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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-02-09

---Logopened Tue Feb 09 00:00:31 2021
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00:01-!-m1sc is "m1sc" on #debian-next #debian
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00:06-!-iisi is "IIsi 50MHz" on #debian
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00:28-!-brunoramos_ is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian-xfce #packaging #oftc #help #debian-perl #debian-next #debian
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00:29-!-Jad is "Jad Madi" on #debian #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-dpkg #debian-desktop #debian-privacy #bash #bash-completion #debconf-fosdem #debian-gitlab #debian-i18n #debian-social #suckless
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00:34-!-EmleyMoor is "Phil Reynolds" on #debian
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00:37-!-x0f is "realname" on #debian-l10n-fr #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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00:49-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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01:01-!-njoseph is "Joseph Nuthalapati" on #debian-fasttrack #minidebconf-online #freedombox #debian-elixir #freedombox-ci #debian-fediverse #freedombox-dev #debian-gitlab #debian #debian-social
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01:06-!-fred1m is "Fred LE MEUR" on #freedombox #freedombox-dev #mobian #debian #debian-devel-changes @#hautilstssio #debian-next #freedombox-ci
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01:10-!-x0f is "realname" on #debian-l10n-fr #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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01:12-!-fred1m is "Fred LE MEUR" on #freedombox-dev #debian-devel-changes #freedombox @#hautilstssio #freedombox-ci #mobian #debian #debian-next
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01:30-!-daggets is "realname" on #debian
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01:39-!-Taserface is "Taserface" on #debian #linux-rt
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01:39-!-LStranger is "Lone on the Way" on #debian #lxde
01:40<Taserface>hi, quick question, is it possible to get a debian (buster or newer) desktop system to shutdown immediately when the power button is pressed, rather than give the user a minute to change their mind?
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01:47-!-x0f is "realname" on #debian #redditprivacy #linux #debian-next #debian-l10n-fr
01:50<tarzeau>Taserface: poweroff
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01:51<tarzeau>Taserface: tell the power button to run poweroff instead of whatever giving 60s thinking time
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01:56-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #oftc #debian
01:58<diogenes_oftc>Taserface, KDE?
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01:59-!-nu-c is "realname" on #debian
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02:09<Taserface>MATE
02:10<MrExploit>Hello
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02:11-!-Hackerpcs is "user" on #debian-xfce #debian-ubuntu #debian-nginx #debian-multimedia #debian-live #debian-desktop #debian-amd64 #debian #redditprivacy #tor-project
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02:49-!-kini is "Keshav Kini -- http://github.com/kini" on #debian #virt #debian-japanese @#aptitude #debian-next #llvm #debian-pdx
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03:42-!-Texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
03:45-!-Q-Master [~q-master@93-81-34-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #debian
03:45-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian-next #debian
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03:53-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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04:14<Guest12727>hello everybody!!
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04:36-!-mpmc_ is "Mark" on #siduction-admin #phillw #debian-next #debian
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04:43-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #qemu #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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04:48<bauen1>hi, i was wondering if there was an easy way of telling apt-get / dpkg to not enable or start services when installing a package ? I have a setup automated with ansible, but installing some packages will fail to configure e.g. because of wrong ports or other issues
04:49<grawity>write a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d script
04:49<bauen1>grawity: is that script documented anywhere ?
04:49<grawity>or systemctl mask the service before installing, I always do that with rsync
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04:49<bauen1>oh yeah that later option sounds a bit easier to do
04:50<bauen1>still not very nice for the ansible side, but less hackish, thanks
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04:50-!-fred1m is "Fred LE MEUR" on #freedombox-ci #freedombox #debian-next @#hautilstssio #freedombox-dev #mobian #debian #debian-devel-changes
04:50<grawity>I don't remember where policy-rc.d is documented, seems like it's part of invoke-rc.d manual
04:51<grawity>https://people.debian.org/~hmh/invokerc.d-policyrc.d-specification.txt
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04:54-!-Agent47 is "47" on #debian #debian-next
04:55<bentham>grawity: that systemctl mask trick sounds interesting. Do you think it might be useful to systemctl mask ssh before I crossgrade a system remotely?
04:55<grawity>hm, why?
04:55<bentham>Well, I'm concerned about losing my ability to ssh into a remote system during the crossgrading proces.
04:55-!-paktosan [~quassel@x8d1e1e03.agdsn.tu-dresden.de] has joined #debian
04:55-!-paktosan is "Julian F\xF6lsch" on #ovirt #ceph #debian #oftc
04:55<bentham>(process)
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04:56<bentham>That would make me ad.
04:56<bentham>(sad, rather)
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04:57<bauen1>bentham: there might be a better way to prevent restarting of ssh during upgrade, but it could work ; but do you consider power loss during upgrade (or is the chance low enough to not think about it) ?
04:58<grawity>merely restarting ssh doesn't kill connections, usually
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04:58<grawity>and in some cases *not* restarting after a sshd upgrade is what actually prevents new connections...
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04:59<bentham>bauen1: I have a backup power supply and am not specifically concerned about power loss during upgrade, any more than I would be at any moment.
05:00<bentham>grawity: I'm concerned in the cross-grading case, since I'll be replacing core libraries.
05:00<bentham>Maybe this is not an issue, but I don't feel confident about it.
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05:01<bentham>I have lost ssh connections during upgrades in the past.
05:01<bauen1>bentham: i've thought a bit about a read-only root before, but couldn't you make a snapshot (and reboot ?) use it to run sshd + core services, and mount the real filesystem as a chroot and then do the upgrade in there, only rebooting into the upgraded system once done ; probably a bit extreme but would work
05:02<bentham>bauen1: that sounds complicated; I'm likely to get it wrong.
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05:04<bentham>Really I just want to make sure that I have a working sshd. Maybe I can run one on a different port that will not be restarted?
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05:05<bentham>Can I expect that such an sshd would work continuously, even whilst the libraries upon which it depends are replaced on the filesystem?
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05:07<bentham>I'm not sure exactly what makes crossgrading risky here, although my ssh connection was interrupted the last time I tried this, which scared me.
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05:11<grawity>existing sshd worker processes have no reason to die; I do expect new ones might no longer be able to start in some situations
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05:11<grawity>or bash might fail to start, or su/sudo might fail
05:11<bentham>grawity: I agree that losing an ssh session for whatever random network reason becomes an issue if I cannot start a new one.
05:12<bentham>grawity: yup.
05:12<grawity>so even on a separate port always make sure to have *live* connections with a root shell
05:12<bentham>I'm less worried about sudo since I can have a live root shell in screen.
05:12<grawity>as for network, dunno, install mosh on the system?
05:12<grawity>that won't die even if the connection gets interrupted
05:12<grawity>screen isn't foolproof
05:13<grawity>both screen and tmux had cases where a new client couldn't attach to old server anymore
05:13<bentham>Hm, that is bad.
05:13<bauen1>if you really want to be sure snapshots+chroot are probably the way to go (even if somewhat complicated)
05:13<grawity>even regular buster>bullseye warns about tmux 3.1 having this issue
05:13<bentham>I would not want to be dependent upon the network near where I am physically located.
05:13<bentham>(in any sense)
05:14<grawity>use mosh then
05:14<grawity>and tbh look into getting serial console for those important systems >_>
05:14<bentham>grawity: that is not possible unfortunately.
05:14<bentham>(hence the concern)
05:15<grawity>hmm, why not
05:15<bentham>Let me look into this 'mosh' option.
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05:16<grawity>(I don't necessarily mean iLO or an expensive KVM device, at work one server just has a serial cable going to a USB adapter to an old Mikrotik router we had spare...)
05:17<bentham>grawity: I understand. My constraint is that I do not have physical access to this system.
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05:18<bentham>And it will be very expensive to enlist the assistance of someone who does.
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05:18<bentham>So I'd prefer to avoid that, or anything that might lead to me needing to do that (e.g. anything complicated that I will probably botch).
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05:27<bentham>mosh looks like it could be my answer.
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05:28<bentham>grawity: thanks! I'll try it.
05:29<bentham>bauen1: thank you also, although I think that the idea of creating a virtual environment for this purpose is too much.
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06:13<sandra>Getting "Operation not permitted" on modprobe nvidia even though dpkg -l|grep image-`uname -r` says unsigned and mokutil -l says "This system doesn't support Secure Boot" on a late 2008 unibody macbook with Debian 10.7 and no noveau in lsmod
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06:17<sandra>The module was built with dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-legacy-340xx-kernel-kdms, a command that builds and then tries to install the module and gets that same error.
06:18<sandra>When running dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-legacy-340xx-kernel-kdms, it says that it can't remove updates/dkms because the directory is not empty
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06:20<sandra>It seems to build fine and I can find it in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/updates/dkms/
06:20<ottavio>Is there a channel for Debian hams? Or maybe just linux hams?
06:22<sandra>https://ellen.idiomdrottning.org/dkms.txt
06:22<sandra>ottavio: yes, #debian-hams on irc.debian.org
06:23<ottavio>sandra: thanks
06:23<sandra>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianHams
06:23<jm_>still that issue with modprobe? I plan on converting my system to UEFI, but now I am having second thoughts
06:23<sandra>If irc.debian.org is an OFTC network that means there's only one person in there right now
06:23<sandra>jm_: Yeah, same issue as the other day
06:24<sandra>I gave up unresolved and put it away for a while and am coming back to it now
06:24<sandra>jm_: I'm not sure if I'm on UEFI or not
06:24<sandra>I probably am since it's a macbook
06:24<jm_>sandra: if you have files in /sys/firmware/efi then you are
06:25<sandra>find /sys/firmware/efi|wc -l ⇒ 364
06:25<sandra>Yeah I guess so
06:25<sandra>That's a great clue to this modprobe problem!
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06:33<niklas_>hey
06:33<sandra>"Secure Boot not enabled on this system"
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06:42<sandra>Looking through journalctl, it seems like the current nvidia driver is still present on here somehow and is haunting the system
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06:45<sandra>The non-legacy one. So even though it's not noveau it's another similar type collision ← I obviously don't know that I'm talking about but… It's because journalctl said "The 418.152.00 NVIDIA driver will ignore this GPU. Continuing probe..." before borking out
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07:03<Anarka>418 seems a bit new for such an old card
07:03<sandra>That's the issue, it's supposed to be 340
07:03<sandra>So somehow the newer driver didn't completely removed by apt
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07:06<Anarka>tried removing all nvidia related packages(or at least the 418 ones) and starting fresh ?
07:07<sandra>Wow, there were a lot
07:07<sandra>Defo trying that
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07:08<sandra>(I love debian♥)
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07:11<sandra>Hahaha (if this works), this is exactly what I wanted to ask originally—when installing -legacy, do I need to remove the non-legacy ones? SMH♥
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07:13<sandra>Wow it crashed
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07:13<Anarka>what ? :)
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07:14<sandra>At the console, dpkg -l |grep nvidia| cut -d\ -f3|xargs apt remove -y
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07:17<sandra>OK I could Ctrl -C
07:18<sandra>Now dpkg is locked
07:18<sandra>I should'na Ctrl-C in this day and age
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07:18<Anarka>dpkg crashed on the remove ?
07:18<dpkg>Anarka: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
07:19<sandra>Anarka: yeah
07:19<Anarka>=)
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07:21<sandra>It's still visible in ps aux and pgrep. The process that this dumb bot is named after, that is
07:22<Anarka>fun, kill and retry ?
07:22<sandra>Old school♥
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07:28<sandra>Everything nvidia-related nuked&purged (and rebooted for good measure). Now doing apt-install nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver and it wants to hook in some of the 418 packages? OK… I hope it's being pretty discriminating about that!
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07:29<sandra>Also I remembered to do ip a on the laptop so I can know my SSH address and SSH in later without having to understand whatever the heck "ARP" is
07:30<sandra>"Conflicting nouveau kernel module loaded" !?! Whiskey tango!
07:30<sandra>Oh so there is a u
07:30<Anarka>didnt the installer blacklisted nouveau ?
07:31<Anarka>guess not...
07:31<sandra>Right, it says to reboot to so the blacklist will take effect. But I didn't have nouveau the other day I think https://ellen.idiomdrottning.org/lsmod.txt ← my old lsmod from that day
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07:35<sandra>It worked♥
07:35<Anarka>w00t ? :)
07:35<Anarka>that was easy :p
07:36<sandra>So proud of doing so much of the work on this on my own. Thanks to everyone here for the moral support.
07:36<sandra>Yeah, the issue was that the 418 stuff was haunting me
07:36<sandra>Well… easy…? Three full days of work basically
07:36<Anarka>hey... could have been 4
07:36<sandra>true♥
07:37<apteryx>hello! Is there a way to get nasm v2.13+ on stretch?
07:37<apteryx>as well as a C++17 capable GCC?
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07:39<bauen1>,dpkg nasm
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07:48<apteryx>it's currently at 2.12 on Debian 9.
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08:04<jm_>,versions nasm
08:04<judd>Package: nasm on amd64 -- jessie: 2.11.05-1; stretch: 2.12.01-1+b1; stretch-multimedia: 2.13.01-1.1; buster: 2.14-1; bullseye: 2.15.05-1; sid: 2.15.05-1
08:04<jm_>,checkbackport nasm
08:04<judd>Backporting package nasm in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13).
08:04<jm_>looks doable
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08:06<apteryx>what is stretch-multimedia?
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08:08<apteryx>using a mixed system approach I could get NASM version 2.15.05
08:08<apteryx>upgrading GCC though seems more... problematic? We'll see. That's a throwaway container.
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08:09<Reinhard>Funknetzwerk
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08:18<javsanpar>Hello! Does OFTC let you enter #debian-live?
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08:24<bremner>javsanpar: sure, /join #debian-live
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08:24<bremner>what happens when you try?
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08:25<javsanpar>ooh, it worked. Thanks! Using Thunderbird "Join Chat" button did not work.
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08:56<apteryx>would a package built with gcc 10 run on a runtime built with gcc 6?
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08:56<apteryx>e.g., would a package built using gcc 10 from testing run correctly on stable?
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08:57<sandra>The libc needs to match
08:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 750] by debhelper
08:58<sandra>Some other things
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08:58<apteryx>OK, so a C++17 relying package is doomed on Debian 9
08:59<jm_>without new libstdc++ it must be
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09:00<sandra>I heard that you can kinda sorta run other Debian versions in a chroot or in a systemd-nspawn but I haven't gotten that to work
09:00<sandra>That could be kind of a solution
09:00<apteryx>OK
09:01<apteryx>I'll tackle the problem from a different direction then; we already have snaps; a Guix package could be useful too.
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09:01<apteryx>thanks for the insights
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09:01<jm_>I used to do that when I wanted to test something quickly (i.e. no VM), deboostrap + eatmydata :)
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09:06<sandra>This me typing on the laptop BTW! Finally. (Although I'm just SSH-ing into the desktop to do so.)
09:06<sandra>I can't figure out how to set the brightness but maybe that can be a project for another day.
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09:17<sandra>https://wiki.debian.org/MacBook#Backlight_.2B-_Volume_.2B-_CD_Eject_button wow, that's pretty rough; both links to backlight stuff are deader than disco
09:17<sandra>Backlight is absolutely maxed out
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10:14<xonorc>Hi peeps! Anyone have an official link for setting up WoL (Wake-on-LAN) ...?
10:15<Mister00X>xonorc: thats BIOS depending right?
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10:18<Mister00X>xonorc: and of course there is that one https://wiki.debian.org/WakeOnLan
10:24<grove>Do you want the debian machine to send the WoL packages on be the one woken up?
10:25<grove>The latter is BIOS specific. The former is easy, but I don't remember how (it's been nearly twenty years since I played with that)
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10:30<xonorc>I would like to wake up my Debian machine
10:30<xonorc>Followed numerous links on the net but non are working and they not official Debian pages.
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10:33<xonorc>Are we able to post the code on this forum?
10:33<blast007>xonorc: did you enable it in your BIOS or UEFI setup?
10:33<xonorc>Yes its enabled in BIOS ... at least. Hah
10:33<blast007>if you need to paste more than a line or two of text, use a pastebin
10:33<blast007>!paste
10:33<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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10:35<xonorc>Tried this link - https://www.hutsky.cz/blog/2018/03/debian-buster-and-wake-on-lan/
10:35<xonorc>Will send the others I tried also
10:36<xonorc>Tried the following also - https://blog.filegarden.net/2020/06/08/how-to-enable-wake-on-lan-in-ubuntu-server-18-04-debian-based-systems-systemd/
10:38<xonorc>according to ethtool its enabled " Supports Wake-on: g " / "Wake-on: g"
10:41<xonorc>https://paste.debian.net/1184718
10:41<blast007>when the system is turned off, does one or both lights on the network port stay lit up (or at least, flash)?
10:42<devicenull>is there an rsync location for the security repo, or do I have to screw around with apt-mirror?
10:42<devicenull>I have an isolated network that can't reach the official one
10:43<xonorc>The activity lights on the NIC are on. There is also a link light on the front of the chassis. When I send the command from Mikrotik the network LED on the front flickers
10:44<blast007>that's a good sign, at least
10:44<xonorc>Something is happening but I am assuming there is a miss in my config
10:46<xonorc>Tried to find an official debian page with more info but cant seem to find one or perhaps I missed it ...
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10:48<zerocoul>hi can someone help me??
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10:49<xonorc>Ill run some more tests using the following link - https://www.lisenet.com/2013/set-up-wake-on-lan-wol-on-a-debian-wheezy-server/
10:50<avu>zerocoul: unlikely somebody will commit to helping you before you ask your question ;)
10:50<zerocoul>Hi, i have a stretch server running and am trying to configurate a server ppp
10:50<zerocoul>someone know how to do that??
10:50<avu>zerocoul: what "server app" and what about it do you want to configure and what have you tried already and how has it failed?
10:52<blast007>or are we talking about Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP)?
10:52<avu>ah, probably, I totally misread that as "app" :)
10:52<avu>still, most of my questions still stand
10:52<zerocoul>am have not see a "server app", and I was looking for information and all I have found was about to setup my server to pass trhoug de modem no viceversa
10:53<zerocoul>yeap is ppp
10:53<blast007>!ppp
10:53<dpkg>Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) is a data link protocol frequently used in connecting a dial-up <modem> to the Internet. It is not supported at Debian installation time. To enable on established systems, "aptitude install pppconfig && pppconfig". For more information on Debian's PPP package, "zless /usr/share/doc/ppp/README.Debian.gz". See also <pppoe>, <kppp>, <wvdial>. http://wiki.debian.org/PPP
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10:56<zerocoul>thx blast007 but i have search on the wiki and i only saw how to configure miy sistem to make the call, not to recive it
10:57<blast007>ah
10:57<zerocoul>sorry for my bad english
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11:02-!-free2 is "☃" on #suckless #bash-completion #bash #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #debian-forums #debian-tech @#cpp #c++ ##c #C #postgresql @#web #mariadb #mysql #java #php ##linux #linux #bcache #DeforaOS #privacytech #tkiwitest #432 #garlic #offtopic @#prog #publiclab #bitbot #mitmproxy #proxallium #help @#0FTC
11:06-!-lenharo [~lenharo@2804:14c:87c4:d47c:73bc:3bb0:7aed:e3fe] has joined #debian
11:06-!-lenharo is "Daniel Lenharo" on #minidebconf-online #debian-social #debian-nonupload #debian-next #debian-lists #debian-i18n #debian-devel-changes #debian-devel-br #debian-bsb #debian-br #debian
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11:09<blast007>zerocoul: /usr/share/doc/ppp/README.Debian.gz does mention an "Inbound setup combined with mgetty" - I know pretty much nothing about PPP though, so I'm not sure if that helps.
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11:15-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian-meeting #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-edu #debian-lan
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11:20-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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11:22-!-pamaury is "Amaury Pouly" on #debian #oftc #debian-next
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11:23-!-nt1036 is "realname" on #C #debian #debian-amd64 #debian-devel-changes #debian-java #debian-lts #debian-meeting #debian-rant #debian-ubuntu #linux #oftc #qemu
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11:27-!-hubert is "realname" on #debian
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11:28-!-wololoer is "user" on #qemu #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
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11:31-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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11:31-!-metroidman is "metroidman" on #debian
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11:32-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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11:32-!-x0f is "realname" on #debian-l10n-fr #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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11:37-!-sinan is "sinan" on #debian
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11:37-!-user is "user" on #debian
11:37<user>hi
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11:46-!-x0f is "realname" on #debian-l10n-fr #debian-next #linux #redditprivacy #debian
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11:52-!-njoseph is "Joseph Nuthalapati" on #debian-fasttrack #freedombox-ci #minidebconf-online #debian-gitlab #freedombox-dev #freedombox #debian-fediverse #debian-social #debian-elixir #debian
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11:55-!-choozy is "Kees Korteweg,,," on #mobian #debian #debian-mali
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11:56-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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11:57-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian-es #debian
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11:58-!-netvor is "amahdal" on #debian
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12:00-!-aindilis` is "Andrew John Dougherty" on #debian
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12:01-!-nicole_ is "Nicole Collard" on #debian
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12:02-!-torify is "torify" on #debian #guardianproject #oftc #tor-dev #tor-project
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12:04-!-Human_G33k is "realname" on #open-source-java #debian-gitlab #debian-java #debian-kde #suckless #debian-next #debian-meeting #debian-devel-changes #debian-desktop #debian-debsources #debian
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12:06-!-Human_G33k is "realname" on #debian #debian-debsources #debian-desktop #debian-devel-changes #debian-meeting #debian-next #suckless #debian-kde #debian-java #debian-gitlab #open-source-java
12:08-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e003:83e:401:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
12:08-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
12:14<Sqrt{not}>zerocoul, see https://wiki.debian.org/pppd (note that it has translations also for Spanish, French, and Italian)
12:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 762] by debhelper
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12:20-!-l30n4rd0 is "l30n4rd0" on #debian #debian-devel-br
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12:28-!-duckydanny is "Dan" on #tor-project #moocows #linode #debian
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12:35-!-Human_G33k is "realname" on #open-source-java #debian-gitlab #debian-java #debian-kde #suckless #debian-next #debian-meeting #debian-devel-changes #debian-desktop #debian-debsources #debian
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12:37-!-orbatos is "orbatos" on #debian
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12:38-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
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12:39-!-sinfulcritic is "realname" on #debian
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12:39-!-hele__ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
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12:40-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
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12:41-!-aindilis is "Andrew John Dougherty" on #debian
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12:49-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #qemu #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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12:52-!-dftxbs3e is "realname" on #ovirt #packaging #debian #qemu #virt
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12:58-!-asterismo is "Santiago" on #debian
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13:02-!-bastetx is "bastetx" on #debian
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13:03-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #bitlbee
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13:03-!-Talkless is "Talkless" on #debian-next #debian
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13:07-!-kamarat is "realname" on #debian
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13:11-!-llandon is "Andreas Schwarz" on #debian
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13:12-!-llandon is "Andreas Schwarz" on #debian
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13:14-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
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13:17-!-lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-br #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-bsb
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13:17-!-eti is "really?" on #debian #debian-next
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13:18-!-mnemonic is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #bitlbee
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13:21-!-loyiza is "realname" on #debian
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13:30-!-lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-br #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-bsb
13:33-!-chemillo [~smuxi@201.123.239.151] has joined #debian
13:33-!-chemillo is "Your Name" on #debian
13:34-!-chemillo_ [~smuxi@201.123.239.151] has joined #debian
13:34-!-chemillo_ is "Your Name" on #debian
13:35<chemillo_>hi
13:35<bittin^_>hey
13:35<chemillo>whats up
13:36<bittin^_>nothing much
13:36<chemillo_>oh ya
13:37<chemillo_>where are you from
13:37<chemillo_>?
13:37<blast007>!chat
13:37<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic (either freenode or oftc) or #moocows on irc.oftc.net, ##chat on irc.freenode.net, or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
13:37<bittin^_>Sweden
13:37<bittin^_>sorry
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13:38<chemillo>oh thats so cool
13:42-!-f3nix [~f3nix@2a02:587:7e16:6d00:2ae:e17f:c116:879] has joined #debian
13:42-!-f3nix is "Chrysanthos Panagakos" on #debian
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13:43-!-chemillo__ is "Your Name" on #debian
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13:47-!-chemillo__ is "Your Name" on #debian
13:47<chemillo__>blast007: hi
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13:47-!-chemillo is "Your Name" on #debian
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13:49-!-tt is "realname" on #debian
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13:53-!-hollowanderer is "realname" on #debian
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13:53-!-msantana is "Marcelo Santana" on #debian
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13:54-!-msantana is now known as Guest12759
13:54-!-Guest12759 is now known as msantana
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13:55-!-zleap is "realname" on #minidebconf-online #debian-academy #debian-next #debian
13:57-!-f3nix_ [~f3nix@2a02:587:7e16:6d00:2ae:e17f:c116:879] has joined #debian
13:57-!-f3nix_ is "Chrysanthos Panagakos" on #debian
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13:58-!-gabriel1 is "Gabx" on #security #retroshare #Qubes_OS #i2p #debian
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13:58-!-jstein is "Jonas Stein" on #kernelnewbies @#mint @#fsfe #debian
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14:09<ellania>is there anybody who knows about mxlinux>
14:09<imMute>!mxlinux
14:09<dpkg>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
14:10<ellania>thanks for the help
14:10<ellania>!mxlinux
14:10<dpkg>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
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14:17<gcs>How / Where to report autopkg bugs / lost logs?
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14:21<bremner>maybe a question for -devel?
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14:24<azeem>gcs: what's autopkg?
14:24<azeem>do you mean autopkgtest, or is that something else
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14:24<gcs>azeem: autopkgtest
14:25<azeem>*nod*
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14:57<devicenull>how can I skip using partman during a preseed, and just use a shell script instead?
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15:39-!-dreamer is "more words because I have to make it longer again" on #hackerspace-drenthe #debian #debian-next #wesp
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15:59<Tas-sos>Offtopic: If you have used the "lnav" tool, you should suggest me some good uses, practices or tips ?
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16:11<practicer>Is this a noob question friendly channel?
16:11<bitdefect>When does Debian run unattended-upgrades, if _no_ /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02periodic file is created?
16:12<bitdefect>practicer: I think so, but you might want to google for "metaquestion" :)
16:12<sarnold>practicer: sure
16:12<bitdefect>practicer: Just ask your question :)
16:13<bitdefect>sarnold: Ah, the apparmor guy :)
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16:14<sarnold>:D
16:16<practicer>"/query"
16:17<azeem>don't /query people in here without themn requesting it, please
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16:25<bitdefect>Found it, it is done via apt-daily.timer.
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19:07<maxrazer>Does anyone know why DNS would stop working when connected to a VPN?
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19:08<sarnold>can you still route to it? try ip route get x.x.x.x for whatever the IP address of your dns recursor is
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19:08<sney>some vpns ship their own dns hosts so that you are also resolving via the vpn, this can misbehave sometimes
19:10<maxrazer>Ok, I'm going to try restarting too.
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19:26<maxrazer>What do I do with the ip route get x.x.x.x output?
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19:27<sney>make sure you can still ping/reach the host after 'via'
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19:28<duro>hi
19:28<sney>hi
19:28<duro>damn where am i
19:29<sney>!irc
19:29<dpkg>IRC is Internet Relay Chat, the means to provide #debian to its patrons. Debian IRC channels are listed at http://wiki.debian.org/IRC . Please read http://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc . Ask me about <irc tutorial> and <faq>. See also <debstats> and <irclog>.
19:29<duro>i have just installed this os
19:30<maxrazer>IRC seems to be working though.
19:30<maxrazer>But, not the web browsers.
19:30<maxrazer>I can ping the ip listed after "iva"
19:30<sney>duro: well, if "this" os is debian (and not mxlinux or ubuntu or whatever), then if you need any help, you can ask here
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19:32<maxrazer>I guess IRC doesn't need DNS once connected
19:32<sney>correct
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19:38<maxrazer>It looks like I did lose IRC connection when connecting to VPN. It can happen, eventually.
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19:38<sarnold>that can happen if the vpn installs new routes for the ip addresses in question
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19:39<sarnold>I always have to disconnect / reconnect my imap connection to work when I enable or disable the work vpn, because it installs routes that cover the imap server
19:40<maxrazer>Well, if I start VPN and then start the web browser the DNS does not work in the browser. It doesn't matter if I start the browser before or after.
19:41<em>hi Im trying to figure out how to search the debian bug database for keywords in the title. so far all of the searchs apprea to assume that I either know the package name or the bug number. as a newcomer to the bug base I find the interface and accompanying docs to be massively unusable. I have used other bug databases before I do know some programming, so not a newb in that sense just new to debian bugs and very frustrated by
19:41<em>it. someone ought to give some thought to improving it.... but meanwhile I am trying to solve a very well known problem of no sound on nvidia hdmi and can't figure out how to locate that info in the bug base, a few pointers would be greatly appreciated.
19:42<sney>em: yes, the debian BTS is pretty old. future improvements aren't impossible, but not likely to happen quickly. I find that when I need a fuzzier search than the built-in options, I will use a separate web search, e.g. 'nvidia hdmi site:bugs.debian.org'
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19:45<em>hmm, thanks for the suggestion. so far in general searching no references to debian bugs turned up so I suspected it wasn't being indexed, but I did not specifically search for that site. I will give it a try.
19:46<sney>em: if you want support here (as this is a support channel), please expand on your problem description. is this optimus? what have you tried so far? are you going straight from hdmi to hdmi or is there an adapter, like displayport, in between? etc as applicable to your situation.
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19:51<em>ok, thanks. it's an nvidia geforce gtx 970m not positive but I don't think that is an optimus. I go straight from the laptop to the TV. I get the status message that the audio is unplugged. this worked on xbuntu, but I finally got fed up with their unusable security model and switched to debian. I vaguly recall having some issues with xbuntu but it was so long ago I don't recall how I solved it.
19:53<sney>ubuntu and debian take different approaches to drivers a lot of the time anyway. it would be optimus if there's also an intel gpu, and rendering tasks are shared between them in some way.
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20:02<em>sney: arrgh my network dropped just after I posted that so didn't see any replies
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20:02<sney>[17:53:52] <sney> ubuntu and debian take different approaches to drivers a lot of the time anyway. it would be optimus if there's also an intel gpu, and rendering tasks are shared between them in some way.
20:03<em>I looked up nvidia specs and it does say that it support optimus...
20:03<em>my lapto is an I7
20:03<sney>you will need to look at lspci, there is a huge variety among optimus implementations and laptop models so it's never possible to guess
20:04<em>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM204M [GeForce GTX 970M] (rev a1)
20:04<em>01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GM204 High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1)
20:05<sney>is that the only vga/video entry?
20:05<sney>(don't paste to the channel, just look at it)
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20:06<em>lots of stuff about pci and usb, but that is all I see concerning video and audio
20:07<sney>ok, good. not optimus.
20:07<sney>what driver are you using?
20:08<maxrazer_>I find that debian with Plasma desktop and testing repositories with unstable as a backup for missing packages works well.
20:08<em>maxrazor: you need a VPN that forwards DNS. alternatily if you can use firefox it has the ability to bypass the normal DNS and do it's own secure DNS directly.
20:09<maxrazer_>Oh, that isn't a very new gpu. I'm not sure if you need very new drivers.
20:09<maxrazer_>I got DNS working in browser. I added socks5 settings frpm the VPN provider.
20:09<maxrazer_>They didn't say to do that, but I remembered it was an option and plugged it in.
20:13<em>sney: G3DVL VDPAU Driver Shared Library version 1.0 is that what you are looking for?
20:14<sney>em: no, just whether you're using the nouveau driver that comes with debian, or if you installed nvidia-driver from non-free. don't take this as instructions, right now we just want information.
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20:15<em>at this point... I have not specifically installed an nvidia driver, that's one of things I was trying to figure out how to do.
20:16<sney>ok. the first thing to try is installing the 'firmware-misc-nonfree' package, which includes some files that can sometimes enable extra features in the nouveau driver.
20:17<sney>!non-free sources
20:17<dpkg>Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
20:17<sney>^ do this, install that package, reboot, and try your hdmi test
20:18<em>yes, I did get firmware-misc-nonfree installed
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20:19<sney>and you have the same issue, after rebooting? the reboot is important as it make sure all the driver components are loaded in the right order
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20:20<em>yes been rebooted multiple times (for other things) but I see that I don't have the "main contrib non-free" packages so I will try that
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20:21<sney>those aren't packages, they are sections of the mirror. but you will need them anyway for the proprietary nvidia driver, so go ahead.
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20:24<em>maxrazor: since your VPN provider didn't specify socks5 they may not support it or have it enabled. I did a google search because my knowledge of DNS is pretty rusty, and I see ad's by VPN providers specifically proclaiming that they support socks5, so by implication there are others who don't.
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20:26<em>sney: you say potato I say poe tot toe... LOL
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20:28<sarnold>debian potato is *so old*
20:31<em>ha ha ha actually I was trying to figure out how to enable the <non-free> on ubuntu it's just a checkbox that you click. sorry but I'm not a linux expert. and it's been years since I've had to dink with this low level stuff. so thank you for all of the help
20:32<sarnold>did you get it?
20:33<em>hang on..... working on it
20:34<HumanGeek>hello there is a way to mark a package as configure ?
20:37<abrotman>as what?
20:37<sney>em: with the firmware installed, check 'pacmd list-cards' and check your nvidia card's profiles section to see if they are just off. if they are, you will probably just need to change the profile to enable it.
20:37<abrotman>HumanGeek: what isn't working?
20:37<sney>if not, installing the nvidia proprietary driver will be the next step.
20:38<em>suddenly I have a very different version of firmware-misc-nonfree and it has specific entries for nvidia. let me try rebooting... thanks all.
20:38<jhutchins>, this is Debian, not Ubuntu, and we manage source repositories by intelligently editing source file rather that blindly clicking checkboxesk. The complication of GUI package managers, or configuration management tools in general, often leads to failure.\
20:40<HumanGeek>abrotman, the installation of a package stay block at the apache restart
20:41<abrotman>HumanGeek: perhaps you should show us the output (in a pastebin site)
20:41<em>yes, but cognitive overload is an important consideration.... also self-documenting UI is easier to deal with that a blank slate (text file) for which you must somehow determine the correct magical incantation. I knew I had to put non-free but my memory was vague and I couldn't quite remember the syntax.
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20:43<em>back soon, rebooting now
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20:49<HumanGeek>abrotman, https://paste.debian.net/1184820/
20:50<HumanGeek>but already have the trouble i just do not remember how to ark package install/configure
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20:54<sarnold>HumanGeek: are you running the install via a script that can't answer debconf questions?
20:54<sarnold>HumanGeek: if so, this may help: DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
20:55<HumanGeek>what can prevent that ?
20:55<HumanGeek>because i just anwser a debconf question for ldap before
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20:58<HumanGeek>DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive dpkg --configure --all
20:58<HumanGeek>same effect
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21:01<sarnold>HumanGeek: sorry, it'd be something you prepend to your apt install line
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21:03<HumanGeek>sry i tired and my english is not good. Are you saying i had something to my line or i should separate my command in 2 lines ?
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21:07<sarnold>HumanGeek: sorry -- it means that by the time you have these dpkg --status-fd 22 --configure --pending .... processes, it's probably already too late to make changes
21:08<sarnold>HumanGeek: what's this fusiondirectory thing?
21:09<sarnold>ahhh ldap web frontend gizmo.. that /varlib sure looks funny
21:09<HumanGeek>its a package in official repo and having its own repo
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21:10<em>oh AWESOME!!! thanks everyone for the help. ultimately all I had to do was enable non-free and install nvidia-driver package. (I also installed nvidia-detect which confirmed that nvidia-driver was the correct thing to install) it sure would be wonderful if there was a discoverable FAQ on the debian site somewhere, because I spent many hours looking for a solution to this. my searches were pretty unhelpful.
21:11<HumanGeek>em install a non-free is never awesome.
21:12<sney>debian tries not to encourage non-free, anyway. but sometimes it is the solution to a problem. this is documented on the debian wiki at least.
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21:12<em>well, okay, but getting a computer to actually work the way it is intended to work is always awesome... because it seldom happens :-(
21:12<HumanGeek>https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
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21:14<em>thanks for the link. being newish to debian I'm still trying to find my way around. google search mostly just truned up a bunch of random blogs none of which had the info I actually needed.
21:14<sney>particularly laptops with nvidia. you dodged a big bullet with that not being optimus, you don't even know haha
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21:15<em>oh, really, optimus is troublesome then? I thought it was a solved problem since that is what most of the blogs were talking about solving.
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21:16<sney>it's a ludicrously inconsistent kludge that only targets windows. driver support has been better in recent years, but still depends heavily on the OEM not doing something insane.
21:18<HumanGeek>nvidia business is selling drivers for cloud computing
21:18<em>yeah, I wonder how much M$ bribed them to do it that way....? or am I being too cynical?
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21:20<sney>it's ostensibly for powersave reasons, which makes sense on a laptop. it would probably be supported fine by now if the spec was stricter. I doubt microsoft was involved, it's just nvidia not caring about the minority use cases
21:20<em>I am confused as to why the non-free firmware package showed up without non-free actually being enabled. but once I enabled non-free the description of the firmware package changed considerably.
21:22<sney>there's an old video of linus torvalds cursing out nvidia, that's because of optimus. anyway. maybe the one you saw initially was firmware-linux-free. there are a bunch of different firmware packages that are used by different devices.
21:23<Human_G33k>so nobody know how to mark a package as install ?
21:24<em>all laptop hardware seems to be a "ludicrously inconsistent kludge" and M$ has been caught paying Dell to Not Support/Sell Linux. but yes you are probably right it is just part of the general chaos. on that basis I suppose it is remarkable that Linux works as well as it does.
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21:25<sney>Human_G33k: maybe 'apt-mark install'? but if a package is stuck in a partially configured state, you will need to actually address that, or it will continue to cause problems for you
21:26<sney>em: it's not 2005 anymore, nobody is impressed by calling them "M$" ;). and you're right about laptop hardware in general but optimus is considerably worse because it's like 900 different implementations all sold as the same thing. you don't know which one you're getting until you actually look at it.
21:26<em>no, it definitely said firmware-misc-nonfree but the description didn't say anything about nvidia drivers until after I modified the repository list and did an update.
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21:28<em>M$ okay, fine. and I guess the new CEO is a much better kinder genterler person. but once upon a time I worked there when balmer was still in charge and I saw frist hand a number of dirty tricks that they played.
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21:29<em><Human_G33k: you can't mark a package that is not visible
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21:30<em>mere mortals should not be expected to know how to edit the apt list ... this is why Linux still fails to take over the world as a desktop OS
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21:34<AU-S2S>Looking for some cloud-init help, but the #Debian-cloud doesn't seem to exist?
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21:36<em>sney: & all, it was great chatting with you. thanks for all the help, even though it was a trivial solution... finding that specific bit of information was not trivial. I am going to be leaving now. I will hang around for a few seconds if you have any parting comments?
21:36<sney>np, enjoy your working system
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21:39<em>oh, speaking of working as in NOT working.... that reminds me... any ideas as to why the weather app has been broken for about 3 years now any nobody is visibly doing anything about it? it was broken once before when the API changed but after about a year that was fixed. this time however no fix is in sight and YET it continues to be shipped as the default/only weather app... I mean WTF?
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21:44<sney>em: "the weather app" is not specific enough to say for sure, but broadly, weather stuff can be funky if it can't find your location for whatever reason. or there was an upstream regression and it fell through the cracks.
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21:44<sney>it is always an option to yell at the developers, haha
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21:51<em>xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.10 it's the same one that ubuntu ships... the backend people have a history of changing their API and breaking things. so I suspect that has happened again. but it's been at least 3 years now and it still continues to be THE app that is shipped without any apparent alternatives. (the location is correct that part at least still works... but the weather info comes bac as No Data)
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21:56<sney>ah yep #925561
21:56<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/925561 in xfce4-weather-plugin (open, fixed-upstream, upstream): «xfce4-weather-plugin: API Outdated»; severity: important; opened: 2019-03-26; last modified: 2020-10-18.
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21:58<em>ok, besides the weather, that brings me back to my original question... how do I / did you find that info in the bug base?
21:58<em>I found the bug interface to be inscrutable
21:58<sney>I went to bugs.debian.org/xfce4-weather-plugin and skimmed the list. as you noted earlier, a lot of it is based on knowing the package name. tracker.debian.org is a useful resource as well.
21:59<em>hmm, ok.
22:01<em>so if the bug is fixed upstream why does it take years to propagate? and how could I install the newer version? I find it super useful to have.
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22:02<sney>workarounds for using the newer version are mentioned in the thread. (you could also upgrade to bullseye.)
22:03<sney>as for why, only the xfce team knows for sure. common reasons include maintainers MIA or having bigger priorities.
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22:10<em>ok... thanks again for everything, you have been super helpful and patient ... looks like I have got a lot of reading to do. this has certainly been one of my best experiences on one of these chat support forums. usually my experience (on ubuntu forums and others) has been non answers from ignorant people. it's really nice to talk to people who know what they are on about. and not my normal experience. so thank you I am
22:10<em>really grateful.
22:10<sney>you're welcome. come back any time.
22:10<em>time to go
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22:11<em>okay I will
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22:44<rjsalts>If I wanted to change xrdp to always use fluxbox I can edit /etc/xrdp/starxwin.sh, but what's the magic I actually need in there? it does an exec /etc/X11/Xsession do I need to source it instead?
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23:12-!-dogsleg is "Lev Lamberov" on #debian-social #debian-l10n-russian #debian-devel-changes #debian-meeting #debian-haskell #debian-i18n #debian
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23:21<somiaj>rjsalts: ~/.xsession is often a decent way to setup what default user xsession is, though the answer is it depends, https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession, but for me, adding 'exec /usr/bin/fluxbox' or whatever laucnhes fluxbox is often good.
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23:23<somiaj>note unsure if xrdb bypasses this, but I belive once the user logs in .xsession should work, a quick google search also suggests ~/.Xclients https://askubuntu.com/questions/135483/how-to-configure-xrdp-to-start-cinnamon-as-default-desktop-session
23:23<somiaj>though reading the comments, ~/.xsession should just work
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23:24<rjsalts>it does use .xsession, but then so would sddm
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 10 00:00:32 2021