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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-06

---Logopened Fri Aug 06 00:00:42 2021
00:09-!-diogenes_oftc [~diogenes_@188.208.121.117] has joined #debian
00:09-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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00:11-!-no95 is "realname" on #debian
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00:13-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:13-!-SZO is "anon" on #debian-next #debian
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00:21-!-Blendie [uid453465@id-453465.brockwell.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
00:21-!-Blendie is "wintersky" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
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00:54-!-azubieta60 is "azubieta" on #debian
00:56-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:56-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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01:00-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
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01:09-!-tia3100 is "tia" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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01:24-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
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01:42-!-Telvana2 is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #alpine-devel #oftc #debian #moocows
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01:46-!-DrBunsen [~koen@219-33-144-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #debian
01:46-!-DrBunsen is "purple" on #debian
01:47<DrBunsen>Heya all. I am playing around with IOMMU and passthrough, but I seem to get a kernel panic when booting Debian with IOMMU enabled and having 2 GPUs in my system. Has anyone any experience with this?
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01:49-!-log2 is "snake" on #tor #oftc #debian
01:52<ryo>with iommu yes, enabled on host, figured out groups, pass-through a group
01:53-!-mh3f [~mhowle@cpe-98-25-217-234.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:53<DrBunsen>The problem is that I can't boot up. After grub I go straight to a kernel panic
01:54<DrBunsen>on the host that is
01:54-!-mh3f [~mhowle@cpe-98-25-217-234.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
01:54-!-mh3f is "Matthew" on #debian #packaging
01:54-!-tia3100 [~tia@0002c2f0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:54-!-RedSoxFan07 [~Thunderbi@d-159-250-218-50.ct.cpe.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Quit: RedSoxFan07]
01:54<ryo>intel?
01:55<ryo>I basically used this doc: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PCI_passthrough_via_OVMF
01:56-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:56-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
01:56<DrBunsen>I got an AMD cpu (3900x)
01:57<jochum>DrBunsen: try amd_iommu=pt as kernel flag
01:58<jochum>DrBunsen: hmm pt = better performance != better compatiblity.
01:58<jochum>DrBunsen: can you make a photo of the screen? (Maybe pause-key helps)
02:00<DrBunsen>Hmm, the guide Ryo says I should add iommu=pt, is amd_iommu=pt the same?
02:00<DrBunsen>Also, I will let it crash, but I will have to reboot this system
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02:01-!-ach- is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #spooky #debian
02:01-!-nikita [~nikita@host.164-138-93-232.broadband.redcom.ru] has joined #debian
02:01-!-nikita is "Nikita Petrov" on #debian
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02:15<mangix>anyone use nspawn?
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02:19<jochum>mangix: think K3S does
02:20<jochum>k3s = Rancher K3S
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02:25-!-andibmu is "Andreas B. Mundt" on #debian-meeting #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-edu #debian-lan
02:25<Shark>what's up guys
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02:26-!-DrBunsen is "purple" on #debian
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02:29<DrBunsen>Am back from trying to boot with iommu on. Basically I get a lot of "AMD-Vi: Completion-Wait loop timed out" It tells me a device number, that is the device that corresponds to 1 of my GPUs(rx 580). Not sure what to do next.
02:30-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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02:35-!-magellanino is "Davide Governale 0x772EBD56" on #debian-eeepc #debian-devel-it #debian-devel-changes #debian
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03:03<jochum>did you enable Vt-d not sure about amd's name for it?
03:03<jochum>AMD-Vi I believe
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03:41-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
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03:52<sproutnikus>https://0x0.st/-4E-.pdf
03:52<sproutnikus>oups sorry
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05:01<banym>has someone crypto-policies in use on debian 10/11, is it safe to implement?
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06:01<bremner>banym: it's not in debian 10 or 11, so I guess that's your answer?
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06:01<bremner>check tracker.debian.org for more about why it missed two stable releases
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06:59<pfnoob>hey, is there a way to fix font issues with flatpaks? I installed firefox for example through flathub, and the fonts are completely pixelated
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07:02<sussudio>!frankendebian
07:02<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
07:02<alex11>i would probably ask a more flatpak specific channel, and i'm not really sure how to fix font 'issues', but sometimes fonts are packaged as separate flatpaks
07:03<alex11>flatpaks aren't frankendebians
07:03<alex11>that doesn't apply
07:03<pfnoob>hm as I only have this issue on debian, pretty sure it's a debian bug, not flatpak
07:03<alex11>that's fair, i suppose
07:03<alex11>anyway, that's all i know unfortunately
07:03<sussudio>installing firefox from a third party?
07:03<alex11>yes, it's not a frankendebian
07:04<alex11>flatpaks are supported
07:04<alex11>frankendebians are when you do stuff like add ubuntu PPAs or heavily rely on 3rd party repos or mix stable/testing/sid
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07:05<pfnoob>yeah this is also what I understand from frankendebian, as flatpaks don't interact with the system itself
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07:06<pfnoob>mostly I would say
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07:07<alex11>i can't think of why you only have this problem with debian
07:08<pfnoob>idk I also have issues with media playback in that flatpak firefox
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07:16<bremner>to be pedantic, installing the debian package flatpak is supported, but each flatpak is necessarily supported by whoever made it (or not)
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07:44<banym>bremner, are you aware of a similar method or need all libraries and services be configured one by one?
07:45<bremner>I don't know much about it sorry.
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08:44<drebs>good day, #debian!
08:46<drebs>i've just rebooted a (buster) server after a kernel upgrade (now using 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1) and it switched network interfaces naming scheme back to using eth0/eth1 (instead of enp35s0/enp36s0)
08:47<drebs>we also installed numad right before restarting
08:47<drebs>(just mentioning)
08:48<drebs>i'm trying to find out why it's using the old naming scheme, and how to revert that.
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08:48<drebs>currently looking at the tips in: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames
08:48<drebs>but didn't find anything suspecious yet
08:48<drebs>so i wanted to see if someone has a clue :)
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08:51<vv222[BI]>drebs, check the Stretch → Buster upgrade notes, it might give some hints on where to look: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names
08:51<drebs>vv222[BI], thanks! will look there!
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08:51<azeem>I don't think it was a recent stretch->buster update
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08:51<azeem>or did I get that wrong?
08:52<drebs>it was not
08:52<drebs>just recent kernel upgrade
08:52<azeem>well, it might still be helpful
08:52<drebs>machine was installed with buster already
08:53<vv222[BI]>azeem, I mostly suggested that because it lists some files that are related to these naming schemes ;)
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09:06<petn-randall>drebs: Isn't the "old" naming scheme the one you want? eth0/eth1 that is.
09:07<drebs>petn-randall, i have no personal preference, i'd prefer something that will stick and not need change for longer. So i could go with the old naming now, but i'd prefer to find what changed and go with the new one if i can, i guess.
09:08<drebs>i still didn't find what might've changed. udevadm shows the new names correctly, kernel has no paremeter turning it off, no udev files seem to be in place
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09:09<petn-randall>drebs: Ah, it took me a re-read, I understood it wrong the first time. So you've now got eth0/eth1, but you didn't configure that, and you don't know why?
09:09<drebs>yes
09:09<drebs>that is correct
09:10<petn-randall>drebs: Do you have udev rules setting the interface name maybe?
09:10<petn-randall>drebs: I'd also check the logs, maybe renaming the interfaces failed.
09:12<drebs>nothing on /etc/udev/rules.d, nor in /etc/systemd/network, and i don't immediately see anything weird in dmesg...
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09:13<petn-randall>drebs: IIRC they start off as ethX, and udev does the persistent renaming.
09:16<drebs>hum, syslog says: systemd-udevd[14146]: Using default interface naming scheme 'v240'.
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09:30<pfnoob>another question, is it normal when using preseed, that even with network disabled, it asks for a route?
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09:44<drebs>petn-randall, kernel logs indicate that previously i had "
09:44<drebs>sorry
09:44<drebs>petn-randall, kernel logs indicate that previously i had "igb 0000:23:00.0 enp35s0: renamed from eth0" -- but now this line is not there when i boot
09:46<DrBunsen>Hey all, can I easily / safely replace wayland with X? I am playing WoW through Lutris and I am having issues with a jumping cursos(arbitrairy moves). I read that this was a problem with wayland and be solved by using X.
09:47<pfnoob>DrBunsen yeah, that's an issue with WoW itself, afaik as it tracks the cursor differently. I never had figured it out for Wayland, that's why back in the day I stayed on Xorg
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09:50<DrBunsen>pfnoob: Never meant to blame wayland, I just meant it happens with wayland and WoW combo. So no problems with going with X instead of wayland?
09:51<vv222[BI]>DrBunsen, a lot of people (including me) are still on X, so it should be quite reliable for daily use ;)
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09:55<pfnoob>DrBunsen nope I never had issues. but as I moved on from WoW, I just went back to wayland as I have fewer issues than with X
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09:57<DrBunsen>Ahh cool. I will see how to move back to x
09:59<DrBunsen>Ahh, just in de gdm daemon. Cya all on the othersside. Thanks
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10:39<pi__>time
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10:42<drebs>petn-randall, my current understanding is that network name change was not even attempted, so it does not seem to be the case that it failed.
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10:42<drebs>i'm comparing logs form when it worked and from when it broke
10:43<drebs>i see some ordering differences and some IRQ changes
10:43<drebs>not sure that should be relevant
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10:46<BI4PBV>#quizhiweixing
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10:49*vv221 wonders if BI4PBV was spamming a channel name, or sharing a root password…
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11:00<zleap>Just trying to install 10.0 and got told it can't find an installable kernel
11:00<zleap>does anyone have an ISO that actually works please
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11:02<jelly>zleap, use the latest iso, 10.10
11:02<jelly>not 10.0
11:02<zleap>this is the latest 10.10 (sorry)
11:02<zleap>just getting confusing with nothing working
11:03<zleap>yesterday the 11.0 testing installer broke networking hence I am trying the 10.10 installer
11:03<jelly>do you have unusual hardware? Which specific iso? If you're booting from usb stick, how did you write it?
11:03<zleap>there is no reason why debian should not just install on this latop it is the same as the other one I have
11:03<zleap>hp mini
11:04<zleap>I don't want to risk messing that up, hence I am doing a test install on this one
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11:05<jochum>zleap: any intersting error message?
11:05<zleap>it just says there is no installable kernel
11:05<jochum>zleap: give more info about the hw so we cna google it
11:05<zleap>i am trying again, this is right after partitioning so that worked
11:05<zleap>i can't
11:05<zleap>it gave me the option of carrying on witout a kernel
11:05<jmcnaught>zleap: how did you copy the ISO to USB?
11:05<jelly>tools like unetbootin or rufus or etcher can mess up the way debian-installer finds its components
11:05<zleap>dd
11:06<zleap>which has worked fine before
11:06<jelly>dd directly to /dev/sdX should be fine
11:06<zleap>dd if=path/file.iso of=/dev/sdc status=progress
11:06<zleap>so yeah
11:06<zleap>it works every time doing that
11:07<zleap>this is getting very very stressful given that I don't understand how to get error messages from a netbook to here to send to people to get help
11:07<zleap>esp when normally this stuff just works
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11:10<jochum>zleap: you could make a movie with a phone?
11:10<jelly>sweird. If it's a laptop try the unofficial image with firmware and let it connect to internets and try getting updates (kernel included) from repos
11:10<jelly>!firmware images
11:10<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
11:10<jochum>zleap: yeah that firmware thing!"
11:11<zleap>hence I am using non-free
11:11<zleap>that way the wifi works
11:11<jelly>welp
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11:13<zleap>so just trying the install again, so far ok up to partitioning (which it is doing now)
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11:21<zleap>hmm so it seems to be working now
11:21<zleap>maybe it just glitched before
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12:06<zleap>ok so Debian is now installed fine
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12:06<zleap>now to re-install on primary netbook to fix a few issues and give me a clean install
12:07<joaquinito_01[m]>Hello, i can use Jigdo to build ISO images???
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12:09<pfnoob>joaquinito_01[m] why do you want to build your own iso?
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12:16<mason>joaquinito_01[m]: I don't think Debian uses Jigdo.
12:16<jmcnaught>joaquinito_01[m]: https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#how
12:16<mason>Or perhaps it does now.
12:17<Redentor>deboostrap is great.
12:17<pfnoob>Redentor debootstrap is great for sure, but not for everybody
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12:18<mason>jmcnaught: When did that start?
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12:19<azeem>mason: in 2010 or so
12:19<mason>Hm, some years at least. I guess I'm behind the times.
12:19<mason>azeem: ty, was just looking at archive org and was tracking backwards
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12:20<mason>azeem: Hm, I see it as far back as 2002!
12:20<mason>Archive.org doesn't seem to track https://www.debian.org/CD/ earlier than that.
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12:41<user_>ferwefotkro
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12:47<jhutchins>joaquinito_01[m]: I believe jigdo is a download tool used to get a copy of an iso.
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12:50<EdePopede>kind of. it grabs a metafile and downloads the individual files and assembles the iso locally
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12:51<EdePopede>only used it once and didn't update with later point releases, but iirc it just downloads the diffs.
12:51<mason>...with the nifty bit being that it can be used to distribute updates without retransmitting the whole thing.
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13:01<Konomi>does anyone know how debian chooses swap size during install? I checked the wiki but there's no mention and the handbook talks about system ram in MBs not GBs
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13:07<koollman_>Konomi: I would say 'badly'. I don't think it's documented. The installer is a bit obscure
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13:09<mason>Konomi: fwiw https://wiki.debian.org/Swap
13:09<Konomi>already read it, didn't see anything on recommended sizes or how debian chooses sizes at install
13:09<mason>Right, but it has some relevant information.
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13:10<Sqrt{not}>Konomi, you can choose your own size during install
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13:16<koollman_>ah, found it, I think (or rather, one way it can be chosen): https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/partman-auto/-/blob/master/recipes/home (that would be for automated partitionning, with separate home partition). It would take from 100% to 200% of ram size depending on what's left once the rest of the space is divided for other systems
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13:17<koollman_>I remember spending time digging that a few years ago, to try understand how to do a decent preseed install :)
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13:17<koollman_>and, I would strictly disagree with that sizing, of course. But ... swap size is kind of a religious belief :)
13:19<Konomi>koollman_: thanks I was starting to hunt it down myself
13:19<mason>I just noticed something that's probably relevant. In the installer source package, there's a notion of minimum-memory-with-swap which says "minimum total memory (RAM + swap is ok) needed"
13:20<koollman_>for tiny systems it might help
13:20<mason>Without digging further, that suggests there's a notion pegged as necessary, and that'd make choosing a minimum swap trivial. But I don't know that's what they're doing and I suspect there's also some minimum hardcoded that shows up even on large-RAM systems.
13:20<koollman_>now, imagine you're trying to install a vm with 32GB of ram, and a small-ish disk ... :)
13:22<mason>koollman_: There's also "minimum hard disk size for base system" right before the swap note.
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13:22<koollman_>yes
13:22<Sqrt{not}>mason, That might be the part of the installer that is checking if enough memory for the installer itself to operate
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13:22<mason>I suspect the answer lies in one of the udebs the thing says it downloads.
13:23<koollman_>mason: those would be minimal requirements. the actual partitionning decision if you let the installer pick is really what I linked to
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13:23<mason>Oh, I missed the link. Looking.
13:24<mason>Cool.
13:24<koollman_>I should try the default install some day, with 32GB of ram, and from 64 to 128GB for storage. iirc it will take about half the disk for swap, then
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13:25<mason>I would benefit from a better understanding of how VM works in relation to swap as it all relates to process address space.
13:26<koollman_>well, the idea would be the same for a physical machine, but it is easier to test in a vm
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13:26<koollman_>they work pretty much the same. swap is not differenciated for whatever is running the vm, it's just regular disk storage
13:27<mason>koollman_: Ah, sorry. I meant virtual memory, not machine.
13:27<koollman_>ah.
13:27<koollman_>the base relation is that you can't use more than memory+swap space, in general
13:28<mason>koollman_: Like, processes get so much space, and it can exceed physical RAM, and communal wisdom is that you want SOME swap, so I wonder if having any swap means a VM system can do something that it can't do with no swap present, regardless of size.
13:28<koollman_>then, depending on various settings, you can usually allocate more than that, with some limitations and the risk of invoking the oom-killer process
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13:28<mason>Yeah, the "various settings" might be the area of most interest.
13:29<koollman_>right. /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory is the base one for this
13:29<mason>Ah, neat.
13:29<koollman_>default value in most systems will let rpocess allocate more space than is available in total
13:29<koollman_>(allocate, not use)
13:29<mason>So it's not wildly complex then, it's literally memory+swap and the potential to go beyond based on that flag.
13:30<koollman_>that's a really bad oversimplification. But yes ;)
13:30<koollman_>then, if the memory space (swap+ram) gets too full, the oom-killer system is invoked, and some process dies based on many heuristics
13:31<mason>Mm, with the heuristics being a source of much debate.
13:31<koollman_>like how much ram it uses, scoring from various properties, and some adjustment scores that can be set by the system or admins
13:32<koollman_>(which ends up in /proc/[process_pid]/oom_score)
13:34<mason>all zero here with overcommit_memory disabled, hrm
13:34<koollman_>https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/vm/overcommit-accounting (default mode is 2)
13:34<koollman_>err, sorry, no. default is 0
13:34<koollman_>2 is the 'strict' mode
13:35<mason>Neat.
13:36<koollman_>that is, don't let process allocate more space than (memory * overcommit_ratio / 100) + swap space
13:36<mason>with 50% being default there
13:36<mason>This is neat stuff. Thank you for the links.
13:37<koollman_>yes, default ratio is 50. so, if overcommit_ratio is 2: do not let allocated process space go over more than half the ram, plus swap space (which could be 0)
13:37<koollman_>if you want to mess with those values, I advise increasing the ratio first, then changing the mode :)
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13:39<koollman_>typically, some databases like postgresql advise using overcommit_memory=2, to avoid oom-kill as much as possible, and to have the capability to handle lack of memory by receiving an allocation error rather than getting an unblocable killed
13:39<koollman_>*kill
13:40<mason>Yeah, as long as they can gracefully handle that, it seems better.
13:40<koollman_>and, some other services (redis, I think, does that) advise using overcommit_memory=1, always let overcommit happen (because some operations will require allocating a lot of address space, even without using it)
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13:42<koollman_>typical example would be calling 'fork()'. technically, it allocates twice the memory used by the process, without using it. if the process is huge ... that's a lot of space allocated but not used, and you want a very lenient virtual mem system to let you do it :)
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13:47<mason>koollman_: That's always struck me as an odd choice. I've always felt that fork should have been designed from the ground up to embed exec functionality rather than depending on application behaviour to decide if it's going to exec something.
13:47<mason>(So, a fork call as it stands, but also a fork-and-exec combo call to skip the large allocation.)
13:48<mason>But anyway, now I'm veering wildly off-topic.
13:48<rudi_s>There's vfork()
13:49<rudi_s>(Not that it behaves differently nowadays.)
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13:50<TobiX>mason: Chris Down has written and talked a lot about memory management on Linux, if you want to go deeper, for example: https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html
13:51<mason>rudi_s, TobiX: ty, more to read
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13:54<mason>TobiX: He evidently does a vast number of things: https://chrisdown.name/
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14:00<koollman_>mason: I really wish I could run all my systems with overcommit_memory=2. But since it's not the default ... software gets written with very different expectations
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14:00<spawacz>It may be not necessaeily debian question, but why is ./configure not using all cores but executing all steps sequentially?
14:01<TobiX>koollman_: I think the last "mainstream" OS without overcommiting was Solaris
14:01<spawacz>The toolchain discovery is perfectly parralelizable, isnt it?
14:01<jhutchins>spawacz: I'm pretty sure it's a shell script, and shells don't thread.
14:01<koollman_>spawacz: because it is very very sequentially written
14:02<sney>some autoconf versions might be able to thread, but it's not common. the 'make' step is the important one anyway, and you can -j
14:02<spawacz>yeah i know about make
14:02<TobiX>configure is generated by templating and was designed to be run on basically any POSIXy (ans ome not-so-POSIXy) UNIX systems
14:03<TobiX>some
14:03<sarnold>I'm pretty sure I've seen the ./configure step absolutely swamp the 'content' compilation step before..
14:03<koollman_>sney: depends on what you're compiling. I know many programs where configure is the longest step :)
14:03<jhutchins>spawacz: If these were things that you ran regularly and repeatedly, it might justify some time optimizing them, but they don't take that much time as is.
14:03<spawacz>like coreutils for example
14:03<sarnold>I think the zfs dkms packages spend something like 90% of their time in ./configure because single threaded :(
14:03<koollman_>(because compiling tiny c files is fast and parallelize well)
14:03<sney>autoconf is also losing popularity to other build systems. maybe those other options are more parallel
14:03<jhutchins>spawacz: Would you really want multiple thread writing the config file?
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14:04<TobiX>Most things that autoconf does aren't really needed nowaydays if you only target Linux & the BSDs
14:04<spawacz>no, i wouldnt like to cause multiple threads ro wrote to a single file, but discover the system in parallel
14:05<jhutchins>spawacz: How much time would you expect to save?
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14:07<spawacz>why would my cores be idle when they can be used? any timesave is better than none. I suspecg in many cases the speedup would be significant
14:07<TobiX>The easiest way to speed up autpconf is to replace it with a modern build system
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14:21<colo>I'd like to remove exim4 from my debian installation and switch to a minimal MTA that does local delivery only. any recommendations? (running bullseye)
14:23<sney>exim4-daemon-light is already supposed to be that, if you dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config it should have a menu option for local delivery (I'm not sure what the default is)
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14:27<sney>otherwise, postfix is about the same size on disk, also has some debconf-prompted default setting options and is (IME) more well documented, in case you need to make sure it will behave a certain way in a specific situation
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14:29<colo>sney, I found "dma", and will try that :) I really only need local user mailbox deliver.
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15:40<vv221>colo, this dma sounds like a nice local MTA, please consider sharing some feedback if you end up trying it ;)
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16:02<jhutchins>Sendmail forever!!!
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16:14<Synthea>Someone could tell me why this is present in ~/.profile and not in ~/.bashrc thus preventing its activation in ssh connections? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/c11d0ce2/
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16:18<imMute>Synthea: tracking down where that file comes from I find this: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doko/+junk/pkg-bash-debian/revision/1 so the "why" is probably lost to the ether after a decade
16:18<sarnold>Synthea: hmm, I think something else may be wrong, note from the bash(1) manpage: When bash is invoked as an interactive login shell ... it first reads and executes commands from the file /etc/profile, if that file exists. After reading that file, it looks for ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, and ~/.profile, in that order, and reads and executes commands from the first one that exists and is readable.
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16:23<Synthea>sarnold, ssh doesn't start an interactive login shell by default
16:23<sarnold>Synthea: it doesn't? o_O
16:23<Synthea>sarnold, https://superuser.com/questions/564926/profile-is-not-loaded-when-using-ssh-ubuntu
16:25<Synthea>so, unless they did it casually, they wanted this to happen only in interactive shells, but why?
16:25<sarnold>Synthea: ah, I see, we were talking across each other! :D that question and responses are about executing a command with ssh, rather than logging in to a shell via ssh
16:25<sarnold>I was only thinking about logging in to get a shell. heh.
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16:26<Synthea>sarnold, so in theory if you login on a shell it should start ~/.profile ?
16:26<Synthea>with ssh
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16:29<imMute>Synthea: only if ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bash_login don't exist
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16:32<jhutchins>Synthea: What's your actual goal?
16:33<Synthea>sarnold, no, apparently it happens with normal SSH logins too. but why not with sudo -u user bash, I don't get why
16:34<Synthea>jhutchins, understanding why some decisions are made, their pros and their cons
16:34<Synthea>*were
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16:35<jhutchins>Synthea: Remember that you're not dealing with one coordinated entity, but a lot of different entities applynig different standards and assumptions.
16:35<imMute>Synthea: when I SSH in, commands in ~/.bash_login get executed, but not stuff in ~/.profile (but that part is already explained)
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16:37<Synthea>jhutchins, that's exactly the point. in theory should be better having that line in ~/.bashrc, right? but they didn't, there must be something missing
16:38<imMute>Synthea: bashrc is executed for non-login shells and thus shouldn't need that kind of setup (since it likely would have already been done by the parent shell process, or futher up)
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16:40<Synthea>imMute, so it's like this for facilitating script execution?
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16:41<imMute>seems like it
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16:47<Synthea>thanks imMute
16:47<Synthea>bye guys
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16:47<vv221>Synthea, I can not telle you why the PATH modification are in ~/.profile by default, but I can tell you why I prefer to set my env variables there: this is a config I want to be shared between all interactive shells I might end up using.
16:48<vv221>Ow, two seconds late…
16:48*vv221 goes back to bed then
16:48<imMute>vv221: doesn't .bashrc also get used by interactive shells?
16:48<imMute>A long time ago I sat down and figured out how all those pieces worked together. I don't remember any of it lol.
16:48<at0m>it gets used by bash
16:49<imMute>at0m: I was about to say that that's what I meant, but now I realize that vv221 might have left "bash" out on purpose
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16:49<at0m>if script uses another shell, $PATH wont get applied and apps will get missed, for example
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17:11<vv221>That’s right, I meant that I keep common settings in ~/.profile, X-specific ones in ~/.xinitrc, Bash-specific in ~/.bashrc, etc.
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17:15<lastrodamo>hi
17:16<lastrodamo>how can i return to nouveau driver
17:16<lastrodamo>or reconfigure the nouveau driver
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17:18<jhutchins>lastrodamo: return from what?
17:19<lastrodamo>before installing nvidia-driver :(
17:20<lastrodamo>I have purge every nvidia-*
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17:22<sney>nouveau is built in, so when you disable nvidia-driver nouveau will be enabled automatically
17:23<sney>you might make sure you still have xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, but you probably do
17:23<xormor>lastrodamo: sudo remove --purge *nvidia*
17:23<xormor>lastrodamo: sudo apt install --reinstall xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
17:23<sney>there is not really any point in "purge" with nvidia-driver, since it barely has config files
17:23<lastrodamo>thank you sney
17:24<sney>np
17:24<lastrodamo>I'm an old user and I like edit xorg.conf file
17:24<lastrodamo>but nothing to do now
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17:24<lastrodamo>xormor, thanks
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17:27<lastrodamo>xormor, sney all is ok now
17:27<lastrodamo>thanks
17:27<lastrodamo>I understand linus with Nvidia FY
17:32<jhutchins>sney: Don't you have to un-blacklist nouveau?
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17:35<sney>jhutchins: the blacklist file is shipped in the nivida-kernel-support package and removed when that package is removed. on reboot, nouveau is no longer blacklisted.
17:36<sney>so if the user does 'apt purge *nvidia*' or whatever, so goes the blacklist
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18:05<jhutchins>sney: Ah, that makes sense. (I've been vaguely following this as it was cobbled together from "never touch Nvidia" to "it's all in-house now").
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18:13<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to put a whole text file into the buffer so I can paste its content somewhere?
18:14<vv221>EmleyMoor, on X you can use xclip.
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18:18<Izty>Hello, can I use "deb https://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main" in my sources? I say that security.debian.org cannot be used with https but I tried and I saw no errors.
18:18<Izty>I saw that*
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18:24<jhutchins>EmleyMoor: cat
18:24<RoyK>Izty: it can be used with https - it really *should* be used with https
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18:27<himesama>nice. when did this occur?
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18:28<Izty>Ok, thanks! Because https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList says "The security.debian.org hosts currently do not have publicly verifiable SSL certificates on HTTPS and hence cannot be used with HTTPS at the moment."
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18:30<Izty>RoyK: Are "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" and "deb https://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" the same? Should I use the first one or the second one?
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18:36<rudi_s>!security
18:36<dpkg>Put "deb http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free" in your /etc/apt/sources.list file to keep up-to-date on security updates in <stable>. Run "aptitude update" and "aptitude upgrade" (or "aptitude full-upgrade" if the updates are kept back). Also ask me about <dsa>, <security backports>, <oldstable security>, <testing security>, <unstable security>, <browser security>.
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18:36<rudi_s>http vs. https doesn't matter that much for debian mirrors.
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18:40<jhutchins>https is unnecessary overhead for file transfers, but the "HTTPS Everywhere!" stampeed was easier to roll with than resist.
18:43<Sqrt{not}>%bullseye sources.list
18:43<dselect>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main". Note that bullseye does not yet have security support and is a <moving target>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-security>, or <bullseye-updates> and "man sources.list".
18:45<Izty>Hmm, dpkg first said "security.debian.org" then dselect said "deb.debian.org/debian-security"
18:46<somiaj>they are just two different factoids, security.debian.org moving to the deb.debian.org redirector is fairly recent. Both work
18:46<Sqrt{not}>Izty, the dpkg factoid is for buster
18:46<Sqrt{not}>the factoid i invoked from dselect is for bullseye
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18:47<Izty>Ah right, my bad sorry
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18:48<Izty>So starting from Bullseye I can just use deb.debian.org everywhere
18:48<Izty>Sqrt{not}: Would it be "deb.debian.org/debian-security" or "deb.debian.org/debian-security/" with a '/' at the end?
18:48<sney>both work
18:49<Izty>Ok :)
18:49<Izty>Well, I'm ready to switch on the 14th then
18:49<Izty>Thanks :)
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23:05-!-endermen109464 is "[https://kiwiirc.com] endermen1094" on #debian
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23:07<endermen109464>how can i have a Debian cliant join a distcc server
23:09-!-dr_bot [~dr_bot@000294a2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:10<endermen109464>I used sudo apt install distcc and not sure how to continue
23:11<somiaj>someimtes /usr/share/doc/packagename has info that can help
23:12<endermen109464>ok will check from the host
23:12<somiaj>also read the manual pages and such (I don't use this so I don't know), just saying debain packages usually come with documentation
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23:20<Sqrt{not}>%distcc
23:20<dselect>distcc is a distributed C/C++ compiler, allowing load balancing of large compilations (e.g. kernels) across two or more locally networked systems. A HOWTO for Debian is at http://myrddin.org/howto/using-distcc-with-debian/ . <zeroconf> IPv6 parsing is broken (Debian bug #481951). See also <ccache>. http://distcc.samba.org/
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23:51-!-nikita is now known as Local_KIngs
23:51-!-Local_KIngs is now known as Local_Kings
23:52-!-tallbarr [~none@0002bff2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:53-!-tallbarr [~none@0002bff2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:53-!-tallbarr is "none" on #debian
23:53-!-ChromaCat248 [~ChromaCat@0002b9d5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:54-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:56-!-awal1 [~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-21-70-55-158-10.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:57-!-newtons [~newtons@101.39.196.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit []
23:58<alex11>there really us
23:58<alex11>grr
23:58<alex11>there really is free software packages for everything isn't there
23:58<alex11>love it
23:59<alex11>(re: distcc)
23:59-!-Abrax [~Abrax@ip98-168-63-15.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
---Logclosed Sat Aug 07 00:00:26 2021