #debian
05:26<user01>annadane, you misspelt the package
05:27<grove>rmadison says that supertuxkart (notice the 'k' in 'kart') is in all versions it cares about (Jessie and forward)
05:28<user01>grove, yep i was wondering if there would be a backport since the testing version supports online gameplay
05:29<grove>I don't know if there are other limits to what can enter backports than the simple requirement that someone does the work
05:29<user01>grove, ok i thought maybe there had to be so many days without a bug or something
05:30<annadane>i can't read, sorry about that
05:31<annadane>judd, checkbackport supertuxkart --fromrelease sid --torelease buster
05:31<judd>Backporting package supertuxkart in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster.
05:32<annadane>so it wouldn't be too difficult
05:35-!-kmc [] has joined #debian
05:35-!-kmc is "realname" on #debian
05:37<user01>annadane, so i could just probably dpkg -i it . . .
05:38<annadane>i... think that's how it works? yeah...
05:38<annadane>don't quote me, though.
05:38<user01>well gdebi is safer
05:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 608] by debhelper
05:39<user01>for dependencies i think
05:39<annadane>"gdebi lets you install local deb packages resolving and installing its dependencies. apt does the same, but only for remote (http, ftp) located packages.
05:40<annadane>learn-how-to-irc-properly-idiot lets you match opening quotation marks with closing quotation marks
05:40<thsnr>apt is completely capable of installing local packages and resolving their dependencies
05:40<thsnr>apt install ./local-package.deb
05:40<annadane>yeah, i wonder why the package description says that
05:42<DusXMT>user01: keep in mind that you might experience problems with libraries not being 100% compatible, especially when going from a project built using newer libraries and installing it on a system with older libraries
05:43<user01>DusXMT, ok checking
05:43<DusXMT>(this is why it's generally advised to re-build the packages from source, and not just install the binary)
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05:43-!-ph0b0s_ is "ph0b0s" on #debian
05:44<kmc>Hi, I'm new here, is it possible to post debian uprade problems here ?
05:45<DusXMT>kmc: sure, just make sure to use a paste service when sharing logs / blocks of text, eg.
05:46<DusXMT>and welcome :)
05:47<annadane>but yeah um, should i file a bug report against that gdebi description
05:47<annadane>i think it's wrong re: apt
05:48<DusXMT>I might not be qualified to answer, but I think yes
05:48<DusXMT>As it is somewhat deceptive
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05:53-!-jmux is "Jan-Marek Glogowski" on #debian
05:55<kmc>I have 3 services in error since Jessie->Stretch upgrade. 1 service is rsyslog. The machine is a VM
05:55<kmc>vm293 ~ > systemctl reset-failed
05:55<kmc>vm293 ~ > systemctl start rsyslog
05:55<kmc>Job for rsyslog.service failed because the control process exited with error code.
05:55<kmc>See "systemctl status rsyslog.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
05:55<kmc>vm293 ~ > journalctl -xe
05:55-!-kmc was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
05:56<thsnr>I guess he decided to ignore DusXMT :)
05:56*DusXMT chuckles * as per usual :)
05:57<annadane>come baaack we have cookies
05:57*annadane continues mouseovering kmc
05:57<annadane>i really need to enable joins/oarts... but the spam...
05:57<annadane>oarts? oarts.
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05:58-!-Delta-One is "P.F." on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
05:58<DusXMT>uarts ;)
05:59<annadane>plus enabling them is probably like entire megabytes of wasted space if i keep this install running for years ......
06:00<annadane>in the hexchat logs
06:00-!-diefi [~Fi@2001:a61:b27:9201:18c0:59be:4cab:9ebf] has joined #debian
06:00-!-diefi is "Die" on #debian
06:00<annadane>(that's a copout; it's just spam and annoying and i don't want to)
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06:01<jm_>I have them enabled, and yes, for #debian they can be big part for some days with so little conversation, back then when there was more talk it was far smaller percentage
06:01-!-mythos [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
06:02<DusXMT>there's only so much to talk about, considering that there are articles and forum entries about everything nowadays
06:04<annadane>my kali linux is broken help
06:04-!-holorum [] has joined #debian
06:04-!-holorum is "hackerrr" on #debian
06:05<holorum>So... How does IRC work? I mean I'm pretty mutch just trying it for the first time now?
06:05<holorum>Like... how can I host my own server?
06:05<holorum>So... How does IRC work? I mean I'm pretty mutch just trying it for the first time now
06:06<annadane>well, you talk to us and we give you answers and stuff
06:06<annadane>i have no idea how one hosts their own server, you'll have to get an answer from someone with an IQ of more than 20
06:06<jm_>installing a server is not a problem, getting it linked to others is :)
06:07<holorum>I'm not trying to get others to use the server, I just want to use it with my friends... all two of them
06:08<jm_>then it's trivial to install it, at least in debian
06:08<holorum>Like a private place we can talk, and not use things like Messenger, and Facebook, with the likes of Telegram, WhatsApp, and all those things
06:08<DusXMT>holorum: IRC is better suited for larger groups of people, you might find protocols like XMPP more useful for smaller amounts of people
06:09<holorum>Give me a minute, I need to google what an XMPP is
06:09<DusXMT>It used to be called Jabber
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06:25<annadane>is there like, a happy medium (not virtualbox) between qemu and virt-manager...?
06:25<annadane>i'd use qemu for virtualizing but the command line options confuse me
06:25<annadane>i guess it basically is virtualbox/virt-manager for what's simplest
06:25<bremner>annadane: yeah, that's libvirt / virsh
06:25<bremner>happy might be overstating it
06:26<DusXMT>the 'console' option of virsh is especially nifty
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06:26<annadane>libvirt-daemon as a package?
06:27<annadane>well, anyway, i'll figure it out
06:27<annadane>my system kind of sucks for virtualizing anyway, need a better pc
06:28<DusXMT>Creating virtual machines with virsh is even a greater pain than creating a script that just invokes qemu, but libvirt does have some huge advantages, like the fact that you can disconnect and re-attach from your virtual machines, accidentally closing the window won't kill your VM
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06:31-!-qwer is "alfa omega" on #debian
06:32*DusXMT was forced to learn how to use libvirt for work, and while the initial learning curve is quite a good bit steeper than just invoking qemu and reading through the man pages to find out how to configure it, but he wouldn't go back
06:33<DusXMT>s/but he/he/
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06:34<annadane>basically the sane thing do to i guess for the lazy is install virt-manager, it pulls in everything under the sun, therefore you get to use virsh and qemu and the virt-manager GUI and everything else
06:34<annadane>actually not strictly true, iirc it doesn't pull in too much qemu stuff
06:34<DusXMT>Yeah, since it can use other backends as well
06:35<DusXMT>like XEN
06:35<annadane>"loads of dependencies" are still like, only a few MB at most
06:36<annadane>time to virtualize my dreams, good night
06:37<jm_>probably also doesn't give you virsh
06:37<annadane>virt-manager does, by default
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06:39<jm_>ahh indeed, libvirt-daemon-system takes care of that
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06:57-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
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07:09<mendelmunkis>anyone have any idea why my super key would have just stopped generating scancodes?
07:09<grawity>you pressed the "game mode" key on your gamer keyboard
07:09<grawity>yes, some keyboards literally have a "game mode" key that disables win/super
07:10*jm_ is typing on such a keyboard, but its game mode switch is not easy to move by accident
07:11<mendelmunkis>thanks. turns out my "lock" media key gets treated as turn off super :(
07:12<mendelmunkis>(I'm on a laptop. no gamer keyboard)
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07:56-!-screennn is "Alexander Golovin" on #debian
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07:59<vikram>May I know , who is on the other side
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08:44<TotallyNotKim>vikram: no
08:45<chillysurfer>when running `dch --newversion <new_version>` is there a way to tell dch to not edit the changelog? in other words, the only thing it should change is the version and not go into an interactive editor
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08:47<thsnr>chillysurfer: pass it and empty text argument, e.g., dch -v 1.0 ""
08:48<chillysurfer>thsnr: perfect!! thanks!
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09:30<kmc>Hello, can someone help me debuging problems after a Stretch upggrade ?
09:35<aloo_shu>probably not me, but unless you state what the problem is, we'll never know
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09:37<tarzeau>i was so eager to help, but without telepathic powers, and now i've got to leave...
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09:40<kmc>I have 3 services in error since Jessie->Stretch upgrade. One service is rsyslog. The machine is a VMWARE VPS
09:41<kmc>Here are the systemd results:
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09:53<live>Hi...longtime distrohopper here...Many live iso images do not easily allow freeing up ram once it is used up (either by installing/updating packages, by downloading files. The files can get deleted through rm or a file manager, but the ram is not freed. Mounting an isoimage then deleting before unmounting is one such case, it seems. Any cli solutions or boot params?
09:54<tarzeau>live: there's different kinds of memory, used, cached, free
09:54<tarzeau>live: linux caches heavily, cashed memory can be looked at as free, as it's immediately available
09:55<live>free ram as in what htop reports (and the threshold that freezes my pc untill OOM or I need to reboot)
09:59<live>i have stumbled on a few debian/ubuntu derivs that did allowed downloading isos one a time burning them and deleting them to free space for the next iso. But its very rare, and even MX which used to work, now just failed to free mem. The zerofree package has worked at least on occasion in the past
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10:03<tarzeau>live: you mean disk space or memory?
10:03<tarzeau>live: because when you download an iso it's usually saved on a filesystem and filesystems usually are not in memory but on disk
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10:06<live>there are two main issues: one is not being able to redownload new files before having to give up and reboot, the other is that if ram gets too full the system hangs and oomreaper takes minutes to kill processes (or often the system freezes indefinitely). So for today the most important is freeuping the ram as htop sees it, but Ive seen system where the disk size (as told by du or a file manager) doesn't get freed.
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10:08<tarzeau>live: you have debian?
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10:10<tarzeau>kmc: sorry i was hoping it was not systemd related, i'm using screen+cron to start stuff @reboot
10:10<tarzeau>kmc: i found systemd to be undebuggable. feel free to rant at
10:11<live>theres a different 3rd issue: On some live isos the space allocated for downloading/storing files is too large vs. the space ram can handle, and while downloading a file it will freeze because your ram is instead of stopping the download because of "full disk" and thus not freezing.
10:12<live>I havent tried pure debian iso in a while but most of its derivatives have this problem, making me think it is default behavior for upstream
10:12<sqrt{not}>live: to what kind of media are you "burning" these downloads ? USB ?
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10:13<sqrt{not}>do you have any other kind of mass storage available on the machine besides the live systems ramdisk ?
10:13<tarzeau>live: 16:13 [OFTC] CTCP VERSION reply from live: HexChat 2.14.2 / Linux 5.3.1-arch1-1-ARCH [x86_64/1.40GHz/SMP]
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10:14<live>not sure what you mean by ramdisk, but if you mean the result of using toram boot parameter, then no, there is only a dvd and the ram .
10:16<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, arch is a hardware architecture (i386, amd64, armel, mips, mipsel, sparc, powerpc, alpha, hppa, s390 && ia64). Also a source control revision system (GNU arch). Arch (and its twin brother ArX) resides at, or, or #arch Since lenny, /bin/arch has disappeared, use "uname -m" instead, or <architecture>, or <arch linux>.
10:16<tarzeau>!arch linux
10:16<dpkg>Arch Linux is an a i686 optimized linux distribution which claims to be minimalistic and fast, has binary and source based package management. #archlinux on
10:16<tarzeau>live: please try #archlinux if you have arch linux
10:16<live>I have search engined this problem over a year ago but I couldnt find anything i said zerofree (which says its for ext filesystems) worked in the past, but I think I remember it failing to free the ram as well, so its not a silver bullet
10:17<live>why are you saying I have archlinux?
10:18<live>are you fingerprinting my ip address?
10:19<live>i was using debian derivs as well..most have this problem
10:20<live>I can relogon with a debian deriv if you wish, or burn a pure debian weekly live build but I expect similar issues. On a recent version of MX at least the problem was solved. If a download was too large, it would just stop downloading instead of freezing the device, I could then delete files, continue the download, burn, and delete the iso.
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10:23<live>even on arch derivs these issues are hit or miss. Bluestar freezes when the download exceeds ram, even if the disk size still had space, whereas on another arch I can (usually) delete. I just deleted an iso that was mounted before unmounting it and that seems to prevent the ram from being freed
10:24<live>i would gladly write this on a pan-distro channel, but its relevant for debian as well
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10:25<dpkg>what a woc says. Out Of Memory, or
10:25<tarzeau>it's still true. it's linux(tm).
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10:27<thsnr>live: you seem to have some concepts mixed up. e.g., zerofree is used to overwrite unused blocks with zeroes, it does not free any space. additionally, the toram boot parameter copies the entire contents of your DVD to memory, which would explain why you are running out.
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10:37<live>regardubg oomreaper, its very slow to get invoked (if it does at all, its measured in 5-15minutes). There is a facebook talk on youtube on a "oomreaper2 (oomd) but I havent seen it in any repo yet. Other tidbit: bootparam ramdisk_size= allows making the "disk size" smaller to avoid a download freezing your pc. It sorta solves one of the 3 issues, but when trying a new iso you still have to guess how much ram the iso itself (whether toram'ed or not) will take
10:37<live>so as to choose a disk size that will fill before your ram gets filled
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10:41<live>thsnr: maybe it wasnt zerofree but I definitely found a tool available as a deb that would allow reducing ram use while booted live. And yes, I understand toram fills up more ram, but the IDEAL behavior is for the disk to fill, not freeze, allow you to delete, and carry on. Any solutions? Id even be interested to know how to modify the iso (or create a custom live iso ala iso-snapshot or other tools, but to simply change the configs necessary for all this to
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10:44<live>the deb was found through synaptic with keywords like free mem and such
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10:45<live>free mem ram wipe...
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10:56<live>tbh brings me to my next question/point. Is no one else bothered by the fact that debian kernel is 12 point updates behind? Apparently each lts release solves bugs, several of which are security bugs, often CVE-less Is the lts kernel really unstable and will break after months/years? GKH (in charge of linux releases) recommended lts over debian kernel, last I heard.
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10:56<live>latest lts that is
10:57<live>this is why I am running arch right now, as I couldn't find a single debian (or deriv) iso image with the latest patched kernel to run live
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10:59<live>sparky has a stable kernel available, but they release their isos with the debian kernel. The kernel is possibly the least upgradeable part of an iso, which means that to upgrade the kernel (without kpatch and boatloads of ram) I need to download a new iso.
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11:01<live>is this not something that would be desirable? debian images with up-to-date upstream (or slightly modified) kernels?
11:02<bremner>I guess that most people that want updated kernels are not running live images.
11:02<bremner>it's quite easy to install an upstream kernel in a normal debian install
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11:03<bremner>kernels in stable do get security patches, so tracking upstream is mostly not needed (except for new/exotic hardware)
11:04<blast007>and the variant with non-free firmware:
11:04<live>blast007: I know about weekly images, but IIRC they werent updated kernels (so likely 4.19.67 right now...I think sid and maybe testing have newer, but I have not found iso images...
11:04<blast007>testing uses 5.2
11:04<bremner>and 5.2 is available in buster-backports
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11:05<blast007>if you look at the .packages files for each ISO, you'd see it has a 5.2 kernel
11:05<blast007>most users would want to stick with the stable installers though
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11:06<live>bremmer: (sorry forgot how to directtalk in irc) google is fuzzing the kernel and finding tons of security bugs each lts release (4.19.79 right now), and both linuS and GKH dont want security bugs to be called out as security bugs or get CVEs, so they tell people to upgrade for security reasons without going into details
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11:08<bremner>well, "just trust us, upgrade" doesn't really work well with distros.
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11:09<live>5.2.what? kernel is now at 5.3.6 (which is available in daily manjaro images, say) and 5.2 is getting old from a security perspective, for me at least. Look at kernel commits, you will see many "bugs" with double-free use-after-free etc, all publicly available
11:09<bremner>well, is there a support question in here anywhere?
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11:11<live>i guess no one else knows of any updated kernel images...isnt there a voting system with debian? who would I need to talk to or get the word out for people to want this to happen (or tell me the stability will not be good enough for debian standards as a consequence)
11:12<live>should i go to debian-tech channel?
11:12<somiaj>debian stable provides a frozen kernel, the kernel is the 4.19 longterm branch. Bug fixes and security fixes need are backported to that kernel.
11:13<somiaj>If the bug isn't considered rc or a security issue, it might be fixed during a point release, but depends on the bug.
11:13<somiaj>the 'upgarade to the newest version to fix security issues' is a false assumption in debian. Any bug with a cve can clearly be tracked on the security tracker.
11:15<live>somiaj: as I said above, often CVE-less
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11:15<live>and frankly even cve!! bugs were not all solved on bugtracker!
11:15<somiaj>report the bug to the debian bts, non cve's are also fixed (if deeped sever enough)
11:16<somiaj>not all bugs will be fixed, get use to it. Some bugs are minor, or don't even affect debian kernels (due to debian not using that option in their config)
11:16<somiaj>but you seem to be mostly working with hypethetical. What bug are you experencing? Is this bug reported to the debian BTS?
11:17<somiaj>if you don't trust debian's kernel/security team to keep the debian stable kernel bug free enough for your, roll your own kernel.
11:17<live>are you saying I should look in linux commits, and mention these C issues that result in undefined behavior or such (double free, etc), or that I should mention some of the myriad race conditions that google's fuzzer is finding?
11:19<live>and they will not close these bugs as too much to deal with? or maybe they will feel the need to update the kernel more frequently...
11:19<bremner>nobody is stopping you from tracking upstream kernels. It's just one of the many things that is hard in a live image.
11:20<somiaj>you should mention bugs that you find that affect the debian stock kernel you are using.
11:20<jhutchins_wk>live: Nobody is keeping you from donating your time to the kernel packaging team either.
11:21<somiaj>But debian provides a frozen kernel that only recives fixes via backports, this is not going to change. If you find a bug in debian's stock kernel that warnets attention and hasn't already been reported, report it.
11:23<live>Given that not only the mainline kernel 5.3.6 but the LTS (supposedly stable? - please tell me if you think not) kernel is updated with not just bugs but a ton of unreported security bugs, I find it strand that a stability and security focused distro like debian does not include the lts kernel in some repo (and hopefully images), even if its just sid
11:23<live>or rolling/unstable
11:24<somiaj>debian stable provides an LTS kernel
11:25<somiaj>testing/unstable is not a release (only a development version), this uses whatever kernel is current in debian.
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11:25<live>compare the quantity of commits and frequency of kernel updates of other such backported kernels with debian. opensuse does 1000s of commits a year, the ubuntu kernel gets updated much more frequently. I understand they have deep pockets, but maybe Im losing my trust in debian's ability to provide security compared to other "families"
11:25<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-trunk-686-pae (5.3.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); bullseye: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); buster-backports: 5.2.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.2.17-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2+deb10u1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1); jessie-backports:
11:25<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1~deb8u1)
11:26<somiaj>do you have a security bug that affects the debian kernel? Can you verify it does (if it doesn't have a CVE). You are just spouting hypotheticals.
11:29<DusXMT>Also, the newest kernels will contain the newest bugs as well, eg. we had issues with 5.2 where I work at with broken PCI config space accesses with SR-IOV
11:29<live>thanks all for your help...I dont want to floood the channel too much. Im not an expert at fuzzing, C language or and hitting bugs
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11:31<live>but I hear what others are saying, and it feels insecure to not be upgrading the kernel in 1-2 months. Debian-type distros at least had a very easy to use system and some amount of init freedom (lacking it seems on ubuntu, fedora and suse, which were the other backported/stability-oriented kernels)
11:31<somiaj> -- last update, less than a month ago.
11:32<live>so I guess Im just torn and will have to decide on my own which distro to choose next
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11:33<somiaj>debian often groups lots of updates together, the frequency often depends on the severity and scope of the vulabilities.
11:33<live>DusXMT: the difference between such "new bugs" and "solved bugs in a commit" is that to whoever knows how to exploit these C vulns (use-after-free, etc) they know exactly where to look in the 15 millions lines of linux code
11:34<DusXMT>live: Well, I'm pretty sure they get backported into the longterm kernel lines (with 4.19 being one such line)
11:35<jhutchins_wk>live: It sounds like you would be happier with a commercial distribution like SuSE or RedHat that doesn't rely entirely on volunteer efforts.
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11:36<live>jhutchins: maybe, i guess i thought others in debian might find this more bothersome...
11:37<DusXMT>Heck, RHEL7/CentOS7 still uses the 3.10 line (although RHEL8/CentOS8 is out now)
11:38<somiaj>my centos6 machine is still on 2.6
11:38<somiaj>well 2.6.32
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11:39<live>Dus: I recall reading an article where GKH was saying how these bugs could be exploited in backported kernels and demonstrated it. It may have been a link I found through his blog
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11:40<somiaj>this is way to many hyptoehtcails. Again if you find a bug that can be exploited in the debian kernel, write up steps to do it and report it.
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11:41<DusXMT>live: Well, no one is preventing you from installing the most bleeding edge kernels, it's not actually all that difficult to compile your own kernel, I have to do it on my raspberry pi since it needs some patches to work that haven't been upstreamed
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11:43<live>currently the only families I could find running the latest lts as default were gentoo slackware and nix (maybe guix?)...ubuntu chooses a 4.15 or a 5.0 but then backports and updates kernel 100s of times, opensuse does similar to ubuntu, fedora - not sure, but they have some images with latest kernel (or close to it), opensuse tumblr has latest (non lts) kernel
11:43<somiaj>Unless there are sever enough security patches, debin updates the the newest LTS during point releases, not as soon as they come out.
11:45<live>but if slackware can "offer stability" (yes, I know, with dependancy resolution lacking) with an lts kernel, maybe lts kernel is not so bad stability wise...slackware has strong reviews on distrowatch, regarding stability
11:45<avu>live: Debian is providing an LTS kernel though?
11:46<somiaj>avu: they are complaing becuse debian's kernel is not the current LTS, but it is a few months behind + security fixes (because of how Debian's policy works)
11:46<live>avu: 4.19.67 is not 4.19.79 which is the latest upstream lts
11:46<somiaj>debian does upgrade to the current LTS at point releases, until then it only backports the fixes
11:46<avu>live: don't be fooled by these numbers
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11:47<somiaj>live: debian is 4.19.67 + security fixes, it contains a lot of what is in 4.19.79.
11:47<avu>live: the kernel team tracks LTS on its own and doesn't just blindly apply everything, so the version numbers don't match with upstream
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11:47<live>is it documented how the numbering works? why 4.19.67-1 bumps to 4.19.67-2 instead of 4.19.68 or something else?
11:47<somiaj>yes, debian policy cleary documents how it version numbers work.
11:48<avu>live: upstream version numbers generally aren't touched after a release
11:48<somiaj>note 4.19.67-2+deb10u1 means 2 debian revisions and 1 set of security fixes. .67 was the LTS when 10.1 was released, when 10.2 is released, the kernel team most often updates the the newst LTS including all the other non-security patches.
11:51<DusXMT>One thing I wonder about... the life cycle of Firefox ESR 60 ends next week on the 23rd of October, does this mean the debian package will be updated to 68.2?
11:51<somiaj>DusXMT: when a sever enough security fix is needed. So the next security fixes will update to the current LTS once ESR 60 no longer gets fixes.
11:52<live>DusXMT: I was tracking last year how slowly the upgrade for esr to 60 happened in debian after took a couple days at least, perhaps over a week
11:52<somiaj>So just as live is noting, there is a bit of a lag in debian, because only security fixes are pushed through, non rc-bugs aren't.
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11:53<DusXMT>Yup, I see, I'm mainly asking since I've been compiling firefox on my own, and am thinking of switching back to the packaged version
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11:53<somiaj>eventaully the security team will switch to the new LTS
11:53<somiaj>sorry ESR
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11:54<DusXMT>Okay, I guess I'll remain on 68.1 until then :)
11:55<live>Dus: you can also install icecat which is another esr based fork (slightly diffferent, privacy tweaks and fsf-approved)
11:55<annadane>firefox 68: now with 68% more Pocket
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11:55<DusXMT>live: Eh, I have my FSF fanaticism days behind me :)
11:56<somiaj>rebranding is a pain, so glad mozzila decided debian's policy is good enough to let us use their name again.
11:56<live>Dus: are you only interested in 68? More esr's means your'e more likely to have a 60 or 68 at the moment you want that version.
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11:56<DusXMT>live: I can't even comprehend what you're trying to say
11:56<annadane>the browser is one of two things i want newer versions of... i guess i always can use ESR but you begin to feel the lag after a while
11:57<live>somiaj: icecat != iceweasel - icecat gets rid of all telemetry...see the wikipedia browser comparison article for a few extra points
11:57<annadane>yeah, GNU icecat
11:58<live>Dus: if you want 68, maybe icecat will bump to 68 in the repos before debian, if you want 60, maybe icecat will remain 60 a little longer after firefox-esr in debian so you have more time to upgrade
11:58<DusXMT>"GNU: Where we get to make all choices for you. Now go and learn Emacs."
11:59<DusXMT>live: I'm already using 68 :)
11:59<somiaj>live: overall it sounds like you don't agree with debian policy, you should find a distro you do agree with. But support here is for debian.
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12:00<live>somiaj: thanks I stopped asking questions!
12:02<annadane>i guess it was sort of most noticeably felt pre 60 when firefox was slower and the improvements "upstream" so to speak had been around forever and users just weren't getting them
12:03<annadane>guess i'm veering into the off-topic lane now
12:04<DusXMT>(Yup, this exact reason is why I used the newest versions, until 68 became ESR, since the Quantum/Rust update was indeed a huge one)
12:05<annadane>mozilla also innovates a lot so i do sort of want non-esr
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12:14<live>or heres a debian question: does anyone else know of (or be interested ) if debian had a repo installer like ubuntu has y-ppa-manager (and perhaps other repo installers Im not aware of)
12:14<derjoschel>hello, i've got a problem starting the xserver on xfce4. The problem is, it doesn't come up, until i change into a terminal via STRG/ALT F2 and then STRG/ALT F7. I am using buster and GT 1030 graphics with x86_64-390.116. driver.
12:15<annadane>i don't think it'd have much use
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12:15<annadane>(sorry derjoschel, that was in reply to someone else)
12:15<DusXMT>live: systems with 3rd party repos are not supported here, since they can be a source of malware and instability. But if you want, you can edit /etc/apt/sources.list
12:15<live>MX linux has a gui mirror would be nice to mix and match (at your own risk, blablabla) repos to download those superuseful packages only available on one derivative's repo, say
12:16<annadane>yeah, it's not necessary
12:16<annadane>you can always suggest it to the actual developers, of course
12:16<annadane>file a wishlist bug against the installer i guess
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12:17<DusXMT>annadane: Huh, I'm pretty sure the installer has a mirror select
12:17<annadane>oh yeah in advanced mode i think it does
12:17<annadane>but what live is suggesting is different
12:17<live>annadane: which installer? debian-installer in bts?
12:17<DusXMT>annadane: Oh, I remember now, it only shows up when you press "advanced install", by default it picks the default mirror for the region selected when it asks for the region
12:17<annadane>live, yeah
12:21<live>Dus: its true that low level packages can bring instability, but if you know what you're doing you can easily install "top-level" gui packages that dont bother other packages, I believe theres a deb for "faking a dependancy being there"...starts with an e, i believe
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12:22<blast007>Gnome also has a "software sources" app for adjusting sources.list
12:22<annadane>but the thing is, debian aims to be minimal, adding an option to the installer seems a bit weird
12:22<live>equivs yeah, is that stable?anyone used it often?
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12:23<live>no not in the installer...just to have a deb in the repos that allows you to install more repos (like the mx repo, the siduction repo, etc)...this would be comparable to, but hopefully better than, y-ppa-manager installing 3rd party ppas/repos
12:24<annadane>"deb in the repos" is a bit vague without specifying where "in the repos" it goes
12:25<live>the mx-mirror selector tool in my view is already built and working great, it just needs to be be deb packaged (and updated) with a current debian mirrorlist, low hanging fruit for new packagers...maybe I will do it
12:26<live>does debian policy prevent such a package from even being available in unstable/sid/experimental, because 3rd party repos are against debian policy?
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12:26<somiaj>!don't break debian
12:26<dpkg>i guess dont break debian is
12:27<somiaj>you cannot just install a random package on a shared libary system and expect it to just work. The package needs to be compiled against the libaries in the debian version you are using.
12:27<annadane>in openbox, i'm trying to run virt-manager; i'm not in the libvirt group, but in xfce i got a prompt to enter the root password; in openbox i just get "unable to connect to libvirt qemu:///system. authentication unavailable: no polkit agent available to authenticate action 'org.libvirt.unix.manage'
12:27<annadane>i guess i should just add myself to libvirt
12:27<annadane>unless there's an openbox polkit
12:27<somiaj>There is nothing wrong with third party repos, it is just most of them are not complied against debian libaries. A ppa for ubuntu won't be compadable with debian.
12:28<somiaj>Debian doens't support third party repos, if a package is good enough quality to get into debian, the package creater can just get it into debian through the normal process.
12:28<live>i guess I can always download nix guix or other tools and install to a chroot or /opt/ or something
12:29<annadane>i thought the initial conversation was "an option to add to the installer"
12:29<annadane>maybe i just can't read
12:29<somiaj>But there are a few thrid party repos that work well with debian. But don't expect you can just install some random .deb and have it work in debian or break your depends.
12:29<annadane>it would be fun to have a list of acceptable 3rd party repos so users know which ones are ok
12:30<annadane>WINE is one of them for instance
12:30<live>somiaj: the 3rd parties that are most interesting are the ones for debian derivatives which only add a few package to an otherwise plainvanilla debian (with debian repos providing most of the packages and libs anyway)
12:30<somiaj>live: yea, you don't want to use those, read that don't break debian link.
12:30<live>ouch I will read then
12:30<somiaj>If the software is built against a different set/version of libaries than are in debian you can run into issues, and things will break.
12:31<somiaj>rebuilding the software for debian is often the best approach, over just install some .deb (note there is a lot of bad advise about this on the internet, but I've seen enough broken systems in here because of people just adding/installing software from a repo not built for debian)
12:32<annadane>okay fine i'll just add myself to the libvirt group
12:32<annadane>i'm sure there's a polkit package that does it but i'm lazy
12:32<live>maybe there can be a tool (one day?) that automatically mirrors all these repos into a trial repo and the automatically run tests to see if the package only uses standard debian libs and such, and if so, automatically copies it to the debian repos
12:32<live>does this exist? it would be awesome!
12:33<annadane>no, AFAIK
12:33<annadane>brb, have to log out
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12:59<pax2you>hi guys! Is the kernel of debian a distribution kernel?
12:59<annadane>not sure how to answer that
13:00<somiaj>what do you mean by 'distribution kernel'?
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13:04<somiaj>The debian kernel (or debian packages in general) often contain debian specific patches on top of the upstream source. So the debian kernel, is a longterm support kernel + debian patches.
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13:13<erebus2>Hi, I need help with KIO. I just upgraded from stretch to buster. Now klauncher complains that it cannot load any kio slave libraries.
13:13<erebus2>Unable to create io-slave. klauncher said: Error loading '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/kf5/kio/'.
13:13<erebus2>So I can't use konqueror any more. Even the save file dialog in Libreoffice is now broken.
13:20<sarnold>erebus2: you could use apt-file to find out what package is supposed to supply that file -- on my ubuntu 18.04 it's in the kio package, but perhaps it's been replaced
13:21<erebus2>I already checked that
13:21<erebus2>The file is in the kio package and it is installed
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13:22<erebus2>I just solved part of my issue: It looks like Libreoffice is still able to save files if I type in the path by hand - only directory browsing is broken.
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13:24<somiaj>erebus2: is this something you installed from the debian repos or a third party app?
13:25<sney>kio is a kde component
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13:27<sarnold>erebus2: how about debsums on kio? ldd on the .so?
13:28<erebus2>debian repo
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13:32<sney>erebus2: try with a new user profile, there might be some residual config data from the stretch version mucking things up.
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13:36<erebus2>debsums says everything is OK
13:39<erebus2>Not sure about ldd, but it doesn't complain about missing dependencies
13:40<erebus2>a new user profile is something I'd like to avoid
13:40<sney>just to test
13:40<erebus2>But maybe logging out and in again will already solve things
13:41<sarnold>how about dmesg? journalctl? xsession logs?
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13:47<assassinbuzz>only bot ??
13:47<retrospectacus>hi assassinbuzz
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14:40<chillysurfer>i remember seeing a web page (a page?) that had the activity for a package (like which version is in each repo, when it was released, etc.)
14:41<chillysurfer>anybody have that link handy?
14:41<dpkg> - here you can search for Debian packages and their contents. Or in some contexts. Maybe even
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14:42<retrospectacus>or perhaps
14:42<dpkg>The Ultimate Debian Database (UDD) is an effort to gather lots of useful information about Debian from a variety of sources and stuff it all into a giant PostgreSQL database.
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14:43<sarnold>launchpad also has some of this information even for debian packages, eg
14:44<sarnold>(s/debian/ubuntu/ to see the corresponding information for ubuntu packages)
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14:44<chillysurfer>hmmm ok i will look through some of those
14:44<chillysurfer>thank you!
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14:47<blast007>chillysurfer: you may be thinking of
14:48<chillysurfer>blast007: THAT'S IT!!!
14:49<chillysurfer>such a good view of it
14:49<chillysurfer>perfect thank you so much
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15:27<medu>Hi, is anyone aware of a kde4 repository/packages for buster?
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15:29<somiaj>medu: no, desktops are huge beasts, in debian you should use the one that comes with that release of debian.
15:30<somiaj>medu: why do you want kde 4? That is quite old.
15:32<medu>somiaj: I prefer it over 5. Tried it a few times but always went back. Now jessie is getting old, too...
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15:32<somiaj>yea, I think you are out of luck, unless you want to fork/matain it yourself.
15:32<somiaj>You may want to look at other desktops available if you aren't liking the new kde plasma
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15:33<medu>My prob is that some functionality I like/use didn't make it from kde4 to 5. And my hardware isn't the newest either.
15:34<medu>I guess I'll have a look at compiling latest kde4 for jessie first. Maybe that gets me another year or so :)
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15:38<pcuser>I think I am the only one who is active here, oh wellll
15:39<DusXMT>pcuser: you barely waited a minute before coming to that conclusion :)
15:40<pcuser>yes I am like that hehe
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15:42<retrospectacus>ps fax
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16:08<dpkg>rumour has it, cu is short for "see you", or does not r0x0rz, or "call unix", the uucp modem-dialing program. Cuba A ductile malleable reddish-brown corrosion-resistant iamagnetic metallic element; occurs in various minerals ut is the only metal that occurs abundantly in large masses. Atomic number 29. portuguese for "asshole"
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16:36<rob_debian>Hi all, please, I recommended a friend of mine to switch from ubuntu to debian buster 10.1.
16:36<rob_debian>But, according his explanantion for me, when he runs Windows on it with Wireless 200Mbps, it's fine; but when he runs Debian 10 he can only get 40Mbps ...
16:37<rob_debian>Surely there's any issue related to any network card missing in Debian (I suspect that's it, but not sure). Please, anyone can help me to fix this issue ?
16:38<rob_debian>firmware-iwlwifi firmware-linux firmware-linux-free firmware-linux-nonfree already installed, but without good result.
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16:42<sarnold>rob_debian: check to see if he attached to a 2.4ghz band rather than 5ghz band
16:43<somiaj>Could it also be the mode, a,b,n mode that is being used (besides just the band)?
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16:44<rob_debian>Hi sarnold and somiaj, thank you for attention ! Please: 5GHz connection with 80MHz bandwidth on channels 52, 56, 60 and 64
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16:45<rob_debian>not ghz, but 80 mhz band
16:47<rob_debian>back in 10 min
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17:06<rob_debian>Please, sarnold, do you have any idea why it's happening this performance loss in a network connection with Debian?
17:06<rob_debian>any wi-fi driver missing ?
17:07<rob_debian>Found this, but not sure:
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17:10<mcon>somiaj: WHat should I do, mow, to start a xserv on new GPU?
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17:19<somiaj>mcon: you may have to write an xorg.conf to this, you cna use xrandr to enable the other provider (if you want both), you might be able to disable the i915 internal card and not use it at all
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17:28<pax2you>thank you a lot to somiaj for explanation about 'distribution kernel'. Do you know the meaning of the code after the character "-" in the output of the command "uname -r"?
17:28<mcon>somiaj: I would like to be able to switch back and forth (possibly without rebooting), but I have little use of having both on-line at the same time (beside testing, of course). Can You give me info about how to use xrandr to switch?
17:29<somiaj>pax2you: debian kernel versions are <base version>-<abi revision>-<arch>
17:29<somiaj>the abi revision is important for people who use third party modules, if the abi revision changes, all third party modules need to be rebuilt
17:29<somiaj>mcon: what desktop do you use?
17:30<mcon>somiaj: cinnamon, currently.
17:30<somiaj>hmm, have you searched through cinnamon's display properities to see if it allows setting/configuring a second provider?
17:30<somiaj>If not, you'll have to add/remove them manually using xrandr (you can read the manpage or ask google for details)
17:33<pax2you>so the kernel of debian is modified by debian developer....
17:33<mcon>somiaj: Apparently cinnamon display settings does not see other than my internal card and it' manitor. I have xrandr man page in front of me, but I'm a bit confused... :(
17:33<somiaj>pax2you: yes, but this is different than the abi revision.
17:35<somiaj>mcon: I don't really know, look at the --setprovideroutputsoure option
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17:36<somiaj>as I said, maybe google will help. This multiple provider (video cards) setup is a newer feature and not often used, so might take some trial and error
17:36<mcon>somiaj: Ok. Thanks. I was looking just at that, but it's very terse. I'll try googling...
17:37<mcon>somiaj: I'm a bit afraid to lock myself out of the system....
17:37<somiaj>xrandr won't change system settings, rebooting (or even restarting xorg) will fix any changes
17:41<mcon>somiaj: Ok. I'll try ;)
17:41<sarnold>rob_debian: somiaj's idea that it might be a/b/g/n/ac is also possible
17:41<sarnold>rob_debian: possibly there's radio levels
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17:43<sarnold>rob_debian: check the strengths, noise, etc
17:44<tlgl>hey i was wondering if anyone would be able to help me with a boot service that fails to start. I have tried to delete it and reregister it and it fails to start. I am running debian 9 and the service that fails to start is rtorrent
17:44<pax2you>thx somiaj :)
17:44<somiaj>tlgl: is this a systemd unit? What does systemctl status rtorrent.service (or whatever the unit is called) output. Use a pastebin.
17:44<rob_debian>Fine sarnold, not so clear for me yet
17:45<tlgl>ok sure let me try to find the exact service name give me a few mins to look
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17:48<tlgl>somiaj: here you go
17:49<somiaj>tlgl: something about the service is misconfigured and it is exiting with exit code=e
17:50<tlgl> alright so how would i properly delete that service and then i can try this guide
17:50<somiaj>is this a debian package, are you using some third party unit file?
17:51<somiaj>but somethign is wrong with your unit file or command being run, and it is not running due to some error
17:51<tlgl>i downloaded it from apt get
17:51<somiaj>I don't know rtorrent enough to be of much help
17:51<tlgl>well i can launch it from terminal by typing rtorrent it just doesn't start the service on boot u[p
17:51<somiaj>look at that ExecStart line, can you run that line normally?
17:51<somiaj>well it could be screen causing the problem, do you have screen installed?
17:51<tlgl>so if i knew how to properly delete that service i can try to configure it again
17:52<tlgl>i do believe i have screen installe
17:52<tlgl>is there a way to check?
17:52<somiaj>just edit the file /etc/systemd/system/rtorrent.service
17:52<somiaj>run screen --version -- wha toutput do you get
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17:54<tlgl>ok i have a question to ask i don't have a mouse installed just a touch pad right now I have highlighted the text in terminal but without a middle mouse button how do i copy/paste what i have highlighted
17:54<sarnold>tlgl: shift+insert
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17:55<sarnold>tlgl: sometimes clicking both left and right buttons at once will do the trick too, but shift+insert should work
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17:56<tlgl>ok that didn't do anything it just pasted my pastebin that i copied from firefox i do have screen installed it isn't important but it is version 4 as I can't with either ctrl+v or shift ins they don't paste what i have highlighed in terminal
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17:56<tlgl>i'll try left+right
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17:56<sarnold>tlgl: hold on..
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17:56<tlgl>Screen version 4.05.00 (GNU) 10-Dec-16
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17:57<tlgl>ok i just needed to right click and copy
17:57<sarnold>firefox changed recently from using selection to using the clipboard; if you don't know what this means, you may also like to run this:
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17:57<sarnold>autocutsel -f
17:57<sarnold>autocutsel -f -s PRIMARY
17:58<sarnold>(I've got those started in my ~/.xsession to synchronize the selection source with the clipboard. I was very annoyed when firefox changed behavious :( )
17:58<tlgl>root@EVE:/home/tlgl# autocutsel -f -s PRIMARY
17:58<tlgl>bash: autocutsel: command not found
17:59<sarnold>in the autocutsel package
18:00<thsnr>tlgl: pastebin the contents of /etc/systemd/system/rtorrent.service please
18:00<mcon>somiaj: very funny: xrandr fails, gdm powers up gboth systems (and I can move mouse cursor between screens), but after login new GPU is off again.
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18:00<thsnr>also note that systemd is sometimes unable to tie the last log lines before a process exited to the service, so checking the tail of your logs just after the service fails might yield some extra information
18:01<somiaj>mcon: might be cinnimon just doesn't deal with multiple providers, and xrandr should work provided you tell it what to do. This is out of my experience, I only know what I've seen in passing.
18:01<tlgl>i would just run pico in front of that path?
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18:03<thsnr>i would just "cat /etc/systemd/system/rtorrent.service", but yeah, you can use any editor
18:03<somiaj>pico? use nano on debian.
18:03<tlgl>i ran pico use to slackware and it ran nano anyways
18:03<somiaj>pico isn't free...
18:03<somiaj>ahh yea, compadiblity I guess
18:04<tlgl>strange pico use to come with slackware which was years ago since they released an update
18:05<mcon>somiaj: I'll try with plain gnome (or would You suggest something different)?
18:05<somiaj>I don't use any desktop, so my suggestion wouldn't be appropriate
18:06<somiaj>tlgl: pico/pine use to be fairly defacto standards for a long time, but they are owned by the university of washington, so nano, alpine, mutt are free replacements
18:07<thsnr>tlgl: and if you run "screen rtorrent" manually, then it works?
18:07<tlgl>i liked slackware as it was as close to unix and un user friendly as anything i have ever found. I find debian a nice system to use without having to smash your head against a wall in frustration on getting things to work
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18:08<tlgl>i have rtorrent running right now I am not sure how to close it off give me a chance to google how to do it before i can try that command
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18:09<thsnr>do you have it open in a terminal? then it should be ctrl+q in that window
18:09<tlgl>yup it works fine with screen rtorrent
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18:09<tlgl>yea i had it open in a terminal and yes crtl+q was what i found when i googled it
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18:10<thsnr>okey, close it again, run "sudo systemctl start rtorrent.service" and then immediately "sudo journalctl -e" and check if you see any errors related to rtorrent
18:12<tlgl>it recomended journalctl -xe should i run that or just the -e
18:12<thsnr>the x is not necessary
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18:14<thsnr>ahaa, something is missed the first time around
18:15<thsnr>tlgl: you have User=rtorrent in your service file. does such a user exist on your machine (and do you want to rune the service as that user or as tlgl)?
18:16<tlgl>i wanted to run it as tlgl
18:16<thsnr>then edit /etc/systemd/system/rtorrent.service, replacing User=rtorrent with User=tlgl
18:16<tlgl>shoot i must have missed that when i setup the service as they were using a user called rtorrent so i was changing everything from rtorrent to tlgl
18:17<thsnr>after you edit the file, run "sudo systemctl daemon-reload" and "sudo systemctl start rtorrent.service"
18:17<thsnr>it hopefully works now
18:18<tlgl>how do i get out of the journal it is sitting at end
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18:19<tlgl>i think it worked no error
18:20<thsnr>you can check the service status with: sudo systemctl status rtorrent.service
18:20<tlgl>it is running
18:21<tlgl>i installed some toolkit for system services i can't remember what it was called but it loaded via your web browser and you could do system tasks with it
18:21<thsnr>you can attach to the screen session with: screen -r rtorrent
18:21<tlgl>is there a way i can see if it was installed via apt get ?
18:22<thsnr>and detach from the screen session with ctrl+a d
18:23<tlgl>sweet thanks
18:23<thsnr>happy to help
18:23<tlgl>i finally have this fixed and to think it was just because of a user error
18:23<tlgl>i must have missed that rtorrent user
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18:29<tlgl>sorry about that some how my wifi got turned off when i was editing the power settings
18:30<tlgl>so anyways back to finding that toolkit I had installed is there an easier way instead of looking through synaptic package installer?
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18:32<tlgl>i found it called webmin
18:33<sarnold>please firewall that off to only allow YOU to access it. it's had a long history of being crap code.
18:33<dpkg>Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see . The Debian package from is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives.
18:35<tlgl>alright it won't even let me connect anyways so i don't think its running
18:36<tlgl>how would i uninstall it from apt get?
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18:37<retrospectacus>apt-get purge webmin, probably
18:38<tlgl>strange it says it is unable to find the package webmin
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18:38<tlgl>i might not have installed it this time
18:38<retrospectacus>then you did not install it with apt/dpkg
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18:39<tlgl>well i found the instrructions from the guide i used and it definitely says to use apt get to install it
18:39<sney>is there a date on that guide?
18:39<tlgl>so i had to format before as i had created a huge kernal
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18:39<sney>debian has not had a webmin package since 2007.
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18:40<retrospectacus>You would have to download a deb file and then install it manually with `dpkg -i webmin.deb`, then it would be possible to remove with apt-get
18:40<tlgl>yes it has the instructions to install it
18:41<tlgl>cd /tmp
18:41<tlgl>sudo dpkg --install webmin_1.820_all.deb
18:41<sney>the people who write those howtos should be forced to maintain the resulting servers. "here just make everything insecure, ok have fun bye"
18:42<tlgl>is it really insecure for rtorrent?
18:42<sney>webmin is insecure by nature
18:42<retrospectacus>if that is how you installed it, then it would be removed by apt-get purge
18:42<tlgl>ah ok i had installed it as it was cool to look at first but i don't think i installed it again this time around
18:43<tlgl>is there anything similar that is secure?
18:43<sney>the smart secure approach is just to use systemctl like everyone else
18:43<sney>don't be afraid of the terminal, it becomes easy with very little practice
18:43<retrospectacus>the robot mentioned <free whcp>, you may type /msg dpkg free whcp
18:43<retrospectacus>but yes, the most powerful and secure option is simply `ssh' :)
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18:45<retrospectacus>(whcp means Web Hosting Control Panel. That does not sound like what you are doing so forget that)
18:45<retrospectacus>ssh and screen is the perfect and usual way to run rtorrent.
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18:47<tlgl>yes i intend to use this more often now i had a question. I had installed a programming program for C and C++ and i was trying to compile dirtycow for android but everytime i tried to run it to compile for arm it would give me an error. Is there something I can install on this laptop to compile it for android ?
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18:47<sney>you would need a cross compiler.
18:48<sney>I think there are toolkits out there but it tends to be a complicated/annoying process
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18:48<tlgl>yes it was just to try to see if i could get root on my tablet without actually installing a third party kernel
18:49<sney>this is probably where you need to start with programming for android:
18:49<sney>but it's not something you can just figure out in a day
18:50<tlgl>alright i'll check it out bujt there is just no simple command to take the src ? also what would i install for git hub to run git clone website?
18:50<sney>'apt install git'
18:50<sney>there is no simple command to compile arm binaries on an x86 computer, at least not without a lot of setup beforehand
18:50<sarnold>if it's just a simple c file *maybe* you could get there via installing build-essential and gdc-9-arm-linux-gnueabihf and go from there
18:50<bremner>theres also 'apt install android-sdk'
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18:51<sarnold>not gdc-* sorry. :( I misread
18:51<tlgl>ok so should i just use synamptics and just query c or C++?
18:51<tlgl>er synaptcis
18:51<sney>that is nowhere near specific enough
18:52<sney>sarnold suggested some package names, why don't you try those
18:52<sarnold>gcc-9-multilib-arm-linux-gnueabihf .. I thought that package name didn't look *quite* right :)
18:53<tlgl>so gcc instead of gdc?
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18:53<sney>yes, gcc
18:53<tlgl>ok i have build essential installed already
18:54<tlgl>nothing came up when i searched gcc-9-arm
18:55<tlgl>nm i see where it was wrong
18:55<tlgl>still notghing with gcc-9-multilib-arm-linux-gnueabihf
18:55<sney>,v gcc-9-multilib-arm-linux-gnueabihf
18:55<judd>No package named 'gcc-9-multilib-arm-linux-gnueabihf' was found in amd64.
18:55<tlgl>ah thats what it was i had installed ming on my windows machine
18:56<tlgl>should i just search gcc and install all those packages?
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18:56<sney>,v gcc-arm-linux-gnueabihf
18:56<judd>Package: gcc-arm-linux-gnueabihf on amd64 -- stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; buster: 4:8.3.0-1; bullseye: 4:9.2.1-3.1; sid: 4:9.2.1-3.1
18:56<sney>found it ^
18:57<tlgl>i found gcc-6-arm-linux-gnueabi
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18:57<sney>you're using stretch?
18:58<sney>debian 9?
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19:00<sney>looks like that'll probably be fine. though it doesn't say 'hf' so it might only be for armel
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19:01<sarnold>and android stuff may be all over the place. there's no guarantee that every phone is an armhf..
19:01<sney>indeed, though I think most current ones are. soft float is sloooow
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19:02<sarnold>yeah it's hard to imagine anyone using soft float but you know those phone folks, they save pennies in the weirdest places :)
19:03<sney>and there's probably more to building android compatible binaries than just getting an armv8 ELF. But that's out of my wheelhouse so I can't say for sure
19:03<sarnold>yeah that's pretty far out of my experience too
19:03<sney>I kind of played with it around 5 years ago trying to build AOSP for a phone I had. all those memories are gone
19:04<sarnold>it might be easiest to build on the device itself
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19:22<tlgl>i was using termux on my phone
19:23<tlgl>but just a question how would i send something with adb via usb in linux ?\
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19:24<tlgl>my tablet is running android 7.1.1 and my phone is running android 9
19:24<sarnold>iirc it's adb send, but that was ~six years ago.. hehe
19:25<bremner>tlgl: there a lot of resources on adb available. It's not specific to debian
19:25<tlgl>i had a hard time trying to get my phone/tablet recognized in adb
19:26<bremner>the command is "adb push", but you'll still need to look up the parameters in the documentation
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19:26<tlgl>so if i searched for android in synaptics would i find adb?
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19:26<bremner>I think I mentioned android-sdk a while ago. That includes adb
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19:33<tlgl>i only found
19:33<tlgl>Android SDK Platform for API Level 23 (6.0 Marshmallow)
19:33<tlgl>is there any different packages to find for 7 8 or 9 ?
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19:43<tlgl>ok so i found and marked packages for install and when i went to apply it in synaptics it said to fix the broken packages first
19:44<tlgl>/ping $me
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19:46<tlgl>it is saying that the repositories are not responding to check my internet connection and that it could not lock the directory etc however it says to fix the broken packages before i can either mark for upgrades or apply the current installed packages is there a way to find which are broken packages?
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19:52<tlgl>im looking on however i can't find a spot to download the platforms for 9 and 7.1.1
19:53<bremner>the package is called android-sdk, and version 25 is in debian stable.
19:55<tlgl>i just found 23 in synaptic package manager though?
19:56<tlgl>i need 28 and 25 though so would i just apt get install android-sdk-platform-25 and 28 ?
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19:59<tlgl>root@EVE:/home/tlgl# apt-get install android-sdk-platform-25
19:59<tlgl>Reading package lists... Done
19:59<tlgl>Building dependency tree
19:59<tlgl>Reading state information... Done
19:59<tlgl>E: Unable to locate package android-sdk-platform-25
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20:01<tlgl>i see debian 10 is out now how would i upgrade as setting up rtorrent was a pain
20:03<bremner>tlgl: there's a guide to upgrading in the release notes
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20:04<tlgl>ok let me check that out then as i have 9.4.0 installed
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20:04<dvs>tlgl, the first thing the guide will tell you to do is to update version 9 to the latest.
20:05<tlgl>ok how would i do that?
20:06<tlgl>i am trying to find the release notes but i am not finding it on
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20:07<dvs>tlgl, apt update && apt upgrade && apt dist-upgrade
20:07<dvs>!release notes
20:07<dpkg>The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at . See also <stretch->buster>, <buster install guide>
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20:10<tlgl>ok thanks for the release notes i am seeing some things like apparmor etc i am still reading this but is there some features i should be aware of?
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20:15<tlgl>ok so i have ran those commands and I had to run apt autoremove and it is no longer updating anything now so is there anyway to make sure that I am fully updated to the latest version of 9?
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20:18<dvs>cat /etc/debian_version
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20:19<tlgl>it says 9.11
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20:20<dpkg>Stretch is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>.
20:20<dvs>I think that's the latest stretch
20:21<tlgl>ok so i see on the buster release notes to see also stretch>buster where would i find that?
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20:21<tlgl>would i need to download buster and replace it on my flash and there will be an upgrade option ?
20:22<dvs>tlgl, the release notes describes the upgrade option
20:22<tlgl>oh i see there is an arrow at the top to move between chapters lol
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20:55<tlgl>ok so i want to try out jidgo and it says to download the jidgo lite script but i am not sure where to get that from
21:02<tlgl>wow 16 dvds for complete ...
21:02<sarnold>those are probably not very useful :)
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21:03<tlgl>yes so i am going to just get the netinstall from the cd version from jidgo
21:03<tlgl>so there is a regular cd for net install or there is a edu for net install do i need the edu?
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21:04<sarnold>do you even need the cd etc? in the past I've always just changed one release name to another and done an apt update and dist-upgrade
21:04<sarnold>does that not work any more? or replaced with something else? (eg ubuntu's do-release-upgrade handles some changes 'outside' of the usual flow of package dependencies)
21:05<sarnold>or do you need media for some other reason?
21:05<tlgl>i am not sure this will be my first upgrade
21:05<tlgl>according to the release notes it told me to get the media
21:06<tlgl>but if there is an easier way of doing this as an in place upgrade let me know since i still haven't found the stretch>buster part of the guide yet
21:07<sarnold>this is very detailed
21:07<sarnold>and might be overkill for you
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21:10<tlgl>ok thanks i am going through it njow
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21:18<tlgl>i am wondering about upgrading my apt sources I opened the sources list but i am not sure what I need to add?
21:19<sarnold>if you see a bunch of 'stretch' lines try replacing all those instances with 'buster'
21:20<tlgl> so i clicked the buster link from the side is that correct to do?
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21:23<tlgl>so i went to cd /etc/apt/sources.list.d but I am not finding any files in the directory do I need to add it?
21:25<blast007>dpkg: stretch->buster
21:25<dpkg>Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove stable-specific lines like stretch-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade.
21:26<blast007>you should have an /etc/apt/sources.list file
21:26<tlgl>ok so if i have wine in my sources do i need to remove that as it was a 3rd party i had installed with eve online
21:27<blast007>does wine have a repo for buster?
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21:27<tlgl>i am not sure as it said that wine was not responding
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21:32<tlgl>ok it is upgrading now
21:32<tlgl>thanks for your help hopefully it doesn't error out lol
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21:44<tlgl>it did error out
21:45<tlgl>can i upgrade from the media ?
21:45<blast007>what command was that?
21:46<annadane>presumably apt install wine-staging
21:46<annadane>but yeah, include the command in your output...
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21:48<annadane>oh no wait sorry this is a buster update
21:48<annadane>1) yeah wine does have a repo for buster 2) i forget what the release notes say about 3rd party repos on upgrade
21:50<tlgl> i removed the 3rd party repo
21:50<tlgl>and i used apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade
21:50<somiaj>yea, has a fairly decent repo with packages built for debian. I would use that if you want to stay current on wine, though the version that comes shiped with debian works for most things.
21:51<annadane>wine also does get backported though obviously it won't be as fast as keeping up with winehq's
21:51<tlgl>it was erroring about the public key
21:51<tlgl>so i took it out
21:51<annadane>there's also wine-development in debian and i don't strictly understand what that is
21:51<tlgl>do i need to remove wine from the system also or just the winehq in the sources.list
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21:52<somiaj>annadane: wine has multiple branches, its stable branch and its development branch, debian provides both.
21:52<annadane>right but it's slightly more complicated than that, but discussing it is a bit off topic
21:52<somiaj>tlgl: depends on what packages you have installed and what they depend on. It could be the wine packages prevent things from upgrading due to their dependencies. I think you should be fine, but thrid party packages could add hickups to the upgrade.
21:53<tlgl> here is my sources.list
21:53<annadane>WINE is generally pretty good about this, i would assume if there are any problems then apt will tell you
21:53<somiaj>annadane: I don't see how it is more complicated, goto and see the two branches (the complicated is all the third party patches for games, like wine-staging, or wine-foo that includes vulcan, fixes for directx, etc that haven't been mered into wine proper)
21:54<sarnold>tlgl: ew. do you care about appstream? I'd probably just purge appstream and try again
21:54<tlgl>what is appstream?
21:55<sarnold>it provides icons and .. screenshots? for packages in graphical package management frontends, I think
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21:55<tlgl>ok so i tried apt-get purge AppStream and it said it could not find the package
21:55<tlgl>should i try with synaptics as it might find it
21:56<sarnold>try pureging appstream instead
21:56<sarnold>very few package names have capital letters
21:56<tlgl>if i remove it it removes gnome gdm3 etc
21:58<tlgl>or is purge something different then remove from synaptics?
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21:58<sarnold>then I guess you can try debugging the appstream failure? try running (as root) appstreamcli refresh-cache
21:59<tlgl>it said that update was not necesary
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22:05<tlgl>so my sources.list is ok then?
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22:07<sarnold>tlgl: oh I misased that
22:07<sarnold>tlgl: lines 10 and 11 look like they're still for stretch
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22:12<tlgl>oh shoot as i did apt update then apt upgrade and it is upgrading now
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22:15<tlgl>it is just downloading how would i cancel this ?
22:15<tlgl>i changed the two lines
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22:18<sqrt{not}>don't cancel it. let it finish, then redo it again with the new sources list
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22:29<sarnold>TLGL: Thu 17 02:18:19 < sqrt{not}> don't cancel it. let it finish, then redo it again with the new sources list
22:30<TLGL>ah i did cancel it and start again
22:30<TLGL>i disconnected a few times so im not sure if that went through or not
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 17 00:00:00 2019