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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-06-30

---Logopened Wed Jun 30 00:00:50 2021
00:01<xSnowdropx>Ok, I followed instructions (https://www.linuxbabe.com/command-line/ubuntu-server-16-04-wifi-wpa-supplicant) to connect with wpasupplicant, and it worked! But why did NM suddenly fail?
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00:02-!-seeS_ is "Craig" on #debian
00:02<xSnowdropx>I did purge/reinstall both NM and wpassuplicant just before you replied, but NM still doesn't work
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00:09<xSnowdropx>According to https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#NetworkManager_Frontends "NetworkManager itself is a frontend for different network backends (wpa_supplicant by default)", so yes it does use wpasupplicant
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00:31<xSnowdropx>I managed to get NM working by adding the router MAC address in the BSSID field in the Wi-Fi tab...
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00:50<Wulf>Hello! Is there some simple GUI program which takes care of acquiring+renewing kerberos tickets for me?
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01:46<tanzeelkhan>hi
01:46<tanzeelkhan>hello
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06:07<krumelmonster>My VM won't boot anymore giving me IO errors ( http://ix.io/3rxY ). I used qemu-nbd on the qcow2 to connect it and tried to fsck. boot partition is clean. For the encrypted root partition, it doesn't seem to detect a filesystem on the luks mapper device?: http://ix.io/3ry0
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06:10<krumelmonster>Ah, I guess I have to do something about the lvm…
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06:13<krumelmonster>fsck /dev/dm-1 tells me it's clean and I can mount it nice! Still, the vm won't boot :S
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06:14<ratrace>krumelmonster: how about gpt and bios grub partition
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06:14<ratrace>the sector number, assuming linearity, might suggest early on the disk, so perhaps your bios_grub is first few MB
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06:16<ratrace>but re-reading the error messages ... I don't think it's a problem with on-disk data, but with accessing the virtual disk in the first place. is this qcow on any fancy, exotic layer, nfs, weird filesystem, anything like that?
06:18<krumelmonster>indeed the qcow is stored on a gocryptfs fuse (which by the way I need to get rid of because it makes trouble all the time). However this used to work so I really wonder what happened
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06:18<ratrace>yeh I'd start by (temporarily) moving it to a saner location and trying out the VM
06:19<krumelmonster>Ok, I'm just creating a quick backup now that I have it mounted, then I'll try that. Thanks
06:19<ratrace>you can copy the entire qcow file
06:21<krumelmonster>ratrace: Actually I won't need this vm much more but I will have to review its configuration soon, so I'll just tar up the files. I still want to investigate this problem just to make sure it isn't caused by the guest configuration (which I'll be moving into production)
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06:23<ratrace>I'd be willing to put ten virtual credits on "gocryptfs FUSE borked it"
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06:26<user>Hello
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06:26<Guest982>anyone knows something about tor?
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06:27<Guest982>I am using Whonix
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06:32<ratrace>!whonix
06:32<dpkg>Whonix is a Linux distribution based on Debian, distributed as two virtual machine images. It is not supported in #debian; ask me about <based on debian>. http://whonix.org/ #whonix on irc.oftc.net. If you are new to linux try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
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06:32<krumelmonster>ratrace: Please wire the credits: It's weird but I just remembered the one thing I really changed since it worked which is that I redirected a new usb device. This reproducably causes this issue. What's especially weird is that this usb device is no mass storage.
06:33<krumelmonster>When the vm is stuck with these errors and I remove the usb device it will instantly boot. This is really weird!
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06:34<ratrace>krumelmonster: credits wired. but still... FUSEfs crypto layer under a CoW fs ... it just asking for trouble :)
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06:36<krumelmonster>I know! gocryptfs was a regretable decision for me. I've been thinking for months about how to migrate and to what.
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06:39<ratrace>why not LUKS everything. the only inconvenience is inputting a passphrase on every boot but .... is anyone rebooting in 2021? :)
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06:40<ratrace>unless you have a very old potato CPU, you'd have AESNI in CPU and encryption will not be an overhead.
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06:43<krumelmonster>ratrace: The idea was that I'd like to be able to lend this device to close friends/housemates of mine without telling them my password. It also feels right to me to encrypt my home directory separately because this encryption is for my person and not for this device if that makes any sense.
06:45<ratrace>I see. you might wanna consider ZFS (buster-backports or bullseye onward, you'd want 0.8.x or newer) as it permits per-dataset encryption. you'd also benefit from all the other features of ZFS: compression, snapshots, data checksumming. But it is a bit.... more complex and advanced to set up and maintain sanely.
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06:50<krumelmonster>I'll read into it and consider a few options but details aside: If you had to switch from my setup to any sane one. With my ssd being at 80% full – I should probably buy a second ssd and just migrate to the new one, everything else will be painful, right?
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06:59<krumelmonster>By the way concerning my vm issue: When I turn on this usb device on while the system is running, the disk will instantly fail and the system becomes unusuable; As soon as I turn it off again, everything is back to normal. Isn't that extremely strange?
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07:00<ratrace>krumelmonster: what usb device? host side or something you're passing through to the VM?
07:02<krumelmonster>It's a smart card reader by a well known german manufacturer connected to the host, drivers are included with debian. Interestingly, it presents itself as two usb devices and one of them lead to this issue
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07:11<krumelmonster>I created a new vm with a qcow2 disk on /tmp (which is a tmpfs) and the debian installer has exactly the same issue. Hardware detection is stuck until I remove the usb device
07:11<krumelmonster>but only with this specific device
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07:20<Blendie>ratrace: there is an option to encrypt just $HOME with ecryptfs
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07:21<ratrace>krumelmonster: so to get is straight: (re)moving the USB device on the host, that is not in any way given to qemu, messes with qemu's ability to access the qcow file properly?
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07:22<ratrace>Blendie: maybe you meant that for krumelmonster
07:22<Blendie>well i'm not recognising this convo very mych so, maybe, yes
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07:25<krumelmonster>ratrace: Sorry no, the device is physically plugged the whole time, I just turn on usb redirection for it and that will freeze disk access on the guest. When I turn off redirection for that device, guest operation will resume.
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07:26<ratrace>krumelmonster: ah redirection into qemu?
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07:27<krumelmonster>Yes, I use virt-manager which has a menu to toggle per-device redirection on the fly.
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07:28<krumelmonster>If you think this is really weird (like kernel-bug weird maybe), I can try to reproduce it on bare metal and boot the debian installer from usb.
07:29<ratrace>if you tried that, it'd show where the bug is: in qemu-kvm or (guest) kernel driver for the device messing up entire xhci stack
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10:36<wwilliam>I have a log file within a zip file, how do i grep from that log file without unzipping for a pattern?
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10:38<petn-randall>wwilliam: `zgrep` if it's a .gz.
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10:40<wwilliam>it is .zip
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10:44<petn-randall>wwilliam: Then AFAIK the easiest way is to unzip it.
10:44<wwilliam>is 352 zips
10:45<petn-randall>for loops exist.
10:45<wwilliam>Yes I just dont have the space. Thank you.
10:45<petn-randall>wwilliam: This will unzip all those for you: `for i in `ls -1 *.zip`; do unzip ${i}; done`
10:46<themill>ugrep claims to be able to grep through the contents of zip files directly
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10:48<wwilliam>will check
10:48<wwilliam>Thank you all.
10:50<themill>(I've never used it)
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11:02<wwilliam>Anyway to unzip just certain file from a zip file? not all of them? in this case *.LOG?
11:04<koollman_>wwilliam: man unzip | grep -B 1 -A 3 'optional list'
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11:15<pi__>pppppppppppppppppppppppp
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11:22<wwilliam>koollman_: Checking Thank you.
11:23<michele_>good morning, i send message from wsl1 with gnu/debian
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11:27<wwilliam>Hey koollman_ thank you very much!! I will do that.
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11:28<michele_>but i have a problem when i want identify my nick on frenode server. irssi says 'Nick michele isn't registered'. so i register it with this command '/msg NickServ REGISTER passwd email', but when i do this irssi says 'the address 'email' has reached itsusage limit of 1 user'. Can you help me please?
11:29<quadrat>michele_ why do you think you get support for freenode on oftc?
11:29<sney>!freenode
11:29<dpkg>freenode is no longer a recommended IRC network for Debian support. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/06/msg00002.html , or see <debian irc>. If you can't find the new IRC home of a project, try looking at https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus
11:30<michele_>ok thanks you quadrat
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11:44<ircuser69>Hello, the 10.10 graphical installer does not work, it shows a looping Xorg server error
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11:45<sney>did any previous 10.x graphical installers work on your hardware?
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11:48<ircuser69>sney: yes, I've installed 10.x fine back in 2019 or 2018
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11:50<ircuser69>sney: not sure if it was graphical install though, most likely
11:50<sney>ok, what gpu is in this system?
11:50<ircuser69>intel hd
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11:52<sney>alright, that should definitely work. can you get access to that Xorg error log? you should be able to get a tty with ctrl-alt-f3 or so, though I'm not sure where the installer would store it
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11:58<ircuser69>sney: I'll try doing that now
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12:14<ircuser69>sney: https://0x0.st/-pFx.jpg
12:14<ircuser69>also, the error itself looks like that https://0x0.st/-pF4.mp4
12:16<sney>that "undefined video mode" message is interesting, I wonder if you might get a better result by looking at its list and specifying something
12:16<sney>but also, did you verify this installer image? how did you write it to usb?
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12:18<ircuser69>sney: checksums were correct, I've just dd it like always
12:18<ircuser69>:shrug:
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12:24<ircuser69>https://0x0.st/-pFU.png is that something useful?
12:24<ircuser69>bruh I don't want to install ubuntu again
12:26<quadrat>did you try text mode installer ircuser69
12:27<sney>^ right, if you just want to install debian, use the text installer ("Install" in the menu)
12:28<sney>the graphical/text installers are the same with the same menus and same defaults. and you don't need the graphical installer to install debian with a gui.
12:28<ircuser69>quadrat: that's my only computer, so if I get a broken install, that'd be hard to fix
12:29<quadrat>ircuser69 if you still have an installed system, then I would probably reflash the image, I had a usb disk in the past where I had to always dd twice to get a working disk
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12:43<jim_>have not ran debian for long time. is there a newbie doc i can read
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12:45<gigabom>Boa tarde
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12:47<ratrace>jim_: doc about what? https://www.debian.org/doc/
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12:48<jim_>tx ratrace
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13:33<Passerby>Is there a way to prevent cron from escaping non-ASCII output in its logs? I want to see Unicode as-is instead of "CRON[1234]: (user) CMD (\397\323\349\318\392\287\350\202\274\346\292\294)" or whatever in journalctl output.
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13:36<sussudio>there's forbidden channels? like #GAMP or something?
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13:41<scorpion2185[m]>what is the right team for a RFP of a timer?
13:42<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: What kind of timer?
13:44<scorpion2185[m]>App to set multiple timers sequentially. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=982985
13:44<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/982985 in wnpp (open): «RFP: multi-timer -- App to set multiple timers sequentially.»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2021-02-17; last modified: 2021-02-17.
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13:52<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: Usually you'll need to convince someone to package it, and also convince them that it's worth their time. Meaning it fills a gap that other tools already packaged don't fill.
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13:54<scorpion2185[m]>I didn't find other valid timers for multiple timers
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14:31<bahamat>is there a place I can look up nic driver names? E.g., I've got eno1 and enp132s0f1
14:32<imMute>bahamat: google for "linux predictable device names"
14:32<bahamat>I'd like to extract just the 'eno' and 'enp' portions, but I don't think I can just count on it being three characters..
14:32<imMute>bahamat: those are device names, not driver names, btw.
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14:33<bahamat>Ok, I'm used to illumos where we have like bnx and ixgbe
14:35<ratrace>use lspci -k or -v to see modules (drivers) used for particular pci device
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14:54<wheeler>Is the xorgxrdp package compiled with --enable-glamor? https://github.com/neutrinolabs/xrdp/issues/1690
14:55<wheeler>Or more generally, how can I find out how a particular debian package is compiled?
14:55<bremner>you can buildd.debian.org for the logs
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14:56<bremner>it may be a bit tricky to find the right version
14:56<bremner>wheeler: you can also look at the package source, available via tracker.debian.org
14:56<wheeler>thanks, bremner, I'll take a look and see what I can find
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15:03<wheeler>Found an --enable-glamor flag for override_dh_auto_configure: https://salsa.debian.org/debian-remote-team/xorgxrdp/-/blob/master/debian/rules#L60
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15:05<bremner>so in the latest version it is enabled. You'd have to trace back if you care about earlier versions (it isn't necessarily true that the version in salsa is uploaded)
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16:16<adam12>Does anybody know if an upgrade from bullseye-rc2 to bullseye-release (/stable/whatever the official release is) is solely a dist-upgrade? apt sources don't look versioned at all so I'm presuming just a dist-upgrade is necessary at the time. Can someone confirm?
16:17<imMute>I would think 'apt full-upgrade' is all you need, but I could be wrong.
16:18<ratrace>regular `apt upgrade` woudl suffice
16:18<adam12>Very good, thanks.
16:18<ratrace>there is no bullseye-rc2. there's only bullseye in its current state, called "testing" until it's no longer called "testing", but "stable"
16:19<imMute>I seem to recall that full-upgrade was introduced to be the one you use all the time no matter what (to remove the ambiguity around upgrade vs dist-upgrade and which to use which)
16:19<ratrace>mayhaps you were thinking about versioning of the installer
16:20<sney>they usually are
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16:23<amacater>ratrace - there are media images for RC2 so I can see the confusion ...
16:24<quadrat>imMute afaik, full-upgrade an alias, as dist-upgrade was confusing for most
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16:46<bone-baboon>Who should I talk to about a potentially problematic package that Debian is distributing?
16:46<sney>!reportbug
16:46<dpkg>reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA>
16:46<sney>even if it's not strictly a software problem, it belongs in the bts
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16:46<sney>make sure to check first in case someone has already reported the same issue.
16:47<jhutchins>imMute: full-upgrade is more appropriate wording when doing things like point release upgrades.
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16:48<jhutchins>sney: reportbug is pretty good about screening existing reports similar to a new one.
16:49<sney>true
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16:50<bone-baboon>sney: Thanks
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16:54<jhutchins>bone-baboon: Might post a brief summary here as well.
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16:56<bone-baboon>jhutchins: Here is a summary. <https://bonebaboon.tilde.site/rust-trademark-policy-issue/>
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16:59<koollman_>bone-baboon: oh, you can make it short, then. "rust may need rebranding like firefox did, which is why debian made iceweasel"
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17:02<bone-baboon>koollman_: Thanks for summarizing the summary.
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17:44<Passerby>You should use "grep -c" instead of piping to wc. Better yet, run "grep -o | wc -l" to produce the actual number you advertise.
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17:47<bone-baboon>Passerby: Thanks for that suggestion.
17:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 1027] by debhelper
17:48<Passerby>Thank you for bringing a potential issue to people's attention.
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18:06<NthDegree>By the standards on that page, Linux would be a problematic package
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18:07<NthDegree>I mean I couldn't take half of kFreeBSD, merge it in with Linux kernel code and publicly refer to the package as Linux
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18:12<jhutchins>There are pedantic definitions of terms, and there is actual public usage of them.
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18:14<jhutchins>I could take half of kFreeBSD, merge it in with Linux kernel code and publicly refer to the package as
18:14<jhutchins>Fred.
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18:16<luis_>Good day for all.
18:18<quadrat>night ^^
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18:23<luis_>quadrat, thanks, night.
18:23<luis_>I did an installation preserving / home but I changed the owner's name, so another / home / newuser was created next to my / home / originaluser. I created the originaluser I assigned it the / home / originaluser and I try to enter the account without anything happening. What could I have needed to make the process complete?
18:23<luis_>Once the above is fixed, it would remove "newuser" and his / home.
18:26<luis_>My new distribution is Emmabuntus DE4 (Debian Edition), I come from Linux Mint.
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18:27<bremner>!mint
18:27<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
18:28<bremner>never heard of Emmabuntus, but it's still not debian
18:28<bremner>!based on debian
18:28<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
18:28<luis_>dpkg, I come from ..., now I use a Based on Debian
18:28<dpkg>parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, luis_
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18:31<luis_>dpkg, Excuseme: I now use a distribution based on debian. I know that isn't debian but the process that I want to complete is common to the derivates on debian
18:31<dpkg>that's too long, luis_
18:31<jmcnaught>luis_: dpkg is a bot
18:32<luis_>jmcnaught, Oh, thanks jmcnaught
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18:34<luis_>jmcnaught, the name was suspect
18:34<luis_>;-)
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18:36<luis_>bremner, I wanted to install debian but never work the wifi
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18:37<dax>if you're using a distro based on debian, please use that distro's support venues, not here
18:37<dax>#debian is for discussion of actual debian, not derivatives of it
18:37<dax>we have no idea what changes your distro makes to Debian, and thus aren't able to support it
18:38<luis_>dax, I not need help on Emmabuntus I need help on Linux debian
18:38<dax>you literally just said you're not using Debian
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18:39<Linux-Fan>luis_: If your Wifi is not working with the regular Debian installer, you might try the unofficial one with firmware: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.10.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.10.0-amd64-netinst.iso
18:40<luis_>dax, But it costs a lot to help without looking at who? the base commands are exactly the same and what I am asking is not specific to the xxxxx distribution but linux in general
18:40*dax shrugs her shoulders and goes back to idling
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18:41<luis_>Linux-Fan, but now I installed those, and I need, for now, to solve this issue
18:42<luis_>Linux-Fan, next I will try about
18:42<Linux-Fan>luis_: Regarding the issue of changing users and home directories: You could always check if it is just wrong user IDs (i.e. compare ls -l for /home/youruser with the user's entry from /etc/passwd and /etc/group). You might then fix the permissions with a `chown user:group -R /home/user` (be careful to get the numbers right, this command can destroy things!) Apart from that, there is not much here to
18:42<Linux-Fan>tell: Derivatives of Debian may differ in just about any way and how would I know whether it plays a role in the specific scenario.
18:43<luis_>Linux-Fan, thanks. I go to work on them now
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18:44<Linux-Fan>luis_: Check twice that you are using the correct home directory and IDs. If you apply the chown on the wrong user, that user may not be able to login anymore.
18:44<luis_>Linux-Fan, Ok, thanks for the warning.
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18:46<luis_>hum, I see that ls -l /home/olduser have owner the newuser and the group fuse
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18:47<Linux-Fan>luis_: Try `ls -ln /home/olduser` to see the numberic values. But is already really looks as if the user's IDs do not match the ones on the new installation.
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18:48<luis_>user 1000 group 1000
18:50<luis_>I go to make: chown olduser:olduser /home/olduser
18:51<luis_>chown -R ...
18:51<Linux-Fan>luis_: Yes. Note that it's strange to have a group 1000 for `fuse` -- I am not sure if this could occur on Debian proper?
18:51<luis_>Linux-Fan, Yes, I never see something similar too
18:51<quadrat>it won't happen on debian proper
18:51<Linux-Fan>quadrat: Thanks for confirming :)
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18:52<Linux-Fan>luis_: It shows that there can be differences even in things as simple as the default users and permissions...
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18:53<luis_>Linux-Fan, Yes sir.
18:54<luis_>Linux-Fan, Don't permit to change the owner ...
18:55<luis_>Oh, I was change the olduser number to 1003, I go now to revert to 1000
18:56<Linux-Fan>luis_: Use sudo or su whichever is configured. `sudo chown olduser:olduser -R /home/olduser`. Btw.: In case the user is registered on your current installation, there is no need to fiddle with the numeric IDs, just put in the user's name and group name in the `chown` command. I like the numbers for confirmation, though :)
18:56<luis_>Excuse me, to 1001 because the new user is the 1000
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18:57<Linux-Fan>On Debian systems, 1001 is the ID by default given to the 2nd added user hence it makes sense (where the `fuse` ID 1000 does not...)
18:59<luis_>Yes, And additionally sudo chmod olduser:olduser /home/olduser make nothing
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19:00<Linux-Fan>luis_: It should not produce any output. You need the `-R` switch and afterwards, you can confirm with `ls -l` whether it worked.
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19:01<luis_>Linux-Fan, yeap now is working the system on that
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19:02<Linux-Fan>luis_: Can the user whose /home directory you chown'ed log in successfully?
19:03<luis_>I this moment not, I hope that finishing chown process ..
19:04<luis_>Now, have the user and group: olduser. I go to close session and proof if this work.
19:04<luis_>Now, It have the user and group: olduser. I go to close session and proof if this work.
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19:05<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, emmabuntus is a linux distribution, based on debian and ubuntu. It is not debian, and is not supported here. Seek help at http://forum.emmabuntus.org/ or https://emmabuntus.org/
19:05<dpkg>okay, Sqrt{not}
19:05<luis_>Linux-Fan, Thanks. If all work you don't see anymore, on the contrary...
19:05<luis_>Linux-Fan, Thanks. If all work you don't see to me anymore, on the contrary...
19:05<luis_>Excuse my poor english
19:06<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, emmabuntus =~ s/a /<reply>Emmabuntus is a /
19:06<dpkg>OK, Sqrt{not}
19:07<Linux-Fan>luis_: Never mind the English. I am not a native either. Next time, be sure to seek out the help from your derivative's support channels first. Sqrt{not} has given some links above for the purpose. You get to know the community of exactly your distribution and maybe they have some helpful tricks over there, too :)
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19:16<luis_>Linux-Fan, All working. Now I am deleting some configuration files. Thanks again.
19:16<Linux-Fan>luis_: You're welcome.
19:17<luis_>I will return if I have new problems. Bye. Good night.
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20:44<sirmanuel>Hi guys
20:45<sirmanuel>who can help me, My lockscreen looks dark
20:45<sirmanuel>i'm using KDE
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20:57<sirmanuel>who can help me, My lockscreen looks dark
20:57<sirmanuel><sirmanuel> i'm using KDE
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21:10<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, I've closed virt-manager 10 minutes ago, but 10 processes related to libvirtd continue running:https://imgur.com/gallery/fPS5ZbZ
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21:11<r4fkramer>Why does it happen ? Apparently, they should be stopped already. Running virt-manager in debian bullseye 11.0 here.
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21:11<sarnold>r4fkramer: virt-manager is just a gui frontend to help you control what libvirtd is doing
21:12<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: virt-manager is a front-end for libvirtd which is a daemon that always runs in the background
21:12<sarnold>r4fkramer: virt-manager can manage a libvirtd on the current machine or a remote machine
21:12<r4fkramer>Hi sarnold, thanks for answering. But, isn't libvirtd controlled by the application that uses it for virtualization ?
21:13<sarnold>r4fkramer: yes and no..
21:13<sarnold>r4fkramer: you can also use virsh to manage libvirtd; or you could hand-write the xml files for libvirtd; I'm sure there's other tools to manage libvirtd, too
21:13<r4fkramer>I see, jmcnaught. Did you see my post ? There are 10 processes related to it still running....
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21:14<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: "systemctl status libvirtd.service | nc termbin.com 9999"
21:14<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: I don't know why so many processes would be running, I only have one running.
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21:15<r4fkramer>Please, sarnold, was libvirtd already available in my debian installation before virt-manager installation ? I thought it was dependent on virt-manager installation, in my particular case here.
21:16<r4fkramer>Ok, jmcnaught, so you agree it's strange situation here, don't you ?
21:16<jmcnaught>libvirt likely got installed as a dependency of virt-manager, but like most daemons in Debian it gets started automatically when it is installed
21:17<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, you passed me a commad, thank you. Let me try it now.
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21:17<r4fkramer>Please, sarnold, did you check my post about 10 processes related to libvirtd running simultaneously ?
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21:18<sarnold>r4fkramer: it's entirely possible that libvirtd wasn't installed until you installed virt-manager, but at least in my ubuntu packaging it looks like the libvirt-daemon-system package is only a Recommends: from virt-manager
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21:19<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, the output for the command you've passed me: https://termbin.com/i7csn
21:19<sarnold>r4fkramer: yes, that's how I knew they were libvirtd processes and not virt-manager processes :)
21:20<r4fkramer>Fine, but in this case, isn't so strange 10 processes instead of just one ?
21:20<sarnold>no, many programs are multi-threaded these days
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21:21<r4fkramer>So, according this reality, it's common here...
21:22<sarnold>yeah
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21:23<r4fkramer>Well, I was always killing these processes whenever stopped virt-manager...so, a wrong action.
21:24<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: in general stopping a service with systemctl is better than killing processes.
21:24<sarnold>yes :) you can use systemctl stop libvirtd
21:24<sarnold>note that will probably stop whatever VMs you might have running
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21:24<sarnold>(I sure hope it does..)
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21:24<r4fkramer>Fine jmcnaught :0
21:25<r4fkramer>Correcting: :)
21:26<r4fkramer>Fine, sarnold :) No worries about it. I didn't need to run vm anymore.
21:27<r4fkramer>Well, Debian Warriors sarnold and jmcnaught, really thank you very much for your attention and (always !) Great Support :) Always happy to see you every day here !
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21:27<sarnold>r4fkramer: ooh, in htop there's a setting "Hide userland process threads" that you can use to toggle the thread display
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21:29<r4fkramer>Fine, I'll start using this htop setting next time. Thank you very much, sarnold !:)
21:29<r4fkramer>Never paid attention about it before
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21:34<userOMEA>علعد
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21:35<RoadRunner>would a i386 release of Debian 10 (or any other version) with a current browser (pref Firefox) work on a Pentium III (1000MHz) with 512MB of RAM?
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21:35<imMute>didn't Debian drop i386? and it was actually i586 or i686 for a while too?
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21:37<jmcnaught>RoadRunner: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.en.html#idm272 CPU requirements in the install manual says "However, Debian GNU/Linux buster will not run on 586 (Pentium) or earlier processors."
21:37<jmcnaught>RoadRunner: so you can probably install Debian and get a window manager and some apps running, Firefox might not work on so little RAM though
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21:40<RoadRunner>jmcnaught: my whole purpose is to be able to use a browser and idealy be able to watch youtube (if it can't be done with Firefox but with something else - so be it)
21:41<jmcnaught>RoadRunner: you could always boot a Debian Live CD on it and see what works.
21:42<sarnold>RoadRunner: there's a handful of tools like https://github.com/mps-youtube/mps-youtube that might do better than firefox
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21:44<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, I have run debian 10 on a pentium III
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21:45<RoadRunner>Sqrt{not}: did the browser work?
21:45<Sqrt{not}>my Pentium III has only 384 MB of RAM, but with lots of swap it works OK, albeit a little slow
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21:46<Sqrt{not}>yes, I ran it with the Mate DE, and it was OK, for what it is ;)
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21:47<RoadRunner>sarnold: thank you for that idea - it is certainly something to concider
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21:50<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, my advice is be selective about what you install, tailor it to just what you plan to do, so there isn't useless stuff competing for memory
21:51<RoadRunner>Sqrt{not}: I am OK with Xfce, but would like to be able to watch video, so what ver of Deb would you guys recomend?
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21:55<Sqrt{not}>I would recommend current stable, just to be up to date on security and bugfixes
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21:57<RoadRunner>but an i386 release?
21:58<sarnold>yeah, I think pIII was an i386
21:58<Sqrt{not}>xfce or lxde are reasonably light on memory, and if you are just doing one thing (video) you shouldn't have problems.
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21:58<Sqrt{not}>I think it's actually a 686
21:59<Sqrt{not}>it certainly installs from the release i386 images, and also runs the release live 1386 images
22:00<Sqrt{not}>some people recently don't like swap very much, but I find it very handy ;)
22:01<sarnold>having swap enabled is a great idea
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22:04<sirmanuel>who can help me with a issue?
22:04<RoadRunner>how much swap should I make available?
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22:06<Sqrt{not}>how much swap, depends on how much you plan to do at the same time. I think my Pentium has a 4GB swap partition. You can always add a swap file later, if you need more
22:07<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, tell us more details about your issue
22:07<sirmanuel>my lockscreen looks dark
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22:08<sirmanuel>Sqrt{not}
22:09<sarnold>RoadRunner: I'd suggest between 512M and 1G. You'll be having a bad day if you're actually one gigabyte into swap on this machine, I think I'd rathre have things fail before that point
22:09<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, you can customize your lock screen. see: https://www.maketecheasier.com/customize-kde-lock-screen/
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22:12<RoadRunner>what's the latest thinking: is a swap partition prefered vs a swap file or not?
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22:12<RoadRunner>sarnold: so are saying there is no point in having more than 1G dedicated to swap?
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22:13<Sqrt{not}>My definition of a bad day is not the same --- being rather ADD, I sometimes find myself with waaaay too many things open and running at the same time, and I would prefer them to run a little slower, instead of having them randomly die for lack of memory
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22:14<Sqrt{not}>And when I can discipline my computing down to only a few things at the same time, the unused swap space isn't hurting anybody. OOM killer is evil
22:14<sarnold>RoadRunner: swap files are more flexible, swap partitions have slightly less overhead. it's really no big deal either way I don't think
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22:18<RoadRunner>if I start with a 1-2G swap partition and later decide to add an additional swap file for more space - any issues with that approach?
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22:18<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, that should work just fine
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22:20<Sqrt{not}>And if you are just watching video on a halfway efficient platform, you might not need much of it at all.
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22:22<RoadRunner>coming from the land of ubuntu, is there such a thing as LTS releases for Debian?
22:22<Sqrt{not}>%lts
22:22<dselect>Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and <stretch-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net.
22:22<sarnold>yes https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
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22:50<RoadRunner>do I grab a CD or DVD image?
22:54<sarnold>probably cd, you can usually use apt to install whatever you need once you're installed
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23:01<RoadRunner>to be sure I fully understand: the current 32-bit Debian-10.10.0-i386-netinst.iso should ran fine on my Pentium III and if will want to extend its life, I will be able to get patches from debian.org/LTS?
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23:21<dvs>RoadRunner: or you could wait about a month for Debian 11 to come out
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23:27<RoadRunner> dvs: but then, as with anything new, there will be bugs, catchup patches, etc... what would be the main benefits?
23:28<dvs>RoadRunner: Oh? You want a "one and done" solution?
23:28<RoadRunner>dvs: :) tried and true is my way
23:29<dvs>Then you came to the right place!
23:30<RoadRunner>:) seriously, what are the big things in 11?
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23:31<dvs>The kernel for starters.
23:31<dvs>Support for newer hardware.
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23:32<RoadRunner>oh, forgot to ask, the default stable image comes with what desktop? I would like xfce
23:33<dvs>default desktop is Gnome
23:34<RoadRunner>could you direct me to a place where current images with xfce can be downloaded from?
23:34<Blendie>RoadRunner: there are cd images for a major desktop enviroment
23:34<Blendie>also, you can get a dvd instll image that will contin them all
23:35<dvs>RoadRunner: you can select which desktop environment you want if you use the Advanced installer.
23:35<Blendie>and you'll be able to pick them from the install menu
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23:38<RoadRunner>Blendie: so where would I find a CD image with xfce?
23:38<apteryx>Hello! I'm still trying to understand why 'Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme' runs on *uninstalling* my package, but not when installing it. Why could that happen?
23:39<Blendie>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.10.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso\
23:39<Blendie>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.10.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
23:39<RoadRunner>dvs: what does the new kernel offer?
23:39<Blendie>actually
23:39<Blendie>they changed it, they don't provide a cd image for every de anymore
23:39<Blendie>cds are deprecated
23:40<Passerby>https://cdimage.debian.org/images/release/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/
23:40<dvs>RoadRunner: exfat is one that comes to mind.
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23:40<Blendie>however, there still is an xfce install image
23:40*Passerby is most looking forward to WireGuard in the new kernel.
23:41<GenTooMan>is their a build script to automatically build an install ISO?
23:42<RoadRunner>Passerby: WireGuard for virtual server applications?
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23:43<Passerby>GenTooMan, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller
23:43<GenTooMan>that's Passerby
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23:50<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, the 10.10 i386 netinst images will let you choose what kind of DE you want to install
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23:51<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, to be safe, you might want to take the "non-free" version, to make sure you have all the firmware and drivers, etc, for your exact hardware.
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23:52<RoadRunner>my old comp only has 512MB of RAM, I guess I shouldn't try out live CD first since 2G are recomended
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23:52<Sqrt{not}>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.10.0+nonfree/i386/iso-cd/firmware-10.10.0-i386-netinst.iso
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23:54<Sqrt{not}>that is a small installer image, that will pull extra packages from the network, depending on what you ask it to install
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23:55<Sqrt{not}>(it is "non-free" in the sense that the various firmware things do not come with source code)
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23:57<zak>clear
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23:59<Sqrt{not}>GenTooMan, the stock install ISO's will have a menu which allow you to choose what you want to install from the network. The "DVD" versions include more packages on their DVD image, and don't need to pull so much (or maybe any) from the network
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 01 00:00:51 2021