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#debian IRC Logs for 2020-09-14

---Logopened Mon Sep 14 00:00:39 2020
---Daychanged Mon Sep 14 2020
00:00<CyberManifest>but it shows in the optional dependencies: https://github.com/polybar/polybar#dependencies
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00:01<CyberManifest>maybe this is what I need: https://packages.debian.org/buster/libasound2-dev
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00:03<fdelapena>I see libpulse-dev in the debian builddep list, (pulseaudio instead of alsa)
00:03<CyberManifest>also not seeing a -dev for libpulse either
00:03<CyberManifest>oh
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00:04<fdelapena>I guess you missed trying with the -t buster-backports again
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00:08<fdelapena>I wish most distros switched to pipewire by default soon
00:08<fdelapena>pro audio and end user needs covered without the mess
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00:11<CyberManifest>getting libcurl4-gnutls-dev conflicts with libcurl4-nss-dev and libcurl4-openssl-dev
00:11<CyberManifest>like all three of those seem to conflict with one another
00:13<CyberManifest>E: unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages
00:13<fdelapena>which makes sense; they are 3 possible ssl/tls implementations
00:13<fdelapena>pick one
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00:13<CyberManifest>fdelapena: I thought they were only the headers since -dev
00:13<CyberManifest>which one do I need for polybar?
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00:15<fdelapena>that's a good point, but sometimes -dev contains extra tools, or the build system is not smart enough to decide which one to pick, or whatever else that made the decision to mark them as conflicting between them
00:15<fdelapena>I guess polybar does not matter, it likely depends on libcurl and maybe not even directly, but via another dep
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00:16<themill>Build-Depends: …, libcurl4-openssl-dev, …
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00:17<fdelapena>if you don't want to dive deeper on reasons, just pick your poison, if it fails building or running because system libcurl depends on another thing (you could use ldd for checking that), then get another one and retry
00:17<fdelapena>thanks mill
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00:18<CyberManifest>Yeah, thank you themill
00:19<fdelapena>if you just need headers, that list is safe
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00:24<CyberManifest>fdelapena: which list?
00:24<fdelapena>the builddep list mentioned above
00:25<CyberManifest>but I didn't see libcurl4-openssl-dev in that list
00:26<CyberManifest>my bad
00:26<CyberManifest>overlooked it
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00:29<CyberManifest>themill: thank you for that build list that helped out a whole lot, thank you thank you thank you
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00:31<themill>no worries. Figuring out the right build-deps is one of the tasks for the package maintainer and for some things can take quite a bit of time and relies on a lot of experience with Debian. It's always worth leveraging work that others have already done for you
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00:41<CyberManifest>so now I'm trying to build https://github.com/ibhagwan/picom and I get -Wno-unknown-warning-option -Wunknown-warning-option: NO and I get Dependency libev found: NO (tried pkgconfig and cmake)
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00:44<CyberManifest>apt says libev4 is already the newest version
00:44<CyberManifest>so can I ignore those NOs ?
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00:47<CyberManifest>I guess since this is a fork of compton I can just do ,builddep compton and use those packages ?
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00:47<themill>,builddep picom --release sid
00:47<judd>Package picom in sid -- Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), pkg-config, meson, asciidoc, docbook-xml, docbook-xsl, libxext-dev, libxcb1-dev, libxcb-damage0-dev, libxcb-xfixes0-dev, libxcb-shape0-dev, libxcb-render-util0-dev, libxcb-render0-dev, libxcb-randr0-dev, libxcb-composite0-dev, libxcb-image0-dev, libxcb-present-dev, libxcb-xinerama0-dev, libxcb-glx0-dev, libpixman-1-dev, libdbus-1-dev, libconfig-
00:47<judd>dev, libgl1-mesa-dev, libpcre2-dev, libevdev-dev, uthash-dev, libev-dev, libx11-xcb-dev, libpcre3-dev.
00:48<CyberManifest>themill: oh, thanks
00:48<CyberManifest>themill: what does (= 13) mean?
00:49<themill>exactly version 13 is required
00:49<themill>,provides debhelper-compat --release sid
00:49<judd>No package named 'debhelper-compat' was found in sid/amd64.
00:49<themill>,provides debhelper --release sid
00:49<judd>Package debhelper in sid/amd64 provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11), debhelper-compat (= 12), debhelper-compat (= 13), dh-sequence-dwz, dh-sequence-elf-tools, dh-sequence-installinitramfs, dh-sequence-systemd.
00:50<sney>'debhelper-compat' in judd output is a fluke and can be safely ignored in almost every case.
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00:57<CyberManifest>sney: have it installed anyone I think :P
00:57<CyberManifest>anyway&
00:57<CyberManifest>anyway*
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01:00<CyberManifest>I'm still getting those NOs
01:02<CyberManifest>on Wno-unknown-warning-option -Wunknown-warning-option: NO and Dependency libev found: NO (tried pkgconfig and cmake)
01:02<CyberManifest>I don't understand I'm supposed to have all the dependencies
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01:03<sney>libev isn't in themill's list and therefore probably isn't enabled in the debian package
01:03<kako>hey
01:03<kako>o/
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01:04<sney>hi
01:04<CyberManifest>sney: what does that mean, does that mean I can't build this on debian?
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01:04<themill>sure you can; Debian builds it on Debian.
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01:04<sney>no, that means the package maintainer looked at the available features and chose which ones to enable
01:04<themill>libev4 is a runtime dependency so it must be compiled against it
01:05<CyberManifest>themill: the ibhagwan fork of it?
01:05<themill>libev-dev is in the build-depns list
01:05<sney>oh in the second line
01:05<themill>,i picom --release sid
01:05<judd>Package picom (x11, optional) in sid/amd64: lightweight compositor for X11. Version: 8-1+b1; Size: 145.6k; Installed: 396k; Homepage: https://github.com/yshui/picom
01:05<themill>CyberManifest: ^^ that's the listed homepage
01:05<CyberManifest>yeah that's a different one
01:06*themill wonders why compiz and friends seem to have so many mostly dead forks
01:06<CyberManifest>I'm wanting https://github.com/ibhagwan/picom
01:06<CyberManifest>and AFAIK it's not dead
01:06<themill>it's likely he same build-deps (or close enough)
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01:07*sney suspects it's because mainstream wms have compositing built in, and the compiz rotating cube etc have limited utility
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01:07<sney>so it becomes this guy, until he graduates. now it's this other person, until they graduate. etc
01:07<CyberManifest>themill: Why another picom fork? ... TL;DR: rounded corners and dual_kawase blur on all backends.
01:09<CyberManifest>I guess I'll just ignore those Nos
01:09<CyberManifest>and move on
01:09<CyberManifest>don't know what else to do
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01:12<fdelapena>in my humble opinion eyecandy contains candy, and candy causes tooth decay ;)
01:12<CyberManifest>well it's installed, guess that's good enough
01:12*CyberManifest sighs
01:13<CyberManifest>fdelapena: those teeth are going to decay anyway
01:13<fdelapena>also software (bitrot)
01:15<CyberManifest>fdelapena: so does broken dependencies IMHO
01:15<CyberManifest>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn%27s_Children_(novel)#Bit_Rot
01:15<fdelapena>if you love eyecandy, consider following the wayfire project
01:15<fdelapena>tldr; like compiz but for wayland
01:16<CyberManifest>fdelapena: I'm eyecandy on a diet < 1GB RAM
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01:18<fdelapena>shrug, no idea on requirements of any of them nowadays
01:20<CyberManifest>wow, this guy did his in less than 558 pkgs https://github.com/rajshekhar26/dotfiles
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01:24<CyberManifest>is the debian package for st ncurses-term, and is it the newest? cause it shows as /usr/share/terminfo/o/old-st
01:24<CyberManifest>nevermind
01:25<CyberManifest>found it stterm
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01:28<CyberManifest>this mean there isn't a debian equivalent https://repology.org/project/cozette-otb/versions ?
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01:57<miko>IDENTIFY
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01:57<miko>REGISTER
01:58<alex11>miko, /msg nickserv help register
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03:44<twb>Can I anna-install an NFS client?
03:45<twb>https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nfs-utils doesn't mention any udebs
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04:08<TLGL>I just noticed my right click context menu in dolphin does nothing other than freeze the program for a bit
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04:14<TLGL>I ran kbuildsycoca5 but still not working
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04:36<TLGL>I'm not sure what I did but it started showing the additional information with sizes and the context menu came back I believe it was after I added some new options under the general settings
04:36<TLGL>Might have been after I enabled some extra preview options
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06:29<strike>Hello
06:29<strike>@
06:29<strike>#
06:30<strike>exho "hi"
06:30<strike>echo "hello"
06:30<bittin^>hi
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06:31<bremner>!ask
06:31<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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07:14<EmleyMoor>On reboot: error: symbol `grub_calloc` not found. Now in rescue mode. What do I do?
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07:19<twb>grub said that?
07:19<twb>goal #1 is to work out which layer is broken:
07:19<twb>grub, kernel, initrd, or root filesystem
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07:20<twb>"grub_calloc" sounds like something grub would say, but if that was so, how would you get to rescue mode?
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07:21<olasd>sounds like something that would put you into "grub rescue mode" rather than (debian / linux) rescue mode
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07:21<twb>olasd: could be!
07:21<EmleyMoor>twb: goal 0 is to work out how to determine
07:21*twb prods EmleyMoor with a stick to check for vital signs
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07:22<EmleyMoor>olasd: exactly - so how do I proceed?
07:22<twb>OK if grub is toast then you probably need to reinstall grub
07:23<twb>(or a better bootloader, if you are a grub Hater like me :-)
07:23<olasd>I've never actually successfully gotten out of the grub rescue mode; what I usually do in that case is reach for a debian installer usb stick and use /that/ in rescue mode to recover the grub install
07:23<EmleyMoor>!
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07:23<twb>EmleyMoor: do you know how to put a boot image onto a USB key and boot it?
07:24<EmleyMoor>Yes but it's a faff and three quarters
07:24<twb>https://nchc.dl.sourceforge.net/project/refind/0.12.0/refind-flashdrive-0.12.0.zip wget that, unzip it, cp refind-flashdrive-0.12.0.img to a USB key
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07:24<twb>See if that's enough to detect and boot your rootfs
07:25<twb>If not, use a Debian Live or Debian Install image
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07:25<EmleyMoor>On what do you suggest I do it?
07:26<twb>EmleyMoor: you have another computer, right? Otherwise how are you IRCing?
07:26<EmleyMoor>First USB stick I've found contains grml
07:27<olasd>grml would work, although a bit more manual
07:27<EmleyMoor>Happy to be guided...
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07:28<twb>EmleyMoor: IMO get & put refind on the USB key, like I suggested
07:28<jm_>!fixmbr
07:28<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
07:28<twb>or that
07:30<EmleyMoor>Need more time than I've got. No quick "start installed Debian for now"?
07:30<twb>EmleyMoor: that's the refind approach I suggested
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07:31<EmleyMoor>I need a grml approach. I don't have time for owt else right now
07:32<twb>Like olasd said, that's MORE work
07:33<EmleyMoor>It's LESS work for availability
07:33<jm_>the above is what you would do using grml
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07:37<EmleyMoor>Would do, but this is more than merely urgent
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07:46<pipedream>Did rescue mode not offer a "repair grub" option?
07:47<olasd>pipedream: the *grub* rescue shell doesn't
07:48<pipedream>btw I recently had this error in a lab of 48 desktops in Rwanda updated via systemimager, and they don't run grub-install after every update. I thought it might be related to 30/31 July grub package updates (on the master image for systemimager). grub-install /dev/sda on each fixed it.
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07:53<EmleyMoor>pipedream: the question is, how did you get them to a state that you could?
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07:57<October>what software would I use to see my CPU temp and CPU fan speed?
07:58<jm_>October: to start with, make sure appropriate drivers are loaded (sensors-detect will help), run sensors to check them, after that anything that can read from their files in /sys will do
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08:00<jm_>for disks drivetemp module will handle them (5.6 kernel or newer, and 5.7 to also work for nvme)
08:01<jm_>(or hddtemp for older kernels)
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08:10<twb>pipedream: snap! I used to routinely have grub failures in computers running mines in... south africa, I think? Because they used grub 1, with device.map, and so could not handle RAID1 setups correctly in all failure modes. That's when I started to hate grub.
08:10<twb>pipedream: I heartily recommend refind (EFI) or extlinux (BIOS) because they simply don't fail the same way grub does
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08:17<tmroland>why does the system get stuck and fail to boot at waiting for /dev/disk-by-uuid/<some UUID> after all I did was simply format my data storage HDD to ext4 and put the new UUID in fstab
08:17<tmroland>that's completely stupid
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08:17<tmroland>system crash because of some HDD being formated
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08:23<sqrt{not}>tmroland, how did you "format" this disk ? what exactly did you put it /etc/fstab ?
08:25<jm_>yeah that happened to me too with systemd, previously it would just skip it and complain, but now you have a timeout and recovery prompt IIRC
08:25<tmroland>just cfdisk , new partition table, create a new partition, mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda1
08:25<tmroland>check the UUID generated
08:25<tmroland>copy paste it in /etc/fstab with UUID= entry
08:26<tmroland>mount point, options rw, 0 0
08:26<tmroland>reboot, stuck at boot forever and fails to boot after
08:27<tmroland>happened on RHEL and Tumbleweed as well
08:27<tmroland>no idea why
08:27<October>tmroland: can you paste the line from fstab?
08:27<tmroland>i dont have it at the moment anymore, i reinstalled the system
08:28<sqrt{not}>all fixed then ?
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08:29<tmroland>just want to know why those kind of things can happen
08:29<tmroland>besides user error/typos whcih there weren't
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08:33<sqrt{not}>of cuorse not
08:33<grummund>Is there a list debian packages that can edit a pdf document?
08:33*grummund has tried libreoffice but it freezes.
08:34<mendel_munkis>have you tried apt search pdf | grep edit?
08:34<diogenes_oftc>grummund, PDF Master Editor can but it's non-free.
08:36<TLGL>I just had a kernel panic pretty much could not read the UUID so I thought the HDD died after the laptop froze. I rebooted into a live cd and rebuilt init and rebuilt grub after mounting my rootfs and all parts to /mnt then ran a for statement to bind them over the live folders rebuilt initfsvaa that was what gave the error and booted into boxy and rewrote grub just in case
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08:41<grummund>maybe there's a way to process the pdf such that it won't then crash libreoffice.
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09:06<mendel_munkis>grummund: i seem to recall having a good experience editing pdfs with evince
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09:09<grummund>thanks
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10:35<manjaro-user>salut le peuple
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10:41<TLGL>I'm trying to fix my Bluetooth and wireless I'm on bullseye and I'm pretty sure it's a Broadcom I know because I had to use a wrapper before when I was offline and it never worked as my onboard nice is broken and I needed to buy a usb nic to
10:41<TLGL>Get my laptop online
10:42<TLGL>Nice=nic
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10:49<nvz>TLGL: fwiw you said two things "bullseye" and "broadcom" that are gonna make people silent in here.. and you didnt provide any actual details
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10:49<nvz>TLGL: testing/unstable support is in #debian-next and broadcom-sta-dkms or such is probably what you need
10:50<nvz>TLGL: in the future you need to provide an actual hardware id like that from lspci -nn or lsusb
10:50<TLGL>I'm not sure which card it is though I was trying to find the command something PCI to probe the devices to find it
10:50<TLGL>That's it thanks
10:51<TLGL>BCM 4313
10:52<nvz>thats not a hardware id
10:52<nvz>hardware ids are 8 hexidecimal digits
10:52<nvz>but I get the point none the less
10:53<TLGL>Alright 14e3:4727
10:53<TLGL>Oops 14e4
10:53<nvz>yes, you will need broadcom-sta-dkms
10:54<nvz>and probably one of the firmware packages
10:55<TLGL>Ok I guess I'll finish this convo in next as I just installed the 5.8 kernel and I'm sure that it is not going to work as it is dkms
10:56<nvz>uh.. dkms doesn't work on 5.8?
10:57<nvz>you can build the driver manually with broadcom-sta-source
10:57<nvz>the dkms is just simpler
10:57<TLGL>Just rebooting my laptop now to see what issues may arise when I reboot I thought things like the Nvidia and VMware didn't work as they are dkms
10:57<nvz>heh
10:57<nvz>something tells me you got no idea what you're doing
10:58<TLGL>I lnow
10:58<nvz>for dkms or ANY module building to work you need kernel headers
10:58<nvz>has nothing to do with kernel version really.. just lack of headers for the kernel in question
10:58<nvz>you also need the build tools
10:58<nvz>like those provided by the build-essential metapackage
10:59<TLGL>I do believe I have that installed
10:59<nvz>dkms is merely just a framework for automatically building modules when you install/upgrade a kernel
10:59<nvz>its so you dont have to rebuild your drivers manually
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11:00<TLGL>Is there a way to see what the output of when your device boots up and says ok or failed I had an error on my Bluetooth I didn't get to see
11:00<nvz>it hooks that into the package system so when kernel packages are installed, they run the dkms hooks and build the drivers for you
11:00<nvz>TLGL: journalctl -k
11:00*nvz winces
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11:01<nvz>just so happens I filed a bug on that exact question just yesterday :P
11:01<TLGL>I'm new but I'm learning I read up on a lot of things to try to catch up to years of usage that teaches you things
11:02<nvz>TLGL: yeah, well you're plenty capable it seems.. though I'd inquire as to why you're running bullseye
11:02<TLGL>I bought a Linux game that required a package that was only availnin bullseye
11:02<nvz>which package?
11:03<nvz>and how are you playin games if your nvidia drivers are failing to build? :P
11:03<TLGL>And I wanted to play civ vi the new expansion. I'm trying to remember
11:03<TLGL>I'm on ati
11:03*nvz chuckles
11:03<TLGL>I just read about Nvidia not working on the kernel I just had installed
11:03*nvz doesnt bother asking why you're building nvidia dkms with ATI
11:04<TLGL>I'm not
11:04<nvz>TLGL: is your game working for you then?
11:05<TLGL>Well weird thing I didn't get it to work yet and it's not giving Kuch more than a simple line error i got other games working and I believe I finally figured out what the forums were talking about by adding a game I'd and I seen it in lutris todaym
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11:06<nvz>TLGL: you bought this on steam?
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11:06<TLGL>Yes
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11:07<nvz>hmm.. I've not much experience with steam, as I'm not really a gamer and I hate digital marketplaces, but what little I did test, worked for me on Debian 10 Buster
11:08<TLGL>I can play the windows version but that would require me playing via proton and I haven't quite got it working yet via proton but I have just changed my default wine directory to 32 bit so I was going to test it with thief
11:10<nvz>idk I got some rather old games I play seldomly in either wine or crossover.. Halo, GTASA, Madden 08, Twisted Metal 2, etc..
11:11<nvz>I didnt care for steam though.. when all this pandemic crap happened I had found myself sitting around with nothing better to do and spent a good amount of time exploring the possibility of gaming on steam
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11:13<nvz>like most things today steam's interface seems more geared toward wasting your time and making other people rich than giving you what you want
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11:14<nvz>but then I didnt know what i was looking for.. and perhaps a gamer who knows more what they're looking for its not so bad
11:14<TLGL>You should try prison architect there are two expansions which are free the rest are rather cheap I think I bought it for ten cents on a flash salr
11:15<nvz>well you gotta keep in mind I only have some thinkpads with Intel 4400HD integrated graphics.. which severly limits my gaming :P
11:15<nvz>one thing that annoyed me with steam is I couldn't just tell it that, and have it only show me what I could actually concievably play
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11:16<TLGL>Prison architect runs on my crappy laptop this laptop in windows when you launch a game will overheats the GPU then shut off the display only way to get it running is to shut off the system hard boot and then load up windows again. In Linux I have no issues like that
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11:18<TLGL>I'm trying to get a new laptop but I'm stuck with what I have for now I need my I believe eight core and desktop running Windows as I have a wfh contract that requires I send in computer specs and network specs every three months to make sure my PC's he specs are still in compliance
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11:19<nvz>well, I'm not lookin to buy a game right now, but I have enjoyed similar games in the past when I was a kid.. those sim type games.. so I will keep it in mind if I find myself bored again
11:20<TLGL>You could always find the free version you know in those places where things might be free and test it out if you like it but the game to support Linux game dev
11:20<nvz>TLGL: that sounds crazy to me, I never heard of such a thing
11:20<TLGL>Buy not but
11:21<nvz>TLGL: is this computer provided by the employer or its yours and you just need to keep it to spec?
11:22<TLGL>I needed libopenal.so.1 I believe it was version .26 required Buster had .20 and bullseye had .28
11:22<TLGL>It's my PC
11:23<nvz>yeah sounds like a crappy arrangement, but if you're making money stayin at home, I guess its a compromise
11:23<nvz>,file libopenal.so.1
11:23<judd>Search for libopenal.so.1 in buster/amd64: libopenal1: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libopenal.so.1
11:24<TLGL>Cities skylines required the same thing and I haven't got them working but I got Euro Truck Simulator 2 working
11:24<nvz>,v libopenal1
11:24<judd>Package: libopenal1 on amd64 -- jessie: 1:1.15.1-5; stretch: 1:1.17.2-4+b2; buster: 1:1.19.1-1; bullseye: 1:1.19.1-1+b1; sid: 1:1.19.1-1+b1
11:24<nvz>TLGL: yeah those truck simulators I thought looked cool
11:24<nvz>TLGL: but really didnt seem like something my hardware could handle
11:25<nvz>,checkbackport libopenal1
11:25<judd>Backporting package libopenal1 in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster.
11:26<TLGL>Put it on low graphics Linux games run on lower end graphics I played doom 3 on a crappy p4 with ht the original one in laptops that were actually desktop procs and would over heat it actually turned my windows sticker pure white from the heat
11:26<nvz>TLGL: see.. the thing is, testing/unstable branches of debian are moving targets with frequent breakages.. we tend to recommend for both your experience and our sanity in supporting it, that you use stable.. and from what I just did here with our Ultimate Debian Database bot, shows that backporting the newer openal library to buster could've been done rather painlessly
11:26<nvz>TLGL: so you went and used a potentially more buggy entire system for one thing we could've told you how to fix
11:26<TLGL>Wait
11:27<TLGL>We checked that day for what it was and it was not available
11:27<TLGL>I had backports setup
11:27<nvz>yes, I'm not talking about a premade backport
11:27<nvz>I'm talking about you backporting it yourself
11:27<TLGL>Ah I just read about that today
11:28<nvz>we have this ssb proccedure, and this library is a golden candidate for such an easy backport
11:28<nvz>dpkg, what is ssb?
11:28<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
11:28<nvz>you could've easily have backported the bullseye or sid libopenal to buster yourself
11:29<TLGL>But there was more than just that so.1 there was I think a new version of glibc I needed bullseye for my memory isnt to well since I spent a month in total in ICU from when I was a sliver away from stings year ago
11:29<nvz>TLGL: not all of us are particularly knowledgable about everything.. thats why this is a group effort kinda thing.. heh
11:30<TLGL>Oh I wonder why not going to throw the person under the bus didnt mention this and they support quite a bit
11:30<TLGL>Stings = dying
11:31<nvz>often where gaming is concerned you will run into cases where the simpler option is a newer distro.. but gaming is almost like a production server in the fact that you dont wanna have your gaming rig breakin all the time
11:31<nvz>so you really gotta weigh the options
11:33<TLGL>Yes I was reading about xanmod liquorix and pf custom debian kernels and they are running the newer ones and it seems that nothing is broken except my Bluetooth and wireless so I was trying to try to find a way to test them out to see if they really give the extra gaming boost as everyone says they do on my system
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11:34<nvz>yeah I've heard of them recently.. I'm skeptical :P
11:35<nvz>been around long enough and seen enough ricers in my day
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11:36<TLGL>They do have the bench marks to back them up but that's why I wanted to find a way to safely test them and I was not sure on how I could do a safe restore in case it doesn't work and I would have to wipe my system to go to btrfs to get snapshot support
11:37<nvz>yeah.. I've seen a benchmark or two in my day as well :P
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11:37<TLGL>Yup hence the reason I was going to test it out on my system
11:37<nvz>watched a guy on youtube last night performing one while polling his cpu with other apps, changing displays and crap.. totally skewing his benchmark :P
11:38<TLGL>For better or worse
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11:38<TLGL>CPT Janeway to the bridge voyager1
11:38<TLGL>Lolz
11:38<nvz>yeah, well.. I dont think in the case of gaming that the kernel is typically the big problem
11:39<TLGL>It says it improves the io along other things
11:39<nvz>and the star trek refrences are lost on me
11:39<TLGL>There is someone named voyager that just joined
11:40<nvz>ah.. I ignore joins/parts/quits on high volume channels
11:41<TLGL>It's at what costs do they improve just games at where a vanilla kernel has everything else to worry about and just not only games
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11:42<nvz>yeah well thats the thing.. I got this huge cnc machine sitting here in my living room I been building.. and I thought to myself, hey.. why not toss in a graphics card, to improve RT performance by not using onboard gpu.. and turns out.. the RT performance of the CNC software is actually better without the video card :P
11:43<TLGL>Lol
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11:43<TLGL>There was this cpu instruction set I believe it said firmware that I installed from non free I wisj
11:44<TLGL>I remembered the name of it as it actually made my computer runabit faster
11:44<nvz>microcode?
11:45<TLGL>Can't remember it was on this gaming setup guide I found for wine and Linux
11:45<nvz>dpkg, what is microcode?
11:45<dpkg>Microcode are instructions/structures for implementing high-level machine code within processors. The Linux kernel can load updated microcode on most x86 processors. Microcode patches for Intel and AMD64 CPUs are packaged for Debian as intel-microcode and amd64-microcode respectively; installing the relevant package is recommended to ensure system stability. Ask me about <non-free sources>. http://wiki.debian.org/Microcode
11:45<TLGL>I believe that was it
11:46<TLGL>Let me check apt
11:47<TLGL>Nope I don't have that installed but I am installing it now
11:48<TLGL>Ok it lied it said I didn't have it installed but I really did when I tried to install it
11:49<nvz>yeah microcode like most firmware, is in volitile memory, typically loaded on each boot by your BIOS/EFI or the kernel
11:50<nvz>allows you to more simply update it, while preventing your from like bricking your cpu
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11:51<TLGL>I remember this old program for 386-586 processors that allowed you to do the same to add features to your cpu like you had an improved cpu it did work till your cpu got too hot as those old fans were the bomb not lol
11:52<TLGL>Stock fans I mean
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11:53<nvz>yeah well amature modders.. like people who put a supercharger on the intake of their car and don't upgrade the exhaust, wonder why they blew their engine up
11:53<nvz>dont realize race cars have different cam shaft timings, different exhausts, etc.. its all tuned together
11:54<TLGL>Yea it didn't do any damage as it did the same just software changes till you power cycled
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11:55<nvz>but PC manufacturers dont make it any easier the way they skimp on hardware either.. most store bought PCs only have enough PSU to handle whats in em, and often enough these days are underspec for what software comes on them
11:56<nvz>I know plenty of people who bought into machines with those AMD APU and Win10 and wonder why its slow as snail shit
11:56<TLGL>I was reading about improving your coding timing by adding I believe a tempfs not 100% sure but it would store it in ram and force other apps to use swap but it actually recommended using swap
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11:57<TLGL>I have a crappy laptop with an and APU it doesn't seem that bad just I need a faster HDD I believe might only be a 4200 rpm knowing hp
11:59<TLGL>So I tried journalctl -k as restricted user didn't work tried it after with @!! Still said journalctl was not found would I need to do su -l or install something nvz
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12:01<nvz>TLGL: yes, to access kernel messages you need to be root
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12:01<nvz>but journalctl itself should run as any user
12:01<TLGL>Ok it worked yes @!! Types the same command as Sudo
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12:05<sdvd>Is there monodoc like glibc browser??
12:05<sdvd>monodoc-browser like
12:06<TLGL>I'm not sure :(
12:06<nvz>keep trying.. that was almost parsable
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12:10<nvz>sdvd: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/dir_section_3.html https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/index.html
12:12<sqrt{not}>,v monodoc-browser
12:12<judd>Package: monodoc-browser on amd64 -- jessie: 3.10-1; stretch: 4.2-2
12:12<nvz>yeah, I think they are asking if there is something like monodoc-browser for glibc
12:13<nvz>they just apparently struggle with the syntax of English :P
12:14<sqrt{not}>,v monodoc-http
12:14<judd>Package: monodoc-http on amd64 -- jessie: 3.10-1; stretch: 4.2-2; bullseye: 4.2-3; buster: 4.2-3; sid: 4.2-3
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12:25<TLGL>Boo reading journalctl I found my APU has 512mb vram and 1024 GTT with that being said is there anyway of increasing the grt?
12:25<TLGL>GTT?
12:27<twb>you probably want at least double that many millibytes, to get a whole byte
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12:29<TLGL>From what I read 1024 is my ram so I was hoping there would be a way to increase that from 1-4
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12:31<TLGL>But my HDD is udma/100 is there some way of increasing the speed I know sometimes on windows a drive will go into Pio mode which will make the HDD read slow so I was wondering if this was happening here or just the way things are?
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12:32<twb>isn't UDMA, like, a parallel ATA thing
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12:33<twb>huh, I guess AHCI devices still report UDMA6
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12:34<nvz>guess this one needs updating
12:34<nvz>!udma
12:34<dpkg>i heard udma is a fast (66/100 MB/s burst) standard for DMA transfers, mostly used by modern harddisks. The standard is also called UATA, ATA/66 and ATA/100. To get it working with 2.2 kernels, you'll need a kernel patch, recent 2.3 and 2.4-test kernels have support built in. A howto can be found at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/archived/Ultra-DMA/index.html, or UDMA 133 is the new standard for harddisks bigger than 137GB. its using now 48bit LBA instead of ...
12:34<twb>Oh sorry I thought this was ##hardware
12:34<twb>where being a smartarse is allowed
12:35<TLGL>Lol is there a hw chan
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12:36<twb>TLGL: AFAIK APUs use regular system RAM as video RAM. I have seen a couple that let you change how much of the system RAM is reserved for the GPU, but I don't think it's very common
12:37<twb>TLGL: what is your actual end goal?
12:37<TLGL>Yes there is also dedicated vram reported also. It was a you never know till you ask.
12:37<TLGL>Trying to get as much speed/performance from .y
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12:37<TLGL>My hw
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12:42<twb>You're writing parsers in C?
12:42<twb>Those are CPU-bound; the GPU is not involved.
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12:44<TLGL>Found my Bluetooth error HTTPS://paste.debian.net/1163783/
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12:51<TLGL>I'm searching google right now trying to find a driver for this and my Broadcom 43.xx drivers if you know of anything I could find to get this sorted let me know
12:53<sqrt{not}>!brcmsmac
12:53<dpkg>brcmsmac (brcm80211 prior to Linux 2.6.39) is an open source <mac80211> driver, supporting 802.11n PCIe devices based on Broadcom <BCM4313>, <BCM43224> and <BCM43225> chips. Firmware is required (bcm43xx-0.fw, bcm43xx_hdr-0.fw), ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-brcm80211 package to provide. Access point and adhoc modes are supported since Linux 3.10. https://wiki.debian.org/brcm80211
12:54<sqrt{not}>TLGL, which broadcom 43.xx xx = ?
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13:15<TLGL>Will that driver work for both Bluetooth and wireless or am I still looking for Bluetooth?
13:17<sqrt{not}>I don't see that bluetooth firmware anywhere here, but it should help the wireless
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13:20<TLGL>Darn I was hoping to use bt for my wireless controllers for gaming
13:21<TLGL>Starting tomorrow you can use your Xbox one controller to play Xbox one Games on your phones
13:21<sney>broadcom support in linux sucks, if you need bluetooth you will probably need a separate usb adapter
13:21<sney>they're pretty cheap though
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13:30<TLGL>I guess I should connect to a vpn on my phone I keep disconnecting when I switch from data to a hotspot from my cable ISP around the city
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14:23<ham5urg>Is there a bash tool for to store variables in simple maps, vectors or multimaps. I tried jq and json but json is a pain.
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14:27<cc>uh perl?
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14:28<cc>perl -E 'my $map = {key => "value", otherkey => 123}; print $map->{key}'
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14:41<Habbie>or python or lua or basically a lot of things that are not bash
14:41<Habbie>bash has simple maps i think
14:41<Habbie>that you could stack
14:41<Habbie>but madness is that way
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14:47<petn-randall>ham5urg: If you already need those kind of data structures it's time to switch to a more suitable scripting language.
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14:48<ham5urg>petn-randall, yes. I'm looking into python right now
14:48<Habbie>good choice; just don't get tempted to add 'python one liners' to a bash script, that's how you'd get the worst of both worlds
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16:25-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:9234:0:a9e6:f398:8916:76fe] has joined #debian
16:25-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-next #debian-social #debian-meeting #debian
16:27-!-matt_ [~quassel@62-64-226-238.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #debian
16:27-!-matt_ is "mpatey" on #debian #freedombox
16:28-!-matt_ is now known as Guest883
16:29-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:29-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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16:30-!-tejr_ is "Tom Ryder" on #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian-lts #debian
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16:32-!-free4fun is "free4fun" on #debian-devel-es #debian-mentors-es #debian-uy #debian-es #debian
16:32-!-Iarfen [~quassel@2800:300:62a1:ffb0::9] has joined #debian
16:32-!-Iarfen is "Iarfen,,," on @##aaas #debian
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16:34-!-tejr_ is now known as tejr
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16:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 723] by debhelper
16:50-!-TLGL [~TLGL@137.220.36.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
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16:51-!-TLGL is "TLGL" on #debian-next #debian
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16:53-!-TLGL is "TLGL" on #debian-next #debian
16:55-!-adlpaf-mobile [~adlpaf-mo@pc-95-230-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #debian
16:55-!-adlpaf-mobile is "adlpaf-mobile" on #debian-mentors-es #debian-devel-es #debian
16:55-!-ConvexEd [~ConvexEd@185.229.59.203] has joined #debian
16:55-!-ConvexEd is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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16:57-!-unwisely is "qwepas" on #kernelnewbies #lxde #ceph-devel #debian-glibc #ovirt #msys2
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16:58-!-imega [~coma@2a02:120b:2c65:11b0:1682:836f:db5a:6e6f] has joined #debian
16:58-!-imega is "coma" on #debian #ceph
17:02-!-sherab [~sherab_@95.145.248.13] has joined #debian
17:02-!-sherab is "sherab" on #debian
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17:09-!-hiya-- [~ll@238.234.86.88.rdns.comcable.net] has joined #debian
17:09-!-hiya-- is "dunno what to put here" on #debian #ceph #freedombox #redditprivacy #revolution #linux #msys2 #C #tor-bots #debian-glibc #qemu #ovirt #oftc #lxde #ceph-devel #virtualization #kernelnewbies #debian-next #virt #zcash
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17:10-!-Luticus is "Luticus" on #debian
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17:16-!-towo` is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #qemu #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
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17:21-!-adlpaf-mobile is "adlpaf-mobile" on #debian-mentors-es #debian-devel-es #debian
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17:24-!-ac_laptop2 is "ac_laptop" on #debian
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17:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 717] by debhelper
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17:33-!-f10_ is "f10" on #debian
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17:35-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-87-16-140-16.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
17:35-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #vcs-home #debian #cell
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17:36-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
17:37-!-user [~user@0BGAAB7GT.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:37-!-user is "user" on #debian
17:37<user>Hello
17:38-!-user is now known as Guest888
17:38-!-sherab [~sherab_@95.145.248.13] has joined #debian
17:38-!-sherab is "sherab" on #debian
17:39-!-galex-713 [~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu] has joined #debian
17:39-!-galex-713 is "Alexandre François Garreau,,," on #debian
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17:44-!-marc50a [~Mibbit@238.234.86.88.rdns.comcable.net] has joined #debian
17:44-!-marc50a is "http://www.mibbit.com" on #debian #tor-bots #ceph #qemu #oftc #C #virtualization #msys2 #ceph-devel #lxde #freedombox #virt #kernelnewbies #debian-next
17:49-!-ac_laptop2 [~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
17:51-!-M4R1N447 [~n447@2001:985:6666:1:24a4:478d:8b17:4a7a] has joined #debian
17:51-!-M4R1N447 is "realname" on #debian
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17:57-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
17:57-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
17:58-!-ac_laptop2 [~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129] has joined #debian
17:58-!-ac_laptop2 is "ac_laptop" on #packaging #debian-next #debian
18:01<M4R1N447>test
18:01<sney>!test
18:01<dpkg>Test failed.
18:01<M4R1N447>:-)
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18:04-!-haywoo is "HayWo" on #linux.de #debian-nginx #debian #c++
18:04-!-busch_ [~busch@mail.datenschleuder.com] has joined #debian
18:04-!-busch_ is "busch" on #debian
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18:04-!-Grauwolf_ is "grauwolf" on #debian
18:04-!-CyberManifest [~CyberMani@50-25-206-180.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has joined #debian
18:04-!-CyberManifest is "Ryan" on #debian #oftc #debian-next
18:04-!-JanC [~janc@2a02:578:85fd:500:81f0:857a:305f:acf9] has joined #debian
18:04-!-JanC is "Jan Claeys" on #debian #epfsug #ext4 #quodlibet #bcache #xonsh
18:04-!-sep_ [~sep@2a05:6d40:0:147:ae1f:6bff:fef6:4afe] has joined #debian
18:04-!-sep_ is "Ronny Aasen <ronny@aasen.cx>" on #debian #virt #ceph
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18:05<M4R1N447>pff hangry
18:05-!-themill_ [~stuart@2a01:4f8:c2c:47d0::1] has joined #debian
18:05-!-themill_ is "Stuart Prescott" on #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-au #debian
18:06-!-Hobbyboy|BNC [Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk] has joined #debian
18:06-!-Hobbyboy|BNC is "Andrew" on #qemu #perl #openttd #oftc #msys2 #lxde #linode #help #debian #YourBNC #C #/r/openttd
18:06-!-Kaiserpinguin_ [~quassel@2a03:4000:6:537c::1:6] has joined #debian
18:06-!-Kaiserpinguin_ is "tux" on #debian
18:06<M4R1N447>hi hobbyboy
18:06-!-testian [~quassel@2a02:120b:c3c5:7040:3ea8:2aff:fe9f:20b4] has joined #debian
18:06-!-testian is "Dietrich Helexien" on #hardware #docker #debian #roccat #xrdp #debian-next
18:06-!-cacatoess [~weechat@2a01:e35:2428:e4e0:216:3eff:feca:ca08] has joined #debian
18:06-!-cacatoess is "weechat" on #debian #debian-next
18:06-!-spacedentist_ [~quassel@hunson.server.spacedentist.net] has joined #debian
18:06-!-spacedentist_ is "Sven Over" on #debian
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18:06-!-noettore_afk is "Ettore" on #debian
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18:06-!-Grizzly_ is "Grizzly" on #debian
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18:06-!-drabard_ is "drabard" on #debian
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18:08-!-rdo is now known as Guest898
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18:08-!-themill_ is now known as themill
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18:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 705] by debhelper
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18:10-!-Daedbffe [~Daedbeef@2001:8b0:7a51:2f67:cafe:beef:daed:bffe] has joined #debian
18:10-!-Daedbffe is "Daedbeef" on @#openvpn-as @#openvpn @#kibana ##linux @##proxmox @##overflow @#juniper @#innernetworking #debian #cloudflare #ceph @#a&a
18:10-!-rdo` [~rdo@contabo.bokomoko.de] has joined #debian
18:10-!-rdo` is "Rainer" on #debian
18:10-!-rdo` is now known as rdo
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18:13-!-mikkel is "mikkel" on #debian-kde #debian
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18:15-!-f10__ [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
18:15-!-f10__ is "f10" on #debian
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18:15-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:15-!-s67ah [~s67ah@2001:16a2:5231:600:6e5b:6232:846b:3161] has joined #debian
18:15-!-s67ah is "realname" on #debian
18:15<s67ah>ijjfhhfnvnife
18:15<s67ah>hello
18:15<sarnold>s67ah: was that a password that needs to be changed?
18:16-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-87-16-140-16.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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18:16-!-ifvoid is "Bas Zoetekouw" on #spi #yasigi #debian
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18:16-!-fdelapena is "Francisco de la Peña" on #virt #packaging #debian-latam #debian-es #debian
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18:25-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian
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18:29-!-l0nghaul28 [~AdminUser@2605:6000:1712:232c::4b8] has joined #debian
18:29-!-l0nghaul28 is ",,," on #debian
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18:30-!-l0nghaul28 is ",,," on #debian @#CQDX
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18:34-!-narispo [~narispo@2a01:e0a:2a2:1590:6446:c7fc:e20b:84bf] has joined #debian
18:34-!-narispo is "narispo" on #debian #bcache
18:36-!-s67ah [~s67ah@2001:16a2:5231:600:6e5b:6232:846b:3161] has quit []
18:37<nvz>lookd more like cat on the keyboard to me.. that nick isn't registered
18:38<sarnold>haha cat
18:40-!-dftxbs3e__ [~dftxbs3e@82-64-145-38.subs.proxad.net] has quit []
18:41-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e003:854:6901:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
18:41-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
18:41<EmleyMoor>Just booted using refind, finished with "No root devices specified..." and to BusyBox. How do I now proceed to fixing GRUB?
18:42<sarnold>my guess: try dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc (bios) or grub-efi (uefi)
18:43-!-andre [~smuxi@212.37.165.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:45<EmleyMoor>I can't do that yet. That's to fix, not to proceed
18:45-!-dftxbs3e [~dftxbs3e@2a01:e0a:2a2:1590:2e09:4dff:fe00:1dc] has joined #debian
18:45-!-dftxbs3e is "realname" on #ovirt #packaging #debian #qemu #virt
18:45-!-ConvexEd [~ConvexEd@185.229.59.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:47-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:48<ach>!rescue-cd
18:48-!-ac_laptop2 [~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 699] by debhelper
18:53<EmleyMoor>Machine now powers off early in boot if I specify the root!
18:53-!-Guest868 [~james@pool-71-176-233-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:56<EmleyMoor>Seems to be proceeding a bit better this time
18:57-!-ConvexEd [~ConvexEd@ip24-255-181-212.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #debian
18:57-!-ConvexEd is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
19:01<EmleyMoor>Unfortunately I won't be able to test just yet
19:01-!-CyberManifest [~CyberMani@50-25-206-180.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has joined #debian
19:01-!-CyberManifest is "Ryan" on #debian #oftc #debian-next
19:05-!-Whitemoor [aeeb3cda36@firthpark.tinsleyviaduct.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:07<aloo_shu>asking for a friend: versatile free pdf editor/reader, especially wanted: text highlighting & annotations ?
19:09<aloo_shu>contrib prolly also fine
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19:09<sney>okular
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19:11<nvz>yeah well friends don't let friends edit pdfs..
19:12<nvz>almost any utilitiy /can/ do it from inkscape, okular, libreoffice draw, gimp.. you name it
19:12<sney>okular handles highlighting, annotation, and forms. as for actually editing... imo it's not worth it, just make a new one
19:13<nvz>but the problem is its a proprietary format and a very crappy one.. and usually someone doing this kinda thing is doing it because they're dealing with people who have bought the whole damn adobe suite.. and chances are there are things like encryption or such free software can't handle
19:13<nvz>what you do is, convert the pdf to ps and work with that.. and basically tell people shoving pdf down your throat to grow up
19:13<nvz>pdf needs to die
19:14<sney>I don't disagree in principle, but it won't happen as long as we still have printing (which arguably should also die)
19:14<nvz>printers tend to support postscript
19:15<sney>but IME the only pdfs that okular can't handle are the ones that download another, more different pdf after you open them. which the canadian government loves, for some reason. in-browser readers can't handle those either and they truly require acrobat
19:16<nvz>you're in for nothing but a world of pain with pdf.. the best way to use them is to delete them
19:16<sney>would that this were a choice people could make, at the receiving end
19:17<sney>"I refuse to fill out this tax form because I oppose pdfs" let's see where that takes you
19:17<nvz>I've done it a time or two.. usually for govt.. and I convert them to ps first
19:18<aloo_shu>okular is what he's currently testing, and yes, he's probably fine as long as annotating & higlighting work
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19:19<nvz>work in my experience is a really loose term
19:19<aloo_shu>I just thought there maybe was a secret outlier
19:19<nvz>you play hell trying to get things to line up properly and you run into all kinds of unsupported features
19:20<aloo_shu>uni is what's forcing him
19:20<nvz>and most utilities just slice em up into ps or images or something anyhow to work for them
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19:20<nvz>s/for/with/
19:20<nvz>I'd very honestly tell the damn uni to provide me with the software
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19:21<nvz>if they're gonna work with a ridiculous proprietary format
19:22<nvz>pdf like flash and other trash adobe had bought, may have served a purpose at one time.. but that was a LONG time ago
19:22<aloo_shu>ofc, thousands of students are having similar problems, but I wouldn't know where all of this is coming together as coordinated pressure on decision makers
19:22<nvz>none the less I'd have a look at this https://itsfoss.com/pdf-editors-linux/
19:23<nvz>breaks down current software and its pdf features nicely
19:24<aloo_shu>these poeple are having the very tangible 'purpose' of passing their exams, and too much to read to be much in a campaigning mood, good luck convincing them pdf served no purpose
19:24<nvz>need a grassroots kinda campaign against pdf.. thats the kinda thing college/university students do.. world is in a crisis right now.. last thing we need is proprietary formats that require expensive software
19:25<nvz>you just gotta pitch it right :P
19:26<nvz>its archaic technology, its not easy to work with even with the official tools, they cost a lot, there is a global economic crisis
19:26<aloo_shu>not sure 'grassroots' and 'university' realities do overlap today as they did 50 years ago
19:27<aloo_shu>anyway, elpa, gpdftext, anybody used these
19:29<nvz>you really gotta try it and see with these things.. as we all implied, pdf is not pdf.. they're all different.. one pdf is different than another pdf and how any given software will suit any particular use case will vary
19:29<nvz>that article I posted shows screenshots, feature breakdowns, and explains the two main ways of doing it
19:30<nvz>and its all up-to-date with the current active projects that have software that can do it
19:30<aloo_shu>ah
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19:31<sney>if I'm using a pdf as designed, I use okular. if I need to shred a pdf or rebuild it for some reason, pdftk and/or libreoffice draw.
19:32<sney>and if I need to submit something as a pdf, and the first option doesn't fly for whatever reason, I will usually just make a new one in libreoffice writer.
19:32<nvz>there is a reason FOSS hasn't been able to fully address this issue after all these years
19:33<nvz>and its because pdf is not a one-size-fits-all simple kinda deal
19:33<sney>and I support the anti-pdf revolution but I'm not gonna lead it, so I guess I won't do anything in that regard until one happens.
19:34<nvz>we've cracked countless things over the years.. filesystems, document formats, entire OS apis..
19:34<nvz>and yet pdf remains hit and miss.. that should tell ya something
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19:36<nvz>for something so widely used to be so poorly implemented indicates just what a damn nightmare it can be
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22:38-!-Surfer2011_ is "Surfer2011" on #debian
22:41-!-epw [~equark@c-71-197-231-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:41-!-epw is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
22:43-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:9234:0:a9e6:f398:8916:76fe] has joined #debian
22:43-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-next #debian-social #debian-meeting #debian
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22:46-!-eQ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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22:55-!-eQ2 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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23:04-!-agentcas1y is "Mark Anthony Paul Hammond" on #debian #qemu
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23:05-!-epw is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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23:06-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
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23:12-!-eQ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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23:26-!-Blue_Hat is "TwinKam20" on #debian
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23:27-!-jello is "Joe Nahmias" on #debian
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23:27-!-jello is "Joe Nahmias" on #debian
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23:33-!-mav1 is "mav" on #debian
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23:34-!-inkbottle is "inkbottle" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies
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23:37-!-KoaX is "realname" on #debian
23:38-!-KoaX is now known as Guest915
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23:41-!-eQ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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23:46-!-epw is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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23:47-!-Tempesta is "ChoiKyuSang" on #debian
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23:53-!-nyov is now known as Guest917
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23:53-!-nyov is "nyov" on #debian-offtopic #oftc #debian #luakit
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23:58-!-eQ2 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
23:59<alex11>does everyone use firefox esr here or just firefox?
23:59<alex11>i'm ok with esr for now
---Logclosed Tue Sep 15 00:00:00 2020