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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-21

---Logopened Wed Jul 21 00:00:19 2021
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00:22<nurupo>what are the appropriate fs paths for a user daemon?
00:22<nurupo>a system-wide daemon is istalled into /usr/local/bin, with data stored in /var/lib/<daemon-name> and config in /etc
00:22<nurupo>a user-local daemon is... installed into ~/.local/bin, with data stored in ~/.local/lib/<daemon-name> and config in ~/.config/<daemon-name>? does that make any sense?
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00:23<raven523>I think ~/.local/share/<name> makes more sense
00:23<raven523>though you should respect the XDG_* environment variables instead if they're set
00:23<nurupo>what would that directory be for?
00:24<raven523>https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
00:24<raven523>the default value for XDG_DATA_HOME is ~/.local/share
00:26<nurupo>oh, right, i meant to say ~/.local/share/<daemon-name> instead of ~/.local/lib/<daemon-name>
00:26<nurupo>thanks for catching that!
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00:34<nurupo>hm, what if the daemon is a python module?
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00:36<nurupo>putting a directory with it into ~/.local/bin (or /usr/local/bin for system-wide) is not nice
00:37<raven523>just put the entry point in ~/.local/bin but put the other modules in ~/.local/share
00:41<nurupo>so ~/.local/share would store both: the daemon app itself and the daemon's runtime data? that's also a bit awekward but i guess it could work if you subdir them, e.g. ~/.local/share/<name>/{app,data}
00:41<raven523>yes
00:43<themill>python modules would normally land in ~/.local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/ (but that makes the public modules which might be inappropriate, but pythonland doesn't worry about public vs private modules much)
00:46<nurupo>that's if you install it as pip --user
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00:49<themill>that's also where sys.path is looking. You will need to do extra things to find private modules popped into other random locations
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00:50<nurupo>i haven't written any setup.py metadata for my app to make it installable, pip won't install it without that. i figured i don't need to make setup.py since it's just a small program i wrote for myself
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00:51<nurupo>i also use an venv to run it
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00:52<nurupo>man, who knew that running a few .py files as a daemon was so complicated :D
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00:59<nurupo>well, it doesn't have to be complicated, i could just put it all together into ~/<daemon-name> without any regard for directory standards and plug that into --user systemd .service file, but i would prefer not to make a mess of $HOME and use proper paths, which is the complicated part
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04:24<lab6>Hello. Is there a Debian policy on what types of works are suitable for uploading to the Debian archive? e.g. does it have to be software? I have a "magazine" which *includes* DFSG-compatible free software as an integral part, but isn't itself software.
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05:21<h3ndr1k>Maybe put it on the Internet Archive?
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06:02<grawity>well, Debian has doc-rfc-* which isn't exactly software
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06:03<Cinaeth>morning, wondering if anyone can help me with my vnc setup
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06:07<grove>!tell Cinaeth abot ask
06:07<grove>!tell Cinaeth about ask
06:09<Cinaeth>well here's my problem. I have x11vnc on my debian install running by just clicking on the application. I have Ultra VNC on my windows machine. When I try to connect ( yeah I've checked the ip ) it says I need a password. I've never set one for x11vnc and it says I can't use an empty password
06:09<Cinaeth>I've tried also using my user password and my root password to no avail
06:09<Cinaeth>I know the connectioin works cause I can ssh into it
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06:16<colins2>Aut-remove has removed some or all of my nvidia drivers and now I cannot boot - Failed to load module. How can set it to boot using default drivers?
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06:18<Cinaeth>ok so now it works for no reason....
06:18<Cinaeth>does debian hold onto logins or something?
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06:54<jochum>colins2: failed to load in X or in init ?
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07:07<andre144k>hello all
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07:08<andre144k>im using debian11.0 - fully patched: is "systemctl isolate multi-user" same like some years before "init 3"?
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07:17<andre144k>i called "systemctl isolate multi-user" and after that "systemctl isolate graphical" - and after new login in kde/plasma i got totaly broken windowmanager: https://i.ibb.co/k0x7N5c/screen.png
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07:17<andre144k>after complete reboot it was working fine again
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07:18<grove>Debian 11 is not released yet, so you might find more users in #debian-next
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07:19<azeem>andre144k: what are you trying to achieve?
07:20<andre144k>only playing on system
07:20<andre144k>learning new things
07:21<andre144k>try to start in init3 and start in init5 again
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07:22<videofix2>any standard tools to test graphics mode? e.g. display palate of colors
07:23-!-maknho__ [~maknho@80.67.179.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:23<videofix2>anything better than firing up gimp; and using xrandr/arandr to list, switch modes, and glxinfo
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07:23<videofix2>how to display nice summar what card/driver/display is being used, other than glxinfo, xrandr, lspci
07:24<videofix2>any tool to play with video timing/modelines, or is only way to script around --newmode --addmode in xrandr + that program to generate timings
07:27<grove>It's been quite a few years (probably 15+) since I've wanted to do that. I have no idea how to do that anymore, but as far as I understand it doesn't make much sense on LCD monitors
07:27<videofix2>btw, another systemd nasty bug (damn people allowingit into debian) - https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/07/20/211230/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed
07:28<bremner>thank you for your deep security analysis
07:28<videofix2>bremner: n/p
07:28<videofix2>bremner: it was quite easy, "memory corruption" and "system panic" are generally not good
07:28<videofix2>grove: other modelines on my LCD seem to fixed a problem with flickering grey colors for me on one computer
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07:32<ansgar>videofix2: Damn people for allowing Linux into Debian which has a similar bug? :D
07:33<videofix2>ansgar: kinda, how ever alternative solutions would require gigantic amounts of work
07:33<videofix2>unlike picking up one of non cancer-like-growing initd-and-everything-systems for init needs
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07:35<ansgar>videofix2: Please go away with your cancer analogies.
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07:36<videofix2>ansgar: ok, you might find this one better, and in visual form https://gfycat.com/pl/sizzlinghappygrouse-explainlikeimfive
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07:37<vv221>I think trolls are supposed to migrate to #debian-offtopic, to leave this one clean for support ;)
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07:40<jm_>I remember using xvidtune a few times way back then
07:40<videofix2>vv221: not every opinion is "trolling"
07:41<videofix2>with just net install, how to boot into some livecd-like X mode, and run gimp?
07:41<videofix2>run graphical install, then apt-get install gimp, does that work?
07:43<vv221>You would need to install at least a graphical server too, either X or Wayland.
07:43<vv221>And for multi-window applications like Gimp, a window manager would help a lot too.
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07:44<vv221>(I think Wayland always comes with a window manager, but this is not the case of X)
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07:46<videofix2>well apt-get would pull that in. does it at all work like that in install-cd environment?
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07:48<videofix2>jm_: oh cool
07:48<vv221>I’m not sure to understand the environment you want to use. Is it about a live system or a "real" install?
07:48<videofix2>vv221: I wondered can this things be tested without doing the actuall instalation, to save ~30 - 60 minutes of time it takes
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07:49<videofix2>good when you have multiple computers and want to pick one where debian seems to "work" well (on free drivers, regarding video card)
07:50<vv221>I’m not sure you can do that from the regular install media, but the live CD/USB would allow such tests.
07:50<Cinaeth>ok, so... I am confused. I'm trying to troubleshoot why one port isn't accepting connections. I've opened the port in Linux - I've port forwarded it on my router - other prots setup this way look open per canyouseeme.org - but this one port does not
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07:51<videofix2>Cinaeth: is something on it? maybe isp blocks it.
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07:51<Cinaeth>videofix2: it's Factorio, and yes it's running
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07:51<videofix2>you picked correctly udp vs tcp?
07:52<videofix2>try from lan from other computer. connecting from same computer to localhost works right?
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07:52<Cinaeth>I can say that the UDP is selected on the router
07:52<Cinaeth>and I'm not sure if local host would work, I'd have to get factorio client working on debian
07:52<Cinaeth>is there an easy way to test the port locally?
07:53<videofix2>Make sure your router does not randomize the source port on packets outbound from 34197. Some routers do this and require additional configuration to prevent it.
07:53<Cinaeth>how do I check that? I've never heard of it
07:53<videofix2>yeah that seems to be strande (stupid) choice of port, it's in the emphereal ports range
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07:53<videofix2>no option in game itself to use some normal port (in range like 1025 - 32000) ?
07:53<Cinaeth>I mean I could change it in the config, restart it and see if that works
07:54<videofix2>try other port, 34197 and such should not be used by servers normally AFAIK
07:55*videofix2 connects to Cinaeth's IP and mines all the fish
07:55<Cinaeth>lol
07:57<videofix2>when device has both AMD and Intel cards, how to pick which one is used?
07:57<videofix2>(no option in bios)
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08:03<vv221>It looks like Prime can be used for Intel+AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PRIME
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08:03<vv221>(sorry, no related doc that I could find on Debian wiki)
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08:04<vv221>Gentoo wiki has something too: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU#Test.2C_if_a_discrete_graphics_card_is_in_use
08:04<grove>Can you run tcptraceroute from somewhere outside your router? That will help determining if the ISP blocks it
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10:09<helpmouse>hi. touchpad mouse doesnt work in instsller, but mouse button in keyboard worksp
10:10<helpmouse>how to fix please? both are built in
10:10<helpmouse>zbook 17g2
10:10<omegatron>plugging in an external mouse is not an option?
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10:11<helpmouse>is but better if it would work. can it work on debian stable without nonfree
10:11<omegatron>(just for the installation)
10:11<helpmouse>installation is working on the other builtin mouse the hat button thing in middle of keyboard
10:12<amacater>Thinkpad?
10:12<amacater>It might need synaptics firmware or similar
10:12<helpmouse>hp zbook
10:13<helpmouse>what packet should.i install to try?
10:13<amacater>OK - maybe the same applies: if you get something installed - what does lspci show for devices?
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10:14<helpmouse>lol
10:14<helpmouse>mouse works now in xfce
10:14<helpmouse>just failed in installer itself. solved
10:15<amacater>This is another reason why I recommend the expert text install :)
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10:16<helpmouse>what to install to run that glxgears test
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10:19<helpmouse>any better performance test?
10:20<bremner>some application you care about
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10:23<helpmouse>no just in general is hw ok
10:23<helpmouse>and drivers
10:24<bremner>glxgears is in mesa-utils. It is a reasonable sanity check, although not useful as a performance measure
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10:33<Sqrt{not}>helpmouse, in a terminal, as root, run `dmesg | grep -i firmware' --- and look for any messages about missing firmware files.
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10:46<Mocramis>Hello, how can i disable the debsign phase in a package building ?
10:47<petn-randall>Mocramis: How are you building which package?
10:47<Mocramis>(I amended an existing package, i don't know why it tries to sign it)
10:48<Mocramis>dpkg-buildpackage
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10:48<Mocramis>and rules uses dh $@
10:49<themill>Mocramis: -uc -us
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10:54<Mocramis>themill: Thanks, but can i activate it from the source ? I don't rellay get why dh dpkg-buildpackage tries to sign this one ... it does not seems to be the case with my other custom packages
10:54<Mocramis>im mean from the rules *
10:54<themill>this is solely in the control the builder
10:54<themill>the package has nothing to do with it
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11:00<Mocramis>well some packages i buid the same way don't event attempt this step :/
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11:03<themill>the only influence the package has over this is that dpkg-buildpackage skips signing if the package has UNRELEASED in the changelog.
11:03<themill>(see step 11 of dpkg-buildpackage(1))
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11:07<Mocramis>themill: That mus be it, thanks!
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11:09<tmp5>use bios boot uefi with cms or without?
11:11<tmp5>ooor any idea why debian jdd does not boot in otjer compiter
11:13<tmp5>disk is gpt.bios doesnt see ot can boot from this device. grub is in sda
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11:15<tmp5>lol somehow gpt was not set as bootable
11:16<Sqrt{not}>all fixed now? good job
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11:26<vv221>Mocramis, if like me you tend to forget `-us -uc`, you can use `--no-sign` instead that I find easier to remember.
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11:34<Mocramis>vv221: Thanks, i was more puzzled by the differing behaviour (which was due to a difference in the changelog)
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12:56<anon8947>Debian's standard kernels are built with MEMTEST=Y, right?
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12:57<bremner>the one I checked was
12:57<sney>anon8947: yes on buster and bullseye, here
12:57<bremner>you can look in /boot/config-*
12:57<anon8947>Alright, good, means I have the right thing.
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13:06<anon8947>Thanks
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13:41<grove>I once found (but I seem to have lost it) some arguments to `/sbin/zpool status` that would make it augment each line (corrresponding to a disk) with some practical info (stuff like vendor/model/...) that is useful when I have to physically identify the disk. Does anybody know those arguments?
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13:49<extraa2>Hello
13:49<grove>(I can see from it that wwn-0x5000cca254e9b1a4 has problems, but there are 6 disks on that controller. (`hdparm -I` on that id tells me it's a WD 8TB, and there's only one of those, so I guess I know what I need, but I still would like to the easier way (I remember)
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15:07<Marx82>for some reason I have my root home folder populated with screenshots (based on the file name I suppose they are generated by "scrot"). Is there a way to understand if my system is infected or just a key combination can cause it?
15:08<jmcnaught>Marx82: do you mean /root/ or /home/Marx82/ ?
15:08<Marx82>the second one
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15:09<sarnold>do you get a new one if you hit the print screen key?
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15:12<Marx82>ops, I found the stupid problem. Actually my print key on my laptop is above the backspace so I probably press it by mistake from time to time.....I thought the function key was required to use that button. Doh!!!
15:12<Marx82>:)
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15:14<free2>You could remap it
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15:16<g00so>what is the best way to check internet connection and restart if network is down?
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15:16<vv221>Marx82, I had the same issue when I got a new PC ;)
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15:17<Marx82>free2: yeah, it is not even worth the effort. I was concerned because every screenshot was taken while I was typing....so I thought something was going on.
15:17<jmcnaught>g00so: you could use network-manager which will normally reconnect you automatically if it loses a connection.
15:18<Marx82>g00so: ifdown "interfacename" ifup "interfacename"
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15:18<Marx82>g00so: they are two separate commands, if you want to know your interface name you should use ifconfig
15:18<g00so>Marx82, I need a script then. This is VPS
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15:19<Marx82>can you ping your IP address?
15:19<g00so>jmcnaught, NM w/o GUI?
15:19<jmcnaught>g00so: network-manager has nmcli command and nmtui ncurses interface
15:19<Marx82>assuming you have one
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15:20<jmcnaught>g00so: have you determined why you are losing network connections?
15:21<jhutchins>jmcnaught: I thought he said it was a VPS.
15:21<g00so>I have possibility to restart it manually, but I'm asking about a solution to do that automatically
15:21<g00so>jhutchins, yes it is, but I can ask for restarting
15:22<jmcnaught>jhutchins: and?
15:22<jhutchins>jmcnaught: Isn't that a sufficient explanation?
15:22<jmcnaught>For why it is losing network connectivity?
15:22<g00so>jmcnaught, this not a issue
15:22<g00so>jmcnaught, this is not a issue
15:23<jhutchins>g00so: You should be able to come up with a "while ping <external addres> else restart. I'd have to work out the actual syntax through trial and error, which I will leave to you.
15:23<g00so>jhutchins, wow, great, thank you
15:23<jhutchins>g00so: You did not respond to the suggstion of using Networ Manager, which is probably the best solution.
15:23<Marx82>g00so: are you able to create a script that restart the interface when ping to 8.8.8.8 (or your default gateway) fails?
15:24<jmcnaught>Probably finding out why it is failing would be a good first step.
15:24<g00so>jmcnaught, they restart for instance router
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15:26<sarnold>g00so: why is your vps losing internet often enough to require rebooting to fix it?
15:27<sarnold>g00so: these things are usually rock solid; consider finding a different ISP
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15:27<jhutchins>sarnold: That's what VPSs do.
15:27<sarnold>g00so: (sure, every now and then some inconsiderate excavator will chew through a meaty bundle of fibre, but rebooting won't help)
15:27<g00so>sarnold, no, very rare, but I want to prepare my setup to deal with it
15:28<Marx82>g00so: did you read my comment above?
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15:29<g00so>Marx82, yes I'm able, but waiting for the jhutchins
15:29<g00so>proposal
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15:31<jhutchins>g00so: Um, I'm not going any further than that. I'd have to work just as hard as you to get the "while" syntax right, and you might as well make the mistakes and learn the lessons.
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15:32<g00so>jhutchins, ok, no problem. Thanks
15:32<jhutchins>g00so: It's not hard, you just need to get the "while" syntax off the web, and figure out which steps are needed for the restart.
15:32<Marx82>to be honest I agree with them. A restart is pointless in most of the cases.
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15:33<Marx82>perhaps is better to monitor the packetloss and open a ticket to your provider
15:33<jhutchins>Marx82: If the problem is at the localhost, restart shold clear it, If it's upstream, clearing/resetting the connection might help.
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15:33<g00so>jhutchins, exactly
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15:34<jhutchins>g00so: Marx82 tangentally makes a good point: You might put some sort of logging in your restart segment so you can report it to the provider.
15:34<jhutchins>Marx82: You know how responsive providers are to this kind of problem.
15:34<g00so>jhutchins, I'll do that
15:36<jmcnaught>Setting up a while loop to constant ping an external address and restart networking if it fails seems like technical debt that could mess you up in the future. Definitely document it well if you go this route.
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15:37<Marx82>g00so: you could segment the path with a local ping to your interfface, default gateway, and something on the internet.
15:37<jmcnaught>What if the external address is down and not your connection? Will it constant restart networking?
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15:38<Marx82>jmcnaught: in that case you could point to multiple addresses
15:39<Marx82>like google DNSs
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15:39<jmcnaught>Using software that already solves this problem, like network-manager, might be better and easier than implementing your own solution.
15:39<jmcnaught>But really if your VPS is losing networking contact your ISP or find a good one.
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15:40<g00so>thank you for your help, I appreciate
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16:15<otisolsen70>I have two ethernet connections configured in /etc/network/interfaces that I want to migrate to NetworkManager as system-connections. How do I do this? One is simply "auto eth0; iface eth0 dhcp" the other is an eth0:0 alias with a static network config.
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16:19<jhutchins>jmcnaught: Clearly a secondary ping test could be part of the failure response.
16:19<jhutchins>jmcnaught: I agree that esisting solutions like NM are preferable, but sometimes it's fun to build your own mousetrap.
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16:23<pi________>I cant start discord
16:23<pi________>It cant open libx11-xcb.so.1
16:23<pi________>help?
16:24<sney>,file libx11-xcb.so.1
16:24<judd>Search for libx11-xcb.so.1 in buster/amd64: libx11-xcb1: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libX11-xcb.so.1
16:24<sney>install that package ^
16:24-!-Dresden [~Dresden@241.105.45.217.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:24<pi________>i have#
16:25<pi________>just checked, its already installed
16:25<sney>ok, more details time: what debian version is this? how did you install discord? what else have you tried? did it work previously and break, or is this a new install? etc we can't see your screen, so be precise
16:26<pi________>This is a new install of Debian 10 (Raspberry Pi OS) and I downloaded the deb from the website. It installed fine but won't run. I am on LXDE
16:27<sney>I don't think there's a discord package for armhf/arm64
16:28<sney>anyway,
16:28<sney>!raspbian
16:28<dpkg>Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.libera.chat for support. https://www.raspbian.org/
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16:28<pi________>its on a x86_64 PC
16:29<sney>then why is your name "pi" and why did you say raspberry pi OS
16:29<pi________>Raspberry Pi desktop
16:29<jhutchins>I didn't realise they actually had discord working for linux. Last I knew, it barely worked on Windows.
16:29<pi________>Raspberry Pi OS for x86 devices
16:30<sney>jhutchins: it's an electron app. I avoid it whenever possible but it does work here on bullseye
16:30<pi________>jhutchins: it worked on ubuntu
16:30<sney>single 70MB deb, joy
16:32<pi________>i installed the curl and dev packages for libx11-xcb
16:32<sney>wow, that actually does exist. regardless, pi________: raspberry pi OS is a modified debian, and we can't know what they changed, so we can't offer you accurate support. discord 0.0.15 works fine on debian, I just checked it here.
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16:33<pi________>it uses the Debian 10 repos as a base
16:33<sney>go to #raspberrypi on libera. if you're in hexchat, you can right click this and choose connect, ircs://irc.libera.chat/raspberrypi
16:33<pi________>thanks
16:33<sney>many things use the buster repos, but whenever someone forks debian for their own derivative, they take responsibility for supporting their users.
16:34<pi________>ok
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16:47<demo>my system wont boot because my disc is messed up
16:48<demo>what can i do to correct the disc errors?
16:48<mason>demo: Too ambiguous. From what you're saying, your disk might be physically damaged, you might have bad data written to the partition table, you might have bad config.
16:49<mason>More detail about why you say your disk has errors would help.
16:49<demo>it was during a hard disc recording session
16:49<demo>it just crashes everything IF it will even boot, which now it wonr
16:50<demo>i can boot from a live USB but when i try and mount either volume. the system hangs
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16:52<mason>demo: That could still indicate any number of issues. A screenshot or photo of the error messages emitted would be useful.
16:53<demo>what can i do in a shell that could output some report you could look at?
16:53<sussudio>smartctl --test=short /dev/sdX
16:53<mason>dmesg | tail might be useful if you've tried and failed to access one of your disks from a live CD, as an example
16:53<sney>dmesg will probably have something useful from that live environment regardless, as the kernel tries to initiate the disk
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16:56<demo>where is the output of smartctrl ?
16:56<sney>smartctl -a will show the results of the test
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16:59<demo>https://pastebin.com/eXqfqFL4
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17:00<demo>https://pastebin.com/4sn3KAz5
17:00<sney>no SMART errors but that doesn't necessarily mean the disk is ok, it can't detect everything
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17:00<sney>'dmesg |grep sda' might have something interesting
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17:02<demo>https://pastebin.com/GF7Sx4pj
17:02<sarnold>ew
17:02<sarnold>pastebin the whole dmesg?
17:02<demo>that was it
17:03<sney>no, without any tail or grep
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17:03<demo>thing is off the page
17:04<sney>!termbin
17:04<dpkg>you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file
17:04<demo>https://pastebin.com/PHAe4YTb
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17:05<sarnold>drat :(
17:05<dvs>foiled again!
17:05<sarnold>those meddling kids..
17:05<demo>is it bad Doc?
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17:06<sarnold>demo: normally the *first* such error message is the most useful, and you've had so many of these errors that they've pushed the first one out of the buffer entirely :(
17:06<sney>something is definitely blowing up there, but it'd be better to see it from the beginning
17:06<sarnold>did journalctl or syslog capture all of it?
17:07<demo>where are those?
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17:08<free2>You can call journalctl command, and some logs are in /var/log
17:11<demo>this is everything in /var/log/syslog
17:11<demo>https://pastebin.com/LL843SYP
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17:14<sarnold>Jul 21 17:08:12 mx1 kernel: [ 1416.096780] check_preemption_disabled: 995 callbacks suppressed
17:15<sarnold>hah, no kidding poor little kernel, no kidding :)
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17:15<sarnold>demo: my guess is you'll need to ask your kernel vendor for help :(
17:15<otisolsen70>How do I configure a network interface alias like eth0:0 with NetworkManager?
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17:16<sarnold>you should just add new IPs to your interfaces, the aliases haven't been necessary for something like twenty years
17:16<otisolsen70>sarnold, so how do I do it?
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17:17<otisolsen70>sarnold, with networkmanager.
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17:17<otisolsen70>sarnold, the documentation in /usr/share/doc does not mention this. Nor does https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager
17:18<sarnold>otisolsen70: hit the edit connection thingy, select the interface you're using, ipv4 settings, etc
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17:18<otisolsen70>sarnold, I do not have X. This is CLI only. I guess I should edit some config file under system-connections.
17:19<demo>so, what does that mean?
17:19<sarnold>otisolsen70: ah :) nmcli is very handy for that, but I mostly use it just for bringing interfaces and vpns up and down ;(
17:19<demo>this was a realtime audio kernel
17:19<otisolsen70>sarnold, nmcli does only manipulate runtime state, right? It does not seem to edit config.
17:19<sarnold>otisolsen70: dang :(
17:20<otisolsen70>I find NM very poorly documented. Is it just me who looks the wrong places?
17:21<sarnold>otisolsen70: hmm, are you sure? nmcli's got a 'modify' subcommand
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17:21<sarnold>otisolsen70: you're probably right, I never feel like I'm holding it the right way round, heh
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17:22<otisolsen70>sarnold, "man 5 nm-settings" maybe this is what I need?
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17:23<demo>so there is no disc repair app that could diagnose this?
17:23<sarnold>otisolsen70: I hope it's enough anyway :) hehe
17:23<demo>because the results are the same for both the Xubuntu and the MXlinux installs on this laptop
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17:25<videofix2>demo: "BUG: using smp_processor_id() in preemptible [00000000] code: loop0/1203" looks serious. try using this disk in other computer? try other disk in this computer? boot some livecd and try using disk from it?
17:25<jmcnaught>otisolsen70: I was just about to suggest that man page, as it is referenced by nmcli(1) section on "nmcli connection modify …" also maybe example 11 from this page will help: https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/nmcli-examples.html
17:26<demo>i am using this live USB disc now
17:27<otisolsen70>jmcnaught, thanks!
17:27<jmcnaught>otisolsen70: oh apparently that page I linked is also nmcli-examples(7)
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17:35<otisolsen70>jmcnaught, thanks
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17:37<plaur>demo: RT kernels have had such issues in the past. if using a regular kernel is not an option, you could try to compile the latest RT kernel yourself and see if the problem is gone, or report a bug with the upstream devs
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17:44<demo>thanks
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18:48<jen83_>is there a specific chan to go to for geting help with lost pasword for current user on a debian.
18:49<jochum>jen83_: i thought this is the right one
18:49<jochum>jen83_: you need a livecd mount your system and set the password
18:49<jochum>LiveUSB
18:49<jen83_>oh. i'm lost.
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18:50<jochum>I can navigate you through that, if you'd like
18:50<jen83_>no cd . optic driver. i have to use the card disc,
18:50<Sqrt{not}>does it have USB?
18:50<jen83_>well thats great. but i have the . yes.
18:50<jochum>jen83_: I realy love this tool to make USB's https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html
18:51-!-jzz [~jzz@0002ba56.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:51<jen83_>i haven't straighten all my junk out yet.
18:51<jen83_>just moved.
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18:51<jen83_>thanks jochum let me look. at leas i can find my way back.
18:51<jen83_>hm its not linking. i'll type it out.
18:52<Sqrt{not}>what kind of machine is the debian installed on? amd64?
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18:52<jen83_>its apurism and its all mesed up.
18:52<jen83_>3 years old.
18:53<Sqrt{not}>jen83, does any user have working password?
18:53<jen83_>I'm have
18:53<jen83_>no
18:53<Sqrt{not}>what is apurism?
18:53<jen83_>just my encrypt for the lvm . to start. and them
18:53<jochum>thats good question's by Sqrt{not}
18:53<jen83_>this needs a new keyboard.
18:54<jen83_>its a purism
18:54<amacater>Is it running PureOS or Debian
18:54<jochum>Following the RSS of PureOS for a long tiem
18:54<jen83_>just google it. its for security shit. like i'm gonna really tell junk.
18:54<jochum>Puri.sm
18:54<jen83_>yes
18:54<jen83_> amacater
18:54<jen83_>thats it.
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18:55<jen83_>and i ordered a new key. the head tech guy . i mixed him up with some guy in the philaphines. so he went loco. so now i'm scared of him.
18:55<jochum>hahaha
18:55<jen83_>anyway just a mix up. who cares.
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18:56<jochum>"he went loco" :) :)
18:56<hime>i was reading cve and this struck me as odd: "The Qualys Research Labs discovered a size_t-to-int conversion vulnerability in the Linux kernel's filesystem layer. An unprivileged local attacker able to create, mount, and then delete a deep directory structure whose total path length exceeds 1GB". what is odd, is that i thought total pathname length was actually hardcoded in teh kernel.
18:56<amacater>Strictly - this is a Debian list for support of Debian stable.
18:56<jen83_>just he does. just one of those real touchy kind. its ok. i stil
18:56<amacater>!purism
18:56-!-Guest1682 [~nyov@nyov.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:56<amacater>Oh, no dpkg message for not supporting Purism
18:56-!-hlauer [~hlauer@ip5f596799.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57<jen83_>?
18:57<jen83_>i need to go look at the link jochum put up.
18:57<amacater>!Ubuntu
18:57<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on irc.libera.chat instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
18:57<Sqrt{not}>jen83_, this IRC channel is for debian linux. purism is something else
18:57*jen83_ will never do ubuntu
18:57<jen83_>no thats just the machine name.
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18:57<amacater>jen83: I was kind of expecting something for PureOS to say we didn't support it - in the same spirit as the Ubuntu message I just called up
18:57<jen83_>thats al
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18:58<jen83_>all. i'm sure my warranty is up. maybe i';l just put linux mint on. then ican' rip my cd. dvd.and have a server.
18:59<Sqrt{not}>hime, I think that CVE is fixed in most versions of debian
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18:59<hime>Sqrt{not}: what i find strange is that i thoguht the total pathname limit was already musch smaller
18:59<jochum>Why people are so strict on not supporting forks?
18:59<hime>jochum: it's already pretty complex supporting one os
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18:59<amacater>I'm not quite sure how PureOS may choose to lock their OS: we can certainly help you install a Debian on any machine
18:59<Sqrt{not}>jochum, because we have NO IDEA what is in that one
19:00<jen83_>is there a new cve out? for debian buster. dam thats what happens when you move. you lose everything. ($h*)
19:00<jochum>jen83_: yeah some kind of "normal" user to root
19:00<sney>whenever someone forks debian and makes their own distro, they also take responsibility for supporting their users. they must have changed *something*, we can't accurately predict what it is, so it'd be irresponsible for us to claim expertise
19:00<sarnold>hime: the total lengths haven't been limited; PATH_MAX was only ever about the largest path that could be used in a given systemcall -- so mkdir(long thing) ; cd (long thing) ; repeat ...
19:01<amacater>There's a long tail of support - we can't support every possible Debian derivative that has done something that Debian doesn't do. We may have some clues, but realisticly it's infeasible
19:01<jen83_>well I was told that i can put any distro on this. thats what he wrote in the hate mail he sent me.
19:01<Sqrt{not}>There is a #purism channel on irc.libera.chat with people in it --- you could ask there
19:01<jen83_>thanks sney
19:01<hime>sarnold: interesting
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19:02<jen83_>hm. yea . my daughter lives in germany. and so does he. about 15 miles apart.
19:02<jen83_>no
19:02<sney>and yes there's a "new cve" regarding the linux kernel, the updated package was pushed yesterday, so if you're keeping up to date then you're already protected
19:02<sarnold>hime: I've long since wondered what trouble you could make by making ridiculously long paths, but never expected "oh we killed systemd" or "we got ring0 execution" as possible outcomes :)
19:02<jen83_>i'm just going to install it. and not mess with stuff. for awhile. . maybe. you know.
19:03<Sqrt{not}>jen83_, you could install debian too, maybe, if you have any clue what kind of machine is inside that thing
19:03<jochum>jen83_: hmm he's German and you thought hes Philipinian ? :)
19:03<jen83_>the guy even limits my ability to upgrade. ($4$) swearing
19:03<hime>being hated by head tech guy can be an issue
19:03<jen83_>they talk funy
19:03<jen83_>funny
19:03<jochum>I'm nearby - Austria
19:03<sarnold>australia? :)
19:04<sney>no kangaroos in austria
19:04<jen83_>he has one of those voices that screeches when he loses it. i'm never going to talk to him again. ( no f. waY)
19:04<amacater>What time is the hippo racing
19:04*jochum is still laughing - he went loco.
19:04<hime>sarnold: accidentally i can imagine creating a twice long path or so, but not ridiculously long
19:06<hime>but yeah me neither
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19:07<jen83_>jochum. I HAVE the page. eah. Yeah. and I need to order akeyboard. if i lose my temper i may throw this piece of junk.
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19:07<jochum>jen83_: it will format an usb, afterwards you will be able to copy any iso on it and boot it
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19:07<jochum>No matter what OS
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19:15<jenn83>i lost everything.
19:15<jenn83>jeeeez
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19:16<amacater>jen83: What did you do?
19:17<Sqrt{not}>jochum, have you tested debian .iso images on that ventoy USB writer? Most third party USB tools mangle the debian USB images to the point that they don't work correctly.
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19:18<jochum>Sqrt{not}: it works great
19:19<jochum>Sqrt{not}: its not a "usb tool" its a modified grub to boot .iso
19:19<jochum>usb writer
19:20<jochum>Been booting all kind of OS including M$ stuff with it
19:20<Sqrt{not}>jochum, have you actually tested it with a debian image?
19:20<jochum>yes
19:21<jenn83>amacater. with this junk machine? i wreced i. wrecked it.
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19:23<jenn83>are you all typing about the iso image Debian. what about Susie . leap . can i rip dvd and make music server. i have no reason to keep ths this as ad a Debian machine. and i realy really ned NEED to order a keyboard NOW.
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19:24<jenn83>hm the delay on the keys are ra. rae really long.
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19:25<elliot1>hi I submitted a bug earlier today and I was wondering if it came in or not
19:25<amacater>If you have a USB port free - plug in any external keyboard - it'll work
19:25<amacater>!SUSE
19:25<dpkg>SUSE Linux is a brand of products available as <opensuse> and SUSE Linux Enterprise. http://www.suse.com/ #suse on irc.libera.chat.
19:25<sney>elliot1: it usually gets processed within a few minutes up to an hour, though even if you didn't get the confirmation email you can check bugs.debian.org/packagename to see if it's up
19:26<amacater>so definitely off topic here.
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19:27<elliot1>sney: thanks, I've checked and it does not seem to be there, I did it via email instead of reportbug
19:27<sney>elliot1: that shouldn't make a difference, I've sent them both ways. you sent it to submit@bugs.debian.org and included all the necessary fields?
19:28<jenn83>ok. thanks amacater. brb
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19:29<elliot1>sney: yep, I have the package version, name, severity and tags in the pseudo-headers
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19:30<elliot1>sney: also the justification
19:30<sney>elliot1: hmm, how long ago is earlier today?
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19:31<elliot1>sney: I'd say about eight hours ago :D, I can put it in a pastebin if there is something I missed
19:31<sney>that's definitely on the long side. I wonder if it got snagged by some spam filter.
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19:32<elliot1>that's what I was thinking
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19:32<lifesgood>yesterday I was burning to help debian. I was reading the official site. but I feel I am too much ordinary to help anything.
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19:34<jenn83>`-NEDeed TO rebot reboot this for the external keyboard. brb
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19:35<elliot1>sney: here's the full text https://paste.debian.net/1205175, I did use reportbug as a base template for it, but I don't think that would be a problem
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19:36<amacater>lifesgood: Run Debian, tell us how well it works or not. Write blogs / write bug reports. If you are a native speaker of a language other than English - translate? Help police spam from mailing lists?
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19:37<amacater>Most of us started out as users - even the best of us are skilled users who've learnt things :)
19:37<sney>elliot1: looks like a bug report to me, give it a full 24 hours and if it still doesn't show up then maybe re-submit. what email provider are you sending from? some of them get throttled
19:38<elliot1>sney: okay, I'm using mailo.com
19:38<Sqrt{not}>!purism
19:38<dpkg>purism, or librem, is a security and privacy oriented linux product, based somewhat on debian. https://puri.sm/faq/ #purism on irc.libera.chat
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19:39<sney>hm, not aware of that as a repeat offender. hopefully it's just taking the long route around
19:39<elliot1>sney: okay, I'll report it again tomorrow, maybe by re-writing it just in case. Thanks a lot
19:40<sney>np
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19:42<jenn83>.
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19:55<jenn83>sney - i just scrolled. thanks for the cve info.
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20:11<kai>hi
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20:11<Guest1692>hi
20:12<sney>hi
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20:22<Guest1692>hi
20:22<alex11>!ask
20:22<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
20:22<Guest1692>wsg
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20:23<alex11>please don't pm me
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20:25<jenn83>the copy and paste function doesn't work in hex
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20:26<jenn83>i 'll check the settings. it should be in that. hmmmm
20:27<Guest1692>hi
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21:04<orma>does apt purge remove dependencies of a package that is to be purged even if other packages need it?
21:05<orma>I mean even if other packages need some or all of the dependencies
21:05<sney>no, packages that are a dependency of something installed on your system will not be removed by anything automatic
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21:05<sney>or if they are marked for removal, you'll get one of those giant scary apt previews that says it's going to remove your whole desktop, e.g.
21:06<sarnold>you can get a dry-run of it by adding -s: apt purge -s x11-common
21:06<orma>yes, I got that. Thanks god I had a snapshot of the system
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21:08<bremner>I mean, just don't agree?
21:08<orma>what does dry run mean or do? how is it beter?
21:08<bremner>of course if you pass --yes, you may be sad. So don't do that.
21:08<sney>it'll still only simulate, even if apt wouldn't normally confirm
21:09<sney>but everyone learns to actually look at the list of what apt says it's going to do. some learn it the hard way. so it goes
21:09<sarnold>orma: a lot of tools that do things offer a "dry-run" option that doesn't do anything, it just prints out what operations it would take if you ran it "for real"
21:10<orma>I didn't know that. That is indeed very useful! Thank you, I didn't know of that option
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21:19<orma>I want to remove bluetooth from my system. I first got a list of bluetooth packages with "apt list --installed | grep bluetooth". I found two packages "bluetooth" and "libbluetooth3". purging bluetooth was ok. purging libbluetooth3 removes important packages. So I understand that libbluetooth3 is essential to the system. But my question is, is removing the package "bluetooth" sufficient to remove bluetooth from my system?
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21:20<sney>if you want to make sure bluetooth never works on your system, blacklist the driver so it can't load
21:21<sney>then it doesn't matter what utilities or libraries are on disk
21:21<orma>thank you
21:21<sussudio>how is libbluetooth "essential"? is this another systemd parasitic thing?
21:21<sney>it's probably brought in by network-manager or something like that
21:22<orma>yes, exactly
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21:22<sney>anyway, just put a line like 'blacklist bluetooth' in a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/, run update-initramfs -u, and reboot. no more bluetooth.
21:23<orma>thank you very much
21:24<sney>np
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21:24<sarvad>https://brave.com/linux/ Instruction mention to include "stable" to the sources.list.d But if I am installing it on bullseye should I still use stable or change it to bullseye? Instructions at the top mentions they are applicable to Debain 9+. Confusing.
21:25<sney>sarvad: 3rd party repos have their own naming conventions, so if their site says to use stable, use stable.
21:25<sarvad>Ofcourse, if I do it after July 30th, it's moot point whether I use stable or bullseye.
21:25<dvs>!wwbr
21:25<dpkg>Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready." Release day we're working to currently - as discussed in various mailing lists is August 14th 2021. There's a hard freeze from July 17th with only the most urgent security fixes after that date. The main CD builder died - all disks failed at once, so the current target is August 14th, or even later.
21:25<sarvad>sney : but mixing repos is frowned upon in Debian world. So I am worried if I will be messing up something by doing that?
21:26<sarvad>oh..it moved to Aug 14th?? Wth? here I am thinking it's July 30th!
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21:26<dvs>Surprise!
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21:27<sney>sarvad: again, it's a 3rd party repo, they may not even have a "bullseye" or "testing" etc on their mirrors. the advice against mixing debian distros is about mixing whole releases that have conflicting versions of the same stuff
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21:28<sarnold>which might be a valid concern for a browser, I wouldn't be surprised if it uses a *bunch* of apis from packages in the main repos
21:28<sarnold>hopefully it'll just use stable-ish apis, but no guarantees
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21:29<sney>yeah, or it's a massive static binary
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21:36<sarvad>Ok, thanks guys. I'll give "bullseye" a try. If it doesn't work, I'll use stable. Good night.
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21:40<jochum>dvs: "The main CD builder died" - like a pressing machine?
21:40<sney>the system that generates the installer images
21:40<dvs>??? That wasn't me
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21:41<sney>dvs: you triggered the bot, dawg.
21:41<dvs>Ok I see. But I didn't create that factoid
21:42<sney>amacater has some inside knowledge and suggested it was a disk firmware bug. oopsie daisy gotta rebuild the whole service
21:43<dvs>Ouch! Because of a firmware bug all data was lost?? Oopsie!
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21:44<sarnold>raid cards are famous for doing that
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21:44<sney>indeed
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21:45<sney>my friend who is a sysadmin at a major dc company says he's always secretly glad when something like that happens, because now they get to build it right
21:45<dvs>Oh man. I ain't ever buying a RAID card.
21:46<sney>certainly not in 2021, when zfs is way better in every possible way (bar windows compatibility, anyway)
21:46<jochum>But ZFS isn't part of Debian, right? (I thought licensing issues)
21:47<sney>well, it's in contrib
21:47<sney>plenty accessible for your data volume needs
21:47<jochum>They guys at Proxmox use systemd-bootd for zfs
21:48<jochum>sney: "data volume" != "boot volume", right?
21:48<sney>indeed, and grub has native zfs support too, it's just the license thing
21:48<sney>right. for a purpose built fileserver you barely need anything for /
21:48<jochum>UEFI = system-bootd @ proxmox, BIOS = Grub2
21:49<sney>I guess my proxmox machine is bios, I never remember. but grub support has been there for a long time, it's used for illumos stuff too
21:50<jochum>mine is biso
21:50<jochum>i mean UEFI
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21:56<onelegend>I don't ever use RAID cards
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21:57<onelegend>sarnold: you reckon that they aren't even needed anymore?
21:57<onelegend>CPUs should be plenty powerful anyways
21:57<onelegend>software defined storage is the buzz thesedays
21:57<lifesgood>dvs, I already bought a raid cdedicated controller in the past. Was a cool moment of learning new things. but today I wont do the same.
21:57<sarnold>onelegend: that's my guess, but I'm a zfs fanboi :)
21:58<jochum>same here
21:58<jochum>not sure about dedicated Database machines though
21:58<sney>the last mixed environment I adminned had (1) raid card in production, for the windows server. but I still didn't trust it with anything truly important.
21:58<sney>well, any truly important data. I *guess* the domain controller counts as important
21:59<onelegend>sarnold: ZFS ftw
21:59<onelegend>I love how ZFS uses stream ciphers for the encryption as well
21:59<lifesgood>raid dedicated controller has 8 wires for hd, and an specific BIOS to configure the raid mode
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22:00<jochum>lifesgood: there are controllers for SATA without RAID too, i have one in my homeserver. But these days I would buy NVMe only at corp
22:00<dvs>lifesgood: I would much, much keep on using softraid
22:00<lifesgood>today im in love with ssd M2
22:01<lifesgood>ok ok i did poor choices in the past
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22:02<jochum>lifesgood: think most people used RAID controllers in the past
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22:02<dvs>All but one of my m.2 slots are filled.
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22:05<lifesgood>I saw in a study elsewhere
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22:06<lifesgood>the cpus are too much fas so the botleneck of performance is storage, a few times ago HD
22:06<lifesgood>fast ram, fast cpu
22:07<jochum>For my Workload CPU is the bottleneck
22:07<lifesgood>the bottleneck is storage
22:07<dvs>storage is almost always the bottleneck
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22:08<lifesgood>of course I shot an oppinion from those guys that run performance bechmarks with dedicated software
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22:12<lifesgood>ive been around the news you know
22:14<lifesgood>the 2 trends now are, 1 cpus more economic energetically, and 2, quantum computation
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22:17<lifesgood>for decades we are going to be happy with energetic efficient cpus
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22:17<lifesgood>i mean, low performance, of course
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22:18<jochum>TDP up to 280 Watt
22:19<dvs>!!!
22:19<dpkg>I'm not your csh prompt!
22:19<lifesgood>and the process of fabrication of quantum computers will keep them in big rich institutions for many many decades
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22:22<lifesgood>on the other side, warables will become ubicuous, smart watches, IoT etc
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22:25<lifesgood>the work 'smart' is already a commonplace in stuff there
22:25<lifesgood>*word
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22:28<jhutchins>A reminder that this channel is supposed to be Debian technical support, not theory or philosophy. Perhaps #debian-offtopic?
22:29<sussudio>jhutchins: yeah, that suggestion worked the first few times with lifesgood...
22:30<lifesgood>jhutchins, is there any chance of we see debian mobile in the future?
22:30<jhutchins>lifesgood: Again, not on topic for this channel.
22:30<lifesgood>sorry
22:30<jhutchins>lifesgood: Perfectly valid on #debian-offtopic.
22:32<jhutchins>: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
22:32<jhutchins>That's what this channel is supposed to be.
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23:05<onelegend>YOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO
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23:13<Blendie>m00
23:13<sussudio>that's not a question, Blendie.
23:14<Blendie>what kind of operatiom
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23:31<hime>having trouble booting. on previos occasions, was able to get grub on removable drive, set automatic boot sequence in bios to it, and it booted. but i redid all that using the same steps (just a new boot and root partition), and this time for no apparent reason it didn't find boot media.
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23:32<hime>then i fiddled with f2, f10, and nearby keys trying to get bios, and a menu popped up asking for boot drive. i selected removable drive, and it booted perfectly. what menu did i pop up there? was it grub? was it kernel? was it some strange bios menu that is not the bios setup? old lenovo.
23:33<hime>so, tldr, removable drive does not boot if you use boot sequence. it has done so before. but it does boot perfectly if a mysterious menu is invoked.
23:34<hime>dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc was used to put grub on it, as usual
23:34<somiaj>most modern firmware(old bios) has a boot menu that you can select the efi boot optio or legacy boot mode (if enabmed)
23:34<somiaj>But it sounds like you were looking at your firmware's boot menu
23:34<sussudio>hime: was it the grub prompt?
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23:35<hime>somiaj: i think it is old enough not to have any rerferences to efi in the bios setup. i have only ever seen 2 screens from the bios: fan failure and bios setup. this one would be new to me. sussudio it did not look like prompt, but a menu in the middle of the screen. the bios setup is totally different looking. and so is grub.
23:36<hime>(bios setup being something on grey and grub being white on blue) this is oldstable btw
23:36<somiaj>even pre uefi days, firmware would have its own boot menu, it was just simpler (select device)
23:37<hime>the menu said something like select boot device. previous attempts had the thing saying no boot devioce found with no menu.
23:37<somiaj>but this is something on your hardware, not grub
23:37<hime>yeah i'd love to have that menu... if i can recreate whatever function keys... :)
23:37<hime>(assuming it's bios and not grub)
23:38<somiaj>well read up on your bios options, often there is a key you can hit to get that menu at start
23:38<hime>would this thing be connected to some function key other than the one that opens setup?
23:38<hime>ok
23:38<somiaj>I haven't seen any give you the option to just show that menu without a key press
23:38<hime>i doubt i can find any docs on this
23:39<somiaj>look up the bios version for the hardware, it often has some docs, even the manfactures user manual is often online
23:39<hime>it is possible that i used a function key that i do not normally use on that occasion, so it is possible it is some special bios mennu
23:40<somiaj>It really depends on the actual firmware/bios, so beyond that it is just guessing. Look up the info based on the bios version/machine you are using
23:40<hime>but the question remains why it did not boot when i changed boot sequence to the removable drive only (for first attempt it failed overf to the hard drive, then i made everything removable drive, then it said no found boot device), but did boot with this special menu
23:41<hime>ok sounds like you think it is bios in this case
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23:42<hime>(i.e. i'd think it would either boot or not boot, and would not depend on whehteer it was from setup screen boot sequence vs. this mhysteryous menu)(
23:42<somiaj>Until you see the grub menu, it is firwmare/bios
23:43<hime>can i find out from the grub menu what drive i am booting from?
23:44<somiaj>I don't think you can tell which drive you botted from to get to the grub menu from grub, again this is at the firmware/bios level
23:45<hime>i get that part, just thought perhaps grub could tell me what drive it is on, as opposed to booting then looking at lsblk
23:46<hime>i suppose i could put a different set of menu options on different drives or something, but htat sounds laborious and brittle
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 22 00:00:21 2021