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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-05-16

---Logopened Sun May 16 00:00:47 2021
---Daychanged Sun May 16 2021
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00:05-!-dogsleg is "Lev Lamberov" on #debian-social #debian-l10n-russian #debian-devel-changes #debian-meeting #debian-haskell #debian-i18n #debian
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00:35<archivist>help sendpass
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01:26<Saturn>good evening!
01:29<kingsley>What's a nice, simple shell one-liner to compress a file, back it up and rotate its backups with no cron job or configuration file?
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01:30<Saturn>Without cron?
01:31<kingsley>I started experimenting with running the "logrotate" command as a user on the command line and relying on process substitution for its configuration, but was admonished with "error: error creating output file /var/lib/logrotate/status.tmp: Permission denied".
01:32<kingsley>Saturn: Yes, please.
01:35<kingsley>Plus, I tried running to work around the "Permission denied" error by running logrotate as the root user, but it failed to backup the file, and adding its "-v" option for verbosity, revealed "Ignoring /dev/fd/63 because it's not a regular file.". I assume /dev/fd/63 is the file descriptor assigned to my substituted process.
01:38<kingsley>It seems to /me that backups and simple shell one-liners have been known and loved for a long time, so it makes sense to me to invite advice on how to avoid re-inventing the wheel.
01:43<Saturn>I feel like I'm being playfully trolled...
01:43<Saturn>Anyone have any experience with python?
01:43<kingsley>Saturn: I do
01:44<Saturn>Well, I'm on sololearn, and I'm trying to do the BMI calculator. I understand where I'm weak but I'm not sure what to do at this point.
01:45<Saturn>Am I making sense?
01:45<Saturn>And how can we DM?
01:45<kingsley>Saturn: Have you considered asking a concise and precise question about python in OFTC's #debian-python channel?
01:46<Saturn>Let me /join that.. thanx =)
01:46<kingsley>Saturn: You're welcome. Good luck!
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01:48<Saturn>Kinda dead there; any other suggestions?
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01:50<craigevil>#python on freenode
01:50<craigevil>has 1500+ people in it
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01:51-!-ax562 is "realname" on #linux #debian #debian-next
01:51<Saturn>I'll try that now! Thanx!! =)
01:53<kingsley>Saturn: Have you considered asking a concise, precise and specific question?
01:54<Saturn>Well, I can't join them cause I need to register and do not understand how. So, would you prefer my concise question relate to python or joining that channel on freenode?
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05:04-!-vally is "vally" on #debian
05:04<vally>good morning!
05:04<vally>this is my problem:
05:04<vally>mesg | grep processor
05:04<vally>[ 0.000000] tsc: Detected 2900.000 MHz processor
05:04<vally>[ 0.093518] smpboot: Total of 16 processors activated (92796.35 BogoMIPS)
05:04<vally>i have intel i7 10700
05:05<vally>i need a specific configuration of kernel for my processor?
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05:06<repopulation>why would you? what's the problem you're having there?
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05:07<vally>it is not specifically recognized
05:07<vally>or not?
05:07<repopulation>why is that a problem?
05:07<vally>is correct?
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05:08<vally>ah ok is not a problem
05:08<repopulation>yeah it looks fine to me
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05:09<vally>the recognition is generic
05:09<vally>ok thanks :-)
05:14<vally>I had a doubt for use kernel module x86_64 generic or mcore2/xeon, but if it's correct that's okay
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05:15<vally>see you soon bye
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06:34<Eduardo>Hi guys. I'm trying Bullseye in my laptop, but just figured out that packages related to hibernation (uswsusp and hibernate) are not available in Bullseye. They was available in previous versions. So, the instruction from doesn't work for Bullseye. Could someone, please help me on how to figure out the hibernation in bullseye?
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08:27<petn-randall>franzopow[m]: test succeeded
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08:37<franzopow[m]>Great thx
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09:29<lanoxx>lfaraone, Hi Luke, are you there?
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09:42<muppet>hey. does postrm get fired off on package upgrade? trying to fix my package and trying to figure out how to execute something on upgrade
09:42<dpkg>During package installation, dpkg runs a script called "preinst", unpacks the .deb, then runs "postinst". When removing, it runs "prerm", deletes the files and then runs "postrm". These scripts can be found in /var/lib/dpkg/info/$package.{pre,post}{inst,rm}; as a last resort to fixing packaging problems, you can edit the script, e.g. by making the second line "exit 0" of a shell script.
09:42<themill>the diagrams on that wiki page are very useful
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09:44<muppet>looks like i may be doing my stuff in the wrong place. should be postinst I think. gotta figure out what the args are to it on upgrade
09:44<muppet>but thanks for that. am hitting the wiki now
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09:45<muppet>whoa. the upgrade flowchart is... ummm... big. :)
09:46<themill>yeah... error handling is good at making something that sounds simple into something much bigger
09:46<muppet>yup. which explains why many avoid doing it :)
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09:47<muppet>hrm. postrm should've worked.
09:48<muppet>the OLD postrm gets fired off with upgrade as $1. /sigh/
09:48<muppet>themill: thanks again. now I have a path to follow. :)
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09:56<Saturn>I'm getting unexpected behavior from resolv.conf. I've reviewed and implemented solutions from; none of it seems to explain what I'm seeing nor how to fix it. Can I get some help?
09:58<muppet>use a paste site to show us your resolv.conf ?
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10:02<Saturn>What was the command that used to show the link to that paste site? I thought I could type /paste but nothing..
10:04<Saturn>What's the best way to paste it?
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10:07<muppet>saturn: type /msg dpkg paste
10:07<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): or | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
10:07<muppet>there :)
10:07<Saturn>Ah, thanx!
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10:09<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): or | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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10:12<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi, Saturn_Pi, you're the same person?
10:12<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi, Saturn, you're the same person?
10:12<Saturn_Pi>yeah, so I can paste from this machine
10:12<petn-randall>Lines 11 and 13 look really wrong
10:13<petn-randall>What are you trying to accomplish?
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10:14<Saturn_Pi>I want the nameservers 192.etc only. I don't want lines 11+
10:15<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi: Just delete them then?
10:15<Saturn_Pi>When I do that and reboot, the lines come back.
10:15<blast007>that resolv.conf is being generated
10:16<blast007>what do you use to configure your network interface? are you using /etc/network/interfaces, network-manager, or something else?
10:16<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi: Is this on a raspberry pi?
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10:17<Saturn_Pi>I'm not sure, blast. How can I figure that out?
10:17<Saturn_Pi>yes, petn
10:17<dpkg>Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on for support.
10:17<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi: You might want to ask there. ^^^ They'll know how the networking on Raspbian is configured.
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10:20<Saturn_Pi>I also have the same problem on my debian based laptop. I'm in SSH on my raspberry pi.
10:20<Saturn_Pi>So, how do I figure out what is generating my resolv.conf file?
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10:22<Saturn_Pi>I installed resolvconf at some point. So, that's part of it. It also says the systemd-resolved stub resolver is modifying it.
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10:27<Saturn>So it seems that I need to update the configuration of systemd-resolved instead.
10:28<petn-randall>Saturn_Pi: Is that even enabled on your system?
10:28<Saturn>I'm not sure. How can I tell?
10:28<petn-randall>Saturn: `systemctl status systemd-resolved`
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10:29<Saturn>So, how do I edit it?
10:30<Saturn>How do I find out what is managing my resolv.conf file exactly?
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10:32<blast007>are those 'search' links part of the resolv.conf after you reboot, or is that something you added to the file yourself?
10:34<blast007>somewhere you added that incorrectly, possibly in your router's configuration. DNS search isn't for your search engine. It's for expanding a short hostname to a fully qualified name. (That way you can look up ComputerName and it will also check ComputerName.YourDNS.Search.Suffix)
10:34<blast007>most home networks will have no use for a DNS search suffix
10:35<blackroot>unless you do like me, run a complete local dns service :o)
10:35<Saturn>Lines 9-11 are from a modified resolv.conf.head | Line 12 comes back after reboot. | Line 13 is modified for some reason by the head but will persist.
10:36<Saturn>Yes, I have local DNS servers. I want to point to those local addresses only and I want no search domain at at all.
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10:44<Saturn>This looks promising, thank you!
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10:45<Saturn>As I look at this, it says the changes are not persistent?
10:46<blackroot>just try, then reboot
10:46<blackroot>and see if it works
10:46<Saturn>That's what I'm doing. =)
10:46<Saturn>As I said, it looks promising. Thanx
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10:52<Saturn>Alright, I'm rebooting.
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10:54<Saturn>didn't work
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10:58<Saturn>Something else is modifying this file. I already tried installing resolvconf to modify it as well. Something is modifying this file. I can't figure out where the is coming from....
10:59<Saturn>Can I grep all files in a directory to search for the string ""?
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11:05<muppet>Saturn: sorry. got distracted by stuff. are you using Network Manager or the like?
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11:12<Saturn>That's just it; I'm such a noob that I don't even know. I installed resolvconf. I believe I'm using that.
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11:14<muppet>Saturn: then resolv.conf is being managed by it.
11:14<Saturn_Pi>Yes, but something else must be modifying it if there is code that I didn't put in there.
11:14<muppet>Saturn: man resolvconf and have a read. I don't use it myself so I can't help off-the-cuff.
11:14<Saturn_Pi>Anyway, it was behaving in a way I didn't want before I installed resolv.conf
11:15<muppet>Saturn: what's the stuff that gets added? can you send the paste link again?
11:17<Saturn_Pi>Line 5, socal rr com are not lines that I've put in through the resolvconf head file.
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11:17<Saturn_Pi>Where is that coming from?
11:17<muppet>Saturn: should be there?
11:18<Saturn_Pi>I only put that there to obscure the socal rr part. So, yes, but ultimately no.
11:18<muppet>Saturn: ok. do: grep socal /etc -r
11:18<muppet>and see what pops up
11:18<muppet>(if anything)
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11:22<Saturn>Lots of stuff is coming up, all permission denied. Let me run again with sudo.
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11:23<Saturn>much better, now it only gives one entry
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11:24<Saturn>it says /etc/mine.types:application/vnd.comsocaller
11:24<muppet>ok. so nothing global
11:25<muppet>try: grep socal ~/.??* -r
11:25<muppet>do that as your normal console user
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11:25<Saturn>I'm running that same command on another and I got some different results.. That's going to be interesting..
11:25<Saturn>alright, doing that now.
11:26<Saturn>nothing happened
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11:27<Saturn>On my other box I got tons of matches... lol Most of them from this chat!!!
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11:28<muppet>haha. probably logs :)
11:28<muppet>and no matter what you do the resolv.conf file gets regenerated with those entries?
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11:30<Saturn>So far, and this happens across multiple systems. Lately, at least I get a local IP instead of their DNS servers but that socal rr crap keeps coming.
11:31<muppet>do your systems get their ip config via dhcp?
11:31<Saturn>I turned DNS relay off on my router, I set the DNS servers on my router as well. So, it should not be coming from DHCP, right?
11:32<muppet>maybe :)
11:32<muppet>dpkg -l | grep dhcp reports what?
11:32<dpkg>No packages found matching | grep dhcp reports what
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11:32<Saturn>let me check that.
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11:33<muppet>also: dpkg -l | grep network-m
11:34<Saturn>says ii isc-dhcp-client and common
11:35<muppet>and for the second one?
11:36<Saturn>ii network-manager and network-manager-gnome
11:36<muppet>and just to see if we can short circuit stuff: grep socal /var/log/{syslog,messages}
11:36<Saturn>So those are what manage my network?
11:36<muppet>as root
11:36<muppet>yes. likely.
11:37<muppet>network-manager would use isc-dhcp-client to get its network config
11:37<muppet>and it's likely logging stuff
11:37<Saturn>Thank you, this is fun.
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11:38<Saturn>wow! you're right!
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11:38<muppet>woo :) got an offending line? :)
11:38<Saturn>So, the log shows NetworkManager dhcp4
11:38<Saturn>all entries are this process, all related to dhcp... So.. It seems network-manager is the culprit?
11:39<muppet>ok. so likely it's your router that's doing it. or network-manager has been told to override stuff. so check network-manager config and router config
11:39<muppet>if neither show anything you /may/ have an errant 2nd dhcp server on your network (or you didn't check well enough in the first place :) )
11:43<Saturn>Thank you! I'll look deeper into this!
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11:43<Saturn>I have some questions about grep and dpkg now though. =) Can you elaborate on some things for me?
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11:44<Saturn>So grep socal /etc -r, grep searches within files and putting /etc goes to root and then etc directory. -r makes it recursive right? So why make it recursive? And what would happen if it were not recursive?
11:45<Guest3861>hello everyone
11:46<Sqrt{Not}>Hi mike
11:46<Saturn>good evening
11:46<muppet>Saturn: then it'd tell you that /etc is a directory and have a whinge :)
11:47<muppet>Saturn: given that you don't know what config file it might be in, /etc/* would be inappropriate as it could be in /etc/NetworkManager/ for eg and you'd want to look in there to. easiest way to do this is to just ask it to recurse through all of /etc
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11:48<Guest3861>Where are you from Saturn?
11:48<Saturn>So, I'm in the NetworkManager.conf. Nothing in here...
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11:49<Saturn>I'm from LA and you?
11:50<Saturn>The only mention of socal is in /etc/mime.types
11:50<muppet>Saturn: don't look there. (not that it's a bad place to look but NM has a GUI :). that said, is this happening on boxes /without/ network manager?
11:51<Saturn>When I do the grep
11:51<muppet>Saturn: if so then look closely at your router config.
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11:52<Saturn>I need to see about a new router anyway.
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11:53<Saturn>The only thing is that one guy in that tutorial has the exact same local IP addy showing up on his box too...
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11:53<Saturn>So, something is going on...
11:54<Saturn>Now, we did grep socal ~/.??* -r What is happening there?
11:55<Saturn>What does the ~/.??* mean?
11:56<muppet>Saturn: means match everything beginning with a . then followed by 2+ characters
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11:57<muppet>Saturn: we can't say .* because that'd match .. and, thus, make you descend outside of your home dir.
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11:59<Saturn>now with dpkg -l | grep dhcp what are we doing there?
11:59<muppet>Saturn: a better way to write that would've been ~/.[!.]* but that was too much typing. ;)
12:00<muppet>Saturn: dpkg -l lists all packages and their info and grep looks for anything mentioning dhcp - an easy way to look for a dhcp package. sloppy but the results are meant to be parsed by a human not a script.
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12:02<Saturn>damnit, I accidentally deleted my resolv.conf lol
12:03<Saturn>and now I reboot and no conf at all! lol this is hilarious
12:04<muppet>if it picked up an ip it should've written a resolv.conf. odd. i'd help further but it's 2am here and my brain is making stabbing motions at my consciousness.
12:05<Saturn>And that is crazy cause normally it would just repopulate the file.. It didn't this time and I lost internet access outside the LAN. This is crazy! I'm trying to rewrite the file.
12:05<Saturn>Thank you so much for all your help!
12:06<Saturn>Good night!!
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12:06<muppet>good luck :)
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12:17<Saturn>Aha! Found the culprit! So, I just deleted resolv.conf, rebooted, and nano resolve.conf to see what generated the file and it's NetworkManager!
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13:12<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): or | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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13:18<Saturn>How can I modify systemd-resolved or systemd-resolve.service so that I can change lines 17-19? Reading through this [], I noticed systemd-resolved maintains the file, but I don't know how to modify those lines.
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13:23<craigevil>edit /etc/systemd/resolved.conf
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13:25<Sqrt{Not}>Saturn, if you want something simple and unchanging, follow the advice on line 12
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13:31<blackroot>OR you can "chattr +i /etc/systemd/resolved.conf" after making the changes you want, but it's not ideal. but it would work
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13:34<Saturn>If you don't mind, I'd like to learn how to do both. So, how could I do the symlink mentioned on line 12?
13:35<blackroot>sudo nano /etc/mydnssettings.conf
13:35<blackroot>add your content
13:35<blackroot>rm /etc/resolv.conf
13:35<Saturn>And by doing chattr +i, if I'm not mistaken, I would be changing the attribute on the resolved.conf file so that it cannot be edited by another process?
13:35<blackroot>ln /etc/resolv.conf /etc/mydnssettings.conf
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13:36<blackroot>Saturn: yes, chattr +i will lock the file, not even root can make changes to it. have to chattr -i to unlock ot for changes again
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13:37<Saturn>Thank you blackroot! I'm going to try these edits and see what happens...
13:37<blackroot>Saturn: ln -s /etc/resolv.conf /etc/mydnssettings.conf when you have made your own dns file
13:38<blackroot>making your own config would be the "clean" way
13:39<Saturn>how do I do that?? =)
13:39<blackroot>as i described above
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13:39<Saturn>Alright, trying that now...
13:39<Saturn>So use the -s for a softlink and not ln ?
13:40<blackroot>-s makes a symlink
13:40<blackroot>you need to make your config first
13:42<Saturn>Yes, when I did the suno nano /etc/mydnssettings.conf it made a new file and I input the name servers.
13:42<Saturn>how do I unlink the file later if I decide I don't want it linked?
13:42<blackroot>then delete resolv.conf sylink in /etc by typing "sudo rm /etc/resolv.conf"
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13:43<Saturn>Ah! =)
13:43<blackroot>and finally use the ln -s command i wrote above
13:43<blackroot>to create new symlink to your own config
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13:46<Saturn>failed to create symbolic link file exists
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13:48<blackroot>did you remove the old symlink?
13:48<blackroot>ergo rm /etc/resolv.conf
13:48<Saturn>I created mydnssettings.conf and deleted resolv.conf
13:48<blackroot>what did you type
13:49<Saturn>sudo rm /etc/resolv.conf
13:49<Saturn>ln -s /etc/resolv.conf /etc/mydnssettings.conf
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13:50<blackroot>i assume you used sudo on the "ln -s" command aswell unless you'relogged in as root
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13:51<Saturn>How can I modify systemd-resolved or systemd-resolve.service so that I can change lines 17-19? Reading through this [], I noticed systemd-resolved maintains the file, but I don't know how to modify those lines.
13:51<blackroot>do "ls -al /etc" and look for resolv.conf and paste here the result of it
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13:55<blackroot>but no resolv.conf ?
13:56<Saturn>I deleted it, it's backed up as resolv.conf.bak
13:56<blackroot>cd /etc
13:56<blackroot>sudo ln -s resolv.conf mydnssettings.conf
13:57<sney>that ln command is backwards
13:57<blackroot>sudo ln -s mydnssettings.conf resolv.conf
13:57<blackroot>sorry, lol
13:58<Saturn>You failed to create symbolic link
13:58<Saturn>failed to create symbolic link, file exists
13:59<blackroot>that shouldn't happen
13:59<blackroot>cat /etc/resolv.conf
13:59<blackroot>what does it say
14:00<blackroot>sudo ln -s mydnssettings.conf resolv.conf
14:00<blackroot>i wrote it backwards
14:01<Saturn>I see lol
14:01<blackroot>should work now
14:01<Saturn>that seems to work!
14:01<blackroot>verify with "ls -al" thsat it points to your config
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14:02<Saturn>I LOVE IT!
14:02<blackroot>if it's correct, reboot and your changes should be permanent
14:02<Saturn>Thank you!!!!
14:02<Saturn>I'll reboot and see how it goes!!
14:04<Saturn>totally works! Thank you so much!!
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14:11<Saturn>wow, this is so nice
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14:15<pgimeno>I am upgrading a system from jessie to stretch, and I am getting an error on dist-upgrade: libkf5screen-bin : Breaks: kscreen [...]
14:17<pgimeno>any idea how to resolve it? if I do apt-get install libkf5screen-bin, it tries to remove 400+ packages
14:17<sney>often the easiest solution for stuck packages on upgrade is to remove them
14:17<sney>you can install the newer replacements later once the upgrade is done
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14:18<pgimeno>yeah but 400+ packages removed... makes me a bit nervous
14:19<blackroot>upgrade form 1 release to another brings all sorts of problems anyway
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14:32<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: You could try to perform the upgrade (or a part of it) with aptitude. It's interactive interface sometimes allows solving dependency problems.
14:32<pgimeno>I don't know how to use it
14:33<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: If it is installed, just start with `aptitude full-upgrade`.
14:33<Linux-Fan>Most likely, it will present a screen indicating that many packages are to be removed.
14:33<Linux-Fan>Then identify the package that you surely do not want to be gone (e.g. your desktop environment or anything important)
14:33<Linux-Fan>Aptitude displays a number next to it (e.g. `19) `). Type `r 19` to "reject" this part of the solution.
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14:34<Linux-Fan>If it works, aptitude will next present you with other choices like even more or less removals. If it says `** no more solutions available ***` then you are out of luck.
14:35<Linux-Fan>Try if you can reject solutions until there are only acceptable removals. Do not try too hard, sometimes it cannot help.
14:36<pgimeno>I've executed it and it said "No solution found within the allotted time. Try harder? [Y/n] " I answered yes and it happened again
14:36<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: That means it's too complicated for aptitude :(
14:37<Linux-Fan>Another thing worth checking: Do you use pinning? What is in your `sources.list` (and `sources.list.d`)?
14:37<pgimeno>no, I don't use pinning. Let me paste my sources.list somewhere (sources.list.d is empty)
14:38<somiaj>pgimeno: paste the output of 'apt policy'
14:39<somiaj>pgimeno: use a pastebin, such as
14:39<somiaj>also read this factoid, if you want to provide all relevant info
14:39<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
14:39<somiaj>note apt-cache policy and apt policy are the same
14:41<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: The sources.list looks OK to me
14:42<somiaj>though there could be things in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, hence apt policy would be useful.
14:42<somiaj>pgimeno: note the 400 packages being removed might all be related to a single meta-package (sounds like kde) which could all be reinstalled with a single command
14:42<pgimeno>I found two threads with similar problems. This one is in German and is identical: but I don't speak German. This is just similar:
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14:44<pgimeno>the German one doesn't seem to be solved, and trying the solutions mentioned in the other one didn't have an effect.
14:44<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: The German one is indeed unsolved, it says the OP there did a reinstall.
14:45<pgimeno>somiaj: sources.list.d contains a single file which has all lines commented, so it's effectively inactive
14:45<pgimeno>anyway I'll work in grabbing the info
14:46<somiaj>pgimeno: still be nice if you actually provided us all the info dpkg told you to. But in this case it might be worth just removing those packages, upgrading, and then isntalling again, there shouldn't be much side effect. My guess is most will come in with a metapackage anwyays
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14:51<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: If you are reluctant to remove all the packages at once but still want to go the "removal" route, there is a command to uninstall just a single package and I have used that one to resolve dependency issues in the past, too `dpkg --force-depends --remove kscreen` -- it is dangerous, though. If there are better suggestions, please follow them first...
14:52<somiaj>pgimeno: what happens if you just try apt-install kscreen?
14:52<somiaj>arg apt install kscreen?
14:52<somiaj>it seems like kscreen is the package that is having the issue, you might be able to track down why that package doesn't want to be upgraded.
14:53<pgimeno>somiaj: I get into a spiral of dependencies.
14:53<pgimeno>That spiral ends with a package that wants to remove many others.
14:54<somiaj>pgimeno: yea there is some conflict in the upgrade in the kscreen depends, what happens if you just try 'apt remove kscreen'?
14:54<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: Does it spiral that way with `aptitude install kscreen`, too?
14:54<somiaj>also do you ahve any held packages?
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14:55<somiaj>but it might be worth just removeing kde packages and then reinstalling them (this way there is less to upgrade since kde is a big desktop)
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14:55<pgimeno>Linux-Fan: no, when I try to install the packages that are "not going to be installed" I get another similar message, when I try to install them then another, and so on until one of the packages is accepted but tries to remove many. That's what I called a spiral.
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14:56<somiaj>pgimeno: unfourntally this is the only way to track down the conflict, keep going through depends until you manually find the conflict, and you may have to decide if it is worth it.
14:57<pgimeno>somiaj: no I don't have any held packages. When I apt-get remove kscreen, this happens:
14:57<somiaj>pgimeno: I think sney original advise of just removing packages (remove kde stuff) will be nice because you can install it all back with a single meta package.
14:57<somiaj>pgimeno: alien? Did you use that to create any .debs and install them?
14:57<pgimeno>somiaj: there are many packages there that are not exactly kde
14:58<somiaj>pgimeno: Did you install any third party or custom packages in your old install?
14:58<pgimeno>no I don't recall doing that
14:59<pgimeno>I installed packages from debian-multimedia, but I believe these are removed now
14:59<somiaj>wonder if it is worth adding jessie sources back, then apt update, then aptitude search ~o, see if you have any third party packages that you may have forgten about.
14:59<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: Can you try `aptitude update && aptitude install kscreen`. I do not have much hope, but I'd consider it worth trying.
14:59<somiaj>pgimeno: ahh, yea this is party why we don't suggest that here
14:59<dpkg>We recommend against using; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See or ask me about <dmm stretch>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>.
14:59<pgimeno>these are the commented out entries in sources.list.d/
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15:00<somiaj>pgimeno: doesn't matter if you isntalled them, they could have brought in depends that are hiding
15:01<somiaj>my guess is either those or some other third party packages are making the upgrdae have issues. Something core has been changed, but I don't see why kscreen should be removing build-essential
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15:01<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: If you want to find out about third party packages, someone at the mailing list recently suggested this command: aptitude search '?narrow(?installed,!?origin(Debian))'
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15:01<somiaj>!dmm remove
15:01<dpkg>If you want to remove the packages from and reinstall the packages from Debian repositories, one could do this: dpkg --remove --force-depends $(aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p); remove the dmm repository from sources.list; apt-get update; apt-get install -f; install the still missing packages which were removed in the former process ...
15:02<somiaj>there is also that
15:03<pgimeno>this shows nothing: aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p
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15:03<pgimeno>I guess there are none remaining
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15:05<pgimeno>the list that Linux-Fan mentioned shows a huge list that I don't know how to interpret, it includes among others xorg and xpdf
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15:05<somiaj>I think part of the problem is you have jessie packages installed but removed your jessie sources, you should put your jessie sources back so you can correclty identify whihc packages came from jessie
15:06<somiaj>hence as I said eariler, put jessie sources back, apt update, then those search things won't get false positives for packages that were only in jessie but not stretch
15:06<pgimeno>hm ok
15:06<pgimeno>should I keep both or just jessie?
15:06<somiaj>both is fine
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15:07<somiaj>anyways, if it were me, I would just remove all those packages in that list, I don't see anything core, then reinstall the stuff you want
15:07<somiaj>this would probably be faster in the long run then trying to track down which core package is causing the actual conflict.
15:07<pgimeno>problem is that it's a long list, and reinstalling them will take a very long time
15:07<somiaj>not really, most the packages are libs and don't matter
15:08<somiaj>many of them are packages that are no longer in stretch so they would have been removed anyways
15:08<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: Wrt. long time -- whether you upgrade all packages now or uninstall the old ones and install the upgraded ones later does not make such a large difference in time.
15:08<somiaj>I basically see apache2, build-essential, kde, mysql (which is now mariadb anyways) and texlive
15:08<somiaj>basically remove all those packages, do the upgrade, and install the stuff you actually still use
15:09<somiaj>it will probably take less overall time then tracking down the issue and trying to fix it (and many of those packages aren't in strech anyways)
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15:09<somiaj>as mentioned mysql is no longer in stretch, alot oof the lsb stuff isn't, libs don't matter since the dependencies will fix that anyways
15:10<pgimeno>well, xchat is in the list, which I'm using right now :)
15:11<TobiX>pgimeno: Replaced by hexchat
15:11<somiaj>then install it back, again it is a matter of what time you wantt o spend. I think due to dmo you ended up in just a state that cannot be easily upgraded, so your choices are (1) spend hours tracking down what package(s) are causing the problem, (2) fresh install, (3) just remove the offending packages and reinstall (you still end up having to download about the same amount of stuff and spend just as much
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15:11<somiaj>time configuration)
15:11<somiaj>,v xchat
15:11<judd>Package: xchat on amd64 -- jessie: 2.8.8-7.3; stretch-backports: 2.8.8-15~bpo9+1; buster: 2.8.8-17
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15:11<somiaj>yea xchat isn't in stretch either, though I guess it is in strech-backports and buster
15:13<pgimeno>I expected to have to switch to hexchat. Trying to install hexchat says that it will remove aptitude and other 126 packages.
15:13<somiaj>again you are just in a strange state in this ugprade due to something, at this point probably best just complete the upgrae and if stuff is removed, don't worry about it, and reinstall, debian is nice that way
15:14<somiaj>so until you upgrade your core system don't worry about the other stuff you have to install
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15:14<somiaj>so I would allow all those packages to be removed, complete the upgrade, then install kde, hexchat, then at that point reaccess which softwaer you need.
15:14<somiaj>!install kde
15:14<dpkg>The 'kde-standard' package gets you the common set-up, 'kde-plasma-desktop' and 'kde-plasma-netbook' provide minimal KDE 4 setups with respective flavouring, and 'kde-full' installs everything KDE 4. To install using Debian-Installer (if not using KDE CD-1): from the 'Software selection' dialog, choose "KDE" (use space bar to toggle selections), then "Continue".
15:15<somiaj>pgimeno: kde-standard is the package to install for kde, that should at least get your desktop back
15:15<somiaj>(though as a desktop user, why not continue the upgrade to buster?)
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15:15<pgimeno>yes this is just a step in the way to buster :)
15:16<somiaj>pgimeno: yea, it will be easier to have less stuff installed to do that
15:16<somiaj>so yea, let apt remove stuff, then do two much smaller upgrdaes, then start installing back.
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15:17<pgimeno>so just remove kscreen and let it take out everything?
15:17<somiaj>that is what I would do, unless you wanted to backup and just do a fresh buster install
15:17<somiaj>you can install irssi to have a console based irc client if you want to come back for more help
15:17<pgimeno>I'll see how it goes
15:18<somiaj>also make sure you adoing this from a tty and not xorg
15:19<pgimeno>ok, I'll switch to ssh then and do it from my computer (the one I'm upgrading is actually my wife's)
15:20<pgimeno>one unrelated question before I go, is there any way to force apt-get --dry-run to ask whether to proceed, as it would do without --dry-run?
15:20<somiaj>if doing it from ssh, use screen/tmux
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15:20<somiaj>no --dry-run doesn't do anything so it just shows you what would happen if you said yes
15:21<somiaj>though I would still use a tty for this upgrade, just to be safest
15:21<pgimeno>tty is nonfunctional in this computer, I can't use it
15:21<somiaj>it is? why is that?
15:21<somiaj>yea use screen/tux then
15:22<pgimeno>no idea, but all the time since the grub screen, it remains in graphic mode and nothing is output until the X screen boots
15:22<somiaj>wonder if you are using some older graphics driver, oh well best of luck
15:23<pgimeno>no idea, it happened since she migrated to a new motherboard. I already asked for help here but there was no solution.
15:24<pgimeno>anyway, supper time for me, afterwards I'll try from ssh, thanks for the help!
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15:28<r4fkramer>Hi all, I saw that the new layout of the official Debian website presents some new information, such as the title topic "Enterprise Environment" in the 'Reasons to choose Debian' section.
15:28<r4fkramer>Please, I would like to know if there is a new orientation of the Debian Project, where there is an emphasis similar to the development of this OS, so that it is also targeted as an Enterprise Class Server, as with the agonizing CentOS, for example.
15:29<Linux-Fan>r4fkramer: I think that even before the website layout change, Debian was quite well-sutide for an "Enterprise Class Server" :)
15:30<r4fkramer>Fine Linux-Fan, I embrace this point of view also.
15:32<r4fkramer>I know that Debian is multifunctional and can be used as a Server, not just a workstation or Desktop for home use.
15:32<r4fkramer>But personally, I think that the emphasis that Debian Project Marketing gives OS for use on Servers, could be broader.
15:32<somiaj>Debian is the universial os, so this should incldude enterpise based servers
15:33<r4fkramer>Yes somiaj, before writing about it, I thought about this concept 'Universal'
15:34<somiaj>where are you seeing this info on the new webpage?
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15:35<r4fkramer>But still, as I noted, the emphasis given to Debian for use on Servers could be greater. Not everyone will realize that
15:35<r4fkramer>'Universal' in this context means an OS to be used for all thin, including for Servers.
15:35<r4fkramer>In the section 'Enterprise Environment'
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15:37<somiaj>ahh okay, yea it is just listing some reasons why one would want to use it in a enterprise enviorment.
15:37<somiaj>but to me that isn't new, all of that stuff has been true for quite a long time (though I guess LTS support is relativally new, has still been around for many years)
15:38<r4fkramer>Yes, somiaj, I understand that.
15:38<r4fkramer>I believe that more detailed and specific information regarding Debian for use on Servers is something very welcome, since the main requirement for a robust and secure server is precisely to be stable, and this is also the main attribute of Debian, along with with the item 'Security'.
15:39<r4fkramer>It's only a suggestion. I read the Debian case of Siemens, and got this conclusion.
15:42<r4fkramer>This description is very suggestive about the Power of Debian for Servers, Enterprise Class:
15:43<somiaj>I think the current info there is reasonable, gives a good overview, but this isn't the best place if you have suggestions for the website, read down at the bottom of the website about or other info if you wish to provide suggestions.
15:44<r4fkramer>Fine, thanks for hint. In fact, there is a specific place for that.
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17:17<repopulation>hi. bye.
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17:54<pgimeno>Linux-Fan, somiaj and everyone else who helped, thanks - apparently the upgrade has succeeded now. During reinstallation of packages I got other attempts at removing stuff, but now everything seems to be in good shape.
17:55<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: Nice to hear. You're welcome :)
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17:56<pgimeno>on to the squeeze -> buster upgrade now
17:57<pgimeno>err, stretch -> buster
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17:58<Linux-Fan>pgimeno: And I was thinking you had a bunch of old releases running there :). strech -> buster is also good, though.
18:00<somiaj>pgimeno: after the upgrade and you are fully on buster, you should run this
18:00<somiaj>!not available
18:00<dpkg>To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
18:00<somiaj>that will help you identify any packages on your system that are not from buster
18:01<somiaj>and in the future be a little more careful with third party repos, there are some okay ones out there, but dmo is known to cause issues
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18:01<somiaj>and you shoulnd't really need anything from dmo anyways thesedays
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18:02<pgimeno>I think I already had removed them during the update wheezy -> jessie
18:03<pgimeno>somiaj: running that right now displays a lot of output, most of it expected, what does that say?
18:04<somiaj>you have a lot of packages installed that don't come from your current sources.list (assuming you only have buster in your sources.list)
18:04<somiaj>so this is saying you have old packages that are no longer in debian (maybe are transtiional packages that have been renamed) or third party stuff still floating around on your system.
18:05<somiaj>so go thorugh that list and clean up (remove) what you don't need, and then think abou the stuff you do need, and see if maybe debian has an alternative.
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18:15<pgimeno>if you select a package for installation that was installed automatically, that marks it as manually installed. Is there a way to mark it back as automatically installed again?
18:16<sney>apt-mark auto packagename
18:16<pgimeno>ah thanks
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18:27<ronald>Hi, im new here. is this debian channel?
18:27<ronald>thank you :)
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18:30<pgimeno>somiaj: after removing auto-installed packages, the list got substantially shorter :)
18:32<pgimeno>now I am trying to understand why attempting to upgrade chromium is trying to cause another huge removal
18:33<ronald>im not very knowledgeable with technical stuff. did you install chromium from the package manager?
18:33<somiaj>still sounds like you have some core stuff that isn't fully upgraded causing a conflict.
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18:34<somiaj>Just as before it takes a bit to track down the actual dependcy issue, but might as well just let it remove things then reinstall trying to get yourself back to a nicer state
18:35<ronald>i thought the package manager can take care of handling the dependencies
18:37<pgimeno>this one is crazy, it is trying to remove things like curl, git, cmake, feh, the just-reinstalled kde and libreoffice, and several more things
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18:39<cheako>I just setup Starlink and now I want to setup MRTG to graph bandwidth. What application do ppl use? I'm afraid anything JS related won't work... unless there is headless FF. I have a VPS all setup and tried `Flowgrind`. It has this silly thing were the source always connects the the destination and uploads, so it can't be used to "download" something through a NAT.
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18:40<somiaj>pgimeno: there is still some core libs on your machine that are conflicting with things, did you work you way through the full list of unavaialble packages so far?
18:41<somiaj>cheako: Does it have to be a graph? Would something like iptraf-ng suit your needs?
18:43<somiaj>it will create a logfile of the use, but it can grow fast as it logs constantally
18:43<Linux-Fan>cheako: I use `monitorix` for graphing system metrics. It should do bandwidth just fine and without JS. Not sure if I understood the question correctly, though.
18:45<pgimeno>somiaj: not yet. Right now I'm trying to understand why python3-xdg is in the list
18:45<somiaj>,v python3-xdg
18:45<judd>Package: python3-xdg on amd64 -- jessie: 0.25-4; stretch: 0.25-4; jessie-security: 0.25-4+deb8u1; buster: 0.25-5; bullseye: 0.27-2; sid: 0.27-2
18:45<somiaj>pgimeno: what is the output of 'apt policy python3-xdg'
18:46<somiaj>pgimeno: wonder if one of the core things you havn't upgrade yet is python, that could cause issues with lots of things.
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18:48<somiaj>pgimeno: oh you have only upgraded to stretch? I wouldn't start installing kde and all the other packages until you do the buster step
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18:48<somiaj>pgimeno: anyways, the issue here is that appears to be a security package, but you don't have stretch/security your your sources.
18:48<somiaj>!stretch sources.list
18:48<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb stretch main" "deb stretch/updates main" "deb stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
18:48<somiaj>pgimeno: This might be your issue, you need the security sources
18:49<pgimeno>deb stretch/updates main contrib non-free
18:49<somiaj>Yup, you want that in your soruces.list
18:49<pgimeno>I have that
18:49<pgimeno>that was copied from my sources.list
18:50<somiaj>actually this is weird, jessie-security has a 0.25-4+deb8u1 (newer version) but strech doens't, strange
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18:50<somiaj>so for some reason the stretch version < jessie-security version
18:50<somiaj>pgimeno: try apt install pythong-xdg=0.25-4
18:51<somiaj>sorry, that should be python3-xdg
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18:52<pgimeno>yes, it's gone from the list now
18:52<somiaj> -- strange jessie was fixed but not stretch, I think this is due to a difference in the LTS vs security team
18:53<somiaj> -- seems that is a fairly recent change, that bug even notices the issue
18:53<judd>Bug in src:pyxdg (closed, jessie, upstream, stretch, bullseye, buster, security): «pyxdg: CVE-2019-12761»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-06-06; last modified: 2021-05-09.
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18:58<pgimeno>I've found a leftover package causing problems, vdpau-va-driver
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18:59<aprendiz>How can I catch mdvdr somewhere in here, greetings
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18:59<aprendiz>How can I catch mdvdr somewhere in here, greetings
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19:01<bremner>aprendiz: this channel is for debian support. Do you have a debian support question?
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19:05<pgimeno>somiaj: it appears that there were indeed lingering packages from dmo causing problems
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19:07<somiaj>pgimeno: Yea, and sometimes tracking the list of depends to find the problem package is a pain, apt only can figure out something cannot be done, but cannot really point at why.
19:07<somiaj>pgimeno: though you just gave me more evidence the dmo should be avoided.
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19:21<dpkg><ricky_clarkson> abrotman: My mum loves me when I've got surplus cash, like most women.
19:21<abrotman>that ricky ..
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19:33<pgimeno>ok, I may have found an offender, but I'm concerned. It's libxvidcore4, the version in the system is 3:1.3.3-dmo1 and the version in stretch appears to be 1.3.4-1+b2, but when I try apt-get install libxvidcore4=1.3.4-1+b2 it says it's not available
19:34<pgimeno>,v libxvidcore4
19:34<judd>Package: libxvidcore4 on amd64 -- jessie: 2:1.3.3-1; stretch: 2:1.3.4-1+b2; buster: 2:1.3.5-1; bullseye: 2:1.3.7-1; sid: 2:1.3.7-1; stretch-multimedia: 3:1.3.4-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 3:1.3.7-dmo0+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 3:1.3.7-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 3:1.3.7-dmo1
19:34<pgimeno>oh the 2:
19:35<somiaj>pgimeno: use apt policy packagename to see info like that
19:35<pgimeno>thanks, I'll try to remember
19:36<somiaj>but yea due to the epoch, 3:whatever > 2:whatever so that is why the dmo package wouldn't upgrade....
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19:40<pgimeno>grep-status is turning to be quite useful: grep-status -F version dmo -s Package | sort -u
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19:47<pgimeno>great, after getting rid of all those, chromium now upgrades painlessly!
19:47<pgimeno>somiaj: sorry for my stubbornness in believing these packages were removed already
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19:50<somiaj>well I trust debian to be fairly well tested, these problems you encountered usually only happen if you have thrid party software installed
19:50<somiaj>doesn't mean there aren't issues with this happening in debian, they are just very rare
19:50<somiaj>s/debian/debian stable/
19:51<pgimeno>I just didn't imagine the versions were so broken that they weren't upgraded
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19:53<pgimeno>thanks a lot for the help
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19:53<somiaj>yea, dmo makes poor quality packages, using epochs like they did is just bad policy
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19:54<somiaj>well hopefully you are in a sane state now, and dmo just really isn't needed anymore, the multimedia packages in debian should play almost anything.
19:55<somiaj>also since this appears to be a desktop and bullseye is almost ready to be released, should upgrade to buster, and in the next few months consider upgrading to bullseye just so you don't have to deal with this for 3-5 more years
19:56<somiaj>well ~3 for desktop, but you can get a bit longer out of lts if you don't mind out of date browsers, which is usually bad policy
19:59<pgimeno_>I think the buster upgrade is going to be much smoother now, if I didn't do this cleanup before getting there I would be suffering it again
19:59<somiaj>Yup, which is why is suggested it. Though I would have avoided reinstall kde (desktops are just big and might as well wait until your final goal to reinstall)
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20:07<pgimeno_>well, my thought is that upgrading configuration files by two versions might also not be supported by the software, so it was better to run everything important at least once before the next step
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22:32<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): or | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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23:53<archivist>i installed kde full, but still have the default desktop. how do i specify properly?
23:54<sney>you have to choose it from your display manager login
23:55<sney>in gdm there is a little menu next to the login button when you enter your password
23:58<archivist>how do i get to gdm?
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---Logclosed Mon May 17 00:00:48 2021