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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-22

---Logopened Tue Jun 22 00:00:39 2021
00:01-!-ChromaCat248 [~ChromaCat@0002b9d5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:01-!-ChromaCat248 is "realname" on #virt #oftc #moocows #linux #debian #C #
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00:25-!-thurin is "thurin" on #tor #oftc #moocows #linode #debian
00:28-!-chuangzhu [~chuangzhu@0002c2e8.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:28-!-chuangzhu is "Chuang Zhu" on #debian
00:30-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:6520:a782:87e7:fcb0] has joined #debian
00:30-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #packaging #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-meeting
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00:32-!-NomadJim is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
00:32-!-jpw_ [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
00:32-!-jpw_ is "James Park-Watt" on #debian
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00:35-!-richard_h is "purple" on #debian
00:40-!-juan [~juan@186-79-226-86.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #debian
00:40-!-juan is "realname" on #debian
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00:45-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:45-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
00:45<richard_h>with an aptitude search, I can use ~d to search the description. Is there a way to search just the short version, or first line of the description?
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00:46-!-hbautista_ is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
00:46-!-cpaelzer [~paelzer@2001:67c:1560:8007::aac:c4ad] has joined #debian
00:46-!-cpaelzer is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #virt #debian-qemu #debian
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00:48-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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00:48-!-Zauberfisch is "Zauberfisch" on #virt #bitlbee #debian
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01:15-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee
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01:19-!-tizef is "realname" on #3hg #debian #nakedeb #debian-next
01:19-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:6520:a782:87e7:fcb0] has joined #debian
01:19-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #packaging #debian-ai #debian-next #debian-meeting
01:19-!-semeion is now known as mnemonic
01:22-!-Daniel is now known as toolz
01:23-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:23-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #kernelnewbies #radeon #vbox #vboxger
01:25-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:25-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian
01:25-!-pon97 [~AdminUser@mx.kramz.biz] has joined #debian
01:25-!-pon97 is "Pon97,,," on #debian
01:25<pon97>ебать
01:25<pon97>ирк еще юзают
01:25<pon97>;0
01:25<pon97>:)
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01:27-!-dub_a is "dub_a" on #debian
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01:28-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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01:30-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian #debian-next #debian-lan
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01:32-!-fernie is "Jarkko Torvinen" on #debian
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01:32-!-uos is "Unknown" on #debian
01:32<uos>uuuuu
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01:37-!-rclobus is "Roland Clobus" on #debian
01:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1002] by debhelper
01:43-!-chomwitt [~Pitsikoko@2a02:587:dc0b:ff00:c813:70d9:31b2:b1b9] has joined #debian
01:43-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-xfce #openstreetmap #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev
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01:44-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
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01:46-!-bayram is "realname" on #debian
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01:48-!-britho [~britho@071-081-142-203.res.spectrum.com] has joined #debian
01:48-!-britho is "Brian Thompson" on #debian-next #debian
01:49<britho>Is there a standard established for setting up the wrap margin in mutt for Debian Developers? Didn't find anything in the Developer Reference with a simple search. It seems like 80 is the standard (aside from the automated messages).
01:50-!-arunpyasi [~arunpyasi@43.231.208.210] has joined #debian
01:50-!-arunpyasi is "realname" on #debian-ubuntu #debian @#debian-deepin
01:50<britho>Specifically 4.1.1 in the DR doesn't state anything about email client preference but I have noticed that a text-based client is preferred by most.
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01:59-!-ibx2496 is "realname" on #debian #linuxmint
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02:01-!-WizardGed is "WizardGed" on #debian-next #debian
02:01-!-jas4711 [~smuxi@h-178-174-130-130.A498.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
02:01-!-jas4711 is "Simon Josefsson" on #debian #salsaci #dfri_se
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02:05-!-kini is "Keshav Kini -- http://github.com/kini" on #debian-next @#aptitude #debian #debian-pdx #debian-japanese #virt #llvm
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02:07-!-CockoX is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
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02:16-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #kernelnewbies #radeon #vbox #vboxger
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02:17-!-glouniche is "realname" on #oftc #tor #redditprivacy #debian
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02:37-!-stylesen__ is "stylesen" on #debian #debian-india
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02:45-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian
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02:52-!-mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian @#lichess #yuming
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02:53-!-maknho is "maknho" on #debian
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02:58-!-JCWasmx86 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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02:58-!-CockoX is "CRNX" on #debian-ro #debian
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03:00-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #hyprateam #debian-nonupload #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
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03:02-!-CockoX is "CRNX" on #debian-ro #debian
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03:02-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
03:03-!-bayram [~bayram@91.93.51.78] has quit [autokilled: This host is believed to be a home to spammers. - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2021-06-22 07:03:32)]
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03:04-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
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03:05-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
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03:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 1008] by debhelper
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03:09-!-kini is "Keshav Kini -- http://github.com/kini" on #debian-next @#aptitude #debian #debian-pdx #debian-japanese #virt #llvm
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03:10-!-Jad is "Jad " on #suckless #debian-social #debconf-fosdem #bash-completion #bash #debian-dpkg #debian-gnupg #debian-academy #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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03:29-!-nyov is "nyov" on #postmarketos #debian-offtopic #debian #luakit #oftc
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04:06<uos>ggg
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04:06-!-hendursa1 is "weechat" on #robigalia #debian #postmarketos #mitmproxy #kernelnewbies
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04:09-!-czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #linux #debian-next #debian
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04:10-!-kini is "Keshav Kini -- http://github.com/kini" on #debian-next @#aptitude #debian #debian-pdx #debian-japanese #virt #llvm
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05:23<rjsalts>What am I doing wrong, I've changed root from /dev/sda3 to /dev/hostname/root and updated in /etc/fstab, but update-grub is still finding /dev/sda3
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05:25<Tj>rjsalts: what is /dev/hostname/ ? an LVM VG ?
05:28<rjsalts>yeah, lvm vg
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05:29<rjsalts>I figured it out, it's just that the old root partition was still there and it was also getting added to grub.cfg
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05:33<rjsalts>I usually set the volume group to be the same as the hostname
05:34<Tas-sos>Hello Debian GNU/Linux community! o/
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05:35<Tas-sos>I think I have a well-known problem with terminator..
05:36<Tas-sos>when I try to broadcasting something in multiple windows, I will have double, triple characters in other windows...
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05:38<quadrat>rjsalts can you post your fstab?
05:38<Tas-sos>Today I decided to install the buster-backports version in order to resolve this problem..
05:38<Tas-sos>but, nothing.. :-( Again the same irritating problem/bug..
05:38<Tas-sos>===> https://pastebin.com/raw/mQJg5EjM
05:39<Tas-sos>Could you help me about that ? What can I do ?
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05:49<rjsalts>quadrat: it's all fine, it was just grub being helpful
05:49<quadrat>rjsalts great :)
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06:15<philluminati>If I'm on Debian stable and I needed to install an Ubuntu package, which would you recommend? disco, cosmic, artful, zesty, trusty or yakkety please?
06:15<quadrat>none
06:16<quadrat>what do you want to install?
06:16<quadrat>sounds like a abandoned package?
06:16<philluminati>nextcloud desktop client
06:17<quadrat>and why not just the desktop client within debian?
06:17<philluminati>the version I had stopped working when I upgraded by server. It looks like there's something in debian testing that I perhaps install
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06:18<philluminati>even though it could possible lead me into a franken install.
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06:19<quadrat>why not just use flatpak then
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06:20<philluminati>I think that adding something I don't understand might damage the integrity of it
06:20<quadrat>that's why use the flatpak version, as it's a system in itself, better than installing some package where you don't know what happens
06:21<philluminati>I don't understand how flatpak works, so I can't make a judgement about the risk of it
06:21<philluminati>it's a rival installation system
06:21<bremner>sorry, but you don't understand debian packages either, or you would not be trying to install ubuntu packages
06:21<quadrat>this
06:22<quadrat>and it's not rivaling apt
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06:23<philluminati>thanks for the help guys
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06:24<bremner>maybe consider upgrading to bullseye, it will be stable soon
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06:25<bremner>there is definitely a newer nextcloud there. Of course upgrading can be disruptive, but it's usually fixable stuff.
06:25<philluminati>I'm not prepared to leave stable before it's ready
06:25<bremner>there was a nextcloud backport for stretch; maybe if you ask someone will backport for buster
06:26<quadrat>probably not that late into the stable release
06:26<bremner>otherwise, !ssb
06:26<bremner>!ssb
06:26<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
06:26<quadrat>,checkbackport nextcloud-desktop
06:26<judd>Backporting package nextcloud-desktop in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13);Build-Depends-Indep: dh-sequence-sphinxdoc.
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06:29<philluminati>I might have a chat with nextcloud guys about server/client compatibility, or check their site, make sure I'm not overlooking something because ultimately I don't really want to mess with external packages at all
06:30<philluminati>as has been said - I don't understand any package management solution (aside from three commands)
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06:33<quadrat>sounds like you will have to learn a bit then
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06:35<bremner>philluminati: do you know that your problem is fixed with the newer package? What specifically is the bug? Is it reported to Debian?
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06:41<philluminati>The client just stopped working after I upgraded the server, hanging after going through the login screen. I'm not sure specifically what the bug is and probably didn't capture enough info before I uninstalled it
06:43<philluminati>I wouldn't expect an ubuntu package to work on debian but the nextcloud site says "You can find Ubuntu/Debian packages in this PPA" which links to a place with only ubuntu deb files
06:44<philluminati>so I thought better to ask here that even attempt to install something that I don't think will work
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06:45<philluminati>but I may have wrongly assumed that upgrading the package would solve the problem. It just seemed like the laziest thing to try first. Especially when most bug reports would expect you to file bugs against the latest version of packages rather than older ones
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06:46<quadrat>did you test the appimage? as it's another official supported way to get the desktop client
06:46<bremner>philluminati: ok. Well, in that case you should ask for advice / support from upstream about what version to try
06:46-!-simon2cyrene [~simon@home.cyrene.fr] has joined #debian
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06:46<philluminati>https://nextcloud.com/install/#install-clients
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06:47<bremner>and decide if you trust that advice, of course.
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06:50<philluminati>I haven't tried the appimage so it's something I might look into.
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06:52<quadrat>same system in the background as flatpak (sandbox) but without auto update
06:52<philluminati>thanks guys
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06:54<enyc>** Hrrm, not sure where to send somebody in freenode #debian who is interested to help debian with Turkish Translations
06:54<enyc>11:53 < devman2002> most common content are turkish but wiki or documentation are not
06:55<bremner>,tr
06:55<bremner>!tr
06:55<dpkg>i guess tr is türkçe yardIm için #debian.tr (irc.freenode.net) -- if you need help in turkish, please join #debian.tr on irc.freenode.net.
06:55<bremner>ah, I guess that channel is gone
06:55<quadrat>so maybe libera.chat?
06:55<bremner>nope
06:55<bremner>(just checked)
06:56<quadrat>not on libera so that's why no idea ;)
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06:57<sussudio>did you read that andrew lame bought irc.com
06:57<sussudio>he'll be all alone on there. forever alone.
06:58<enyc>bremner: hrrm that dpkg thing needs updating not to refer to freenode etc =)
06:58<bremner>sussudio: ##freenode on irc.libera.chat is the official home of such discussion
06:58<enyc>bug report abotu it??? can somebody just do it ?
06:58<bremner>enyc: anyone can fix the bot
06:59<quadrat>and what would you fix it to? sorry channel doesn't exist?
06:59<bremner>yeah, that's a problematic case
06:59<bremner>lemme escalate your call to a supervisor :P
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07:00<sussudio>the supervisor is probably in a turkish prison for looking at erdogan in a way he didn't like.
07:00<bremner>plenty of time to answer my questions then
07:01<sussudio>hm probably why the channel is gone.
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07:04<Brick>hi.., if i execute terminator, and execute "LAN=en_US.UTF-8 bash" , i get a different mapping of a key..., and it is different from executeing "export LANG=en_US.UTF-8" or "eval " why is that? and how do i verify ?
07:04<philluminati>hmmm.. I reinstalled the initial version and these are the logs: http://paste.debian.net/1201997/
07:04<Brick>"eval LANG=en_US.UTF-8"
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07:06<philluminati>looks like my server is asking for the password to be sent outside of https. Must not realise https is expected
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07:07<bremner>maybe you can just update some configuration to use a secure URL?
07:07<philluminati>csp might have saved me from sending my password in cleartext
07:07<devman2002>Hello
07:07<philluminati>seems like bad serverside configuration for sure
07:07<devman2002>I want to be translator
07:07<devman2002>But where can I start ?
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07:09<quadrat>devman2002 https://www.debian.org/international/Turkish
07:10<bremner>!localization
07:10<dpkg>it has been said that l10n is an abbreviation for localization, which is a long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "L, then 10 more letters, then N", get it? http://wiki.debian.org/L10n http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-$language
07:10<bremner>the wiki seems to have some hints
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07:14<devman2002>thanks!
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07:19<Sky_hawk>imMute: thanks, that got me on the right track! appearently if you change the [install] section you also have to run 'systemctl reenable <service>'
07:21<Brick>is there an archive for wiki.debian.org for example for earlier releases ?
07:22<bremner>there is a history on every page?
07:22<bremner>err. I thought so.
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07:23<bremner>there is at least "recent changes" for 90 days
07:24<bremner>ah, look under Page -> Info
07:24<bremner>for one page I checked that gave me 15 years of history
07:25<Brick>bremner, ii would like to download the wiki with wget... , for an older release..of Debian..
07:25<bremner>I don't think that is possible.
07:26<vv221>I guess the easier method would be to go through web.archive.org or a similar service.
07:26<vv221>Hoping most of the Debian wiki has been archived there around the time you want a snapshot for.
07:27<bremner>many pages will contain advice for previous versions anyway.
07:28<Brick>hmm, interesting..
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07:36<wyre>hi guys, in the debian installer are MB actually MiB?
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07:39<philluminati>fixed by nextcloud issue. turns out I switched from an fpm based to one that ships an apache front-end and two reverse proxies weren't playing nicely together. Just had to set two env vars and the issue has been resolved. All without having to install any out-of-repo nextcloud clients
07:39<philluminati>thanks guys
07:40<bremner>great!
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07:51<_Andrew>Anyone else started having problems with iwlwifi after upgrading their packages today in bullseye?
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07:52<enyc>_Andrew: I can test, was there a firmware- package updated? or something else ? look in your /var/log/apt/history.log ?
07:53<_Andrew>https://paste.debian.net/1202004/
07:53<_Andrew>Here is my dmesg.. https://paste.debian.net/1201992/
07:54<enyc>_Andrew: bluetooth stuff updated, I wonderc if you have bluuetooth and wireless in a single module
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07:55<enyc>oh, I now use an atheros having taken out iwlwifi adapter so sorry I can no longer test the same thing ;/
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07:56<_Andrew>might be a 5ghz only issue
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08:09<__Andrew>It's only 5GHz on the wifi
08:09<__Andrew>2.4 is fine
08:11<__Andrew>It's some kind of bug but I have no idea how to debug it
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08:26<__Andrew>I guess it must be this bug
08:26<__Andrew>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=987116
08:26-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #debian to: Current Debian release: buster 10.10 point release /msg dpkg 10.10; /msg dpkg buster; | bullseye 11.0 comes soon! /msg dpkg bullseye | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog | Community expectations: http://deb.li/conduct
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08:26<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/987116 in firmware-iwlwifi (open, upstream): «firmware-iwlwifi: AX20* bluetooth random disconnects»; severity: important; opened: 2021-04-17; last modified: 2021-06-17.
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08:30<Brick>i dont understand how to enable auto "bash comments" in default bash or terminator ... , is somebody able to help ?
08:32<Brick>on Shift+3 or alternate key press the current bash line should be comemnted out... and a new prompt should be shown...
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08:33<grove>I've installed flatpak on my Debian Buster, and installed slack (that the company requires us to use :-( ) from flathub. But when I try `flatpak run --command=bash com.slack.Slack` I can see that it will be able to see the contents of several folders in my homedir that I don't think it should (or needs), how do I change that? (as a workaround I could move files away from those directories, but ...
08:33<grove>... if I want to prevent new files from being put there I also need to change the configuration of a lot of other programs, that can't be the way forward
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08:34<Mister00X>grove: you could use flatseal to adjust permissions
08:34<grove>Brick: I use zsh, in that I can just press Esc-q, then I get a fresh command line, and the current one is put on a stack and appears after whatever command I executed has finished
08:34<Linux77>nice UGT cool friends, i am building a project with live build, already sucess on many tasks but i need to put customized .profile and .bashrc and .local/bin for live user, anyone known what i have to do grateful!???
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08:36<grove>Mister00X: But flatseal isn't packaged for debian, and the guide I found online talks about installing it as a flatpak, which just shifts the issue
08:36<Brick>well.., sorry i can barely handle bash..
08:36<Brick>grove,
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08:36<Brick>but nice feature.., good to know of..
08:37<grove>Brick: Sorry, but I have no idea now to do what you want in bash, just wanted to mention an alternative if you would consider switching
08:38<grove>(I probably switched to Debian before switching from bash to zsh, but it's still a long long time ago)
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08:39<Brick>grove, if you promise to be my teacher..., and never leave.., then i can follow you, and switch to zsh.., else.., i stick with what i got to learn.., to me its all to confusing... to much fuss..
08:39<Brick>to many variaants.., and i never get to learn anything..
08:40<Brick>just switching from A to B, and back to A.., and so on...
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08:40<@peb>Brick: zsh and bash behave sensibly identically on most basic usages
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08:40<Mister00X>grove: you can override flatpak permissions manually
08:40<@peb>zsh has some specific features, of course
08:40<grove>Mister00X: But how?
08:41<@peb>but I don't think there is any big risk
08:41-!-mode/#debian [-o peb] by peb
08:41<Brick>and in the end i get confused from oll the variants and theire specific features and syntaxes.., and i end up mixing them up...
08:41<Mister00X>grove: https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/flatpak-command-reference.html#flatpak-override https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/flatpak-command-reference.html#flatpak-permission-remove I guess
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08:44<Brick>to make the disaster complete..., and i have to look up everyting more than twice..
08:46<grove>I installed the flatpak with --user, but `flatpak permission-show` says "error: Unknown option --user" :-(
08:47<Brick>let me learn bash first.., which is standard on all disstros.., and later on.., if it happens i might still switch.. to zsh.. or whatever..., i dont even want to upgrade anymore.., i want to handle my system propberly.., , and later on i might decide for myself wether i want to upgrade or not...,
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09:03<grove>Okay, it seems manually editing .local/share/flatpak/app/com.slack.Slack//x86_64/stable/<id>/metadata worked
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09:34<imMute>Sky_hawk: ah, yeah that likely makes sense. I've not run into that issue before, but it makes sense given how [Install] and 'systemctl enable' work
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10:44<Tas-sos>I think I have a well-known problem with terminator..
10:44<Tas-sos>when I try to broadcasting something in multiple windows, I will have double, triple characters in other windows...
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10:44<Tas-sos>Today I decided to install the buster-backports version in order to resolve this problem..
10:44<Tas-sos>but, nothing.. :-( Again the same irritating problem/bug..
10:44<Tas-sos>===> https://pastebin.com/raw/mQJg5EjM
10:45<Tas-sos>Could you help me about that ? What can I do ?
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10:56<bremner>is it https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=692428 ?
10:56<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/692428 in terminator (open): «[terminator] sending keystrokes using groups gives lots of keystrokes and 100% CPU»; severity: important; opened: 2012-11-06; last modified: 2012-11-06.
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11:39<Tas-sos>yes.. something like that but I don't find problem with CPU
11:39<Tas-sos>just with keypress in multiple windows
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11:40<Tas-sos>I'm running on GNOME Shell 3.30.2
11:40<kirillclon>привет
11:41<Tas-sos>I think that in the latest version of terminator this bug was fixed, its true that ?
11:41<bremner>!ru
11:41<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) - debian-russian@lists.debian.org
11:42<Tas-sos>Are you have some another alternative software like terminator that works well in Debian with GNOME ?
11:42<bremner>Tas-sos: dunno. Do you have a pointer to an upstream announcement / release notes or?
11:42<bremner>Tas-sos: gnome terminal is the obvious answer
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11:47<Tas-sos>I think.. https://github.com/ibus/ibus/issues/1802
11:48<Tas-sos>==> https://github.com/gnome-terminator/terminator/releases
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11:51<Tas-sos>==> https://github.com/gnome-terminator/terminator/compare/v2.0.1...v2.1.1
11:51<Tas-sos>@mattrose
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11:51<Tas-sos>"remove workaround for ibus/ibus#1802"
11:52<bremner>OK, but 2.1.0 is the latest version in debian. So someone (TM) needs to update terminator
11:56<Tas-sos>bremner: in backports right ?
11:56<bremner>yes. 2.1.0 is in backports
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11:57<Tas-sos>ok! I will be happy if I could help with that! :-)
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11:58<Tas-sos>Could you show me how I can help or where I can turn for help?
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12:01<Tas-sos>(btw but "someone (TM)" what means ? ^_^ Sorry but I did't understand the `TM`)
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12:06<bremner>it's a joke. It basically means I think someone else should do the work, not me.
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12:07<bremner>you can help by explaining in that bug that it is fixed in new version of terminator
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12:07<bremner>just send mail to 692428@bugs.debian.org
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12:25<Sqrt{not}>hi gothenburg
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13:47<KillerCurtis>blah blah blah
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14:13<sychill>the /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian file suggests a wpa_supplicant roaming setup that has: "iface eth1 inet manual \n wpa-driver wext \n wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf"
14:13<sychill>i'm bothered by the use of "eth1"
14:13<sychill>eth0, eth1, etc usually mean /ethernet/, as in: wired network from a cable
14:14<imMute>sychill: most interface names are the new "predictable" names, not even ethX anymore.
14:14<imMute>you could certainly submit a bug report. a patch attached would more likely be accepted
14:15<sychill>i keep seeing eth0 appearing in the wpasupplicant docs, and its really confusing. I don't understand how anyone would be using ethX to name wireless NICs
14:17<sychill>i would like some reassurance that the docs are just poorly written, and that they indeed use ethX when they mean wls0 or something
14:17<imMute>you have to replace it with whatever your interface name is anyway
14:18<sychill>right, but when it says eth0, it's suggesting that it would be replaced with that of a wired network interface
14:18<bremner>while I'm sure the docs can be improved, you have to choose your battles
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14:18<sychill>so i need to work out if i'm making the right replacement
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14:19<imMute>you replace it with the name of the interface you want it to use. sure, using "eth0" might be confusing, but it's easily explained.
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14:20<imMute>maybe they did it that way so that if someone copy/pasted without actually reading/comprehending it would *never* work, rather than happen to work on some systems but not others
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14:20<sychill>any interface starting with "w" would give me confidence that i know what the doc is referring to, so i have to question whether i'm understanding correctly, because I do in fact also have an ethernet port, and it starts with "e"
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14:21<bremner>well, feel free to file a (severity minor) bug about the docs
14:22<imMute>me thinks it's pretty obvious that it's referring to the network interface you want to run wpa_supplicant on...
14:22<sychill>imMute: doesn't "ethernet" mean wired network? i've just never heard of wifi refered to as ethernet
14:23<sychill>maybe it's my understanding that needs adjustment here
14:23<imMute>sychill: yes, ethernet is the wired protocol. nothing is referring to wifi as ethernet
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14:24<sychill>when an interface is named "eth0", isn't the "eth" short for "ethernet"?
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14:25<bremner>sychill: what do you want from us?
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14:26<Sqrt{not}>sychill, consider, if you will, the concept of pppoe "PPP over ethernet" if you research this, you will see that they are not talking about _wired_ physical CAT6 cables or thicknet when they say ethernet, they mean the level 2 protocol
14:27<imMute>sychill: yes. but you're expected to replace "eth1" in the example with your actual interface name.
14:27<sychill>bremner: i'm trying to understand the docs. Maybe Sqrt{not} is giving clarity
14:27<imMute>sychill: doesn't matter if the placeholder is "eth1" or "foo" or anhything else
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14:28<sychill>imMute: the placeholder matters because the user must understand what replacement to make.
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14:30<imMute>sychill: personally, I think you're being super pedantic. it's clear you understand now what changes need to be made from the example, so I'm done discussing it. if you really think the docs should be changed, submit a bug report (and ideally a patch).
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14:30<sychill>"it's clear you understand now what changes need to be made" <= not prior to this discussion. the wpa_supplicant docs are crazy
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14:31<imMute>sychill: I said "now", as in *after this discussion*.
14:31<sychill>i've been struggling for days on wpa_supplicant
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14:32<imMute>also, lookinga round that document some more, I think the "ethX" on that example might actually be intentional, if it's meant for roaming between a wired and wireless network. but I've never messed with wpa_aupplicant, so I have no idea.
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14:32<imMute>and if you're having a problem configuring something, you should maybe start with that. not nitpicking some tiny detail of some document.
14:34<sychill>the wiki contradicts the man page which contradics the /usr/share/docs, so i'm struggling to work out which doc to trust more. The use of eth1 and eth0 tells me either don't trust that doc, or adjust my understanding
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14:37<sychill>well, i'm not sure if it's a case of contradiction, or just many incomplete ways to do the same thing
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14:44<sychill>so for the /etc/network/interfaces stanza I mentioned ("iface eth1 inet manual \n wpa-driver wext \n wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf") doesn't "manual" mean non-dhcp? So I must set the IP address and gateway, etc?
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14:45<sychill>i thought perhaps if there is just a "wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf", then those parameters must be set in the wpa_supplicant.conf, but i don't think the syntax for wpa_supplicant.conf covers manual settings
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14:47<sychill>the docs say: "the roaming interface MUST use the manual inet method"
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14:49<sychill>hmm, i might see what's going on. it looks like the hardware interface gets just a reference to wpa_supplicant.conf, but there are other fake devices in /etc/network/interfaces which associate to wifi profiles
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14:49<sychill>so IIUC, there must be at least 2 stanzas in /etc/network/interfaces for wifi
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14:55<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, why does is happen ? https://paste.debian.net/1202068/ - The size difference is about 3 GB, depending on notation you choose for 'df' command...
14:56<sney>r4fkramer: the difference between gigabytes and gibibytes
14:57<imMute>the man page is pretty clear on that...
14:58<sney>indeed
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14:59<mendel_munkis>about 70mebibytes per
15:01<r4fkramer>imMute, if it was clear for me, I I wouldn't have asked.
15:02<r4fkramer>sney, I thought it was strange the difference between one notation and another giving a result of 3 GB
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15:02<r4fkramer>But, forget about it, please.
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15:03<imMute>r4fkramer: GB means 1000^3 while GiB means 1024^3
15:04<imMute>so 1 GB is 1,000,000,000 bytes while 1 GiB is 1,073,741,824. that's where the difference comes from.
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15:07<Mister00X>imMute: i need to correct you gibibites are defined in powers of 2
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15:08<imMute>Mister00X: 1024 is a power of 2.
15:08<Mister00X>1 GiB = 2^30 B
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15:09<Mister00X>imMute: yes I agree
15:09<Mister00X>point taken
15:10<r4fkramer>inMute, I didn't do the calculation here; even so, I found it strange that the difference ended up being so big. Anyway, thank you very much for information.
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16:05<feiqu>It doesn't even make sense to use decimal numbers in the context of a computer. So many people are confused why some OS "only" show 59.6 GB of storage on a 64 GB stick as an example.
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16:06<imMute>feiqu: communication links are typically specced in powers of 10, not 2. so it makes sense there
16:07<Mister00X>Well thats because of the wrong unit
16:07<imMute>Mister00X: I assume you're referring to "59.6 GB" ?
16:07<Mister00X>yes
16:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 1037] by debhelper
16:08<imMute>or rather, "64 GB" is the one with the wrong unit.
16:08<Mister00X>imMute: well depends if the numbers are correct
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16:08<Mister00X>thats a bit like comparing km/h to m/s
16:08<feiqu>Yes, sorry for the confusion. I meant Windows is showing 59.6 GB while it has to be 59.6 GiB.
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16:09<feiqu>I'm not sure how other OS are handling that.
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16:09<petn-randall>Just to clear up the confusion, it's 64*1000*1000*1000 bytes, which is ~ 59.6*1024*1024*1024 bytes.
16:10<Mister00X>feiqu: Yes windows is known for the misuse of units
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16:20<Sqrt{not}>{just to get into the stickler motif of today, let me quote fdisk on my "32GB" USB: Disk /dev/sdb: 29.8 GiB, 32008830976 bytes, 62517248 sectors --- i.e. that is NOT 32 *1000*1000*1000 bytes
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16:21<Sqrt{not}>}
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16:22<imMute>Sqrt{not}: flash devices aren't ever really perfect round numbers. there's always extra headroom and reserved blocks and stuff. so I'm not surprised it's slightly larger.
16:22<milkt>is 250 MB /boot partition should be enough for bullseye for just keeping single kernel? or do i need more?
16:22<imMute>you could buy a dozen of those devices and they could all have different "actual" sizes due to different number of bad blocks out of the factory
16:23<imMute>Mister00X: that seems reasonable, if not on the largish side.
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16:23<Mister00X>uhhh no you meant milkt
16:24<imMute>ugh. yes. stupid tab complete not reading my mind.
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16:25<milkt>thanks, however, is there any official documentation or guide regarding recommended /boot partition size? i couldn't find one
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16:26<feiqu>milkt: I'm using bullseye with two installed kernel and it's using 114 MiB.
16:27<imMute>what does the installer size it at by default?
16:27<tristero>milkt: it's whatever the latest installer does. I guess if you're doing it by hand, you should know enough to size it yourself
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16:31<milkt>i see, thanks
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16:40<blast007>milkt: I would use at least 500MB
16:41<blast007>If I'm remembering correctly, I ran into issues with my manually partitioned system with a 250MB /boot partition
16:41<imMute>have you considered *not* having a separate /boot partition
16:41<blast007>(specifically, that three kernels couldn't fit within 250MB)
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16:43<imMute>blast007: what kernels are you using that are >83MB each?
16:43<Langley>Hello, I'm running Debian Cinnamon, and want a more advanced video player than totem. But installing VLC or SMplayer requires installing lots of Qt dependencies, which seems like a bad idea. Any way to avoid that?
16:44<imMute>Langley: if those programs use Qt, there's no way to not install Qt...
16:44<Langley>But what about systems that dont use Qt? Isn't the other one GTK? Do all GTK systems have Qt libs installed?
16:45<imMute>Langley: it depends on what the app uses internally. most use one or the other and can't really switch between them (being two totally different frameworks)
16:45<jmcnaught>Langley: I use GNOME and have lots of Qt apps installed, there's nothing wrong with mixing like that.
16:45<vv221>Langley, to install Qt libraries on a system with GTK applications is not a bad idea in any way ;)
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16:46<Langley>Okay, I thought differently, thanks
16:46<vv221>I can see two issues:
16:46<vv221>- disk space usage, but you will probably not notice it
16:47<vv221>- visual disparity
16:47<vv221>I don’t think it is worth avoiding good software like VLC.
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16:48<blast007>imMute: maybe I had done something silly like a 150MB /boot
16:48<Langley>Another thing, is there any way to update Mesa other than upgrading to bullseye? I don't need bullseye for anything else than mesa
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16:48<blast007>I've reinstalled that system since so I couldn't say for sure
16:48<Langley>except compiling it myself and stuff like that
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16:49<imMute>Langley: you could check backports.
16:49<Langley>I should already have that enabled, needed it for kernel, do I need anything specific to get Mesa from backports?
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16:50<imMute>no, just backports in your apt list. it's probably not backported then.
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16:51<vv221>Langley, I think the following builds targeting Ubuntu can be used on Debian too, but if it breaks your system you did not hear about it from me ;P — https://launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/ubuntu/graphics-drivers
16:51<vv221>(I know a couple Debian users using this PPA, but I do not use it myself)
16:52<jmcnaught>Sounds worse than just using bullseye
16:52<Langley>Yeah I'll just wait for bullseye...
16:53<Langley>Another thing, is pkcon supposed to "jump" upwards in the terminal for its output, overwriting everything? It's been like that on all distros
16:53<vv221>jmcnaught, I think it is more of an alternative to master builds, rather than an alternative to stable releases like we get in Bullseye.
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17:15<blast007>milkt: yeah, I must have had a 150MB /boot. Looks like some of mine have ~250MB and that's fine (two kernels installed plus grub is taking about 107MB).
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17:16<milkt>blast007: i see, i'm just trying to figure what is safest? minimum
17:16<imMute>milkt: have you considered *not* having a separate /boot partition?
17:17<milkt>can i use luks encryption without seperate /boot ?
17:17<imMute>I don't know LUKS, but I'm gonna guess no.
17:18<milkt>i see. i used to stick with 150MB boot since few year ago but had issue once when upgrading kernel
17:18<milkt>since then setting it to 250MB currently
17:19<milkt>but well i can just keep old kernel in worst case anyway
17:19<milkt>so just going to keep it 250MB until i have another issue...
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17:41<wiley>hello brothers
17:41<wiley>ho whow
17:41<wiley>firs time trying
17:41<wiley>picka do
17:41<sarnold>welcome wiley
17:41<wiley>hello
17:41<wiley>thanks for replying
17:42<Sqrt{not}>imMute, it is not correct that Langley would get a package from backports simply by having backports in the apt/sources.list --- AFAIK you must specifically request any install from backports.
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17:48<vv221>For Mesa it does not really matter: there is no Buster backport.
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18:23<quadrat>milkt just as a sidenote, as of grub 2.06 you can use luks2, sadly bullseye has 2.04, which only supports luks1, so you could theoretically encrypt /boot
18:23<itallica>hi, friends. What's the recommended way to get the latest firefox on debian stable? Apparently installing it from the unstable channel is prone to breakage, at least that's the idea I got after reading the DontBreakDebian wiki page. Thanks!
18:24<quadrat>flatpak, tar.gz, snap itallica
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18:25<itallica>is there any performance concerns by running sadboxed firefox with flatpak? and does it autoupdates more or less frictionlessly?
18:25<itallica>I'll check it out! Thank you!
18:25<quadrat>there are no autoupdates on flatpak (snap yes) but there shouldn't be any upgrade issues
18:26<quadrat>the tar.gz file from mozilla directly also has auto update
18:26<itallica>hmm, yeah. I think i'll go with that then
18:27<itallica>sadly I have to create a manual menu entry, I think :P
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18:27<quadrat>not with flatpak/snap
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18:28<alex11>i'd stay away from snaps
18:28<itallica>snap gets kind of a bad rep from wwhat I read
18:28<itallica>yeah
18:28<quadrat>reason being alex11?
18:28<alex11>afaik you can't control their update schedule and it installs things to nonstandard locations
18:28<itallica>no autoupdates are kind of a bummer. do I have to manually trigger the update from the command line?
18:28<quadrat>you can, you still need to manually avoid it (sadly)
18:28<milkt>quadrat: thanks for info, i'll test it later
18:30<quadrat>itallica yeah, flatpak has no auto updates, same with apt ;)
18:30<alex11>but i mean firefox tells you when there's updates even just using the upstream tar
18:30<itallica>oh wow, I could swear apt firefox updated itself :o
18:30<alex11>no
18:30<alex11>and especially not in Stable
18:31<itallica>huh, I guess I don't close firefox as often as I thought hehe
18:31<itallica>yeah I think flatpak works for me then
18:31<quadrat>just remember to sometimes flatpak update ;)
18:31<alex11>i have a cron job updating my flatpaks every week fwiw
18:31<itallica>I'll get messages telling me about new versions, right?
18:32<alex11>if you subscribe to firefox's mailing list then yes
18:32<alex11>otherwise no
18:32<itallica>cronjob takes the hassle away from manually doing it
18:32<ajak>mozilla's firefox announcements leave much to be desired, they're really inconsistent with it
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18:37<itallica>since the flatpak distribution of firefox is controlled by mozilla I assume I don't get the nice defaults the debian version has, right?
18:37<quadrat>alex11 disabling autoupdates on snap https://popey.com/blog/2021/05/disabling-snap-autorefresh/
18:37<quadrat>which defaults are you talking about?
18:38<itallica>https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Disabling_automatic_connections
18:38<itallica>the ones about automatic connections
18:38<quadrat>yeah those you would need to do yourself
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18:40<itallica>well, flatpak seems like a good solution overall. I am fine with the compromises :D
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18:40<itallica>thank you, you guys
18:41<quadrat>itallica just as a sidenote, at the beginning of buster there were firefox backports, and with bullseye there will *probably* also be some ambitions to get it back to stable. but for now we are sadly stranded with this "workaround"
18:42<itallica>so that's why I did not find firefox on backports!
18:43<quadrat>yeah the packages were too old at some point
18:45<itallica>well, I hope it makes its way back to backports
18:45<itallica>I think it would be a much nicer experience overal
18:45<quadrat>maybe not backports, but maybe fasttrack :)
18:48<itallica>there are so many of those channels haha
18:48<itallica>it's hard to keep track
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20:09<nyov>are there any wireshark buster backports?
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20:12<feiqu>nyov: I don't think so: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=wireshark&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all
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20:13<mendel_munkis>which grep alternative (or grep itself) is best for dealing with large (>50GB) files?
20:14<mendel_munkis>(specifically I am grepping the extracted wikipedia database dump).
20:14<sarnold>mendel_munkis: ripgrep is awesome stuff
20:14<trench>nyov: backport it yourself?
20:15<sarnold>mendel_munkis: https://blog.burntsushi.net/ripgrep/
20:16<sarnold>mendel_munkis: I've also heard good things about https://github.com/intel/hyperscan -- because it's C/C++ it might be easier to fit into some projects
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20:17<mendel_munkis>yes ripgrep scans this file significantly faster then ag or grep. thanks
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22:00-!-driib9 is "Andrew" on #debian
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22:11-!-boistordu is "realname" on #bash #C #c++ #debian #debianfr #debian-nginx #debian-qemu #debian-ubuntu #debian-xfce #dri-devel #gentoo #freenode #gfortran #haskell #hackerspaces #haiku #guardianproject #help #ifupdown-ng #java #llvm-build #mitmproxy #NetBSD #netdev #oftc #OpenBSD #php #postgresql #python #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #tor-onions #ubuntu #virt #virtualization #wayland #xfs
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22:57<bone-baboon>,crosspost
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22:59<bone-baboon>^ I think there is a bot that can recognize commands like that. Can someone please tell me where I can find it's source code.
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23:02<somiaj>search the debian wiki for DpkgBot, you can get its source code (it is an infobot) and daily dumps of its database, there is also a website that can search its database
23:02<somiaj>!infobot
23:02<dpkg>Infobot is an IRC bot that is geared towards remembering "factoids", and repeating them back to people on request. It supports many additional features, such as google lookups, dictionary, spell checker, debian package checks, and more. See http://infobot.sf.net/ for more.
23:02<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot -- there is the page
23:03<somiaj>I'm unsure how modified from the infobot sourcecode dpkg is, as that code is fairly old
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23:04-!-Brainium is "brainium" on #debian-social #linux #virt #C #tor-project #debian-br #debian-kde #debian
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23:08<bone-baboon>somiaj: Thanks
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23:25<apteryx>hello, how can I specify the number of parallel jobs to use with make in a rules file?
23:26<apteryx>(with the automatic dh machinery)
23:27<apteryx>looks like I should set the MAKEFLAGS environment variable?
23:29<apteryx>looks like it
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 23 00:00:40 2021