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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-03-23

---Logopened Tue Mar 23 00:00:31 2021
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00:02-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
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00:54<Guest701>whats up
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01:20<anix>does debian have a "meta" channel for asking questions about aspects of the debian project itself?
01:20<dzcx>3333
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01:22<Sqrt{not}>anix you could start here, or #debian-offtopic, or http://wiki.debian.org/IRC
01:23<anix>thanks, I'll give debian offtopic a try
01:24<Sqrt{not}>that wiki page lists many debian IRC channels, and their purpose
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01:26<anix>ah, I can't join #debian-offtopic
01:27<Sqrt{not}>anix, many/most of the special
01:27<Sqrt{not}>t
01:27<Sqrt{not}>specialty channels will let you in without registering I think
01:28<anix>my /join is getting rejected. Im just trying to find out now how to list the policy of oftc.net channels
01:30-!-aindilis [~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
01:30-!-aindilis is "Andrew John Dougherty" on #debian
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01:41<alex11>anix what's your question? maybe we can answer it here
01:42<alex11>there's also mailing lists at lists.debian.org but if you ask here someone may know
01:42<alex11>it's late though and everyone may be asleep
01:44<anix>my question is: is it possible to view archives of debians mailing lists?
01:46<alex11>yes, lists.debian.org has all the archives
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01:50<anix>ok, cool. say I'm interested to follow the packaging discussion for a package, e.g. firefox-esr or bash or whatever, do you know which links on lists.debian.org do I follow?
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01:51<anix>I can't make any sense of it, would that discussion be on a bug tracker?
01:51<alex11>anix i believe that information is on tracker.debian.org
01:52<alex11>or the stuff on salsa.debian.org
01:52<alex11>but i'll defer to others, i'm not super familiar with it
01:53<alex11>sorry
01:54<alex11>if you want to bug the #debian-devel channel they'll know more about it in greater detail i think
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01:54<anix>no prob, thanks
01:56<alex11>the actual commits are probably on salsa but i don't think it's very uniform, but the maintainer info is available for every package and i suspect some of them do it differently to each other
01:56<alex11>bugs.debian.org also factors into the process, stuff like wishlist bugs etc
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01:58<alex11>i think your best bet in general might be 'vcs' on tracker.debian.org, it's on the left side menu
02:03<anix>yes, this is confusing, because - which platform - are these things discussed on - and does each package use that platform (e.g tracker.debian.org or bug tracker or salsa) or does each package do it differently ?
02:03<anix>I think it's kind of a big free for all
02:04<craigevil>#debian-mentors would be the place to ask
02:05<anix>because sometimes the security team, just take over and: patch, re-compile , sign and upload new versions of the packages - independently of the regular maintainers (when a vulnerability is found)
02:05<alex11>i think the answer is 'it happens in multiple places' but i would take craigevil's advice and ask in that channel too
02:06<alex11>i forgot about that
02:06<anix>oh, cool, thanks craigevil: I'll give that a try
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02:40<jhutchins>Or then, you can just relax and realize that there has been no maissive botnet hack of any of the linus distributions and just get on with your job. (Assuming, of course, that you
02:40<jhutchins>re doing actual work.)
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02:51<anix>ouch
02:52<craigevil>work? what is this word? :)
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03:34-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #packaging #debian #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-social #debian-meeting
03:36<jhutchins>Believe me, I am all for exploring technologies for their own sake, discovering how things work, what solutions can be found to abstract problems.
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04:36<live>s
04:36<live>hello
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05:31<hgabor84>hi
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05:38<sodo>how can i install libstdc++-10-dev on debian 10?
05:39<tarzeau>!simple sid backport
05:39<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
05:40<sodo>i'll try thanks
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05:47<grove>,checkbackport libstdc++-10-dev
05:47<judd>Backporting package libstdc++-10-dev in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: lib32gcc-s1 [amd64 ppc64 kfreebsd-amd64 mipsn32 mipsn32el mips64 mips64el mipsn32r6 mipsn32r6el mips64r6 mips64r6el s390x sparc64 x32], libx32gcc-s1 [amd64 i386], binutils:native (>= 2.35.1-7), binutils-hppa64-linux-gnu:native (>= 2.35.1-7) [hppa amd64 i386 x32], amdgcn-tools [amd64], gnat-10:native
05:47<judd>[!m32r !sh3 !sh3eb !sh4eb], g++-10:native, g++-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gobjc-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gfortran-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gdc-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gccgo-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gnat-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gm2-10-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>.
05:48<grove>So doing a backport is not going to be too easy
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05:48<tarzeau>then go for #debian-next 11 bullseye?
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06:50-!-ganpa_ is "Ganesh Pawar" on #debian
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06:51-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #tor-south #tor-project #tor-mobile #tor-l10n #tor-dev #tor-bots #debian #dfri_se
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06:57-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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07:01-!-zem is "Marvin" on #debian #ceph #debian-next
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07:03-!-Bodiro is "Bo Diro" on #debian #debian.de-offtopic
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07:05-!-dpkg is "apt backup" on #debian
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07:08-!-nidamanx is "realname" on #debian
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07:11-!-dselect is "dpkg backup readonly db" on #debian
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07:16-!-nidamanx is "realname" on #debian-next #debian-academy #debian
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07:17-!-tomreyn_ is "Tom Reynolds" on #tor-dev #privacytech #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-lts #debian
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07:22-!-oss9 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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07:27-!-oss9 is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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07:28-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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07:28-!-eti is "really?" on #debian
07:28-!-ericnoan is "ericnoan" on #tor-project #Qubes_OS #linode #tor-dev #debian #redditprivacy #suckless #freedombox #openttd
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07:44<Pinguino>fasdfafa
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08:04-!-igormuzetti is "igor" on #debian
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08:13-!-Mister00X is "Mr.X" on #debian-next #debian
08:13<papie>hallo
08:13-!-SuperDal1 [dalek@124.55.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
08:14<papie>i have a problem
08:14<papie>i need some help
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08:15<ottavio>Is it good practice to add the swap partition to fstab or is it redundant?
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08:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 745] by debhelper
08:21<jm_>ottavio: you probably need to for it to be active
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08:36-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #packaging #debian #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-social #debian-meeting
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08:48-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next
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08:52<farsight>www
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09:00<grove>I would like to know who/what was responsible for upgrading a specific package (as it might break stuff it not done carefully). In /var/log/apt/history.log I can see when it was done, and the commandline used. As /usr/bin/unattended-upgrade is shown as commandline for a couple of other upgrades that day, but not the one I'm interested in. I can also see that an update I did with `sudo` last ...
09:00<grove>... week has a 'Requested-By: grove (3001)' line. So when the upgrade I'm interested in doesn't, does that mean it was done by someone logged in as root or a program running as root?
09:00-!-farsight [~farsight@117.40.235.180] has joined #debian
09:00-!-farsight is "farsight" on #debian
09:01<farsight>www
09:01<farsight>进来了,^_^
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09:04<farsight_>hello
09:05<farsight_>no body??
09:06<grove>!anybody
09:06<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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09:17-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next
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10:57<yeetgirl>hello?
10:57-!-yeetgirl is now known as yeetboi
10:58<yeetboi>hello?
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11:00<yeetboi>hello
11:00<grove>!ask
11:00<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
11:01<yeetboi>how do i create a server
11:01<simonpatapon>what kind of server
11:01<avu>yeetboi: that's a very vague question, try with (a lot) more detail
11:02<yeetboi>my own
11:02<grove>What do you expect that server to do?
11:02<yeetboi>be a chatroom
11:03-!-pmra [~smuxi@185.76.11.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:03<grove>The answer is typically to install some software that offers what you want, sometimes also some tools for administration (including logging in)
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11:03<grove>What kind of chat/network?
11:03<yeetboi>just for chatting
11:04<yeetboi>im using konversation btw
11:04<grove>Still quite vague. You can chat on XMPP/IRC/...
11:04<simonpatapon>you should just creat a channel on a already woring server
11:05<avu>yeah, perhaps what you want is just a `/join #myawesomechannel` to create your own channel?
11:05<yeetboi>yea i think that could work
11:06<yeetboi>yep it worked thanks!
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11:18<Dreamer->Hi
11:18<Dreamer->How is everyone today?
11:18<Dreamer->Quit
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11:29<dreamer>no you.
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11:41-!-eegiks_ is "eegiks" on #SDL #uml #virtualization
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11:41-!-Spitfire_ is "Do you know how to pick up the pieces and go home?" on #perl
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11:42-!-jgowdy is "jgd" on #debian
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11:43-!-Statj_ is now known as Statj
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11:46-!-nolan is "nolan" on #qemu #kernelnewbies #debian
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11:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 707] by debhelper
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11:52-!-gerdon [~Gerdon@host-80-181-111-1.pool80181.interbusiness.it] has joined #debian
11:52-!-gerdon is "realname" on #debian
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11:52-!-franzopow[m] is "org.matrix:franzopow" on #debian
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11:58-!-narispo is "narispo" on #debian #bcache
11:58-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
11:58-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
12:01-!-john [~john@2607:f2c0:f00e:a301:fd4e:9f91:d1c1:1e28] has joined #debian
12:01-!-john is "realname" on #debian
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12:04-!-nolan is "nolan" on #qemu #kernelnewbies #debian
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12:07-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:07-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
12:11-!-mambang[m] [~mambangma@2001:470:1af1:101::6d95] has joined #debian
12:11-!-mambang[m] is "org.matrix:mambang" on #debian
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12:14-!-liquidsnake is "realname" on #MXLinux #linux #debian #retroshare
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12:15-!-jumbogram[m] [~jumbogram@2001:470:1af1:101::7aa4] has joined #debian
12:15-!-jumbogram[m] is "org.matrix:jumbogram" on #debian
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12:24-!-jlsantos is "jlsantos" on #debian
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12:28-!-Iarfen is "Iarfen,,," on @##aaas #debian
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12:30-!-m0n0g0n is "m0n0g0n" on #debian
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12:34-!-nero is "tchoups" on #debian
12:34-!-totonika [~toto@aftr-37-201-215-255.unity-media.net] has joined #debian
12:34-!-totonika is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
12:35-!-arand [~arand@c-4ef0225c.05-662-7570703.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined #debian
12:35-!-arand is "Martin Erik Werner" on #debian-next #debian-games #debian
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12:45-!-live is "Live session user" on #debian
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12:45-!-brunoramos_ is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #packaging #oftc #help #debian-xfce #debian-perl #debian-next #debian
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12:48-!-RagingMind is "purple" on #debian
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12:48-!-brunoramos_ is now known as brunoramos
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12:50-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:50-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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12:50-!-Brainium is "brainium" on #debian-social #linux #virt #qemu #C #tor-project #debian-br #debian-kde #debian
12:51-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@81-67-152-104.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
12:51-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #minidebconf-online @#oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian
12:53-!-diogenes_oftc [~diogenes_@188.208.120.77] has joined #debian
12:53-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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12:56-!-hybridwipe [~null@100.42.98.196] has joined #debian
12:56-!-maschinenhans is "realname" on #debian
12:56-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #qemu #llvm #llvmlinux
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12:56-!-drdanz [~drdanzmat@2001:470:1af1:101::5768] has joined #debian
12:56-!-drdanz is "org.matrix:drdanz" on #debian #debian-devel-it #debian-robotics
12:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 713] by debhelper
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13:02-!-catman370 [~catman@pool-74-105-144-233.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
13:02-!-catman370 is "catman" on #debian #linux
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13:05-!-tito [~tito@177.222.98.177] has joined #debian
13:05-!-tito is "realname" on #debian
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13:05-!-jgowdy is "jgd" on #debian
13:07-!-bentham is "Jeremy Bentham" on #oftc
13:07-!-bentham [~bentham@8VQAAAI9P.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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13:09-!-Gurty is "Ta" on #kernelnewbies #msys2
13:09-!-Gurty [~princess@4JHAAAGMM.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:10-!-Ericson2314[m] [~ericson23@2001:470:1af1:101::41a0] has joined #debian
13:10-!-Ericson2314[m] is "org.matrix:Ericson2314" on #debian #llvm #msys2
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13:11-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
13:11-!-TailsLinux [~tails@tailslinux.powered.by.lunarbnc.net] has joined #debian
13:11-!-TailsLinux is "Miles “Tails” Prower" on #debian #debian-next
13:15-!-RedEagle [~RedEagle@rdm.powered.by.lunarbnc.net] has joined #debian
13:15-!-RedEagle is "Eagle" on #debian #retroshare
13:15-!-flappy [~flappy@88-113-155-26.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
13:15-!-flappy is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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13:20-!-Talkless is "Talkless" on #debian-next #debian
13:21-!-craigevil [~craig@00012e49.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:21-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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13:25-!-Armin[m]2 is "at.g24:mir" on #debian
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13:25-!-craigevi1 is "craig" on #debian-next #debian
13:26-!-rinni[m] [~rinnimatr@2001:470:1af1:101::71c5] has joined #debian
13:26-!-rinni[m] is "org.matrix:rinni" on #debian #reproducible-build
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13:33-!-ludogre is "ludogre" on #msys2 #debian
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13:34-!-octoplex [~octoplex@190-2-131-167.hosted-by-worldstream.net] has joined #debian
13:34-!-octoplex is "octoplex" on #debian
13:38-!-yeetgirl [~yeetboi@2601:281:cd80:7b20:216:3eff:fea5:8f59] has joined #debian
13:38-!-yeetgirl is "yeetboi" on #debian
13:38-!-yeetgirl is now known as yeetboi
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13:39-!-craigevi1 [~craig@161.82.100.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:39-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
13:39-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
13:41-!-craigevil [~craig@00012e49.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:41-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
13:41-!-Q-Master [~q-master@2.94.96.192] has joined #debian
13:41-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next
13:43-!-valdyn [~valdyn@aftr-62-216-207-119.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #debian
13:43-!-valdyn is "Florian Attenberger" on #debian-next #debian
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13:43-!-useriuyiuf [~usersdf67@8VQAAAJDE.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:43-!-useriuyiuf is "user" on #debian
13:44-!-gerdon [~Gerdon@host-80-181-111-1.pool80181.interbusiness.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:44-!-syntax_ [~syntax@37.120.198.186] has joined #debian
13:44-!-syntax_ is "_syntax_" on #debian-academy #linux #debian
13:44-!-gerdon [~Gerdon@host-80-181-111-1.pool80181.interbusiness.it] has joined #debian
13:44-!-gerdon is "realname" on #debian
13:45-!-octoplex [~octoplex@190-2-131-167.hosted-by-worldstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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13:47-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
13:47-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian.or.at #debian-next #debian
13:48-!-valdyn_ [valdyn@c6a7cbec.vpn.njalla.net] has joined #debian
13:48-!-valdyn_ is "Florian Attenberger" on #debian-next #debian
13:49-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
13:49-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
13:49-!-RedSoxFan07 [~Thunderbi@d-159-250-218-50.ct.cpe.atlanticbb.net] has joined #debian
13:49-!-RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian
13:50-!-Q-Master [~q-master@2.94.96.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51-!-ganpa[m] [~ganpamatr@2001:470:1af1:101::7a53] has joined #debian
13:51-!-ganpa[m] is "org.matrix:ganpa" on #debian
13:51-!-valdyn [~valdyn@aftr-62-216-207-119.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51-!-valdyn_ is now known as valdyn
13:52-!-edeak [~edeak@25.14.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:53-!-arnoldoree [~arnoldore@113.211.133.71] has joined #debian
13:53-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #qemu #debian-meeting #debian-tech #debian
13:53-!-Q-Master [~q-master@2.94.96.192] has joined #debian
13:53-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next
13:57-!-useriuyiuf [~usersdf67@8VQAAAJDE.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: useriuyiuf]
13:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 720] by debhelper
13:58-!-useriuyiuf [~usersdf67@2KHAAAFVW.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:58-!-useriuyiuf is "user" on #debian @#irc:matrix.org #ceph #badgeteam
13:58-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:59-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b402e34.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
13:59-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
14:00-!-rojin[m^p] is "com.poddery:rojinroy" on #kernelnewbies #minidebconf-online #minidebconf-india-buzz #debian-india #minidebconf-india-rex
14:00-!-rojin[m^p] [~rojinroyp@2001:470:1af1:101::67f7] has joined #debian
14:01-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:9234:0:1d0f:dff7:8660:fe64] has joined #debian
14:01-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #packaging #debian #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-social #debian-meeting
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14:09<cacatoes>has someone had the chance to make LXC unprivileged containers (creation by a user) work in Buster? Seems I can create them as root (uid/gid are mapped correctly) but as a user creation fails with very little infos in the log.
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14:14<cacatoes>corresponding config: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/34c380e4/
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14:25<Archivist>how often do you get cussed out?
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14:26<petn-randall>Archivist: What is the context here?
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14:27<Archivist>i'd like to become a linux user
14:27<petn-randall>Good to hear! There's usually no cussing involved.
14:28<Archivist>maybe not, now that someone's actually speaking to me
14:28<Archivist>i've been staring at this command prompt and reading everything i can find trying to figure out what to do for the last 18 hours or so
14:29<petn-randall>Well, what do you want to do?
14:29<Fraggle2>Archivist: You have installed Debian 10?
14:29<Archivist>i just bought the best laptop i've ever had, and i'm trying to get debian on it fully functional
14:29<Archivist>yes
14:30<Archivist>i'm a newbie to linux but not computing
14:30<petn-randall>What make/model is it?
14:30<Archivist>asus fx705dt
14:30<Fraggle2>Can you login to the desktop environment?
14:30<Fraggle2>(assuming that you want this)
14:30<Archivist>no, i just get the text mode interface
14:31<Fraggle2>hmm, the installer should have asked you what DE you want to install
14:31<Archivist>i put 10.8 with non-free firmware on it. network card didnt install i guess, it cant download packages
14:31<Archivist>it asked me what i wanted to install, i left it on the default, debian interface
14:32<Fraggle2>a brand new laptop might be too old to be supported by debian 10
14:32<Archivist>i found a guide to all this, but i don't knwo enough to follow it
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14:32<Archivist>http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=146104
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14:33<Archivist>this guy did it, and tells us how, but he's very terse and i have zero skills here
14:33<Mister00X>oh no an rtl8821ce
14:33<Fraggle2>I would give 11 (bullseye) a try, it is soon to be officially released and already ver usable
14:34<Archivist>dvd 1?
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14:34<Archivist>i know ive tried dvd 2 a couple times, since that's what the guy in that thread initially used (though i think he ended up putting stable with backports on it... which i have no idea how to do)
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14:35<Archivist>there are so many releases and thge names are so similar my brain has gone cross-eyed
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14:35<Fraggle2>not at all, if you do not have a network connection
14:36<Fraggle2>as a workaround, you could use usb tethering from your mobile phone to get online
14:36<Fraggle2>simply connect the cable and enable tethering on the mobile
14:36<Archivist>i dont even know how to mount a usb drive
14:37<Fraggle2>you do not have to
14:37<Archivist>i get that
14:37<Mister00X>Archivist: it should be plug and play
14:37<Archivist>lol
14:37<Archivist>sure, sure... linux, plug and play
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14:38<Archivist>i don't have network card, i don't have GUI
14:38<Archivist>i mean, the network card drivers aren't installed
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14:39<Mister00X>Archivist: and this special card can be especially tricky depending on the revision of it
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14:39<Archivist>well, i'm not surprised. it is ME we're dealing with. whatever laptop i bought just HAD to be one of the hardest to get the OS I want onto :/
14:39<theta3>the drivers are normally included in the kernel, unless you have a proprietary network card and/or proprietary firmware
14:39<petn-randall>Archivist: My guess is that it works with a newer kernel or firmware. But bootstrapping that machine from buster without working networking might be difficult.
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14:41<Archivist>i can still put windows 7 on any machine. i code my own automated custom installs. i know the names of internal components few ever will. do you knwo what it's like to suddenly be a noob again?
14:41<Fraggle2>again: you can use usb tethering as a workaround to get online!
14:41<Archivist>not gonna, fraggle. thanks, tho.
14:41<Fraggle2>why?
14:41<Archivist>i don't use NSA surveillance monitors for anything i don't absolutely have to
14:42<Archivist>whatever info needs to get into this machine can go in through a usb port
14:42<Fraggle2>I think he is saying that he does not own an mobile phone
14:42<Archivist>or be downloaded from a debian server, if i can get the net card running
14:42<Fraggle2>which you wont with this kernel
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14:43<Fraggle2>last try: try bullseye (debian 11). but I think even it's kernel version has problems with 8821ce
14:43<petn-randall>Archivist: Since Debian 11 (bullseye) is in deep freeze now, I'd recommend you try that.
14:43<Archivist>you can't tell me it can't be done. obviously the thing can read from a usb drive or the system never would have gotten installed in the first place
14:44<theta3>Archivist: if you have new hardware, you can try a kernel from backports (I remember there used to be custom installation images with newer kernels from jpmuto), or even a bleeding edge distro like fedora, which is more likely to support your hardware
14:44<Fraggle2>I won'T tell you anything more. I do not like your tone.
14:44<Archivist>ok, bullseye. do you mean dvd 1, of the 3 offered?
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14:45<Archivist>so, back to my original question when i entered the channel... how often do you get cussed out?
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14:47<petn-randall>Archivist: You don't get cussed out, let's not drift off into off-topic discussions.
14:47<Archivist>i don't think the difficulty of becoming a linux user should ever be off-topic for the linux community :)
14:47<theta3>Archivist: i can tell you how to mount and umount a usb stick, if still interested
14:47<Archivist>that would be nice, theta3 :)
14:48<petn-randall>Archivist: If your overall goal is to install Debian on your machine, I recommend you use the non-free testing installer for that. It comes with the relevant firmware for your hardware.
14:48<petn-randall>Archivist: Other option is you plug in the Ethernet, that usually works without firmware. Then we can add buster-backports and install a newer kernel and firmware to get the other hardware running.
14:49<Archivist>would you be so kind (i know im probably asking a lot here) to give me a link to exactly which one you mean? to rule out my possibly choosing the wrong one out of ignorance?
14:49<petn-randall>!testing installer
14:49<dpkg>Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
14:50<Archivist>i could plug in ethernet, that would be poretty easy
14:50<petn-randall>Archivist: Let's do that instead, then.
14:50<Archivist>ok, give me a minute,,,
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14:51<mfrisch>Hi can't get my mic to work linphone chrome etc. It works audacity and simple record programs. Have search the Internet with no fix.
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14:51<mfrisch>same with my bluetooth mic
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14:52<theta3>Archivist: you can try the netinst image from here https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/
14:53<theta3>hopefully you can connect to the internet udring installation
14:53-!-miguemoya [~migue@212.85.238.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:53<theta3>(assuming you want stable, not testing)
14:54<Fraggle2>mfrisch: pulseaudio is running? play araound with pavucontrol
14:54<diogenes_oftc>mfrisch, checked chrome mic settings?
14:55<mfrisch>Done both of those suggestions cause online suggested that.
14:56<Archivist>ok, i've got the asus plugged into the ethernet. should i reinstall debian, and if so, which image?
14:56<mfrisch>It's weird cause other things work
14:56<petn-randall>Archivist: It should be enough to add buster-backports, install a new kernel, and new firmware, and reboot.
14:57<Archivist>nice :)
14:57<theta3>Archivist: as for mounting an USB stick,run "dmesg | tail" as root shortly after you insert the stick, it should display several lines of output, one of them containing something like "sdb: sdb1"
14:57<petn-randall>Archivist: Can you run `ping -c 3 8.8.8.8` on the shell to verify that the network is up and running?
14:58<Archivist>sure...
14:58<petn-randall>theta3: I think we should just add backports at this point, when the network works fine.
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14:58<theta3>sdb is the device, sdb1 is the first partition, the one you need. "mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt" should mount the partition under /mnt, so you can access the files from the stick, use "umount /mnt" when you're done
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14:58<Archivist>5ms :)
14:59<jmcnaught>mfrisch: have you tried using pavucontrol? It can show and control which source an application records from.
15:00<theta3>petn-randall: right. still no guarantee his graphics would work, but it's worth a try
15:00<Archivist>thetra3: thank you. very interesting...
15:01<petn-randall>theta3: the kernel in backports is the same as in testing, so I'd assume it works fine.
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15:01<mfrisch>jmcnaught: well just did again the input is set to my internal but it doesn't register anything on the display. audacity works fine.
15:01<petn-randall>!buster backports
15:01<dpkg>Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>.
15:01<petn-randall>Archivist: ^^^
15:01<Archivist>thank you :)
15:01<petn-randall>Archivist: Please enable buster backports like in the instructions above, and then we'll install a newer kernel/firmware.
15:01<Archivist>right on
15:02<theta3>petn-randall: i was thinking about stuff like mesa and wayland - sometimes you really need newer versions of those
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15:03<Archivist>i don't know where sources.list is or how to open it in an editor :/
15:04<petn-randall>Archivist: Log in as root; if you gave root a password during installation, you can do that with `su -`. If not, you can use `sudo -i`. Verify you're root afterwards by running `whoami`.
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15:06<Archivist>yeah i've done "su" a couple times. as soon as my screen stops scrolling. i tried 'find / sources.list' ^_^
15:06<Archivist>i am root
15:07<petn-randall>Archivist: Note that `su` and `su -` (note the dash) do different things.
15:07<petn-randall>The latter gives you a login shell as root, the former retains your old shell environment.
15:07<theta3>Archivist: it's in /etc/apt/sources.list
15:08<Archivist>i used su without dash and gave the password when prompted, then ran whoami. i am root. :)
15:08<Archivist>thanks again, theta3
15:08<theta3>you're welcome
15:08<petn-randall>Archivist: nano /etc/apt/sources.list should work, that's one of the more userfriendly editors.
15:08<Archivist>nano! thanks was trying to remember that
15:08<jmcnaught>Archivist: you were supposed to use the dash
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15:09<Sqrt{not}>!buster su
15:09<dpkg>In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
15:09<mfrisch>jmcnaught: mine has a little display meter to show its working or not it doesn't work either. but it records in audacity.
15:10<Archivist>should i leave the one entry it has, that starts with "deb cdrom:"? since i don't have an optical drive? or is that still needed?
15:10<grawity>I don't think that entry was ever needed in the last decade
15:10<theta3>Archivist: "su -" resets all environment variables, so you end up a lot closer to a normal root login shell than using just su.
15:10<Archivist>nice :)
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15:11<jmcnaught>I think "su -l" is less confusing for beginners and is only one extra character.
15:12<theta3>true
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15:13<Archivist>hmmm. sources.list also has lines "commented out by the installer because it failed to verify" -- should i un-comment those?
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15:18<theta3>Archivist: hard to say without seeing your file, maybe you can post a picture of your screen somewhere
15:19<theta3>but adding the two backports lines from the backports intructions at the end of your file should be ok
15:19<Archivist>i uncommented them. :)
15:19<Archivist>ran 'apt-get update'
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15:20<theta3>Archivist: you seem to be a smart guy - if this is your first contact with linux or a unix clone, not bad at all :)
15:20<Archivist>i've been a geek for many years, just had the misfortune to be put onto windows first
15:21<Archivist>i won't use 8 or 10 so i'm finally to the point where ui can't avoid linux any longer -- which i've only been doing because going from computing demi-god to total noob is painful
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15:22<blast007>Archivist: if you aren't sure what should be in the sources.list file, start with the contrib non-free example here: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList?action=show&redirect=sources.list#Example_sources.list (and also add the buster-backports lines)
15:22<petn-randall>Archivist: `apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 firmware-linux` should get you the newest packages.
15:22<blast007>(not that the deb-src lines are optional)
15:22<blast007>note*
15:22<Archivist>petn-randall: gotcha
15:23<Archivist>E: Unable to locate package firmware-linux
15:24<petn-randall>Archivist: Do you have "non-free" on all sections?
15:24<petn-randall>!non-free
15:24<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
15:24<petn-randall>!non-free sources
15:24<dpkg>Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
15:24<petn-randall>It should read "main contrib non-free" on all lines, since we also want to enable that for backports.
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15:26<Archivist>okay, hold on. the "two main debian mirror lines"? would these two lines have "buster-updates" in them?
15:27<Archivist>one starts with 'deb' and the other with 'deb-src'?
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15:28<theta3>Archivist: you can compare with the link posted by blast007 above, there's an example with non-free
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15:28<Archivist>okay
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15:29<blast007>you should end up with 4 deb lines
15:29<Archivist>question: there are 3 examples shown. are these either/or, or do i combine them?
15:30<Archivist>ah
15:30<theta3>the second example is complete, you can also replace your entire file with those lines, and and add the two lines in the following rectangle to get the backports
15:30<erle->Will Gnome 40 come to Sid soon or will it be delayed because of Bullseye freeze?
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15:30<Archivist>that would be eight lines. who should i be listening to here?
15:30<blast007>Archivist: the second and the third code blocks there (so the contrib-nonfree ones)
15:31<blast007>and like I said, the deb-src lines are optional
15:31<Archivist>ok
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15:37<Archivist>ha! thisd is cool. i haven't seen internet activity on a text-mode interface since i was 8 :o)
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15:40<theta3>there are still text-mode internet clients like lynx, mutt and weechat if you feel nostalgic :)
15:41<Sqrt{not}>(the internet is more than the www :P )
15:41<Archivist>if my prompt starts with "root", i don't need "sudo", right?
15:42<Archivist>Sqrt{not}: IKR? try to tell 'the kids these days' that. i spent a lot of time with rfc 1459, myself ;)
15:44<Archivist>back in a minute
15:45<theta3>i'd be happy if they knew what a browser or computer is - my 30 year old collegaues are mostly all about apps :)
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15:54<theta3>does debian have any concrete plans to move from .deb to container-based packages like flatpack or snap? the debian handbook mentions it in chapter 16, "future of debian" - i hope that's not the case
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15:54<sney>unlikely to happen any time soon
15:55<sney>and if it did happen, like anything in debian, it would be a gradual transition with support for both. you wouldn't have "ha ha no more binary debs for you" all of a sudden on upgrade.
15:56<Archivist>theta3: yeah, good ol' microsoft has kept users so ignorant they don't know where their computer ends and the internet begins. smartphones have made it worse, too.
15:56<Mister00X><sarcasm> Shared librarys are bad </sarcasm>
15:56<theta3>fedora already started going in that direction in F34, not just silverblue, ubuntu as well i think :(
15:56<sney>fedora and ubuntu are both way more willing to make radical changes
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15:59<theta3>the go, nodejs, python, ruby, java ecosystems make packagers' lives hard - i think it's a reaction to that (basically giving up on packaging so many modules)
15:59<Archivist>after i run `apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 firmware-linux`, should i reboot?
16:00<theta3>Archivist: yes, of course
16:00<Archivist>ok. just checking :)
16:00<sney>that, and it's a great option for 3rd party vendors that don't use dfsg licenses or don't care about integration, much better than a poorly implemented .deb or a chaotic evil proprietary installer
16:01<sney>flatpak et al make sure they are contained in a box where it's much harder to ruin someone's day
16:01<theta3>linux app store :(
16:01<dreamer>flatpak--
16:02*dreamer prefers appimage for rando binaries
16:02<Archivist>got 3 warnings, "possible missing firmware", all having to do with the network card, of course
16:02<Mister00X>well for stuff missing from the repos flatpak et al are good but for like core stuff
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16:03<Archivist>oh my goodness... i have a GUI :)
16:03*Archivist laughs a portentous laugh
16:03<theta3>yes, and software like chromium, vendoing all dependencies and patching them, is a pain to package - securoty updates come weeks or months later, even in debian or fedora, with dedicated security teams
16:04<theta3>Archivist: great, congratulations :)
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16:05<Archivist>thank you guys so much for the help :o)
16:05<Archivist>lots easier to learn this way, not having to struggle with learning the text-mode tools to do the learning with at the same time
16:06<theta3>you're welcome
16:06<Mister00X>Archivist: you might want to check if you got wifi now
16:06<theta3>Archivist: you chose the hard way, you could have installed Debian in a VM on Windows, a lot easier that way :)
16:07<Archivist>i would have never used it
16:08<Archivist>impatience :)
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16:08<Archivist>so what's the linux equivalent of "device manager"? where can i see which of my hardware got drivers installed and which didn't?
16:09<Mister00X>Archivist: drivers are in the kernel so....
16:09<sney>,i isenkram
16:09<judd>Package isenkram (misc, optional) in buster/amd64: Suggest packages to install when inserting new hardware (GUI popup). Version: 0.41; Size: 16.3k; Installed: 55k
16:10<Archivist>is there no corollary utility? nothing that shows me which of my devices got drivers successfully installed and which didn't?
16:11<Mister00X>well isenkram was just mentioned
16:11<theta3>Archivist: most drivers are part of the kernel, not installed separately like on Windows. If your hardware works, that's it
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16:11<Archivist>oh. that sounded like it was specific to external devices
16:12<Archivist>ah, i see
16:12<sney>the windows attitude of "I need to install drivers" is wrong on linux most of the time. isenkram will tell you if you need a firmware package for your nic, but even that isn't really "drivers"
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16:13<Archivist>good to know
16:14<Archivist>very minimal visible interface here... should i be seeing some option to connect via wifi? or where is that?
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16:16<sney>which gui is it?
16:16<Archivist>should be the default debian one
16:16<Archivist>i didn't check any of the others when i installed
16:16<sney>ok, I think in gnome there is a network-manager thingy in the upper right corner.
16:17<Archivist>there was until i pulled the ethernet cable out
16:17<Archivist>i guess that means my wi-fi card isn't installed, eh?
16:17<sney>or n-m is ignoring it for some other reason
16:17<sney>in a terminal, how many entries do you see if you run 'ip link', and do any of them begin with w?
16:18<Archivist>2
16:19<Archivist>and no
16:20<sney>ok, if this is a laptop, there may be a switch or a hotkey to enable wifi, sometimes it will end up disabled on boot
16:21<Archivist>just airplane mode, and it's off
16:21<sney>double-check with 'rfkill list' as root
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16:22<Mister00X>Archivist: you mentioned earlier this forum post and there they talked about a realtek card so maybe you are missing the firmware-realtek package
16:23<sney>ah, I thought they already installed the firmware
16:24<Archivist>bash: rfkill: command not found
16:24<Mister00X>sney: only firmware-linux I think and firmware-realtek is not a dep of that package
16:24<sney>Mister00X: ah, v sensible. ok.
16:25<sney>Archivist: as Mister00X suggests, try installing the firmware-realtek package, then reboot and see if wifi is visible
16:25<Archivist>so, 'apt install firmware-realtek'?
16:25<sney>y
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16:26<Archivist>firmware-realtek is already the newest version (20190114-2)
16:26<Mister00X>Archivist: you need to get it from backports
16:26<Archivist>ok
16:26<Mister00X>so apt install -t buster-backports firmware-realtek
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16:28<Archivist>yep, i knew how to form the command :o)
16:28<Archivist>crikey... a bunch of warnings about missing firmware for the gpu
16:29<Mister00X>Archivist: which gpu do you have?
16:29<Archivist>nvidia gtx 1650
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16:30<Archivist>should i install a "amdgpu" package from buster-backports?
16:30<Mister00X>Archivist: you just said you got nvidia
16:31<Archivist>it's got amd onboard and also an nvidia discrete
16:31<Archivist>so this isn't for the nvidia, got it :)
16:31<Archivist>(as in, *i* got it)
16:32<Mister00X>Archivist: well you can install firmware-amd-graphics
16:33<Archivist>how do i know which video card debian is currently using?
16:33<Mister00X>Archivist: but installing the proprietary nvidia drivers is a story on its own
16:33<sney>unless you're not using the amd gpu, in which case you can just ignore the warning
16:33<sney>which one is your display plugged into?
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16:33<Archivist>sney: it's a laptop, so... both??
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16:34<sney>amd and nvidia multiplexed? that's ... new. you are probably using the amd one then, as that's how it usually is with the intel version of this setup
16:35<Archivist>that's what i'd expect, too
16:36<Archivist>there's really no graphical interface for dealing with the hardware generally?
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16:36<Mister00X>Archivist: btw does your wifi work know?
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16:36<Archivist>let me check
16:37<Archivist>do i need to reboot after the updates first?
16:37<Mister00X>yes
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16:38<Archivist>yes it does! =)
16:38<Mister00X>Archivist: great
16:39-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:40<Mister00X>Archivist: so if you want/need the proprietary nvidia drivers you can have a look at
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16:40<Mister00X>!nvidia
16:40<dpkg>Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net.
16:40<Archivist>nice :) thanks, again :)
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16:41<Mister00X>Archivist: also I you intend to use steam on that machine you may need to enable multiarch first
16:41<Archivist>one more thing, maybe you know something about: am i going to need faustus?
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16:41<Archivist>steam i'm not worried about. i'm not really a gamer, it was just a laptop with good specs for the price :o)
16:42<Archivist>someone returned one and there was a new-in-open-box for $500 less than normal. i couldn't say no.
16:42<Mister00X>Archivist: I dont think you will need faustus. though you may want the multiarch for wine
16:43<Archivist>i'll remember that
16:44<Archivist>now i should be able to get the nvidia card going without help. i'll let you know shortly, lol
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17:25<Archivist>oh yeah, no problem :)
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17:40<drew>Hey guys. I am using Ubuntu 4.10.
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17:41<dvs>!lart drew
17:41*dpkg steals drew's mojo
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18:19<Ionic>Weird question, probably, but... what defines the order metadata is downloaded via apt-get update? It doesn't seem to be the order in the sources.list{,.d} files only, but rather, it seems that... it's sorted alphabetically?
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18:24<sarnold>the last time I looked into it, I thought it was based on the order in the files; I tried to put the slowest mirror first, to get its metadata requests started first, but then apt preferred that source for downloading, which was a bad ideas..
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18:26<Ionic>Yes, for downloading, the order of occurence in the sources.list{,.d} files matters
18:26<Ionic>But metadata fetching seems to be a different beast.
18:27<sarnold>there is an http debug option (perhaps an 'acquire' debug option?) but it prints so much stuff I don't think I've ever actually used it to solve a problem before :)
18:27<Ionic>A funfact I learned yesterday was that (apt) pinning only influences which VERSION is picked, but the actual download is influenced by repository orders
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18:28<Ionic>(Which is somewhat unexpected if you pin a local repository, but don't increment the version of packages there, thinking that they would be taken via pinning anyway)
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22:32-!-kiran is "kiran,,," on #debian
22:33-!-sidmo__ [~sidmo@p5b24e7f4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:33-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian
22:34-!-sevu [~sevu@dynamic-089-014-067-251.89.14.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
22:34-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
22:35-!-M4he [~mahe@p5b2f2005.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:35-!-M4he is "Mahe" on #debian
22:36-!-sidmo_ [~sidmo@00026de1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:40-!-mahe [~mahe@p4ffbbd7d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:40-!-M4he is now known as mahe
22:43-!-VideoToasteronmatrixorg[m] [~videocrit@2001:470:1af1:101::77ff] has joined #debian
22:43-!-VideoToasteronmatrixorg[m] is "org.matrix:videocritytoaster" on #debian
22:46-!-Brainium [~brainium@00028330.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:47-!-jstein [~jstein@xdsl-87-78-8-167.nc.de] has quit [Quit: quit]
22:52-!-secntech [~secntech@0002a124.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:52-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
22:53-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e003:810:b301:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
22:53-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
22:53-!-thiras [~thiras@24.133.81.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:54-!-waveclaw [~quassel@ip98-162-233-236.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #debian
22:54-!-waveclaw is "Jeremiah" on #ceph #debian #linux
22:57-!-dr_bot [~dr_bot@000294a2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:58-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:58-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
23:00-!-euclid[m] [~euclidean@2001:470:1af1:101::6e84] has joined #debian
23:00-!-euclid[m] is "org.matrix:euclidean" on #debian
23:04-!-Archivist [~diresu@216.245.238.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09-!-Strelnikov [~strelniko@4G4AAAJBZ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:09-!-Strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #dfri_se #debian #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-l10n #tor-mobile #tor-project #tor-south
23:10-!-nuc__ [~nuc@200116b82a094d01f2dcecf1fb783f5e.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #debian
23:10-!-nuc__ is "nuc" on #debian
23:17-!-nuc_ [~nuc@200116b82a5c5901fa111c6a4601d3c2.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:17-!-Roman3349 [~Thunderbi@host-89-203-169-159.ip.topnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:19-!-zem [~krikkit@00016a79.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:19-!-zem is "Marvin" on #debian #ceph #debian-next
23:21-!-sevu [~sevu@dynamic-089-014-067-251.89.14.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:23-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:24-!-Surfer2011_ [~quassel@83.135.219.139] has joined #debian
23:24-!-Surfer2011_ is "Surfer2011" on #debian
23:27-!-brlancer [~brlancer@108-222-48-24.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:29-!-sevu [~sevu@dynamic-077-011-247-152.77.11.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
23:29-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
23:29-!-dr_bot [~dr_bot@000294a2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:29-!-dr_bot is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
23:32-!-Surfer2011 [~quassel@87.123.120.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37-!-nu-c__ [~nuc@i59F7FE1D.versanet.de] has joined #debian
23:37-!-nu-c__ is "realname" on #debian
---Logclosed Wed Mar 24 00:00:32 2021