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#debian IRC Logs for 2020-06-30

---Logopened Tue Jun 30 00:00:06 2020
---Daychanged Tue Jun 30 2020
00:00<blueskies>aloo_shu: Also, I tried that in the Live CD I was using and it didn't give me a console login, it gave me a graphical one.
00:00<pumpernickel>It would drop you to console blueskies
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00:01<blueskies>ok
00:01<aloo_shu>try F1-F8
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00:01<aloo_shu>or also, and that might work from a normal term
00:02<aloo_shu>systemctl isolate multi-user
00:02<blueskies>And then, theoretically, Xorg -configure should at least run and generate a file, even if it doesn't manage to come up with the correct config?
00:02<aloo_shu>(as root)
00:03<blueskies>aloo_shu: The liveCD i was using was pre-systemd. Also, F1-F12 were all graphical logins, though it wouldn't let me back to F7, which was apparently the main X
00:04<aloo_shu>ok, if it was pre-systemd, then it might also still have used an xorg.conf file regularly
00:09<blueskies>aloo_shu: I was hoping for that, but I booted it up, and there's none in /etc/X11/ on the live CD's filesystem, at least
00:09<blueskies>pumpernickel: Working on the firmware attempt
00:09<aloo_shu>you'd have to go trough whatever the service manager is, or try to get rid of the display(login) manager. couldn't you boot the liveCD into a rescue mode? then drop the xorg.conf to a more persistent place? or, maybe you could pass Xorg a different display variable, so that it could do configure, because it's not yet running for that _display_
00:10<aloo_shu>ok, I'm off to bed, I was only half following, and didn't read back to the original problem
00:11<blueskies>aloo thanks and sleep well!
00:11<blueskies>aloo_shu: ^
00:12<aloo_shu>:)
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00:12<pumpernickel>blueskies you seem to be all over the place ^^.
00:13<blueskies>pumpernickel: I got quite a few "Cannot move" ... "Directory not empty"s. Should I worry about that or assume the existing version was probably fine?
00:13<blueskies>pumpernickel: I have no choice when I have no idea what I'm doing :)
00:14<pumpernickel>That’s fine as you shouldn’t have any devices which would need those
00:14<blueskies>Okay, reboot pending.
00:14<blueskies>Oh wait,
00:15<pumpernickel>blueskies so you booted a Ubuntu 12.04? Would download an iso to see if I can find a config
00:15<pumpernickel>oh I missed one command :/
00:15<pumpernickel>for the firmware
00:15<blueskies>pumpernickel: Do I need to rebuild my initramfs or anything? Or just reboot?
00:15<blueskies>pumpernickel: What was it?
00:15<blueskies>pumpernickel: or is it?
00:15<pumpernickel>You would need to rebuild init ^^
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00:16<blueskies>pumpernickel: update-initramfs?
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00:17<pumpernickel>Update-initramfs -c
00:17<pumpernickel>blueskies ^
00:17<blueskies>ok
00:18<blueskies>"create mode requires a version argument". Should I be specifying the version or using -u to update?
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00:19<pumpernickel>blueskies yeah
00:19<blueskies>pumpernickel: haha, which?
00:19<blueskies>or either?
00:20<pumpernickel>-u blueskies sorry xD
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00:24<blueskies>pumpernickel: Okay, when doing update-initramfs -u it still gave me a bunch of "possible missing firmware"s, including many for the i915 module, which seems to be my graphics driver? Is it worth checking to make sure I do, in fact, have the one I need?
00:25<blueskies>pumpernickel: Or is it just reboot time? I took a photo of what it says I may be missing, and obviously I can just ls the dir to see what I do have later.
00:25<blueskies>Meh, reboot time. I convinced myself.
00:27<pumpernickel>blueskies yes reboot time. as the i915 driver does have multiple drivers (for gpus), the possibility of missing firmwares for other ones is pretty high
00:28<pumpernickel>so I spun up a 12.04 iso, and welp, i guess the config is made on the fly (at least on the live cd)
00:28<blueskies>pumpernickel: No luck with the reboot. I don't know if this is at all helpful, but the black screen I get on a normal (non-nomodeset) boot seems to be the monitor being completely off, not just black. Like backlight-off black. I don't know if that confirms or narrows down the monitor config theory, or if it possibly points in another direction or no direction. Does it mean anything to you?
00:29<blueskies>pumpernickel: Aw man.
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00:30<blueskies>pumpernickel: It seems weird that Xorg would be able and allowed to determine its own settings without having a command to output what the heck it decided to do.
00:30<blueskies>pumpernickel: Not that autoconfig isn't normally a very nice thing.
00:31<pumpernickel>blueskies, well there are some rules, for example some of them in ahm...
00:31<pumpernickel>'/usr/share/X11/'
00:33<pumpernickel>blueskies, so what I could guess. Back in the day, ubuntu carried some patches for that device (as it was certified (at least for 14.04 as you told me)). but why it doesn't work nowadays, no idea. I guess Canonical upstreamed their patches
00:34<blueskies>Yeah, but I'm also using the 12.04 livecd which, presumably, was before it was made. Though maybe it's just getting more basic support by default?
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00:34<pumpernickel>blueskies when the device was certified, maybe those patches were reimplemented into 12.04, and then dell got a special install iso
00:34<blueskies>pumpernickel: Like, maybe it's not being detected as a touchscreen at all by the old cd, but a newer kernel, etc knows that it is one and chokes trying to figure out how to make it all work? Does that sound reasonable?
00:35<pumpernickel>blueskies I guess. but on the same hand, as I was testing out the vm (X -configure) X had the same issues as your output
00:35<pumpernickel>(honestly I do hope that we can move faster to wayland xD)
00:36<pumpernickel>there is a reason why almost nobody wants to touch X anymore
00:36<blueskies>pumpernickel: Not sure exactly what you mean about reimplementation, but this is an authentic old-school 12.04 cd, not some retro one from after 14.04 was out! :)
00:36<pumpernickel>blueskies I guess you have 12.04.4? or an actual 12.04?
00:37<pumpernickel>oh .3 is the latest
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00:37<pumpernickel>damn canonical. so it is .4 ><
00:37<blueskies>downloaded iso was ubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386.iso (i wrote it on the cd)
00:39<pumpernickel>blueskies yeah I checked on the mirror. and I guess that maybe ubuntu does something different to their X server. so which would mean newer releases should also work? maybe?
00:40<blueskies>pumpernickel: Well, I haven't tried, and I'd honestly hesitate to go back to ubuntu, though it wouldn't really be all that bad. But I should definitely try. Although I suspect if I got a debian live cd from the same era, that would work, too. Mabye not, though.
00:40<blueskies>pumpernickel: Maybe I just need to try every live CD I can find and if I find one that works, either go with that distro or try to learn from its config?
00:41<pumpernickel>blueskies, for testing it should be okay to go back to ubuntu or not? ^^
00:41<blueskies>pumpernickel: Oh, definitely for that, as long as I can get useful information about how to get debian working.
00:41<pumpernickel>blueskies I guess so, maybe it's even faster to just install an older distro for a sec, look at the conf, and then reinstall buster, but no idea how much time you wanna invest ;)
00:42<blueskies>pumpernickel: So do you think that actually installing ubuntu 12.04 would allow me to get a good conf or no? I don't really mind reinstalling buster, since I may end up wanting to switch back to XFCE anyway.
00:43<blueskies>pumpernickel: and I'd be more confident in getting a cleaner install if I reinstalled without GNOME rather than trying to remove it afterwards
00:43<pumpernickel>blueskies, before doing that I would test out 18.04 or 20.04, as those would give you a better config imho. as they are around buster, while 12.04 is so old, it could mean that the config file is way different (probably not)
00:44<pumpernickel>blueskies yeah, so it's kinda already settled that you would reinstall buster ;)
00:44<blueskies>pumpernickel: I was just thinking I wonder if the 12.04 installer can do UEFI. I had to boot the installer as "legacy"
00:45<pumpernickel>blueskies nope. 12.04 is way too old for that
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00:47<blueskies>Okay, downloading 20.04 image. We do think it needs to be installed? Seeing what it does live won't help? Or do you think if it works live (I'm assuming they still do live CD's for installers) I can do the xkill -a thing and try Xorg -configure?
00:48<pumpernickel>blueskies I guess you would need to install, but I would just test it out
00:51<pumpernickel>blueskies I have to leave you in a few mins :/
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00:53<blueskies>pumpernickel: Fair enough. Thank you so much for all the time and help. I'm working on writing the ubuntu iso to a thumb drive and will give it all a try. If it boots to a desktop, what do you suggest?
00:53<blueskies>(if it boots to a live cd desktop)
00:54<pumpernickel>blueskies figuring out what X does and then trying to adapt that config file (maybe even copy it 1:1 to buster)
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00:55<blueskies>Meaning xkill -a, Xorg -configure? Or install, then Xorg -configure? Or do you mainly mean something else first?
00:55<pumpernickel>blueskies on the other hand what I remembered, there could also be an option to not install buster but bullseye (debian-next) so if there would be a bug in X itself or somewhere else it should maybe be fixed because of newer versions (but testing is a little bit more 'brittle' to breaks)
00:55<pumpernickel>blueskies probably first testing out xkill -a and if that won't work installing ubuntu
00:56<pumpernickel>or you could first upgrade to bullseye to see if it works. then use the ubuntu iso
00:56<blueskies>pumpernickel: But as far as figuring out how it's (theoretically) making the monitor work, it would be via Xorg -configure?
00:56<pumpernickel>blueskies yes :)
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00:58<blueskies>pumpernickel: Yeah, I probably wouldn't be that averse to 'testing'. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's better than most alternatives. Is updating from buster the best way or a fresh install?
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00:58<pumpernickel>blueskies updating is the recommended way
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00:59<blueskies>Okay. I guess I will try the ubuntu livecd, and since as far as I know, that's still based off testing, anyway, maybe it will give me a decent idea whether actual testing will work.
00:59<pumpernickel>blueskies ubuntu is forked off of sid ;)
01:00<blueskies>oh right, I knew that, but i'm too tired, mentall and physically :)
01:00<pumpernickel>good luck, hopefully I hear a happy end from you. you can also ping me (as my bot will stay online) blueskies
01:00<pumpernickel>blueskies I can imagine :/
01:01<blueskies>But testing should be pretty close to sid at this point, maybe?
01:01<blueskies>Anyway, thanks for all the time and help. Sleep well!
01:01<blueskies>pumpernickel: and I'll try to share good news when (not if, dammit!) it develops
01:01<pumpernickel>blueskies it's mostly 1 week behind. as there is testing before it goes to testing. so it doesn't break at the first wiff of air
01:02<blueskies>pumpernickel: okay, but if sid works in this case, testing probably will, and vice versa
01:04<pumpernickel>Theoretically yes, as sid is still more recent than testing or 20.04. (I think the last time canonical pulled in from Sid was around January. So still pretty new. But even testing is newer blueskies
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04:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 693] by debhelper
04:49<grummund>curl fails with code 60 "Peer certificate cannot be authenticated with known CA certificates." on a site that Firefox is ok with, does that mean package ca-certificates is due an update?
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05:11<grawity>grummund: what chain is Firefox showing for it?
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05:11<grawity>and/or what chain is gnutls-cli or openssl s_client showing for it?
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05:12<grawity>one thing about Firefox/NSS is that it caches intermediate certificates it sees, so it's able to resolve incomplete chains later
05:13<grawity>otoh, if it's the AddTrust issue, I'm sure an update has already been released for that
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05:58-!-yumkam is "Yuriy M. Kaminskiy" on #debian #debian-multimedia #debian-qemu
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06:02<grummund>grawity: problem solved with curl --insecure
06:02<grawity>>solved
06:02<grummund>grawity: but fwiw, viewing the certificate in firefox: "CA Issuers: URI: http://cacerts.digicert.com/DigiCertSHA2SecureServerCA.crt"
06:03-!-pamaury [~pamaury@ip-49.net-89-3-53.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
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06:09-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian-es #debian
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06:47-!-rattlesnake is "rattlesnake" on #debian
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06:53<rjsalts>how do you disable the resolving dependencies solver in aptitude?
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07:27-!-totonika is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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08:36<bremner>is is possible to change the sender for message in the deferred queue in postfix?
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09:53<jeivy>Hi there!
09:53<annadane>hihi
09:53<jeivy>Does anyone feel that Debian is increasingly bloated with every release since Ian Murdock passed away?
09:54<jeivy>I love Debian!
09:56<jeivy>have been using it since Etch in 2006.
09:57<jeivy>But since Jessie, it seems Debian has become more like Ubuntu and Mint...
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10:00-!-ConvexEd is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
10:01<bremner>jeivy: you sound a bit trollish this morning. Do you have an actual support question?
10:01<jeivy>Sorry! I do apologise.
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10:02<jeivy>This is a support only channel?
10:03<bremner>yep. But maybe you want #debian-offtopic for more freeform discussion
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11:18<zazke>Hello
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11:24<annadane>zazke, hello
11:25<zazke>Hi annadane, this is my first time here.
11:25<zazke>I've been using Debian for over a year though
11:26<annadane>welcome
11:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 694] by debhelper
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11:32<zazke>thanks
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11:59<jeivy>IDENTIFY jeivy
12:00<pumpernickel>hope that's not your password jeivy :)
12:00<jeivy>which one?
12:00-!-sherab [~sherab_@31.127.159.102] has quit [Quit: sherab]
12:01<pumpernickel>after identify is normally the password jeivy
12:01-!-ivan_ [~ivan@78-80-114-90.nat.epc.tmcz.cz] has joined #debian
12:01-!-ivan_ is "ivan" on #debian
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12:01-!-adam_ is "realname" on #debian
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12:02<jeivy>IDENTIFY hk100 jeivy
12:02<sqrt{not}>jeivy, we all see what you are typing there.
12:02-!-adam_ [~adam@41.248.108.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:03<jeivy>why does it even needs passwd now?
12:03<sqrt{not}>jeivy, if you are trying to talk to the NickServ, you must type: /msg NickServ whatever whatever whatever
12:03<jeivy>what is the exact command to identify?
12:03<sqrt{not}>jeivy, you are in, it is working, I don't see why you need any more
12:03-!-B113 [~apery@hv01.b113.eu] has quit [Quit: paka]
12:03<jeivy>:D
12:03<jeivy>sorry
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12:04<sqrt{not}>jeivy, you probably want to change your password, now that we all saw it
12:04<jeivy>ok
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12:08-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian #guardianproject #debian-gnupg #kernel-br #tor-south #debian-br
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12:15<jeivy>I did!
12:15<jeivy>the new password is hk123
12:15<mendel_munkis>not hunter2?
12:15<annadane>REGAIN failed on nickname jeivy.
12:16<jeivy>just joking
12:22<boldsuck>You can take a certificate instead of a password
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13:24<blueskies>pumpernickel: Hey again. Still no luck. My list of things that won't boot to desktop now include Buster, Mint 18.1, Ubuntu 20.04, interestingly Ubuntu 14.04.6, and ArchBang's current image. The things that have booted to a desktop so far are Ubuntu 12.04 and Ubuntu 14.04. 14.04 worked with the touchscreen, too.
13:25<blueskies>pumpernickel: Even in those, though, Xorg -configure doesn't work. It gives the same-ish strange xorg.conf.new and has the same warnings about number of screens not matching, etc.
13:26<blueskies>pumpernickel: I think my next stop is #xorg on freenode, and hopefully they'll be willing and able to help. I've gotta allow my motivation / energy to replenish first, though.
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13:29<pumpernickel>hm interesting blueskies. so it seems something has changed (maybe alot) in x. now is the question. even if they would get fixed. idk when x has a new release, as x is deprecated
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13:31<blueskies>pumpernickel: I don't know. Do you think it's really a broken/unfixable x problem? I was assuming / hoping it was an auto-detect & -config problem that could be overcome by some setting changes or manual config.
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13:33<blueskies>pumpernickel: It really surprised me that that they managed to break it between 14.04 and 14.04.6
13:34<blueskies>pumpernickel: Though I think 14.04 was LTS, so that may actually represent quite a bit of time passed.
13:35<pumpernickel>did you install 14.04.6 fresh or upgraded from 14.04? blueskies
13:36<blueskies>pumpernickel: Just a livecd on thumb drive
13:36<pumpernickel>blueskies aha
13:37<pumpernickel>so, imho that would mean imho, that it's not xorg acting up
13:37<blueskies>Why's that?
13:37<sarnold>14.04.5 and 14.04.6 desktop installer (and probably livecd) used the kernel from 16.04 -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/#LTS_Hardware_Enablement_Stack
13:38<pumpernickel>sounds more like gpu drivers. as .6 has the hwe (hardware enablement) stack enabled (which means newer kernel + mesa)
13:38<pumpernickel>yeah
13:38<sarnold>14.04 and 14.04.1 used the 'original' release kernel; .2, .3, .4, desktop installers use newer HWE kernels
13:38<blueskies>sarnold, you're really getting funny with the helpful and informative lurking. Thanks!
13:39<sarnold>:D
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13:40<blueskies>So it sounds like maybe I should try 14.04.4 and see what that does?
13:41<sarnold>it's worth a shot, anyway
13:41<blueskies>pumpernickel: And it also sounds like maybe we're back to screwed up graphics drivers on arguably the most open platform (intel)?
13:41<pumpernickel>blueskies that, or you could just stay for now on 14.04 with UA enabled. so you still get security fixes (so you have a working sytem) and then move from there to somehow figure out whats happening
13:42<pumpernickel>blueskies, they are open. but imho they are not great at supporting older hardware. but that's probably just my opinion
13:42<blueskies>pumpernickel: 14.04 was just a livecd image, too. Buster is still installed.
13:43<pumpernickel>blueskies yeah I know. just saying if you want to have a working system 14.04 seems to be the way to go (for short term)
13:44<blueskies>pumpernickel: As appealing is it is to kick the can down the road, I don't think I'm lucky enough for the problem to work itself out in the meantime, so I'd rather not have to dive into this again later. I've just gotta go deeper and get it worked through! :)
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13:45<blueskies>Anyway, I'll give 14.04.4 livecd a shot and see if it works, which I think is what we expect.
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13:45<pumpernickel>btw 14.04.4 shouldn't work :p blueskies
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13:46<blueskies>pumpernickel: Okay, so we don't expect .4 to work, then, but .1 is a probably yes?
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13:47<blueskies>pumpernickel: It does seem worth checking multiple to figure it out. Do you think .2 is the first place it would be broken, then? Because I can try that first, instead, then .1 to confirm that works
13:47<pumpernickel>i'm not too familiar with the older ubuntu releases. but afaik, as long as you have the hwe stack NOT enabled, it should work
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13:47<yeatoast>test
13:48<pumpernickel>which all of .1 and greater should (at least the newer ones). if sarnold is right .1 should work
13:48<yeatoast>What?
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13:49<blueskies>pumpernickel: So hwe is just newer driver packages, and the newer driver packages are where we think the problem lies?
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13:50<pumpernickel>blueskies yes
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13:50<blueskies>pumpernickel: Okay, I'll try .2
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14:10<pumpernickel>blueskies any updates? as something came up, so I would need to leave for about 2-3 hrs
14:12<blueskies>pumpernickel: Oh man, please do go on with your life! :) .2 got a black screen, I'm writing .1 to the thumb drive now to confirm it works. Thanks for the help again, and I'll probably need to pick up with you when you get back, if you have time again then.
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14:13<blueskies>pumpernickel: But I'm under no illusion that you owe me this help, so thanks for giving it when you can!
14:13<blueskies>Trying .1
14:13<pumpernickel>blueskies, ha, I am living my life so no worries :P. so hopefully some good news after i come back. because imho, after that it's going to be hairy, (as in using git bisect, where I have literally no clue)
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14:17<blueskies>pumpernickel: .1 booted to desktop, as semi-predicted. Is it not possible to check what driver is being used and compare it to what's being used for Buster or any of the other broken ones? Or do we assume it's the right driver in both cases, just a buggy one in the more recent kernels? And is the driver development so intertwined with the rest of the kernel that it can't just be swapped out easily or something?
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14:18<blueskies>pumpernickel: And feel free not to answer if you already left :) Or if you need to leave. I just wanted to type out my questions to clarify my own thinking. This way I also give sarnold a chance to chime in helpfully :)
14:19<sarnold>:D
14:19<sarnold>alas I'm not too good at debugging driver things
14:19<blueskies>drat :)
14:20<sarnold>all I've got are (a) check the log files (b) strace it! -- but stracing X sounds like the worst thing ever
14:21<blueskies>okay, we'll keep that in our back pocket!
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14:33<sqrt{not}>blueskies: (I'm no expert on such X.org problems, BUT) I suggest comparing the logs from 14.04.1 (which works, yes?) against 14.04.2 (which doesn't ?), look at what kernel module versions are loaded, what firmware versions are loaded, what X components and versions are loaded.
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14:34<sqrt{not}>also, look at whatever changelogs are available for the transition from .1 to .2 , and see if anything jumps out at you
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14:37<sarnold>sqrt{not}: ooh, good idea :D
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15:09<blueskies>sqrt{not}: Thanks for the suggestion. To get to even a console for 14.04.2, I think I'll have to boot with nomodeset. Do you think that will prevent the most helpful information from being available? Well, I guess it still doesn't get to a desktop, so it's not like there aren't still problems going on then. Can you, by any chance, recommend a list of what command outputs and logs you think would be most helpful?
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15:12<blueskies>I'd like to think I'm going about this fairly intelligently, but I'm very much out of my depth here.
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15:37<DellGuy>Sort of a weird problem, might be more of a Gnome problem... I can't launch Terminal.
15:37<DellGuy>Nothing happens when I launch the terminal from Gnome.
15:38<DellGuy>I can see gnome-terminal in the System monitor.
15:38<DellGuy>Tried restarting it, tried rebooting the computer, too.
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15:39<DellGuy>I get some weird error messages at reboot about "firmware", I suspect it might have something to do with me adding i386 architecture to APT and installing i386 graphic drivers in order to get a couple of Wine programs to run...
15:39<DellGuy>But why wouldn't terminal launch when Gnome works fine?
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15:50<DellGuy>I fixed it.
15:50<DellGuy>It had to do with locale settings.
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16:42<Dude-Meister>Is anyone home? :) I am trying to change permissions on a partition from root to make the contents of an entire disk to be modified by andother account, but subfolders stay locked and I have to keep switching back to root and giving permissions to the other account at each level. I'm sure there's an easier way to do this, but don't know how.
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16:44<petn-randall>Dude-Meister: Did you ask that the other day? You need to be a little more patient before disconnecting.
16:45<Dude-Meister>I did, and something came up a few moments later. Yes, that was me.
16:46<petn-randall>Dude-Meister: How are you changing permissions? Most tools have a recursive option.
16:46<Dude-Meister>I used to use the name john as an unregistered user, but had to creazte an account and found there was a "john" registered that hasn't been here in a couple years.
16:46<Dude-Meister>You've helpped me before petn-randall. Nice to see you.
16:48<Dude-Meister>So, yeah, I know enough to be dangerous. :) The drives are for the most part just single partition disks, but there are a couple that are just two large partitions.
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16:48<Dude-Meister>Sadly I've added drives and slung files to them as root and then . . . hmmm. . . grrrr. lol
16:50<Dude-Meister>So, that's why I'm back to fix my mistakes - again. It's been a while this time - so I'm learning!
16:52<sarnold>Dude-Meister: chown(1) -R may be helpful
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17:00<aidalgol>I have this as my nftables.conf https://paste.debian.net/1154558/ and it seems to be working as intended except that the final 'log' line in the input chain is having the opposite effect: it's logging accepted incoming packets from connections initiated by us and not dropped packets.
17:01<aidalgol>Any ideas?
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17:05<Dude-Meister>sarnold, I'm reading up on chown syntax and what I'm not understanding is how to specify which partition is being referenced
17:06<Dude-Meister>I think I might have an idea
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17:06<sarnold>Dude-Meister: chown, chmod, etc, don't work on partitions, they work on directories
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17:13<Dude-Meister>Hmmmm. It's almost working - but there is a space in the drive's partition name and it's seeing it as two different names in the path.
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17:14<sqrt{not}>Dude-Meister: show us the command you are typing
17:14<Dude-Meister>So . . . | chown /media/user/drive 7/folder-name
17:15<sqrt{not}>just put a \ character before the space
17:15<blueskies>put the path in quotes or escape the space
17:15<Dude-Meister>or (sorry) | chown user:group media/user/drive 7/folder |
17:15<blueskies>Also, this may be helpful: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/454962/mounting-volume-partition-with-permissions-for-user
17:16<blueskies>As it gives a few options depending on the situation
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17:17<Dude-Meister>:) Quotes worked!
17:17<blueskies>Also, don't forget the -R, that's what makes it recursive through subdirectories
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17:18<Dude-Meister>blueskies, the link is likely going to help too. People at StackExchange are so far above me it often takes me a lot of extra reading jsut to understand what I'm reading there! lololol
17:18<Dude-Meister>Good stuff.
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17:19<blueskies>Yeah, that's where I am with my own current problems. As soon as you start to understand anything, you just get yourself into harder problems! :)
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17:20<Dude-Meister>sqrt{not}, | sudo chown user:group ""media/user/drive 7/folder" | turned the trick
17:21<Dude-Meister>oh. I forgot the -R switch
17:22<sqrt{not}>yes, that works also
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17:23<Dude-Meister>This was also helpful: https://www.computerhope.com/unix/uchown.htm
17:25<Dude-Meister>I thank you all again. I try not to bug y'all but some days . . . :)
17:25<blueskies>Dude-Meister: Yeah, it's funny, sometimes the man pages aren't even clear enough :)
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17:25<Dude-Meister>I RTFM until my eyes are crossed then . . . .
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17:27<Dude-Meister>I'm not real good about reading man pages, truth be told. I forgot how, for one {blush} and I usually just search the internet, which where I think I often make things much harder on myself than it needs to be.
17:28<Dude-Meister>Slowly I learn - quickly I forget - *sometimes*
17:29<Dude-Meister>WThanks again, and well-wishes to one and all for your safety, comfort and contentment. Peace out.
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17:33<sqrt{not}>for bonus aggravation " or available locally via: info '(coreutils) chown invocation'"
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17:51<pumpernickel>blueskies isn't it great that there is so much to learn about linux ;p
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17:53<pumpernickel>blueskies, so normally when X boots up, it tries every single driver (except you specified it in the conf file). which sadly you don't have on a live boot disk. on top of that, when using nomodeset, he never tries the 'actual gpu drivers' but the generic ones. so without installing, we don't know which driver uses .0 or .1 (afaik, as nothing is
17:53<pumpernickel>stored)
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17:56<blueskies>pumpernickel: Welcome back! And yeah, always a newer and more frustrating challenge just around the corner! :)
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17:57<pumpernickel>blueskies especially with old hardware :( but at least a nice future is in sight :)
17:57<blueskies>pumpernickel: Well, I can certainly install if it will actually help. Did you see sqrt's suggestions above? Seemed good, but I don't know what actual outputs and logs I would need, and it would be nice to have a nice list before so I can do them all at once per OS.
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17:59<blueskies>pumpernickel: or if you have an idea how to proceed, I'm in. But by myself, I"m at a bit of a loss.
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18:00<pumpernickel>blueskies yeah I read the whole log (of 60ish messages). let me see, as I can't remember if 14.04 was already systemd or not. and the other issue is. which logfiles we need (I don't want to miss one). but as we already know X log file is garbage and tells us nothing :(
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18:00<pumpernickel>hm okay, 14.04 uses upstart still
18:00<blueskies>pumpernickel: Also, I booted 14.04.2 (which is black screen on normal boot) with nomodeset, and instead of a black screen with cursor, like most of the other things I've made work that well, it actuall booted to the desktop. Just the desktop, though, no menu on the side and stuff. So still kidn of weird.
18:01<pumpernickel>wait, so you always got that black screen with cursor or only on 14.04.2? blueskies
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18:03<blueskies>pumpernickel: with Buster, normal boot gives a plain black screen (i think the backlight might be off, too). Buster with nomodeset gives a black screen with a cursor in the upper left, from which I can Alt-F2 to get a console.
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18:03<blueskies>pumpernickel: With 14.04.2, normal boot gives the same black screen, but then nomodeset actually managed to get into some semblance of a desktop session
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18:04<blueskies>pumpernickel: I don't think I bothered trying nomodeset with most of the other things I tried, because I was only really trying to see if it actually worked well, not if I could make it limp along.
18:06<blueskies>pumpernickel: But all the other distros and versions I tried do normal boot on ended up in a solid black screen.
18:06<pumpernickel>blueskies that's so weird, as the driver would 'degrate'
18:06<pumpernickel>+d -t
18:06<blueskies>Yeah
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18:11<jhutchins>Or, y'know, something changed on the system.
18:11<pumpernickel>blueskies I think I know what we need. but imho we should probably move channels as this is nothing debian related anymore (since awhile ;) )
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18:15<blueskies>jhutchins: Meaning what?
18:15<blueskies>like what kind of thing?
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18:27<mendel_munkis>do any of the livecd images have ssh enabled by default?
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18:28<pumpernickel>not that I know of mendel_munkis
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18:37<mendel_munkis>I love it when stage 1 of an install is "move the drive to a different machine"
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18:38<pumpernickel>mendel_munkis no monitor keyboard on that system?
18:39<mendel_munkis>nope. just mouse
18:39<mendel_munkis>although to be honest I could probably add a keyboard without too much trouble
18:40<pumpernickel>would probably be easier than getting the disk out
18:40<mendel_munkis>already moved.
18:40<mendel_munkis>but thanks
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18:46-!-woky_ is "woky" on #debian #kernelnewbies
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18:46-!-pitelpan_ is "Panos Pitelos" on #debian
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18:49-!-mbond is "mbond" on #debian
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18:50-!-prompt32 is "realname" on #debian-ipv6 #suckless #tor-project #tor-dev #freedombox #virt #qemu #debian
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18:52-!-azure4 is "azure" on #debian
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18:58-!-jipege4 is "jipege" on #debian-l10n-fr #debian
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18:58-!-thiras is "realname" on #debian
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19:08<mendel_munkis>Is it possible to ls a ntfs partition from the installer?
19:09<mendel_munkis>I tried mounting it after loading ntfs-modules and it fails
19:09-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
19:09-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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19:10<pumpernickel>mendel_munkis yes
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19:14-!-dftxbs3e is "realname" on #ovirt #packaging #debian #qemu #virt
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19:20-!-sunilmohan is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #debian-blends #freedombox-ci #freedombox-dev @#debian-webapps #debian #freedombox #pere
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19:25-!-zyley is "zyleyt" on #debian #debian-next #debian-live #debian-offtopic #moocows #oftc
19:31-!-ach- [~spo@ip-109-41-195-13.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
19:31-!-ach- is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian #spooky
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19:34-!-ConvexEd is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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19:36-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:39-!-ach [~spo@ip-109-41-195-194.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39-!-ach- is now known as ach
19:40-!-boldsuck [~marco@2001:4dd0:200:403:8080::4] has joined #debian
19:40-!-boldsuck is "boldsuck" on #debian-kde #debian
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19:42-!-zyley is now known as Guest2183
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19:42-!-zyley is "zyleyt" on #debian #debian-next #debian-live #debian-offtopic #moocows #oftc
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19:42-!-coruja is "coruja" on #frickelplatz #debian-next #debian
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19:43-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:43-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:44-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:44-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:45-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:45-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:45-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:45-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:46-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:46-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:46-!-fred1m [~quassel@2a01:e0a:8e:8b20:7f27:bb0d:81b2:ecb9] has joined #debian
19:46-!-fred1m is "Utilisateur IRC Quassel" on #debian-next #debian-fasttrack #freedombox-dev #freedombox #freedombox-ci #debian
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19:47-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:47-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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19:56-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next
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20:02-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@81-67-152-104.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
20:02-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on @#oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian
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20:04-!-alumno is "Alumno" on #debian
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20:14-!-zhou is "zhou" on #debian
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20:17-!-hendi_ is "Hendrik Richter" on #debian
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20:20-!-fstd_ is "fstd" on #gentoo #oftc #linode #debian #kernelnewbies
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20:27-!-carnil_ is "Salvatore Bonaccorso" on #debian-next #debian-perl #debian-devel-changes #debian
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20:31-!-shiki is "realname" on #debian
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20:32-!-dust is "dust" on #oftc #debian #debian-next
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20:38-!-dust is "dust" on #oftc #debian #debian-next
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20:44-!-r3m is "launch" on #debian #bitlbee
20:45-!-ac_laptop2 [~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129] has joined #debian
20:45-!-ac_laptop2 is "ac_laptop" on #debian
20:45-!-r3m is now known as Guest2187
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20:51-!-r3m_ is "launch" on #debian #bitlbee
20:52-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:52-!-voyager1 is "user" on #tor-dev #tor-project #debian #guardianproject #debian-gnupg #kernel-br #tor-south #debian-br
21:00-!-drzacek_ [~drzacek@i5E869EAE.versanet.de] has joined #debian
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21:02-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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21:10-!-sol is "Your Name" on #debian
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21:15-!-ach is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian @#spooky
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21:17-!-gdb is "Christofer C. Bell" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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21:18-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debconf-miniauditorio #debian-ubuntu #debian #debconf18-taiwan #debian-xfce
21:22-!-donii [~androirc@83.234.86.88.rdns.comcable.net] has joined #debian
21:22-!-donii is "Android IRC Client" on #debian #tor-bots #debian-next #lxde #revolution #ceph #virt #zcash #qemu #msys2 #virtualization #linux #freedombox #ovirt #kernelnewbies #debian-glibc #oftc
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21:29-!-blackcat is "blackcat" on #debian
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21:30-!-glauco486 is "blackcat" on #debian
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21:33-!-ConvexEd is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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21:54-!-jwest is "jwest" on #debian-lts #debian-next #debian
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21:58-!-gdot2 is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-owncloud #qemu
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21:59-!-drzacek is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian-next #debian
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22:07-!-praveen is "realname" on #debian
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22:16-!-e86 is "john" on #debian
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22:18-!-allorder is "allorder" on #debian-quebec #debian
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22:24-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #debian
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22:34-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
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22:39-!-ach is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian @#spooky
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23:33<annadane>can i run steam (the debian package) using wine for games that aren't on linux?
23:34<annadane>or i guess, maybe this is what lutris is for
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23:36<pumpernickel>annadane that's lutris for. but today you would mostly just activate proton on all games in your library and be done ;)
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23:38<annadane>is that native to steam or do i need to do something separate for it?
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23:40<annadane>ah, i can search for it
23:40<annadane>i guess i want the latest
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23:41<pumpernickel>what do you mean by native steam? annadane
23:41<pumpernickel>proton is just wine+patches for steam
23:42<annadane>yeah i found it via searching within steam
23:42<annadane>i assume i want the latest version
23:42<pumpernickel>yes
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23:42<pumpernickel>lutris in the mean time, shift their focus on getting wine/gog stuff running better, as valve takes steam into their own hands
23:43<annadane>gotcha
23:43<annadane>thanks :-)
23:43<pumpernickel>mind you sometimes you still want windows steam, as the proton version maybe doesn't work as great, but then the installer just installs the windows steam version (where you would need to login again etc) annadane
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23:44<annadane>pumpernickel, just one more question, am i meant to launch proton after it's downloaded, or else how do i "apply" it to library games?
23:44<pumpernickel>when you activate it for every single game in your library, steam takes care of that, so you just install the game and launch :)
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23:45<annadane>how do you activate it though?
23:46<pumpernickel>settings and then one of the most bottom settings it's called steam play
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23:47<annadane>is it in my library? where do i find it?
23:47<annadane>oh the actual steam settings
23:47<pumpernickel>annadane yes :)
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23:48<annadane>yay!
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 01 00:00:12 2020