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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-11

---Logopened Sun Jul 11 00:00:05 2021
00:01-!-h_ [~rootveget@st5ve.com] has joined #debian
00:01-!-h_ is "h_" on #debian #linode #spi #debian-next
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00:11-!-alex_flY is "Alexander,,," on #kde #debian-next #debian #c++
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00:19-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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00:22-!-genesix is "purple" on #debian #virt #llvm #ovirt #cryptoparty #xen
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00:31-!-user is "user" on #debian #Christian-Chat-Chalice #cryptoparty #Corsair #Liberty #mm #redditprivacy #tor-bots #wayland #oftc #postmarketos #aqi-data-share
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00:37-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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00:48-!-duracrisis is "There's a moose on my cup!" on #oftc #debian
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00:52-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
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00:53-!-maknho_ is "maknho" on #debian
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00:54-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
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01:00-!-ndorf is "are we there yet?" on #debian
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01:02-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
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01:04-!-PeopleComePeopleGoAway is "LiuYan" on #debian #LiuYanBot
01:09-!-debacle [3a8a2df271@v2202101139504140605.quicksrv.de] has joined #debian
01:09-!-debacle is "debacle" on #quodlibet #debian-next #debian
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01:13-!-ax56234 is "truth" on #debian
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01:18-!-maknho__ is "maknho" on #debian
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01:27-!-maknho__ is "maknho" on #debian
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01:31-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
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01:36-!-hlauer is "realname" on #debian
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01:45-!-hoonetorg is "hoonetorg" on #debian-next #ovirt #debian-installer #debian #ceph-ansible #ceph
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01:57-!-quarkyalice_ is "realname" on #linux-msm #debian-offtopic #kernelnewbies #debian #alpine-offtopic #alpine-docs #alpine-devel #alpine-linux #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-dev #asahi #postmarketos-lowlevel #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos
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02:03-!-voyager1 is "user" on #tor-dev #tor-project #tor #mobian #debian-br #debian
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02:16-!-EmleyMoor is "Phil Reynolds" on #debian
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02:16-!-SZO is "anon" on #debian-next #debian
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02:17-!-seednode is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
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02:24-!-EmleyMoor is "Phil Reynolds" on #debian
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02:27-!-maknho is "maknho" on #debian #oftc #quodlibet #debian-xfce
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02:29-!-madez is "madez" on #debian
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02:29-!-maknho is "maknho" on #debian #oftc #quodlibet #debian-xfce
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02:36-!-maknho is "maknho" on #debian-xfce #debian
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02:43-!-gacia is "gacia" on #debian #chat #ubuntu
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04:05<j0n4sty>hello, anobody here?
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04:49-!-jim is "jim" on #debian #xonsh #debian-next
04:50<jim>hi, I'm trying to install emacs-nox... ran into a dependency snafu... I do the bat thign...
04:51<jim>!bat
04:51<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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04:55<jim>here's (1) https://termbin.com/pjar
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04:56-!-erle- is "Stephan" on #debian-next @#antitux #debian
04:57<ratrace>jim: might be wise to collect everything using `script` and list a single paste post
04:58<jim>only 2 more... here's (2) https://termbin.com/ji5e
05:00<jim>here's (3) https://termbin.com/f4e2
05:00<jim>ratrace, I'll try to remember for next time
05:03<jim>one interesting thing, is I tried: apt source emacs-nox, (as root) apt build-dep emacs-nox and tried to build that package... got errors. I'll get you info about that if/when you need it
05:03<ratrace>jim: did you install any other component of emacs from -t buster-backports ?
05:04<jim>maybe, I didn't think I had to
05:04<ratrace>dpkg -l | grep emacs
05:04<dpkg>No packages found matching | grep emacs
05:04<ratrace>dpkg, shush
05:04<dpkg>Fine, I'll shut up.
05:04<jim>you want -me- to do that
05:05<ratrace>mmmh-hmm
05:05<ratrace>sorry I thought the intention of it would be obvious
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05:06<jim>https://termbin.com/c43j
05:07<jim>one thing I did do... is do a dist-upgrade to later buster
05:07<ratrace>"well duh", your emacs is installed from backports. so you'll have to install -nox too
05:08<ratrace>apt install -t buster-backports emacs-nox will install it, and probably uninstall the -gtk and other x ones
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05:10<ratrace>jim: at this point, I must ask, are you sure you want that? I don't use emacs but I'm guessing this would effectively remove the "windowed"/xorg/GUI emacs, and leave only the command line variant
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05:14<onworks>hi
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05:14<onworks>hi
05:15<onworks>hey
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05:15<jim>yeah, that's what I had before, apparantly this new dist-upgrade kicked it out for some reason (recent bugs in that?), and that's what I want... is there a way to get it without installing that? like: DISPLAY="" emacs foo.txt
05:15<onworks>yes
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05:16<ratrace>jim: just install the emacs-nox then, but from backports since the rest of it is from backports. OR, if you don't want backported emacs, I suppose you can completely uninstall it, autoremove deps, and reinstall without -t . I don't know if the newer version's config files, that remain, if any, would cause issues
05:17<jim>oh ok, I'll try that
05:17<ratrace>meanwhile, quick google search suggests you can start emacs with -nw flag for command line emacs only
05:18<jim>ok, really good to know :)
05:18<jim>thanks
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07:05<bentham>My Debian device has a bluetooth interface, and I would like to rotate its MAC address. Better still, I'd like to rotate its MAC address every time I power-on the interface. What should I do?
07:05<ponow>I was on here yesterday because desktop icons weren't showing. I fixed this by enabling desktop icons extension in Gnome Tweaks. Thanks to Sqrt{not} for some help.
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07:10<ratrace>bentham: you can use systemd-networkd with it, and option MACAddressPolicy=random
07:10<Izty>Hello, I have defined a hostname for my machine (server.home), but it gets a different hostname from my router. Is it a good practice to change my local hostname (with hostnamectl) to match the hostname given by my router?
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07:26<bentham>ratrace: thanks!
07:30<bentham>I have an unrelated question, also: for wifi (not bluetooth), is there a way to verify the address that I am using to conduct a scan?
07:30<bentham>is it just the ether line that shows up in ifconfig -a?
07:34<bentham>(or ip link)
07:38<ratrace>bentham: what do you mean "verify" ?
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07:40<bentham>ratrace: I'm looking for a way to check the address that I'm using during scanning. It is easy enough to check the address that I'm using once I'm associated, but I'm less confident about the scanning operation.
07:41<ratrace>bentham: I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to?
07:41<bentham>I'm referring to the MAC address of my wifi device. Is it true that it is always whatever 'ip link' or 'ifconfig -a' says that it is, or does it use something different during scanning?
07:42<bentham>(I'm hoping the former.)
07:43<NthDegree>bentham, it depends on how everything is configured
07:43<quadrat>Izty, hm most routers wouldn't give out hostnames. but you can choose whatever hostname you want (and i assume the router will adapt to that). as a sidenote, is your hostname literally server.home? if yes, I would change it as .home is a tld domain
07:44<NthDegree>bentham, if you want to randomise in all circumstances, there's an easy way to do it
07:44<bentham>NthDegree: oh?
07:44<ratrace>bentham: afaik there's only one mac addr in play, the one listed by `ip link` yes. you can use dumpcap I think to see the 802.11 frames during scanning
07:44<NthDegree>bentham, https://pastebin.com/raw/da5xh3pz in your NetworkManager configuration
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07:47<NthDegree>I believe it's enabled by default for scanning but it will generate a one-off random MAC per SSID when connecting
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07:48<NthDegree>which is the most sane configuration choice to cater for both home and business use
07:48<bentham>ratrace: thanks for confirming that;
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07:49<NthDegree>https://blogs.gnome.org/thaller/2016/08/26/mac-address-spoofing-in-networkmanager-1-4-0/ <-- as of 2016 (nm 1.4.0) it uses said sane defaults
07:49<bentham>NthDegree: in fact I have a file with those exact three lines in a file in /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/
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07:52<bentham>NthDegree: I believe that for the configuration to keep the same MAC per SSID, you'll need the last line of the file you shared to end in 'static' rather than 'random'
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08:01<NthDegree>bentham, yeah, if you didn't have said file it'd default to making a stable MAC per SSID methinks
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08:09<wwilliam>I have this 2 files: IR_ASOA_ZIPReconciliation_202107081053.zip IMGSOAA_PPD_202107081053_C_0009.zip How do I compare the number starting in both with 2021 and if they are the same do something?
08:11<jim>wwilliam, I guess you could take each filename and, with a scripting language, break it down into the pieces you need
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08:14<wwilliam>Thanks Jim.
08:15<jim>simple example in python (just to get you started),
08:15<wwilliam>OK Thank you.
08:15<jim>fname1 = "IR_ASOA_ZIPReconciliation_202107081053.zip"
08:16<jim>fname2 = "IMGSOAA_PPD_202107081053_C_0009.zip"
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08:18<jim>then, seems like you could try breaking the filenames down, but just these two filenames aren't enough info to see how you might do that
08:19<jim>maybe you know more about the general structure?
08:20<wwilliam>Is just a file name, I need to compare the number i mentioned above if both numbers are the same create a txt file with both name one per line.
08:21<Brigo>wwilliam, easy said than done. They are two compleatily different files with unknown name structure.
08:21<wwilliam>Yes
08:21<wwilliam>The name structure changes, that is the tricky part. may be awk?
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08:33<vv221>wwilliam, is the part you want to compare always a series of 12 digits?
08:34<vv221>My regex are a bit rusty, but "a series of 12 digits" is something tools like grep or sed can extract quite easily.
08:35<jim>well the first 8 looks like a date, and the next 4 look like a time (but we don't see the time zone)
08:38<jim>and the date format looks like yyyymmdd
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08:38<jim>the files themselves, are both zip files
08:39<wwilliam>Yes always 12 digits.
08:39<wwilliam>Yes.
08:40<wwilliam>zip file but I am just interested in matching that string to create a txt file with the list of all files matching the corresponding recon file.
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08:44<jim>so you want to put a list of files into a .txt file?
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10:41<scorpion2185[m]>wine cfg
10:41<scorpion2185[m]>000f:err:service:process_send_command receiving command result timed out
10:41<scorpion2185[m]>wine: cannot find L"C:\\windows\\system32\\cfg.exe"
10:43<scorpion2185[m]>I reinstalled wine, do Ineed to reset the prefix?
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11:02<phoenix>ok
11:03<phoenix>anyone here ?
11:03<phoenix>exit()
11:03<phoenix>exit
11:03<raven523>yes
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11:03<joeDoe>haha
11:04<joeDoe>love the drive bys
11:04<Izty>quadrat: Yes, my hostname is literally server.home, but on my router side I have set up a static mapping and I defined a hostname along with a tld
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11:05<Izty>quadrat: Or well, `hostname` says "server" and `hostname --fqdn` says "server.home"
11:06<Izty>So my hostname is server.home but I can also reach that machine with server.my_domain.tld as defined on my router
11:10<towo`>scorpion2185[m], the command is winecfg
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11:12<quadrat>Izty i only said, that it would be best to not name your hostname server.home as .home is a TLD, which means it can get routed differently than you want it to. or do you own the domain server.home and i am misunderstanding you? and I would always use the fqdn as hostname. easiest also to identify your servers correctly ;)
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11:14<ratrace>quadrat: .home is specifically protected by icann and cannot be registered.... I suppose until that changes, lol. https://icannwiki.org/.home
11:15<Izty>quadrat: Ok I see :)
11:15<quadrat>ahh, ratrace. but they are pending ;) so you can assume it will get released
11:15<Izty>I just think it is confusing to have two hostname for the same machine so I wondered if it was bad practice
11:16<Izty>hostnames*
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11:16<quadrat>yeah imo it is bad practice. just input your fqdn and you are always on the good side of practice ;)
11:16<ratrace>quadrat: it's not pending, read the link. however, the suggestion to use a hostname on a publicly registered domain, is a good one. best you control the zone of it even on public internet, for all inTRAnet use
11:17<quadrat>ratrace oops, yeah somehow misread that
11:21<Izty>OK, thanks for the info :)
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11:37<NthDegree>I'd recommend using one where you own the domain, and definitely do NOT use .local
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11:38<NthDegree>because from an infrastructure perspective on both Windows and Linux, it's still useful to have consistency
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11:39<NthDegree>like if you wanted a full on Kerberos+LDAP at any point (like Active Directory) or just wanted some remote access gateways... it's nice to just have one lot of certificates handle everything both internal and external
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12:12<scorpion2185[m]>what is your preferred backup program?
12:12<koollman_>scorpion2185[m]: borgbackup
12:13<vv221>borgbackup with borgmatic
12:13<jim>in the emacs I installed from backports, ctrl-x ctrl-f <filename> works, but invoking emacs like this: emacs <filename> does not... do I need to install something else to get it to recognize plain text files?
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12:14<koollman_>jim: how does it not works ? any error message ?
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12:15<koollman_>the most common thing I could think of would be that you have an error when emacs starts, which is displayed in its own buffer
12:15<koollman_>so, start -> error display -> open another buffer, works. but start -> buffer with file -> error display in another buffer, makes you think it does not work (but it does, you just need to change to the file buffer)
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12:20<scorpion2185[m]>koollman_: is it only CLI? and vorta is the GUI?
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12:21<koollman_>scorpion2185[m]: yes, it's only cli. I don't use any gui for it. Vorta seems to be a gui for it, yes
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12:29<scorpion2185[m]>is for system and/or users home?
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12:34<vv221>Any arbitrary path you want to backup ;)
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12:36<vv221>Here I use it to backup specific paths of a systemd-nspawn container, from the host system.
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12:45<otisolsen70>NthDegree, ratrace: yesterday you helped me get some python app to work that had a dependency on pyheif that does not work in buster but worked in bullseye. You suggested I make a debootstrap chroot with bullseye. And now I did following this: https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap however, now I seem to have problems running the app. It fails on some multiprocessing and semaphore locking. Does this stuff not work inside debootstrap chroot+
12:45<otisolsen70>NthDegree, ratrace: coult it be that I should mount /dev in the chroot? (it does not do so in the wiki)
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12:46<NthDegree>otisolsen70, you definitely want to bind mount /dev
12:46<NthDegree>otisolsen70, you also want /proc and /sys in there too
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12:47<otisolsen70>I have proc and sys
12:47<NthDegree>yeah, if you add /dev too you should fine it works with any luck
12:47<NthDegree>I had missing binds when compiling a few apps which used python scripts and they bombed out
12:47<NthDegree>I think it needs random, null, urandom and zero at least to somewhat work
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12:55<scorpion2185[m]>does someone use backupninja?
12:56<ratrace>otisolsen70: yes, you need /dev. we also suggested you used systemd nspawn which sets up everything needed.
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13:12<jhutchins>I rey ro st up domain.net as the internal domain.com for external. I register domain.org to discourage camping (or, if it's a non-profit I'll swap it for the .com.
13:15<ratrace>jhutchins: I used to do that. gave up since the gTLD boom as it started feeling like a racket.
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13:23<jhutchins>I would imatine that they have no incentivc to do ,
13:24<jhutchins>I would imatine that they have no incentivc to do <company>.*
13:24<quadrat>ratrace at least where I am from, most people still look at you if it's not like the "basic" tlds, which are .de .com .net .org
13:25<jhutchins>Yeah, all the new fringe tlds are just vanity projects too cheap to go for the real things.
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13:27<scorpion2185[m]>does borg have encryption?
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13:39<ratrace>does borg have documentation https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/usage/init.html
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14:17<scorpion2185[m]>Isthere a channel for deves?
14:17<scorpion2185[m]> * Is there a channel for devs?
14:20<amacater>scorpion285[m]: This is a support channel for anyone running Debian, primarily the stable variant. There are developers around.
14:20<amacater>!ask
14:20<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:21<amacater>There are *lots* of channels around for various aspects of Debian on OFTC
14:22<scorpion2185[m]>I created a new team how do I find devs?
14:22<amacater>... what sort of devs ...
14:23<NthDegree>What's the name of the team and what are they working on?
14:24<Sqrt{not}>How much do you pay?
14:26<scorpion2185[m]>Packagers that can upload pkgs and I hoipe that my effort won't be vain. That devs will offer the root version of pkgs
14:27<scorpion2185[m]>https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Root%20support
14:28<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], there's an easier way to achieve what you're after
14:29<NthDegree>just give an ordinary user every root capability
14:29<amacater>By root version - do you mean original version ... or do you mean a version that runs as root
14:29<scorpion2185[m]>what way?
14:29<scorpion2185[m]>a version that runs as root
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14:29<scorpion2185[m]>NthDegree: can I achieve that? every root capability of evrything?
14:30<NthDegree>yes
14:30<NthDegree>you could add a shell with file capability labels
14:31<NthDegree>or you could abuse pam_cap to do the same thing
14:31<NthDegree>and it doesn't need a single package
14:31<amacater>scorpion285[m] - Probably not a good idea ... you might want to go away and read up about computer security. Oh, and in general, Debian packagers don't run things that create rootkits to break into devices if that's what you want.
14:31<scorpion2185[m]>http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/login.html
14:32<scorpion2185[m]>break into devices?
14:32<amacater>If you mean "Can somebody help me create a rootkit to break into a device" - no sorry
14:32<amacater>Not us
14:32<scorpion2185[m]>rootkit? root user support
14:32<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], running as root is more dangerous than running as Administrator on Windows 2000
14:32<NthDegree>root has the equivalent of the SYSTEM user on Windows
14:32<NthDegree>which is restricted from running full blown GUI apps by default
14:32<amacater>rootkit as in "I want to root my phone" / hack my router
14:32<scorpion2185[m]>check the link and you don't have to run as root but let people that want do it
14:33<scorpion2185[m]>indeed no rootkit to break into any devices
14:33<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], if they want to do it, I just proposed a solution which doesn't require a single package
14:33<scorpion2185[m]>not sure if it will wokr for the GUI
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14:34<Sqrt{not}>scorpion2185[m], why, besides ego, do you want to run everything as root ? what is the practical reason for this ?
14:34<NthDegree>just slap on inheritable permissions on to the desktop session executable
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14:34<scorpion2185[m]>how exactly?
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14:35<NthDegree>use setcap?
14:36<scorpion2185[m]>I am not familiar with capabilities and I barely know about DS executable
14:36<sney>running everything as root is a common workaround for inexperienced users who keep having permission problems. most of us have been there at one point.
14:36<scorpion2185[m]>Sqrt{not}: check the links on the Root Support team
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14:36<NthDegree>if you're not familiar with the security model of the OS you shouldn't be suggesting to removing safeguards which stop people shooting themselves in the foot
14:36<sney>it may be fine to use root all the time for specific tools in specific situations, but you should NOT use it as an excuse not to learn how the OS works.
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14:37<sney>you may as well just put out a sign like, "welcome hackers, free computer"
14:37<scorpion2185[m]>"Listen, running for root is not for everyone. If you are so incompetent that you can't even handle using bash without typing rm -rf / every few commands, just stop reading here. "
14:37<sney>scorpion2185[m]: qed.
14:38<NthDegree>if you can't handle capabilities(7) then you shouldn't be running everything as root
14:38<ratrace>all that said, there's no "root version of pkgs"
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14:39<NthDegree>besides, if you *really* want full control, just compile a Linux kernel as single-user
14:40<scorpion2185[m]>I didn't know about cabalities and well this is PC and I run as root if I want. It requires minimum skills you don't have to know all about alll
14:40<scorpion2185[m]>I didn't know about SU
14:41<ratrace>I'd like to joke about running in ring0 like a good unikernel lad, but then these jokers aren't joking at all: https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/SMB3_kernel_status
14:41<amacater>... And that's the point. One day, it will hurt when you do the wrong thing. If you've got a Debian system, I'd recommend maybe installing the debian-handbook package and having a read.
14:41<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], if you want to run everything as root without needing to edit capabilities, use Kali Linux instead. It's patched to support it
14:41<ratrace>%s/windows/
14:42<NthDegree>and it's also very much Debian-based
14:42<NthDegree>ratrace, even Windows doesn't allow that
14:42<ratrace>ah not any more, right
14:42<NthDegree>Administrator != SYSTEM
14:42<ratrace>good old xp
14:42<h3ndr1k>you just have to mistype dd if= of= and suddenly your partition is gone, has nothing to do with incompetence
14:42<amacater>Unless you're doing everything in a toy virtual machine without network access, pure root access is not a good idea.
14:42<scorpion2185[m]>that's it !! Let s add root support on Deb?
14:42<scorpion2185[m]> * that's it !! Let s add root support on Deb!
14:42<jhutchins>Wow, full power off, pulled the battery, and that uncontrolable music player is still running
14:42<ratrace>root support already exists. you're asking wrong questions.
14:43<scorpion2185[m]>I tried Kali they didn't even fixed pulseaudio and root auto log in
14:43<sney>jhutchins: the music is coming from a different computer?
14:43<ratrace>jhutchins: few weeks go I had to physicall destroy my phone. why? because the scren broke and one of the scheduled alarms went on and modern phones don't let you easily remove the battery... or at all, without destroying the phone
14:44<scorpion2185[m]>ratrace: really? so I missed root-login pkg that fix root log in on GNome and KDe. And for some reason I am the only onew with root check in pkgs
14:44<ratrace>couldn't shush the alarm. took a sledgehammer to it. TrueStory(tm). No joke.
14:44<wyatt8740>off to see if i can rescue someone's mobo that bricked after a windows 10 automatic update
14:44<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: so what happens when you try to log in as root?
14:45<amacater>scorpion2185[m] - I would honestly suggest going away and reading up on Linux basics. This is *NOT* a non-Debian / all Debian derivatives support group, by the way. Kali is offtopic here
14:45<NthDegree>That's my fault amacater :$
14:45<scorpion2185[m]>by default you can't . You need to remove a root check in /pam.d (?)
14:46<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: yes, so you don't have to recompile or repackage anything. just a matter of config
14:46<ratrace>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Enabling_Root_User_For_GNOME_Display_Manager
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14:46<scorpion2185[m]>for jhbuild you need
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14:47<NthDegree>ratrace, using pam.d one could also make ordinary users have capabilities too, fixing it everywhere ;P
14:47<scorpion2185[m]>and if Debian provide a good root support there would be a pkg. And waht about pulseaudio?
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14:47<scorpion2185[m]>"You can start by running as the root account. Do you ever get annoyed because you forgot to put sudo in front of a command and received a permission denied error? Oh that's funny, I wouldn't know about that. Because I'm not a baby. "
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14:48<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], add capabilities to your ordinary user.
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14:48<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: I think at this point, this is becoming noise and irrelevant. we had a laugh, exchanged ideas, but ultimately, this is no longer a debian support issue. what you ask won't be done by anyone. feel free to start your own debian derivative. LFS is an execellent guide on that.
14:48<Sqrt{not}>May 28 02:29:01 <scorpion2185[m]> Don't you feel it? I am root and root is me.
14:49<amacater>scorpion2185[m]: So you're trying to build GNOME packages from scratch - which is what I gather jhbuild does. Debian normally provides packages for users. Honestly, go away and read up on the basics - then come back and ask
14:49<scorpion2185[m]>:)
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14:49<scorpion2185[m]>I buitl GNOME 40 for fun with Deb jhbuild
14:50<scorpion2185[m]>so can I upload fixes for root?
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14:50<ratrace>wasting your time. they will be rejected.
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14:51<scorpion2185[m]>let 's see... Maybe some devs understand this
14:51<amacater>I suggest you look up the processes for becoming a Debian developer and apply: the debian-mentors list is a good place to start. Packages follow Debian guidelines. - you may need to learn how this works in more detail.
14:51<amacater>[DD since about 1998]
14:51<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: nobody will do that. really, you're just wasting your time and creating noise now.
14:52<NthDegree>amacater, you don't happen to know where there's some good documentation on which tools are the best practice ones?
14:52<scorpion2185[m]>NthDegree: I don't know can someone confimr that capabilities can achieve that?
14:52<ansgar>amacater: But people should have experience before applying as a DD :)
14:52<ansgar>(Not back in 1998, it was easy then ;-))
14:52<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], root is a user with all capabilities granted by default, that's what root is. You can have a root user with capabilities blocked too.
14:52<amacater>NthDegree - it's hard to know where best to start ... there are so many standards
14:52<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: programs that check for eUID, can be run in userNS where they _think_ they're UID 0
14:53<ratrace>in userNS your UID=0 is fake and actually a non 0 UID as far as the kernel sees it. the userland see 0, aka root. done. userNS.
14:53<scorpion2185[m]>well I have to learn about that , I never heard about userNS
14:53<ratrace>man 7 user_namespaces
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14:54<amacater>ansgar: That's why I didn't recommend #debian-devel directly ...
14:56<sney>scorpion2185[m]: everyone in this channel who qualifies as a "dev" thinks you should spend some time learning the fundamentals. will you do it this time?
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14:57<scorpion2185[m]>fundamentals for what?
14:58<sney>linux.
14:58<ratrace>unix-like operating systems
14:58<scorpion2185[m]>I can try now I have time. is there a guide?
14:58<sney>read tldp.org articles until it's not a mystery anymore.
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14:58<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: LFS is an excellent starter pack
14:58<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], start by playing with Gentoo so you can easily customise everything and then try LFS
14:59<ratrace>LFS before Gentoo
14:59*NthDegree senses he might get murdered again if he says Gentoo before LFS ;-p
14:59<ratrace>Gentoo is much higher level than LFS, with lotsa things predefined and convenient. emerge -va foo doesn't teach you anything about foo
14:59<amacater>There's wiki.debian.org / www.debian.org / debian-handbook for Debian.
14:59<scorpion2185[m]>anyway I can find root problems and report them so devs can fix them. and I fixed pulseaudio though is a workaround
14:59<sney>teflon brain
14:59<NthDegree>pulseaudio can run system-wide with an argument to allow it to run as root
15:00<scorpion2185[m]>it doesn't work
15:00<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: fixed what? if you want root you ru.... yes what NthDegree said
15:00<NthDegree>it's not recommended for obvious reasons
15:00<Sqrt{not}>scorpion2185[m], https://debian-handbook.info/
15:01<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], did you add root to the right groups? :P
15:01<ratrace>lol
15:01<NthDegree>(yes, I just said root needs to be in specific groups)
15:01<amacater>Various people have also found the Arch Linux wiki useful in the past
15:02<ratrace>NthDegree: plot twist. run centos or fedora where for some programs, root is just unprivileged nobody :9
15:02<scorpion2185[m]>MY solutiuon to PA: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/473769/sound-doesnt-work-properly-in-root-but-does-in-normal-user
15:02<sney>the arch wiki is a good resource for people who know what they're looking at. there are quite a few steps needed before that'll apply here
15:03<NthDegree>ratrace, bigger plot twist, I did that to my Bullseye
15:03*NthDegree is heading out because it's England vs. Italy now, can't miss that
15:03<scorpion2185[m]>NthDegree: so are you running as root?
15:03<ratrace>NthDegree: I run with my own Apparmor policies on many programs
15:04<NthDegree>scorpion2185[m], I have SELinux so root doesn't have full privileges
15:04<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: no the other way around, s/he runs unprivileged programs under MAC so if they should get exploited and become roots, that root is impotent, regular, unprivileged user.
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15:04<ratrace>I wish MAC was default on linux, instead of DAC. users and groups and permissions are so 1980s.
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15:08<scorpion2185[m]>ratrace: did you confirm that cababilities can make an user completely like root?
15:09<sney>scorpion2185[m]: why are you afraid to read the man page and try it yourself?
15:09<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: not completely. capabilities(7) are a way to granularly permit root-like .... capabilities... to processes without the need to run as root
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15:10<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: as an example, ping is now a fcap enabled program. it used to be setuid and run as root so it could open raw sockets.
15:10<otisolsen70>ratrace, NthDegree: https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap does not mention mounting /dev. What is the real way of doing that? /dev is not mentioned in my fstab.
15:10<ratrace>now it's a regular proces with cap_net_raw so it, run as a non-root user, can do that tiny bit normally reserved for root only
15:10<scorpion2185[m]>ah I knew it!!! "not completely"
15:11<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: because, again, you're asking wrong questions
15:11<vv221>ratrace, this MAC thing sounds good, do you have some documentation to recommend? ("MAC" is a bit too generic a term for blind searches)
15:11<ratrace>otisolsen70: mount --bind /dev /path/to/ch/root/dev but sometimes you'll need submounts too, depends on the program
15:12<ratrace>otisolsen70: _really_ use nspawn, it sets everything up, with a private /dev so you don't blow your system security
15:12<otisolsen70>ratrace, ok. What if I want to put the mount in the hosts's fstab?
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15:12<ratrace>vv221: Mandatory Access Control. Things like SELinux, Apparmor, grsec's RBAC, and others
15:12<ratrace>otisolsen70: nothing. nspawn manages all that without the need to mount manually
15:12<otisolsen70>ratrace, is nspawn part of the package debspawn?
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15:13<vv221>otisolsen70, for bind mounts in fstab, from my own system: https://debian-facile.org/paste-AE956DFA82-raw
15:13<ratrace>otisolsen70: no, it's systemd-nspawn(1)
15:13<vv221>otisolsen70, nspawn is from systemd-container
15:13<otisolsen70>ratrace, oh.
15:14<scorpion2185[m]>so taking advantage of my lacking of knowledge of capabil. s/ghe wanted to make me waste time
15:15<sney>learning is only a waste of time if you don't care about having the knowledge
15:15<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: what you're trying to do is the opposite of what kernel developers and distros maintainers are trying to do for the past many years
15:15<otisolsen70>ratrace, will look into the nspawn stuff. But just tried bind mounting /dev. I still get some kind of permission error when running the multiprocessing stuff
15:16<ratrace>otisolsen70: it's possible you need submounts. you can use --rbind but then you'll have issues tearing it down on systemd. so before you mount _any_ of the proc,sys,dev, run a mount namespace with `unshare -m`
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15:17<ratrace>so, like, assuming your debootstrap'd rootfs is in /mnt, you: unshare -m ; mount -R /dev /mnt/dev; mount -R /sys /mnt/sys; mount -t proc proc /mnt/proc ; chroot /mnt ; source /etc/profile (this last one optional, from the chroot shell)
15:17<otisolsen70>ratrace, IDK what mount namespace is?
15:18<ratrace>man namespaces ; man unshare
15:18<scorpion2185[m]>I don't want make everyone run as root or remove normal users, in many case non-root is needed, but just leave people that want to run as root free to do it
15:18<otisolsen70>ratrace, will do. Thanks a lot for your assistance!
15:19<ratrace>otisolsen70: but this is a "whole shebang" nuclear option exposing entire dev and sys and proc in the chroot. normall you'd want isolated, private dev and things. perhaps you just need the elementary nodes like /dev/{null,zero,...}, and you don't need block devices, hardware in general, etc...
15:20<ratrace>ergo: systemd-nspawn that does it for you, with the ability to tweak and bind optionally what you need extra
15:20<amacater>scorpion2185[m]: You're welcome to try. You're running against the security advice of the last 10 or so years, some programs will actively check for root EUID and refuse to run, others will run badly. X Windows will (mostly) run, I've no idea about all Wayland apps - but yes, if you want to live dangerously and give poor advice ...
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15:20<ratrace>scorpion2185[m]: nobody really wants to do that. the rare few persons don't know better but once they learn, they no longer want to either.
15:21<otisolsen70>ratrace, do you have an example of how this is set up in systemd-nspawn? I have very very little experience with systemd. Or maybe a tutorial/howto you can recommend?
15:21<scorpion2185[m]>what about Kali/Puppy devs? they are no beginners
15:22<ratrace>otisolsen70: ask google, I'm sure there's ton of 'em. it's a simple as running `systemd-nspawn -D /path/to/ch/root/ /path/to/process/youre/running`
15:22<vv221>Tonight dicussion made me realize I forgot an important test in my own software, thanks to all involved for that ;) — https://forge.dotslashplay.it/play.it/scripts/-/issues/288
15:23<ratrace>otisolsen70: or if you need more than the basics nspawn sets up, check the manpage on how to bind paths into the .... container it creates.
15:23<amacater>Kali run as root because for some pentesting functions that require access to hardware, that's helpful. Puppy is right offtopic and I've no idea at all what their security posture is these days.
15:23<amacater>Both probably assume knowledgeable users.
15:23<vv221>otisolsen70, I’m a nspawn user, maybe I can help too. What is your use case?
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15:25<vv221>If it’s only for "entering" a chroot previously created with debootstrap, you can do it with: systemd-nspawn -D /path/to/chroot
15:25<vv221>It will "automagically" handle all the /proc and /dev stuff for you.
15:26<ratrace>by creating a namespaced, private copies of them, btw
15:26<ratrace>by default no hardware nodes in /dev, for example
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15:27<vv221>I had not realized that before you told us about it, this is quite nice.
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15:31<otisolsen70>vv221, can I just run "systemd-nspawn -D /path/to/chroot" as root and then be done with it? Without having mounted anything? I mean is "that it"?
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15:34<otisolsen70>vv221, systemd-nspawn is not a command on my system. Which package do I need?
15:34<vv221>apt install systemd-container
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15:35<vv221>Then that’s right, you only need `systemd-nspawn -D /path/to/chroot` to be in a clean chroot with everything required mounted where it should be ;)
15:35<otisolsen70>vv221, I have previously seen containers doing odd stuff with network/firewalls etc. This was with Docker. Can I risk anything like that with systemd-container?
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15:35<otisolsen70>vv221, I am a bit reluctant to use any type of containers for this reason.
15:35<vv221>My nspawn containers have never messed with any setting of the host.
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15:36<vv221>THat does not mean it can *not* be done, but it does not seem to be the default ;)
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15:37<vv221>From my experience nspawn is much closer to schroot and other improved chroot systems than it is of Docker and other "black box" containers.
15:37<ratrace>otisolsen70: "containers" are just "namespaces". you're running namespaces all the time even without knowing :)
15:37<vv221>But maybe I’m biased by my strong dislike of Docker and anything related…
15:37<otisolsen70>ratrace, ok
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15:38<amacater>q
15:38<ratrace>nspawn is n(amespace)spawn
15:39<ratrace>chroot is a filesystem namespace.... -like. it's not quite a ns but very much like a filesystem ns
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15:41<vv221>nspawn can be used to run persistent containers too, but the command I gave you is only to get an interactive shell in the given chroot.
15:41<vv221>So once you `exit` out of it, done, no lingering process or mount points.
15:41<ratrace>just like chroot(1)
15:42<ratrace>oh... I mean...unlike chroot that only exits the fs namespace, but mounts remain, if you did them manually
15:42<vv221>Yes, then you can forget them for a couple days, rm -rf your obsolete chroot, and destroy your host /dev in the process ;P
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15:43<vv221>(does it sound like it happened to me more than once?)
15:43<ratrace>(yes)
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15:44<ratrace>which brings out a good point. nspawn can do readonly binds
15:45<vv221>I should look how it is done, for now I handle the extra mounts through /etc/fstab.
15:45<ratrace>--bind-ro
15:46<vv221>The full option would be --bind-ro=/path/on/host:/path/in/container ?
15:46<vv221>And --bind for rw bind mounts?
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15:51<ratrace>yea
15:51<ratrace>there's also --overlay(-ro) for more complex set-ups
15:52<ratrace>check the manpage, a lot of candy in systemd-nspawn. nice tool.
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15:56<otisolsen70>ratrace, vv221 : can I also use that nspawn as a normal user? Or only as root?
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15:57<pierre>j
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16:06<ratrace>otisolsen70: I don't know, never tried. I suppose it'd be possible if your shell runs with some relevant caps
16:06<tizef>no irc chan for https://wiki.debian.org/ ?
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16:08<amacater>Maybe try #debian-www ?
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16:16<tizef>amacater, i don't think so
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16:21<Sqrt{not}>tizef, it's there
16:21<tizef>Sqrt{not}, on #debian-www ?
16:22<Sqrt{not}>yep
16:22<tizef>thank you guys !
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16:34<PYRULITO>Hi. I am having this problem at boot... "usbhid 2-1.2:1.2: couldn't find an input interrupt endpoint"
16:34<jmcnaught>PYRULITO: hi, what are the other symptoms?
16:34<PYRULITO>I can guess my problem is about my Dell Laser Mouse MS3220
16:35<PYRULITO>no other symptons
16:35<PYRULITO>onlys this noise message.
16:35<jmcnaught>I would not worry about it if it is not causing any real problems.
16:35<ratrace>PYRULITO: in the console or in the logs?
16:36<PYRULITO>console
16:36<PYRULITO>no!
16:36<PYRULITO>logs.
16:36<PYRULITO>only logs.
16:36<ratrace>you can shush the kernel printk on the console via sysctl
16:36<ratrace>PYRULITO: is it spamming that line or just ocurs once on boot?
16:37<PYRULITO>once on boot
16:37<PYRULITO>every boot.
16:38<PYRULITO>mouse works fine.
16:38<PYRULITO>with all functions.
16:38<ratrace>so, what jmcnaught said.
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16:39<PYRULITO>Ok
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16:50<vv221>otisolsen70, until now I’ve only started the nspawn containers as root, despite often using an unprivileged user inside the chroot.
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16:51<vv221>It might be used with an unprivileged user too, but I’ve still to take some time for researching that first ;)
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18:05<markcnewb>Did i do this right? Hello everyone, I have a question... and i need help.
18:05<dvs>!ask
18:05<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
18:06<markcnewb>thank you. here we go. So, I really really dislike windows and i made the switch to manjaro.. Unfortunatly my new employment requires me to use a product called
18:08<markcnewb>Ring central - I tried to install this as a snap on manjaro, then i tried raw dogging it through Wine, that failed.. so i switched to the latest debian buster, rolling updates, not a stable one. Anyway. I could not for the life of me get the snap to open after i installed it and i could not get it working throught wine.. Sparkylinux failed it so did raw dog debian. I really do not want to use windows ever again but i cant get
18:08<markcnewb>I was so happy with Manjaro, but not a lot of things straight up work there, i thought debian would be easier.
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18:09<markcnewb>Can anyone tell me if even using ring cental is possible?
18:10<ratrace>markcnewb: why couldn't the snap start on debian?
18:10<markcnewb>@Ratrace - I installed it via the terminal. well. first the snap stuff.. then i installed ring central and it did not show up on my computer at all.
18:11<markcnewb>not in the program listings or anything, or the package managers available in sparky, its the same in debian.
18:11<amacater>Ring central - PABX, video, phone ... go the right thing?
18:11<ratrace>markcnewb: snaps aren't that well integrated with desktops on debian, but it probably installed fine. check into /snap/bin/ directory, something should be there
18:11<markcnewb>ah... well, i was so frustrated and i needed it by tomorrow, if i use the /snap/bin directory, it will work?
18:11<ratrace>might even be a .desktop you can copy off to ~/.local/share/applications/ or similar
18:12<NthDegree>I'm trying ringcentral now
18:12<markcnewb>NthDegree, thank you so much, im really new :)
18:12<NthDegree>and it works by installing the .deb as it shows on the site on Bullseye
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18:12<ratrace>markcnewb: no idea if it'll work or not. I just knoow snaps on debian don't automagically show up in desktop launcheres because they're missing that .desktop integration step, but they probably install fine and their runnables are in /snap/bin/
18:12<NthDegree>apt install /home/user/Downloads/RCMeetingsClientSetup.deb
18:12<NthDegree>that is all I did as root
18:12<NthDegree>and it works
18:13<amacater>NthDegree - where did you find it?
18:13<ratrace>frankly, you're better off with the snap, than manual, out-of-repo debs
18:13<NthDegree>https://support.ringcentral.com/download.html
18:13<markcnewb>ok.. legit im doing this, im going to copy and paste these instructions, re-install sparky linux and try again. I will return in 10 minutes lol
18:13<NthDegree>it's on their site and it's a generic .deb
18:13<ratrace>markcnewb: don't return with sparky linux questions, to #debian :)
18:14<NthDegree>yeah, we don't care if it fails on sparky linux
18:14<NthDegree>on proper Debian Bullseye I just tested it and it installs and executes
18:14<markcnewb>ok, last question then, Debian and Sparky are not the same? It said that sparky was debian? im honestly not trolling guys
18:14<blast007>!sparky
18:14<dpkg>SparkyLinux is a Linux distribution based on <testing>. It is not supported in #debian or #debian-next. http://sparkylinux.org/ See also <based on debian>.
18:14<ratrace>NthDegree: do they have a repo one can stick into sources.list? can I check that myself? yes, yes I can. it's easier to ask NthDegree who already probably has it all on screen :))
18:14<amacater>Essentially: This is a Debian support channel, unfortunately, we can't cater for every Debian derivative
18:14<NthDegree>ratrace, I'll check now
18:15<markcnewb>oh, i understand now!
18:15<markcnewb>ok... time to install that debian buster.
18:15<ratrace>now you're talking! :)
18:15<markcnewb>any love for KDE plasma?
18:15<NthDegree>Debian Bullseye works, I can't speak for Buster tho
18:15<NthDegree>however the package works for Ubuntu 14.04+ so it in theory should work for Buster
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18:17<NthDegree>ratrace, the developers are crap and don't offer a repo
18:17<markcnewb>yes, phone central are garbage humans.
18:17<markcnewb>used by garbage companies.
18:17<markcnewb><3
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18:17<ratrace>so a snap is way better than random out of repo .deb
18:18<markcnewb>im learning that too, it seems. people love the snaps and elusive flatpacks im hearing about
18:18<ratrace>it's not love from my end, but convenience to handle out-of-repo software in cleanest way possible: containerized installation.
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18:20<NthDegree>markcnewb, https://i.imgur.com/iXdvgs6.png =D
18:20<NthDegree>I'd rather the out-of-repo .deb in this case than a snap since it's actually very generic and unlikely to break upgrades
18:21<markcnewb>NthDegree - You single hand, saved a man from using windows again. <3
18:21<NthDegree>Depends: libglib2.0-0, libxcb-shape0, libxcb-shm0, libxcb-xfixes0, libxcb-randr0, libxcb-image0, libfontconfig1, libgl1-mesa-glx, libegl1-mesa, libxi6, libsm6, libxrender1, libpulse0, libxcomposite1, libxslt1.1, libsqlite3-0, libxcb-keysyms1, libxcb-xtest0, libdbus-1-3, ibus
18:21<NthDegree>^^ none of that is versioned too strongly
18:22<markcnewb>ok gents.. time to wipe that windows trash...
18:22<markcnewb>ohh why not another question.
18:22<markcnewb>Is swap, virtual memort?
18:22<markcnewb>memory? more or less?
18:22<NthDegree>yes if you're comparing it to what I think you are
18:22<NthDegree>on Windows it's called a swap file too
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18:23<markcnewb>now, is that useful if you have 12 gigs of ram?
18:23<markcnewb>linux swap?
18:23<NthDegree>yes, definitely have some swap
18:23<markcnewb>yes sir.
18:23<markcnewb>thank you Nth.
18:23<markcnewb>brb
18:23<NthDegree>Linux does overcommit unlike Windows but it's still prudent to have some just in case
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18:32<ratrace>actually page file on windows is different from swap file on linux
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18:33<ratrace>(and on linux you definitely need swap because without it, the kernel behaves very unstable, in high memory pressure situations)
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18:37<NthDegree>if you disable overcommit on Linux then you can have the Windows behaviour
18:37<NthDegree>but then you need loads of swap space, just like on Windows
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18:39<NthDegree>and then you get apps which are broken on Linux without overcommit... like Chrome
18:39<Sqrt{not}>if you have a windows box handy, you could swap to samba share
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18:41<NthDegree>like Chrome on Linux seems to allocate 36.7GB worth of address space it never actually uses
18:41<PYRULITO>Ayone has expertise with Unbound? I can install with sucess Unbound on Stretch. I had to disable ipv6 because my ISP doesn't have support for ipv6. The Unbound package install, but the service do not start without ipv6 support. Anyone knows how to start Unbound without ipv6 support?
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18:41<NthDegree>PYRULITO, can't you set IPv6 to link-local only?
18:42<PYRULITO>Ayone has expertise with Unbound? I can not install with sucess Unbound on Stretch. I had to disable ipv6 because my ISP doesn't have support for ipv6. The Unbound package install, but the service do not start without ipv6 support. Anyone knows how to start Unbound without ipv6 support?
18:42<PYRULITO>on Linux?
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18:43<PYRULITO>You mean reactivate ipv6 suport on Linux.
18:43<NthDegree>yes, but set it to only link-local
18:43<PYRULITO>Oh.
18:44<PYRULITO>How?
18:45<NthDegree>depends how you've configured the networking
18:45<NthDegree>old fashioned way you'll want this page: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration
18:45<NthDegree>for the modern option there's this https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
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18:47<PYRULITO>I edited /etc/sysctl.conf
18:47<PYRULITO>net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1 / net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1 / net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1
18:47<NthDegree>why do it for all interfaces? :|
18:48<abrotman>are you talking about disabling IPv6 for the daemon, or for responses?
18:48<NthDegree>surely you'd just wanna do it for the one you're having trouble with, right?
18:48<PYRULITO>not use
18:48<sney>does unbound require an ipv6 address or just available support? if the latter, 'iface eth0 inet manual' in /etc/network/interfaces would keep your system from trying to configure ipv6 while leaving it "enabled"
18:48<sney>errr, iface eth0 inet6 manual
18:49<NthDegree>one could also cheat and probably do something like: net.ipv6.conf.enp2s0.accept_ra = 0
18:50<sney>really depends on what unbound is looking for
18:50<PYRULITO>loopback
18:50<PYRULITO>I guess.
18:51<sney>well, here are some ideas, test them and see what happens
18:51<NthDegree>if it's just an ISP router handing out bogus RAs that should stop it receiving an IPv6 IP if it's not DHCPv6'd (swap enp2s0 with your NIC)
18:52<NthDegree>it's my bedtime tho, so I'ma leave you in sney's more than capable hands =D
18:52<sney>I am barely here atm
18:52<PYRULITO>I want to use it just for local dns-over-tls resolver
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18:55<NthDegree>PYRULITO, systemd-resolved has that
18:55*NthDegree swiftly runs off to bed
18:55<PYRULITO>systemd-resolved?
18:56<NthDegree>I don't know if it had the feature in Stretch but I believe Buster has it
19:01<PYRULITO>Nothing on stretch.
19:01<Sqrt{not}>I just checked on the local stretch box, and systemd-resolvd is there
19:02<Sqrt{not}>systemd-resolved
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19:03<Sqrt{not}>it's in package systemd
19:04<PYRULITO>It's a package to install.
19:04<PYRULITO>?
19:06<Sqrt{not}>yes, but standard stretch would already have it I think
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19:07<PYRULITO>There is a... pppd-dns.service
19:08<PYRULITO>pppd-dns.service | loaded | inactive | dead | Restore /etc/resolv.conf if...
19:08<PYRULITO>etc.
19:08<PYRULITO>Is this one?
19:08<Sqrt{not}>if you are seeing services like that, you probably have systemd installed
19:09<PYRULITO>Yes, I have systemd installed.
19:09<PYRULITO>I do not see systemd-resolved.
19:09<Sqrt{not}>then you should have systemd-resolvd
19:09<Sqrt{not}>systemd-resolved
19:10<PYRULITO>I am using...
19:10<PYRULITO>#systemctl --all | grep resolvd
19:10<PYRULITO>#systemctl --all | grep dns
19:10<PYRULITO>and nothing.
19:11<Sqrt{not}> do you have the file: /lib/systemd/system/systemd-resolved.service
19:11<PYRULITO>How are you seen this?
19:12<PYRULITO>Yes.
19:12<PYRULITO>I found the file
19:12<PYRULITO>now?
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19:13<PYRULITO>I need to load it on service?
19:14<PYRULITO>Never mind. I will find it later. I have to go.
19:14<PYRULITO>Thank You by The Help!
19:14<PYRULITO>@Sqrt{not}
19:14<Sqrt{not}>try: man systemd-resolved
19:14<PYRULITO>Ok
19:15<PYRULITO>See Ya.
19:15<Sqrt{not}>later. good luck
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21:32<clawh>hi! i've problem with my system. xorg freezes and sound loops during high load. i use xorg session. can this problem be caused by proprietary nvidia drivers?
21:32<clawh>if i get rid of proprietary nvidia drivers and if i switch to intel gpu, will this problem still occur?
21:33<sney>it's unlikely for the nvidia driver to cause that by itself
21:33<sney>however, you're describing optimus hardware, which can have some special weird issues
21:34<sney>if you're using debian 10, you may want to upgrade to testing. testing, aka bullseye, will be released as debian 11 in a few weeks. it has a newer xorg, mesa, and kernel that all have optimus improvements.
21:35<clawh>i've running debian testing
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21:35<clawh>if not nvidia, then why system sometimes freezes during high load?
21:35<clawh>how can i avoid this?
21:35<sussudio>will it have megatron improvements?
21:36<sussudio>clawh: check the logs if there's any errors in there
21:36<sney>check for efi/bios updates from your laptop vendor, sometimes that can improve the video multiplexing performance
21:37<sney>also if "high load" includes high memory usage, you might be swapping; if you have a lot of physical memory, you can try using zram/zswap instead of having swap on disk.
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21:38<clawh>it often happens when i have high memory and cpu usage
21:38<clawh>i often compile software in vms
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21:39<clawh>would switching from nvidia to intel gpu cause that system wouldn't be freezing during high mem&cpu load?
21:39<clawh>or doesn't matter in this case which gpu i use?
21:39<sney>you are free to try that, but I think it'll make it worse
21:40<clawh>why do you think i'll make it worse?
21:40<sney>because the nvidia gpu has dedicated video memory that isn't affected by your virtual machines
21:41<sney>the problem is high resource usage. if you reduce the amount of available memory to the system, then the problem will happen sooner
21:41<clawh>if you were me, would you leave nvidia drivers running on the system?
21:42<clawh>*proprietary, not nouveau
21:42<sney>if I were you, I'd look at system logs during the freeze, like sussudio suggested. and I would look for actual evidence of a problem rather than guessing that it's caused by nvidia.
21:42<clawh>i'll try to reduce ram usage by my virtual machines
21:42<sney>I would also look at the documentation for my vm hypervisor, and see if I can tell it not to use all of the host cpu/ram.
21:43<clawh>i use libvirt+qemu
21:43<clawh>libvirt+qemu is better than virtualbox
21:44<sussudio>why are you compiling in a vm at all
21:45<sney>it's normal to build stuff in vms or chroots, when you need a different environment than the host
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22:00<clawh>i have set vm memory and cpu usage to max, maybe it's a cause of system freezing?
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22:01<clawh>maybe i'll lower resource usage
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23:59-!-RedSoxFan07 [~Thunderbi@d-159-250-218-50.ct.cpe.atlanticbb.net] has joined #debian
23:59-!-RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian
---Logclosed Mon Jul 12 00:00:07 2021