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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-02

---Logopened Mon Aug 02 00:00:36 2021
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00:25<ckosloff>Please I need syntax to connect via browser to CUPS server
00:26<ckosloff>I need to reinstall printer
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00:34<snowyfox>Isn't there a standard URL for CUPS..? And what do you mean "reinstall printer"?
00:34<snowyfox>If you need to reinstall drivers, you need to reinstall the Debian packages, rather than go to the browser interface of the printer
00:35<snowyfox>Apparently there should be a CUPS daemon online at port 631
00:35<snowyfox>So browser: http://localhost:631
00:36<snowyfox>You can also check if your CUPS daemon is online with `service --status-all`
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00:36<snowyfox>ckosloff
00:38<ckosloff>snowyfox: got it, thanks
00:39<ckosloff>snowyfox: printer works beautifully
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01:41<tyzef>snowyfox, i do ssh from Android to debian computer.
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01:59<TheBigK>good morn
01:59<TheBigK>ing
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02:10<snowyfox>tyzef さん thanks- it's not very painful, is it..?
02:11<snowyfox>TheBigK sunny..
02:13<tyzef>snowyfox, No, its easy and funny, but I operate it only on LAN
02:14<snowyfox>LAN is okay, that is my use case too
02:14<snowyfox>I mean like, the keyboard, the ergonomics
02:14<tyzef>Ok
02:15<snowyfox>do you plug a keyboard in, using the USB port..?
02:15<tyzef>No
02:15<tyzef>Only screen
02:15<snowyfox>Actually, do you use a special on-screen keyboard?
02:15<snowyfox>The default ones don't have modifiers like Ctrl
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02:15<tyzef>For android?
02:15<snowyfox>Mm
02:16<tyzef>Ah
02:16<tyzef>Yes, use Termux !
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02:16<snowyfox>T.. like, an Androix app called Termux..?
02:16<tyzef>Yep
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02:16<snowyfox>rogerっ I'll look it up, thanks!
02:16<tyzef>It have Ctrl and Alt
02:17<tyzef>Welkom
02:19<himesama>are you trying to put a glottal stop after roger?
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02:20<himesama>snowyfox: actually now that i have you, what input method in debian for ja is the least annoying and preferably has actual hints (e.g. meanings or ruby for kanji)?
02:21<himesama>i have been using emacs and while i adore emacs, the input method does not have definitions or furigana or romaji for kanji so idk which one to select sometimes
02:21<himesama>but idk if any im has those
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02:33<snowyfox>himesame sorry, my hand is hurting a lot right now..!
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02:33<snowyfox>I'm barely switching apps, using my right-handed mouse with my left-hand..
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02:34<snowyfox>The thing is, IMEs are quite literal, they only show words that match exactly what you typed
02:35<snowyfox>They don't give suggestions which are pronounced different from what you type
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02:36<snowyfox>I'm supposed to evaluate all the Japanese IMEs, but I haven't taken the time to do so.. My laptop is using IBus with Mozc, one of my desktop distros is using UIM with something.. and my main desktop distro, I forgot what it uses
02:37<snowyfox>Rather than evaluate how good an IME is, it's an achievement to get one working at all, you have to hook them into X..
02:37<snowyfox>If you see a word in the IME suggestion list that you don't know, I normally just look them up separately in a dictionary
02:38<snowyfox>I have Kiten bound to Alt-F9
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02:39<himesama>i am ok with what i type being used literally. i am not really all that ok with looking up 22 kanji or combinations with the same pronunciation.
02:39<snowyfox>* himesama
02:40<snowyfox>(1) All the suggestions past the first 3 or 4 are usually really rare
02:40<himesama>sounds like i have to stick to emacs im for now. it would be pretty straightforward for it --- or some x thing --- to do what i want i think.
02:40<snowyfox>If you intend for them, that means you know the word already
02:41<snowyfox>(2) If you're typing names, you can type the canonical pronounciation of that name, the most popular one
02:41<himesama>not at all i know lots of words but not the kanji combinations for them
02:41<snowyfox>Mm, I think the IMEs' opinion is for you to learn the Kanji for those words
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02:42<snowyfox>But, you can just not use Kanji, type it in Hiragana and guess that the reader will understand
02:42<himesama>having the im help me learn the kanji is almost my whole point exactly
02:42<snowyfox>わかるはず
02:42<snowyfox>The dictionary will help more in such sessions.. spend an hour typing words you know into the dictionary box
02:42<himesama>i have been rebuked by a ja native speaker who refused to read my email because she couldn't deal with kana-only
02:42<snowyfox>nooo...
02:43<snowyfox>but ok, fair enough..
02:43<himesama>the rhythm was bad
02:43<himesama>she also couldn't deal with romaji despite speaking english
02:43<snowyfox>If you're okay with just learning sessions
02:43<snowyfox>and proprietary software
02:44<snowyfox>you can just open Google Translate and use its Japanese IME
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02:44<snowyfox>Google Translate lists meanings alongside suggestions
02:44<snowyfox>>couldn't deal with romaji
02:44<himesama>i have never seen that feature
02:44<snowyfox>Probably because they are used to speed reading only for canonical Japanese text
02:44<snowyfox>and their reading ability broke down when presented in another script
02:44<himesama>sure
02:45<himesama>i know another native ja speaker who finds it fun
02:45<snowyfox>omg you're right
02:45<himesama>s/it/romaji
02:45<snowyfox>no meanings listing for Japanese..
02:45<himesama>it would not be rocket science imoi
02:45<himesama>imo*
02:45<himesama>to put them in ims
02:46<himesama>and maybe even some kind of hypertext
02:46<snowyfox>One would have to bind a dictionary with the IME
02:46<snowyfox>Would be difficult for free software
02:46<himesama>yeah
02:46<snowyfox>Google can do it but, they're busy just doing the auto-translate-by-headphones
02:46<himesama>dunno, there is jdict or whatever it is called the old one
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02:47<snowyfox>Even if it were possible, density might be a huge issue
02:47<snowyfox>If you ha-
02:47<snowyfox>Oh wait, right, umm
02:47<snowyfox>One second, I need to
02:47<snowyfox>remember a word that does the thing
02:48<snowyfox>Found it!
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02:50<himesama>i will be afk for quite a while
02:50<snowyfox>mm!
02:50<snowyfox>himesama https://i.imgur.com/f7jXxwS.png
02:50<snowyfox>Mozc has the infrastructure in place for keeping verbose mappings around, and a popup window
02:51<snowyfox>But right now it's used only for words where different kanji are used for different senses
02:51<snowyfox>so you get help for picking the right one
02:51<snowyfox>Otherwise, they trust that if you're going to use a selection, you know that is the correct one from your own experience
02:53<himesama>i don't understand what it is doing there but i'd want it to present what it does and also say thickness (adj), passion (n), hot (adj)
02:54<himesama>also bigger fonts :)
02:54<himesama>i have to afk
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02:54<snowyfox>Please don't worry..! go go..
02:55<snowyfox>The thing is, whether it's an adjective or a noun is normally evident from the word itself
02:55<himesama>sure forget that part
02:55<snowyfox>If it's a na-adjective, it is also a noun, so the IME can't help you much there, unless you add a na after it and see if it barks
02:56<himesama>just do thickness passion hot
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02:56<himesama>next to each one
02:56<himesama>thick*
02:56<snowyfox>Most words can't be summarised in a single sentence..
02:56<snowyfox>Kiten does have English translations for many common words
02:56<snowyfox>Usually they throw like 5-8 English words
02:56<snowyfox>to fully capture the sense
02:56<snowyfox>None of those words individually would be accurate
02:57<himesama>but if you know the word, a short word is ok
02:57<snowyfox>If you know the word, you'd know which kanji to use
02:57<himesama>as i did above
02:57<himesama>not at all
02:57<snowyfox>I don't mean to bark..!! Just that your situation is a rare case
02:57<snowyfox>The IMEs are designed for people approaching from a literate angle, not an already-fluent angle
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03:11<snowyfox>also, in case it changes your decision
03:11<snowyfox>Kiten has a "auto lookup anything pasted on the clipboard" feature
03:12<snowyfox>You don't even necessarily have to CTRL-C, sometimes just selecting the text will cause a lookup
03:12<snowyfox>So if you have Kiten buried at the bottom of your screen
03:12<snowyfox>you can enter a selection then Shift-Left over it and the definition will
03:12<snowyfox>It's not convenient, it's not what you asked for, but it is a rapid way of testing
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03:23<shtrb>what module should I load for hwmon to get pwm_enable and being able to start fan on dell laptops ? http://paste.debian.net/1206307/ does not have pwm1_enable and "echo 200 > /sys/devices/virtual/hwmon/hwmon2/pwm1" does not change the fan speed at all
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03:33<sussudio>shtrb: unless dell changes something drastically, you're not able to change their fan speeds.
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03:33<sussudio>you're not even able to read the fan speeds in the dell machines i have.
03:33<shtrb>mofos, I have the idiotic feature that the fan is off most of the time
03:33<shtrb>and start only when it hit ~70C and up
03:34<shtrb>for me sensors return the fan speed when it is working
03:35<sussudio>you may be able to change fan settings in bios setup, but probably not, because dell thinks they know better and won't let you interfere with them.
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03:37<shtrb>thanks
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05:15<itt788>as i don't have any big enough usb drive for the debian instalation iso, i copied the content to a usb hard drive and made it bootable with syslinux
05:16<itt788>s/usb drive/usb flash drive/
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05:17<itt788>the problem is that the installation programm complains that it is unable to find the installation cdrom.
05:19<itt788>and using the available shell, that uses busybox, when i do "mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/myhdd" it says something like "invalid parameters"
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05:41<shtrb>itt788, you know you can have a small usb netinstall and then mount iso from the hard disk ?
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05:52<itt788>shtrb: explain
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05:56<shtrb>Setup a small net install on a small usb (300 mb ) put some isos on your HD , install from the net install usb disk, after finishing installation either mount then add deb file:///path main contrib non-free (or just use mount + apt-cdrom -d mountpoint -m )
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08:30-!-Kolusion is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
08:32<Kolusion>Hey all, I am having trouble finding a list of all the Debian related IRC channels on Debian's website because the website is poorly designed. Does anyone know the URL?
08:33<Kolusion>I found it, my bad.
08:33<Kolusion>Actually not really
08:33<Kolusion>The HTML title is
08:34-!-snowyfox [~snowyfox@cpeac202e0cfd43-cmac202e0cfd40.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit []
08:34<Kolusion>'IRC - Debian Wiki', the page heading is just 'IRC'. The wiki part that I saw on Google makes it sound like an encyclopedia.
08:35<zleap>I think the website has recently been rebuilt so there may be a few problems
08:35<Kolusion>All good. Thanks!
08:36<zleap>no problem
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08:43<tyzef>vv221 & zleap, a lil KISS way to trace fonction in my case is............. Htop \o/ and the criminal is xfce4-power-manager and why it doesn't work on the other laptop? Cause it simply doesn't <autostart>
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08:48<helpme>Hello, I am trying to run debian nonfree gnome off of a blu ray disc. I get to the bootloader, then debian loading screen, then it's just a blinking cursor and the disc stops spinning.
08:49-!-abhaya [~abhaya@202.51.89.240] has joined #debian
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08:49<abhaya>hi
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08:50-!-andreypopp is "Andrey Popp" on #debian
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08:51-!-user is "user" on #debian
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08:58<anot>hello guys.
08:58-!-helpme [~oftc-webi@2600:1004:b05f:481f:41f6:dd2d:d7eb:752b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:59<anot>i found a couple of magnet links for bittorrent.but i cant download them.is someone knows about them?
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09:03<halpme>Hello, I am trying to run debian nonfree gnome off of a blu ray disc. I get to the bootloader, then debian loading screen, then it's just a blinking cursor and the disc stops spinning.
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09:13-!-Tuxist is "Jan Koester,,," on #debian #linux
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10:33-!-lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-bsb #kernelnewbies #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-br
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10:41-!-nahomy is "nahomy" on #debian #osm-diversity
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10:47<jhutchins>haligh: Possibly a corrupt iso or a bad burn.
10:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 967] by debhelper
10:48-!-schizo [~schizo@2001:e68:5425:23a0:a00:27ff:fe24:7814] has joined #debian
10:48-!-schizo is "me without a mic is like a beat without a snare" on #oftc #linux #debian
10:48<jhutchins>haligh: What do you know about your hardware.
10:48-!-rejoicetreat [~handclaph@host-79-45-186-108.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:48<jhutchins>haligh: Nevermind, nick hsh.
10:49-!-qwer [~qwer@78-80-121-118.customers.tmcz.cz] has joined #debian
10:49-!-qwer is "qwer" on #vectorlinux #Corsair #debian-boinc #debian-gaming #debian-hamchat #linuxfriends #linux-storage #openttd.notice #retroshare #debian
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10:59-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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11:01-!-doubletwist is "doubletwist" on #debian
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11:05-!-shibboleth is "/" on #debian-offtopic #virt #tor #samband #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech @##privacy-news @##privacy #linux #debian-nordic #debian-next #debian #Corsair @##politics
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11:05-!-hendrikL is "hhl" on #debian #debian-next #debian-live #iwd #frickelplatz #siduction-admin #debian-kde
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11:30-!-Strom is "Strom" on #alpine-linux #pipewire #virt #tor-project #debian #tor #kernelnewbies #openttd #debian-next
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12:46<joaquinito_01[m]>Hello.
12:46<joaquinito_01[m]>I can download debian kfreebsd 7.1.0 using torrent???
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12:48<sney>there would have been torrents of that release when it was current, but who knows if there are still seeds since it's quite old now
12:50<joaquinito_01[m]>sney: Find me a best torrent site to download all debian DVDs, from 1, into 16/18.
12:51<sney>no
12:51<joaquinito_01[m]>sney: Why???
12:51<sney>but I will give you this, and tell you that I found it by searching 'kfreebsd-amd64 bt-cd site:cdimage.debian.org' on google
12:51<sney>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/7.11.0/kfreebsd-amd64/bt-cd/
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12:56<joaquinito_01[m]>BitTorrent does not have DVDs Amd64.
12:56<joaquinito_01[m]>Starting DVD-4.
12:56<Mister00X>You can get those via jigdo
12:57<Mister00X>but you only need the first one. Assuming the machine has internet connection
12:59<jmcnaught>joaquinito_01[m]: see also https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD
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13:10<joaquinito_01[m]>I can sell DVDs from Jigdo???
13:11<bremner>sure. Although I guess the market for old kfreebsd CD's is basically you
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13:45<spawacz>is there any way to install firmware without adding the nonfree repository?
13:46<Sqrt{not}>spawacz, if you have a way to get the firmware from some other source, then yes.
13:47<ansgar>Install just the free firmware in main :)
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13:49<spawacz>There is none for the r8169
13:49<spawacz>im getting the warnings from initramfs from time to time
13:49<spawacz>system works just fine, but for some reason i cant plug second GPU
13:49<spawacz>and i wonder, if it is because of that?
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13:50<spawacz>i have 2 slots for gpu, motherboard is "Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd 970A-DS3P"
13:50<Sqrt{not}>r8169
13:50<spawacz>but only the bottom slot for gpu works
13:50<Sqrt{not}>!r8169
13:50<dpkg>r8169 is a Linux kernel driver supporting the Realtek RTL8101, RTL8111/8168 and RTL8169 families of gigabit Ethernet chips. See also <rtl8168d>, <rtl8105e>, <rtl8402>, <rtl8411>. Not to be confused with the out-of-tree <r8168> driver.
13:51<spawacz>if i plug 2 at once, only the bottom one works :(
13:51<spawacz>is the missing firmware possible causing this?
13:51<spawacz>or how else can i debug the issue?
13:51<bittin_>rtl is realtek network adapters
13:51<spawacz>hmm is that only ethernet thing?
13:51<spawacz>so it's definitely not why 2nd gpu does not work?
13:51<Sqrt{not}>spawacz, yes, 8169 is not gpu related
13:52<spawacz>thanks
13:52<jmcnaught>spawacz: my last Gigabyte motherboard had an option in the firmware/BIOS to select which graphics card to use on boot, maybe yours does too
13:52<Sqrt{not}>spawacz, try this command (as root): dmesg | grep -i firmware
13:52<spawacz>I need to get myself a new rig that will by supported by all the free drivers
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13:52<spawacz>[ 5.168462] r8169 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load for rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw failed with error -2
13:52<spawacz>[ 5.168469] r8169 0000:02:00.0: Unable to load firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw (-2)
13:52<spawacz>these 2 lines
13:53<spawacz>hmm but when i do this:
13:53<Sqrt{not}>those are for your "nic" i.e. network interface card
13:53<spawacz>$ find /lib/modules -name r816\*
13:53<spawacz>it prints 3 hits
13:54<spawacz>for 3 kernels
13:54<spawacz>one of them is /lib/modules/5.13.4/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/realtek/r8169.ko for the current kernel, so it is present but fails to load?
13:54<Mister00X>driver != firmware
13:57<Sqrt{not}>spawacz, that is all for the network card. do you have a problem with network too, or only gpu problems?
13:58<spawacz>only gpu
13:58<spawacz>i mean it works, but second is not detected
13:58<bittin_>maybe you need the closed source gpu drivers, depending on what card it is etc *guessing here*
13:58<spawacz>I've never done anything like that before btw
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13:58<spawacz>is there any way to "ping" the slot?
14:00<jmcnaught>spawacz: there is lspci
14:01<spawacz>so i should compare lspci before and after plugging the extra gpu, right?
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14:02<jmcnaught>spawacz: or just look closely at the output of lspci. "lspci -nnk" should also show the PCI-IDs and kernel drivers in use.
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14:04<jmcnaught>spawacz: if both GPUs identify themselves as VGA controllers then "lspci -knnd ::0300" should filter the results to only the GPUs, unless one of them thinks it is a 3D controller in which case "lspci -knnd ::0320" would show it
14:04<spawacz>thanks, I'm off to tinkering
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14:33<joaquinito_01[m]>Hello. In eBay, i can buy Debian 10 DVDs???
14:33<zleap>joaquinito_01[m], probably you may as well wait till later this momnth when debian 11 is out
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14:36<joaquinito_01[m]>OK. Debian 11 what packages will have???
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14:37<EdePopede>a guess: most of those from Debian 10 and some new ones
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14:37<sney>"what's new in debian 11" https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html
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14:39<EdePopede>57k? i thought it was 60k already in 10
14:40<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], are you interested in any particular package?
14:40<EdePopede>the distribution includes over 13370 new packages, for a total of over 57703 packages // the distribution includes over 13370 new packages, for a total of over 57703 packages
14:40<sney>some stuff was removed, a lot of software was abandoned upstream and the py2-removal process cleaned up a lot too
14:40<joaquinito_01[m]>Sqrt{not}: Yes. I will install Debian 11 in Vagrant???
14:40<EdePopede>seems that part wasn't updated
14:41<joaquinito_01[m]>I will install Debian 11 in Vagrant???
14:41<EdePopede>2.2.1 as a subchapter is new (was part of 2.2 before), and only the version numbers have been changed
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14:45<Sqrt{not}>,v vagrant
14:45<judd>Package: vagrant on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.5+dfsg1-2; stretch: 1.9.1+dfsg-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 2.0.2+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 2.2.3+dfsg-1; bullseye: 2.2.14+dfsg-1; sid: 2.2.14+dfsg-1
14:45<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], yes, debian includes a vagrant package
14:46<joaquinito_01[m]>Sqrt{not}: Also, a Debian box is available in Vagrant.
14:47<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], yes, can be installed in each other, any combination that you need. This can happen without buying and selling DVDs
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14:47<joaquinito_01[m]>Sqrt{not}: Selling DVDs is ilegal???
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14:48<Sqrt{not}>heh, usually not, just a little bit old-fashioned.
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14:49<joaquinito_01[m]>Sqrt{not}: Selling DVDs is the Debian's unofficial???
14:49<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], I don't undertand this question.
14:49<joaquinito_01[m]>Sqrt{not}: DVDs is from Debian???
14:51<sney>some information about buying debian cds/dvds is here: https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/
14:53<Sqrt{not}>EdePopede, 13370 new packages? that's eleet :)
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14:54<EdePopede>Sqrt{not}: this and impressive. also raising concerns. (how much time will they need to keep them up)
14:55<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], there may be some legal questions about the cryptography included in debian; some governments really do not like crypto.
14:55<EdePopede>ah i didn't check 9, from which release the numbers really are
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14:55<Sqrt{not}>joaquinito_01[m], more legal information here: https://www.debian.org/legal/
14:55<EdePopede>sney: just jumping in, is this list checked from time to time? i think i've seen some at least not being up-to-date
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14:57<sney>EdePopede: I don't know what the www team's policy is for checking these pages for accuracy, but I do know that if you see an error you should report it
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15:01<EdePopede>sney: i think i'll stay on oftc now, even for debian only atm
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15:24<Celelibi>The mirror ftp.fr.debian.org has been down for several days now. Maybe this domain could be switched to another mirror?
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15:25<sarnold>$ host ftp.fr.debian.org
15:25<sarnold>ftp.fr.debian.org is an alias for debian.proxad.net.
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15:25<sarnold>do you get the same results?
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15:25<vv221>Yes, I think this is the only mirror for ftp.fr.debian.org
15:26<vv221>The error is slowly getting posted about in several French Debian forums.
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15:27<sarnold>interesting, there are errors with the debian dns servers https://dnsviz.net/d/ftp.fr.debian.org/dnssec/ "debian.org zone: The server(s) were not responsive to queries over UDP. (2620:49:4::10)"
15:27<Celelibi>sarnold, the issue is only the http. The server is the right one it even responds to pings.
15:28<sney>well, proxad is an isp, so it could easily be a router or a proxy of some sort responding to those pings
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15:30<sney>you may want to email dsa@debian.org about getting the ftp.fr alias reassigned to one of the other french mirrors, or possibly find out what happened
15:30<sney>though maybe it's just a service hiccup and it'll be fixed shortly
15:30<Celelibi>Sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure a lot of people is affected.
15:31<Celelibi>The hiccup started a few days ago.
15:31<sney>I'm sure even french isps have fewer people in the office on weekends
15:31<Celelibi>True.
15:31<Celelibi>Ok, let's leave them a few more days.
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17:03<baal>Does anyone access the iCloud website through the Debian patched Firefox-ESR regularly? It might be my system causing the issue.
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17:06<jhutchins>baal: What issue?
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17:10<baal>The iCloud website states that it can't connect to it's server and I'm not able to do anything on the site. I've looked into the network analysis of the post/get's and I can see a bad misdirected request.
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17:12<jmcnaught>baal: are you using any add-ons? Have you tried with add-ons temporarily disabled?
17:13<jochum>private mode helps for addons
17:17<baal>jmcnaught:I've disabled some of the privacy protection add-ons and about:config settings but at that point I'm not sure it's worth doing. Most other websites don't need them disabled so what are they using all of that data for y'know?
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17:18<jmcnaught>baal: Firefox has a "Restart with Add-ons Disabled…" option under the help menu you could use for a quick test, then if it works perhaps turn off all add-ons and turn the back on one-by-one
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17:21<baal>jmcnaught: So far I only have 2 add-ons. Disconnect & Google Analytics Opt-out. I've tried the website with Disconnect disabled but If I need to the Google Analytics Opt-out disabled I don't think I'll use the website. Just a personal thing.
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17:23<jmcnaught>baal: cool, it is up to you. If you determine that a particular add-on is causing the problem maybe an alternative like webext-ublock-origin-firefox (Debian package name) would work.
17:25<jhutchins>baal: Usually that failure to connect message means that the web server isn't talking to it's database, which is not something you can fix.
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17:26<baal>jmcnaught: Thanks for the recommendation. Are you able to use the iCloud website by chance?
17:27<jmcnaught>baal: I do not have an iCloud account but if we can test without one tell us the URL
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17:28<baal>jmcnaught: If you can navigate the website after loading that would be a good enough test for me. It's www.icloud.com
17:31<jmcnaught>baal: https://i.imgur.com/qHPfSz3.png
17:33<baal>jmcnaught: Looks like i've borked something in my local Firefox because that's the screen I'd like to get to but can't. Thanks again jmcnaught.
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17:40<jhutchins>baal: Well, test that. Create a new users with a clean firefox profile and see if that works.
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21:34<daya>Hi, has anyone used the libdpkg-dev api? I can't find its documentation, only an api reference, and I don't know the meaning of each function.
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22:01<gfxdeb>which video card will work fine on free drivers, without non-free firmare? if you have a card that works can you tell me it's model
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22:05<sarnold>gfxdeb: I think you've got like five choices: intel 915, intel xe, nvidia, ati/amd, ASpeed -- and I *think* I heard that ASpeed doesn't require firmware files.
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22:09<lhvf>By following here: → < https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2021/08/02#21:34 > , I can tell that here < https://packages.debian.org/sid/libdpkg-dev > , the source package is [ Source: dpkg ] . Then the command to access the specific manual (even on limited user account (I see here it at my side) ), is ` man dpkg `(without the back accent ' ` '').
22:10<gfxdeb>sarnold: I've seen intel (915?) and amd, and nvidia, glitching. that's why I wonder which exact models ppl tried
22:10<gfxdeb>by glitching I mean it was close to unusable - only very strange video modes, messed up colors
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22:12<sarnold>gfxdeb: oh crazy. I've done my best to stick to intel i915 cards for a very long time, and while they aren't perfect, they've been pretty easy to live with. and loads of people use nvidia or amd cards for higher-power needs.. at those prices I imagine they've got to work pretty okay
22:12<gfxdeb>in one case KMS didn't started at all and kernel fall back to pure VGA text mode
22:13<gfxdeb>sarnold: is i915 an exact model name, or can you provide more detailed name? perhaps mainboard model? and you use it nowdays on debian stable with no firmware nonfree?
22:13<lhvf>daya: Does this here quoted by me, helped you in anything?
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22:13<sarnold>gfxdeb: i915 is the driver used for most of intel's onboard video chipsets, you'd buy a laptop or motherboard with onboard video as the option
22:14<sarnold>"VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation UHD Graphics 620 (rev 07) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])" etc
22:15<Sqrt{not}>,file skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin
22:15<judd>Search for skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin in buster/amd64: firmware-misc-nonfree: lib/firmware/i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin
22:15<Sqrt{not}>that's the firmware that gets loaded to my i915
22:16<blast007>!i915 firmware
22:16<dpkg>Some Intel UHD GPUs made after 2015 require firmware from userspace for all features to be enabled. This includes Skylake, Kabylake, Broxton, Cannonlake and possibly others. Ask me about <non-free sources> and install firmware-misc-nonfree to provide.
22:16<Sqrt{not}>note that this firmware is in the non-free repo
22:16<daya>thanks, I am looking at.
22:16<lhvf>Starting in Skylake, the Intel Linux Driver began to be proprietary code. I've seen this statement here in #debian in the last months.
22:17<Sqrt{not}>I see this in dmesg: [ 14.145497] [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin (v1.27)
22:17<gfxdeb>if mainboard is > 2015 year and has this problem, then what would be next best pick? some AMD? which model for example? would be good to have high HD and display port
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22:19<jhutchins>Sqrt{not}: I fail to see a problem.
22:19<daya>I have read the man document of dpkg.but it is about how to use dpkg,not how to use dpkg c api.
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22:20<blast007>gfxdeb: most Intel GPUs are part of the CPU, not the mainboard
22:20<lhvf>daya: What is the outputof lsb_release -a > lsb_release_a.txt ?
22:21<lhvf>*output of* (typo)
22:21<blast007>gfxdeb: and most AMD also require non-free firmware, unless you go WAY back
22:21<Igor2>hi all; is this the right channel to ask administrative questions about things like Debian Maintainers?
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22:22<gfxdeb>blast007: any non-integrated GFX that doesn't require firmare, then?
22:22<jhutchins>gfxdeb: What's your goal? WHy avoid the firmware?
22:23<gfxdeb>seems quite sad no one makes any usable god damn SVGA card that is 100% opensource. do we need to wait for Bean Eater guy to upgrade his TLL breadboard made card
22:23<Sqrt{not}>I don't have any problem with it. just pointing out for even a not-so-modern, not-so-powerful intel machine, I have non-free, secret video firmware, and non-free secret CPU microcode, and secret non-free BIOS code.
22:23<gfxdeb>jhutchins: I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
22:24<daya>No LSB modules are available.
22:24<daya>Distributor ID: Debian
22:24<daya>Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
22:24<daya>Release: 10
22:24<daya>Codename: buster
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22:24<gfxdeb>jhutchins: Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
22:24<alex11>oh no
22:24<blast007>ah, so just a troll?
22:24<gfxdeb>jhutchins: and for real tho ;) firmware blobs are another source of software that lowers security of your system
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22:25<gfxdeb>but it does feel strange when you need to explain why closed source is bad, on Debian channel
22:25<jhutchins>gfxdeb: Uh, yeah. The pedantic definition. There is also common usage, which according to Oxford can and does over-ride the pedantic definition.
22:25<jhutchins>gfxdeb: Linux is the OS & environment, not just the kernel.
22:26<Sqrt{not}>gfxdeb, we sometimes call it Debian GNU/linux if that makes you happier
22:26<gfxdeb>using blobs = no official support for your "Linux" kernel, too
22:26<gfxdeb>tainted kernel etc
22:26<jhutchins>gfxdeb: It would appear from your response that the answer to my question is that you're an OSS fanatic, and that Debian is not FOSS compliant and should not be your distribution of choice.
22:26<gfxdeb>jhutchins: <gfxdeb> jhutchins: and for real tho ;) firmware blobs are another source of software that lowers security of your system
22:27<Sqrt{not}>gfxdeb, even my old 486 has some secret Intel BIOS code in it, without source available.
22:27<Igor2>hmm, there are so many debian related channels and I don't understand which one is for administrative questions
22:27<gfxdeb>Sqrt{not}: not sure if that can be solved on pc, how ever for now I want to solve the GFX question
22:28<Sqrt{not}>if you are absolutist, you should not want a PC with secret microcode and BIOS
22:28<gfxdeb>Sqrt{not}: is there a way to do it?
22:28<Sqrt{not}>yes, it's called compromise
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22:29<sarnold>daya: it'd be best to use a pastebin site like https://paste.debian.net/ for anything longer than about two or three lines
22:29<jhutchins>gfxdeb: Having run systems that were audited by the NSA, I think your perception of "security" may not be entirely realistic.
22:29<Sqrt{not}>Igor2, what kind of administrative issue are we talking about?
22:29<gfxdeb>Sqrt{not}: I mean, is there a way to run PC without nonopen bios
22:29<Igor2>Sqrt{not}, it's about the process of becoming a DM
22:29<gfxdeb>you can run GFX without nonopen blob as we established above: run pre-2015 i915
22:29<jhutchins>Igor2: Probably this one, if the question pertains to current stable.
22:30<gfxdeb>are there other cards, e.g. with full hd, and display-port, that also run without nonfree on debian
22:30<Igor2>well, it's not about a specific version of debian, not about coding or antyhing liek that, it's about the administrative process of becoming a debian maintainer
22:30<jhutchins>Yeah, we have some info on that, hang around for a bit we'll see if someone comes up with it.
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22:31<jhutchins>!nmg
22:31<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/
22:31<Igor2>thanks;, I've read the docs, yes
22:31<jhutchins>Igor2: You'll want to start following the dev mailing lists, and see what kind of help they're looking for.
22:31<gfxdeb>jhutchins: you think running binary blobs is not worse than running a known code, assuming both are products from like intel and amd
22:32<Igor2>the question is this: I've read some discussion about making the key signing somewhat simpler
22:32<Igor2>but I am not sure what's the current standing on this
22:32<jhutchins>Igor2: That's not something this channel is meant to help with, that's more development/maintenace.
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22:32<jhutchins>Igor2: We're more generic hardware/software support for specific questions.
22:33<Igor2>so can you point me to the right channel?
22:33<Igor2>https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
22:33<Igor2>this one has too many...
22:33<jhutchins>Igor2: I can't, I'm a user/operator/administrator, not a trace of developer in me.
22:34<Igor2>ohh, It thought "membership" and things like that are more administrative than programming questions
22:34<Igor2>ok, thanks, I will probably try on #debian-mentors
22:34<gfxdeb>Igor2: after 5 seconds of googling: #debian-devel: Meant for discussions about the development of Debian. This channel is not a support channel. Asking support questions here is inappropriate.
22:35<Igor2>yeah, but it's not about development, it's about administration
22:35<Igor2>but thanks, I will probably try there too if #debian-mentors fails
22:38<jhutchins>Igor2: -devel, -mentors, those are probably good places to lurk and observe.
22:38<Igor2>I just need a clear answer about the key signing queston so I can decide if I am interested at all
22:38<jhutchins>Igor2: Thre really isn't a centralized, hierachical administration in Debian.
22:38<Igor2>I know
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22:39<Igor2>I'm not new to debian, neither as user nor as developer, I really just can't find an answer to a question and I thought I'd ask someone who knows how that specific detail is done currently
22:40<Igor2>(developer not as in debian developer but as in upstream develoepr who can package stuff)
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22:53<sk>Good morning . I perfectly using debian 9 for almost 1 year and after that i updated to debian 10 using official guideline, then suspend and hibernation stop working . So i search internet and install pm-utils . after that suspend and hibernation works ok but when i resume from suspension followinf error massage show in kde ""Message from syslogd@debian at Aug 3 08:11:43 ...
22:53<sk>kernel:[ 840.096104] mce: [Hardware Error]: CPU 0: Machine Check: 0 Bank 6: ae0000000040110a
22:53<sk>Message from syslogd@debian at Aug 3 08:11:43 ...
22:53<sk>kernel:[ 840.096105] mce: [Hardware Error]: TSC 0 ADDR fef81e00 MISC 38a0000086
22:53<sk>Message from syslogd@debian at Aug 3 08:11:43 ...
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22:59<sk>Sir am am using debian 9 and everything works fine but after updating to debian 10 suspend and hibernation stop working screen goes blank and never wake up . So i search internet and use pm-utils after that in kde plasma 5 suspensd and hibernation works . but after resume from suspension i got following error https://paste.debian.net/plain/1206403
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23:06<jochum>That error looks like something to ignore sk?
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23:09<sk>sir i never occured in debian 9
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23:10<sk>debian 10 is not that smooth function . I removed pm-utils . Suspension works fine but same error massage
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23:12<sk>systemctl suspend works fine but same error . May be it related to ram . i think suspend resume from ram
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23:25<lhvf>Sqrt{not}: sarnold : The daya user is a Developer at Salsa, and wish to receive some orientation on libdpkg API (https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2021/08/02#21:34 ). He is conversating to me at PM.
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23:27<lhvf>What Mainling-Lists or IRC Debian Channel, he could get more attention, and receive detailed information on Debian Developing subjects? He has already an account on Debian Salsa anyway...
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23:31<lhvf><daya> *If I have the opportunity, I also want to apply for DM and make some contributions.*
23:32<jochum>lhvf: #debian-mentors maybe?
23:32<jochum>+
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23:34<daya>maintainer not mentors....
23:34<gfxdeb>sarnold: what is "Aspeed"?
23:34<lhvf>jochum: Yes, I told he about this information, by submiting this IRC communicating day, with the friendly guy *mnuhmnuh*: < https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/2019/02/27 >.
23:35<gfxdeb>sarnold: it's some family of intel mobos?
23:37<gfxdeb>spend millions $ developing product family / doesn't even have a wikipedia page on it / toplulz
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 03 00:00:38 2021