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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-01-05

---Logopened Tue Jan 05 00:00:41 2021
00:03-!-thelastjedi_ [~quassel@171.223.95.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:04-!-thelastjedi [~quassel@171.223.95.226] has joined #debian
00:04-!-thelastjedi is "thelastjedi,,," on #debian
00:06-!-Volk [~Volk@a95-94-47-32.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: See you next time!]
00:17-!-zebrag [~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-100-102.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:26-!-rck [~quassel@201.108.251.199] has joined #debian
00:26-!-rck is "rck,,," on #debian
00:26-!-maschinenhans [~Hans@200116b82a5053000008e12cf12a99bf.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #debian
00:26-!-maschinenhans is "realname" on #debian
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00:28-!-rck is "rck,,," on #debian
00:29-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:29-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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00:48-!-edam [~anonymous@138.121.104.33] has joined #debian
00:48-!-edam is "anonymous" on #debian
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00:54-!-diogenes_oftc [~diogenes_@188.208.120.68] has joined #debian
00:54-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
00:57-!-omargiglio [~omargigli@host-82-54-116-135.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
00:57-!-omargiglio is "omargiglio" on #debian
00:58-!-edam [~anonymous@138.121.104.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:59-!-omargiglio [~omargigli@host-82-54-116-135.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
01:03-!-maschinenhans [~Hans@200116b82a5053000008e12cf12a99bf.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:04-!-rck [~quassel@201.108.251.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:04<ozzloy>what is the best OS and why is it debian?
01:07<awal1>dpkg: ozzloy
01:07<dpkg>wish i knew, awal1
01:08<awal1>dpkg: why debian
01:08<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also http://www.debian.org/intro/free http://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/ . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
01:09-!-omargiglio [~omargigli@host-82-54-116-135.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
01:09-!-omargiglio is "omargiglio" on #debian
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01:11-!-omargiglio [~omargigli@host-82-54-116-135.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
01:14-!-zykotic10 [~zykotick9@206-47-13-1.static.dsl.ncf.ca] has joined #debian
01:14-!-zykotic10 is "ZykoticK9" on #virt #debian-next #debian
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01:21-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
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01:37-!-SubOptimal is "SubOptimal" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi #debian-java #debian-next
01:41-!-haava [~haava@2a01:79d:3e86:5c24:e38c:86c3:6a:94ab] has joined #debian
01:41-!-haava is "Håvard" on #debian
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01:42-!-nu-c is "realname" on #debian
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01:58-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
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02:00-!-jacky is "Jacky Alcine" on @#lounge #debian-next #debian
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02:06-!-thrill_seeker is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
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02:08-!-thrill_seeker is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
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02:09-!-troyt is "Troy Telford" on #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian
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02:11-!-thrill_seeker is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
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02:13-!-thrill_seeker1 is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
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02:14-!-jlsantos is "jlsantos" on #debian
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02:18-!-andibmu [~andi@dslb-178-002-232-201.178.002.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
02:18-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian-meeting #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-edu #debian-lan
02:19-!-thrill_seeker1 [~thrill_se@80.30.34.208] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
02:20-!-troyt [zncsrv@2601:681:4102:9411:44dd:acff:fe85:9c8e] has quit [Quit: AAAGH! IT BURNS!]
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02:21-!-thrill_seeker is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
02:24-!-jeanpipo [~muche@4G4AAESPK.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:24-!-jeanpipo is "truc" on #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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02:32-!-thrill_seeker is "thrill_seeker" on #debian-next @#debian-i3 #debian-es #debian-ai #debian
02:33-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
02:33-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
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02:41-!-jameson_pl is "realname" on #debian-next #debian-installer #debian
02:47-!-thrill_seeker [~thrill_se@80.30.34.208] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
02:48-!-troyt [zncsrv@2601:681:4102:9411:44dd:acff:fe85:9c8e] has joined #debian
02:48-!-troyt is "Troy Telford" on #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian
02:50-!-Main_ [~secntech@67-2-49-16.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #debian
02:50-!-Main_ is "tp" on #cryptoparty #debian #freedombox #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy
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03:00-!-gerdon is "realname" on #debian
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03:01-!-joemaro_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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03:01-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian
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03:06-!-roshanavand is "roshanavand" on #debian
03:06-!-debalance [~quassel@2a02:908:108d:cd40:201:2eff:fe70:36f] has joined #debian
03:06-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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03:08-!-roshanavand1 is "roshanavand" on #debian
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03:13-!-burrows is "burrows" on #debian-next #debian
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03:14-!-troyt_ is "Troy Telford" on #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian
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03:16-!-tor_user is "user" on #debian
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03:16-!-Guest9799 [~tor____us@7YZAAEGYR.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has left #debian []
03:19-!-dhairya [~dhairya@117.211.157.137] has joined #debian
03:19-!-dhairya is "realname" on #debian
03:19<dhairya>hi
03:19<dhairya>anyone there
03:20<pumpernickel>!ask
03:20<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
03:20<dhairya>hi
03:20<pumpernickel>People are in different timezones
03:20<dhairya>means
03:20<dhairya>hi
03:21-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:21-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
03:21<dhairya>helo
03:21<dhairya>hi
03:21<dhairya>hi
03:21<dhairya>hi
03:21<dhairya>hi8
03:21-!-dhairya was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
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03:23-!-nu-c is "realname" on #debian
03:24-!-dhairya [~dhairya@117.211.157.137] has joined #debian
03:24-!-dhairya is "realname" on #debian
03:24<dhairya>ok
03:25<dhairya>hello
03:26-!-Fraggle2 [~cbritz@200116b82030ae00f96d393bc74b2fba.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #debian
03:26-!-Fraggle2 is "Christian Britz" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
03:27-!-roshanavand1 [~Thunderbi@193.138.218.217] has joined #debian
03:27-!-roshanavand1 is "roshanavand" on #debian
03:27<dhairya>HELLO EVERYONE
03:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 724] by debhelper
03:28<sep>dhairya, there are 706 people in this irc channel, do you expect each of us to reply to "hi" ?. most probably sleeping, or beeing at they day job. your spamming is just annoying.
03:28<sep>ill place you on my /ignore list now, since your contributions are null, and you obviously have no questions to ask.
03:29<dhairya>NO!!
03:29-!-Maduro50 [~4564asdf6@static-223-4-84-188.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
03:29-!-Maduro50 is "Si SI" on #debian
03:30<sep>dhairya, http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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03:38-!-roshanavand is "roshanavand" on #debian
03:38-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-95-234-136-61.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:38-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #vcs-home #debian #cell
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03:42-!-guardian is "guardian" on #debian
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03:45-!-Volley is "Wolfgang Scheicher" on #realraum #packaging #virt #debian-live #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
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03:45-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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03:53-!-jeanpipo is "truc" on #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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03:59-!-ashish is "Ashish" on #debian
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04:00<scientes>sep, just new to IRC
04:01-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:01-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oolite #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #llvm #debian
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04:09-!-erle- is "Stephan" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi
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04:14<Sand1>monero
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04:17-!-thelastjedi is "thelastjedi,,," on #debian
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04:26-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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04:28-!-roshanavand1 is "roshanavand" on #debian
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04:38-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
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04:39-!-mallio is "Rasmus Mattsson Kallio" on #debian-next #debian
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04:52-!-jarxv is "realname" on #debian
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04:52-!-xdvd is "realname" on #debian #bsd-privacy #DeforaOS #c++ #C #alpine-linux #coin
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04:52-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian-meeting #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-edu #debian-lan
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05:01-!-strugee is "AJ Jordan" on #tor-project #tor-dev #debian #https-everywhere #debian-next
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05:14-!-Demian is "Demian" on #debian #debian.or.at
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05:23-!-Geolykt is "Emeric Werner" on #debian
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05:27-!-AWindowsKrill is "AWindowsKrill <volkor@thecum.zone>" on #debian #debian-next #redditprivacy
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05:38-!-Mister00X is "Mr.X" on #debian #debian-next
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05:39-!-petervbeck is "Peter V. Beck" on #packaging #debian
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05:44-!-ach- is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #spooky #debian
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05:44-!-titi is "Your Name" on #debian
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05:47-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
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05:58-!-jas4711 is "Simon Josefsson" on #debian #salsaci #dfri_se
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06:08-!-openoms is "openoms" on #debian
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06:08-!-steve09 is "realname" on #debian #kernelnewbies
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06:26-!-valeoak is "realname" on #debian
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06:41-!-dandersson is "Daniel Andersson" on #debian
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06:43-!-dandersson is "Daniel Andersson" on #debian
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06:51-!-pamaury is "Amaury Pouly" on #oftc #debian-next #debian
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06:55-!-igormuzetti is "igor" on #debian
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06:56-!-somazero is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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06:57-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
06:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 738] by debhelper
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07:02-!-linux77 is "(Leonardo de Araújo Lima)." on #perl #python #debian-social #debian-next #debian #cap-cc #asl-br
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07:07-!-lenharo is "Daniel Lenharo" on #minidebconf-online #debian-social #debian-nonupload #debian-next #debian-lists #debian-i18n #debian-devel-changes #debian-devel-br #debian-bsb #debian-br #debian
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07:13-!-totonika is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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07:19<ios>hello
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07:20<ios>good by
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07:21-!-nyku is "nyku [them/him]" on #debian
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08:05<foo12>hey! I'm about to install debian on an external drive. I was wondering if I could boot into the livecd without burning it to a flasdrive (mounting it somewhere and booting into it)?
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08:13<sqrt{not}>fool2: there is some advice about that in the install guide: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual
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08:14<alexandrdvorkin>what is the command to get into disk utility
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08:14<foo12>sqrt{not}: ill check thanks! (its foo-twelve not fool2 :D)
08:15<sqrt{not}>foo12: heh, sorry, old eyes
08:15-!-sevu [~sevu@dynamic-077-011-178-243.77.11.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
08:15-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
08:16<jm_>foo12: I use grml-rescueboot to boot ISO-s, there's also grub-imageboot but that did not work for me
08:16<jm_>but off now
08:17<sqrt{not}>alexandrdvorkin: there are more than one disk utility. what environment are you int? what do you want to do?
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08:19<alexandrdvorkin>ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS
08:19<afoo>!ubuntu
08:19<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
08:20-!-afoo is now known as avu
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08:23-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
08:24<sqrt{not}>!ubuntuirc
08:24<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using HexChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
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09:20<foo12`>it's me again... is there a livecd with ssh enabled on the start? I found one with debian 9, but i'd prefer to have debian 10. or can i go with debian 9, and when it's installed then upgrade the system to debian 10?
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09:26<blast007>why are you needing SSH?
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09:30<foo12>raspberry pi. but i already found a program which make livecd 'persistent', so I'm going that route
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09:34<blast007>there are some existing SD card images for the Pi's if you're wanting to run Debian on one of them. https://raspi.debian.net/tested-images/
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11:38<mirko_>Given Qt's decision to restrict access to (security-)fixes for LTS versions to commercial users only, and being myself a maintainer of Qt for a linux distribution, is there already any strategy and/or discussion by debian's maintainers?
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11:38<mirko_>when announced this as a ptential way in the beginning of 2020 I really didn't expect them to go that way for reakl
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11:40<FelixActually>If they're going to do things like that then perhaps a fork is in order
11:41<mirko_>do they really think oss devs would still contribute into the official Qt branches rather than only to the community fork?
11:41<FelixActually>What license is Qt under?
11:41<mirko_>They had one year to think this through and I really wonder what I am not seeing or that they're not seeing it..
11:42<mirko_>FelixActually: dual license lgpl and commercial
11:42<FelixActually>So is it possible for someone else to fork it?
11:42<mirko_>under LGPL or compatible licesne, yes
11:43<FelixActually>If it were to be forked I'd recommend GPLv3
11:43<FelixActually>If that's possible
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11:43<mirko_>FelixActually: this would make things even worse, if possible at all
11:43<FelixActually>Oh?
11:44<olasd>mirko_: I think some debian qt/kde maintainers hang out on #debian-qt-kde, you might get more sensible answers there
11:44<avu>you usually can't re-license things under a more restrictive license without the copyright holder's consent
11:44<mirko_>avu: ack
11:45<mirko_>olasd: oh, i joined them already but mixed up channels, sorry and thanks!
11:45<olasd>mirko_: ack, no problem!
11:46<pumpernickel>They also license it under gpl, but still qt is way too huge to really have an active fork (imho)
11:46<mirko_>pumpernickel: they don't (anymore) except some legacy parts
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11:47<pumpernickel>Huh? So their own site is out of date?
11:48<mirko_>i can really relate to this blog post from early 2020 by one of the krita devs: https://valdyas.org/fading/software/about-qt-offering-changes-2020/
11:48<mirko_>pumpernickel: link?
11:48<FelixActually>The problem is, how else can they be prevented from being unethical other than forking?
11:49<pumpernickel>https://www.qt.io/licensing/
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11:49<mirko_>i see their mention of GPL, but all current (core) modules i'm maintaining are lgplv3 and commercial only
11:49<mirko_>"Qt for Application Development is also available under GPL and LGPLv3 open source licenses. Qt tools and some libraries are only available under GPL." ambigious
11:50<FelixActually>mirko_: I'm confused as to what you mean when you say "commercial" with regards to licensing
11:50<pumpernickel>Felixactually, imho we can’t prevent it, that’s why a lot of people were opposed to Qt
11:50<mirko_>FelixActually: commercial in Qt speech means "let'S negoiate for your special use case"
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11:51<mirko_>pumpernickel: https://www.qt.io/product/features#js-6-4 - select "GPL" and/or "LGPL" under "license models" and you see the respective modules
11:51<mirko_>GPL are mainly the development tools (qt designer, qmake, etc.)
11:51<mirko_>but the actual libs to use are (at least mostly) lgplv3
11:51<FelixActually>So do they drop the free software license if someone pays them enough?
11:52<Fraggle2>FelixActually: a commonly used approach
11:52<pumpernickel>Felixactually, they can’t drop the whole opensource, as that would mean it would drop into mit license (if I remember correctly)
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11:58<mirko_>FelixActually: you use it under the (L)GPL licenses or you pay. i think as mysql did it back then or so. fair enough by me. but i'm really pissed as contributor and maintainer.
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11:58<mirko_>..with the current decision
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12:00<vino>#nvidia
12:01<vino>hello noob here qq regarding nvidia support on buster is this right place ask my question?
12:01<mirko_>pumpernickel: properly they mention gpl as you can obviously still use lgpl software under the terms of gpl
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12:02<Mister00X>vino: This is the right place to ask. Ask your questions
12:02<vino>thank you so much
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12:03<vino>i have dual vga adapter 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530 (rev 06) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM107GLM [Quadro M2000M] (rev ff) i'm not able to get nvidia working on buster. i had tried work around mentioned on the support page with backport enabled
12:04<vino>obviously something i'm overlooking jsut wanted to get extra pair of eye to suggest if i'm being stupid to overlook basic things
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12:04<vino>buster was working before
12:05<vino>TIA
12:08<vino>https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Debian_10_.22Buster.22 here is the link i tried
12:09<Mister00X>vino: Did you also install a newer kernel and headers from backports?
12:10<vino>Linux beast 4.19.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.160-2 (2020-11-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux
12:10<vino>yep
12:10<avu>that's not a bpo kernel though?
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12:13<vino>let me quickly run updateinitframs
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12:14<vino>Linux beast 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.9.6-1~bpo10+1 (2020-11-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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12:16<Mister00X>Is it working now?
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12:26<vino>still troublehsooting i m not able to install 390xx drive packages
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12:35<vino>The following packages have unmet dependencies: nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver : Depends: nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver-libs (= 390.138-1~deb10u1) but it is not going to be installed or nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver-libs-nonglvnd (= 390.138-1~deb10u1) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
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12:37<pumpernickel>vino are you sure you have non-free in the repos?
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12:39<vino>yes
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12:39<vino>**** here is sample /etc/apt/sources.list content deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main # buster-updates, previously known as
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12:41<pumpernickel>!bat
12:41<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
12:41<pumpernickel>vino ^
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12:54<User318931>Greetings! Since thunderbird has decided to randomly start borking on me when sending a message (especially when copying it to the Sent folder), I am looking for a new mail client to switch to. Ideally, it should be popular enough to have enough eyes on its codebase, which rules out more nice options like Sylpheed or SeaMonkey.
12:54<User318931>s/nice/niche :\
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12:55<Mister00X>User318931: Are you talking about a bug in thunderbird or about a messed up config?
12:56<User318931>Mister00X: No idea -- This profile folder is pretty old :)
12:56<User318931>There's a chance it may have been messed up in some way
12:57<Mister00X>User318931: Because if you've found a bug you should consider reporting it. I have a thunderbird running here without problems
12:58<Mister00X>User318931: You could "rename" your config folder of TB and look if the error is persitent
12:58<User318931>I have tried creating an empty profile and only moving the message data
12:59<User318931>Also, my organization's IMAP server is pretty weird and possilby ancient, so it may be an interplay issue between TB and the IMAP server
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13:00<Mister00X>User318931: Btw do you have the current version of TB, including the security-updates?
13:01<User318931>Yes, my TB is up-to-date
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13:02<Mister00X>So it's probably a config issue..... probably
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13:02<User318931>Mister00X: I don't get any weird output on the error console when the error condition occurs, I just get a dialog box informing me that "TB cannot write to the Drafts folder due to network or file access errors"
13:03<User318931>Retry leads to an endless loop
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13:03<GyrosGeier>hi
13:03<GyrosGeier>I have an annoying problem with EFI
13:03<User318931>And I cannot reproduce it consistently -- It seems to be happening with large HTML messages with many image attachments, but I've had it happen with simple text/plain ones, too
13:04<GyrosGeier>in that it doesn't let me into the BIOS anymore, even by pressing Delete repeatedly during boot
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13:04<GyrosGeier>is there a good checklist somewhere?
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13:04<User318931>GyrosGeier: Can you boot to your OS?
13:04<GyrosGeier>no
13:05<GyrosGeier>the OS has a broken file system, so it can't find init
13:05<User318931>GyrosGeier: Ah, then it does get past POST. Basically, some motherboards disallow access to the UEFI setup menu when an OS is installed
13:06<Mister00X>User318931: That sounds like some misconfigured smtp and/or imap. Or..... one of your folders has a strange filename <--- I don't think it's this
13:06<User318931>Mister00X: IDK, I speak Greek, as is my organization, and, as such, I *do* have some folders with Greek (UTF-8) names
13:06<User318931>s/UTF-8/Unicode
13:07<User318931>GyrosGeier: You could try accessing the GRUB boot menu by holding down shift on boot, and check whether there's an option there to enter the UEFI setup menu
13:07<User318931>GyrosGeier: Also, consult your motherboard's manual -- There may be a way to enter the UEFI setup screen from the boot priority menu, the one you get from pressing F8 or whatever
13:08<User318931>If all else fails, temporarily disconnecting the OS drive /should/ allow you to get to the setup menu
13:08<Mister00X>User318931: I really think it's very unlikely thats it caused by non ascii charakters in thunderbird and because it's a greek organization I don't think the server has problems with it either
13:08<GyrosGeier>User318931, thanks
13:09<GyrosGeier>bootloader isn't grub but directly boots Linux
13:09<GyrosGeier>this is a box that is supposed to boot as quickly as possible
13:09<User318931>GyrosGeier: Oh, that kind of complicates things
13:09<GyrosGeier>indeed
13:09<GyrosGeier>I mean it's nice that it fails within <1s
13:10<User318931>GyrosGeier: You'll have to look at your mobo's manual -- you may even have forgotten the UEFI access key! ;)
13:10<User318931>GyrosGeier: Ah, don't be so sure -- the server may be from the ISO-* days :>
13:10<GyrosGeier>it's supposed to be Delete
13:10<GyrosGeier>at least that used to work
13:10<User318931>Mister00X: Sorry that was for you ^
13:11<User318931>GyrosGeier: You could have installed the bootloader and set it to autoboot -- That wouldn't waste too many milliseconds now, would it? :>
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13:11<Mister00X>User318931: I think in a greek organization it would be found out pretty fast if the server can't cope with greek letters in Greece
13:11<GyrosGeier>it's a dedicated box to test an FPGA card on the PCIe bus
13:12<User318931>GyrosGeier: Ah, I see
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13:12<GyrosGeier>so it will download the FPGA, then reset the box and run tests as soon as it's up
13:12<User318931>GyrosGeier: Seriously, just disconnect the OS drive and see where that takes you
13:12<GyrosGeier>bad news
13:12<GyrosGeier>the OS drive is eMMC
13:12<Mister00X>User318931: If you're really looking for alternatives you could have a look at the MUA of your DE
13:13<User318931>Mister00X: I use Qubes OS, so the DE isn't going to be a problem -- There's no DE! ;)
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13:13<User318931>GyrosGeier: I'm sorry.. This sounds like a mobo thing, not something that can be fixed in software
13:14<Mister00X>User318931: well you could allways use the cli based ones like mutt, neomutt or aerc
13:14<User318931>I need to send HTML e-mail :(
13:14<Mister00X>I see
13:14<GyrosGeier>w00t
13:15<GyrosGeier>forcing a memory check worked
13:15<User318931>GyrosGeier: Oh, you made it switch to BIOS compat mode?
13:15<GyrosGeier>apparently
13:15<GyrosGeier>now all I need to do is boot a rescue system and wipe the GPT
13:16<User318931>That's great, but how did you get memtest to work if you did not have a bootloader and just booted straight to the linux image?
13:16<User318931>(But seriously, please, please, install a bootloader next time -- It tends to make things less ... weird and cursed ;>)
13:18<User318931>[At least in my experience -- But I did have a PC that gave me too many of the wrong kind of issues, similar to the ones you are describing things, and I just ended up setting it up using a simple MBR so that it was forced to use the BIOS compatibility layer stuff)
13:19<User318931>That way, it didn't hand control of things like when I am allowed enter the mobo settings over to the OS :)
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13:20<User318931>Mister00X: Thanks for the assistance -- I will try to look into it when I have more time. Perhaps I will end up with a reproducible case, and figure out what's wrong with my TB :)
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13:20<Mister00X>User318931: Good luck
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13:21<vino>https://pastebin.com/aQVtN3Ss
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13:22<User318931>Oh wow. I got some fun stuff on the error console: ReferenceError: folder is not defined, error re-saving edited draft. TypeError: gMsgCompose.editor is null, etc
13:22<User318931>Mister00X: Sounds like my TB profile is cursed, and it's time for a clean start
13:22<User318931>So long, 3-year-old TB profile! :P
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13:23<pumpernickel>vino i guess you would need to add i386 architecture (not 100% sure with nvidia)
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13:24<Mister00X>User318931: at least you don't need to look for another MUA
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13:24<User318931>Oh well. I really wish the profile did not get corrupted in the first place, but a clean slate is probably going to be faster/better than restoring from backup
13:25<User318931>Especially since it would be hard to determine exactly when my TB profile got corrupted :)
13:25<Mister00X>User318931: That makes it hard yes
13:27<User318931>Mister00X: again, thx, and have a happy, safe new year :)
13:27<Mister00X>User318931: thx, safe new year to you too
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13:38<vino>bummer thanks pumper
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13:54-!-RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian
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13:56-!-imi is "Nagy Imre,,," on @#hyperborg #debian #tinker
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15:09<scientes>янв 06 00:08:50 flex kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0
15:09<scientes>янв 06 00:08:50 flex kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sde] Unit Not Ready
15:09<scientes>янв 06 00:08:50 flex kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sde] Sense Key : Hardware Error [current]
15:09<scientes>my hard drive wont post
15:10<sney>time for a new hard drive
15:10<scientes>ahh it was a power problem
15:10<mhnd>what is it ? a flash drive or a harddrive ?
15:10<scientes>with the usb-c to a hub it did not work, but direct usb 3 works
15:10<scientes>2.5"
15:10<scientes>no extra power
15:10<sney>that'll do it
15:10<scientes>the usb-c hub has a power port but i wasn't using it
15:11<mhnd>usb-c should have enough power unless you are using some very cheap/broken hub
15:11-!-izh [~izh@000289c0.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:11-!-izh is "Denis" on #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian
15:12<scientes>well it is a spinning hard drive
15:12<scientes>but yes, it should be same amount of power as usb 3.0 ports
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15:12<scientes>янв 06 00:10:06 flex kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sdc] 4096-byte physical blocks
15:13<scientes>oh woah, haven't had a 4K block drive before
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15:24-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian-es #debian
15:25<mhnd>ntfs ?
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15:39-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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15:59-!-mirko is "Mirko Vogt" on #debian #debian-kde #oftc #irssi #poweradmin
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16:03-!-zebrag is "inkbottle" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies
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16:08-!-cosimone is "cosimone" on #debian
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16:12-!-FelixActually is "Felix" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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16:21-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-es #debian-next #debian-offtopic
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16:23-!-user_ is "user" on #debian
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16:25-!-thelastjedi is "thelastjedi,,," on #debian
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16:25-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #tor-south #tor-project #tor-mobile #tor-l10n #tor-dev #tor-bots #debian #dfri_se
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16:31-!-retrospectacus is "retro" on #debian @#tsco
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16:33-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian-es #debian
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16:49-!-ac_laptop2 is "ac_laptop" on #packaging #debian-next #debian
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16:51-!-jj5 is "jj5" on #debian-next #freedombox-ci #freedombox-dev #debian-raspberrypi #freedombox #debian-kde #debian
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17:03-!-ZachARY is "ZachARY" on #debian
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17:03-!-thelastjedi is "thelastjedi,,," on #debian
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18:46<Tedesco>hi, I have a security issue with debian buster and gnome i'd like to discuss
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18:48<Tedesco>when I locked my profile in a graphical session and I switch to a non-graphical one, F1-F6, when I switch back I am logged in again, rendering the lock feature useless
18:48<Tedesco>in addition to this, when I try dm-tool lock, it takes ages till it executes
18:49<Tedesco>how can I debug this?
18:50<Tedesco>I use lightdm
18:50<sarnold>other folks with similar complaints have found a spurious lock inhibit .. https://people.gnome.org/~mccann/gnome-screensaver/docs/gnome-screensaver.html#gs-examples
18:51<sarnold>the dfeet or d-feet program is handy for poking at dbus interfaces
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19:25<sney>twb: welcome back to the light side, heh
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19:29<Tedesco>so I have used gdbus monitor --system --dest org.freedesktop.login but idk what I am looking at
19:29<Tedesco>it just tells me it locks and when I switch it activates itself again
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19:30<Tedesco>gdbus monitor --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1
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19:37<sarnold>Tedesco: dang :( I was hoping that whatever it is would stand out pretty clear from that :(
19:37<sarnold>Tedesco: maybe run a journalctl -f , do the locking, switrching, and see if htere's new entries in the journal?
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19:40<Tedesco>i did dm-tool lock now
19:40<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:39:13 debian systemd[1]: session-c10.scope: Killing process 21908 (lightdm) with signal SIGTERM.
19:40<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:39:13 debian systemd[1]: session-c10.scope: Killing process 21923 (lightdm-gtk-gre) with signal SIGTERM.
19:40<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:39:13 debian systemd[1]: Stopping Session c10 of user lightdm.
19:40<Tedesco>but nothing, probably in 10 min my screen will lock
19:41-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e003:856:d601:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:41<Tedesco>ok, 2 min
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19:49<Tedesco>hi, I'm putting some output here:
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: session-c15.scope: Killing process 24320 (lightdm) with signal SIGTERM.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: session-c15.scope: Killing process 24324 (lightdm-gtk-gre) with signal SIGTERM.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: Stopping Session c15 of user lightdm.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian lightdm[24320]: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session): session closed for user lightdm
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian lightdm[666]: session_real_start: assertion 'session->priv->pid == 0' failed
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: session-c15.scope: Succeeded.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: Stopped Session c15 of user lightdm.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd-logind[586]: Removed session c15.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian lightdm[24354]: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session): session opened for user lightdm by (uid=0)
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd-logind[586]: New session c16 of user lightdm.
19:49<Tedesco>Jan 06 01:48:07 debian systemd[1]: Started Session c16 of user lightdm.
19:49<Tedesco>it creates c16 session without closing c15
19:50<Tedesco>no, sorry, this is c15 closing, and then switching and I'm in c16 without logging in
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19:58<yeeeeeeeeeet>hi
20:00<yeeeeeeeeeet>is debian able to work without systemd?
20:00<twb>yeeeeeeeeeet: yes
20:01<yeeeeeeeeeet>nice
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20:01<yeeeeeeeeeet>so why are many debian based distributions aren't able to work with systemd though?
20:03<sney>it's not really a question of "unable", some derivatives are built around a different init system for their own reasons though. you'd have to ask them for more details about that.
20:05<twb>yeeeeeeeeeet: why do you ask?
20:05-!-Tedesco [~calm-stea@dynamic-002-247-251-182.2.247.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: chao]
20:05<yeeeeeeeeeet>i am curious
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20:05<sqrt{not}>Tedesco: see bug #887773
20:05<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/887773 in lightdm (open, moreinfo): «It is possible to circumvent authentication after locking screen in lightdm»; severity: normal; opened: 2018-01-19; last modified: 2018-03-07.
20:06*sqrt{not} sighs -- too slow again
20:06<pumpernickel>sqrt{not} not too slow, those people leave way too early
20:07<sarnold>sqrt{not}: oh nice find :)
20:08<twb>is that basically the gdm bug where you can unlock the desktop by just holding down the enter key?
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20:09<sqrt{not}>I'm not familiar with that gdm bug, but this one looks like more lightdm exclusive
20:09<twb>I just meant it sounded similar
20:09<twb>cue jwz's "do you want ants? because this is how you get ants"
20:09<sarnold>:)
20:10<twb>https://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/04/i-told-you-so-again/
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20:11<twb>xscreensaver actually has a readme that says "this looks ugly because I chose security over prettiness"
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20:14<sarnold>man we oughta enlist an army of five year olds to help test these things
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21:56<thiagp>hola
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22:01<choozy>hola
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22:05<dvs>too late!
22:06<sney>demasiado lento, haha
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22:53<sk>hi i am using debian 9 for 1 year and evrrything is ok . but recently i upgrade to debian 10 and it works quite slow . when i edit text every keystroke appears onscreen in 3 to 5 seconds lag
22:53<sk>every application is opened slow
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22:53<twb>sk: OK. What diagnostics have you already tried?
22:54<sk>hangs for sometimes when try to switch between application
22:54<sney>which desktop environment?
22:54<sk>not tried yet anything just remove lxqt and cinnamon desktop environment . use only kde
22:55<twb>sk: OK
22:55<twb>sk: when the symptoms are occurring, "uptime" and check loadavg
22:55<twb>sk: check iotop (or zpool iotop)
22:55<twb>sk: check top or htop for CPU churn
22:56<twb>sk: check "journalctl --since '10 min ago' -p4" or dmesg
22:56<sk>everything looks ok. cpu load is 3 percent and disk is running ok
22:56<twb>sk: basically look at all those metrics for anything that looks suspicious
22:56<twb>sk: OK that's a good start
22:57<twb>sk: my best (vague!) guess so far would be swap thrash
22:58<twb>sk: so I would be looking at nuber of IOPS being serviced in iotop/iostat and I guess also "free -h"
22:58<sk>what is swap thrash
22:58<twb>sk: that's where your applications don't fit into RAM anymore
22:58<twb>sk: "free -h | pastebinit" --- what does yours look like?
22:59-!-Iarfen [~quassel@181.43.56.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:59<twb>The "Swap: used" column should be at or near zero
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23:00<sk>pastbinit command not found
23:00<sk>pastebinit
23:01<sqrt{not}>!pastebinit
23:01<dpkg>A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
23:03<sk>swap 3.8Gi used 1.0Mi free 3.8Gi
23:03<twb>great
23:03<twb>so swap thrash isn't the problem
23:04<sk>memory is also half free 1.8Gi
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23:06<sk> total used free shared buff/cache available
23:06<sk>Mem: 3.6Gi 1.5Gi 221Mi 152Mi 2.0Gi 1.8Gi
23:06<sk>looks like ram is full with buff/cache
23:07<twb>That is as is should be
23:07<twb>"empty" ram is wasted, so the kernel automatically uses any leftover ram as a read cache for the hard disks
23:08<sk>i tried both kernel version 4.19 and 4.09 but same problem
23:08<twb>If buff/cache was much less than free, it would indicate something had tricked the kernel into flushing its disk cache
23:08-!-phantomcircuit_ is now known as phantomcircuit
23:08<twb>sk: I think you mean 4.19 and 4.9?
23:08<sk>yes
23:09<twb>4.19 is the default in Debian 10. You could try the backport kernel (currently 5.9) but I wouldn't expect that to automatically fix things
23:09<sk>when i open text editor like kate and use ibus to type indian language , letters apears on screen very slowly
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23:10<sk>browser like firefox and tor opens slowly and sometime they hangs the system for 5 minutes
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23:12<twb>you mean hindi?
23:12<sk>i have dual boot windows 10 . that runs like charm . no problem .
23:14<sk>i think debian new update have somethink to do with slow work. any package missing or something . i do not understand .
23:14<sk>yes
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23:14<sk>hindi
23:14<sk>when i switch between hindi and english both language typing work slow down
23:15<twb>OK so if the problem symptoms are triggered by that, then maybe the problem is the input method framework?
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23:15<twb>Is it ibus?
23:15<sk>yes
23:16<twb>I can't read/write devangari yet so I don't know how to debug ibus :-(
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23:16<sk>reader like okular is also opened pdf slow and page scrolling lags considerably
23:17<twb>was anything interesting in the journalctl command I gave?
23:17<sk>overall os operating is slow when open any application . it operATE LIKE OLD PC
23:19<twb>you need to isolate the fault to a specific program (e.g. ibus) or a specific resource (e.g. disk IOPS) that is broken
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23:19<twb>I can't really give better suggestions than what I have already said
23:20<sk>ok. how to isolate disk iops
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23:22<twb>try "iostat -c5"; ignore the first line (that's boot time), wait 5 seconds, then look at the line that appears
23:22<twb>Sorry that's "iostat 5"
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23:24<sk>cpu is 98.69 percent idle
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23:25<sk>device sda is 3 - 10 kb read write
23:26<sk>everything looks good
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 06 00:00:42 2021