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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-07-30

---Logopened Fri Jul 30 00:00:03 2021
---Daychanged Fri Jul 30 2021
00:00<Sqrt{not}>not .11 .12 instead
00:00<Sqrt{not}>so: ssh
00:00<urk>So I should use There is no reference to a Giggabyte board in the scans, and I question whether any of these IPs are the correct ones?
00:02<Sqrt{not}>well, the only 2 machine listening for ssh connections in that entire /24 network are and
00:02<Sqrt{not}>try it and see what happens
00:02<urk>Its asking me for a password, and the one I have used all along isn't accepted.
00:03<urk>What do I do about the password problem?
00:03<Sqrt{not}>I thought you went through some process to setup ssh using keys, not passwords. what happened to that?
00:04<urk>Sqrt{not}: I did, and not sure why I am being prompted for this.
00:04<aloo_shu>eh if the username is different on the remote, you need to give that, too
00:05<Sqrt{not}>can you show what the screen looks like when you connect to this mystery .12 machine please?
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00:08<urk>Something went wrong. As mentioned earlier, I changed the port from 22 on the remote machine to something obscure, and forgot to write the new port address down. However, it was above 4,000
00:09<Sqrt{not}>sigh. OK, maybe that is the -- nmap reported that it scanned 1000 port on it and found nothing open, but apparently your secret ssh port is not in the first 1000.
00:10<urk>How do I change the scan so that it scans for the correct IP?
00:12<Sqrt{not}>let's try this: nmap -p1-65536
00:13<urk>Sqrt{not}: Incidentally I didn't disable pasword authentification, and only enabled the ID so that either could be used.
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00:15<Sqrt{not}>urk, that might be the one you already tried then, since it said this: pdq@ Permission denied (publickey,password)
00:15<Sqrt{not}>but if you really changed the port, then that probably is not the one
00:16<urk>received an error indicating that ports must be between 0 and 65535 inclusive QUITTING. I changed the scann to 65535 and then received a message that all 65535 scanned ports on are closed.
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00:18<Sqrt{not}>hmmm, not good. I'm sorry to say, but it looks like you made it too tricky, and too secure.
00:19<Konomi>ultimately secure, no one can log into it
00:19<Sqrt{not}>the first nmap scan found 4 machines on your local network. Do you know how many machines are connected to this network?
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00:21<urk>Sqrt{not}: Just my Dell XPS that I am talking to you now, and the box with a Giggabyte board that is hard wired to my cable modem, and that is it.
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00:24<Sqrt{not}>I hate to say it, but nmap found one more -- -- and from the much bigger latency, it looks like it maybe is on wifi? is that possible?
00:24<urk>Nothing is on wifi here except my cell phone.
00:24<urk>Everything is wired into my modem.
00:24<Sqrt{not}>could that one be your cell phone then?
00:25<urk>I am going to shut off my phone and see what happens.
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00:29<urk>Sqrt{not}: I recall there is dual boot between multiple types of Linux on the other machine.
00:29<Sqrt{not}>urk, OK, good, that mystery address went away, so it probably was the cell phone. Thus your gigabyte thing is actually on
00:29<urk>How do you know?
00:30<Sqrt{not}>because now there are only 3: .1 is the router, .10 we already know is your Dell, so the only other one must be your giga thing
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00:30<urk>I tried to ssh, and still being prompted for a password.
00:30<urk>How do I fix that problem?
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00:31<urk>Also wondering why I am not also requested for the RSA ID instead?
00:31<Sqrt{not}>I don't know. as I recall, you were following some non-debian guides on how to set it up. then you also fixed it to work with keys, and then changed the ports?
00:32<Sqrt{not}>but wait, you said maybe the giga thing is dual- or multi-booting, and it is headless so you don't see what it is doing? is that right?
00:32<urk>I followed the guide at and at
00:33<Sqrt{not}>urk, sorry, I'm not familiar with either of those guides.
00:33<urk>Sqrt{not}: Yes there is a dual boot option on the Giggabyte board.
00:34<urk>My memory seems to believe it was both Debian and Centos.
00:34<Sqrt{not}>so maybe it is booting the other thing, not whatever you think it is booting?
00:34<Sqrt{not}>can you make it boot into the other option, not the one it is on now?
00:34<urk>I don't know. I just want to figure out how to see the directory structure and files on the Giggabyte board.
00:34<Sqrt{not}>well, step one is to log in somehow
00:35<urk>I don't have a monitor for the other machine, and the OS boots by default into Debian, but password protected.
00:35<Sqrt{not}>did you install that debian and centos onto it, or someone else?
00:35<urk>Sqrt{not}: I installed Debian and Centos on to it.
00:35<Sqrt{not}>how did you manage to setup ssh on it without a monitor?
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00:36<urk>At one point it had a monitor, but its a sordid story. I had to replace the hard drive, and power supply because both failed, but was able to save all of the data. After that, I got served a no cause eviction while I was out of town, and put everything in storage. The box was left out purposely so I could get access to the data.
00:37<Sqrt{not}>ewwww. sorry to hear it.
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00:37<urk>The other box does boot into Debian by default.
00:37<urk>But hasn't been run since at least 2017
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00:38<urk>It is turned on now.
00:38<urk>Why am I being prompted for a password that isn't accepted? HOw do I fix this password problem that shows up after running ssh
00:38<Sqrt{not}>but how did you do all this configuring and ssh activating, and port changing, and key management, the last few days? on this inaccessible box? how did you see what you were doing then?
00:39<Sqrt{not}>did you install this debian long ago on that box? did you maybe use a different password back then? were you able to log into it recently to do all this crypto-key manipulation?
00:39<urk>I followed the instructions found at, and also got help from jcnaught on copying the public key to the /.ssh directory
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00:40<Sqrt{not}>how did you install any keys on the giga box, if you cannot log into it?
00:40<urk>I probably did use a different password, but don't recall what it is. I have an inkling of what some of the characters are.
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00:40<urk>Instructions said this could be done with an IP alone which was obtained with nano before I changed the port.
00:41<jmcnaught>How did you change the port on a computer with no monitor that you cannot connect to with ssh?
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00:43<urk>Hold on. Let me look up what I did.
00:45<urk>I may have changed something in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
00:45<jmcnaught>On the laptop or the headless computer?
00:46<urk>ok. The port I used was 64472. I found it in the configuration file.
00:47<urk>The port was changed with vim /etc/ssh/sshd_config
00:47<jmcnaught>On the laptop?
00:48<jmcnaught>That does not change it on the old headless computer though.
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00:49<urk>Port on the laptop is 64472
00:49<urk>Its probably still 22 on the laptop
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00:51<urk>How do I reset the public key password? That seems to be one of the bottlenecks.
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00:52<jmcnaught>It sounds like you have not yet accessed the old monitor-less computer at all yet, by ssh or otherwise.
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00:52<jmcnaught>If you edited /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the laptop it would have no effect on the other computer.
00:53<urk>jmcnaught: No I have not accessed the old monitor as of yet. I may have found something to help me regain password control of the public key pair
00:53<jmcnaught>urk: are you talking about ssh keys that you just made recently?
00:54<jmcnaught>urk: for that to work you need to copy the public ssh key to the server computer (the one with no monitor).
00:55<jmcnaught>urk: if you have not been able to copy the ssh public key to the monitor-less computer you will not be able to use the newly created key pair to connect.
00:55<jmcnaught>urk: password authentication would be your only option.
00:55<urk>I thought it was copied, but maybe something went wrong?
00:55<jmcnaught>urk: how was it copied?
00:56<urk>Hold on. Let me look it up.
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00:58<urk>I think it was this ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/<public_key_file> <user>@<remote machine>, and I took instructions from
00:59<urk>I am going to try doing it again to make sure.
01:00<jmcnaught>urk: ssh-copy-id uses ssh to copy the public key to the correct place on the server you are connecting to. If there was no public key already, you would have had to enter a password for ssh-copy-id to successfully copy the key to the server.
01:01<urk>jmcnaught: The password that I thought I used quit working. It worked prior to this evening.
01:02<jmcnaught>urk: or you copied the ssh to the wrong computer.
01:02<urk>I think I am having a path problem
01:03<urk>I used the IP address that nano said was for the Giggabyte machine. The other machine has a Giggabyte motherboard.
01:03<jmcnaught>urk: 1. use "su -l" always, never "su" alone. 2. Why are you root in the first place?
01:05<urk>I went into root so that I would have less typing
01:05<urk>only known_hosts is in .ssh
01:05<jmcnaught>You do not need to be root to use the ssh command/client
01:05<jmcnaught>If you do not need root for something, you should not be root.
01:07<urk>I am no longer root
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01:09<jmcnaught>Were you root when you created the ssh key pair that you think you copied to the other computer?
01:09<urk>jmcnaught: I don't think so.
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01:10<urk>I tried copying this from the home directory since there is a copy in there.
01:11<jmcnaught>urk: you used '-f' where you should use '-i'
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01:12<urk>I think there is still a path problem
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01:13<jmcnaught>urk: what does "ls .ssh" say?
01:14<urk>jmcnaught: Can not access file
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01:16<jmcnaught>urk: did you "cd /" before running "ls .ssh"? Type "cd" to get back to your home directory, or use "ls ~/.ssh"
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01:19<urk>jmcnaught: authorized keys is 072721 instead of Shouldn't this be
01:19<urk>Authorized keys showed up after running ls ~/.ssh
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01:21<jmcnaught>urk: ~/.ssh/authorized_keys is a file that contains public keys from key pairs that are allowed to log in as that user on that computer over ssh
01:21<urk>jmcnaught: How come the key shows up as 072721 instead of
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01:23<urk>I have a that is in the folder that is /home/pdq
01:24<jmcnaught>urk: I do not know, maybe you moved it.
01:25<urk>Is this the correct command given the setup I have ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/
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01:26<urk>Is the 072721 or the the file that needs to be copied to /.ssh?
01:28<urk>I wonder if they are reversed? I see 072721 after running ls .ssh
01:28<urk>Should I copy the to .ssh, and the 072721 from .ssh to /home/pdq?
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01:29<urk>Actually meant to say use mv command instead of copy
01:29<jmcnaught>urk: I do not know why is in /home/pdq and not /home/pdq/.ssh in the first place.
01:30<urk>I don't either. I thought we moved the 072721 to the .ssh, but maybe I moved the wrong file?
01:30<jmcnaught>urk: both files belong in .ssh
01:30<urk>ok. I will attempt to move the other file.
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01:31<jmcnaught>urk: anyways this all seems futile because you do not know the password on the monitor-less computer.
01:31<urk>Maybe not. I have an inkling of what it is.
01:32<urk>is this the correct command mv 072721.07b /.ssh?
01:32<jmcnaught>Until you figure it out, or find a way to physically log in with a monitor (and mouse and keyboard) you will not be able to ssh into it.
01:32<jmcnaught>It does not matter that you created an SSH key pair
01:33<urk>I think I know what it is.
01:34<urk>ok, both keys are in there.
01:34<urk>I will try copying again.
01:34<urk>to the other computer.
01:36<urk>Well this is what I see on my computer Should I just use a hard drive enclosure at this point?
01:37<urk>Its still asking me for a password. Is this the password to the remote machine? Or the password to the ssh pair?
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01:40<jmcnaught>urk: the remote machine
01:40<urk>Can the password be changed from a remote device?
01:41<Blendie>yes but you need to log in first
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01:43<urk>Blendie: What in case I can't log in because I don't remember the password to the remote device? Can this be changed with the passwd command?
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01:43<Blendie>then you need to acess root on that machine and change it with passwd
01:44<urk>How do I access the root of the machine? I'm looking at a tutorial, but it didn't give me all that I need to know
01:45<Blendie>you might want to boot up a live system then chroot to the actuall system
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01:47<urk>Blendie: Is that done on my side?
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01:47<Blendie>it cannt be done remotely
01:48<urk>ok. IN that case I need to pull the drive, and put it in a hard drive enclosure tomorrow. Thanks for all of your help.
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01:48<Blendie>for the future - use ssh keys
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02:53<snowyfox>Umm, random IRC-related question..
02:53<snowyfox>Does OFTC have a bouncer?
02:54<snowyfox>If not, can I, like, view IRC using telnet..?
02:54<sney>I don't think oftc has a bouncer service but you could ask them in #oftc
02:54<snowyfox>Because if so, then on a TTY in my server I can just telnet and maybe forward stdout to a file
02:54<snowyfox>rather than install a bouncer nor IRC client
02:54<snowyfox>Ah, that's their meta channel..
02:54<sney>rfc1459 is p simple if you feel like running it all manually over telnet, that should be possible
03:03<rudi_s>Don't forget to PONG every few minutes ...
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03:03<rudi_s>A minimal IRC client is easy with awk if you like to use that ...
03:04<snowyfox>sleepy RFC reading..
03:04<snowyfox>..pong? server pings..?
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03:10<Konomi>you need to periodically reply to the irc server or you'll be disconnected
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03:11<snowyfox>A bit scary.. so, I cannot just telnet and leave it AFK for hours
03:11<Konomi>no you cannot
03:12<snowyfox>Mm, I can use AWK or something else that will reply once in a while for me..
03:12<Konomi>but you could write something in perl or python and it would be extremely simple
03:12<snowyfox>but I've never written a script like that before..
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03:14<Konomi>like 20 lines if you're lucky
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03:15<rudi_s>snowyfox: Or you could just use a regular (terminal) IRC client like irssi or weechat ;-)
03:16<Konomi>I love weechat
03:17<Konomi>But yeah the python or perl if you're inclined is extremely simple for irc, that's why a lot of people start with an irc client as a programming exercise
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03:19<vv221>I remember using ii as a base for IRC unattended interactions:
03:19<vv221>I liked its file-base interface.
03:19<vv221>But for "bouncing" needs, I more simply rely on weechat in tmux on a server.
03:20<snowyfox2> One second..
03:20<snowyfox2>rudi_s But telnet is funnier..
03:21-!-rpittau|afk is now known as rpittau
03:21<snowyfox2>also, private messaging the channel to post a message to everyone in it..? and then it says IRC was meant to be for private messaging other people..
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03:22<snowyfox>I've heard about those two clients but I've never tried them
03:22<snowyfox>But it's not a good idea to install an IRC client on a server, no..?
03:22<snowyfox>At least unnecessarily. But telnet is arguably more dangerous..
03:23<vv221>What would be the issue with IRC client on a server? I admit I did not overthink this ;)
03:23<snowyfox2>Thank you everyone for the info- reading things slowly now..
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03:23<vv221>(it’s a at home server, and happens to be my everyday computer too)
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03:25<rudi_s>Running IRC clients on a server is not an issue. In fact, almost all IRC clients (or bouncers) are running on a server so you don't disconnect when you're not online.
03:26<rudi_s>And telnet is not dangerous, it's just not encrypted/authenticated which means it's insecure to use for sensitive data.
03:26<rudi_s>Sure, but telnet (as in the command, which is basically like nc in this case) is not enough for IRC.
03:26<snowyfox2>I mean more like, the make arbitrary connections to anything part.
03:27<snowyfox2>nc.. so many package names.. abbaba..
03:27<rudi_s>snowyfox2: So? Any program can do that. It's just a TCP connection. You can do it with nc, telnet (although telnet, the protocol, is different), etc.
03:28<rudi_s>It's just outgoing, so nobody can connect to the server.
03:28<snowyfox2>Mm, that's the case.. it's safe then, maybe I should set one up..
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03:42<snowyfox2>okay I'm ready to have coffee now..!
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03:42<snowyfox2>I think if I turn off power management in KDE it won't go to sleep
03:42<snowyfox2>So I don't have to write that IRC client today
03:43<snowyfox2>Learned more things today.. I am closer to old computing sage :v
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04:59<Tom>Hi, Bonjour,
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05:00<Tom>Some one speak French, here ?
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05:00<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. -
05:00<Tom>Thanks !
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05:08<Tom>Hi, I need help to show / un-hide desktop icons. By default, I've see an picture at startup. But when I've saved any document in my Desktop folder, I would like to see this icon on my desktop, at startup. Can you help me ?
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05:11<Tom>Someone help me ?
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05:12<jm_>you need to provide more details, which desktop etc.
05:14<Tom>It's a fresh/new install of debian, I think I use Gnome, sorry, it's Gnome 3.30.2 and Debian 10 (buster).
05:15<Tom>I think it's up to date
05:17<Tom>When I navigate in Settings, it's poor and I dont know where is the right button
05:17<jm_>sorry I never used gnome, but no doubt someone else can help, just wait till they reply
05:18<Tom>Ok, thanks.
05:21<Tom>Hi, someone can help me with GNOME 3.30.2 and Debian 10 buster ?
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05:54<Tom>It's good for me. I've an answer. Thanks.
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06:17<kapouer>hi, is an autopkgtest failure a policy violation, but which ?
06:18<bremner>kapouer: this seems like the wrong channel for that question, try #debian-mentors
06:18<kapouer>oops right
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08:21<stuff>What will happen if I unplug the boot drive?
08:23<stuff>while the system is running?
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08:23<selckin>same thing when you uplug the electricity
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08:23<stuff>does it just
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08:23<stuff>shut down?
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08:23<sirmanuel>hi guyes, I cannot mount my cdrom unit, it doesn't appear in fstab
08:24<selckin>just spew a lot of errors probably, but should run, was thinknig in term of data corruption on the drive
08:24<stuff>its an SD card, not much to lose
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08:27<sirmanuel>I followed an instruction of internet wih wodin
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08:37<quazgar>cdrom etc. should be handled by the desktop environment for most use cases.
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08:42<jm_>wodim is a cd burning app, why would you use that to mount a cd?
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09:01<sirmanuel>hi guys
09:01<sirmanuel>what means this
09:01<sirmanuel>i cannot mount my cdrom unit
09:01<selckin>that you're from italy
09:03<vdamewood>Uh, no. Venezuela.
09:03<selckin>says it doens't know the filesystem type
09:04<vdamewood>sirmanuel: How are you mounting the CD?
09:04<sirmanuel>mount /dev/sr0 -t iso9660 -r /mnt/cdrom0
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09:06<vdamewood>what do you get from this?: file /mnt/cdrom0
09:06<sirmanuel><vdamewood> mount /dev/sr0 -t iso9660 -r /mnt/cdrom0
09:06<sirmanuel>file /mnt/cdrom0
09:07<sirmanuel>it says is a directory
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09:10<vdamewood>sirmanuel: are you ure it's a CD and not a DVD or Blu Ray, and that its file system is iso9660?
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09:16<ottavio>Has anybody replaced their graphical file manager with mc (midnight commander)?
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09:17<selckin>tons of people in 1999
09:17<ottavio>Otherwise: does it make sense to use mc in a graphical environment?
09:17<sirmanuel>vdamewood i'm not sure what is because i wasnt to mount it o see what they cointained
09:17<ottavio>selckin: there was a lot of partying in 1999
09:18<selckin>ottavio: its just a personal preference, use what you like, for example, i just use a shell and nothing else
09:18<sirmanuel>i'm not sure what is because i want to mount it to see what they contained
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09:18<vdamewood>1999 Makes me feel all slinky.
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09:19<vdamewood>sirmanuel: try ufs instead of iso9660
09:20<ottavio>selckin: I use nemo and it's slow as hell.
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09:21<sirmanuel><vdamewood> it's the same
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09:21<vdamewood>sirmanuel: i'm out of options.
09:22<sirmanuel>thank you
09:22<vdamewood>No problem.
09:23<sirmanuel>i'm going to try from a usblive with other os
09:24<aloo_shu>for clarifiation, sirmanuel 's error is not saying wrong filesystem - it's saying wrong filesystem OR bad option OR bad superblock OR missig codepage OR missing helper program, it could be a typo (9960?)
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09:28<aloo_shu>or mount being broken in some way? in any case, the error msg could be mount failing to execute the command just as well as finding a block device it cannot read
09:28<Cranky_Franky>Hello everyone, how are you? New Debian user here!
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09:32<aloo_shu>sirmanuel: -r for instance is not necessary, and probably in the wrong place, try without -r, mount will say mounting read-only, because with iso9660, that's how it's meant to be
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09:33<bremner>Cranky_Franky: hi. This is a support channel, so feel free to ask support questions. For more general chat, you can try #debian-offtopic.
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09:34<Cranky_Franky>thanks very much, I have been using Debian for a couple days and I got it set up just the way I want, I like it very much so far.
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09:36<aloo_shu>sirmanuel: this mount [-fnrsvw] [-t fstype] [-o options] device dir is the syntax given by man mount for this type of invocation, try using that order instead of squeezing -r between device and dir, and see if that's better
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09:40<Cranky_Franky>I have one question, now that I have installed Debian 10 (buster), I see that Debian 11 will be released soon, what is the process to upgrade to the next stable edition once that happens? Just update the package repositories and run apt-get upgrade?
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09:42<vv221[BI]>Cranky_Franky, that's the "ideal" situation, that would work on a very minimal Debian.
09:42<vv221[BI]>But it's much better to follow the upgrades notes.
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09:42<vv221[BI]>(I'm looking for the URL…)
09:42<amacater>Cranky_Franky: As I think I wrote yesterday: Use Google to find the release notes.
09:43<amacater>Change the sources list - noting that the bullseye URL for security updates has changed.
09:43<Cranky_Franky>thanks, I will do that, sorry if it is a silly question I am relatively new to linux
09:43<Cranky_Franky>awesome thanks very much, so it is just as simple as updating the sources? almost too easy haha
09:43<amacater>Do an apt-get update - to pull in the new list of available packages
09:43<Cranky_Franky>makes sense
09:43<amacater>Do an apt-get upgrade - to upgrade services that will upgrade with not to many problems
09:44<amacater>Do an apt-get dist-upgrade - to do the other packages
09:44<vv221[BI]>The table of contents on the upgrade notes might look impressive, but it's only because it is very detailed. The actual page content is quite short.
09:44<amacater>Reboot to use the new 5.10 kernel
09:44<amacater>apt-get autoremove to remove anything that is no longe rneeded
09:44<Cranky_Franky>I assume I wont run into too many problems since I really haven't installed anything not within deb 10
09:45<amacater>That makes it a lot easier :)
09:45<Cranky_Franky>I know some people seem to work around it by using flatpaks etc but I haven't done that
09:45<Cranky_Franky>the base deb 10 is working just fine for me :)
09:46<amacater>The one step I forgot - _before_ you change the sources.list in /etc/apt/sources.list - do one final Debian 10 update to make sure you're absolutely up to date.
09:46<Cranky_Franky>I will probably wait for the formal release though before upgrading since I am still getting my feet wet
09:46<Cranky_Franky>good point, i will do that
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09:47<amacater>As it happens, there's likely to be a further point release for Bullseye an RC3 - third iteration of Release Candidate for the installer _before_ August 14th.
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09:47<Cranky_Franky>oh I see
09:47<Cranky_Franky>in the future i would like to get involved with contributing to debian
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09:47<Cranky_Franky>i'm not an expert but interested in learning and helping a bit
09:48<amacater>Always good - ask questions on debian-user mailing list, check in for things that need help or, if you plan on packaging or similar, you can always ask in debian-mentors mailing list. Welcome :D
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09:49<stuff>the taskbar disappeared and i could still move the mouse, the data on it seems fine
09:50<stuff>Is there anything w
09:50<Cranky_Franky>yes I read some documents about getting started helping out a developer/mentor, i think i will do that
09:51<stuff>Is there something wrong with kexec if it makes the display fill with weird noise
09:51<Cranky_Franky>is there a debian mentors irc channel?
09:52<Cranky_Franky>ah nm just found it #debian-mentors :P
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10:41<mason>What praytell is the "aptitude reference manual" if not the man page? The man page says to look at the "Search Patterns" section repeatedly, but there isn't one in the man page.
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10:42<vv221>mason, this is probably refering to file:///usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/index.html
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10:42<vv221>Search patterns would be file:///usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/ch02s04.html
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10:43<vv221>And the handy reference: file:///usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/ch02s04s05.html
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10:44<mason>vv221: Ah, thank you. I don't have those installed, as it turns out, so I'll dig around a bit and find out why.
10:45<mason>Maybe the README extant will have a pointer to more.
10:46<vv221>mason, you might be missing some package like "aptitude-doc"
10:46<vv221>Here I have both aptitude-doc-en and aptitude-doc-fr, so it seems to be a package per language.
10:46<mason>vv221: That was it.
10:47<mason>aptitude-doc itself is virtual so it told me to pick one
10:47<mason>Thank you.
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10:48<jhutchins>I believe aptitude is no longer installed by default.
10:49<vv221>I don’t remember any time when it was installed by default.
10:49<vv221>But I’ve not tried all stable Debian versions instaled from scratch.
10:49<jhutchins>I do.
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11:27<Konomi>how long ago was that ;p
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11:36<jhutchins>I think I started with lenny. I've always used aptitude out of habit, but lately I use apt out of laziness.
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11:37<Konomi>I think my first debian was stretch and I think it wasn't default then
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11:38<jhutchins>Er, not stretch, lenny. (Where did that come from?)
11:39<sney>aptitude was installed and recommended as the default for squeeze, it was in the ig and the release notes and so on
11:39<vv221>Oh, that might be how I missed it.
11:39<sney>I'm not sure what changed that but it did tend to be kind of slow on the hardware of the time
11:39<vv221>I probably switched from Lenny to Sid, and stayed on Sid since then.
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11:40<sney>well, you would have had the squeeze-as-testing experience on sid at that point, so aptitude was most likely on your system, but maybe you never noticed it
11:40<vv221>And I might not have had an opportunity to install a fresh stable Debian until this change was reverted.
11:40<Konomi>honestly I can't live without the search terms that aptitude provides, just lets me select packages with far more detail than apt can
11:41<Konomi>I barely ever touch apt
11:41<vv221>aptitude is actually always on my systems, but I’m almost sure I always installed it manually on top of minimal setups not including it.
11:41<vv221>But I only use it as a user-side query tool, every real action on the packages system I handle with apt (apt-get before that).
11:42<mentor>I never had to deal with a time before apt, but only just
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11:43<Konomi>I hope that apt and aptitude get merged one day somehow ;p
11:44<sney>apt currently supports some aptitude flags, so that might actually be happening
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11:47<vv221>To be fair, I would not be very happy to see aptitude sluggishness with apt ;)
11:47<vv221>I quite like that we have distinct tools.
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11:56<amacater>dpkg -i / dselect :)
11:56*dpkg installs / dselect :) into amacater's head with a bone saw and a few screws
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11:56<mentor>amacater: :)
11:57<mason>jhutchins: aptitude isn't my first choice here - I've just not seen another way to get package names based on priority so far.
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11:58<mason>I found myself needing that facility and then guessing at syntax based on examples, and I hate the notion of guessing at syntax when it's documented somewhere.
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12:04<mason>I'm curious if there are recommended ways to dig out lists of available packages with various priorities.
12:05<mason>Ah, dpkg-query
12:06<mason>although that might not show uninstalled packages
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12:09<mason>dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Priority}\n' | awk '/required$|important$|standard$/ {print $1}'
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12:25<mason>ah, that's only installed packages after all
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13:41<shine437>this is my first message
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13:41<Sqrt{not}>welcome shine437
13:42<shine437>I'm quit now.
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13:52<urk>Would someone have some advice on how to give permissions to an external drive hooked up with a usb? The documents folder has a big red "X" on it, and hasn't responded to some of the chmod commands I used. Found some posts online, and wondering if they are relevant to what I am trying to do. One of them said to use the following command sudo mount -o remount,uid=1000,gid=1000,rw /dev/sda1 and I found the post at
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13:53<blast007>what filesystem is the partition on the external drive?
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13:58<keycollector>Does lsblk replace fdisk for the most part? Its "newer" right?
13:58<Sqrt{not}>urk (also better to use command line tools, than graphical documents folder type tools)
14:00<urk>Sqrt{not}: Isn't sudo mount -o remount,uid=1000,gid=1000,rw /dev/sdc1 a command line tool?
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14:00<grove>keycollector: As far as I can see from a quick look on the manpage of lsblk, it can't change the partition table of disks, so I would say: No, it doesn't replace fdisk
14:02<urk>Incidentally the external drive was used to make backups with an older Macbook Pro.
14:02<grove>Technically that's a command, `mount` is the (command line) tool,
14:02<towo`>urk, again, which filesystem?
14:02<urk>towo: My laptop is running Debian Linux stable.
14:02<grove>Then macos might have put some weird apple fs on it
14:03<towo`>urk, that was not the question
14:03<towo`>[19:53:55] <blast007> what filesystem is the partition on the external drive?
14:03<sney>keycollector: parted has somewhat replaced fdisk, though they're both still useful for getting information about disks and partitions, since they show different details by default
14:03<grove>(Debian) Linux supports a lot of filesystems
14:04<sney>it's probably vfat and the permissions need to be changed on the mountpoint
14:05<Sqrt{not}>lsblk and/or fdisk might be able to tell what filesystem it is
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14:06<urk>Ext 4
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14:07<urk>I don't know about the file system of the external drive, but it was used for a Macbook Pro.
14:08<Sqrt{not}>??? what is ext 4 then ? t
14:08<Sqrt{not}>not the external drive? i don't understand
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14:12<blast007>urk: check the output of 'sudo fdisk -l' to see what the filesystem is.
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14:16<urk>sda1 is EFI System, and sda2 is Apple HFS/HFS+
14:16<kwilczynski>urk: Was this used with TimeMachine?
14:17<urk>kwilczynski: most likely
14:17<kwilczynski>urk: To read HFS on Linux, you need to make some extra provisions, unless you already have.
14:18<urk>kwilczynski: such as?
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14:19<kwilczynski>urk: You might need to install and then once you have this, attempt to mount your parition form the USB drive.
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14:20<bremner>from buster rather than stretch, I guess?
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14:20<kwilczynski>urk: Mind you, you might not be able to mount this as user, as Darwin uses UNIX permission model too, and if you don't have a similar user with UID/GID that match, then you will not be able to access the files there. Unless hfsplus provides some mount options to resolve this issue.
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14:20<kwilczynski>bremner: Whatever. I just wanted a package name.
14:21<urk>sudo ok. hfsprogs is installed
14:21<kwilczynski>urk: Generally, Google for how to mount HFS on Linux.
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14:23<mason>For anyone following the priority-search thing I was onto earlier, here's the current iteration: apt-cache dumpavail | perl -00 -ne '(/^Package: (.*)/m && print "$1\n") if /^Priority: (?:required|important|standard)/m'
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14:23<grove>It worked in this case, but fdisk is NOT a good tool to see what fs is on a partition. It just checks the partition type value in the partition table, and Linux has no problem with that not matching the actual filesystem used
14:24<urk>kwilczynski: will installing hfsprogs affect my ability to see other non-Apple drives?
14:24<urk>I just plugged in a hard drive with a hard drive enclosure and it isn't showing up at all.
14:24<kwilczynski>No, it won't.
14:24<kwilczynski>Why would it?
14:25<urk>Just curious
14:25<kwilczynski>These are just userspace tools in a case you need to do something i.e., run fsck over the partition etc.
14:26<kwilczynski>hfsplus is already in the upstream kernel, and should work for you already.
14:27<kwilczynski>urk: The permissions you might have to fix by hand with chmod -R to your user, unfortunately.
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14:30<grove>(a dvb-c box I once had, had a serious problem with it, if I formatted an external disk from that device it made an NTFS that worked on that box, but was more or less read-only on my Linux (that was the level of NTFS support in Linux back then). If I made a (V)FAT on that disk it worked fine on Linux and somewhat on the box - it helped a lot when I thought to change the fs value in the ...
14:30<grove>... partition table
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14:41<urk> /dev/nvme0n1p1 at the end of this is highlighted in yellow. Drive doesn't show up at all on desktop but is visible when running ls /dev/drive-name
14:42<urk>I have the drive hooked up with a hard drive enclosure. I couldn't ssh into the computer because of a password problem.
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14:44<urk>Any thoughts on how to see the contents of this hard drive? /dev/nvme0n1p4 is the root drive.
14:45<bubble9986>im trying to install debian on a machine with a realtek rtl8125-CG 2.5G lan controller and
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14:45<sarnold>urk: the usual approach is to mount it on a directory
14:45<bubble9986>i have the firmware tar.gz on my flash drive with all the packages in the root but it still doesnt work
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14:45<urk>sarnold: Is this a directory I create on my existing laptop?
14:45<bubble9986>i searched the package archive for realtek but its the same package in the archive
14:46<sarnold>urk: yeah; depending upon what you want to do with it, that will suggest what directory to use; you could make /mnt/external if it is always external, or /mnt/foo if this is something you'll be doing once..
14:47<jmcnaught>/dev/nvme0n1p4 does not sounds like an external drive
14:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 981] by debhelper
14:49<sarnold>indeed, but I figured usb3 / thunderbolt things put the PCIe bus outside the computer these days, maybe this is the same thing
14:49<jmcnaught>urk: /dev/nvme0n1 looks like your laptop's internal NVMe SSD
14:50<urk>jmcnaught: How do I know for sure?
14:50<urk>jmcnaught: hard drive is not showing up on my desktop which raises some concern.
14:51<jmcnaught>urk: is there any more output from "fdisk -l" or did you show it all? It would show more than one drive if you had a second drive plugged in
14:51<urk>I showed it all.
14:52<bubble9986>theres an os installed on that drive
14:52<urk>jmcnaught: I didn't think it was my internal drive because there are so many partitions.
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14:52<urk>bubble9986: Yes, Debian Linux, but it was setup with dual boot.
14:52<jmcnaught>urk: it is only showing one drive (with multiple partitions). If you had a second drive plugged in, it would show that too.
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14:53<urk>I think you rae right because the drive is a Seagate, and fdisk -l only identifies Micron.
14:53<urk>Maybe the drive is dead?
14:53<jmcnaught>urk: I would run "journalctl -f" (as root) and then unplug the external drive, plug it back in, and watch for the messages from the journal
14:54<bubble9986>also that's the swap partition
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14:55<Sqrt{not}>bubble9986, which installer image are you using for your install?
14:56<bubble9986>the latest one, the amd64 netinstall 10.10
14:56<bubble9986>i also tried the one with the firmware
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14:56<urk>jmcnaught: Something seems to be detected
14:57<bubble9986>Sqrt{not}: it gets to a screen that says "it seems your kernel is a different version, do you want to continue without loading modules?" or something like that
14:58<jmcnaught>urk: the last message before your ^C indicates that the external drive is /dev/sda
14:58<jmcnaught>urk: does "lsblk" show anything about /dev/sda?
14:59<urk>jmcnaught: lsblk does not show anything about /dev/sda
15:01<Sqrt{not}>[11:16:18] <urk> sda1 is EFI System, and sda2 is Apple HFS/HFS+
15:01<jmcnaught>urk: lsblk leaves off the /dev/ prefix, it would just list it as "sda"
15:02<urk>Sqrt{not}: This definitely didn't come from an Apple system, but I seem to recall that Gigabyte was using something with EFI in this time frame.
15:03<urk>Sqrt{not}: Except for the first partition, all other partitions have a Linux file system.
15:04<urk>jmcnaught: This is one of the drives that came out of the computer that I was trying to connect to with SSH last night.
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15:04<jmcnaught>urk: "all other partitions have a Linux file system" you mean /dev/sda1 /dev/sda2 etc? Not /dev/nvme0n1p1 etc?
15:04<urk>My recollection is that this computer was a dual boot system that booted into Debian, Centos, etc.
15:05<jmcnaught>I would not discount the possibility of partitions on this external drive having the wrong labels.
15:05<urk>jmcnaught: This is how it shows up with fdisk -l
15:07<jmcnaught>urk: again, /dev/nvme0n1 and its partitions are your *internal* SSD
15:07<urk>jmcnaught: How do I see the contents of sda?
15:07<urk>Also wondering why the drive doesn't show up on my desktop, but is detected with journalctl
15:08<jmcnaught>urk: it did show up on the desktop at one point though? You mentioned /dev/sda1 earlier.
15:08<bubble9986>it should show up in lsblk
15:09<urk>jmcnaught: No, it has never shown up on the desktop, and is only detected with journal ctl. The SDA is mentioned in the last line of the journalctl output.
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15:09<bubble9986>or ls /dev
15:10<urk>bubble9986: sda shows up after doing an ls /dev
15:11<bubble9986>does it show any partitions like sda1 sda2
15:12<bubble9986>what happens if you do fdisk -l /dev/sda
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15:13<urk>fbubble9986: I get an error message indicating "cannot open /dev/sda: No medium found
15:14<jmcnaught>urk: perhaps the HDD was not correctly connected to the inside of the enclosure?
15:15<urk>jmcnaught: I have unplugged, and replugged it in a few times, and no change.
15:15<sarnold>try different power cable? different sata cable?
15:16<urk>sarnold: I am using a brand new hard drive enclosure that is hooked up to a Dell XPS 7590
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15:16<urk>One option would be to put the drive back in the computer, and try another drive.
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15:17<urk>Hard drive enclosure does work with another drive that is a little newer in the 2013 vintage. This drive is quite an old Seagate drive.
15:17<urk>But worked the last time the computer was used.
15:17<bubble9986>does it work in another computer
15:18<urk>It did work in the computer that I couldn't ssh into, but don't have a monitor to boot up.
15:18<urk>Couldn't ssh due to a password problem.
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15:19<urk>I'm going to step away for a couple of minutes, return this drive to the computer, and unhook another drive.
15:20<bubble9986>anyway i came for support myself lol
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15:21<bubble9986>i cant install debian with my network card even with firmware packages on an external drive
15:21<jmcnaught>bubble9986: did you check which kernel version added support for your network card? Maybe 4.19 is too old.
15:21<bubble9986>how do i check
15:21<sarnold>bubble9986: did dmesg tell you what firmware file the kernel was looking for, and where it was looking for it/
15:22<bubble9986>idk i never got to a shell
15:24<sarnold>ohhh no
15:24<jmcnaught>bubble9986: Google seems to suggest that support was added for that NIC in Linux 5.9 but I would doublecheck
15:25<bubble9986>is there a way to download a debian installer with a later kernel
15:25<bubble9986>i know theres unstable but you cant change to it until after you install
15:25<sney>at this point you may as well install bullseye, it's supposed to be released in 2 weeks
15:26<sney> for iso links
15:28<jmcnaught>bubble9986: Debian 10 installers are only available with Linux 4.19. Personally I would consider bullseye/testing as sney suggested, but another option is to install without networking and use a USB stick to copy kernel and firmware packages from buster-backports.
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15:34<urk>I put in the 2 TB Samsung drive from the other computer, and it is detected, but having problems getting it mounted.
15:35<jhutchins>What does "having problems" mean?
15:35<jhutchins>urk: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
15:37<urk>jhutchins: I ran sudo mount /dev/sda1 and also ran just mount. sda1 doesn't show up when running just mount.
15:38<sarnold>running a bare 'mount' prints a formatted version of /proc/mounts
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15:38<sarnold>running 'mount /dev/sda1/ will look in your /etc/fstab to figure out where to mount that block device -- if you don't have an entry for it, it won't do anything useful
15:38<sarnold>something like 'mkdir /mnt/foo ; mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/foo' will mount it without needing an fstab entry
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15:43<urk>Well I found the data I wanted.
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15:47<urk>Folders in the hard drive enclosure are not editable. Is there a way to change this?
15:48<bubble9986>did you try as root
15:48<jmcnaught>urk: it might be better to leave them read-only and make copies on another drive, like your laptop's internal storage.
15:48<bubble9986>thats true
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15:50<scorpion2185[m]>`autologin-session=gnome-xorg.desktop` this doesn't work
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15:53<jhutchins>!doesn't work
15:53<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
15:54<scorpion2185[m]>lightdm doesn't start , I did an autologin with GNOME on xorg attempt, before autologin was fine
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15:55<amacater>Which Debian version?
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15:59<blast007>urk: why would sda1 mount anything? it's an EFI partition. The stuff you want would be on sda2.
16:00<amacater>scorpion2185[m] : Have you tried not using GNOME on xorg but GNOME on Wayland?
16:01<urk>blast007: sda is not an EFI partition.
16:01<urk>Its ext4
16:01<scorpion2185[m]>I would like on xorg or at least NOT on wayland , instead of autologin I got login screen there I can start on xorg
16:01<urk>blast007: Drive inside my laptop has /boot/efi on the first partition.
16:02<blast007>urk: < urk> sda1 is EFI System, and sda2 is Apple HFS/HFS+
16:02<amacater>OK - so you're tryingg to force an autologin so that you don't need to type username / password
16:02<urk>blast007: sda1 is not EFI.
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16:02<urk>Its Ext4
16:02<blast007>you SAID it was though
16:02<urk>And its mounted
16:02<jmcnaught>urk: he swapped drives at one point you may have missed that
16:03<jmcnaught>blast007: ^ sorry that was for you
16:03<urk>Earlier I had an apple backup drive on here, but since swapped drives. I was trying to retrieve some data.
16:04<urk>This Debian paste is for my internal Dell laptop drive only.
16:04<scorpion2185[m]>amacater: yes, `[+2.15s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Can't find session 'gnome-xorg.desktop'` lightdm log
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16:06<jmcnaught>scorpion2185[m]: you have the gnome-session package installed?
16:07<scorpion2185[m]>yes I also check that file in usr/share/somthing (?)
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16:08<scorpion2185[m]>what is the right value for `autologin-session=*` so?
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16:09<scorpion2185[m]>`[+2.15s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Failed to find session configuration gnome-xorg.desktop` error before the other error
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16:11<jmcnaught>scorpion2185[m]: what file are you putting that autologin-session= directive into?
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16:11<keycollector>"Fatal error: failed to mount FUSE fs: fusermount: exec: "fusermount": executable file not found in $PATH" Is fusermount not a command in debian 11 ?
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16:15<blast007>keycollector: do you have fuse or fuse3 installed?
16:16<blast007>then you should have /bin/fusermount
16:17<keycollector>ahh, i did not even think this was something that needed installed, though it was system default. Gotcha, thats it then. Thanks!
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16:29<Sqrt{not}>scorpion2185[m], are you trying to do this autologin as root?
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18:03<himesama>i'd like to remove java just to keep the system trim. if i remove say openjdk-8-jre-headless gcj-6-jre gcj-6-jre-headless gcj-6-jre-lib gcj-jre gcj-jre-headless libgcj-common libgcj17 libgcj17-awt then what is suggested to further remove is some more java stuf (good) and a few bits and pieces of libreoffice that idk if htey re needed or not. any cloue if such things are needed. (examples ca-certificates-java* d
18:03<himesama>efault-jre* default-jre-headless* libreoffice-nlpsolver* libreoffice-script-provider-bsh* libreoffice-script-provider-js* openjdk-8-jre* openjdk-8-jre-headless*)
18:04<vv221>To check if a package is needed by something currently installed: aptitude why the-package-name
18:04<vv221>(no need to be root for this command)
18:04<sarnold>himesama: check apt-cache show libreoffice-nlpsolver and apt-cache show libreoffice-script-provider-bsh --- if those sound like things you use, probably don't remove it :)
18:04<sarnold>himesama: my guess is that if you're asking what those packages do then you probably wouldn't miss them if they were gone
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18:05<sarnold>himesama: oh, apt-cache show libreoffice-script-provider-js as well. same thing, you're probably not using it..
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18:10<himesama>sarnold: i use libreoffice like once per year or so to show something other tools cannot display. so maybe i can get rid of java. hmm.
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18:16<mason>Anyone know offhand how to manage efivars in virt-manager/libvirt? On reboot, my VM doesn't have any efivars set, so I have to navigate to the grub efi and launch it manually. I'm assuming there's a way to say "here, store these efi variables on the host" but it's not emerging readily.
18:17<mason>This is with ovmf.
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18:30<himesama>when i try removing openjdk-8-jre-headless it wants to install another java (gcj)
18:31<sney>himesama: something probably depends on default-jre
18:31<himesama>aptitude why says libreoffice-script-provider-js
18:32<himesama>so i include that on the purge line maybe
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18:34<sney>yes, it looks like you can remove that libreoffice package without disrupting the rest of the office suite
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18:35<mason>himesama: You can do tricky things like --no-install-recommends on removals, and things like apt --no-install-recommends purge foo bar- where bar is the thing it's offering to install instead.
18:35<jhutchins>himesama: Obviously you have programs that rely on java and a java environment. Unless you want to track them all down and remove them one by one, why not just leave java alone. Disk space is cheap these days.
18:35<mason>The more you specify about the overall situation at one time the easier it is for the software to resolve.
18:36<vv221>Ouch, `apt remove --no-install-recommends` is not really an intuitive one ;)
18:37<mason>vv221: Yeah, turns out you can do batches of install-and-remove together, purging, suppressing suggested replacements, etc.
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18:38<mason>There are things where if you don't do them all at once it's nightmarish, but if you do it in one go, it all just works smoothly.
18:38<sarnold>but constructing that one command line can take some doing :)
18:39<mason>No harder than writing poetry.
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18:39<vv221>mason, I knew about the `apt remove package+` and other `apt install package-`, but would not have thought of combining --no-install-* with remove.
18:40<mason>vv221: Debian tools are amazing that way.
18:40<vv221>(well, both --no-install-* are defaults in my apt.conf anyway)
18:40<mason>Ah, I don't do that because it's bitten me in the past. Stuff I don't think about and I don't end up missing it until I'm using something that would have made use of the missing package.
18:40<sarnold>Oh freddled grub2, Thy micturations are to me ...
18:41*alex11 tries to gnaw off his leg
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18:41<mason>I've beaten GRUB into shape, more or less. Debian still lack's Ubuntu's really elegant grub-efi-amd64 multiple ESP handling, but it can be faked out with grub-install --efi-directory=
18:42<vv221>mason, to mitigate I tend to explicitely pass --install-recommends when installing some new software I’m trying for the first time.
18:42<mason>That works.
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18:54<mason>Hrm, re: the efivar thing, frobbing it a bit (changing order spuriously) seems to have convinced OVMF to look at the file that stores the efivars persistently.
18:55<mason>...which is /var/lib/libvirt/qemu/nvram/thisvm_VARS.fd fwiw
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18:58<sarnold>oh interesting
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19:00<bubble9986>ok i installed debian
19:00<bubble9986>but boot stops at loading a file called "iwl-config-yoyo.bin"
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19:00<bubble9986>with testing
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19:01<sney>bubble9986: that's a red herring, that file isn't needed and is not available anyway.
19:01<sney>it may be trying to set a video mode that isn't supported by your gpu or your screen, do you have a gpu that needs firmware and is it installed?
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19:01<bubble9986>im using nvidia gt 1030
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19:02<bubble9986>but wouldnt it install that from the firmware pack that you put on a flash drive?
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19:02<sney>depends, which "firmware pack" are you referring to?
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19:03<bubble9986>the one they link to in the install faq
19:03<bubble9986>its also somewhere on the downloads page i think just called "firmware.tar.gz"
19:03<sney>ok, yes, normally the nouveau firmware would be included in that tarball
19:04<sney>did you select a desktop environment in the installer?
19:04<bubble9986>i also tried booting with the recovery mode kernel and it didnt work either
19:05<sney>how far did recovery mode get?
19:05<bubble9986>it got farther but stopped at fb0: switching to nouveau fb or something
19:06<sney>ok, that does sound like nouveau issues, try booting with 'nomodeset' added to the end of the grub command line and see if you get a login prompt
19:06<bubble9986>i shall return
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19:14<urk>I am wondering how to change file permissions on an extermal Mac drive? I have switched hats again, and determined that I needed data off of both the computer I tried to SSH to as well as the external backup drive.
19:15<urk>I have already installed the hsprogs or something like that someone told me about earlier today.
19:15<sney>if it's a one time recovery, just access it as root and don't bother with the permissions
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19:16<sney>rsync the contents to some other volume, chown them there, then do whatever you need after
19:16<urk>sney: I am root, and there is a big red "X" over each of the folders on the drive.
19:17<sney>don't use a gui tool, rsync the contents to some other volume, chown them there, then do whatever you need after
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19:21<urk>sney: I will likely need to copy some of the data on to my existing laptop.
19:21<dpkg>A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at and packaged for Debian as debian-refcard. See also <grounding>, <vim refcard>.
19:21<sney>if you're not familiar with navigating files from the command line, most of what you need is in this, under 'important shell commands'.
19:22<sney>replace the .en with your language code as necessary
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19:24<EmleyMoor>Has something broken en FreeNode?
19:24<sney>to say the least
19:24<sarnold>everything, yes; freenode imploded
19:25<sney>whatever channel you're looking for, it's probably on now. and if you had a freenode account from before May 2021, it has been deleted.
19:25<urk>EmleyMoor: Freenoode's future is in its past. The network was hit by a dark cursor coming from Korea
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19:25<bubble9986>im here in irssi on my text mode tty
19:25<sarnold>hah 'dark cursor'
19:25<sney>there's a lot more colorful information about the freenode sitch available on the googles, please keep #debian to debian support.
19:26<urk>They say that looking at Freenode now is the same as the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Use the network and you might turn to stone.
19:26<EmleyMoor>urk: OK, thanks. I'll investigate and see what's what tomorrow.
19:26<urk>EmleyMoor: Everything you need to know is on LiberaChat, OFTC, or Dalnet
19:26<sney>bubble9986: does that mean nomodeset got you a login prompt?
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19:27<urk>Freenode is gone as we know it, and for all practical intent is out of business.
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19:27<sney>urk: please keep #debian to debian support. if you want to ramble about freenode, there are other channels for that.
19:28<sarnold>sney: that's a handy refcard, thanks
19:28<bubble9986>i tried installing xorg and i3 but i never got any gpu driver
19:28<sney>bubble9986: is 'firmware-misc-nonfree' installed? apt list firmware-misc-nonfree and see if it says [installed]
19:28<sney>sarnold: np, I keep it open in a tab always
19:29<bubble9986>yeah its there
19:30<bubble9986>long live irc
19:30<sney>hm, I suppose nouveau is missing support for your gpu. the nvidia binary driver will probably work, if you don't mind non-free software.
19:30<bubble9986>i already had to install non-free software for my network card anyway
19:31<urk>sney: I see how to transfer the files with rsync, but not look at them. Am I missing something?
19:32<sney>bubble9986: ok, then make sure your /etc/apt/sources.list has 'contrib non-free' at the end of your debian mirror entries, 'apt update', and 'apt install linux-headers-amd64 nvidia-driver'. it will download and compile the nvidia driver, then you just reboot and everything should be working
19:33<sarnold>urk: what does it mean to "look at a file"?
19:33<sney>urk: no, as I told you (twice), you should copy(rsync) the files from the HFS volume to some other volume, and then do what you need with them after.
19:33<sney>urk: linux support for HFS is not great, you will not be able to easily navigate that HFS disk like it's ext4 or vfat.
19:36<bubble9986>do people still use apt-get
19:36<sney>dpkg: apt vs apt-get
19:36<dpkg>apt is promoted over apt-get for interactive use. It uses fancy colors and has output format differences. It removes the .deb files that it downloads during an install or upgrade. It installs new packages during upgrades. apt-get has a stable command-line interface and is promoted for scripting.
19:36<urk>sney: My problem is that I don't know what to copy. Should I copy the whole folder?
19:36<sarnold>bubble9986: it took me five years but I usually use 'apt install' and 'apt purge' almost all the time :)
19:37<sney>urk: that is up to you, only you know what is important on that disk. you will just have to find out on your own.
19:37<sney>if you don't have enough space for the whole thing, then go directory by directory.
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19:38<urk>I suspect I have enough space. I'm on a 1 tb drive.
19:38<bubble9986>this all works automatically in archlinux and i don't know whether that means i should be scared of arch or proud
19:38<bubble9986>it seems like they dont care at all about free vs nonfree
19:39<bubble9986>there is no separate "non-free" repo
19:40<sarnold>debian takes the debian free software guidelines seriously
19:41<sarnold>I can appreciate that, but the amount of effort it takes to find the non-free install cd feels counter-productive to me
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19:42<sney>debian definitely needs to do *something* to make it more accessible, but having a distinct repo that you have to intentionally enable is still better than essentially forcing a new user to accept a eula that they've never heard of
19:42<sney>hm, and gone
19:44<sarnold>probably he'll be back
19:44<sney>yeah, this is likely the reboot after building nvidia dkms
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19:52<bubble9986>ok i made it
19:52<bubble9986>i installed debian
19:53<sarnold>bubble9986: woot
19:53<bubble9986>we did it boys
19:53<sney>!win bubble9986
19:53<dpkg>Congratulations, bubble9986! You have won a one way ticket to Rio de Janeiro!
19:53<sarnold>bubble9986: < sney> debian definitely needs to do *something* to make it more accessible, but having a distinct repo that you have to intentionally enable is still better than essentially forcing a new user to accept a eula that they've never heard of
19:54<bubble9986>also they only have firefox-esr
19:54<coc0nut>dpkg -e file.deb folderpath <- is this the scripts of everything a deb folder does?
19:54<dpkg>coc0nut: I think you lost me on that one
19:55<sney>coc0nut: roughly, the pre/postinst scripts will tell you what runs during package install
19:56<sney>bubble9986: yes, regular firefox moves too fast for debian to consider it stable. firefox-esr is frozen at 1 version (usually), and has current security support at that version
19:56<coc0nut>deb package*
19:57<bubble9986>when i install nvidia-driver it said i already have nouveau installed, do i have to uninstall nouveau so they dont conflict? i dont even know what the package is called
19:57<sney>bubble9986: nope, the nvidia-driver package disables nouveau automatically
19:58<sney>anyway, it's not removable, it's part of the linux kernel
19:58<bubble9986>so does that just mean my gpu doesnt work with nouveau
19:58<bubble9986>i didnt know it was part of the kernel
19:58<sney>that's what it seems like. I'm surprised, I thought a 1030 would be fine, but *shrug*
19:59<bubble9986>the chip shortage is hard
20:00<sney>there's a 1070 in this system, and I'm pretty sure nouveau worked (though I installed nvidia-driver anyway so I could play steam games)
20:00<bubble9986>oh yeah i gotta try that
20:01<bubble9986>is it ok to use unstable
20:01<sney>if you have to ask, I would say no
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20:01<bubble9986>i was using arch before which i imagine is the same thing
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20:02<sney>not exactly, arch is a rolling release that's always supposed to be usable. the only guarantee you have with any package in unstable is that it compiled on the maintainer's computer
20:02<sney>debian testing/unstable branches exist to develop the next stable release. there can be a lot of mess in that process.
20:03<sarnold>(I ran debian unstable for something like a dozen years with only two or three Big Problems, it mostly worked out okay)
20:03<sney>right, it's just a question of experience, and how familiar you are with the debian tools specifically
20:03<sarnold>.. and if you want to gain experience, or not :)
20:03<sney>even if I were (for instance) a fedora wizard, I wouldn't jump straight into sid without getting used to apt/dpkg first.
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20:06<jhutchins>It's also a matter of luck. Did you draw some problem hardware? Is the work you're doing with the system an edge case that crashes and burnes?
20:06<jhutchins>Just because _you_ dodged the bullet doesn't mean the danger isn't there.
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20:07<sarnold>true, I did not buy nvidia, and I went to some effort to get intel nics because they were really well supported ..
20:07<sney>plus, it's the 2020s, if you want to play around with breaking sid then do it to as many VMs as you feel like
20:09<urk>sney: Can I use rsync without options for this copying?
20:10<sney>urk: I don't know, can you? what happens when you try?
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20:15<jhutchins>urk: Most people recommend -a. If your computing power significantly exceeds your bandwitdh, you can add z for compression, and some people like v so they can see the progress.
20:16<jhutchins>urk: You should consult the man page to see what options are available and what they do.
20:16<sarnold>when two drives are connected to one computer, -z won't help anything :)
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20:16<jhutchins>... will in fact hurt performance.
20:17<sney>and -a might be detrimental, since the permissions on the source drive are apparently wack
20:17<sney>but this is all explained in the option summary of rsync(1)
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20:18<alex11>i'm wondering whether --update for recurring backups is a smart idea or not
20:18<alex11>whether it will keep what i want it to
20:18<sarnold>though as manpages go, rsync is definitely swimming in the deep end
20:18<alex11>i guess yes
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20:20<sney>I always page down through the long descriptions and only look at the examples/options
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20:23<jhutchins>I try to at least skim the long bits. That way I might have a problem and think "there was something in the man page that mentioned that".
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20:26<urk>jhutchins: These are the errors I received
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20:29<jhutchins>urk: If those are directories, your disk is trashed. If they're not, you should be able to fix your commands. Be aware of symlinks, although they usually behave.
20:29<jhutchins>urk: (Without the exact command you used that past is not really sufficient.)
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20:30<urk>jhutchins: What do you mean by the exact command used?
20:30<jmcnaught>urk: you don't prefix the device to the filesystem paths, it is not working because you added /dev/sda2 and /dev/nvme0n1p6 to the src and destination respectively.
20:30<sarnold>urk: /dev/nvme0n1p6 and /dev/sda2 are block device nodes -- they aren't mount points
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20:32<urk>sarnold: I don't have experience with rsync so could use some guidance.
20:35<Sqrt{not}>urk, have you mounted that external partition on a mount point?
20:36<Sqrt{not}>(and similarly is your internal partition sda2 *mounted* on some mount point?)
20:36<urk>Sqrt{not}: External partition is mounted to /media/pdq/Samsung_T3
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20:38<Sqrt{not}>urk, then use that directory name in your rsync command, not /dev/whatever
20:39<urk>Sqrt{not}: What about the destination?
20:39<Sqrt{not}>wherever it is *mounted* not the /dev/name for it
20:40*enyc meows
20:41<urk>Sqrt{not}: I removed the block devices, and received an error message indicating it is skipping the directories
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20:42<sarnold>urk: that's because you forgot the -a -- but that might be for the best, since rsync is very picky about the trailing slashes on the source and destination both
20:42<sarnold>urk: try: rsync -a /media/pdq/Samsung_T3/a123/ /home/pdq/Documents/Mac/
20:45<urk>sarnold: Ok it looks like a bunch of stuff copied over. However, all of the folders have a big red "X" on them.
20:46<sarnold>urk: sorry, I don't know any of the gui tools, I'm not sure what that indicates
20:46<urk>sarnold: I'm not using a gui tool. I copied everything at the command line.
20:47<sarnold>urk: I've never seen big red Xs on the command line, that's why I assumed you were using a gui
20:47<sarnold>urk: try: find /home/pdq/Documents/Mac -ls -- that'll give you a nice big listing of what's in that directory, and lower, and permissions
20:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 955] by debhelper
20:48<sarnold>I'm off for the night, have fun urk :)
20:48<urk>Big red "X" is on all of the folders that were copied from the Macbook backup drive to the /Documents/Mac/ on my laptop. Inside the Mac folder is a "Desktop" folder, "Documents" folder, etc, and all have a big red "X" on them.
20:49<Sqrt{not}>urk, *where* do you see a big red X ? use the command line, not some clicky graphical tool
20:50<Sqrt{not}>urk, use the command sarnold suggested, and look at the directory and file permissions, owners, and groups.
20:51<Sqrt{not}>(hint: the owner of the directories and files can *change* their permissions, and so can root)
20:51<urk>Sqrt{not}: Command line appears to indicate it is read and writable, but there is still a big red "X". Permisions that came back after running ls -l include drwxr-xr-x 12 99 99 4096 Mar 1 2017 Mac
20:52<Sqrt{not}>OK, what you show me is the permissions for *one* directory. keep going deeper
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20:52<Sqrt{not}>and urk, ls -l should also be showing you the owner name and group name for each item
20:54<dselect>For information on permissions, read «info coreutils 'File Permissions'», and . For further information, see and and follow the setuid and setgid links within. See also <ssh permissions>, <qotd232>.
20:54<jmcnaught>"99 99" appears to be the UID and GID
20:55<urk>Sqrt{not}: Permisions for the Documents folder inside the Mac folder seem to indicate it is read and writable, but it won't let me in
20:56<Sqrt{not}>urk, that subdirectory Documents is read,write, and modify -able only by its owner, which as jmcnaught points out is "99".
20:57<Sqrt{not}>urk, you should learn about file and directory permissions. we can't tell you how to do every single command in your quest.
20:57<himesama>my impression is that rsync per se cares about one of them but not the other, not true? i like to put slashes at end of both just so i don'thave to care. also there might be an issue with symlinked dirs affixed with / that applies to all commands (e.g. ls) that might or might not apply to rsync. -- 17:42 <sarnold> urk: that's because you forgot the -a -- but that might be for the best, since rsync is very picky ab
20:57<himesama>out the trailing slashes on the source and destination both
20:57<Sqrt{not}>urk, root can change those permissions, so that your user can read and write those files and directories.
20:59<Sqrt{not}>urk take a few minutes, and read some of the information that dselect linked above here, so you understand unix permissions better.
20:59<Sqrt{not}>urk, It will be much safer if you know what you are doing, for your own reasons, instead of just blindly typing in commands that us random people from the internet suggest to you.
21:00<Sqrt{not}>(I should have said " that subdirectory Documents is read,write, and search -able only by its owner"
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21:04<himesama>hint: basic permissions are rwx for the 3 categories. everything else is advanced (sticky bits etc, and then there are acls and xattrs which i think do not show up on normal ls listings).
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21:17<kmf58>hi all right now i test ctrl-alt-t on debian 10.1 on on a pc standart pc
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21:19<Sqrt{not}>kmf58, in what environment are you sending that input? what do you expect to happen?
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21:20<kmf58>i would like to open a terminal i am on gnome
21:20<kmf58>may be it's not the right comand
21:21<Sqrt{not}>kmf, try just a right click in the window, it should open a menu
21:22<kmf58>all comands changes it's a bit difficult
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21:24<kmf58>no no it's not a problem i nerver sheck that comand
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21:26<LtL>kmf58: press the left windows/super key, a search bar appears at the top of your screen, type 'terminal' you'll see a terminal icon, click it.
21:26<kmf58>i have install terminal and termit
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21:30<kmf58>ho yeah someone told me some days but it not possible to open a terminal window using the keyboard really??... :/
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21:33<LtL>kmf58: hover your mouse in the left upper corner of your screen, there is probably a terminal icon in a vertical, left side bar menu that appears. same thing happens with the super key.
21:33<jhutchins>kmf58: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
21:34<jhutchins>himesama: What do you expect that sequence to do? What application are you in when you issue it?
21:36<kmf58>i tryed ctrl+alt+T
21:37<kmf58>i tryed to open a terminal window
21:37<jhutchins>What did you expect to happen?
21:37<kmf58> it appen nothing
21:38<kmf58>i expect to open a terminal windiow
21:38<jhutchins>Ok, it's supposed to start a terminal session. It is unlikely to work outside of an existing terminal session.
21:39<raven523>maybe gnome expects something different like alt+f1
21:39<raven523>did you configure custom keyboard shortcuts for gnome?
21:40<kmf58>haha no it closes my session
21:40<raven523>you might have to configure ctrl+alt+t to be a shortcut
21:40<jhutchins>kmf58: Here are some 98 possible meanings of that command: - In MS word it generates a Trademark symbol.
21:41<kmf58>where is located this option
21:41<jmcnaught>kmf58: GNOME has no default shortcut for opening the terminal but you can create one in Settings
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21:42<kmf58>jmcnaught, ok thx all to explain me
21:42<jhutchins>I have createde a shortcut (Window-t) to open a terminal. Curiously, it does not work if I am in a terminal session.)
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21:44<jhutchins>Oops, new day, new rule, it works on buster.
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21:44<jmcnaught>It's GNOME so you can also just <super>Ter<enter>
21:45<jhutchins>Super would be Ctrl or Alt?
21:45<jmcnaught>windows key
21:45<raven523>the windows key
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21:46<jhutchins>(We can never use the actual key name...)
21:47<jmcnaught>Super is what GNOME calls the windows key.
21:48<raven523>I think X calls it tha
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23:01<snowyfox>mazey mazey..
23:01<snowyfox>I have some general questions about IRC
23:01<snowyfox>Where should I go for that..?
23:02<snowyfox>I tried #irc and ##irc here and in Libera Chat, no go..
23:02<snowyfox>There's the #oftc channel here but
23:02<snowyfox>is there a lounge room channel for Libera Chat..?
23:02<coc0nut>try a irc server provider... or #znc
23:03<snowyfox>a server provider&s channel..?
23:03<snowyfox>and the znc one is so big..
23:04<coc0nut>if inspircd has a irc channel or something
23:06<snowyfox>They have a channel on Libera Chat but ChanServ told me I should probably head for their own IRC network instead, with regards to inspircd..
23:06<snowyfox>Waiting for someone to respond on #znc now
23:06<snowyfox>i'll be patient..
23:07<coc0nut>on libera ?
23:07<mason>snowyfox: Give it a day. IRC can be slow but patience often pays off.
23:07<snowyfox>Mm. The one here doesn't have many people
23:07<snowyfox>The thing is, I don't have a bouncer, so I basically have never fished a response past half an hour
23:08<snowyfox>it's not a super big deal but
23:08<snowyfox>I'm a beginner to IRC
23:08<snowyfox>so, even though I know a bunch of names I'm not very skilled in getting around
23:09<coc0nut>can recommend a vps on linode or digitalocean in example. 5$ a day. quite easy to set up znc in a docker container
23:09<snowyfox>Literally, the most general-purpose channel I've seen so far was here #debian
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23:09<snowyfox>I don't really need a VPS (although, in a way, I do) since I have my own server
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23:09<coc0nut>5$ a month** lol
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23:09<snowyfox>I'm supposed to write a simple daemon for IRC for it, as a bouncer, but I won't be doing that anytime soon
23:10<coc0nut>you never know what curious people are in these opensource communitis so you should be carefull with your ip :p
23:10<snowyfox>Not to mention, the channel I want to subscribe to, maybe it's wiser for me to get SSL so maybe I should use a client after all..
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23:10<snowyfox>I'd be afraid of being portscanned, but the botnet keeps attacking my server and they haven't gone in yet so I'm.. just going to trust I'll be ok
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 31 00:00:34 2021