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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-14

---Logopened Wed Jul 14 00:00:10 2021
00:02<r4fkramer>Sqrt{not} my fs is btrfs here. I saw 'extundelete' and it is about ext3 and ext4 fs
00:03<r4fkramer>is there another tool similar for btrfs ?
00:04<raven523>did you make a snapshot before you deleted them?
00:05<r4fkramer>no raven523, I didn't do it
00:06<raven523>I don't think there's any undelete tool for btrfs that is as good as extundelete
00:08<r4fkramer>There is testdisk and photorec by command line, but I'd like another tool
00:10<r4fkramer>According 'extundelete' can't be used to recover any file from other fs that is not ext3 or ext4. So, it is not useful for btrfs
00:10<r4fkramer>According extundelete man page
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00:14<Sqrt{not}>r4fkramer, correct.
00:16<Tj>r4fkramer: have you seen https://github.com/danthem/undelete-btrfs ?
00:19<r4fkramer>No Tj I did not even know there was this version for btrfs. I hope it can can run in Debian. Thank You Very Much for Help
00:19<Tj>r4fkramer: read the README carefully; it isn't a magic bullet
00:20<r4fkramer>Yes, that is the first thing I did: downloaded this file before any action. Thank you :)
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00:41<mx>ok
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01:52<FelixActually>I have a weird file in my home folder which has (I think) two characters which show as the Unicode missing character box, and a Japanese (I think) character. It has a number in it, the name of one of my programs, the hostname of my computer, numbers and letters, and what might be the UUID of one of my partitions. It's existed since the 6th of June. Does anyone know what it could be?
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01:54<FelixActually>(As in the two Unicode missing characters and Japanese character are the filename)
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01:57<somiaj>what is in the file?
01:58<FelixActually>somiaj: I mentioned that in my original message
01:58<FelixActually>"It has a number in it, the name of one of my programs, the hostname of my computer, numbers and letters, and what might be the UUID of one of my partitions."
01:59<FelixActually>Each on a separate line
01:59<somiaj>ahh missed that, anyways, I sometimes have a bad paste in a terminal or strange command basically do 'random stuff' > 'strange file name'
01:59<somiaj>it is most likely just due to some strange issue, and can probably safely be deleted
02:00<FelixActually>And it wouldn't be due to a virus?
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02:01<somiaj>I wouldn't think so, but you can run rootkits and various other tools to check for things.
02:01<FelixActually>I don't really do stuff in the terminal that could cause such a thing
02:01<FelixActually>What tools would you suggest?
02:02<somiaj>rkhunter is something you can try
02:02<FelixActually>Okay, thanks
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02:48<quadrat>FelixActually make sure that nothing runs on the computer, that you don't know. not sure how well you know the processes which run in the background
02:49<FelixActually>quadrat: How can I check?
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02:50<quadrat>something like top, htop, or gui like ksysguard (kde) gnome-system-manager (gnome)
02:53<FelixActually>Well, I don't see anything obvious that would be a problem there
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02:53<FelixActually>But I don't know this stuff
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03:07<FelixActually>quadrat: How would I know what to look for?
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03:08<Tj>FelixActually: use "file path/to/file" to find out if the file's magic signature is recognised
03:08<FelixActually>Magic signature?
03:08<FelixActually>It just says "ASCII text"
03:10<azeem_>FelixActually: what's the name of the file?
03:10<FelixActually>褈罚
03:11<azeem_>hrm
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03:12<FelixActually>"hrm" is never a comforting response... :)
03:14<azeem_>maybe try "lsof | grep 褈罚" (or whatever that file name is) to see if any processes have it open
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03:15<FelixActually>I don't have that installed. Is it supposed to be installed by default?
03:15<FelixActually>Nothing showed up in the output
03:16<azeem_>lsof is also the package name
03:16<FelixActually>Do I need to enclose the grep expression in something?
03:16<FelixActually>Yeah, I installed it
03:16<azeem_>well if it's weird non-ascii chars who knows
03:16<FelixActually>Is ' the enclose character?
03:16<azeem_>if nothing shows up if you just run lsof, try running it as root
03:17<azeem_>yes, try that
03:17<FelixActually>A very large amount of text showed up when I ran lsof by itself
03:17<FelixActually>So it's working
03:17<azeem_>you can manually look through it maybe
03:17<FelixActually>And enclosing the filename in ' ' didn't work
03:18<azeem_>or at least grep for you home directory
03:18<FelixActually>When I say "very large amount of text" I mean "it would take me a year to do read through that :D
03:18<FelixActually>Way too much shows up just with my home directory too
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03:22<azeem_>then it's probably not that important
03:23<FelixActually>I just wonder where it came from
03:23<FelixActually>It's weird
03:24<jm_>didn't you say it contains a name of one of your programs?
03:24<FelixActually>Yeah
03:24<FelixActually>But it's a jigsaw puzzle game
03:24<FelixActually>palapeli
03:25<FelixActually>And I can't imagine why a jigsaw puzzle game would make a file in my home folder with Japanese characters, the hostname of my PC, and apparently a partition UUID
03:25<jm_>maybe try deleting/renaming the file, then run that and see if it shows up again
03:26<FelixActually>I'm pretty sure I didn't run the game on the day the file was created but I'll try that
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05:02<wyre>is apt an alias for aptitude? 🤔
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07:11<cowtipper>Hey, im trying to install debian now for the first time im using the non-free installer
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07:11<cowtipper>It asks to load iwl-debug-yoyo.bin from removable media during the installer but looking around I cant find that file?
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07:12<ratrace>cowtipper: I think you can ignore that one. do you actually have a problem with iwlwifi?
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07:12<cowtipper>Yeah if i do it lists an unknown device starting with wwx in my networking tab as well as the wifi
07:12<cowtipper>the wifi fails to exhange keys
07:13<cowtipper>i triple checked the key is right
07:13<cowtipper>*the networkign section of installer
07:14<ratrace>btw, the reference bug #966218
07:14<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/966218 in src:linux (open, upstream, fixed-upstream): «firmware: failed to load iwl-debug-yoyo.bin (-2)»; severity: minor; opened: 2020-07-24; last modified: 2021-06-19.
07:15<cowtipper>ill wait for debian 12 testing to try it then with newer kernal
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07:24<jm_>isn't bullseys installer already available?
07:25<ratrace>yes, but bullseye is 11.
07:25<ratrace>Maybe the one who tips the cows wanted to wait for 12 to cut out as Testing
07:26<grawity>I'm sitting here trying to decide on zfs partition layout
07:27<grawity>are there any reasons against putting the OS and data all on the same pool?
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07:29<ratrace>grawity: I'm sure some benefits of separation exist. That said, I never cared for them. one way or the other, even in the OS pool you need different snapshot policies for different datasets, so in the end it doesn't matter
07:29<ratrace>(unless of course different underlying media automatically calls for separate pools, but tht's not what you meant I suppose)
07:29<grawity>I just have four 2TB disks
07:29<grawity>the original firmware of this thing had a separate rpool for the OS
07:30<grawity>but the original firmware of this thing ran Solaris
07:30<ratrace>zfs is pooled fs. there's huge benefit of that. if you separate, you might artificially re-create the problem of non-pooled-fs: oops I made it too small :)
07:31<ratrace>and you can't shrink a pool, only enlarge, for the other way around. so... I would always use one pool
07:31<grawity>hmm
07:31<grawity>so just a "/boot" pool separate then, and OS+data together?
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07:33<ratrace>I don't do boot pool. it's useless, just one small partition of fairly volatile data
07:34<grawity>yeah but then your main pool is feature-limited to what GRUB happens to support
07:34<ratrace>and also I want initramfs dropbear'd ssh access in _without_ the annoyances of out of tree zfs, in case of recovery
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07:34<ratrace>grawity: it's not. grub doesn't care about rootfs filesystem. the initramfs deals with that.
07:35<grawity>and where does grub load the kernel & initramfs from?
07:35<ratrace>oh... sorry, I wasn't clear. I do separate /boot, just not as zfs.
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07:35<grawity>I mean I could keep /boot as ext4 or vfat, but then it's on just one disk
07:35<ratrace>it's ext4 atop of mdadm raid1
07:35<grawity>(unless I roll with mdraid, in which case I have to admin two completely different RAID systems on a single machine)
07:36<ratrace>it's mostly fire (set up once) and forget.
07:36<grawity>maybe I should go with btrfs though
07:36<ratrace>if you wish zfs on /boot, nothing stops ya. it's just tha tin my experience having "plain" ext4 for recovery purposes paid off more than once.
07:36<ratrace>grawity: ++
07:36<grawity>personal servers run on btrfs, this is for work (although it will only ever hold backups, not live data)
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07:36<ratrace>the out of tree-ness of zfs can be a huge pain for recovery
07:37<ratrace>we use both zfs and btrfs in changing roles between production and backup
07:40<grawity>hmm
07:41<grawity>has there been any actual data loss with btrfs?
07:41<grawity>I do see people in the mailing list getting their filesystems in an un-mountable state sometimes
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07:41<selckin>didn't they stop developing it?
07:42<ratrace>buncha bugs in the past, but these days it's very stable, save from the raid5/6 debacle, but evne that's not bad if you mirror the metadata
07:42<ratrace>selckin: who?
07:42<selckin>think redhat took it over for a while and then abadoned it
07:43<ratrace>RH is not the developer of it. they never "took it over", just decided not to support it because they want to sell their own Stratis. btrfs is very much active and constantly developed. RH "dropping" it, but then Fedora defaulting to it, is entirely corporate poly-tics going on.
07:43<selckin>anyway, for a filesystem i want some really wide adoptation with people trying to find the 1 in a million bugs and fix them
07:43<ratrace>how about Fedora and OpenSuse defaulting to btrfs? millions enough? :)
07:44<ratrace>grawity: yes, corruption of some specific superblock metadat may result in unmountable filesystems.
07:44<ratrace>(any fs)
07:44<selckin>yeah, sounds better then i thought
07:44<vv221>I’ll switch to btrfs when it is the default choice of Debian installer, and not before that ;P
07:44<grawity>ratrace: yeah but how common is it for any given fs
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07:46<ratrace>grawity: if you have redundancy, chances of that happening are far less. note that both btrfs and zfs are complex, cow filesystems with complex structures, metadata, hierarchy. that's... fragile without redundancy.
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07:47<ratrace>ext4 on the other side of the spectrum is much simpler, dumber, so it can't end up in that scenario so easily, but then it also has no clue whether parts of it are corrupt or not, except some places in metadata, fsck'able.
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07:48<ratrace>but wiht any filesystems: you need backups. with newer btrfs progs (5.something onward), it's much less prone to unmountability errors, and in the worst of cases can be salvaged in readonly mode
07:48<grove>We once had a btrfs on work that took three weeks to mount
07:48<ratrace>millions of snapshots? :)
07:50<grove>I don't remember, but one of my colleagues looked at the code and talked to the developers of it, and it turned out it was supposed to behave like that
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07:54<ratrace>I can't think of a situation where it'd do that, unless there's metadata changes going on through mount options (eg, space_cache), or it has to enumerate through _huge_ list of snapshots. I also can't remember if rebalancing or layout change is possible via mount options, which would do that then
07:55<grove>It might very well have contained quite a few snapshots (it held some backups, and we used snapshots to keep data from different times, and there was probebly a filesystem - with it's own set of snapshots - for each of the servers it held backups for)
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07:57<grawity>hmm tbh the only thing I don't like about btrfs is replacing a disk
07:57<grawity>iirc in zfs it's "pull the old disk, insert the new disk, zfs replace"
07:57<ratrace>grawity: same with btrfs
07:57<grawity>while in btrfs it's "pull the old disk, insert the new disk, btrfs replace, it'll spit out a *ton* of I/O errors to dmesg but nevermind those it's ok"
07:58<grawity>and yeah it works ok but doesn't stop me from worrying
07:58<ratrace>I don't remember those. maybe they fixed it in recent versions?
07:59<grawity>dunno, in 5.9 it still held a ref to the nonexistent disk and kept trying to read from it during replace
08:00<grove>The only thing is that the zfs tools are a little picky with specifying which disk is to be replaced - I think it was unable to use one unique identified but wanted another
08:00<grove>s/identified/intifier/
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08:10<otisolsen70>What is a realiable way of checking whether a specific network interface, e.g. eth0, is up or down from a shellscript?
08:11<otisolsen70>I think I have to define what I mean by up: I mean that it is active and has an IP address.
08:12<vv221>You can get the up/down state from:
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08:12<vv221>ip addr show eth0 | grep --only-matching 'state [A-Z]\+'
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08:12<FelixActually>somiaj: I downloaded rkhunter but when I do --update it says "invalid WEB_CMD configuration option: Relative pathname: "/usr/bin/wget" "
08:12<ratrace>otisolsen70: note that having an IP and being "up" doesn't mean the ineternet, for example, is available :)
08:13<vv221>otisolsen70, for the IP it might be a bit trickier, I guess `ip addr show eth0 | awk something` could help.
08:13<ratrace>I had to whip up a ping test service and make Bind rely on it, or else DNSSEC key fetching would fail and break the resolver
08:13<ratrace>and if you used networkd, then networkctl has nicely details info on status
08:13<otisolsen70>ratrace, right. I am specifically interested in the situation where eth0 is up but connected to a network that does not route to internet. In that case, I want to bring the interface down.
08:14<grawity>so you want to check where the default route goes, not whether it has an address
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08:15<otisolsen70>grawity, correct. THis is really what I am after. Problem is that this is bit tricky'er as this device moves around alot. And I have found it difficult to find this based on output from route -n
08:16<grawity>ip -json route show default | jq -r '.[].dev'
08:16<grawity>hmmm no
08:16<grawity>need to sort by metric as well I guess, in case there are several
08:17<grawity>`ip -json route get <some_arbitrary_ip_address>` would give a more specific result
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08:17<otisolsen70>grawity, the situation that occurs sometimes is that the device is connected to ethernet and gets an IP addr and a default gw from a DHCP server. Then sets up a default route through that gw with metric=100. But it does not lead anywhere. Then it also is connected to wifi via wlan0 and has an IP and gw from dhcp there with route metric=600. So it will keep trying the route to nowhere.. Even when it has a perfectly working connection
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08:18<grawity>if the device used NetworkManager, you could let NM check for connectivity and automatically adjust the metrics accordingly
08:19<otisolsen70>grawity, so my plan was to periodically do an internet connectivity test (e.g. get a certain URL that must be reachable). If internet is determined to be down. Then check if eth0 is up and has an IP address. If it has, then do something like "ifdown eth0" or maybe delete the route or something.
08:20<grawity>ok, so `ip route get` is a good option because you already have a specific destination, and it tells you exactly which route the kernel is choosing for it
08:23<otisolsen70>grawity, NM is used for the wifi ifaces. Not for ethernet
08:23<grawity>why not
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08:36<otisolsen70>grawity, because a bunch of aliases and stuff is already configured using /etc/network/interfaces on eth0
08:36<otisolsen70>grawity, and when it is on a network where this applies, then it should exist...
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08:49<otisolsen70>grawity, how does NM check for connectivity and adjust metrics?
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08:50<grawity>it tries to fetch a configured URL and compares the result against specified
08:50<otisolsen70>grawity, oh, so I have to provide the URL?
08:50<grawity>I think so
08:50<otisolsen70>grawity, does NM check specifically through a particular device? Or does it just "curl $url" and let the routing table figure it out?
08:50<grawity>some other distros already provide their own, Debian probably doesn't because "phoning back"
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08:51<grawity>it uses libcurl, but specifically asks it to bind to the device that it's checking
08:51<grawity>so yeah if you have multiple default routes then it checks each of them individually
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09:11<otisolsen70>grawity, ok
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09:14<otisolsen70>grawity, if I move eth0 into being managed by NM does this mean that NM will handle all this for me automatically? And ensure that if eth0 is connected to a network but this network is not routed to internet, then it will connect to another network via wifi?
09:15<grawity>the latter two are mostly independent, I think
09:15<Kolusion>If anyone knows where Andy is hiding, let him know I ended up going with Ubuntu because it has 5 years of security support. Also please tell him that I invite him to check it out. Thanks
09:15<grawity>specifically, what NM does is add 20000 to the default route's metric if it has no internet access through that route
09:15<otisolsen70>grawity, ok.
09:16<grawity>so you'd have 100 vs 600 if both links have internet, but 20100 vs 600 (wifi becoming preferred) if ethernet does not
09:16<otisolsen70>grawity, that sounds like it would work.
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09:21<mepy>Hello guys! I am a new Debian user :)
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09:46<choozy>Welcome do Debian mepy
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09:51<mepy>ahah !
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09:53<mepy>Wonderful
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10:05<skrrrt>Ok I bootet into a live usb
10:05<skrrrt>What should I use ?
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10:06<skrrrt>http://imgur.com/gallery/BgBlfyM
10:07<skrrrt>Somebody comented on imgur that I can attempt to do something with the hdd if I have a live usb
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10:08<skrrrt>To refresh your memory :http://imgur.com/gallery/9JBwhw5
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10:12<Fraggle2>skrrrt: if you _really_ need the data, try a professional data rescue service, otherwise you could try ddrescue
10:13<skrrrt>Fraggle2: whats ddrescue ?
10:13<skrrrt>Is that a command ?
10:13<Fraggle2>yes
10:13<skrrrt>I'm already in the live version
10:13<vv221>https://packages.debian.org/buster/gddrescue
10:14<vv221>The purpose of ddrescue is to make an image of a faulty device, then you can try restoring content from the image.
10:14<skrrrt>But it's a minimal version with no ui exept terminal
10:14<vv221>This way you avoid worsening the state of the device.
10:14<skrrrt>Ok I'll try
10:17<skrrrt>vv221: but it says -bash command not found
10:17<vv221>What says that?
10:17<skrrrt>The terminal. I think I need to be root
10:17<skrrrt>But Idk how
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10:18<vv221>On live systems, you can usually become root with `sudo -i` (no password).
10:18<vv221>I don’t remember if it is the case of Debian Live.
10:19<Sqrt{not}>debian live password for user "user" is password "live"
10:19<vv221>And it has unrestricted sudo access?
10:19<Sqrt{not}>yes
10:19<vv221>Thanks, I’ll try to remember that ;)
10:23<skrrrt>Do I have to install ddrescue ?
10:24<vv221>I don’t have the context, so helpful advice would be tricky ;)
10:25<Fraggle2>skrrrt: if it does not come with the live system, use sudo apt install gddrescue
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10:26<Fraggle2>the command is calles ddrescue, the package is called gddresuce
10:26<Fraggle2>gddrescue
10:28<Fraggle2>check that there is enough disk space on the target
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10:31<wwilliam>how do i decrypt a file with gpg but create a new unencrypted file? im doing gpg -d file ask me for passphrase and then just show me the content of the file. I need to creat unencrypted ourput file please?
10:32<grawity>gpg -o unencrypted_file.txt -d file.gpg
10:32<grawity>though normally '>' redirection should work too (as in, gpg -d file.gpg > file.txt)
10:33<skrrrt>I plugg in the ethernet cable to my pc and run 'apt update ' and then this starts to appear on my screen randomly: http://imgur.com/gallery/lRWRtIE
10:34<wwilliam>grawity: it created another encrypted file
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10:34<grawity>how do you know that
10:34<wwilliam>cat newfiledecrypted
10:34<wwilliam>� F� :�SK��Eʊ���n.Y��>���x���h�d�Z��I���.1��N�~R4,^���A�D�o��t�67��;�
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10:34<grawity>ok but how do you know that's an "encrypted file" and not just the...actual file?
10:34<wwilliam>gpg -o newfiledecrypted -d newfile.gpg
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10:36<Fraggle2>skrrrt: seems that your live stick also has problems
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10:36<Fraggle2>skrrrt: was the defect hdd also connected via usb?
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10:37<skrrrt>Fraggle2: No the defect hdd is conected via sata
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10:38<wwilliam>grawity: It works now I am not sure what was up thank you.
10:39<Fraggle2>skrrrt: have you tried the hdd on another pc? maybe your machine has a defect
10:39<Fraggle2>very strang that both the usb stick and the sata disk have problems
10:39<skrrrt>Fraggle2: don't have another pc :D
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10:41<skrrrt>Fraggle: my bios is really weird tho. It has a cmos fail AB and B4 or hotplug or something ... :/:/:/
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10:46<Sqrt{not}>skrrrt, you probably should work on that bios and/or cmos problem first
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10:52<Fraggle2>skrrrt: maybe time to get one ;-)
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10:59<skrrrt>Sqrt{not}: I tried everything. The only way I can boot is if I pull out bios battery and cmos jumper also plugg out all usb ports and the hdd on the motherboard then wait for a couple of minutes and then only put the bios battery and cmos jumper back in and power on the pc so I can get to the bios otherwise the bios just freezes up and dies. Then one after another I can plugg the usb ports and hdd back in. But wait there is
10:59<skrrrt>more :| I have to plug the usb which I want to boot from and exit the bios and enter the boot menu when I click 'esc' there is like a one secon time frame where I have to push 'f10' otherwise I have to start all over again. Fraggle2 is right. I think I need a new PC.
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11:07<Sqrt{not}>skrrrt, is it possible there is a bios update for that machine?
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11:09<amacater>skrrrt: At this point, you're much more likely to kill your PC utterly by connecting / disconnecting headers and pins. People throw perfectly good machines away these days ... try and get one of those
11:10<skrrrt>amacater: wheeereee dude
11:10<skrrrt>Who are those people
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11:13<skrrrt>Sqrt{not}: when I try to update it, it can't find the update 'no ffs found'
11:13<amacater>Depends where you are in the world: people quite often offer old computers for free on community groups here in UK - Freecycle.
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11:14<amacater>You may find that your local electronics recycling place has five or six non-working computers and will give you one if you fix one of the others.
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11:15<amacater>You may find that a company closes down and disposes of computers en masse
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11:16<amacater>You may even find that someone is recycling computers for needy individuals eg Reglue
11:17-!-BrianG61UK [~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:cd03:ace1:a8da:7078] has joined #debian
11:17-!-BrianG61UK is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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11:20<zleap>greetings from debian 11
11:20<Fraggle2>skrrrt: if you are on evil FB, there are local give-away groups
11:21-!-alice [~redarmy@host-80-95-44-62.dsl.sura.ru] has joined #debian
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11:22<skrrrt>I'll try my best thanks guys
11:23<skrrrt>Fraggle2: whats evil FB. Are you a facebooker :D
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11:27<Fraggle2>I have to admit it.
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11:37<alice>Hey! May I bother you? I need help, but not with my server, it's a personal matter. May I ask an off-topic question? Please don't mistake my message for spam.
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11:39<bremner>alice: #debian-offtopic is there for offtopic questions
11:39<alice>bremner: Ok! Thanks.
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11:55<itsmekhob>hi
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11:56-!-narispo is "narispo" on #debian #tor
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11:56-!-ax56234 is "truth" on #debian
11:56<itsmekhob>hi
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11:57<itsmekhob>hi
11:57<Sqrt{not}>hi itsmekhob
11:58<itsmekhob>fine, thanks Sqrt
11:58-!-madez [~madez@ip-176-198-251-181.hsi05.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
11:58-!-madez is "madez" on #debian
11:58<itsmekhob>how are you?
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11:59<itsmekhob>could you tell me whst is the purpus of thisapp, please
11:59<Sqrt{not}>itsmekhob, OK, but this channel is for tech support for debian. There are other channels for socializing.
12:00<Sqrt{not}>!irc
12:00<dpkg>IRC is Internet Relay Chat, the means to provide #debian to its patrons. Debian IRC channels are listed at http://wiki.debian.org/IRC . Please read http://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc . Ask me about <irc tutorial> and <faq>. See also <debstats> and <irclog>.
12:00<itsmekhob>when I have problem, I can ask it here,
12:00<itsmekhob>perfecto
12:00<Sqrt{not}>yes :)
12:00<Sqrt{not}>!chat
12:00<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
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12:01-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite @#oolite-dev #haiku #radeon #dri-devel
12:01<itsmekhob>thank you, that is very of you to inform me
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14:30<jim>how can I find the bugs in emacs-nox package?
14:31<jmcnaught>https://bugs.debian.org/emacs-nox
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14:33<jim>jmcnaught, thanks
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14:42<tpefreedom>Are there any usb wifi adapters that work out of the box with normal debian isos?
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14:43<jmcnaught>tpefreedom: this site might help you find one: https://h-node.org/wifi/catalogue/en/1/1/undef/undef/undef/USB/wifi-works/undef
14:44<mason>tpefreedom: https://ryf.fsf.org/products
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14:45<sarnold>heh, does the webchat open links in that current window?
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14:46<mason>sarnold: Oh, was he gone by the time I pasted that?
14:46<sarnold>mason: no, he left a minute after
14:46<mason>ah, hm
14:47<mason>Hope he noted it. It's hard to find that page even if you know you're looking for it.
14:47<mason>I've suggested linking it from the front page.
14:48<sarnold>I knew about the project from the talos folks, but had no idea it extended to something like wifi dongles :)
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14:54<scorpion2185[m]>can I join debian-devel from revolt (Deb pkg)?
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14:58<mason>sarnold: All kinds of stuff. It's supposed to be a comprehensive reference.
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15:00<ansgar>o.O Can one even buy 10+ year old USB WiFi things?
15:00<zleap>probably
15:01<scorpion2185[m]>I saw ancient memories card of 16 MB that one can buy (not there)
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15:02<tpefreedom>I have a wifi adapter with an ar9271 chipset, which has free firmware, but I don't think debian includes the *free/libre* firmware in its normal isos.
15:03<imMute>it should as long as it's DFSG-compliant.
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15:05<tpefreedom>It uses ath9k-htc.
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15:07<tpefreedom>I don't think ath9k-htc is included in the normal free installers even though it is also free/libre.
15:09<zleap>i have just searched for that and it came up with firmware-ath9k-htc/testing 1.4.0-106-gc583009+dfsg1-1 all
15:09<zleap> firmware for AR7010 and AR9271 USB wireless adapters
15:09<zleap>I do have main contrib enabled in sources.list
15:09<zleap>Debian 11
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15:09<tpefreedom>hi zleap
15:09<tpefreedom>Is it in the installer though?
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15:10<zleap>not sure
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15:41<Sqrt{not}>tpefreedom, it looks like that firmware file is not in the mainline installers, but is present in the "non-free" "firmware" versions of the installer
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15:46<Sqrt{not}>I see the file in this: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.10.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.10.0-amd64-netinst.iso but not in this: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/10.9.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.9.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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16:01<tpefreedom>Isn't the ath9k_htc firmware/driver free software?
16:01<pert>Yes, it is free. I'm the package maintainer.
16:02<pert>I'm working on making a udeb so it can get put in the Debian Installer, but that won't be done in time for Bullseye.
16:02<tpefreedom>Then why doesn't the free installer include it?
16:02<tpefreedom>I don't get why the free installer wouldn't include it.
16:03<tpefreedom>Since it's free/libre
16:03<pert>Partly for historical and partly for technical reasons. None of the other firmware (even the other free firmware) gets built from source, and is instead shipped as prebuilt blobs by the linux-firmware-free package
16:03<pert>The ath9k_htc firmware is built from source however, and provided by the separate firmware-ath9k-htc package, unlike all the rest of the free firmware
16:04<pert>No one has previously put in the effort to make a udeb for it, necessary for incorporation into the installer, and in the time before the firmware-ath9k-htc package existed, it seems to have just been neglected
16:06<pert>I'm not an official Debian Developer, so it takes time to find someone that can upload my changes. That's what's holding up my progress right now, we just have to be patient
16:13<Sqrt{not}>tpefreedom, you could also install from one of the regular free installers, and then install that wifi firmware afterward, from "apt"
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18:22-!-Guest822 is now known as matlads
18:23<matlads>bullseye is coming soon! I am excited
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18:27<somiaj>It is running great now too, (:
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18:28-!-astronut is "Benjamin E. Seidenberg" on #debian
18:28<astronut>Is it possible to change the name of a USB sound card in pulse audio? Maybe via some udev rule or alsa config?
18:29<astronut>never mind, someone in another channel pointed this out to me. cheers!
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18:31<matlads>@somiaj, let me simulate an upgrade to testing, and see how it goes
18:31<somiaj>matlads: make sure to report or see if any bugs you run into have been reported.
18:32<somiaj>matlads: note the biggest drawback (minus a few rc-bugs) with bullseye is limited security support, so I wouldn't do this on a production machine
18:33-!-yik [~quassel@69.172.182.236] has quit []
18:33<matlads>@somiaj, oh yeah, I usually wait like 6 months before I schedule production upgrades
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18:38<somiaj>matlads: I just like to remind people. I'm only running bullseye on my desktop since it isn't critical
18:39<matlads>@somiaj, neat
18:39<alex11>like 2 1/2 weeks to go :D
18:39<alex11>(assuming no holdups)
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18:44-!-zebrag is "inkbottle" on #wayland #debian-offtopic #oftc #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies
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18:48<matlads>(assuming no holdups)
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18:57-!-lucasmsoares96 is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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20:33-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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20:33-!-madez_ is "madez" on #debian
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20:36-!-addviking is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-rant #debian-nordic
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20:37-!-matlads is "Martin Atukunda" on #debian #postmarketos #freedombox #moocows
20:38-!-matlads is now known as Guest831
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20:41-!-uos_eric2023 is "Quassel IRC 用户" on #debian
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20:45-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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20:51-!-silver is "Jesse Lee Morgan" on #intel-3d #mm #linux-msm #linux-rt #linux #wayland #C #buildroot @#debian-support #debian-social #debian-netfilter #debian-nginx #debian-kde #debian-ai #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-changes #debconf-cambridge #minidebconf-online #debian-meeting
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20:53-!-matlads_ is "Martin Atukunda" on #debian #postmarketos #freedombox #moocows
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21:03-!-cmellojr is "Carlos Mello Jr" on #debian-br #debian
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21:40<ckosloff>I am using latest stable version + backports, and have a very annoying error in thundrbird, possible this is not right venue for discussion but if you refuse to give advice at please kindly point me to the right place or suggest another email program.
21:40<mason>ckosloff: If it's Thunderbird from backports, #debian-next might be better.
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21:41<sarnold>when folks want gui mail clients I think thunderbird owns that space, and sylpheed, evolution, kmail are kinda 'also-rans'
21:41<ckosloff>SO, problem is that Thunderbird does not display the contents of folders, it was working fine and suddenly it shows count in folders but does not display.
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21:42<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, did you update it recently? what version do you have now?
21:42<ckosloff>mason: I am unsure it comes from backports
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21:43<Sqrt{not}>v thunderbird
21:43<mason>ckosloff: What's "dpkg -l thunderbird" say?
21:43<Sqrt{not}>,v thunderbird
21:43<judd>Package: thunderbird on amd64 -- jessie: 1:52.8.0-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:68.9.0-1~deb8u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:68.9.0-1~deb9u1; stretch: 1:68.10.0-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1:68.10.0-1~deb9u1; buster: 1:78.6.0-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 1:78.11.0-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 1:78.11.0-2; sid: 1:78.11.0-2; experimental: 1:90.0~b2-1
21:44<jhutchins>Are we sure it's Thunderbird and not the imap server?
21:44<Sqrt{not}>(I don't see any backports version of thunderbird there)
21:44<mason>Count in folders suggests the client, but nothing's ruled out yet, sure.
21:44<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: 1:78.11.0-1~deb10
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21:45<jhutchins>mason: I think we should do our best to support backports here, they are not identical to testing, and debian-next won't know what's different.
21:45<ckosloff>jhutchins: IMAP server is accessible via webmail emails are there
21:45<Sqrt{not}>so, that is buster-security version
21:45<mason>jhutchins: Sure, that's fine. Just wondering what that version is from.
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21:46<mason>Oh, that's just stable.
21:46<Sqrt{not}>mason, it is not even a backport
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21:46<sarnold>oh there's also claws :)
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21:47<mason>judd's out of date there, isn't it?
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21:48<mason>no, buster-security
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21:48<ckosloff>arnold: apt install claws-mail?
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21:49<sarnold>ckosloff: yeah, that's the package name; look at screenshots of all of them, you might find you hate some of them before even downloading :)
21:50<mason>ckosloff: That'd be a whole different client, so you'd want to think about whether you want to change. I'd give Mutt a look personally.
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21:50<ckosloff>I will contact server provider tomorrow but they insist that if webmail is working it is not on their side
21:50<mason>Sqrt{not}: So, I can save some cogitation if I read what you type before I randomly blurt things out. :P It's getting late and I need more coffee.
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21:50<jmcnaught>evolution might already be installed if you use GNOME
21:51<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: don't work late, just go to sleep and we continue tomorrow
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21:51<ckosloff>jmcnaught: Using KDE
21:51<jmcnaught>KMail then
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21:52<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, I would try to look at your problem, before installing something completely different.
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21:53<mason>That said, having another MUA for comparison would help isolate whether it's Thunderbird or not.
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21:53<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: don't dring cofee, acidity too mush is bad for sleep
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21:54<ckosloff>mason: will try tomorrow, I am in Eastern time and it is getting late
21:55<Sqrt{not}>heh, it's early here, I am about to go on an in-person visit to a network upgrade, at a college office
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21:55<mason>ckosloff: Same, EST here. I'll be out tomorrow but I'll try to look at scrollback when I can.
21:56<mason>ckosloff: In short, 1) I agree, let's debug your issue with TBird first, 2) having a spare client would be nice for comparison, and 3) it's worth looking at what debugging there is for Thunderbird.
21:57<ckosloff>mason: will be back when you can
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22:21<ckosloff>good night everybody and thank you much
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22:29<alex11>when bullseye comes out i am buying a bottle of champagne and having a party for one person :P
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22:29<alex11>and hopefully not upgrade my pc while drunk on champagne
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22:30<silver>Samuel Adams for me sir
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22:33*silver https://i.ibb.co/K5QsHSS/Open-Simulator-on-Debian-Bullseye.png
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22:34<sarnold>debeian? :)
22:35<sarnold>cool font though
22:35<silver>thats funny
22:36<silver>now i have to go look for it
22:36<sarnold>sorry :)
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22:37<alex11>debeian, debian fork with OpenRC
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22:43<silver>https://paste.debian.net/1204407/
22:43<alex11>much better
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22:44<silver>:D
22:44<sarnold>shiny :)
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