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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-05-13

---Logopened Thu May 13 00:00:43 2021
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00:03<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, there are support venues for other distributions, if you suggest a distro you are interested in, we might be able to point you to its resources
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00:20<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: I'd be OK with an IRC channel for sys admins of Debian linux specifically, and I suppose an IRC channel for people administering one of its derivatives, like maybe Ubuntu, might be OK too.
00:22*kingsley thinks it may be efficient to have a centralized go-to IRC channel for topics common to administering various Linux distributions, like backups, networking, patching, upgrades, etc...
00:25<somiaj>there is ##linux on freenode, but I haven't seen any debian derivative channel
00:32<kingsley>somiaj: Yes, I see ##linux too. I just asked a sys admin question in it. It'll be interesting to see what reply or replies, if any, I receive.
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00:47<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, of course many/most debian installs are self-administered. Participants here have experience with single/few -user systems, on up to larger commercial/educational settings. Debian admin questions at any level may crop up right here.
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00:56<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: Let's do like the mighty MythBusters, and... "Put it to the test"!
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00:57<kingsley>May I please have the benefit of informed thoughts on a nice, useful and reliable utility that a system administrator might use to glean the specifications of an installed DVD drive, and ideally, the info on DVD in it?
00:58<kingsley>At the moment, I'm particularly interested in seeing at least DVD space in use and free. But more info may be better.
00:59<kingsley>As a point of reference, when I examine a DVD labeled as having 4.7 GB with the "df -h" command, it reports 17 MB in use and no free space, which looks wrong to me.
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01:09<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, in the basic case, optical media are written as one image and not changeable on the fly. What you see is probably the fact that there is not free space on a finalized DVD. However, there is UDF, which allows something more like what you are asking about.
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01:09<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, udf
01:09<dpkg>[udf] Universal Disk Format, a filesystem standard primarily used on DVDs. Tools are packaged in udftools, see also <udf packet writing>.
01:09<Sqrt{not}>judd, i udftools
01:10<judd>Package udftools (otherosfs, optional) in buster/amd64: tools for UDF filesystems and DVD/CD-R(W) drives. Version: 2.1-1; Size: 128.6k; Installed: 412k; Homepage: https://github.com/pali/udftools
01:12<Sqrt{not}>(here I am assuming we talk about data DVD/CD usage... dealing with video player style DVDs is a completely separate issue)
01:13<Sqrt{not}>basic info also in the wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/CDDVD
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01:15<somiaj>kingsley: if it is an isofs, it is the size of the image that was created, and you won't see any additional space. Unless it is a rewriteable cd, in which case I still think the image itself will only report its size, but you can rewite another image onto the dvd.
01:16<somiaj>so yea, as Sqrt{not} pointed out, with dvd's the size is the maximum size, but once you write something to it, you get a file system the exact size that was created. (though some dvd's do have a small file system on it, followed by a music or video track, these are different)
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01:30<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Yes, my understanding is also that optical media can be burned as one unchangeable image.
01:32<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: I assumed I'd avoided that because I succeeded in "add"ing files to a DVD with a command line tool called "xorriso".
01:34<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: But, it gagged at 1.8 GB of data on a DVD labeled as having a 4.7 GB capacity, so now I wonder if xorriso was really "add"ing files, or copying preexisting files along with the file being added to the end of all previous writes, thus leaving less total capacity. FWIW, xorriso's man page says it doesn't use UDF.
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01:39<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, is this a bug? Apparently, 'autoremove' performs the removal of a package that has already been removed via 'apt remove --purge', and 'remove' again .... https://paste.debian.net/1197414/
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01:41<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: you removed linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 and autoremove removed linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-common (the ends are different, -common and -amd64)
01:43<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, are we talking about a "DVD-RW" or plain "DVD" ?
01:44<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, thank you very much for drawing attention to this unnoticed detail.
01:44<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: The disc is labeled "DVD+RW". My understanding that format allows rewriting.
01:44<Sqrt{not}>yes, that is correct
01:46<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, enjoying the moment, if you permit me answering me:what would the '...common' package do?
01:46<r4fkramer>bad english, sorry, hope you understood my question.
01:47<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: the -common package contains files common to all architectures, so that the architecture specific packages do not have redundancy
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01:48<r4fkramer>And the other one is specific for amd64 only ?
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01:50<israel>eai
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01:50<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: yes, remember that Debians distributes kernel packages for multiple architectures, so a -common package for common files is more efficient and prevents overlapping files
01:51<r4fkramer>Fine jmcnaught, now it's completely clarified. thank you very much :)
01:51<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, xorriso operates on ISO 9660 images. It can add to the contents of an existing image, or replace them with something else, but it does that by creating a new ISO9660 image and then writing that image to the media. It does not add to the end of previous writes.
01:51<r4fkramer>israel, please, only english language is permitted here.
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02:06<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: If you happen to have the time, and are so inclined, I'd be interested in your thoughts why yours truly is seeing 'xorriso -add' successfully add files to a DVD labeled as +RW and having a capacity of 4.7 GB until it chokes at just 1.8 GB, which as I'm confident you'll immediately discern, is well below the disc's claimed capacity.
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02:12<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, I (and maybe others) could look at what you actually did. Please pastebin your full dialog with xorriso so we can see the gory details.
02:13<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, paste
02:13<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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02:30<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: Thank you very much for inviting a pastebin. I did as you asked at
02:30<kingsley>https://paste.debian.net/1197416/
02:33<kingsley>I also included xorriso's output because it suggests, at least to me, that it's appending new data each time it's run. I wonder if the new file's data is appended to the end of the pre-existing data on the DVD, or, if xorriso's new session appends another copy of all the previous sessions PLUS the new file's data. It seems to me the later would explain my xorriso claims the DVD is full after storing on 1.8 GB on a disc labeled as 4.7 GB DV
02:33<kingsley>D+RW.
02:34<kingsley>By the way, I need to leave soon.
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03:22<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, after a brief look, I would point out that the "-dev" parameter invokes xorriso's "growing" method, which adds the new data to the previous data.
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03:25<Sqrt{not}>DVD+RW are capable of holding more than one ISO9660 image from xorriso. there is a parameter to force it not to add another image, something like "-blank as needed" but see the man page.
03:25<jm_>it would also make more sense to paste an error case, not a working case
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03:40<Sqrt{not}>it might also be interesting to see the output of `fdisk -l /dev/sr0`
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05:46<adm001mi>Hi guys is there an OMV channel?
05:47<adm001mi>I'm running OMV on Debian 10, and on trying to automatically sync my system time with NTP, it suddenly deinstalled everything concerning OMV.
05:48<adm001mi>when I installed NTP
05:49<adm001mi>nvm I found it, NTP doesn't like OMV and viseversa...
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06:55<usernet>hello
06:55<usernet>someone competent in OCR?
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07:26<Monstamac>Hello, looking for some help troubleshooting my buster box. Quite simply it keeps pausing every now and then yet I can find nothing in the logs that I have looked at. Ssh shell pauses, ping replies stop and tvheadend stops streaming and kodi clients disconnect. A few seconds later it unfreezes. I can only think it might be a disk failing but when i tested the disk it said it passed...... Hope its ok to ask
07:29<Linux-Fan>Monstamac: It could also be a network issue? Are you perhaps connecting by wireless LAN?
07:31<usernet>someone competent in OCR?
07:31<Monstamac>hi, no, its all by ethernet. one switch in between
07:32<Linux-Fan>Monstamac: Strange issue indeed :(
07:32<Monstamac>you;d think a pause would cause an error somewhere
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07:32<mahe>Monstamac: can you attach to this box directly (keyboard, screen)?
07:33<Monstamac>I can ( its in a cold garage ). I guess I should run kodi on that and see if the same happens
07:35<mahe>Monstamac: if attached directly, have a look at disk I/O using "iotop" next time it happens - my experience with some Debian boxes is that they tend to almost temporarily freeze under specific I/O load, while showing usage spikes of the filesystem journal in iotop.
07:35<Monstamac>thx I shall investigate that
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07:36<jm_>have you checked if kernel shows any messages when the freeze happens?
07:37<Monstamac>would that be in syslog ?
07:37<Linux-Fan>Monstamac: dmesg
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07:37<jm_>yeah, or just run dmesg -T after it
07:38<Monstamac>thats not showing anything since yesterday. tho I had a pause 5 mins ago. last dmesg was perf: interrupt took too long (4526 > 4335), lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample_rate to 44000
07:39<Monstamac>but that was yesterday
07:39<Linux-Fan>Monstamac: Still, it makes the I/O theory even more worth pursuing.
07:39<Monstamac>if it is the io spike, what would I do to fix it ?
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07:40<Linux-Fan>Find out which process it is from :)
07:40<Monstamac>ah
07:40<Monstamac>lol
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07:45<Monstamac>so if im looking at IOTop, the IO % column is the one Im after right ?
07:47<jm_>it would show heavy users near the top so it doesn't really matter, you can also look at read/write columns
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07:54<andy>hello trying to install tor browser from tar file , i have achive manager but cannot copy the torbrowser file in order to run command ./start-tor-browser.desktop any ideas please
07:55<Linux-Fan>andy: Extract the complete archive first, e.g. with `tar -xf archive.tar.gz`
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07:56<andy>Linux-Fan: ok thankyou
07:57<andy>just like to say thankyou to abrotman for help in the past good to see you after many years
07:58<abrotman>Howdy
07:58<andy>hello
07:58<andy>it must 10 at leat
07:58<andy>least
07:58<abrotman>who untarred it, who owns it, who is trying to run it?
07:58<abrotman>Also, I thought torbrowser was packaged?
07:59<abrotman>guess not
07:59<andy>it is but not recent version it updates very often
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08:53<Monstamac>and im back in the room.
08:54<Monstamac>Just been watching the buster box, theres no strange io activity. It looks like the networking freezes. I can use xfce and terminal and list files on the disk whilst it becomes unresponsive
08:55<Monstamac>Ive tried pinging back to my mac, and instead of detination not reachable it just stops until the connection becomes active again
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08:57<Monstamac>I wonder if the powercuts we had have done something to the box
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09:01<jm_>connected via switch? tried eliminating that? how about cables - is something messing with them?
09:03<jm_>still if something happened to its link, you normally see it in kernel messages
09:05<Monstamac>its doing it all the time now so its easy to test it
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09:06<Monstamac>We had a massive power surge after a power cut a week ago, my mac freaked out and wouldnt turn on for 5 mins. It could be related
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09:10<jm_>are those the only two computers you can test with?
09:11<jm_>well let's be more generic, devices, not computers
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09:16<jm_>sorry need to run now
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09:17<Monstamac>no ive been testing with another macbook. and its connected to a firestick too
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09:22<Monstamac>im going to download a live cd of a dist and see if its the same
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09:52<greyman10>I am looking to by a drawing tablet for my debian bullseye to use for Inkscape how can I see what devices(drawing tablets) are supported by this kernal???? Thanks in advance
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09:53<greyman10>is there a hardware supported list for each kernel release?????
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09:55<Walex>greyman10: there are several out-of-date and incomplete lists of hardware that will likely work. AFAIK no hardware is "supported".
09:55<Walex>greyman10: anyhow usually most Wacom tablets seem to work, but this is hearsay.
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09:55<greyman10>thanks for the feedback
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10:00<somiaj>greyman10: often times go and find hardware you like, then look up its support in the linux kernel.
10:00<somiaj>though with a drawing tablet, xorg support (via libinput) is also needed
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10:02<greyman10>how would I look up the support in the linux kernel??? I need help with this step
10:02<somiaj>I just use google
10:03<somiaj>though other search engines can probly help, there is no central location, but often times you can find forum posts about hardware that works/doesnt' work.
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10:54<cheako>Anyone use A2 hosting? I wonder what speed they throttle at for an unmanaged VPS?
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10:56<cheako>Looking for somewhere I can get 200Mb/s
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10:59<somiaj>cheako: Might as well ask their support what they claim to provide.
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11:20<unixbsd>Hello
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11:21<unixbsd>how to mount a filesystem squashfs using live-boot, that is located on /dev/sda1 on a ufs. So how to force: mount -t ufs -o ro,ufstype=ufs2 /dev/sda1 ... to live-boot????
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11:44<thehuziek>hola
11:45<user2259847770>q tal
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12:07<thehuziek>hola que onda
12:08<Sqrt{not}>unixbsd, I am confused -- are you running a debian live-system on DVD? is the squashfs located on the live system, or in the BSD partition on the sda1?
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12:09<Sqrt{not}>thehuziek, hello, welcome, but we mostly understand only english here, sorry
12:09<Sqrt{not}>!es
12:09<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
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12:12<thehuziek>ok sorry
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12:23<cheako>Is there a tutorial on writing systemd services? I'm working with flowgrind. The instructions just say "Start flowgrindd on all machines that should be the endpoint of a flow."
12:26<somiaj>cheako: there are various examples out there, but really you just need to write a unit file and place it in /etc/systemd/system/
12:27<somiaj>cheako: though due to the number of options often times you can find an example unit file for your service and copy it into place.
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12:28<somiaj>https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html
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12:36<cheako>I'm looking for a walkthrough... Like if your process backgrounds(fork) than <...> otherwise <...>, if your daemon has an option to run foreground thats <preferred/not preferred>.
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12:52<thehuziek>hello amk
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12:53<sney>!chat
12:53<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic (either freenode or oftc) or #moocows on irc.oftc.net, ##chat on irc.freenode.net, or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
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12:56<sney>cheako: unfortunately, not many people write HOWTOs for linux stuff anymore. you might get lucky with something on e.g. youtube; otherwise, a good shortcut is to find an existing service that starts the way you want your service to start, and copy/modify its service definition.
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13:30<unixbsd>Sqrt{not}: I have a like running ... and I need to mount my overlay from an ufs system
13:31<unixbsd>the squashfs is on a /dev/sda1 ufs ufstype ufs2...
13:31<unixbsd>have a look if you have time here : https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pcmedkit
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13:37<unixbsd>is there a channel for debian-live ?
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13:38<sward>cheako: try the systemd for Administrators series: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/#thesystemdforadministratorsblogseries
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13:41<sward>In general the preferred way is to use simple services where your process stays in the foreground if supported by the software.
13:41<Sqrt{not}>unixbsd, is the squashfs in a file on your ufs2 partition, or is it the whole partition? Are you doing this mounting while running a debian-live system?
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13:46<Sqrt{not}>unixbsd, or are you trying to mount the squashfs of the live-system into your bsd hierarchy?
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14:03*scorpion2185[m] < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wFHnfipnpTTtcZuzCeZwEHvE/message.txt >
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14:14<unixbsd>Sqrt{not}: yes lord square root !
14:14<unixbsd>I have netbsd on part1 with grub2, and I need to mount from ufs2 (ufstype) the live !
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14:24<Sqrt{not}>unixbsd, your partial mount command from earlier just needs a mount point, then you will have the ufs2 partition available in the live system.
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14:26<unixbsd>live-boot scripts have no UFS ! not at all this : mount -t ufs -o ro,ufstype=ufs2 <---- this far missing for us, using Unix like systems.
14:28<unixbsd>have a look with cpio here: https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/devuan-live/-/blob/master/v3/initrd8.img.gz
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14:36<Sqrt{not}>unixbsd, if your live system is devuan, you should move your questions to their channel.
14:37<Sqrt{not}>!devuan
14:37<dpkg>Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on chat.freenode.net for support.
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14:37<unixbsd>i try to let live-boot do its job of mounting from /dev/sda1 (ufs) the /live/filesystem.squashfs but the developers have not added UFS support for it. see scripts/ <-- try_mount () function in the source code3
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14:44<unixbsd>Sqrt{not}: ah ha... funny devuan is evil ;), then we dont discuss about init.c
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15:06<somiaj>that never said devuan was evil, it only said that it is a debian derivative and not supported here. This is not a jump to conclusions mat.
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15:08<thehuziek>So what distributions do you use?
15:09<somiaj>thehuziek: This channel supports debian, so I would assume most here use debian on at least some of their machines.
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15:14<thehuziek>somiaj pues si de echo
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16:20<kingsley>Sqrt{not}: I just returned and found your generous and insightful comments. Both are fine qualities! Thank you very much for drawing my attention to xorriso's documentation that explains its '-dev' option that I use retains previous writing sessions. I was unaware of it, and suppose it may explain why my DVD appeared to not use its full capacity.
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16:21<kingsley>I'll check it out.
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16:35<kag>hello
16:35<kag>i'm trying to resurrect my udoo quad
16:35<kag>this is an imx6 based board
16:37<kag>i'm doing slightly differently from what i can read online, where i just put the debian uboot to the sdcard, which then takes care of booting from the sata drive
16:38<kag>to do this, i debootstrapped an armhf to the drive
16:39<kag>things work ok at first: uboot runs, finds /boot on the drive, but then, while running the kernel, everything halts
16:39<kag>i have a usb tty where i can see the kernel booting
16:40<kag>the last message varies, and is not pointing me to anywhere
16:40<kag>so i'm looking for guidance on how to troubleshoot this
16:42<kag>i'm targetting an up-to-date buster, but i also tried older kernels, with the same result
16:43<kag>i also downgraded systemd, but no change there
16:43<Linux-Fan>kag: Do you have anything installed that should run after the kernel (i.e. an init + tty etc.)?
16:44<kag>well, i think this is kind of where my knowledge of the boot process reaches its limits
16:45<kag>let me pastebin the boot log first, so that you can see where i am stuck at
16:46<kag>https://paste.debian.net/plain/1197519
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16:47<kag>i added debug to the kernel boot flags, this triggered this output that looks like a "set -x", but I didn't figure out what is running there
16:49<kag>just to clarify, i believe this board should be supported quite easily, there is even a dedicated dtb file for it (/usr/lib/linux-image-*/imx6q-udoo.dtb)
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16:50<kag>things i tried that failed: setting console, due to the unusual imx naming
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16:51<Linux-Fan>kag: Does your prepared system have `util-linux` installed (it supplies agetty)?
16:51<kag>i was worried that the device would get renamed in the middle of the boot and i was losing the log due to it
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16:51<kag>let me check, have to chroot to the drive
16:51<gr_wity>renamed?
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16:54<kag>@gr_wity something like tty0 to ttymxc1
16:54<gr_wity>those are never renamed (and tty0 is a special name anyway)
16:54<kag>Linux-Fan: yes, it is there, let me paste the dpkg --get-selections as well
16:54<gr_wity>the only kind of devices that are renamed are network interfaces (because they don't exist in /dev, they're kinda their own thing)
16:56<gr_wity>the rest -- it's the actual driver that decides to call it "ttymxc" something, so it always has that name
16:56<kag>dpkg --get-selections https://paste.debian.net/plain/1197522
16:56*dpkg selects kag's ultra-s3kr3t collection
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16:58<kag>as said, I also tried older kernels and older systemd
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16:59<Linux-Fan>kag: It looks OK to me. Do you have any other link to access the system from besides the serial? A VGA or Ethernet perhaps? In that case, you could e.g. install SSHD and check if it answers over network. Just in case that it would stop output over the serial at some point. I must admit, though, that I only ever had the symptoms you describe once and back then I was missing `util-linux` so it just hadn't
16:59<Linux-Fan>created the tty...
17:00<kag>oh yeah, that's a fully featured board, with ethernet, hdmi
17:01<kag>i installed openssh-server, but you're right, i should connect at least an ethernet cable to see if there is any kind of reaction there
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17:02<kag>i was going to grab the thermal cam to see if the cpu was doing any kind of thing... :)
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17:09<Makaveli>helooFriends
17:10<kag>ethernet cable connected
17:10<kag>the switch shows that the physical layer is ok, leds turned on
17:11<kag>not sure there is an equivalent feedback on the board, though
17:11<kag>there is no sign of anything happening regarding networking in the bootlog
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17:12<Linux-Fan>kag: Can you find it in the network e.g. with `nmap -sn` over your local network?
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17:13<kag>i see no sign on the dhcpd log of the mac address of the eth port of this board
17:14<Linux-Fan>:(
17:14<Linux-Fan>It was worth a try, though
17:14<Linux-Fan>Anything on the HDMI output?
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17:16<kag>Linux-Fan: the monitor tells me "no signal"
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17:17<Linux-Fan>kag: I am out of ideas on this...
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17:18<kag>Linux-Fan: thanks for your time :)
17:18<Linux-Fan>You're welcome :)
17:18<kag>any general suggestion on how to get a more verbose boot?
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17:19<kag>it seems adding the "debug" flag didn't generate much extra info, besides the "set -x"
17:20<kag>so i might have to recompile a kernel with more debug stuff enabled, maybe
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17:23<Linux-Fan>I don't know. When I had problems booting my ARM devices, I did not have the luxury of a serial console and thus tried to derive what was missing by "thinking" -- its success is dependent on luck though, thus I cannot recommend this technique :)
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17:24<Linux-Fan>I also heavily relied on comparison with other "functional" images to find out what mine were missing
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17:26<sward>Linux-Fan: also takes a toll on the head. May need beer (or alternative beverage) to help.
17:27<Linux-Fan>kag: This seems to indicate that you can add a `loglevel` to enable more kernel debugging: https://linuxconfig.org/introduction-to-the-linux-kernel-log-levels. I still think that given we see systemd output in the serial log, it should not be the kernel's fault?
17:27<Linux-Fan>sward: Yes, and sleep :)
17:27<kag>Linux-Fan: are you familiar with the u-boot + extlinux combo?
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17:28<Linux-Fan>kag: Familiar would be too much. I know I had to mess with `u-boot` to get it to boot but do not remember much about extlinux... let me check...
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17:28<kag>one thing slowing me down is that I don't know how to overload the kernel params extlinux sets
17:29<Linux-Fan>kag: To begin with, pretty much all of my knowledge about the subject is at: https://masysma.lima-city.de/37/banana_pi_m2_plus_edu.xhtml
17:29<kag>so i have to unplug the drive from the board, put it in a usb case, edit extlinux.conf, etc
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17:31<Linux-Fan>On my website, its under "Common Points of Failure" heh. I noted that the configuration is /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf.
17:32<Linux-Fan>I think to enable changes in that file, you might need to run a post-processing command like `/usr/sbin/u-boot-update`.
17:32<kag>yes, that's what i keep editing
17:32<kag>so would still have to chroot to it
17:32<kag>ie unplug chroot replug
17:32<Linux-Fan>Yes and have a proper QEMU config for ARM emulation
17:32<kag>yeah, this is fine, i have qemu-static in there to apt install stuff
17:33<Linux-Fan>good
17:35<Linux-Fan>Btw. it might not be good to change /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf directly. According to the manpage of u-boot-update, configuration should go to /etc/default/u-boot: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/u-boot-menu/u-boot-update.8.en.html
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17:37<kag>Linux-Fan: yeah, i know, i'm prototyping for now :) once i have a working setup, i'll break everything to rebuild from scratch and check i have written down all the steps i need to take
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17:38<kag>and yes, regarding the boot right now, it is very much possible that the kernel is running perfectly fine and that i have an issue later, typically systemd
17:38<kag>what issue, i don't know (yet)
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17:52<Sqrt{not}>kingsley, I'm happy if I could help -- My experience is all with DVD-RW up till now, so I learned something also today. Xorriso is powerful and versatile indeed.
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18:29<bleb>does debian have any policies or ethical guidelines around reimplementing a proprietary tool as free software
18:29<bleb>specifically, does the free version have to be renamed?
18:29<bleb>i've seen multiple projects with the same name compete informally for a name
18:30<bleb>in this case there is a tool zrep: http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/zrep/
18:30<bleb>i am thinking of re-implementing it, but it would be much more useful if it could be named the same
18:30<bleb>for compatibility with existing scripts and whatnot
18:31<bleb>i guess if there's no trademark, the author has no legal claim to the four letter name
18:31<bleb>but would debian have an issue with this on policy/ethical grounds?
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18:34<kag>Linux-Fan: interesting, I now have a way to dynamically append kernel boot params to those set by extlinux
18:35<kag>in extlinux.conf, i have "append debug ${bootargs}"
18:35<Linux-Fan>kag: Nice :)
18:35<kag>then I drive bootargs through the u-boot environment
18:36<kag>so I interrupt the u-boot boot to get its shell
18:36<kag>then I "setenv bootargs debug root=UUID=983d68ef-37cc-47c6-84d0-9c91ea0c1732 loglevel=7 init=/bin/bash; run findfdt; run bootcmd_sata0
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18:38<kag>in the boot log over the console, i can see "append: debug root=UUID=983d68ef-37cc-47c6-84d0-9c91ea0c1732 debug root=UUID=983d68ef-37cc-47c6-84d0-9c91ea0c1732 loglevel=7 init=/bin/bash"
18:39<kag>double debug and double root= due to the concatenation of extlinux.conf and bootargs
18:41<kag>not dropping to a shell, though
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18:45<Linux-Fan>kag: Does it indicate in any way that it is strating the shell? Before there was a "systemd / starting version 241" in the console. Does it still display this or nothing init-rlated anymore?
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18:45<Linux-Fan>I wonder if it might be necessary to explicitly tell it to send the output to serial like with `console=ttyS0,115200n8` (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto seems to suggest so but is about kernel 2.6.10!)
18:48<somiaj>bleb: debian itself will only require that the software clone actually meets the DFSG (so no taking even a single line of code from the previous project).
18:49<somiaj>bleb: As for renaming it or not, partly the authors call. I suggest renaming it even if just doing foo-ng, though you could call the binaries the same (or create links) if they are api compadable
18:50<kag>Linux-Fan: adding the console= doesn't give me extra info
18:50<kag>the set -x part is the most interesting stuff, i guess, see https://paste.debian.net/plain/1197540
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18:52<kag>i don't know exactly how this is supposed to work, because i get this final exec from a shell script, but after that, i still see some "[ time_offset] blablabla" lines, which I guess come from the kernel
18:52<kag>is the kernel doing some lazy initialisations?
18:53<somiaj>bleb: though that seems mostly to be a shell script, unsure how much desire there would be for this shell script.
18:53<Linux-Fan>kag: Not sure if "lazy initialisations" is the technically right term, but I think it captures it well :)
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18:54<kag>but assuming it is the init stuff that fails, it's a process, it shouldn't hang the kernel, no?
18:54<Linux-Fan>kag: That also means that unlike with systemd before, we do not get any message from the `/bin/bash` process. I cannot even derive from the log if it is actually run.
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18:55<kag>well, i'd like to know what gets exec'd
18:55<Linux-Fan>kag: It doesn't hang the kernel. As you noted, there is further kernel output.
18:55<kag>i guess it's $init
18:55<kag>yes, but it gets clipped
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18:55<kag>i would expect the kernel to continue running its life
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18:56<kag>i need to find what script gets run
18:56<Linux-Fan>kag: Maybe the kernel does not have anything further to do after the output stopped?
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19:03<kag>Linux-Fan: the script is very likely to be /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init
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19:04<kag>i have the same hash on my laptop and on another armel system for this file, so i'll assume it's also the same for the armhf for the udoo
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19:05<kag>ah yes, so it silently deals with the first "debug", which enables "set -x"
19:06<kag>then we have root=... a first time, then debug again, then root=... a second time
19:06<kag>due to the extlinux + bootargs concatenation
19:08<Linux-Fan>kag: my /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init has line 210 `mount -t tmpfs -o "noexec...` and line 214 `exec >$log_output 2>&1`. That might be the last `+ exec` without a command name we can observe in the log. (btw. MD5 just to check we are seeing the same: afde224772c68e8ce5fd0de0f2a8930c)
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19:09<kag>9b0cd0efd99138e771725a1754e477d7 here but same lines
19:09<kag>and yes, it is this exec
19:10<Linux-Fan>It explains why nothing beyond that line is seen: Output starting from that line is redirected to $log_output which is /run/initramfs/initramfs.debug
19:11<kag>yes, that's what i understand as well
19:11<kag>it's purely for fd manipulation
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19:12<kag>how can I remotely inspect this, i don't know, so i'll want to redirect to the console instead
19:12<Linux-Fan>Yes; Interesting that we would have different checksums for the file -- mine is from initramfs-tools-core 0.133+deb10u1 which is "Architecture: all" and thus should be same on all Debian stable systems.
19:13<kag>oh i run testing/sid
19:13<kag>0.139 here
19:14<Linux-Fan>That explains it :) Wrt. changing it to keep displaying on the console: There seems to be a `netconsole` option being tested for. Not sure if it can be made to work for just displaying the log in the console?
19:14<kag>i understand this is linked to initrd
19:15<Linux-Fan>Yes, if you want to edit the script, you'll need to do the `update-initramfs -u -k all` or similar.
19:15<kag>yep
19:15<kag>back to the chroot :)
19:16<kag>ok, let's try the netconsole stuff first
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19:17<Linux-Fan>This seems to explain the concept: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Netconsole -- quite an interesting technique I had never heard of before :)
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19:18<Linux-Fan>It allows you to configure a network location to receive console messages? And on the receiving end, a netcat seems to be enough.
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19:28<kag>Linux-Fan: ah, finally getting somewhere...
19:28<kag>netconsole is not going to help much, it seems
19:28<kag>so how to get to /run/initramfs/initramfs.debug?
19:28<kag>well, you can drop to a shell in initramfs
19:29<kag>https://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsDebug
19:29<kag>i break=top and now have a shell
19:31<kag>so that was quick
19:32<kag>break=top => shell
19:32<kag>break=module => hang
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19:33<kag>so i guess i need to figure out what modules get loaded and blacklist some, or continue by hand what initramfs does from the shell
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19:37<Linux-Fan>kag: Good to hear :)
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19:45<bleb><somiaj> bleb: though that seems mostly to be a shell script, unsure how much desire there would be for this shell script.
19:45<bleb>somiaj: people don't like shell scripts?
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20:00<somiaj>bleb: as a piece of software that has its own package in debian, but again others may want it. I also found a few other shell scripts that did a similar thing as that did. But if you decide to turn it into a debian package, follow the instructions on mentors.debian.net to try to find a sponsor.
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20:18<bleb>somiaj: thanks
20:18<bleb>what other shell scripts did you find btw?
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20:26<somiaj>bleb: https://www.reddit.com/r/zfs/comments/7fqu1y/a_small_survey_of_zfs_remote_replication_tools/
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21:19<alexandr1gonsan>hello
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21:19<sney>hi
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21:20<alexandr1gonsan>i need change source.list to receive update of nightly version to once day
21:20<sarnold>what problem are you trying to solve?
21:21<sney>there is no "nightly" version of debian, just the installer. once your system is installed then "nightly" no longer applies to you.
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21:21<sney>!bullseye sources.list
21:21<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main". Note that bullseye does not yet have security support and is a <moving target>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-security>, or <bullseye-updates> and "man sources.list".
21:21<alexandr1gonsan>I want the latest version of debian to test the new features and be able to provide feedback
21:22<sney>updates will happen when they happen, not on a schedule.
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21:24<alexandr1gonsan>but the bullseye has security bugs already fixed in the other versions. right?
21:25<sney>security bugs in bullseye still get fixed, it is just a lower priority than preparing for the debian 11 release.
21:25<somiaj>security is a little slower in bullseye, but for the most part anything grave is rushed through, and most stuff is fixed after a 5 day wait
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21:27<somiaj>alexandr1gonsan: also note bullseye is fairly deep into the freeze (The release is probably in the next month or two), so the only changes you'll be seeing at this point are rc-bug fixes
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21:36<alexandr1gonsan>where do I find the dates of the last bullseye changes?
21:39<alexandr1gonsan>thank you
21:40<alexandr1gonsan>I am going
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21:40<sney>too bad, it was an interesting question.
21:40<dvs>I would have said daily (or near daily)
21:44<sarnold>are there logs of which packages are uploaded when? something like https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/focal-changes/2020-September/date.html but for the different debian releases?
21:45<alex11>how can i see which services are started on startup?
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21:47<sarnold>systemd-analyze blame or systemctl list-units aren't bad starting points
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21:51<Sqrt{not}>there are 12 mailing lists with "changes" in the name, like debian-testing-changes -- see https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html
21:54<sarnold>Sqrt{not}: perfect! :D thanks
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22:30<kag>at last, a user prompt
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22:32<kag>had to blacklist=phy_mxs_usb,phy_generic,usbmisc_imx and/or provide vpu_fw_imx6q.bin + v4l-coda960-imx6q.bin, not quite sure
22:33<kag>Linux-Fan, if you happen to read this, thanks for your time
22:33<sarnold>kag: wow!
22:33<sarnold>nice
22:33<kag>gr_wity: thank you as well
22:34<kag>yeah well, the great lesson was to learn how to debug initramfs
22:35<kag>luckily, this is well documented here https://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsDebug
22:35<kag>then you need patience and educated guessing
22:37<kag>but it was interesting, though time consuming
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22:49<sarnold>it's always nice to know which websites hold the good instructions :)
22:49<sarnold>thanks
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23:35<alexandrogonsan_>hello
23:36<Sqrt{not}>hi alexandrogonsan_
23:37<alexandrogonsan_>I place the priority of a task as very low and even so my CPU remains at 100%
23:40<alexandrogonsan_>any tips?
23:40<Sqrt{not}>allow the tasks to run?
23:40<alexandrogonsan_>yes
23:40<alexandrogonsan_>task is
23:40<alexandrogonsan_>...runing
23:41<Sqrt{not}>OK good. probably more than one task running
23:42<alexandrogonsan_>yes, many
23:43<Sqrt{not}>maybe you should have 2 cpus, or 4
23:43<alexandrogonsan_>2
23:43<alexandrogonsan_>https://i.imgur.com/Eqiu9ZI.png
23:44<Sqrt{not}>that doesn't look bad at all. any kind of gaming usually needs lots of cpu, if it should look nice
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23:46<Sqrt{not}>so, with 2 cpus, you have 200% available, and you are using maybe 110% in that snapshot. no problem, if you ask me
23:48-!-nyov is now known as Guest3732
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23:49<alexandrogonsan_>why in the snapshot I'm using 110% as you talked about but also mark on the 95% chart?
23:51<Sqrt{not}>I don't know what tool made that graphic. Maybe it is an average 95% ? I don't know
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23:52<Sqrt{not}>I don't think you have a problem there. Why do you worry?
23:52-!-kali [~kali@2804:14c:bf43:8032:ba27:ebff:fe98:e3a3] has quit []
23:55<alexandrogonsan_>https://docs.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/start
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23:56<alexandrogonsan_>sometimes my laptop hangs and I don't know why
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23:57<alexandrogonsan_>this is the link to the tool I'm using to monitor tasks
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---Logclosed Fri May 14 00:00:44 2021