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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-23

---Logopened Wed Jun 23 00:00:40 2021
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01:46<once>hello
01:47<quadrat>hi
01:47<once>were you from?
01:47<quadrat>!support
01:47<dpkg>"No one can write decently who is distrustful of the reader's intelligence, or whose attitude is patronizing" - E.B. White. The same is true for giving support.
01:47<quadrat>!debian
01:47<dpkg>from memory, debian is http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents
01:47<quadrat>argh
01:47<once>pito
01:48<quadrat>this is a support channel, not chatting
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02:07<matthias>Those http:// links that dpkg reports should really be upgraded to https:// at some point. :-)
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02:27<somiaj>matthias: they should, but since default sources use http vs https, a find/replace wouldn't work, so they just manually need to be changed as they are noticed.
02:28<somiaj>dpkg: debian ~= s/http:/https:/g
02:28<dpkg>parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, somiaj
02:28<somiaj>dpkg: debian =~ s/http:/https:/g
02:28<dpkg>cannot alter locked factoids, somiaj
02:28<somiaj>ahh looks like I'll have to track down the owner of that factoid.
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02:30<matthias>:-)
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05:02<cc>how would you setup ssh access to the server so that a session can be established only for two people simultaneously?
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05:02<cc>in other words, to require that at least two people authorize and view the session
05:03<yevaud>that's just not a thing ssh supports.
05:03<Anarka>in /etc/ssh/sshd_config MaxSessions ?
05:03<cc>I know for a fact that organizations do this
05:03<yevaud>they are asking about multi party authentication.
05:03<cc>but not sure with what tools
05:03<cc>so that's what I'd like to know
05:04<Anarka>its not maxsessions
05:05<yevaud>it's not something SSH supports.
05:06<cc>then what supports this?
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05:07<yevaud>I've never actually heard of anybody making systems like that with SSH, so who knows.
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05:09<cc>and without ssh?
05:11*yevaud shrugs
05:11<petn-randall>cc: Maybe you can set something like that up with GNU screen or tmux? Or it's entirely homegrown.
05:11<yevaud>I'm not sure a user looking over the shoulder of another in a shell would actually be meaningful.
05:13<Anarka>systemctl show sshd.socket | grep MaxConnections
05:13<yevaud>that's completely unrelated to the conversation.
05:13<Anarka>if you say so
05:13<yevaud>they want multi party authentication of a single shell session.
05:14<yevaud>you're just.. for some reason pasting stuff about limits of simultaneous connections which is just noise.
05:15<cc>something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-party_authorization
05:15<pipedream>I suppose you could approximate this by seting up ssh + 2FA with libpam-google-authenticator using someone else's google account (so first your password then your colleagues 2FA needed)
05:15<Anarka>but yeah ive reread the question... werird request and not the same
05:15<yevaud>pipedream: I've seen people do that set up, but it's just theatre.
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05:16<yevaud>you need two users to participate once, and then the one with the actual shell has persistent access forever.
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06:20<g00se>I tried to make a .desktop launcher over ssh. There _must_ be a step not mentioned in the open desktop docs, perhaps some kind of 'registration' of the shortcut (for Debian at least) as it simply did not work until i got physical access to the box to make another one. Any idea what that step is?
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06:20<ratrace>g00se: "did not work"?
06:21<grawity>desktop launcher? application menu launcher? autostart launcher?
06:21<g00se>Double-click did nothing until i manually made a virtually identical launcher on the box
06:22<grawity>for the former, `chmod +x` is the first thing that comes to mind -- some desktops explicitly look at +x as the "this .desktop file is trusted" flag
06:22<grawity>(they don't literally execute it, no, but
06:22<g00se>It was executable. First thing i thought too ;)
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06:23<grawity>well, other than that, no idea
06:23<grawity>diff it and make sure you didn't make a typo
06:23<grawity>not aware of any "registration" facility on any of the desktop environments
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06:23<g00se>I did that. I think KDE has some sort of 'registration' utility
06:27<g00se>OK. I'll try another one at a different box that i also have physical access to and see what happens
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07:07<ratrace>g00se: there's no registration, but things like gnome would sometimes lag in updating the applications list; that required restarting something or nudging it, can't remember what now.
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07:08<ratrace>there's definitely no difference between supplying the file over ssh, sftp, apt installed, vim'd, or gedit'ed. A .desktop is just an INI text file.
07:09<g00se>Indeed yes
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07:09<g00se>I'm just going to try another one
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07:13<g00se>That worked. Possibly i did something stoopid last time like leave out the shebang
07:13<ratrace>g00se: what shebang?
07:14<g00se>#!/usr/bin/env xdg-open
07:14<ratrace>in .desktop or Exec'd script?
07:15<g00se>(Taken from one created through the gui (e.g. right click, new launacher etc.)
07:15<g00se>.desktop
07:15<ratrace>that should not be necessary at all. how are you starting that anyway? double-click from the file manager?
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07:16<g00se>D click on desktop launcher
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07:16<g00se>Well that's what 'they' do, so they must think it required
07:16<ratrace>hmm dunno if that's some KDE requirement then. .desktop files aren't or at least should not be executables
07:17<ratrace>(and I'm 1000% positive on that one)
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07:22<gnom3x>hello
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07:24<g00se>But it's not kde actually, it's mate
07:25<vv221>The shebang thing for .desktop, I think it is the first time I read about this. I did a quick check, it is not included in any of the .desktop files on my system.
07:25<g00se>RIght. I'll make one manually now on thise Mate desktop and see what happens
07:25<ratrace>g00se: oh, I misunderstood you earlier then. Look into /usr/share/applications. I don't know if presence of a DE alters the package postints to make the .desktop files executables with a shebang, because otherwise they aren't
07:25<vv221>It looks like a trick to have them executed like regular scripts, leading to the ability to run then on a double-click from any files manager.
07:26<vv221>That’s actually quite smart ;)
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07:26<ratrace>well yeah, file managers might not treath them specially and would require a mimetype based exec handler or a shebang
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07:27<ratrace>I would say it's abuse of privilege, more than "smart". principle of least privilege would suggest if it didn't be executable, it must not be. .desktop files should not be launched from file managers.
07:27<ratrace>we already had vulns with file managers abusing executability.... BadTaste really left... bad taste in my mouth and disgust of file managers.
07:28<ratrace>%s/didn't be /needn't be/
07:28<g00se>Yep. Adds that shebang when created manually
07:29<ratrace>what's "Yep" in reference for? checked the files in /usr/share/applications/?
07:29<g00se>No - seeing if that shebang is put in by Debian Mate
07:31<ratrace>g00se: my point is, if the regularly packaged .desktop dont' need it, then you don't need it and should avoid executability from a file manager
07:32<g00se>Yes i see. But that's academic here as i'm talking about launchers on the actual desktop
07:32<ratrace>the launchers on teh actual desktop understand non-executable, non-shebang'd, .desktop files that packages drop into /usr/share/applications?
07:32<g00se>Of course, that would appear in the File Manager i suppose
07:33<ratrace>if you're talking about dropping a .desktop on the "desktop" area of MATE ... I believe that's implicitly a file-manager-managed area, could be wrong. surely, MATE has methods of listing installed applications and presenting them through the main menu
07:33<g00se>If i were to clone that file without the shebang i'm guessing it wouldn't launch on double-click
07:34<ratrace>usually it's listings of /usr/share/applications/ and ~/.local/share/applications/
07:35<ratrace>so if you drop your .desktop there, the DE's native application launcher mechanisms should pick that up and present the app
07:35<ratrace>that's the part I said earlier about gnome needing some kind of kick to re-cache .desktops in those locations
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07:36<g00se>Right. In this case, it's just to help non-teccy users so i'd only put them on the desktop
07:36<vv221>You’re right about the abuse of the exec bit ratrace, I did not thought about it because I never try to run .desktop outside of a dedicated applications launcher/menu. The "smart" comment was about the hack itself, not the way it is used here.
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07:40<Tas-sos>Hell o/
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07:41<Tas-sos>Now I running on Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster), but I have problem with a package
07:42<Tas-sos>I tested the backports version, but it doesn't work properly, can I download and test the latest version of package from bullseye/sid ?
07:43<ratrace>Tas-sos: given that bullseye and sid are frozen, chances are they have the same version as backports. which package is it?
07:44<g00se>Thanks folks
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07:45<Tas-sos>ratrace: Hello and thanks for your help
07:45<Tas-sos>It is this ==> https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/terminator ( yes in bullsey and sid is in the same version )
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07:46<Tas-sos>But in ==> https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/terminator ( the version that I have now ) is the 2.1.0-1
07:46<ratrace>,v terminator
07:46<judd>Package: terminator on amd64 -- jessie: 0.97-4; stretch: 1.90+bzr-1705-1; buster: 1.91-4; buster-backports: 2.1.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.1.0-2; sid: 2.1.0-2
07:47<Tas-sos>because of a specific bug, I want to try the 2.1.0-2 ( maybe its fixed here )
07:47<Tas-sos>so, How can I test/download and install the version of bullseye ?
07:47<vv221>Tas-sos, the changelog is here: https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/t/terminator/terminator_2.1.0-2_changelog
07:48<Tas-sos>Like the backports ?
07:48<vv221>So you can see if your issue is mentioned there.
07:48<ratrace>Tas-sos: check the changelog vv221 linked. does the "fix white background" sound like something that wuold fix your "doesn't work properly" problem?
07:48<vv221>You are not supposed to install testing/unstable packages on a stable, unless you know how to fix a broken packages system.
07:49<Tas-sos>yes.. maybe this ==> "* fix-white-background.patch: fix a bug where having multiple tab"
07:49<Tas-sos>thanks vv221 for you opinion
07:49<vv221>To use a Bullseye package on Buster, you would have to build it from source.
07:50<vv221>The process can look a bit tedious the first time, but it is actually not that hard ;)
07:50<Tas-sos>hm.. or in a virtual system ?
07:52<vv221>There is a nice guide here about building a local backport, but it’s in French only: https://debian-facile.org/doc:mentors:retroportage
07:52<vv221>I don’t use VM (I guess that is what you call a virtual system?) so I can not comment on that.
07:53<vv221>Ah, here is the English source of the guide I shared: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_porting_a_package_to_the_stable_system
07:54<Tas-sos>vv221: Oh! Thank you very much! I wil read it!
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07:56<Tas-sos>Your aren't some way for "virtual environment" like vmware/virtualBox/virt ?
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07:59<Tas-sos>* You do not use any way to have a virtual operating system ?
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08:24<ratrace>why don't you just upgrade to bullseye, it's around the corner anyway? I did not say this. I was never here.
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08:38<vv221>Tas-sos, I use lightweight containers for some services I run, but no virtualization at all.
08:38<vv221>(I agree with what ratrace did not say)
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08:55<Tas-sos>xaxa guys! ^_^ ( I also thinking about the upgrada also for testing reasons.. :-P
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08:55<Tas-sos>can I put `bullseye` in repositories and upgrade ?
08:56<Tas-sos>I'm not doing now, just for info..
08:57<vv221>Ideally you should follow this guide: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
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08:57<Tas-sos>vv221: when you say "lightweight containers" could you tell as what you use ? I'm interested in your point of view
08:58<vv221>Here I use systemd-nspawn/machinectl to run Debian Buster containers on top of a Debian Sid host.
08:58<Tas-sos>yes of course! I love this guide! OK! Thanks! So in general yes its already to rename buster->bullsey ok!
08:58<vv221>The main one is to run a GitLab instance based on the FastTrack Debian packaging: https://wiki.debian.org/gitlab#Bullseye_FastTrack_.28Recommended.29
08:59<vv221>(I’m still on Buster FastTrack, but the upgrade to Bullseye is planned)
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09:12<stevenm_>hey I've noticed on my system there are GPG keys (for APT package signing) in both /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ and also in /usr/share/keyrings/
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09:12<stevenm_>which dir is meant to be used in which circumstances? as there are guides starting to appear for installing 3rd party APT repo's which sometimes use one dir or something use the other
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09:19<hlauer>which pdf viewer allows more zooming in as evince and atril allows?
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09:28<sussudio>hlauer: have you tried manual zoom, aka putting your eyes closer to the monitor?
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09:30<hlauer>yes - even used screenshoting with gimp, but have a pdf which needs to be zoomed in much more. And evince and atril stop at ~135%
09:30<hlauer>with this type of pdf...
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09:33<themill>okular can in principle zoom to 10000% but you may well run out of memory to render the page...
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09:37<hlauer>Ok, thx. I think, atril and evince restrict the zoom also due to similar issues
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09:47<vv221>stevenm_, /usr/share/keyrings/ is under APT control, only packages are allowed to put keys there.
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09:47<vv221>On the other hand, /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ is under the control of the system admin.
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09:49<vv221>Packages *should* not put keys in there.
09:50<themill>that's not really true
09:50<vv221>It might be an over-simplification ;)
09:50<themill>/usr/share/keyrings is for any old keyring that you want to distribute; /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d is for keys you want apt to trust
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09:52<themill>check all the foo-archive-keyring packages for instance
09:53<imMute>vv221: in general, /usr is for package manager controlled things and /etc is for sysadmin controlled things, that's true. but it's not a strict separation, as we've just seen :)
09:53<vv221>Unless I missed something, apt is already trusting the keys I have in /usr/share/keyrings/ without the need to copy them to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
09:53<vv221>(I’m mostly thinking about debian-keyring keys)
09:55<stevenm_>vv221, so if manually putting keys in somewhere prior to installing packages from a repo... then /usr/local/share/keyrings/ ?
09:55<themill>vv221: no, apt doesn't use anything in /usr/share/keyrings
09:55<imMute>vv221: and definitely not /usr/local/share/keyrings either
09:55<themill>stevenm_: if you want apt to trust the repo, it goes in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
09:55<imMute>if you want apt to trust a key, you should use 'apt-key add' anyway
09:56<stevenm_>no I'd be specifying it on the 'deb' line in the sources file
09:56<stevenm_>which I know *can* go anywhere
09:56<vv221>themill, OK, I’m probably misunderstanding some behaviour I see then.
09:56<vv221>imMute, I thought apt-key was deprecated?
09:56<themill>apt-key is definitely deprecated
09:56<stevenm_>but lots of guides are saying either /etc/apt/trusted.gpd.d/ or /usr/share/keyrings or /usr/local/share/keyrings/
09:56<imMute>vv221: themill: that's news to me.
09:56<imMute>stevenm_: guides are frequently wrong, especially as they get older.
09:57<stevenm_>for that 'deb [signed-by=' scenario
09:57<stevenm_>that is specifically what I'm asking about
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09:57<imMute>stevenm_: I've never seen that signed-by, but assuming it points at the keyring/key, you can put the key wherever your heart desires.
09:58<imMute>stevenm_: but it's probably better to skip that and just put the key in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
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09:58<themill>stevenm_: signed-by allows you to provide a path to wherever you want. If you're trying to reduce what keys can be used to sign different repos then you'd not want to make it a default key for apt
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09:59<stevenm_>right... so again /usr/share/keyrings or /usr/local/share/keyrings
09:59<stevenm_>I know it's arbitrary
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09:59<themill>stevenm_: I wouldn't put configuration in /usr
09:59<stevenm_>but I'm guessing 'local' as the file wasn't put there by a package management system
09:59<stevenm_>it would have been put there by me using curl/wget etc...
10:00<imMute>stevenm_: are you trying to do the thing themill just mentioned?
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10:00<stevenm_>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty#Complete_example
10:00<stevenm_>that ^^^
10:01<stevenm_>claims the 'deriv-archive-keyring.gpg' (some 3rd party example repo's keyring) should go in /usr/share/keyrings
10:02<imMute>eh, that sounds like a debian policy thing. you can totally put 3rd party repo keys in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
10:02<themill>stevenm_: it doesn't say it should go there at all
10:02<stevenm_>I know I *can*
10:02<stevenm_>I'm talking best practice here... so /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ is already rules out
10:02<stevenm_>as it would have the undesired affect of being a trusted key for any package from any repo
10:03<stevenm_>which is why I thought apt-key was being retired in the first place
10:03<stevenm_>*ruled out
10:03<imMute>stevenm_: personally, I'd say debian's best practice is too obtuse. I just put 3rd party keys in /etc
10:03<vv221>themill, the `wget` example command in this wiki page is targeting /usr/share/keyrings
10:03<vv221>But that does not sound like a great idea.
10:03<stevenm_>no but /usr/local/share/keyrings is appearing in other guides
10:03<themill>vv221: sure, it's also running wget as root so meh
10:03<stevenm_>which sounds like a slightly better idea
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10:04<stevenm_>but yeah - one might think /etc is better (somewhere...)
10:04<themill>None of that is saying *should*
10:04<imMute>stevenm_: and I'm not even sure what the attack scenario would be for repo A having signatures that only repo B should have...
10:04<stevenm_>like /lib/systemd/system vs /etc/systemd/system
10:04<imMute>stevenm_: those paths have very well defined semantics though.
10:04<stevenm_>sure where as this can be any arbitrary path
10:05<stevenm_>but what might be a *good* path :P
10:05<vv221>themill, it’s literally written « should » just before the wget example ;P
10:05<themill>vv221: let me change that to 'could'
10:05<vv221>stevenm_, in my opinion /usr/local/share/keyrings would be good for this use case.
10:05<vv221>But it’s nothing more than an opinion ;)
10:05<themill>it's also using SHOULD and MUST
10:06<themill>stevenm_: I'd use /etc/apt/extra-keys/; definitely not /usr
10:06<sussudio>hlauer: have you tried sumatrapdf?
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10:06<themill>I'd also not be running wget as root and the key would be distributed via ansible...
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10:08<stevenm_>this would be one very silly example (yes I'm purposefully looking for them now)... https://tecadmin.net/install-visual-studio-code-editor-ubuntu/
10:08<stevenm_>as it instructs using a 'signed-by=/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/packages.microsoft.gpg'
10:08<stevenm_>which is presumably redundant as if it's in that dir - it's not needed?
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10:09<themill>well it means that some *other* key can't sign that repo
10:09<stevenm_>and they probably mean something *like* (but again it's arbitrary) 'signed-by=/usr/local/share/keyrings/packages.microsoft.gpg'
10:09<stevenm_>true it does do that I guess
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10:12<hlauer>sussudio: which debian package?
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10:16<choozy>Hello
10:17<choozy>Is buster not installed with the modprobe raw1394 kernel module?
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10:18<sussudio>hlauer: oh, i thought there was a linux version... have you tried just extracting images with one of the pdf tools?
10:18<imMute>choozy: there's a libraw1394, do you mean that?
10:18<choozy>inMute, I have installed that, I am searching why my DV Camcorder isn't recognized by the dvgrab utility
10:19<eSa|>hi, i want to compile my debian kernel with Athlon64 GCC optimizations and -O3. Can I use apt-build or is there another way?
10:20<imMute>choozy: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/no-raw1394-module-anymore-647295/ seems to imply that the kernel module was removed over a decade ago.
10:20<choozy>I get an error like this: rom1394_0 warning: read failed: 0x0000fffff0000414
10:20<choozy>error reading config rom directory for node 0
10:20<choozy>so I'm hoping it isn't a hardware issue
10:20<hlauer>sussudio: no, any suggestion, which to use?
10:20<sussudio>choozy; that looks like a firewire error
10:20<imMute>eSa|: grab the linux source package, modify it to add whatever compile flags you want, and build it. it's pretty easy, even if the build takes a while
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10:20<sussudio>hlauer: something like pdfimages
10:21<choozy>Ah, okay
10:21<choozy>Thank you
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10:23<eSa|>imMute, I already compiled a kernel following a recent debian manual: it all boils down to a make deb-pkg. However it's not clear to me how to specify GCC FLAGS
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10:27<imMute>make deb-pkg is how you make a .deb from upstream sources. if you want all the debian patches too, you gotta use the Debian source package. in either case, I think you have to modify the Makefile to add flags
10:28<grove>Has the pool of openpgp keyservers at pool.sks-keyservers.net gotten a new address? Or is there some known issue with it currently? I can find references to it online, but I can't resolve that name from anywhere
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10:43<zeev>Hello, does `less` supports right-to-left languages? If not - which command does? Thank you!
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10:53<sussudio>zeev: why don't you try it out
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11:14<mathis>Hello. I try to install debian bullseye on t14s. After Installation the sound does not work. i do not really know how to attack the problem and which package may be needed
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11:19<bremner>mathis: for bullseye support try #debian-next
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11:26<mathis>thx bremner
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11:29<zeev>sussudio: `less` doesn't display RTL properly out of the box, so either it can't or there is an option for it...
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11:49<NoGuest17>deeeeebianskis
11:50<bremner>!ask
11:50<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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11:51<NoGuest17>= hello
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11:51<NoGuest17>google hello
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11:59<zerodey>Hey
11:59<zerodey>motherfucker
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12:00<sussudio>i guess that's normal in iran, where zerodey comes from.
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12:00<bremner>No, I don't think people from Iran are naturally rude, but in any case it's offtopic for here
12:01<zeev>that's because `less` doesn't support RTL languages
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12:38<NoGuest17>lol
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13:45<bahamat>Is there documentation anywhere about what dash supports for prompt strings?
13:46<bahamat>I'd like to set PS4 to include the date/time for a script so that the log is more meaningful, but escape strings bash uses didn't work, and putting $(date) in PS4 broke the script entirely.
13:47<imMute>I wonder if dash supports PROMPT_COMMAND. that's a more generic way to handle it
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14:01<saturno>hello
14:02<sney>hi
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14:03<saturno>Hi! I would like to join the debian community and create educational software. someone showing me the step by step to collaborate
14:04<sney>!how can i help
14:04<dpkg>Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. https://debian.org/intro/help
14:04<saturno>starting in this world is confusing at first, but I am very eager to be a collaborator
14:05<sney>are you competent with any programming languages? you could try joining their respective teams (e.g. the python team) if you don't already know a package that you want to work on.
14:06<saturno>c++ and python
14:06<saturno>I recently created an account on salsa.debian.org to upload educational applications, which allow young people to practice mathematical operations and more
14:07<sney>do those educational applications exist already, or are you developing them only for debian?
14:08<sney>you may also want to talk to the debian edu team,
14:08<sney>!edu
14:08<dpkg>Debian Edu is a project that aims to provide a free software distribution that is tailored for educational scenarios such as the class room, the staff room and the administration office. Ask me about <skolelinux>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu
14:08<eSa|>imMute, I'm playing with that, thank you
14:10<saturno>I will enter the page
14:12<saturno>#debian-edu is the irc channel?
14:12<sney>yes
14:12<saturno>thank you so much!
14:12<sney>np
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14:24<imMute>eSa|: that's what I use since I want stuff like git info in my prompt
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14:58<eSa|>imMute, Indeed I should put the tree under versioning so I can keep track of .config and Makefile changes
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14:58<eSa|>s/should/could/
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15:40<jhutchins>esum: Various forms of git are excellent for that.
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16:33<apteryx_>hello! What's the correct way to manually specify the number of parallel jobs for make? MAKEFLAGS? Something else?
16:34<towo`>make -jN
16:34<apteryx_>I used override_dh_auto_build:\n make -jN (where N is computed, for example 3), but the build still ends up using all processors (qtwebengine)
16:35<sney>I thought the env variable was MAKEOPTS
16:35<imMute>apteryx_: are you using debuild?
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16:38<apteryx_>I'm using dpkg-buildpackage
16:39<ratrace>sney: nah that's gentoo specific :)
16:39<imMute>hmm, dunno about that one, but try DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="parallel=3" dpkg-buildpackage ...
16:39<apteryx_>and iterating on this rules file: https://review.jami.net/c/ring-project/+/18394/24/packaging/rules/debian-qt/rules
16:40<apteryx_>yeah I thought perhaps I have to take the JOB_SPEC Makefile logic out at the level of the shell script launching dpkg-buildpackage. I'll do this now. Thanks.
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16:40<apteryx_>strangely, it works just fine in a spec file (Fedora/SUSE)
16:41<apteryx_>so dh must be doing something automatic that gets in the way
16:41<apteryx_>Or perhaps it's a problem in the Qt 5.15.2 build system that is only visible in some part of the build (happened while building chromium).
16:42<sney>ratrace: woops. bad brain spiders.
16:43<petn-randall>sney: We'll keep it a channel secret ;)
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16:46<apteryx_>imMute: according to https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/dpkg-dev/dpkg-buildpackage.1.en.html I could try --jobs=3
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17:20<targa>hallo
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17:44<ndorf>any recommendations for a laser printer that works with official debian packages only, i.e. no third party drivers to install?
17:45<Guest359>How to connect to a hotspot?
17:45<Guest359>Just now I have installed.
17:45<alex11>FWIW i hear brother printers tend to be linux friendly
17:46<alex11>but that's all i know
17:46<alex11>let me see, probably a wiki page on this though
17:46<sney>driverless printing makes it a lot easier nowadays, with current stuff you rarely need extra software unless you want to use a mfp scanner or some monitoring utility
17:46<alex11>yeah
17:47<sney>just don't buy the cheapest one, that's where you might hit a windows-only snag
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17:49<sney>gnome and mate on bullseye don't even ship with cups anymore (which imo is premature and a bit insane, but lol gnome) - gives you an idea of how confident they are about plug and play with ipp and no print filters/drivers
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17:49<apteryx_>hmm, perhaps related to my problem, the qt build systems says: gmake[2]: warning: jobserver unavailable: using -j1. Add '+' to parent make rule.
17:49<apteryx_>and eventually the build of chromium uses all cores. weird
17:50<apteryx_>this is invoking dpkg-buildpackage with --jobs=3, and letting dh take care of the build
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17:58<ndorf>sney: i thought "driverless" was only for wifi, not usb?
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17:59<ndorf>i was looking at some recent HP model and all the posts say it requires some HP driver which apparently doesn't even work
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18:04<sney>ndorf: ipp-usb, new in bullseye. makes usb printers behave like network print queues, aiui.
18:05<sney>hplip is still available in debian, for printers that need it for something, but any modern hp laser should be able to take postscript directly from cups, if not this ipp-usb approach as well
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18:06<sney>there are some details here: https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting#IPP-over-USB:_The_Basics
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18:10<sney>ndorf: another trick is to go to the support site for a printer model you're considering, and see if they have a windows postscript driver in a really tiny download. that'll be a single inf/cat combination and tells you the printer speaks postscript natively and will work driverless
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18:11<ndorf>interesting, thanks for that tip
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18:13<sussudio>i have a hp laserjet you can just cat postscript to.
18:13<ndorf>which model is it?
18:13<sussudio>2
18:14<sussudio>also, i have a 3Si.
18:14<sussudio>i don't use it anymore, though, since it makes the lights flicker when i turn it on.
18:14<sussudio>and it weighs like 30 or 40 kilos
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18:43<ndorf>a real classic
18:44<ndorf>at the American Computer Museum they've got a univac with 32kb RAM which weighs over 1,000 pounds
18:44<jhutchins>CUPS really sucks. There is no way to find the connection string for a printer when you share it.
18:45<jhutchins>It doesn't do network scans either.
18:46<ndorf>the very concept of CUPS doesn't sit right with me
18:46<ndorf>here, use a fucking web browser to configure your system. WTF
18:46<ndorf>i guess if i had one of these true PS printers i could just go back to lpd and a2ps
18:47<ndorf>"the good old days"
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18:48<ndorf>pic of the museum univac: https://i.imgur.com/t9QEtva.jpg
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21:41<Ellis_D>f
21:41<Ellis_D>is there an SQL channel?
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21:44<alex11>Ellis_D, just in general? there's some on libera.chat
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21:44<Ellis_D>eh, i went to freenode
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21:49<vdamewood>All the cool kids are on Libera and/or OTFC.
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21:50<Ellis_D>well
21:50<Ellis_D>i need someone who knows something about SQL
21:51<Ellis_D>cool or not
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21:51<Ellis_D>is it cool to know SQL?
21:51<sarnold>67 people think so https://netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23sql&net=Libera.Chat
21:52<Ellis_D>hm mabe i should have a gander
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21:53<A|an>try #sql on freenode
21:54<Ellis_D>yeah
21:54<Ellis_D>i'm there too
21:55<A|an>there's #sql on libera.chat
21:55<Ellis_D>i'm there too now
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21:56<A|an>maybe try an apache channel, if one exists
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21:56<Ellis_D>i'll just wait a while and see if anyone answers
21:56<A|an>you might be better off to try reddit
21:57<Ellis_D>well
21:57<A|an>or one of the stackoverflows
21:57<Ellis_D>maybe
21:57<Ellis_D>not sure if my problem is common enough to be in forums
21:57<Ellis_D>or question
21:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 1000] by debhelper
21:58<A|an>why not just pose your question and see what happens
21:58<Ellis_D>on reddit?
21:59<Ellis_D>oh, yeah i didn't think of that
21:59<Ellis_D>that is a good idea
21:59<Ellis_D>maybe that will be the next plan
21:59<A|an>don't ask, ask
21:59<A|an>don't ask to ask, ask
21:59<Ellis_D>yeah
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21:59<Ellis_D>i used to hate that
21:59<Ellis_D>people asking to ask
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22:00<ndorf>i wonder why they don't ask to ask to ask
22:00<Ellis_D>they do sometimes
22:00<Ellis_D>enquire about the rules about asking to ask
22:01<ndorf>lol. never seen that
22:01<Ellis_D>i've seen it happen once or twice
22:01<ndorf>"is it ok to ask whether or not it's ok to ask questions here?"
22:01<ndorf>like that?
22:01<ndorf>if you say yes, do they then ask to ask?
22:01<Ellis_D>that's the million dollar question
22:01<Ellis_D>what if u can ask to ask
22:01<Ellis_D>do u then ask to ask?
22:01<Ellis_D>or just ask?
22:02<ndorf>yo dawg
22:02<ndorf>the best would be if it's okay to ask to ask to ask, but not okay to ask to ask
22:03<mendel_munkis>is it okay to ask to ask to ask a question?
22:03<Ellis_D>hmm
22:03<Ellis_D>well
22:04<Ellis_D>well
22:04<Ellis_D>yeah
22:04<Ellis_D>if the answer is no
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22:05<Ellis_D>then you have to just ask
22:05<Ellis_D>but
22:05<Ellis_D>asking about asking to ask
22:05<Ellis_D>i guess that's still permitted
22:05<Ellis_D>but
22:05<ndorf>this is getting too complicated to understand, i think i'll relax by debugging some broken C++ code instead.
22:06<Ellis_D>lovely
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22:44<ryouma>update-initramfs seems to be looking for funny syntax, but for only one initrd, not for all 3 that i have: http://sprunge.us/Jhwvjf
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22:46<sarnold>what commandline did you use?
22:46<ryouma>the call is update-initramfs -t -u -k all
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22:47<sarnold>hmm, I don't see a -t documented in my ubuntu focal manpages, nor the dman version
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22:48<ryouma>sarnold: in stretch it seems to be like a force option: " -t Allows one to take over an custom initramfs with a newer one."
22:48<sarnold>hmm, in 2012 or so the -t meant "-t Allows one to take over an custom initramfs with a newer one."
22:49<sarnold>okay, cool, so it is supposed to do something. strange. otherwise I would have expected your command to work..
22:50<ryouma>otherwise? not sure what you mean. shall i try it without the -t?
22:50<sarnold>yeah, worth a try..
22:50<ryouma>this is all done in a chroot in a script
22:50<ryouma>ok
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22:51<ryouma>i have a note " # i think take over is supposed to be for this case: # update-initramfs: /boot/initrd.img-4.2.0 has been altered. # update-initramfs: Cannot update. Override with -t option."
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22:54<ryouma>now it says this http://sprunge.us/D9qJrD
22:54<ryouma>i.e. without -t it says taht. it is funny becaue i have 3, not 2, and it is copmlaining about 1, mentioning another, and ignoring hte third
22:54<sarnold>what are the contents of /var/lib/initramfs-tools/ ?
22:55<ryouma>aha
22:55<ryouma>4.9.0-14-amd64 4.9.0-15-amd64 4.9.0-16-amd64 initrd.img-4.9.0-15-amd64
22:55<sarnold>fiiiiishy :)
22:55<ryouma>should i delete the one with initrd in it?
22:55<sarnold>I think move it aside, instead
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22:56<ryouma>i think you are onto something though. ok, i will moe it to ... um, /boot or something?
22:56-!-user is now known as Guest379
22:56<sarnold>mv it to your home directory or /tmp and see if the update-initramfs command runs better
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22:59<ryouma>says it has been altered. i will go back to -t and try again.
22:59<sarnold>sounds good
23:03<ryouma>looks good to me. i think you fixed it. thank you. i will try booting to see if the most recent still works and if i get the option i might try 15 just to confirm also.
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23:07<sarnold>woot
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23:16<alex11>unattended upgrades - is it worth it as a desktop user? does it ever get in the way of regular computer use? does it tell you when services/the system have to be restarted?
23:20<quadrat>yes, no, no
23:21<alex11>i do keep on top of all the security emails but i don't for backports and non-free stuff
23:21<bremner>it tells me when the sytem needs to be rebooted.
23:21<quadrat>just as a side note, there are cases where you would need to restart the program (best example is firefox imo)
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23:22<quadrat>by default backports aren't upgraded
23:22<quadrat>bremner gnome-software?
23:22<alex11>hmm
23:22<alex11>i had dino from backports update though
23:23<bremner>quadrat: no, unattended-upgrades
23:23<quadrat>then output your config ;)
23:23<quadrat>bremner ahh so it notifies you per email?
23:23<bremner>quadrat: yes, perhaps because I also have needs-restart installed
23:23<ryouma>sarnold: 16 and 15 and my outside of the chroot 16 all work. thank you.
23:24<alex11>well my config is literally just putting the backports line in /etc/apt/sources.list
23:24<bremner>sorry, the package is needrestart
23:24<alex11>i don't think i'll bother, honestly
23:24<quadrat>alex11 I was talking about unattended-upgrades config
23:25<alex11>oh
23:25<alex11>no i haven't set it up yet
23:26<alex11>i guess you didn't mean me though
23:26<quadrat>so then something else happened to the upgraded backports package, because by default unattended upgrades only updates security fixes, not upgrades (which means backports will not be upgraded)
23:27<alex11>ah ok
23:27<alex11>yeah i haven't set it up yet, i just did a normal apt update manually
23:28<alex11>but i don't know when backports/non-free packages get updated but i imagine it's not much of a security risk missing a few days
23:28<alex11>i don't want to subscribe to three lists
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23:29<quadrat>so now it really depends on how you like to configure it, for example I just configured it to upgrade everything on my parents pc, which for now didn't break anything (but there is also only firefox and thunderbird installed)
23:29<quadrat>for my own systems I don't do this
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 24 00:00:41 2021