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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-05-31

---Logopened Mon May 31 00:00:08 2021
00:02-!-zebrag [~inkbottle@00027865.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:02-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:761b:dd83:9b43:bc40] has joined #debian
00:02-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #packaging #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-meeting
00:03-!-benchdoxie [~AdminUser@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
00:03-!-Schproodle [~jack@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
00:03-!-Schproodle is "jack" on #debian
00:04-!-benchdoxie [~quassel@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:04-!-benchdoxie is "Bob" on #debian
00:04-!-benchdoxie [~quassel@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
00:04-!-benchdoxie is "Bob" on #debian
00:04-!-benchdoxie [~quassel@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:04-!-Schproodle [~jack@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1]
00:05-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:05-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:07-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:07-!-benchdoxie [~quassel@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
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00:07-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has joined #debian
00:07-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
00:08-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:08-!-Redent0r [~armando@189.202.79.237.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #debian
00:08-!-Redent0r is "realname" on #debian #debian-mx #debian-next #linode
00:08-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
00:08-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has joined #debian
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00:08-!-Redentron [~armando@2600:3c01:e000:20c:26a:b4b9:9a0e:e249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:09-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has joined #debian
00:09-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
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00:16-!-karasu [~karasu@2a01:cb10:510:1b00:a0e6:c48b:c8b5:88de] has joined #debian
00:16-!-karasu is "realname" on #debian
00:17-!-seednode [~seednode@0002b892.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Nihil supernum.]
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00:18-!-seednode is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
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00:28-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian
00:28-!-RadoQ is now known as Guest282
00:28-!-RadoQ [~cheater@rzssh1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de] has joined #debian
00:28-!-RadoQ is "Rado Q" on #QuakeForge #debian
00:28-!-Guest282 [~cheater@rzssh1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:31-!-d4nk is "gnu" on #oftc
00:31-!-d4nk [~gnu@8VQAABCH6.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:32-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:c47d:53ca:bb12:c4c3] has joined #debian
00:32-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
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00:34-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
00:34-!-HksPL [~hks@host-49.32.191.64.net.hcetelecom.com] has joined #debian
00:34-!-HksPL is "Hks" on #virt #qemu #ovirt #oftc #moocows #llvm #linux #freedombox #ewg-staff #debian #ceph
00:34-!-nu-c__ [~nuc@mue-88-130-55-048.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:34-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
00:34-!-Schproodle is "Schproodle" on #debian
00:34-!-nu-c__ [~nuc@mue-88-130-55-048.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #debian
00:34-!-nu-c__ is "realname" on #debian
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00:35-!-HksPL [~hks@host-49.32.191.64.net.hcetelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:35-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
00:35-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:35-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
00:35-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has joined #debian
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00:37-!-karasu [~karasu@2a01:cb10:510:1b00:a0e6:c48b:c8b5:88de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:39-!-finsternis [~Y@00026e28.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has left #debian []
00:47-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
00:47-!-Schproodle is "Schproodle" on #debian
00:49-!-Redent0r [~armando@189.202.79.237.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:50-!-diogenes_oftc [~diogenes_@212.0.201.133] has joined #debian
00:50-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
00:50-!-Hks [~hks@host-49.32.191.64.net.hcetelecom.com] has joined #debian
00:50-!-Hks is "Hks" on #virt #qemu #ovirt #oftc #moocows #llvm #linux #freedombox @#ewg-staff #debian #ceph
00:52<Sqrt{not}>onastvar, sorry, I don't know about emergency mode
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00:54-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Schproodle]
00:54-!-nsuperbus_ [~nsuperbus@00019841.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:54-!-nsuperbus_ is "nsuperbus" on #oftc #C #debian #llvm
00:54-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
00:54-!-Schproodle is "Schproodle" on #debian
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00:58-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:58-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
00:59-!-benchdoxie [~reb@pool-108-5-58-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:59-!-benchdoxie is "Bob" on #debian
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00:59-!-nsuperbus_ is now known as nsuperbus
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01:00-!-freshtube is "realname" on #redditprivacy #debian
01:00-!-argentwolf [~argentwol@cpe-24-163-39-192.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
01:00-!-argentwolf is "cengelbrecht" on #linux #debian
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01:01-!-tzf is "realname" on #3hg #debian #debian-facile #nakedeb #debian-next
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01:03-!-ChromaCat248 is "realname" on #virt #qemu #oftc #moocows #linux #debian #C #
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01:05-!-Schproodle [~Thunderbi@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Schproodle]
01:08-!-tzf [~tyzef@202.153.80.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:08-!-Schproodle [~Kern@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
01:08-!-Schproodle is "Jack" on #debian
01:10-!-jj5_ [~jj5@139-218-130-78.sta.dodo.net.au] has joined #debian
01:10-!-jj5_ is "jj5" on #debian-next #freedombox-ci #freedombox #debian
01:10<onastvar>ok
01:11<onastvar>thank you sqrt
01:11-!-cthonic [~otho@c-73-35-118-124.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
01:11-!-cthonic is "realname" on #debian
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01:15-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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01:15-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian
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01:16-!-Schproodle001 is "Jack" on #debian
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01:19-!-cthonic is "realname" on #debian
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01:21-!-Schproodle is "Schproodle" on #debian
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01:27-!-plaur is "laur" on #debian
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01:29-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #qemu #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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01:29-!-ibx2496 is "realname" on #debian #linuxmint
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01:31-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian
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01:41-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-social #debian-xfce #openstreetmap #qemu #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev
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01:45-!-sorcerer is "nerds 4 life" on #debian-nerds #moocows #debian @#MXLinux
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01:50-!-nu-c__ is "realname" on #debian
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01:51-!-nu-c__ is "realname" on #debian
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01:53-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oolite #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #llvm #debian
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01:55-!-testi is "Dietrich Helexien" on #docker @#roccat #hardware @#xrdp #debian #debian-next
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02:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 901] by debhelper
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02:19-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
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02:19-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian
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02:20-!-seednode is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
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02:38-!-morningbreeze is "realname" on #debian
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02:40-!-sgn1 is "sgn" on #debian #oftc
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02:42-!-odnes is "realname" on #debian
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02:44-!-srgrint_ is "Simon Richard Grint" on #debian
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02:44-!-plaur is "laur" on #debian
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02:47-!-burrows is "burrows <burrows@burrows.cloud>" on #moocows #debian-next #debian
02:47<at0m>oh onastvar left.. one possible way to log in there would be to boot from live media, then chroot to the disk
02:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 907] by debhelper
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03:03-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #debian #llvm #openttd
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03:04-!-lonewulf` is "U-lonewulf-PC\lonewulf" on #linode #debian-offtopic #debian #oftc
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03:10<somiaj>at0m: I was thinking maybe emergency mode is in the initramfs and using a different passwd file.
03:11-!-Edhil [~edhil@000266d3.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:11-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian
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03:11-!-sca is "realname" on #debian
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03:12-!-cheapie is "cheapie" on #oftc #moocows #debian-next #debian
03:13-!-cheapie is now known as Guest291
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03:13<sca>Hello
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03:14-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
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03:20-!-lukaso666 is "lukaso666" on #debian
03:21-!-Guest291 is now known as cheapie
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03:29-!-arunpyasi is "realname" on #debian-ubuntu #debian #debian-deepin
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03:32-!-Iridos is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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03:34-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-social #debian-xfce #openstreetmap #qemu #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev
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03:35-!-gozer667 is "gozer667" on #debian
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04:35<webmind>Packages installed directly with 'apt install <name>' shouldn't get removed with autoremove right?
04:36<somiaj>correct
04:36<somiaj>you can also use apt-mark to toggle the auto install flag
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04:37<alex11>apt install foo will also (imo annoyingly) mark a package manually installed if it was installed automatically
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04:38<somiaj>the more common issue I see people run into is a dependcy issue remove some large meta package that pulled in a lot of packages then ends up removing way more than the the user wanted.
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04:40<ratrace>there's other exceptions too. "recommended", I think, won't get autoremoved, if you remove the package that pulled it in through "recommends" relationship
04:41<petn-randall>alex11: If you run `apt install foo`, then it *is* in fact installed manually (as you ran just that command), and not automatically as some kind of dependency.
04:42<alex11>i meant if it was already installed as part of another package
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04:42<alex11>if you install a and a pulls in b so b shows up in apt-mark showauto and you then later apt install b by accident not realizing it's already installed then b will be marked manual
04:42<alex11>which is kinda user hostile and i'd prefer that not to be the case but whatever
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04:59<ratrace>"user hostile"
04:59<ratrace>the computer did exactly what you wanted it to do.
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05:32<petn-randall>The current behaviour is exactly what I'd expect apt to do. If I install a package manually, I don't want it to get removed when I remove a package depending on it.
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05:42<tuiwang>I can't delete a directory under /tmp.I use lsattr command but there is no hide attribute.Anyone have ideas?
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05:50<petn-randall>tuiwang: What command are you running, and what error do you get?
05:51<tuiwang>rm -rf command I use.The error is "cannot remove xxx: operation not permitted"
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05:52<tuiwang>so weird problem
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05:54<tuiwang>rm: cannot remove 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01': Operation not permitted
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05:54<tuiwang>--------------e---- cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01
05:57<bentham>tuiwang: man chattr | grep -A1 " e "
05:58<bentham>The 'e' attribute indicates that the file is using extents for mapping the blocks on disk. It may not be removed using chattr(1).
05:59<tuiwang>bent
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06:00<tuiwang>bentham:The files can't be deleted by rm command,so weird.
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06:03<bentham>tuiwang: Yes, that is because it is usin extents for mapping the blocks on disk.
06:04<bentham>(apparently)
06:04<bentham>So you'll need something more powerful.
06:04<bentham>(to remove it)
06:04<tuiwang>what command I can use
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06:08<petn-randall>tuiwang: Please paste the complete command + output to https://paste.debian.net. It's also good to add `ls -l` there. I'm asking because single characters like quotes matter, which are unclear because you paraphrased the data.
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06:10<bentham>petn-randall: I assume tuiwang used 'lsattr'
06:10<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp/Terrence/root# ls -l 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01'
06:10<tuiwang>-rw------- 1 root root 0 May 31 18:07 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01'
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06:11<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp/Terrence/root# rm -rf 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01'
06:11<tuiwang>rm: cannot remove 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01': Operation not permitted
06:11<themill>permissions on the directory itself are important too
06:12<themill>and is that a readonly filesystem?
06:12<bentham>tuiwang: what does 'lsattr' (run in that directory) say about that file?
06:13<bentham>I believe that this is what you used to produce '--------------e----'
06:14<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp/Terrence/root# lsattr 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01'
06:14<tuiwang>--------------e---- cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01
06:14<bentham>yup.
06:14<tuiwang>themill: it is rw filesystem
06:14<bentham>I am not sure, but perhaps the 'unlink' command might help
06:14<tuiwang>The e flag matters?
06:14<bentham>yes. the 'e' flag is your problem.
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06:19<themill>tuiwang: all of the things that petn-randall asked would still be good to see (you've not actually done any of them)
06:20<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp/Terrence/root# unlink 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01'
06:20<tuiwang>unlink: cannot unlink 'cyberaddicted Terrence.ATTENTION!!! 2005-01-01': Operation not permitted
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06:22<themill>Also worth noting that this is EPERM not EACCESS.
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06:26<bentham>I would guess that some malicious user (attacker?) deliberately wanted to make things hard for the administrator of that system.
06:26<tuiwang>It's not likely to.It's my personal computer.
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06:28<bentham>Has it ever been compromised?
06:29<petn-randall>bentham: Why would the 'e' flag be a problem?
06:30<tuiwang>The e flag shouldn't matter.When I touch a empty file.It has the e flag and it can be deleted.
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06:31<tuiwang>So weird problem,never meet before.
06:32<themill>tuiwang: still haven't seen the output of "ls -l". Would also be good to see the output of "mount".
06:33<bentham>petn-randall: I interpreted 'e' to mean that it was specifying particular block locations on the disk, which I interpreted as a low-level directive. Maybe I'm wrong.
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06:33<bentham>tuiwang: you should answer themill
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06:33<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp# ls -l
06:33<tuiwang>total 2097924
06:33<tuiwang>drwx------ 3 root root 4096 May 31 16:28 Terrence
06:33<tuiwang>drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 31 16:36 pulse-PKdhtXMmr18n
06:33<tuiwang>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2147483648 Mar 5 22:32 swap.img
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06:33*petn-randall facepalms.
06:33<felco>haha
06:33<bentham>sigh.
06:34*themill pats debhelper
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06:34<bentham>by the way, what the heck is swap.img?
06:34<petn-randall>I'm guessing a swap file.
06:34<tarzeau>file swap.img would tell
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06:35<bentham>Sure, but what would produce that?
06:35<ratrace>in /tmp tho? wow
06:35<bentham>yea, odd
06:35<petn-randall>bentham: 'e' means the file is using extents, which is the default for ext4 filesystems. You'll have that on every file.
06:35<felco>swap file is default nowadays
06:35<ratrace>"default" by what?
06:35<felco>used to be a partition on the disk
06:35<themill>tuiwang: as petn-randall said, please use http://paste.debian.net/
06:35<petn-randall>tuiwang: Please use https://paste.debian.net as I said.
06:35<felco>the intaller
06:35<felco>installer
06:35<petn-randall>jinx
06:35<themill>!win petn-randall
06:35<dpkg>Congratulations, petn-randall! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
06:36<ratrace>felco: Bullseye's ?
06:36<bentham>petn-randall: ah, that is probably what he is doing; fair enough.
06:36<felco>actually i not using debian
06:36<felco>hehe
06:36<ratrace>awwwww.
06:36<ratrace>perhaps then don't get involved with misinformation.
06:36<petn-randall>felco: I'd be very surprised if that were the case, as you can't hibernate to a swap file.
06:37<tuiwang>The Terrence directory can't be deleted under /tmp.
06:37<felco>i pretty sure though
06:37<bentham>felco: maybe tuiwang isn't using debian either.
06:37<felco>i talking about the swap file thing
06:37<ratrace>swapfile is a novel thing in Linux, considering its age. Also not default in debian, also not supported by all filesystems.
06:37<themill>ratrace: novel?
06:37<felco>swap file is an old thing
06:38<tuiwang>I have using debian for 7 years since squeeze.
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06:38<felco>android gingerbread used a lot of swap file because of the low ram on devices
06:38<bentham>tuiwang: how old is the system with this problem? Is it an ext4 filesystem? When was it first created?
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06:39<tuiwang>root@leavethevirtualworld:/tmp# cat /etc/os-release
06:39<tuiwang>PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
06:39<tuiwang>NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
06:39<tuiwang>VERSION_ID="10"
06:39<tuiwang>VERSION="10 (buster)"
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06:39<felco>dude
06:39<felco>haha
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06:40<themill>tuiwang: you need to stop pasting things in here.
06:40<felco>you can safely delete the swap file if you have lots of ram
06:40<ratrace>themill: I guess I'm just old enough for it to be "novel" considering the userland support and entire age of linux. shiz, even "3.x" versioning change is "novel" to me :)
06:41<tuiwang>themill:that's true
06:41<bentham>tuiwang: use https://paste.debian.net/ and then send us a link
06:41<tuiwang>ok,I will do it.
06:42<felco>although, is nice to keep some swap file since the kernel may have some swapness enabled
06:42<ratrace>not just nice but a necessity: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/NoSwapConsequence
06:43<themill>ratrace: swapfiles have been around for 25 years. They've been just as fast as swap partitions for 10 years.
06:44<felco>while that is true, in pratice 2gb of swap file may be too much
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06:44<felco>if you have disk swap dont touch it, its not that big
06:44<tuiwang>swapfiles are useful for low memory machine.
06:44<tuiwang>I need it.
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06:45<bentham>tuiwang: sure. Mostly I was curious why you did not use a swap partition instead, but either way it seems irrelevant to your issue.
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06:46<felco>on gingerbread I used to keep swapness at 80% haha
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06:47<tuiwang>https://paste.debian.net/1199475/
06:47<tuiwang>bentham:here is the link.
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06:48<felco>tuiwang https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/delete-remove-files-with-inode-number.html
06:48<felco>that blog is full of howtos, it is good source of information
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06:50<felco>i know someone is old on linux if they had used ipchains
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06:51<felco>that goes back to kernel 2.x
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06:51<tuiwang>felco:thank you,I see it now.
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06:56<jm_>ipchains? ipfwadm!
06:57<tuiwang>felco:It also don't work.
06:58<felco>haha
06:58<felco>thats old
06:58<themill>tuiwang: did you pastebin the output of "mount" for us?
06:58<felco>tuiwang you got something on dmesg?
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07:01<felco>is debian using the reproducible binaries yet? i saw that couple of months ago
07:02<themill>felco: lots of bullseye is indeed reproducible
07:02<jm_>felco: not all of them are, but big portion are, there's a webpage with reports
07:02<felco>that is so cool
07:04<tuiwang>themill:The mount information is uploaded.
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07:05<tuiwang>felco:There is nothing useful on dmesg.
07:05<felco>tuiwang i thought, maybe there are a disk fault
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07:06<tuiwang>smartctl tool tests ok.
07:07<tuiwang>Maybe I need more precise disk tool to test.
07:07<richard_h>is /tmp on disk anyway?
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07:09<richard_h>tuiwang: where is the mount info? You say it's uploaded somewhere?
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07:10<tuiwang>https://paste.debian.net/1199480/
07:10<tuiwang>The link is here
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07:11<felco>ext4
07:11<tuiwang>Yeah
07:12<richard_h>I notice the file is in a directory called 'root'. Is that mounted somewhere else? In a vm or container or chroot or something?
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07:13<richard_h>or more likely, is the 'Terrence' directory mounted like that
07:14<felco>it is not
07:14<tuiwang>No
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07:15<tuiwang>The Terrence directory is used for recording the operation logged into this machine.
07:15<felco>tuiwang try # chattr -R -i -a /tmp/Terrence and # chmod -R ugo+w /tmp/Terrence then try to rm -r /tmp/Terrence
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07:17<tuiwang>It works.Great
07:17<felco>nice
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07:18<tuiwang>Thank you very much.
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07:19<felco>yr welcome
07:19<richard_h>I still can't see what the problem was :-) An immutable directory or something?
07:20<tuiwang>Another question.Is there any log file can record the operation(such as delete file,move file)?
07:20<felco>richard_h permissions on extended attributes, i need to check the flags
07:21<tuiwang>richard_h:Above all,It can be deleted :-).
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07:23<felco>richard_h may there were some files below the directory without needed permissions, -R fixed that
07:24<webmind>somiaj: thanks!
07:25<webmind>I just got that removed some libraries which I thought where redundant (libx11-6 libx11-data libx11-xcb1) which didn't seem to be needed by anything else. Than I ran apt autoremove, and it now removed jellyfin-server
07:25<webmind>which I installed by hand
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07:27<tuiwang>webmind:Maybe you should check the files that will be deleted.
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07:35<webmind>tuiwang: this is why I am wondering why 'autoremove' seems to want to uninstall a manually installed package
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07:45<tuiwang>yeah
07:47<webmind>"apt remove libx11-6 libx11-data libx11-xcb1" only uninstalled "libx11-6 libx11-data libx11-xcb1" and nothing else
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10:01<egawrilow2016>Hello Debian Community. I have a question. When I install LXDE in the Debian Proot environment on Android, I get an error configuring the lightdm, pulseaudio and udisks2 packages. Moreover, as I noticed in the logs, when trying to install pulseaudio and lightdm, DPKG creates the corresponding groups "pulse" and "lightdm", groupadd gives the answer "done", but, at the same time, the group is not created, which is why when trying to create a user
10:01<egawrilow2016>the system does not stupidly bind the user to the group. When checking the / etc / groups file, there really is no group. Moreover, when trying to install Debian through ready-made images (and the error occurs from the Debootstrap image), the error does not occur. What to do?
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10:02<omegatron>use the ready-made images ?
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10:03<egawrilow2016>omegatron: ready-made image - proot-distro package in Termux, UserLAnd and Debian noroot.
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10:03<ratrace>I don't think "proot on android" classifies as a valid environment we can support. that's hardly debian, and even less a GNU/Linux
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10:04<egawrilow2016>ratrace: proot - chroot without root
10:05<ratrace>on a non gnu/linux OS?
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10:06<ratrace>the reason is pretty much the same as the problem with:
10:06<ratrace>!based on debian
10:06<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
10:06<egawrilow2016>ratrace: UserLAnd is working, proot-distro is working.
10:06<ratrace>egawrilow2016: clearly it's not
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10:07<egawrilow2016>ratrace: UserLAnd is pack of scripts to deploy Debian on android.
10:07<ratrace>or in other words: can you reproduce the same problem on regular debian?
10:08<ratrace>egawrilow2016: oh I understand. But the problem is the same. that ain't supported debian gnu/linux environment.
10:09<egawrilow2016>Okay, sorry to disturb you. Bye!
10:09<ratrace>you've been asking teh same question here for several days. seems to me you're wasting time and will probably find more help with the "proot" community that understands better the peculiarities of that environment
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10:19<mkultra>hi debian fam
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10:43<locsmif_>Hi all. I have a system where my cow-orker set two different locales for LANG and LC_*. This is how he wants it, but I can't understand which readable configuration file actually sets things like LC_TIME. I recursively grepped / for it but can't find it.
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10:44<petn-randall>locsmif_: Is LC_TIME explicitely set?
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10:45<locsmif_>petn-randall: well, that's what he theorized because apparently LC_TIME sets a bunch of others? Or should I look for another variable instead?
10:46<locsmif_>Only thing I have in /etc/default/locale is: "LANG=en_US.UTF-8
10:46<locsmif_>"
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10:50<locsmif_>Well, I've tried looking and looking and no success :|
10:51<petn-randall>locsmif_: If you open a shell, does `echo $LC_TIME` return anything?
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10:55<locsmif_>petn-randall: sure
10:55<locsmif_>petn-randall: problem is, where did it get that from?
10:55<locsmif_>It yields # echo $LC_TIME
10:55<locsmif_>nl_NL.UTF-8
10:56<petn-randall>locsmif_: I was just making sure, because you can for example set LC_ALL, which would affect time, too, without explicitely setting LC_TIME.
10:56<locsmif_>Excuse the extra newline
10:56<omegatron>man locale gives more information (at the bottom are examples)
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10:57<petn-randall>locsmif_: `grep LC_TIME /etc/`, and next spot I'd look is ~/.bashrc and ~/.profile.
10:57<locsmif_>omegatron: there is no .locale directory under root's home dir, the only one on the system
10:58<locsmif_>petn-randall: already tried each step you mentioned
10:58<locsmif_>grep -HiR in fact
10:58<locsmif_>Checked out /etc/profile, /etc/profile.d, /etc/bash.bashrc ~/.profile ~/.bashrc etc. etc.
10:59<locsmif_>Maybe I overlooked something, I'll look again
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11:00<locsmif_>Nope, I'm bordering on despair at this point
11:01<omegatron>man setlocale might also help ... besides, glibc might be involved; this https://linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter08/glibc.html (at the bottom) might give you some ideas
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11:02<petn-randall>locsmif_: And this happens at login, or is it a long-running open shell? Because they could have set it by hand.
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11:05<locsmif_>petn-randall: It's a proxmox node (so not a VM but a host system) and it appears LC_ isn't set on a direct shell, but the LC_* are set when I connect via ssh
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11:05<omegatron>then the openssh configuration could be involved ...
11:06<locsmif_>Oh ffs!!
11:06<locsmif_># echo $LC_TIME
11:06<locsmif_>nl_NL.UTF-8
11:06<locsmif_>Oh, sorry, what I meant to say is that I found something in the sshd config
11:06<omegatron>yes, that's the openssh package most likely
11:07<petn-randall>locsmif_: Ah, you log in via ssh! That would have been an interesting detail to know about.
11:08<locsmif_>petn-randall: I'm very sorry
11:08<locsmif_>I didn't realise the significance
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11:08<petn-randall>locsmif_: Did you find LC_TIME being set in sshd_config?
11:08<locsmif_>petn-randall: it just copies my local system's environment settings
11:09<locsmif_># echo $LC_TIME
11:09<locsmif_>nl_NL.UTF-8
11:09<locsmif_>Arg, sorry
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11:10<locsmif_># Allow client to pass locale environment variables (newline) AcceptEnv LANG LC_*
11:10<locsmif_>(in /etc/ssh/sshd_config )
11:11<locsmif_>Thank you for your patience, all =(
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13:02-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
13:02<Onyx>Hi
13:02<Onyx>I have installed Debian 10.9 on a Dell poweredge r710 but was not able to configure network. Server has 4 physical ethernet ports; all are of Broadcom BCM5709C NetXtreme II GigE (Client NDIS VDB) #38-41. Server firmware version is iDRAC6 Firmware revision version: 1.96.01. Primary Backplane firmware revision 1.07. Thank you.
13:03-!-odnes [~odnes@109-178-131-97.pat.ren.cosmote.net] has joined #debian
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13:04<lavamind>Onyx: the installer might be missing some non-free firmware thats required for the network card to function, see https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation
13:06<sney>!bnx2
13:06<dpkg>bnx2 is a Linux kernel driver supporting Broadcom NetXtreme II 1Gb (BCM5706/5708/5709/5716) Ethernet controllers. Firmware from userspace is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-bnx2 package to provide. To provide firmware for device use at Debian installation time, ask me about <installer firmware>. See also <bnx2x>.
13:06-!-SunWuKung [~SunWuKung@ec2-13-52-76-193.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
13:06-!-SunWuKung is "Sūn Wùkōng" on #openwrt #pipewire #linux #wayland #tor-dev #alpine-linux #security #alpine-devel #asahi #debian #oftc #qemu #Qubes_OS #suckless #tor-project #virt #vhs #mitmproxy
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13:25<PaulePanter>Hi. QEMU allows to pass the Linux kernel image and initrd to be used (-kernel, -initrd). Sometimes, the files from `/boot` can be used.
13:25<PaulePanter>But if it’s not the case (because of initramfs-tools config chances), and modules are missing, do you know a way to create initrd images without copying them from the QEMU guest?
13:26<PaulePanter>As always, after posting the question, you find the answer. I only looked at `update-initramfs`, but `mkinitramfs` is used in the background, and that fulfills my needs.
13:27-!-Schproodle [~Kern@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-92-76-66-133-36.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
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14:44-!-bebo is "Bert" on #debian #debian-next
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14:44-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
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15:41<alex11>is regular vi in debian?
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15:54<bremner>maybe vim-tiny?
15:55<bremner>alex11: there is nvi
15:56<bremner>I don't think we get much more old-school than bsd 4.4, but I could be wrong
15:56<ratrace>it's just vim in compatiblity mode, it ain't "the" vi
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15:57<bremner>nvi?
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15:57<DaveNull42>vi in debian is symlink, there is no "real" vi (not by default, at least)
15:59<DaveNull42>I have this on my system: /usr/bin/vi -> /etc/alternatives/vi
15:59<DaveNull42>And /etc/alternatives/vi -> /usr/bin/vim.basic
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16:03<DaveNull42>I guess by default, vi symlink used to point to /usr/bin/vim.tiny, before I installed vim package
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16:04<ndorf>vim.tiny with :set compatible should be pretty close to classic vi
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16:04<bremner>apt show nvi
16:04<bremner>DaveNull42: ^
16:04<ndorf>ah yes, nvi is probably the most faithful reproduction
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16:05<DaveNull42>@bremner, a cclone to BSD's vi,e indeed. Never heard about nvi before
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16:11<jmcnaught>DaveNull42: you can manage those symlinks with update-alternatives(1)
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16:13<DaveNull42>@jmcnaught, I know. I just checked where doint it point to "by default" (well not really by defaut since it must have c
16:13<DaveNull42>been changer when I installed vim
16:14<DaveNull42>changed*
16:14-!-yamchah2 [~yamchah2@00028fd1.user.oftc.net] has quit []
16:14<DaveNull42>Is there anyone around who's familiar with "smart" cards and NFC (USB) reader/writer?
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16:33<jhutchins>DaveNull42: Define smart cards.
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16:40<DaveNull42>@jhutchins, anything CCID and PC/SC compliant, especially "contactless" (NFC) cards
16:42<DaveNull42>@jhutchins, I have an issue an NFC reader/writer, which is supposed to be supported on debian (there a driver, the reader is identified, and the correct driver is loaded)
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16:43<DaveNull42>But the reader works only with some software (pcsc_scan and cardpeek), not with other that should support it like nfcpy (and libnfc), accoding to the ncfpy documentation
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16:45<DaveNull42>It fauls to connect to the reader at launch time, there's a timeout after the correct driver is loader
16:45-!-tonyz [~tonyz@2a02:587:2805:3d8f:5d02:f69b:ad02:1d06] has joined #debian
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16:45<DaveNull42>fails*
16:46<DaveNull42>And I have no idea how to debug the timeout (nfcpy)/can't open device (libnfc) issue
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16:51<didu>help register
16:51<omegatron>try support in #oftc
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16:52<didu>thanks, my message got "lost"
16:52<petn-randall>didu: you probably want: /query NickServ help register
16:53<didu>yes, exactly, I skipped one step
16:53<didu>and thanks for your help
16:54<petn-randall>no worries, you're welcome :)
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17:50<FluffyFoxeh>Can I add newer repos to my older apt sources without everything becoming "upgradeable"?
17:51<FluffyFoxeh>version pinning or something
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18:05<DeeEff>FluffyFoxeh: using pin works, if you do `Package: *` and pin those as `Pin: release o=Debian a=stable`
18:05<DeeEff>then for every non-stable package, you'll need a different pin that will pull from testing or w/e
18:06<DeeEff>The documentation for /etc/apt/preferences (or preferences.d/) should help point you in the right direction
18:07<FluffyFoxeh>Thanks
18:07<DeeEff>I believe https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt_preferences.5.en.html is it.
18:07<FluffyFoxeh>ah, great. very helpful
18:07<jmcnaught>Mixing Debian releases is not recommended or supported.
18:07<jmcnaught>Things can still break with pinning. Debian releases are not designed to be mixed.
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18:07<DeeEff>It will certainly vary package-to-package
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18:07<FluffyFoxeh>jmcnaught: Is it fine as long as I make sure that whatever I'm installing doesn't pull a bunch of dependencies in with it?
18:08<jmcnaught>This is why things like backports exist.
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18:08<jmcnaught>FluffyFoxeh: what are you trying to install, onto which Debian release?
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18:08<DeeEff>FluffyFoxeh: mostly you want to watch out for libc differences
18:08<FluffyFoxeh>jmcnaught: libzstd-dev from bullseye, onto buster
18:08<FluffyFoxeh>something I'm compiling needs the later version
18:08<FluffyFoxeh>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/libzstd-dev
18:09<jmcnaught>!ssb
18:09<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
18:09<jmcnaught>FluffyFoxeh: you can use the above to recompile the package(s) for buster
18:10<FluffyFoxeh>oh, neat
18:10<FluffyFoxeh>!debian-backports
18:10<dpkg>backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
18:10<FluffyFoxeh>I forgot about bdo
18:10<jmcnaught>,v libzstd-dev
18:10<judd>Package: libzstd-dev on amd64 -- stretch: 1.1.2-1; stretch-backports: 1.3.8+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.3.8+dfsg-3+deb10u2; buster-security: 1.3.8+dfsg-3+deb10u2; buster-backports: 1.4.4+dfsg-3~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.4.8+dfsg-2.1; sid: 1.4.8+dfsg-2.1
18:11<FluffyFoxeh>the one on buster-backports may be adequate
18:11<FluffyFoxeh>*may*
18:11<FluffyFoxeh>assuming libzstd follows semver
18:12<DeeEff>never trust semver, even when a project says they follow it :(
18:12<DeeEff>but preferring backports to testing / sid is probably the better option if it works!
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18:31<hendursaga>How might I update from a netinst bare install?
18:31<hendursaga>My 'net wasn't working when installing after quite a few tries.. is there a way to install the rest now that it's working for whatever reason?
18:32<jmcnaught>hendursaga: you probably need to configure your /etc/apt/sources.list file, you can use one of the examples from this page: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list
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18:32<hendursaga>jmcnaught: And then what? I suppose I should use tasksel?
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18:33<hendursaga>Where might I find the script used by netinst anyways?
18:33<jmcnaught>hendursaga: "apt update" to update the package lists and "apt upgrade" to upgrade packages. tasksel can give you the same task selection menu that the installer does
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18:33<jmcnaught>Or you can just "apt install task-gnome-desktop" for example
18:34<hendursaga>OK, I'll try tasksel
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20:44<hendursaga>jmcnaught: So I installed the KDE task and rebooted - it does not start KDE Plasma, as I'd expected..
20:44<hendursaga>Does the installer do additional configuration or what?
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20:44<spawacz>I'm so confused. I set up a chroot, stumbled onto small issue which boils down to fact that root belongs to group root and numeric "6976". I have no clue where this group came from. I tried grepping entire /etc for this number and there's nothing here
20:45<BlueMatt>how does one start an lxc container (or, I suppose, any process with systemd-run) and have it outlive the ssh session that spawned it? systemd-run's man page suggests tuning things to the default which debian modifies and allow-linger, neither of which appear to have any effect
20:45<spawacz>running "groups" prints cannot find name for group ID 6976, but there is no such group nor number in any config file
20:46<Sqrt{not}>spawacz, show us where this 6976 occurs?
20:46<jmcnaught>hendursaga: what started instead? Just a text login prompt?
20:46<spawacz>it is inside fresh chroot created with debootstrap
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20:46<Sqrt{not}>show some output with 6976?
20:47<spawacz>Well, I am logged as root. I run "groups" and this error pops up
20:47<spawacz>inside chroot
20:48<hendursaga>jmcnaught: Yes, just a text login prompt
20:49<jmcnaught>hendursaga: what does "systemctl status display-manager.service" say?
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20:52<hendursaga>Hold on, let me set-up SSH so I don't have to hop around..
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20:54<hendursaga>jmcnaught: It says it is running
20:54<spawacz>Sqrt{not}: it does not occur anywhere inside /etc, and that's why I'm so confused
20:55<spawacz>but running "groups" as any user prints the error about missing name for this groups id
20:55<spawacz>that's all..
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20:55<jmcnaught>hendursaga: maybe you need to switch to a different tty to see it then? I don't know why that would be.
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20:55<tuiwang>Is there any log will record the file operation(deleted,create files)?
20:55<hendursaga>jmcnaught: I've tried every TTY I have, no luck
20:57<spawacz>okay i just invoked "groupadd -g 6976 foobar" and it works, but where did the faulty group ID came from in the first place?
20:58<jmcnaught>hendursaga: more than one GPU? Perhaps you could put the output of the above command and "journalctl -b" in a paste?
20:58<tuiwang>I met a problem,the directory disappeared suddenly,inside the directory were many files.I want to see if there any log will record the file operation?Any one can help me?
20:59<hendursaga>jmcnaught: I ran 'tasksel --new-install' and just rebooted.. will see what that does..
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21:00<sussudio>tuiwang: stop using the filesystem and dd copy it to another disk. then try something like extundelete
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21:02<hendursaga>jmcnaught: Aha! I didn't notice when it first booted up, complaining about needing GPU drivers..
21:03<hendursaga>But wouldn't that not necessarily prevent booting into a GUI??
21:03<tuiwang>sussudio:Yeah,It's a good idea.I will try it.Thank you.
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21:03<jmcnaught>hendursaga: it could. Is it complaining about GPU drivers, or firmware?
21:04<hendursaga>jmcnaught: amdgpu requires firmware installed - so maybe both? or latter?
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21:05<hendursaga>apt install firmware-linux ?
21:05<jmcnaught>hendursaga: you need the "firmware-amd-graphics" package from non-free, you may want to install the "firmware-linux" package if you want others
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21:05<hendursaga>A pity, non-free, but OK
21:06<hendursaga>Then reboot, perhaps?
21:06<jmcnaught>Yeah
21:07<dvs>hendursaga: you're lucky it's not an Nvidia!
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21:08<jmcnaught>My AMD RX 460 works great with the amdgpu driver, but it needs firmware-amd-graphics from non-free installed to work
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21:23<hendursaga>dvs: yeah, it's been awhile since I've wrestled with nouveau
21:24<hendursaga>jmcnaught: oh and it works now, thanks
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23:44-!-greg__ [~greg@31-161-227-66.mobile.kpn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:57-!-newtons [~newtons@101.39.196.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit []
---Logclosed Tue Jun 01 00:00:09 2021