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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-03

---Logopened Sat Jul 03 00:00:04 2021
---Daychanged Sat Jul 03 2021
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00:00-!-_cr_ is "Carsten Rosenberg" on #debian @#clamav
00:05<alex11>what's the way to disable a program? not a service (like systemctl disable/stop foo.service)
00:05<alex11>i've done this before, i just forget
00:05<alex11>you move it to a .disabled extension i think but i forget where in the filesystem it is
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00:09<alex11>oh, right
00:09<alex11>so the answer is it depends but for the thing i'm looking for it's in /usr/share/dbus-1
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00:20-!-ax5623 is "truth" on #linux #debian-next #debian
00:27<alex11>and you append 'disabled' to it
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09:59<mogglebing>Hi, is there a shortcut to install all the "general" debian documentation locally? Like debian-faq package, debian-reference package.
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11:18<sychill>the /usr/share/doc/xwayland folder is useless. How do you run xwayland? I thought the command was "weston", but that command doesn't exist
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11:23<dselect>Weston is the reference implementation of a <wayland> compositor (display server), developed by the Wayland project. Available since Debian 8 "Jessie" although very much a work-in-progress. #wayland on
11:23<Sqrt{not}>,i weston
11:23<judd>Package weston (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: reference implementation of a wayland compositor. Version: 5.0.0-3; Size: 911.1k; Installed: 3657k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
11:23<sychill>got it working
11:24<Sqrt{not}>OK, good job
11:24<sychill>turns out i just had to restart sway after installing xwayland. xwayland kicks in automatically
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11:45<Ares>boys, can I put on my CV a free online course from MIT ?
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11:46<sney>you probably shouldn't assume that everyone here is "boys"
11:46<sney>but anyway, sure, if you complete the course and feel you have a good understanding of the material. but you should probably include (online) or so
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11:47<Ares>that`s great! thanks!
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12:31<Human_G33k>there is a way to know process trying to connect to network ?
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12:33<sychill>netstat should give you that info
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12:34<sychill>or isof, iirc it's more detailed
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12:42<Human_G33k>sychill netstat show me connection (iftop too)
12:42<Human_G33k>not find isof or iirc package
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12:44<tristero>Human_G33k: netstat with the "-p" flag will show connected processes. The other command is lsof (with an L)
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12:45<tristero>and "ss" (along with "ip") largely replaces netstat these days
12:45<Human_G33k>i will try that
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13:12<vv221>Human_G33k, « iirc » = « if I remember correctly », this is not the name of a package ;)
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13:12<spawacz>and is there a way to interactively see if some process tries to connect?
13:13<spawacz>not in a form of netstat, but get a log that this process at tthis time called connect?
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13:13<spawacz>so that i dont need to refresh netstat and dont miss a connection that was quickly closed?
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13:27<tristero>if you know the process ID ahead of time, you can use strace. But if you want to see any connection attempt, the only way I can think of is to use a netfilter rule
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13:43<scorpion2185[m]>are there terminal games?
13:44<ratrace>there should be
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13:47<tia3100>Hello there
13:48<tia3100>I am seeming having some odd issue, I started receiving off kernel errors for my cd-drive, I never use it. Haven't had it so far, it would start posting these lines every 5 minutes or so. I don't know where to even look, or what it could be
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13:48<sney>tia3100: no disc in the drive?
13:48<tia3100>If anyone knows, whether this is device failure, or software issue, or how could I try to debug/test it
13:48<tia3100>Yep, no disc inside
13:48<sney>it's probably device failure.
13:49<tia3100>Anything I coudl try to probe it?
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13:49<towo`>do you happen to use steam?
13:49<sney>put a disc in it and try to do something. load files, play music, etc
13:50<tia3100>Yeah, I do use steam, but those messages can appear even when steam is not active
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13:50<towo`>but for steam, it is trying to access the drive, i know it, i have the same here
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13:51<towo`>and if there is running other software, which is trying to access the drive, the same messages appear
13:51<towo`>you can avoid it, if you put a data cd in the drive
13:51<tia3100>Looking more in logs it does appear worrying
13:52<tia3100>Could I somehow check what is trying to access cd drive, maybe the issue starts there?, I still have some hope it isn't device faiulre, but considering it is 7 years old, it woudln't be unsurprising
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13:53<towo`>put a cd in that drive, than you see, if it is a failure, i think, it's not
13:54<sney>also clean it out with some compressed air, the drive should be able to report that it is empty without trying/failing to read the disc, but maybe not if there's dust in the lens
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13:55<tia3100>I will try those things, thanks
13:56<tia3100>I am confused about filesystem remouning message, why is it doing that?
13:56<tia3100>ext2 filesystem being remounted at /newroot/boot supports timestamps until 2038 (0x7fffffff)
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13:56<amacater>That's a bit more concerning in some ways - what is there?
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13:59<tia3100>There is no such thing as /newroot/boot
13:59<tia3100>when I check /
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13:59<tia3100>So I am at complete loss about that, it always tries that once those cd-messages appear
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14:00<tia3100>Looking at df and lsblk, no such moun point exists
14:01<sney>tia3100: I have a similar message on my system that uses encrypted lvm for /
14:01<amacater>If it's a desktop machine, try actually disconnecting the power and SATA lines to the drive and then see what happens when you turn it back on again.
14:01<amacater>CD/DVD drive, I mean
14:01<tia3100>It is laptop, and I already tried to plug/unplog drive, no change
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14:02<tia3100>I am confused about it, as it starts and stops appearing at random. First time I noticed it it was going for 2 hours, and now just 10 minutes
14:03<tia3100>As towo` suggested, I started steam and am following log, just to see if it might be that
14:03<tia3100>sney: That remounting message or cd-drive messages?
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14:03<sney>tia3100: the rmounting message. it's the same, except it refers to remounting at /boot instead of /newroot/boot.
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14:04<tia3100>sney: Do you mean srp 03 14:38:34 kernel: ext2 filesystem being mounted at /boot supports timestamps until 2038 (0x7fffffff)
14:04<tia3100>srp 03 14:38:34 kernel: ext2 filesystem being mounted at /boot supports timestamps until 2038 (0x7fffffff)
14:05<tia3100>sney: Actually you said remounting, my bad. But what would /newroot/boot/ even be? First time heard about it
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14:06<sney>tia3100: maybe a temporary path from your initrd
14:06<amacater>tia3100: Maybe have a look at lsof / top to see what has files open / what processes are running. Also look at logs.
14:06<tia3100>Just to show, that nothing abnormal is shown there
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14:08<tia3100>sney: Why would it start trying to remount it randomly days after boot?
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14:09<sney>I don't know, mine only does it during boot.
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14:10<tia3100>sney: I get same message during boot, but this later, is abnormal
14:11<sney>tia3100: that's just your cd drive again, I strongly doubt the /boot issue and your cd drive are related
14:11<tia3100>Looking at kernel messages, they only show as much more, it knows it is empty, and yet still tries to read from it
14:11<sney>yeah, that's funny
14:12<sney>maybe HP has a firmware update for you?
14:12<tia3100>sney: I agree that /boot shouldn't be related to it, but it doest try to remount /newroot/boot. Even though I don't even have /newroot/boot
14:12<tia3100>sney: Would be nice, but last one was 5 years ago
14:13<tia3100>It would be great if I could figure out what is inducing it in the first place
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14:15<urk>I am trying to figure out the running process of libreoffice in the stable release. I ran ps -e, and didn't see it so I then ran ps -e | grep writer, and also ran ps -e | grep libre, and the command returned nothing. Any ideas? Libreoffice has locked up.
14:16<sney>I think it's all "soffice"
14:16<urk>That did it.
14:17<amacater>From olden times when Staroffice -> OpenOffice -> Libreoffice
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14:20<amacater>tia3100 - You have encrypted LVM which has an ext2 boot partition. It's paossibly an artifact from the remount of your LVM once you've put in the password. What _was_ root is now not root, and the "proper root" inside the decrypted LVM space is now mounted as /newroot - perhaps?
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14:25<NthDegree>amacater, I have an OpenOffice 5.2 CD somewhere
14:26<NthDegree>Complete with Adabas D
14:26<NthDegree>(yes, it used to have a proper database that shipped with it...)
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14:37<tia3100>amacater: Would it then be visible with lsbk at least? And it tries to remount to /newroot/boot/ several times in sync with those cd drivce messages
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14:44<jimpop>is there a scriptable alternative for 'apt list --upgradable'?
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14:44<tia3100>You can add alias to your .bashrc
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14:45<tia3100>just add at end
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14:46<tia3100>alias aptu='apt list --upgradable'
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14:46<tia3100>then reopen terminal and it should work as aptu
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14:46<jimpop>that's not going to prevent the warning (WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
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14:47<tia3100>it will, as you are not creating script
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14:48<tia3100>make alias in bashr, that is all, no need for a script
14:48<jimpop>i don't think you get what I am asking for, but thanks anyways
14:49<jmcnaught>jimpop: you could use "aptitude search ~U" (or "aptitude search '?upgradable'")
14:49<tia3100>jmcnaught: Oh, you asked for alternative scriptable, I though it included aliasing
14:49<jimpop>ok, thx, I'll give that a try
14:49<jimpop>thx jmcnaught
14:50<jimpop>tia3100: you are trying too hard lol
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14:51<jimpop>btw, calling aliases from within a script is no different than calling the actual aliased cmd line
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14:52<tia3100>I have tested cd-drive with data disc\
14:52<tia3100>No messages of any kind in logs, and is fully working
14:53<tia3100>At this point it looks to me more as software issue
14:53<jimpop>i have no idea what you are writing about. lol
14:53<tia3100>Something I was talking about before
14:53<jimpop>good luck!!
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15:35<krumelmonster>I'm administering a multi-user system that has a shared directory. The desktop that users use will copy file attributes when they copy files. This meant that when people copy over files from a non group-writable directory to a group-writable directory, the file won't be group-writable as the users would expect. By now I "solved" this issue using bindfs that enforces the permissions but this really doesn't seem to be the correct so
15:35<krumelmonster> I don't want to teach the users about how to change file permissions.
15:37<bremner>maybe you need a higher level client of some kind, like a web interface
15:39<krumelmonster>No, I just want to make sure that everything people copy to the shared directories has 770 permissions. Without the bindfs-hack if someone copies a file from their home-directory (which is 700) to the shares, others won't be able to open it
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15:43<ansgar>krumelmonster: Congratulations, you have demands that exceed the capabilities of standard Linux file system permissions. ;-)
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15:43<ansgar>krumelmonster: Sometimes default ACLs help, but that depends how much programs like to set permissions.
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15:44<krumelmonster>they like it too much (tried that before)
15:44<krumelmonster>So I guess I'll stick with bindfs?
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15:45<ansgar>Or use obscure filesystems with obscure permissions like OpenAFS (no, not really a solution).
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15:47<r4fkramer>Hello everyone. Please, I have already used all 'systemd' commands to try to remedy this situation. How to keep recreating directories permanently enabled for these services? As well as the permissions created for them.
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15:49<krumelmonster>r4fkramer: try sudo journalctl --unit apache2
15:49<Blendie>is there a way to correctly install vbox on bullseye?
15:49<Blendie>i even pinned sid
15:49<Blendie>the modules build but thy fail to load
15:49<r4fkramer>Hi krumelmonster, thanks for answering :) Let me try it now.
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15:50<dpkg>Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. #vbox on
15:50<krumelmonster>Blendie: I have no idea but I was really satisfied when I switched from VirtualBox to virt-manager
15:50<krumelmonster>(Don't know if this is for you though)
15:51<Blendie>i see, i will take a note of this
15:51<krumelmonster>Blendie: Getting permission right with virt-manager was a bit of a hassle for me but it was worth it.
15:52<Blendie>however, i'd like to know why the modules build but fail to load
15:52<enyc>sney: that dpkg needs updating, #vbox channel is definitely now
15:52<Blendie>vbox is still present in sid
15:52<r4fkramer>Sorry, krumelmonster output is too extensive and it gets truncated. I've already used these commands before
15:52<r4fkramer>Please, I forgot how to show complete output.
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15:53<krumelmonster>you can scroll through it using PageUp/PageDn keys. Use `journalctl -e --unit apache2` to see the end of the output (most recent messages
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15:54<quadrat>Blendie without any logs, who knows?
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15:55<Blendie>let me generate the logs quickly then
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15:55<enyc>Blendie: fwiw sid packages can be just downloadad and installed on bullseye without rebuild
15:56<enyc>Blendie: for vbox...
15:56<Blendie>i got sid pinned
15:56<istrive>hello World! I hope you're all safe! At least we are isolated ;)
15:56<Blendie>at 99 priority
15:56<Blendie>so i am able to install the app, just the modules even tho build ont load
15:56<enyc>Blendie: oh and you say vbox dkms modules build but not load
15:56<enyc>Blendie: what kernel?
15:56<Blendie>the latest bullseye
15:56<jhutchins>Blendie: We can not and do not support mixed releases.
15:57<Blendie>i understand
15:57<enyc>Blendie: fwiw they work on 5.10.0-8-amd64 and did work on previous though tbh not checked latest latest debian build
15:57<Blendie>so can i paste the logs or should i forget about it
15:57<ratrace>Blendie: try in #debian-next
15:57<enyc>Blendie: 6.1.20-dfsg-1 was going
15:57<jhutchins>Blendie: Loading modules usually involves /etc/modules*
15:57<Blendie>ok i just joined #debian-next
15:57<enyc>Blendie: I'd try #debian-next and **on Monday** try #vbox *on OFTC* this network
15:58<istrive>I have a systemd service with a valiable %I hat represent the vm name, I want to parse this variable to a bash script so I can run on exit stop, but it is not properly parsing it: ExecStop=/opt/code/ %I on service and the command as $1 in bash failes
15:58<r4fkramer>krumelmonster, I applied the command you've passed me. But, the truncated issue continues here. That's the output:
15:58<istrive>anyone now how it can be done, if it is possible in the first place?
15:58<enyc>** dpkg to update? , can somebody with the appropiate dpkg bot foo, update the virtualbox widget -- it refers to incorrectly, #vbox channel definitely officially on and active on oftc (this net)
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16:01<krumelmonster>r4fkramer: So you configured apache2 to log to the directory /var/log/apache2/ but this directory is either nonexistent or inaccesible to the user which runs the service. Try `ls -ld /var/log/apache2/` to see whether the directory exists and what its permissions are
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16:01<jmcnaught>dpkg: vbox =~ s/
16:01<dpkg>jmcnaught: that doesn't contain ''
16:02<r4fkramer>Ok krumelmonster.
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16:03<r4fkramer>ls: cannot access '/var/log/apache2/': No such file or directory - I always recreate this directory and stauts becomes green after that. But, next reboot it's 'degraded' status again
16:04<jmcnaught>dpkg: virtualbox =~ s/
16:04<dpkg>OK, jmcnaught
16:04<ratrace>r4fkramer: what is "degraded"?
16:04<istrive>can systemd parse variable to bash script or just the other way around?
16:05<ratrace>istrive: your example should've worked. are you 100% sure it doesn't? how are you naming the service unit file? also, #systemd on Libera can be more helpful
16:05<r4fkramer>ratrace, 'degraded' is the status for 'systemclt status' I have here
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16:05<r4fkramer>It's flagged in red color
16:05<ratrace>r4fkramer: please pastebin
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16:06<ratrace>r4fkramer: and what do you mean "always recreate"? is /var/log volatile/tmpfs?
16:07<ratrace>r4fkramer: systemctl list-units --failed
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16:10<r4fkramer>ratrace, I have to create directory again, because it says: no such file or directory (I forgot the command now) After creating again and chmod for permissions, 'systemctl status' gets red again
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16:11<ratrace>r4fkramer: how is that possible? is /var/log a tmpfs?
16:14<r4fkramer>Please, ratrace:
16:15<r4fkramer>It seems to be, but I'm really not sure. What should be other reason for that ? Probably it's a tmpfs.
16:15<ratrace>r4fkramer: and what about journalctl -b -u apache2.service ?
16:15<ratrace>r4fkramer: well it's either a tmpfs or some other volatile form, or you have some dumb `tmpfiles` rule.... /var/log should normally be persistent on disk. it's abnormal to have to recreaete it or dirs in it on each boot
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16:18<r4fkramer>ratrace, this is the command I used before that said about no such directory for this service, but I've forgotten:
16:19<jmcnaught> is an earlier non-truncated paste of apache2's journal
16:19<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: what does "findmnt -T /var/log" say?
16:19<r4fkramer>Yes, doesn't make sense I have to create it always after new reboot. Is there any possibility it's happening because any issue related to btrfs ?
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16:20<Walex>ratrace: some people put all logs on 'tmpfs' or 'ramdisk' to save on small siye writes.
16:20<r4fkramer>Fine jmcnaught, just one moment, I'll be back in one minute. Issues here
16:20<ratrace>Walex: I know. those people aren't confused by that issue then, they know what they're doing.
16:21<Walex>ratrace: yes, this looks like a case of "involuntary" putting in RAM. Very strange.
16:21<ratrace>if it even is a tmpfs, could be some other reasons
16:21<Walex>r4fkramer: did you originally configure that system?
16:21<Walex>r4fkramer: or did you inherite it from someone else)
16:21<ratrace>tmpfiles rule. some sort of perpetual snapshot rollback on boot, for btrfs, ...
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16:25<r4fkramer>Please ratrace: the output of 'findmnt -T /var/log: TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS
16:26<r4fkramer>I don't know what's happened here
16:26<ratrace>r4fkramer: ?
16:26<r4fkramer>That's the other part of output: '/ /dev/sda3 btrfs rw,relatime,space_cache,subvolid=5,subvol=/'
16:27<Walex>r4fkramer: systemctl --list-units --type mount | grep var
16:27<ratrace>so your /var/log is part of regular rootfs. what about grep -ri "var/log" /etc/tmpfiles.d ?
16:27<Walex>r4fkramer: grep var /proc/mounts
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16:28<r4fkramer>systemctl: unrecognized option '--list-units'
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16:29<r4fkramer>Walex, the output for the command you have passed me, above
16:29<ratrace>r4fkramer: please try to understand commands given, even if typo'd, so you execute a correct one by your own
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16:29<ratrace>check the systemctl manpage and what "list-units" does
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16:30<r4fkramer>No output for 'grep var /proc/mounts'
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16:31<Walex>r4fkramer: systemctl list-units --type mount | grep var
16:31<r4fkramer>I try to do all my best here, ratrace, but sometimes I can't follow you, for I have to apply several commands and create other new paste to send you
16:31<ratrace>I don't think there's point in all that if findmnt shows root, and grep of mounts shows none
16:31<r4fkramer>Walex, no output for this command you've passed me now
16:32<ratrace>you're just repeating various ways to show one and the same information: no mount for var/log
16:32<Walex>r4fkramer: the commands that 'ratrace' and myself have suggested show that '/var/log' is not on a different filesystem
16:32<ratrace>r4fkramer: please try grep -ri "var/log" /etc/tmpfiles.d
16:32<ratrace>and if that fails (no output), please try systemctl cat apache2.service | grep -i LogDir
16:32<Walex>ratrace: but a lot of commands can get it wrong, '/proc/mounts' is as authoritative as it can be.
16:32<r4fkramer>yes, I can realize that, Walex
16:33<ratrace>sorry LogsDir not LogDir
16:33<Walex>ratrace: conceivably some "rootkit" could be putting logs on nonpersistent storage to hide their tracks... :-)
16:34<ratrace>in which case:
16:34<ratrace>!ripley method
16:34<dpkg>"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." -- Ellen Ripley
16:34<Walex>it is less likely that some hack (not an actual "rootkit" could compromise '/proc/mounts'
16:34<ratrace>under that assumption, no amount of trying anything would help. that system would have to be checked offline
16:35<Walex>ratrace: it is a question of how skilled the hack is.
16:35<ratrace>so under the assumption (yet) that it's not pwnt, there's still a small pool of plausible misconfigurations: tmpfiles, service unit LogsDir misapplication, etc
16:35<Walex>ratrace: indeed...
16:35<ratrace>Walex: if there's proof of compromise, the only way to proceed is offline
16:35<Walex>r4fkramer: does that system run PHP? (loaded question...)
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16:36<r4fkramer>Please, ratrace, there's no output for 'grep -ri "var/log" /etc/tmpfiles.d'
16:37<ratrace>now try that systemctl thing
16:37<r4fkramer>I will reflect about Ellen Ripley afterwards, thank you
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16:38*Walex sometimes like the "shock and awe" approach to sysadm :-)
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16:39<ratrace>sometimes you have to shake some bolts loose...
16:39<r4fkramer>Please, Walex and ratrace, do you think this issue is related to 'btrfs' ? I never configured anything, just installed this debian with 'btrfs' option. Debian installation using XFS never shows these issues, services are started normally.
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16:39<ratrace>r4fkramer: there was one more command I asked you to try
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16:39<r4fkramer>But, I don't know if it is related or not to btrfs
16:39<Walex>r4fkramer: it is very, very unlikely
16:39<ratrace>r4fkramer: it probably, likely, most likely, is not.
16:40<Walex>r4fkramer: at least used without multiple devices, single-device, Btrfs seems very reliable to me.
16:40<r4fkramer>Sorry ratrace, I'm a bit confused here. Please, could you repeat the command again ?
16:40<ratrace>Walex: the other way around. mirror/redundancy lets it heal itself automagically
16:40<ratrace>r4fkramer: systemctl cat apache2.service | grep -i LogsDir
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16:41<Walex>ratrace: the multiple device model of Btrfs is poorly implemented and I don't trust it, except perhaps raid10 mode.
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16:41<r4fkramer>ratrace, 'systemctl cat apache2.service | grep -i LogsDir' -> no output for this command
16:41<ratrace>Walex: I'm not sure what you're reffering to. It's very robust, given the extents based design. Except raid 5/6
16:42<Walex>ratrace: the implementation is "not the best design and not the best code" I think.
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16:42<ratrace>r4fkramer: okay, so the $1M question: is that regular debian and/or is there some kind of control panel involved. plesk, proxmox, solus, whatever
16:43<ratrace>Walex: I've put it in production. I've been bitten even by the "almighty" ZFS, just last year. lost data. THUS I trust no filesystem. I have backups. In that context, so far btrfs (mirror) is pretty damn sturdy
16:43<ratrace>unlike few years ago. it came a looong way.
16:43<r4fkramer>No ratrace, there isn't any control panel involved as I can see here.
16:43<Walex>ratrace: the Btrfs mirroring has trouble with missing drives, it behaves very oddly in that case.
16:44<Walex>ratrace: there is also odd behavior with adding/removing.
16:44<ratrace>r4fkramer: than you're either compromised, or you ahve some non-standarly configured, mistery something that eradicates your /var/log/ directories on boot
16:44<ratrace>Walex: maybe there were bugs in the past?
16:44<Walex>ratrace: plus mirror mode still has some limitation with single-process parallel access...
16:45<ratrace>you could chattr +i that directory and put a fsnotify or audit sniffer on it, see which PID tries to tamper with it, then catch the b'stard
16:45<Walex>ratrace: there were terrible bugs in the past, but the real problem is that the multiple device model is misdesigned, except in the case of raid10
16:45<r4fkramer>Sorry, explain this: 'Then you're either compromised'.
16:45<ratrace>Walex: oh yes. but ZFS does too
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16:46<Walex>ratrace: ZFS has *limitations* in the design, more than a misdesign.
16:46<ratrace>r4fkramer: like Walex jokingly mentioned earlier, you could be infected by some malware trying to hide logs
16:46<r4fkramer>I never did any configuration related to 'systemd' for these services and any configuration in btrfs, just installed debian using this fs option.
16:46*Walex was not entirely joking
16:47<Walex>r4fkramer: so is the system running PHP applications and is it exposed to the Internet?
16:48<r4fkramer>Walex, sorry, You asked me that before. I don't think this debian installation is running php apps, but not sure, I don't know how to check it yet
16:48<Walex>r4fkramer: is it accessible from the Internet?
16:49<r4fkramer>Yes, I suppose no issues about it.
16:49<Walex>ratrace: BTW on filesystems I quite like Btrfs on MD RAID. Another filesystem that I have come to really like is F2FS, works well on disks too.
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16:50<ratrace>Walex: that sounds like a waste. btrfs can't autoheal unless it has redundancy
16:50<r4fkramer>Walex, not so clear this question about php apps, but I think it's ok.
16:50<Walex>ratrace: sure, but MD RAID is *very* robust, both as to design and operationally.
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16:51<ratrace>Walex: until one sector fails, then it's a coin toss regarding data integrity
16:51<ratrace>(mdadm scrub)
16:52<Walex>ratrace: depends, after all Btrfs has checksums even in single device mode, so would catch that.
16:52<ratrace>sure, but it wouldn't heal
16:52<r4fkramer>ratrace, about what Walex said: No, please, no malware infection here. I'm already having enough problems with this issue of services that disappear or are hidden. I hope they are not being hidden by any malware.
16:52<Walex>ratrace: not as good a integrated multidevice/filesystem
16:52<Walex>ratrace: not as good a integrated multidevice/filesystem as you say, but still fairly OK.
16:53<r4fkramer>It seems to me that debian and malware are not related to each other. windows and malware match more
16:54<ratrace>it's easy to misconfigure a linux system and make it much more vulnerable than windows
16:54<Walex>r4fkramer: web services and malware are related, especially with PHP, but also other frameworks.
16:54<Walex>should I mention the "7 hour window" for PHP?
16:55<ratrace>running wordpress for example will get you pwn'd in short time unless you put some real security measures on it
16:56<r4fkramer>Walex, have you already experienced any issue with debian as web server before ?
16:56<ratrace>I've had the misfortune of setting up and security wordpress instance for a client. I locked it down pretty tight with strict config, some namespacing and an apparmor profile atop of it. I could see attempts to compromise the kerne, after successful WP compromise, at least once per month
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16:56<ratrace>setting up and *securing
16:57<Walex>r4fkramer: another check please...
16:57*Walex likes debugging these issues bottom up
16:58<r4fkramer>Walex, another check ?
16:58<Walex>r4fkramer: lsof -c apache2 | grep -F .log
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16:59<r4fkramer>Please, Walex:
17:00<Walex>r4fkramer: that means you have a *weird* Apache2 config.
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17:02<Walex>r4fkramer: lsof -c apache2 | grep -E -v ' (/lib|/usr/lib)'
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17:02<Walex>r4fkramer: delete any file paths that you think are confidential
17:02<r4fkramer>Yes, I'm convinced I have a weird setup here for Apache. And for the other two services too. The question is: why?
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17:02<Walex>r4fkramer: but did you setup this system?#
17:03<Walex>r4fkramer: you kept referring doing a standard Debian install, or did I misinterpret?
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17:04<r4fkramer>Thanks for technical hint, Walex. Well, I installed it as ever, without graphical option. Installation ended without any error log.
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17:05<r4fkramer>Recently I tried 'Expert Installation' - it was ended fine, without any issue too (xfs option for fs).
17:05<Walex>r4fkramer: then how did it get weirdly configured? The standard config has log files ending in ".log"
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17:07<r4fkramer>I really don't know Walex, If I had done something other than the standard installation process, I would have some reason to think I made a mistake while installing Debian. But, I didn't use encrypt fs option, didn't create Logical Volume, or any other configuration besides the usual one.
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17:09<r4fkramer>I don't have conditions to answer you about what you asked me now: for I didn't do any 'weird' configuration during debian installation, and none after installation concluded.
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17:12<Walex>r4fkramer: what did "lsof -c apache2 | grep -E -v '(/lib|/usr/lib)' give you? Any sign of paths that look like log files?
17:12<r4fkramer>It seems to me that even you found all this very strange. And they were mulling over some likely issue involving btrfs.
17:13<Walex>r4fkramer: it is very, very unlikely it is Btrfs
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17:14<Walex>r4fkramer: I was looking at and it says "Cannot access directory '/var/log/apache2/'" that is not totally good
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17:14<Walex>r4fkramer: did "ratrace" ask you to check the owner of that directory and of the 'apache2' processes?
17:15<r4fkramer>yes, Walex, 'cannto access directory', because it doesn't exist. That's why I have to recreate it all the time - boring situation
17:15<r4fkramer>All the reboot I have to recreate it
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17:16<Walex>r4fkramer: have your tried to run 'btrfs scrub' just in case?
17:16<Walex>r4fkramer: have you looked at 'smartctl -l error /dev/...'?
17:17<r4fkramer>I don't remember Walex, I can check dialogue with ratrace above and answer you after that.
17:17<r4fkramer>Let me paste other output for the last command you gave me
17:17<Walex>r4fkramer: or you can run those again...
17:18<r4fkramer>Please Walex: Now I will focuse in other informations you've passed me.
17:19<Walex>r4fkramer: ls -ld /var/log /var/log/apache2; ps -l -C apache2
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17:19<r4fkramer>I haven't done any 'smartctl -l error /dev/...' yet
17:19<Walex>lsof -c apache2 | grep -E -v ' (/lib|/usr/lib)'
17:19<r4fkramer>btrfs scrub as root ?
17:20<Walex>r4fkramer: you forgot the bir after "-v"
17:20<Walex>r4fkramer: yes it has to be run as 'root'; add the option -B is you can run it in its own window/tab/...
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17:20<Walex>ls -ld /var/log /var/log/apache2
17:21<Walex>ps -l -C apache2
17:21<Walex>ls -ldn /var/log /var/log/apache2
17:22<r4fkramer>output for lsof -c apache2 | grep -E -v '(/lib|/usr/lib)'
17:23<r4fkramer>ls: cannot access '/var/log/apache2': No such file or directory
17:23<r4fkramer>drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 478 Jul 3 15:18 /var/log
17:23<Walex>r4fkramer: that is impossible, it means there is no 'apache2' process.
17:23<Walex>r4fkramer: uh oh.
17:24<Walex>r4fkramer: that "." for '/var/log
17:24<Walex>r4fkramer: that "." for '/var/log
17:24<Walex>r4fkramer: that "." for '/var/log' is "interesting".
17:24<r4fkramer>What do you think about it now ?
17:24<Walex>ls -ltr /var/log/ | tail
17:25<r4fkramer>F S UID PID PPID C PRI NI ADDR SZ WCHAN TTY TIME CMD -> output for the command 'ps -l -C apache2'
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17:25<Walex>r4fkramer: so currently 'apache2' is not running at all.
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17:28<Walex>r4fkramer: have you enabled not AppArmor but SELinux?
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17:28<r4fkramer>I enabled SELinux some time ago, and disabled again.
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17:29<r4fkramer>Do you think there is any relation to this task I did before ?
17:29<Walex>r4fkramer: it could well be...
17:30<Walex>r4fkramer: just to be sure 'setenforce 0'
17:30<Walex>r4fkramer: what does that say?
17:30<r4fkramer>Oh, it will be disabled, but I will show you, just one moment, please
17:31<r4fkramer>setenforce: SELinux is disabled
17:31<r4fkramer>I never used getenforce again
17:31<Walex>mkdir -m 0775 /var/log/apache2; chown www-data:adm /var/log/apache2
17:32<r4fkramer>I had some tips about SELinux with ratrace before also
17:32<Walex>ls -ldn /var/log/apache2
17:32<r4fkramer>it should be better using apparmor in debian. Better SELinux in CentOS, Fedora or Rocky OS, but that's not my case - I always use Debian and Slack
17:34<Walex>did the 'mkdir' and 'chown' succeed?
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17:35<r4fkramer>Walex, applied permissions you told me too, and ls -ldn /var/log/apache2 -> drwxrwxr-x 1 33 4 0 Jul 3 18:33 /var/log/apache2
17:36<r4fkramer>yes, both them succeeded
17:36<Walex>r4fkramer: then 'systemctl start apache2'
17:36<Walex>lsof -c apache2 | grep -E -v ' (/lib|/usr/lib)'
17:36<Walex>ps -l -C apache2
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17:36<Walex>if the 'start' succeeds
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17:38<Walex>r4fkramer: so far so good.
17:38<Walex>r4fkramer: the logs are there.
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17:39<Walex>r4fkramer: paste also the content of '/var/log/apache2/error.log' after removing confidential strings pls.
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17:40<Walex>after that 'systemctl stop apache2'
17:40<Walex>ls -ldn /var/log/apache2
17:40<Walex>ls -ldn /var/log/apache2/*
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17:41<Walex>r4fkramer: goot, no errors.
17:43<r4fkramer>Please, Walex:
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17:43<r4fkramer>After stopping apache2 service
17:44<Walex>r4fkramer: so far so good, as if we create the directory logging works, and the files remain even if 'apache2' is stopped, so it is not removing them.
17:44<Walex>ls -ltrn /var/log/ | tail
17:44<r4fkramer>Walex, have you got any aspirine to send me ?
17:45<Walex>the above to check other log files are being done ok,
17:45<Walex>ls -ltrn /var/log/journal/ | tail
17:45<Walex>same for 'systemd' log
17:45<Walex>r4fkramer: can you easily reboot the system? (don't do it yet).
17:46<r4fkramer>Yes, normally debian reboots easily here
17:46<Walex>r4fkramer: as in, it is convenient to do it now? (don't do it yet)
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17:47<Walex>r4fkramer: all your other log files seem fine to me.
17:47<r4fkramer>I can do it now, if you consider it's necessary
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17:49<Walex>r4fkramer: so reboot into single user/rescue mode, and then do again: 'ls -ldn /var/log/apache2 /var/log/apache2/*' to check the files are still there
17:49<Walex>r4fkramer: after that you can continue the boot into full mode (e.g. 'systemctl isolate default') and check again that the log files are still there.
17:51<Walex>r4fkramer: if they disappear, it is important to know whether they were there in rescue/single user mode
17:51<Walex>r4fkramer: did the 'btrfs scrub' succeed?
17:51<r4fkramer>Ok Walex, just to inform you before: systemctl status continues displaying 'degraded' status - probably for audit service and other
17:52<Walex>r4fkramer: what did 'smartctl -l error /dev/...' say?
17:52<Walex>r4fkramer: so far so good.
17:53<r4fkramer>'smartctl -l error /dev/...?
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17:53<r4fkramer>bash: smartctl -l error /dev/...: No such file or directory
17:53<Walex>r4fkramer: the device name(s) of the '/' filesystem
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17:54<Walex>r4fkramer: also: btrfs dev stats /
17:54<Walex>r4fkramer: that lists also the device names
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17:57<Walex>smartctl -l error /dev/sda3
17:57<Walex>so far so good.
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17:58<r4fkramer>Oh, finally !:)
17:58<Walex>btrfs scrub status /
17:58<r4fkramer>No errors loggged
17:59<Walex>so far so good!
17:59<Walex>r4fkramer: so your hw is good.
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17:59<r4fkramer>hw - hardware ?
18:00<Walex>r4fkramer: now reboot into single user/rescue mode, and then do again: 'ls -ldn /var/log/apache2 /var/log/apache2/*' to check the files are still there
18:00<Walex>r4fkramer: and then check again once you are back in normal mode.
18:01<Walex>r4fkramer: it is quite important at this point that directory and files are still there in single user/rescue mode
18:01<r4fkramer>Ok Walex, can I show you after ?
18:01<Walex>yes, of course, just report what you saw.
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18:05<r4fkramer>Ok Walex, I will reboot now into single user/rescue mode to check if they are still there, and I'll be back here to show you output.
18:05<r4fkramer>Thank you very much for Great Support ! More than two hours trying to fix this issue !
18:05<Walex>r4fkramer: good!
18:06<r4fkramer>See you soon, rebooting here
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18:23<r4fkramer>Please Walex, here you are the output in user /rescue mode:
18:24<Walex>r4fkramer: that looks good indeed
18:24<r4fkramer>Photo is not so good, unfortunately, but I think it will be possible to check the output for the command you passed me
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18:24<Walex>do the same now that you are in full user mode
18:25<r4fkramer>Ok, just one moment, please.
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18:25<Walex>also: systemctl status apache2
18:25<r4fkramer>Yes, that was command I have in mind
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18:28<r4fkramer>Great, now it was started successfully, loaded and active !
18:29<Walex>r4fkramer: ahhhh but the files have disappeared again!
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18:29<r4fkramer>Walex - 'Debian Warrior stronger than steel' lol. Really thank you very much for Great Support !:) More than two hours we're hunting this "malware" ! lol
18:29<Walex>r4fkramer: so "something" deletes that directory *after* 'apache2' has started.
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18:30<Walex>r4fkramer: the directory is there at boot, is there when 'apache2' starts, but then disappears.
18:30<r4fkramer>Oh, Damn, in fact ! :(
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18:31<Walex>r4fkramer: find /etc -type f | xargs egrep var/log/apache
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18:31<Walex>r4fkramer: and we know that it is not 'apache2' that deletes it because we had restarted it and it was still there.
18:31<r4fkramer>In fact, I took a closer look here, and in fact, it's always the same recurring problem of 'disappearing under strange circumstances'
18:32<Walex>r4fkramer: find /etc -type f | xargs egrep var/log/apache
18:32<Walex>r4fkramer: ls -ltr /var/log | tail
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18:34<r4fkramer>'total 0' for the last command
18:34<Walex>r4fkramer: reaklly?
18:34<Walex>r4fkramer: are there *any* files in '/var/log/'?
18:35<r4fkramer>0 files
18:35<Walex>r4fkramer: so something really deletes stuff in '/var/log'
18:35<Walex>ls -ldn /var/log
18:35<r4fkramer>So, I'm really not able to undestand what's deleting them
18:36<r4fkramer>drwxr-xr-x. 1 0 0 0 Jul 3 19:16 /var/log
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18:36<Walex>r4fkramer: it is something perhaps in 'cron' or '/etc/rc.local', BUT the 'find' above did not find any signs
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18:37<Walex>r4fkramer: that '/var/log' is different from the one you had created earlier in both ownership and permissions.
18:38<r4fkramer>ls: cannot access '/etc/rc.local': No such file or directory
18:38<Walex>r4fkramer: so it is not just deleting the files in '/var/log', but deleting the whole directory, *after* 'apache2' starts.
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18:39<r4fkramer>Yes, but it's always the same issue: not only the files, but the whole directory disappears after reboot.
18:39<Sqrt{not}>what is in /etc/logrotate.d/apache2
18:39<r4fkramer>The same issue all the time
18:40<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: find /etc -type f | xargs egrep var/log
18:40<Walex>Sqrt{not}: also note the whole '/var/log' is deleted and recreated with different owner and permissions.
18:40<jmcnaught>(without apache2 this time)
18:41<Sqrt{not}>that is not the contents of /etc/logrotate.d/apache2 is it?
18:41<r4fkramer>Sqrt{not} here you are:
18:42<Walex>r4fkramer: just in case: lsof /var /var/log
18:42<Walex>r4fkramer: probably nothing has it open.
18:43<Walex>r4fkramer: as "jmcnaught" suggest: find /etc -type f | xargs egrep var/log
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18:45<r4fkramer>Please, Walex, jmcnaught and Sqrt{not}:
18:46<r4fkramer>output of command jmcnaught has passed me
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18:47<r4fkramer>Walex, the same output for 'lsof /var /var/log':
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18:48<Walex>r4fkramer: mkdir /var/log/MARKER
18:48<r4fkramer>done, Walex
18:49<Walex>r4fkramer: systemctl restart systemd-journald syslog
18:49<Walex>r4fkramer: ls -ltrn /var/log
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18:51<r4fkramer>MARKER is there
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18:52<Walex>systemctl status systemd-journald
18:52<Walex>but the 'journal' is not there, weird
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18:53<Walex>also: ls -ltr /var
18:54<Sqrt{not}>r4fkramer, did you say that you enabled SElinux at one time in the past, but now you don't use it anymore?
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18:54<Walex>r4fkramer: BTW your journal is not persistent, and probably it should be.
18:54<Walex>r4fkramer: but that's a side note.
18:55<Walex>r4fkramer: then let's do something that is a variant of a suggestion by "ratrace".
18:55<Walex>r4fkramer: chattr +i /var
18:56<r4fkramer>Sqrt{not} yes, I enabled it without more detailed configuration. After some hints given here, I disabled SELinux; now it continues disabled.
18:56<Walex>r4fkramer: after that reboot and look for error messages involving "var" or "var/log"
18:56<Walex>Sqrt{not}: SELinux has been verified disabled.
18:57<Sqrt{not}>there sure is a lot of leftover SElinux cruft in those logrotate directories
18:57<Walex>r4fkramer: chattr +i /var
18:57<r4fkramer>Walex, done here
18:58<r4fkramer>I will reboot again
18:58<Walex>r4fkramer: then just full reboot
18:59<r4fkramer>Ok. I'll be back in few minutes. Thank you very much for Great Support, Walex, jmcnaught and Sqrt{not} :)
18:59<Walex>r4fkramer: after that I have a foolproof method involving 'auditd', but for now it is interesting to see what happens with 'chattr +i /var'
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18:59<r4fkramer>Rebooting here - Ok Walex, let's check it first :)
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19:03<Sqrt{not}>There is also that SElinux "." on /var/log/ every time it gets recreated.
19:04<Walex>Sqrt{not}: SELinux tools are still installed, probably it relabels
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19:06<Epakai>anybody know how to eject/detach firewire drives? I tried eject command, udisksctl will unmount, udisksctl power-off only works on usb devices, it doesn't have the --detach command of old udisks
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19:07<Sqrt{not}>maybe "ls -ld --context /var/log" would give more info?
19:07<r4fkramer>Walex, Sqrt{not} and jmcnaught, the issue related to the three services persist:
19:08<Walex>r4fkramer: lsattr /var
19:08<Walex>ls -ldnZ /var/log
19:08<Walex>ls -ldnZ /var/log/*
19:08<r4fkramer>Sqrt{not}, here you are: drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root system_u:object_r:var_log_t:s0 326 Jul 3 20:01 /var/log
19:09<r4fkramer>Walex, the first output:
19:10<r4fkramer>The second one: drwxr-xr-x. 1 0 0 system_u:object_r:var_log_t:s0 326 Jul 3 20:01 /var/log
19:10<Walex>oops sorry I meant: lsattr -d /var
19:11<r4fkramer>The third one:
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19:11<r4fkramer>And the 4th: ----i----------------- /var
19:12<Walex>r4fkramer: so the 'chattr +i /var' succeeded in preventing the deletion of '/var/log'
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19:13<Walex>r4fkramer: so whatever is deleting '/var/log' is not clever enough to check for the immutability attribute.
19:15<Walex>vim r4fkramer now edit '/etc/audit/audit.conf' and change 'log_file' to be "/audit.log".
19:15<Walex>vr4fkramer now edit '/etc/audit/audit.conf' and change 'log_file' to be "/audit.log".
19:15<Walex>r4fkramer now edit '/etc/audit/audit.conf' and change 'log_file' to be "/audit.log".
19:15<r4fkramer>Yes, Walex, but do you have any ideal about why it isn't clever enough in this case /
19:15<Walex>r4fkramer: it is either a poorly written hack or something misconfigured
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19:16<Walex>r4fkramer: just deleting the whole log directory is also a sign that if it is hack it is poorly written.
19:16<Walex>r4fkramer: it is more likely it is some misconfiguration.
19:16<Walex>r4fkramer: also do: dmesg | grep /var
19:17<Walex>r4fkramer: and: journalctl -b | grep /var
19:17<Walex>r4fkramer: and: grep /var /var/log/*
19:17<r4fkramer>Sure, agree about the second hypothesis
19:17<Walex>r4fkramer: change the last to: grep var/log /var/log/*
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19:18<Walex>r4fkramer: but the fact that 'var/log' gets recreated is a bad sign, unless this is done by the "restore" function of SELinux.
19:18<ratrace>that chattr thing is only a half measure, if nothing complains loudly in the logs, you'll have to put an auditctl rule on it to catch the PID tryna delete it
19:18<r4fkramer>dmesg | grep /var - no output
19:18<Walex>ratrace: that is being prepared
19:21<Walex>there is a little subtlety there, not much
19:22<Walex>r4fkramer: have you edited '/etc/audit/auditd.conf'
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19:25<r4fkramer>Yes, Walex, but how should it happen if SELinux was disabled before these procedures we've been doing here ?
19:25<r4fkramer>Any restore function from a disabled SELinux ?
19:26<Walex>r4fkramer: now put into '/etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules' this:
19:26<r4fkramer>Let me check here, Walex, not sure
19:27<Walex>r4fkramer: SELinux in the kernel is disabled, but there are SELinux tools at user level that can restore SELinux attributes.
19:27<r4fkramer>Is that possible ?
19:28<Walex>r4fkramer: systemctl list-unit-files | grep selinux
19:28<r4fkramer>Whould you like to have a look into /etc/audit/auditd.conf first ?
19:28<Walex>r4fkramer: as in 'selinux-autorelabel'
19:29<Walex>r4fkramer: the only change needed in '/etc/audit/auditd.conf' is the path of the log file, but you can as well do 'pastebinit /etc/audit/auditd.conf' do double check.
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19:30<r4fkramer>Ok, so let me continue here, using the paste you gave me.
19:30<Walex>me is really annoyed that "-a always,exclude -F exe=/usr/bin/dpkg" does not seem to work.
19:30*Walex is really annoyed that "-a always,exclude -F exe=/usr/bin/dpkg" does not seem to work.
19:31*Walex actually... has not checked in the last 2-3 years whether that has been fixed.
19:31<ratrace>iirc half of those options aren't even needed
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19:31<ratrace>those three -S suffice, infact, unlink only, you just need one trail listing the subject PID
19:31<r4fkramer>Walex, done here
19:32<Walex>ratrace: better more than less.
19:32<ratrace>... which could be transient, so perhaps something based on inotifywait + ps dump might have more effect. but let's see this first
19:32<gordreturns>Is it possible, or even a good idea, to stay on a stable release like Buster, but keep systemd up to date?
19:32<gordreturns>would that increase or decrease stability? Probablyh the latter, right?
19:33<Walex>r4fkramer: now: systemctl restart auditd; systemctl status autditd
19:33<Walex>r4fkramer: if that succeeds, reboot again.
19:33<ratrace>gordreturns: newer versions might require newer kernels
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19:34<gordreturns>Ah, that makes sense
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19:34<ratrace>gordreturns: and that might not necessarily be accounted for via backports. there's no such guarantee
19:34<r4fkramer>Walex, it's not so good:
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19:35<gordreturns>Is there a convenient place to read about "known issues" with Buster, or any given release? Something that curates the info. Or do you have to troll the bug tracker?
19:35<ratrace>r4fkramer: really? copypasting without thinking?
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19:35<Walex>r4fkramer: it worked here...
19:35<ratrace>%s/troll/stalk/ and yes :)
19:35<gordreturns>I'm building an embedded system image based on Buster. I'm new to Debian, a recent convert from Ubuntu Server.
19:35<ratrace>Walex: s/he copied your typo ... :/
19:36<Walex>ah yes.
19:36<Walex>r4fkramer: now: systemctl restart auditd; systemctl status auditd
19:36<ratrace>gordreturns: buster is a grampa now, obsoleted in a few weeks, ded in a few months, undead and re-killed in a few years when even the LTS intravenous drip stops
19:36<Walex>r4fkramer: also: pastebinit /etc/audit/auditd.conf
19:37<Walex>r4fkramer: also: pastebinit /etc/audit/audit.rules
19:37<Walex>if you don't have it: apt install pastebinit
19:37<r4fkramer>ratrace, Much of the process carried out by Walex I did not know about it yet, and it is not now that I will be able to assimilate everything, over 3 hours of applied procedures; tired here.
19:37<gordreturns>ratrace: it's not a desktop, just an embedded system with no network access (no security concerns). So what you said sounds a lot like "as battletested as a Debian release can possibly be" :) As long as apt still works, I'm good.
19:38<r4fkramer>ratrace, I don't understand the reason for this type of moral aggression now....
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19:38<Walex>r4fkramer: don't worry about that.
19:38<r4fkramer>I will install it here , Walex
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19:40<ratrace>r4fkramer: a) you're not learning b) this takes much longer because you're not doing this consciously and understanding what's being done and why
19:40<ratrace>if you're tired, then stop and continue when you're not
19:40<Walex>ratrace: that's very common on IRC
19:40<ratrace>and the "moral agression" is there because people like that run public servers which then become parts of botnets and then I have to deal with resulting attacks launched from such machines
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19:41<Walex>ratrace: I may have already mentioned in the past as to botnets the scifi novel "Distraction" by Bruce Sterling, it is also very good
19:43<Walex>part of the plot is that botnets evolve into sentient AIs and hire mafia assassins to kill the sysadms trying to shut them down :-)
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19:43<r4fkramer>Nor would it be possible to assimilate everything now. I'm trying to understand as much as possible, and as I see Walex's effort and dedication, I didn't feel entitled to interrupt the Support of a Person who has been dedicating themselves for so long to help me.
19:43<r4fkramer>If I did this, I wouldn't see myself being very polite, as it's not often that someone tries so hard to help someone else like Walex has been doing here with me for over 3 hours.
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19:44<Walex>r4fkramer: so do those two 'pastebinit' so I can check the config
19:44<ratrace>r4fkramer: then at least pay him/her the respect by not copypasting blindly and spotting typo so obvious, it's visible from the moon
19:45*Walex has been watching Viki/Netflix in the meantime...
19:46<ratrace>rmrfnopreserverootforwardslash to start an AI program that autodetects and resolves issues....
19:46<ratrace>someone could've done that in a less joking, more trolly form....
19:47<Walex>r4fkramer: also: pastebinit /etc/audit/auditd.conf
19:47<Walex>r4fkramer: also: pastebinit /etc/audit/audit.rules
19:48<gordreturns>what's r4fkramer trying to do? Just a simple summary, out of curiosity
19:48<r4fkramer>ratrace, I'm not acting blind, I'm responding to Support requests from someone trying to help me solve an old problem. Would it be polite of me to simply ignore the request of someone who asks Me to apply the procedures and I do?
19:48<r4fkramer>You are not in a position to tell me about attitudes of respecting or not respecting someone, because your attitude is not respectful: it is aggressive and negative.
19:48<r4fkramer>Please let me continue procedures with Walex. If you can't or don't want to help me, please don't bother me.
19:48<r4fkramer>Sorry Walex, let me continue now
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19:49<r4fkramer>Walex, please:
19:50<Walex>gordreturns: on reboot, */var/log' gets deleted and replaced with an empty directory, but not on rescue/single user reboot, and it happens after 'apache2' has started, and is prevented by making '/var' immutable.
19:50<r4fkramer>Please, Walex:
19:50<Walex>gordreturns: since '/var/log' gets whacked, some services fail to start.
19:51<Walex>gordreturns: we have checked and it is not a storage issue or a logrotate issue (and IIRC "ratrace" has checked it is not a "tmpfiles" one)
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19:52<Walex>r4fkramer: in '/etc/audit/auditd.conf' please change line 7 "log_file = /var/log/audit/audit.log" to "log_file = /audit.log"
19:53<Walex>r4fkramer: and also delete all lines after line 40, that all lines that follow "plugin_dir = /etc/audit/plugins.d"
19:53<r4fkramer>Ok, just one moment, please, and Thank you very much again for attention :)
19:54<gordreturns>sounds major. So how do you approach this? is there a list of all non-default/modifications made to the system (assuming Buster)?
19:54<Walex>r4fkramer: after that do this:
19:54<Walex>wget -O /tmp/audit.rules
19:54<gordreturns>which reminds me, I gotta add etckeeper to my buster image
19:55<Walex>cp /tmp/audit.rules /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules
19:55<Walex>systemctl auditd restart
19:55<Walex>systemctl auditd status
19:56<gordreturns>I think this would make your collab more efficient . Doesn't require an account.
19:56<ratrace>gordreturns: "how do you approach this?" you define a security policy and then observe who or what breaks on it
19:56<gordreturns>ratrace: using auditd?
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19:58<ratrace>gordreturns: among other tools, yes.
19:58<gordreturns>had never heard of it before, seems interesting. I'll add it to my "to learn" list. Is this something a power user (not Linux admin) can learn in an afternoon?
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19:58<Walex>gordreturns: "ratrace" has also suggested using 'iwatch' or 'inotifywatch'
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19:58<gordreturns>I've used inotifywatch (inotifytools) before, I'll look up iwatch
19:58<ratrace>gordreturns: more or less, the concepts are simple
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20:00<ratrace>it's userland tool for kernel's audit subsystem, so you can put rules on subject-object-action relationships that then get logged as audit trails.
20:00<Sqrt{not}>Walex that wget command includes lots of html cruft into the resulting file
20:00<Walex>Sqrt{not}: ah yes
20:01<quadrat>i'm really invested in seeing the the fix for r4fkramer's issue xD
20:01<r4fkramer>Please Walex, are you sure it's 'systemctl auditd restart' ? Its output is strange: 'Unknown command verb auditd.'
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20:02<Walex>r4fkramer: actualla please redo with: wget -O /tmp/audit.rules
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20:03<Walex>r4fkramer: then: cp /tmp/audit.rules /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules
20:03<r4fkramer>done here
20:03<Walex>r4fkramer: then: systemctl restart auditd
20:03<Walex>r4fkramer: then: systemctl status auditd
20:03<r4fkramer>quadrat, almost four hours without interruption
20:03<quadrat>r4fkramer yes I know, read the backlog
20:04<Walex>quadrat: a hack would be to keep the 'chattr +i /var' but that would limit future options...
20:06<gordreturns>Any estimate on when we will get the conclusion to this saga? I got work to do, but I also want to know what the issue is :)
20:06<gordreturns>auditd will definitely pinpoint the culprit, right?
20:07<Walex>gordreturns: maybe not in a useful way.
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20:07<ratrace>gordreturns: at this pace, I doubt we will
20:07<r4fkramer>Walex, sadly it's not working:Job for auditd.service failed because the control process exited with error code.
20:08<gordreturns>out of curiosity, is this a heavily modified system? I mean, statistically speaking, it must be a user error, or some out of band package, right?
20:08<ratrace>gordreturns: the audit trail logs the subject PID. if that's a transient process, then an inotifywatch script dumping active pids might be required
20:08<ratrace>gordreturns: it's PEBKAC of epic proportions
20:08<gordreturns>cause as ratrace said "Buster is ancient", i.e. battle-tested
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20:08<r4fkramer>The same issue of before; when I use 'systemctl restart auditd' again, is the same issue: no such file or directory - failed
20:09<Walex>r4fkramer: pastebinit /etc/audit/auditd.conf
20:09<Walex>r4fkramer: pastebinit /etc/audit/audit.rules
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20:10<gordreturns>I say give Walex a link, and let him investigate faster
20:10<gordreturns>(assuming it's your personal system)
20:10<gordreturns>he spent 3 hours helping you, he's not gonna botnet you
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20:11<gordreturns>also give us a read-only link, so we can watch
20:12*Walex just checked and "-a always,exclude -F exe=/usr/bin/dpkg" is still not working
20:14<Walex>r4fkramer: pastebinit /etc/audit/auditd.conf
20:14<Walex>r4fkramer: pastebinit /etc/audit/audit.rules
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20:15<gordreturns>btw I hate that typical Linux brevity in the auditd config. It's a config file, why treat it like an interactive bash session and use short-hand flags instead of long descriptive english words?
20:15<Walex>gordreturns: that's what comments are for.
20:15<gordreturns>but no one's ever writing comments
20:16<Walex>gordreturns: except me :-)
20:16<r4fkramer>Walex, please:
20:16<gordreturns>like "-w /var/www -p wa" , how hard would it have been to make this "on-write /var/www -whatever-pmeans write-append" (I know that 2nd part isn't true, just saying, this makes more sense than short-hand)
20:17<Walex>r4fkramer: in line 7 of '/etc/audit/auditd.conf' pleae change it from "log_file = /audit/audit.log" to "log_file = /audit.log"
20:17<Walex>r4fkramer: also please ensure that you have done this:
20:18<r4fkramer>I've done these changes before in '/etc/audit/auditd.conf'. Another change ?
20:19<r4fkramer>Let me check here, Walex.
20:19<gordreturns>What's the performance impact of auditd on a server?
20:19<Walex>r4fkramer: wget -O /tmp/audit.files
20:19<r4fkramer>yes, I've done it already
20:20<Walex>r4fkramer: cp /tmp/audit.files /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules
20:20<Walex>r4fkramer: please check that /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules has the content of
20:20<Walex>r4fkramer: then: systemctl restart auditd
20:20<Walex>r4fkramer: then: systemctl status auditd
20:21<r4fkramer>And deleted from line 40 onwards
20:21<Walex>(third attempt to get this done correctly...)
20:21<Walex>r4fkramer: yes, you forgot tht too.
20:21<Walex>or maybe not.
20:22<gordreturns>ratrace: let's say you get a transient PID, is there some Linux command you can run to get the process for a previously running PID? You mentioned adding a script, but isn't there something like this by default in systemd or whatever?
20:22<Walex>r4fkramer: you did not forget that.
20:22<Walex>gordreturns: sysacct process accounting
20:22<gordreturns>thanks walex
20:23<Walex>gordreturns: it can log every process with exec path and pid.
20:23<Walex>gordreturns: it used to be activated standard on UNIX machines because many had chargeable CPU time.
20:24<gordreturns>hmm, got any one-liners handy?
20:24<Walex>gordreturns: for what?
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20:26<gordreturns>"get the process name (binary/script path) that used PID 123 which is no longer running"
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20:26<gordreturns>Seems like process accounting is a lot more than that...possibly more than a normal person wants
20:26<Walex>gordreturns: 'accton on'
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20:28<Walex>gordreturns: 'dump-acct | grep ...'
20:29<r4fkramer>Please Walex, the issue persists here:cp: 'cannot stat '/tmp/audit.files': No such file or directory' the output of 'cp /tmp/audit.files /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules'
20:29<Walex>r4fkramer: wget -O /tmp/audit.files
20:30<Walex>r4fkramer: did that succeed?
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20:30*Walex is agreeing more with "ratrace"'s comments
20:30<Walex>r4fkramer: again: please check that /etc/audit/rules.d/audit.rules has the content of
20:31<ratrace>you're a grown person, I suppose, and can recognize when the effort becomes a monumental time waste futility :)
20:31<r4fkramer>I've done it, but the same issue persist (no such file or directory), so I can't restart auditd service.
20:31<Walex>r4fkramer: are you visually impaired and are reading the screen through a vocalizer/screen reader?
20:31<gordreturns>Allright, got it working. "accton on", then whenever a process exits, it's logged, so you can "dump-acct /var/log/account/pacct | grep TARGETPID"
20:32<Walex>gordreturns: grep -w TARGETPID might be more precise
20:32<r4fkramer>A bit visual impaired, yes, difficult to read these lines for such long time, I spend effort to type correctly, so it's not being typed wrongly
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20:33<Walex>r4fkramer: I think you are skippint not characters, but whole lines...
20:33<gordreturns>example line: "nc |v3| 0.00| 0.00| 2147.00| 0| 0| 2288.00| 0.00| 1985| 1959| | 1|pts/0 |Sat Jul 3 20:30:21 2021" , 1985 is nc's PID, 1959 is the parent process (my bash session).
20:34<gordreturns>r4fkramer: is this a personal system or a work one? If the former, could you give access to the shell to Walex? There's convenient tools to do it without dealing with firewalls/networking, like which I've linked twic3e.
20:35<Walex>gordreturns: if would be good enough if "r4fkramer" did not skip lines and checked the outcome of commands...
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20:36<r4fkramer>Walex, I'm doing exactly what You tell me, but the problem is apparently much more difficult to solve than we thought.
20:36<Walex>r4fkramer: you are *trying* to do what I tell you.
20:36<ratrace>it's actually easier, but requires understanding the steps taken...
20:37<Walex>r4fkramer: we have spent half an hour just trying to get a line changed in one file and replace the content of another file with the content of a paste.
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20:37<Walex>r4fkramer: there is nothing difficult about that,
20:37<gordreturns>I've been here for 1 hour and as soon as I joined Walex was telling you how to apply that audit rules file
20:38<gordreturns>At some point, out of respect for people's time, it's good to give up and look for more efficient approaches, such as giving him shell access
20:39<r4fkramer>Walex, if I were still sending You briefings on the procedures You give me, You would conclude that I am doing exactly what You ask Me to do.
20:39<r4fkramer>But, I feel it's time to stop these attempts, because I've even started to bully me around here because of it.
20:39<ratrace>assuming Walex even wants to. I wouldn't I draw a line between free, volunteered support on irc and getting my hands dirty. I do the latter for 200€/hr, 500€ initial
20:39<gordreturns>I'm not trying to bully you, I'm giving you the advice I'd follow myself in your situation
20:39<jmcnaught>Did root's crontab get checked? Maybe an @reboot rule?
20:39<gordreturns>we all want to know what's wrong with your system
20:40<r4fkramer>I understood you gordeturns, appreciate your point of view :)
20:40<Walex>BTW I have just noticed that it is nearly 3am here and I am really sleepy, so it is hard to focus. I'll be back tomorrow.
20:41<gordreturns>if you would at least provide a read-only view of your (which tmate does...when you run it, it prints 2 URLs: 1 where people can write, 1 where people can read only. So if you gave the read-only link, Walex can spot typos/issues, and no one can type anything on your system to compromise it
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20:42<ratrace>now I have to question why you pushing that tmate thingy which, until now, I don't think I ever heard of
20:42-!-Walex is now known as Walex_away
20:42<r4fkramer>gordreturns, I would give shell access to Walex, if he wanted, but it's embarrassing for Me to ask such a thing, after all, I'm not paying Walex for it. Unless Walex stipulates a payment.
20:43<gordreturns>ratrace: I found out about it last month, it's been a god-send for doing pair work with someone in a different country, while I'm at work where everything is firewalled . It was very convenient for interactive support sessions . Plus, free and open-source,
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20:44<ratrace>"fork of tmux"
20:44<gordreturns>What I like is that it's zero-setup (other than you installing No accounts, no BS. And both of you connecting are connecting out to's relay server, so it bypasses network restrictions. And by default it's not a security risk, ujnless you choose to share the writable link (it prints 2 ssh links)
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20:45<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: can you check "crontab -l" as root?
20:46<r4fkramer>ratrace, since You consider helping someone to 'get your hands dirty', I suggest that You worry more about your mind, which seems to me to be a lot dirtier than I could imagine, as this type of aggressive behavior of Yours is destructive is something that frightens...
20:46<r4fkramer>Even if I disrespect someone, which is not the case, You should not allow yourself to act in such an ignorant and brutal way....
20:46-!-dekkard [~Michael@2600:1702:43d0:3e90:721a:4ff:fe37:84a] has quit []
20:46<ratrace>r4fkramer: learn english please, and what "getting hands dirty" means.
20:47<gordreturns>getting hands dirty = working on something by doing a deep dive into it
20:47<r4fkramer>Thank you very much for attention and Great Support, Walex, really appreciate your effort on helping me ! God Bless You :)
20:47<ratrace>r4fkramer: second, you don't get to preach anything. you should be banned from running public servers until you got a first clue about running public servers. but hey, it's not up to me.
20:47<ratrace>it's really impressive Walex had such patience. but hey, it's his/her time to lose.
20:48<gordreturns>he was watching Netflix :)
20:50<gordreturns>ratrace: I'm at work so I can't give you access (you're no Walex after all!) , but I'm setting up a VM and will send you a link so ytou can see
20:51<ratrace>gordreturns: no need. :) I can imagine what a fork of tmux does with an interim service. I've shared tmux sessions before.
20:51<r4fkramer>ratrace, You must be very upset, I don't understand why you are so aggressive.
20:51<r4fkramer>You have already helped me several times, been very attentive on other occasions, and today you are behaving in this way.
20:51<r4fkramer>If You used an idiom not yet known to me, even so, You have been simply being aggressive and destructive for some time now.
20:51<r4fkramer>Walex wasted no time with me, as I will always be grateful to Him for the kind gesture he gave me, with such attention and for so long.
20:51<r4fkramer>And another: all Support is recorded here; I'm going to read these subjects and get back to practicing, while trying to read more about the core concepts of 'systemd'.
20:51-!-r4fkramer was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
20:51<gordreturns>and justice for all
20:52<gordreturns>he's very long-winded for a non-native english speaker
20:52<quadrat>i am really astonished that Walex took his time with him
20:53<ratrace>I think curiosity about WTH removed apache logdir on boot drove him/her, lol
20:53<quadrat>i guess so
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20:54<ratrace>r4fkramer: if you were doing this on a non-public-server machine, for learning or personal purposes, I would have zero objections. but you're running a public server and you don't have the decency to at least READ and understand the commands you're being given.
20:54<ratrace>THAT is why I'm like this. when noobs go out on public internet servers and run them like toys.
20:54<r4fkramer>Walex, gordreturns, jmcnaught, quadrat, thank you very much for attention and Great Support !
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20:54<ratrace>and then your server will get pwnt, and it will kill someone by ddosing some medical equipment
20:55<gordreturns>ratrace: what about thew people with medical equipment on the internet, how is it not their fault
20:55<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: can you check "crontab -l" as root?
20:56<ratrace>jmcnaught: I think they went through crontabs and rc.local even
20:56<ratrace>it's way up in the scroll, near the beginning, I think
20:56<jmcnaught>ratrace: "/lastlog crontab" came up empty for me, that's why I asked
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20:58<r4fkramer>ratrace, don't judge me, for I tried to follow as much as possible what Walex told me to - Walex told me to apply several commands, in a fast rhythm. Don't tell me about "decency, being decent, etc", not you....
20:58<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, no crontab here, that's the output
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20:59<gordreturns>I'm the one who mentioned that decency stuff ("out of respect for people's time, let's be more efficient"), dont think ratrace did
20:59<r4fkramer>I must go now, ratrace would kill me now, if he could.
21:00<ratrace>r4fkramer: I will judge you alright. I judge all the people who run public servers.
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21:00<bremner>ratrace: r4fkramer: please drop it
21:00<bremner>it's not going anywhere
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21:01<gordreturns>ratrace: OK, here we go. r4fkramer , you read this too. . This is all I had to do. Now I'm PMing ratrace the writable links that tmate printed.
21:01<r4fkramer>gordreturns I respect people's time, I just accepted Walex Support, and thought it should not be polite refuse his continuous effort on helping me. That's why I continued here, despite the fact I was very tired.
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21:02<ratrace>gordreturns: don't think that'll work, I have a policy ban on PMs :) but I understand how that works. I used tmux in shared sessions, so this is basically that, but through an intermediary ssh service
21:03<gordreturns>ratrace: right. But the convenience/ease of use is great for people asking for support here
21:03<ratrace>the only problem is security concerns
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21:03<gordreturns>Sure. But if someone in #debian helps me for 3 hours and I'm pasting what they say generally I trust them enough, at least with my own server.
21:03<quadrat>gordreturns hm, my websession works, ssh doesn't ;)
21:04<ratrace>I would never allow that on servers I maintain, and I could never ask anyone to use that service, or else I'd consider myself responsible if they got hacked because the intermediary was malicious
21:04<quadrat>ahh thanks works, but looks weird, as the command line start in the middle of the screen
21:04<gordreturns>quadrat: want a writable link?
21:04<quadrat>nope ;)
21:04<bremner>debug-me is an option in debian with a different security model
21:05<gordreturns>I think what is missing, is a "read-only except ask me for specific commands". So people type commands, it prompts the host to approve y/n.
21:06<gordreturns>that would be the best marriage of security and convenience
21:06<ratrace>gordreturns: the problem might not be the person you give access to , but potentially malicious intermediary server
21:07<r4fkramer>Bremner, out of respect for You, I will not continue here now.
21:07<r4fkramer>I've always been very well treated around here, although there are always exceptions.
21:07<r4fkramer>Bremner, out of respect for You, I will not continue here now.
21:07<r4fkramer>I've always been very well treated around here, although there are always exceptions.
21:07<gordreturns>sure...but in your case, you can simply self-host, and specify a URL like "tmate --forgottheflag"
21:07<r4fkramer>For You, not for ratrace, which seems to be full of fury in the soul, I'm leaving
21:07<r4fkramer>ratrace, You may even think you can judge me - but, I will never accept the "judgment" of a person who loses his mind and acts like a pit bull against someone who has never lacked politeness around here. Goodnight.
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21:08<gordreturns>man he's oldschool
21:08<bremner>OT: some pitbulls are super nice
21:08<gordreturns>bremner: so are tigers
21:08<bremner>gordreturns: no personal experience with tigers
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21:10<ratrace>one day s/he will be in charge of big business networks and s/he'll see all the ddos, probing, hacking attempts, daily attacks.... and the s/he will say "my gods! ratrace was right!" :)
21:11<gordreturns>no he won't. He won't even notice the server being taken over.
21:11<gordreturns> is what changed my mind about pitbulls
21:12<gordreturns>dragging a full grown adult by biting him in the shoulder, and dragging him, like a predator drag its prey
21:12<gordreturns>while all adults around them can't do anything to stop it
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21:27<sychill>,v mythtv
21:27<judd>Package: mythtv on amd64 -- stretch-multimedia: 0.28.2-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 30.0+fixes20210328.git7d297b1fb8-dmo0+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 1:31.0+fixes20210614.git0680b37c68-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:31.0+fixes20210614.git0680b37c68-dmo1
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21:34<sychill>,v mysql
21:34<judd>No package named 'mysql' was found in amd64.
21:34<sney>,v mysql-server
21:34<judd>Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.5.62-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 8.0.23-3
21:34<sney>ofc it's mariadb now
21:35<sychill>ah, i wondered that.
21:36<sychill>the pkg description for mariadb-client-core-10.5 makes no mention of mysql, but it's the one pkg that has the mysql executable
21:37<sney>look at the Conflicts field
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21:40<sychill>interesting.. those are all "not real packages"
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21:45<sney>those old mysql-client packages? yeah, they come up as "virtual" because they aren't in buster. but they're included in that field, so that the mariadb-client package can't be installed alongside mysql-client, because they're effectively the same thing.
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