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#debian IRC Logs for 2020-11-20

---Logopened Fri Nov 20 00:00:04 2020
---Daychanged Fri Nov 20 2020
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00:34<Guest6364>I think installer should have more software selections, like install office (libreoffice vs openoffice vs calligra vs abiword), install web browser (firefox vs chromium vs midori vs falkon vs epyphani vs conqueror vs surf vs netsurf vs luakit vs qutebrowser), install document viewer (zathura vs atril vs evince vs okular vs qpdfview vs xpdf vs gv) and so on
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00:35<Guest6364>not everyone needs office and firefox on desktop
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00:43<jm_>then someone will want the same for video player, editor, shell and it would never stop
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01:27<Guest6364>jm_: then how about not installing office, browser and other crap in the first place so that user doesn't need to remove them when replacing with favourite alternatives?
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01:28<Guest6364>first of all office must go, most desktop users don't need it
01:29<diogenes_oftc>most users need both.
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01:32<Guest6364>diogenes_oftc: in 15 years of using computers I never used office, nowadays people mostly need web browser and that web browser must not be firefox
01:33<Guest6364>my friends never used office too
01:34<Guest6364>so who are your most? those people too lazy to remove office when participating in popularity contest?
01:34<diogenes_oftc>Guest6364, did you make any studies on the subject? got any statistics of how many ppl use office?
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01:36<Guest6364>diogenes_oftc: I don't need those studies to notice that people around me who use computers at home don't use office
01:36<Guest6364>maybe that's because office is used in office, not home?
01:37<diogenes_oftc>that's narrow thinking, sorry.
01:37<Guest6364>your statistics at popcon are a lie from lazy people
01:38<Guest6364>also libreoffice is ridiculous, normally people use microsoft office
01:38<Guest6364>and they use it at work
01:38<EmleyMoor>Guest6364: Ever heard of freedom?
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01:41<Guest6364>EmleyMoor: what kind of freedom are you talking about? freedom to force libreoffice to be preinstalled without the option to not install this shit in the first place? it wastes bandwidth
01:41<EmleyMoor>Freedom to steer clear of Microsoft
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01:42<Guest6364>microsoft is already a part of linux foundation, they develop linux, mesa, the software you use
01:43<Guest6364>so are you really clear?
01:45<EmleyMoor>You've got Microsoft "this", do you HAVE to have Microsoft "that" if you need "that" at all, or should you be left free to choose a competing "that"?
01:45<Guest6364>also don't forget to tell that to people who can't make money with libreoffice because it's not 100% compatible with microsoft office
01:45<Guest6364>ask them "freedom or your stomach?"
01:46<EmleyMoor>Guest6364: Choice or foisting?
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01:48<Guest6364>libreoffice is simply a crap that almost nobody needs, in my town people at work use microsoft office to keep their business functioning
01:49<Guest6364>because libreoffice would destroy businesses
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01:52<Guest6364>people who need office can install it themselves, just like people who need gimp can install it themselves, but you don't preinstall gimp
01:53<Guest6364>I'm sure there are more artists who need gimp and krita at home than people who need libreoffice at home
01:55<EmleyMoor>I'm sure there are people on this channel who need this discussion like they need a hole in the head
01:56<Guest6364>there wouldn't be need for this discussion if libreoffice and firefox were not pre-installed
01:57<Guest6364>DE-specific office (like calligra for kde) and DE-specific web browser (like falkon for lxqt) make more sense than libreoffice and firefox everywhere
02:01<Guest6364>because people installing kde expect having all those beautiful kde apps, people who install lxde expect having no more than needed to have their desktop working
02:04<EmleyMoor>Guest6364: I have not found libreoffice to be pre-installed... as for firefox, it's probably the most mainstream of the readily-available options
02:05<Guest6364>no, chromium is the most mainstream
02:05<Guest6364>you are like fedora who lie that firefox is the most popular open source web browser
02:06<Guest6364>but even fedora doesn't pre-install firefox at every DE
02:07<EmleyMoor>I can see where you're coming from, but it's not, simply because it's called what it is. I can see how installing *any particular* web browser as standard is a bit frivolous but it probably accounts for at least 70% of what a typical user wants
02:07<Guest6364>and I have fresh debian 10 installs, no matter do I choose lxqt or xfce, libreoffice end up being preinstalled
02:08*EmleyMoor never chooses either but then again rarely does a fresh install
02:10<EmleyMoor>I will concede, it has been installed on my latest fresh install - not totally sure of the justification but it's not a problem
02:10<Guest6364>typical user needs chromium, all others prefer firefox and webkit-based browsers
02:11<EmleyMoor>Guest6364: Typical user is more likely to think firefox ahead of chromium... though this is largely due to the latter's name
02:13<Guest6364>funny, I've seen the opposite happening
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02:14<Guest6364>what do people do after installing windows? install google chrome just to not use explorer and edge because they suck
02:15<Guest6364>s/what do/what most/
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02:16<EmleyMoor>Guest6364: Agreed but that's Google Chrome, not chromium (difference is subtle but in the mind of Joe Public, significant)
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02:16<Guest6364>chromium offers better performance than firefox, especially when using google sites and playing web games
02:17<Guest6364>and it doesn't matter that it spies, because firefox spies too
02:17<EmleyMoor>Indeed and that's all stuff you can train your mentees on... but you have to look where they're starting from
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02:18<Guest6364>also google chrome is chromium with more proprietary features
02:18<EmleyMoor>I am neither your mentor nor your mentee
02:18<Guest6364>or we can call it a chromium binary with proprietary features
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02:20<Guest6364>because google don't offer "pure" chromium binaries
02:20<EmleyMoor>CIWYW. Next point?
02:21<Guest6364>how about this point: you are a liar, typical user doesn't use office and prefers chromium because firefox sucks
02:22<Guest6364>and because explorer and edge suck too
02:23<EmleyMoor>I am *NOT* a liar. I never said anything about typical users and office, and on the broadest definition of "chromium" I agree with you.
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06:08<ap4lmtree>when creating new users for services like sabnzbd or sonarr. shoudl they have their own home directory?
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06:26<koollman>ap4lmtree: I would set their install directory or storage directory as their home directory. But mark them as system account (useradd --system)
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06:27<Artej>Hi, I am getting unknown TPM error in grub, but I was able to boot manually from grub on my flash drive, is there any advice on how to reset/fix my grub? I have setup with EFI and separate /boot partition.
06:31<Artej>ok, tried advice online with sudo grub-install --no-uefi-secure-boot, wish me luck otherwise I have to retype whole thing again :D
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06:33<Artej>and it worked :)
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06:46<Guest6388>hwey fuckers
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07:00<remotecontrolledboy>hey #debian i got my teres fixed and i'm looking into reinstalling debian on it ... i'm looking at debian/dists/buster/main/installer-arm64/current/images/netboot/SD-card-images
07:00<remotecontrolledboy>it seems that none of the images in this subfolder are signed? the mirrors also are not accessible via ssl?
07:01<remotecontrolledboy>i think somebody helped me comprehend this before ... that there is some way to check the signatures ...
07:01<remotecontrolledboy>i was curious what project or team is involved in setting up the distribution-building and mirroring systems, to have or make a bug report or feature request to reference
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07:23<grove>remotecontrolledboy: I think that folder should be accessible via SSL from most mirrors?
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07:26<remotecontrolledboy>grove: when i do curl -v I get a certificate from that doesn't match the domain name
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07:29<grove>I have to be in a meeting in a moment, so I don't have time, but use a different mirror
07:30<remotecontrolledboy>thanks; do you know where to file a bug report?
07:30<remotecontrolledboy>i can check all the mirrors but i want to make sure i'm contributing
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08:02<grove>Now I had he time to check and as far as I can see you get a valid certificate if you just ask for (the mirror you're redirected to, probably the one selected to be - but I'm guessing most mirrors have valid certificates for their own name, and if you're at e.g. OSU there's no good way to get a certificate for, so I don't think it can be much better)
08:04<olasd>ftp.* do /not/ support https
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08:04<olasd>don't use https for these hostnames
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08:10<remotecontrolledboy>thanks grove olasd. it looks like this user hiccup wouldn't happen if mirrors like forwarded to the right domain name with an HTTP 30x Location: header ... i've found the bug tracker, maybe i can look for that
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08:12<blast007>remotecontrolledboy: they're using DNS to point at multiple mirrors, so that won't work.
08:12<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: the issue is tls certificate distribution: ftp.* is managed by the debian system administrators and needs to be able to be repointed to other hosts when the original one has a down time; but the DSAs don't want to distribute keys that sign traffic for ftp.* to mirror administrators
08:12<olasd>a redirect can't really fix that
08:13<koollman>it could, but the machine doing the redirect would need some certificate (but it could be a different machine from the mirror, which could have its own non-debian certificate)
08:15<blast007>so you want to add additional complication and a single point of failure?
08:17<koollman>not arguing that it would add complexity (although, not really 'complication'). And obviously it doesn't have to be a spof
08:17<remotecontrolledboy>well finding a solution would plug the problem where anybody who can provide a DNS record to a subnet can forward people to fake mirrors, but there is likely a simpler solution
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08:17<koollman>depends what you goal is, really
08:17<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: the packages are gpg-signed, though
08:17<blast007>!apt https
08:17<dpkg>Debian packages are signed so that APT can detect if the package has been tampered with or corrupted while being transferred. Debian also depends on mirrors, and coordinating distribution of SSL keys would be very difficult. On the Debian-controlled CDN HTTPS is available for the main archive and also the security archive.
08:18<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: i'm thinking image release, which aren't all signed yet. still, better two locks than one.
08:19<koollman>adding signature to them seems easier than changing the mirror infrastructure :)
08:19<koollman>if you want https, pick a mirror than provides it
08:19<remotecontrolledboy>koollman i'm actually trying to find where to consider issues with both or either atm
08:19<koollman>if you want dns security, I do not know if a mirror explicity uses dnssec, too
08:20<remotecontrolledboy>i guess i just wanted to not be surprised and worried when i got ssl certificate failures =)
08:20<koollman>I wonder how large a mirror is nowadays. at least a restricted one, like amd64+arm64 for stable and oldstable
08:20<blast007>remotecontrolledboy: if you want to use HTTPS with apt, use the CDN
08:20<koollman>I remember it was pretty hard to pick *just* that when mirroring debian mirrrors :)
08:20<remotecontrolledboy>blas007 thanks
08:21<sqrt{not}>remotecontrolledboy: which image release is not signed ?
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08:22<sqrt{not}>hi exe
08:22<Exe>How are you?
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08:23<pumpernickel>koollman here are up2date stats
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08:25<koollman>pumpernickel: not tiny. Still no easy way to split stable and oldstable from the rest ?
08:25<pumpernickel>doh, you are right, I somehow thought they were broken up :/
08:25<remotecontrolledboy>sqrt{not}: i'm looking at /debian/dists/buster/main/installer-arm64/current/images/netboot/SD-card-images
08:25<koollman>only by arch (because it's rather easy)
08:26<koollman>I mean, it's still pretty good, going from 3+ TB to ~ .7TB for the two arch I'm using :)
08:27<koollman>but as I remember it, removing testing/sid helped a lot
08:27<koollman>but it was hard
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08:36<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: i'd propose that certificates for only the specific ftp.* servers be distributed to mirrors, so as to be able to sign traffic forwarded from ftp.* . this would let users who don't verify gpg signatures, at least not run into hitches when they use SSL.
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08:40<olasd>mirrors are third parties and there's no guarantee that they're not tampering with the file contents; checking the gpg signatures on archive metadata is the only way to get a proper trust path from Debian to the files downloaded from mirrors
08:40<olasd>https for debian mirrors is /not/ a substitute for this trust path, and will never be advertised as such
08:41<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: definitely, but there are many situations where gpg is not checked, and SSL can help in those
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08:41<olasd>definitely not in a Debian context, no
08:41<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: i believe both verifying signatures _and_ using ssl need to be made easy and common
08:41<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: you have never downloaded a package manually?
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08:42<koollman>not a debian package. since they can be downloaded by apt :)
08:42<olasd>I don't see how that's relevant to the conversation
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08:42<remotecontrolledboy>when you download a package manually it doesn't get its signatures verified by apt
08:42<olasd>having https on top of that provides exactly zero additional security
08:43<remotecontrolledboy>what's relevant is that gpg signature checking is not presently nuiversal, it is a single point of failure, and ssl is a security norm that should be up to snuff, indicating need for aid in managing security if it isn't
08:43<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: that's quite wrong
08:43<olasd>in the context of the debian archive, gpg signature checking is *definitely* universal
08:43<remotecontrolledboy>https provides strong additional security when gpg is not happening or harmed
08:44<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: there is not even a tool to verify a gpg signature when debugging package downloads. what you say is not true.
08:44<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: false. it only tells you you are connected to a server with a correct certificate
08:44<koollman>tells you nothing about package content and tampering
08:44<olasd>apt is definitely such a tool
08:44<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: apt or gpg
08:45<remotecontrolledboy>there is no reason not to put a second lock on your lock. you are saying that the existing lock is sufficient. i often bypass, i see many websites that recommend bypassing it.
08:45<koollman>but it's not really a second lock
08:45<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: https is putting a drawing of a lock on top of the existing lock
08:46<remotecontrolledboy>well, i see data flowing from developers to my system, and one of the paths can be certified correct by one of the transfer points.
08:46<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: it's a secure way to download a tampered-with package, but that doesn't make it more secure
08:46<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: except that one of the ways it can be tampered with, is during that download.
08:46<olasd>if you want a debian-controlled mirror with https, you can use; but don't be fooled by believing that https gives you any non-tampering guarantees
08:46<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: can't. gpg and checksumming would catch that
08:47<olasd>fastly or whatever the https frontend is these days could definitely alter the packages before serving them to you behing a nice https "lock"
08:47<remotecontrolledboy>koollman, okay, say i invent a secret AI that can crack gpg, but it gets stymied by the server's SSL algorithms. what then?
08:47<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: then you're probably wasting your intellect trying to hack debian mirrors :)
08:47<blast007>this conversation seems unproductive
08:47<olasd>I suggest taking the rest of this conversation to #debian-offtopic
08:48<remotecontrolledboy>if somebody wants to do the work of increasing the reliability of a communication channel, there is no reason to prevent this work
08:48<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: do so. provide ssl-secured mirrors
08:48<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: if people want to use them, they may do so
08:48<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: people are doing this; i am just considering providing easier access via the ftp.* forwarding
08:48<blast007>remotecontrolledboy: if you want HTTPS, then just frickin' use it. It's already available.
08:49<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: not likely to happen unless you can find a reasonable argument for it. 'secret ai breaking gpg' is not reasonable
08:49<olasd>this has been discussed (a lot of times) with the people who manage the ftp.* forwardings; they don't think supporting https is worth the effort
08:49<remotecontrolledboy>blast007: do you have a making-changes-related reason regarding this? or are you just attempting to convince me to decide to avoid the issue?
08:49<blast007>remotecontrolledboy: ftp.* isn't forwarding. It's round robin DNS. You're not the first to suggest this and you won't be the last.
08:49<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: how do i review that discussion?
08:49<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: and of course, it's already solved by a https endpoint which already exist, so ... what is your idea adding ?
08:49<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: feel free to peruse the archives of the debian-mirrors mailing list
08:50<olasd>or maybe debian-project
08:50<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: i have already stated that my idea helps people use the https mirrors by not producing certificate failures. it also increases trust in debian. it sounds like the discussion has already happened somewhere.
08:50<olasd>not sure where the last iteration of this conversation happened...
08:50<remotecontrolledboy>thanks olasd
08:50<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: how does it help compared to using ?
08:50<olasd>providing https on ftp.* would only provide a false sense of trust in something that's not debian, in the name of debian
08:51<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: nobody who tries using https knows to put in [and it is a single point of failure]
08:51<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: it's not a single point of failure at all
08:51<koollman>it's the exact opposite of that :)
08:51<blast007>it's not a single point of failure... it's on a major CDN
08:51<koollman>two major cdn :)
08:51<remotecontrolledboy>i'm sorry if i've upset you guys. you are countering every single expression i make. i believe many of your concerns are specific cases, leaving out the cases where my concerns are relevent.
08:52<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: the single poiunt of failure would be the domain name, then
08:52<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: you just aren't making much sense. maybe the idea to promote would be : make more prominent in documentation or config example
08:52<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: dns is a distributed system, of course
08:52<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: the ftp.* domain entries are actually debian, and do in a small way relate to the sense of trust new users develop
08:53<mosasaur>he probably meant single point of pebkac
08:53<koollman>and if you are arguing for anything with, it is the same dns root. same spof
08:53<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: i am logically backing all my arguments to you. stating i am not making sense, does not make sense.
08:53<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: why would not be a spof, if you consider a spof ?
08:53<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: your alternative proposal is yet another good idea, and needs a place to be proposed and developed, not an argument
08:54<remotecontrolledboy>koollman, maybe it is not a spoof, maybe it is a caching issue
08:54<koollman>same question then :)
08:54<remotecontrolledboy>koollman because a user recently accessed them at different times
08:55<koollman>that seems rather unlikely. but ok, maybe we could imagine having multiple dns entries pointing to that existing service.
08:55<koollman>so if is somehow wrong in the cache, someone could use or something
08:55<remotecontrolledboy>my real point is that i don't believe there being another lock, is a reason to not use a different lock.
08:56<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: but you argue for using https which is already provided by a service doing most of what you want. What's the added value ?
08:56<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: sometimes when a server is down or misconfigured for a time period, requests dureing that period can get stored wrong
08:56<koollman>(not even considering, of course, that you are unlikely to reach consensus for debian mirrors)
08:56<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: how would that be false/better for your idea ?
08:57<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: i am looking at the user experience of resolving https://ftp.*/debian/... . this results in ssl failure, providing users who have the experience of ssl failure downloaidng packages.
08:58<koollman>ok. as I said, maybe it could be more clear with an example line in sources.list for https
08:58<remotecontrolledboy>koollman why do you ask? is it harmful to pursue?
08:58<olasd>https://ftp.* has never been advertised to users
08:58<remotecontrolledboy>koollman yeah =) i think so
08:58<koollman>that seems pretty easy/cheap to do, compared to your idea
08:58<olasd>(by Debian)
08:58<olasd>it's like using https for a random domain name and expecting it to work, really
08:58<remotecontrolledboy>i found it as a mirror a couple places; i didn't know if it wasn't intended to be public; you said this pretty late ...
08:59<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: you don't expect that? it works everywhere
08:59<olasd>14:04:10 olasd ╡ ftp.* do /not/ support https
08:59<olasd>it's literally the first thing I've said
08:59<remotecontrolledboy>olasd sorry i mean that it is not advertised to users by Debian
08:59<remotecontrolledboy>olasd ohhhh you just meant https. yes, definitely, same page.
09:00<remotecontrolledboy>olasd i'm finding that i use a lot of packages without verifying them, and then my debian systems get corrupt and it's very hard to identify the corruption.
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09:00<remotecontrolledboy>olasd i'm looking for contributing to paths to verify that packages are correct.
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09:00<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: how are you getting unverified packages on your system, then ? :)
09:00<koollman>maybe there are better way to fix that
09:01<olasd>https is not a proper solution to the problem of verifying packages downloaded by hand
09:01<remotecontrolledboy>koollman i would rather solve the issues for the many new users there are out there, then spend more time arguing learning small personal workarounds that aren't generalised for others
09:01<blast007>does using 'apt install .\somepackage.deb' verify the signature?
09:01<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: i would like to make https and gpg both easy to use, and you are preventing me from doing so.
09:01<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: I disagree on that
09:01<olasd>blast007: there's no signatures in .debs by default
09:01<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: I'm not preventing you from doing so, I'm saying that https can't ever solve the problem
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09:02<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: no, it needs gpg too. it just shows that everybody is arguing about things in debian instead of implementing fixes.
09:02<olasd>it won't even be a step towards solving the problem
09:02<koollman>another decent way to fix it would be to make sure mirrors use strict sni (refuse unknown names) when possible
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09:02<olasd>you're trying to solve a data authentication issue by adding transport integrity
09:02<koollman>that would reduce errors too :)
09:02<remotecontrolledboy>let's do all the ideas!
09:03<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: oh no, my data can become corrupt in transport when i try to manually download a package to verify something without a debian system available!
09:04<remotecontrolledboy>to remind people, this was an unsigned cd image, not a signed package. it's probably hashed in a tree that's signed, but there's no tooling for checking it.
09:04<olasd>ftp.* doesn't ship cd images
09:04<remotecontrolledboy>oh no, i just downloaded a netinst from it! is this another bug?
09:05<blast007>show us the URL for that
09:05<remotecontrolledboy>i typed it earlier
09:05<remotecontrolledboy>here i am typing agian, while you use the information for arguing instead of forwarding me to relevent people
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09:06<remotecontrolledboy>i think it's
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09:07<blast007>that isn't the netinst
09:07<remotecontrolledboy>as a new user, i said netinst instead of netboot, not knowing the difference
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09:08<blast007>as a new user, you'd probably click on the "Download Debian 10.6" from the homepage
09:08<blast007>which links directly to the netinst iso
09:08<remotecontrolledboy>oh no! i have an exotic system requiring a special download!
09:08<another>that's netboot. not netinst
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09:09<remotecontrolledboy>i run into a lot of system issues so i'm looking at the distribution processes more to try to learn how to diagnose them, and possibly get involved in fixing them
09:10<olasd>if you want netboot images, you can install the debian-installer-10-netboot-arm64 package, which has a trust path to the debian archive keyring; the file you're linking is referenced in the SHA256SUMS file in the directory above it, and the hash of this SHA256SUMS file is signed in the buster Release file
09:10<olasd>(which is signed with, again, the debian archive keyring)
09:10<remotecontrolledboy>right; i'm actually in the SD-card-images subfolder which I believe is only accessible there?
09:11<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: as i've said before, there is no tooling for checking that signature. another thing for me talk with somebody about small parts of a project to move towards.
09:11<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: maybe read some documentation first. I'm sure there are things in there about not downloading packages manually, or getting random stuff from elsewhere
09:11<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: there is tooling for checking that signature; see the debian-installer-netboot-images source package
09:11<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: .... this is how you diagnose problems and handle edge cases. those aren't documented.
09:12<koollman>remotecontrolledboy: how so ? there's documentation on how to check signatures, and on how you should avoid non-debian packages
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09:12<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: a source package is not tooling. tooling is something you can install with apt and run easily.
09:13<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: although i am interested in learning how to manually check package signatures, i am kinda focused on checking these sd card image signatures atm.
09:13<remotecontrolledboy>koollman: my example case for manual downloads was on systems without apt, which many people use while diagnosing issues getting started with debian
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09:14<remotecontrolledboy>why are you arguing every tiny point against this?
09:15<remotecontrolledboy>thanks for the link to debian-installer-netboot-images package ... i was really looking for that
09:16<another>why do you need to check packages on systems w/o apt?
09:16<remotecontrolledboy>to see where hte corruption is on a misbehaving system
09:17<olasd>I now notice that your initial query was about netboot images, and I apologize for missing that
09:17<remotecontrolledboy>eh we got into a big fervent conversation
09:17<olasd>and in fact the documentation doesn't say how to check them for integrity (
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09:18<olasd>neither does mention the debian-installer-10-netboot-* packages
09:18<olasd>so, yeah, there's definitely a hole there
09:19<remotecontrolledboy>thanks olasd
09:19<olasd>(that https wouldn't really solve, mind you ;p)
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09:22<olasd>this feels worth at least reporting a bug against the release-notes package (from which these docs are generated) to mention the existence of the d-i-n-i packages in the tftp section
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09:28<erentar>how can i mark packages for later installation
09:30<grove>erentar: What do ou mena? In general there's nothing running that can install packages "later" (whatever that might mean)
09:30<remotecontrolledboy>olasd thanks. re: ssl, i think that mostly comes into play when you have corrupt data that passes validation, and want to see which host was compromised
09:30<erentar>i remember i could mark packages to be installed at the next upgrade
09:31<erentar>i just dont remember the command
09:31<erentar>but it does exist
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09:36<grove>erentar: I think you can do it by `echo "<package> install" | dpkg --set-selections`, but I have no experience using if for single packages, and I don't know how it works wit dependencies
09:38<zoke>you could also use the 'at' command to run any command at a later/set time
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09:39<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: i don't see a tftp section, and i'm not too familiar with these netboot sd images yet, so i'm continuing on the other paths i found
09:39<grove>That was my thought until erentar said "at the next upgrade", then I remebered --get-/--set-selections
09:40<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: the tftp section I meant was chapter 4 section 4 of the release notes I linked at 14:18:45 UTC
09:40<olasd>("preparing files for tftp boot")
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09:41<grove>(I was also wondering if dselect used to provide such a feature)
09:41<remotecontrolledboy>olasd: found it; the installation guide, not the release notes
09:41<olasd>yeah, you're right
09:41<zoke>I'd much rather install a new package while in control than to have the system automatically try to install it while running unattended-upgrades... but maybe that's just me
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09:44<remotecontrolledboy>sd images not listed and checksummed in the netboot manifest
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09:44<remotecontrolledboy>oh nice they are checksummed in the sha256sums file. i am always so confused about these checksums
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09:53<remotecontrolledboy>olasd should issues on that document go on the installation-guide package instead? i haven't filed a debian report before. i noticed the section links to the netboot/netboot.tar.gz file at the very bottom ... did you miss that?
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09:55<remotecontrolledboy>i found the guys who run this are #debian-boot, i'll move there with any questions
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09:56<olasd>remotecontrolledboy: yeah, definitely
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11:18<keycollector>Would a full disk encrypted KVM running debian be just as secure as a full disk encrypted debian running directly on host? Assuming i dont put the VM in a saved state?
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11:23<erle->disable or encrypt SWAP and don't suspend to disk the host
11:23<erle->were my suggestions
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11:26<paros>how is everyone?
11:27<andrei>only you :)
11:27<paros>abviously lol
11:28<paros>How are you?
11:28<andrei>just man in Transnistria
11:29<paros>where is that?
11:29-!-allorder [] has quit [Quit: allorder]
11:29<andrei>in Europa -> Moldova -> Transnistria
11:30<paros>Nice to meet you
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11:31<andrei>and where are you from?
11:31<paros>Middle east
11:32<andrei>in Amerika?
11:32<paros>haha no Middle East is in Asia
11:32<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic (either freenode or oftc) or #moocows on, ##chat on, or search for a chat topic of your choice at
11:34<paros>What do you do?
11:34<andrei>sorry.. im exit
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11:35<bremner>keycollector: I think you have to trust your hoster not to snoop on memory
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11:36<paros>Have A good day
11:37<bremner>keycollector: I don't know of tools to read VM memory, but I don't see what prevents it. Maybe others know better/
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11:49<Tedesco>i have a little bit of a problem uninstalling nvidia drivers
11:50<Tedesco>i purge all nvidia drivers, and i got stuck in a login loop on graphical session
11:50<Tedesco>however i update, install glx-diversion and some other packages and it fixes itself
11:51<Tedesco>however, apt keeps telling me that it wants to uninstall it again
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11:51<Tedesco>i don't know how to get out of this or what is going on, a little bit of guidance would be appreciated
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11:52<Tedesco>i have two graphic cards, so it's not like i cannot use it, but there's something wrong with apt and these packages
11:53<Tedesco>glx-alternative-mesa glx-diversions nvidia-installer-cleanup update-glx
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11:58<Tedesco>that got solved reinstalling glx-diversions
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11:58<Tedesco>however, i have no sound. and this is really beyond me
11:58<Tedesco>i didn't touch sound drivers
11:58<Tedesco>i think
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12:44<Stubigalli>IRC -- the land of 2000 users in a channel and not one chatting
12:45<wgreenhouse>Stubigalli: this is a support channel, so it's not very chatty
12:45<wgreenhouse>do you have a debian problem?
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12:46<Stubigalli>Not really..
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12:54<alex11>only 700 users here though
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13:04<the0>hey, could you move the chat to #debian-chat?
13:05<the0>unless you want to chat about chatting, in which case you should move to #debian-metachat
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13:06<petn-randall>the0: That would be #debian-offtopic, #debian-chat is empty.
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13:06<the0>it isn't
13:08<the0>and if you have a problem there is also #debian-rants and #debian-metarants
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13:12<petn-randall>the0: I have no idea why you think it isn't so.
13:12<the0>well, there were several people last time I looked
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13:49<skymouse>hi, I made a mistake when writing the .iso file to my USB stick.
13:49<skymouse>can I just start the `cp' command again?
13:49<sqrt{not}>skymouse, yes that should work OK.
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13:50<skymouse>thanks :)
13:50<sqrt{not}>(just to be sure) what cp command ?
13:50<skymouse>I used `sudo cp firmware-10.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso /dev/sdd'
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13:50<sqrt{not}>OK, perfect
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13:52<skymouse>I know I messed it up because when I rebooted the system it couldn't find an isolinux file
13:52<skymouse>(sorry for the basic question)
13:53<sney>it can help to run 'sync' once or twice after the copy finishes
13:53<skymouse>oh shoot
13:53<skymouse>i definitely forgot to do that
13:53<sney>I don't remember if it's in the official instructions, but I always do it anyway, to make sure none of that copy is still sitting in memory
13:54<skymouse>is that the thing where writes to disk are actually secretly writes to memory?
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13:56<sney>yes, which is fine normally, and makes things faster overall, except with a disk that you want to remove right away
13:56<skymouse>ooh thanks again both :)
13:56*skymouse tries this again
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14:07<remotecontrolledboy>olasd koollman: this is the bug for ssl:
14:07<judd>Bug in mirrors (closed, d-i): «HTTPS for mirrors»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2014-06-04; last modified: 2020-05-19.
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16:01<sqrt{not}>Hi sticks
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16:03<MKGSticks>Does anybody know why debian only recognizes 8gb of my 16bg of ram?
16:04<sney>what hardware, what debian version, how are you testing this?
16:05<MKGSticks>PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
16:05<MKGSticks>NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
16:05<MKGSticks>VERSION="10 (buster)"
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16:06<MKGSticks>MiB Mem : 7988.6 total, 706.5 free, 5599.0 used, 1683.1 buff/cache
16:06<MKGSticks>MiB Swap: 8143.0 total, 7866.9 free, 276.1 used. 1540.7 avail Mem
16:07<MKGSticks>top says I have 7988.6 total and 8143.0 swap
16:07<MKGSticks>if that helps any. Thanks in advance
16:07<btendler>Do you have 16GB of physical RAM installed?
16:09<erle->is it 64bit build of Debian?
16:09<erle->give output of "uname -a" and processor model from "lscpu"
16:09<sney>if you run 'dmidecode -t memory' as root, do you see all of the memory sticks you have installed? don't paste to the channel, just look, and if you're confused by output paste to and link here
16:10<sney>erle-: 686-pae has pae, so it should still acknowledge >4GB installed, even if it can't allocate more than that for a process
16:10<erle->MKGSticks: swap is backup "memory" on disk btw. so it is irrelevant for your problem
16:11<erle->686 but may the cpu/chipset is limited in PAE mode
16:11<MKGSticks>10-4 thanks and sorry about violating the paste etiquette. I'm new to this.
16:11<MKGSticks>i'll run dmidecode
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16:12<sney>MKGSticks: please also answer the first thing I asked you, which was "what hardware?"
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16:14<MKGSticks>Hi guys: RAM is ddr4 2x8gb 3200 mhz
16:14<MKGSticks>amd process. Hang on I'll look it up
16:15<sney>see 'head /proc/cpuinfo'
16:15<sney>and 'uname -m' to verify that you are using 64-bit debian.
16:15<MKGSticks>amd ryzen 7 2700 processor
16:17<MKGSticks>uname -m says x86_64
16:17<sney>ok, now look at dmidecode -t memory.
16:18<MKGSticks>I'm getting a dmidecode command not found error
16:18<sney>are you running it as root?
16:19<sarnold>sudo apt install dmidecode ?
16:19<MKGSticks>yes root thanks
16:19<sney>then yes, install it.
16:19<sney>!install it
16:19<dpkg>Your box does not come with every application, tool and utility known to debiankind installed already. If you find that the program you've been told to use isn't there, install it. Also ask me about <search>. If someone suggests an application to you, it's highly likely that it's available via apt-get or aptitude.
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16:22<MKGSticks>it's wierd I'm still getting the dmidecode command not found even though I did the sudo apt install dmidecode
16:22<sqrt{not}>how do you run the dmidecode ?
16:22<sqrt{not}>how did you become root ?
16:22<MKGSticks>dmidecode -t memory
16:23<MKGSticks>forgot the sudo
16:23<MKGSticks>okay I have data to report back
16:24<MKGSticks>okay, I have 4 memory devices
16:25<MKGSticks>two are showing min/max voltage: 1.2, the other two are unknown
16:25<sney>we're mostly interested in the Size: field, and whether it exceeds the Maximum Capacity listed in the memory array
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16:26<sarnold>unknown, hmm? are they fully seated? are they recognized by the system bios?
16:26<MKGSticks>okay the two with voltage have 8192 mb
16:27<MKGSticks>so this screen shows 2 sticks with 8192 mb, so that's a good thing
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16:29<MKGSticks>Now my memory speed is only 2133 MT/s. I never went to bios and increased that. I'm not gaming or anything
16:30<sney>probably the system default. can you pastebin the whole output from dmidecode?
16:33<sney>ok. your SMBIOS reports empty slots as well as populated ones, so the "unknown"s are just empty.
16:33<MKGSticks>yes, thanks
16:33<MKGSticks>I have two slots filled and two empty
16:34<sney>and indeed, 2 8GB sticks.
16:34<sney>what does 'free -m' say in the Total column?
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16:36<sney>ok. please pastebin all of the output from 'dmesg'.
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16:43<sney>alright, no errors, and the kernel says "8338200K available" right at the beginning.
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16:43<sarnold>this doesn't make any sense to me; dmesg sure looks like it's found eight gigs .. wild guess, maybe try firmware upgrades? sudo fwupdmgr upgrade should do that, at least if your vendors are using the nice friendly framework
16:44<sney>MKGSticks: are you sure the memory is installed in the right slots? some motherboard mfgs want you to put pairs next to each other, rather than alternated
16:45<MKGSticks>I tried the slot idea a while back, but I will give it another shot this weekend in addition to the firmware upgrade command
16:45<sney>MKGSticks: also, your cpu is only a few months older than the linux kernel used in debian 10, so a newer one from buster-backports may be worth a shot.
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16:46<MKGSticks>thanks sney and sarnold
16:48<MKGSticks>I should probably get going. Thank you so much sney and sarnold, erle, and dpkg, and anyone else I missed for all of your help. I'll try these ideas this weekend and report back.
16:48<MKGSticks>What a wonderful community you folks are. I'm new to this IRC stuff.
16:48<sarnold>MKGSticks: good luck! :)
16:49<MKGSticks>thanks! talk to you guys soon! Have a great weekend and don't let the current events get you down if you're in the US :-)
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19:16<leaveone>anybody in here an nvidia expert with debian?
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19:20<alex11>leaveone, if you just ask your question then people will look at it
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19:21<heinrich>might be helpful here:
19:22<sney>bet it's the broken cuda on 5.9 issue, anyway.
19:22<leaveone>fair enough, i have an older machine im using from 2012 with a NVIDIA Corporation GK208 [GeForce GT 710B] [10de:128b] (rev a1) card and i'm trying to figure out the best driver to use
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19:23<sney>depends on what you're doing with the computer
19:23<leaveone>the above, is what nvidia-detect gives me.. but im currently the latest driver from nvidia
19:24<leaveone>i dont do any gaming, just normal email, internet, youtube, etc..
19:24<sney>nouveau covers all of that
19:25<leaveone>but nvidia-detect script says i could use 390 series drivers, but i am using the latest which also support my graphics card..
19:26<sney>leaveone: are you having poor results with the driver you're using? is there a problem you're trying to solve? or just choice paralysis?
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19:29<leaveone>my results arent great. but it could be my monitor, or internet speed, but i thought i would check with hardware/software stuff first..
19:30<heinrich>check your performance with a benchmark and compare with others having the same GPU
19:30<leaveone>I have middle tier internet from my ISP, my workstation has 6Gb of RAM and runs relatively smoothly other than choppy videos, sometimes..
19:31<sney>so the problem is choppy videos?
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19:32<heinrich>choppy because its bufferd or is the CPU pegged when playing the video?
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19:33<leaveone>mostly that, but i can scroll webpages and witness the same thing.. maybe it's my monitor? is there a way to test that? is the nouveau driver less resource intensive.. im seeking out various troubleshoot methods
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19:33<leaveone>buffering doesnt seem to be an issue..
19:33<heinrich>why would you think it is the monitor?
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19:34<heinrich>play a video and check your cpu utilization
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19:36<heinrich>seems like you are still using your CPU for video output and not the GPU
19:36<sarnold>how are you playing videos?
19:36<leaveone>i see lines on the monitor while i scross websites, but its not in the same place.. but i also see them while streaming, not in the same place... so im trying to determine if my card sucks, wrong driver, or bad ISP speed.. it could also be all 3 since the computer is pretty old
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19:37<heinrich>seems like tearing is the issue?
19:38<leaveone>my display is run though a graphics card on pci express 2.0, i think... i have on board video turned off since i dont use it
19:38<sqrt{not}>does that GeForce card have its own memory, or does it share the main 6GB ?
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19:38<sqrt{not}>oh, sso the nvidia is not involved in your display ?
19:39<leaveone>it has its own, to my knowledge but maybe only 128mb.. its an old computer
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19:40<leaveone>im using the nvidia display driver on an nvidia card, so yes nvidia is involved..
19:40<sarnold>those symptoms sounds a bit like tearing, I understand using a compositor can help, but I never understood how those are used, how to add one if you're not already using one, how to check if you're using one, etc
19:41<heinrich>i have the same issue. I am using i3wm which doesn't use a compositer
19:41<leaveone>it may very well be this card/computer is too old to handle incoming graphic data for watching HD stuff..
19:41<heinrich>noticed it too while scrolling wegpages or with mpv
19:41<sqrt{not}>you can watch memory usage with `top` while you're having the problem, to see if swapping / memory contention is part of the problem
19:42<heinrich>@sqrt but top doesnt show GPU memory, does it?
19:42<leaveone>i run the fluxbox desktop, i have for like 10 years and keep it updated
19:43<heinrich>he has 6GB of system memory... should be enough for a video
19:43<sqrt{not}>I'm looking for possible sharing of main memory by the video card(s) ? maybe not what's happening, but maybe a possibility
19:44<heinrich>I only know that onboard graphics uses system memory for graphics not dedicated GPUs
19:44<sqrt{not}>also depends how much other stuff is running --- i'm fairly ADD, so I have lots of swapping (and just bought more main memory too)
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19:47<heinrich>I'm searching if fluxbox uses a compositor, if it doesn't you should definately install a lightweight compositor
19:47<leaveone>i still have about 2 GB of RAM left and barely any swap space is used..
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19:48<sarnold>heinrich: skimming suggests to me that you might have success with "apt install compton ; compton -b &" -- be sure to do a better job reading about it than I have :)
19:48<sqrt{not}>OK, probably that's probably not the problem.
19:48<sarnold>oh, sorry heinrich, meant for leaveone ..
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19:48<leaveone>my cpu is barely being used right now, with like 12 chrome tabs open 3 of which are youtube but they are paused.
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19:49<heinrich>tip: use mpv for youtube if you can/want
19:49<leaveone>i will check out that link
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19:50<leaveone>is mpv a seperate app install?
19:50<heinrich>just do $ sudo apt install mpv
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19:51<leaveone>says its already installed
19:52<heinrich>then you can view nearly any kind of video with $ mpv <url>
19:52<another>*with youtube-dl installed
19:52<heinrich>the youtube-dl from the debian repos is outdated
19:53<utildez028>Hi, I have a problem I would like to switch my laptop to pci-passthrough, I have downloaded the script package that I have run, I add the lines in the grub, and add the pci device in the vm kvm. The problem is that my vm recognizes the card well, but I have a triangle so I add the piece of code to correct error 43 and now I still have it. If I deactivate and reactivate the card it disappears but it comes back after a while and nvidia control panel
19:53<utildez028>does not launch. What can I do?
19:53<leaveone>let me check
19:53<heinrich>you have to update it regularly... so install ith with pip3
19:54<leaveone>youtube-dl is also already installed
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19:56<leaveone>i can try running mpv with a youtube link, but thats definitely not as easy as just web browsing with chrome, or firefox
19:57<heinrich>true - I use qutebrowser so I can start youtube with 2 key presses
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19:57<leaveone>well maybe ill try that for youtube browsing
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19:58<heinrich>but qutebrowser doesn't have a really good adblocker and no extension API so like always.... choose your poison :-(
19:58<leaveone>i really think i have a combination of issues, but im trying to troubleshoot the easiest lol
19:59<leaveone>how many ads do you get on linux anyways??
20:00<sarnold>my firefox with noscript is vastly more pleasing than my chromium-browser with no such blocking
20:00<heinrich>with qutebrowser? very little, except pre and mid ads on youtube and some doubleclick ads from google. but when starting youtube videos with mpv you can avoid that
20:01<leaveone>sounds like i have more research than answers to do lol
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20:02<sqrt{not}>utildez028: is this problem on buster ?
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20:02<heinrich>my butt hurts from doing research
20:03<heinrich>if there would be an other way doing research without sitting on your chair all day long
20:03<sarnold>heinrich: hire grad students to do research
20:03<heinrich>"Welcome to VR"
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20:03<heinrich>i mean like research how to do stuff on linux :D
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20:04<leaveone>it may be that i just need to read all the way through this fluxbox site that pas posted.. i know fluxbox isnt really kept up nowadays but ive stuck with it for years..
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20:07<skymouse>hello, I'm pretty terrified of partitioning and I have a question about how to sanely set up encryption, at least for /home
20:08<skymouse>what I currently have is 512m for efi and 2g for /boot which presumably must be unencrypted
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20:08<skymouse>do I now need to make a LVM partition or should I select the rest of the free space as 'physical volume for encryption'?
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20:13<heinrich>maybe this will help
20:13<heinrich>goes without saying, always make a backup
20:14<jmcnaught>skymouse: You are in the installer? Have you tried the guided partitioning, to see what it does? You can use the free space as "physical volume for encryption" then configure encryption at the top of the partitioning menu.
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20:15<jmcnaught>skymouse: then I would use the encrypted volume as a phsyical volume for LVM, and configure LVM at the top of the menu.
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20:16<skymouse>alright, thanks :)
20:16<skymouse>I had it the wrong way round
20:16<jmcnaught>skymouse: I usually just use the guided partitioning. One of the questions it will ask is how much free space to leave in the volume group. I recommend leaving something like 20% or so so that you can grow volumes later if you want, or use snapshots.
20:17<ap4lmtree>with monitors shoudl i ahve 59.94 or should i put 60hz ?
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20:17<ap4lmtree>i think 59.94 is more compatible with stuff
20:18<heinrich>i would just use what xrandr suggests
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20:20<heinrich>@jmcnaught what do you mean with "use snapshots" for the remaining 20% ?
20:21<skymouse>okay, I think I can safely use the whole disk as I know it's unlikely I'll need to extend volumes later
20:21<skymouse>the guided partitioning has added 32g of swap which seems a bit... oop
20:21<heinrich>i think default is that swap = twice the size of RAM installed
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20:22<jmcnaught>heinrich: LVM can make snapshots of volumes that can be useful in a variety ways. You can back up from a frozen copy of the filesystem, you can restore to a snapshot after experimenting with some changes.
20:23<sarnold>skymouse: hah, the installer once tried to use something like ~120 gigs on swap and ~four gigs on / for one of my systems.. pretty silly :)
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20:23<heinrich>oh wow. never heard of LVM snapshots. Will read up on it. Thanks
20:24<jmcnaught>Another cool LVM trick if you have small/fast storage (like an SSD) and large/slow (like an HDD) is lvmcache(7)
20:24<skymouse>woah, that does sound really neat!
20:25<skymouse>I think I'm just going to throw away its suggestions and use 400g for /home, 92g for /, and 8g for swap
20:25<skymouse>does that seem sane?
20:25<sarnold>I'd probably go with 2g for swap but it doesn't really matter one way or the other
20:26<sarnold>if you're seven gigs into swap you're probably having a bad time and want the oom killer to help out, right?
20:26<sarnold>but having some space for the kernel to shove unused things is handy
20:26<skymouse>good point
20:26<sarnold>so two gigs gives the kernel some options, but doesn't let things get too far out of hand
20:26<heinrich>having a little bit swap doesn't hurt
20:28<skymouse>so if lvm does snapshots it would be needless to also take btrfs?
20:28<skymouse>i should just use ext4
20:28<heinrich>I've never encountered a problem where when not having swap that something would crash. oom killer would prevent that, but people still suggest having a little bit swap space
20:30<skymouse>I will probably have random virtual machines running so I think taking a bit more swap makes sense for me
20:30<skymouse>then those things in the background can just be swapped out
20:35<skymouse>okay, I think I got it now
20:35<skymouse>thanks all :)
20:41<pumpernickel>skymouse just to add, you normally choose between btrfs or lvm/ext4
20:41<skymouse>right! that makes a lot of sense :)
20:41<skymouse>I messed that up last time
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20:49<skymouse>yes!! I did it!!!
20:49<skymouse>thank you everyone :)
20:49<sarnold>nice :)
20:51<alex11>!win skymouse
20:51<dpkg>Congratulations, skymouse! You have won the US presidency!
20:51<heinrich>!win alex11
20:51<dpkg>Congratulations, alex11! You have won a one way ticket to Christmas Island!
20:53<skymouse>heck yeah ^^
20:53<skymouse>this is gonna be the best debian install ever! and as a bonus I learned about LVM snapshots and what I did wrong last time :)
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21:07<heinrich>TIL: you can reattach running process to a tmux session with reptyr
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21:13<utildez028>can anyone help me?
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21:13<pumpernickel>who knows utildez028
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21:16<utildez028>I have an error 43 on the driver I don't know what to do
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21:17<pumpernickel>did you use the nvidia fix for that?
21:18<utildez028>no it's because I'm using the pci passthrough but I don't know how to solve the problem
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21:19<sarnold>utildez028: is there anything in the dmesg on host or guest that might have more details?
21:19<jmcnaught>utildez028: are you using libvirt?
21:19<utildez028>on this site even if it's arch they talk about error 43 but I do not understand what to do
21:20<utildez028>ys libvirt
21:21<utildez028>my vm windows detect the graphics card and install it, but I have an error
21:21<heinrich>nvidia consumer cards doesn't like to be run in a VM
21:22<heinrich>that what quadros are for ;-)
21:22<jmcnaught>utildez028: have you changed the hyperv vendor_id to a random value and the kvm hidden state?
21:23<utildez028>normally yes after a while I put something like 123456780 .... by following the tutorial
21:25<utildez028>apparently it's a battery detection story but I'm not sure that's what he talks about on the site but I don't understand what to do (sorry I'm French I have a bit of bad with English)
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21:25<utildez028>"Error 43: Driver failed to load" with mobile (Optimus/max-q) nvidia GPUs
21:25<utildez028>this in the site
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21:28<sarnold>oh wow, I hadn't seen this before. that's gross.
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21:35<utildez028>jmcnaught, on the site it says: "First you have to create the custom acpi table file by pasting the following base64 string" but I understand what to do
21:39<jmcnaught>utildez028: sorry I have only done this on a desktop before, the steps I mentioned were the only ones I had to do.
21:39<utildez028>ok :/
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21:40<jmcnaught>utildez028: but it looks like it wants you to take that string to the link mentioned, and create a file that you refer to in your VM's XML
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21:41<utildez028>ok so I have nothing to generate I just copy what it has on the site in the file?
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21:47<jmcnaught>utildez028: you copy the random looking string below the instruction to you clipboard and paste it into the site, which will give you a file. Then you need to "virsh edit …" your VM to add to the <qemu:commandline> section.
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21:57<ap4lmtree>kde looks like it has better development than gnome
21:58<utildez028>jmcnaught, I do not understand where it is by default the file to modify of the virtual machine
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22:01<jmcnaught>utildez028: to edit the configuration for a libvirt virtual machine (called a domain in libvirt) you use "virsh edit <vm>" (where you replace <vm> with the name of your virtual machine).
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22:04<utildez028>ok nickel and I put it or this piece of code with the path of the file?
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22:13<utildez028>jmcnaught, ok nickel and I put it or this piece of code with the path of the file?
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22:18<Guest6445>wtf after I removed libreoffice on stable it was installed back when I upgraded to testing
22:20<sney>probably a desktop metapackage pulled it in. also, testing support is in #debian-next
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 21 00:00:37 2020