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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-02

---Logopened Fri Jul 02 00:00:41 2021
---Daychanged Fri Jul 02 2021
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03:22<otisolsen70>I get this message every time I reboot my server: "systemd[1380]: Condition check resulted in Sound System being skipped." what does this mean? Why does this happen? This is something that started recently. I did not get this message a few months ago.
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03:24<ratrace>otisolsen70: means, probably, that a service unit named "Sound System" has a condition check for starting, the condition failed so systemd is not starting it. do you know which unit it is?
03:24<ratrace>maybe systemctl list-units | grep -i "sound system"
03:25<otisolsen70>ratrace, most is default debian buster. It is not something I created.
03:25<otisolsen70>ratrace, systemctl list-units | grep -i "sound system" produces no output
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03:29<ratrace>otisolsen70: ah.... it's user pulseaudio.socket
03:29<ratrace>ConditionUser=!root
03:30<ratrace>are you starting any GUI applications as root? so they touch the PA socket but it refuses to start because it's root?
03:30<otisolsen70>ratrace, this is something that happens every time I reboot the machine.
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03:30<otisolsen70>ratrace, not something that happens when I am logged in
03:31<otisolsen70>ratrace, and it seems to be something that started happening recently. Probably after updating some package.
03:31<ratrace>yes so something on boot, runs as root, and touches the PA socket. what DE are you running? maybe the DM is doing that
03:31<otisolsen70>DE?
03:31<ratrace>it's not an error in itself, btw. just informative message that PA refused to start in that context
03:31<ratrace>Desktop Environment
03:31<otisolsen70>There is no desktop env. on this. It is a server.
03:31<ratrace>well something installed pulseaudio
03:32<ratrace>apt-cache rdepends --installed pulsaudio
03:32<ratrace>apt-cache rdepends --installed pulseaudio
03:32<otisolsen70>ratrace, so this is something that happens just because PA is installed? I have several other debian machines, both servers and desktop machines and laptops. None other get this error on bootup. And some of these are actively using both DE and sound.
03:33<ratrace>this happens because PA is installed and somethign is trying to use its socket as ROOT
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03:33<otisolsen70>Reverse Depends: xpra pulseaudio-utils libpulse0 firefox-esr
03:33<ratrace>did you accidentally install gnome on your "server"? gnome is default in the installer
03:33<ratrace>so you have firefox-esr on your "server"
03:33<ratrace>and with that probably the whole desktop shebang
03:33<otisolsen70>ratrace, correct.
03:34<otisolsen70>ratrace, there should be no DE just because I have firefox
03:34<ratrace>true that. probably not even xorg-server (only xorg _client_)
03:34<otisolsen70>firefox Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libc6 (>= 2.28), libcairo-gobject2 (>= 1.10.0), libcairo2 (>= 1.10.0), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.9.14), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78), libevent-2.1-6 (>= 2.1.8-stable), libffi6 (>= 3.0.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.12.6), libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.31.8), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.0.0), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libstdc++6 (>= 6), libx11-6,
03:34<otisolsen70>libx11-xcb1, libxcb-shm0, libxcb1, libxcomposite1 (>= 1:0.3-1), libxdamage1 (>= 1:1.1), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxrender1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.11.dfsg), fontconfig, procps, debianutils (>= 1.16)
03:34<ratrace>so anyway there's your partial answer. now you ahve to figure out what is trying that PA socket as root
03:34<otisolsen70>OK. I guess I can just ignore that message then...
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03:35<ratrace>well yes and no. the message itself doesn't represent an error. but the fact that root is trying something with PA socket is definitely worth investigating
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03:38<otisolsen70>OK.
03:38<otisolsen70>I am not sure how to trace that down.
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03:41<NoGuest17>test
03:41<ratrace>Failed
03:41<NoGuest17>ahh the same guy
03:41<NoGuest17>you are not funny
03:41<NoGuest17>stop it
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03:42<ratrace>I'm not even a guy, let alone funny.... .)
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03:43<ratrace>otisolsen70: for starters, check the `ps axuf` output, see if there's any xorg apps or apps that might want sound, running as root
03:44<ratrace>otisolsen70: also you never confirmed that you installed, in fact, by deselecting desktop options
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04:09<UnoMas51>Good morning to all. I have a few boot errors on my system and was wondering if you could help me troubleshoot some of them. This is what I get from "journalctr -b -p 3" : https://pastebin.com/gHWiYzP4
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04:17<UnoMas51>I have read (here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=803265) that "purging all bluetooth and reinstalling fixed the problem". But I don't know how to purge "all bluetooth" without uninstalling gnome.
04:17<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/803265 in bluez (open): «bluetooth.service: sap-server: Operation not permitted (1)»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-10-28; last modified: 2021-03-14.
04:18<UnoMas51>Thanks judd, But I don't know how to purge "all bluetooth" without uninstalling gnome.
04:18<quadrat>UnoMas51 judd is a bot
04:18<UnoMas51>Ahh¡¡
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04:28<jhutchins>vincent-: So " official" is important why?
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04:29<vincent->jhutchins, well, if you need help, there are almost 1000 people in the official support channel. In the other one there were less than 700.
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04:39<jhutchins>vincent-: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
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04:53<otisolsen70>ratrace, ps faux: no xorg apps. However, not sure if there were some during bootup... Can be difficult to catch..
04:53<otisolsen70>ratrace, I installed by deselecting everything except ssh server in the tasksel options - I always do that for servers.
04:58<otisolsen70>ratrace, how do you know that it is something running as root that causes this to be skipped?
04:59<otisolsen70>ratrace, cannot see any references to root in the log
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05:00<ratrace>otisolsen70: because the user unit has that condition. it wouldn't log unless uid 0 tried to activate the socket, and systemd said "Nope, can't, ConditionUser=!root fails"
05:02<ratrace> /lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket btw
05:04<otisolsen70>ratrace, ahh!
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05:37<jmn_>Hello all (woaw... IRC is still in use... and it works...)
05:37<freem>Hi.
05:37<freem>well, depends on networks.
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05:41<jmn_>I'm looking for an advice: actualy, my Debian is installed on a Lenovo T460 and it's cool... but it's time to change. Which "newest" Lenovo laptop is the most used by the community with our favorite Libre OS
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05:42<koollman_>'most used' is probably not anything 'new'
05:42<jmn_>@kool11man: Yes, you're right.
05:43<jmn_>But the newest of the oldest...
05:44<Fraggle2>jmn_: I had the experience last year with my ideapad s145 that the hardware was quickly supported by testing. as bullseye becomes stable soon, you should probably look for something 0.5 to 1 years old
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05:46<Fraggle2>jmn_: even while lenovo explicitly said that linux was not supported...
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05:47<freem>is libgeoip's database still FOSS? I'm trying to read their EULA, but...
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05:51<freem>well, let's say that reading legal stuff is not my favorite activity, plus things like "From time to time, MaxMind will release an updated version of the GeoLite2 Databases, and you agree to promptly use the updated version of the GeoLite2 Databases. You shall cease use of and destroy (i) any old versions of the Services within thirty (30) days following the release of the updated GeoLite2 Databases; and (ii) all Services immediately upon termination
05:51<freem>of the license under this Agreement. Upon request, you shall provide MaxMind with written confirmation of such destruction." looks to me that it can't really be provided by debian
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05:51<freem>debian... or any tool embedding it
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05:53<freem>to be honest, I really don't understand how much a program using libgeoip can still be considered FOSS or what it means for someone hosting stuff depending on it
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05:55<petn-randall>freem: IIRC the country-level databases have a different license, or at least used to.
05:55<freem>for example, a game uses it to print things like "$player connected from $country" when someone joins. I was never fond of the idea, but outside of this, do having this enabled prevents it to being FOSS since it relies on libgeoip and it's DB?
05:57<petn-randall>freem: Those maxmind restrictions don't proliferate, so they wouldn't change the license of software.
05:58<petn-randall>freem: firefox is also FOSS, even though you're visiting heaps of non-free sites with it.
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05:58<freem>indeed, but firefox is a client, not a server
05:59<Unit193>"You can visit youtube? Nope, not a foss browser unless it disables that" :D
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06:00<ansgar>Unit193: The FSF might pick that idea up... :D
06:00<freem>Unit193: well, if DRM support is required, I'm not sure about how that works :)
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06:00<freem>anyway, a multiplayer game is usually not only the client side thing, but do contains the server-side
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06:01<Unit193>Eg, bind9 also allows one to use the geoip databases if one so desires, as does goaccess. To say they aren't foss simply because the allow the user to use some database is....very restrictive.
06:02<freem>true, and debian allows to install non-foss, too
06:02<freem>not by default though
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06:02<Unit193>The kernel allows you to load firmware (as long as you don't use the restricting linux-libre), sooo.
06:02<freem>indeed
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06:07<freem>well, according to https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/geoip debian does not ship the problematic ones. Now, they say they changed licences because of law changes in some countries, so I wonder how those things impact server hosters
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06:08<freem>IIUIC, debian still ship the "legacy geolite DB", and the one with the problematic licence is "geolite2 DB" so that's one thing
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06:19<luser>hello guys
06:19<luser>I was here yesterday asking for help and essentially had to quit for a short whiçe
06:19<luser>while*
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06:20<luser>so I was trying to get a window manager to install properly and I had some dependencies problems ended up using aptitude which removed my kernel image and my nvidia kernel mode drivers
06:20<luser>then I re-installed them
06:21<luser>now when I boot I can see grub with a nice looking background, yet at the bootloader I can see it says failed to load kernel mode drivers
06:21<luser>and no user interface after that
06:21<luser>I have a terminal login
06:21<grove>Which window manager? And
06:21<grove>!bat
06:21<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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06:22<luser>grove: I installed kde-full
06:22<luser>but I think my problem now is that probably nvidia drivers are not loaded
06:22<grove>That's a bit more than a window manager
06:23<luser>it has to be.... what other kernel mode drivers would fail to load
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06:23<luser>grove: sure, and so what?
06:24<grove>You said nvidia, so I'm out (fire is my preferred solution to all problems that involve nvidia
06:24<luser> Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Fri 2021-07-02 06:18:58 EDT; 5min ago
06:24<luser>that's what I get when I do : systemctl status systemd-modules-load.service
06:25<ratrace>luser: how did you install nvidia drivers?
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06:26<luser>apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 nvidia-driver
06:26<ratrace>okay, and what's the exact error you're getting?
06:26<luser>I am not sure why I chose to install from backports, maybe that is because that's how I had it installed before trying to get the WM to work
06:27<luser>It is really quick but I see this at bootloader
06:27<ratrace>nvidia driver from backports is preferred. 418 in stable is known for some stability issues
06:27<luser>[FAILED] Failed to start Load Kernel Modules
06:27<luser>See 'systemctl status systemd-modules-load.service' for details
06:27<ratrace>can you pastebin journalctl -u systemd-modules-load.service
06:27<luser>ratrace: but do I need to choose a specific kernel image at boot time then?
06:28<luser>sure
06:28<luser>https://0bin.net/paste/vJLf4u0c#MF70SQERtG6-JaDkVdICneE7LJvzhciswevfP6ZoPZB
06:29<ratrace>nvidia-driver pulls in dkms which builds for all the kernels. however, now that you mention it, if you installed both the kernel and nvidia in single step, that might be a problem for DKMS
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06:32<ratrace>luser: yeah that's it. try this dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms
06:32<ratrace>it should trigger the dkms rebuild and fix that problem
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06:33<luser>https://0bin.net/paste/0kSyrx28#qd+emXRNp-ehwh2+BroeRPB0Dqzp2E4RL6Lrcd+5hZ8
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06:33<luser>maybe I am on the bleeding edge kernel module?
06:34<luser>Linux kraken 5.10.0-0.bpo.7-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.40-1~bpo10+1 (2021-06-04) x86_64 GNU/Linux
06:34<luser>^uname -a
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06:34<ratrace>oh okay, install linux-headers-5.10...<what's the bpo packge from backports>
06:34<ratrace>luser: no, you were just missing the headers for the bpo kernel
06:35<luser>sudo apt-get install linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.7-amd64 ?
06:35<ratrace>that's the one
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06:36<luser>done
06:37<luser>sudo dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms
06:37<luser>?
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06:37<ratrace>yup
06:37<quadrat>i would rather install linux-headers-amd64 so it always gets updated to the latest
06:37<ratrace>quadrat: that doesn't seem to work with backports
06:37<quadrat>it should
06:37<luser>sudo reboot?
06:37<ratrace>quadrat: not in my experience
06:37<ratrace>luser: yea, if the DKSM build is done
06:37<luser>yep
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06:38<quadrat>,v linux-headers-amd64
06:38<judd>Package: linux-headers-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u12; buster-backports: 5.10.40-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.40-1; sid: 5.10.46-1
06:38<quadrat>it worked always for me
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06:39<quadrat>and as the package is in backports, no idea why it wouldn't work
06:39<ratrace>luser: do you already have linux-headers-amd64 metapackage installed?
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06:39<ratrace>iirc the part that doesn't work is that if you install backported kernel, it'll automagically install backported headers
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06:45<ratrace>judd: fixed?
06:45<ratrace>luser: fixed? (tabfail lol)
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06:47<luser>ratrace: when i reboot it seems that such problem with failed loaded modules no longer appears but now it is stuck at load time. It is probably showing some message but it is being cut by the monitor frame
06:47<luser>so it seems like it is rendering an image larger than that of the monitor
06:47<ratrace>luser: if you have "quiet" in your kernel command line options, you can remove it via grub menu (e)dit, to see more info
06:47<luser>k
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06:51<ratrace>luser: btw, so I don't forget, quadrat's advice is sound, check that you have linux-header-amd64 installed from _backports_ (if not, upgrade it to backports version), so it can track and pull in new headers as the bpo upgrads in the future
06:51<ratrace>(write it down so when you get to it, make sure that's the case)
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06:54<luser>allright thanks
06:54<luser>but the boot screen still stops
06:55<luser>it fails to load some rtl_nic firmware bs
06:55<luser>I can take a picture perhaps
06:55<luser>unless it writes that log to some file I can cat via ssh and pastebin somewhere
06:55<luser>that would be great
06:55<quadrat>hm, on some rtl firmware, boot shouldn't get stuck oO
06:56<ratrace>I don't think that would prevent boot, unless it prevents network setup which in turn hogs a boot start job
06:56<luser>I can take a picture. But can I cat this log from some file?
06:56<ratrace>luser: those are all available from the journal later, and if filesystems are in place, by default forwarded to syslog
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06:57<luser>ratrace: can you give me the cmd somehow? yes I know spoonfeeding....
06:57<ratrace>luser: btw, what kind of system is that? discrete nvidia gpu, or you have one of those transformers whatsits name optimus something something laptop?
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06:58<ratrace>luser: once you boot, dmesg | grep -i firmware to see which file is missing, then you can use apt-file on that file to find the package, but in case of rtl, probably `firmware-realtek` from non-free
06:58<luser>ratrace: BTC mining motherboard from Biostar with 4 GPUs installed : 3xrtx 3090, 1x rtx 3070
06:59<ratrace>oh shoot, you're one of "them" people. I no longer wish to support your hogging gpus so us gamers can't buy any, and the prices are then tenfold. bai. :)
07:00<luser>ratrace: except I don't mine
07:00<luser>I am working on a scientific project that requires a lot of computational effort
07:00<luser>so I am experimenting a bit locally first, with underclocking and so on
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07:01<ratrace>welp, I don't have experience with multiple GPUs on the same system, unless we're talking about two, and one of them is PCI passthru'd to a VM
07:01<ratrace>so I don't know if _that_ would cause boot issues...
07:01<quadrat>i guess let's first see the newest error
07:02<ratrace>and by multiple I mean multiple active and on the PCI lanes for the driver to use
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07:02<luser>ratrace: before I had it working perfectly well, it was only when I decided to add the window manager and xserver that things went to shit....
07:02<ratrace>luser: okay so maybe the "window manager", which is a full blown KDE desktop if I was paying attention earlier, got the login manager on boot and that one hogs for some reason
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07:03<ratrace>luser: you can force boot into "text mode", aka multi-user.target and inspect things from cli, including why the DM is failing, if it's failing.
07:03<ratrace>systemd.unit=multi-user.target on the kernel command line via grub (e)dit
07:03<luser>ratrace: I can ssh into the machine
07:03<ratrace>or... that.
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07:04<luser>https://0bin.net/paste/goR9D7Nf#x4EZbVDUqfogKLUDMEYhn7Bzq8UruK45S-MKwKxWC0B
07:04<ratrace>so... you have the commands dmesg | grep -i firmware to find the firmware missing, install the required packages; journalctl -p err --no-pager to see all error severity messages, that will likely have the DM problems _if_ they exist
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07:05<ratrace>,file rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw
07:05<jm_>does KDE in buster also use wayland? maybe try something that doesn't first
07:05<judd>Search for rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw in buster/amd64: firmware-realtek: lib/firmware/rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw
07:05<quadrat>jm_ no x
07:05<ratrace>jm_: it shouldn't/wouldn't with proprietary nvidia.
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07:05<ratrace>like, wouldn't even try a wayland session to begin with.
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07:06<jm_>ratrace: yeah but with gnome one has to manually tell it to use x11 no?
07:06<ratrace>jm_: iirc no, default session is xorg, if the proprietary driver is in use
07:07<luser>isn't this firmware for network interface?
07:07<ratrace>or in other words, gnome and GDM would work and start normally, by default, on a system with nvidia-driver. on a system with intel and maybe amdgpu, it'd default to wayland, afaik
07:07<ratrace>luser: it is
07:07<luser>how can It be missing if I can ssh in?
07:07<luser>>_>
07:07<ratrace>because it's working even without the firmware, but it's missing firmware for advanced features
07:07<luser>allright
07:07<ratrace>realteks would do that
07:07<luser>I shall install that
07:10<luser>so that should be firmware-realtek, am I correct here?
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07:10<ratrace>yes
07:11<luser>and I have the non-free repos
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07:11<luser>sudo apt-get install firmware-realtek
07:11<luser>I assume I don't have to use backports here...
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07:12<quadrat>no
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07:12<luser>reboot then
07:12<ratrace>why
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07:14<luser>that error is gone but it still halts during installation, but I the real culprit is not printed
07:14<luser>but I think*
07:14<ratrace>installation?
07:14<luser>during boot time sorry
07:15<ratrace>well then check further for errors journalctl -p err --no-pager for example
07:15<jm_>maybe if you wait long enough it will say something more useful
07:16<luser>jm_: ok
07:16<ratrace>if you can ssh in that means the boot process got far enough to start the networking and ssh.service
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07:17<ratrace>by installing KDE, it made sddm.service (I think that's the name) start on boot which will trigger xorg start which takes over tty1 if I'm not mistaken, so it halting the boot messages means the process continued as expected
07:18<ratrace>if that is the case, now you have to figure out if there's a problem with xorg, and I'd expect there is if there's multiple GPUs, maybe it's confused about which one to use; but that would be visible from errors pertaining to the sddm.service, and/or /var/log/Xorg.0.log
07:19<Guest1270>hi, how do I join another channel, it tells me "-NickServ- To set +R, your nick must be registered and verified"
07:19<ratrace>so, check the journal for general errors, check sddm service for errors, teh xorg log, and also dmesg maybe there's actually a problem with the module(s)
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07:23<luser>ratrace: I am going to stay fuck it, and re-install everything from scratch with X and a window manager
07:23<luser>a retarded one such as gnome
07:25<ratrace>and you think you won't have the same issues?
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07:27<luser>yeah
07:28<ratrace>how, if you don't know what the issue is here. perhaps it's unrelated to kde, and you'll have the same with gnome
07:28<ratrace>before = worked = no xorg; now = doesn't work = xorg and kde
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07:32<quadrat>so can we assume, that no errors happen in X?
07:33<ratrace>we can't?
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07:34<ratrace>I mean I wrote above the three relatively simple steps to check general errors, sddm specific errors, xorg specific errors
07:37<quadrat>ratrace yeah, that question was rather pointed at luser
07:37<quadrat>as we never saw logs
07:37<ratrace>right...
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07:43<Fraggle2>ratrace, quadrat: are you sure that installs from bpo get udateted automatically? I always thought I had to deal with pinning to reach that goal.
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07:45<quadrat>Fraggle2 yes those get updated automatically
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07:45<Fraggle2>OK, great.
07:45<quadrat>you don't have to use pins when using backports
07:45<Fraggle2>thought you had to track backports
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07:46<quadrat>when for example using linux-image-amd64, it tracks backports, so you won't get any updates from normal buster repos (that's why you don't get any 4.19 kernels anymore)
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07:50<Fraggle2>aaah... I mixed it up with sid.
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08:03<grove>`flatpak run org.mozilla.firefox` starts a browser in a sandbox, but if I execute it again, it just gives another browser window in the same sandbox. Is it possible to get two browsers rnning in two seperate sandboxes?
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08:05<grove>(I installed flatpak from the main buster repo, I see that a newer version is available in buster-backports, will that help?)
08:05<quadrat>grove nope, sadly thats a feature I also look for
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08:16<luser2>hello
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08:16<luser2>its me again
08:16<luser2>I re-installed debian, this time choosing X and gnome and it works
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08:39<luser2>me again..........I have a graphical user interface
08:39<luser2>but after following https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
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08:40<luser2>I added this to my sources.list : deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib non-free
08:40<luser2>and did : apt install -t buster-backports nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree
08:40<luser2>as per explained
08:40<luser2>then when I reboot, I get this:
08:40-!-StarOnD [~StarOnD@2401:4900:40f1:f1ec:cf1b:5c4d:e2e7:8249] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:40<luser2>https://0bin.net/paste/kfHMuBTR#ceEg6Nx2mD37Ps-K/aUccnse6Ng6z/hmq2YX1jMHuv5
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08:41<luser2>so pointers are appreciated
08:41<luser2>brb lunch
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08:42<quadrat>luser2 did you make sure the modules were compiled for the correct kernel?
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08:51<azahi>I want to package a deb with some tar.gz in it that I need to unpack during preinst. How to approach this? There will this tar.gz file be in relation to preinst script?
08:51<azahi>s/There/Where/
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08:59<azahi>Basically, how to access files shipped with the deb package using a preinst script?
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09:00<grawity>isn't the entire point of preinst scripts that they're run *before* anything else from the package is unpacked?
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09:12<azahi>grawity: The thing is that I don't need that tar in the end, I only need it's contents. I guess I have no other choice but to install the tar file as usual and then extract it in postinst. Will apt freak out if I will delete that file in postinst?
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09:39<Fraggle2>why not extracting the content before creating the deb file?
09:40<luser>quadrat: I simply did what is written in the article
09:41<luser>should I do : apt install -t buster-backports linux-headers-amd64 ?
09:41<ratrace>luser: I thought you installed realtek-firmware?
09:41<luser>ratrace: I formatted the machine
09:41<luser>clean slate with X and gnome installed
09:42<luser>now I am trying to install the nvidia drivers
09:42<luser>it's always a bit tricky this part, I had similar issues before but don't really remember the solution
09:42<ratrace>luser: don't install the kernel and nvidia-driver at the same time in single step
09:42<quadrat>luser so yes, linux-headers-amd64 has to be installed (as it's written on the wiki)
09:42<ratrace>that's all. DKMS gets confused, doesn't order itself properly and may not build itself for newly installed kernel
09:43<luser>ok, but I don't need to install headers from backports?
09:44<quadrat>did you install the kernel from backports?
09:44<luser>nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree <- these were installed from backports as per wiki
09:44<ratrace>you do if you install the kernel from backports.
09:44<luser>nope
09:44<luser>only those 2 packages
09:44<ratrace>but, unlike my previous suggestion to install versioned headers directly, install linux-headers-amd64 -t buster-backports so the meta keeps on pulling headers for backports
09:45<quadrat>ratrace he didn't install the kernel from backports
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09:45<ratrace>yes, then no headers from backports. we were typing atop of each other :)
09:46<ratrace>I haz 7s lag. *kicks Cogent*
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09:47<luser3>hello world from basement pc
09:47<ratrace>how many lusers are here .... :)
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09:47<luser3>so I need to do now the dkms configure thingy
09:48<luser>dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms
09:48<ratrace>dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms .. but you don't need that in normal apt installation.
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09:50<luser3>https://0bin.net/paste/f+ADQHXC#5GRXg1fT-D1wGsXNUhFsYZ4jmL5fpBpncRLp2RUx1HB
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09:50<luser3>curious....
09:50<ratrace>so you didn't install linux-headers-am64 metapackage.
09:51<ratrace>you always need the headers metapackage for DKMS. question was only if you needed the backports one, and the answer was ONLY if the kernel too was from backports.
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09:51<luser3>E: Unable to locate package linux-headers-am64
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09:52<quadrat>amd64 not am64
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09:52<ratrace>well I typod and you copypasted my typo .... coulda been rmrfnopreserverootetc....
09:52<luser3>LOOOOOL
09:52<luser3>ffs
09:52<luser3>linux-headers-amd64 is already the newest version (5.10.40-1~bpo10+1).
09:52<ratrace>so you asked if you needed those _after_ you installed it? :)
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09:53<luser3>seems like it is the wrong version
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09:53<ratrace>apt purge linux-headers-amd64 ; apt install linux-headers-amd64 (note no -t buster-backports in the second one)
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09:53<quadrat>yeah you installed the backports version
09:53<quadrat>you need the ones from buster
09:54<luser3>I sware to god I only went with backports on those two packages...
09:54<luser3>ok ill try it
09:54<luser3>purge...and then install
09:55<luser3>now I am running the DKMS config thing again
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09:58<luser3>back after reboot... everything seemed to go smoothly
09:58<luser3>I have higher resolution now
09:58<luser3>so ... it seems like it is fixed
09:58<luser3>so thank you all
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09:59<ratrace>!next
09:59<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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10:00<luser3>https://0bin.net/paste/kv-Z6yNN#eyJwbcWsSEQew1tLiu0Cm1C37InwKeZNDYQ+kxir13S
10:00<luser3>nice
10:00<luser3>thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:00<luser3>and I can promise this has nothing to do with mining
10:01<ratrace>uh-huh. :)
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10:01<luser3>gpu computation power can be harvested for things other than mining
10:02<ratrace>I'll trade ya one 3070 for amd rx 6700 xt :)
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10:02<quadrat>still unhappy?
10:03<ratrace>it left a bad taste in my mouth
10:03<luser3>LOL
10:03<ratrace>and the glitches are still there, albeit far less intrusive
10:03<luser3>hey thank you for the offer but this is already tricky enough to get working with only nvidia stuff... let alone mixed gpus
10:03<luser3>I imagine the nightmare
10:04-!-Horizon [~HoriTheHO@176.41.31.31] has joined #debian
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10:04<ratrace>luser3: took me 3 weeks and software on the edge so bleeding, I had to bring in mobile transfusion units... :)
10:04<luser3>different kernelmode graphics drivers competing fucking each other in the ass
10:04<ratrace>(but in defense of amd, it _is_ a 3 month "young" gpu)
10:04-!-Horizon is now known as Guest1278
10:05<luser3>ratrace: LOL
10:05-!-Guest1278 is now known as Horizon__
10:05<Horizon__>hi guys
10:05<ratrace>I'm literally running on MASTER commits of linux kernel, firmware and mesa :)
10:05<luser3>but you were using ONLY amd gpus, right?
10:05<ratrace>luser3: I used nvidias for 20 years until I decided to switch to amdgpu
10:05<luser3>ratrace: damn........
10:05<luser3>ratrace: probably a good call
10:06<ratrace>meh, it'll all work fine eventually.
10:06<luser3>I have better price here on nvidia gpu
10:06<Horizon__>whats up
10:06<ratrace>luser3: well that's thing, I got the 3060ti class admgpu for half the price of nvidia
10:07<luser3>ratrace: I get them second hand :/ what are you doing with your gpus?
10:07<ratrace>gaming
10:07<ratrace>well.. and working. I got a big badass server/workstaation for all my work and gaming needs.
10:07<luser3>you can play games with these? noice, maybe I should give that a try sometime
10:07<luser3>(LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL)
10:09<quadrat>luser3 btw, why do you need a gui for that server?
10:10<luser3>the nvidia cmd line application requires X
10:10<luser3>>_>
10:10<luser3>retarded plus plus here
10:10<quadrat>wth never heard of that
10:10<luser3>but it inf act does if you want to underclock
10:10<Horizon__>i found a public ip in here and now im try to hack :D lol
10:11<Horizon__>:D
10:11<quadrat>Horizon__ hf with the police?
10:11<luser3>Horizon__: which one?
10:11<Horizon__>what?
10:11<ratrace>internet poh leece notified!
10:11<Horizon__>umm
10:11<Horizon__>lol
10:12<ratrace>luser3: in that case, technically, you just need xorg-server. or you can put some lightweight WM (you did say WM initially, but KDE and GNOME are huge bloatbaloons of little nightmares)
10:12<Horizon__>owhhh shit
10:12<Horizon__>its a trap
10:12<Horizon__>whuff
10:13<ratrace>partyvan parked in front of your home
10:13<luser3>Horizon__: if you need ze password cracking I have ze machine here with ze computer power
10:13<Horizon__>i detected it
10:13<ratrace>anyhoo:
10:13<ratrace>!chat
10:13<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
10:13<Horizon__>no man its a trap
10:13<luser3>ratrace: party pooper >_>
10:13<ratrace>that's what admiral ackbar said
10:13<vv222[BI]>15:12 <azahi> (…) Will apt freak out if I will delete that file in postinst?
10:13<Horizon__>ip is : 193.32.127.215
10:13<vv222[BI]>As far as I know, apt is OK with that.
10:14<Horizon__>can you guys check it?
10:14<Horizon__>193.32.127.215
10:14<Horizon__>i nmap'ed
10:14<Horizon__>so much iformation in there
10:14<Horizon__>and windows 7
10:14<Horizon__>umm so much port open
10:14<Horizon__>but i think its a trap
10:14<Horizon__>idk
10:14<luser3>lol
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10:14<ratrace>Horizon__: if you don't have a debian support question, there's a bunch of haxxor cahnnels you can join instead
10:15<Horizon__>dude i know but
10:15<Horizon__>just attention for 2 min
10:15<luser3>Horizon__: it could be your own server trying to get me to give you my own ip
10:15<Horizon__>yes i know but
10:15<Horizon__>im found it in ban list
10:15<Horizon__>go check
10:16<ratrace>Horizon__: gooby pls
10:16<Horizon__>window / banlist
10:16<luser3>just paste your name scan result in 0bin.net and send me the link
10:16<Horizon__>ok i pm
10:16<luser3>nmap*
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10:50<luser3>apt install nvidia-cuda-dev nvidia-cuda-toolkit
10:50<luser3>I am doing it for the cuda cores
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10:51<pedro_>does anyone knows if emule runs on android?
10:52<luser3>nao me digas que o emule e o client p2p...
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10:53<pedro_>o p2p emule voltou
10:53<pedro_>e funciona bem
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10:54<ratrace>Em inglês por favor.
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11:02<luser>ratrace: how to I install nvclock in debian?
11:03<ratrace>I don't know what that is
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11:04<sussudio>i think it's a thing to adjust nvidia videocard clock speeds.
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11:04<luser>yes yes sir
11:05<sussudio>,nvidia-settings
11:06<sussudio>maybe that one. the description isn't very useful.
11:06<luser>good point
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11:07<Fraggle2>luser: I thik nvclock is outdated and has left debian since years
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11:07<Fraggle2>see https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nvclock and http://www.linuxhardware.org/nvclock/
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11:09<luser>yeah thats the one
11:09<luser>nvidia-settings is the tool~
11:09<Fraggle2>you should really use nvidia-settings instead.
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11:14<mendel_munkis>is there any way to get the DF result of an offline drive?
11:14<mendel_munkis>s/drive/filesystem/
11:15<ratrace>maybe it depends on the filesystem and whether you can extract that info from its metadata
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11:17<mendel_munkis>thanks
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11:27<luser>how do I make linux not come up with new retarded random names for network interfaces?
11:27<luser>enp4s13370
11:27<luser>crap like this~
11:27<luser>so I want eth0
11:28<petn-randall>luser: Do you know why it was changed though?
11:28<luser>no idea
11:28<luser>hardware changes I guess
11:28<petn-randall>luser: because eth0 could mean any type of Ethernet device on your machine.
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11:28<ansgar>luser: Is installing a 15 year old Linux version an option? :)
11:29<luser>no
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11:29<quadrat>ansgar oO you don't even have to do that
11:29<luser>there is a flag you can pass to the bootloader
11:29<luser>I just can't recall
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11:29<jason1237>hello
11:30<luser>net.ifnames=1 was it??
11:30<jason1237>is it possible to run boot-live without the initrd.img.gz ?? just vmlinuz?
11:30<petn-randall>luser: You can create udev rules to assign it a name of your choosing.
11:30<petn-randall>jason1237: Sure, but then it doesn't boot. What goal are you trying to achieve?
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11:31<jason1237>a live
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11:31<ansgar>petn-randall: Or just a man:systemd.link(5). I find those more readable.
11:31<jason1237>booted from a bsd partition. thus, I need to boot-live without initrd.img.gz
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11:32<quadrat>ansgar that doesn't work, as debian uses ifupdown or network manager, so no systemd-network
11:32<jason1237>petn-randall: you have some exp with bsd and boot-live debian? likely not?
11:32<ansgar>quadrat: That is unrelated to systemd-networkd.
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11:32<petn-randall>jason1237: I fail to see a connection between the two. Again, what's your goal here?
11:32<jason1237>quadrat: debian uses the systemd networking. add mask, that's all
11:33<jason1237>quadrat: ifupdown is prehistoric age, no one likely will use that in next years.
11:33<imMute>jason1237: debian *can* use networkd. the base install doesn't by default though..
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11:33<jason1237>with mamouths
11:33<imMute>jason1237: the default for debian is either ifupdown or networkmanager (depending on if there's a GUI installed or not)
11:34<luser>petn-randall: I an editing /etc/default/grub
11:34<luser>and added the option net.ifnames=0 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
11:34<jason1237>petn-randall: I need to boot live, so it needs initrd.img.gz but boot-live has NO BSD support for looking into bsd partitions.
11:34<luser>do I need to run some command to reconfigure grub after this?
11:34<jason1237>petn-randall: there wont be any, because boot-live just do xfs, and ext234
11:34<luser>(before reboot)
11:34<petn-randall>jason1237: What do you mean with "boot live"? Are you trying to boot Debian live?
11:35<jason1237>petn-randall: yes. surely.
11:35<quadrat>luser update-grub
11:35<luser>quadrat: TNX
11:35<jason1237>petn-randall: into the init bash script of boot-live, it looks only for linux partitions
11:35<petn-randall>jason1237: ... so you've got the live image on a USB drive, and you're booting from it?
11:35<jason1237>i run grub2
11:36<petn-randall>!goal
11:36<dpkg>Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is.
11:37<jason1237>petn-randall: i want to boot live debian from a bsd partition 1 with grub2 on part1, but linux debian is not supporintg UFS /FFS at all for boot live
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11:37<jason1237>you cannnot store the squashfs onto the bsd partition.
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11:38<jason1237>do you still follow up ?
11:38<petn-randall>jason1237: That's because Debian live is built to boot from USB drives, and not much more. You're probably better off just installing Debian directly.
11:38<jason1237>the squashfs is the rootfs man
11:39<jason1237>petn-randall: well, it can boot from bsd partitiion
11:39<petn-randall>jason1237: yes, grub can. Wherever you got that from (not from Debian live).
11:39<jason1237>does anyone deal with that? have some clues about appending the code to search into the ffs type 2 partition?
11:40<jason1237>petn-randall: seems you dont know how boot live works.
11:40<petn-randall>jason1237: ... so your goal is to get Debian running on your machine? Why not just install?
11:40<jason1237>petn-randall: the init bash scripts are located into initrd.img. the bash is launched at boot, man.
11:41<petn-randall>jason1237: Your issue would be a lot clearer if you'd describe your goal, not what hoops you'd like to jump through to get some specific setup to run.
11:41<jason1237>petn-randall: I have my disk with BSD already. i want just debian for time to time for VOIP with microsoft team. i dont need linux at all, only for that
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11:41<petn-randall>jason1237: Then just put your Debian live on a pen drive and be done with it?
11:42<jason1237>petn-randall: I know it is quite technical and advanced.. is ther a channel debian for advanced pro talks here?
11:42<petn-randall>jason1237: You'd have to regenerate the initrd to ship the modules to read from BSD partitions, but you're using live, so there aren't the tools to do that, so ....
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11:42<jason1237>petn-randall: I tried to modified the bash to do search using mount with ufs type2, but I am tired to look and to fix all your code.
11:42<petn-randall>jason1237: It's not really advanced, just quite convoluted.
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11:43<petn-randall>jason1237: Sounds like you really know what you're talking about. I'll let you be then. Good luck!
11:43<jason1237>petn-randall: well it takes only 2 min to add mount onto the init boot live script, from the one that made that code to happen
11:43<jason1237>can we know who deal with that area of code?
11:44<petn-randall>jason1237: Again, you're forcing "Debian live", which is not designed to do this, to do something that a regular Debian installation would easily do. So if you really want to force that square peg through the round hole, you're free to do so.
11:45<jason1237>petn-randall: pff. i am tired to look at all this bash code
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11:45*petn-randall shrugs.
11:46<jason1237>i guess it would be more profitable to append my idea to the loop into boot script. it is just : for each in ... with ext2 ext3 ... xfs and vfat.
11:47<luser>by any chance anyone used nvidia-settings?
11:47<luser>I am reading through the man
11:48<jason1237>ryzen here, vulkan
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11:53<petn-randall>luser: Probably many people, just ask your question.
11:53<petn-randall>!ask
11:53<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
11:55<luser>allright: how can I list current clock profiles for each GPU
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11:59<luser>also if I want to use the tool over ssh?
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12:02<seba>luser, apt install nvtop might help you there
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12:03<SyncN>Hello
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12:04<cyniccyber>hi
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12:34<sychill>has wiki.debian.org started blocking Tor now?
12:40<luser>sychill: that would be pretty gay
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12:41<sychill>,v ocrdjvu
12:41<judd>No package named 'ocrdjvu' was found in amd64.
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12:41<petn-randall>luser: Using "gay" as an insult is in itself quite cringy, and shouldn't be used here as such.
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12:43<sychill>,v ocrodjvu
12:43<judd>Package: ocrodjvu on amd64 -- jessie: 0.7.18-1; stretch: 0.10.1-1; buster: 0.10.4-1
12:43<sychill>not bullseye?
12:43<luser>petn-randall: I use it as a mockery for over-concern about trivial things, is that wrong?
12:44<quadrat>sychill https://bugs.debian.org/945183
12:44<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/945183 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: ocrodjvu -- RoQA; orphaned; python2-only»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-11-20; last modified: 2019-12-21.
12:44<luser>I never really though a lot about it, but I guess if people are offended I just drop it
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12:48<sychill>quadrat: thanks for the link. I don't quite understand what happened. Did the maintainer decide to quit? what does it mean to be orphaned in this context?
12:50<quadrat>sychill afaik it was abandoned because it's still dependant on python2 which is eol
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12:52<petn-randall>luser: Yes, that would be great, thanks.
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12:53<luser>btw I was able to run nvidia-settings over ssh
12:53<luser>all you need is X forwarding
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12:54<Sqrt{not}>sychill, what quadrat said, but also the submitter of the bug is the only listed maintainer at packages.debian.org, so also what you said.
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12:57<sychill>shit, that sucks. There is a lot of pressure to upgrade to Bullseye because Tor project is forcing onion v3 on everyone. But every distro upgrade comes with lost tools like this, something ppl don't realise when they impose upgrades
12:58<Sqrt{not}>I blame python for this one
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12:59<jason1237>Sqrt{not}: why?
12:59<luser>python sux
12:59<quadrat>jason1237 probably because of the breakage between 2 and 3
12:59<jason1237>luser: why? everyone moves and uses python in sciences
12:59<luser>I coded a massive project in python2 and I regret it deeply
13:00<petn-randall>sychill: There are plenty of way to run a newer tor daemon without upgrading your whole system. Using a testing/sid chroot is one of them.
13:00<jason1237>lsuwhy?
13:00<sychill>i'm in so many situations where people say "upgrade your shit".. they never know the downsides of upgrading
13:00<Sqrt{not}>jason1237, because apparently a program written for python 2 cannot work in python 3. this is just stupid
13:00<luser>jason1237: the fact that it is weakly typed makes the code unintelligeble , there are no types to inspect classes, structs, etc...
13:01<sychill>petn-randall: yeah, i should learn to use docker one day and just keep a bleading edge container around.. as well a container for all the old stuff I have on life support
13:01<petn-randall>Python2 has been deprecated for 7 years now, and was dropped last year. I feel people had enough time to move on.
13:01<luser>not to mention the fact that packages can get deprecated and then you have to download packages manually and install them
13:01<luser>some won't work...
13:01<Sqrt{not}>AFAIK, a perl program written in the days of version 2, will still work today, no?
13:02<jason1237>petn-randall: well all sciences do then wrong? they moved massively to python only
13:02<petn-randall>jason1237: I don't understand what you're trying to say. Can you rephrase?
13:03<sychill>athough tor has such a central role with networking, it's not like an app that you can just stick in a box
13:03<jason1237>petn-randall: too lazy
13:03<luser>basically I understand the project well because I coded it, but wtf do you think when you see code like: a.foo.bar = tits.cherone.bar
13:03<amacater>jason1237: Anybody who has needed to has had 7 years warning. Code should be in Python 3
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13:03<amacater>Yes, incompatibility sucks - but 7 years is a long time to know in advance
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13:04<jason1237>amacater: like linux kernel dropping all good x32 and older archs
13:04<jason1237>amacater: the GNU universe just dont care about their users.
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13:05<quadrat>oO x32 was dropped because nobody used it, not because it's old
13:05<jason1237>come on
13:05<luser>jason1237: if we are talking about python2 not being available in debian... yes I agree it is retarded
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13:06<amacater>No, it's not retarded, it's because it has 0 / zilch / zip security support and no one available to fix it.
13:06<jason1237>the linux kernel is the same image as python 2,3... it is related how dirty is the source code.
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13:07<petn-randall>jason1237: Do you mean the x32 ABI or 32 bit x86 support? Because both are still supported by Linux and by Debian.
13:07<amacater>Debian tends to drop stuff later than anyone else - if you can't maintain it, it has to go - we're all volunteers.
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13:07<jason1237>pentiums nope too old
13:08<Sqrt{not}>jason1237, I have run bullseye on a pentium III
13:08<petn-randall>Yes, you can also not run Linux on 80286.
13:08<jason1237>amacater: you certainly wont fork linux kernel to maek it support older machine
13:09<Sqrt{not}>jason1237, I have run bullseye on a pentium III without any modification, both live system, and installed.
13:09<amacater>jason1237: So - fork Linux kernel to make it support older ... how much older? Every fork is going to take maintenance
13:09<amacater>Can you get hold of the hardware?
13:09<quadrat>jason1237 just as a sidenote, you are talking about x86 not x32, which is a totally different thing
13:09<jason1237>Sqrt{not}: and on pentium I ? my 220CS toshinba is no longer supported by linux kernel
13:10<amacater>Yes, Debian made a conscious decision a while back to drop older than 686 compatible
13:10<Sqrt{not}>jason1237, yes, I feel your pain -- my old 486 also no longer supported
13:10<jason1237>amacater: so why linux does that to their users? this cannot be accepted. likely, like python stuffs above
13:11<amacater>So - if you have a 486 and want to run it as a proof of concept - run it on an old kernel disconnected from the internet.
13:11<sychill>i recently heard about someone using a 286 for some kind of server.. I assumed it was linux, but in any case I was impressed
13:11<jason1237>linux wont run on 16 MB
13:11<amacater>jason1237 - Have you tried running a 50 year old car and asking your local dealer for spare parts.
13:11<Sqrt{not}>yes, exactly what amacater said: my 486 has a working 2.0.30 kernel, and is not allowed on the internet
13:11<jason1237>I ran Linux on PSION 5MX 32bit, sarge actually, but a shame of linux want to dump all our junk machines
13:12<jason1237>*mb
13:12<amacater>jason1237: Linux will run on 4MB RAM installed from floppies - but it will be an old version
13:13<jason1237>linus maybe just dont even care about the kernel, he wants maybe to drive a nice BMW, making it linux becoming a corporate business thing, without caring about users. like does windows
13:13<blast007>sychill: if you're talking about the "Installing Linux into a 286 laptop from the year 1989" article, they put a Raspberry Pi in the system and that was running Linux, not the actual 286 CPU.
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13:16<amacater>At some point, go and look on the debian-devel mailing list or the discussions round release architectures. It's tough, but stuff has to be maintained. There's a _reason_ that DEC Alpha is supported as a best endeavours Debian port and not as a mainstream release now ...
13:16<Sqrt{not}>jason1237, exactly like the python problem with the ocrodjvu program --- the VOLUNTEER maintainer of that progam decided to retire. Until some other VOLUNTEER offers to take over, then that is abandoned.
13:16<amacater>Likewise Sparc
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13:18<sychill>blast007: it was just someone in Mastodon who said they were using their 286 as a server
13:19<sney>people using really esoteric or obsolete hardware are more likely to be running netbsd than linux, usually
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13:20<sychill>it was someone who was very pro-environment, who tries to make use of old hardware instead of tossing it
13:20<amacater>You can't actually run Linux on a 286 - there was a port called ELKS designed to run on something lower - MWC Coherent would run on a 286, I think, as would Microsoft Xenix but they're not Linux
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13:21<amacater>sychill: Pro environment is relative: running a 286 or 386 and a CRT monitor is less planet friendly than a modern laptop, maybe.
13:21<sney>I also have a hard time getting rid of any old hardware that still works
13:21<petn-randall>jason1237: You're making quite bold assumptions about motivations of people, assuming they act in bad faith. While in fact the problem is the lack of maintainers for such machines, that's all.
13:21<sney>luckily (perhaps), it all does die eventually. Else I'd probably still be running that sun ultra 2 as a fileserver
13:22<sychill>amacater: i'd say it depends if it's winter or not.. the heat energy isn't wasted if the CRT runs in the winter.
13:22<jason1237>petn-randall: maybe yeah
13:22<petn-randall>jason1237: And quite frankly, if you still want to run a 30+ year old machine on production, you're probably better off buying a $10 SBC as that already has vastly more computing power.
13:23<jason1237>petn-randall: to type with ssh and Xvesa, that works fine. just give me a kernel ;)
13:23<sychill>btw, people in my village just throw CRTs into the landfill b/c there is no proper disposal option in the area, so when the tubes implode there's lead dust everywhere, which could get into ground water
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13:23<jason1237>is there lead into the TFT of 486 old notebooks?
13:24<amacater>There's space for some of this stuff in computer museums - or as background props in the IT Crowd - but not necessarily for daily use. The 10 year old laptop with a failed display is actually so much junk now ...
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13:24<petn-randall>Probably. The 90s had at least lead in the solder.
13:25<jason1237>really? man... the Sn + Pb you mean then into all electricals. (soldering)
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13:25<quadrat>amacater I wouldn't say 10 years, but probably 20. I use a laptop which is 12 yrs old for my homelab, as a gitlab server
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13:25<sychill>i thought lead solder was the norm.. what is then?
13:26<sychill>i mean, what is it now?
13:26<jason1237>petn-randall: Romans did that crap. they use Pb to make their pipes for water
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13:26<petn-randall>jason1237: In EU, lead was only forbidden in solders since 2006. So before that they likely still had lead in it because it's cheaper.
13:26<amacater>I've got one 10 year old laptop with dead display - it's nto worth fixing. I've another with dodgy hinges which still works well with an external display. There comes a point when it's not feasible to fix.
13:26<jason1237>petn-randall: thank you very much. I never heard of that anytime
13:26<sney>lead-free solder has been required in mass production for a while now, but the leaded stuff is easier to work with, so you still see it in diy repair kits
13:27<amacater>Lead has lower melting point than other alloys: newer alloys are much higher temperature
13:27<jason1237>Pb + Sn will decrease the melting point
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13:27<amacater>Lead's not the real problem - there's also antimony in the flux which can cause breathing difficulties
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13:28<sychill>so can circuit boards free of lead solder be safely tossed into the landfill?
13:28<jason1237>By adding two eleements of that kind, you can only decrease it, making it easier to weld and cheap. all is money, never forget (like linux).
13:28<amacater>sychill: Depends very much on what else is on them ...
13:28<jason1237>Antinmony? why that eleement by the way?
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13:29<amacater>I don't know - but that's apparently what causes lung problems from breathing in solder fumes and can cause hyper-sensitivity and major lung problems.
13:29<jason1237>blood testing would help to check the Pb in body, for old solder technicians... pooor technicians
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13:29<sney>the warning sticker on my flux paste tube also warns of blindness
13:29<sney>it's not friendly stuff
13:30<jason1237>blindess vwont come from pb or sn. pb will lead to more and those elememnts can cause alhezheimer
13:30<jason1237>Al is likely in there too?
13:31<Sqrt{not}>Artifical Intelligence???
13:32<amacater>Don't go read the Wikipedia article :(
13:32<jason1237>aluminium
13:33<Sqrt{not}>amacater, too late -- and scary -- it's everywhere
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13:34<jason1237>likely pb is still used in China and sold to EU
13:34<jason1237>dont eat your chinese pc mother boards
13:34<amacater>Still OK for hobbyists / repairs - so most amateur radio kits, for example.
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13:42<sychill>is there a webpage that tracks what packages and capabilities users have to give up when migrating to a debian distro?
13:43<sychill>in principle, I'd like to "diff" stretch with bullseye, and just see the negatives before migrating so there are no surprises
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13:44<amacater>sychill: Diffing stretch with bullseye might be far too much of a move. Better to update stretch -> buster and then buster -> bullseye
13:45<amacater>Otherwise you're doing > 5 years comparison
13:45<amacater>There shouldn't be nasty surprises: release notes are there for a reason :)
13:45<amacater>You shouldn't have to give up packages unless they're superseded
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13:47<amacater>So - you can compare versions of things that amtter - like Xorg / gcc / python but that won't necessarily help much
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13:58<sychill>well so far i've lost the ability to OCR documents, and openssl dropped SSL2/3 which breaks connections to some Tor onion servers (which use SSL for verification not for crypto)
13:58<sychill>back when i upgraded /to/ stretch, i lost CLI passwordsafe
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14:00<sychill>fetchmail no longer has opportunistic encryption
14:01<sychill>(as of bullseye)
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14:03<amacater>One which broke for me was offlineimap - even though, in theory, it uses Python 3 - but I now use mbsync instead
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14:04<sychill>this mentions python2 obsolescence, but not the impact of that: http://5ekxbftvqg26oir5wle3p27ax3wksbxcecnm6oemju7bjra2pn26s3qd.onion/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#noteworthy-obsolete-packages
14:04<spawacz>Does reportbug ask for attachment after saving the report message or it sends just right after i exit vim?
14:05<bremner>spawacz: I think there's a chance to add attachement before sending. At least I do it that way.
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14:05<bremner>it _might_ depend on what mode reportbug is in (expert vs ...)
14:06<sychill>we could actually use a tool.. something that will look at the dpkg db and tell the user which packages will be discontinued or lose capabilities
14:07<amacater>sychill: There are 50,000 packages to consider and anyone can have random packages ... it's a travelling salesman problem in terms of complexity.
14:08<sychill>exactly why a tool makes sense.. the tool would only look at what matters to you
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14:10<sychill>atm, none of the issues i've hit would have been expected from the release notes, unless i had happened to know that the OCR package was python2-dependent
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14:12<amacater>For interest - which OCR package? It would have had python2 as one of its' dependencies, for example
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14:13<sychill>ocrodjvu https://github.com/jwilk/ocrodjvu/issues/39
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14:19<amacater>sychill: How big a program is it? Has anybody sized up what needs to be done?
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14:22<sychill>amacater: i've not looked at the code, and i don't know python, but i *think* ocrodjvu should be small because it a wrapper of sorts, not the actual OCR engine
14:22<sychill>tesseract is the OCR engine
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14:23<sychill>,v tesseract-ocr-eng
14:23<judd>Package: tesseract-ocr-eng on amd64 -- jessie: 3.02-2; stretch: 3.04.00-1; stretch-backports: 1:4.00~git30-7274cfa-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:4.00~git30-7274cfa-1; bullseye: 1:4.00~git30-7274cfa-1.1; sid: 1:4.00~git30-7274cfa-1.1
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14:25<amacater>So yes, it's a wrapper script and tesseract is the same version ... not so insanely difficult, he says, hopefully.
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14:26<sychill>looks like there's a chance the engine survived, which probably means OCR can still be done on PDFs
14:26<amacater>OCR is deep magic: almost as hard to do well as text -> speech :(
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14:28<jason1237>google can --- though
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14:29<sychill>i'm perhaps unusually dependant on OCR, since IMO Google and Microsoft have destroyed email, I do everything by postal mail
14:30<bremner>yes. that would be unusual
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14:31<sychill>i'm not eager to just let MACFANG take power
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14:32<sychill>everytime i emailed an outlook user, i was helping support Microsoft's dominance. so i quit
14:32<quadrat>sychill just as a sidequestion, why do you use ocr on pdfs?
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14:34<sychill>quadrat: actually it's djvu files I use it on. The reason is because I scan a doc that was mailed to me, and i have a script to OCR it, figure out what it is, and file it. If it's a bank statement, it detects the billing period and picks a filename that corresponds with that bank
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14:35<sychill>the OCR then makes it easy for me to copy-paste quotes for composing my responses
14:35<sychill>(apart from helping the script figure out what doc it is)
14:35<sarnold>use an x-acto knife maybe?
14:35<quadrat>so kinda what paperless-ng does? sychill
14:35<jason1237>sychill: why could they destroy email? email still lives
14:36<jason1237>thunderbird + exhcnage plugin
14:36<sychill>sarnold: as a LaTeX user, that would really do serious harm to my pride
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14:37<sarnold>sychill: hehe :)
14:37<sychill>jason1237: google and microsoft have set their own terms. Instead of accepting RFC-compliant mail, they discriminate on the basis of IP address to force everyone to relay their mail through a 3rd party (thus more snooping)
14:38<sychill>,v paperless-ng
14:38<judd>No package named 'paperless-ng' was found in amd64.
14:39<sychill>not sure what that is
14:39<sychill>is use unpaper sometimes
14:39<sychill>,v unpaper
14:39<judd>Package: unpaper on amd64 -- jessie: 0.4.2-1; stretch: 6.1-2+b1; bullseye: 6.1-2+b2; buster: 6.1-2+b2; sid: 6.1-2+b2
14:39<quadrat>ahh it's a program which takes the pdf from the scanner and does the categorizing of those
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14:40<quadrat>sychill thanks, will look into it, as I am right now trying do digitze most stuff
14:41<sychill>well i don't have a directly attached twain scanner. I have a scanner that dumps to sdcard or USB, and one that sits on the network. so a tool that connects to a scanner wouldn't help me
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14:42<sychill>luckily canon supports linux, but sadly the proprietary sw they made for linux is missing some of the features they put in the windows version
14:42<quadrat>sychill yeah mine just dumps it on a ftp server where it gets picked up by paperless-ng
14:43<jason1237>I have brother, it works great, but true, they wont help in opensource much
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14:44<quadrat>jason1237 most enterprise printers have opensource drivers, also with brother
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14:45<jason1237>like the big xerox alike?
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14:45<jason1237>I see that it supports only windows, you need a soft with high security and a chip (card) to login to print
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14:47<quadrat>idk, I have for example mfc-l2710dw, mfc-l2700dw, hl-l2375dw which both mfc are opensource
14:47<quadrat>and those are home usage
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14:50<sychill>quadrat: does paperless-ng handle djvu docs?
14:51<quadrat>sychill not that I know off, and I can't find anything
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16:15<jhutchins>Brother printers have a proprietary 32 bit 'wrapper' and are very difficult to set up as a networked share with Cups.
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16:18<sney>that depends on the model, I've heard people sing the praises of some brother models on linux
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16:18<sychill>,v virtualbox
16:18<judd>Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.22-dfsg-2
16:18<sney>!virtualbox
16:18<dpkg>Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.libera.chat.
16:19<sychill>not bullseye? what happened to virtualbox? And why is virtualbox-guest-additions-iso still a bullseye pkg?
16:19<sychill>ah
16:19<sney>#794466
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16:19<sney>hm, slow bot or no bot?
16:19<sney>anyway, tl;dr blame oracle and their patch policies
16:20<Sqrt{not}>jhutchins, my many years old brother all-in-one works great with cups driverless, as a networked printer
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16:21<jhutchins>Sqrt{not}: I have a 2040. The hard part is figuring out the URI. There's no way to display the one that's actually being shared.
16:21<jhutchins>Sqrt{not}: I think part of the problem might be that Cups is not IPv6 friendly.
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16:22<Sqrt{not}>yeah, I remember having to run some avahi thing to find it the first time, some CLI thing that was buried deep in the documentation
16:22<quadrat>the only "problem" I have with brother is, that the driver is still 32bit :(
16:22<Sqrt{not}>but yeah, mine is working on IPv4 local net
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16:23<Sqrt{not}>quadrat, I don't use any brother driver, just cups driverless
16:23<quadrat>over the ipp protocol?
16:23<Sqrt{not}>yes, IPP
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16:24<quadrat>how do you get the scanner to work? or none?
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16:24<Sqrt{not}>I rarely use the scanner. It has a scan-to-USB mode for those times when I do scan anything
16:25<petn-randall>sney: Did those people praising brothers tend to be masochists?
16:25<quadrat>ahh, yeah I do scan-to-ftp, but still want to have an option to get the scanned file onto my pc
16:26<Sqrt{not}>my linux box has some USB plug-in ports
16:26<sney>petn-randall: dunno, but the implication was that they're pretty plug and play
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16:27<Sqrt{not}>quadrat, I mean, I plug in a usb stick into the scanner's usb port; scan whatever onto the stick; move stick to computer
16:27<sney>my printer is a 6-year-old hp mfp. It has lasted far longer than I expected. it prints via cups-driverless and scans to a samba share. of course, the model is discontinued so I can't usefully recommend it to other linux users
16:27<grawity>hmm I'd expect an ipp-everywhere printer to support microsoft's wsd thing for scanning
16:28<quadrat>Sqrt{not} i meant, without using a usb stick or the like ;) that's why I want to scan directly to my pc, rather a usb device
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16:28<Sqrt{not}>dunno what wsd is, but $SPOUSE's windows laptop can scan directly from this brother thing via the lan
16:29<grawity>https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Scanning_with_the_eSCL_Protocol (and the following section)
16:29<grawity>and/or apparently https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan-unstable
16:30<Sqrt{not}>I've just never been interested enough to setup network scanning to linux for this thing, for the 3 times a year I scan anything
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16:32<quadrat>,v sane-airscan
16:32<judd>Package: sane-airscan on amd64 -- buster-backports: 0.99.19-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 0.99.24-1; sid: 0.99.24-1; experimental: 0.99.26-1
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16:35<sney>scanning to samba is the best solution I've found, I just hit the "scan" button on the printer and the pdf appears in ~/Documents/scan a few moments later
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16:36<sney>no libsane involvement whatsoever
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16:37<Sqrt{not}>jhutchins, the webpage I see for brother 2040 says "The HL-2040 offers USB and Parallel interfaces." I'm not sure if driverless works over a parallel port.
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16:38<luser>can you guys guide me on underclocking of gpu vram?
16:38<sney>with some parallel port printers, you could cat a pdf/ps directly to /dev/lp0 and it would print perfectly
16:38<sychill>quadrat: a like the Avision portable scanners, because they are platform-agnostic, which means not a dime goes toward windows drivers. It scans to sdcard, and there's a USB cable so the scanner just appears as a mass storage devices
16:38<luser>or is that....2 much?
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16:40<Sqrt{not}>luser, is this your 4 nvidia setup?
16:40<luser>LOL... yeah.
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16:40<luser>now everything works so I am super happy
16:40<petn-randall>For Ethereum mining?
16:40<luser>but I would like to experiment with underclocking
16:40<luser>no, no! no mining...
16:40<luser>if it were eth mining why would I underclock vram >_>....
16:41<Sqrt{not}>(I was wondering that, just in general)
16:42<sychill>looks like not even oracle is supporting bullseye: https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/technologies/vm/downloads/virtualbox-downloads.html
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16:42<sney>sychill: they don't usually release a package for debian until sometime after the release
16:43<sney>so you might see a vbox package from oracle sometime around 11.1
16:43<luser>guys chilll...debian rocks and it will always rock
16:43<luser>I mean u mofos convinced me to drop wind0000z3
16:43<luser>for this shit... so IT GOTTA BE GOOD, right?.
16:44<sney>what are you even talking about
16:44<quadrat>sychill most install from sid, till it gets released for the new stable
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16:47<sychill>quadrat: ok, i'll try that
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16:48<quadrat>make sure you have default-release set sychill
16:49<sychill>i'm not sure what that means.. is that in /etc/apt/sources.list?
16:49<sney>!tum
16:49<dpkg>[Testing-Unstable Mix] echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20-tum.conf , then edit sources.list, copy your primary testing line and change the copy to unstable, then 'apt update'. Use 'apt -t unstable install foo' to install foo from unstable rather than testing. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution.
16:50<sney>I'm not sure I'd recommend it this close to the bullseye release, but it's a common setup at any other point in the testing cycle
16:50<sney>I guess you could enable this just to install virtualbox, and then comment it out in sources.list right after
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16:53<quadrat>sney doesn't it make more sense to set it to bullseye, rather than testing?
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16:53<quadrat>idk what would happen with bullseye in sources.list and testing as default-release
16:53<sney>that's how it was on my bullseye machine until recently and it worked fine
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16:54<sney>apt knows that bullseye and testing are the same thing
16:54<quadrat>sney yeah I guess because testing = bullseye, I was talking with bullseye = stable :/
16:55<sney>I would definitely not leave any default-release stuff enabled after the stable release.
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16:56<quadrat>i would just put bullseye as default-release which should circumvent any issues
16:57<luser>sorry to be annoying but debian does not have the package nvidia-xconfig?
16:57<sney>,v nvidia-xconfig
16:57<judd>Package: nvidia-xconfig on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 340.46-1; stretch/contrib: 390.87-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 418.56-1~bpo9+1; buster/contrib: 418.56-1; bullseye/contrib: 460.32.03-1; sid/contrib: 460.32.03-1
16:57<luser>I have to enable some retarded coolbits
16:57<sney>luser: you've been warned about your language usage, please be civil
16:57<sney>anyway, it's in contrib. enable contrib and you can install nvidia-xconfig.
16:57<luser>tnx
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17:36<odfjhiosujhgfuierh>hello
17:37<odfjhiosujhgfuierh>how to capture packets with wireshark?
17:37<odfjhiosujhgfuierh>i do not see any ethernet interface...
17:38<grawity>add yourself to the 'wireshark' group using `gpasswd` then log out & log back in
17:38<odfjhiosujhgfuierh>getup
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17:39<anidark>hi
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17:39<jhujhiti>https://wiki.wireshark.org/CaptureSetup/CapturePrivileges#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_other_Debian_derivatives
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17:44<yaya>thanks for wireshark answer, very useful answer and tool at all!
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17:50<sychill>,v python2
17:50<judd>Package: python2 on amd64 -- buster: 2.7.16-1; bullseye: 2.7.18-2; sid: 2.7.18-2
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17:51<sychill>python2 is in bullseye after all, so that can't be the reason ocrodjvu was burned
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17:52<sney>some python2 pieces were kept in bullseye for build system compatibility, but packages that were stuck on python2 with no plans to upgrade were still removed for that reason
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17:53<sney>it was a compromise, not a "never mind, all python2-only stuff is still allowed" reversal
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17:55<sychill>it makes no sense. if the dependencies are present, there's no reason to exclude a pkg.
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17:55<sychill>in the case of ocrodjvu, the upstream devs said they wouldn't migrate to python3, but they would welcome PRs that do so
17:56<sney>and if that actually happens, they or anyone else are free to submit it to debian again
17:57<sychill>okay, but it's a needless disruption. there's no benefit to dropping a pkg when the dependencies are still there
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17:58<sney>if ocrodjvu was still maintained while all the python2-rm stuff was happening last year, they might have filed a bug to keep it in debian. or you could have, if you had noticed. or any other user could have too.
17:58<sney>but apparently nobody did, so here we are.
17:59-!-srgrint [~srgrint@13.201.159.143.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: srgrint]
17:59<sychill>though it might be useful to mark a pkg as "endangered", so new adopters might opt to avoid bringing it into their workflow
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18:00<sney>debian's goal was to eliminate py2-only software for bullseye. and *even though* a little bit of it squeaked through (ahem, thanks google), the eventual goal is still to axe python 2, so any unmaintained old software would still be removed
18:01<sney>ocrodjvu upstream had over a decade of warning that py2 was going to be eol, and that they should migrate their codebase. they have now arrived at the consequences of not doing it.
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19:29<beepboop>Hello everyone :) Signing in at salsa.debian.org via my bitbucket account results in 500 or 502 errors
19:30<sney>salsa support is in #salsa, I know some accounts need manual unblocking sometimes
19:30<beepboop>thanks :) I'll ask there
19:31<sney>np
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19:46-!-sward is "Simon Ward" on #debian
19:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 984] by debhelper
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19:52-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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19:57-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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20:07-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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20:17-!-ax562 [~ax562@0002ac27.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:17-!-ax562 is "realname" on #linux #debian #debian-next
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20:28-!-PaMeDa is "apauli" on #debian
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20:31-!-chuangzhu is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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20:36-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #dri #dri-devel #oolite #tor #oftc @#yugiohjcj #llvm #debian
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21:11-!-sidmo_ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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21:14-!-filexx_ is "filexx_" on #debian
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21:18-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debian-ubuntu #debian-xfce #debconf18-taiwan #debian #debconf-miniauditorio
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21:20-!-quarkyalice is "realname" on #postmarketos #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-lowlevel #asahi #asahi-dev #asahi-gpu #asahi-re #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #alpine-docs #alpine-offtopic #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #quarky
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21:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 971] by debhelper
21:30-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: "Weee! Moving to libera.chat!"]
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21:31-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
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21:33-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
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21:34-!-Noah0504 is "Noah Duffy" on #debian
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21:38-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
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21:40-!-sward is "Simon Ward" on #debian
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21:42-!-cef is "Cefiar" on #intel-3d #dri-devel #debian #debian-next
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21:43-!-HumanGeek is "realname" on #android-fr #open-source-java #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian
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21:43-!-Meli is "meli" on #osm-sotm-ct #osm-it #fdroid #debian-social #debian-next #debian
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21:44-!-HumanGeek is "realname" on #android-fr #open-source-java #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian
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21:49-!-gateway2000 is "realname" on #debian
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21:56-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
21:56-!-SuperDale [dalek@124.55.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #debian
21:56-!-SuperDale is "dale" on #debian
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21:58-!-zhoreeq is "user,,," on #debian
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22:08-!-ChromaCat248 [~ChromaCat@0002b9d5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:08-!-ChromaCat248 is "realname" on #virt #oftc #moocows #linux #debian #C #
22:11-!-boistordu_old is "realname" on #debian-nginx #debian-qemu #debian-ubuntu #debian-xfce #dri-devel #gentoo #freenode #gfortran #haskell #hackerspaces #haiku #guardianproject #help #ifupdown-ng #java #kvm #llvm-build #mitmproxy #NetBSD #netdev #oftc #OpenBSD #php #python #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #tor-onions #ubuntu #virt #virtualization #wayland #xfs
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22:12-!-craigevil is "craig" on #freedombox #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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22:22-!-banc [~banc@217.151.98.168] has joined #debian
22:22-!-banc is "banc" on #debian
22:27-!-lonewulf` [~lonewulf@00020897.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:27-!-lonewulf` is "U-lonewulf-PC\lonewulf" on #linode #debian-offtopic #debian #oftc
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22:33-!-chuangzhu is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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22:39-!-madez is "madez" on #debian
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22:46-!-user is "realname" on #debian
22:47-!-user is now known as Guest1324
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22:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 965] by debhelper
22:58-!-ax562 [~ax562@0002ac27.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:58-!-ax562 is "realname" on #linux #debian #debian-next
23:00-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has joined #debian
23:00-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
23:00-!-ax56234 [~NickServ@0002affd.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:00-!-ax56234 is "truth" on #debian
23:01-!-nuc_ [~nuc@2001:16b8:a52a:6000:3549:3d3f:b5a4:a96b] has joined #debian
23:01-!-nuc_ is "realname" on #debian
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23:01-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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23:02-!-Main_ [~secntech@67-2-94-188.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #debian
23:02-!-Main_ is "tp" on #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
23:03-!-chuangzhu [~chuangzhu@0002c2e8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:06-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4a50:9e00:bc67:e7f2:cbca:3273] has joined #debian
23:06-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian
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23:10-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:10-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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23:26-!-gce108 [~gce@0002b961.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:26-!-gce108 is "realname" on #ovirt #debian-offtopic #debian
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23:30-!-nuc is "realname" on #debian
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23:39-!-HumanGeek is "realname" on #android-fr #open-source-java #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian
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23:50-!-filexx_ is "filexx_" on #debian
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23:53-!-filexx_ is "filexx_" on #debian
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 03 00:00:04 2021