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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-05

---Logopened Mon Jul 05 00:00:35 2021
---Daychanged Mon Jul 05 2021
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00:00-!-strugee is "AJ Jordan" on #tor-project #tor-dev #debian #https-everywhere #debian-next
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03:41<vetrivelmuruan>hi
03:41<vetrivelmuruan>can i get some information about debain edu
03:41<ratrace>!ask
03:41<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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03:42<vetrivelmuruan>how can i skip bootloader installation in debain installation
03:42<orbatos[m]>vetrivelmuruan: what are you wondering about?
03:43<vetrivelmuruan>how can i skip bootloader installation in dabain installation
03:44<amacater>Why would you _want_ to skip a bootloader?
03:44<vetrivelmuruan>dualbooting
03:44<orbatos[m]>with what os?
03:44<ratrace>vetrivelmuruan: doesn't the installer offer that option during grub installation questions?
03:44<orbatos[m]>windows?
03:44<orbatos[m]>ratrace: pretty sure it does
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03:45<amacater>OK, so if you want to dual boot, you have to let Grub find the other OS and let it work like that.
03:45-!-rpittau|afk is now known as rpittau
03:45<vetrivelmuruan>its not showing
03:45<vetrivelmuruan>i have expirence in ubiquity
03:45<Fraggle2>windows is not showing in grub? install os-prober
03:45<ratrace>vetrivelmuruan: something like this? didn't see it? https://i.stack.imgur.com/aP3y8.png
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03:46<ratrace>vetrivelmuruan: Is that windows 10? and... you never confirmed if it _was_ windows
03:46<vetrivelmuruan>i am dual booting with debain+Pixel and Mx linux
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03:47<orbatos[m]>so you already have grub installed
03:47<vetrivelmuruan>its not windows
03:47<vetrivelmuruan>i hate windows
03:47<vetrivelmuruan>i use wine
03:47<vetrivelmuruan>yes i have grub installed
03:47<ratrace>so in those cases you'd have to designate ONE distro to be the grub manager, and deinstall/not-install grub on others
03:47<amacater>OK - so you have to choose one of those to use grub.
03:48<vetrivelmuruan>thank you
03:48<orbatos[m]>since grub will find both operating systems It's rarely an issue of management, reinstalling it won't hurt
03:48<amacater>Or you can, actually chainload grub - so you could have a stanza in mxlinux to boot Debian and one in Debian to boot mxlinux
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03:49<ratrace>vetrivelmuruan: the debian installer offers the screen to select _where_ to install grub _loader_, you can skip that, I suppose, I never tried installing without grub outside of debootstrap. but you can always later uninstall grub-pc and/or grub-efi and let another distro manage those
03:49<vetrivelmuruan>thank you
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03:49<ratrace>orbatos[m]: that's not entriely true. different distros may have different optinions and defaults for grub. for example color, and kernel command line options, and ....
03:50<ratrace>optinions = options + opinions ; totally not a typo :))
03:50<vetrivelmuruan>debain installer is messy ,anyhow thank you for the help
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03:51<jm_>how exactly is it messy? it's pretty straightforward
03:51<orbatos[m]>ratrace: sure
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03:52<ratrace>what is really messy is grub-pc loader in multiboot environments. EFI is kinda godsent in that situation, despite it requiring *gag* fat32
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03:55<orbatos[m]>yeah, that's pretty irritating
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03:58<Fraggle2>I guess at the time of EFI design, fat32 was the lowest common standard that "every" OS supported.
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04:01<ratrace>and probably simplest for early stages bios/bootloader code that has to find tiny spaces
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04:31<vv221[BI]>Fraggle2, at the time of EFI design I highly doubt more open standards like UDF were not available already ;)
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04:36<ansgar>vv221[BI]: They need to be implemented too. Linux only has read-only support for UDF 2.60 (from 2005) says Wikipedia.
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04:36<ansgar>And EFI implementations can support other filesystem types too. I think there are several implementations that support at least NTFS too.
04:37<vv221[BI]>I would need to check what us the default UDF version used by Linux here, I'm sure it has read-write support since this is what I use on any removable storage device.
04:38<vv221[BI]>*what is the default
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04:39<ansgar>It has write support for even more ancient versions (from the year 2000).
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04:54<global_elites>hi
04:55<global_elites> trying to live-build an iso image - does anyone know the package to include for non-free wifi adapter drivers?
04:56<jm_>there isn't just one package
04:58<global_elites>Ah ok
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07:56<ubbuntiti>is it secure to run win10 on debian as virtual machine?
07:56<koollman_>what would 'secure' mean, in this context ?
07:56<ubbuntiti>does my virtual machine has access to my machine?
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07:57<spine-o-saurus>win10 will know it is being run in a vm
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07:58<ubbuntiti>all right
07:58<spine-o-saurus>so when it phones home it will be able to connect to the companies
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07:59<grove>I have no idea which technologies allow you to run win10 as a guest but what the guest has access to depends on the technology (and how it's configured)
08:01<ubbuntiti>yes
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08:01<ubbuntiti>I know
08:02<ubbuntiti>however it does not install win10
08:02<ubbuntiti>I'll try win7
08:02<koollman_>ubbuntiti: it shouldn't get access to your machine, although there could be various exploits on kvm. And of course, it would get access to some network so you have to be careful how you setup the network part
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08:03<jm_>i run win10 via kvm and it works just fine
08:03<Fraggle2>ubbuntiti: win10 runs very well with qemu/kvm
08:04<Fraggle2>and win7 is everything else than secure (in case you want to put the VM online)
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08:09<koollman_>I mean, you are asking about running unknown code in a vm, so all the usual warnings apply :)
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08:10<deb>!reinstall
08:10<dpkg>from memory, reinstall is aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>.
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08:11<deb>What ?
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08:17<deb>When i boot into debian 11 it let's me pick: kali gnu/linux, with Linux 5.10.0- kali7 - amd64 but I can't remember installing a kali gnu ?
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08:18<deb>And when I pick that it just shows me the loading screen
08:18<petn-randall>deb: You 100% sure installed Kali at some point. This isn't what comes from Debian.
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08:19<Fraggle2>If you don't want the kali and are going to reinstall anyway, just let the debian installer take 100% of the disk
08:19<deb>Can I get rid of kali without reinstalling ?
08:19<towo^work>no
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08:20<jm_>if it's EFI boot it might be just a matter of changing the default boot entry
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08:21<Fraggle2>you could delete the kali partition(s) and reinstall grub
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08:22<deb>Cmos fail AB
08:22<deb>Ok how can I reinstall ? I don't quite get dpkg
08:23<jm_>boot from install media
08:24<Fraggle2>"cmos fail ab" does not make much sense but sounds like a hardware related message
08:24<quadrat>deb the instructions dpkg gave you, is for getting the packages you manually installed, backing them up in a txt file, so you can reinstall them after your OS reinstallation. the other part is about apt reinstall, which reinstalls packages
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08:36<grove>And use official Debian install media, not something kali has corrupted
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08:44<petn-randall>Kali has it's use, but 9 out of 10 times it's clueless skript kiddies installing it and getting lost into this support channel.
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09:14<otisolsen70>Is there a midi program available in debian repos from which I can interface with my digital piano? (Connected via USB)
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09:16<towo^work>otisolsen70, rosegarden?
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09:17<otisolsen70>towo^work, looks promising. Do I typically need any kind of special drivers?
09:17<towo^work>mormaly not
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09:26<otisolsen70>towo^work, ok
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11:27<otisolsen70>towo^work, rosegarden was exactly what I needed. Thanks for the tip!
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12:53<gordreturns>ratrace: was there a conclusion to that r4f guy with the /var issue the other day?
12:53<gordreturns>after he left in a puff
12:56<sney>no, he'll just come back in a month or so with a different problem
12:57<gordreturns>oh well
12:57<NthDegree>yeah, folks don't realise Kali is essentially "Debian Unstabler"
12:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 1011] by debhelper
12:58<NthDegree>I can't even use it to write reports/notes while on the go because something is always broken outside of its usual use case
12:58<vv221[BI]>Good thing then that no one is ever trying to use it outside of its scope ;P
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12:59<zleap>i am trying to find the iso download for debian 11
12:59<zleap>testing
13:00<NthDegree>hahaha, when I'm running around testing CCTV/BMS/crap networks I don't wanna carry two laptops
13:00<sney>zleap: debian.org/devel/debian-installer
13:00<NthDegree>zleap, look at the weekly isos for testing
13:00<zleap>thanks
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13:01<zleap>it should be stable enough to just install it
13:01<NthDegree>zleap, I'm talking to you from Bullseye (testing) now with a full desktop
13:02<zleap>:)
13:02<zleap>i got a 500gb hard disk yesterday
13:02<NthDegree>apart from a Secure Boot issue (which is on me due to dual booting) and needing to use Google Chrome rather than Chromium due to a bug in 90.x I don't have any other major issues
13:02<zleap>so I intend to install on that
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13:10<sarvad>NthDegree : I am using Brave browser Version 1.26.74 Chromium: 91.0.4472.124 (Official Build) (64-bit) on Sid and it seems ok so far. You can give Brave a shot in Bullseye, if you want to move away from Google Chrome.
13:11<sarvad>Brave doesn't track most of the crap as Chrome does.
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13:15<gordreturns>why not move to Firefox?
13:16<gordreturns>I have no issue with Brave but Firefox is the only mainstream browser that gives extention devs low-level access (even if it's less than before)
13:18<petn-randall>sarvad: Chrome isn't even shipped in bullseye. There's only chromium.
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13:19<zleap>ah don't you need to download and install chrome manually
13:20<zleap>have they fixed the issue with chromium being really slow with scratch ?
13:21<sarvad>petn-randall : Ok, I only mentioned Chrome because NthDegree seems to have a requirement for it. Hence suggesting an (sort of) equivalent alternative in Brave.
13:21<sarvad>godreturns : No issues with Firefox here. It's an awesome browser - there's a reason why it's the default browser in debian.
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13:22<sarvad>I am not much of a developer and for my needs Brave fits nicely.
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13:23<Kolusion>Where is that cool guy I was talking to last night?
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13:25<bremner>the one you called a fascist?
13:27<ansgar>Kolusion: Weren't you switching to FreeBSD?
13:27<Kolusion>bremner: There is a fascist here, I forgot who it is. It could be you?!
13:27<Kolusion>ansgar: I am on it now, the system is broken, but the community is even more broken!
13:27<bremner>well, I am a chanop, so perhaps. It depends on your definition.
13:28<ansgar>Everyone can be a chanop!
13:28<spine-o-saurus>you mean systemd is broken?
13:28<petn-randall>sarvad: I see there being a conflict of interest, as the Brave developers are also part of the Ad industry.
13:28<Kolusion>bremner: Congratulations on your status. If you be a fascist I will let you know.
13:28<bremner>I'm sure you will...
13:28<petn-randall>Kolusion: Do you have an actual support question?
13:28<Kolusion>spine-o-saurus: No, I mean - I don't even know where to start!
13:29<Kolusion>I might have to use Debian after all.
13:29<ansgar>Oh noes.
13:29-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
13:29-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian.or.at #debian-next #security #debian
13:29<Kolusion>Exactly. Security fixes that don't get backported!
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13:30<petn-randall>Kolusion: Do you have an actual support question? Or are you just here for noise and trolling?
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13:30<Kolusion>petn-randall: Are you tonights white knite?
13:30-!-mode/#debian [+o petn-randall] by ChanServ
13:30-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@61.68.254.78] by petn-randall
13:30-!-mode/#debian [-o petn-randall] by petn-randall
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13:32<petn-randall>Kolusion: Please come back if you know basic netiquette, and also how to stay on-topic. Thank you for flying #debian.
13:32<ansgar>Let me advertise #debian on Freenode here once ;-)
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13:32<petn-randall>Heh :)
13:33<omegatron>is the user usually informed somehow in his client, if you "quiet" him ? (asking as a chan op myself)
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13:34<ratrace>so I guess..... he was in collusion with the netiquette. I know, I know. Bad Pun Monday.
13:34<ansgar>omegatron: Everyone sees the +q mode change and I think one gets error messages from the server when trying to send messages.
13:34<petn-randall>omegatron: AFAIK yes, but I've never actually misbehaved that much to find out.
13:34<omegatron>I see
13:35-!-spine-o-saurus [~snake@2602:48:a07b:3b0c:60bc:f250:6c93:1886] has quit [Quit: Connection Terminated]
13:36<ansgar>omegatron: Since must be done: I joined a random channel, +q myself, -o myself and: -!- #asfjidafgda Cannot send to nick/channel
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13:36<omegatron>ah
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13:37<omegatron>but this blocks the entire IP ... assuming this was, let's say, an university's wan ip, all of them would be blocked now, I guess?
13:38-!-joachin [~douglas@2800:b20:111a:40d4::29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38<omegatron>I guess '*!*' is some irc wildcard, meaning "every nickname" ..
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13:38<luis_>Good day for all. I am trying to block the screen on Debian 10 with xfce4 but nothing happend. Something I have to install?
13:38<omegatron>but ok, it's off-topic and not important ..
13:40<luis_>Something do I have to install?
13:42<jmcnaught>luis_: do you mean "lock" the screen? How did you install xfce4? Were recommends disabled? I think xfce4 by default uses lightdm and light-locker.
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13:44<luis_>jmcnaught, thanks for your reply. I see that those programs are installed
13:45<luis_>and yes, lock screen, excuses
13:47<luis_>I install Debian 10 -xfce non-free
13:47<luis_>I installed Debian 10 -xfce non-free
13:49<luis_>And, I don't remember touch nothing about recommends
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13:58<jmcnaught>luis_: I am not an xfce4 user, but apparently the default shortcut to lock the screen is ctrl+alt+delete but you can change this under settings.
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14:05<luis_>jmcnaught, thanks for your support. Aparently the function isn't work. I am reviewing from terminal
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14:10<NthDegree>petn-randall, the reason I mentioned Chrome is because Chromium is a broken pile of fail right now in Bullseye because it's using version 90.x and hasn't patched to 91.x yet
14:11<NthDegree>(and it's now many weeks behind other distros in patching too with multiple vulnerabilities, even in the current stable tree.. so I'm not sure what's going on there)
14:11<ratrace>chromium is very difficult to build in a stable environment
14:11<ratrace>I think the snap'd chromium is always fresh
14:12<NthDegree>it should be easy to build in Bullseye though as that's fresh, as well as Sid
14:12<ratrace>but it's frozen
14:13<NthDegree>Chromium isn't kept frozen though, it's excluded from that policy for good reason
14:13<sney>fsvo "easy" as it's enormous, takes forever to build, and the build system depends on python 2
14:13<NthDegree>and on Sid it should surely be up to date by now
14:13<bremner>where good reason = everything is terrible
14:13<sney>the current chromium maintainer is a new contributor as well, and is working alone afaik
14:13<ratrace>NthDegree: not quite, see:
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14:13<ratrace>!slushy
14:13<dpkg>When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>.
14:14<bremner>chromium 90 is in stable-new. What are we talking about again?
14:14<ratrace>91
14:14<bremner>oic
14:14<NthDegree>90 is worse than 89.x
14:15<NthDegree>basically 90 breaks hardware acceleration, VAAPI and a bunch of other stuff making everything hog the CPU
14:16<NthDegree>knowing there's only one person who's new working on it, I'ma see if I can get chromium built with the newer version
14:16<ratrace>or use the snap, meanwhile :)
14:16<NthDegree>I decided against the snap in the end, as it's still got breakage of its own
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14:18*vv221 sometimes wonders why chromium is accepted in Debian repos at all…
14:19<ratrace>NthDegree: fwiw, it builds and works with vaapi (and widevine) here on gentoo, so it _should_ be possible if you can massage the deps
14:20<gordreturns>ansgar: is Freenode back to normal? I stopped going when they nuked all the user accounts. They recovered them yet?
14:20<NthDegree>gordreturns, pretend Freenode doesn't exist, it's for the best
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14:20<gordreturns>I'm pretending Libera doesn't exist
14:20<ratrace>freenode doesn't exist any more. the new network has nothing to do with freenode except the name
14:21<ratrace>welp, since all the projects picked up and left for Libera, you'll be sharing the 'node with bots and staff only
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14:21<NthDegree>gordreturns, pretend both don't exist in that case because Debian's official stance was made clear in mailing lists
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14:22<gordreturns>although Freenode lost a lot of people, it was only like 30%, and it wasn't until they nuked the user database (I'd love to see a technical blog post justifying this) that they were truly ended
14:22<NthDegree>"Anything on Freenode that looks like Debian is to be considered
14:22<NthDegree>unofficial, not supported and generally hostile."
14:22<ansgar>gordreturns: They are a proper royal network with strong leadership now. (And no, the user db was of course not restored as it was tainted by evil (aka former freenode staff))
14:22<NthDegree>To quote: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/06/msg00002.html
14:22<ratrace>seems like 30% of "user" base is what _remained_, not what _went away_ https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php
14:22<gordreturns>NthDegree: what a silly thing to say. I joined OFTC only a few days ago (Freenode refugee). ##debian has always been unofficial, but a great channel
14:23<gordreturns>In the real world no one cares about "official" channels
14:23<gordreturns>Unless they're trying to reach a dev or something
14:23<ansgar>gordreturns: It is amazing with supression of mentioning the outside world (people just talk of the L word). Luckily they can't lock people up :D
14:23<NthDegree>gordreturns, in the real world, the unofficial channel moved to Libera. But if you're pretending Libera doesn't exist, use the official channel (here) instead :D
14:24<gordreturns>you mean anti-spam? Because my last few days on Freenode Libera people were spamming every channel with BS about "Freenode being taken over by jews"
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14:24<sney>gordreturns: freenode's #debian was official until sometime in 2006, and maintained by debian ops afterwards as a legacy concession. #debian on new-freenode has no involvement with debian ops and is truly unofficial.
14:24<bremner>gordreturns: that was not libera people
14:24<sney>context, yo
14:24<bremner>anyway, I think this might need to go to #debian-offtopic
14:24<gordreturns>NthDegree: an unofficial channel can't move. If Freenode hadn't nuked the user database, ##debian on Freenode would still be a great unofficial channel
14:24<gordreturns>by virtue of the Freenode people in it
14:24<ansgar>gordreturns: No, they also ban real people for mentioning other IRC networks. But as bremner says not that ontopic here :)
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14:26<zleap>it is sometimes necessary to mention other networks, e.g if on freenode and someone asks about debian - direct to oftc
14:26<NthDegree>if you wanna talk about the true state of freenode I'm happy to chat in #debian-offtopic about it
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14:30<gordreturns>I'm not really. I'm mostly done with IRC. I'll just come on here from time to time if I'm stuck on something.
14:30<gordreturns>Where can I give feedback to developers of the Debian installer?
14:30<sney>file a bug against the debian-installer pseudopackage
14:30<gordreturns>thanks
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14:31<gordreturns>ah, but I guess I should try with Bullseye first to see if they improved it
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14:32<Sqrt{not}>gordreturns, if you have a problem using the Debian installer, you could also ask about it on IRC (e.g. here) and see if there is an easy answer
14:32<gordreturns>is there a large forum community like ubuntuforums.org (ideally) or askubuntu?
14:32<gordreturns>Sqrt{not}: it's not a bug, it's suggestions/improvements
14:33<bittin->gordreturns: there is mailinglists
14:33<sney>the debian-user mailing lists are still active afaik, and forums.debian.net might be too
14:33<gordreturns>in this case, mainly asking all the questions upfront then no longer prompting the user. There's like 4 interruptions with like 5 minutes of installation between each.
14:34<NthDegree>there's a downside to that which you'll see with Ubuntu and Fedora installers
14:34<NthDegree>both of those installers crash without decent recovery when things go wrong
14:34<NthDegree>with Debian you get dumped into "expert mode" as a fallback and can replay steps when things fail in a way which doesn't need you to start from scratch
14:35<Sqrt{not}>gordreturns, there is also "preseeding"
14:36<Sqrt{not}>%preseeding
14:36<dselect>[preseed] Preseeding provides a way to set answers to questions asked during the Debian installation process, to allow for a streamlined or completely automated installation. The <install guide> provides an extensive appendix on preseeding with a full example. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed and http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/394 . See also <debconf-set-selections>.
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14:36<gordreturns>I would say that's for advanced/corporate users, not someone trying to install a desktop
14:37<gordreturns>I mean, not a regular person. Who btw wouldn't know what to do in "expert mode"
14:37<sney>the calamares installer is also available in the debian-live images, and that one has a different workflow that you might prefer
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14:38<NthDegree>A regular person also wouldn't know what to do with a python dump if their Internet connection becomes wonky (Fedora) or a dump when partitioning is in an unexpected state (Ubuntu) either
14:39<NthDegree>It's still a good suggestion either way and something to think about implementing :) don't get me wrong
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14:42<gordreturns>sney: Well I did have other suggestions. The installer prompts you to select desktop packages. There's "Debian Desktop Environment" separate from KDE/XFCE/etc. Also, couldn't figure out the Debian equivalent of ubuntu-desktop-minimal (just GUI essentials + text editor + browser) without Libreoffice and other heavyweight)
14:43<gordreturns>"Debian Desktop Environment" was ungooglable, had no clue if I should check it or not
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14:43<bremner>yeah, dunno why that doesn't say "Gnome 3"
14:43<gordreturns>I just wanted to offer a perspective from a non-tech-illiterate first time user
14:43<NthDegree>gordreturns, https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ might be what you're after
14:43<gordreturns>NthDegree: it's no big deal, my goal here is just trying to make things easier for other people migrating to Debian
14:44<sney>it's not separate, it's a category heading. it's a tree layout.
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14:45<gordreturns>Another thing that bit me was that I was installing Debian in a VM. After installing Debian, I inserted the "Virtualbox Guest Additions" (for shared clipboard, high-res graphics, etc). But by default Debian mounts ISOs as noexec, so you can't execute the VBox tools installer.
14:45<sney>any interface can be obscure if you overthink it. d-i does need some updates for the current era, though, sure.
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14:45<gordreturns>A novice user will think "huh? autorun.sh has +x, why can't I run it"
14:46<gordreturns>I mean, a low-level power user, obvviously a novice doesnt know about file permissions
14:46<sney>and the virtualbox guest modules have been in mainline linux for years now, you usually don't need the iso for anything on a debian guest
14:46<NthDegree>yeah, vmware, virtualbox, kvm and hyper-v are all catered for these days automatically
14:47<ratrace>I was always of an opinion that linux distros are meant primarily for the power users. if one wanted the clicky-clicky convenience of windows, then windows is a far better choice.
14:47<gordreturns>Clipboard/high-res graphics doesn't work automatically though, not until I install the tools. Do I need to install an apt package?
14:48<gordreturns>ratrace: I use both. I have Windows as my host which I game on, and run Linux in VMs for anything tech-related. And to run tools like find/grep/etc on my Windows files, there's WSL
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14:48<ratrace>I game on linux
14:48<NthDegree>gordreturns, WSL1 or WSL2?
14:49<NthDegree>if it's the latter, that might explain your issues somewhat
14:49<gordreturns>WSL1. WSL2 is some fancy VM. WSL1 opens in 1second.
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14:50<gordreturns>I don't even know if you can access the Windows files easily from WSL2, since it's a VM instead of a translation layer. For me I just "cd /mnt/c/users/moi/Documents" ( I have an alias) and can then use Linux tools
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14:50<NthDegree>with WSL2 it's automatically taken care of using 9P mounts
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14:50<ratrace>WSL is heresy, abomination that should be purged in nuclear holy fire of Penguin God Emperor
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14:51<gordreturns>I'll wait until I have an issue with WSL1 before I bother switching. It works great so far. Also as I said I love that it opens as fast as a Windows command prompt
14:51<NthDegree>WSL2 is kinda awesome, since it now lets people use 3D
14:51<gordreturns>ratrace: WSL is honestly a big blow to Linux
14:51<britho>WSL was a good step in the right direction
14:51<britho>For Windows, at least
14:51<ratrace>gordreturns: that's because WSL1 is just a special bash shell ontop of the NT kernel
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14:51<gordreturns>I mean Linux desktop, free software, etc
14:51<NthDegree>remember how you can't share an NVIDIA GPU between a VM and a host at the same time? You can with WSL2 :P
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14:52<ratrace>gordreturns: since "linux desktop" never was a thing ... there's a collective shrug.
14:52<gordreturns>NthDegree: so you can play all those Linux game exclusives on Windows in a Linux VM? :P
14:52<ratrace>NthDegree: you conflated two different things. 1) you can't _Share_ any VPU like that. 2) you CAN gpu passhtrough nvidia, despite the rumours
14:53<Sqrt{not}>gordreturns, when you say "not until I install the tools" in your VM, which tools do you mean?
14:53<ratrace>%s/VPU/GPU/
14:53<gordreturns>When my gaming laptop becomes obsolete (it's 4yo right now but considering the games I played I think I'm good for another 5 years), my next one will be a PC, and I'll run Linux natively, and Windows in a VM with GPU passthrough
14:53<NthDegree>ratrace, Windows lets you paravirt the GPU in Hyper-V so you can in a way similar to GRID
14:53<gordreturns>Since finding out about vfio/gpu passthrough
14:54<ratrace>gordreturns: you probably won't even need a windows VM. I can't remember when I fired up mine last. Proton reigns supreme.
14:54<NthDegree>ratrace, I'm talking Intel GVT-g type functionality (sort of) but with NVIDIA GeForce via Hyper-V for WSL2
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14:55<gordreturns>ratrace: I'll need a VM whatever happens, I need Outlook and Teams for work. Teams is crossplatform but on Linux it had issues with screen-sharing during meetings, at least 6 months ago
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14:55<ratrace>there's a snap of Teams and Outlook... nobody uses Outlook .9
14:55<NthDegree>ratrace, also you can share GPUs between machines using SR-IOV if the GPU supports it but those are expensive cards
14:56<gordreturns>There's a snap of Outlook? It's not Windows-only software?
14:56<NthDegree>gordreturns, he's referring to the new Outlook which is web UI based
14:56<ratrace>I misplaced punctuation it seems. there's a snap of teams; nobody uses outlook
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14:57<gordreturns>NthDegree: they electroned Outlook of all things?
14:57<gordreturns>That seems like a bad idea considering all the enterprise boomers who have been using it for dewcades
14:57<NthDegree>They've not electroned it yet, the online version is what's being used at the moment
14:58<NthDegree>https://www.windowscentral.com/project-monarch-outlook-web-universal-email-client-microsoft
14:58<NthDegree>^^ electron in all but name only I guess :P
14:59<gordreturns>ratrace, to get back to what you said...Linux desktop is incomparably superior, due to being open. I can archive a VM I created and send it to someone, without brekaing the law. I can have old dev environments (for old work projects), because there's no one to say "we discontinued that product and we encourage you to upgrade to XYZ".
14:59<gordreturns>superior for people who work in computers, I mean
15:00<gordreturns>But even for my parents, Ubuntu LTS does the job, just rename Firefox's launcher to "Internet"
15:00<NthDegree>LOL I love the fact you renamed that
15:00<gordreturns>reduces questions :)
15:01<ratrace>shoulda used the old Internet explorer icon too :)
15:01<NthDegree>Did you know that when KDE 3.x was popular, some distros used to use the description as the display name rather than the software name?
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15:01<ratrace>NthDegree: I think that's still the thing
15:01<ratrace>was at least, way into 4.0 when I stopped using KDE
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15:02<gordreturns>Interesting. I wasn't a Linux user at the time. But it sorta makes sense "Calculator" instead of kcalc or whatever
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15:02<NthDegree>It's now Product Name in big text then Description in little grey'ish text
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15:05<gordreturns>But Microsoft is catching up to Linux in convenience/automatibility. They have a package manager now, which is likely to be integrated in Windows 11. WSL gives a familiar interface to Linux users. That stuff is adding up.
15:05<NthDegree>They have three package managers and all of them a broken
15:06*NthDegree supports both OSes for his day job and always runs a dev environment for Windows
15:06<gordreturns>I had a bad feeling in my gut as soon as WSL1 came out, even as I installed it myself and enjoyed it since, I worried for Linux adoption
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15:07<gordreturns>NthDegree: I mean an official microsoft one. Chocolatey is 3rd party, Winget I think is the MS one...what's the 3rd?
15:07<NthDegree>Chocolatey, OneGet, WinGet
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15:08<NthDegree>WinGet can't update packages properly and relies upon hacks, Chocolatey conflicts with built-in updaters and OneGet was the predecessor to WinGet which got canned
15:09<NthDegree>then you also have MSIX packages which won't replace MSI packages for the same reason Flatpak/Snap won't replace DEB or RPM
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15:10<ratrace>gordreturns: I think you're concerned only about "desktop" adoption? which never was a thing. Meanwhile, Linux owns vast majority of mobile deviecs and servers. No WSL will _ever_ change that
15:10<NthDegree>also, to enable all the new Windows features consumes 12GB RAM under basic workloads
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15:12<NthDegree>Also, if you want to know why you need 7th Gen Intel for Windows 11, the answer is easy. Just enable Memory Integrity with 6th gen or below and use unsigned binaries
15:12<gordreturns>IT depends if you're looking at raw numbers, or wanting to encourage open software. A Locked down Android phone running a Linux kernel means nothing for user freedom. 1 million users running closed OSes and clients, connecting to a single Debian server, means nothing for user freedom.
15:12<gordreturns>I see it as a defeat
15:13<gordreturns>The main people enjoying Linux, are corporations (such as my employer) for whom it's "Free tools"
15:13<gordreturns>And a handful of geeks
15:13<NthDegree>You're talking about a battle that's already been lost a long time ago and it has nothing to do with the computer you hold in your hand or type on
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15:14<gordreturns>yeah :/ But I think there was a lost opportunity, perhaps around Windows Vista or Windows 8 or other failed Windows launches, where a unifie/streamlined (but customizable) Linux desktop experience could've eaten a significant part of Windows's lunch
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15:14<NthDegree>gordreturns, Windows is irrelevant
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15:15<NthDegree>So is macOS and Linux and *BSD
15:15<gordreturns>Desktop in general you mean
15:15<NthDegree>no, most non-server computing in general
15:15<gordreturns>I think that's true for home users, who largely replaced desktops with iPads
15:15<NthDegree>The only "operating people" people use is $WebBrowser
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15:15<NthDegree>s/operating people/operating system
15:15<gordreturns>What about people who work in an office?
15:15<petn-randall>Would be nice to move this discussion to #debian-offtopic, as this isn't related to support.
15:16<ratrace>gordreturns: "The main people enjoying Linux, are corporations" .. and many of them, certainly the most important ones, are treating it as open and libre and are contributing massively
15:16<gordreturns>yeah, sorry. I'll drop it
15:16<NthDegree>gordreturns, it's interesting, we should chat in #debian-offtopic
15:16<NthDegree>it is populated y'know :P
15:16<petn-randall>No need to drop, just move it to the other channel and continue there. :)
15:16<petn-randall>Mostly the same people anyway.
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15:31<nonamen>Howdy everyone! I have Debian 10 system with the most recent kernel 4.19.0-16-amd64 booting to a kernal panic. I had been using the backup Linux 4.19.0-10-amd64 but now it boots to a blinking cursor. Can't figure out how to get GNOME running. I have the GRUB command line and with ctrl-alt-F1 I can get to a CLI log in, but dunce that I am, I seem to have forgotten my username and I can't login
15:31<nonamen>as root? Just trying to copy some files from my encrypted disk before I reinstall.
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15:34<nonamen>thank goodness. I managed to log in to the CLI, GNOME still doesn't want to start. "gnome-session" returns "Terminated"
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15:35<NthDegree>nonamen, what happens if you boot an older kernel?
15:36<NthDegree>as in an older one still
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15:37<NthDegree>nonamen, if you just want to copy files off, grab a LiveCD with KDE or GNOME and boot that, then put in the encryption password to unlock it
15:37<NthDegree>you don't have to be booted into the installed system to access the files as long as you know the password to decrypt the disk
15:38<nonamen>Didn't realize I could decrypt from a LiveCD. I'll give that a try
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15:39<NthDegree>yeah, when you're booted into GNOME or KDE on the LiveCD, you can mount the encrypted disk as normal and then use the graphical file manager (Files or Dolphin) to back stuff up :)
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15:45<r4fkramer>Hi all please, is there any alternative application to 'Android File Transfer' available in the official Debian archive buster or bullseye ?
15:45<r4fkramer>I don't want to use ppas; in the worst case, if this alternative doesn't exist, I will have to compile this application on buster.
15:47<nonamen>@NthDegree, thank you very much. I was able to clear up some disk space with the command line and now I can 'startx" Time to make backups and nuke this OS, lol
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15:47<NthDegree>r4fkramer, you just looking to get at documents and such?
15:48<NthDegree>r4fkramer, https://wiki.debian.org/mtp
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15:50<r4fkramer>Hi NthDegree, thank you for answering; Yes, basically the same device I used for iPhone, but now one that's compatible for android devices. Thank you very much for Support :)
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15:52<gordreturns>"I don't want to use ppas" PPAs work on Debian?!
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15:53<gordreturns>r4fkramer: any luck finding the cause of your /var/ issue?
15:55<r4fkramer>Hi gordreturns, I never tested ppas, never used it in debian, and it seems it's more commonly used in ubuntu environment, which is not my case here, because I don't use ubuntu.
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15:56<vv221>Technically, a PPA could provide builds targetting Debian releases.
15:56<vv221>But I almost always see Ubuntu only.
15:57<r4fkramer>Yes, vv221, I basically only use official debian repositories, including backports in some specific cases.
15:57<quadrat>yeah and there are some people who use them to create a Frankendebian
15:58<NthDegree>gordreturns, yes you can have PPAs that target both Ubuntu and Debian releases simultaneously =D
15:58<r4fkramer>Yes, and I don't intend to become a Frankdebian user one day, lol
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15:59<gordreturns>are ppas any worse than adding a new 3rd party apt repo belonging to the developer of your app (eg VSCodium)?
16:00<sney>they can be, because at least that 3rd party package is usually tested on more than one debian/ubuntu derivative. ppas are autobuilt for ubuntu only
16:00<NthDegree>r4fkramer, you mean like me, who now wants to reinstall to feel less dirty? >_>
16:00<NthDegree> libavcodec-extra58 : Depends: libavutil56 (= 7:4.3.2-0+deb11u2) but 10:4.1.6-dmo1+deb10u1 is to be installed
16:00<NthDegree> Depends: libswresample3 (= 7:4.3.2-0+deb11u2) but 10:4.1.6-dmo1+deb10u1 is to be installed
16:00<NthDegree>^^^ I FEEL DIRTY
16:01<sney>oof, dmo
16:01<sney>at least you've got the repo commented out, right?
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16:01<NthDegree>sney, removed and I'll never use it ever again, ever
16:02<quadrat>i never understood for whom dmo is :/ as everything I ever wanted is in the official repo
16:02<sney>it used to be needed for video codecs, but not for many years
16:03<sney>I will occasionally use it for 1 package, and then disable it immediately after; it can be safe, used in that fashion.
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16:03<NthDegree><-- idiots like me who are used to repos like RPMFusion and EPEL
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16:09<r4fkramer>NtDegree, less dirty ? Well, I always use stable (or almost stable apps) in debian. Just to give you an idea: it's the first time I've used a testing version of Debian. Of the 11 separate Debian installations I have here, only one is testing; all others are Buster 10.9
16:11<r4fkramer>I used these repos you've mentioned in last CentOS too. For my case (and other several users cases I know), I prefer using Debian.
16:11<NthDegree>I'm excited for Bullseye
16:12<NthDegree>it appears to be the first Debian release with SELinux support that's better than Fedora
16:13<NthDegree>I mean, it separates Documents, Music, Pictures etc. so I can actually write custom policy which I might have a shot of making usable for upstream
16:14<NthDegree>and it seems to have a good KDE implementation too
16:14<r4fkramer>Some days ago I was talking with ratrace about it. Apparmor or SELinux in Debian ? I still don't know how to use either. I decided to study a book of almost 500 pages to use SELinux in bullseye.
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16:15<NthDegree>AppArmor is still a bit nerfed in Debian compared to Ubuntu but SELinux actually has some advantages over Fedora now
16:15<r4fkramer>NithDegree, do you use SELinux in buster ?
16:16<NthDegree>I tested it in a VM and it seemed OK for a server deployment
16:16<NthDegree>but I can't speak for desktop use
16:16<NthDegree>however the Bullseye reference policy has stuff which excites me
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16:16<quadrat>NthDegree i would still debate that RPMFusion and EPEL are different in comparison to dmo.
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16:17<r4fkramer>NtDegree, Fine !
16:17<vv221>gordreturns, there is no big difference that I know of between PPA and other third-party repos.
16:17<vv221>PPA builds might share some characteristics if they use a shared infrastructure, while other third-party can vary a lot in quality.
16:18<r4fkramer>Sorry, quadrat, please, what is the meaning of 'dmo' ?
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16:18<quadrat>debian-multimedia.org
16:18<NthDegree>r4fkramer, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SELinuxProject/refpolicy/master/policy/modules/system/xdg.fc <-- see that? That's AWESOME :D
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16:19<r4fkramer>quadrat, thank you :) I never included multimedia repo in my sources.list
16:19<quadrat>r4fkramer you never want to
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16:20<vv221>It might have had a couple incentives ~10 years ago, but even then I would have recommended avoiding this repo…
16:20<r4fkramer>yes, quadrat, never felt need for that
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16:22<r4fkramer>NthDegree, I'll have a look and read this whole article, for I'm quite interested to learn SELinux in Debian. After a basic knowledge about it, I'll start using it in all my 11 debian installationss, Thank you very much for this link !
16:22<quadrat>this article?
16:23<r4fkramer>Now I saw it's not about an article, quadrat.
16:26<r4fkramer>I don't intend to use it one day, vv221. Official debian repo and backports provide me everything I need :) And I never used third-party in buster.
16:26<NthDegree>r4fkramer, it's not an article, it's just why I thinkt
16:26<NthDegree>the new policy will be awesome *
16:27<NthDegree>If I ever somehow meet Russell Coker, I owe him a beer
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16:28<r4fkramer>Yes, NtDegree, after opened, I realized that's not an article. Not able to understand it yet. But I will :)
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16:30<r4fkramer>NthDegree: https://au.linkedin.com/in/russell-coker-69652a1a
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16:37<Regda>hi, i am currently a little bit confused related to the preseed file for the debian-installer (buster)
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16:38<Regda>i was reading the documentation and i was reading the output while i gave some input to the setup
16:39<Regda>now, the documentation tells me to use another "user" (d-i) then i was reading in the output of the setup
16:40<Regda>can somebody tell me where i can get help, so e.g. a mail-list or something ?
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16:52<Sqrt{not}>Regda, what documentation are you reading? what installer are you using? What part of it wants you to use another user?
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16:57<Regda>Sqrt{not}, i am using the installer packed on the iso (dvd). i read the following (see link) dokumentation: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apbs04.en.html
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16:59<Regda>then in case of e.g. partman the documentation tells me to use "d-i" but if i read my questions.dat then i see that the debian-installer wrote "partman-base" instead of "d-i" into it
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16:59<Regda>so i dont know what is correct now :/
17:01<sney>Regda: sometimes docs are inconsistent, try it with the user you specified already and see what happens
17:02<Regda>sney, how can i verify it ? in case both works ?
17:03<Regda>the documentation says its used for accessrights
17:03<sney>sometimes a test is the only way to get an answer
17:04<Sqrt{not}>Regda, are you talking about the part where you preseed creating a user/password in the new system?
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17:05<Regda>no, the preceed has the syntax: <owner> <question name> <question type> <value>
17:06<Regda>i am talking about the <owner>
17:06<Regda>the documentation says i should use "d-i" but in the questions.dat i get mostly different ones
17:07<Regda>e.g. for partman its "partman-partitioning" or "partman-base"
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17:08<Regda>or e.g. time/zone where it uses "tzsetup-udeb" as owner
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17:15<NthDegree>sney, I'm now testing that I can build the current package and then I'ma try to make an up to date Chromium
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17:16<sney>NthDegree: if you want to help the maintainer, their email address is on tracker.debian.org/chromium - good luck with the build, I've heard it takes many hours on some hardware
17:17<Sqrt{not}>Regda, I think the owner is always d-i -- look at the examples in the documentation, or in the example preseed file linked from the documentation. Note also, that documentation is available in other languages than only english
17:17<ratrace>it took 12+ hours on my old core i5. it takes ~6 hours on my shiny Ryzen 5600x
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17:18<NthDegree>ratrace, I hope your old core i5 is much older than my i7 6700 then >_>
17:18<ratrace>it was core i5-4460, ~5k cpumark, compared to ~20k cpumark for the ryzen. 4x more but only halfa time taken.
17:18<Sqrt{not}>Regda, https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual
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17:19<sussudio>ratrace: have you tried adding racing stripes to the sides of your computer case?
17:20<ratrace>nah, I'm not unrolling fun loops :)
17:20<NthDegree>ratrace, does this mean modern Chromium takes longer than the whole of a Gentoo Stage1? :|
17:20<sney>I think that's why MSI designs their stuff the way they do, because the red makes it go faster
17:20<NthDegree>like say Stage1 with KDE and Firefox
17:20<ratrace>NthDegree: modern chromium is a mini OS.
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17:21<ratrace>and... dunno, I only use stage3 installs
17:21<ratrace>NthDegree: but, hey, I switched to gentoo and build a full desktop in less time than it took me to figure out how to build libvulkan1 i386 on x86_64, on debian :) by which time it was irrelevan as it became just a matter of emerge .
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17:23<Regda>Sqrt{not} hm ok, i mean i noticed that there is "d-i" everywhere but why its not in my questions.dat ? thats what bugs me :/
17:24<NthDegree>My theory: If I can get this package to build, I should be able to nab Fedora's package, retrofit it to Debian and build a "Fedora Chromium" on Bullseye
17:24<NthDegree>if that works, I should then be able to fit in the debianization patches since there aren't too many changes
17:25<sney>redhat and debian style packaging are wildly different, but you can probably at least get inspiration from the spec file
17:25<ratrace>if the idea is not to help out the maintainer with a native build, why not just snap it or flatpak it
17:25<ratrace>,i alien
17:25<judd>Package alien (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: convert and install rpm and other packages. Version: 8.95; Size: 80.3k; Installed: 166k; Homepage: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/alien/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/alien; O: #791522
17:25<Sqrt{not}>Regda, see also: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed https://preseed.debian.net/debian-preseed/
17:25<NthDegree>sney, I mean nabbing the source+patches not the package
17:25<sney>ack
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17:25<NthDegree>Fedora stole a lot of Debian patches recently
17:26<NthDegree>so it's not too far off, they credited Debian in the changelogs
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17:27<NthDegree>if I then have a working build after that, then it should just be a case of tweaking it to be as Debianized as possible without diverging too much
17:27<ratrace>NthDegree: try it with alien
17:28<ratrace>but imho, the same problems would plague any kind of build. llvm version, lib compat
17:28<NthDegree>OSError: [Errno 38] Function not implemented
17:28<NthDegree>[3692/47270] CXX obj/third_party/boringssl/boringssl/tls13_enc.o
17:28<NthDegree>on the original package that somehow built O_o
17:28<NthDegree>that's with a clean debootstrap and only the required dependencies
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17:29<Sqrt{not}>Regda, probably the most appropriate mailing list would be: https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/
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17:35*NthDegree realises he didn't bindmount /dev/shm
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17:43<ratrace>NthDegree: coulda just created a new tmpfs
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17:44<NthDegree>yep >_>
17:45<NthDegree>also I'm sure there's a cleaner way to make me not burn down the house than this too... echo 3000000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq
17:46<ratrace>yes. echo "performance" > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
17:46<NthDegree>lolno
17:46<NthDegree>I wanted to reduce the max frequency not increase it
17:46<NthDegree>Package id 0: +93.0°C (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) <--- that started to worry me a bit
17:47<ratrace>time to remove the cooler, undust it and apply new thermal paste
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17:48<NthDegree>it's an HP PC so the cooler is not the best but I might repaste it soon
17:49<ratrace>also consider watercooling. there's cute little closed loop kits so you don't have to fiddle with fluids
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17:49<ratrace>case in point, my ryzen 5600x currently sits at 29°C. barely touches 60 when compiling chromium full tilt (-j12)
17:49<NthDegree>ratrace, my next PC will be a custom build will likely be a water-cooled all-AMD rig
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17:51<aloo_shu>apt install cpufrequtils, gives cpufreq-set, cpufreq-info (& cpufreq-aperf) as somewhat more elegant cli tools
17:52<sussudio>i have an athlon slot a 800mhz cpu that would get hot enough to crash, even with a delta fan blowing
17:53<ratrace>time for immersive cooling :)
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17:54<ratrace>seal the case, remove fans, pour it in, spit, light a cuban (cigar), curse as the temps don't go down too much.
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17:57<quadrat>ahh i loved sloted cpus :3
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17:59<NthDegree>I'm seeing a whole load of nodejs... makes me wanna puke lol
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18:00<nonamen>My /var/log folder is using 90GB of disk space?? This seems to be the reason my GNOME failed to start earlier. What gives? I don't even know how to open these files, can I delete them?
18:00<jhutchins>nonamen: Logrotate, and it sounds like you messed with it.
18:01<ratrace>or messed with journald.conf options
18:02<jhutchins>We had a lot of trouble with atop not getting truncated, but that's because we had a lot of carryover from Solaris, which has no sensible defaults.
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18:16<nonamen>"logrotate --force --verbose" hasn't decreased the size of the files in /var/log. Going to delete some files and see if I break anything.
18:18<Regda>Sqrt{not} oki thanks i will read it, if i have still troubles i will ask in the mailing list :)
18:19<jhutchins>nonamen: You need to identify what's creating the files you consider excess. Manual deletion is not sustainable.
18:20<jhutchins>nonamen: Nothing will break because you deleted old log files, but you need to understand why.
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18:23<jhutchins>*9*/8poik,
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18:26<nonamen>hmmm, you make a good point. opening this 35GB 'messages' file is going to take a bit, but it looks like firefox is responsible for 99% of the entries I can see so far
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19:18<shibboleth>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=959425
19:18<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/959425 in src:grub2 (open): «loopback command hangs in 2.04 under UEFI»; severity: important; opened: 2020-05-02; last modified: 2020-05-03.
19:18<shibboleth>anyone come across this, found a solution?
19:19<shibboleth>i have two identical boxes and the issue is only affecting one, strangely enough
19:20<quadrat>shibboleth did you try the fix in that bugreport?
19:21<shibboleth>yeah, rmmod tpm does work as a bandaid
19:22<shibboleth>thing is, since i have two identical systems i'm very likely to be able to debug this issue
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19:23<shibboleth>if i could speak to a grub dev or the deb maintainer
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19:25<quadrat>shibboleth your best bet is to contact the people on the mailing list
19:25<shibboleth>https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?56423
19:26<shibboleth>not that they don't know about it
19:26<shibboleth>https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=59286
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21:07<echoSMILE>Not sure if related with the debian upgrade but, ipv6 was and is disabled but when I plug the network cable the network start using ipv6 by default?
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21:11<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: how do you configure networking? Where do you see ipv6 being used?
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21:25<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: using xfce network manager, I see it in two places at "ifconfig" and at the xfce network manager (altought, this manager has ipv6 configured as "ignore")
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21:28<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: does the ipv6 address start with fe80?
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21:33<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: there is two inet6 entries, one start with "2001" and the other "fe80"
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21:41<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: the fe80 address is probably coming from avahi-daemon.service.
21:43<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: "systemctl status avahi-daemon.service" will show its status, or "journalctl -b -u avahi-daemon.service" to see its journal.
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21:43<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: you could also search the journal for the other ipv6 address, or part of it, to see if whatever is configuring that address logs it to the journal. Something like "journalctl -b | grep 2001"
21:44<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: note that you must have permission to view the journal or be root
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21:47<echoSMILE>I can see it at the jounalctl, but not sure what I should look at
21:47<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: you can see what? Can you share it on https://paste.debian.net/ ?
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21:48<echoSMILE>The first line starts with "bind(25) AF_INET6 2001...."
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21:49<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: it does not start with a date?
21:49<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: yes yes, after the date and time, goes the "bind..."
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21:50<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: it would be easier if you just shared the whole line, you can remove your hostname if you want.
21:51<echoSMILE>Sure. One sec
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22:04<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d2261b03/
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22:05<alex11>i have a very stupid question
22:06<alex11>when you exit out of alsamixer it saves your changes right? or do you have to do something specific to it
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22:06<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: did you configure ntpd to be bound to a particular ipv6 address at one point that is no longer available?
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22:08<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: nop. I had ipv6 "ignored" since the very beginning
22:10<aloo_shu>alex11: alsamixer just changes values of the controls available on your soundcard(s), these values remain as you're closing the alsamixer app
22:10<aloo_shu>apart from that, alsa, as it's configured normally, will'
22:11<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: is there a 2001: address in the output of "ip a"?
22:11<aloo_shu>will attempt to save and restore the soundcard's state from session to session/boot to boot
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22:13<alex11>i hate sound, it's so hard to know what to fix
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22:14<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: only the fe80
22:15<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: all of the messages about the 2001: address were from ntpd complaining it could not connect to it.
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22:16<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: you could remove the ntp package, which should go back to using systemd-timesyncd.service.
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22:17<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: disabeling it would be enough?
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22:17<jmcnaught>alex11: there is an alsa-restore.service
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22:18<jmcnaught>echoSMILE: disabling ntpd.service is not enough to get systemd-timesyncd.service running because it will not run at all if ntp is installed
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22:20-!-richardm75 is "realname" on #debian
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22:20-!-RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian
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22:20-!-madez is "madez" on #debian
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22:22-!-banc is "banc" on #debian
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22:22<jmcnaught>Oh it looks like that might no longer be the case on bullseye, but on buster /lib/systemd/system/systemd-timesyncd.service.d/disable-with-time-daemon.conf exists
22:23-!-urk [~urk@2601:647:5c80:2730::2] has joined #debian
22:23-!-urk is "realname" on #debian #linux
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22:23<aloo_shu>can't ntpd be given a different address to look up?
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22:24-!-prg is "prg" on #doom64ex #debian-next #debian @##superbothangout
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22:26-!-Rayke is "rayke" on #freerdp #debian #debian-wsl
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22:29-!-den628 is "den628" on #debian
22:29<echoSMILE>jmcnaught: "journalctl -b | grep 2001" the is no output now
22:30<echoSMILE>*there
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22:31-!-archivist is "Archivist" on #debian
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22:38-!-nuc_ is "realname" on #debian
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22:40-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
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22:40-!-filexx_ is "filexx_" on #debian
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22:45-!-liquidsnake is "realname" on #linux #MXLinux #debian #retroshare
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22:45-!-BrianG61UK_ is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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22:54-!-filexx_ is "filexx_" on #debian
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22:56-!-ansimita is "ansimita" on #debian-malaysia #debian.se #debian-offtopic #debian #alpine-linux
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22:59-!-MaxPayneTopGun is "Helix" on #debian
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23:02-!-user is "user" on #debian
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23:02-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian
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23:08-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-next #debian
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23:12-!-nuc is "realname" on #debian
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23:25-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #dri #dri-devel #oolite #tor #oftc @#yugiohjcj #llvm #debian
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23:27-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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23:38-!-StarOnD is "realname" on #debian
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23:38-!-Durant1 is "realname" on #debian
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23:42-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
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23:52-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 06 00:00:58 2021