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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-03

---Logopened Tue Aug 03 00:00:38 2021
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00:30<Guest3121>test
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00:31<unkmar>I'm running debian bullseye & (openjdk 11) java 11 is not working for me. How can I get either java 8 or adopt openjdk 11 installed and default?
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01:00<jm_>unkmar: define not working
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01:08<unkmar>OpenGL issue.
01:09<unkmar>Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-lookup.c: 111: check_match: Assertion `version->filename == NULL || ! _dl_name_match_p (version->filename, map)' failed!
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01:31<unkmar>Good night, or morning. I'm going to bed.
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03:50<jandr>Hi! Do you know where would be the best place (e.g. channel or which Debian mailing list) to "report" outdated information in one of the Wiki pages? In https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty it mentions that the GPG keys of a repository may be available on key servers, and mentions that, if this is the case, the servers to use should be sks-keyservers.net, but to the best of my knowledge sks keyservers have stopped providing service.
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03:55<vv221>jandr, even better than reporting would be to fix the info in the wiki page ;)
03:56<jandr>I thought one needed a Debian account (e.g. Debian developer) to edit the wiki
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03:56<vv221>No, only a wiki account, but these are open to anyone.
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03:57<jandr>but maybe I am mistaken! I will try to register and fix it myself.
03:57<vv221>Hey, I have one, and am not a DD or DM in any way ;)
03:58<vv221>(maybe there would be a way to make it clearer that anyone can contribute to the wiki)
04:01<jandr>vv221, would you happen to know what is the "de-facto" or "ad-hoc standard" (using the wording from the wiki) for uploading/sharing GPG keys? I have used keys.openpgp.org recently, but I am not sure whether that is the one to recommend or there are others best suited for this.
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04:36<vv221>jandr, here I use a Web Key Directory (https://wiki.gnupg.org/WKD), but I don’t know how widely used it is.
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04:37<vv221>I see on gnupg.org it is described as "GnuPG’s standard system for key discovery": https://gnupg.org/faq/wkd.html
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05:08<vv221>It looks like ftp.fr.debian.org is back \o/
05:08<vv221>(ping whoever was keeping an eye on it…)
05:13<jandr>vv221, thanks, I will reference WKD
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06:01<alex11>what's a decent gui virtualization thing that isn't virt-manager?
06:05<netmonk>morning
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06:16<StyXman_>alex11: à la virtualbox? for what technology?
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06:16<StyXman_>foreman can run various types of VMs
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06:35<gfxdeb>how to somehow tag or mark files into e.g. 1 out of 10 categories, and then be able to easily 1) view only one "tag" in things like image viewers, file explorers 2) execute shell commands like backup, remove on only some tags
06:35<gfxdeb>I am thinking perhaps some kind of file extended attribute, and then some special mount (rebind) that filters based on that tag?
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07:02<jelly>gfxdeb, xattr seems like a good choice to create tags, but I'm not sure there's a ready-made fs type (FUSE or kernel) to do the latter part. How do you feel about making hardlinks to 10 separate directory structures instead?
07:03<gfxdeb>jelly: the thing is to not move things into directories
07:04<grawity>there *is* a "tagfs" FUSE project
07:04<gfxdeb>jelly: e.g. have backups of 3 linux installations, and want to go in and tag various files as important, or family, work, education
07:04<gfxdeb>s/backup/restored copy of files (it will not be updating) but still shoving them into dirs for most files seems not the idea I want
07:04<jelly>gfxdeb, I didn't say move. I said hardlink.
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07:05<jelly>the files stay in the original place, and in ADDITION to that, also in one or more of 10 "tag" dirs
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07:06<gfxdeb>jelly: hmmm. and any tool to do that easily, lots of files, when I click for them to have tag A or B, the "tagdir" needs to create matching directory stucture like olddvd/2019/mark2/ so that it can hardlink files there as ./tags/work/
07:06<grawity>that works for viewing files or otherwise using them as input
07:06<grawity>not so much for renaming/deleting/editing
07:06<gfxdeb>grawity: for deleting it would work, no?
07:06<grawity>you'd only delete that one hardlink from tags/work/, it would still remain in all other locations
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07:08<jelly>a simple script would be sufficient to "tag" (conditionally mkdir -p a missing directory branch, and hardlink) or untag (just rm the hardlink)
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07:08<jelly>hardlinks are cool
07:08<gfxdeb>maybe, tho this really is simulating xattr with it
07:08<jelly>absolutely yes
07:08<grawity>git-annex has "views" which might also work
07:09<gfxdeb>grawity: so if I have ./diskdumps/ with TBs of data, how to make git take care of them? and the git dir would only store in git file names and their checksums right?
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07:10<jelly>,i git-annex
07:10<judd>Package git-annex (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: manage files with git, without checking their contents into git. Version: 7.20190129-3; Size: 11066.2k; Installed: 66731k; Homepage: http://git-annex.branchable.com/
07:10<grawity>if you import files with `git annex add`, then the actual git repository only stores a sha256 symlink, you use `git annex get/move/copy/drop` to transfer data
07:11<gfxdeb>grawity: can I "tag" files in there? would the "view" create a directory as I descripe? via fuse or via creating hardlinks as above?
07:11<grawity>IIRC, its "views" magically build and checkout a git branch that's filtered by the tag you want
07:12<grawity>never used them, I just know they exist
07:12<grawity>are they even called views?
07:13<grawity>anyway, for me it's primarily useful in that it keeps track of which systems or HDDs have which files
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07:28<gfxdeb>this project did kinda such a thing, but seems unmaintained, and used .tags/ instead of xattr https://github.com/marook/tagfs
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07:37<gfxdeb>what do you recommend to run firefox as kinda separate user or something, but graphically inside the desktop of my current user. like jails, firejail, qubesOS
07:38<gfxdeb>in order to make it hard for firefox to access my entire desktop in case if it is compromised (and ofc also block access to other files)
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07:39<gfxdeb>more lightweight then running graphical VM inside my main desktop and a firefox in it
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07:45<grove>It depends a bit on what you mean by "desktop". If you run X any client can function as a keylogger/sreenshooter (as I understand it wayland provides better control there, but I have no experience with it). If you're only talking about your fs, and can live with *one* browser instance, flatpak is an easy way, then firefox can only see the parts of your fs it's allowed to. If you want several ...
07:45<grove>... browser instances and/or some protecting against ipc communiction, I have run firefox (remember to start each instance with "-no-remote") in several virtual machines (I've used lxc guests) with X forwarding
07:46<gfxdeb>grove: I mean X, Xorg
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07:52<grove>Then you pretty much have to assume that firefox doesn't act as a keylogger/screenshooter (I have no idea if extensions can do that, i.e. if yo also have to trust your extensions)
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08:14<gfxdeb>well, firejail ofer such a thing, but it seems still heavy, it afaik replicates all of your /usr files and updates there separately (tho reuses kernel, and runs as normal process in another namespace)
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09:03<gfxdeb>how to install all libqt5*
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09:09<gfxdeb>I want all the libs to compile (and run) Qt programs that use qt5
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09:12<sussudio>gfxdeb: apt-get install libqt5*dev
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09:16<antoine>Hello, I have a home server that runs Debian. I got a new server so I copied the content of my hard drive on my new hard drive, which is in my new server. It seems to boot fine but I can't use the network
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09:16<antoine>I tried editing /etc/network/interfaces to change "eth0" by my new network interface name "ens10"
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09:17<antoine>I have just seen the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules which has eth0 in it
09:17<antoine>So, how can I use the network again? Can I regenerate these files or do I need to to it by hand?
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09:18<antoine>And is there anything else I should know when switching servers. I've never done it before
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09:21<jkc>antoine: Can you pastebin the contents of /etc/network/interfaces, the persistent net rules, and the output of 'ip link'?
09:21<jkc>!paste
09:21<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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09:23<antoine>jkc: Ok I'll try to type it (I don't have network access)
09:23<jkc>antoine: Yeah, that was stupid of me.
09:23<jkc>Can you run 'dhclient ens10'?
09:23<jkc>That should get you network access for now.
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09:24<antoine>wait, it works :o
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09:25<jkc>Oh, so you're good?
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09:25<antoine>I saw online that I can just remove /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and reboot. I didn't really believe it so while it rebooted I typed my question
09:25<jkc>Cool!
09:26<antoine>Sorry for bothering
09:26<jkc>Don't be sorry, glad you're up and running.
09:26<antoine>jkc, Would you know if there is anything else that I should be aware of when switching servers?
09:27<jkc>If there's a disk size change, handle that. Did you dd the old disk to the new one, or just copy the files?
09:28<antoine>I just copied the files with rsync -aHAX
09:28<antoine>There is a size change
09:28<jkc>Oh, if you just file copied, then you should already be good to go.
09:29<jkc>Just be aware that your filesystems will have new UUIDs, so if you're mounting via those, check /etc/fstab.
09:29<antoine>Ok yep, I edited it
09:29<jkc>Then I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.
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09:31<gfxdeb>sussudio: the library itself is installed when -dev devel files are installed for given lib?
09:32<sussudio>-dev are libraries to compile things with
09:33<gfxdeb>sussudio: yeap. but you need also normal library part, to run the compiled thing
09:33<gfxdeb>are these auto installed when -dev is
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09:33<sussudio>no. just leave out the dev part then.
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09:34<antoine>jkc, Ok, thanks a lot for your help then :)
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09:51<Izty>jkc: (this is antoine). Do you know what the file: 70-persistent-net.rules is for?
09:51<Izty>Because now my /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-cd.rules is empty
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09:52<Izty>I still have the old one, which had a few comments and this: "SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:24:21:7f:8b:3c", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0""
09:53<jkc>Izty: It's an attempt by udev to make sure that eth* devices always get attached to the same MAC.
09:53<jkc>Izty: With predictable interface naming (e.g. ens10), its no longer necessary, so no rules will get added.
09:53<vv221>I think this was deprecated by Debian upgrade notes one or two stable releases ago. But it would need double-checking.
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09:55<Izty>Ok ok I see
09:55<Izty>I installed this server in 2016, maybe that's why I still have it
09:55<vv221>Deprecated since Stretch: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names
09:56<vv221>I had the same artifacts on my Sid, that’s what prompted me to start following the release notes despite not using the stable releases ;)
09:56<Izty>vv221: Hmm, this raises a good point..
09:56<Izty>I've never read the release notes
09:56<jkc>oops
09:57<vv221>You should ;P They look massive because of the very detailed table of contents, but they are actually quite quick to read.
09:57<Izty>What is a good practice then? Each time there is a new version, I need to read it before upgrading?
09:57<vv221>Usually, you can skip everything but chapters 4 (Upgrades from Debian N-1) and 5 (Issues to be aware of for N).
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09:58<Izty>And, does it include minor versions like x.1 x.2 and such?
09:58<vv221>No, only major ones as far as I know.
09:58<vv221>Minor ones are expected to be almost trivial ;)
09:59<jkc>Minor versions are mostly just point-in-time snapshots of all updates applied from .0 until that time.
09:59<jkc>At least, that's my understanding.
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10:00<vv221>Izty, if you look at the tables of contents of https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html and https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html, you will see that you can usually skip most of the read and focus on what could have an impact on your own setup.
10:01<Izty>jkc: Ok I see :)
10:01<Izty>vv221: Ok, good to know
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10:11<Izty>Ok, it was a good read! And I'm glad you told me about the release notes just before bullseye :)
10:13<Izty>Why does `lsb_release -a` says "Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"? Does it mean I'm on 10.0 instead of 10.10?
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10:14<vv221>Better to check /etc/debian_version ;)
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10:14<vv221>LSB tools seems to be slowly left behind…
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10:16<Izty>Ah, 10.10, good :)
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10:25<Izty>Am I supposed to run `usrmerge` after upgrading to Bullseye then?
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10:31<bremner>do the release notes say so?
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10:33<Izty>bremner: It says "if desired" and since I'm not sure what all the consequences are, I thought I'd ask
10:34<vv221>Well, that’s a tricky question.
10:34<bremner>Izty: it's a short term pain / long term pain thing.
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10:34<vv221>Some people are in favour of it, some are against it, and some would be in favour of it only if it were done in a different way…
10:35<vv221>Having no real opinion myself I followed the general recommendation and ran usrmerge.
10:35<bremner>well, I think it is rather likely to be the standard / only supported way for bullseye + 1
10:35<bremner>there is a vocal minority that is unhappy with this.
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10:36<Izty>I see, I'll just go with the flow then :)
10:36<vv221>I don’t think I’ve acutally read anyone really against the merge itself (at least not with convincing arguments). The discussion was mostly about how the merge is done, from a technical point of view.
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10:37<Izty>Do I remove usrmerge once it has been installed?
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10:38<bremner>I don't think so.
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10:38<vv221>I kept it, but I have not really thought about it.
10:38<vv221>Keeping it was the less-effort route ;)
10:38<bremner>it doesn't use space, so why tempt fate?
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11:37<jhutchins>vv221: LSB has been depreciated for several years now.
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11:39<jhutchins>Izty: lsb_release only reports the major version, no the point release, as you can see from your result.
11:41<jhutchins>Izty: Same with cat /etc/os-release
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11:42<Konomi>I found out how depreciated lately as I went to use it and got command not found
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11:46<Konomi>os-release does seem to provide VERSION_ID= debian just doesn't appear to use it?
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11:48<Cranky_Franky>hey guys, i am finally getting a grip on linux
11:48<Cranky_Franky>is it possible to modify the debian loading screen (blue screen with the debian logo spinning around)
11:49<Cranky_Franky>cuz it doesn't look cool enough for me
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11:49<Cranky_Franky>i did modify grub loader already
11:51<sney>the boot splash program is called plymouth, I think there are a lot of themes available for it
11:51<dreamer>everything is possible
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11:52<Cranky_Franky>great, i didn't know it was a program
11:52<Cranky_Franky>i will look into it
11:52<Cranky_Franky>if i remove plymouth with apt-get purge plymouth will my computer still boot up?
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11:52<jhutchins>Frankly I find the scroll of bootloader messages pretty cool.
11:53<Cranky_Franky>i'm not talking about the bootloader, i'm talking about the screen after that is like a blue wallpaper with just a spinning thing fora few secs
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11:54<Cranky_Franky>or maybe that is the bootloader, i am n00b
11:54<sney>plymouth is just an animation, it isn't required for the system to work
11:54<sney>I usually disable it which is why I'm not sure about the themes situation
11:55<sney>and jhutchins is talking about the scroll of messages from the init system. though it is common to refer to the whole process as boot messages, or so
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11:56<Cranky_Franky>you learn so much from this chat
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11:58<flexible-sparrow>is there a way to change language of disk encryption password prompt shown during boot (in initramfs stage)? i currently don't see any regardless if using plymouth or not
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12:05<flexible-sparrow>yeah I think it's hardcoded in /usr/share/cryptsetup/initramfs/bin/cryptroot-unlock
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12:21<lad>Hi. I am trying out the Accessibility feature "Mouse Keys" so i can use the numpad for moving mouse. I find that it is painfully slow :). I have tried to use "xkbset 60 10 10 20 10" to make it faster, but I get the message "XKB not supported for display :0". Any hints?
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12:28<mfrisch>Hi. I have had a problem with setting up the plugins and themes in the debian wordpress. Everything says writable in WP. The problem is plugins won't install or update and same with themes. Thanks
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12:40<jhutchins>,v wordpress
12:40<judd>Package: wordpress on amd64 -- jessie: 4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u17; jessie-security: 4.1.31+dfsg-0+deb8u1; stretch: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; stretch-security: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; buster: 5.0.12+dfsg1-0+deb10u1; buster-security: 5.0.12+dfsg1-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 5.7.1+dfsg1-2; sid: 5.7.1+dfsg1-2
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12:41<Sqrt{not}>lad, I wonder if that might be a wayland vs. X11 issue? Do you know if you are running under wayland there?
12:42<lad>Sqrt{not}, I hadn't thought of that. I am running wayland
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12:43<Sqrt{not}>lad, gnome, at least, gives you the option to login with X instead, at the user login screen. might be worth a try
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12:43<mfrisch>bullseye wordpress
12:43<lad>Sqrt{not}, thx, will try now.
12:44<jhutchins>Wordpress! The one thing I miss from wordpress is to take a block of text and "fit to page". Great for making signs.
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12:48<lad>Sqrt{not}, yes, that works now, thx :)
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13:20<Izty>jhutchins: Ok I see, thanks!
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13:56<mfrisch>I have logs that are in the gigs what do I do to fix that?
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13:57<gfxdeb>mfrisch: buy a had that is TBs
13:57<gfxdeb>!next
13:57<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
13:57<gfxdeb>*a hdd
13:58<gfxdeb>less exciting alternative solutions might inclue "logrotate"
13:58<mfrisch>got the space never seen a 6 gb log
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14:00<mfrisch>over 20gb in less than two days
14:02<vv221>The best fix is probably to fix the issue spawning the logs in the first place.
14:02<vv221>So first you need to identify it.
14:02<jkc>Lucky, it's being logged!
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14:06<mfrisch>think its because of me adding wordpress they log
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14:09<Sqrt{not}>at least skim those logs before you delete them.
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14:18<jkc>logrotate with compress
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14:19<mfrisch>these are standard log files that are huge to me...shouldn't already rotate them?
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14:20<mfrisch>isn't logrotate standard?
14:20<sarnold>check with ls -l on your log directory
14:20<imMute>yes it is. but it only runs daily AFAIK
14:20<sarnold>see how many logs you've got, of what sizes, and how many of them you've got
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14:21<sarnold>maybe you're logging six gigs of junk each day
14:21<sarnold>find which files are the largest, read them, and figure out if you need to fix something
14:22<mfrisch>one is 3330993806
14:22<vv221>jkc, logrotate is a good advice in regular cases, but here we have some rogue daemon spamming logs so logrotate would do nothing but hide the real issue.
14:25<jkc>vv221: logrotate with compress means that you keep the old logs, but in a compressed format, so that you can still investigate the issue without massive logfiles lingering around.
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14:32<Sqrt{not}>and logrotate can delete old log files, if so configured
14:35<ryo>which logfile and what's in it, just the Webserver logging all access?
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14:37<sarnold>it might not be the fastest thing to edit a three gigabyte file. Depending upon the tool you use it might never actually load..
14:37<sarnold>I wonder if mfrisch is stuck in a swap storm trying to read the thing with a poor editor
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14:42<mfrisch>20gb difference from like yesterday? it is weird.
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14:44<Sqrt{not}>mfrisch, skim through the big ones with `less` or `zless`
14:45<ryo>just start with less, grep etc and see what's in the logfile, if it's valid logging because of webaccess etc, or something went wrong and the server wants to tell you
14:47<mfrisch>they all look standard. with so I guess my question is how to check the logrotate settings
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14:48<mfrisch>is it a cron?
14:48<ryo>generally I'd tell the daemon to log less, less verbose, depending on service
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15:18<fishbrum>hello I've downloaded the RC3 XFCE live debian iso to install on a new-ish laptop, but it keeps booting directly to grub. I've verified the checksum of the ISO. I've used dd from an ubuntu to create the bootable USB stick. Is it expected for it to go to grub?
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15:19<imMute>fishbrum: did you have grub already installed on the laptop?
15:19<imMute>fishbrum: you probably need to go into the BIOS/EFI and tell it to boot from the USB drive rather than the hard drive
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15:24<fishbrum>imMute: yes, it was running pop_OS
15:24<fishbrum>I've been choosing to boot from the Generic USB drive thing but then it goes to grub
15:25<fishbrum>the USB stick looks normal with no issues, I will try another stick just in case
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15:26<imMute>the USB live disk might also be using grub
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15:30<scorpion2185[m]>do trackpads always work barely? Only moving pointer all extra things like "touching scroll" etc. don't work
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15:32<sarnold>my trackpad on my x1c6 works pretty well on ubuntu, this is all the configuration I needed to do:
15:32<sarnold>xinput set-prop "Synaptics TM3289-021" "libinput Accel Speed" 1
15:32<sarnold>xinput set-prop "Synaptics TM3289-021" "libinput Tapping Enabled" 1
15:33<mfrisch>mine almost works has weird rt click but works
15:33<scorpion2185[m]>where is that config?
15:34<mfrisch>oh I do the settings in gnome3 for mouse trackpad...
15:34<sarnold>scorpion2185[m]: I put those in my ~/.xsession, since that's how I do everything else in my X session
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15:36<scorpion2185[m]>I can see touchpad on gnome3
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15:37<grawity>then use gnome3 settings for this
15:37<grawity>it's weird that scroll is off by default though
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15:38<fishbrum>imMute: just so you know I'm officialy certified by the World Health Organization as being dumb
15:38<fishbrum>just had to type exit and boot the live system
15:38<scorpion2185[m]>but it's a trackpad not a touchpad , by default no minimize /maximize buttons
15:38<grawity>I'm not very familiar with the term "trackpad"
15:38<scorpion2185[m]>crazy by default on gnome
15:38<scorpion2185[m]>it s the embedded mouse of notebook/laptop
15:39<imMute>fishbrum: I don't think you're dumb. that's something I've never seen before - it's always just worked for me (booting live/installers from USB sticks)
15:39<grawity>the rectangle below keyboard that you finger around in?
15:39<fishbrum>I mean I should've been smarter and just tried typing "exit" to see what happens
15:39<grawity>I mean that's a touchpad
15:39<fishbrum>I do agree it's weird it's booting to grub though, even with another usb stick
15:39<scorpion2185[m]>and I would like support for the natural features of the hardware , gnome3 only have 2 options ( and 3rd is nothing)
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15:40<scorpion2185[m]>grawity: yes but not that is trackpad if you seaRCH on internet
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15:41<grawity>internet says apple calls them trackpads, everybody else says touchpads
15:41<grawity>same thing either way
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15:41<grawity>not gonna go very far with "but gnome only has settings for touchpads and I have a trackpad"
15:42<mfrisch>I'm running on a macbook with whatever you call it
15:42<mfrisch>workd
15:43<scorpion2185[m]>https://anydifferencebetween.com/difference-between-touchpad-and-trackpad/
15:43<scorpion2185[m]>how can I enable the touching scroll? is a part of the hardware.
15:43<mfrisch>its two fingures
15:43<mfrisch>on mine
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15:43<mfrisch>fingers
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15:44<scorpion2185[m]>mine has a scroll thing on 1 side
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15:47<scorpion2185[m]>and I will try again (now i am on a desktop) but gnome settings didn't work if I remember right. and there is no scroll and left click option only middle and right button on gnome
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15:49<mfrisch>I did the tap to click and two finger scrolling. tweakui has mouse stuff too.
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15:49<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, what is the exact command you used to copy the live .iso onto your USB stick?
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15:50<scorpion2185[m]>only tweaks has touchpad option
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16:02<StyXman_>has anyone any hands on exp with https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Book-Pulse-15-Gen1.tuxedo or any other model from this brans?
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16:04<sney>StyXman_: looking at the specs, that should work out of the box with bullseye + non-free firmware. the individual components are all ones we've seen before.
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16:04<fishbrum>Sqrt{not}: sudo dd bs=4M if=/path/to/debia.iso of=/dev/sdb status=progress oflag=sync
16:04<StyXman_>I'm mostly interested on the physical feel of it
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16:05<StyXman_>I'm >< this close to buy one, but for 1.5k i hesitate
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16:08<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, that looks correct. I'd like to try it here -- can you share the URL to the image you used?
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16:17<fishbrum>Sqrt{not}: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/bullseye_di_rc3-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/debian-live-blseye-DI-rc3-amd64-xfce.iso.torrent
16:17<fishbrum>got this torrent
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16:20<FLD>is there a debian channel suite for raid/mdadm talk?
16:21<sney>FLD: you can ask raid support questions here
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16:24<FLD>i was just wondering about this behavior of raid1 with a single active write-mostly device, when you try to add a device to such array it's not added as an active member but a faulty one instead: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/c5108a84/
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16:26<sney>I haven't used mdadm in a while, so maybe someone else will pitch in, but does mdadm have an explicit online/clear command that will cause it to rebuild to the new disk?
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16:34<FLD>afaik. md is supposed to automatically assign a newly added member as a spare and then start rebuilding onto it if the array is degraded
16:35<jkc>Sqrt{not}: None of that is needed. Just `cp deb.iso /dev/sdb`
16:35<jkc>fishbrum: ^ Helpful for you, too. :)
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16:37<sney>jkc: cp is in the install guide, but a lot of people still insist on using dd anyway (maybe the syntax makes them feel more l33t) so if it's having unpredictable results, it's still worth testing.
16:37<jkc>sney: Don't care if they insist. cp is the go-to.
16:38<jkc>Because it works and avoids all of the arcane incantations that people think are needed for dd.
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16:39<sney>right, well this is a support channel, so if regulars like me or Sqrt{not} know about a problem involving dd, then we can relay that to the next user who reports it without having to test anything.
16:39<sney>same as we currently do when a windows user writes an installer with rufus in iso mode.
16:40<jkc>K. Just use cp, moving right along.
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17:09<fishbrum>I used dd because that's what I'm used to, no big conspiracy theory of feeling more leet by using it lol
17:10<fishbrum>installation got stuck at 20% and halted because apt-setup-udeb failed
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17:10<fishbrum>weird, i wonder if it's because i'm using the normal (not the non-free) disc image on a laptop
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17:25<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, thanks, starting the torrent now. jkc, thanks, but I want to test this live image to see about the grub troubles. cp is a good option which I use often, but fishbrum's dd command is also perfectly OK.
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17:27<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, there are lots of installer changes in this RC3, which increases possibilities for new problems. If you have enough info to write a coherent bug or two, that might be helpful. I will try out that .iso image on a laptop here, to see how it works for me.
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17:44<jhutchins>The installer is the last thing to be completely ready for release. It has to icorporate or accomodate all of the other changes made for the new release, so everything else has to be finished before the installer can be.
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17:45<fishbrum>I'm gonna try installing via the nonfree/nonlive xfce ISO and see what happens
17:47<Sqrt{not}>aaaand, the torrent tracker won't give me the file. I may not be much help here after all. I reported the tracker problem on another channel. Stepping back from it for now
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17:47<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, I would suggest the .netinst .iso
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17:49<Sqrt{not}>fishbrum, the non-live images are just generic installer, there probably isn't one specific to xfce
17:50<jhutchins>Yeah, that's a silly convention Ubuntu used to make it seem like they were doing specialty releases for all the popular desktops.
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17:56<cambrian_invader>is it possible to skip hooks from intramfs-tools?
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18:13<Diego>hi
18:13<Diego>need help
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18:28<jhutchins>diegov[m]: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
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18:28<jhutchins>diegov[m]: Oops, sorry.
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18:36<mason>jhutchins: I think a couple spins were doing custom work, weren't they? https://ubuntu.com/download/flavours That said, I don't know if they rebuild anything, or overlay configs, or what.
18:37<mason>Hm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors suggests that I'm wrong.
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21:11<alex11>what's the way people keep on top of backports updates?
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21:12<jochum>alex11: not sure i understand your question
21:13<alex11>as in how do you become aware a package you have installed from backports has an update
21:14<somiaj>alex11: packages you install from backports will be upgraded to the newest version in backports when it is availbie with apt upgrade.
21:14<alex11>i know but you have to know there's an update first
21:14<jochum>somiaj: theres no need for Priority stuff and so on?
21:14<jochum>alex11: through apt show ?
21:14<sarnold>do they not show up when you run apt update && apt upgrade ?
21:14<somiaj>jochum: nope, once you manaually install a backport pacakage, apt will keep it up to date
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21:15<alex11>they show up but my point is how do you get notified
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21:15<somiaj>alex11: just like any other update, run apt update, it will let you know if any upgrades are needed.
21:15<jochum>alex11: you want an email or something?
21:15<alex11>there isn't a mailing list or something? like there's debian-security-announce for stable packages?
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21:15<somiaj>alex11: some desktops have an notification system. apt already has a daily cron job that updates the package database, you could have that email you if there are new packages to isntall.
21:16<somiaj>alex11: only security fixes go though DSAs (note all the upgrdades you get from point release or stable-proposed-updates don't get those either)
21:16<alex11>i know lol
21:16<jochum>Isn't there something like apt-listchanges or so than can email?
21:16<alex11>you're misunderstanding the point of my question
21:17<jochum>alex11: then ask the right way :)
21:17<alex11>i thought it was pretty clear
21:18<alex11>https://lists.debian.org/debian-backports-changes/ found it
21:18<jhutchins>alex11: There is a mailing list that announces new backports and updates.
21:18<alex11>yep
21:18<alex11>that's what i was looking for
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21:19<jhutchins>You can also rely on just running apt update regularly.
21:19<alex11>(though 'get cron to mail you' isn't wrong; i just don't know how to do it)
21:19<somiaj>there is a systemd service that already does that, you can configure it
21:19<alex11>well the thing is, i only run apt update when stable gets a security fix and sometimes that takes a while
21:19<jhutchins>alex11: There are also progrmas that will run update nightly and email you about any new packages (not just backports).
21:20<jochum>I have check_mk with apt checks in place
21:20<jochum>I update once a week every machine that shows up
21:20<jochum>Its hard work to be true
21:20<somiaj>hmm, can't seem any configuration option to configure the report, though APT::Periodic::Verbose "1" will provide some output, unsure where it is sent
21:21<jhutchins>There are packages that do this.
21:21<alex11>i guess it doesn't really matter, i'm unlikely to have problems missing a backport upgrade by a few days
21:21<jhutchins>The wheel already exists.
21:22<jochum>Anyone has a good argument against automatic updates for my boss?
21:22<jhutchins>alex11: On the other hand, it would be pretty rare for a backport update to be so critical that it would need an immediate upgrade. Far more critical to watch main security updates.
21:23<somiaj>jochum: Upgrades can cause regressions, so having someone avaialble to watch them is a good saftey measure
21:23<alex11>yeah and stable gets enough updates already so that i apt update fairly frequently and would see a backports update included in that
21:23<somiaj>jochum: though personally with stable + security fixes, I find it quite useful and mostly painless
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21:23<jhutchins>jochum: Updates are not so critical as to require automated upgrades, and it is best to monitor upgrades when they happen so as to catch any problems or incompatibilities.
21:24<jhutchins>jochum: Also, that's what he's paying you for.
21:24<jochum>somiaj: same, never had troubles - but when I have one, I want to know.
21:24<alex11>yeah unless you're running a server (and maybe even then) that you're not watching very often... i'd never do auto updates
21:24<alex11>though that's just my preference
21:24<somiaj>jochum: Once nice feature of unattened-upgrades is you can have it only upgarde packages from security.debian.org, but not automatically do point releases, since point releases can often be more problematic.
21:25<jochum>somiaj: I see, I see, may I ask you do unattended on some/lots of machines?
21:25<jochum>jhutchins: thats true
21:26<somiaj>I just control a few servers, and use unatteneded-upgrades mostly because (a) I don't want to have to manually upgade security fixes, and (b) if a regression hits they aren't mission critical so to speak.
21:26<somiaj>The actual reality really depends on how you want to deal with any regressions/issues that happen due to upgrades. Debian does a very good job at minimizing these, but they do happen. Fixing after the effect when something fails vs being around can often just be a design choice.
21:28<jochum>Let's say you handle a bunch of shared Webservers, you wouldn't do it, right?
21:28<somiaj>you can also control unattended-upgrades to only upgrade (or not upgrade) a list of accepted packages.
21:28<jhutchins>I really want to find that one that emails you notifications of upgrades. Preferably only for installed packages.
21:28<jhutchins>It's like always using -y on upgrades.
21:28<jochum>jhutchins: I think it's cron-apt
21:29<jochum>jhutchins: like PMT mentions on libera
21:29<somiaj>jochum: a lot is is system design there, though I suspect most prefer to push upgrades in a more orginized fashion vs automatically. Though always best to have a system which can push a critical webserver upgrade though quickly.
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21:30<jhutchins>There's also the occasional "take this action?" hang, although I expect they work around that.
21:32<alex11>the 10->11 upgrade is going to prompt me to keep old configuration files right?
21:32<somiaj>alex11: that is stanadard upgrade whenever a new configuration file is provided (can sometimes happen with point releases too)
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21:38<sney>anything in /etc that is, programs that are configured in ~ won't because apt doesn't look in your home directory
21:39<somiaj>technically only configuration files known by debconf
21:40<sney>yeah. that's automatic for anything installed to /etc, though, I think?
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21:41<somiaj>The package registers its config files, though I suspect you are correct that debian helper flags things in /etc as such. Though for some reason I recall a few files in there not being conf files, I could just have out dated info
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22:14<user01>hi i was here and someone said pavucontrol hadnt been maintained . . . is there a pulse mixer that is recommended? my browser audio is pretty low
22:15<user01>or is that something for an alsa mixer?
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22:15<sney>if pavucontrol is your only option, then keep using pavucontrol.
22:16<sney>but most desktops have something native now that links into pulse
22:16<sney>whatever gui you use, there might be an addon or something
22:16<user01>xfce
22:16<user01>let me check
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22:17<user01>xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin maybe
22:17<sney>that sounds like it
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22:19<user01>well i think that could be the panel, maybe not the mixer
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22:19<sney>if it's anything like the kde plasma one, it is both the panel widget and the mixer
22:20<user01>well, there is a space to put the command for the mixer to use
22:20<user01>in preferences
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22:23<user01>pnmixer maybe . . .
22:26<jochum>I use
22:26<jochum>ups
22:26<jhutchins>IIRC, the applet isn't always installed by default, but you click on the bar and add it once it's installed.
22:26<jhutchins>Current version works great.
22:28<user01>jhutchins, of pavucontrol?
22:28<user01>or ups?
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22:29<user01>pavucontrol was causing issues for me had to remoe
22:29<user01>remove
22:29<user01>the only thing i cant change volume in individual programs now
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22:29<jhutchins>XFCE PulseAudio Plugin.
22:30<user01>jhutchins, i have that-- an individual app volume is low though
22:30<jhutchins>A;sp have pulseaudio-utils.
22:31<jhutchins>Also
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22:31<user01>jhutchins, isnt pavucontrol in that?
22:31<user01>that was causing the issues
22:31<user01>not killing sinks
22:32<jhutchins>I haven't ever tried to use per-app sound settings. I only have one sound output, so a master is adequate for me.
22:32*jochum uses pipewire with pavucontrol, where pavucontrol always worked for him
22:32<jochum>I use per-app sound controls works great
22:33<jhutchins>My volume buttons work, so there's that.
22:35<user01>jhutchins, like my audacious is at normal level, browser is at a lower level
22:36<user01>maybe i should try reinstalling pavucontrol to check it then uninstall it again
22:40<jochum>user01: i have a strong feeling its not pavucontrol your problem
22:40<user01>yes audio was set lower for chrome . . . i uninstalled it
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22:41<user01>jochum, i think it is -- the problem was that it wasn't closing sinks and would send 44.1kHz for 88.2 kHz 96kHz files
22:41<user01>it works perfectly with my DAC without it
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22:42<jochum>user01: pavucontrol controls pulseaudio - maybe its more a problem of that one?
22:43<user01>a pulseaudio problem?
22:43<jochum>yeah
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22:43<jochum>I did that pulseaudio -> pipewire switch some weeks ago, worked great
22:43<user01>well i tried to troubleshoot on the channel and they just said i wasnt closing sinks and i was
22:44*enyc meows
22:44<user01>then they said a debian issue then
22:44<jochum>pipewire can act like pulseaudio and also like jackd
22:44<jochum>and both together ofc.
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22:45<enyc>jochum: oh wow, intrsitnyg... "Whats the catch?"
22:45<enyc>... and, nay distros using pipewire out-of-the-box by-default yet?
22:45<jochum>enyc: intrsitnyg ?
22:45<user01>jochum, is it available for stable?
22:45<enyc>jochum: "interesting" ;p
22:46<jochum>judd: pipewire
22:46<jochum>,v pipewire
22:46<judd>Package: pipewire on amd64 -- buster: 0.2.5-1; bullseye: 0.3.19-4; sid: 0.3.19-4; experimental: 0.3.32-1
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22:46<jochum>I'm on bullseye
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22:47<jochum>enyc: no catch here
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22:47<jochum>enyc: not sure about distros using pipewire as default
22:48<jochum>https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire <-- install howto
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23:51<drake>Hello
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23:53<jochum>hey
23:54<urk>!I am wondering if any of the instructions has relevancy after a folder has been copied off to my PC from an Apple computer https://michael.mulqueen.me.uk/2018/03/reading-a-macos-harddisk-on-linux/ ??? I am still having problems with folder permissions due to Apples file vault.
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23:58*jochum has no clue
23:58<jochum>People on libera tried to help, seems it didn't work, he?
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 04 00:00:26 2021