| --- | Log | opened Fri Jul 16 00:00:04 2021 |
| --- | Day | changed Fri Jul 16 2021 |
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| 00:03 | <b1ackandwh1te> | AMD deliver us already 1 socket with 128 threads. wow. |
| 00:10 | <b1ackandwh1te> | the revolution will come with quantum computation. (I believe) |
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| 00:13 | <nevyn> | maybe. |
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| 00:13 | <b1ackandwh1te> | quantum math and codification is revolutionary, nothing similar to binary world |
| 00:13 | <nevyn> | yes with a but |
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| 00:14 | <nevyn> | much like dedicated silicon for machine learning. |
| 00:15 | <nevyn> | I don't think it's going to take over general purpose computing |
| 00:15 | <b1ackandwh1te> | not necessarily silicon nevyn, optic, photon based computers exists also. |
| 00:17 | <b1ackandwh1te> | nevyn, what >I< believe is a future of harmonic co-existence of silicon and quantum computers |
| 00:17 | <nevyn> | right. |
| 00:17 | <nevyn> | that's what I'm saying |
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| 00:18 | <nevyn> | we're not going to run irc clients on quantum cpu's |
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| 00:18 | <nevyn> | just like we don't run them on gpu's or tensor flow processors. |
| 00:18 | <b1ackandwh1te> | kkkkk |
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| 00:19 | <nevyn> | they're important for particular classes of algorithms (NP hard stuff particularly) |
| 00:20 | <nevyn> | where at the moment we can solve small np-hard things by bruteforcing but the complexity of the algortithm scales n^2 or worse. |
| 00:20 | <nevyn> | so we can deal with moderatly large n's given enough cpu's and wallclock time |
| 00:21 | <b1ackandwh1te> | I think telling codification, the AI the is out there is still in its infancy. |
| 00:22 | <b1ackandwh1te> | most of it is feedfoward perceptrons, with 1 or multi layer |
| 00:23 | <nevyn> | so we're using AI theory from the 70's (neural networks) we've known what to do for 40 years. what we've lacked is enough cpu to do it. |
| 00:25 | <b1ackandwh1te> | the perceptrons are statistical contructs that require an outstanding 'mom' or gigantic dataset to teach 'what is rigth' to the big baby |
| 00:26 | <b1ackandwh1te> | each iteration of learning make the network closer to the 'correct' one |
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| 00:29 | <b1ackandwh1te> | the need of gigantic and correct dataset of example or learning for the modeling of each network is a BIG problem. |
| 00:32 | <b1ackandwh1te> | nevyn, you are correct, the current neural network theory is damn OLD. |
| 00:35 | <b1ackandwh1te> | I apologize if I am looking boring. |
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| 00:51 | <b1ackandwh1te> | biological neural networks are far different from feedfoward arquitecture. |
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| 03:36 | <hiimscared> | Hi! Can I ask questions about debian here? |
| 03:36 | <hiimscared> | I am very confused :( |
| 03:36 | <diogenes_oftc> | !ask |
| 03:36 | <dpkg> | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 03:37 | <hiimscared> | Ah, sorry about asking if I could ask, just wanted to make sure. |
| 03:37 | <hiimscared> | Okay, one sec while I type all this out. |
| 03:38 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 989] by debhelper |
| 03:39 | <hiimscared> | So, I keep trying to run Deb right? But it keeps saying Deb won't work. I'm running version 10 (Don't know how to check more specific then that, sorry) The goal is to eventually run steam, but I can't get the first step to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've had to restart it a few times, so I don't have the exact commands I inputted. |
| 03:39 | <hiimscared> | Tl;dr, how do I add deb? |
| 03:40 | <diogenes_oftc> | !steam |
| 03:40 | <dpkg> | Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. Users of the proprietary nvidia driver will also need nvidia-driver-libs:i386. For help with upstream issues, ask #steamlug on irc.freenode.net. http://wiki.debian.org/Steam |
| 03:41 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: "Deb" is Debian or a specific .deb package? |
| 03:41 | <hiimscared> | See, I'm on that website. Again, the deb function doesn't work. I've been trying for a while. |
| 03:41 | <hiimscared> | It's .deb |
| 03:41 | <ratrace> | what .deb? |
| 03:41 | <grove> | !bat |
| 03:41 | <dpkg> | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
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| 03:42 | <hiimscared> | Alright, I'll get a more complete version. One moment. Thank you all again. |
| 03:42 | <diogenes_oftc> | probably trying to add contrib non-free to apt sources. |
| 03:42 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: hold on |
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| 03:42 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: are you trying to install steam's upstream .deb package? |
| 03:42 | <hiimscared> | It specifically says: -bash: deb: command not found |
| 03:43 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: can you answer the questions please |
| 03:43 | <hiimscared> | Sorry I don't know how to dm you ratrace :( |
| 03:43 | <ratrace> | you do not dm me |
| 03:43 | <hiimscared> | Anyway, I don't know what that means |
| 03:43 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: okay, start at the very beginning. explain exactly what you're trying to do. |
| 03:43 | <hiimscared> | I'm trying to install steam on a chromebook using linux. The exact type is debian. |
| 03:44 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: then run `apt install steam` |
| 03:44 | <ratrace> | steam is packaged in debian, you do not need to download any .deb package manually, and no "deb" command to run. maybe you meant "dpkg" but you don't need that either. |
| 03:45 | <hiimscared> | E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied) |
| 03:45 | <hiimscared> | and then |
| 03:45 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: right you need to do this as root. have you ever run a Linux distribution before? |
| 03:45 | <grove> | Try `audo apt install steam` then |
| 03:45 | <ratrace> | sans the typo |
| 03:45 | <hiimscared> | No I havent |
| 03:45 | <sep> | hiimscared: are you followin this page https://wiki.debian.org/Steam ? and are typing deb in the console instead of adding non-free as it is described? |
| 03:46 | <hiimscared> | I know I'm following the page for sure |
| 03:46 | <hiimscared> | Anyway I'll try the sudo command one sec |
| 03:46 | <sep> | the text in the box is not a command you should run, but an example of how to add non-free to your repo list |
| 03:46 | <hiimscared> | Got it, thank you. It says as follows when I run the sudo command: |
| 03:46 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: however .... steam on chromebook? seriously? what can that thing possibly run from the steam palette of gpu-intensive products? :) |
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| 03:47 | <hiimscared> | I'm hoping persona 4, this is all I have at the moment |
| 03:47 | <hiimscared> | Reading package lists. . . Done Building dependency tree Reading state information . . . Done E: Unable to locate package steam |
| 03:47 | <sep> | there is a _lot_ of games on steam tho. not all grafic intensive. |
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| 03:48 | <hiimscared> | yeah, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine. Persona 4 can run on most stuff |
| 03:48 | <ratrace> | 'aight. |
| 03:48 | <sep> | hiimscared, you need to edit the sources.list and add non-free repo as explained in that link you read |
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| 03:49 | <hiimscared> | Oh ok |
| 03:49 | <hiimscared> | One sec while I figure out how to do that |
| 03:49 | <grove> | It sounds like you're in step 1 of the installation procedure given on that page and has ignored the first sentence. That is not a command, that is a line to add to a file |
| 03:49 | <hiimscared> | Thank you all again so much |
| 03:49 | <ratrace> | and as another important point, which GPU do you have in that chromebook, and if that's nvidia, are you using proprietary drivers? |
| 03:49 | <hiimscared> | Ooooh ok |
| 03:49 | <hiimscared> | I have no idea what's inside it, I haven't opened it yet |
| 03:50 | <grove> | Opened what? |
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| 03:50 | <hiimscared> | the computer |
| 03:50 | <hiimscared> | Ok, I looked at it, I can't find a code block step earlier then what I first looked at |
| 03:50 | <hiimscared> | hm |
| 03:51 | <ratrace> | btw, who installed debian on that chromebook? you? |
| 03:51 | <hiimscared> | Yes |
| 03:51 | <hiimscared> | I'm also the administrator |
| 03:51 | <hiimscared> | I got it just today |
| 03:51 | <diogenes_oftc> | ratrace, did you get the answer? he didn't open the pc to tell you what gpu it has :) |
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| 03:52 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: okay, you don't have to open it to list the hardware. do you know how to use a paste site? |
| 03:52 | <ratrace> | !paste |
| 03:52 | <dpkg> | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 03:52 | <hiimscared> | I think the fact I don't know what one is is pretty telling |
| 03:52 | <ratrace> | then please paste to one such site, and provide the link here, the output of `lspci -v` that you run as root |
| 03:53 | <hiimscared> | Unless you mean stuff like pastebin |
| 03:53 | <diogenes_oftc> | the problem with Debian wikis is that it's for more experienced users, for instance, the first step says: "1. Append a "non-free" component to the main line in your /etc/apt/sources.list" BUT it doesn't tell the user how to do this... |
| 03:53 | <ratrace> | yes, I mean stuff like pastebin, but pastebin dot com is garbage, and there's much better alternatives |
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| 03:53 | <hiimscared> | Ah, okay! |
| 03:54 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: if you have netcat installed (the `nc` command) you can easily just `lspci -v | nc termbin.com 9999` and it would provide you with an URL that you can post here. |
| 03:54 | <hiimscared> | right |
| 03:54 | <hiimscared> | I'll check if I do one sec |
| 03:55 | <hiimscared> | It seems I do not |
| 03:55 | <ratrace> | that command "pipes" (redirects) the (standard) output of the lspci -v command, to netcat (nc) which is an utility to write data across network, in this case it sends it to termbin.com at port 9999, which is a paste service that works like that. |
| 03:55 | <hiimscared> | Code is so confusing, I have mad respect for you all |
| 03:55 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: alright, then `apt install netcat` as root, first |
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| 03:56 | <hiimscared> | I'm not allowed to make messages too long, apparently, so I'll just breifly say it didn't work |
| 03:56 | <hiimscared> | heck |
| 03:56 | <ratrace> | you'll have to describe "didn't work" |
| 03:56 | <hiimscared> | Can I just write out what appeared? |
| 03:57 | <hiimscared> | like instead of copy pasting, cheating the system n all that |
| 03:57 | <dyue> | I installed the latest testing on a machine with a RX560; driver is xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu. When I boot using "quiet splash" in grub, the boot process gets stuck after http://paste.debian.net/1204551/ . If I edit that to nomodeset, it boots into KDE Plasma, but the driver never gets loaded (and the 4K display gets detected as 1024 by 728). Could anyone give a hint to what could be causing the issue? |
| 03:57 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: don't paste multiline text unless it's two, three lines |
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| 03:57 | <hiimscared> | Do them first, I can wait |
| 03:58 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: otherwise you'd have to use a paste site, like bpaste.net which I like or dpaste.com, and copy paste there. you don't actually have to use that netcat thingy, it's jsut that its' convenient |
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| 03:59 | <ratrace> | dyue: you can remove quiet splash and not add nomodeset, and then paste the output of that |
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| 03:59 | <Tj> | dyue: try replacing "quiet splash" with "debug nosplash systemd.log_level=info" so you can see console messages as they're generated to give some idea where it fails. You might also try altering GRUB's config so it doesn't try to use graphical modes, only text (GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX="text" in /etc/default/grub) |
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| 04:00 | <Tj> | dyue: usually it is due to a problem with handover from efifb to the device-specific driver, or the EFI modes being invalid |
| 04:01 | <ratrace> | does debian in any incarnation use "splash" in grub command line? |
| 04:02 | <dyue> | I'll hand type the more verbose messages without splash quiet. Give me a moment. |
| 04:02 | <ratrace> | dyue: you can also take a picture and post it to imgur.com for example |
| 04:02 | <dyue> | That's probably better. I'll do that. |
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| 04:03 | <ratrace> | though WAG'ing a solution ehre, methinks you're missing teh amdgpu firmware and a vesa mode is selected instead |
| 04:05 | <ratrace> | the one in which you need to install firmware-amd-graphics from non-free ; but I'll admit I don't have much experience with older AMD/ATI cards, so who knows which one of myriad ati/radeon(si)/amd/amdgpu is actually needed. |
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| 04:05 | <hiimscared> | test |
| 04:05 | <hiimscared> | ok |
| 04:05 | <hiimscared> | I think I crashed |
| 04:05 | <hiimscared> | Is dyue still working on their thing? |
| 04:05 | <ratrace> | welp... |
| 04:06 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: the support in this chan is not necessarily serial. you can go on with your issue. |
| 04:06 | <hiimscared> | Dw I'm pretty sure I saw everything you told me ratrace |
| 04:06 | <hiimscared> | Ah, alright |
| 04:06 | <hiimscared> | I just didn't want to bury his stuff |
| 04:06 | <dyue> | ratrace: I don't think I need the non-free microcodes. https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo mentions that GCN 1.2 is supported by the free amdgpu, which the RX560 is. Could you post a link to "vesa mode", as I don't quite understand the terminology. |
| 04:06 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: so for starters a paste of `lspci -v`, somewhere, please |
| 04:06 | <hiimscared> | https://dpaste.com/F6YC43RFS is the paste thing |
| 04:07 | <ratrace> | dyue: "free amdgpu" _driver_ but even that requires _firmware_ which is non-free |
| 04:07 | <ratrace> | "amdgpu" is a kernel module, and that's "free" (license-wise free/libre -ish) |
| 04:08 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: that's in response to what command? |
| 04:08 | <dyue> | I'll try that, maybe. Here's the image meanwhile, https://i.ibb.co/N36N8mD/IMG-20210716-153044.jpg . Doesn't tell much. I'll install the non-free one. |
| 04:08 | <hiimscared> | Here you go for that too https://dpaste.com/3MDEDM5U8 |
| 04:08 | <hiimscared> | That was in response to the netcat command |
| 04:08 | <vv221> | hiimscared, I tweaked the Steam page on Debian wiki to include a link to detailed instructions on how to enable the "non-free" component. I guess it’s a bit late to help you, but it might be useful for the next people with the same issue ;) (cf. https://wiki.debian.org/Steam#A64-bit_systems_.28amd64.29) |
| 04:08 | <hiimscared> | Thank you so much! That's very kind of you. |
| 04:09 | <sep> | vv221, ++ improving documentation! |
| 04:09 | <ratrace> | dyue: starting DM but no switch to it. yeah, try installing `firmware-amd-graphics` first, see if that fixes everything |
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| 04:11 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: alright. so first install package `pciutils`. you do so by running `apt` command AS ROOT. `apt install pciutils` . you probably want to prefix that with sudo, so it's `sudo apt install pciutils` . it'd be great to learn what sudo is and what it does and when it's needed. |
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| 04:11 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: the package pciutils is where the lspci command resides. apparently not installed by default. |
| 04:12 | <hiimscared> | Alright. Thank you. I'll try that. |
| 04:12 | <hiimscared> | I think it did it! |
| 04:13 | <hiimscared> | Thank you so much. |
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| 04:18 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: is there a problem with that lspci output? |
| 04:19 | <hiimscared> | ok wow that is a lot of text when I entered it |
| 04:19 | <hiimscared> | hm |
| 04:19 | <hiimscared> | Let me make sure there's no identifying information in it and copy paste it |
| 04:21 | <hiimscared> | https://dpaste.com/CRJSG3YZR |
| 04:22 | <ratrace> | did you miss to scroll up for entire command? that seems just like the last few entries |
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| 04:23 | <hiimscared> | No that's at the bottom, the last few were also definetly shorter |
| 04:23 | <ratrace> | and now I'm confused. virtio-pci . are you running some sort of VM? not chromebook direclty? |
| 04:23 | <hiimscared> | I think it's a chromebook |
| 04:23 | <hiimscared> | I purchased a chromebook |
| 04:23 | <ratrace> | what do you mean you "think" |
| 04:23 | <hiimscared> | I mean I have no idea why it wouldn't be |
| 04:23 | <hiimscared> | uh |
| 04:24 | <hiimscared> | sorry I'm not good with computers |
| 04:24 | <hiimscared> | Shocker, I know |
| 04:24 | <ratrace> | does it have the google logo carved into it with the text "chromebook" next to it? |
| 04:24 | <ratrace> | at any rate, that lspci output is incomplete and looks wrong as if you're running a VM |
| 04:25 | <hiimscared> | Yes |
| 04:25 | <vv221> | ratrace, not a user myself, but I think Chromebook provides x86 Linux compatibility through some kind of VM. |
| 04:25 | <hiimscared> | I'll look into it |
| 04:25 | <hiimscared> | one sec |
| 04:25 | <ratrace> | that's gonna be very terrible for gaming then |
| 04:25 | <hiimscared> | I'll get back to you if it is in fact a vm |
| 04:26 | <ratrace> | vv221: but maybe oyu mean chromeOS? as far as I understood, it's debian that's installed here.... but now I wonder.... |
| 04:26 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: what's the number you get when you type this command: `cat /etc/debian_version` ? |
| 04:27 | <vv221> | ratrace, from what I understand the host system would be ChromeOS, running on arm-something. And this one is providing a virtual environment for x86 emulation, this is where Debian is used. |
| 04:27 | <hiimscared> | One moment while I enter it |
| 04:27 | <vv221> | (again, that would need double-checking) |
| 04:27 | <hiimscared> | 10.5 |
| 04:27 | <ratrace> | so debian is installed AS A VM on chromeos? |
| 04:27 | <hiimscared> | I finally discovered the exact version |
| 04:27 | <hiimscared> | huzzah |
| 04:28 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: alright, and now the complete lspci -v output pleease. in fact, do this. `sudo apt install netcat` and then `lspci -v | nc termbin.com 9999` and post here the URL you get. there is no identifiable information in lspci output. |
| 04:28 | <Tj> | I'd suggest lspci -nn since then you get the vendor:device IDs |
| 04:28 | <ratrace> | BUT if you want to be sure, then `lspci -v > somefile.txt` then inspect somefile.txt for contents, and then `nc termbin.com 9999 < somefile.txt` |
| 04:29 | <vv221> | The keyword for the Chromebook Linux compat layer would be "Crostini". |
| 04:30 | <ratrace> | but I think we first need to define how is debian "installed" here. USB stick, isntaller, directly on the hardware (which is what I understood happened), or is debian in a VM on chromeOS on chromebook ? |
| 04:30 | <hiimscared> | It's directly on the hardware. I had to click something to get it on my computer |
| 04:30 | <hiimscared> | but it's directly there |
| 04:30 | <hiimscared> | https://termbin.com/972j |
| 04:30 | <hiimscared> | There was an error message too though |
| 04:30 | <hiimscared> | so I'm figuring that out |
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| 04:31 | <hiimscared> | wait it showed that? |
| 04:31 | <hiimscared> | Weird. |
| 04:31 | <hiimscared> | lspci: Unable to load libkmod resources: error -12 this was the message just above it |
| 04:31 | <ratrace> | any error message might've been posted to STDERR output, and you (re)directed STDOUT. that's how awesome unix-like systems are :) |
| 04:32 | <hiimscared> | That's so cool I don't even understand what it means |
| 04:32 | <hiimscared> | all i know is it's really convenient |
| 04:32 | <vv221> | ratrace, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS#Linux_Apps — « Crostini runs a virtual machine through a virtual machine monitor called crosvm, which uses Linux's built-in KVM virtualization tool. Although crosvm supports multiple virtual machines, the one used for running Linux apps, Termina, contains a basic Chrome OS kernel and userland utilities, in which it runs |
| 04:32 | <vv221> | containers based on Linux containers (specifically LXD). » |
| 04:33 | <ratrace> | vv221: thjat's CHROME __OS__ |
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| 04:33 | <vv221> | Yes, and I exepct hiimscared to run that if he is using a Chromebook and is quite new to Linux ;) |
| 04:33 | <ratrace> | chromeOS == chrome browser modded to run atop of custom xorg-like gpu framework atop of linux kernel |
| 04:33 | <vv221> | ChromeOS is the default OS for Chromebooks. |
| 04:33 | <vv221> | (I mean, the one pre-installed) |
| 04:33 | <hiimscared> | Wow you guys pullin out the big links now just to solve this |
| 04:34 | <hiimscared> | I feel special |
| 04:34 | <hiimscared> | thank you |
| 04:34 | <hiimscared> | :) |
| 04:34 | <ratrace> | hiimscared said debian was installed. if it was installed natively, then no virtio-pci drivers should've been seen here, unless there's multiple different variants of chromeBOOKS that I am not aware of and a hardware based VM going on |
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| 04:34 | <ratrace> | so maybe we need to define how debian was "installed" in the first place. Because the process is not really plug and play. |
| 04:35 | <hiimscared> | I went into settings, clicked a few things and then got it on my computer |
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| 04:35 | <hiimscared> | That's about it I think |
| 04:35 | <ratrace> | what few things |
| 04:36 | <hiimscared> | Licensing agreements (Which I skim read just to make sure I wasn't selling my soul) |
| 04:36 | <hiimscared> | I think I had to click a button to download it |
| 04:36 | <ratrace> | I think you isntalled debian in a VM |
| 04:36 | <hiimscared> | Ah, alright |
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| 04:36 | <hiimscared> | It is in it's own window |
| 04:36 | <ratrace> | you ain't gonna play games with that |
| 04:36 | <hiimscared> | Dang, I spent 300 dollars on this computer :( |
| 04:37 | <vv221> | Well, you can play games, but clearly not anything grpahics-intensaive ;) |
| 04:37 | <hiimscared> | I'm fine with that, I don't need big graphics |
| 04:37 | <ratrace> | c'mon... you can't play games in a VM via virtio-pci and redhats virtual gpu, except dwarf fortress :) |
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| 04:38 | <vv221> | hiimscared, by « not graphics-intensive », you should understand no 3D ;) |
| 04:39 | <ratrace> | this is gonna suck so bad, that even youtube will play at such a low framerate you can almost see the frames refreshing :) |
| 04:39 | <ratrace> | no 3D and no 2D either. factorio would run at 1fps if at all :) |
| 04:39 | <hiimscared> | Oh, I'm cool with that too. I have a few games I like that are 2d I could buy |
| 04:39 | <hiimscared> | oh |
| 04:39 | <hiimscared> | Darn. |
| 04:40 | <hiimscared> | Well, I guess this teaches me not to cut corners |
| 04:40 | <sep> | hiimscared, easiest games to acxtualy run on chromeos are probably web based javascript ones nativly in chromeos ; if you have some other hardware in the house, you can stream steam via the steam link app on chromeos from that other machine. |
| 04:40 | <vv221> | ratrace, Factorio is taxing, but I was more thinking about Wesnoth-like games… But maybe I’m overestimating the Chromebooks abilities. |
| 04:41 | <ratrace> | I think you're overestimating a device designed for lowest possible power use, longest possible battery life, arm based, with proprietary google's graphics rendereing engine atop of modified linux kerneal and chrome _browser_ as userland. :)) |
| 04:41 | <hiimscared> | Alright. Thank you all so much. It is very late. I am probably going to sleep. |
| 04:41 | <sep> | my factorio map is on the knees can sometimes boost to 30 fps now :P |
| 04:41 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: but hey! try it. at least you'll learn how to install steam on debian |
| 04:41 | <hiimscared> | What I'm getting from this is this: |
| 04:41 | <hiimscared> | I need to get another device to play steam on this computer, and run steam on that |
| 04:41 | <hiimscared> | right? |
| 04:42 | <sep> | are there any companies that let you rent a steam machine a few houers and stream to your steam link ? i guess you could do it in aws. but simple and easy |
| 04:42 | <ratrace> | not sure what you mean by "another device [...] on this computer" |
| 04:42 | <sep> | hiimscared, basically yes. |
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| 04:42 | <hiimscared> | I have a phone, I can probably install steam there or something |
| 04:42 | <hiimscared> | I know there's a mobile steam app |
| 04:42 | <sep> | that is just to see/buy your games and chat with your friends |
| 04:43 | <sep> | and MFA auth |
| 04:43 | <ratrace> | oh one also very extremely important bit. what arch is that debian installation? if that's arm, no steam for you in any shape or form :) |
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| 04:43 | <hiimscared> | I don't really know how to tell what arch it is |
| 04:43 | <hiimscared> | sorry |
| 04:43 | <hiimscared> | :( |
| 04:43 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: `uname -a` |
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| 04:44 | <sep> | pointless still tho. the VM would not perform anyway. |
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| 04:44 | <ratrace> | you can play Dwarf Fortress tho :) it's packaged in debian, no steam needed :))) |
| 04:44 | <hiimscared> | Cool, I might try that at some point! |
| 04:44 | <ratrace> | hiimscared: it's a single line, `uname -a` you don't have to pastebin it |
| 04:44 | <hiimscared> | Thank you! |
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| 04:45 | <hiimscared> | Linux penguin 5.4.67-09356-gf3ed4c0c4a31 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Sep 27 20:35:52 PDT 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
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| 04:45 | <ratrace> | cringeworthy. wth is that. |
| 04:45 | <sep> | xpilot-ng |
| 04:45 | <sep> | awesome game as well |
| 04:46 | <hiimscared> | Alright, thank you again |
| 04:46 | <vv221> | I see here someone running Bastion on ChromeOS/Crostini: https://www.reddit.com/r/Crostini/comments/gzsacv/driving_myself_bonkers_trying_to_edit_an_app_icon/ |
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| 04:46 | <vv221> | Sadly, no comments about performances. |
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| 04:47 | <ratrace> | btw chromebooks are intel x86_64 these days, celeron or maybe even Core(tm) ones |
| 04:48 | <hiimscared> | Nice! |
| 04:48 | <hiimscared> | I know intel |
| 04:48 | <hiimscared> | I went on a tour there once |
| 04:48 | <ratrace> | you can pastebin the output of `lscpu`, it'll show which cpu you've got, even from the VM, as cpu is not virtualized |
| 04:48 | <ratrace> | *paravirtualized |
| 04:50 | <hiimscared> | https://dpaste.com/9KENUDHCM |
| 04:52 | <ratrace> | welp, it's not fully passthru'd. but okay, from those features you've got hyperthreading, smap. so that's broadwell or newer architecture |
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| 04:53 | <hiimscared> | I have no idea what that means to be honest |
| 04:53 | <hiimscared> | Anyway, it is very late over here |
| 04:54 | <hiimscared> | I think I'm going to go to bed, thank you so much for all your help once more |
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| 04:54 | <hiimscared> | I hope you all have wonderful days |
| 04:54 | <hiimscared> | Or nights |
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| 07:05 | <anot> | how can i use trackerless torrent magnets? when i paste it on qbittorrent it dont install anything |
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| 07:16 | <grove> | I can't say if qtbittorrent is weird, but transmission-gtk just registered itself for those links, so when I click on magnet-links in firefox transmission just opens the dialog that allows me to choose where to download it to |
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| 07:21 | <Guest1041> | . |
| 07:21 | <Guest1041> | Hello |
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| 07:59 | -!- | wololoer is "user" on #pipewire #s6 #alpine-linux #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian |
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| 08:00 | -!- | tizef is "realname" on #debian-quebec #debian-qemu #debian-offtopic #debian-nantes #3hg #nakedeb #debian-next #debian |
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| 08:04 | -!- | rejoicetreat is "rejoicetreat__" on #oftc #debian #fdroid |
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| 08:10 | -!- | Xaldafax is "X" on #debian #tor-project #debian-raspberrypi #linux |
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| 08:15 | -!- | TheCreeper is "realname" on #debian |
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| 08:17 | -!- | TCZ is "Jan Kowalski" on #devuan #archlinux.org.pl #openstack-pl #debian #moocows #archownia.pl |
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| 08:20 | -!- | wololoer is "user" on #pipewire #s6 #alpine-linux #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian |
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| 08:21 | -!- | TheCreeper1 is "realname" on #debian |
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| 08:27 | -!- | pert is "John Scott" on #debian #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-next |
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| 08:48 | -!- | TCZ is "Jan Kowalski" on #devuan #debian #moocows #archownia.pl #openstack-pl #archlinux.org.pl |
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| 09:12 | -!- | argentwolf is "cengelbrecht" on #debian #haiku #linux #debian-xfce #debian-next |
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| 10:00 | -!- | mellowrealf is "mellow" on #debian |
| 10:02 | <mellowrealf> | hello, i've got a question about the latest release of chromium on stable. as far as i understand, the security team does not only apply security patches to chromium but rather keeps it always on the latest version. why is it then that the current version of chromium is 90.0.4430.212 when the latest one is 91.0.4472.164 ? isn't that a security risk? |
| 10:03 | <sney> | chromium upstream maintains multiple branches at once, including 90 |
| 10:04 | <mellowrealf> | oh, didn't know that. thank you. |
| 10:04 | <sney> | np |
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| 10:06 | -!- | PYRULITO is "realname" on #debian |
| 10:07 | <PYRULITO> | Hi! Is it possible config Debian to have more than two Linux Kernel installed? |
| 10:07 | <sney> | sure, you can install as many as you want as long as there's room in /boot |
| 10:08 | <sney> | the linux-image-amd64 metapackage keeps 2 installed by default, but that's just a default. you can choose otherwise if you want |
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| 10:09 | <PYRULITO> | I am using Debian 9 with 4.9.0-16-amd64 and 4.9.0-15-amd64 right now. |
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| 10:10 | <PYRULITO> | Ok. How can I change this on Debian? |
| 10:10 | <sney> | install another kernel |
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| 10:10 | -!- | mukti is "mukti" on #debian |
| 10:11 | <ratrace> | sney: mellowrealf: but that's not really applicable to "branch" of chromium in debian is it? https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/chromium |
| 10:11 | <PYRULITO> | You said Debian only keep two kernel. If I want to keep... five last Kernel. How I do this? |
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| 10:12 | -!- | davide is "mellow" on #debian |
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| 10:13 | <sney> | PYRULITO: to keep an automatically installed kernel from being removed, 'apt-mark manual linux-image-(version)' |
| 10:14 | <sney> | and any kernel packages you install directly, that are not brought in as dependencies of linux-image-amd64, will stay installed unless you specifically remove them |
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| 10:15 | <PYRULITO> | Another question. |
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| 10:15 | -!- | Petaris is "realname" on #alpine-linux #debian |
| 10:16 | <PYRULITO> | I will install... Kernel 4.9.0-14 |
| 10:16 | <PYRULITO> | And at the moment 4.9.0-16 is the defeault Kernel. |
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| 10:17 | -!- | it is "realname" on #debian |
| 10:17 | <PYRULITO> | Which one will be the default Kernel? |
| 10:18 | <sney> | the newest |
| 10:18 | <PYRULITO> | 4.9.0-16? |
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| 10:18 | <sney> | yes |
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| 10:19 | <PYRULITO> | Ok |
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| 10:19 | -!- | diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian |
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| 10:30 | -!- | mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift |
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| 11:34 | <Juli_cute> | hello |
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| 11:34 | <sney> | hi |
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| 11:42 | <istrive_> | hi, good day to all! |
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| 11:44 | <istrive_> | I am trying to have vbox service to properly shutdown the vms before the host restart/shutdown. vbox channel is as slow as mollases to get any reply, so I figured here I have more chances to resolve the service code issues than over there! |
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| 11:49 | <istrive_> | this is the pastebin of the service https://pastebin.com/DrG2AJZS |
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| 11:52 | <istrive_> | this is the script to send message when the reboot/shutdown starts https://pastebin.com/yLkZ4gyK |
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| 11:54 | <istrive_> | thisn is to confirm the vm is powered off, https://pastebin.com/eAk9J91p |
| 11:54 | <istrive_> | the problem it that the vbox report it is off but the vm is still running! |
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| 11:55 | <istrive_> | any help would be greatly appreciated! |
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| 12:00 | <sney> | istrive_: if vboxmanage is reporting the wrong state for the vm then that's a vbox bug. Maybe you could get around it by sleeping the script for a few seconds to let the shutdown finish? |
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| 12:14 | <istrive_> | sney, the script does that, the vbox reposts the vm as powered off but it is not yet down, therefore the system crashes because of misinformation! |
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| 12:14 | -!- | mode/#debian [+b *!*@177.185.133.236$#fix_your_connection] by debchange |
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| 12:16 | <istrive_> | vboxmanage showvmstate reports as powered off, but the vm isn't off yet! |
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| 12:25 | <sney> | istrive_: right, so if vboxmanage is telling your script the wrong information, then that's a virtualbox issue that debian can't do anything about. |
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| 12:25 | -!- | ax5623 is "truth" on #linux #debian-next #debian |
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| 12:26 | <bentham> | Does the debchange banbot actually do anything? I see that lucascastro was apparently banned, but then rejoined without the ban being lifted. |
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| 12:26 | -!- | lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies |
| 12:27 | <sney> | istrive_: if you are running VMs a lot, maybe switch to a more appropriate hypervisor, virtualbox is more for short-term testing |
| 12:27 | <sney> | bentham: haha, maybe oftc doesn't support that comment syntax |
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| 12:27 | <sney> | the debchange bot *is* effective at kicking people for flooding, at least. |
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| 12:28 | -!- | lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies |
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| 12:30 | -!- | schizo is "me without a mic is like a beat without a snare" on #oftc #linux #debian |
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| 12:33 | <bentham> | sney: Ah, that explains it. This robot is an immigrant; clearly the local authorities must assume it's up to no good :) |
| 12:33 | <sney> | lol, basically |
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| 12:37 | <jhutchins> | bentham: Flood bans are not permananent, they're really just kicks. |
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| 12:38 | -!- | wnklmnn is "realname" on #debian |
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| 12:43 | <sney> | jhutchins: the ban is still set, it's just not actually preventing lucascastro from joining after the connection drop |
| 12:43 | <bentham> | I believe that pastly's banbot in #tor actually works. Maybe it is different? |
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| 12:44 | <bentham> | I understand that its policy is to ban for four hours and then unban, mostly to encourage people to fix their clients. |
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| 12:45 | <sney> | debchange was brought over from libera and I'm pretty sure it's just a syntax thing. |
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| 12:45 | <bentham> | I believe it. |
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| 12:48 | <pastly> | The #fix_your_connection is unlike anything I've ever seen work on oftc |
| 12:49 | <pastly> | So yeah, this is my guess: maybe oftc doesn't support that comment syntax |
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| 13:04 | <mipo> | hi, really new to debian and i cannot figure out how to install radeon drivers for X support - no matter what image i use, with or without firmware, the driver will not install - what am i doing wrong, please? |
| 13:05 | <grawity> | what do you mean by "the driver will not install" |
| 13:05 | <grawity> | i.e. how are you trying to install it in the first place |
| 13:06 | <mipo> | i get a message at first boot that radeon firmware is missing and i cannot start X |
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| 13:06 | <sney> | if you have a ryzen device 2-3 years old or newer, you will need a newer kernel than debian 10 has by default |
| 13:06 | <mipo> | i downloaded .iso images and put them on a USB stick |
| 13:06 | <zleap> | just did apt search radeon and it came up with "xserver-xorg-video-radeon/testing,now 1:19.1.0-2 amd64 [installed,automatic] |
| 13:06 | <zleap> | X.Org X server -- AMD/ATI Radeon display driver |
| 13:06 | <zleap> | " if that helps |
| 13:06 | <mipo> | old CPU, AMD B26 |
| 13:07 | <zleap> | that is on debian 11 |
| 13:07 | <mipo> | zleap, so there is no support for radeon in 10.10 ? |
| 13:07 | <zleap> | i am not sure |
| 13:07 | <sney> | the radeon driver is in the kernel, the firmware-amd-graphics contains the non-free support firmware, sometimes the installer is missing a few firmware files. |
| 13:07 | <zleap> | what do tyou get with that search term |
| 13:07 | <sney> | install firmware-amd-graphics from non-free and that warning should go away. |
| 13:08 | <mipo> | sney, as a sepparate package? |
| 13:08 | <zleap> | i was just making it clear I was using debian 11 |
| 13:08 | <zleap> | to avoid confusion |
| 13:08 | <sney> | the package is no longer labeled 'radeon' because it supports both radeon and amdgpu. |
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| 13:08 | <grawity> | mipo: firmware *is* primarily just a separate package |
| 13:08 | <mipo> | ok, so does anyone know if firmware-images have that radeon driver included ? |
| 13:09 | <sney> | mipo: yes, the firmware files needed by your gpu may have been skipped or missed when the installer was built. not a lot of people have old radeon hardware so it could be overlooked in testing. |
| 13:09 | <sney> | ,i firmware-amd-graphics |
| 13:09 | <judd> | Package firmware-amd-graphics (non-free/kernel, optional) in buster/amd64: Binary firmware for AMD/ATI graphics chips. Version: 20190114-2; Size: 3347.1k; Installed: 30235k; Homepage: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git |
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| 13:10 | <mipo> | ok then, so i have to get a terminal prompt and install using what command? |
| 13:10 | <sney> | !non-free sources |
| 13:10 | <dpkg> | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
| 13:10 | <sney> | ^ do this, then 'apt install firmware-amd-graphics' |
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| 13:11 | <mipo> | dpkg, just curious how other users are dealing with this kind of hardware? running just server install? |
| 13:11 | <dpkg> | okay, mipo |
| 13:12 | <sney> | dpkg is a bot |
| 13:12 | <dpkg> | sney: no idea |
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| 13:12 | <sney> | other users mostly have newer hardware, and they would have all the files they need in the firmware iso that you already mentioned |
| 13:12 | <mipo> | sney: the driver for this "new hardware" , is it free? |
| 13:12 | <sney> | dpkg: forget just curious how other users |
| 13:12 | <dpkg> | i forgot just curious how other users, sney |
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| 13:13 | <sney> | mipo: all amd graphics modules require non-free (proprietary) firmware. that's just how the amd driver was developed. |
| 13:14 | <mipo> | sney: so my driver is just not included anymore in the iso image then? |
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| 13:14 | <sney> | mipo: as I previously said, it may have been overlooked, because devices that use the 'radeon' driver are less common |
| 13:14 | <blast007> | driver != firmware |
| 13:14 | <sney> | it was not an intentional omission |
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| 13:15 | <Guest1073> | hi all, i have set 4 IP with IP aliasing on my system, can i use each of them for each of 4 workspaces? that is workspace 1 use 192.168.1.1 , workspace 2 use 192.168.1.2 and ... |
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| 13:15 | <mipo> | AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 B26 Processor, 3193.60 MHz, 10-06-03 / ATI Radeon HD 4250 <- is it too old? |
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| 13:16 | <sney> | mipo: it's just less common. so the installer is less likely to be tested on that device. so if support is accidentally missing, nobody would notice. |
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| 13:17 | <sney> | the radeon HD gpus are still supported by the radeon driver, and only need the firmware-amd-graphics package to enable full support. |
| 13:17 | <mipo> | sney: so what iso should i use then, the normal one of the firmware- one? |
| 13:17 | <blast007> | mipo: sorry if I missed it, but do you have firmware-amd-graphics installed? |
| 13:18 | <mipo> | blast007: no, i was expecting it included in firmware-iso |
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| 13:18 | <sney> | mipo: it doesn't matter which iso you use, because you will need to install the firmware-amd-graphics package after you install debian. |
| 13:18 | <sney> | 2nd verse, same as the 1st. |
| 13:18 | <mipo> | sney: i suppose i will not need another firmware not included :) |
| 13:18 | <sney> | (if you are using wifi, the firmware iso is probably a better idea, but that is a separate issue.) |
| 13:18 | <mipo> | ok, i will go with it , see if it works |
| 13:18 | <blast007> | I think the firmware ISO is generally for where you need *network* firmware to install Debian |
| 13:19 | <mipo> | blast007: so any furhter needed firmware can be installed afterwards from packages? |
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| 13:19 | <blast007> | probably |
| 13:20 | <blast007> | that would seem to match your experience, at least, right? :) |
| 13:20 | <mipo> | blast007: you sound like MAster Oogway from Kunf Fu panda |
| 13:21 | <mipo> | ok, thanks |
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| 13:56 | <Guest1073> | hi all, i have set 4 IP with IP aliasing on my system, can i use each of them for each of 4 workspaces? that is workspace 1 use 192.168.1.1 , workspace 2 use 192.168.1.2 and ... |
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| 14:17 | <sarnold> | Guest1073: it probably wouldn't be easy to do -- processes inherit their networking namespace from their parent -- so you'd need a 'new' top-level process for every workspace, set the new IP address in that workspace, and I'm not sure how you'd make that happen :( |
| 14:18 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 994] by debhelper |
| 14:18 | <sarnold> | Guest1073: it reminds me a little of qubesOS though -- they've got a way to run all your applications in their own VMs, and *maybe* there's a way to get each to have their own IP. |
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| 14:23 | <bentham> | Well, if you run four VMs in four separate windows, each with its own workspace inside... |
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| 14:24 | <user1845> | Hi, when i use debian live xfce iso i can start install debian with command in terminal: install-debian. When i try to install debian from debian-live-standard nothing happend. Which command i must enter in terminal? |
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| 14:25 | <bremner> | fwiw, most people use the debian-installer to install debian, not debian-live |
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| 14:27 | <user1845> | how i can install debian from debian-live-standard? which command i must enter in terminal |
| 14:30 | <sney> | user1845: you could certainly do it manually from debootstrap. I don't think there's a command to launch an installer from the live environment though, as bremner noted, most people use the standalone installer iso |
| 14:30 | <sney> | someone did mention that there's a separate boot option for an installer on the standard iso, you may want to reboot and check. |
| 14:30 | <bentham> | I could be snarky and say wget https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-10.10.0-i386-netinst.iso |
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| 14:30 | <towo`> | live is using calamares as installer |
| 14:30 | <towo`> | so the command would be calamares |
| 14:30 | <user1845> | if live gui images have installer and its run with install-debian, so must exist installer in live cli |
| 14:31 | <bremner> | I'm going to assume there's a language barrier here, and you're not telling us how things must be and asking for help at the same time :) |
| 14:32 | <sney> | I don't think calamares has a non-gui frontend |
| 14:33 | <user1845> | maybe cli live iso has non calamers installer |
| 14:33 | <sney> | if it does, it would be a separate option in the bootloader |
| 14:35 | <user1845> | yeah i have options: start debian live, start debian with local language, graphical install, install and other menu |
| 14:35 | <sney> | there it is |
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| 14:35 | <user1845> | i need install debian form live session |
| 14:35 | <sney> | !debootstrap |
| 14:35 | <dpkg> | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap - https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apds03.en.html |
| 14:35 | <sney> | otherwise, what you are asking for does not exist, sorry |
| 14:36 | <user1845> | sney are u maintainer of debain live iso images? |
| 14:37 | <sney> | no. if you would like to make a feature request, you can file a bug |
| 14:37 | <sney> | debian does not rely on "live" images for installation like some distros do. |
| 14:38 | <user1845> | any debian live iso maintainers show up in this channel? |
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| 14:38 | <sney> | if there were, what would you ask them? |
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| 14:39 | <user1845> | How i can install debian from debian-live-standard.iso in live-session |
| 14:40 | <sney> | they will tell you the same options: you can use debootstrap, or you can reboot and select install from the boot menu |
| 14:40 | <sney> | a maintainer will not magically have a different answer than the truth |
| 14:41 | <user1845> | but if gui have simple install from live session, why non-gui cant do it |
| 14:41 | <bremner> | user1845: if you are specifically interested in debian-live, then you may want the channel #debian-live |
| 14:42 | <user1845> | ok thx |
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| 14:42 | <bentham> | can you not run debootstrap from a terminal? |
| 14:42 | <bremner> | they left |
| 14:42 | <bremner> | the golden hammer strikes again |
| 14:42 | <sney> | like they say, you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you can reboot and select what you need from the menu. |
| 14:42 | <sarnold> | classic :) |
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| 14:46 | <jhutchins> | bentham: Yes |
| 14:48 | <jhutchins> | Debootstrap doesn't even have a GUI interface, does it? |
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| 14:48 | <bentham> | Hm, I'm surprised. What is the rationale for not having it be a simple command, maybe with an ncurses-style interface? I've certainly done non-graphical installations many times over the years. |
| 14:48 | <bentham> | or is it something that intrinsically requires its own complete 'os', whether a VM or not. |
| 14:49 | <sney> | I suspect that there is no rationale, it's just a slim edge case that wasn't considered |
| 14:49 | <sney> | and installer isos have development priority |
| 14:49 | <bentham> | Sure. But I'd still call that a bug, even if it is low-priority. |
| 14:50 | <bentham> | And, to be clear, a bug in debootstrap, not a bug in debian-live. |
| 14:51 | <sney> | agreed, being able to run a d-i like installer from live-standard is certainly something to stick on the roadmap. hopefully our friend has communicated that to #debian-live |
| 14:51 | <bremner> | debian-live is really the unloved stepchild afaict |
| 14:51 | <bremner> | well, not that debian-installer is overwhelmed with contributions |
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| 14:53 | <sney> | wasn't that long ago that debian-live was a semi-unofficial project with a debian.net presence |
| 14:55 | <Sqrt{not}> | the standard debian installer, text and graphic, is in that live image, just not the calamares |
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| 14:56 | <Sqrt{not}> | as mentioned above, those are choices at the boot menu. calamares is a GRAPHICAL installer, not available in the standard (i.e. non graphical) live image |
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| 14:56 | <sney> | right, thanks for confirming. |
| 14:57 | <zleap> | i was not even that aware the graphical install was called calamares |
| 14:57 | <Sqrt{not}> | zleap it is not the same as the boot menu graphical installer |
| 14:57 | <Sqrt{not}> | %calamares |
| 14:57 | <dselect> | Starting in Debian 10 Buster, the Calamares installer is included in the debian-live boot images. The normal installer is also included, in the first menu after boot. Once in the live system look for an Install Debian icon, or type: 'sudo calamares' https://github.com/calamares/calamares/wiki https://jonathancarter.org/2019/10/17/calamares-plans-for-debian-11/ and https://averagelinuxuser.com/debian-10-calamares/ |
| 14:58 | <zleap> | ah ok |
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| 15:05 | <tjader1> | Are there any long-term plans to replace d-i? |
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| 15:07 | <sney> | not that I've heard of |
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| 15:11 | <zleap> | what is a good alternative to xfce4-notes |
| 15:11 | <zleap> | given that is no longer part of xfce4-goodies |
| 15:12 | <petn-randall> | zleap: It's a separate package, though. You can still install it. |
| 15:12 | <zleap> | ok |
| 15:12 | <zleap> | how though ? |
| 15:12 | <petn-randall> | ,v xfce4-notes |
| 15:12 | <judd> | Package: xfce4-notes on amd64 -- jessie: 1.7.7-5; stretch: 1.8.1-1; buster: 1.8.1-2; experimental: 1.9.0-1 |
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| 15:12 | <zleap> | apt install xfce4-notes fails |
| 15:13 | <petn-randall> | zleap: What OS release are you running? |
| 15:13 | <zleap> | debian 11 |
| 15:13 | <petn-randall> | Ah! That explains it. |
| 15:13 | <sney> | ,bug rm xfce4-notes |
| 15:13 | <judd> | Sorry, no removal reasons were found. |
| 15:13 | <zleap> | i need to find an alternative |
| 15:14 | <zleap> | as it is useful |
| 15:14 | <sney> | #955349 obsolete dependency, bummer |
| 15:14 | <judd> | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/955349 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: xfce4-notes-plugin -- RoQA; depends on obsolete libunique»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-03-30; last modified: 2020-04-30. |
| 15:14 | <zleap> | ok |
| 15:14 | <zleap> | so someone needs to update libunique |
| 15:15 | <petn-randall> | zleap: "gnote"? "knotes"? "note"? |
| 15:15 | <petn-randall> | zleap: I'd probably go with gnote if you're on xfce4. |
| 15:15 | <zleap> | ok thanks |
| 15:15 | <sney> | the package in experimental seems to have removed that dependency, it may make its way into sid and then bullseye-backports at some point |
| 15:16 | <zleap> | so it may then end up in trixie (deb 12) |
| 15:17 | <sney> | !bookworm |
| 15:17 | <dpkg> | The release following Debian 11 "Bullseye" is codenamed "Bookworm" and will be Debian 12. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/04/msg00006.html Bookworm is the librarian in Toy Story 3, a big green worm with a flashlight and keeper of the instruction manuals. |
| 15:17 | <zleap> | ah ok, so its deb 13 that is trixie |
| 15:18 | <sney> | only 4 years until we can begin to be free of these b names |
| 15:18 | <alex11> | it's pretty silly lol |
| 15:18 | <zleap> | i have to admit having 3 codenames all starting with B does kinda get confusing |
| 15:18 | <alex11> | buster bullseye bookworm |
| 15:19 | <sarnold> | certainly I can't keep em straight :) |
| 15:19 | <alex11> | bullshit! |
| 15:19 | <sney> | I have mis-typed bullseye as buster (and vice versa) so many times while trying to help people, and it always confuses the situation |
| 15:19 | <jhutchins> | I dunno, I generally just open a terminal and run vi. |
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| 15:20 | <alex11> | i wonder if they draw it out of a hat or something, which toy story name to use this time |
| 15:20 | <sarnold> | just how many more characters are left? |
| 15:21 | <zleap> | https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Pricklepants |
| 15:21 | <zleap> | sarnold, not sure, if they make another movie, we will have more names to choose from |
| 15:22 | <craigevil> | bookworm is next after bullseye, then trixie |
| 15:22 | <zleap> | yeah |
| 15:22 | <craigevil> | at least according to debian-disro-info |
| 15:23 | <zleap> | after that, who knows, |
| 15:23 | <alex11> | probably something lame like mathematical symbols or something |
| 15:23 | <sarnold> | I wonder how long it'll last before we need to crowdfund a new one :) |
| 15:23 | <alex11> | but afaik we're not due to run out soon |
| 15:23 | <zleap> | Lotso is the evil bear in sunnyside nursery, so we will reserve that for windows 11 :D |
| 15:24 | <zleap> | i think there are lots of characters left |
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| 15:24 | <sney> | 1 character name every 2 years, and 4 movies (so far) to source from, someone who isn't born yet will be DPL before we run out |
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| 15:25 | <alex11> | i've seen some people seriously complain about, why even have codenames, just call it debian 10 or 11 |
| 15:25 | <alex11> | and i like the names, it gives it character |
| 15:26 | <zleap> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toy_Story_characters |
| 15:26 | <alex11> | (despite me not watching toy story) |
| 15:26 | <zleap> | it is a good excuse to watch toy story i guess esp users who have kids |
| 15:26 | <sney> | plus, having a codename before release makes the pre-release distinction clearer |
| 15:26 | <zleap> | and collect toy story toys |
| 15:26 | <sney> | so you don't have some inexperienced rando complaining about how unusable debian 12 is 2 months from now, there is no debian 12 yet |
| 15:27 | <zleap> | i know sid is for the development branch, hes the kid next door who breaks / tortures toys |
| 15:27 | <sney> | yeah that one is clever |
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| 15:28 | <alex11> | it also ties the project together with its previous history |
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| 15:29 | <alex11> | so you remember people like bruce perens, a former DPL who i think came up with the idea to use toy story names, he worked for pixar |
| 15:29 | <zleap> | no |
| 15:29 | <zleap> | i do have a copy of debian 1.2 somewhere |
| 15:29 | <zleap> | but i started off with slackware |
| 15:30 | <zleap> | partlyas it took till about kernel 2.0.30 to get decent cd drive support |
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| 15:30 | <zleap> | unless you were some sort of super hacker who could do the techy stuff |
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| 15:35 | <PYRULITO> | Hi! What version of Kernel is Debian 10.10 using it? |
| 15:35 | <zleap> | so what would we used as a code name for Stinky Pete the Prospector |
| 15:35 | <PYRULITO> | What version of Kernel is Debian 10.10 using right now? |
| 15:35 | <jmcnaught> | ,kernels |
| 15:35 | <judd> | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-7-686 (5.10.40-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.7-686-pae (5.10.40-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 15:35 | <judd> | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 15:36 | <sney> | PYRULITO: 4.19.0-17 |
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| 15:36 | <PYRULITO> | Thank You. |
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| 16:27 | <r4fkramer> | Congratulations to Debian Community for providing the most Stable UNIX-Like known. Debian Warriors are the Best ! https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye?fbclid=IwAR0le-yTLEHEx9RPK7u0yQh5FCqSJB3ILfQZMeYOIx9032SNLPBnGF2GPC0 |
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| 16:29 | -!- | TCZ is "Jan Kowalski" on #debian #archownia.pl #moocows #archlinux.org.pl #devuan #openstack-pl |
| 16:29 | <ratrace> | the jury is still out on that with the RC count actually growing lately :) |
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| 16:35 | <r4fkramer> | I see, ratrace |
| 16:36 | <ratrace> | but once it releases, it'll probably be "the best Debian released so far", yes :) |
| 16:39 | <r4fkramer> | Agree ratrace, I have no doubts about this. Debian Community excels with each release, and has continually done so throughout its history :) |
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| 16:42 | <jmcnaught> | r4fkramer: by the way in the URL that you shared only https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye is needed, the ?fbclid=… that follows is a Facebook click identifier and not needed or part of the real URL. |
| 16:43 | <r4fkramer> | jmcnaught, sorry for mistake, and thanks for advice :) |
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| 16:51 | <user_> | testing |
| 16:52 | <towo`> | no, stable |
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| 16:56 | * | enyc meows |
| 16:57 | <Catoptromancy> | m00 |
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| 16:57 | <enyc> | still gettnig people appear in old freenode channels ;/ bleurgh |
| 16:58 | <ansgar> | enyc: Yes, people still show up thinking official project channels can be found there. Then ban any mentioning this is not true to capture them :-) |
| 16:59 | <ansgar> | At least dpkg's factoids shouldn't direct people to channels on freenode any longer :) |
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| 17:00 | <enyc> | ansgar: aah you sorted that out, r so, good =) |
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| 17:01 | <ansgar> | Yes, a few factoids every day. Should be pretty much done by now, even though I feel many projects mentioned in them might no longer exist anyway. |
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| 17:04 | <Sqrt{not}> | https://ircbots.debian.net/factoids/search.php?q=freenode&term=value |
| 17:04 | <enyc> | ansgar: I did my bit redirecting peolpe nad stuff1 |
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| 17:14 | <Sqrt{not}> | a couple of those are half-changed, for example: |
| 17:14 | <Sqrt{not}> | !ubuntuirc enyc |
| 17:14 | <dpkg> | enyc: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server irc.libera.chat and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu |
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| 17:17 | <ansgar> | Sqrt{not}: I failed to edit/change any factoids that have arguments... |
| 17:18 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 986] by debhelper |
| 17:18 | <Sqrt{not}> | that's OK, just pointing out it mentions both libera and freenode |
| 17:18 | <Sqrt{not}> | someone else changed it I guess |
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| 17:46 | <kteague> | Greetings |
| 17:48 | <Sqrt{not}> | hi kteague |
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| 17:53 | <PYRULITO> | Hi. |
| 17:53 | <PYRULITO> | What bring you here? |
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| 19:04 | <PYRULITO> | I would like to share a note. DNS-over-TLS only with Unbound on Debian 9 because systemd-resolved do not have DoT on Debian 9. |
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| 19:05 | -!- | alex11 is "your worst nightmare" on #bitlbee #debian-next #debian |
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| 19:08 | <PYRULITO> | I will give a shoot with BIND some day. |
| 19:08 | <PYRULITO> | Now, Unbound works fine to me. |
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| 19:11 | <Sqrt{not}> | PYRULITO, note that Debian 9 is old-stable, and will become old-old-stable in a month or so. Current stable is Debian 10, and Debian 11 will become the new stable in a month or so. You should consider upgrading at some point. |
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| 19:29 | <tizef> | hi! what should I put in my /etc/nerwork/interfaces for i start DOWN ? so then I will have to manually do ifup wlp5s9 to get online right ? |
| 19:29 | <raghavgururajan> | Hello Folks! |
| 19:29 | <tizef> | hey neighbor |
| 19:29 | <raghavgururajan> | I came across this vulnerability report and wanted to share. https://blog.ryotak.me/post/cdnjs-remote-code-execution-en/ |
| 19:30 | <sarnold> | tizef: I think you just need to remove the 'auto' from the interfaces in question |
| 19:33 | <tizef> | ok sarnold, on the spot i give a try |
| 19:33 | <tizef> | reboot |
| 19:33 | <tizef> | oops |
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| 19:38 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 971] by debhelper |
| 19:38 | <PYRULITO> | Do you know anyone working with IRCv3 Project? |
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| 19:39 | <tizef> | sarnold, the same |
| 19:39 | <tizef> | no chnge here |
| 19:39 | <sarnold> | tizef: dang :/ |
| 19:40 | <tizef> | yaa |
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| 19:41 | <PYRULITO> | Never mind. |
| 19:43 | <dvs> | tizef: Same? It always tries to connect to the network? |
| 19:44 | <tizef> | it's just connected |
| 19:44 | <tizef> | ok I can show to you my file |
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| 19:46 | <tizef> | https://paste.debian.net/1204626/ |
| 19:47 | <sarnold> | so, which interface is connected? what's in the /etc/network/interfaces.d/* files? |
| 19:47 | <dvs> | tizef: are you tring to prevent wlp2s0? |
| 19:47 | <tizef> | yes |
| 19:47 | <dvs> | tizef: comment out line 16 |
| 19:48 | <tizef> | ok I give the try |
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| 19:51 | <tizef> | \o/ |
| 19:51 | <tizef> | congrates |
| 19:51 | <tizef> | thanks |
| 19:51 | <dvs> | np |
| 19:52 | <tizef> | actually I try to prevent our kids from missusing the net |
| 19:53 | <Sqrt{not}> | OK, old-timer, but you know that won't last too long. |
| 19:53 | <dvs> | heh |
| 19:53 | <tizef> | so like that I get few years before they involve in shell and hack the root password |
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| 19:54 | <tizef> | yeah hehe |
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| 20:02 | <sarnold> | it'll be a good education for them :) |
| 20:02 | <tizef[m]> | Yes! True |
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| 21:27 | <jhutchins> | I wonder if there's a "none" directive instead of auto. |
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| 21:28 | <sney> | that would be 'manual' |
| 21:28 | <urk> | What is the name of open office in the repos? I have a problem with Libreoffice, and the tables don't work in the latest version for the stable release. I'm hoping this is still working in open office. |
| 21:30 | <jhutchins> | sney: Makes sense |
| 21:30 | <sussudio> | bobby tables? |
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| 21:31 | <jhutchins> | !openoffice |
| 21:31 | <dpkg> | OpenOffice is a productivity suite based on Sun's StarOffice. http://wiki.debian.org/OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ See also <debian ooo> and <libreoffice>. OpenOffice is no longer packaged starting from wheezy, but its fork LibreOffice is: http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110623 |
| 21:31 | <dvs> | too bad bullseye is gonna miss LibreOffice 7.2 |
| 21:31 | <sney> | if you are having trouble with libreoffice calc, you might want to try your file in gnumeric instead |
| 21:32 | <jhutchins> | urk: I believe you can get OO .deb packages from Oracle. |
| 21:32 | <urk> | There is a need to create a package for OPen Office. Having both insures there is functionality when one has bugs. Hopefully this is something people will reconsider. Each has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. |
| 21:32 | <jhutchins> | urk: License not compatible, won't happen. |
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| 21:32 | <urk> | ok |
| 21:33 | <jhutchins> | Seems like there was another fork as well... |
| 21:34 | <nighthawk> | there would also be free office |
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| 21:59 | <urk> | jhutchins: I don't see any .deb files on the Apache website. Inside the Desktop Integration folder I see suse, redhat mandriva, and freedesktop. .Deb is not to be found. |
| 22:01 | <quadrat> | urk sounds like you need to download the tar.gz https://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#linux-deb |
| 22:01 | <quadrat> | as there are debs inside |
| 22:01 | <urk> | quadrat: I downloaded, decompressed, and there are no .deb to be found. |
| 22:02 | <quadrat> | see the link, it says there is a deb directory inside |
| 22:03 | <urk> | I know it says there is a .deb in there. I just discovered that I might be missing some required packages for this version, and I am installing those now. |
| 22:03 | <quadrat> | ahh, you need to select the deb tar gz version (in the drop down) |
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| 22:08 | <urk> | There is definitely no .deb files on the apache site for the latest version. Pretty surprised by this. I see Suse, Madrake, Redhat, and Fredesktop, but that is it. |
| 22:09 | <urk> | I am going to need to find another free editor. There are too many problems with the latest version of LibreOffice for Debian stable. |
| 22:09 | <sney> | There seems to be a link near the bottom that says "unofficial debian repository" |
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| 22:09 | <sney> | you could also try abiword. |
| 22:10 | <urk> | JUst realized I downloaded the wrong file. duhh |
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| 22:26 | <urk> | Any thoughts on tar syntax? Can I just use tar -x file.deb? |
| 22:26 | <sney> | why would you use tar on a deb package? |
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| 22:26 | <urk> | sney: What do you recommend? |
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| 22:27 | <sney> | urk: I would recommend reading the instructions at https://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#linux-deb |
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| 22:28 | <alex11> | in *general* i've seen people use ar to unpack .deb files and not tar (to say nothing of what you're trying to do) |
| 22:28 | <alex11> | if you do need to unpack a .deb, in future |
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| 22:39 | <urk> | sney: read instructions, but get two error messages: child returned status 2, and Error is not recoverable: exiting now. |
| 22:40 | <urk> | I must have messed something up. |
| 22:40 | <sney> | urk: 3rd party packages are not supported in #debian, but yes, you should probably just start over and make sure you aren't skipping any steps. |
| 22:41 | <urk> | Someone needs to let the developers of LibreOffice know there are problems with the tables. Libreoffice has a tendency to release updates without sufficiently checking for inconsistencies. |
| 22:41 | <sney> | !reportbug |
| 22:41 | <dpkg> | reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA> |
| 22:42 | <sney> | I'm sure libreoffice.org has some kind of issue reporting function too. maybe instead of waiting for "someone" to "let the developers know", you could send an email. |
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| 22:42 | <dvs> | and LibreOffice is about to have a new release with a whole lotta fixes |
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| 22:49 | <urk> | sney: I assume I need to delete the /tmp folder since its full of stuff. What do I need to do to get a clean start? Don't recall having this type of problem before when running tar commands. |
| 22:51 | <sney> | I see no mention of a "/tmp folder" in steps 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. |
| 22:51 | <urk> | sney: The tar command unpacks to the /tmp folder |
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| 22:52 | <urk> | Initially I mistakely ran the command with only an -x instead of the -xvzf |
| 22:52 | -!- | Strife89 [~quassel@adsl-74-250-142-181.ags.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian |
| 22:52 | -!- | Strife89 is "Joni Carr" on #debian |
| 22:52 | <urk> | LiberOffice is definitely not going to work for me. Its got a lot of bugs, and in the past I just used Open Office until the next LibreOffice fixed a few things. |
| 22:53 | <sney> | you can unpack the tar archive again without deleting the directory it unpacked to before, it will just overwrite the old files. |
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| 22:53 | -!- | Itsolution is "realname" on #debian |
| 22:53 | <sney> | have you reported the bugs you are experiencing with libreoffice, or have you checked if they have been reported, either in debian or upstream? |
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| 22:55 | <urk> | I reported the bugs unofficially to the #libreoffice channel, but haven't as of yet reported them upstream to Debian. Lates version of LiberOffice is definitely not ready for prime time, and is almost unusable. |
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| 22:57 | <sney> | you should know that nobody in #debian is going to report bugs for you, so if you want to make sure that your issue is never fixed, you should continue only complaining in irc. |
| 22:57 | <sney> | for all other options, send an email, either to the debian bts or whatever upstream uses. |
| 22:58 | <urk> | I think I am dealing with a corrupted tar file. |
| 22:59 | -!- | madez [~madez@ip-176-198-251-181.hsi05.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: .] |
| 22:59 | <urk> | But curious if anyone else also gets that error. |
| 22:59 | <sney> | you can 'tar tf filename.tar.gz' to look at the contents |
| 23:01 | <dvs> | *gasp* no z |
| 23:01 | <sney> | amazing, modern (i.e. the past decade) tar can detect the compression type by itself :P |
| 23:02 | * | dvs gasps again |
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| 23:05 | -!- | madez is "madez" on #debian |
| 23:07 | <sney> | true hackers only use -xzvvvpf |
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| 23:21 | <sussudio> | tar +++ATH0 |
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| 23:24 | <alex11> | https://xkcd.com/1168/ |
| 23:24 | <sney> | could never relate to that one |
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| 23:36 | <jhutchins> | You can get really lost in the weeds, but for the basics it's not that hard. |
| 23:36 | <jhutchins> | Kinda like rsync. |
| 23:38 | <alex11> | yeah. for rsync i basically use -av for initial copy (-a fulfills a lot of options) |
| 23:38 | <alex11> | and then some variant of --update --delete-after |
| 23:38 | <alex11> | depending on your needs |
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| 23:42 | -!- | newtons is "newtons" on #debian |
| 23:45 | <magyar> | hi, can upgrade from 9 to 11 or do I need to do 10 first? |
| 23:45 | <alex11> | do 10 first |
| 23:45 | <magyar> | k, thanks alex11 |
| 23:45 | <alex11> | people have skipped a release semi successfully but it's not recommended |
| 23:45 | <alex11> | read the release notes |
| 23:46 | <magyar> | dpkg bot used to have a quick howto for upgrades, is it still there? |
| 23:46 | <dpkg> | that's too long, magyar |
| 23:46 | <magyar> | bahh |
| 23:46 | <alex11> | dpkg, stretch -> buster |
| 23:46 | <dpkg> | alex11: i haven't a clue |
| 23:46 | <alex11> | idk |
| 23:48 | <magyar> | -_- |
| 23:48 | <magyar> | no whitespaces work |
| 23:48 | <magyar> | thanks alex11 |
| 23:48 | <jhutchins> | Usually those don't get updated until relese. |
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| 23:51 | -!- | z2cat is "z2cat" on #debian |
| 23:52 | <magyar> | so far so good.. |
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| 23:58 | <magyar> | dpkg.stretch->buster |
| 23:58 | <magyar> | dpkg,stretch->buster |
| 23:58 | <dpkg> | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove lines like stretch-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues then do: apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade |
| --- | Log | closed Sat Jul 17 00:00:14 2021 |
