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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-19

---Logopened Mon Jul 19 00:00:17 2021
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00:45-!-qoreQyaS is "Sven Grewe - AS35258" on #debian
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00:52<A|an>Is 1.3GB in /var/lib completely crazy?
00:53<raven523>it depends on what the files are in /var/lib
00:55<A|an>I think I set up root with 22-ish GB, figuring that had to be plenty...I think I'm going to have to do a reinstall...when's Bullseye coming out?
00:55<aloo_shu>package lists, xapian-indexes
00:56<A|an>31st of July 2021
00:57<A|an>how opportune
00:57<raven523>you could use a tool like ncdu to see how much space each directory andn its contents take up
00:57<aloo_shu>^^
00:57<aloo_shu>just did, right before posting :)
00:58<Sqrt{not}>!wwbr
00:58<dpkg>Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready." Release day we're working to currently - as discussed in various mailing lists is August 14th 2021. There's a hard freeze from July 17th with only the most urgent security fixes after that date. The main CD builder died - all disks failed at once, so the current target is August 14th, or even later.
00:58<jm_>cd /var/lib && du -sk * | sort -n
00:58<A|an>yeah, i'll pick through it all
00:59<A|an>thx
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01:12<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, bullseye =~ s/07-31/08-14/
01:12<dpkg>OK, Sqrt{not}
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04:07<MX>hi
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04:08<Guest1370>ok
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05:25<grove>Hi. I installed flatpak from the Buster repos, and the slack (that the company I work for has unfortunate started requiring) flatpak from flathub. When I `flatpak --user run com.slack.Slack &!`, slack starts and shows a welcome page with a "Sign In to Slack" button, but some errors on appear on the terminal, see https://paste.debian.net/1204870/. When I press that I get "Failed to call portal" ...
05:25<grove>... (complete message at mentioned paste) in the terminal I started slack from.
05:28<grove>I thik I read somewhere that flatpaks depends on a DE, but since it was only on one page (or was it a youtube video - watched through freetube), and it seemed to work I ignored that, but maybe that is what gives a portal? I just run i3 (a window manager) on top of my X
05:28<grove>s/thik/think/
05:28<grove>Can anyone suggest what I should install to make that flatpak work?
05:30<jm_>no idea based on those localized error messages, but do you have dbus user session running?
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05:33<grove>Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that, only the message I get when I press the button seems to be in Danish, and prefixing the command with 'LANG=C ' does seem to change that :-(
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05:38<grove>But what I think is the important part is in english, but the last part translatedto something like: 'no such interface "org.freedesktop.portal.OpenURI" on the object at path /org/freedesktop/portal/desktop' (the quotes are my guess, it's question marks in my terminal and on the paste, guess it's some unicode charaters that are broken)
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08:46<jkc>!bullseye
08:46<dpkg>The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. Tentative release date: 2021-08-14. Good bug reports on packages and upgrades are greatly appreciated! https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye . Bullseye is Debian turned up to 11! <buster->bullseye> <install bullseye>
08:46<jkc>Ooooh. Right around my birthday.
08:47<amacater>jkc: It's in hard freeze as of Saturday last - so the next few weeks are shakedown and getting the media building machine working again.
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08:50<jkc>Sounds like testing is in order!
08:50<jkc>Well, more testing.
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08:53<ansgar>The interesting trivia question is: is this the first Debian release delayed by a failing machine? :)
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08:59<amacater>Don't know - don't think so :)
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09:02<amacater>We've had other releases delayed - up to and including where a data centre caught on fire ...
09:03<amacater>[apparently - I just asked in #debian-uk :) ]
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09:11<bethuel>h
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09:15<jkc>amacater: Heh, that reminds me of a funny phone call/incident I had to handle when I was a systems engineer.
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09:16<jkc>On-call phone rings on a Saturday night. I answer it, and ask "alright, what's on fire?" "Uh, client's datacenter. How'd you know?" "You're calling me. What's wrong with it?" "It's on fire." ... "Literally?" "Yes, it's literally on fire."
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09:51<mrckndt>grove, you need to ensure the xdg-desktop-portal is running
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10:00<mrckndt>With a DE like GNOME it's being started by it (i think by dbus). I'm having no desktop Debian system so i can't try. There is a systemd service inside the xdg-desktop-portal-gtk package; starting this might work or just use an exec in your i3wm conf exec /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal -r
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11:26<scorpion2185[m]>does gnome have switch user button?
11:31<amacater>At the login manager, yes
11:32<bremner>so does lightdm, iirc
11:32<scorpion2185[m]>but in the panel when you are logged in I didn't see it
11:33<grawity>the lockscreen has the option to log in as another user
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11:37<donalhunt[m]>yep. I switch users all the time on my debian system. :)
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11:38<scorpion2185[m]>multi-session? And what is a NP-problem ?
11:39<scorpion2185[m]> * multi-session? And what is NP-complete?
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11:41*bremner looks blank
11:43<Sqrt{not}>Not really on topic here, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness
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12:04<wyre>hi guys, I'm having timeouts for hardware interruptions https://jfernandz.me/~wyre/interruption.log after configuring rsyslog to forward logs to the SDcard http://ix.io/3trl (SDcard partition is mounted in /data)
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12:06<grawity>really I'm just guessing that your SD card can't keep up and you should configure rsyslog to fsync less often
12:06<jhutchins>wyre: Are you seeing effects from this, or just log entries.
12:07<wyre>jhutchins, yes, it's slowing down the whole system
12:07<petn-randall>wyre: Very likely your SD card is too slow for this.
12:07<wyre>petn-randall, sure, I'd like to try the grawity suggestion
12:07<wyre>but how can I configure rsyslog to do this?
12:07<grawity>why do people keep saying "lol don't worry about log entries if nothing crashes" :(
12:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 978] by debhelper
12:08<grawity>but also, why *is* it an SD card
12:08<grawity>this doesn't look like a log from a tiny rpi or other SBC
12:08<wyre>it's a SBC actually 😀
12:09<wyre>this one, actually https://www.duagon.com/products/computing/box-pc/details/bc51m/#over
12:09<grawity>hmm actually I don't know how rsyslog is configured for that
12:10<grawity>oh, prefix the logfile path with a -, I guess
12:10<wyre>grawity, which one? http://ix.io/3trl most of them are prefixed with a -
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12:14<grawity>I'd say all of them
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12:43<grove>mrckndt: As I read `apt show xdg-desktop-portal` it basically says that you need to choose a UI and install e.g. xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
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12:46<mrckndt>grove, yep that's right.
12:48<grove>Now I have installed that, but even though `sudo dpkg -L xdg-desktop-portal-gtk` shows the presence of /usr/lib/systemd/user/xdg-desktop-portal-gtk.service, `sudo systemctl status xdg-desktop-portal-gtk` says 'Unit xdg-desktop-portal-gtk.service could not be found.'. Do I need to log out and in again? Or perhaps reboot for it to be started prperly?
12:50<ansgar>grove: It is a user service not run by the system systemd instance. Use `systemctl --user`; might need a `systemctl --user daemon-reload` if you just installed it.
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12:54<scorpion2185[m]>Sqrt{not}: it was on Deb handbook, and I found an error
12:55<grove>ansgar: Thnak you. I really should have seen that from the path
12:55<scorpion2185[m]>"1. lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Testing;" in "1.6.3. Migration to Testing"
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12:59<scorpion2185[m]>shouldn't it be " included in Unstable"?
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13:10<numbereight>Hey, I spent all last night trying to figure out why ny framebuffer keeps getting deleted. It happens right after installing the DisplayLink Drivers. I have reinstalled debian a few times to make sure. Heres my xorg logs paste.debian.net/1204917
13:11<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: I don't see an error there.
13:12<numbereight>theres a few error messages near the bottom
13:12<numbereight>oh wait nvm
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13:46<scorpion2185[m]>bremner: 1.6.3. Migration to Testing
13:46<scorpion2185[m]>1. lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Testing; <---- error included in Unstable this is when it is migrated to testing can't be testing again
13:47<EmleyMoor>I have a Kodi installation from stable on one of my machines, and I want to get the Indigo plugin working on it - admittedly that plugin is third party, and I'm hitting a problem I can't fathom out. The apparent official forum is not responding. On a pure offchance, does anyone know how to do this on Debian?
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13:48<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: section 1.6.3 of what document? Also, I still don't see the problem. It is comparing the candidate for testing with the one that is already there.
13:48<bremner>"Deb handbook" is not a think I recognize
13:48<bremner>or a thing
13:49<scorpion2185[m]>!handbook
13:49<dpkg>The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. From Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also be installed from the debian-handbook package. Also ask me about <books> <docs>. PDF at https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf
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13:49<bremner>OK. So, it's not a Debian project document, and you didn't find a mistake.
13:50<scorpion2185[m]>So if a package has lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Testing, it is migrated to TEsting
13:50<scorpion2185[m]>sure...
13:51<bremner>reality is a bit more complicated, but that sounds basically correct.
13:52<bremner>Also, I guess it probably says "release critical" bugs, since that is the established terminology
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13:53<scorpion2185[m]>The chapter before talks abotu unstabla and the MIgration to testing but sure it must be migrated from testing to testing
13:53<scorpion2185[m]> * The chapter before talks about unstabla and then MIgration to testing but sure it must be migrated from testing to testing
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13:56<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: Packages can't migrate from testing to testing. That doesn't even make sense.
13:57<scorpion2185[m]>I know that's why it must be UNstable
13:58<choozy>Does debian have a automatic vulnerability scanning system for packages? For known programming mistakes that may invoke vulnerabilities or something that looks for it when compiling the repository of Debian packages?
13:58<scorpion2185[m]>but so is not an official Deb document?
13:59<imMute>scorpion2185[m]: no, http://debian-handbook.info/ does not appear to be an official Debian Project document.
13:59<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: a) it's not an official document, it's a project by Raphael Hertzog. b) the text you cite doesn't claim anything about migrating from testing to testing.
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14:01<amacater>It isn't an official doc - but it is written by (at least) two DDs and proof-read by more - and free for you as a package because the costs of the book were met from donation :)
14:01<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: A packages in unstable that has fixed some, but not all RC bugs of the same package in testing may still migrate.
14:01<scorpion2185[m]>it claims: 1.6.3. Migration to Testing
14:01<scorpion2185[m]> lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Testing;
14:01<scorpion2185[m]>but instead it should be "included in Unstable"
14:02<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: Yes, "foo" in testing has 3 RC bugs. Someone fixes 2 of them and uploads foo to unstable. That package is still allowed to migrate since it fixes 2 RC bugs, even if one still remains.
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14:02<amacater>scorpion2185[m]: The fight aginst bugs is asymptotic
14:02<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: No, that change in wording does not reflect what the current status quo is.
14:03<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: There can't exist two version of the same package in unstable, so you statement doesn't even make sense.
14:04<petn-randall>*versions *your
14:04<amacater>choozy: Do you know an automatic vuln scanning system that reads and fixes source code? All Debian packages are now built from source: no binary uploads now.
14:06<scorpion2185[m]>I say that it should be "lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Unstable;" this is 1 of the condition for the the "Migration to Testing" from Unstable, so no more UNstable version but only testing version
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14:10<Sqrt{not}>scorpion2185[m], so your solution could result in testing having an increasing number of bugs. that doesn't sound right
14:10<vv221>scorpion2185[m], you should re-read the sentence again ;) What is written in the book is correct, your proposal is adding an error.
14:11<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: I don't know what your native language is, but I feel like you are failing to understand the plain english you are quoting.
14:11<vv221>This is the package *currently in unstable* that needs to have fewer RC bugs than the one currently in testing to allow the unstable → testing migration.
14:11<bremner>maybe check on of the translations of the same document?
14:12<bremner>or if you are going to put this much effort into it, read Debian Policy
14:12<bremner>now I'm curious where migration policy is really written down
14:15<bremner>https://www.debian.org/devel/testing
14:16<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: You have a logical error here. If "foo" in testing has 1 RC bug, and "foo" in unstable has 3, then the statement "or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Unstable" would be true, meaning the package from unstable would migrate to testing.
14:16<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: And this is exactly the *opposite* from what we want.
14:16<petn-randall>And I'm not sure if there's a language barrier, or you're at this point just being stubborn.
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14:21<scorpion2185[m]>just being wrong, i thought about a package that moves from UNst. to Testing and I didn't think that it usually has already a testing version
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14:22<donalhunt[m]>bremner: I come to the same conclusion.
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14:24<donalhunt[m]>scorpion2185: fair point. I'm guessing the inclusion of a new package goes through a different flow though. I'm not familiar with package management / maintenance though.
14:27<imMute>new packages definitely have a slighty different process/rules.
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15:21<alex___>Hello, I was wondering if someone might be able to tell me if a ThinkPad X13 is compatible with debian
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15:22<sarnold>it'll depend upon what exact components are inside the thing
15:23<sarnold>there's no easy way to know what your experience will be before trying, tbh. thinkpads have historically been pretty good with linux.
15:23<bremner>https://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/solutions/pd500423-linux-certification-thinkpad-x13-20t3z59gus
15:24<bremner>a bit short on detail that
15:26<alex___>Right, I ran across a post on reddit where someone was not able to get Debian 10 running at the time
15:27<alex___>Said something about kernel compatibility with the x13, and that debian 11 might be worth trying?
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15:27<bremner>could be. recent kernels are often needed for new hardware.
15:27<bremner>Do you have one?
15:27<bremner>(x13)
15:28<alex___>considering buying it so unfortunately cant try it out
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15:28<alex___>how recent is the kernel in 11?
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15:29<blast007>bullseye is 5.10
15:30<petn-randall>alex___: You can always use the newest kernel (5.13) if the stock one doesn't support all components. I'd expect pretty much everything to work, though.
15:31<sarnold>iirc lenovo's got a handful of machines with fedora pre-installed, and the fedora folks apparently got them to agree to only-upstreamed-drivers; a fedora preinstalled system would probably have pretty good chance of working
15:32<bremner>alex___: there are 5 different x13's listed
15:32<bremner>it might matter which one
15:32<alex___>was thinking of the yoga model, as it's the one with the least hardware shortages atm
15:34<sarnold>I've never tried one of those but I have the impression they're quite a bit more 'budget' models and less likely to have linux-friendly hardware onboard
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15:46<alex___>does using a newer kernel pose any big compatibility issues if I were running, say, debian 10 or 11?
15:46<alex___>apologie if that's a bit of a basic question, I am not exactly super well versed with linux, despite using it for a few years
15:47<azeem>11 is using a pretty uptodate kernel to begin with I thought
15:47<bremner>alex___: no, that's typically fine, except for the install step, which can be a bit tricky
15:47<azeem>in general, it should only be a problem if you use stuff like 3rd party proprietary drivers or other 3rd party applications that require specific kernel drivers
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15:48<somiaj>alex___: there have only been a few cases where kernel version mattered much when running debian (often due to some new feature needed by the core).
15:49<bremner>it is also fairly easy to make a debian package from the upstream kernel sources, if necessary
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15:51<alex___>okay thank you all for your help! I think I'll have to give picking up this laptop a bit more thought
15:53<alex___>I'd honestly rather pick up something a bit older as compatibility wouldn't be in question, but getting a warranty on the hardware that lasts a while would be ideal
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16:06<afwefaw>Hi!
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16:06<afwefaw>Where can I look for debian iso checksums?
16:06<afwefaw>easy way please, a sha256 or so
16:06<afwefaw>xD
16:07<sney>in the same directory as the iso, e.g. https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd
16:07<sney>(it's well known that this is not clear on debian.org)
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16:08<afwefaw>Thank you Sney! Verified!
16:09<afwefaw>God we need noobfriendly aproach xD
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16:13*sney waits patiently for https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml/-/merge_requests/699 to be approved, or something like it
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16:43<mimmo>paycheck
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16:45<sarnold>mimmo: if that's a password it's not very good :)
16:47<mimmo>grazie, e solo una prova.
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18:12<jim>hi, wheres docs for borgmatic?
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18:14<sussudio>!borgmatic
18:15<sussudio>,v borgmatic
18:15<judd>Package: borgmatic on amd64 -- buster: 1.2.11-1; bullseye: 1.5.12-2; sid: 1.5.12-2
18:15<petn-randall>jim: On their homepage: https://torsion.org/borgmatic/
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18:18<otisolsen70>How do I best go about scheduling a python program to run every night inside a python-virtualenv? Can I do this in a one-liner via cron?
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18:19<sarnold>you can, but at some point it's easier / more legible to write a script to set up your program environment and run that script from within cron
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18:20<sarnold>where that 'easier / more legible' falls is entirely up to you; what's involved in setting up the environment correctly?
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18:26<otisolsen70>sarnold, I need to be a specific user. THen I need to call ". venv/bin/activate && myapp build" in a specific folder
18:27<otisolsen70>sarnold, but can I just put that bit in crontab? Does the venv environment work in cron?
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18:33<sarnold>otisolsen70: cron usually starts programs with a much shorter PATH than usual; you could probably put "sh -c 'cd /wherever ; . /path/to/the/venv/bin/activate && myapp build'" into the crontab
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18:33<otisolsen70>sarnold, ok. Thanks.
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18:38<jim>petn-randall, ok, cool, thanks
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19:09<tizef>hi my people ! I need to install debian 11 once ready on 3 computers... I am currently living in a poor country, I am also poor(and happy!) and so... I have a very limited Data credit... so I would like to download net-install.iso then few stuffs like xorg, openbox, browser, office and design softwares like that... but I don't want to download packages x3, juste 1 time... I came around apt-offline "however any other suggestions okay" and but I don't know if
19:09<tizef>that work on only on computer or if I can <apt upgrade> on my others computers as well ? sorry that looks maybe little complicated scenario ?
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19:13<tizef>sorry, I mean does <apt-offline> will agree to do the job on the 3 computers ? or does it will work on one... why ? because it require that : "sudo apt-offline set ~/my.sig"
19:13<tizef>so is that .sig file will know that I am using a specifical computer ? or does it look only afetr my system ?
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19:15<tizef>because if then I try on the second computer maybe <apt-offline> will know I have switched to another computer so it will request again a new .sig and then a new downloading of packages...... and then all this become useless right ?
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19:23<sney>tizef: if your 3 computers are on a LAN with each other, you can use apt-cacher-ng on one machine, and then use that machine as the apt mirror for the other two
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19:25<dvs>nah! go for the gusto!
19:27<tizef>no they are not connected to each others... main computer(desktop) is on cable from 4G modem, then two others are on wifi from the 4G modem.....
19:27<tizef>sney
19:32<tizef>sney, and I don't know much about LANing...
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19:43<aloo_shu>if it's the same modem, it's the same LAN, normally
19:46<tizef>yeah that's the same modem for all
19:47<tizef>3 debian stable and one Sid, but Sid is for #debian-next so I am here only talking in the name of debian stable
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19:58<sidirc>Re: packaging: How to set control fields for a custom package so that apt updates inform me of updates to the base package?
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20:01<sidirc>E.g. musl-static 59c-8 is a custom package but upstream has 59c-9. I want apt update to notify me of the upstream updates so I can then diff changes and rebuild musl-static if deemed necessary
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20:02<Cinaeth>Hey all - wondering if anyone can help me figure out how to install debian
20:02*dvs feels a Rube Goldberg situation coming on.
20:02<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, yes, you came to the right place
20:03<sidirc>If I name the musl-static package to musl then it works. But I want to continue to differentiate between musl and the custom musl-static package
20:03<Cinaeth>cool, I have a little experiance with Linux, but it's rasbian on a raspberry pi
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20:04<Cinaeth>All I know right now is I probably don't have the right firmware? I'm not sure
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20:04<Cinaeth>but long story short, I downloaded the CD ISO onto a USB flash drive for Debian Buster - and followed the graphic install prompts
20:04<dvs>!firmware iso
20:04<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
20:05<Cinaeth>it did ask if I wanted to install intel wifi firmware, which I said no to cause it's hard linked
20:05<sidirc>Hard linked?
20:05<Cinaeth>sorry; ethernet cable plugged into the motherboard
20:06<Sqrt{not}>OK, good so far
20:06<Cinaeth>and I did find this page once before, but I had no idea what I needed haha
20:06<Cinaeth>I know what hardware I have in it?
20:06<Sqrt{not}>why do you think you don't have the right firmware? firmware for what device?
20:07<Cinaeth>well, after installing debian, it boots to a black screen and just a blinking white cursor and does nothing else
20:07<Cinaeth>quick google searching sent me into firmware checking, but yeah, since I'm not sure... I found this chat haha
20:08<dvs>Cinaeth: what video card do you have?
20:09<Cinaeth>it's an AMD Radeon RX 580
20:09<dvs>Cinaeth: you need the firmware-amd-graphics package
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20:09<dvs>from nonfree
20:10<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, when you first boot the computer, do you get a menu, or it is immediately a black screen and cursor?
20:10<dvs>you cryptominer!
20:10<aloo_shu>tizef: just found out that http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~bloch/acng/ , the homepage given for apt-cacher-ng, is a dead link , looks like a nice solution, though. I wouldn' think that apt-offline, synaptic's generate download script feature, dpkg-repack, or configuring apt to keep all pkgs it downloads, are any easier hacks to get working by and large. searching apt-cacher-ng brought
20:10<aloo_shu>up man pages ad guides fro me
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20:10<aloo_shu>and*
20:10<Cinaeth>Sqrt{not}: I get a lot of text that flies by and then the black screeen
20:11<Sqrt{not}>at the very very beginning, is there some kind of a brief menu of choices?
20:11<Cinaeth>dvs: I've had this card for almost 2 years, I'm planning to host minecraft and a bunch of other headless servers off this :D
20:11<Cinaeth>Sqrt{not}: yes, I have 3 options
20:12<Cinaeth>debian gnu/linux / advanced options / system setup
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20:13<Sqrt{not}>good, from there you should be able to get a text mode rescue shell
20:13<Cinaeth>ok, so is that the 'c' for a command line?
20:13<Sqrt{not}>you should be able to enter "c" and get a command line, instead of one of those 3 choices
20:13<Sqrt{not}>heh, right
20:14<Cinaeth>I'm not entirely useless haha - jsut more familiar with Windows
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20:14<Cinaeth>ok, I have grub>_ prompt
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20:20<Cinaeth>Sqrt{not}: so... what do? haha
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20:31<Sqrt{not}>sorry, got called away. back now. I think you want to exit from that command shell (ESC) and instead type 'e' to edit the command line
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20:33<Cinaeth>ok, I'm on that edit menu now
20:33<Sqrt{not}>add to the end of the "linux" line this: systemd.unit=multi-user.target
20:35<Sqrt{not}>and then boot with F10, and you should be in a single user text login, where you can add firmware, or look at logs, or otherwise figure out what the new ssytem needs.
20:35<Cinaeth>so.... is it this line; "menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.19.0-17-amd64' --classdebian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os \
20:36<Cinaeth>or is it inside the { } brackets?
20:36<Cinaeth>where it's doing load_video ?
20:37<Sqrt{not}>should be a line that says linux /vmlinuz........ the end of that one
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20:38<Cinaeth>linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-17-amd64 root=uuid ... ro quiet ?
20:38<Sqrt{not}>right
20:40<Cinaeth>we're back to the blinking cursor
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20:40<Cinaeth>I grabbed the firmware-10.10.0-amd64-netinst from the webpage, should I jsut try doign a fresh install with that?
20:41<Sqrt{not}>let's try to get a text console another way. do you get a login prompt from ctrl-alt-F1 or ctrl-alt-F5 ?
20:41<dvs>!firmware iso
20:41<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
20:41<tizef>thank you aloo_shu, so I better should look for apt-cacher-ng, right ?
20:41<Cinaeth> Sqrt{not} yup!
20:41<Sqrt{not}>OK, good , from there let's look for missing firmware. can you log in as root?
20:42<aloo_shu>tizef: I never used it, but it looks like a solution
20:43<aloo_shu>or try to find documentation for apt-offline
20:43<tizef>well so will throw an eye on it !
20:44<Cinaeth>I have no idea why my password isn't working =\
20:44<Sqrt{not}>did you set a root password during install?
20:44<Cinaeth>yes I did
20:44<aloo_shu>http://apt-offline.alioth.debian.org is also dead :( not sure where it moved
20:44<Cinaeth>I have my computer name login:
20:45<tizef>aloo_shu, about apt-offline I had that : https://itsfoss.com/upgrade-or-update-ubuntu-offline-without-internet/
20:45<Cinaeth>I type su root there
20:45<Cinaeth>and then try my root password
20:45<Sqrt{not}>no "su" just put "root" as the user name
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20:45<Cinaeth>hold on i think i know what I need to do..
20:45<Cinaeth>ok, im in as root
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20:46<Sqrt{not}>good! run this command: dmesg | grep firmware
20:46<Cinaeth>ok got it
20:46<Cinaeth>*ERROR* amdgpu requires firmware installed
20:46<Sqrt{not}>does it mention missing firmware, cannot find some firmware file name?
20:47<Cinaeth>and a bunch of iwlwifi firmware
20:47<Cinaeth>blutooth firmweare
20:47<Cinaeth>and something called r8169
20:47<Sqrt{not}>for the amdgpu does it mention a firmware filename?
20:47<PiRATA>sudo apt install firmware-amd-graphics
20:47<PiRATA>should do it
20:48<Cinaeth>is that the drm:amdgpu_pci_probe [amdgpu] ?
20:48<Cinaeth>otherwise it jsut gives me a wiki link to read
20:49<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, the package PiRATA mentioned is probably what you want. but we might have to edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to add non-free
20:50<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, do you have a preferred text editor in linux?
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20:50<Cinaeth>ok so Idid that command, and it says package not available
20:50<Cinaeth>but it is referred to by another package
20:50<Sqrt{not}>that is because you need to add the non-free sources.
20:51<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, do you have a preferred text editor in linux?
20:51<Cinaeth>uh, if notepad++ is linux based - haha - otherwise my raspberry just used Geany
20:51<Cinaeth>I also used nano a bit
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20:51<Sqrt{not}>nano is good. do: nano /etc/apt/sources.list
20:52<Cinaeth>ok, I'm in that
20:53<Sqrt{not}>there should be a line like: deb [some http address] buster main
20:53<Cinaeth>yup, 2 of them actually
20:53<Sqrt{not}>add to the end of that line: contrib non-free
20:53<Cinaeth>well one that's deb
20:53<Cinaeth>and one that's deb-src
20:53<Sqrt{not}>I would suggest adding those words to both lines
20:54<Sqrt{not}>this will enable the package manager to look in those 2 additional sections of the package library
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20:54<Cinaeth>should I do the same for deb and deb0src ( http ) buster/updates main?
20:55<Sqrt{not}>yes
20:55<Cinaeth>and for the ones under "previously known as 'volatile' "
20:56<Sqrt{not}>yes
20:57<Cinaeth>done, back on console
20:57<Sqrt{not}>good, first do: apt update
20:57<Cinaeth>done
20:57<Sqrt{not}>then apt install firmware-amd-graphics
20:57<Cinaeth>progress!
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20:58<dvs>what about firmware-iwlwifi ?
20:58<Cinaeth>it's an intel wifi card Ithnk
20:59<Cinaeth>ok so I got a bunch of W: Possible missing firmware ....
20:59<Sqrt{not}>we probably should address anything missing, while we're here.
20:59<Cinaeth>sure
21:01<Sqrt{not}>so also install firmware-iwlwifi what else is missing?
21:01<PiRATA>run lspci, Cinaeth
21:01<PiRATA>and paste it in https://paste.debian.net/
21:02<Cinaeth> sorry, not sure how to paste something online from a boot shell?
21:02<PiRATA>ahh
21:02<PiRATA>nevermind
21:02<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, what other warning missing firmware did you see?
21:02<aloo_shu>tizef: from what I see there, you could use different .sig files, but share the folder for downloaded packages. like with synaptic's option to generate a dowenload script, the big question for data saving would be what happens if a package is already downloaded.synaptic generates a list of wget commands, if those would contain -nc or --no-clobber (and no incompatible wget option),
21:02<aloo_shu>then existing downloads wouldn't be overwritten. approx, apt-cacher and apt-cacher-ng are looking like they're already taking care of that. approx is promising easier config on the clients. I've not run either, I'm just looking up stuff for you
21:02<PiRATA>was to check what wifi device to have
21:03<Sqrt{not}>I think you mentioned before that it complained missing iwlwifi, right?
21:04<Sqrt{not}>[17:47:08] <Cinaeth> and a bunch of iwlwifi firmware
21:04<Cinaeth>29:00.0 Network controller: Intel corp dual band wireless-ac 3168NGW [stone peak] (rev 10)
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21:04<PiRATA>great
21:04<Cinaeth>Sqrt{not}: Yes, and I did the apt install firmware-iwlwifi and that installed
21:04<PiRATA>iwlwifi sould work
21:04<PiRATA>*should
21:04<Sqrt{not}>OK, anything else it was complaining is missing?
21:05<Cinaeth>without trying again, I'm not sure
21:05<Sqrt{not}>or do you want to try crossing your fingers, and rebooting?
21:05<Cinaeth>lets reboot, see where it sits
21:05<Sqrt{not}>OK!
21:05<Cinaeth>HEY we're at a login screen
21:06<Sqrt{not}>ahhhhh :))
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21:06<Cinaeth>ok, so I can log into root or the user I created from here, right?
21:06<dvs>where's here?
21:06<Sqrt{not}>better to use your user, not good to login to graphic environment as root
21:06<tizef>aloo_shu, by the way here not using synaptic
21:08<Cinaeth>ok, so I'm on the desktop now :D
21:08<PiRATA>cool
21:09<Cinaeth>from here it should be pretty basic, right? Should I run something in terminal to check if I'm missing anything?
21:10<Sqrt{not}>to make sure you have the latest software updates, you could do: apt upgrade
21:10<Cinaeth>also, I plan to remote use this server with my normal windows PC - before I was doing that on my Pi with VNC - is that the best thing?
21:10<PiRATA>VNC or ssh
21:10<PiRATA>do you plan to use x11?
21:11<Cinaeth>not sure what x11 is haha
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21:11<PiRATA>desktop enviroment
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21:11<PiRATA>GUI
21:11<Cinaeth>ah, yeah, probably?
21:11<PiRATA>ssh should work
21:12<PiRATA>just install putty on Windows
21:12<PiRATA>or use VNC
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21:12<Sqrt{not}>I use ssh too, it is the reliable old standard. VNC is OK too, if that is what you are used to.
21:13<Cinaeth>ok so.......... when I do apt update or apt upgrade it wants me to use sudo cause I'm not logged in as root
21:13<Cinaeth>and when I try to sudo the command it's asking for a password - I've tried both
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21:13<PiRATA>sudo !!
21:13<Sqrt{not}>yes, those things need root.
21:13<PiRATA>for running the last command with sudo
21:13<Sqrt{not}>when you run sudo, it wants your user's password, not the root password
21:13<aloo_shu>tizef: also not tested, but if you like the idea of running with a pendrive from machine to machine: mounting a pendrive on /var/cache/apt/archives/ , perhaps copying over the existing contents first. and never using apt clean|autoclean|autoremove on it. very hacky & risky, but if you understand what you're doing..
21:14<Cinaeth> ok so it says I'm not in the sudoers file
21:14<sarnold>that's a lot of work to avoid setting up squid-deb-proxy :)
21:14<PiRATA>run su
21:14<PiRATA>type root's passwd
21:14<tizef>yeah aloo_shu, I like this way !
21:14<Sqrt{not}>!buster su
21:14<dpkg>In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
21:14<PiRATA>then visudo
21:15<Sqrt{not}>no
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21:15<PiRATA>yeah that link is good
21:15<Cinaeth>o.o;;;
21:15<PiRATA>read it
21:15<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, do this command as your user: su -
21:16<Sqrt{not}>enter the root password
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21:16<Sqrt{not}>then as root, do: adduser Cinaeth sudo {or whatever is the username}
21:18<Cinaeth>well, it added me - but it still says i don't have sudoers privs
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21:19<Sqrt{not}>log out, then log in again as your user
21:20<sarnold>did you add yourself to a group? or did you add your userid to the sudoers?
21:20<dvs>sarnold: ^^^
21:20<Cinaeth>ok, relogin fixed it
21:20<Sqrt{not}>bueno
21:21<Cinaeth>annnd all that to be shown no upgrades needed
21:21<PiRATA>usermod -G wheel youruser
21:21<dvs>!wheel
21:21<dpkg>i heard wheel is the traditional name of security group 0 in BSD (from slang for "big wheel" as a powerful person). This group is irrelevant in the default Debian configs but you can use the "sudo" group to give users the ability to run commands as root through sudo; ask me about <sudoers>. Alternatively, look at the pam_wheel module for <PAM> which will only allow su to root from members of the wheel group.
21:23<Cinaeth>according to bash, usermod isn't a command
21:23<jmcnaught>You do not want to add your user to the wheel group anyways, it is not used on Debian.
21:24<PiRATA>try /sbin/usermod
21:24<PiRATA>/sbin/usermod -G wheel youruser
21:24<jmcnaught>NO!
21:24<jmcnaught>PiRATA: wheel is not used on Debian, please stop confusing the users.
21:24<PiRATA>ok
21:25<PiRATA>sudo group?
21:25<Sqrt{not}>he is already added to sudo group
21:25<Sqrt{not}>we did that above
21:25<PiRATA>ok, you guys got this
21:25<PiRATA>:)
21:26<lifesgood>what is the current belief about the use of NOPASSWD in sudo users?
21:26<Sqrt{not}>heh, yes, I think it is OK now. Cinaeth, are you happy?
21:26<dvs>lifesgood: I use it on non servers
21:27<aloo_shu>tizef: a caching proxy for apt might additionally save data on multiple pkg list downloads of the same type
21:27<Cinaeth>so I ran the dmesg | grep firmware again
21:27<Cinaeth>https://paste.debian.net/1204961/
21:28<Sqrt{not}>,file rtl8168h-2.fw
21:28<judd>Search for rtl8168h-2.fw in buster/amd64: firmware-realtek: lib/firmware/rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw
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21:29<lifesgood>I shot the question because there are those users that are SUPER SUPER but you dont want mess root and neither type passwords exaustively you know
21:29<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, apt install firmware-realtek
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21:29<lifesgood>thanks for the advice dvs
21:30<Cinaeth>done Sqrt{not}
21:30<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, sudo apt install firmware-realtek
21:30<Sqrt{not}>OK, should be all set :)
21:30<dvs>lifesgood: np
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21:30<Cinaeth>nice :D
21:31<Cinaeth>ok so... VNC wshould work? I guess the only thing I can't do is easily transfer files between desktops?
21:31<PiRATA>putty supports scp
21:31<Sqrt{not}>you can do that with sftp, which is part of the ssh packages
21:32<PiRATA>yeah that will be easier
21:32<Cinaeth>ok, is that something in additon to vnc? or replacing vnc?
21:32<Sqrt{not}>scp is OK too, more than one way to do it
21:32<Cinaeth>I'm still pretty fresh install right now, haha
21:33<PiRATA>I think there's a SSH/FTP client for Windows
21:33<PiRATA>that allows you to do all that stuff
21:33<tizef>thank you aloo_shu !
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21:34<PiRATA>Cinaeth: check MobaXterm
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21:34<aloo_shu>tizef: learn a little networking :)
21:35<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, apt install openssh-client task-ssh-server
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21:36<Cinaeth>huh, MobaXterm looks nice?
21:37<Cinaeth>I mean I'll tell you what I whana do; Manage my headless servers runnign through terminal such as; Minecraft, Factorio, Terraria
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21:38<Cinaeth>and I wanted ftp cause I mgiht make an image on my windows PC, and whana transfer it to my server for Foundry-VTT
21:38<Sqrt{not}>%vnc
21:38<dselect>Virtual Network Computing (VNC) is a platform-independent graphical desktop sharing system (i.e. provides GUI remote access). Server packages in Debian include <tightvncserver>, <vnc4server> and <x11vnc>; "apt-cache search vnc" will list other servers and clients. Ask me about <vnc setup>, see also <x-not-vnc> for an alternative. http://wiki.debian.org/VNCviewer
21:38<PiRATA>MobaXterm is cool
21:38<PiRATA>used it on my last job
21:38<Sqrt{not}>if you are used to VNC, install one of those VNC things on your new linux box, and enjoy
21:39<PiRATA>you can ssh and send/receive files easily
21:39<Cinaeth>sure, but this isn't really for a job PiRATA - I'm just trying to run a few headless servers, and Iwhana remote login when I need to change something or upload a file
21:39<aloo_shu>tizef: here was an other guide I came across on my search https://www.jamescoyle.net/tag/apt-cacher-ng . commands like hostname can help to know how to address the othe machines on your lan, netstat -patun or similar can help you to look at what's happening, if servers are listening, connecting
21:40<PiRATA>MobaXterm is for Windows
21:40<PiRATA>not server
21:40<Sqrt{not}>putty on windows works to connect to a linux ssh server
21:40<Cinaeth>oh ok
21:40<PiRATA>yeah, putty works flawlessly too
21:40<Sqrt{not}>but also, those VNC options dselect listed above should work, if you are used to VNC
21:40<Cinaeth>serverside would jsut have the ssh stuff installed?
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21:41<PiRATA>yeah
21:41<Sqrt{not}>server side, you just need the task-ssh-server
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21:41<Cinaeth>Sqrt{not}: I've been using VNC, but I'd like to find something that can so what Viewer did + ftp
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21:42<Sqrt{not}>yeah, even if you just use if for the sftp, the ssh server is pretty much the linux standard, as far as i know
21:42<Sqrt{not}>%sftp
21:42<dselect>sftp is a program that provides FTP-like functionality over an ssh2 tunnel and is usually what you should be using instead of ftp://ftp. Linux clients are in the packages openssh-client, filezilla, gftp and many file managers like dolphin, konqueror and nautilus. The server is in the package openssh-server. For Windows clients, ask me about <winscp>, <filezilla>. See also <scp> and <sshfs>.
21:43<Sqrt{not}>%winscp
21:43<dselect>WinSCP is a free and open source GUI <SCP> protocol, <SFTP> and <FTP> client for Microsoft Windows. http://winscp.net/
21:43<Cinaeth>the other thing I am kinda worried about is, this will eventually sit on nginx and have ports open for Foundry - that will have ssl certbot done on it
21:44<lifesgood>my feeling is that all you are obcessed with remote control tools
21:45<Sqrt{not}>it's our primitive alternative to DNA
21:45<Cinaeth>I'd just rather not have 2 keyboards on my desk haha
21:45<Cinaeth>and 2 mice
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21:47<lifesgood>the full control of DNA is still a mistery
21:47<lifesgood>better, a work for centuries ahead
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21:49<Sqrt{not}>Cinaeth, I think you're in pretty good shape. good luck. I'm away for a while.
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21:49<Cinaeth>TY again
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21:56<lifesgood>I only want to thank you all the great work you do
21:56<lifesgood>there is a lot of effort behind the altruistic work of dudes to make Debian secure and fail free
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21:58<lifesgood>I say seriously, if I was a SENA prize winner I worl be a lifetime contributor to Debian work
21:58<lifesgood>I already contributed to wikipedia, but you know, I am jus poor devil
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22:08<lifesgood>I remember a long time to already had the feeling of the bear thst shout, somebody slept my bed, somebody eate my soup
22:09<lifesgood>It was in google
22:09<lifesgood>but to be sincere, google is a puppet of government
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22:13<lifesgood>all became silent... this is scary
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 20 00:00:18 2021