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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-15

---Logopened Tue Jun 15 00:00:00 2021
---Daychanged Tue Jun 15 2021
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00:39<notsure>why do we have gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 but for qt we only have qt5?
00:40<notsure>isn't it better for compatibility to have qt4 too?
00:40<themill>because we managed to get rid of Qt4 ­— it's not better to have unmaintained software around that has known vulnerabilities.
00:40<themill>(also, Qt6 is already on the way…)
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00:44<notsure>so is writing GUI apps by gtk better?
00:45<notsure>wait there is no libgtk+2.0 on bullseye
00:45<Dresden>notsure: I like wxWidgets
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00:46<notsure>I mean if the base GUI libraries keep getting deprecated and stops existing on some distros, I can imagine that you will always have to keep developing the exact same software forever just to keep it working
00:47<themill>gtk has compatibility problems between their minor releases too
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00:47<themill>it's not that Qt4 just stopped existing in "some distros", the Qt developers stopped fixing its problems which means its not a tenable library any more and everyone needs to migrate
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00:48<themill>and yes, that is an issue because some things don't migrate and are then lost… and we have seen that with each migration from Qt3/4/5, python2→3.
00:48<notsure>yeah I see it's not really distros fault
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00:49<Dresden>notsure: seriously man I like wxWidgets A LOT
00:49<themill>We also see that with C and C++ compilers becoming more picky over time and old code suddenly doesn't compile any more
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00:49<Dresden>The event tables thing helps keep things scalable I do not like slots and signals
00:51<notsure>that sucks
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00:55<notsure>I mean if you are writing standard C/C++ shouldn't it just keep working?
00:56<themill>fsvo standard
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00:59<sussudio>so... freenode split into two now? this could all have been avoided if the usurpers just started their own irc network in the first place.
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01:03<MTecknology>yup... we now have leenode and libera; personally, I prefer oftc
01:04<sussudio>no, not libera...
01:04<GreaseMonkey>personally i prefer the other net... just kidding, i'm more familiar with libera
01:04<GreaseMonkey>the other net being the one with the most servers
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01:04<sussudio>they split today into 2 networks. the other one is calling it a fork and "new freenode".
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01:05<GreaseMonkey>also a quick q, where would be a good place to be aware of when the next kernel is going to hit unstable? i have a hifive unmatched and the kernel i've got kinda sucks
01:05<MTecknology>sussudio: right, the official leenode
01:05<sussudio>the other one says "Atheme" now.
01:05<GreaseMonkey>i prefer the term "threenode" at this point as it's mainly 3 networks
01:06<themill>GreaseMonkey: a new kernel is unlikely to hit unstable until after bullseye releases.
01:06<themill>there's a chance it will get to experimental, depending on how much time the kernel team has on their hands
01:06<GreaseMonkey>ouch, i take it i'll most likely have to find a good place to build my own then?
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01:09<sussudio>why would you need a place to build a kernel
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01:14<MTecknology>For debian, I typically just used a chroot to build kernels.
01:16<kenyon>pretty easy, `make deb-pkg`
01:18<MTecknology>I was using menuconfig and building a single itty-bitty monolithic kernel. I didn't make a package, I just copied the kernel file and ran update-grub.
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02:14<_Andrew>If you have bullseye non-free installed on a nvidia notebook is the external HDMI port expected to just "work"?
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02:18<vv221>apteryx, the code handling the .deb generation is in https://forge.dotslashplay.it/play.it/scripts/-/blob/master/play.it-2/src/45_packages_deb.sh
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02:30<_Andrew>In the wiki it says theoretically I don't need to do anything. So should I report this somewhere as a bug?
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02:39<jm_>_Andrew: is nvidia the only card present?
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02:41<_Andrew>00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation CometLake-H GT2 [UHD Graphics] (rev 05)
02:41<_Andrew>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GA106M [GeForce RTX 3060 Mobile / Max-Q] (rev a1)
02:41<_Andrew>These two
02:41<_Andrew>I'm reading the wiki on this, so sorry if I'm a little slow on the uptake
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02:42<_Andrew>There are 4 different ways it seems to do this and even installing the nvidia driver presents you with a bunch of different options
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02:42<_Andrew>So just trying to understand the wiki for my situation
02:42<jm_>https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus might help
02:43<_Andrew>Yeah that's the page I started on :D
02:43<jm_>ohh sorry
02:43<_Andrew>From my understanding I just need to install the nvidia driver
02:43<_Andrew>and Xorg already has patches to make everything work in bullseye
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02:44<_Andrew>I guess I'll just try a few things and go from there
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04:27<otisolsen70>I have an IoT device running Buster. I have added eth0 to /etc/network/interfaces as "auto eth0" and "iface eth0 inet dhcp" as well as "auto eth0:0" and "iface eth0:0 iface inet static" and then given it a static address and netmask. However when booting the device, I am unable to ping the static address. Is there anything I am missing? Could NM be interfering? If so, what do I need to prevent that?
04:27<otisolsen70>I have no keyboard or monitor on this device. But I can offline edit the image on its disk and put it back on. But it does take fairly long each time.
04:28<grawity>hmm, usually /etc/network/interfaces is processed by ifupdown (so dhclient etc), not NetworkManager?
04:29<otisolsen70>grawity, yes. That is what I mean when asking if NM can be doing something. I am not very familiar with NM and I see that it is present on the system. So not sure if it can interfere somehow.
04:29<tia3100>interfaces mentioned in /etc/network/intefraces are not managed by NM
04:29<grawity>it could -- I'm not sure if it still has the plugin thing that makes it exclude ifupdown-managed interfaces or not
04:30<tia3100>It won't manage them if not set as such in configuration
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04:30<tia3100>by default it isn't managed
04:30<grawity>but if you don't intend on using it, especially on an IoT device, I wouldn't even keep NM installed
04:30<tia3100>You can delete it, but I am unsure what depends on it
04:30<ratrace>otisolsen70: the :0 aliasing is no longer used by interfaces(5). just add another iface eth0 inet static stanza
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04:31<ratrace>otisolsen70: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#iproute2_method
04:31<tia3100>I checked,d you can remove network-manager, it doesn't seem to be important for anything core wise
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04:35<otisolsen70>ratrace, so adding something like this would not work? https://paste.yt/p15263.html
04:38<ratrace>otisolsen70: I can't say with 100% certainty that the old aliasing method is no longer backwards compatible supported, BUT the new iproute method just requires another iface stanza, no need for ":0"
04:38<otisolsen70>ratrace, having added the stanzas here: https://paste.yt/p15263.html shouldnt it at least not be reachable by one of these addresses? Or get one from DHCP?
04:38<ratrace>also netmask is deprecated, so you can use the CIDR format for the address directive
04:39<ratrace>you just need one auto eth0 and then two iface eth0 inet static (without :0 ) each with its own address in CIDR format
04:39<otisolsen70>ratrace, NetworkManager.conf looks like this: https://paste.yt/p15264.html <- could the ifupdown section be causing network/interfaces file to be ignored?
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04:39<ratrace>yes and it should ignore them
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04:40<otisolsen70>ratrace, like this? https://paste.yt/p15265.html
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04:40<otisolsen70>ratrace, so I need to change managed=false to managed=true in NM's conf?
04:41<tia3100>otisolsen70: No, it is supposed to be managed=false
04:41<ratrace>otisolsen70: hold on ... to do what? typically you do NOT want NM to handle static interfaces, and/or interfaces that are managed by interfaces(5) . in which case, managed=false is correct, don't change it
04:41<tia3100>That means NM is not managing interfaces definced for ifupdown
04:41<otisolsen70>ratrace, I just need some way to remotely connect to the device.
04:41<otisolsen70>ratrace, I do not care if it is NM or not. I just thought it would be easier to use network/interfaces
04:41<ratrace>otisolsen70: again, no :0 or :1 needed, just twice this: iface eth0 inet static\n\taddress ..../24 with appropriate values of course
04:42<ratrace>\n is newline \t is tab or whatever indent
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04:42<ratrace>otisolsen70: then don't change NetworkManager.conf defaults
04:42<otisolsen70>ratrace, cleaned it up. Like this? https://paste.yt/p15267.html
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04:43<ratrace>otisolsen70: yes but the iface lines should not be indented. also you have a conflict, it's either dhcp or static
04:43<ratrace>or actually... I'm not 100% sure on that either... logic dictates they're in conflict, but given the way multiple IPs are confiugred, maybe it's not a conflict at all
04:45<otisolsen70>ratrace, normally I can have both eth0 being dhcp and then eth0:0 being an extra static address, right?
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04:45<otisolsen70>Like for emergencies
04:45<ratrace>otisolsen70: yeah I wasn't sure about that. maybe it works and they're not in conflict.
04:46<ratrace>otisolsen70: note however that assigning static addresses outside the dhcp range might not be routable by the upstream router
04:46<otisolsen70>ratrace, I do not need it routable.
04:46<otisolsen70>But good point
04:46<ratrace>then what's the point in having them?
04:46<otisolsen70>ratrace, I am on LAN with the device
04:47<ratrace>yes and another device, unless physically on the same wire/hub, might not be able to reach your NIC using IP ranges the router isn't configured for
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04:48<otisolsen70>ratrace, the router is not touching the packets if I am on the same switch.
04:48<ratrace>switch or hub?
04:48<otisolsen70>switch
04:48<grawity>doesn't matter, both forward L2 packets regardless of IP address
04:48<otisolsen70>grawity, exactly
04:49<ratrace>depends on the switch and its configuration, does it not?
04:49<grawity>no
04:49<ratrace>well my switches beg to difer :)
04:49<grawity>unless you went all out with ACLs or IP spoofing protections and stuff
04:49<ratrace>but anyway... as long as you're aware of _potential_ routability issues, all is fine.
04:49<grawity>but if it cares about IP addresses for routing purposes, it's no longer a switch: you've turned it into a router
04:50<ratrace>the switches I work with are aware of subnets per port
04:50<grawity>yeah so you turned them into routers more or less
04:50<ratrace>I suppose you can call it a router. but irrelevant. point being, we're not aware of otisolsen70's network topology, and I'm only saying s/he should mind the potential routability issues. 'sall.
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04:52<otisolsen70>ratrace, yes, that is a good point. And it is noted. I am aware of the issue. And it is not a problem in this particular case. Because I only need some way to obtain remote access the device from the network as I have no keybaord or monitor access. When I have remote access I will likely configure the network in a different way. along with a lot of other stuff. But now I just need it working
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05:22<otisolsen70>grawity, ratrace: What I see when I boot it up now is that it actually briefly requests and receives a DHCP address (observing from the dhcpd logs). But I am unable to ping it.
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05:25<otisolsen70>https://paste.yt/p15268.html
05:25<otisolsen70>^ this is the log from the dhcpd when the device boots up.
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05:26*grawity thinks the whole "static + DHCP" thing is possibly waste of effort and it'd be easier to use the IPv6 link-local address (fe80::...) for management purposes
05:27<otisolsen70>grawity, none of my other network equipment supports v6, so I think I will have to use v4 for this
05:28<otisolsen70>grawity, isnt is strange that it actually asks for IP via dhcp and gets it and then I cannot ping it?
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05:30<otisolsen70>Do I need to uncomment anything in /etc/default/networking? It is currently only comments
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05:33<Maduro51>Intento cargar una página en torbrowser y me sale una página de la mierda de google diciendo: "Nuestros sistemas han detectado tráfico inusual procedente de tu red de ordenadores. Vuelve a intentar enviar la solicitud más tarde. ¿Por qué ha sucedido esto?"
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05:34<Maduro51>Si la página que intento cargar no tiene nada que ver con goolgle, ¿Porqué me sale una página de los servidores del puto google? No lo entiendo. ¿Quien les dió vela en este entierro? ¿Alguien me puede explicar porque sale google por medio y si hay forma de evitarlos?
05:34<petn-randall>!es
05:34<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
05:35<Maduro51>Ok
05:35<petn-randall>Maduro51: ^^^ if you want an answer here, you must ask in english.
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05:35<sussudio>scorchio chris waddle?
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05:36<Maduro51>I try to load a page in torbrowser and I get a crappy google page saying, "Our systems have detected unusual traffic coming from your computer network. Please try submitting the request again later, why did this happen?"
05:36<otisolsen70>If I create /etc/rc.local on a debian buster installation. Is it then executed during boot up?
05:36<Maduro51>If the page I'm trying to load has nothing to do with goolgle, why do I get a page from the fucking google servers? I don't understand, who gave them a candle in this funeral? Can someone explain me why google is in the way and if there is a way to avoid them?
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05:37<petn-randall>!rc.local
05:37<dpkg>/etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch or newer you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd>
05:37<petn-randall>otisolsen70: ^
05:37<otisolsen70>petn-randall, thanks!
05:38<petn-randall>otisolsen70: In general it's better to write a systemd unit instead of using rc.local. If something block in rc.local, it'll prevent the system from finishing booting, and there's no way to check the success of those commands.
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05:38<petn-randall>Maduro51: I guess whatever site it is, it's using google bot protection.
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05:39<otisolsen70>petn-randall, yes, I agree. But I just need something simple and temporary. I need to get remote access to an IoT device that is acting up. If I can add an rc.local and have it do something on boot up that might be a way to debug this furhter.
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05:43<grawity>otisolsen70: I'm having doubts regarding that -- unless you literally built your own kernel, your Debian PC supports IPv6, and your Windows PC supports IPv6, etc.
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05:43<Maduro51>Ok, nobody knows.
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05:55<petn-randall>Maduro51: But you got an answer?
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05:56<codeburn>hello
05:56<petn-randall>hi codeburn
05:56<ratrace>someone better tell Maduro51 about Google AMP program before s/he gets a heart attack :)
05:57<codeburn>can i know how to uninstall applications in linux
05:57<ratrace>codeburn: on debian, you use the `apt` package manager to install, deinstall and upgrade programs.
05:58<petn-randall>codeburn: What OS did you install?
05:58<codeburn>debian based.
05:58<sussudio>well, that nick registration dropping nonsense was the last drop... gfy "freenode".
05:58<petn-randall>codeburn: That's not really an answer, though.
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06:00<codeburn>hi
06:01<petn-randall>welcome back
06:02<codeburn>yap!
06:02<codeburn>i am currently using parrot os
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06:03<Maduro51>petn-randall: No, i didnt get an answer, but i've found it by myself. The web page i was trying to open is in fact a CNAME for a google subdomain. Thanks you anyway.
06:04<petn-randall>Maduro51: We couldn't have told you that because you never mentioned the domain.
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06:06<Maduro51>I didn't know that existed. Thanks again and sorry for the inconvenience.
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06:07<petn-randall>Maduro51: What you'll see a lot browing with tor is that a lot of CDN will ask you for captchas. There's nothing you can do about that, though.
06:08<Izty_>Hello, how can I change my main hard drive?
06:08-!-codeburn [~codeburn@2409:4070:4097:57e:9b70:43ad:7d87:5625] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:08<jm_>define change
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06:08<Izty_>I'd like to change my hard drive for an ssd. Ideally without reinstalling the os
06:08<petn-randall>Izty_: What OS are you running?
06:08<Izty_>I mean, swap drive
06:08<Izty_>petn-randall: Debian
06:08<jm_>boot with rescue medium (d-i will do), copy over, install boot loader
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06:09<sussudio>!debian clone
06:09<dpkg>One method of cloning Debian installs is to take a current Debian machine that is set up with the packages you want and run the command "dpkg --get-selections > ~/selectionfile". Then, after the base install on other machines use that file and do: "dpkg --set-selections < ~/selectionfile && apt-get dselect-upgrade". Also ask me about <aptitude clone>, <reinstall>, <things to backup> <apt-clone>.
06:09<another>I'd partition, format, copy
06:09<Izty_>petn-randall: Debian 10. 4.19.0-16-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.181-1 (2021-03-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux
06:09<petn-randall>Izty_: Ideally you'd just copy the filesystem contents over, especially when the disk sizes are different.
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06:10<Izty_>Disk size are different
06:10<ratrace>use sgdisk to copy partition layout, mount, rsync -aHAX everything, unshare -m, mount dev,sys,proc, chroot, install grub, update grub, adjust fstab, crypttab for new UUIDs.
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06:11<petn-randall>Izty_: In that case create a filesystem layout on the new SSD, copy the hole filesystem contents over, and reinstall grub on the SSD.
06:11<petn-randall>*whole
06:12<Izty_>sussudio: This wouldn't keep all my configuration files, right?
06:12<ratrace>iirc sgdisk will adjust the last partition for new size, for -R (copying layout from one disk to another)
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06:13<ratrace>Izty_: yeah that's not the clone you're looking for :)
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06:13<Izty_>jm_: "install boot loader", as in "grub-install /dev/sdb" if my new drive is on sdb?
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06:14<jm_>Izty_: yup, just pass the new device file like that
06:14<ratrace>you should run grub-install from the chroot of the new environment. it's my experience that using grub outside of it will often fail during boot
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06:14<jm_>yeah use chroot
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06:17<Izty_>ratrace: Is there a page (on the wiki maybe) with more details? I'm not familiar with sgdisk and unshare.
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06:18<Izty_>petn-randall: A filesystem layout is like a partition layout, right?
06:19<petn-randall>Izty_: create the partition and filesystems as you see fit, and then copy over, yeah.
06:19<ratrace>Izty_: no idea. sgdisk is just one of the partitioning tools, and it can copy one (gpt) layout to another drive with -R . I don't know if other tools can do that, but you're not obliged to use sgdisk
06:19<ratrace>Izty_: unshare -m is needed to namespace mounts for chroot or else you'll have issues unmounting due /sys and /dev submounts and subnamespaces
06:20<Izty_>petn-randall: Ok :). It might actually be a good time to adjust my partitions. Maybe I could set up lvm so if I need to edit them in the future it'll be easier
06:20<ratrace>(so you don't need to `umount`, just `exit` the shell started by `unshare`)
06:21<petn-randall>Izty_: Totally go with LUKS2 and LVM. Or, if you're feeling adventurous, use btrfs. :)
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06:22<Izty_>ratrace: Thanks for the details. I'm not sure I'm using GPT. I might use MBR. I forgot how to check
06:23<jm_>fdisk -l shall tell you
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06:24<Izty_>petn-randall: I'm not sure about LUKS2. It's a server so in case it reboots because of power outage and I'm not there, it won't be able to boot on its own, right?
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06:24<Izty_>jm_: Yes it says "dos"
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06:24<another>there are packages with ssh in initram
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06:25<petn-randall>Izty_: Look up "dropbear initramfs" is you'd like to explore how it works.
06:25<Izty_>ratrace: Is sgdisk relevant if I'm not using GPT?
06:25<Izty_>another: Ok, great!
06:25<Izty_>petn-randall: Ok I'll look it up, thanks
06:25<ratrace>Izty_: it won't be able to boot on its own, you'd have to actively unlock it over ssh (using the dropbear sshd mentioned above), or whip up some other solution for unattended key fetching
06:26<petn-randall>Izty_: You could even add the key to /boot, that way you only have to wipe a smaller part of the data before giving the server back.
06:27<ratrace>if the disk is responsive enough to the kernel to be wiped at all
06:28<Izty_>petn-randall: I didn't get the "wipe part of the data". What do you mean by this?
06:28<petn-randall>Chances are higher that that one sector containing the LUKS key works, vs the whole disk.
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06:30<ratrace>yes. but I'd prefer taking no chances at all. keeping the key on the same physical drive with the LUKS container it unlocks is like keeping the key to your front door under the mat.
06:30<Izty_>I wonder if LUKS is a good idea because it would require a manual intervention to boot and since it's a server, it's already running all the time. I'm not sure how it works but does that mean the drive is already decrypted all the time?
06:30<ratrace>I mean, what's the point of using LUKS at all then. and it's not like you need to sacrifice ten goats and give off your next newborn, to have your way with LUKS'd rootfs without exposing the key on the same disk
06:31<ratrace>you only need to sacrifice two goats.
06:31<grawity>many servers have a TPM, which could be used to prevent one from physically taking out the disks or otherwise tampering with the boot process, while still allowing automatic LUKS unlock in the "normal" state
06:32<ratrace>Izty_: since that's a server, depending on what you store on it it may be: a) not a requirement, b) a requirement, c) a LEGAL requirement
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06:33<ratrace>grawity: my treat vector is "the techinician is being authorized and is taking the disk out after I requested a replacement; the techinician is disposing of the disk in ways unknown to me"
06:33<ratrace>threat even. treats are for silly rabits.
06:33<Izty_>grawity: Ok :)
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06:36<Izty_>ratrace: Ok I see
06:37<Izty_>I need to give it smoe more thoughts because in case a power outage happens and I'm not aware of it
06:38<ratrace>Izty_: surely you've got monitoring that'd make you aware of it.
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06:39<Izty_>ratrace: Monitoring on another device you mean?
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06:40<ratrace>yes
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06:40<ratrace>Izty_: even something as simple as using Pingdom or any of its (free-er) competitors, so you get an email if the ping fails
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06:41<Izty_>ratrace: Right! I've got an app already set up on my phone that does this
06:41<Izty_>why did I not think about it haha
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06:46<Izty_>Thanks a lot for the info everyone :). Bbye!
06:47<petn-randall>cya Izty_
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06:57<stotpo>Hi, I've had a problem with gnome-shell automounting external HDD with the following errors https://paste.debian.net/1201302/
06:58<stotpo>I've checked if this UUID existed but I couldn't find any reference to it in the system anywhere except for syslog,
06:58<ratrace>stotpo: Filesystem has duplicate UUID 2dad0058-9a60-4091-96b3-cd95e429a206
06:58<grawity>sounds like the HDD is slightly flaky and it gets re-detected rapidly
06:58<stotpo>I was able to mount the sdd1 using mount -o nouuid
06:58<grawity>i.e. it first got detected as sdc, mounted, then got re-detected as sdd before the kernel even realized that sdc is now gone
06:59<ratrace>makes sense
06:59<grawity>hmm no, timestamps don't exactly confirm that, but
06:59<grawity>it does seem very similar nevertheless
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07:00<stotpo>grawity: Thanks for pointing that out, Looks like I'm getting old I did Not see sdc believe it or not but yes that's about it if it was detected sdc then sdd that's probably what's happening
07:00<stotpo>grawity: I'll try checking dmesg -T
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07:03<stotpo>grawity: I could only see sdd so I'm not sure if it happened during this session at all ! which suggests a much longer time than we're guessing between being detected as sdc then when it was detected as sdd. Do you agree ?
07:03<stotpo>grawity: only thing I might think of telling by the timestamp in syslog is if I'm having some sort of a problem with system time but I doubt it
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07:05<stotpo>grawity: but kernel realizing that sdc is now gone could be a result of hibernation/suspending ?
07:05<stotpo>grawity: kernel Not realizing I meant to say
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07:05<stotpo>While it was still attached/plugged to USB
07:06<yakubin>stotpo: "duplicate UUID" for xfs filesystems is a common problem.
07:06<yakubin>stotpo: you need to reset the the UUID to a unique one.
07:07<yakubin>wait a moment, maybe i'll find it in my shell history.
07:07<stotpo>grawity: And this is my actual question Is it possible to suspend, close the Laptop's lid then have it _The external HDD_ automatically restore to the previous state before the system was suspended ?
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07:08<stotpo>yakubin: I tried but seems that it had valuable log that needed to be replayed by mounting
07:08<yakubin>seems to be gone from my history, but...
07:08<yakubin>stotpo: <https://computingforgeeks.com/how-to-solve-xfs-filesystem-has-duplicate-uuid-error/>
07:08<stotpo>yakubin: when I mounted it using option -o nouuid that did Not seem to help to next change its UUID
07:09<stotpo>yakubin: Thanks, will check it now, The main reason I asked here cause I had some browsing taps open and on-going work session and I couldn't restore the mount point it happened a couple of times so I thought I'd check with you guys.
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07:12<stotpo>yakubin: Is there an option to check what's in the log that needs to be replayed or changes to XFS that needs to be written/become permanent ? Or there's something broken with my understanding of the FS replayed log ?
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07:16<yakubin>stotpo: you'd have to ask someone more knowledgable than me. i only know you need to do these steps, because i encountered issues with mounting multiple xfs partitions myself and they were caused by diplicated UUIDs. generating new UUIDs fixed the issues.
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07:17<ratrace>in general I dislike "automagic", like the gnome automounter, for various reasons that caused me a lot of grief over time.
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07:20<petn-randall>TBH if you have a UUID collision on your system, mount will fluke, too.
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07:22<stotpo>petn-randall: I have to agree especially that I had to use the nouuid option when mounting it manually
07:24<yakubin>yeah. i had issues without using an automounter.
07:24<stotpo>TBH reason why I care too much isn't just to solve my problem instead of rebooting, It's because I care to have this behavior fixed at least in Debian
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07:25<yakubin>generally, there is something wrong with how xfs creates partitions that it seems to assign the same UUID repeatedly.
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07:25<petn-randall>stotpo: It's not a bug in Debian. It's a admin mistake to have duplicate UUIDs. They *should* be unique by definition.
07:25<yakubin>although maybe that's fixed in newer versions. not sure.
07:25<stotpo>I don't know about the behavior in other distros under the same conditions
07:26<stotpo>petn-randall: That's the catch I did Not set those UUIDs
07:26<yakubin>well, the bug isn't that it's not mounting. the bug is with generating UUIDs when creating new partitions.
07:26<yakubin>same here.
07:26<stotpo>petn-randall: And I know it wasn't done by someone else simply only me setup and use this one
07:26<yakubin>when you use ext4, automatically assigned UUIDs are unique.
07:27<yakubin>but with xfs there's something wrong here.
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07:27<stotpo>I owe you guys an apology I forgot to mention this is Debian 11 bullseye with kernel 5.10.0-7-rt-amd64
07:28<ratrace>stotpo: did you duplicate the filesystems somehow? dd ?
07:28<yakubin>happened to me on debian 10 ages ago as well. no dd. just mkfs.
07:28<ratrace>stotpo: -rt- ?
07:29<stotpo>ratrace: No it's not duplicated but perhaps it was created _It's a portable external_ on a different older system
07:29<petn-randall>!debian-next
07:29<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on libera.chat nor freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc
07:29<petn-randall>stotpo: Let's continue this discussion there? ^^^
07:29<stotpo>petn-randall: Yes please !
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07:49<yakubin>fwiw, the only way i'm reproducing it now (on Debian 10) is when i run "mkfs.xfs -f /dev/sdb1". the PART_ENTRY_UUID in "blkid --probe" output stays the same. but UUID changes. if i create a new partition table with parted, everything changes.
07:54<stotpo>yakubin: with blkid --probe stays the same as what exactly ?
07:55<yakubin>stotpo: before and after the "mkfs.xfs -f" the PART_ENTRY_UUID value in the output of "blkid --probe" is the same.
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07:55<yakubin>but that probably doesn't matter.
07:55<haxar>maybe you need to re-read the partition table with `hdparm -z /dev/sdb`
07:56<stotpo>yakubin: OK from what I understood this is done on a newly created partition for the purpose of this test only, But did you reboot or without rebooting ?
07:56<yakubin>without rebooting.
07:57<yakubin>but honestly i don't think it matters, since the value of "UUID" changed.
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07:59<stotpo>yakubin: I'm used to the idea of doubting everything even if it sounded as stupid as ignoring that it's unique I know sounds out of place and illogical but I doubt everything
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08:03<stotpo>yakubin: I was trying to find out what might be keeping a lock on the older UUID in whatever visible output we check using my own humble phrasing here
08:03<stotpo>yakubin: So I'd be interested in checking if it follows a different behavior when the xfs module/FS driver and the kernel were reset somehow
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08:08<stotpo>yakubin: I might have some misconception or misunderstanding of how some parts of the whole process work but I don't mind learning about this as I go crazy testing different scenarios
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08:20<stotpo>yakubin: So for now the solution works of course and I can click the name of the external HDD and have it mount in Gnome Files
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08:21<stotpo>But dmesg -T output is telling me: [Tue Jun 15 14:19:41 2021] XFS (sdd1): Unmounting Filesystem
08:21<stotpo>I have the feeling something will break if I simply unplug it from USB now
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08:22<stotpo>And that it might be detected with a different name when I re-plug it
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08:22<stotpo>And I'd see the message duplicate UUID again
08:23<stotpo>umount /dev/sdd1 is telling me: "umount: /dev/sdd1: not mounted."
08:24<stotpo>So I guess it's now safe to try and just pull the plug
08:24<stotpo>woops forgot to try the eject command which gave me an error before that it was unable to eject the disk
08:25<ratrace>"eject command"?
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08:25<stotpo>Nope no problems I re-plug it and automounter actually mounted it automatically this time
08:26<stotpo>ratrace: dpkg -S `which eject` eject: /usr/bin/eject
08:27<ratrace>that..... doesn't do what you think it does on HDDs :)
08:27<ratrace>if you want to be thorough, then use sync(1)
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08:28<stotpo>ratrace: sorry the output text was wrapped
08:29<stotpo>ratrace: it used to do, I mean it completely remove the reference to the disk not sure if something had changed
08:30<ratrace>I don't think that ever did anything to (USB) HDDs.
08:33<stotpo>ratrace: I know it might sound counter intuitive but I tried that as early as 2007 or 2008 so not sure why it didn't have the same effect now
08:33<yakubin>i think they mean the "eject" in gui, which ensures that there aren't running processes using it i think.
08:34<stotpo>ratrace: I guess I'm better off trying something like udisks --umount /dev/sdd1
08:34<stotpo>then udisks --detach /dev/sdd for the same effect
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08:35<stotpo>or may be it's udisksctl
08:35<ratrace>yakubin: probably. that little icon in the now long gone gnome sys tray
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08:36<stotpo>yakubin: I meant the effect that you'd have of right clicking the volume then selecting "Safely Remove Drive"
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08:38<stotpo>At least as I see now available in Files version 3.38.2-stable but this is on the Debian testing box so probably different version for you
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08:38<ratrace>you can also echo 1 to /sys/block/<disk>/device/delete . that gracefully removes it from the PCI bus. not sure if that works for USBs also
08:38<ratrace>I've used that to uh..... "eject"..... hot swappable drives :)
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08:41<ottavio>Are there alternatives to Calibre for converting a .mobi file to .pdf. I tried using Calibre and I gave up after 4 days (yes) at 100% CPU.
08:43<stotpo>ratrace: The time I'm really interested in using a command that would echo 1 to a /sys/block is when I'd like to re-detect a drive do you think this would work for USB external too after doing a "udisksctl power-off --block-device /dev/sdd" and if yes what should the command look like ?
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08:44<stotpo>ottavio: sorry I'm not aware of something off the top of my head
08:44<ratrace>stotpo: not sure if it'd work over USB, but to re-detect hardware you typically udevadm trigger or partprobe
08:45<ottavio>OMG are there Libera spammers in here as well?
08:45<bremner>they are everywhere and have nothing to do with libera
08:45<ratrace>ottavio: no idea what you're talking about. move along, nothing to see here .)
08:45<bremner>that.
08:46<stotpo>ratrace: yes I'd try udevadm trigger I didn't have much luck with it in the past for whatever reason but it's probably cause I keep trying weird things on my boxes :))
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08:47<ottavio>ratrace: why so arsey?
08:47<bremner>ottavio: we've been living with it a long time, so further discussion at this point is unhelpful
08:47<ottavio>Yes but I am not here 24/7.
08:48<ratrace>ottavio: because you're not the first one to comment on spam; and commenting on spam is EXACTLY what they want; and yeah, has nothing to do with libera, so I suppose you're just playing into their hands
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08:48<bremner>ottavio: sure, just explaining the reaction(s)
08:48<ratrace>and I thought that one eyed smiley made it funny, not arsey. but hey....
08:48<ottavio>ratrace: you're being paranoid and arsey to say the least
08:48<ratrace>I don't give a rats arse tho. I need the arses for the race.
08:48<bremner>ottavio: ok, please tone it down. People are actually being civil here, except you
08:49<ottavio>bremmer just for asking a legit question?
08:50<stotpo>Wow didn't expect trolling to still be a thing on irc :p
08:51<ottavio>stotpo: you haven't been on irc for long enough then
08:52<stotpo>ratrace: anyhow, I honestly don't know about USB I'm looking under the /sys hierarchy
08:52<ratrace>I think that was sarcasm :)
08:53<stotpo>Ooh OK guys whatever I'm from that generation when there were no thing such as emotions or icons or smiley faces on IRC so ...I couldn't tell for sure :))
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08:54<ratrace>pretty sure simple ascii smiley faces predate irc
08:54<stotpo>ratrace: yes just exagerated for a moment there :)
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08:55<ratrace>;)
08:56<ratrace>but not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon ... which is all better suited for #debian-offtopic anyway ;)
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08:58<stotpo>ratrace: Yup, so I better check back on that echo command you've posted before I forget to type it down and lose it forever If I forgot one day in the near future about the wonderful thing "googling" due to getting old, more lazy and grumpy :))
08:58<ottavio>stotpo: but can calibre at least read .mobi? I tried and it hangs. Whatever I do with Calibre it just kills my laptop.
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08:59<ottavio>I have 4GB ram.Not much but it should be able to open Calibre without freezing.
09:01<stotpo>ottavio: most of the time I forget that I'm on a GUI setup due to how long I have the terminal open in front of me ;) wish I could help though cause I'm using somewhat similar hardware to what you have and I always try to look for the fastest and lightest way of doing almost everything even if it's playing media from the terminal
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09:02<stotpo>ottavio: If it wasn't for the kids I wouldn't be trying to learn what can be done using the GUI to be honest, sorry
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09:08<ottavio>stotpo: I launch ebook-viewer from the terminal but it freezes after "Preparing book for first time reading"
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09:15<stotpo>ottavio: I'm not sure but out of curiousity how did you attempt the conversion using Calibre ? at the command line ?
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09:29<ottavio>stotpo: "nice -n 19 ~/opt/calibre/ebook-convert Harrap_s_Shorter_Dictionnaire_Anglais-Francais_Francais-Anglais_French_and_English_Edition_PDFDrive_.mobi Harrap_s_Shorter_Dictionnaire_Anglais-Francais_Francais-Anglais_French_and_English_Edition_PDFDrive_.epub --output-profile=ipad -vvv
09:29<ottavio>"
09:30<ottavio>And I let it run for 4 days. It was still stuck ay 13%
09:34<stotpo>ratrace: by the way I just tried udevadm trigger didn't work unfortunately looks like powering off the external hdd will require something different to power it back on
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09:36<stotpo>ottavio: with all those v letters did you get any useful verbose output that would help in understanding what's going on ?
09:36<ratrace>stotpo: oh if it powered down, maybe you can use hdparm to wake it up ... but if it disappeared from the bus..... yeah, no go, you'll have to re-plug it in
09:37<ottavio>stotpo: not much
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09:37<stotpo>ratrace: I'd rather refrain from using hdparm but I just got it installed and I was about to try
09:37<stotpo>ratrace: Thanks :)
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10:02<stotpo>ratrace: by the way here's an example of what I was telling you about: https://paste.debian.net/1201324/
10:02<stotpo>related to eject
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10:06<ratrace>stotpo: yes but it doens't do what you think it does: https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux/blob/master/sys-utils/eject.c#L1015
10:07<ratrace>the _expected_ thing here for "safely remove" would be to sync, park and poweroff. none of that happens.
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10:21<jhutchins>ratrace: I think the sync happens.
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10:22<jhutchins>iirc eject was originally for tapes, later useful for CD/DVDs, and is a good way to handle removable devices.
10:24<ratrace>jhutchins: not unless I'm looking at the wrong source code.
10:24<ratrace>jhutchins: but there's no codepath. floppy, tape, cdrom and scsi are the only things tried
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10:26<ratrace>I know the generic SCSI api in the kernel covers USB mass storage as well, but is tehre a handler of SG_IO for them?
10:28<grawity>the SCSI spindown command `sg_start --readonly --stop` has worked with all USB (UAS and BOT) disks that I've used so far
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10:30<ratrace>just tried with some external usb drive I have here (SATA spinner connected via USB->SATA interface), and nothing happens, as excpected. nothing in dmesh, no change in the drive, and I can mount/umount normally after eject. dunno, maybe some drives react differently?
10:30<jofial>Hi everyone
10:31<ratrace>anyhoo, instead of eject, I always run sync and unplug
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10:39<jhutchins>I've used hdparm to tell my USB HD to power down when idle, so all I do is unmount it.
10:39<jhutchins>umount will sync.
10:40<ratrace>ah yes. and eject calls umount.
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10:44<jhutchins>,v calibre
10:44<judd>Package: calibre on amd64 -- jessie: 2.5.0+dfsg-1; stretch: 2.75.1+dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 3.39.1+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 3.39.1+dfsg-3; buster-backports: 3.48.0+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.12.0+dfsg-1; sid: 5.16.1+dfsg-1; experimental: 5.21.0+dfsg-1
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10:51<jhutchins>Hm. The python install page says that the current version will run on python >= w,6, but the installer from calibre requires python 3, as does V5 from Debian.
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10:51<yakubin>what are all those "irc.libera.chat" messages for? according to debian.org, this channel is still on OFTC, no?
10:52<Anarka>yeah... its definitly not moving to #hamradio :) just regular spam
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10:53<H4ndy>that hamradio spam goes on for week already on all networks, it's annoying
10:53<stotpo>ratrace: Yes I do unmount manually first just to ensure it's not in use anymore then unplug/safely remove or power it down gracefully
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10:54<stotpo>ratrace: however the question that was asked a number of times and did Not find many answering is how to power it back up without unplugging
10:54<jhutchins>yakubin: About half the freenode debian channel moved to libera. Some moved here.
10:55<stotpo>then replugging the external HDD to USB for example so I thought I'd have another look back at this again now
10:56<jhutchins>yakubin: There is some sort of animosity between the freenode/libera staff and the oftc staff.
10:59<imMute>jhutchins: I thought a bunch of people were on both OFTC staff and libera (formerly freenode) staff.
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10:59<jhutchins>imMute: Could be.
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11:00<jhutchins>imMute: Network Staff are not people I deal with regularly, so I really don't know why it was worth starting a whole new network.
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11:07<somiaj>From my point of view, I didn't really see the oftc network/staff involved in this, it was more freenode splitting apart and oftc on the sidelines.
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11:21<debiantonio_>Can I publish a link here?
11:22<krikom>debiantonio_, I'm pretty sure you can. The real question is: should you?
11:22<somiaj>debiantonio_: what is the link for?
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11:22<somiaj>debiantonio_: If it is realted to debian support or a question you have sure, if it is just sharing stuff you find intersting/newworthly/etc no
11:22<debiantonio_>about freenode case
11:22<somiaj>not really on topic here
11:23<krikom>#debian-offtopic, could it be?
11:23-!-TCZ [~tcz@91.150.178.241] has quit []
11:23<somiaj>though maybe users of #debian-offtopic would be intersted, there are more appropriate channels
11:23<debiantonio_>ok, thx
11:24<debiantonio_>cannot join :/
11:24<somiaj>are they requring you regiser? (some channels are due to spambots)
11:25<bremner>yep
11:25<bremner>(yes #debian-offtopic requires registration)
11:26<bremner>debiantonio_: if you just want to talk about freenode, ##freenode on irc.libera.chat exists for that
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11:28<debiantonio_>no no is clarified old news, :)
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11:29<debiantonio_>ok ! thx
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12:31<Sqrt{not}>dselect, famous last words
12:31<dselect><l3> macs never have problems
12:32<RoyK>hehe
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12:33<netmonk>hello
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12:36<Sqrt{not}>hi netmond
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12:52<RoyK>dselect: famous last words
12:52<dselect>< stumbles> nvz: in that case I seem to have a whole lot of packages that i have accidentally upgraded to unstable - is there a 1 liner i can use to downgrade them all to testing? < Eulex> stumbles, no < nvz> stumbles: haha < nvz> stumbles: thats cute < stumbles> heh off i go then clickety click
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13:55<omegatron>https://sources.debian.org/patches/espeak/1.48.04+dfsg-7+deb10u1/utf-8-init/ the seond half of this patch is borked ... is it possible to submit a patch of a patch ?
13:58<sarnold>it feels like fixing the indents would have made the whole thing more legible
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14:01<omegatron>I mean, I made my own patch of the two files, such that the speak_lib.cpp file looks like the speak.cpp in this regard, but ... the patch on debian.org should be fixed too some day.. because right now, the seond half does not change anything for good
14:01<bremner>omegatron: file a bug with the new patch?
14:02<omegatron>I guess I would have to register first somewhere at debian.org ?
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14:03<bremner>omegatron: no, just use reportbug from your debian system
14:03<omegatron>I don't use debian ..
14:03<omegatron>or any other distro ..
14:03<bremner>you can also use email to submit a bug report
14:04<omegatron>well, that is more likely to happen ..
14:04*enyc meows
14:04<enyc>bremner: had a lot of fun setting reportbug up right
14:04<bremner>https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
14:04<enyc>interesting it still does email submissions
14:04<omegatron>ah, thanks-a-lot !
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14:09<imMute>omegatron: wait, if you don't use debian why are you fixing debian patches?
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14:11<bremner>sssh, don't complain :P
14:11<omegatron>why not?
14:11<bremner>I think there might not be a real upstream for espeak
14:12<imMute>bremner: not complaining, just asking because it's odd :)
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14:13<omegatron>i'm the maintainer of our in-house distro and ... with a package count of >= 16k, you don't want to know, what kind of *** I have found and fixed and partly also reported in the past 30 years
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14:19<Isaac_Silbert>Hello, I'm trying to do a Debian install but for some reason I can't connect to a network. I skipped trying to sort it out and now that I'm configuring the package manager, skipping this has coime back to bite mew as I think the package manager needs an internet connection. Any way I can configure the package manager without internet? Thanks
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14:19<sney>!firmware installer
14:19<dpkg>Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>.
14:19<sney>er,
14:19<sney>!firmware images
14:19<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
14:20<sney>Isaac_Silbert: the most common reason for missing network during install is missing driver support, caused by nics that need non-free firmware. use this installer ^ and it'll probably just work.
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14:22<Isaac_Silbert>thanks
14:24<sney>np
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14:24<ghani>hello
14:24<sney>hi
14:25<ghani>can u help me
14:25<sney>!ask
14:25<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
14:25<ghani>i have being trying to install ubunutu
14:25<sney>this is #debian, we don't support ubuntu
14:25<ghani>i have a problem with installing ubunutu
14:26<ghani>oh sorry
14:26<Sqrt{not}>we can help you install _debian_
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14:26<ghani>i have debian
14:26<ghani>i want to change it
14:26<towo`>then ask in #ubuntu
14:26<enyc>ghani: ooi why? whih debian you have already?
14:26<ghani>for my ok
14:27<sney>!ubuntuirc
14:27<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server irc.libera.chat and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using HexChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://irc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
14:27<Sqrt{not}>!ubuntu
14:27<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on irc.libera.chat instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
14:27<enyc>ghani: at the moment debian 11 bullseye (testing) is actually (for me) quite usable, and even newer than ubuntu lts
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14:28<Kad_ksb>Hey. I'm having trouble with a Fujitsu Primergy server hanging on me. Trying to debug the issue, a friend suggested I run a mem test. Sadly, memtest86/memtest86+ don't seem to work at all -- from what I can find with Google, they don't support UEFI nor DDR4. What else can I try? Debian 10.
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14:29<grawity>one of those did support UEFI (I think memtest86+?), less sure about whether it depends on DDR type
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14:29<enyc>Kad_ksb: not part of debian, but... memtest86.com has non-FOSS image you can use debian to write *carefully* to usb stick which then works on uefi booting and newer ram
14:29<enyc>grawity: yes the non-free (but free of charge i.e. gratis) memtest86.com image does that these days
14:30<Kad_ksb>Okay, I'll look into that. Thanks.
14:30<enyc>I wonder what bootable hardware test things exist these days
14:30<enyc>its' an area I don't see obvious solutions to
14:30<enyc>memtest is useful part of it
14:30<enyc>peolpe have gpu test soetimes, windows based tests other times, ....
14:31<enyc>but to stress all that I/O and capacitors on vrms and all of that ... with odd data loads all over the place, seems harder to do...
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14:31<sney>a classic way to stress test hardware under linux is to compile a kernel
14:32<enyc>I wonder if debian has something like linux mint "usb image writer" to save users from easy dd mistakes writing images to sticks.......??
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14:33<sney>the debian install manual recommends using cp (as in, cp file.iso /dev/sdX) but a gui option would probably be a good idea. I'm not sure if there is one in the archive.
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14:34<enyc>sney: could probably take their FOSS tool and provide it in debian i suspect
14:35<sney>yeah
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14:37<enyc>hrrm simple python tool now called "mintstick"
14:37<Kad_ksb>Other than memtest86 on USB, any ideas for hunting down this lockup issue? Last time it did it, I got three errors in the format of "NMI watchdog: Watchdog detected hard LOCKUP on cpu X" where X was respectively 2, 10 and 4.
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14:39<zeha>look at the servers management controller thing? swap out all ram?
14:39<enyc>Kad_ksb: check obvious things -- temperatures and fan/dust clogged cpu
14:39<enyc>are all heatsinks clean and fans running smoothly?
14:40<enyc>not uncommon on older machines to need to re-do thermal-grease on chips
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14:40<enyc>or for capacitors or power supply to be failing
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14:41<enyc>lol I recall a PC that was absolutely *caked* in tarry dust from a Pub...
14:41<enyc>said PC was decreed to have died of some soort of lung cancer, no amount of cleaning ever revived it ;p
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14:48<Kad_ksb>All fans clean, all heatsinks clean, no weird temperatures reported.
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14:49<Kad_ksb>This thing is something like a year old or so.
14:49<enyc>Kad_ksb: memtest86.com running?
14:49<enyc>Kad_ksb: did it *previously* work fine with debian?
14:49<Kad_ksb>Yeah, finally got memtest86 running. Very confusing, since for the first forever there's just a blank screen.
14:49<Kad_ksb>And no, this has been something of an issue from the beginning.
14:50<Kad_ksb>I'm half-expecting it to be a compatibility/support problem, tbh.
14:50<enyc>Kad_ksb: can you not ask server vendor for help then?
14:50<Kad_ksb>No, this was an under-the-table deal I wasn't privvy to.
14:50<enyc>Kad_ksb: hrrm given other experience with modern hardware, newer kernel may be very very helpful
14:51<enyc>Kad_ksb: installed debian can have "buster-backports" repository added in /etc/apt/sources.list and then apt-get update apt-get -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64
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14:51<enyc>this will get some sort of 5.10 kernel instead of buster 4.19 kernel
14:51<enyc>this helps many people
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14:51<enyc>in the ubuntu 20.04 LTS / mint 20 land, even having kernel 5.8 instead of 5.4LTS series helps a lot on many newer pcs
14:51<Kad_ksb>I'm noting this down.
14:52<enyc>Kad_ksb: not sure how reproducible your issue is... e.g. running from boot usb
14:52<Isaac_Silbert>I downloaded the installer with the firmware but now it can't mount the usb drive (It tries to mount a CD ROM which isn't present in the laptop I'm using to install this). In the official version it detected and mounted the USB just fine.
14:53<Kad_ksb>Notably, this server machine has manufacturer-provided images for SuSE and RHEL, and instructions/soft/fw for those two. Nothing for Debian, but I hoped it would just work (maybe w/o some advanced features).
14:53<enyc>Kad_ksb: debian-derivative MX 19.4 has an **AHS** iso image with newer boot kernel ou can boot from just to play booting debian-10-derivative with new kernel but note this is not actual debian but uses almost all debian pakages)
14:53<sarnold>Kad_ksb: do you have rasdaemon installed? I haven't had as good luck with it as with mcelog :( but rasdaemon is supposed to be mcelog's replacement..
14:53<enyc>Kad_ksb: ALSO note that debian 11 bullseye won't be that far away and will have 5.10 kernel and so on anyhow
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14:53<sney>Isaac_Silbert: make sure you wrote the usb drive correctly, "cannot find cdrom" errors are commonly caused by improper writes. if you're coming from windows, use win32 disk imager rather than any etcher/rufus tools that are known to cause issues
14:54<Kad_ksb>sarnold: sadly, I don't know either; I'm comfortable with using Debian, but I'm not advanced at all, I don't think.
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14:55<enyc>OOOOOOOo
14:55<enyc>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/bullseye_di_rc2-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/
14:56<enyc>Kad_ksb: ^^^ test booting one of the new not-yet-released bullseye might not be a bad plan just to compare with
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14:57<Isaac_Silbert>ah, ok. I've been using rufus
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14:58<sney>rufus can *sometimes* be ok in dd mode if you have the right version of it, etc, but it's safer to just use the right tool
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15:01<Konomi>as long as you don't care what is on the destination drive you can actually just cp the img files directly to the actual device
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15:02<Zr40>which is basically the same as dd
15:02<Isaac_Silbert>Are there disk images with the firmware included? win32 disk imager only looks for .img instead of .iso files
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15:04<Kad_ksb>enyc: okay, I managed to ask the guy who solid it to us anyway, and apparently I was misinformed about the machine by my boss. It's been passed on from someone else, and it's not a year old. >_< It's in fact more something like 7 years old. Good to know. Also, they can't support me with anything other than Windows Server on it.
15:04<Kad_ksb>sold*
15:05<Kad_ksb>I wonder what else I wasn't told.
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15:05<jmcnaught>Isaac_Silbert: just set the open files dialog to show all files.
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15:12<enyc>Kad_ksb: hehe
15:13<enyc>Kad_ksb: nonetheless try debian bullseye 11 live image on it
15:13<enyc>let memtest complete first
15:13<enyc>Kad_ksb: sometimes can be a good move to update the system/uefi firmware
15:14<enyc>Kad_ksb: it *could* be a worn-out (capacitors, etc) machine or need new PSU or stuff like that
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15:21<Sqrt{not}>Kad_ksb, are you running just debian on the bare-metal machine, or are there any layers of VMs involved?
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15:37<Kad_ksb>Sqrt{not}: Debian straight on the metal
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15:38<Kad_ksb>Okay, I need to leave for now. memtest is running, so I'll let it complete. Then I'll see about upgrading the kernel and seeing if that helps anything.
15:39<Kad_ksb>If any other idea comes to mind, feel free to mention me and I'll see the message later.
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15:41<jhutchins>Interesting, #debian on freenode is now unavailable.
15:42<orbatos>The admins have taken ove a huge number of channels in an effort to stave off the exodus
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15:43<jhutchins>orbatos: How does making a channel unavailable stave off the exodus?
15:43<Dresden>jhutchins: "stave off the exodus" could be the staff reasons
15:43<Dresden>They seldom make sense
15:43<jhutchins>Last I look it had over 500 users.
15:43<orbatos>I'm not saying they know what they're doing
15:43<orbatos>it's a mess though
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15:44<orbatos>there's an official notice blaming cancel culture for administrative takover of 700 channels
15:44<orbatos>I wouldn't call that a normal thing to do
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15:54<jmcnaught>When I log into GNOME on bullseye it executes my ~/.profile (https://termbin.com/vgt4) which has "echo $BASH_VERSION > ~/testprofile
15:55<jmcnaught>heh wasn't done, but it does not execute my ~/.bashrc. I verify by checking for the presence of ~/testprofile in Nautilus before opening a terminal emulator
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15:56<jmcnaught>~/testprofile will contain "5.1.4(1)-release", so why does the "if [ -n "$BASH_VERSION" ];" earlier in the file not result in ~/.bashrc being sourced?
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16:24<apteryx>is there a way to instruct dpkg to not try to clean an existing file but instead reuse it when installing a package?
16:25<sarnold>what exactly are you trying to do?
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16:27<imMute>jmcnaught: is $HOME what you expect it to be when .profile sources $HOME/.bashrc ?
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16:33<jmcnaught>imMute: yes, I just tested this by putting "echo $HOME > ~/testprofilehome" in ~/.profile and used nautilus/gedit to confirm it contains my correct ~
16:33<jmcnaught>It's not really a problem I am just curious how/why it works like this.
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16:34<imMute>jmcnaught: seems like there's a bug somewhere. I would expect it to source .bashrc
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16:50<xcc6>hi. i have a rar file that i can't open in debian stable. when i run "file" on it, it says: RAR archive data, v4, os: Win32
16:51<xcc6>it opens in windows so i know it's not corrupt
16:52<sarnold>try tools from both unrar-free and libarchive-tools packages
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16:54<xcc6>ok thank you
16:54<xcc6>i didn't have unrar-free installed
16:54<xcc6>just a program called "ark" which seems to use 7zip
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16:57<sarnold>aha I knew there was a gui tool that would use the libarchive packages but I couldn't remmeber the name
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17:33<bahamat>With systemd unti files, the Before= and After=, if there are multiple dependencies should there be multiple lines, or multiple items on the same line?
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17:33<imMute>bahamat: I always put them on separate lines, but I think putting them on the same line separated by spaces works too
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17:34<bahamat>Ok, so either *should* be fine
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18:53<edcragg>/!\ THⅠЅ ⅭНΑΝNᎬᏞ HAЅ МΟVЕD ᎢO ⅠRC․LΙBEᎡᎪ.ⲤΗАT #HAМRᎪDIO /﹗\
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19:03<PrOcToLoGiSt>has this channel moved or that just spam?
19:03<olasd>it's just spam
19:04<olasd>(see also the fact that they were killed, in their quit message)
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19:21-!-hbautista_ is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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19:23-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
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19:35-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
19:38-!-satanist is now known as satanist|test
19:39-!-satanist|test is now known as satanist
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19:39-!-Pollion is "bombar" on #oftc #debian-next #debianfr #debian
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19:43-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
19:46-!-ax5623 [~NickServ@2600:6c50:737f:9f2a:99ec:c805:5c49:709c] has joined #debian
19:46-!-ax5623 is "truth" on #linux #debian-next #debian
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19:46-!-Despatche is "Wealth and glory to the winner" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #linux
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19:46-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
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19:49-!-R2robot is "R2" on #tor #debian
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20:01-!-krabador is "realname" on #postmarketos #ck #debian
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20:03-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
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20:08-!-jipege1 is "jipege" on #debian
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20:12-!-_Matth_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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20:14-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
20:15-!-mtlben [~quassel@modemcable132.204-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
20:15-!-mtlben is "mtl ben" on #fdroid #debian #replicant
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20:17-!-kurahaupo6 is "kurahaupo" on #virt #oftc #tor #debian #cryptoparty #virtualization #openstreetmap
20:17<kurahaupo6>/!\ THΙᏚ ϹHANNEⅬ ᎻΑᏚ MⲞVΕᗪ TΟ ІᎡC.ᏞIΒΕᏒΑ.ϹHΑT #ΗAϺRАᗪIⲞ /ⵑ﹨
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20:20-!-argentwolf [~argentwol@cpe-24-163-39-192.nc.res.rr.com] has quit []
20:20<jelly>PrOcToLoGiSt, incidentally, there is a #debian on irc.libera.chat, but this one is official and also the larger of the two
20:20-!-jfoy [~jfoy@c-67-168-110-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:20-!-jfoy is "jfoy" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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20:23-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
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20:27-!-__zxq9__ is "zxq9" on #devuan #ubuntu #kubuntu #debian #zomp #erlang #space
20:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 985] by debhelper
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20:28-!-krabador is "realname" on #postmarketos #ck #debian
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20:31-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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20:34-!-penguin_brian is "org.matrix:penguin_brian" on #debian
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20:40-!-qzd is "Qzd" on #linode #debian
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20:44-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
20:45-!-phebus [~phebus@c-73-113-180-252.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:45-!-phebus is "Jonathan Phebus" on #debian
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20:46-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
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20:46-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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20:51-!-peebowo is "peebowo" on #debian
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20:55-!-pragmaticenigma is "realname" on #debian
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21:00-!-uos_eric2023 is "Quassel IRC 用户" on #debian
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21:00-!-terr is "Terrell" on #debian @#android
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21:02-!-nightowlengineer is "nightowlengineer" on #virt #oftc #tor #debian
21:02<nightowlengineer>/!\ TНІЅ ⅭHᎪNΝEL ᎻАS ᎷOᏙEⅮ ΤⲞ IRC.LⅠBEᖇA․ⅭHᎪΤ #НΑMᏒAᎠΙO /!⧹
21:02-!-nightowlengineer [~nightowle@177.126.229.244] has quit [autokilled: spambot. Dont mail support@oftc.net with questions (2021-06-16 01:02:40)]
21:05-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has joined #debian
21:05-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
21:05-!-peebowo [~peebowo@2601:c3:101:3de0:8492:f936:a2c9:361] has quit [Quit: Quit]
21:06-!-apauli [~apauli@dynamic-095-112-171-221.95.112.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07<bremner>It's kindof like a network heartbeat, but with spam
21:07<sarnold>haha
21:08-!-__zxq9__ is now known as _zxq9_
21:10-!-_Matth_ [~Matth@s203.ALPHA-e18.vectant.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10<sney>lol
21:11-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:12-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:12-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
21:15-!-j_f-f [~quassel@mail2.snct-dialer.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:15-!-GeoffPotvin[m] is "org.matrix:gpotvin" on #debian
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21:16-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
21:16-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:16-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
21:16-!-mruffell [~mruffell@5.129.189.8] has joined #debian
21:16-!-mruffell is "mruffell" on #ceph #virt #tor #debian #aarch64-laptops #linukso #debian-nginx
21:16<mruffell>/!⧵ THIᏚ CHΑNNΕL ᕼAЅ МOVEᗪ TO IᖇϹ․LΙΒᎬRA.ⅭHAT #HAMRАᎠIΟ /!\
21:16-!-mruffell [~mruffell@5.129.189.8] has quit [autokilled: spambot. Dont mail support@oftc.net with questions (2021-06-16 01:16:48)]
21:17-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: real life interrupt]
21:18-!-GeoffPotvin[m] is now known as ratboy
21:18-!-j_f-f [~quassel@mail2.snct-dialer.de] has joined #debian
21:18-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debian-ubuntu #debian #debconf-miniauditorio #debian-xfce #debconf18-taiwan
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21:19-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:761b:dd83:9b43:bc40] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:19-!-ratboy [~gpotvinma@2001:470:1af1:101::8891] has left #debian []
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21:19-!-mjsir911 [~bnc@2001:19f0:5:4de7:7c8a:1967:d29b:d86d] has joined #debian
21:19-!-mjsir911 is "Marco Sirabella" on @#novawebdev #debian
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21:21-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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21:22-!-tm is "tm" on #debian #ceph
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21:24-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:761b:dd83:9b43:bc40] has joined #debian
21:24-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-ai #debian-next
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21:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 979] by debhelper
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21:29-!-olivia-mae is "Olivia Mae" on #debian #freedombox
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21:37-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
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21:38-!-zhaofeng [~quassel@144.34.177.189.16clouds.com] has joined #debian
21:38-!-zhaofeng is "zhaofeng" on #debian
21:39-!-Galvas [~Galvas@222.100.35.186] has joined #debian
21:39<Galvas>/!\ TᎻIS CHANⲚᎬL HᎪᏚ ΜΟVED TⲞ ΙRϹ.ⅬIΒᎬRΑ.CHAT #ዘᎪϺRАᎠⅠО /﹗\
21:39-!-Galvas is "Galvas" on #virt #oftc #tor #debian
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21:39-!-sidmo_ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian
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21:40-!-terr is "Terrell" on #debian @#android
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21:41-!-Steve is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
21:42-!-Steve is now known as Guest2335
21:43-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:43-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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21:46-!-alanquayle[m] [~alanquayl@117.190.247.78] has joined #debian
21:46-!-alanquayle[m] is "alanquayle[m]" on #virt #oftc #tor #debian #intel-gfx #radeon
21:46<alanquayle[m]>⁄﹗\ ΤНⅠS CHΑΝNEᏞ ዘᎪS ϺОᏙEⅮ ΤⲞ ІᖇC․ᏞΙᏴEᎡΑ.СHAТ #HАΜᎡАDIO /!\
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21:48-!-free4fun [~free4fun@free4fun.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:48-!-free4fun is "free4fun" on #debian-devel-es #debian-mentors-es @#debian-uy #debian
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21:51-!-sevu is now known as Guest2337
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21:51-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
21:52<jelly>that spam would be really funny in #hamradio on libera
21:55-!-basvdlei [~basvdlei@0002be8f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:56-!-phebus [~phebus@00026109.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:56-!-phebus is "Jonathan Phebus" on #moocows #debian
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22:00-!-debiantonio is "Antonio Goulart" on #debian
22:03-!-ftobich [~fabio@seven.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:03-!-ftobich is "Fabio A. De Muzio Tobich" on #debian-cwb #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes #debian-br
22:04-!-tejr [~tejr@0002957f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:04-!-tejr is "Tom Ryder" on #perl #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian
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22:07-!-nuc_ [~nuc@i59F7FE5E.versanet.de] has joined #debian
22:07-!-nuc_ is "realname" on #debian
22:08-!-ftobich [~fabio@seven.user.oftc.net] has quit []
22:08-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@0002b86c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:08-!-DenisTerekhov-t [~DenisTere@175.182.175.140] has joined #debian
22:08<DenisTerekhov-t>/!⧹ TⲎΙЅ ᏟHAΝⲚEᏞ HΑS ϺΟVEᎠ TΟ ⅠRC.ⅬIBΕᎡA.ϹዘАT #HАMRADІО /!\
22:08-!-DenisTerekhov-t is "DenisTerekhov-t" on #ceph #virt #tor #debian
22:08-!-DenisTerekhov-t [~DenisTere@175.182.175.140] has quit [autokilled: Possible spambot. Mail support@oftc.net if you think this is in error. (2021-06-16 02:08:20)]
22:10-!-_0xdd [~m4rley@207.148.96.120] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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22:10-!-_0xdd is "_0xdd" on #debian
22:10<DeeEff>In the year 2077 nobody even knows the origin of the radio spam anymore, they just accept it as if it was always there
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22:19<fmneto>It's like the CMB: its a remainder of the origin of the Universe
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22:19<fmneto>I kind of feel a morbid curiosity to check out the channel on freenode.
22:19<sarnold>hahaha
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22:23<jelly>it's just a community channel, whose ops don't take crap and stepped on some toes years ago
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22:24<jelly>it's good for spam because HAM is obviously not spam right?
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22:25<sarnold>I thought fmneto was discussing the radio broadcast that lasts 3600 seconds
22:25<sarnold>by the guy who is now on freenode staff
22:25<fmneto>I was :P
22:26<sussudio>i wish everyone involved with the hostile freenode takeover a long life, lived in severe discomfort.
22:26<fmneto>But the spam reminded me of freenode, hence the comment about the channel over there
22:26<DeeEff>I mean, does it make much of a difference either way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
22:26<fmneto>I completely agree with sussudio
22:27<fmneto>DeeEff: well, not really. I mean, Debian-related channels moved out of there 15 years ago
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22:33<don>Hello
22:35<don>can you suggest what room for info on 10.3 keymap problem resolution
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22:38<don>am looking for assistance on how to replace the keymap file on my system. Strange thing is the numbers quit working and nothing I can find to help resolve the problem.
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22:39<don>I have tried all the key press sequencies I could find but none seem to affect the number pad. I have tried 4 different keypoards
22:39<sarnold>is the scroll lock key hit? I think I've seen that being set break numpads before
22:39<sarnold>(granted that was twenty years ago)
22:40<don>scroll has no effect
22:40<sarnold>dang
22:40<sarnold>I think the next troubleshooting step is to use xev to see what events are being sent on each key press
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22:48<don>I tried xev and only get NUM Lock 77 and keypad enter key and nothing else on key pad works. I can change the num light still.
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22:49<sarnold>okay that's pretty strange.. uhhh... is there a key on your keyboard that maybe sticks the keyboard into 'mouse mode' or something similar?
22:49<don>I cured the problem on a differnt comoputer by changing the keymap file to a new one but can not find that file on here. or a replacemnet for it
22:49<sarnold>heh :(
22:49<don>I dont think there is a key for mouse mode.
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22:50<sarnold>there's also a libinput-debug-events command, it shows events at a slightly different level in the input stack... I've never used this one before (I don't even have it installed..)
22:50<don>this one is a Dell wired board a 106 I think
22:51<don>i will try that one.
22:53<sarnold>ah, that's just the manpage name, "sudo libinput debug-events" worked here
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22:55<sarnold>sudo libinput debug-events --verbose --show-keycodes -- beter still, this includes the keycodes
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22:57<don>installing
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23:00<don>ok that command works. shows the key numbers are being recorded. so that works. mouse moves it goes nutz cool
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23:01<sarnold>okay, cool, so libinput shows that the numpad keys are pressed, xev shows nothing?
23:01<don>I think that those are the right numbers for all the keys pressed
23:01<don>correct
23:02<sarnold>what does setxkbmap -query output? does it look sane?
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23:05<don>root@One:/home/don# d
23:05<don>d: command not found
23:05<don>root@One:/home/don# setxkbmap -query output
23:05<don>rules: evdev
23:05<don>model: jp106
23:05-!-don was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
23:05<sarnold>heh
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23:09<don>why
23:10<sney>!paste
23:10<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
23:10<sarnold>don: five lines within one second trips the bot..
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23:10<sarnold>don: did you expect to have a japanese keyboard?
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23:10<don>sorry this is my first successful chat session
23:11<sarnold>cool :) welcome
23:11<sarnold>the anti-spam stuff is a bit of a nuisance :( but you'll get the hang of it..
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23:11<don> many failures in the past.
23:11<don>mostly never got any usefull responses
23:12<don>I guess I always ask hard questions.
23:12<sarnold>aye, that can happen. whether or not someone's around, whether or not your question is 'good' to answer vs not good, etc..
23:12<don>will try xev again
23:13<don>same bad result
23:14<sarnold>I've got to go for the night; my *guess* at this point is that the setxkbmap tool is the thing to work with -- if you're actually using a japanese keyboard, maybe then printing out he current map, fixing it, and reloading it is the thing to do
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23:14<sarnold>if you're not actually using a japanese keyboard, then setting the keyboard correctly, etc
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23:16<Lixitini>Hi
23:16<don>I think this one is a china one but I have used a couple of wireless ones trying to check out the problem and get the same result
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23:17<rsalveti>᜵!\ TΗIS CHANⲚEL ᎻАЅ MOVEᎠ ΤO IᎡⅭ.ⅬIⲂΕᎡA.CΗAᎢ #HAΜRAᎠIΟ /!∖
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23:18<Lixitini>Есть русские?
23:18<sney>!ru
23:18<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) - debian-russian@lists.debian.org
23:18<don>It is a made in China Dell keyboard
23:18<sney>(or english here)
23:21<don>Do you know how to locate the keymap file? Where could I get a new copy of the file?
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23:21<don>to replace it with
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23:24<xerov>⧸!\ ΤHIЅ ⅭНAⲚNEᒪ ⲎΑЅ MΟVEⅮ ТO IᎡⅭ.LⅠBΕRА.CHАT #HАΜᏒADΙO /!﹨
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23:34<Rickey>#libera
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 16 00:00:30 2021