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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-11-30

---Logopened Sat Nov 30 00:00:03 2019
00:00-!-preview_ [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined #debian
00:00-!-preview_ is "preview" on #debian
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00:29-!-Itsjustme is "realname" on #debian
00:29<Itsjustme>hello all. can someone tell me where I can go for MX Linux help or am I already there?
00:30<Itsjustme>join #MX
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00:33-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-meeting #debian-lts #debian
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00:56-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-meeting #debian-lts #debian
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03:48<parrot-1>ap kahase?
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03:53-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debconf-auditorio #debian #debconf-miniauditorio
03:54<dpkg>Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages Ask me about <based on debian> and <parrot-overnight>. If you are new to linux, try using Debian:
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04:22<ginab>Good morning, folks.
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04:27<ginab>What's the status of SELinux in the Debian project? Is it still of importance or has it been ditched in favour of AppArmor?
04:29<ginab>Where would I find the few who still work with SELinux?
04:29<ginab>In a Debian context, that is.
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07:31<Guest9153>hi guys, how do I auto-mute my hdmi speaker when I have my headphone jack connected?
07:36<Guest9153>i've tried to set "fallback" sink in pavucontrol, but it's not persistent and I have to change it everytime.. basically it's the same as manually switching between the 2 sinks
07:36<Guest9153>really appreciate some input here.. thanks
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08:11-!-lord_rob is "Robert Derochette" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
08:14<kathenas>It is always good when users don't stick around long enough for an answer - HDMI does not disconnect when headphones plugged in... and - So possibly fixed in 13.0, ut would need to be tested and then seeing if backporting is viable or allowable to stable.
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08:21<bremner>ginab: you can use the "who-uploads" (in devscripts) tool to see who uploads specific packages. It looks like Russel Coker and Laurent Bigonville are two people involved.
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10:08<sqrt{not}>This is a channel for Debian technical support
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10:51<ginab>bremner: Thanks.
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11:25<javi_>Hi! Is ddtp server down?
11:26<annadane>what is ddtp?
11:27<javi_>The platform used for packages description translation.
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11:36<annadane>um... maybe ask #debian-www?
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11:36<annadane>i guess i will
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11:42<javi_>annadane, thanks, will do.
11:42<annadane>javi_, i did already
11:42<annadane>but feel free to add info i suppose
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11:45<javi_>I asked #ddtp directly, I will let you know when I have an update.
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12:18<texou>javi_: yes ddtp is down
12:19<texou>ddtp is not supported by dsa team
12:19<texou>I hope they will dot some day
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12:23<javi_>Thanks, texou.
12:23<texou>ja it is reported, waiting for someone to reboot the machine
12:23<texou>javi_: it is reported, waiting for someone to reboot the machine
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12:24<javi_>I will try later, I have to finish some translations. Thanks!
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12:33<dunce>hey guys, im having an issue installing
12:34<sney>what kind of problem?
12:34<dunce>i have no clue why, but my hard drive isnt detected in the net installer
12:35<sney>what kind of system is this?
12:35<dunce>its that and my wifi card isnt detected despite me adding the firmware .deb's to the firmware folder in the bootable usb, AND I also unpacked the deb and put the .ucodes in the folder. i did a ton of research, some of the ucodes they ask for dont even exist
12:35<dunce>its a dell inspiron
12:35<dunce>dell inspiron 13 7000
12:36<sney>is it a special disk like a NVME? any new/high end components that you're aware of?
12:36<dunce>im not sure. is there any way i can check?
12:37<dunce>sorry, i havent used linux in years. i had a thinkpad x230 running gentoo a few years ago but ive became linux illiterate since then
12:37<sney>google says that model does use a nvme ssd
12:38<dunce>yeah it seems so
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12:39<sney>go into the efi bios and see if you can change the sata mode, apparently some dells have an issue with this. ahci or ata mode should work
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12:40<dunce>will do. ill try that out and come back with results
12:40<dunce>thanks so much i appreciate the help
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12:52<dunce>yo im back
12:52<sqrt{not}>any better now ?
12:52<dunce>did not work unfortunately. i changed it to ahci and disabled secure boot (just for the sake of) and no luck. all it did was make windows unbootablle
12:52<dunce>but yes it seemed that other dell users had that issue but all it did was brick windows
12:53<dunce>this is a bummer
12:53<sqrt{not}>dunce: when you talk about adding to the folders, and unpacking the bootable stick, are you using unetbootin or other windows tool ?
12:54<dunce>this is a new ISO, i tried adding firmware to a live cd but i need the netinst
12:54<dunce>i used rufus
12:54<sqrt{not}>that is probably your problem right there
12:54<sqrt{not}>you can download a netinst that has the firmware already on it.
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12:55<dunce>im trying right now with the firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso
12:55<sney>rufus unpacks the installer and messes with it, it can cause problems. the netinst is already a flash drive image, you can write it directly with win32imagewriter
12:55<towo`>dunce, don't use rufus
12:56<dunce>okay, any reason why? curious
12:56<dunce>downloading unet right now
12:56<grawity>if you use rufus, make sure to choose "DD mode" when it prompts you for that
12:56<sqrt{not}>look at this image: java*8
12:56<grawity>then it'll result in a 1:1 copy
12:57<sqrt{not}>this image has the firmware on it already, just copy it straight to the USB
12:57<dunce>sqrt, is that the one for testing?
12:57<dunce>ok cool!
12:57<sqrt{not}>ahh, ok , no use the firmware testing, the one I gave is for stable
12:57<sney>!testing installer
12:57<dunce>just for future refrence, is there a difference between cd-including-firmware and images-including-firmware
12:57<dpkg>Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage.
12:58<dunce>should i repeat that
12:59<dunce>PERFECT!!! so im gonna use the iso you gave me sqrt then go to testing. sounds about right?
12:59<sqrt{not}>sorry, yes, do use the image I suggested, then if you need testing, follow dpkg advice
12:59<nvz>Pete and Repeat were on a boat, Pete fell off, who's left?
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13:08<nvz>btw if you are being pedantic about use of the term "cd" then you got a lot of work to do.. cause the installer calls it a cd regardless of how you are actually doing things..
13:09<nvz>and not only would you have to write some means of detecting what the actual media is, but get it into the installer and make all the changes
13:09<nvz>its like wireless companies saying they're selling you "lines"
13:09<nvz>there just isnt a more suitable term people understand
13:10<nvz>be glad we're not still calling it a floppy
13:10<dunce>i dont think im being pedantic, id just rather have minimal/no uncertainty on anything that im doing w the install
13:10<dunce>i guess im just being paranoid i used to use gentoo so every tiny detail i was sure to pay attention to every detail
13:10<nvz>technically speaking the ISO while it is an image, when mounted or used by a computer in most any way, is seen as a cd regardless
13:11<dunce>ive just never used debian so i want to make sure i have no mistakes
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13:11<nvz>fair enough
13:11<dunce>okay, im going to try this install
13:11<dunce>wish me luck!
13:11<nvz>dunce: as a user of nearly 20 years, I can tell you this.. Debian is WIDHE compliant
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13:12<dunce>ahaha, good to hear
13:12<nvz>anything destructive requires more than pressing enter
13:12<dunce>yeah i havent used any widhe in a while. i went totally autismo after i went into arch then into void then into gentoo then into openbsd
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13:13<nvz>aside from maybe the confirmation to write changes to disk in the partitioner (no is default) you can basically install by just pressing enter repeatedly
13:13<nvz>and the entry of a user password which is required
13:13<dunce>mhm. id say gentoo was the biggest pain, i was using hardened gentoo (WHICH WAS DISCONTINUED) and i was completely obsessed with kernel configuration for security
13:13<dunce>all my useflags had to be super specific lol
13:13<dunce>lots of breaks
13:14<nvz>yeah well debian is a binary distro whose priorities are stability and freedom for the most part.. so you can still get into details if you like, but its not setup to be that way as a requirement
13:14<dunce>thats why im going to debian. i dont want a completely bloated distro, but i dont want an obscure impractical
13:14<dunce>okay, im gonna try and install. will be back with results.
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13:20<dunce>unetbootin apparently doesent work. gonna use rufus with dd
13:20<dunce>didnt show up as a boot option
13:20<dunce>should partition scheme be gpt or mbr
13:21<dunce>ima do mbr
13:21<sney>these utilities that screw with the partitions etc of the installer only make things worse
13:21<sney>hopefully that dd mode ignores your gpt/mbr selection
13:22<sqrt{not}>no, no unetbootin, not rufus
13:22<dunce>I meant for the bootable USB, the partition scheme for the usb
13:22<sney> is the correct tool to use
13:22<dunce>okay (?)
13:22<sqrt{not}>maybe unetbootin dd,
13:22<dunce>wow sourceforge i forgot about that
13:22<dpkg>UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
13:22<sqrt{not}>try that one the win32diskimager
13:22<dpkg>rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
13:22<dunce>oh i see
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13:23<dunce>haha i have like 5 different writing softwares now
13:23<nvz>the release notes and install guide both say as much
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13:23<sqrt{not}>when you have some working linux, then you can just use dd
13:23<nvz>if you're on linux you need nothing special.. cp will work fine for a thumbdrive or such
13:24<nvz>dd isn't even necessary
13:24<sqrt{not}>right or even cp
13:24<sney>debian sort of buries the lede about the images being hybrid isos, so it's common that new users don't know
13:24<dpkg>win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details.
13:24<sney>if running the mirrors was up to me, I'd probably include a second copy of the same netinst image with an .img extension
13:25<nvz>cp debian.iso /dev/sdc
13:25<nvz>or whatever your iso and device of your thumbdrive is
13:25<dunce>!usb install
13:25<dpkg>You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. Use to write images from Windows. For BIOSes not capable of USB boot, ask me about <plop>.
13:25<nvz>I wrote a tool for this actually :P
13:25<sney>!msg the bot
13:25<dpkg>Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at . Also ask me about <judd>, which is another bot and window into the Ultimate Debian Database.
13:25<dunce>oh i see
13:25<dunce>sorry lol
13:26<dunce>okay win32 wrote it
13:26<dunce>lets try this again
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13:26<nvz>very simple bash/zentiy writer I wrote
13:27<nvz>requires bash and zenity of course :P
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13:38<dunce>hey guys
13:38<dunce>well, i successfully booted into the cd
13:38<dunce>partition disk still only shows the damn sands cruiser usb. no hard drive. I'm in the install now, any suggestions?
13:39<nvz>dunce: what other kind of disk is there?
13:40<nvz>and fwiw I checked when someone asked not long ago of the two kinds of drives I had and the PNY drives were faster than the sandisk ones
13:45<dunce>nvz: an ssd
13:45<dunce>im trying to dual boot debian and my current windows install
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13:45<nvz>dunce: what kind of ssd? is it a 2.5in sata? m.2?
13:46<sney>nvme according to the manufacturer
13:46<dunce>dell inspiron 13 7000
13:46<sney>dunce are you sure the installer was booted in efi mode?
13:46<nvz>I'm just trying to get a clear picture of why it might not be working
13:47<dunce>i don't know if it did. the installer did boot so something works
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13:49<dunce>i dont know what to do
13:49<nvz>yeah.. did oyu use the testing installer?
13:50<dunce>nope the official one
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13:50<dunce>should i execute a shell?
13:50<nvz>yeah that has 4.19 kernel on it.. might be too old to support something in there related to the disk
13:50<nvz>dunce: you could drop into the shell with ctrl+alt+f2 or w/e and check dmesg look for any clues
13:51<nvz>but as its fairly new hw my first thought would be to boot a new kernel
13:51<nvz>buster-backports, bullseye, and sid all have a 5.3 kernel
13:51<dunce>ill do that
13:51<dunce>bullseye is testing right?
13:52<dunce>okay. gonna get bullseye-firmware
13:52<nvz>I dont know offhand of any images for stable with the backport kernel
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13:53<nvz>cause naturally we'd recommend stable here.. but.. if the 5.3 kernel detects your disk and the 4.19 doesnt.. and you can't very easily get the 5.3 kernel during install.. then.. thats a problem
13:53<nvz>but just trying the testing installer would tell us if thats the issue or not
13:53<nvz>if you see the disk in the testing installer we could brainstorm on options from there if you want to go stable
13:53<nvz>cause you could always use a different method of install or something
13:54<nvz>in all my years I never had the need for a newer kernel during the install.. many times had hw that wasnt working but never anything crucial to the install
13:55<dunce>how about this. im going to try to get the bullseye netinst, from /cdimage/unnoficial/non-free/cd-including-fiermware/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd
13:55<nvz>and its real simple to get 5.3 in stable AFTER install
13:55<dunce>and im gonna try to do that
13:55<sqrt{not}>dunce: did you change the boot option from whatever it was set to when you boot windows ?
13:55<sqrt{not}>either UEFI or MBR-DOS style ?
13:55<dunce>no, ill change it back to the non-RAID option and secure boot off again
13:55<dunce>oh its uefi
13:55<dunce>its default uefi
13:56<sqrt{not}>is that the way the existing windows will boot ?
13:56<dunce>the way windows default boots is secure boot on and RAID
13:56<dunce>boots without secure boot, doesn't boot without RAID
13:56<sqrt{not}>is the disk you want to use the same one you use in windows ?
13:57<nvz>I'm certain we have info on making custom installer images though I'm not familiar with it.. I'd do a debootstrap/chroot install myself
13:57<sqrt{not}>you want to repartition that one now
13:57<nvz>perhaps from a testing live
13:57<dunce>ill report its ow
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13:57<nvz>but first need to know if its just a matter of the kernel thats the problem
13:57<sqrt{not}>you should use exactly the same boot parameters then for booting the installer as you use for windows
13:57<dunce>okay, its at the default right now so I’ll leave it
13:58<dunce>im repartitioning the free space rn one sec
13:58<sqrt{not}>ah, so it is working now ?
13:58<dunce>oh no im in windows
13:58<dunce>using disk management in windows
13:58<dunce>shrinking volume
13:59<sqrt{not}>OK, I'm just suggesting do not change any BIOS boot options from what works for windows, then boot the installer USB
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13:59<dunce>ok i will not change bios boot
14:00<dunce>alright cool. disk 0 now has a 125GB unallocated slot
14:01<dunce>im writing the firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso to the usb now
14:01<nvz>dunce: you don't plan on accessing the windows partition from linux do you?
14:01<dunce>no i do notr
14:01<dunce>not one bit
14:02<nvz>good.. reading is fine, but really new windows ntfs can get corrupted on writes
14:02<GyrosGeier>I sometimes read the bluetooth keys from the Windows registry and add them on the Linux side
14:02<GyrosGeier>so both can use the same pairing
14:02<nvz>I always recommend if people are going to do much writing to modern NTFS that they create the NTFS volume using linux tools
14:02<dunce>okay detecting and mounting installation media
14:02<nvz>so the features of the FS match up
14:02<dunce>lets see if this works!!!!!
14:02<dunce>i have hope
14:03<dunce>jesus my lips taste like isopropyl alcohol
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14:03<dunce>Holy fuck guys this actually worked
14:03<dunce>Somehow the wifi issue got fixed too??
14:03<nvz>its not magic, its a kernel that isn't older than your HW :P
14:03<sqrt{not}>probably because you have the firmware now
14:04<dunce>yeah, the thing is that i tried this exact same ISO with unetbootin and roofus
14:04<dunce>rufus lol
14:04<dunce>the win32 made it work apparently
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14:04<nvz>yeah well as I said before, the release notes and install guide specifically say not to use those, to use win32diskimager
14:05<nvz>those are tools from another era not mindful of the fact our images are already hybrid images
14:05<dunce>is it OK if my root psk and my user ask are the same
14:05<dunce>like does it really matter
14:05<nvz>they're ready to be written verbatim, not modified
14:05<nvz>dunce: just dont set a root password
14:05<dunce>why not?
14:06<blast007>dunce: if you don't set a root password, it'll just install the sudo package and make it so the first use can use sudo
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14:06<dunce>ah i see
14:06<nvz>dunce: yes, if you dont set a root password it will install and configure sudo so you can access the root account
14:06<nvz>no need to set the password the same.. the root account won't be able to login, you'll just use sudo su
14:06<dunce>disk detection time guys
14:06<dunce>lets see if it worked
14:07<dunce>God damn it
14:07<dunce>Still only the sands cruiser
14:07<dunce>Only SCSI2 (0,0,0) (sea)
14:07<nvz>idk I have both an m.2 ssd in my WWAN port and a sata one in my sata port and they both work on the 4.19 kernel
14:07<dunce>I can execute a shell from the installer
14:07<dunce>im in the shell now
14:08<nvz>but my machine is 2013 era yours is much newer
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14:08<nvz>you may have something in there that the kernel doesn't support
14:08<dunce>how can i find out? im in shell now
14:08<nvz>you can find out by trying another kernel.. heh
14:09<nvz>you can read through dmesg and look for any clues but there might not be any
14:09<dunce>maybe, i can reformat the unallocated & undetected partition to the same format that the unallocated DETECTED partition, no?
14:09<nvz>uh.. what?
14:09<nvz>you seem to be saying its not seeing the disk AT ALL
14:09<dunce>its not
14:09<dunce>oh yeah lol
14:09<dunce>no disk at all
14:10<nvz>its not seeing the disk.. dmesg might at least tell you if it picked up the bus its on, and if its got any errors
14:10<nvz>but personally I'd just try a newer kernel first and see if it works there
14:11<nvz>and I'd proceed to install stable via chroot/debootstrap from a live installer for testing..
14:11<dunce>let me see lspci
14:12<dunce>i dont see it, but i also dont know what to look for
14:12<dunce>how do i try a new kernel
14:12<nvz>really if your intending to install stable and not testing, which is as I said what we'd recommend.. you should just get a testing live with firmware
14:12<nvz>see if you can see the disk from there.. then you can debootstrap stable and install the 5.3 kernel from backports
14:12<dunce>i tried that, and i am intending to install testing
14:13<dunce>the thing is that i need the minimal install
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14:14<mya>Is anyone there?
14:14<dunce>will try again
14:14<nvz>dunce: you need the minimal install? what does that mean?
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14:14<dunce>i mean doesn't live install with the DE and WM and everythign
14:14<dunce>and all the extra packages
14:14<dunce>wait no
14:14<dunce>that's not true nevermind
14:14<nvz>dunce: I'm not telling you to live install
14:14<dunce>yeah i know
14:15<dunce>i just understood that
14:15<nvz>I'm telling you to perhaps use the live to debootstrap the hdd
14:15<nvz>debootstrap installs even less than the most base intall any of our installers would do
14:15<nvz>doesn't even install a kernel or grub
14:16<dunce>ah, nice
14:16<nvz>it'd be easier to just install testing if the testing kernel works.. but testing is a long way from releasing and may cause you issues you may not want to deal with and will be beyond the scope of /this/ channel
14:16<dunce>do you think stable is just the better way to go?
14:16<nvz>and if you used gentoo I would imagine you can handle a debootstrap/chroot install
14:16<blast007>this may also be an option: (last I used it, it offered to install either stable, testing, or sid, though you'd want to make sure it used to release name and not "stable" in the installed apt sources.list)
14:16<dunce>yeah, im sure i could but as i said it has literally been 3/4 years
14:16<blast007>used the*
14:17<dunce>oh cool, thanks blast ill take al look after i try this out
14:17<dunce>okay im going to download the debian-live-testing-amd64-xfce
14:17<dunce>and see
14:17<nvz>dunce: you'd just use gparted or whatever in the live testing image to create the filesystems/partitions as needed, mount the root partition, run debootstrap on it then chroot into it to complete setup
14:18<nvz>dunce: which at minimum would require adding the backports mirror, installing the kernel and grub
14:18<blast007>note that the mini.iso wouldn't have firmware, so you might need to supply that if you need it for networking
14:18<nvz>blast007: now you're going a bit too far.. you're here in a stable support channel recommending using sid
14:19<nvz>I'm just saying for testing purposes, try testing which has the same kernel.. and if that kernel works, one method is a chroot install of stable from the testing live
14:19<nvz>you can also if the 5.3 kernel works make a custom installer for stable with a newer kernel
14:20<nvz>but I personally have experience with chroot installs and not with making custom installers
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14:20<blast007>nvz: it'd be using sid stuff for the installer, but it can install stable
14:21<nvz>blast007: ah right.. you're saying to an advanced install and install stable with sid installer
14:21<dunce>debian-live-testing-amd64-standard+nonfree.iso writing to the drive right now, will notify how it works
14:21<nvz>I've not done that either..
14:21<nvz>but that is probably actually less work than either methods I had in mind
14:21<blast007>yeah. I think that installer specifically asks for the release even without doing an expert mode install.
14:21<nvz>idk I haven't tried a sid installer.. I always just install stable and upgrade from there if need be
14:22*nvz checks and sees in a VM
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14:23<dunce>launching debian-gnu-linux-live from grub
14:23*nvz is booted into the link blast007 in a vm at configure network step
14:23<dunce>blank tty with _ in the top left corner, okay
14:23<dunce>very interesting
14:23<nvz>it asked for the mirror.. and its now loading additional components..
14:23<dunce>okay its frozen. perfect.
14:24<dunce>god damn it this bricked my computer
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14:24<nvz>you certain of that?
14:24<dunce>i can't switch TTY's and its not registering the off button
14:24<dunce>i just have to wait until my laptop dies
14:24<dunce>> tfw it was on 100%
14:24<GyrosGeier>four seconds power button
14:24<nvz>holding a power button in forces power off
14:25*GyrosGeier was on the committee that decided this
14:25<dunce>nope nothing'
14:25<dunce>damn it
14:25<bremner>removable batteries ftw
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14:25<dunce>maybe if i pour water on it
14:25<nvz>dunce: do you have a printscr button?
14:25<GyrosGeier>Microsoft asked for that to be removed because they claimed that Windows 98 was stable enough that it wasn't needed.
14:25<dunce>no i dont
14:25<dunce>im gonna take the battery out
14:26<dunce>its okay i got it
14:26<dunce>im gonna unscrew some stuff
14:26<nvz>PrtScr its labeled sometimes
14:26<blast007>never had a computer that I couldn't force off by holding the power button
14:26<nvz>mine is between my right ctrl and alt
14:26<GyrosGeier>no text output just means the kernel was started with the "quiet" argument
14:26<dunce>oh it just turned off
14:26<blast007>dunce: it heard you were getting a screwdriver and decided to behave ;)
14:27<dunce>ahaha yeah
14:27<dunce>okay booted back into gnu grub. there's debian gnu live, live with localization, graphical installer, debian installer. which should i pick
14:27<nvz>blast007: idk but I got through choose a mirror to the partitioning without it prompting about which release
14:27<dunce>guys im sorry for being so stupid
14:27<GyrosGeier>do current kernels have a poweroff on panic feature?
14:27<gekketinus>just installed linux mx in virtual machine :) think i am going to format and make it real :)
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14:27<GyrosGeier>kernel panic has a 180 second timer IIRC
14:27<blast007>nvz: it's probably after partitioning, where it would start to install software, but I can't guarantee it still behaves the same
14:27<GyrosGeier>so booting without "quiet" would show what is wrong
14:27<blast007>it's been a while since I tried that iso
14:27<dunce>should i do debian installer/graphical installer/live with localization/debian live
14:28<dunce>debian live standard is what broke that
14:28<dunce>rather, what made computer freeze
14:28<GyrosGeier>dunce, either boot normally but without the "quiet" option so you get error messages, or use "rescue mode"
14:28<dunce>removing quiet param now
14:29<Ty>Hi, I'm not really sure where I should ask this but, I'm trying to get ckermit on my debian buster install but It's not available for buster, only stretch and jessie
14:29<nvz>blast007: nope, goes straight to fetching the base packages
14:29<GyrosGeier>probably will end in "kernel panic: unable to mount root fs" -- if so, then we know more
14:29<GyrosGeier>if not, that is a more serious problem
14:29<dunce>quiet has been disabled lads
14:29<dunce>we are stuck at usbcore:registered new device driver usb
14:30<bremner>Ty: can you substitute gkermit? that's in stable
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14:30<dunce>hm. freezes at usbcore
14:30<dunce>won't move past it
14:30<nvz>blast007: expert mode asks though
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14:31<dunce>any ideas?
14:32<bremner>Ty: you're better off talking to the channel.
14:32<bremner>I'm no kermit expert
14:32<Ty>Fair enough
14:32<dunce>okay well now laptop is actually broken its stuck at usbcore and power button won't work
14:32<nvz>I don't think flavor is the right word for it though.. cause it doesn't come in chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry..
14:33-!-torkel104 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:33<nvz>and while I haven't TASTED them, I'm pretty sure stable, testing, and unstable all taste the same
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14:33<nvz>,v ckermit
14:33<judd>Package: ckermit on amd64 -- jessie: 302-5; stretch: 302-5.3+deb9u1
14:34<dunce>help pl0x
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14:34<dunce>need assistance
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14:34<Ty>Is there a ckermit for buster?
14:34<nvz>dpkg, why is ckermit not in testing?
14:34<dpkg>ckermit is not in testing for the reasons listed in
14:35<bremner>it was removed from unstable
14:35<dunce>okay update: i removed quiet and added rescue mode and now we moved past usbcore. stuck at usb usb1: serial number
14:35<dunce>i will literally give btc to whoever cab aid me w this
14:36<judd>Bug in (closed): «RM: ckermit -- RoQA; Unmaintained, multiple RC bugs»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-02-01; last modified: 2019-03-02.
14:36<nvz>,depends ckermit
14:36<judd>No package named 'ckermit' was found in buster/amd64.
14:36<nvz>,depends ckermit --release stretch
14:36<judd>Package ckermit in stretch/amd64 -- depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libc6 (>= 2.15), libcomerr2 (>= 1.01), libgssapi-krb5-2 (>= 1.14+dfsg), libk5crypto3 (>= 1.6.dfsg.2), libkrb5-3 (>= 1.13~alpha1+dfsg), libncurses5 (>= 6), libpam0g (>=, libssl1.0.2 (>= 1.0.2d), libtinfo5 (>= 6),debconf (>= 0.2.17).
14:37<nvz>Ty: its buggy and unmaintained but offhand I see no reason the stretch backage wouldn't work in buster unless one of those >= versioned packages also doesnt exist
14:37<nvz>and they all look like ones that would still exist
14:37<Ty>I'll try to install it
14:38-!-dunce [~oftc-webi@2604:2000:1484:c304:b41f:12ff:d4da:4ff] has left #debian []
14:39<nvz>Ty: just fetch it from and instlal it with apt or gdebi
14:39<nvz>apt install ckermit_302-5.3+deb9u1_amd64.deb
14:40<nvz>gdebi ckermit_302-5.3+deb9u1_amd64.deb
14:40<nvz>Ty: and I'd highly advise you rethink whatever workflow requires this as using old unmaintained buggy packages is a problem that will only get worse
14:41<Ty>Transferring a file to a ms-dos machine
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14:42<nvz>is one of a few things it shows as similar packages to ckermit on p.d.o
14:42<nvz>and its still in debian
14:42<dunce>can y'all hear me
14:43<dunce>or read me*
14:43<Ty>The ms-dos computer vterm only supports kermit protocol and ascii
14:43<nvz>dpkg: yes, we just have no idea what you're needing at this point
14:43<dpkg>nvz: bugger all, i dunno
14:43<nvz>dunce: even
14:43<aloo_shu>dunce: yes
14:43<nvz>Ty: ah well, did that install cleanly for you then?
14:44<dunce>okay , i really need help with this
14:44<Ty>nvz: "Dependency is not satisfiable: libssl1.0.2 (>= 1.0.2d)"
14:44<nvz>Ty: ah.. perhaps you could compile it against the libssl in buster
14:45<nvz>Ty: my next suggestion would be to use the ssb method to foward-port it
14:45<nvz>sosb.. heh.. I should make a factoid for that
14:45<nvz>simple old stable forwardport (sosf I guess it'd be)
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14:46<nvz>I've done such things when I wanted to tool with something that doesnt exist anymore
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14:46<nvz>Ty: you could also just debootstrap a dir with stretch and run it from a chroot
14:47<nvz>one is just about as easy as the other
14:47<nvz>the chroot method however would prob require binding of various things inside the chroot for it to function since it seems to require access to the hw
14:47<aloo_shu>just, 'debian broke my washing mashine' won't get you attention, I'm afraid , dunce, and if I'd know a good solution, I'd help
14:48<dunce>okay yeah im sorry. basically the issue is that debian netinst won't detect my hard drive at all.
14:48<dunce>thats the problem here.
14:49<dunce>hm. interesting so i tried a different ISO and we have some progress, its saying "the current kernel doesn't support RAID." which is better than nothing at all. this iso doesn't have any of the kernel modules though
14:49<nvz>aloo_shu: pcie ssd on a dell inspiron 13 7000 not showing up in netinst and apparently my recommendation to try a testing media with a 5.3 kernel is not booting
14:49<nvz>aloo_shu: to catch you up on dunce's issue
14:50<aloo_shu>dunce these are general notes, but the approaches I could see, would be googling your computer model and checking if it has exotic usb hardware wanting exotic drivers, or booting into single user or rescue (somebody else would have to tell you how, but it's not harder than turning off quiet) and once booted
14:50<aloo_shu>nvz ah right, I had seen that, but forgotten
14:50<nvz>aloo_shu: has win10 I guess, wants to dual-boot..
14:51<dunce>nvz: update ... partition disks NOW SHOWS my disk!!! EXCEPT, this ISO says it has no kernel modules and it doesn't have wifi
14:51<Ty>So where should I start
14:51<nvz>dunce: which media is showing the disk now?
14:51<nvz>dunce: the testing live?
14:51<Ty>If i use the chroot method do I need to chroot every time I need to use ckermit?
14:51<dunce>testing live, yes
14:52<dunce>but although this one shows the disk it doesn't have any drivers/firmware/kernel modules
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14:52<nvz>Ty: not necessarily.. there is something called schroot which makes running things in a schroot rather simple once configured to recognize your schroot works kinda like a sudo command
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14:52<nvz>Ty: iirc it can even be setup to automatically bind the stuff you'll need like /proc /sys and /dev
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14:52<nvz>,i schroot
14:52<judd>Package schroot (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Execute commands in a chroot environment. Version: 1.6.10-6+b1; Size: 777.2k; Installed: 2728k; Homepage:; O: #900874
14:52<dunce>nvz: but although this one shows the disk it doesn't have any drivers/firmware/kernel modules
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14:53<nvz>dunce: thats all you'd need to install is see the disk.. you can fix the rest later
14:53<dunce>okay, so i should install off that for now?
14:53<Ty>nvz: libssl is probably compatible, could I edit the deb file and increase the supported version and cross my fingers?
14:54<aloo_shu>dunce some modules missing isn't the same as 'doesn't have any', and can often be helped, i.e. found, downloaded, and added at install time, but again, you'll want somebody else to walk you through it
14:54<nvz>dunce: its just a matter of how you'd like to proceed.. the debootstrap/chroot is what I'm most familiar with, but as blast007 pointed out you could use a normal testing or sid installer that has that same kernel and choose expert install mode which will prompt you which release you want where you could then choose stable
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14:54<nvz>dunce: the installing from expert on a normal testing/unstable media would be simpler by far
14:55<nvz>you'd need only add in the 5.3 kernel if it doesnt already install it
14:55<nvz>I didnt go all the way through in my vm to see if it installs the sid kernel when installing stable from the sid image
14:55<nvz>I'd imagine you'd still have to enable backports and install the backport 5.3 kernel before booting
14:55<dunce>okay, i can do that then. my oly question is how do i add in the kernel
14:55<dunce>oh ok
14:56<nvz>dunce: backports is as simple as adding the backports mirror to /etc/apt/sources.list then doing apt -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64
14:56<nvz>well after doing apt update of course
14:56<dunce>"no kernel modules were found. this probably is due to a mismatch between the kernel used by the installer and the available version" blah blah blah. will ignore it
14:56<nvz>you'd chroot into the install from the shell while still into the installer to do that
14:57<GyrosGeier>dunce, yes, you can't do much but ignore that
14:57<nvz>dunce: so you could just write yourself a testing or unstable installer media if you wanna do that
14:57<dunce>" a driver for your hardware is not available"
14:57<dunce>will ignore it
14:57<nvz>dunce: choose expert mode from the advanced options menu when you see grub
14:57<Ty>Nevermind, libssl 1.0.0 and libssl 1.0.2 are incompatible
14:57<dunce>will do. brb
14:57<nvz>dunce: that will cause it to prompt you so you can select stable
14:57<dunce>there is no expert ode on this ISO though
14:57<dunce>i have to use the non-live ne
14:57<dunce>non live one*
14:58<nvz>that should suffice
14:58<dunce>will brb
14:59<nvz>apparently your disk is not supported in the 4.19 kernel
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15:02<nvz>I should probably test this out for future reference of a simple way to get a newer kernel at install time and stay with stable
15:02<nvz>seems way simpler than making a custom media or debootstrap install
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15:05<aloo_shu>I apply for a symbolic fraction of the bitcoin :)
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15:07<nvz>someone offered me $5 on freenode yesterday.. I didnt take them up on the offer
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15:08*nvz would pickup a $5 bill off the ground but not particularly concerned about $5 for volunteer support
15:09<aloo_shu>I could definitely need some cash, but I can see how fiding good general guidelines for personal donations in the context of FLOSS support would be tricky
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15:20<dunce>Ok guys we've made a ton of progress
15:20<dunce>a TON. so the INSTALLER is not showing my disk, but in tty2, fdisk -l shows my disk
15:22<dunce>nvme0n1p3 is the disk i want to use, but I need to partition it
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15:25<dunce>how can i modify the partition/disk in TTY fdisk for the installer?
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15:26<sqrt{not}>dunce: tell us about this RAID setup you mentioned earlier.
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15:26<sqrt{not}>dunce: is it "hardware" raid, intel style raid ?
15:27<dunce>intel style raid
15:27<dunce>but look im getting somewhere right here. the install is going fine but the installer doesn't show disk, so i went into tty2 and disk shows /dev/nvme0n1.... however, when i try to mount it it says cant find /dev/nvme{} in /etc/fstab
15:27<sqrt{not}>is that necessary ? I've heard of it causing problems with debian installer
15:28<dunce>yeah, because if i dont do that i cant get into my windows
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15:29<dunce>yeah fdisk -l shows /dev/nvme0n1p3 which is what i want to split and use for the install. suggestions?
15:30<sqrt{not}>dunce: maybe look at this:
15:30<dunce>wait, can i add /dev/nvme0n1p3 to fstab
15:30<dunce>ok ill try that
15:31<sqrt{not}>that web page suggests adding dmraid=true to the installer boot line, maybe it would help your installer find this raid
15:32<dunce>uh ohh, i broke windows
15:32<dunce>god damn it messing with parted i accidentally pressed fix for one of the things
15:32<dunce>and now windows is attempting repairs
15:33<sqrt{not}>OK, let me know if you decide to try my suggestion about the raid. I'm tuning out otherwise
15:33<dunce>im going to let you know
15:33<dunce>just trying to fix windows rn give me 5 mins ill ping you
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16:52<matoh>open connection
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16:54<dunce>hey y'all. debian installed fine after everythimg
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16:54<dunce>well, not really. its hanging on bootup, im using grub. its hanging on
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16:55<dunce>intel-less enabling device (0000 -> 0002)
16:55<dunce>its hanging on there on the kernel boot i dont know what to do about it
16:58<dunce>yeah i trying to boot in recovery mode too no luck
16:58<dunce>it freezes every boot sometimes on different things
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16:59<dunce>sakax hello
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17:00<dunce>i really need some help here
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17:07<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
17:08<sakax>ask your question, someone will help
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17:20<dunce>hey guys sorry my computer died
17:20<dunce>but as i was saying i installed debian but grub cant boot into it, it hangs with the kernel stuff up
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17:21<dunce>it freezes, it doesent even let me turn the computer off, cant switch tty, nothing. it seems to hang most often on one of two things: SCSI Subsystem Initialized or intel-lpss
17:22<dunce>i really need some help with this. i dont know what to do about it at all
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17:28<dunce>hey czesmir_
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18:01<Flash>hey sup
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18:02<Guest9180>anyone in here??
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18:09<yeo>hey guys
18:10<yeo>is anyone on
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18:10<yeo>can someone help me w something
18:10<pastly>ask your real question and if someone can help, they will
18:11<yeo>its this
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18:15<nvz>when questions start coming in form of reddits, I quit
18:15<yeo>haha sorry i just didnt wanna rewrite it
18:16<yeo>on grub boot it freezes, it doesent even let me turn the computer off, cant switch tty, nothing. it seems to hang most often on one of two things: SCSI Subsystem Initialized or intel-lpss...
18:16<yeo>I dont know what to do about it at all. I dont know what made it happen or anything. From the debian USB, I can get into the install through the recovery mode execute shell, but grub isnt having it. Thanks so much.
18:16<nvz>you are all kinds of confusing
18:16<nvz>grub has nothing to do with any of that
18:17<nvz>all grub does is load a kernel and initrd image into memory and hand off
18:18<nvz>you also can't switch tty if there aren't ttys to switch to
18:18<yeo>kernel freezes then
18:18<nvz>that happens later in bootup
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18:19<yeo>ah i see
18:19<nvz>I dont consider a kernel frozen based upon anything on the screen for one thing
18:20<nvz>I consider a machine hung when the keyboard leds wont toggle, it won't respond to a sysrq..
18:20<yeo>okay im sorry i just dont know very well
18:21<nvz>yeo: are you the dunce we were talking to earlier? :P
18:21<yeo>i am a dunce
18:21<yeo>i am more just a dunec
18:21<yeo>i am dunce
18:21<nvz>yeo: did you install the 5.3 kernel like I'd told you?
18:22<nvz>cause as I recall we'd determined that the 4.19 kernel doesnt support your disk.. and the install media has a 5.x kernel
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18:22<nvz>did you install buster from the sid media and the buster-backport kernel as we discussed earlier?
18:24<yeo>i ended up just using the testing nonfree iso
18:24<yeo>worked fine
18:25<nvz>I'm going to need you to answer my questions as specific as I ask them to be of any help here..
18:25<nvz>did you use the expert mode and install buster with that as we discussed
18:25<nvz>cause right now I have no clue at all what you got going on there
18:25<yeo>yes i did use the expert mode to install bullseye
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18:26<nvz>ok, well installing bullseye is testing, which has 5.3 kernel and didnt need expert mode cause it was already a bullseye media.. and bullseye isn't supported here
18:26<nvz>this is what I was trying to convey when I was telling you to use stable
18:26<jhutchins>nvz: Yes it is, just not as well or as much for testing-specific problems. For general problems here is fine.
18:27<nvz>but if thats the case and you have 5.3 then I have absolutely no idea what the issue is
18:27<nvz>I assumed perhaps the issue was that you had installed stable and not the backports kernel
18:27<yeo>i tried stable, it didnt work so the i tried bullseye WITH the expert mode to configure some stuff
18:27<nvz>hence why the installer boots and the installed system doesnt
18:27<yeo>the system can be accessed thru the debian usb
18:27<yeo>i chose the 5.3 kernel and stuff
18:27<yeo>i jsut dont know what to do right now
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18:28<nvz>me either.. I have absolutely no experience with bullseye and I can't fathom why that install media boots and the installed system doesnt
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18:29<jhutchins>nvz: Graphics drivers?
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18:29<yeo>grub will load into debian but freezes
18:29<yeo>i dont have a DE or WM installed yet
18:29<nvz>jhutchins: it seemed form earlier that his disk wasnt supported by 4.19 it wasnt showing up in partitioner
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18:29<nvz>jhutchins: but it probably would've had other issues too with that kernel but that was the main issue
18:29<nvz>jhutchins: its some kind of pcie nvme in some fairly recent dell laptop
18:30<jhutchins>noapi? noapic?
18:30<nvz>and graphics can halt your system way before a GUI is installed or loaded.. nvidia proved that time and time again for us
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18:31<dpkg>Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter.
18:31<nvz>so your implication no DE installed rules out graphics isn't really something I'd rely on
18:31<yeo>i dont even know if i have xorg
18:31<nvz>jhutchins: I think from what little I could gather online based on their model, it was a fairly recent ryzen
18:32<yeo>mine has integrated graphics
18:32<jhutchins>yeo: It could still be trying to go to framebuffer mode.
18:32<nvz>jhutchins: dell inspiron 13 7000 is what they'd said it was
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18:33<jhutchins>yeo: If we're down to trying random switches, you could try booting with noapi, noapic, and nomodeset (test each separately).
18:34<yeo>will do. i just add that to the grub config right
18:34<yeo>like where it says debian, press E and add it
18:34<jhutchins>yeo: yes.
18:34<yeo>will be back
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18:35<jhutchins>yeo: You should be able to get this working. I wonder if Dell supports Linux on this box? They sell certain models with Ubuntu pre-installed.
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20:41-!-Celelibi is "Alors, il est beau mon whois ?" on #qemu #debian
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20:53-!-chirlu is "Ulrich Klauer" on #debian
20:54<znoteer>trying to install Buster to a uefi machine for the first time. When the installer tries to install grub (grub-install --force "dummy6
20:55<znoteer>(grub-install --force "dummy") I get the error "vars_set_variable: write () failed: No space left on device". If I drop to a shell and run df, there is lots of space everywhere in the filesystem. What else could be running out of space?
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21:01-!-AleksejShilin is "Алексей Шилин" on #debian #debian-l10n-russian #debian-apt
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21:05-!-mift is "Matthew Tift" on #debian
21:06<sqrt{not}>znoteer: one thing to check, do you have a separate /boot partition, and another separate UEFI partition mounted at /boot/efi ?
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21:22<sleblanc>hello people, I used to have xinput set-prop 'My Trackball' 'libinput Middle Emulation Enabled' 1 in my .xinitrc but it's not doing it anymore, as if the property disappeared from my device after an update
21:24<sleblanc>I am having a hard time trying to find relevant material online as every link I am following discusses how to set the property, but this property is simply missing on my device
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21:31<znoteer>sqrt{not}: yes, I have both
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21:48-!-kts is "Kyaw Thu Soe" on #debian-next #debian
21:49<aidalgol>How do I properly set up file-type associations when I'm running just a bare window manager, not a full desktop environment?
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21:57-!-nyov is "nyov" on #oftc #debian #luakit
21:57<znoteer>I'm installing Buster to a machine. I get a fatal error at the install grub stage. When I drop to a shell and look in syslog, grub-installer gives an error about No space left on device. But, when I run df, no part of the filesystem is even close to running out of space. Does anyone know where I might be running out of space, or what exactly that error might mean?
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22:10-!-wpa2 is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on @#+debian-next #debian
22:11<wpa2>hey guys, i cant figure out how to get wifi on this damn install
22:13<wpa2>when i run wpa_supplicant -B -i wlp0s20f3 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf I get "attribute failed policy validation and failed to enable p2p device interface" along with some other stuff
22:13<wpa2>i3-wm says i am connected to the wifi, and Wpa_Gui shows that I am connected as well, however i cant access webpages or ping anything.
22:14<mendel_munkis>does anyone know of a calculator that will let me use multiple arbitrary bases?
22:15<mendel_munkis>eg time is roughly expressed as 12:4:7:24:60:60
22:15<wpa2>i really need help w/ this
22:15<wpa2>yeah says im connected thru wpa_gui but as i said i cant ping anything and wifi clearly isnt working
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22:17<sleblanc>mendel_munkis, qalculate has some funky bases
22:17<sleblanc>mendel_munkis, you cannot input arbitrary bases but it has "Time format". I'm sure you could shoehorn a patch that also deals with date+time format
22:18<sleblanc>mendel_munkis, other than that, I can only recommend Calc/Excel or learning some Python/Emacs-lisp and coding it yourself
22:21<mendel_munkis>sleblanc: A friend is doing some astronomical calculations and asked me if I could find anything but he says its not worth coding something up for the few times he'll use it. thanks for the advice though.
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22:39-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #qemu #llvmlinux
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22:49<wpa2>hey im back on
22:49<wpa2>any ideas abt the wifi guys
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22:58-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian #packaging
22:59<sleblanc>mendel_munkis, honestly, it would take just a few lines in a spread sheet
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23:00<sleblanc>wpa2 do you have an IP address?
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23:20<karelk>for thunderbird, which of the spell-check infrastructure do I need?
23:21<karelk>ie, aspell, hunspell, ...
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 01 00:00:05 2019