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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-02

---Logopened Wed Jun 02 00:00:11 2021
00:02-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:02-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:02-!-mendel_munkis [~mendelmun@ool-ae2cb250.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:04-!-mendel_munkis [~mendelmun@ool-ae2cb250.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
00:04-!-mendel_munkis is "realname" on #minidebconf-online #Corsair #debian-gaming #debian-i18n #i2p #debian
00:04-!-stylesen [~stylesen@117.241.219.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:06<lhvf>Just a detail: (I've accompanied this conversation by read the historic of conversations from here < https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2021/06/01 > and dates besides.
00:07<lhvf>[...] (I've accompanied this conversation by read the historic of conversations from here ): [...]
00:09<lhvf>ping hanyuwei70
00:11-!-Gerowen [~Gerowen@172.97.22.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:18-!-eight [~eight@0002be8e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:25-!-colo [~colo@0002b768.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:25-!-colo is "colo" on #vienna #radeon #qemu #pulseaudio #openwrt #debian
00:26<lhvf>[...] hanyuwei70 and others: Has yet not anyone found an error from the same component (mds), and could help him to debug or send an bug error to CEPH Project Tracker? I don't have any knowledges to proper give a suggestion that could orient this user, and never utilized this Project. [...] More details here: → < https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2021/06/01 > .
00:29-!-srikavin [~srikavin@0002b1c5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:29-!-srikavin [~srikavin@0002b1c5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:29-!-srikavin is "Srikavin Ramkumar" on #debian #C
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00:32-!-Redentor [~armando@2600:3c01:e000:20c:26a:b4b9:9a0e:e249] has quit []
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00:33-!-FH_thecat [~FH_thecat@75.11.25.212.ftth.as8758.net] has joined #debian
00:33-!-FH_thecat is "FH_thecat" on #kernelnewbies #virt #debian
00:33-!-A|an [~Alan@173.218.173.25] has quit [Quit: A|an]
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00:36-!-odnes [~odnes@109-178-243-26.pat.ren.cosmote.net] has joined #debian
00:36-!-odnes is "realname" on #debian
00:37-!-prg [~prg@xannode.com] has joined #debian
00:37-!-prg is "prg" on #qemu #doom64ex #debian-next #debian @##superbothangout
00:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 923] by debhelper
00:40-!-debacle [3a8a2df271@2a03:4000:51:f44:4e1:2ff:fe00:4257] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42-!-wytchmaster [~wytchmast@2003:a:a13:3002:161e:d791:2a2c:975d] has joined #debian
00:42-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
00:49-!-wytchmaster_ [~wytchmast@groupware.proxion.de] has joined #debian
00:49-!-wytchmaster_ is "Andreas " on #debian
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00:54-!-wololoer [~user@00022ff6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1]
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00:57-!-addviking [~vikking@72.168.176.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:01-!-sgn [~sgn@0002996f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:02-!-sgn [~sgn@27.78.218.120] has joined #debian
01:02-!-sgn is "sgn" on #musl-distros #s6 #debian #oftc
01:03-!-srikavin [~srikavin@0002b1c5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:04-!-hybridwipe [~null@100.42.98.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:05-!-lhvf [~oftc-webi@000288dc.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:05<hanyuwei70>sorry I got wrong channel
01:06-!-radhitya [~radhitya@180.253.161.5] has joined #debian
01:06-!-radhitya is "Alif Radhitya" on #debian
01:06<radhitya>clear
01:06<radhitya>hi
01:06-!-qzd [uid237765@id-237765.tooting.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:07-!-radhitya [~radhitya@180.253.161.5] has quit []
01:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 916] by debhelper
01:14-!-dpanter [~dpanter@0002672e.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:14-!-dpanter is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde
01:14-!-hybridwipe [~null@100.42.98.196] has joined #debian
01:14-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #qemu #llvm #llvmlinux
01:16-!-ach [~spo@ip-109-41-192-111.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:18-!-giammi [~giammi@62-167-236-20.static.adslpremium.ch] has joined #debian
01:18-!-giammi is "giammi" on #freedombox #debian
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01:32-!-chomwitt [~Pitsikoko@2a02:587:dc02:b00:b16c:5166:feb8:97d5] has joined #debian
01:32-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-social #debian-xfce #openstreetmap #qemu #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev
01:32-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:319a:6c18:fe19:6798] has joined #debian
01:32-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
01:36-!-gtristan [~tristan@223.62.22.110] has joined #debian
01:36-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian
01:37-!-EmleyMoor [42b789682f@2001:8b0:ce3:1:6e62:6dff:fe7f:fa58] has joined #debian
01:37-!-EmleyMoor is "Phil Reynolds" on #debian
01:43-!-dub_a [~dub_a@2601:1c2:4e00:3b3::cb2] has joined #debian
01:43-!-dub_a is "dub_a" on #debian
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01:55-!-grzesiek11 [~quassel@178-37-223-166.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #debian
01:55-!-grzesiek11 is "Grzesiek11" on #debian-pl #debian #debian-next
01:59-!-runge [~oftc-webi@185.233.252.107] has joined #debian
01:59-!-runge is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
02:00-!-srikavin [~srikavin@0002b1c5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:00-!-srikavin is "Srikavin Ramkumar" on #debian #C
02:03-!-runge [~oftc-webi@185.233.252.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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02:05-!-rakor [~rakor@88.198.161.197] has joined #debian
02:05-!-rakor is "rakor" on #debian #debian-next
02:06-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:06-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 923] by debhelper
02:12-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:13-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:13-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:15-!-user [~user@2409:4073:483:483f:ac49:f6d4:9e08:b5dc] has joined #debian
02:15-!-user is "realname" on #debian
02:15-!-user is now known as Guest560
02:16-!-maknho____ [~maknho@80.67.179.204] has joined #debian
02:16-!-maknho____ is "maknho" on #debian
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02:16-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has quit []
02:16-!-Xaldafax [~xaldafax@cpe-198-72-160-101.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye...]
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02:17-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:17-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:19-!-seednode [~seednode@0002b892.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Nihil supernum.]
02:19-!-andibmu [~andi@94.134.93.72] has joined #debian
02:19-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian-meeting #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-edu #debian-lan
02:20-!-nssy2 [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:20-!-nssy2 is "realname" on #debian
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02:20-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:20-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:20-!-namid [~namid@2a02:2454:662:ff00:8a14:34ad:be02:e3a7] has joined #debian
02:20-!-namid is "Chris Gruner" on #debian
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02:20-!-seednode is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
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02:20-!-totonika is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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02:21-!-morningbreeze is "morningbreeze" on #debian
02:22-!-linuxlars [~lars@dhcp-15089.dhcp.sognenett.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
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02:24-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:24-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
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02:26-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:26-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:27-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has quit []
02:27-!-nssy [~nssy@197.232.7.51] has joined #debian
02:27-!-nssy is "realname" on #debian
02:33-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:34-!-hanyuwei70 [~hanyuwei7@n112120127091.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:35-!-erle- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:9de6:3513:eb22:53fc] has joined #debian
02:35-!-erle- is "Stephan" on @#antitux #debian
02:36-!-hanyuwei71 [~Thunderbi@113.57.152.160] has joined #debian
02:36-!-hanyuwei71 is "hanyuwei70" on #debian #ceph
02:36-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:36-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #debian-hugs #debian-privacy #debian-sso #debian-trademark #debian-gnupg #debian-academy #debian-live #moocows #oftc #ceph-ansible #ceph-dashboard #ceph-orchestrators #sepia #virt #qemu #debian-meeting #debian-lists #debian #debian-next #debian-social #debian-devel-changes #ceph-devel #ceph #debian-ubuntu #debian-ctte #debian-offtopic #debian-rant #spi
02:37-!-freshtube [~freshtube@92.60.40.197] has joined #debian
02:37-!-freshtube is "realname" on #debian-facile #redditprivacy #debian
02:38-!-hanyuwei71 [~Thunderbi@113.57.152.160] has quit []
02:38-!-namid [~namid@2a02:2454:662:ff00:8a14:34ad:be02:e3a7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:38-!-hanyuwei70 [~Thunderbi@113.57.152.160] has joined #debian
02:38-!-hanyuwei70 is "hanyuwei70" on #debian #ceph
02:38-!-gabuscus_ [~quassel@86.127.189.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:39-!-hanyuwei70 [~Thunderbi@113.57.152.160] has quit []
02:39-!-wytchmaster_ [~wytchmast@groupware.proxion.de] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
02:40-!-hanyuwei70 [~hanyuwei7@n112120127091.netvigator.com] has joined #debian
02:40-!-hanyuwei70 is "realname" on #debian #ceph
02:40-!-gabuscus [~quassel@86.125.254.104] has joined #debian
02:40-!-gabuscus is "gabuscus" on #debian
02:42-!-chomwitt [~Pitsikoko@2a02:587:dc02:b00:b16c:5166:feb8:97d5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:43-!-enyc is now known as enyc2
02:43-!-enyc2 is now known as enyc
02:46-!-chele [~chele@00022067.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:46-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
02:47-!-gabuscus_ [~quassel@79.114.86.2] has joined #debian
02:47-!-gabuscus_ is "gabuscus" on #debian
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02:54-!-ach [~spo@ip-109-41-192-111.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
02:54-!-ach is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #spooky #debian
02:56-!-tagomago [~tagomago@83.138.219.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
02:56-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
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02:58-!-ranx is "ranx" on #debian
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03:01-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:02-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:02-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
03:03-!-andibmu [~andi@94.134.93.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:04-!-chomwitt [~Pitsikoko@athedsl-20549.home.otenet.gr] has joined #debian
03:04-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-social #debian-xfce #openstreetmap #qemu #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev
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03:05-!-sgn [~sgn@27.78.218.120] has joined #debian
03:05-!-sgn is "sgn" on #musl-distros #s6 #debian #oftc
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03:09-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:761b:dd83:9b43:bc40] has joined #debian
03:09-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #packaging #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-meeting
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03:14-!-Anorelsan [~Antonio@140.red-83-46-72.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
03:14-!-Anorelsan is "realname" on #dri-devel #debian
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03:14-!-BCMM is "BCMM" on #openwrt #radeon #oftc #linux #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
03:14-!-jmux [~jan-marek@2a01:c22:7643:4a00:e68e:10d8:fc8b:cd85] has joined #debian
03:14-!-jmux is "Jan-Marek Glogowski" on #debian
03:16-!-TheRuralJuror [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
03:16-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #security #debian-next #debian.or.at #debian
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03:21-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #qemu #llvm #llvmlinux
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03:23-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-95-238-147-7.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:23-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
03:24-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@4G4AAA6DZ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:24-!-gabriel1 is "Gabx" on #security #retroshare #Qubes_OS #i2p #debian
03:24-!-hank [~hank@182.149.132.234] has joined #debian
03:24-!-hank is "realname" on #debian
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03:26-!-gabriel1 is "Gabx" on #debian #i2p #Qubes_OS #retroshare #security
03:26-!-hank [~hank@182.149.132.234] has left #debian []
03:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 929] by debhelper
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03:29-!-chele_ is "chele" on #debian #debian-next
03:32-!-chele is now known as Guest563
03:32-!-chele_ is now known as chele
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03:36-!-newtons [~newtons@101.39.196.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #debian
03:36-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
03:36-!-peylight [~peylight@ip40.ip-51-178-165.eu] has joined #debian
03:36-!-peylight is "https://wiki.debian.org/peylight" on #debian-social #oftc #debian-fasttrack @#debian-ir #debian #debian-java #openconnect
03:38-!-czesmir_ [~stefan@aeeq236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
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03:39-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
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03:43-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #hyprateam #debian-nonupload #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
03:44-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@055-100-000-128.ip-addr.inexio.net] has quit []
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03:44-!-chuf is "realname" on #debian
03:45-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@055-100-000-128.ip-addr.inexio.net] has joined #debian
03:45-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #qemu #virt #debian-qemu #debian
03:46-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
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03:46-!-sunarch [~x@catv-80-98-113-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #debian
03:46-!-sunarch is "sunarch" on #debian
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03:46-!-chuf is "realname" on #debian
03:47-!-cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
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03:47-!-cpaelzer is now known as cpaelzer_
03:48-!-cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
03:48-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:51-!-cpaelzer is now known as cpaelzer__
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03:52-!-test is "realname" on #debian
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03:53-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:53-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
03:53-!-gothicserpent is now known as Guest565
03:53-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:54-!-gothicserpent [~gothicser@static-198-54-129-76.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #debian
03:54-!-gothicserpent is "realname" on #C #debian #linux #oftc #publiclab #scilab
03:54-!-cpaelzer__ is now known as cpaelzer
03:54-!-cpaelzer is now known as cpaelzer_
03:54-!-cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
03:55-!-Guest565 [~gothicser@static-198-54-129-78.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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04:16<nCessity>Hello. I have a question regarding installing a package from the buster-backports (cmake-3.16.3-3~bpo10+1). I added the backport sources but it goes "cmake : Depends: cmake-data (= 3.16.3-3~bpo10+1) but 3.13.4-1 is to be installed" what did I possibly miss? I also installed clang-format-11 (which is in buster-backports), so the sources list seems to be ok. Any ideas? Thanks a lot!
04:17<TheBigK>nCessity: how did u install it... did u just try to add the dependency in the install command?
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04:21<jm_>nCessity: specify both on your apt install command and it shall work
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04:55<nCessity>jm_, TheBigK Thanks again, I installed via "apt-get installed via `echo "deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian buster-backports main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/buster-backports.list && apt-get update && apt-get install -y cmake=3.16.3-3~bpo10+1`
04:55<nCessity>So, yes
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04:56<TheBigK>nCessity: https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
04:57<nCessity>So I was probably missing the `/buster-backports` part...? I'll try that one.
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05:15<nCessity>TheBigK: That solved it. Thank you! jm_ thanks to you too!
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05:24<TheBigK>nCessity: good that u solved it
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05:30<crabbedhaloablut>https://fosshost.org/news/freenode <-- Debian logo on Fosshost's front page, now in company with "Freenode strategic partnership"
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05:34<dreamer>maybe fosshost supports in a different way than irc
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05:34<dreamer>weird partnership imo
05:36<dreamer>hope they are not going to pretend that they are the "official" irc provider for all the projects that are on fosshost
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05:37<crabbedhaloablut>"In the near term, the two projects will partner to launch co/cross branded public and tenant-facing SaaS offerings, available BYOD or levering the combined network for DNS."
05:37<dreamer>lol though: https://fosshost.org/news/libera-chat
05:37<crabbedhaloablut>Which is about as clear as mud.
05:37<dreamer>so fosshost uses libera-chat but freenode will be hosted on fosshost :')
05:38<crabbedhaloablut>Yeah, their denouncing freenode a week ago wasn't so unclear when the money wasn't rolling in.
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06:19<dreamer>so they do all chatting via relay-bots so I consider them too incompotent anyway
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10:00<r4fkramer>Hi all, After some insistence, I ended up giving up on btrfs, and now I only use ext4 and xfs on Debian.
10:00<r4fkramer>My question is: why does the Debian Project still maintain btrfs as a stable option in its installation?
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10:00<r4fkramer>It seems counter-intuitive to me, as debian is the greatest example of stability for an OS, while btrfs as a filesystem is just the opposite of this.
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10:05<sep>r4fkramer, ext/xfs have had some more years to stabilize. btrfs will get there, and faster if it is easy to use. having the option is not bad.
10:06<Sark>That is one really great thing about Linux, is the ability to have tons of options to build a system that suits you and the way you need it to work.
10:07<Sark>Although, genuinely curious - is there a benefit to other file systems over ext4? I've never even considered attempting to run off anything other than ext[2,3,4] in all the years I've run Linux. I mean, zfs for the file server's storage, but that's different.
10:08<sep>xfs have imuteabillity, veery nice for backups.
10:08<r4fkramer>"btrfs will get there, and faster if it is easy to use" - how many decades will it still take for this stability to be achieved? I have my doubts if I will be alive to see this happening......
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10:10<r4fkramer>Sark, I understand your point of view. But I made the question more related to Debian, as this Project prioritizes stability and operational security like no one else.
10:11<r4fkramer>Yes, sep, I use xfs in two Debian installations I have here - others run btrfs, but I am going to switch to ext4 and xfs.
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10:13<sep>there is quite a lot of btrfs usage out there tho 13k btrfs vs 20k xfs on popcon,
10:16<richard_h>I think xfs is faster to grow than ext4
10:16<richard_h>(though you can't shrink it)
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10:16<r4fkramer>To me, it seems nonsense to me that btrfs is available in the official Debian repository. Anyway, it's a fan that I don't intend to use ever again...
10:17<r4fkramer>Fine richard_h
10:17<bentham>Some people probably like it; maybe they have reasons.
10:18<bentham>Personally, I'd be interested to hear arguments for why I should not use ext4 for everything.
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10:18<richard_h>also, at a previous job, we did benchmarks and found that postgresql ran faster on xfs than on ext4
10:18<bremner>I guess some people prefer not to run LVM, but want some of the features LVM provides (like snapshotting)
10:19<richard_h>but we were pushing quite hard for performance
10:19<bentham>richard_h: fair enough
10:19<richard_h>the reason I like the fast xfs_growfs is because it's on LVM
10:20<richard_h>I keep the filesystems as small as possible/reasonable, and grow them when needed, rather than find I've overallocated to a fs that doesn't need it
10:20<r4fkramer>Sure, bentham. I liked it in the past. what I hear some claim is that ext4 doesn't have a modern set of features for big data -- an fs that doesn't work very well with scalability, something that xfs already stands out for. Anyway, I don't have a vision of it yet.
10:20<cc>the fact that xfs cannot be shrunk is extremely bad in non-server/datacenter deployments
10:21<r4fkramer>Fine bremner
10:21<cc>I have been bitten by this multiple times and I will never touch xfs again, regardless of how much performance (probably single digits) over ext4 will it cost
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10:21<richard_h>it bites me from time to time, but overall I'm happy with it
10:21<r4fkramer>I see cc
10:22<bentham>r4fkramer: thanks for that; I'm inclined to conclude that unless I'm doing enterprise-scale data analytics, ext4 is just fine.
10:22<richard_h>cc: is that because your usage has actually reduced, or because you allocated too much to start with?
10:22<r4fkramer>agree bentham
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10:23<cc>the last example was because the laptop was booting using BIOS, but I wanted to move the hdd from it to another laptop, that can only be booted from UEFI
10:23<cc>but to boot from UEFI you need special partitioning
10:23<cc>it I could not do it because XFS occupied the entire HDD and could not be shrunk
10:23<richard_h>right, fair enough
10:24<MadCamel>different filesystems for different use cases. ext4 is my personal default unless there's a good reason to use something else.
10:24<richard_h>I mostly have enough space that I can shuffle things around
10:24<r4fkramer>I'm still a very limited technically based user on Debian and Linux in general - I'm not at the same level as most of you here.
10:24<r4fkramer>For me, ext4 for daily use is fine. Maybe OpenZFS in the future, if it's feasible.
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10:24<richard_h>I'm interested in the immutability bit sep mentioned though
10:24<r4fkramer>same case here, MadCamel
10:25<richard_h>what's specific to xfs about that?
10:25<r4fkramer>richard_h, not so sure about your question - better saying: not so clear for me yet about your question.
10:25<richard_h>is it per file (like immutable attribute) or per fs (like mounting the fs readonly)?
10:26<r4fkramer>richard_h honestly, I really don't know
10:26<richard_h>more a question for sep :-)
10:26<r4fkramer>Fine
10:27<richard_h>sep: ^^ ?
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10:29<sep>richard_h, immutabillity is a flag you can set on a file on xfs. preventing even root from deleting the file. only root can remove the flag. so if you have a backup script saving files to a nas, a script there can make them immuteable. so even the creator can not delete/overwrite as malware tend to try to do nowadays.
10:29<sep>tools like veeam use this to harden against encryption blackmail
10:29<richard_h>right - that's a feature on ext4 as well, right?
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10:30<r4fkramer>Please bentham do you consider xfs suitable for enterprise-scale data analytics ?
10:31<richard_h>I do my backups by running dirvish (rsync based) from the backup server; the backed-up machine has no access to previous backups
10:31<bentham>r4fkramer: I cannot vouch for that. I do not do enterprise-scale data analytics.
10:32<sep>richard_h, https://vnote42.net/2020/11/23/new-in-veeam-v11-hardened-repository-immutable-backups-part-1/ ; not sure why veeam have picked xfs only.
10:32<r4fkramer>Understand, bentham. Since you used this example as opposed to using ext4, I thought you were referring to xfs.
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10:34<bentham>r4fkramer: yea, I don't use xfs and still do not understand the circumstances in which I might want to use xfs.
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10:35<bentham>I'm quite pleased with ext4, frankly, on clients and servers, for all sorts of file storage needs; it is hard for me to imagine why I would want anything else.
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10:36<richard_h>sep: looks like it relates more to xfs reflink support than the immutable attribute
10:36<bentham>As far as I can tell, all of the network filesystems and databases I need play quite nicely with ext4.
10:36<sep>that is quite possibly the case.
10:37<richard_h>and that's quite a new feature in xfs; I probably don't have anything supporting it yet :-)
10:37<r4fkramer>bentham, I see
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10:39<r4fkramer>bentham, it seems you are quite experienced on using ext4 for several cases, and for a long time
10:39<richard_h>yeah, not available (or not prod-ready) in buster
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10:39<r4fkramer>I will consider your analysis, for I never experienced any issue using ext4. But had a lot of trouble trying to administer Debian using btrfs.
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10:42<gdb>xfs has shown higher throughput for some kinds fo work (e.g.; database i/o). Big downside to xfs is you can't shrink it (if filesystem resizing is something you care about). That said, either is fine. You want the filesystem to be boring, something you never think about. Both xfs and ext4 provide that.
10:42<bentham>r4fkramer: well, I have used ext4 for a variety of cases, maybe not for an extremely long time; I would say only about five or six years. Before that I used ext3 and found that it, too, did everything I needed.
10:43<MadCamel>if you want killer performance use reiserfs (joke)
10:43<gdb>Yeah, good point. The performance of ReiserFS is to die for.
10:43*gdb snickers.
10:44<koollman>the tricky part is that until you test a new feature, you don't realize you might have missed it all this time :)
10:44<bentham>But I do believe that the journal checksums and faster checking make ext4 better than ext3.
10:44<r4fkramer>Fine bentham. Understand. And ext4 is standard for most Linux distributions today. It is still the fs of reference for those looking for stability and security in their OS.
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10:46<richard_h>sep: thanks for leading me down that path - I might have a use for reflinks when I start building bullseye boxes :-)
10:46<r4fkramer>MadCamel, reiserfs was a good promise. But, as far as I can see, he has turned into a defunct.
10:47<r4fkramer>I see koollman.
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10:49<koollman>ext4 or xfs have the immense advantage of being very stable and tested. I still prefer zfs and btrfs for specific systems or projects because the advantages (like internal checksumming and snapshots for both, or reservations for zfs) are pretty hard to pass on
10:49<sep>richard_h, yesh several companies have had their windows+refs backups overwritten enough times that everything was encrypted. (they had tape as well) so we are moving all refs repos to xfs
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10:49<r4fkramer>yes, koollman, the question is: how to use openZFS in debian
10:50<richard_h>sep: I also need to study more how ransomware typically actually works
10:51<r4fkramer>Thank you very much for all you who have answered me about questons 'btrfs vs ext4 vs xfs'. Really thank you :)
10:51<richard_h>r4fkramer: sorry for taking it off-topic :-)
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10:52<koollman>r4fkramer: it's pretty easy, either the debian way with zfs-dkms (https://wiki.debian.org/ZFS) or the openzfs binary way (https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/index.html)
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10:54<madez>I'm using btrfs for its modern features and I'm quite happy with it. The only issue I ran with it was when installing debian last time the installer had no option for btrfs formating features and subvolumes, but I managed to do this from the included console. I couldn't change the checksumming algorithm because the installer kernel lacked the xxhash module, but after installation I could change this by migration the system with btrfs send/receive. I
10:54<madez>did not run yet into any substantial issue with btrfs, even though using some of the advanvced features liberally.
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11:47<qrpnxz>any word on dpkg adding zstd support?
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11:55<bremner>#892664
11:55<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/892664 in dpkg (open, patch, moreinfo): «dpkg: Please add decompression support for zstd»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-03-11; last modified: 2021-01-10.
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11:57<qrpnxz>guessing that's a no
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12:05<bremner>well, you asked for "any word". That's some words.
12:05<bremner>If you want to know, will zstd be supported in bullseye, then yeah, the answer to that is no
12:10<cc>I think compression ratio is a much more important metric than compression/decompression speed for such a use case as a package repository, and as such zstd seems to me completely unsuitable for this
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12:11<cc>both because repository will be smaller and as such easier/cheaper to store, and because users will have to download less bytes
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12:14<qrpnxz>ratio is definitely important, but zstd is only a couple of points off in that metric. Given that the number of packages increases every year as well i don't find this a big deal. However, the huge speed increase decompression is very very nice.
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12:15*enyc meows
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12:16<enyc>qrpnxz: hrrm I wonder how optimized zsth implementations are in terms of reducing cache space / increasing cache hit / localite optimizations tec.
12:17<cc>in the bug discussion above, the difference between files in the test is 140MB
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12:18<cc>I would not call that a few points, and as a user I would rather not have to download 140MB extra data just because someone is using a sub-par compression method
12:18<qrpnxz>the average was 6%, and this is w/o going into the ultra levels
12:20<cc>zstd does not have any real ultra levels though
12:20<qrpnxz>w/e that means
12:20<cc>I'll tell you, if you don't know
12:20<cc>max zstd level is 22
12:21<qrpnxz>yeah 22 is an ultra level
12:21<cc>zstd -22 compression effectiveness does not even reach what xz -4 can do
12:22<qrpnxz>idk, but so?
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12:24<ratrace>ffs where's the official ISOs checksums at ....... terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible main website design. terrible.
12:24<cc>zstd has its niche use case where you are compressing and decompressing large streams of data on the fly and need to be fast about it, and ratio is a secondary concern; package repository is a significantly different use case
12:24<qrpnxz>ratrace, right there with the isos https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/
12:26<ratrace>qrpnxz: how do you get there from the main debian.org site?
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12:26<Sqrt{not}>ratrace, which page are you on now?
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12:27<qrpnxz>debian -> More -> Download -> Complete image -> using http -> amd64
12:27<qrpnxz>ratrace,
12:28<qrpnxz>debian used to have a navigation bar that was useful but that's gone
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12:28<ratrace>I know, it's no more. it's an ex navigation. beref of life.
12:28<qrpnxz>all the links seem to be in More at laest
12:28<qrpnxz>*least
12:28<ratrace>there's a download button the size of nebraska on the front page, which is good, but you have to employ friggin sherlock holmes to get to the shasums
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12:29<ratrace>I wonder if anyone got paid for that..... un-design.
12:29<qrpnxz>probably not
12:30<qrpnxz>also if you click download live image via torrent it just takes you to the install images
12:30<Sqrt{not}>ratrace, take the URL from the giant button, and strip off the filename end part, and you get what qrpnxz linked above
12:31<ratrace>y'all are missing the point here, aren't ya :)
12:31<Sqrt{not}>ratrace, if you want to pretend to be a novice, pretend you don't care about sums
12:32<ratrace>you really think I'm asking too much, to have a nice, easily available link somewhere on the front page?
12:33<qrpnxz>also, there are no live CDs, only DVDs cause they're all more than 700 megs ;(
12:33<ratrace>I'm using netinsts anyway
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12:35<ratrace>ffs I need a firmware iso..... le novo.... le sigh
12:35<blast007>!firmware images
12:35<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
12:37<Sqrt{not}>and note that every one of those https://....../iso-cd/ directories includes several flavors of checksums
12:37<somiaj>Yea, Debian hides them since they are a bit 'unoffical' as in they do not comply to the DFSG. I understand why they do it, and maybe one day there will be more open firmware.
12:37<ratrace>Sqrt{not}: yeah I see them
12:38<Sqrt{not}>I think the assumption is that anyone knowledgeable enough to want checksums (or even know what they are) will be able to find them
12:39<richard_h>I struggled for quite a while before finding them
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12:41<ratrace>I've been in code from 8am to 1pm. Then I drove for a friggin hour to go fetch the laptop from the computer shop, because my main workstation is having issues. then an hour back. then I had to deal with five clients complaining about carp that's not my responsibility at all. It's now almost 7pm. I ate nothing but some weak breakfast and lots of coffee. I don't see the checksums. I see garbled screen,
12:41<ratrace>like from matrix. I don't even know where I am. What year it is even. Who are you, again?
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12:44<Sqrt{not}>it might be helpful if there was a link to the install guide near the download button [https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/installmanual] since it includes a section about checksums
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12:45<realtime-neil>Is there a good/valid reason for a package to install a `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.{sources,list}` file? Are there any examples of this? I'm referring to this: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty#Sources.list_entry
12:46<bremner>realtime-neil: not for a package in Debian. For third party packages, I guess it's a matter of opinion.
12:46<bremner>It does allow security fixes without extra steps by the user
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12:47<realtime-neil>bremner: Would this be valid and/or kosher if I'm maintaining a third-party repository and wish to package literally everything mentioned by that linked documentation?
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12:50<ratrace> /msg judd 34ef:0234
12:50<ratrace>oops, sorry
12:50<bremner>realtime-neil: I don't follow your question.
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12:52<somiaj>bremner: I personaly don't like it when a package does that. If I wanted to add their source I would just add it, if I want to just download the package and install it, I don't want their source automatically added.
12:52<somiaj>realtime-neil: ^^
12:52<somiaj>bremner: opps
12:53<realtime-neil>bremner: I want to create a package that will install things including but not limited to: /usr/share/keyrings/foo-archive-keyring.gpg, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/foo.{list,sources} . Is a `foo-archive-keyring` an acceptable package with which to accomplish this?
12:53<somiaj>realtime-neil: Though I understand why google-chrome and other palces may choose to do that, this way their package is updated automatically. I think at a minimum it should be a debconf question that pops up, 'would you like to enable the repo for automatic updates'
12:53<realtime-neil>somiaj: understood. okay.
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12:54<somiaj>realtime-neil: note at some level this is a decision you need to make what is best for the users who use your repo/packages.
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12:56<realtime-neil>somiaj: I'm trying to consolidate where and how I distribute pubkeys and `sources.list` files. It seems like adding that stuff to a `foo-archive-keyring` is the "best" way to do that, but I don't trust my initial opinion.
12:56<realtime-neil>At the very least, I want to avoid breaking Debian policy.
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12:58<bremner>note that formally Debian policy does not apply to third party packages
12:58<bremner>not that complying as much as practical is not a good idea
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13:00<realtime-neil>bremner: duly noted. I also note that the documentation exists, but doesn't speak to the issue of installing sources.list files.
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13:02<bremner>realtime-neil: there would be no reason for a package in debian to do that
13:03<realtime-neil>bremner: Are you suggesting that getting a package installation to perform the work of apt client configuration is not a reason?
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13:06<bremner>realtime-neil: I think we're talking at cross purposes. I'm talking about installing packages from debian
13:06<bremner>so, that basically needs configuring once per install, or major version upgrade
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13:07<buZz>can anyone tell me what the 'fosshost' entry on https://wiki.debian.org/ServicesHosting means?
13:07<buZz>or how long it has been there
13:07<bremner>buZz: check recent changes?
13:07<realtime-neil>bremner: I think you're right about that. I was discussing bringing some convenience to the configuration of third-party repositories.
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13:07<bremner>realtime-neil: right. And that's not really a topic of debian policy
13:08<realtime-neil>bremner: understood. thank you very much for your time.
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13:09<buZz>bremner: i'm searching for the history of the wikipage though , recentchanges gives me the whole wiki?
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13:10<bremner>dunno then. I know that they have offered services to debian contributors for a while
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13:10<buZz>alright, thanks
13:10<buZz>there's dubiousness afoot surrounding that korean prince and fosshost
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13:14<bremner>ack
13:14<buZz>well, thanks for information, i'll lurk a bit further if thats ok
13:14<Sqrt{not}>buZz, check the link at the very bottom of the page
13:14<bremner>sure.
13:14<buZz>( vfull disclosure , i'm #devuan irc op ;) )
13:14<buZz>-v
13:14<Sqrt{not}>buZz, "last modified"
13:14<buZz>oh thats a link?
13:15<buZz>ahhhh
13:15<buZz>thanks
13:15<buZz>so 2020-07-13 19:15:51 , sweet!
13:15<Unit193>bremner: https://fabre.debian.net/
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14:16<carlos-moura>help -l
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14:19<petn-randall>carlos-moura: This is not the prompt you're looking for ;)
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14:58<k4ck0>Boa tarde. Tenho um note hp pavillion g4 amd a6 gpu radeon com debian 10 tudo rodando maravilha.
14:59<sarnold>!pt
14:59<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-br ) - debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org
14:59<sarnold>english?
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15:00<k4ck0>Ok thanks
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15:13<r4fkramer>Hi all please how to avoid screen to be closed after a certain time ? I use mate in debian as DE, and both 'xset s off' and 'xset -dpms' didn't work here. After 30 minutos, screen is closed....
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15:16<Nemoder>r4fkramer: is xscreensaver installed?
15:16<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: did you check the power settings in MATE?
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15:17<k4ck0>Good afternoon. I have an HP Pavilion g4 notebook, AMD A6, with Radeon GPU. Installing debian 10. When hibernating and returning it no longer turns on the network adapter. Can someone help me?
15:17<r4fkramer>Nemoder, thanks for answering. I don't know. Nobody told me about it. Let me check it now
15:18<r4fkramer>Yes, Nemoder, it is installed (xscreensaver is already the newest version (5.42+dfsg1-1).
15:18<r4fkramer>)
15:18<Nemoder>change the settings on it then, or just remove it
15:18<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, it was the first thing I did
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15:19<r4fkramer>The only resource I know about it is in the power management, in mate
15:19<r4fkramer>How to change settings you referred ?
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15:20<jmcnaught>k4ck0: hello, is it the wifi or ethernet you are having trouble with?
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15:21<Nemoder>r4fkramer: xscreensaver-command I think. I don't use it, check the manual
15:21<plaur>r4fkramer: i thought mate uses mate-screensaver by default (ased off gnomescreensaver), not xscrrensaver?
15:22<Nemoder>ah
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15:24<k4ck0>jmcnaught: ethernet
15:24<plaur>you should find its settings in the control panel. the screensaver selects what it will show on the screen (e.g. cosmos, squares), while the power management configures how long until it turns off the screen. i think there's also a panel appplet for disabling the screensaver, not sure.
15:24<r4fkramer>Nemoder, there are two options in screensaver: the first is 'Activate screensaver when computer is idle' and 'Lock screen when screensaver is active'. Should I uncheck both options?
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15:24*plaur needs a new keyboard
15:25<r4fkramer>Fine plaur, thanks for answering.
15:25*plaur bows to r4fkramer
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15:28<jmcnaught>Could run "apt --simulate remove xscreensaver" and see what would get removed, if MATE does not actually use xscreensaver then it might be better not to have it installed.
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15:29<jmcnaught>Or "systemctl --user --now disable xscreensaver.service"
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15:30<r4fkramer>Ok jmcnaught, thank you very much for Support
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15:34<r4fkramer>Please jmcnaught, should I use these commands as root or normal user ?
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15:34<r4fkramer>I suppose they should be used as root user, but not sure here.
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15:35<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: always default to regular user, people will tell you to use root if you need it
15:36<r4fkramer>I think I got a mistake here. I run it as root....
15:36<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: running a user command as root can be dangerous, running a root command as regular user will just give a harmless error. Always default to regular user.
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15:37<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, sorry, I was a bad student now. I ran 'apt --simulate remove xscreensaver"' as root
15:38<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: because of --simulate it does not actually do anything, it only shows you what it would do. That command can be run as root, but it does not need to be root to run. Only use root when necessary because you get an error with your regular user.
15:38<jmcnaught>specifically permission errors
15:39<r4fkramer>Fine, I understood, thank you for attention. The other command you suggested me I ran as normal user
15:39<r4fkramer>'systemctl --user --now disable xscreensaver.service' as r4fkramer user
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15:40<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: now you could run (as regular user) "systemctl status xscreensaver.service" to see what it is doing now. You might also want to log out and log back in to see if something else is starting xscreensaver other than your systemd user service manager
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15:41<r4fkramer>Ok jmcnaught, I'll do it. Thank you very much for Great Support :)
15:42<jmcnaught>Cool, GNOME in bullseye lets you set a keyboard shortcut for microphone mute.
15:42<bremner>how about for muting other people?
15:43<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, the output for s'ystemctl status xscreensaver.service'is 'Unit xscreensaver.service could not be found'
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15:44<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: are you on Debian 10 buster?
15:44<r4fkramer>yes, debian buster 10.9
15:45<Linux-Fan>r4fkramer: You need to explicitly add the `--user` flag to systemctl.
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15:45<jmcnaught>Oh right I forgot --user in my example, sorry.
15:45<r4fkramer>I didn't understand about setting a keyboard shortcut for microphone mute, but....
15:46<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: the microphone mute comment was not for you.
15:46<r4fkramer>No worries. Then, what is the syntax ?
15:46<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: "systemctl --user status xscreensaver"
15:46<r4fkramer>Oh, fine
15:47<r4fkramer>Now, the output for this command is: ● xscreensaver.service - XScreenSaver
15:47<r4fkramer> Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/xscreensaver.service; disabled; vendor preset: enabled)
15:47<r4fkramer> Active: inactive (dead)
15:48<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: I would still log out, log back in, and then run that command again to make sure nothing else started it
15:49<r4fkramer>Ok jmcnaught, I can't logging out now, but I'll do it as soon as possible. Thank you very much for Great Support, and for patience, too :)
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15:52<Linux-Fan>r4fkramer: You could also check if xscreensaver has been started outside the systemd user service with `ps auxw | grep xscreensaver`. If it only reports a single line with `grep`, xscreensaver is not running.
15:52<r4fkramer>Fine, Linux-Fan, I'll do it now. Thank you !
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15:54<r4fkramer>Please, Linux-Fan, here you are the output: r4fkram+ 6724 7.4 0.3 148176 27252 ? Sl 16:29 1:49 /usr/lib/xscreensaver/crackberg -root
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15:54<r4fkramer>The other output is:r4fkram+ 6830 0.0 0.0 6080 892 pts/0 S+ 16:53 0:00 grep xscreensaver
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15:55<Linux-Fan>r4fkramer: That's odd. It reports that a specific screensaver (the crackberg) is running, but not the xscreensaver parent process. Did the system at any thime show a screensaver (3D graphics?)
15:55<r4fkramer>' ● xscreensaver.service - XScreenSaver' is not flagged in green
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15:56<r4fkramer>I think yes Linux-Fan
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15:57<r4fkramer>But jmcnaught recommended me to log out the system, and I couldn't do it yet.
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15:57<Linux-Fan>r4fkramer: You can get rid of the process by calling `kill -s TERM 6724`. It might still be worth figuring out what process started the screensaver in the first place. You could try `ps auxw | grep screensaver` i.e. without `x` in it to see if any other screensaver program is running.
16:00<r4fkramer>Fine Linux-Fan, I'll do it now. Thank you very much for Attention and Great Support :)
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19:15<ratrace>seems like iwlwifi is a problem even in bullseye...
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19:41<Sqrt{not}>%iwlwifi
19:41<dselect>The iwlwifi Linux kernel driver supports several Intel 802.11n (WiFi Link, Wireless-N, Advanced-N, Ultimate-N) and 802.11ac adapters. Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-iwlwifi package to provide. Supported devices and troubleshooting hints are listed at https://wiki.debian.org/iwlwifi . See also <iwlegacy>, <iwl7000>.
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19:51<bahamat>How can I figure out why a service that is enabled is not running?
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19:54<jmcnaught>bahamat: not running at boot, or not running after you enabled it?
19:54<bahamat>jmcnaught: not running after boot.
19:55<jmcnaught>bahamat: what does "systemctl status …" say for the service?
19:56<bahamat>Loaded: loaded (file; enabled; vender preset: enabled)
19:56<bahamat>And
19:56<bahamat>Active: inactive (dead)
19:56<bahamat>journalctl shows nothing for it, so I don't think it even attempted to run
19:57<bahamat>Maybe it did? I just don't know how to tell that for sure. I don't see an evidence it ran though.
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19:59<jmcnaught>bahamat: not even "systemd[1]: Started mystery service" in the journal?
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19:59<bahamat>If I manually `systemctl start <service>` it runs without errors.
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20:00<bahamat>jmcnaught: Correct, I don't see a reference to that
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20:11<ratrace>is there a trick to rfkill unblock'ing a device on boot, or do I simply write up a service for that and call it a day?
20:11<ratrace>I asked googs but it also seems to suggest I should write a service
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20:13<somiaj>so your have a soft-lock on your wifi on boot?
20:13<ratrace>apparently.
20:14<somiaj>Strange, what wifi device?
20:14<ratrace>wpa supplicant says so and rfkill list says so, and rfkill unblock 0 (that's the device) unlbocks it and the supplicant works
20:14<somiaj>I assume you have looked through your firmware for configuration options, though I would assume hard block if it was firmware.
20:14<somiaj>how do you bring your network up?
20:14<ratrace>somiaj: incredibly named...... Inter Corporation Killer Wifi 6 ax1650i
20:15<somiaj>ratrace: I wonder if there is some modulo config for this, what kernel module does that use?
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20:15<ratrace>iwlwifi, and I gots the firware installed too
20:15<somiaj>ratrace: hmm strange, I never have seen iwlwifi do that with my devices. Anyways what od you use to configure your network? The interfaces file?
20:15<ratrace>hey, no probs if I have to write a service. just thought maybe there's a more .... native way
20:15<jmcnaught>Maybe systemd-rfkill is involved?
20:16<ratrace>somiaj: I have a wpa-supplicant.conf and then I have a stanza with wpa-conf for wlan0 in e/n/i
20:16<ratrace>jmcnaught: hmmmm maybe
20:17<somiaj>ratrace: you could add a pre-up line in the interfaces file to run that rfkill command, that way it is run before the interface is brought up
20:17<ratrace>jmcnaught: ooh ooh that might be it
20:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 937] by debhelper
20:18<somiaj>so 'pre-up rfkill unblock 0' in the stanza that brings up your interface
20:18<ratrace>somiaj: lemme test the systemd-rfkill.service, the manpage suggests it stores the changes into a varlib, or I could force a state via kernel command line opt
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20:19<ratrace>yup... systemd-rfkill.service sets the state. once I manually changed the state, now the service is keeping it on boot.
20:19<ratrace>one virtual beerkeg to jmcnaught.
20:20<ratrace>(btw, %s/Inter Corporation/Intel Corporation/ )
20:22<ratrace>somiaj: btw, sorry I failed to mention first, this is bullseye. I actually isntalled buster on this new laptop, but dmesg kept complaining about firmware from git etc... so I did a wholesale bump to bullseye while tethered via USB
20:23<somiaj>nice
20:23<somiaj>yea i'm urnning bullseye on my desktop now too, release is soooooon
20:23<ratrace>indeed
20:24<ratrace>I also don't understand the firmware ISO now. yes it worked, selected iwlwifi and I setup wifi and installed buster. but then I expected it' keep the config and/or firmware installed. it didn't.
20:24<ratrace>so what's the point of the ISO if I need network post-reboot to get the firmware which I was supposed to install during installation from firmware ISO .... hmmmm
20:24<somiaj>I think it just manually coppies the firmware you need to /lib/firmware, but doesn't install the actual package
20:25<somiaj>so you ahve the firmware, just no package that provided it
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20:25<ratrace>firmware was missing until I installed the package
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20:25<somiaj>strange, I don't use the installer outside of vwms that often, but wonder if you found a bug.
20:26<somiaj>ratrace: wait did you install buslleye or upgrade to bullseye?
20:26<ratrace>I usually use debootstrap, but today I was in a pinch as my workstation went belly up and I emergency bougt a laptop so I can work
20:26<ratrace>somiaj: installed _buster_ from firmware ISO, then tethered USB network, then bumped to bullseye
20:26<somiaj>okay, so since the firmware you needed wasn't on the buster iso, no firmware was coppied over
20:27<somiaj>If you were to use the bullseye firwmare installer I suspect the firmware would be copied to /lib/firmware even if the package wasn't installed
20:27<somiaj>(which I think is how the installer works, it just provides the firmware not the package)
20:27<ratrace>somiaj: okay, but then how did the buster installer wo...... oh wait, I'm dumb and tired. I had a helper ralink USB dongle for network for installation as iwlwifi wouldn't work even via firmware ISO
20:28<somiaj>(:
20:28<ratrace>but nevertheless I couldn't get the ralink USB up post-reboot either. that's where I gave up and used tethering to do the upgrade
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20:29<ratrace>so I was wondering what the installer did, that I missed and/or had to set up manually after reboot. nevermind now. I'm really too tired to think. almost 3am here, and I'm up since 7am
20:29<somiaj>I'm not positive on how the firmware installer works, but I don't think I ever ran into that issue myself.
20:30<somiaj>though I have so little experience 90% of my installs are on vms, not real hardware that doens't need firwmare
20:30<trench>why didn't you make a bullseye usb boot?
20:30<trench>why even start with buster?
20:31<ratrace>because I have the ISOs on USB sticks and rescue media and backup portables
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20:31<ratrace>my workstation died. I had no network to go fetch something else
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20:32<trench>the laptop was windows?
20:32<trench>native
20:32<ratrace>freedos.
20:32<ratrace>lenovo ideapad 3
20:32<ratrace>I don't pay the MS tax :)
20:33<trench>I get computers from work so I don't pay for them at all :P
20:33<ratrace>me too. but then I'm my own boss and co-owner of the company. har har :)
20:33<trench>what is your workstation connected to then?
20:33<trench>wifi?
20:34<ratrace>no, cabled eth
20:34<ratrace>but the laptop has no eth port :(
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20:34<trench>usb to ethernet? :)
20:34<ratrace>and I forgot to pick up the usb ethernet thingy too. but I have a spare wifi ralink
20:34<ratrace>but I do have rescue media, USBs, ISOs, for these situations. it's just it's all buster based
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20:35<ratrace>so far I didn't upgrade it all to bullseye because I use ZFS and until recently, there was the problem with zfs version and kernel version. now zfs is bumped to 2.0, supports bullseye's 5.10, and I can bump all my rescue media, backups and ISOs to bullseye
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20:38<ratrace>btw 1920x1080 on a 15" screen is terrible. I Almost need a magnifying glass to read what's on the screen
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20:38<ratrace>(talking about the console, I haven't yet installed GUI... as I want to go sway and wayland this time)
20:38<somiaj>what wm do you use?
20:39<ratrace>normally i3-wm, but I wanna take the opportunity with bullseye to go to sway and use wayland
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20:39<somiaj>ahh well unsure about wayland, I know in xorg, you can set the dpi of xft fonts, it is what I use with fvwm to make all my fonts bigger and readable on high res screens
20:40<trench>https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189841
20:40<ratrace>yeah I know, I had to tweak that for i3
20:40<trench>regarding zfs on linux :P
20:40<ratrace>trench: very old news and a lotta FUD
20:40<somiaj>you can alos use xrandr to scale your displays
20:40<ratrace>was pretty disappointed to see Linus really not knowing the facts
20:41<somiaj>though I don't know how any of this translates to wayland
20:41<ratrace>somiaj: well, I'm about to find out :) but the console at least, that's tiny itsy bitsy text by default
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20:45<somiaj>ratrace: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup (pick a bigger font), won't change until you reboot
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21:28<petrj>anyone familiar with udev stuff?
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21:29<dvs>!anyone
21:29<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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21:29<petrj>if you have a choice between creating a udev ruile or creating a systemd service, which one would you choose and why (not the other)?
21:29<petrj>i am dealing with a utility which is doing 'if systemd, regester as service; else register as udev rule'.. i am wondering what the benefit of this disparity?
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21:31<madez>joining #mobian requires being registered and verified, for which irc.oftc.net requires solving a recaptcha, meaning exposure to google :-(
21:31<dvs>I've heard that udev is going away but I'd still use it.
21:31<sussudio>recaptcha didn't exist when i registered.
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21:34<dvs>neither did fire
21:34*dvs runs away
21:34<sussudio>you can't outrun a badger.
21:34<dvs>heh
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21:35<petrj>dvs: it's usbmuxd package. on alpine/openrc systems, it registers as a udev rule on debian it registers as a service. when i boot debian machine and connect iphone via usb, it is just working. on alpine when i boot and connect the iphone it does not work, at this point if i kill the usbmuxd, and reconnect the iphone it automagically spawn the new
21:35<petrj>instance and then it works. it feels like a race condition as in when kernel loads udev stuff... and their implementation is sensitive (probing something point in time without attempting to wait a bit) etc. hence my curiosity.
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21:39<somiaj>a udev rule is to be triggered when a specific device, while a systemd service is either for startup, or can be triggered by use of sockets (simplifed of course)
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21:39<somiaj>dvs: where did you hear that, I know udev has been incorpriated into systemd, but I think it is staying around, just as part of systemd and not its own source.
21:40<dvs>ah I see
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21:40<somiaj>from apt show udev, "Source: systemd"
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21:42<somiaj>petrj: #systemd (unsure if they are still on freenode or have moved) might be able to better articulate the difference between when a udev rule vs a systemd unit file is needed.
21:42<petrj>https://github.com/libimobiledevice/usbmuxd/blob/5e484e18f1383b5a0bd6c353ab1d668b03e4ffab/configure.ac#L88-L92 then it uses .service (for systemd -based OSes) and .rule (for the 'rest') files respectively.
21:42<somiaj>since it is really different aspects of the same source now, depending on if it is handeling devices or not.
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21:43<somiaj>petrj: is there a fork of udev, or are non systemd based OSes using the older udev before it was incopriated into the systemd source
21:43<somiaj>or are they just using parts of systemd such as udev, logind, but not it as the init system.
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21:44<petrj>they are using kernel's core ability to handle udev afaik, no userspace stuff involved?
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21:44<iateadonut>i'm tail -f logs; the logs have "\n" in it - how can i convert that into a line break as i tail -f?
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21:44<raven523>those other distros mostly use eudev, which is a fork of udev that has systemd integration cut out
21:44<somiaj>I don't think udev has been a part of the kernel, it is a userland dameon that repsonds to kernel events. Though here I might be out of my experience how thigns are seperated.
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21:47<petrj>ah, same. i'm not an expert, just an enduser i saw this behavior. i will try to translate systemd .service definition of usbmuxd into openrc initd script and test if it helps the 'first attempt after boot case' (without killing the instance once).
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21:48<iateadonut>i did it liek this: tail -f error.log | sed 's/\\n/\n/g' - i couldnt' figure it out at first because i was using /bin/fish; i changed to /bin/bash
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21:49<somiaj>iateadonut: does it work in bash? It almost sounds like the shell isn't responding to newline characters correctly.
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21:50<somiaj>at least my test, works just fine in bash, so wonder if fish is doing something funky with the new line characters
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21:53<iateadonut>works just fine in bash.
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21:57<iateadonut>fish is pretty great, but i always have to remember to use bash occasionally.
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22:00<petrj>yes, getting used to a 'better' shell has downside when we switch to the other system where we don't have admin rights, it feels uncomfortable. i stick to sh/bash for this reason (since i work with weird ci environments and now-unpopular unices..)
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22:01<somiaj>hmm wonder why fish isn't treating new line characters correctly in that context, maybe ask people more familar with fish
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22:05<awa>hola, alguien sabe como configurar el brillo en la distro AntiX ??
22:05<awa>y como poner volumen?
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22:44<sarnold>carkmorwin: any chance you can fix your connection?
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22:46<somiaj>assuming not, maybe we'll just have to remove them temporarly
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22:47<somiaj>carkmorwin: ping, your connection is having issues.
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22:48-!-mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj
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23:36<will0w>anyone know of a guide to switch exim from split -> monolithic configuration?
23:37<iateadonut>petrj, yeah, i login to a server all the time and wonder why it's not auto-suggesting the rest of the command for me.
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23:39<Aminadabi>oi
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23:40<Aminadabi>boa noite
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23:46<Aminadabi>boa noite
23:46<sarnold>gn8
23:47<Aminadabi>:) I from brasil and you ?
23:47<sarnold>usa
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23:50-!-plus is "plus,,," on #debian
23:50<plus>eefe
23:50<somiaj>!chat
23:50<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic (either freenode or oftc) or #moocows on irc.oftc.net, ##chat on irc.freenode.net, or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
23:51<Aminadabi>I love Linux
23:51<xnaas>>freenode
23:51<plus>I love GNU/Debian
23:52<Aminadabi>GNU/Debian é bom!
23:52<sarnold>!chat is This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
23:52<dpkg>...but chat is already something else...
23:53<sarnold>!no chat is <reply> This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
23:53<dpkg>okay, sarnold
23:53<sarnold>!chat
23:53<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
23:53<sarnold>yay :D
23:53<xnaas>:)
23:53<sney>going through and s/freenode/... all of the factoids will be someone's job later on
23:54<somiaj>sarnold: s =~ s/##chat on irc.freenode.net,// could have also worked
23:54<sarnold>somiaj: I also wanted to kill the (either freenode or oftc) bit
23:54<somiaj>we are partly waiting for things to die down a bit more, there are lots of things webpages, etc that need to be updated, but I don't think we are to the point to cut the cord just yet
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23:55<somiaj>sarnold: ahh missed that
23:55<sarnold>ah :) I'm more than ready to cut that cord :)
23:55<somiaj>many are, but if we do, we loose #debian on freenode to their staff, and we don't want that.
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23:57<sarnold>yeah :( I set +s and a new topic in a channel I cared about and walked out the door, heh
23:57<sarnold>gn8 somiaj :)
23:58<jpw>recent events may suggest they will take it anyway
23:58<sney>#hexchat on freenode has had a bit of a ride, first we changed the topic and announced the channel was on libera, then freenode ejected us into ##hexchat, then we got the single # back somehow, and then some mass undo reverted the topic to the libera announcement
23:58<sney>I have no idea what'll happen next lol
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23:58<sarnold>sounds right :)
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 03 00:00:12 2021