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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-11

---Logopened Fri Jun 11 00:00:23 2021
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00:22<Tj>systemd-networkd, v241, bridge interface. After many months working fine is today failing to bring up the bridge reporting "Too many levels of symbolic links". strace reveals a netlink message -ELOOP but not been able to figure this out. Anyone have experience of this?
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00:25<sussudio>seems bugs.debian.org seems to be a more appropriate place to look instead of here...
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00:30<Tj>done that already; I was hoping there might be someone had experience of this since it is a weird one; presumably a symlink loop but the only file-system where it would presumably be looking is sysfs, and there symlinks are the norm
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00:37<Sqrt{not}>Tj, yabut even in sysfs you don't want a symlink loop. Also, maybe symlinks in config files?
00:40<Tj>Sqrt{not}: nothing in the configs; the config is actually unchanged in many months. This is the weird part. I thought it was a transient issue and rebooted but its still happening. I removed all the slaves and it still happens. The netlink socket returning -ELOOP makes me think its something internal to the kernel
00:42<Tj>Moved the file over to my laptop via USB; this is what strace captured. around line 2518 is the error, but the netlink sendmsg() to fd 5 is much earlier and doesn't reveal anything useful. http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SZn2Z3z8t3/
00:43<Tj>Wondering about just upgrading to bullseye but that doesn't guarantee a solution!
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00:44<Tj>The source-code doesn't help either, just a call into netlink from src/network/netdev/netdev.c::netdev_enslave_ready()
00:46<Tj>I suspect it may be due to a recent upgrade; looking at apt's history.log there was a large set of upgraded packages on the 7th June (4 days ago)
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00:56<Tj>Could be triggered by the fix for bug #963488
00:56<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/963488 in systemd (closed, upstream, fixed-upstream): «[buster] systemd-network assigns a random network address to bridge interfaces»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-06-22; last modified: 2020-12-18.
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01:00<jason1234>hello
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01:00<jason1234>how to enable the enp8s0 to get internet at reboot into systemd automatically?
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01:02<Tj>jason1234: systemd-networkd config. /etc/systemd/network/enp8s0.network -> "[Match]" "Name=enp8s0" "[Network]" "DHCP=yes" should be sufficient
01:03<Tj>jason1234: then of course "systemctl restart systemd-networkd"
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01:03<jason1234>Tj, ok, I try
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01:06<jason1234>there is systemd, but not "systemd-networkd"
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01:19<coetzeer2>/!\ ТዘІЅ CHANΝЕL HAᏚ MOVEᎠ TO IᎡⲤ.LIⲂERΑ.CዘᎪᎢ #НAMᎡADIΟ /ǃ∖
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01:23<jason1234>it did not work. there is not net at reboot,... how to set enp8s0 to be enable (dhcp) after reboot?
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01:25<jmcnaught>jason1234: have you configured networking? The default on Debian is to use /etc/network/interfaces and set an interface to auto
01:26<jmcnaught>jason1234: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration and you can also read "man interfaces" for more information about that file.
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01:27<Tj>jason1234: if you're using systemd then you'd need to ensure you've enabled systemd-networkd service; as in "systemctl enable systemd-networkd" (and then start it)
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01:29<jmcnaught>systemd-networkd is not mandatory with systemd, but perhaps jason1234 could clarify how they have configured networking, with which tool.
01:30<jason1234>no idea how, I used debootstrap, but /usr/bin/systemd-networkd <--- not into there
01:30<Tj>jason1234: because it isn't there, it's /lib/systemd/systemd-networkd
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01:31<Tj>jason1234: it is a system service; simply enable it as above and it'll be started at boot-time, and if you've got the config file(s) in place, they'll be actioned automatically
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01:31<Tj>jason1234: or, as jmcnaught said, use the old legacy ifupdown method
01:32<jason1234>ifupdown is said to be bad,
01:32<jason1234>#linux mentioned not to use it
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01:34<jason1234>I just tried: /etc/systemd/network/enp8s0.network -> \"[Match]\" \"Name=enp8s0\" \"[Network]\" \"DHCP=yes\" and systemctl enable systemd-networkd
01:35<Tj>jason1234: so you've a file with 4 lines in it? no quote marks around anything?
01:36<Tj>jason1234: this is what it should look like https://paste.debian.net/1200816/
01:39<jason1234>no one knows how to get internet with rj45 using systemd?
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01:40<jason1234>ok, i try that...
01:41<Tj>jason1234: we are assuming your network has a DHCP server available via that ethernet link
01:42<jason1234>thank you!!!
01:42<jason1234>the pste.debian.net worked!
01:42<Tj>jason1234: :)
01:42<jason1234>another question, how to run /usr/bin/autologin from tty0 at reboot?
01:42*Tj seems to spend most of his days in systemd-networkd !
01:43<Tj>jason1234: you've got me there - I pass!
01:43<jason1234>again with systemd, can systemd start a autologin on tty0 ? what is the command line to give to systemd?
01:44<Tj>jason1234: I can't find any package containing usr/bin/autologin - are you sure of that?
01:45<jason1234>sure, I wrote it myself
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01:46<jason1234>i need to start my autologin /usr/bin/autologin from tty0 at reboot? is systemd capable to do that? (see https://termbin.com/1zaa for autologin.c)
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01:48<sofar>⧸ǃ⧵ ΤᎻIЅ ᏟᕼᎪNNЕᒪ ΗAS MΟᏙEᎠ TO IᎡC.LΙΒEᖇA.ⲤHΑᎢ #ⲎAMᖇADIO /!∖
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01:50<jason1234>On tty0, I saw that retropie messed up with tty0 at boot, how do they run a root /usr/bin/autologin from root at reboot (systemd tech)??
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01:52<Tj>jason1234: you'd just need a .service file in /etc/systemd/system/ but I'm not sure what type it would need to be
01:53<Tj>jason1234: have you considered using the lightdm display manager? it has autologin capability built-in
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01:54<jason1234>I use no X. this is a apache server
01:55<jason1234>can systemd run a autologin at tty0 like retropie does? we need /etc/systemd <-- something to start on tty0 the /usr/bin/autologin
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01:57<Tj>jason1234: the code you pastebinned for the autologin program shows it starting X
01:58<Tj>jason1234: " /usr/X11R7/bin/startx -- :0 "
02:00<jason1234>really? autologin is resident, it can run other things. cc ... printf( "..." ) and compile it onto /usr/bin/autologin and it is a startup C code.
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02:06<cheako>How can I get `print_hex_dump(KERN_DEBUG)` messages? As in `If CONFIG_DYNAMIC_DEBUG is not set, print_hex_dump_debug() is just shortcut for print_hex_dump(KERN_DEBUG)`\. Like https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.13-rc5/source/drivers/net/dsa/mv88e6xxx/port.c#L1152
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03:47<Saturn>Anyone know how to access the green directories in debian?
03:47<Saturn>Trying to cd to a folder, and it's giving me shit...
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03:49<quadrat>green directories? do you mean executables?
03:49<quadrat>Saturn ^
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03:57<hongjian>test
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04:01<Saturn>Yeah, in GUI they're not directories. This readme must be bogus.
04:01<Saturn>Eh, new problem, how do I make my regular user a su doer?
04:01<Saturn>I'm trying to transfer files, I can't access ~ in root.
04:01<Saturn>And I can't do anything in ~ without su...
04:01<Saturn>debian is just full of wonderful little things like that isn't it?
04:02<Saturn>usermod -aG sudo username
04:03<Saturn>didn't work
04:03<Saturn>I guess debian devs thought that command went against a GUN principle?
04:03<Saturn>So, what satisfies the idealism AND gets me sudo access?
04:04<Anarka>adduser anarka sudo
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04:04<Saturn>I'll try that thanx
04:04<Saturn>says already a member
04:04<Saturn>but when I do sudo it says it's not and will report this incident...
04:04<Saturn>Any ideas?
04:05<Anarka>if you dont create a root password during install then your first user is a member of sudo
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04:05<Saturn>I created a root password...
04:05<Saturn>And I can't access my home directory from root..
04:05<Saturn>I typed cd /etc/whatever and it gives me trash
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04:06<Anarka>!? is this a new install ? and you're logged in with your regular user ?
04:06<jm_>does id show you in group sudo?
04:06<dpkg>...but is already something else...
04:06<Saturn>It's not new... And I'm logged in as my regular user.
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04:06<azeem>Saturn: what file system?
04:06<Saturn>eh,,, idk
04:06<Saturn>how do I check?
04:07<Saturn>ext4 I think, but I need to confirm
04:07<Anarka>id is the command
04:07<azeem>mount showas all mounted file systems
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04:07<Saturn>it does not show sudo as a group with id...
04:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 973] by debhelper
04:08<azeem>then you need to re-login
04:08<Saturn>but, when I try to add it using Anarka's command it says I'm
04:08<Saturn>ok, I'll try that
04:08<jm_>relogin or use newgrp command
04:08<Saturn>boot is vfat
04:08<Saturn>and rest is ext4
04:08<Saturn>rebooting
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04:10<Saturn>hey!!1
04:10<Saturn>thanx!
04:10<Saturn>works now!!
04:10<Saturn>ONTO the next conflict! hahaha
04:11<Saturn>maybe in a week, I'll have this program working
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04:11<Saturn>thank you all so much!
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04:22<ratrace>some vfat booty.
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04:54<wyre>is there some risk at performing apt upgrade when I add backports to sources.list?
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04:58<jm_>unlikely as apt won't install packages from backports by default
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05:15<hid3>Hello everyone. I'm writing a systemd .service file. I need to do ExecStart of a binary and pass arguments to it from config file. In order to get them I need to do: grep ^ARGS | awk '{print $3, $4}' /etc/myconfig.conf . Any ideas how to achieve that?
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05:25<Saturn>Finally got adobe flash working! =)
05:25<Saturn>Only took 12 hours...
05:25<jm_>man page for systemd.service mentions something like ExecStart=sh -c 'dmesg | tac', so you could probably do that but doesn't sound like a good idea
05:26<jm_>flash? all modern browsers stopped supporting that or will very soon
05:26<Saturn>Yeah, it died in December 2020
05:26<Saturn>I found a work around. =)
05:28<Saturn>!kali
05:28<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
05:28<Saturn>I hope libera is not another one of those ones where you have to register and allt hat... ugg
05:28<petn-randall>!enter
05:28<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
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05:33<Saturn>So, that !kali link is not helpful. That channel is empty. LOL and you can't search for channels within 60 seconds of joining that server! hahahaah the silly rules on IRC are funny.
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05:40<wyre>where can I find an explanation for dpkg-old, dpkg-new and dpkg-dist files?
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05:41<ratrace>Saturn: they're far from silly. imagine if all the thousands of users would gather in a single channel, if the channels were not topically separate...
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05:43<sussudio>the kali channel on here has 6 users.
05:43<petn-randall>wyre: those are "conffiles", I don't know where to look up the documentation, but that might help with your search.
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05:57<themill>and there are 41 in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat
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06:01<wyre>could I simulate dist-upgrade?
06:03<wyre>petn-randall, also ... I've been reading this article ... https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-configuration-file-managed-by-dpkg/ but I'm confused because I've got several .dpkg-new files but I didn't answer Z (start a shell to examine the situation) to any question
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06:12<wyre>also ... dpkg --status doesn't show all config files in /etc/<package_name> I just can see a files in /etc/default/<package_name>, /etc/init.d/<package_name> or /etc/logrotate.d/<package_name>
06:12<petn-randall>wyre: If you answer "no" to overwriting the old config, the new config will be placed at <full_conffile_path>.dpkg-new
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06:13<wyre>oh, they are part of another package called <package_name>-config
06:13<petn-randall>wyre: if you answer "yes" it will be overwritten, and the old config will be put at <full_conffile_path>.dpkg-old, and so on.
06:13<wyre>petn-randall, according the article if I answer "no" the new config file will be placed at <full_conffile_path>.dpkg-dist
06:14<petn-randall>Ah, something like that, I've never put to much work into finding out the details about this.
06:14<petn-randall>*too
06:15<wyre>so then ... what's the difference between .dpkg-dist and .dpkg-new? 🤔
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06:31<wyre>why it isn't available asterisk-config-custom according this? https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/asterisk 🤔
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06:38<petn-randall>wyre: What do you expect a package asterisk-config-custom to do?
06:38<wyre>petn-randall, I guess nothing because it sounds like a custom config, but why is it mentioned even?
06:39<wyre>if there is no exist such package, I mean
06:39<jm_>so people can provide their own?
06:40<petn-randall>wyre: The dependency is "asterisk-config (= 1:16.16.1~dfsg-1) | asterisk-config-custom", so it means if you create a package asterisk-config-custom and install it, you don't need asterisk-config anymore.
06:40<petn-randall>wyre: I guess asterisk has a special reason to ship the config as a separate package, this is more of the exception than the norm.
06:40<wyre>oh, I see
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06:42<petn-randall>It's also quite unusual for a Debian package to depend on an package that you have to create. I've only really seen this with some game packages, where there's a tool (game-data-packager) to create .deb file from the original CDs.
06:42<petn-randall>But the reason there is that Debian is not allowed to ship the original data, because it's non-free and non-distributable.
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06:45<wyre>well, anyway now I know why is this, it actually makes sense because usually asterisk config is handled by FreePBX which is not actually a package but a web interface
06:45<wyre>so asterisk config management is a complex task by itself
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06:46<wyre>the whole point is that I've tried to upgrade asterisk/stable to asterisk/buster-backports and all those conffiles were generated
06:47<wyre>because asterisk depends on asterisk-config (or alternatively asterisk-config-custom as I've learned 😆)
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06:47<wyre>I was a little confused because I found this link https://manpages.debian.org/buster/asterisk/asterisk-config-custom.1.en.html
06:47<wyre>and I was wondering if that package actually existed
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06:55<wyre>so ... why that link then, petn-randall?
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07:02<petn-randall>wyre: Why what link? The man page? That exists in the package "asterisk".
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07:05<wyre>oh, I didn't notice it was a manpage 😥
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07:05<wyre>(my bad because it follows the same pattern that every manpages)
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07:06<petn-randall>The URL could have been a give-away, or the fact that the content says "manpage" several times ... ;)
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08:20<SCHAPiE9>⧸!\ TНIS ⅭᎻΑΝΝЕL ዘΑS ΜΟᏙΕᗪ TO IRᏟ.LIΒΕᎡΑ.ⲤHАΤ ﹟ᎻΑMᎡᎪDІO /!\
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08:21<GenTooMan>I would rather that someone put all that effort into something useful than just annoying people but ... Oh well.
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08:39<TheBigK>im configuring a ftp service in firewalld... is there a more intelligent way to just open a port range?
08:39<TheBigK>i mean... is there a way that i dont need to persistently open the port range?
08:40<ratrace>should be automatic via conntrack, but then I don't know firewalld (which is just a frontend to iptables/nftables)
08:40<TheBigK>conntrack can do something like that, can it? but does that work even with encryption?
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08:41<petn-randall>TheBigK: How are you exactly using ftpd? In the usual case (passive mode), you only need to open the listening port.
08:42<TheBigK>wait what?
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08:43<TheBigK>in the past i opened the port range defined in vsftpd.conf
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08:43<TheBigK>theres a helper way in firewalld i found... but its deprecated and ignored when i check the man page
08:43<grawity>petn-randall: passive mode means the server is a listener, yes, but typically you open a whole range of data ports, not just one
08:44<petn-randall>grawity: For what use case? I have to admit that I haven't used ftp in ages, I'm especially surprised that people use it with encryption.
08:44<petn-randall>!ftpmustdie
08:44<dpkg>FTP MUST DIE! http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie . For authenticated file transfer, ask me about <sftp>. For unauthenticated download, HTTP: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html . Debian ceased offering mirrors via FTP on 2017-11-01 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170425
08:45<grawity>no
08:45<grawity>fuck that link
08:45<grawity>I'm outta here
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08:45<petn-randall>?
08:45<ratrace>lolwut
08:45<spoonm>that was quite the reaction, wonder if they knew it was a bot
08:46<TheBigK>i might deactivate that service may be... and use sftp with chroot
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08:47<ratrace>If you don't really _have_ to use FTP, then by all means, don't :)
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08:47<TheBigK>when u encrypt it with tls... whats so bad about it
08:47<ratrace>only the control connection is encrypted. DATA is still plaintext.
08:48<grawity>it isn't
08:48<TheBigK>thats not true.. u can decide it... i believe? or i misunderstood this: force_local_data_ssl=yes
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08:48<grawity>ratrace: every FTPS implementation I've seen has had the ability to use TLS for data connections
08:49<TheBigK>checking the manpage i did not misunderstand
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08:51<grawity>petn-randall: I'm not exactly a fan of FTP, with its dependence on ALGs to begin with, but I have strong words about that page at wooledge and about people who kneejerk link to it without thinking much about the arguments and suggestions therein
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09:03<cheako>https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2021-June/058723.html xfconf-query question, I've gone down the rabbit hole looking at the implementation and decided asking Xorg folks would be best... but there are no-longer any Xorg folk.
09:04<grawity>that seems more of an Xfce-specific thing than Xorg tbh
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09:05<cheako>I fully understand the xfce code and it looks normal, there are a few assumptions made... I'm looking to fin the relevant Xorg code, so I can figure out what's happening.
09:05<cheako>*find
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10:50<madez>My Debian box receives local and (two) global IPv6 addresses behind a router but is not able to use the global IPv6 address. The local addresses are usable, and the global IPv6 addresses from other machines in the local network do work fine. Any ideas what could cause the problems with that one specific machine?
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11:07<petn-randall>madez: How are you testing it?
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11:08<madez>from on of the local machines: "ping6 $global_address_of_affected_machine"
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11:08<madez>Well, also from the router for the local network, for the same result, no ping answer
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11:11<madez>Nevermind, it is working now, but it's not clear to me why. it's a freedombox, and I set IPv6 to ignore in the cockpit interface. It still receives one global ipv6 address and that one works fine
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11:11<madez>I don't get why it still receives a global IPv6 address, and I don't get why it's working now. Maybe there is some conflict between daemons setting up IPv6
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11:19<madez>It lost the IPv6 address now. This now seems clear, as I set IPv6 to "ignore".
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11:26<ratrace>madez: do you firewall any icmpv6 types?
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11:30<madez>I set the interface to the "internal" zone and did not block anything. At one point, I had the freedombox directly facing the internet through a DMS setting in the router. Could it be the freedombox changed some settings that it did not revert after putting the freedombox again behind the router's NAT?
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11:30<madez>The router's firewall is openwrt's default. Since ping6 over other local machines work, I assume the router is not the issue.
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11:31<madez>DMZ* setting, I meant.
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11:31<ratrace>no idea what it does, but check that icmpv6 packets are not filtered. some firewalls might mistakenly allow only echo request-reply (aka "ping"), but ipv6 RA and friends, rely in multiple icmpv6 types/verbs
11:32<jhutchins>madez: There are still many flaws in the implementation of ipv6.
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11:51<Izty_>Hello, is there a way to tell my fans to run at a certain percentage of speed?
11:51<Izty_>I thought maybe echo "5" > /sys/class/...
11:51<Izty_>(for 5%)
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11:52<ratrace>,i fancontrol
11:52<judd>Package fancontrol (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: utility to control the fan speed. Version: 1:3.5.0-3; Size: 46.1k; Installed: 100k; Homepage: https://hwmon.wiki.kernel.org/lm_sensors
11:53<ratrace>no guarantees tho. if the bios/acpi doesn't support it, you can't control it from the software side
11:53<Izty_>fancontrol works on my computer. I didn't know I could tell it to run at a certain specific percentage
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11:53<Izty_>I'll look into it, thanks ratrace :)
11:54<ratrace>I don't know if you can tweak by %% . I know the package deals with fan speeds, so check there.
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11:55<ratrace>Izty_: seems the LinuxKnowledgeBase aka ArchWiki, has more on the subject, esp. wrt system brand: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/fan_speed_control
11:55<Izty_>ratrace: I was reading that. I'm actually trying to get a fan curve and there is a section "fancurve script"!
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11:59<jhutchins>Izty_: What is your actual purpose? Do you think your fans are not running fast enough? Are they running at full speed, and you want to slow them down?
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12:01<Izty_>jhutchins: I'm trying to use OpenBMC and for my board, there is a default fan curve in it and I've been told I need to adjust it for my fans
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12:02<Izty_>And I believe I do need to adjust it because it reports that some of my fans are failing at a certain percentage of speed, so it sets everything to max speed, but then max speed is correct so it decreases the speed
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12:03<Izty_>This is just so that when openbmc instructs my fans to run at a certain percentage, then reads the actual RPM in /sys/class/..., it reads the correct value and doesn't complain
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12:11<jhutchins>Izty_: How many systems are you managing?
12:12<Izty_>jhutchins: Just one :)
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12:12<jhutchins>Remote?
12:12<Izty_>Yes
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12:46<Izty_>I used pwmconfig, it generated a curve with PWM values from 0 to 255 and FAN value from 1000 to 7000..
12:46<Izty_>I wonder if these can be converted to percentages and RPM
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12:59<jhutchins>!openpwm
12:59<jhutchins>tzafrir: It really isn't a Debian issue.
13:00<jhutchins>Izty_: ^&
13:00<jhutchins>tzafrir: 'scuse.
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13:04<Izty_>Ok :(
13:05<jmcnaught>judd: file bin/pwmconfig
13:06<judd>Search for bin/pwmconfig in buster/amd64: fancontrol: usr/sbin/pwmconfig
13:08<jhutchins>Izty_: There doesn't really seem to be any support resources, it's mostly at the coder/developer stage.
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13:11<Izty_>jhutchins: I understand, no worries :)
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13:12<mentor>Izty_: If you were to get that far in, it possible to use an audio waterfall/frequency type app on a phone to see how fast things are going.
13:13<Izty_>mentor: I can get the RPM of my fans with the command `sensors`. I just need to tell them to go at a certain percentage of their speed
13:14<mentor>Izty_: Ah, I thought you were having trouble calibrating a fan value to RPM
13:15<Izty_>All I can see is hwmon1/device/pwm1, which takes a value from 0 to 255 it seems
13:15<Izty_>mentor: I'm trying to match a speed percentage to RPM
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13:35<jhutchins>Izty_: Do you know the maximum RPM?
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13:54<PaulePanter>Hi. If I want to contract a company/somebody to package BigBlueButton (and it’s components) for Debian, where can I find these?
13:54<PaulePanter>https://www.debian.org/consultants/index.de.html does not have an entry for Germany.
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13:56<jhutchins>PaulePanter: You might also ask in #debian on libera.chat
13:56<jhutchins>PaulePanter: Linux consultants are hard to find, most prefer steady work.
13:58<jmux>PaulePanter: there is also #debian.de here
13:59<FLHerne>PaulePanter: The page you link does have an entry for Germany? https://www.debian.org/consultants/index.de.html#DE
14:01<PaulePanter>FLHerne: Oh, I looked for *Deutschland*. ;-)
14:01<FLHerne>That would make sense, given the rest of the page is in German...
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14:35<jason1234>Hi
14:35<sney>hi
14:35<jason1234>Into boot-live, what is the command to establish by default networking to be up, from the boot loader grub ?
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14:36<jason1234>enp8s0 to be from grub2, in squashfs (boot-live/live-boot) to get the connection at start?
14:36<jason1234>by default, live-boot will modify the net, and put offline (force) the networking
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14:45<rangergord[m]>more of an oftc question than Debian, but this is the only channel I'm in. How can I remove the g usermode flag, so that anyone can send me private messages? Websearch results are atrocious. I tried "/umode -g mynick" but when I /whois mynick (not this nick, different account) it says "mynick is in +g mode (server side ignore)". I also tried "/umode +j mynick" hoping it would override +g, but no.
14:45<rangergord[m]>(+j is to allow anyone registerede to PM you, +g is where no one can PM you unless you whitelist them)
14:46<jason1234>no idea, I cant use irc well. maybe manpage of freenode on freenode.org still exists.
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14:48<rangergord[m]>Freenode says to do "/mode nickname -g" and when I do it on OFTC I get "Usermode change: -g", but when I whois myself it still says "othernick is in +g mode (server side ignore)".
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14:48<rangergord[m]>They shouldn't be implementing security features without providing simple documention of how to undo them :/
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14:49<rangergord[m]>we're not all writing IRC daemons for funs
14:49<jmcnaught>rangergord[m]: '/mode mynick -j' worked for me, so did +j
14:50<rangergord[m]>aha, -j removed the +g from my whois! That doesn't really make sense to me, that -j works but not -g, but OK.
14:51<rangergord[m]>thanks!
14:53-!-rangergord[m] is now known as rangergord
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15:45-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian
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15:45-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian-next #debian.or.at #debian
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15:52<xcc6>does anyone here use a generic USB game controller for gaming on debian? i'm wondering if there's anything which can emulate xbox controllers, since that's what most games support. in windows there is x360ce as an example
15:53-!-fredhgl [~fredhgl@2804:14c:65d2:8d5f:a828:bb29:dc15:243d] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
15:53<ajak>like.. a usb xbox controller?
15:53<ajak>i think you can bluetooth some of them too but i personally never have
15:55-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@00014f22.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Life is short. Get a V.90 modem fast!]
15:55<xcc6>no it's not an xbox controller. it's a generic usb controller. but most big games only support xbox controllers, so in windows there are tools which emulate those. i found one in debian repos called xboxdrv but it's CLI only and really difficult for a newbie like me to figure out
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15:58-!-glouniche is "realname" on #redditprivacy #debian
16:00<jhutchins>: http://www.linuxcommand.org/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/20/terminal1.html http://www.ischool.berkeley.edu/~kevin/unix-tutorial/toc.html http://linuxcommand.org/lc3_learning_the_shell.php http://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
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16:10<YaroslavLucher-t>⧸ⵑ\ ΤHΙS CHАⲚⲚЕᏞ HAЅ ⅯOVᎬᎠ ТО ΙRⅭ.LIВΕᎡA.ϹⲎΑТ #ⲎΑⅯRᎪᗪΙO /!\
16:10-!-YaroslavLucher-t is "YaroslavLucher-t" on #virt #tor #qemu #debian #ceph-orchestrators #linukso #nuug
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16:16-!-czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #linux #debian-next #debian
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16:17-!-debacle is "debacle" on #quodlibet #debian-next #debian
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16:22-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian
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16:25-!-howl is "David Santamaría Rogado" on #debian
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16:29-!-wild3 is "Wil" on #debian
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16:36<jhutchins>At least the spam serves to let people know about the new net.
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16:37-!-gdb is "Christofer C. Bell" on #debian
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16:40*enyc meows
16:40<alex11>yeah but i feel bad for the ham radio folks
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16:48-!-hendursa1 is "weechat" on #robigalia #debian #postmarketos #mitmproxy #kernelnewbies
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16:52-!-kwilczynski is "Krzysztof Wilczyński" on #debian #kvm #linux-plumbers-townhall #kernelnewbies #linux #qemu #linux-rt #mm #ck #C
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16:56<jimpop>those 2 folks will be fine
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17:07<jhutchins>331 folks.
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17:08<jhutchins>jipege: Only two on this net tho, you're right
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17:08-!-deren is "..." on #mt76-devel #debian
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17:31-!-_Noisytoot is "Ron" on #oftc #debian #debian-next #tor
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18:09<andrew__>when I install debian, does it auto-delete the packages download cache after it's done?
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18:10<andrew__>or does it keep a cache of installed packages (like arch)? in /var/cache/apt/archives/ I can only see packages that I installed after installing the system, is this is the only cache dir?
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18:14<andrew__>I want to install debian on another computer but I have limited internet qouta so I want to use my current installation as a base or maybe clone it
18:14<sarnold>andrew__: that's the only cache directory; if you check the apt-get manpage for 'autoclean' you can find a configuration setting that controls some aspects of the cache
18:16<sarnold>andrew__: you could set up squid-deb-proxy or apt-cacher-ng, configure both systems to use it, and get more use out of your bandwidth. it might not help you much immediately but over time it'll help
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18:29<andrew__>how can I "clone" my install to avoid redownloading everything?
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18:29<sney>you can take an image of the disk, for instance with partclone
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18:30<sney>then use that image as the base of your subsequent installs, you'll just need to change the hostnames etc
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18:36<andrew__>okay, thanks
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18:39<sarnold>oh hah, nice and simple
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19:30<jhutchins>Is there a well doccumented method of changing the system keys and such?
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19:30<sarnold>which keys?
19:31<jhutchins>The system keys that are supposed to be unique, I'm mostly thinking ssh but could be tls and such.
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19:32<sarnold>tls might be as easy as "set up acme" and let letsencrypt handle it
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19:43<localhorst>https://wiki.debian.org/SSH#Regenerating_host_keys
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21:19<iateadonut>The character special files /dev/random and /dev/urandom (present since Linux 1.3.30) provide an interface to the kernel's random number generator. The file /dev/random has major device number 1 and minor device number 8.
21:19<iateadonut>what are major/minor devices?
21:19-!-ddsys [~ddsys@0002a5a5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:19<sarnold>major and minor numbers describe block and character devices
21:20<sarnold>try an ls -l /dev -- note the patterns on some of the files, eg...
21:20<sarnold>crw--w---- 1 root tty 4, 6 May 12 11:05 tty6
21:20<sarnold>crw--w---- 1 root tty 4, 60 May 12 11:05 tty60
21:21<sarnold>tty6 has 4,6, tty60 has 4,60 in the output..
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21:24<imMute>iateadonut: shortly, they're how the kernel knows which device node is which. it knows the random number generator is 1,8 it doesn't care that it's called "/dev/random" - it could be called "/dev/whateveryouwant" and as long as the device numbers are 1,8 it'll get handled correctly
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21:28<notsure>sorry for not using #debian-kde it needs registering but I did not setup my password management; but is Discover a good package manager front it? I installed KDE but I'm fear that it will not use apt as a backend so it would start managing it's own stuff
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21:28<notsure>frontend*
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21:29<sney>discover is an apt frontend
21:30<sney>specifically, it uses packagekit
21:30<iateadonut>a hard disk partition, rather than an entire hard disk, is a block device?
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21:31<notsure>great, so I guess I can use it safely without worrying about making a lot of untracked files right?
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21:33<notsure>oh I see, just checked it's settings
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21:33<sney>notsure: correct
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21:34<notsure>thanks
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21:36<sarnold>iateadonut: full hard drives, and individual partitions on hard drives, are block devices, yes
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22:29<Guest1795>。。
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22:32<natefoo>/!⧵ ТHΙS CΗᎪNNEᒪ HAS ᎷΟVED TΟ ΙRC.ᏞIΒEᎡA.ϹHΑT #ΗAⅯRΑDIO ᜵ⵑ\
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22:34<dvs>All your channel are belong to us
22:34<alex11>take off every zig
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22:42<sussudio>hm another russian ip. 90. is usually south america.
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23:14<notsure>I want to understand something, are stuff like this https://wiki.debian.org/Qt4Removal make people say "Linux is not backward compatible"?
23:16<sussudio>those are weasel words, notsure. read the link.
23:17<sarnold>also things like https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.8.html#api-and-feature-removals
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23:18<sarnold>also things like https://developer.gnome.org/Deprecations/
23:18<notsure>ouch, I see
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23:19<alex11>depends on the person saying it
23:19<alex11>but if they are it would be a pretty dumb argument
23:19<alex11>i'm sure bsd isn't different
23:20<alex11>like, stuff gets deprecated
23:20<notsure>well, young (so young) windows users
23:20<sarnold>oh sure if you ran python or gtk or qt stuff on bsd you'd have the same set of issues
23:20<alex11>bsd has more userland consistency AFAIK but i don't think linux constantly changes things
23:20<alex11>not userland
23:20<alex11>that's not what i meant
23:21<alex11>but a few of the core tools tend to not change, but i'm not a bsd user
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23:23<alex11>but yeah leaving qt4 around would be dumb and a waste of time
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23:23<notsure>I guess I see now how backward compatibility works, so it's just Microsoft providing super LTS base libraries? while on unix-like having vendors that focuses on moving forward
23:24<notsure>like qt, python, gtk, etc
23:26<cheako>I like Linus's take on it... (My take on it: )Having libraries like that is planned obsolesces, but for applications that would otherwise be good for longer.
23:26<alex11>to be fair linus is only talking about/dealing with the kernel
23:27<alex11>it has nothing to do with other things
23:27<cheako>The solution to the problem is not to write ABIs that you'd feel like changing later.
23:28<cheako>Perhaps, not really trying to speak for others... just saying when I her him speak about it I feel like I'm hearing myself.
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23:32<sarnold>yeah, some communities like the linux kernel and the latex/tex ecosystem want to provide decades of consistency; other communities want to replace everything they do every few years
23:32<sarnold>most fall somewhere in the middle
23:33<sarnold>notsure: you may enjoy https://abi-laboratory.pro/ -- it only covers ABI-level stuff, so eg the python "oh yeah that's not how you print output any more" things won't show up, but it's certainly useful for what it does cover
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23:35<alex11>also yeah if we're going to celebrate microsoft as a paragon of compatibility let's also not gloss over the history of changing file formats between word versions or whatever it was
23:35<alex11>to specifically make other products incompatible
23:37<alex11>(tangentially it makes me sad how many of the things that brought me such joy as a kid turned out to be crap like microsoft and yahoo's practices)
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23:41<notsure>wait, so theoretically if you wrote an app that relays only on the standard C library (like absolute standards), and something like OpenGL you can have a thing that would work on any linux that have those libraries? so the only problem is other libraries?
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23:41<sarnold>notsure: opengl is where that gets a bit iffy, I'm not sure how long those APIs last, but yeah, there's a very good shot that'd work fine two decades later
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 12 00:00:08 2021