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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-24

---Logopened Sat Jul 24 00:00:24 2021
00:01<lhvf>[...] definitively [...] ( typo.. ).
00:02-!-madez [~madez@ip-176-198-251-181.hsi05.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: .]
00:03<tp43_>lhvf, 8.11 Jessie
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00:05<tp43_>lhvf, I like the lsb_release command. What other commands do you have you think I might like?
00:09<Sqrt{not}>tp43_, actual release debian 8.11 has kernel 3.16.0-4
00:09<lhvf> To catch information from your Kernel side : " # " (Root logged) ` #cat /etc/*-release ` (you could try instead, to do not confuse with OpenVPZ side Kernel..).
00:10<lhvf>Sqrt{not}: He is correct. Debian 8.x.y is since a long time ago Old Release (Obsolete).
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00:11<lhvf>tp43_ Or, wait.. I meant : He is correct. Debian 8.x.y is since a long time ago Old Release (Obsolete).
00:12<Sqrt{not}>lhvf, but real Jessie 8.11 does not have kernel 2.6.32-042stab145.3
00:13<lhvf>Sqrt{not}: I do know that. The Debian 8.x.y was developed under Kernel 3.16 (an old LTS Kernel LTS).
00:13<lhvf>(an old Linux Kernel LTS). I meant..
00:16<jochum>may its a xen machine
00:16<Sqrt{not}>lhvf, so this openVZ cloud thing has its own homemade 2.6.32 kernel, but calls it Jessie, even though Jessie used various 3.16 kernels.
00:16<lhvf>Useful URL Addresse: <https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie > ( • kernel: Linux 3.16 ).
00:17<lhvf>[...] URL 'Address' [...]
00:18<lhvf>By for the moment. I'll open my Matrix.or another account..
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00:30<tp43_>ok I am running stretch on 2.6 kernel
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00:44<allan_wind>Hello friends, is there (or what is the best way) to upgrade the kernel for security updates without a reboot?
00:47<raven523>you always need to reboot to upgrade kernels
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00:47<raven523>things like ksplice aren't widely useable, and even kexec requires rebooting userspace
00:47<allan_wind>kexec, afiak, is still a reboot. ksplice is..
00:48<Sqrt{not}>tp43_, the earliest version of debian stretch used kernel 4.9. it is not stretch if the kernel is 2.6
00:48<allan_wind>raven523: heh
00:48<allan_wind>raven523: k, thx
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00:50<allan_wind>what about kpatch?
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00:51<raven523>I don't think that's really available on debian without using a custom kernel build
00:51<raven523>but I'm not really sure
00:52<raven523>in any case, I don't trust kpatch and ksplice to work correctly, so I always reboot, but none of my servers take more than a minute to reboot
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02:55<richard_h>https://www.debian.org/CD/verify doesn't go into detail of how to do the verification; I'm not sure if that's deliberate?
02:56<richard_h>I've checked the iso against the SHA512SUMS file, but not sure how to check the signature - I have the 'debian-archive-keyring' package installed; I assume that should contain enough to verify?
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03:13<pi__>erver irc.chathispano.org
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03:27<RoyK>richard_h: https://danilodellaquila.com/en/blog/how-to-verify-authenticity-of-downloaded-debian-iso-images
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04:08<richard_h>RoyK: thanks
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04:11<richard_h>actually it seems I do have a good signature, but it's not trusted because I haven't got a trust path from my key to the signing key
04:12<richard_h>and I'm not sure how practical it is to get that.
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05:11<richard_h>any thoughts on good separators for lvm vg or lv names?
05:11<richard_h>if I use '-', then it gets messed up when viewed under /dev/mapper/
05:12<richard_h>ie - gets duplicated
05:12<richard_h>is '.' likely to be safe?
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05:51<Linux77>@nive UGT to all, a great hug cool friends!
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06:13<firewire10000>Hi
06:13<firewire10000>Does anyone have any experience with DebianOn on the Rock64?
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06:17<petn-randall>!ask
06:17<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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07:21<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
07:21<amacater>How can we help?
07:22<cousin_luigi>Is sysvinit still supported on Bullseye?
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07:23<cousin_luigi>in*
07:25<amacater>Yes but to a smaller extent than systemd
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07:25<cousin_luigi>I'm using a modified version of debian using a peculiar script to have root mounted ro and I've been doing so since lenny. I dread the day I will have to reimplement it in some other way.
07:26<cousin_luigi>amacater: That's probably good enough.
07:26<amacater>You should be able to run it as a systemd srevice
07:27<cousin_luigi>amacater: How about journals?
07:28<cousin_luigi>So far regular logs can be backed up between ram disk and persistent storage.
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07:33<amacater>Fairly sure that you should still be able to run logs OK - I'd ask on debian-user mailing list, maybe
07:34<petn-randall>cousin_luigi: just set your root fs to ro in /etc/fstab. No changes needed regarding systemd. Also FYI, Debian derivatives are not supported in #debian.
07:34<bremner>cousin_luigi: note that you'll probably need to mount /usr in initird to be a supported configuration (unless it's already part of /)
07:35<cousin_luigi>petn-randall: Except certain directories.
07:35<richard_h>hmm. root on lvm on crypt on a partition is probably not bootable, is it.
07:35<cousin_luigi>Using unionfs for that.
07:35<richard_h>unless I have a separate boot
07:35<petn-randall>cousin_luigi: What do you mean by that?
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07:36<cousin_luigi>petn-randall: I mean, I have / mounted as ro except for selected directories. And some are backed up at reboot or shut down and some aren't.
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07:37<cousin_luigi>(I mean synced)
07:39<petn-randall>cousin_luigi: Sure, but that has nothing to do with your init system.
07:40<cousin_luigi>petn-randall: Is journald independent of that?
07:40<richard_h>or can I do it as long as I use LUKS v1?
07:41<petn-randall>cousin_luigi: journald is a service that can be run under system, and on a default Debian installation doesn't write any persistent data to disk.
07:42<cousin_luigi>petn-randall: I see. I suppose I'll have to re-visit this.
07:44<petn-randall>*system=systemd
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07:45<richard_h>hmm. "Cannot convert to LUKS1 format - keyslot 0 is not LUKS1 compatible"
07:45<petn-randall>richard_h: grub should be able to boot from LUKSv1.
07:47<petn-randall>firewire10000: See the factoid below your last message. It's best to ask your question to save a useless roundtrip.
07:47<richard_h>continuing to read - there's a solution for that
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07:59<Tedesco>hallo, can you help me with an issue? it's this “Authentication is required to refresh the system repositories” pop-up every time i come back from suspend or logging in after a while afk. it doesn't seem to do anything and it's usually several layers of it that go away when i hit cancel a bunch of times in all of them. i'm using buster
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08:11<richard_h>hmm, "The 'grub-efi-amd64' package failed to install into /target/" etc
08:12<richard_h>does that seem likely to be encryption-related?
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08:15<richard_h>this is a bullseye rc2 installation, btw
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08:21<richard_h>the log on vt4 shows no space left on device, but my efi partition has 266M free - and it's not the first error
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08:22<richard_h>errors were encountered while processing: shim-helpers-amd64-signed shim-signed:amd64
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08:24<richard_h>shim-signed was left unconfigured. Can I re-do that from a shell in the installer, to at least see what went wrong?
08:25<richard_h>I can do a little more by chrooting into /target/
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08:31<richard_h>using apt-get install shim-helpers-amd64-signed, after mounting /dev/pts, the first signs of something bad seem to start with "File descriptor 3 (pipe:[124787]) leaked on vgs invocation. Parent PID 1586: grub-install
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08:31<richard_h>(typed by hand; I can't copy/paste from my laptop's console)
08:32<Samuel-KimYoung>hy everyone i need help, my mx linux take long time to boot about 5mins what can i do to fix it.
08:34<richard_h>running 'vgs' by hand seems to work fine
08:35<richard_h>also, searches for 'file descriptor leaked on vgs invocation' suggest that those messages are harmless.
08:36<richard_h>Is my efi partition just too small?
08:36<richard_h>356M
08:40<cousin_luigi>thanks everyone, bbl
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09:06<richard_h>I'm not sure whether the installation of shim-helpers-amd64-signed fails because it tries to run grub-install, or whether grub-install fails because it needs shim-helpers-amd64-signed ...
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09:09<richard_h>shim-helpers... postinst certainly calls grub-install, so I guess it's the former
09:09*richard_h wonders if anyone is watching :-)
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09:12<richard_h>hmm. https://forum.manjaro.org/t/error-message-on-clean-install-no-space-left-on-device-grub-install/58355/5
09:13<richard_h>that person accidentally discovered that it had worked after all ...
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09:14<richard_h>though the persistent installer errors suggest otherwise
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09:14<richard_h>but maybe the postinst just needs to ignore the failure from grub-install ...
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09:23<richard_h>reboots into grub shell :-(
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09:41*richard_h reinstalls with an enlarged ESP, and separate unencrypted /boot
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09:53<richard_h>and it still fails :-(
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09:55<richard_h>it would kind of help if it could say _which_ device there was no space left on ...
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10:13<Sqrt{not}>richard_h, my first guess will be /boot has no space.
10:18<richard_h>Sqrt{not}: previously, /boot was on / which was 32G. Now it's separate, and 1G, and has 758M free
10:18<richard_h>so I don't think it's that
10:19<richard_h>I wondered about /boot/efi/efivars/, but that's a virtual fs of some kind, and df doesn't show the normal stuff
10:20<richard_h>so I don't know if or how it could fill up
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10:23<richard_h>but it seems to relate to NVRAM, so I guess it could?
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10:25<Sqrt{not}>richard_h, 758M free in /boot should be OK
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10:28<Sqrt{not}>(just arrived, will read more of your scrollback) I have /boot/efi as actual disk, not some virt
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10:29<richard_h> /boot/efi/efivars is not what I meant
10:29<richard_h>it's /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
10:30<richard_h>and in searching, I see references to people deleting dump files from there, of which I seem to have quite a lot
10:30<richard_h>but I'm reluctant do delete stuff before understanding what it is
10:30<richard_h>especially if it's not on my disk but in NVRAM
10:31<richard_h>https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EFISTUB#Cannot_create_a_new_boot_entry_with_efibootmgr
10:33<richard_h>crossed my fingers and deleted those dump files - now it seems to be working :-)
10:36<richard_h>and it even boots :-)
10:36<richard_h>so now I need to decide whether to go back and have another go at encrypted /boot
10:36<richard_h>but not now - 2:30am
10:37<Sqrt{not}>richard_h, good job.
10:38<richard_h>I don't know what causes the NVRAM to fill up - what those dump files are
10:39<richard_h>so I don't know whether it's worth adding somethign to the release notes
10:40<richard_h>but I did just upgrade my BIOS (what HP calls it anyway), by copying the bin file into the ESP, and upgrading from the setup
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11:11<Kenny>hello guys
11:12<Kenny>what linux phone you recomand to me ?
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11:21<amacater>Kenny: Maybe the pinephone? It's cheap - and you get what you pay for - but that's offtopic for here.
11:23<bremner>also they left
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13:41<gvw>how to fix the damn session locked thing
13:42<gvw>an application wants to access keyring default but it is locked
13:42<gvw>it asks for some password
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13:45<gvw>ok deleted that damn keyring using seahorse
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13:50<jmcnaught>judd: info libpam-gnome-keyring
13:50<judd>Package libpam-gnome-keyring (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: PAM module to unlock the GNOME keyring upon login. Version: 3.28.2-5; Size: 298.7k; Installed: 349k; Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring
13:51<jmcnaught>gvw: if you did not have the above package installed (because of disabling recommends?) then the keyring does not get unlocked on login.
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14:33<Forty-Bot>are there any tools to generate debian/copyright files for packages with SPDX file headers?
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14:35<Forty-Bot>I looked at https://wiki.debian.org/CopyrightReviewTools, but licensecheck doesn't appear to detect SPDX headers properly
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14:40<robertcartagenajr>Hello
14:41<robertcartagenajr>I'm looking to learn about the chromebook
14:41<robertcartagenajr>and Debian
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14:46<Sqrt{not}>robertcartagenajr, there are several pages about other users' experience installing debian on various flavors of chromebook here: https://wiki.debian.org/FrontPage?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=chromebook&titlesearch=Titles
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14:46<sney>robertcartagenajr: there are a lot of different chromebook models with varying support for non-ChromeOS. some are listed here, and if you find a similar model to yours you may be able to follow the same instructions https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn
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14:47<robertcartagenajr>I got locked out my bios
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14:53<RoadRunner>would Bullseye work on a PentiumIII?
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14:57<sney>RoadRunner: 686 cpus are still supported, and grub will be fine, it should "work" but performance depends on what you want to do.
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14:58<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, I have successfully run Bullseye on a Pentium III, it works OK. You probably will need a generous amount of swap.
14:58<sney>I would particularly avoid any of the large desktop suites or gui applications.
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15:00<raven523>686 was Pentium Pro, right?
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15:00<sney>the first 686 was pentium pro, it continued through the rest of intel's 32-bit x86 models
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15:01<robertcartagenajr>Hello
15:01<kteague>robert: hi
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15:14<Sqrt{not}>robertcartagenajr, I guess your bios problem is not caused by debian? I think a web search gives many possibilities for chromebook bios problems.
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15:34<RoadRunner>sney: Sqrt{not}: is running Firefox likely to be a problem?
15:34<RoadRunner>... on PentiumIII
15:34<sney>it will not be fast.
15:35<RoadRunner>but it a browser will work? 'cause it didn't under Puppy linux...
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15:36<Guest2067>i cant install libappindicator1 on Debian 11
15:36<Guest2067>it wont let me install discord
15:37<sney>RoadRunner: running anything modern on hardware that old will require a lot of patience. I can't tell you 100% if firefox will load, but it was functional on a 32-bit atom I used recently, so I would guess that it will at least open and render basic html for you. anything else will depend on available memory
15:37<Guest2067>sney: im on a 64 bit atom lol
15:38<sney>Guest2067: that would explain why I was talking to RoadRunner, not you
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15:38<Guest2067>i know
15:39<sney>Guest2067: libappindicator is deprecated. for now you can install it from sid. hopefully discord and anyone else will migrate to ayatana as suggested in #895037
15:39<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/895037 in src:libappindicator (open, bullseye, sid): «libappindicator: deprecated in Debian; AppIndicator based applications, please switch to Ayatana (App)Indicator(s)»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-04-06; last modified: 2021-04-25.
15:39<Guest2067>how do i install it through sid
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15:40<sney>you can set default-release, or you can download the package from https://packages.debian.org/ and install manually.
15:41<Guest2067>thanks
15:41<sney>it looks like you will need both libappindicator1 and libindicator7
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15:44<cabrerae[m]>there's also a discord flatpak in case you didn't know, that should work without messing with sid packages
15:45<RoadRunner>sney: thank you :)
15:46<RoadRunner>Sqrt{not}: how much swap would you suggest?
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15:48<sney>RoadRunner: how much physical ram does this pc have?
15:48<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, I don't remember, I think I gave it a couple GB, but depends what you have available.
15:49<Sqrt{not}>my poor old Pentium III has only 384 GB of real memory
15:49<sney>MB* I'm sure haha
15:49<Sqrt{not}>oh, right, geez.
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15:54<Sqrt{not}>RoadRunner, one hint I remember from that testing: the installer is finicky when it is very low on memory. better to install a minimal system, and then boot into the installed system, and add more things.
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16:09<aa>aaa
16:09<RoadRunner>sney: mine is a Pentium III (1000MHz) with 512MB of RAM
16:10<sney>I think I'd suggest 2 or 3 GB of swap, though you can always add more with a swapfile later
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16:11<RoadRunner>for a comp that old, is there anything to be gained by waiting for Deb11 vs Deb10?
16:13<sney>it depends on what the computer is for, but I doubt it
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16:14<RoadRunner>just general stuff like browsing, email, irc, pidgin, old games
16:16<sney>unlikely to be any practical benefit of bullseye over buster, but bullseye's eol is further away
16:16<RoadRunner>also, perhaps there is a lighter version of Firefox or another browser altogether that is light on demand for resources that would be recommended for my comp?
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16:18<sney>,v midori
16:18<judd>Package: midori on amd64 -- stretch: 0.5.11-ds1-4+b1; buster: 7.0-2; bullseye: 7.0-2.1; sid: 7.0-2.1
16:18<sney>,i midori
16:18<judd>Package midori (web, optional) in buster/amd64: fast, lightweight graphical web browser. Version: 7.0-2; Size: 716.7k; Installed: 4129k; Homepage: https://www.midori-browser.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/midori
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16:19<sney>haven't used midori in some time but that's what it's intended for, and it uses webkit so it should render most stuff in a sane fashion
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16:20<RoadRunner>is there a version of midori for 32bit?
16:20<sney>yes, it's arch:any
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16:22<RoadRunner>hmm, can't seem to connect to midori's page...
16:23<sney>looks like their website is down, though there is https://github.com/midori-browser
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16:26<Sqrt{not}>try this: https://astian.org/en/midori-browser/
16:27<Sqrt{not}>hmmm, comes with some strange markup, FF here doesn't understand it
16:30<RoadRunner>confusing... which version to download/install...
16:31<sney>RoadRunner: 'apt install midori'
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16:46<RoadRunner>sney: apt will automaticaly grab the 32bit version?
16:46<sney>on your 32-bit system, yes.
16:46<RoadRunner>thank you :)
16:46<sney>our channel bots give amd64 search results by default, but most packages are available for all supported cpu architectures
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16:47<RoadRunner>good to know that apt is smart like that
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16:48<RoadRunner>btw, earlier you said that 'bullseye's eol is further away'. eol?
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16:50<RoadRunner>end of life/support?
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16:50<Sqrt{not}>right
16:51<RoadRunner>now I see the light :) thank you all for your wisdom
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17:48<Ares000>Hi! I am interested in games packaging for debian
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17:49<Ares000>can someone help me with a book about it or some links?
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18:00<FLHerne>Ares000: I'd start at https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging
18:01<Ares000>thank you!
18:01<FLHerne>Shouldn't be anything specific about games vs. other software
18:01<FLHerne>What are you starting from -- source code, or binary-only from somewhere?
18:02<FLHerne>Obviously with non-free games you may be restricted by licensing/EULA from distributing any packages you build
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18:25<tp43_>How do I find the ip address of other machines on my pvt net. I tried ping -b 192.168.0.255 but nothing
18:25<raven523>that only works if the hosts respond to broadcast pings
18:26<raven523>you could also try things like "ip neigh" but that would only show hosts that share a network segment with you and that have recently responded to an NDP or ARP query (both are needed for IPv6 or IPv4 to work, respectively)
18:27<raven523>if you have nmap you could try nmap 192.168.0.0/24 but be aware that that might get detected by some firewall and intrusion detection systems if this is a corporate network
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18:28<tp43_>I want to find all host on my pvt net that are connected to same dhcp server. I could check my dhcp server, but mine is provided by my isp and I checked in web config, and it doesn't seem to have the option in there.
18:28<tp43_>raven523, thx. It is ok, it is my own home net.
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18:34<raven523>even with something like this it won't reveal systems that do things to prevent themselves from being discovered, like ignoring NDP or ARP queries that don't come from the router
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19:57<tp43_>I have a sierra wireless modem connected via usb. lsusb output is Bus 003 Device 006: ID 1199:68c0 Sierra Wireless, Inc.
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20:00<tp43_>and it is connected via lan but doesn't respond to ping
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20:04<Catoptromancy>so ive been trying to use a game fullscreen, it runs fine once after I startx. If I close game and use same command on terminal again, the terminal overlays the full screen game and steals the mouse control .
20:04<Catoptromancy>ive fixed this years ago....just forgot what I did
20:04<Catoptromancy>even went through and needlessly installed non-free nvidia drivers
20:05<Catoptromancy>even running game as root does it
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20:07<Habbie>i know this response will not help much, but X does not care much about the user under which an application runs
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20:08<vv221>Catoptromancy, what game is causing issues?
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20:24<Catoptromancy>prboom-plus
20:24<Catoptromancy>sdl video
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20:26<Catoptromancy>hmm i think it only happens with dwm
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20:27<Catoptromancy>i got a new harddrive and tried just installing dwm and xorg
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20:30<Catoptromancy>it does work fine with xfce
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20:30<Catoptromancy>but I much much rather use dwm
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20:35<Sqrt{not}>Catoptromancy, that sounds like "focus" problems. what happens if you do "alt-j" to change focus to the next window?
20:37<Catoptromancy>nothing
20:38<Catoptromancy>even if I lauch game from menu, nothing else on screen
20:38<Catoptromancy>i get fullscreen, but no mouse control
20:39<Catoptromancy>I see desktop mouse cursor, and keyboard works game fine
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20:39<Catoptromancy>but need mouse in game
20:39<Catoptromancy>there was nothing to focus to
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20:40<Catoptromancy>hmm actually its doing it now
20:40<Catoptromancy>but I cannot have an xterm open
20:40<Catoptromancy>which is needed to launch game
20:40<Catoptromancy>im constantly using different commands on it
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20:43<Catoptromancy>ok if xterm is maximized, game fully opens to fullscreen, but still has desktop cursor that does nothing in-game
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20:49<Sqrt{not}>Catoptromancy, sometimes focus can be established by clicking on the window decoration, or just clicking within the desired window.
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20:53<Catoptromancy>its fullscreen
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20:54<Catoptromancy>the mouse has no affect on the fullscreen program, that is overlayed with the xterm that launched it
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21:00<Sqrt{not}>Catoptromancy, assuming you are still in dwm, you can make the currently focussed window become full-screen in the front, with alt-m
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21:02<user01>just to make sure . . . if i take /home/user/download/test/ cut it and paste it over /home/test/ it will merge the two and prompt to overwrite any collisions, correct?
21:02<Catoptromancy>all the usual focus rules are not nothing
21:03<Catoptromancy>doing nothing*
21:03<user01>i ran a test and it seemed to merge ok
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21:07<Catoptromancy>when a game is full screen, cant just minimize it by alt+mouse2
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21:07<Catoptromancy>i think in sdl is mouse and screen grab
21:08<Catoptromancy>im going to just compile this and uninstall
21:09<Catoptromancy>might sort something out
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21:24<Catoptromancy>even a compiled one and chocolate-doom does it too
21:24<Catoptromancy>ill eventually get this heh
21:25<Catoptromancy>my old system worked fine for so long, I forgot how I fixed it
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21:58<hendursaga>Catoptromancy: I learned that lesson some years ago, now I document most any systems change that takes me more than 10 minutes to figure out
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22:05<Catoptromancy>i remember now, it was the main reason I didnt use dwm for a long time
22:05<Catoptromancy>i kept going back to xfce
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22:45<Catoptromancy>well found a stupid solution for now
22:46<Catoptromancy>game launch with some text terminal for a very short time, can alt+ a number to just change workspaces
22:46<Catoptromancy>switch to workspace that is already empty, nothing to lose focus to
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