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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-05-24

---Logopened Mon May 24 00:00:31 2021
---Daychanged Mon May 24 2021
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01:30<qrpnxz>hey how can i get a list of all packages installed from a source?
01:34<twb>qrpnxz: that's fiddly and annoying
01:34<twb>qrpnxz: aptitude search '?narrow(?installed, ?not(?archive(^testing$)))' --display-format="%c%a%M %p %Z %t %v %V" # what packages are *currently* installed from unstable?
01:34<twb>qrpnxz: ^ that's a recipe I have
01:34<twb>there's "archive" and "origin" but getting the query you want takes several attempts
01:35<twb>You can also try the simple "aptitude search ?obsolete"
01:35<qrpnxz>oh boy, feel like it would be easier to run `apt policy` on everything installed than figure out aptitudes special syntax xD
01:35<twb>?narrow(?installed, XXX) means to ignore things that aren't installed
01:36<twb>so e.g. if you have installed frobozz=1.0-1 and there is frobozz=2.0-1 in unstable, it will not consider the latter
01:36<qrpnxz>ah ok, guess i can just put ?archive(^whatiwant$) in the XXX then
01:36<qrpnxz>i'll try it
01:36<twb>Then it's just doing a regex search on the Archive: field of... something
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01:38<qrpnxz>oh this is not gonna work for me, testing and unstable share too many packages
01:38<twb>hence ?narrow
01:38<qrpnxz>oh wait
01:38<qrpnxz>i see why you have the not
01:39<qrpnxz>mm, nope, didn't help
01:39<twb>Also be aware you might run into "testing" vs. "bullseye" and "testing" vs "testing/updates" and crap like that
01:39<twb>It always takes me many guesses
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01:45<twb>Hrm, that's weird. GNOME Boxes, when I close it, normally suspend-to-disk's all the VMs. This time, it left them running.
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01:47<qrpnxz>this got it to a browsable list `apt list --installed | tail -n+2 | awk 'BEGIN { FS = "/" }; { print $1 }' | xargs apt policy | rg -C5 '^ [0-9]' | less`
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01:49<twb>I'm not sure what that's supposed to output, but it seems to output a lot of garbage for me
01:50<twb>e.g. http://ix.io/3nI0
01:51<twb>I didn't know about tail +2 tho, that's interesting. I've always just done "sed $d | sed $d"
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01:51<qrpnxz>tail -n+2 will skip the first line and stream the rest
01:51<twb>Oh wait, you're deleting the FIRST two lines.
01:52<qrpnxz>no just the first :)
01:52<twb>sed 1d
01:52<qrpnxz>+2 means start at the second
01:52<qrpnxz>sed 1d sounds good too
01:52<twb>Also awk -F/
01:53<twb>I get lines like this: "a2ps/unstable,testing,now 1:4.14-7 amd64 [installed,automatic]"
01:53<twb>So a 90% right answer would be "grep -vFw testing"
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01:54<twb>http://ix.io/3nI1 my query http://ix.io/3nI2 apt list --installed|grep -vFw testing
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01:56<somiaj>any thoughts on why rsync is giving me this error (trying to do a sync and it won't delete old files), rsync: [generator] delete_file: make_backup(path/to/file) failed: Permission denied (13)
01:57<somiaj>Oh could it be the make_backup, and the backupdir cannot create that nested path?
01:57<qrpnxz>everything in my system is on testing, and most everything from testing is also on stable, so these are not helpful to me, i have to do that whitespace jank to highlight the interesting ones
01:58<somiaj>yup that was exactly it, sometimes it takes speaking outloud to figure out the issue.
01:58<twb>qrpnxz: maybe I miss the point
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01:59<qrpnxz>i want to find which packages are tracking unstable, i can't just search unstable because unstable and testing share too much, i use that whitespace regex so it shows me packages in which they differ then i can see which i'm tracking
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02:00<twb>"tracking unstable" as opposed to "currently installed from unstable" ?
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02:01<qrpnxz>no, either is fine
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02:01<twb>I *think* if you install foo from unstable and it's version 1.0-1, and then later 1.0-1 migrates to testing, then you stop "tracking" unstable implicitly
02:02<qrpnxz>depend on your weights. Looks like my system is clean. Just wanted to check this so i could remove sid from my sources.list because they take up a lot of time
02:02<qrpnxz>on updates
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02:04<twb>If you have a NAS I recommend installing apt-cacher-ng on it
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02:05<twb>and auto-apt-proxy or squid-deb-proxy-client to auto-discover it
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02:05<twb>That is, if you have >>1 host
02:05<twb>if you only have 2 computers, probably not worth it
02:10<peace>Why would the linux kernel recognize a USB device when it's a.) removed from and then b.) re-plugged back into a port, but not when the computer is rebooted while the USB device is plugged in?
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02:19<twb>peace: xHCI, or older?
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02:21<peace>twb: I don't know, but it is not a new computer.
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03:01<shrew>installing on a raid of encrypted disks really doesn't go as expected.. first i had to wrangle the partitioner and now grub fails to install..
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03:03<shrew>ah, and after opening and closing the partitioner the grub install even refuses to start because partitioning supposedly isn't done yet..
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03:18<twb>Can gnome3 (on wayland) screenshot a single window instead of the entire desktop?
03:19<twb>It seems like the sort of thing that would be Ctrl+PrtScr or something, and you have to Just Know that
03:19<twb>For the last 20 years I've used "gm import foo.png" but that's Xorg
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03:22<somiaj>twb: I just use scrot
03:22<twb>bleh
03:22<somiaj>though does scrot not work on wayland?
03:22<twb>somiaj: AIUI only the compostor is allowed to make screenshots
03:22<twb>i.e. gnome-shell
03:22<somiaj>Yea, I keep forgetting about wayland doing things differently, so use to xorg tools
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03:32<ratrace>differently and for the better :)
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03:33<somiaj>,i gnome-screenshot
03:33<judd>Package gnome-screenshot (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: screenshot application for GNOME. Version: 3.30.0-2; Size: 167.5k; Installed: 1152k; Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Attic/GnomeUtils; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/gnome-screenshot
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03:34<somiaj>seems that can grab the whole screen, a particular window, or an rectangle. I would expect that would work with waylend since it is gnome.
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03:34<ratrace>and speaking of COMPOSTors, libx11 DSA heads up...
03:35<somiaj>twb: ^^ gnome-screenshot
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04:06<twb>somiaj: that appears to be what prtscr runs
04:06<twb>gnome-screeshow --window
04:06<twb>...is what I want, I think
04:07<twb>Except confusingly, that just flashes and acts like it took a screenshot without asking which window
04:07<somiaj>I think it is 'current window'
04:07<twb>Oh it just grabs the focused window
04:07<twb>Bit crap if you have modal popup
04:07<somiaj>gnome-screenshot -i brings up a gui you can select things with
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04:08<twb>Ah good to know
04:09*twb goes back to fixing mission-critical server
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04:09<somiaj>hmm, seems it can only work on active window, which is odd, though I guess gnome-screenshot -w -d 5, gives you 5 seconds to choose the active window
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04:43<jmcnaught>twb: Alt+PrintScreen to screenshot a single window
04:44<twb>jmcnaught: fantastic, that was the magic I originally asked for :-)
04:44<azeem>wow cool
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07:49<shreeya>Hi
07:50<Avocato>Hi
07:50<shreeya>I need some help related to firmware updation for hid-i2c based touchscreen driver
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07:52<petn-randall>shreeya: Feel free to ask. If someone here knows the answer, they'll respond.
07:53<shreeya>Okay
07:58<twb>shreeya: are you using "fwupdmgr update" ?
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07:58<shreeya>Here's some background: Currently my touchscreen hardware is using hid-multitouch driver and generic hid-i2c driver for communication. The problem is that vendor hasn't provided any way to update the firmware. Then I found these scripts provided by chromeOS https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/touch_updater/+/refs/heads/main/scripts/
07:58<shreeya>They are some hid-i2c firmware update scripts which I think can be used in my case. But I am not sure how to use these for debian system.
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07:59<twb>This is a chromebook?
08:00<shreeya>these scripts are for chromebook maybe
08:00<twb>I mean the hardware
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08:00<shreeya>No
08:00<twb>The thing that if you pick it up and throw it and your dad, what is it called
08:01<shreeya>Sorry?
08:01<shreeya>I didn't get you
08:02<petn-randall>shreeya: I think twb is asking about what hardware *you* have.
08:02<twb>Like is it an Acer C720 laptop
08:02<twb>petn-randall: right
08:03<shreeya>I wouldn't be able to give details about the hardware due to confidentiality reason
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08:08<petn-randall>shreeya: Ah, then it's quite difficult to help you, if we don't even know which hardware you're trying to update. You probably want to ask your HW support vendor then.
08:08<Avocato>shreeya: I don't think that the hardware is *that* unique..
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08:11<twb>Probably a nerve-stapler or other civic compliance device.
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08:13<shreeya>petn-randall: Avocato: sorry about that. Let me see what I can do and might get back to you.
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08:23<ratrace>do I need to install any special packag, like aspell-<language> or whatev for libreoffice to spellcheck non-english text? I can select french in the document options, but it doesn't check spelling...
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08:24<twb>ratrace: yes
08:24<twb>ratrace: I think the package name has libreoffice in it...
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08:25<twb>otherwise it's myspell-xx or hunspell-xx
08:25<ratrace>I thought it was using aspell
08:25<twb>"Spelling dictionaries, hyphenation patterns, thesauri and help are not included in this package. There are some available in separate packages (myspell-*, hyphen-*, mythes-*, libreoffice-help-*)"
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08:25<twb>So yeah you want hyphen-XX and myspell-XX
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08:26<ratrace>but not libreoffice-l10n-<language>, that's for the UI, right?
08:26<twb>I was thinking of "hyphen-xx" which is provided by Source Package: libreoffice-dictionaries
08:26<twb>ratrace: for spell checking, you DEFINITELY want myspell-fr
08:27<twb>ratrace: libreoffice-l10n-fr I think is changing all the menu and toolbar labels
08:31<ratrace>twb: thanks, myspqll-fr which pulled in hunspell-fr was it.
08:31<twb>ratrace: ah!
08:31<twb>ratrace: I thought hunspell was the correct thing, I guess the comment I copy-pasted was old
08:32<twb>ratrace: in general, ispell->aspell and ispell->myspell->hunspell
08:32<twb>ratrace: so hunspell is newest/best
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08:40<ratrace>noted, thanks.
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10:32<scorpion2185[m]>failed with result exit-code
10:32<scorpion2185[m]>failed to start lightdm
10:32<scorpion2185[m]>triggerign on failure:dependencies
10:34<scorpion2185[m]>After I used sddm I can0t lock the screen with gdm3.
10:35<petn-randall>Yes, only one dm can run at the same time.
10:35<scorpion2185[m]>If I set lightdm it won't start
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10:43<keycollector>Anyone know a good 4k webcam that will work well on debian?
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10:46<FLD>you'll need a video camera for good 4k. webcams can barely do good 1080p
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10:48<somiaj>maybe a gopro?
10:50<keycollector>Yeah.. might go that route, atleast then id know it be a good camera and easy to mount
10:50<FLD>that's probably the best 4k you gonna get in that small form factor, but i don't know if it works very well on debian?
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10:51<somiaj>I belive the newest gopro can work as a webcam and should use the standard protcol (haven't tested) and copying videos from it should work on any os
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10:51<somiaj>Though it depensd, are you wanting to stream or just record and edit good videos?
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10:53<somiaj>hmm, guess I was being overly hopeful here, though seems someone has tried to write some scripts.
10:53<somiaj>https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/4p0yrn/gopro_tool_for_linux/ -- though this is 4 years old, could be things have improved
10:53<keycollector>I have an meeting this friday, i need to install the zoom rootkit on my computer and have a webconvernce. Need hardware for video
10:53<Redentor>Check this moderm camara review with linux https://youtu.be/QRO6npche9M
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10:54<somiaj>keycollector: do you have a smartphone?
10:55<keycollector>I do, i thought about doing it with it.
10:55<somiaj>when I went remote and had to use zoom, work provided me an ipad which I used for zoom, and some of my collegues just used their smart phone
10:56<FLD>just get any popular webcam off amazon and it should work as a standard UVC usb camera for conferencing
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10:58<somiaj>I'm personally using the logitech C920x, and it works just fine
10:58<somiaj>though it isn't 4k
10:58<somiaj>It is one of the more popular streaming camearas
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11:03<greenbeard>Hi folks - is this an okay place to ask about gnome-control-center on bullseye?
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11:04<somiaj>greenbeard: what is your question?
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11:08<somiaj>greenbeard: usually this channel is for debian stable, but with the release of bullseye soon, it is close enough.
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12:10<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: I recall talking about this yesterday. Did you collect the logs of it failing to start yet?
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12:36<Guest4777>msg
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12:36<jmcnaught>Guest4777: /exit
12:36<Guest4777>thank you
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12:48<Konomi>is it possible to do bug reports for backports?
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12:52<petn-randall>Konomi: If it's specific to the backport, it's usually better to send a mail to the backports mailing list.
12:52<Konomi>petn-randall: ty
12:52<Konomi>freeze is close so not bothering now but I wanted to know for the future
12:53<Avocato>Is bullseye already frozen?
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12:55<petn-randall>Avocato: Yes, since January.
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13:00<Konomi>another question backports pins at 100 by default to allow you to selectively install packages but if you pinned backports to the same as stable so you could just have all of backport packages by default is that "supported" ?
13:02<jhutchins>Konomi: Specifically not.
13:02<jmcnaught>Konomi: the backports page itself recommends using backports packages selectively, not all available backports https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
13:02<Konomi>so how many packages from backports can I install before my system is unsupported?
13:03<jhutchins>Konomi: As many as it takes to break something.
13:03<jmcnaught>There's no line, just use with care
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13:03<Avocato>petn-randall: Nice. I know it's not marked as stable yet, but I could upgrade my test machine to bullseye :)
13:03<jhutchins>Konomi: You should install specific packages to meet specific needs, not just grab things because they have bigger version numbers.
13:05<jhutchins>Avocato: You should be aware that the freeze is when they work on serious problems that break the whole syste, and that security updates are not a priority for testing.
13:05<jhutchins>system.
13:05<Avocato>jhutchins: That's why I said "test machine"..
13:05<Konomi>if I did install a lot of packages from backports would I be told to go away like people who mix stable and testing?
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13:07<jhutchins>Konomi: We're not out to punish people, but the more backports you install the fewer people will know about how they interact.
13:07<jmcnaught>If you were having a bug that nobody else could reproduce and had done something like "apt -t buster-backports upgrade" then it might be reasonable to tell you to try on a stock buster system
13:07<jhutchins>Konomi: The recommendation is to not install backports just because they're "newer", but only because the backport does something specific that you need.
13:08<Konomi>sorry I'm just trying to get a clear picture of what is supported and what isn't it's never really been clear to me
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13:10<jhutchins>Konomi: Nothing is "officially" supported - we're just fellow users. Our pooled knowledge tends toward simple defaults and stable packages.
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13:10<jhutchins>Konomi: Nobody is going to look at your version numbers and judge you by how big they are.
13:10<ben>apt -t backports upgrade sounds scary
13:11<Konomi>thanks like I said I was just curious
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13:11<Konomi>ben: I know people who do it that's why I asked
13:11<jmcnaught>Konomi: if you want to use that many backports maybe just upgrade to bullseye/testing? It's in pretty good shape right now I think.
13:11<ben>i do install plenty of things from backports though :)
13:11<ben>i should clone this vm and test it out
13:12<Konomi>I avoid testing for my server as it's not stable
13:12<Konomi>I had to get znc from backports though for security reasons
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13:12<ben>ejabberd from backports is usually at the current release which is much appreciated
13:13<jhutchins>Konomi: I doubt there are any security issues that are addressed in backports but not patched in stable.
13:13<jmcnaught>https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/znc
13:13<Konomi>I've been a long time user of debian I've just always been a bit confused what consitutes a "FrankenDebian" and what doesn't
13:13<jhutchins>Konomi: That is not how Debian handles security.
13:14<jhutchins>Konomi: That usually referrs to either installing testing/unstable packages on stable, or installing third-party packages.
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13:16<jhutchins>Konomi: I would say if you want to play with newer versions, go with a dual-boot or VM of testing, with a solid default stable available if you actually need the computer to work.
13:16<Konomi>oh I already do that it was more a question about policy
13:18<jhutchins>Konomi: Like I said, we're just fellow users. If somebody starts going on and on about problems with a system that's not standard/stable, we're likely to discourage them from flooding the channel.
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13:20<jhutchins>Konomi: There was someon on freenode/#debian this weekend who has added all the bells and whistles - MDRaid, lvm, luks - and didn't pay attention to what he was doing, and now he's taken hours of channel time trying to track down all the problems he's caused himself. That kind of thing gets old, but mostly people will just /ignore you if you go on too long.
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13:22<jhutchins>Konomi: This isn't #centos though, you're not going to get kicked for asking the wrong questions.
13:22<Konomi>they kick people >.>
13:23<jhutchins>I asked too many questions about package building. At some point the attitude is you should pay RedHat for that level of support.
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13:23<Konomi>good thing centos isn't the only distro out there then
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13:24<jhutchins>Yeah. I think we've drifted a bit off the support topic, time to wrap it up.
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13:24<Konomi>all fine thanks for the input
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15:27<peace>Is there a package that re-scans USB buses after booting to find USB devices plugged into hubs that were too slow to be recognized while booting?
15:30<peter1138>udevadm trigger perhaps
15:31<peter1138>(but i suspect probably not)
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15:34<peter1138>Is there a Debian-way to set bridge vlan?
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15:36<somiaj>peter1138: you can set this up in /etc/network/interfaces
15:36<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections
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15:39<peter1138>The vlan information on that page is a bit terse, but also it's to do the "old way" which uses a separate bridge for every vlan.
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15:42<somiaj>I was thinking that the info about configuring /etc/network/interfaces would probably work with either real or virtual lans.
15:42<somiaj>though not something I do, I susepct it is possible
15:42<somiaj>note you could always use pre-up, post-up scripts if needing to do things that can't be done directly in the interfaces file.
15:43<peter1138>Yup, that's my "if there's no debian-way"-way :-)
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15:45<somiaj>I suspect the interfaces file can do it, but this is out of my experience. There is always the try and see way (though maybe someone with more knowledge than I will chime in)
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15:52<Rubin>help identify
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15:52*sney hands Rubin a '/msg nickserv'
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15:54<Rubin>ya ya too many things going on at once today
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15:56<grawity>peace: that seems like an odd problem; somewhat of "that's not how it works to begin with" feeling
15:56<grawity>peace: is the system failing to recognize the hub itself, or stuff that's connected through it?
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15:58<peace>The system fails to recognize the combination of both a USB thumb drive and dongle at boot time.
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15:58<peace>The "dongle" is a USB security firewall called "USG".
15:59<somiaj>peace: and even after boot does 'lsusb' not show them?
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15:59<peace>somiaj, I don't know.
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16:00<somiaj>It does seem odd, I would debug it a bit, see if you can figure out if the machine sees them on the bus at all via 'lsusb' and then if it is just the kernel not seeing it, does unpluging and pluging in after boot cause an event to be recongized type thing
16:00<somiaj>but if after boot 'lsusb' doesn't return them, then they are not showing up on the usb bus at all
16:01<peace>somiaj, Yes, unplugging the USB devices and plugging them back in causes them to be recognized.
16:02<somiaj>I would see if lsbusb sees them, because if it doen'st this could mean that your hardware isn't registering the devices until the replug event
16:03<somiaj>(before you unplug them right after boot and they aren't working)
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16:06<peace>somiaj, OK, if by "lsbusb" you meant "lsusb". If that doesn't work, I'd like to learn how to trigger a replug event in software, without touching the hardware and USB.
16:07<somiaj>peace: yea if your hardware isn't recoginizing devices on boot, unsure what is going on there.
16:07<somiaj>Is this a desktop or laptop?
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16:10<peace>It is a desktop.
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16:12<Sqrt{not}>peace, have you examined "dmesg | grep usb" to see the details of what is happening at boot?
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16:15<peace>Sqrt{not}, Not yet.
16:16<Sqrt{not}>peace, I recommend trying it
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16:20<peace>grawity, somiaj and Sqrt{not}, Thank you.
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16:32<Sqrt{not}>peace, if any parts of that dmesg output are interesting or unexpected (and not secret somehow) you could share them with us via a pastebin.
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17:22<RoyK>it'd be rather nice if lsblk could catch up with devices used by zfs
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17:24<ratrace>RoyK: ?
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17:39<RoyK>ratrace: ?
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17:43<Somelauw>I need help. I'm afraid I might have broken something. I get https://www.paste.in/8EEDIf
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17:45<somiaj>Somelauw: are you using a custom kernel?
17:46<Somelauw>Linux laurent-laptop 5.10.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.19-1 (2021-03-02) x86_64 GNU/Linux
17:47<somiaj>that still doesn't answer the question, did you recompile your own custom kernel?
17:47<Somelauw>no, i didn't
17:47<somiaj>Maybe try to reinstall the linux-headers package
17:47<somiaj>I also note that kernel is out dated, what version of debian are you running?
17:47<somiaj>,kernels
17:47<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
17:47<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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17:48<Somelauw>Debian Gnu\Linux 11
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17:51<somiaj>your kernel is out dated, be sure to keep up to date, current kernel is -6 (not -4).
17:51<Somelauw>I'm unable to reinstall my linux headers. I get https://www.paste.in/LFsRl3
17:51<Somelauw>but I just did sudo apt update?
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17:52<Somelauw>so how can i not be up to date?
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17:52<somiaj>You might need to remove the headers for the 5.10.0-4-amd64 kernel that is erring out
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17:52<Somelauw>anyway, what happens if I don't fix this. Will I still be able to reboot?
17:52<somiaj>All you should be missing is your wifi drivers
17:53<Somelauw>i can still use internet from connected cable
17:53<somiaj>but anyways, remove the linux-headers-5.10.0-4-amd64 and linux-headers-5.10.0-4-common, then see if you can get things to install and build the module against the -6 kernel which you now seem to have installed
17:53<ratrace>RoyK: what do you mean, lsblk does understand zfs_member
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17:55<Somelauw>ok, I think that helped
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17:55<Somelauw>thanks
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17:55<somiaj>Somelauw: I'm not sure what happened to those packages, something broke, but since they are outdated, removing them should help you
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18:06<hendursaga>I can't wait for Bullseye to be released, I think I'm annoying some of my co-workers talking about it, lol
18:08<somiaj>Soon!! (I'm hoping for June, Maybe early July)
18:09<hendursaga>I'm gonna setup Sway when I upgrade, to see what these tiling WMs are all about
18:09<hendursaga>Does it limit the usefulness a lot if you have a small screen, though?
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18:17<choozy>Ah
18:17<choozy>I was also guessing around July
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18:20<somiaj>I heard that June is an informal goal, but a lot depends on how much support they get with the installer, testing and patches
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18:25<ratrace>ho ho ho! what was that bullseye release date poll, I might be winning it
18:27<FLHerne>hendursaga: Quite the opposite, I found tiling WMs a godsend on a small screen
18:27<FLHerne>(xmonad and then dwm)
18:27<FLHerne>Whereas on my big desktop screen, I find conventional click-and-drag window positioning works better
18:28<ratrace>I <3 i3-wm.
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18:42<hendursaga>FLHerne: Interesting - how many "tabs" do you have open at one point in time? Like, the max?
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18:43<FLHerne>On my little 12" laptop? about 3
18:43<FLHerne>but usually 1 or 2
18:44<FLHerne>but not having window decorations, taskbar, etc frees up a lot of space
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18:44<FLHerne>(I have many more windows open, but with different tags)
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18:47<FLHerne>It means I can flip between "I want to see this and that" "just this fullscreen now" "that and the other thing" very quickly
18:49<FLHerne>So it's not about arranging many windows onscreen at the same time, but that I can pick out the subset I want to look at at any given instant
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18:59<hendursaga>OK. Well, some tasks I would've really liked to have 5-8 tabs open at once.
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19:02<FLHerne>There's nothing stopping you doing that, I just don't have a big enough display for 5-8 middling-size windows and rarely have a usecase for tiny ones
19:03<FLHerne>Sometimes I have one big window plus many tiny ttys
19:03<FLHerne>Just to keep an eye on whatever background processes
19:03<FLHerne>or tailed logs or whatever
19:03<tidux>Are there any issues installing on a Ryzen 2500U APU? I know at one point there were problems with Ryzen on stock Debian kernels.
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19:31<somiaj>tidux: Often this is related to the kernel version. Debian buster (current stable) still uses 4.19 which is a bit old, so might not support that. You can get a newer kernel 5.10 from backports (But installers won't have them).
19:32<somiaj>tidux: Debian bullseye which should be released in the next couple of months has the 5.10 kernel, and supports newer hardware. So if you know what linux kernel supports that APU compare it to the kernel version in debian.
19:32<somiaj>tidux: if you want to try, the bullseye rc1 installer is out and ready to test, and bullseye is pretty much ready to go.
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20:49<twb>You can get testing/unstable/daily install media if you know what you're doing
20:50<twb>unless you're an expert, easier to install stable from stable install media, then upgrade
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20:58<somiaj>that is usually the case, but with the release so close, there is a rc1 installer for that. It worked fine for my test
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21:37<tidux>somiaj: I was planning on running 5.x from backports in any case, just wondering if 4.19 was stable enough to get through the installer
21:39<somiaj>Unsure, you can always try
21:39<somiaj>though with bullseye so close, I would consider just running that
21:40<somiaj>it is what I'm running on my ryzen 7, though it doesn't include the gpu
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21:59<sappheiros>what are the three biggest ways someone can help debian?
21:59<sney>!how can i help
21:59<dpkg>Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. https://debian.org/intro/help
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22:01<sappheiros>lol step 1 search Internet, step 2 !dpkg, step 3 ask debian ...
22:01<tidux>somiaj: well that might work too depending on how soon this hardware ships, 5.10 should work just fine with Ryzen 2XXX
22:01<tidux>I've used that kernel on my 2700X
22:01<tidux>thanks
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22:04<sappheiros>how are the documentation project and wiki different? like for wikipedia the wiki *is* their documentation project. it seems redundant
22:04<sney>documentation is not only on one website
22:05<sney>there is a lot of overlap, of course, but on a *nix system the majority of useful documentation is via man pages and other content in /usr/share/doc
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22:13<ryouma>man pages sometims point to info pages for more detail
22:14<ryouma>like tar goes into great detail about race conditions and such
22:14<ryouma>find*
22:15<sney>man is good for usage, info is good for finding out why
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22:25<sappheiros>i find myself agreeing with Python "there should be only one obvious and good way to do something", however that saying goes -- i'm getting frustrated not being sure whether to try man or info or both
22:26<sappheiros>so again seeing both a 'wiki' and a 'documentation project' that apparently are not the same thing -- seems the wiki should be the documentation project ...
22:28<_zxq9_>Paring down to a single way to do something that is obviously correct is an underappreciated superpower. (Underappreciated to the point that Python has abandoned it somewhat recently.)
22:28<_zxq9_>Docs can get... hm. That's a hard one when wikis and docs are both involved. man vs info is less tricky to figure out.
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22:29<ryouma>sappheiros: debian dtrt by pointing to info from man. i have herad other distros do not. unfortunately some prorams do not hve info. the wiki alo exists but it assumes you have web access unless you want to dl the whole thing frequently. i like the one obvciously right thing idea too. :) but jut borrow the arch wiki. :)
22:30<sappheiros>dtrt?
22:31<ryouma>if you can set it tup to use info if info exists otherwise man that would be Doing The Right Thing
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22:33<k-man>I've made myself a little script to capture a screenshot and open it in gimp. is there some way i can get this to run from a keyboard shortcut in gnome? the script is: filename=/home/jason/Pictures/"Screenshot from $(date -Is).png" && gnome-screenshot -d 3 -w -f "$filename" && gimp "$filename"
22:34<sarnold>sappheiros: "does the right thing"
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22:35<sarnold>most folks I talk with seem to detest info with a passion. there's other viewers that can sometimes help, but hte best advice I've seen so far is to pipe it into less (yes, really) -- compare "info grub | less" to "info grub"
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22:37<ryouma>yes, that works. i used to dislike info a lot too. then i learned a few commands for it and realized you can search the entire manual just like with man.
22:37<ryouma>(not proselytizing; i know a lot of folk don't like it and that is ok.)
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22:49<sappheiros>cool thanks. what do you mean 'borrow the arch wiki'?
22:51<ryouma>it was a joke. the arch distro's wiki is widely praised, although it is not the same distro so you have to ignore arch-specific stuff and you won't find debian-specific stuff.
22:51<_zxq9_>sappheiros: For really complex things info is great -- it's like a website you can navigate in isolation and really get to the bottom of something with. man is just the Right Way when it comes to documenting how to invoke a thing, though, but you don't need to explain its internals or write a *guide* to it.
22:51<sappheiros>ryouma, you spoke as if man points to info by default, but 'man grub' turns an error so that's apparently not true
22:52<_zxq9_>The Archa and Gentoo wikis are treasure troves of knowledge on all kinds of things.
22:52<sappheiros>okay, thanks
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22:52<ryouma>sappheiros: do a man on find and you will get "SEE ALSO locate(1), locatedb(5), updatedb(1), xargs(1), chmod(1), fnmatch(3), regex(7), stat(2), lstat(2), ls(1), printf(3), strftime(3), ctime(3) The full documentation for find is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info and find programs are properly installed at your site, the command info find should give you access to the complete manual. " i belie
22:52<ryouma>ve this is a debianism to have that pointer to the info manual.
22:52<sappheiros>is debian arch gentoo like strawberry vanilla chocolate flavors?
22:52<ryouma>kinda
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22:53<ryouma>different collections of stuff and duct tape
22:53<ryouma>and arch wiki is rather good i find. the thing is, programs come with their own documentation and scripts and stuff, and so that exists too.
22:54<ryouma>arch gentoo debian are all community distros and have big repos i think
22:54<ryouma>lots of stuff is based on debian
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22:56<ryouma>so basicalloy you will have a tough time finding one source of information. if you can figure out automating that stuff better, go for it.
22:56<ryouma>i was referring to /usr/share/doc above
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23:13-!-ChromaCat248 is "realname" on #moocows #virt #qemu #oftc #linux #debian #C #lowRISC
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23:15-!-Redentor [~armando@2600:3c01:e000:20c:26a:b4b9:9a0e:e249] has joined #debian
23:15-!-Redentor is "realname" on #linode #debian-next #debian-es #debian-mx #debian
23:17-!-ChromaCat248 [~ChromaCat@2603-6080-a200-eb3f-0000-3d87-0900-ec83.res6.spectrum.com] has joined #debian
23:17-!-ChromaCat248 is "realname" on #moocows #virt #qemu #oftc #linux #debian #C #lowRISC
23:17-!-netx [~netx@23-24-2-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:17-!-thiras [~thiras@24.133.81.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20-!-sappheiros [~sappheiro@0002b3dd.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: please pray for me]
23:20-!-Despatche [~hide@72.11.37.193] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by deer]
23:22-!-magyar [~magyar@00015973.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:22-!-FDubs [~quassel@2a01:c22:d09b:2800:77f4:fb01:b48c:4eb9] has joined #debian
23:22-!-FDubs is "FDubs" on #debian
23:23-!-FDubs [~quassel@2a01:c22:d09b:2800:77f4:fb01:b48c:4eb9] has quit []
23:24-!-Redentor [~armando@2600:3c01:e000:20c:26a:b4b9:9a0e:e249] has quit []
23:28-!-klysm is now known as klysmo
23:29-!-awal1 [~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-20-70-55-157-23.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
23:29-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian
23:31-!-blue__penquin [2e138d54@107.161.19.109] has joined #debian
23:31-!-blue__penquin is "[https://kiwiirc.com] blue__penquin" on #debian
23:32-!-blue__penquin is now known as Guest4818
23:34-!-Guest4818 [2e138d54@107.161.19.109] has quit []
23:34-!-andy [~andy@111.22.41.29] has joined #debian
23:34-!-andy is "LCPA" on #debian
23:34-!-klysm is "Mdasoh Kyaeppd" on #perl #qemu #momo #debian-next #demoscene #OpenBSD #libk #sysvinit #church.of.j.christ #of.j.christ #j.christ #jesuschrist #churchofjesuschrist ##deb-next ##debs ##deb-based ##debian-based #deb-next #debs #deb-based #debian-based ##deb
23:34-!-klysm [~mdasoh@show.op8.us] has joined #debian
23:36-!-daesu [~daesu@210.105.41.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:36<andy>clear
23:39-!-seeS__ [~quassel@1.145.42.164] has joined #debian
23:39-!-seeS__ is "Craig" on #debian
23:40-!-seeS_ [~quassel@1.145.42.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:41<andy>都不出声的吗?
23:41-!-wololoer [~user@00022ff6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1]
23:42-!-newtons [~newtons@2a02:120b:2c42:7650:6e62:6dff:fe05:e12d] has joined #debian
23:42-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
23:42<jmcnaught>!cn
23:42<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!- debian-chinese-big5@lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
23:45-!-masagin99 [~MasaginXX@9J5AABWKG.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:45-!-masagin99 is "http://veqjecw2zipaqayw.onion/undercut-reassure" on #debian #freedombox #moocows #zcash #area31 #bfh-linux-users ##linux #linux #monero #cryptoparty #guardianproject
23:45-!-andy [~andy@111.22.41.29] has left #debian [离开]
23:57-!-newtons [~newtons@2a02:120b:2c42:7650:6e62:6dff:fe05:e12d] has quit []
23:58-!-seeS__ [~quassel@1.145.42.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
---Logclosed Tue May 25 00:00:01 2021