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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-05-10

---Logopened Mon May 10 00:00:37 2021
---Daychanged Mon May 10 2021
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00:26<sappheiros>I'm thinking to create a science reference manual on Github, and I would like to add it to the Synaptic Package Manager for easy Debian installation. I saw something in the documentation about this, but it was presuming a lot of background work. Before doing all that, could you tell me if rather than code particularly common calculations in Python it would be better if I use a different language (e.g. C++?)?
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00:28<somiaj>python is fairly core, so I don't think the langauge would matter much in that regard.
00:28<somiaj>as for getting a package in debian, check out
00:32<sappheiros>Could you confirm that the Get Screenshot does not work for med-physics in the Synaptic Package Manager?
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00:35<somiaj>I can't, I don't use synaptic, but just check the package on
00:35<sappheiros>i guess i'm starting to fall asleep. that was a pointless question. i just wasn't sure whether I should file a bug report after being unable to get the image to load.
00:35<somiaj> -- appears there are no screenshots available
00:36<sappheiros>thanks, i was trying to find it online and was just going through wondering about the relationship
00:36<somiaj>it isn't a bug, but you can submit a screenshot if you like
00:36<sappheiros>i thought bullseye was the current testing phase, so why didn't you look at some Debian10 page instead?
00:36<sappheiros>ah, neat
00:36<somiaj>actually, since it is a metapackage, a screenshot might not be that useful
00:37<somiaj>sappheiros: it doens't really matter what version I pick for the screenshot, I just randomally clicked one
00:37<sappheiros>Does "Other Packages Related to med-physics" show what packages are inside this "metapackage"?
00:38<somiaj>yes, that lists the dependecies
00:38<somiaj>note just switch to buster provided you want the extat version/depends for buster.
00:41<sappheiros>it looks like med-physics is just a group of other packages, which would explain that no screenshot is possible
00:41<somiaj>also screenshots are often uploaded by users, so it isn't uncommon for a package to not have one
00:41<somiaj>But yea, in this case it might not be clear what to take the screenshot of since it is a meta package
00:43<sappheiros>Thanks for clarifying.
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00:44<sappheiros>Would you be interested in sponsoring a medical physics reference manual and calculator?
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00:46<sappheiros>I suppose I should email the contact of
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00:56<sappheiros>the .deb for Visual Studio Code doesn't seem to install when I open it and click the 'Install Package' button :(
00:56<somiaj>Best to follow the standard procedure on to get a sponsor, but until you have a package ready no need to get ahead of yourself.
00:57<somiaj>we can't really support third party .debs here, though I manually install things with dpkg
00:57<somiaj>but it could be you are missing dependencies, or the package you downloaded doesn't have the right dependencies in buster
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00:59<sappheiros>i was just looking at man dpkg and wondering if the install failed because (if) I didn't open it with sudo
00:59<sappheiros>i just clicked download and open, basically
00:59<somiaj>Read the error messages to figure out why it failed.
00:59<somiaj>Yes, you do have to be root to install packages.
00:59<sappheiros>where? i did not see any error. the install gui closed, naively suggesting to me the install was successful
01:00<sappheiros>would be good to redesign this Install Package GUI thing that opens up to prompt the user to enter password for sudo, etc .... instead of just closing without doing anything ....
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01:02<sappheiros>hm, i'm thinking to try -- do you have any advice on Things I Shouldn't Do? someone on freenode suggested I shouldn't ever touch a default keys folder, for example. (I can't recall the location.)
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01:03<sappheiros>I mean in general when looking at people's tutorials for things
01:03<sappheiros>'best practices' ... I guess I'll search for that, too.
01:04<jm_>I just grabbed the code .deb and installed it using dpkg
01:04<sappheiros>I wonder if this would be explained by just reading the entire intro manual at
01:04<sappheiros>jm_ so I was overthinking it and should've just dpkg file.deb and be done with it?
01:04<sappheiros>*sudo dpkg
01:06<jm_>sappheiros: just use whichever method works best for you
01:15<sappheiros>N: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/home/main/Downloads/code_1.56.0-1620166262_amd64.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
01:15<sappheiros> <--- This is an error message indicating something failed, right?
01:16<sappheiros>I don't understand what I did wrong ... asking here because I think it's a matter of how I used debian, not something particular to this package
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01:30<jm_>sappheiros: it's a warning, not an error
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01:33<sappheiros>hm. ... Is it saying I can't run the resulting program without having root privileges? _apt referring to any standard non-root user?
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01:35<twb>Is there a thing that can look at json files without going maaaaaad?
01:35<twb>I guess I initially want something that can just expand/collapse deep nests of dicts, and IDEALLY also make it easy to compare e.g.
01:36<twb>.devices[].hardwareInfo.serialNumber side by side
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01:36<jm_>twb: I use jq
01:36<jm_>sappheiros: no, it's saying it's not using user _apt to download things
01:36<twb>(I'm looking at the output of'androidmanagement', 'v1').enterprises().devices().list()
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01:36<twb>jm_: jq is what I'm using now and it feels a bit clunky
01:37<twb>jm_: like the difference between using "git blame" directly and using tig
01:37<sappheiros>jm_ thank you for clarifying, but i don't understand why it told me that in that case
01:37<twb>I don't REALLY know what I want, just that I don't know what I"m doing and I'm not doing it well :-(
01:37<sappheiros>literally the story of my life twb
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01:38<jm_>twb: ohh, not aware of anything easier then
01:38<twb>sappheiros: perhaps: "to vanquish your enemies and drive them before you, to hear the lamentation of their women"
01:38<twb>jm_: harrumph
01:39*sappheiros notes twb isn't in #debian-offtopic
01:39<sappheiros>twb, well, that's quite a contrast to Solomon praying for wisdom >__>
01:39<jm_>sappheiros: well probably because stuff in /home/main is owned by user main, so _apt can't create files there?
01:39<sappheiros>jm_ but why would it be trying _apt when main was the user who executed the install command?
01:41<jm_>sappheiros: that's a question best directed towards whoever implemented this feature :)
01:41<twb>sappheiros: apt drops privileges when it can
01:42<twb>sappheiros: _apt is the user it drops to
01:42<sappheiros>that's kind of it
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01:42<sappheiros>that means it tries to install it locally rather than universally on the PC, right?
01:42<twb>This is mainly meant for when apt runs as pid1
01:42<sappheiros>e.g. if you have more than one user account
01:42<twb>*as user 0
01:42<sappheiros>did you say what i just said? or do you mean something else by that?
01:42<twb>Sorry, talking across each other
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01:43<twb>sappheiros: apt(8) normally runs as root to install things system-wide; when it does so, it runs e.g. its HTTP client as an unprivileged user, to reduce the attack surface
01:43<sappheiros>oh, cool. thanks for clarifying
01:43<twb>It shouldn't need or try to drop privs for things like "apt search"
01:44*sappheiros checks man apt and nods
01:44*sappheiros rushes off to bed to chase after unconsciousness
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01:47<twb>jm_: hrm, is there something like csv -> sqlite, but for json -> an object database (e.g. lmdb)?
01:47<twb>I can't even picture how that would look
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01:51<jm_>twb: never heard of LMDB, but I read man page for mdb_load and it says it can use simple text files with lines in pair, other than that probably with a language that makes it easy to create objects from json and has ldbm module (i.e. python or perl)
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01:53<twb>jm_: LMDB is the key/value store (libdb replacement) used by openldap
01:54<twb>You can interact with it directly but it's not fun or useful to do so
01:54<twb>and going all the way up to slapd would be a pain becausde you'd have to write an actual LDAP schema
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02:06<hacker>keyi kan dao ma
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03:53<plk>how can i install intel microcode?
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03:54<Anarka>theres a interl-microcode package
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03:55<plk>The problem is, one is not available
03:56<jm_>!info intel-microcode
03:56<dpkg>intel-microcode: (Processor microcode firmware for Intel CPUs), section non-free/admin, is optional. Version: 3.20210216.1 (sid), Packaged size: 2842 kB, Installed size: 3685 kB
03:56<jm_>do you have non-free in sources?
03:56<Anarka>probably non-free ?
03:56<Anarka>oops :)
03:56<plk>yeah, non-free, didn't enable when installing Deb
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03:58<plk>how do I enable non-free packages?
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03:59<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
03:59<rudi_s>!non-free sources
03:59<dpkg>Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
03:59<rudi_s>plk: ^
04:01<plk>can i add only security section?
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04:04<rudi_s>plk: You should always add it to all relevant sections, so at least the regular repository and security updates.
04:05<plk>rudi_s: is this a correct solution?
04:07<rudi_s>plk: Yes, sounds good. Basically it's just "add contrib non-free" to every "main" you find in apt/sources.list
04:07<jm_>plk: I hope you don't use stretch
04:10<plk>i use buster
04:10<jm_>right so don't just copy and paste that one
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04:14<plk>btw, what is contrib?
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07:27<sunyibo>I have a headless debian server, on which I'm running git-annex. Git-annex frequently asks me for the ssh passphrase. I would like to store that for every time I log into a session. How do I do that?
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07:31<jm_>use ssh-agent?
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07:36<sunyibo>yes, but I have to start that manually for every login session. I would like to do it once and done
07:37<jm_>put it in shell startup files?
07:38<sunyibo>how do I do that?
07:38<jm_>or a user systemd session?
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07:41<jm_>for the former, you use «eval $(ssh-agent -s)»
07:41<jm_>for systemd
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08:38<sappheiros>How do I show the keyboard layouts in the bottom right? They were showing, then I installed ibus-anthy, then uninstalled it, and now it is gone
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08:42<sappheiros>I restored that icon by removing the Japanese keyboard.
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08:58<sappheiros>any advice on typing in Japanese (hiragana, kanji)?
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10:12<sunyibo>I'm following this , but I'm getting this . How can I solve this?
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10:57<sonce>im stuck with new install can someone please help me ?
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10:59<somiaj>You will need to provide more information, start out with what version of debian you are installing, what install medium you are using, and how you coppied the install medium to a usb, and then include what problem you have.
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11:01<sonce>buster, i get stuck with CLI but can manulay run startx (with crappy resolution)
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11:01<somiaj>so you have actually installed debian, but your problem is in running xorg?
11:01<sonce>asus prime z590m-plus, i7 10700, no dedicated graphic card
11:02<somiaj>Do you know what video card is in that laptop?
11:02<sney>!i915 firmware
11:02<dpkg>Some Intel UHD GPUs made after 2015 require firmware from userspace for all features to be enabled. This includes Skylake, Kabylake, Broxton, Cannonlake and possibly others. Ask me about <non-free sources> and install firmware-misc-nonfree to provide.
11:02<sonce>none , it has to use the i7 one
11:02<somiaj>all laptops have some video card, knowing the chipset is useful.
11:03<somiaj>Note, it is using some intel based video card, as sney pointed out, you will most likely need some non-free firmware to get acceleration with that card.
11:03<sonce>its a desktop and Z590
11:04<sonce>lga 1200
11:04<somiaj>Ahh, well either way, what matters is the actual chipsets being used, not the brand of the laptop/desktop. In this case the integrated intel gpus do require non-free firmware. Also depending on how new it is, a backported kernel/firmware may help too.
11:04<sney>10th gen intel may need a bpo kernel too
11:05<sney>according to ark it is an UHD 630
11:05<sonce>tried bpo, ended up dead, reinstalled , now stuck with manually running startx
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11:05<sonce>and unable to set resolution etc
11:05<sney>"ended up dead" is not remotely useful information, anyway, try installing the kernel package from non-free mentioned by dpkg above ^^
11:06<sney>sorry, the firmware package
11:07<sonce>just apt-get install firmware-misc-nonfree ?
11:07<sney>once you have non-free enabled, yes
11:07<somiaj>depending on if you selected enable non-free in the installer or not, you may have to manually enable it in sources.list
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11:08<sonce>is said 1 newly installed
11:09<sonce>reboot and pray ?
11:10<sney>yes, reboot to load the firmware.
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11:11<sonce>no change
11:12<somiaj>as stated, you may need a backported kernel/firmawre for that newer hardware.
11:12<sney>then you will need to upgrade that package and the kernel to the ones from buster-backports.
11:13<sney>not really surprising since the buster kernel is from 2019 and that cpu is from 2020
11:13<sonce>so no other option ? no init file to edit that might help ?
11:13<sney>no, it is a video driver issue, not something that can be configured
11:15<sonce>ok, thanks for now
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11:42<dez98dv_>hi, i have a problem and i can't understand why it doesn't work
11:42<dez98dv_>I installed debian on usb key (ext4 + extended partition and swap)
11:43<dez98dv_>and I tried by the disk manager to make a backup of each partition and to recreate the mbr and the formats of the original key and to restore the partitions on the 2nd key
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11:45<dez98dv_>problem when I start on the key, it is recognized in the boot, I entered and nothing happens
11:46<dez98dv_>there's the white bar flashing and nothing is launched
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11:46<dez98dv_>Anyone have any idea where it might come from?
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11:56<Linux-Fan>If its a BIOS machine you will need to copy the MBR. Either by cloning the first bytes from the one drive to the other or by re-installing the bootloader with grub-install /dev/sdY
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11:59<dez98dv_>how can i copy the mbr? there is no this option in gnome disk I believe
11:59<dez98dv_>and i have to do it with uefi and gpt?
12:00<Linux-Fan>No, for UEFI+GPT this is not relevant. There, you will need to make sure that both of your drives have a proper ESP but MBR is not needed.
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12:02<dez98dv_>I have to apply this procedure for all linux distribution?
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12:02<dez98dv_>I have to apply this procedure for all linux distribution?
12:02<Linux-Fan>Well, if you installed multiple distributions to the single USB drive there is no need to repeat copying the MBR for all distros as there is only a single MBR per drive.
12:03<dez98dv_>what is esp?
12:03<Linux-Fan>Efi System Partition.
12:04<Linux-Fan>Its the partition that contains the bootloader programs for UEFI booting.
12:05<dez98dv_>no my question is: Do I have to apply this procedure on all distributions? debian? ubuntu? fedora? ....
12:05<Linux-Fan>If the procedure is generic for any OS? Yes, as long as it boots the same way. (Not sure if I got the question correctly)?
12:06<dez98dv_>beh for uefi I do the same in fact: I make images of all the partitions and therefore of the efi partition that I restore on the new usb key
12:06<Linux-Fan>Yes and with UEFI it "should just work" afterwards, no need to mangle the MBR or anything :)
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12:06<dez98dv_>yes that was my question
12:07<Linux-Fan>So you got the blinking cursor on an UEFI system after sucessfully replicating all the partitions?
12:08<dez98dv_>long live uefi lol then. because i will have to modify the mbr on windows workstations, you know if the dd command works on windows?
12:09<Linux-Fan>I have seen `dd` tools for Windows but they did not work for all the cases I would have expected... If you want to copy a Windows MBR using Linux' `dd`, I'd expect that to work just fine.
12:10<dez98dv_>no it's on legacy so mbr
12:11<Linux-Fan>That explains why it would'nt boot initially, yes.
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12:17<dez98dv_>Do I have to change the mbr on the saved image or once the backup has been put back on the new key?
12:17<dez98dv_>Linux-Fan, Do I have to change the mbr on the saved image or once the backup has been put back on the new key?
12:18<Linux-Fan>I do not think it matters. Only be careful when copying the MBR about that this requires all partitions to exactly match (to the byte) in sizes and locations.
12:20<dez98dv_>but that's just impossible to have the partitions put in the same place at the ready byte
12:21<Linux-Fan>Then follow the variant explained at the nixcraft site and treat partitions and bootloader separately. In case the target's OS partition starts at a different location it might make more sense to do the `grub-install` rather than copying the MBR because even if you manage to only copy the MBR, it will possibly not point to the correct location to load the OS from?
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12:22<Linux-Fan>I have only ever done it in simple cases :)
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12:24<dez98dv_>if i restore partitions with gnome disk, it will reset partitions to byte ready?
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12:25<Linux-Fan>I don't know. But you can tell from the output of the commandline partitioning tools like `sfdisk -d /dev/sdY`. That is in fact what the Nixcraft site suggests to copy the partition layout :)
12:27<dez98dv_>will it also copy the ext4 partition scheme?
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12:29<Linux-Fan>What do you mean by ext4 partition scheme? ext4 is a file system and that will not be copied by copying the MBR or partition table. It is not an issue if afterwards you are filling the partition like with `dd if=/dev/sdY of=/dev/sdZ` because then, all the filesystem information will be copied as necessary, too.
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12:33<dez98dv_>I start with a 256gb key which must be copied to a 16gb one? will I be able to use this command? I spoke about ext4 because on my key I have two partitions that I made a backup: ext4 and swap on extended partition
12:35<Linux-Fan>In your case, I'd really suggest to copy on the file level rather than block device level as the sizes do not match. The only step needed after copying the files to the target volume is to re-install the bootloader.
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12:41<somiaj>and if using uefi, that can be done from the firmware if you copy the efi partition as well.
12:41<dez98dv_>if I make a full backup of an 8gb key and restore to a 16gb key? it's going to work? do I have any modifications to make? mbr and all? therefore what will happen to the 8gb remaining on the destination key?
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12:42<somiaj>dez98dv_: if you do a full block device copy the 8bg goes unused unless you grow the partition table and resize the file system, hence it might be easier to just copy the files vs the full partitiontable/filesystem.
12:43<somiaj>also having a new UUID can be useful (though can also change things if using UUIDs to identify the filesystem elsewhere)
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12:45<dez98dv_>I don't understand what you mean by simply copied? do I have to have the correct partition table? and what will it change?
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12:46<dez98dv_>beh precisely I do not know if it is obligatory to change the uuid and what does that change?
12:46<Linux-Fan>The most simple way to copy is to copy the whole block device /dev/sdY instead of the partitions /dev/sdY1, /dev/sdY2. CHanging the UUID is important if you ever attach both drives to the same computer.
12:46<somiaj>If you copy the full device (partition table and all, such as /dev/sdc) you copy the full partition table and file system. If your disk is different sizes you won't use the full size due to this.
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12:48<somiaj>I personally prefer to just backup the files, and not the partition table/file system, espically if the disks are different sizes, since I don't have to deal with resizing partition tables and file systems afterwards (though I may have to go change UUIDs)
12:48<somiaj>using something like rsync -a will perseve permissions, links, etc.
12:49<dez98dv_>so basically changing the uuid will not be necessary in my case
12:50<somiaj>The method you use depends on your end goals and so forth. But first it is useful to understand the differences. I personally don't like resizing partition tables/filesystems, but that is just me, most can be extended without to much risk.
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12:50<dez98dv_>ok so i won't use the full size but the remaining size can i create a new partition? fat32 or ntfs for example?
12:50<somiaj>You will still have to rebuild the partition table, but yes that is also an option.
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12:51<dez98dv_>somiaj, yes so you make a disk clone?
12:54<dez98dv_>me the problem is that I will make the backup on linux and the restoration on the key on windows and I do not know either the tools that I can use on windows to restore the copy of the disk (or the partition system + mbr modified)
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13:02<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Any chance of using a Linux VM on Windows. Otherwise prepare the image files exactly as you need them on Linux (with the resized partitions already) and apply from WIndows as needed.
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13:05<dez98dv_>I have the impression that in my simplest case and to make a complete backup of a key on linux that I will restore on another key on windows because there is nothing to change? neither mbr nor anything and no need to worry about the bytes and the partitions. I am wrong?
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13:08<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Sounds OK. Problems are only expected in case the target drive is smaller than the source drive, but apart from that, that scheme should be safe to go.
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13:13<dez98dv_>ittle question that strayed a bit from the channel, forgive me but this disk backup made on linux with what I can restore it on the target key on windows?
13:13<Linux-Fan>I am not exactly up to date on this, but I have read about Win32DiskImager being recommended.
13:13<somiaj>what od you mean by restore it on windows?
13:14<somiaj>yes, win32diskimager is a good way to raw write an image to a usb key
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13:15<dez98dv_>thank you very much friends, you are at the top
13:16<Linux-Fan>You're welcome :)
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13:25<sappheiros>reading multiple pages i'm a little flustered: am I good to right click > unmount and unplug a USB drive after copying data in Files appears to have finished?
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13:29<somiaj>sappheiros: yes unmounting will sync the copy and allow you to unplug. If you want you can additonally manually run 'sync' from a terminal to force the filesystem to sync with the cache.
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13:37<sappheiros>somiaj, is that final 'sync' just to give oneself peace of mind, reassurance, if one doubts the OS?
13:37<sney>sometimes I'll do it twice
13:38<sappheiros>it's okay to 'sync' _after_ unmounting? i thought the device had to be mounted to be written to
13:38<sappheiros>so since i've already unmounted, it's too late for a second check and i might as well unplug it, yeah?
13:39<sney>sync never harms anything.
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13:45<dez98dv_>I don't have an 8gb usb key and the disk to be cloned must not be larger than 8gb. can I make an alternative with a vm on kvm or virtualbox? for after making an image that I can clone on a usb key of 8gb or higher?
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13:49<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: You can install to a virtual HDD of 8 GB and later copy that to the stick. The thing to watch out for is that the virtual HDD will most likely be in some hypervisor-specific format. You need to use appropriate tools or convert that image first before restoring it onto the usb key.
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13:51<dez98dv_>qemu-img convert {image_name}.qcow2 {image_name}.raw ???
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13:53<dez98dv_>ok so let's say I'm starting with an 8gb virtual disk, I'm going to lighten my distribution and for example it will take only 6gb. Can I shrink the disk afterwards to do a raw conversion afterwards? under kvm or virtualbox
13:56<Linux-Fan>I think its possible, but might be litte complicated depending on the virtualization software. I have not done it for KVM or Virtualbox in recent times...
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13:58<GyrosGeier>if the virtual disk is thin provisioned and the VM believes it to be an SSD, you can run fstrim
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13:59<GyrosGeier>basically, the OS inside the VM says "discard these unused sectors", and the outside uses fallocate(..., FALLOC_FL_PUNCH_HOLE, ...) to tell the file system that the block can be dropped
14:00<GyrosGeier>which allows deallocating it
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14:00<GyrosGeier>or, if you are using qcow2 instead of a flat file, it is marked as removed in the qcow2 file
14:02<GyrosGeier>not sure when it is freed then though
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14:09<dez98dv_>I have an image in .img format to do a test but as we do to restore it on a usb key on linux, I thought we could do it by gnome disk?
14:10<GyrosGeier>.img is uncompressed
14:10<GyrosGeier>"raw" format
14:10<GyrosGeier>that can have holes in it if the file system supports it
14:10<GyrosGeier>(ext* does, fat does not)
14:10<GyrosGeier>and copying the file around usually fills up the holes
14:11<GyrosGeier>dd and rsync can recreate holes by skipping ahead on the output file when the input is all zeros
14:12<GyrosGeier>but for that to work, the data has to be all zeros, and that is where fstrim inside the VM comes in
14:12<GyrosGeier>the other thing you can do is actually shrink the image, but that requires shrinking the file system
14:12<dez98dv_>So what does that mean that it is better to have raw than img?
14:12<GyrosGeier>which is nontrivial for the root fs
14:13<GyrosGeier>.img is the extension typically used for "raw" files
14:13<GyrosGeier>these contain just the data
14:13<GyrosGeier>there are also .qcow2 files in "qcow2" format, those contain a list of data blocks not in consecutive order
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14:13<GyrosGeier>instead, it writes them in the order they are used, and overwrites old ones
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14:14<GyrosGeier>so the file only uses the space for the blocks that have been written to, but the downside is that reading a block requires finding out where it is in the file and going there first
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14:15<GyrosGeier>so it's slower
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14:15<GyrosGeier>gnome-disk might be able to resize raw image
14:16<GyrosGeier>after all, it contains a partition table and several file systems in exactly the same layout as a normal
14:16<dez98dv_>in fact i have a vm virtualbox (.vdi) and i would like to test put it on usb key so i started with the command "qemu-img convert -f vdi -O raw image.vdi image.img". Maybe it's better if I convert to "RAW"? and how to put this image afterwards on usb key from linux?
14:17<GyrosGeier>you have converted it to raw format
14:17<GyrosGeier>that's what -O raw does
14:18<GyrosGeier>if you want it as an USB key, you can copy it with dd to the USB key's device node
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14:18<GyrosGeier>the same way you'd create a bootable USB stick for installing
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14:18<dez98dv_>sorry GyrosGeier bug
14:18<GyrosGeier>20:18 < GyrosGeier> if you want it as an USB key, you can copy it with dd to the USB key's device node
14:18<GyrosGeier>20:18 < GyrosGeier> the same way you'd create a bootable USB stick for installing
14:19<dez98dv_>i have see just you message "you have converted it to raw format"
14:19<GyrosGeier>20:17 < GyrosGeier> that's what -O raw does
14:19<GyrosGeier>that format is exactly the disk contents, nothing else
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14:19<GyrosGeier>so when you dd that to a stick, you can boot a physical machine from it
14:20<GyrosGeier>(well, if the installation expects to be booted from a stick)
14:20<GyrosGeier>the delay while sticks are detected usually means you need special tricks
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14:22<dez98dv_>ok so if i put this .img image it will boot with my usb key?
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14:22<GyrosGeier>as said, it will most likely fail to boot
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14:23<GyrosGeier>not because of a format problem, but because USB sticks take longer to appear during boot than the kernel waits for them
14:24<dez98dv_>What for? because it's not in raw? in fact does it affect my converting a .vdi to .img or .raw? which one to favor?
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14:24<GyrosGeier>no, it's a USB problem, not a format problem
14:25<GyrosGeier>the extension doesn't matter
14:25<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: I suggest you to just try it out before checking on the rootdelay thing. For the two or three times I booted USB installation, I never needed to change that.
14:25<GyrosGeier>the only thing that counts is the -O option during convert
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14:29<dez98dv_>ok and from linux what is the command to restore the image on the key? there is graphics software?
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14:29<GyrosGeier>so wait, all you want to do is resize the partition contents and the partition table at the same time?
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14:30<Linux-Fan>The classic command is dd if=rawimagefile.raw of=/dev/sdZ with sdZ replaced by your drive.
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14:30<Linux-Fan>I prefer pv rawimagefile.raw > /dev/sdZ because this allows watching the progress with large transfers. For 8 GiB it will not show much because it will first cache everything and only write the data after pv progress has already reached 100% :)
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14:31*GyrosGeier gotta go
14:31<Linux-Fan>GyrosGeier: Good bye :)
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14:35<dez98dv_>without resizing anything, just restore the image on the key so that it is bootable?
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14:36<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: That seemed to be your plan and I'd expect it to work just like that, yes :)
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14:40<dez98dv_>thank you
14:40<dez98dv_>i try this a few later moment
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14:59<dez98dv_>"pv rawimagefile.raw > /dev/sdZ" not work
15:00<dez98dv_>my format file is .img
15:00<dez98dv_>i try pv ...... .img > /dev/sdz?
15:01<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: .raw and .img are just different extensions for the same data. None of these low-level tools care about it :), Yes, use pv with the .img
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15:02<Linux-Fan>Actually, when I sent that line, I had thought of writing `rawimagefile.img` to show that .img _is_ a "raw" image file but I ended up typing something different. Sorry for the confusion.
15:03<dez98dv_>how to see the usb key? for know the sdxxx?
15:03<dez98dv_>the command
15:03<Linux-Fan>Try `lsblk`
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15:04<Linux-Fan>and be sure to select the right drive. These tools will not ask before overwriting!
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15:11<dez98dv_>18% :)
15:12<Linux-Fan>If it hangs at 99 or 100%, don't worry. Writes are cached and may only be flushed at the very end. Just wait for teh command to finish.
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15:22<dez98dv_>on boot
15:23<dez98dv_>erreur grub core command
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15:23<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: What exactly does it say?
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15:26<dez98dv_>error: ../../grub-core/commands/search/.c:296:no such device
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15:28<Linux-Fan>Never seen that one :(
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15:30<Linux-Fan>Does it take any inputs after displaying the errors? If yes, you might try this: -- especially the part with `ls` and `set root=...`.
15:31<somiaj>sappheiros: yes, since unmounting will sync before unmounting (though it is useful if you write to the device /dev/sdX directly)
15:32<somiaj>sappheiros: note, your computer will naturally sync when it is idle, but manually syncing can just make sure all is good in the world with disk info and cache.
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15:35<dez98dv_>he problem is that it has to work every time because afterwards I will use it remotely from the copy of the disk and I would not have access to the startup
15:37<dez98dv_>everything must be ready upstream to not get this message at startup
15:37<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Yes, but in order for that to work one would first need to find out what went wrong in the first place?
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15:39<Linux-Fan>For instance, if you manage to enter the system interactively now, you might find out about the UUID of the disk as reported by the OS and as configured to boot from. The link I posted earlier suggests that the error stems from mismatching UUIDs. If the problem were known to be caused by exactly that, I'd double-check the image conversion for whether it has silently changed the UUIDs? E.g.
15:39<Linux-Fan>you could check this thesis by trying to run the VM off the converted `.img` file.
15:40<Linux-Fan>Once you know what the problem is, you can look into fixing it at the root such that you get a working drive right away.
15:40<dez98dv_>the problem is that I no longer have the message but I believe that it was indeed talking about uuid, afterwards I arrive on a black screen which says that the root account is blocked and that I am in emergency mode
15:41<Linux-Fan>daz98dv_: This is progress :) The emergency mode is either caused by the delay for recognizing the drive as GyrosGeier mentioned before or -- and that would be _my_ idea: It is just because the kernel is also looking for the wrong UUID.
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15:43<Linux-Fan>If you still have the emergency console, try command `blkid`. If it is available, it will tell you the UUIDs of all disks recognized. Identify the USB drive and take note of the UUID. If you have the VM on another computer, run `blkid` there, too. If the UUIDs mismatch, we have found the issue.
15:44<Linux-Fan>Btw. wrt. root account locked: Does it allow you to enter any commands or does it just tell locked with no means to input anything?
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15:52<dez98dv_>"Impossible d'ouvrir l'acces a la console, le compte root est verrouillé."
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15:52<dez98dv_>Press enter to continue
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15:52<dez98dv_>reloading system manager configuration
15:52<dez98dv_>starting default target
15:52<dez98dv_>you are in emergency mode................
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15:53<Linux-Fan>Ah, bad :(
15:53<dez98dv_>no acces root locked
15:53<dez98dv_>Bonjour :)
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15:55<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: This means you will not get into the system due to missing root access. I think options are as follows: (a) Reboot and from grub append init=/bin/bash to get to a shell right away or (b, my preference): Shutdown the system running on USB (_short_ press on power button might work) and re-attach it to your linux host. Then identify the UUID from there with `blkid`.
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15:55<dez98dv_>it's possible to copy the uuid with the command line?
15:56<Linux-Fan>Then do another `blkid` from inside the VM and compre. What do you mean by Copy the UUID? You can select it with the mouse and paste it with middle mouse button if that is the question?
15:57<dez98dv_>ok I plug in the key
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15:59<Linux-Fan>Yes, what output do you get for the blkid's?
15:59<Linux-Fan>More specifically: Is the UUID inside the VM and reported outside the VM identical?
15:59<dez98dv_>I don't understand irc not take my messages
16:00<Linux-Fan>Maybe too long, use if you have long command outputs
16:00<dez98dv_>for terminal host
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16:01<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: So /dev/sda is your USB drive? Now what does it say inside the VM?
16:02<dez98dv_>i will try now in the virtual machine
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16:05<dez98dv_>that is the vm
16:07<Linux-Fan>Good, the thesie about changed UUID seems to be right. Can you shtudown the VM and boot it of the .img file that resulted from the conversion?
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16:08<Linux-Fan>Although there is another minor oddity: Your host system seems to recognize just one partition /dev/sda1, not the two shown inside the VM. Can you double-check that the USB drive is indeed /dev/sda (e.g. by lsblk)?
16:08<dez98dv_>on virtualbox?
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16:09<Linux-Fan>Rather on the host. The USB is not attached to the VM (or is it?)
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16:11<dez98dv_>Could not get the storage format of the medium '/home/*****/test.img' (VERR_NOT_SUPPORTED).
16:13<dez98dv_>no attached
16:13<Linux-Fan>Mmmh. Virtualbox does not seem to want the raw image file :( For now, why not try some other way: Go to a terminal on the _host_ system and run mount -o ro /dev/sda1 /mnt.
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16:15<dez98dv_>mount -o ro /dev/sda1/mnt
16:15<dez98dv_>mount: /dev/sda1/mnt: impossible à trouver dans /etc/fstab.
16:15<Linux-Fan>You need the space.This will try to mount your USB to directory /mnt such that we can inspect the file system there. Especially interesting would be the UUIDs from inside /mnt/etc/fstab. Do they match the ones we observed in the VM (e81e...)? If yes, this would support the hypothisis
16:16<Linux-Fan>that UUIDs have changed. The correct command is `mount -o ro /dev/sda1 /mnt` which means as much as "mount" the device sda1 read only to directory /mnt.
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16:18<dez98dv_>I had a first pastebin which corresponds to the "blkid" on the host + usb key connected and it is on this same station that I made the backup of the vm
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16:19<dez98dv_>mount -o ro /dev/sda1 /mnt
16:19<dez98dv_>mount: /mnt: mauvais type de système de fichiers, option erronée, superbloc erroné sur /dev/sda1, page de code ou programme auxiliaire manquant, ou autre erreur.
16:19<dez98dv_>it's french reponse program
16:20<sappheiros>What is meant by the following? "Do not install packages from random mixture of suites. It probably breaks the package consistency which requires deep system management knowledge, such as compiler ABI, library version, interpreter features, etc." --
16:20<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Never mind, that's a known error.
16:20<sney>sappheiros: it means don't mix debian and ubuntu, don't mix stable and unstable, etc.
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16:21<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: It tells you that the partition could not be mounted. I wonder why that is? You did not by any chance use `sda1` in the `pv` command earlier?
16:22<dez98dv_>pv /home/*****/test.img > /dev/sda
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16:23<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Let me try out something in a VM here...
16:23<sappheiros>sney, that seems consistent with the advice, "Do not mix standard Debian with other non-Debian archives such as Ubuntu" but does this also mean I should be wary of, say, adding the Ethereum repository?
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16:24<somiaj>sappheiros: what is ethereum? Basically you put the trust into someone else that they built a repo designed for your version of debian. If you aren't sure, you can also rebuild the packages and compile from source.
16:24<sney>sappheiros: you should be wary, sure. most of the time, 3rd party repos designed for debian stable will work, but it's not guaranteed, and there's always the possibility of dependency problems. just try to be smart about it.
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16:25<dez98dv_>ok if not there is no way to put the correct uuid instead if I assume that it was the vm that must be put?
16:25<sappheiros>I still feel that I am working with my eyes closed, as I know so little of what is going on with any given command -- I'm trying "info [command]" for every step of everything ... Having installed the info package (textinfo?), is 'man' redundant?
16:26<somiaj>sappheiros: some third party repos work just fine most the time when they build packages specificlly built for debian release being used.
16:26<dez98dv_>sappheiros, you are not good you are like me you do not understand anything lol
16:26<dez98dv_>lol :D
16:27<somiaj>sappheiros: different programs will only have man pages and other info pages, so I don't think you can get rid of man if also using info pages.
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16:27<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: What do you mean by `put` in relation to the VM? Something went wrong with transferring the .img to the USB. I'd expect it to be in the .img already but somehow one needs to confirm this before fixing? Alternatively, you could also try a different route by passing your USB into the VM and copying from inside using a live system. But I'd first try to find out if it was related to that copying
16:27<Linux-Fan>or not...
16:28<dez98dv_>put = write the uuid
16:28<dez98dv_>the good uiid
16:29<Linux-Fan>I do not have confidence in writing a different UUID if not even the file system can be mounted. The french error from before -- it indicates something "more" than mere UUID mismatch
16:30<sappheiros>How may I go about correcting typos, e.g. replacing 'week' with 'weak' at ?
16:30<dez98dv_>it's complicated what you're asking me .... but I'm almost sure it's not the right uuid. We could try to put the uuid directly so I do the test to see if it works?
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16:32<dez98dv_>Linux-Fan, Wouldn't that be because the host is a fedora? the vm is a debian
16:33<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: UUIDs are attached to the file systems. Hence Debian and Fedora should both correctly report the correct UUIDs.
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16:34<dez98dv_>Linux-Fan, yes but I'm talking about the mounting error?
16:34<somiaj>sappheiros: -- report a bug against the debian-reference bug, you can also provide a patch against the source.
16:34<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: I've found a hacky way of identifying the UUID of a file system even if it cannot be mounted: Its `head -c 2048 /dev/sda1 | xxd` on the host machine with the USB attached. On my test system, it prints out the UUID in an encoded way in the line labelled 00..460.
16:34<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Fedora should be able to mount a Debian ext4 just fine, I'd think.
16:34<dez98dv_>i have attached the img in gnome disk
16:34<dez98dv_>uuid: 43be2352-7692-4174-a1f6-ff705257f58f
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16:35<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: So you were able to verify that your .img file is indeed using the wrong UUID?
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16:36<dez98dv_>I had marked the pastebin above the vm
16:38<dez98dv_>it's vm uuid
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16:38<dez98dv_>and usb uuid:
16:39<dez98dv_>in gnome disk it's coherent
16:40<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Does it tell you that for the USB or for the .img? If for the .img, we know for sure that something changed from VM -> image. If from the USB, its just expected :)
16:41<dez98dv_>I didn't understand what you said. it would seem that the uuids are different
16:42<dez98dv_>i have found this:
16:42<dez98dv_>it's good?
16:42<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Yes, UUIDs between Host and VM differ. This is already clear, but I still try to figure out where in the chain that happened. Of course, there is probably no large harm in trying as you suggested earlier by just "overwriting" the UUID on the USB. It just feels odd that (1) the FS cannot be mounted on the host and (2) the number of partitions reported inside and outside is different.
16:42<sappheiros>somiaj, will my real name be posted publicly if I `reportbug`?
16:43<sney>that is up to you
16:43<sney>and what email you use, etc
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16:43<sney>some paranoid people use a dedicated email address just for filing bugs. it's fine, debian does not care
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16:45<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: If you just want to overwrite the UUID, you could try this: `tune2fs -U e81e92ea-47e1-4d04-a35a-2f18d162a5d1 /dev/sda1`. But be warned: I wouldn't recommend doing this unless I were sure it is just the wrong UUID (hence my idea to get a hexdump first).
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16:48<dez98dv_>at worst it's okay, I redo the "pv" command after if it doesn't work
16:48<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Yes. Again, check that it's the correct drive. If you mangle the UUID of the host, it will fail to boot just like the USB did!
16:49<dez98dv_>tune2fs -U e81e92ea-47e1-4d04-a35a-2f18d162a5d1 / dev / sda1
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16:49<dez98dv_>tune2fs 1.45.6 (20-Mar-2020)
16:49<dez98dv_>tune2fs: No such file or folder when trying to open / dev / sda1
16:49<dez98dv_>Cannot find a valid file system superblock.
16:50<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Too many spaces. Its `/dev/sda1` without any inner space characters.
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16:51<dez98dv_>tune2fs -U e81e92ea-47e1-4d04-a35a-2f18d162a5d1 /dev/sda1
16:51<dez98dv_>yes no space
16:51<dez98dv_>same error
16:51<dez98dv_>it's the copy paste the spaces
16:52<dez98dv_>sorry it's me i have mount the usb in vm
16:53<Linux-Fan>dez98dv_: Yes, it would be advantageous to umount it in the VM first.
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16:54<Linux-Fan>Because if you left it mounted in the VM while changing the UUID to the same value that is already used in the VM you would cause a violation of the important UUID property i.e. that they are "universally unique" :)
16:54<dez98dv_>the name has change
16:54<dez98dv_>its sdb
16:55<dez98dv_>sdb 8:16 1 57,8G 0 disk
16:55<dez98dv_>├─sdb1 8:17 1 1G 0 part
16:55<dez98dv_>└─sdb2 8:18 1 15G 0 part
16:55<Linux-Fan>Looks much better!
16:56<Linux-Fan>Can you now do the `blkid` again and also re-try the `mount -o ro /dev/sdb1 /mnt` followed by `cat /mnt/etc/fstab`?
16:56<dez98dv_>tune2fs -U e81e92ea-47e1-4d04-a35a-2f18d162a5d1 / dev / sdb
16:56<dez98dv_>tune2fs 1.45.6 (20-Mar-2020)
16:56<dez98dv_>tune2fs: Invalid magic number in superblock when trying to open / dev / sdb
16:56<dez98dv_>Found a dos partition table in / dev / sdb
16:57<Linux-Fan>You need to use `/dev/sdb1` if you want the tune2fs to succedd. But please lets first confirm that the remainder works i.e. the mount and the cat :)
16:57<dez98dv_>mount -o ro / dev / sdb1 / mnt
16:57<dez98dv_>mount: / mnt: Wrong filesystem type, wrong option, wrong superblock on / dev / sdb1, missing code page or helper, or other error.
16:57<Linux-Fan>So nothing changed in that regard :(
16:58<Linux-Fan>Might as well go on with the `tune2fs` although it would again not be unlikely to also bail out with a similar message if there is really something wrong with the file system...
16:58<dez98dv_>tune2fs -U e81e92ea-47e1-4d04-a35a-2f18d162a5d1 / dev / sdb1
16:58<dez98dv_>tune2fs 1.45.6 (20-Mar-2020)
16:58<dez98dv_>Log retrieval.
16:58<dez98dv_>tune2fs: The journal must have at least 1024 while recovering journal blocks.
16:58<dez98dv_>Please run e2fsck -fy -U.
16:58-!-dez98dv_ was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
16:58<Linux-Fan>Too many command outputs, I guess...
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17:01<dez98dv>kick ban by the fucking bot
17:02<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): or | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
17:02<sney>also, there was no ban, just a kick, you could rejoin.
17:02<dez98dv>dpkg, ok
17:02<dpkg>wish i knew, dez98dv
17:02<dez98dv>sney, ok
17:03<dez98dv>ça fait chier ces robot de merde
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17:03<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, i have ........... Please run e2fsck -fy -U.
17:04<Linux-Fan>Yes, I saw it. You can follow that command, but really something is out of order there and I do not exactly know what it is.
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17:05<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, would it be because i took snapshots of the vm and it is in saved condition? because I saved it like that
17:05<Linux-Fan>That could be a problem, yes.
17:05<Linux-Fan>But I would have expected it to have surfaced much earlier.
17:06<Linux-Fan>Because strictly speaking, "raw"/.img does not support snapshots at all. So the qemu-img convert needs to have done something about that
17:07<Linux-Fan>You can still try to pass the USB into the VM, run a live system there and then do something along the lines of `dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb` with `sda` the virtual HDD and `sdb` the USB passed into the VM.
17:07<dez98dv>he was afraid of me. 70 snapshot saved state lol it's ok
17:07<Linux-Fan>This would be indifferent of any snapshots.
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17:08<dez98dv>apparently he does not want to change the uuid because it is necessary first to make a check that made it to me also on gnome-disk
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17:10<Linux-Fan>Yes, as I said, you can try the check. Just be sure that the USB is not mounted at all this time.
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17:10<dez98dv>what is it to do? a copy of the running system?
17:10<Linux-Fan>The check will just try to repair the ext4.
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17:11<Linux-Fan>My suggestion with the live system in the VM would be an entirely different approach and it would need the live system exactly for not having the system running at the time it is being copied :)
17:12<dez98dv>How do I do the test? I know that chkdsk c: ...: p
17:13<Linux-Fan>e2fsck -fy -U /dev/sdb1
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17:13<Linux-Fan>As suggested by the tune2fs output from before.
17:13<sappheiros>'rm -rf /usr/local/go' won't hurt anything in /usr/local if the 'go' folder doesn't exist, right?
17:14<dez98dv>and can linux auto clone while running?
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17:15<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: I do not know what you mean by `auto`. It is possible to clone a running system, but it can cause some hard-to-track problems.
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17:16<dez98dv>I thought that's what you suggested to me
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17:18<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: No, but similar: As an alternative to pursuing the e2fsck and subsequent issues, I suggest you to: Run your VM but not the installed system but a _live_ system (i.e. an .iso file also attached to the VM) and from that system inside the VM copy from the virtual HDD device file to the USB device file to bypass all oddities from converting a .vdi with snapshots to .img.
17:18<sappheiros>I am concerned that the destination folder does not specify the subfolder to put the contents in: Is this command safe? It will not 'overwrite' the existing /usr/local folder potentially erasing its contents? `rm -rf /usr/local/go && tar -C /usr/local -xzf go.tar.gz`
17:19<dez98dv>Setting the UUID on this filesystem could take some time.
17:19<sappheiros>The 'z' appears to mean "filter through gzip", so then I should anticipate it will act like other unzipping Win/macOS things by creating a folder in the destination spot, right?
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17:20<sney>sappheiros: first, /usr/local is not used by the package manager, so it's unlikely that you'll break anything important. second, modern tar can detect the compression type used, so you only need 'tar xf' in any case. -C specifies the destination. read 'man tar' for the rest of your questions.
17:20<sappheiros>and -c = -C = --create "create a new archive" --> it will make a new folder?
17:21<sney>sappheiros: no, -c and -C are not equivalent, it's case sensitive.
17:21<sappheiros>sney, I have been reading 'info tar' as the man said to do ...
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17:21<dez98dv>I ran the command ... I don't know if it's good, I checked with gnome disk, it told me on some partitions that they needed to be repaired. But it always made me these errors when I tried backups ... and the fact that your command earlier was not passed it would not be because the usb key was mounted in gnome-disk?
17:22<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: I do not know anything about gnome-disk. But if it could have _also_ had some sort of mount on the disk it could explain some of the oddities.
17:23<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Whenever you are doing low-level operations like the `pv` or `dd` or `tune2fs` you need to ensure that none of the affected drives is mounted anywhere!
17:23<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Because, if you change something "under" the mounted file system, programs' assumptions are violated and data corruption can follow.
17:25<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: Tar archive exctraction does not ensure that a directory is created. Whether that happens depends on whether a directory is contained _within_ the tar archive (check with `tar -tf go.tar.gz`)
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17:26<sappheiros>thank you
17:27<dez98dv>okay, well it's true that it was a bit basard. but basically for summary: I do the "pv ......" and after I put the uuid on the key and it should be good? I am trying to test the key it starts pr instant no error but it seems to have trouble opening the session I have the logo of the bone but that's all it turns for a while and it's blocked
17:27*sappheiros notices Linux-Fan isn't in -offtopic for chat >_>
17:28<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Yes, but I still wonder why the UUID change would be necessary.
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17:29<dez98dv>for you when you do the command "pv" it shouldn't change the uuid?
17:29<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: There are tools for solving the problem of some archives _not_ having a directory within them, see package `atool` for instance. Wrt. -offtopic: I am very new to IRC (my third time?) and so far I have joined exactly one channel :)
17:29<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Yes. I suspect the UUID was changed in the .img already but we had a hard time confirming it :)
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17:31<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, system freeze... blocked
17:32<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, how do you know so much and not be on IRC ._. also i was just going to joke that i found it funny the -t option was for lisT
17:32<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Why?? Were the device names correct? If not, we have just made a small problem large :( :(
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17:33<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: From the mailing list of course :) I thought the `-t` was for test (as in: test if the .tar file can be read and by the way print out the file names).
17:33<sappheiros>unless i'm mistaken `info tar` says -t lists the file contents
17:34<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, no nono the usb key, i have try the usb key --> freeze
17:34<dez98dv>no error on boot, but i wait i wait un freeze
17:34<dez98dv>and freeze
17:35<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: OK, but how far does it get? Does it display anyhting graphical yet? Does it pass the GRUB or fail earlier?
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17:36<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, yes yes it passes the grub there is the logo of the spinning bone and paf it blocks
17:36<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Does ESC bring up the console messages?
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17:37<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: OK, has this machine ever booted a Debian stable before? I am asking because you said you were running Fedore and Debian usually has older kernel versions that can miss the drivers for new systems
17:37<sappheiros>ctrl+alt+T says it's a shortcut to launch terminal, but pressing these keys does not launch terminal. Any ideas?
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17:38<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: Where does it say CTRL-ALT-T? I thought it was CTRL-ALT-F1..F12 for the different virtual linux consoles. Other shortcuts depend on your desktop environment/window manager and configuration.
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17:39<dez98dv>yes yes I stayed 3 years on debian on this machine and fedora works on it too
17:39<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, Debian10 > menu > keyboard > Shortcuts > Launchers > Launch terminal
17:40<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, Keyboard bindings = Ctrl+Alt+T /n unassigned /n unassigned
17:40<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: You could still try the other options from the GRUB menu. Usually there is one with "safe graphics mode". If it is not the new drivers then it might be due to missing components in the initramfs.
17:40<dez98dv>I had it is the same blockage with lubuntu, xubuntu because I had tested this before, by recreating the partitions and by gnome disk saved and restored the images, it starts but it freezes or it starts but it is slow x100
17:40<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: I do not have that here :)
17:40<sappheiros>why not?
17:41<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: Not using "Debian Default Desktop Environment" here, but plain i3 window manager.
17:41<sappheiros>I may be using Cinnamon ...
17:41<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Ah interesting. Well that it runs slow is to be expected from USB.
17:42<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: That it freezes is strange. Do you have a SSH server installed on your original VM? If yes, you might check if the system running from USB can be reached from the network.
17:42<dez98dv>no ssh
17:42<Linux-Fan>Sappheiros: People seem to have had that problem before
17:43<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Anyhting useful in the GRUB menu? Let me check with my own VM...
17:44<dez98dv>in fact i installed for example xubuntu or lubuntu on one key and i recreated the partitions and everything on the other. on the first it works niquel, on the second either it trains x10000 or it freezes as with the method we did
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17:45<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Thats interesting and gives some hope that there is a way to get it running quickly.
17:45<dez98dv>I tested the 2 kernels of the grub it crashes and the rescue mode the thing it turns it turns but nothing
17:45<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Slowness in that case might not only be due to USB but also due to "misalignment": Due to the copying, the partitions might start at offsets that are slow to access for the hardware.
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17:46<sappheiros>thanks, Linux-Fan . interestingly, it decided to call the Alt key 'Super' when I set that shortcut manually for uxterm
17:46<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: Its less about the kernels, but about the "Advanced options for Debian" > "... (recovery mode)".
17:47<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: If it has a wheel that turns you can use ESC to view the console and see what it is waiting for.
17:47<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, yes but there is slowness and slowness since earlier he still has not opened the session ..
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17:47<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: I thought Super was usually the name for the Windows key and that ALT was called "Meta" :) Many different names for the same keys.
17:48<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, English Dvorak does not map 100% to this apple Magic (ooOOOooo) Keyboard. layout labels it Alt but the keyboard itself is command
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17:49<sappheiros>i.e. bottom left keys are control, option, command
17:49<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: If it is going slow and its not related to the general slowness of the USB drive then I believe it would be related to the alignment. This is where the "cloning" based journey ends, because it cannot easily be fixed using this method :(
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17:49<sappheiros>Show Keyboard Layout for English (Dvorak) says Control L, Super L, Meta L / Alt L -- and I see what you mean. I wonder if this is a glitch that I set it to Alt L but it put Super L ... or maybe i'm just tired ...
17:50<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: I have no experience with Dvorak :) But the lower row is labelled Ctrl-Windows-Alt here :)
17:50<dez98dv>there it ended up blocked, I made a mistake there in occuring it the img it was a fedora but I tested with debian lubuntu xubuntu etc ... ah beh it shows me the services there are ok there are some failures but it seems to start very very very slowly and with lots of errors
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17:51<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Of course it depends on what the errors are about and whether they had been there before but just hidden. Again, if its alignment-related it can only be fixed by creating new partitions (rather than copying the existing ones by means of `pv` or `dd`).
17:52<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, we just discovered what looks like a bug. Ctrl+Alt+T does not work. When I map uxterm to Ctrl L + Alt L + T, then it works, BUT it calls it Super instead of Alt L or Alt. How do we reportbug this? I don't know what package to identify.
17:52<dez98dv>that is to say that I make the partitions myself or that I make the command "pv" I would always have problem of alignment? However there is not this problem with tools like "redo backup" or "acronis true image" that I know
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17:53<Linux-Fan>sappheiros: I do not know which package that would be. Can you identify the package that provides the window with the wrong labels? If yes, that would be my start.
17:54<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: These are multiple questions, I try to answer them in order :)
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17:54<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: If you make the partitions yourself, they will be aligned correctly.
17:54<sappheiros>Linux-Fan, that was rather my question to you. I suppose I will add it to my 'to do list', but that timeline seems a year from now.
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17:55<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: If you copy them by `pv` this _can_ result in misalignment. I have never had misalignment problems that I noticed although I did similar things to your cloning, hence it need not always appear :)
17:55<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, I don't mind doing the partitions myself, at worst I can retest with a whole new system to redo the partitions. maybe this time when i put the new uuid it won't mess? So you confirm to me that if I create the partitions myself I will not have the alignment problem? but you told me that the partitions had to be identical byte by byte, right? and in addition I will have the problem of mbr to modify in addition?
17:56<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: The backup image programs may not have this problem because they work partition-wise.
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17:56<dez98dv>i have: "failed to start firewalld...."
17:56<dez98dv>failed to start system security services daemon....
17:57<dez98dv>failed to start virtualization daemon
17:57<dez98dv>and more
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17:57<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: The problem with the partitions and alignment is this: If you want to copy the data device-wise everything has to be exact the same size and location => this can cause misalignment.
17:58<dez98dv>yes but these programs do the same thing as me which will recreate the partitions on gnome utility? no?
17:58<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: The alternative is to create the partition yourself and then they will automatically be aligned correctly, but:
17:59<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: then you cannot supply the data as a 1:1 copy (`pv`/`dd`) but instead need to copy the individual files.
17:59<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: It will need some other changes, too: Like fixing the UUID in /etc/fstab and installing the bootloader.
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18:00<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: We initially had the idea that this imaging process has to work on Windows. It could be possible with WSL2, but it is definitely harder to do on Windows than the image-based approach.
18:00<dez98dv>that is to say individual? not go through a backup and restore of the image of each partition by gnome-dik? to copy paste files?
18:00<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: exactly
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18:01<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Not by "copy paste" because most GUI programs will mess up the permissions among other things, but by means of `rsync -a SOURCE DESTINATION` or `tar -C SOURCE -c . | tar -C DESTINATION -x`.
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18:03<dez98dv>Doing the partitions and partition images myself manually is the same as using programs such as "redo backup" or "acronis"?
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18:04<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, The problem is that in my case it is necessary that once the key is ready, it is fully operational, I can not afford what must be done other manipulation
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18:06<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, Don't you think that the problems I have would not be due to the vm with the snapshots and all that instead?
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18:09<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: You could indeed try to eliminate that as a problem source with the live-system based approach,
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18:11<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, I can't understand what you mean by this technique? What would it be to start the vm and do a "pv"? Because if I boot from a pure lyve cd I wouldn't have all the configuration, the packages that I would have installed and all
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18:11<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Yes, you run a live CD in the VM. It need not have many programs, if it has a `dd` that suffices for our purposes.
18:12<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: From the live system, you will be able to list the block devices just like before with `lsblk`.
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18:12<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Then identify the virtual HDD and the USB and use `dd` (`pv` is likely not installed) to copy from the virtual HDD to the USB.
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18:13<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: If the issue was really due to alignment issues (or missing initramfs entries), it will fail like before. If it was in any way related to the snapshots, it might work better :)
18:13<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, yes but I don't want a live cd because the goal is that I can make clones of my system which is personalized
18:14<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: You do not copy the live system. The live system only serves to have the virtual HDD unmounted such that you can safely copy it. What gets copied to the USB in the end is "just like before, but this time hopefully right" the content of the virtual HDD.
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18:15<dez98dv>ok I'm testing now we'll see
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18:18<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, ok i'm on the live cd in the vm
18:18<dez98dv>with usb key
18:18<dez98dv>what i try of command?
18:19<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: and the virtual HDD. Now you need to find out which of the devices is what. `lsblk` is a good start. Probably followed by `ls /dev/disk/by-id`.
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18:23<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, just 1 min
18:24<dez98dv>bad live cd i try with xubuntu
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18:28<dez98dv>it's block
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18:30<Linux-Fan>Do you still have the Debian Installer handy? If yes, it has an option to open a console and that would also suffice
18:30<dez98dv>yes i have
18:31<dez98dv>ok, i'm on debian installer
18:31<Linux-Fan>Use Advanced Options > Rescue Mode
18:32<Linux-Fan>It will ask you the keyboard layout, language etc.
18:32<dez98dv>inglish mode :D
18:33<Linux-Fan>When asked chose "Do not use root file system"
18:33<Linux-Fan>and then "Execute a shell in the installer environment"
18:33<dez98dv>please enter the hostname of this system
18:34<dez98dv>i try?
18:34<Linux-Fan>Just press enter :)
18:34<Linux-Fan>Basically it asks you some of the questions the regular installer asks, too.
18:34<Linux-Fan>But this will only be set for the live session running.
18:35<dez98dv>i'm on time zone
18:35<Linux-Fan>Just enter your data or anything that you are comfortable with for the live session. Again: These settings will not persist.
18:35<dez98dv>ok i'm on the shell
18:36<dez98dv>in qwerty
18:36<Linux-Fan>Good. Now our `lsblk` command is not available in this environment. But `ls /dev/disk/by-id` and `ls /dev/disk/by-path -l` should still tell which one is the virtual HDD and which one the USB.
18:37<Linux-Fan>Did it not ask you for the keyboard layout? Here it successfully applied my choice which was not querty...
18:37<dez98dv>lsblk not found
18:37<Linux-Fan>Yes, as I said, we need to use the ls commands :)
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18:40<Linux-Fan>All the necessary devices are there. The `sdb` is your USB and the `sda` is your virtual HDD.
18:40<Linux-Fan>Just confirm this once more with a `ls /dev/disk/by-id -l`. The ones with `DataTraveler` should point to `sdb` if everything is OK. No need for another screenshot :)
18:41<dez98dv>i replace by-id by sdb?
18:41<Linux-Fan>No, just `ls /dev/disk/by-id -l`
18:42<Linux-Fan>Then check the output: there are multiple linkes like before (these ata-VBOX_CD-ROM_VB1-... and ata-VBOX_HARDDISK... and usb-Kingston...)
18:42<dez98dv>vbox sda1 sda2
18:43<Linux-Fan>Then the dangerous command which overwrites all data on the USB: `dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M`
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18:44<Linux-Fan>Screenshot looks good. This copies all the data from `sda` to `sdb`. Just like before but this time hopefully no interference wrt. UUIDs. Ensure none of the drives is mounted.
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18:46<dez98dv>command go
18:46<Linux-Fan>Unlike pv, this one will not print out anything while working.
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18:49<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, but the I can make a direct copy on the key but in the case where I do not have the key can I make an image before? and put it on the key because it will be on another remote pc
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18:51<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: From inside the live system, you can also copy data over the network. E.g.: This debian installer rescue mode has `nc` -- a program that allows you to send data over network. You can run `nc` on your host and connect to it from the live system inside the VM also using `nc`.
18:51<Linux-Fan>Then, it is possible to send the image data over that channel :)
18:51<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, and what is "bs=1M"?
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18:52<Linux-Fan>It speeds up the copying by using a very large buffer.
18:52<mmalter>Hello! Do any of you know how to kill X with ctrl-alt-del
18:52<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: The buffer size is 1 MiB as opposed to the default 512 bytes.
18:53<mmalter>I miss my good old magical keys
18:53<Linux-Fan>mmalter: There is still SysRQ
18:53<dez98dv>yes but this is a post in wan, it's too complex that's why I would like to make a backup of the vm in iso or img for after repatriating it on the post by dropbox or google drive for example for after remotely restore it to the key. You know what I mean?
18:54<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: You can backup the VM image as-is. Restoring will need a VirtualBox again, but that should not be too hard to get?
18:55<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, save how? What will that be the command?
18:56<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Virtualbox has a directory where it stores the `.vdi` file -- the one with all the snapshots. Just backup that one and you can restore the VM if needed.
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18:57<mmalter>Linux-Fan: Well, there is sysrq i. Not quite what I want but I guess I can revert to that. Apparently systemd has a binding for ctrl alt del but I am not too familiar with it. I'll figure it out thanks.
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18:58<Linux-Fan>mmalter: Sysrq k was more what I had thought of. Not sure if it is enabled by default, though :)
18:58<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, yes but there would not be a solution that I would not have to download on the remote pc virtualbox + the iso of a live cd + the vdi .. it's too heavy! I should be able to directly restore an image from the vm or from a usb key
18:59<mmalter>Linux-Fan: oh yes k makes way more sense you are right
18:59<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, the copy is still not finished apparently
18:59<mmalter>Oh well, I am going to try things out so I don't expect irssi to survive. I'll come back later maybe help some people if I can.
18:59<dez98dv>ah it's ok Linux-Fan
19:00<dez98dv>record in
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19:00<dez98dv>record out
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19:02<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Once the USB works as expected, you can also make an image of that one. `pv /dev/sdb > backup.img` or such :)
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19:02<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, ok, so i can test i turn off the vm and i test the key on the pc?
19:03<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Power off the VM properly with command `poweroff`. If you are doing this frequently, consider using a virtualization software that supports the "raw"/.img" images directly.
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19:04<dez98dv>Llike what ? i am using kvm and virtualbox. before I was on vmware
19:05<Linux-Fan>dze98dv: KVM can definitely do it
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19:06<Linux-Fan>dze98dv: Does it nowdays work to use KVM and VirtualBox in parallel? I used to have problems with that...
19:07<mmalter>Linux-Fan: Well sysreq k just reboots my machine, gracefully apparently (wrt to mounted disks)
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19:07<mmalter>I was expecting a login prompt in the tty. Idk, still exploring
19:07<Linux-Fan>mmalter: That's not its original intention. It was intended to be the secure access key that brings you back to the login prompt, yes. Maybe they have changed the semantics in the name of security.
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19:08<dez98dv>if i use kvm i close virtualbox
19:08<dez98dv>and if i use virtualbox i close kvm
19:08<Linux-Fan>mmalter: I also recall that there was some fuss about most SysRQ being disabled nowdays for security reasons (and reboot was an exception).
19:08<dez98dv>but i have a problem with kvm and network
19:08<dez98dv>i have no internet with "nat" mode
19:08<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: That means it works :) Back then you needed to unload VirtualBox' kernel modules.
19:08<dez98dv>but in virtualbox it's worked
19:09<Linux-Fan>daz98dv: Does your USB system boot successfully now?
19:09<mmalter>yes I can see the rationale behind this. Oh well, as long as I can avoid a hard reboot when my graphical server freezes, I am happy.
19:09<dez98dv>boot yes but same proble... very slow of freeze i dont know
19:09<dez98dv>it's blocked on a grey page
19:10<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: :(
19:10<mmalter>pretty sad they removed ctrl alt del tho, I remember using it quite often back in the days
19:11<dez98dv>I do not understand what is happening I wonder if it does not come from the key or other I do not understand
19:11<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Me neither
19:12<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, I will try again one last time on another key which in case
19:12<Linux-Fan>mmalter: That must have been before my times :) I even wrote a program just to kill hung X servers once: Because the problem with SysRQ k back when it still worked was, that it would kill the X server but not restore the console properly. Hence tha additional program
19:12<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: OK, but I will only be able to stay online for ~30min or so (it's getting late here...)
19:13<mmalter>oh ein Deutscher :D
19:14<Linux-Fan>mmalter: Jaja :)
19:14<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, no worries, it's very nice, I test after I am on the debian live cd, because I know that this key I have no problem with the live cd
19:14<dez98dv>on the pc with key, i have: "failed to start system security services daemon on a grey page
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19:16<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, can you repeat me the command line on shell debian please?
19:16<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: I do not have that installed, its also known as sssd.service, but I don't know what it means :)
19:17<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Commandline -- the `ls /dev/disk/by-id -l` was most interesting for finding the devices IIRC.
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19:18<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Afterwards: `dd if=<source-device> of=<target-device> bs=1M`
19:18<mmalter>Linux-Fan: These are your sources ?
19:18<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, no but it's to tell you that it starts again with the "failed services .." so it looks like the problem earlier
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19:18<Linux-Fan>mmalter: Yes
19:18<mmalter>Linux-Fan: perfect, thanks a lot
19:18<Linux-Fan>mmalter: Its a pretty "obscure" piece of software; do not expect too much from it.
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19:19<dez98dv>sda vbox sdb sandisk
19:19<Linux-Fan>OK, then its `dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M` like before.
19:20<mmalter>Linux-Fan: yes I saw. The canonical way is probably using systemd targets but honnestly I prefer digging into that code than digging into systemd configuration. Call me a weirdo :D
19:21<Linux-Fan>mmalter: If there are any issues with the program, feel free to e-mail me at the address from the website.
19:21<mmalter>sure sure
19:21<dez98dv>ok command paste
19:22*dez98dv has it up, but admits that linux is a killer
19:23<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Yes, but also a time killer -- we have not got that USB boot fixed in 8 hours :( It sounds so simple, but the devil is in the details...
19:25<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, exactly and to tell you the truth, I've been on it for 3 days non-stop, it gets on my nerves
19:25<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Maybe you need to change parameters. Approach it entirely differently? What is the underlying problem to be solved?
19:26<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, at the same time there can be so many causes to the problems .... it's boring
19:27<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: It happens all the time in IT and it is not a Linux-only thing
19:28<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, what I told you, that I can deploy my vm or os from an image on a key and that it is functional on the first try .....
19:28<dez98dv>it was one
19:29<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Yes, but there was also that other side aspect that the whole thing had to be an image for the restoration to work on Windows?
19:29<dez98dv>anyway thank you very much for your help, i'm waiting for the second key to be ready to test
19:29<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: That makes it difficult. Because as we basically learned from our long session: VM -> physical with USB does not work as nicely as one would expect.
19:30<dez98dv>yes exactly, we had talked about win32disc something
19:30<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Hence it would be interesting to consider alternatives. One option could be to use the VM image directly, but that also failed due to the snapshots/.vdi->.img conversion.
19:31<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: There are still some other means that one could try like e.g. just installing Debian using the Debian Installer on the phsyical machine. This is much easier in that no additional copying is needed afterwards but one needs to be careful not to mess up an existent system (if present).
19:32<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Depending on what you intend to use the installed USB key for, it might also make sense to prepare it using a live instead of an installed system. This way, it is going to boot of most hardware (e.g. live systems can support both: UEFU+BIOS).
19:32<dez98dv>otherwise I was thinking of using a redo backup or acronis type software and with the backup file to restore it but I do not know which software on windows could restore the proprietary format (tibx for acronis and .redo for redo backup)
19:33<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Once you have the USB working correctly, you know where to get the "good image" from :)
19:34<dez98dv>can i make a persistent live cd with virt-manager on it?
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19:35<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: If persistent means "preinstalled": yes, I do that, but it is not exactly straight-forward :) If persistent means: The user can later add/remove files and these changes are saved: This should in theory be possible, but I have never tried it.
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19:37<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, and in persistent mode I'm not sure we can put a root and user password
19:37<dez98dv>the key is gok
19:37<dez98dv>i try now
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19:39<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, It's work
19:40<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: finally :) :)
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19:40<dez98dv>what is the problem?
19:40<dez98dv>the key?
19:41<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Maybe? That would be my next suggestion: Check that it is not defective. Package `f3` exists for that purpose.
19:42<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, have already made check disks
19:42<dez98dv>on the key no proble
19:42<dez98dv>arf same problem on reboot
19:42<dez98dv>grey page
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19:43<dez98dv>ah and it's start
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19:43<dez98dv>with different bug message on start
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19:43<dez98dv>or bubblemail...
19:44<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Does not seem that any of them are essential?
19:44<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Or other way around: If the basic system works, one can go about finding out to what's wrong with the details.
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19:46<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, but at the base there is no error on the source system, I have the impression that the backup creates random errors it must be shifted bytes which crash some service or application I do not know it is a hypothesis
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19:47<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Well, but if it boots in general and there are some faults, that would indeed point at a hardware issue. In any case, I shall leave within the next minutes...
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19:47<polymetric4>anyone here got experience with building a custom kernel for the debian installer? i got the installer to build and i built the kernel itself but i'm having a hard time trying to use kernel-wedge to split it out into udebs that the installer wants
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19:47<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, ou du à la vitesse de la clée, car celle la est plus rapide. tu m'avais parlé d'un truc par rapport à la vitesse, d'un décalage à gérer ou je ne sais plus quoi
19:48<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: Google Translate fails at this one :) No idea what it means
19:50<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, in fact there is nothing that works on the new key, as soon as I launch an application it crashes. firefox cannot find the profile, rythmbox does not launch etc ...
19:51<dez98dv>Linux-Fan, you told me that there could be a latency problem due to the key
19:52<Linux-Fan>dez98dv: As I said, I am not able to debug this further now. I am pretty sure that latency problems would manifest differently. It would not get as far as booting. The errors you observe can be data corruption or something as simple as a missing mount.
19:53<somiaj>polymetric4: What is your goal here? Do you need hardware in which the 4.19 kernel won't run in? What kernel are you trying to build?
19:53<somiaj>polymetric4: note I don't have experience buildinga new kernel for the installer, but maybe there is another solution to your problem.
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20:07<TimMc>I used Debian Live to open a pre-made LUKS partition and LVM volume and installed the root filesystem into the latter, but when I boot I just end up in an initramfs shell that can't find the LUKS partition.
20:07<TimMc>...or something like that. Can't find the LVM, maybe. Have to check the messages again. Anyway, it seems like maybe the order in which things are loaded at boot is wrong. Any advice on what to look for?
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20:15<polymetric4>somiaj: i'm trying to set up debian on a 2017 macbook. and yeah, i know it's a terrible idea. but it's got decent specs and it was gonna be thrown out anyway because it's got a broken screen so i figured i could probably work it out. but 4.19 doesn't seem to boot. GRUB works but the second i boot the kernel my monitor says it's lost the signal. strangely enough, the ubuntu installer
20:15<polymetric4>for 21.04 (kernel version 5.11) boots perfectly. but i don't want ubuntu, i want debian ;p so i figured i'd just try building a newer kernel. i actually did manage to build the official debian 5.10 kernel from backports, but that didn't boot either. i've tried various kernel options (`nomodeset`, various `vga=` and `video=` settings) and none seem to work, and the ubuntu image that
20:15<polymetric4>boots seems to work fine with no kernel parameters. also, it can't be the initrd image from debian that's causing the issue because i tried booting without it and had the same issue, whereas when booting in a qemu VM without initrd specified at least the kernel tries to boot but then panics and displays an error. so i concluded it has to be 5.11 that introduced some change, or there's
20:15<polymetric4>some config option that the debian kernel wasn't built with that ubuntu's was. so either way, i've gotta build the kernel. it shouldn't be difficult, and it really isn't except for this weird udeb situation. i even managed to build /normal/ .deb packages of the kernel, but the installer still wants udebs. i was using kernel-wedge which is supposed to be the tool that splits out the
20:15<polymetric4>debs into udebs, and i think i re-compiled the kernel like 20 or so times trying various things to get that to work, but still no udebs.
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20:15<TimMc>OK, yeah: "Gave up waiting for root file system device" and "ALERT! /dev/mapper/cmmain-root does not exist"
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20:16<polymetric4>LOL guess my irc client splits out messages, holy wall of text batman
20:16<TimMc>I checked /proc/modules as recommended and I'm not sure what I should be looking for. cryptd is there...
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20:20<somiaj>polymetric: try the bullseye installer, it has a 5.10 kernel?
20:20<polymetric>yeah the 5.10 kernel didn't work
20:21<somiaj>polymetric: and it isn't something you can do with just modifying the boot parameters you send the kernel?
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20:21<polymetric>don't think so, i tried a bunch of different parameters
20:21<polymetric>plus ubuntu's 5.11 kernel boots without any
20:22<polymetric>oh did it not send the rest of my message?
20:22<somiaj>yea, unsure how to best get a new kernel in the isntaller, thought about maybe using debootstrap and just isntalling from the ubuntu kernel?
20:22<somiaj>I didn't read through the whole wall of text, a bit long (:
20:23<polymetric>yeah i thought about trying to just do some kind of manual install from that
20:25<polymetric>kernel-wedge is like this ancient script that is half-perl half-bash and fully-terrifying
20:26<somiaj>Again I don't know how to make a custom installer, so just giving ideas that ccould maybe help you out, there is #debian-boot and #debian-installer, they might be able to help your current appraoch.
20:26<polymetric>ah alright
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20:51<r4fkramer>Hi all, please I would like a command that identifies the model of the notebook I'm using. I used 'hwinfo' and 'dmidecode' in the 10.9 buster, which lists a lot of information.
20:51<r4fkramer>I want a more direct answer to what I'm looking for. Inxi -G also did not help me.
20:52<somiaj>the info should be in what you wrote out, I don't think there is any command that pulls out the model (since this maybe dependent on what info the firmware gives to the os)
20:53<sarnold>plus a lot of machines are 'rebrands' of a whitebox thing; eg clevo makes a billion laptops, and sells some as company A, some as company B, etc
20:53<somiaj>hmm try 'lshw | less', the first few lines of that tell me what my machine is, though I have a namebrand machine so the firmware will report correct info.
20:54<sarnold>(and a given model foo may actually cover a huge range of different available componnents)
20:54<somiaj>yea, model number is something people share a lot here that tells us nothing, it doens't matter what model you have, it matters what actual chipsets of components you have
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20:55<somiaj>(unless you are trying to work with the hardawre company, in most cases that is printed on a sticker attched to the laptop or came with the docs in the product you purchased)
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21:00<r4fkramer>Fine somiaj, I'll try it now. Thank you
21:01<r4fkramer>somiaj, I used 'lshw' here, its output is quite similar to other two applications I mentioned.
21:02<r4fkramer>Perhaps it is better to change the research strategy; is there a command that I can use to test the notebook's webcam, to see why it is not activated?
21:03<r4fkramer>I use mate de. But, apparently there's no specific information about it
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21:04<somiaj>just pipe it into less like I said and start readin, my hw info about brand/model was at the very top, if you don't see it, that is because your firmware dosen't report it
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21:15<r4fkramer>somiaj, I didn't pay more attention at first view, but the information I need is really at the top. Thank you very much !
21:17<r4fkramer>Now I have the procedure to test this hardware. Really thank you very much for Great Support :)
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21:55<r4fkramer>Hi all please, I used the command listed here, and it looks like my webcam is identified. However, it is not activated.
21:55<r4fkramer>Would anyone know to tell me what firmware I should install in this case ? I use debian buster 10.9 with kernel 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64.
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21:57<r4fkramer>For consequence, 'cheese' diplays: "no device found"
22:00<r4fkramer>'guvcview' displayes the following information: no video device found.
22:00<sarnold>r4fkramer: "Entry not found
22:00<sarnold>The requested entry isn't in our database. That usually means it expired or has been deleted by the author. "
22:01<r4fkramer>Sorry sarnold, I didn't understand... Do you refer to my paste in 'paste debian' ?
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22:01<sarnold>r4fkramer: yes
22:02<r4fkramer>Well, I don't understand what has happened, for I can see this output here. I'll proceed to paste it again
22:03<r4fkramer>Please, have a look, tell me if you can visualize it:
22:06<r4fkramer>'modprobe -r uvcvideo && sudo modprobe uvcvideo' didn't get me any output....
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22:08<r4fkramer>Please, sarnold, the output of 'lspci':
22:08<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: have you tried running guvcview not as root?
22:08<r4fkramer>Hi jmcnaught, I think not. Let me try it now
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22:10<r4fkramer>Please, jmcnaught:
22:10<r4fkramer>No device found. So, is this integrated webcam damaged ?
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22:11<r4fkramer>I exhausted my attempts here. I don't know how to search anymore.
22:11<jmcnaught>Maybe the webcam is not UVC? Is it listed by "lsusb"?
22:11<somiaj>You can check for missing firmware using 'dmesg | grep -i firmware' and look for errors loading firmware. If you don't notice any of those assoicated with the device, it isn't a firmware issue.
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22:12<somiaj>though seems others are helping you track down the actual issue, just pointing out firmware isn't always what is needed
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22:12<r4fkramer>Ok somiaj, thank you for information, I will check it now
22:12<sarnold>r4fkramer: I believe intel / dell are selling devices with a new webcam that can't use existing drivers
22:12<sarnold>r4fkramer: it's entirely possible that your device is too new
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22:12<r4fkramer>This is an old HP Notebook
22:13<somiaj>In my very limited exrepience I haven't seen webcams need firmware.
22:14<r4fkramer>Please, jmcnaught, the information you told me to:
22:15<r4fkramer>somiaj, I will check now usind the command you have passed me for firmware
22:15<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: I do not see a webcam in that lsusb output.
22:16<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, this webcam doesn't use usb entry. It's an integrated device on top of notebook screen
22:17<somiaj>usb devices can be integrated, is about the bus they are attached to, not how you attach to the machine
22:17<r4fkramer>Please, somiaj:
22:18<somiaj>learn to parse the output, you will most likely notice that your webcam device is not trying to load missing firmware.
22:18<r4fkramer>somiaj, I imagined such condition; just didn't believe it was possible
22:18<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: my laptop's integrated webcam is connected by USB internally, I think most are. It might be connected by PCI and lspci would list it.
22:19<somiaj>the only missing firmware is your rt2800pci device, which I think is a wired eithernet connection.
22:19<somiaj>actually it sint' even missing, it is correclty being laoded
22:19<r4fkramer>Ok jmcnaught and somiaj. So, what's happening here ?
22:20<r4fkramer>Fine somiaj, I realize I ought to learn more about reading outputs
22:21<blast007>are you sure it's actually a webcam and not just an ambient light sensor for automatic screen brightness?
22:21<r4fkramer>somiaj, you told me my webcam device is not trying to load missing firmware...
22:21<r4fkramer>So, probably is it damaged ?
22:21<blast007>could also be disabled in the BIOS
22:22<somiaj>r4fkramer: no, most likely that device dosen't not try to load userland firmware, as almost all webcams I have seen don't require userland firmware.
22:23<r4fkramer>jmcnaught analyzed and concluded that no webcam could be seen through 'lsusb' output.
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22:23<r4fkramer>please somiaj, so, what shall I do ?
22:24<blast007>if there is indeed a camera, it might be disabled or not use USB
22:24<somiaj>more research, since you don't see the device in lsusb, see if it is on the pci bus, lspci, also as blast007 pointed out, it could just be disabled in the bios/firmware
22:24<somiaj>before you can start debugging how to make a device work, you first have to determine exactly which device you have
22:25<sarnold>r4fkramer: I wonder, try hitting the keyboard button to turn the thing on or off -- it's possible the webcam is *removed* entirely when that switch is flipped
22:25<r4fkramer>I used 'lspci' already. Let me check its output here
22:26<r4fkramer>sarnold, I tried to find any button in keyboard for that. But, I don't know which button should be in this model
22:26<r4fkramer>'fn' button and other combination I don't remember now
22:27<r4fkramer>fn + f10
22:27<r4fkramer>no result
22:27<blast007>what model is this?
22:27<sarnold>no change in lspci and lsusb output?
22:29<r4fkramer>sarnold, apparently no:
22:29<r4fkramer>Please, have a look again. See if you can find any path
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22:30<r4fkramer>I see somiaj, that's what I'm trying to do here: determining exactly which device I have.
22:32<r4fkramer>I read in a forum about 'fn+ CAM( f10)'. But 'CAM' doesn't exist here....
22:33<r4fkramer>Or, I really couldn't understand what is 'CAM' variable, used in this suggestion.
22:34<sarnold>r4fkramer: probably that just means "the key with the picture of the camera on it"
22:34<somiaj>start at the bios/firmware, to see if it can be turned on/off, then use lspci/lsusb to determine if it is on the pci or usb bus, if none of those work, search through lshw and see if you can find it.
22:34<somiaj>though I would be surprised if it wasn't on one of those two buses.
22:35<somiaj>and yes sometimes laptops have hot keys that can turn things on/off as well
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22:36<r4fkramer>Well, sarnold, this key doesn't exist here.
22:38<sarnold>r4fkramer: how'd you find f10? I figured it'd have a picture of a camera on it :)
22:39<r4fkramer>Ok somiaj, I'll reboot it to check bios and see if I can discover how to fix this issue through it. I think it is very strange:
22:39<r4fkramer>You, sarnold and jmcnaught have been accompanying me on this research here for some time now, and we have not yet been able to find out what exactly is going on.
22:39<r4fkramer>If you don’t find out, it won’t be me who will discover it
22:39<sarnold>but you're the one with the device!
22:40<r4fkramer>sarnold, in this old machine, there is a speaker icon on the f10 key
22:40<sarnold>oh curious, I wonder what that one does
22:41<r4fkramer>yes, sarnold, probably this laptop was built in middle age, darkness age....
22:41<r4fkramer>no reference about webcam here
22:42<blast007>is it a mute button?
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22:45<r4fkramer>Sorry, blast007, f10 is referred to speaker
22:45<r4fkramer>not exactly muted, but not referred to any video device
22:46<r4fkramer>Well, I'm exhausted here. I thank you for your attention and effort in helping me.
22:46<r4fkramer>I will check the bios as somiaj recommended me, and see what I can get. Thank you very much for your attention and support :)
22:46<somiaj>it was blast007, but whose counting.
22:46<sarnold>the thing is, a speaker with a line through it could mean mute, a speaker with up or down arrow could mean volume up or down.. but what's just a speaker all by itself mean? :) heh
22:46<blast007>it means the button has been used a lot and the icon is fading ;)
22:47<r4fkramer>You are more energetic than I am to try to decipher this. I'm going to have a chocolate here, and check bios afterwards. Thank you very much again !
22:47<somiaj>That is why I got a keyboard with no printing on the keys, save the wear them all off stage
22:47<r4fkramer>Rebooting here :)
22:48<r4fkramer>yes, somiaj
22:48<r4fkramer>This keyboard didn't help me, anyway
22:48<r4fkramer>See you !
22:48<sarnold>bye :)
22:49<r4fkramer>Bye sarnold, thank you very much for assistance ! Same to somiaj, blast007 and jmcnaught !
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23:21<fs__>hello evrybody
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23:21<fs>what is your name
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23:21<dpkg>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at or
23:22<sney>try reading
23:22<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 或 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!-
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23:24<sarnold>you're probably in the wrong place.
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---Logclosed Tue May 11 00:00:40 2021