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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-10

---Logopened Tue Aug 10 00:00:48 2021
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01:39<mendel_munkis>how dangerous is it to run sudo sshfs ...?
01:42<grawity>not really dangerous, but why would you need it
01:43<mendel_munkis>ddrescue to a remote drive without messing with permissions
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01:51<TheBigK>mendel_munkis: i would use pipe ...
01:51<TheBigK>then u dont need to mess with sshfs
01:59<jochum>TheBigK: pipe vs. sshfs, please explain?
02:00<jochum>TheBigK: ahh i see ddrescue
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03:04<artur>ok
03:04<artur>wrr
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03:08<Marco>Hi there
03:10<Marco>I am trying to get puppetdb up and running on debian, as there seems to be no package in debian itself i tried it with the puppetdb docker container from puppet itself, but as faar as i figured out it seems not to be compatible with the puppet on debian because the use different ruby version. Maybe someone has some hints for me?
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03:11<Marco>Sorry maybe some more context, i am running debian bullseye, puppet 5.5.22-2, puppetdb on docker, release 5.26
03:12<Anarka>try #debian-next for tesing/bullseye
03:12<Anarka>,v puppetdb
03:12<judd>Package: puppetdb on amd64 -- buster: 6.2.0-3; sid: 6.2.0-5
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03:13<xormor>,testing
03:13<xormor>!testing
03:13<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
03:13<themill>I'd say that #debian needs to be able to handle questions about bullseye at this stage
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03:54<grtestuser>whats a good tool to repair a failed disc?
03:55<grtestuser>or better to repair the grub
03:56<mendel_munkis>what failed about it
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03:57-!-kwilczynski is "Krzysztof Wilczyński" on #debian #ck #C
03:57<grtestuser>while booting it stops suddenly
03:58<grtestuser>i guess i should repair the bootloader
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03:59<grtestuser>and that 4 which tool?
04:00<mendel_munkis>If I had to fix grub, I would probably use the debian installer to reinstall it.
04:00<jm_>!fixmbr
04:00<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
04:01<grtestuser>ty
04:02<grtestuser>what do the words in <> mean. links 2 doc?
04:02<avu>grtestuser: other things you can ask the bot about
04:02<avu>!dual boot guide
04:02<dpkg>This describes a system that can boot to two different OSs. Debian's installer and grub boot loader are quite good at co-existing with other OSes on the same machine. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s05.en.html and https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/Windows and <supergrub>
04:02<mendel_munkis>I really need to get around to learning nix pipes.
04:03<grtestuser>should i find this doc on my life system?
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04:08<grtestuser>nix pipes?
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04:08<grtestuser>no pipes?
04:10<mendel_munkis>grtestuser: that was response to an earlier question, sorry.
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04:10<grtestuser>np
04:10<grtestuser>and what are nix pipes
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04:11<grtestuser>ok, nextime
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04:12<mendel_munkis>nix is an abrreviation for Unix descended OSes, pipes are a tool for communication from one process to another
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04:18<scorpion2185[m]>enyc: there are 2 offtopic I can join one, it seems a dead channel. I joined thursday
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04:30<artur>wwo
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04:32<scorpion2185[m]>wwo?
04:32<artur>dvd
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04:33<scorpion2185[m]>ayfkm
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04:38<grove>!dvd
04:38<dpkg>[dvd] Digital Versatile Disc. To play a video DVD, ask me about <dvd playback>, then use either <totem>, <vlc>, <xine> or <mplayer>. To burn a DVD, ask me about <wodim> or <growisofs>. To download Debian DVD images, ask me about <iso> and <small dvd>. To buy Debian DVDs, ask me about <vendors>. To copy/rip/transcode DVD video, ask me about <dvd ripping>.
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04:55<wyre>hi guys, do you recommend me nftables instead iptables?
04:57<at0m>!nftables
04:57<dpkg>[nftables] The user-space tools for administering <netfilter>, and successor to <iptables>. For usage examples, see http://wiki.debian.org/nftables. http://netfilter.org/ #netfilter on irc.libera.chat
04:58<at0m>wyre: yes, nftables is current, iptables the old..
04:58<wyre>at0m, sure, but why is not nftables installed by default in Debian 10?
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05:05<tarzeau>wyre: because you don't need it, most of the time?
05:05-!-onionadmn is "Onions" on #debian
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05:05<wyre>tarzeau, you don't need either iptables, I guess
05:05<tarzeau>wyre: exactly, and not ipchains
05:05<alex11>yeah you don't 'need' a firewall
05:05<tarzeau>wyre: iptables is not installed by default, is it?
05:06<wyre>tarzeau, but iptables comes by default, doesn't it?
05:06<tarzeau>alex11: yes, because the firewall doesn't add security, it's the system admin that does
05:06<tarzeau>wyre: not that i know?
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05:06<wyre>oh, sorry then, I thought it came by default 😥
05:06<alex11>'priority: important'
05:06<alex11>i'm not sure whether it does or not
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06:36<dmiraj>Hello ladies and gents. Is there a similar utility to `info` that can read through texinfo files?
06:38<alex11>dmiraj, pinfo
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06:41<dmiraj>Thank you :)
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07:27<jgb1984>ok so I just performed my daily "apt upgrade" on a box with debian bullseye, and after a reboot it doesn't come back up. it just halts at "Welcome to grub" after selecting the latest kernel. Switching to the previous kernel doesn't help. any ideas?
07:28<jgb1984>selecting recovery mode doesn't do anything different either
07:28-!-Local_Kings [~nikita@host.164-138-93-135.broadband.redcom.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
07:28<jm_>try booting without quiet option
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07:30<jgb1984>jm_: good idea. did that, but still nothing useful comes on the screen (I'm connected via VNC it's a remote server)
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07:33<jm_>jgb1984: VNC to where?
07:35<jgb1984>ah actually, selecting the previous kernel in recovery mode does work :/
07:36<jgb1984>(previous being 5.10.0-7, new being 5.10.0-8)
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09:12-!-macgyvernt is "macgyvernt" on #debian
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09:13<Cheetah>I'm packaging something and with -Wall -Wextra GCC is complaining of literal binary (0b10101... style) - there's a lot
09:14<Cheetah>I don't really want to convert them to hex or something, what's desirable behaviour for a package here?
09:20-!-aev [~quassel@dsl-hkibng41-54f85e-242.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
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10:34<cc>Cheetah: binary literals are valid C++ but not C
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10:34<cc>it's -pedantic that's causing the warning
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10:42<imMute>that's about as bizarre a warning as complaining about C++98 compat when you explicitly asked for a newer standard revision...
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10:52-!-mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift
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11:00-!-flappy is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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11:08<artur>hi
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11:32<renze>Hello, I´m trying to install Debian via debootstrap in a two stage process (¨debootstrap --verbose --make-tarball output.tar.gz --arch amd64 --variant minbase --exclude=linux --include=ethtool,tuna,linux-image-rt-amd64,nodejs,nginx,grub2,systemd,systemd-sysv,procps,htop,nano,sudo,iproute2,network-manager,debconf,locales,openssh-server,lm-sensors,debconf-utils,dpkg buster tempfolder ´http://debian.snt.utwente.nl/debian/´ followed
11:32<renze> by ¨debootstrap --arch amd64 --variant minbase --unpack-tarball="/absolute/path/to/output.tar.gz" buster /dev/loop0p1¨). The second stage worked up until the end of last week, but now when I run this same command with a newly downloaded tar.gz archive the debootstrap command returns 1 after printing ¨I: Unpacking the base system...¨.
11:32<renze>How can I get more information from debootstrap about the reason for this failure?
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11:32<renze>Note: I exclude the linux package but explicitly install the alternative linux-image-rt package to get the linux-rt kernel on this system.
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11:34<user>yo
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11:35<Guest3826>hi
11:35<Guest3826>hi
11:35<Guest3826>hi
11:35<Guest3826>hi
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12:22<redbrass>I'm using KDE's dolphin for file browsing. It supports fish:// or sftp:// paths for remote folders. I need to specify a port but can't find how to do it with the URL structure. My typical scp CLI command is scp -P 5000 me@remote ./local/path
12:23<redbrass>any tips on the URL format?
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12:23<redbrass>(sorry, only loosely debian related, I know, but I can't pull up the other channels for some reason...)
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12:29<tp43_>Gnome and KDE use wayland. What if I install XFCE4, it will still use wayland/
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12:31<tp43_>I see xfce4 does not support wayland yet. Cool
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12:40<Sqrt{not}>redbrass, just guessing, but wouldn't it be like sftp://me@some.domain.gov:5000/shared/porn/hashes/
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12:43<lifesgood>porn? o.O
12:45<tp43_>What the heck happen to freenode. Sorry for asking here.
12:45-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d43c1b.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Quit: Stay safe!]
12:46<FLHerne>For stupid reasons, the domain was sold to a narcissistic crazy person
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12:47<tp43_>FLHerne, there are so many of them damn it.
12:47<tp43_>Now it is OFTC I see.
12:47<FLHerne>Most of the people who used to operate the network created irc.libera.chat instead, but some channels have moved to OFTC
12:47<tp43_>FLHerne, thx
12:47<FLHerne>Libera is pretty much Freenode-as-was
12:48<FLHerne>OFTC is still quite narrowly-focused on free software
12:48<amacater>Most Debian channels are on OFTC primarily
12:48<amacater>due to politics many years ago ...
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12:51<tp43_>What is up with "su -"
12:51<tp43_>What is all this systemd vs systemV.
12:52<amacater>su - is the way to make sure that you get root's environment.
12:52<mirage>tp43_ `su -` is shortcut for --login. Usage of `-` is old usage, and can still be used for backward compatibility
12:52<amacater>systemd vs SysV - "You must be new around here :) " big controversy
12:53<amacater>Most distributions have now settled on systemd
12:53<vv221>`su -l` is nothing new, it’s only that the `su` without `-l` behaviour has finally been fixed ;)
12:53<tp43_>bunch of scripts are not in the path anymore, so you have to do su - instead
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12:53<tp43_>It is in the release notes.
12:54<tp43_>We are systemD now and used to be systemV for a ages. Or otherway around?
12:55<redbrass>Sqrt{not}: Thanks. I had assemed the colon was the delimiter between host and path. Got it working now.
12:55<amacater>systemd now - that's what caused huge controversy and caused Devuan to fork
12:55<vv221>Well, the $PATH update with `su` without `--login` was an issue in the first place.
12:55<cc>the decision to keep debian channels on oftc has turned out to be a correct one
12:56<lifesgood>my password are all long, what the oftc think about creating a second user, put it in sudo group with NOPASSWD?
12:56<vv221>*cough*devuanisabadjoke*cough*imoutto#debian-rant*cough*
12:57<amacater>Devuan strictly off topic here - this is a Debian support channel
12:57<tp43_>Is there any ssh client/server that can be used from a usb stick, like with windows you have portable apps.
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12:58<amacater>If you boot using Debian live, I'm fairly sure that there's at least a client :)
12:59<tp43_>yeah but I want to use ssh client on an existing linux box that I cannot install program on.
12:59<imMute>tp43_: you could compile the SSH client on that system. or find a binary package that is compatible and extract the ssh executable (and any necessary libraries) from it
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13:00<tp43_>It is an embed device from sierrawireless. They used yocto. But they compiled without opkg.
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13:00<imMute>Sierra Wireless. /me runs away screaming.
13:00<tp43_>imMute, I think that is beyond my capabilities
13:00<tp43_>imMute, I know. tell me.
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13:01<tp43_>The docs got me running circles. THey doing stupid things. Copy to /opt. Take ownship of dir. Give ownship back to root. WTF
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13:02<tp43_>But yocto is awesome right? 10mb linux distro.
13:03<lifesgood>it is very tiresome type password for every sudo call
13:04<tp43_>lifesgood, yeah, sudo is annoying
13:04<lifesgood>but my concern is with security
13:04<lifesgood>sudo is useful
13:04<tp43_>well yeah, ubuntu insists on it. There is not root pass on ubuntu
13:05<tp43_>But debian is much faster than ubuntu
13:08<lifesgood>there are thing that must be kept in trivial user space. once I installed python pip with root and crewed the system, was meant to rly on user space.
13:09<Sqrt{not}>lifesgood, the sudoers credentials are cached for a default 15 minutes, so you don't need to type the password again in that time frame. It is configurable to be other length than 15 minutes.
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13:10<lifesgood>oh good to know Sqrt{not}
13:10<Sqrt{not}>see man 5 sudoers
13:11<Sqrt{not}>lifesgood, it is *NOT* a good idea to have a user who becomes root with no password
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13:13<imMute>tp43_: I wouldn't bother with Yocto unless you're going to replace the entire software stack on the device. And you better have the original sources from the vendor, or you're likely never going to be able to do that.
13:13<imMute>tp43_: but yeah, sudo can be configured to cache credentials for some amount of time. you should turn that on (it sounds like it's turned off)
13:15<Sqrt{not}>tp43_, dpkg can explain a little more about freenode:
13:15<Sqrt{not}>!freenode
13:15<dpkg>freenode is no longer a recommended IRC network for Debian support. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/06/msg00002.html , or see <debian irc>. If you can't find the new IRC home of a project, try looking at https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus
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13:15<tp43_>Sqrt{not}, thx
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13:17<lifesgood>I would like advice from seasoned sysamins concerning password generation. I know it is advised to be long (say 8 or higher) and scramble all charactes includind special, say F6$0C3!gT but it is too dificult to remember such things, memoryze. So what I do is memoryze a long text and catch the firs letters of it, for example jhsgxvtshaop does anyone has a better algorith to build and remeber good passwords?
13:18*Otter smashes crab against some rocks and eats the gooey insides
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13:19<amacater>lifesgood - Three random words may work: NCSC advice in UK
13:19<tp43_>lifesgood, make a long sentence and then encode it. All first letters, all last letters. First letter of first word, second letter of second word, ... First, 3rd, 5th. 2nd 4th, ..
13:19<amacater>https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/the-logic-behind-three-random-words
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13:20<tp43_>My fat bitch step money emptied my bank account and kicked me out on the street. mfbsmembaakmoots
13:20<cc>lifesgood: do not use passwords, use passphrases
13:20<tp43_>2nd letter: yaitomyacnieunht
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13:21<amacater>cc: but probably not "correct horse battery staple" any longer https://xkcd.com/936/
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13:21<tp43_>my more important password is, stay away from slutty women
13:22<cc>as good a passphrase as any
13:22<amacater>20 character random passwords with extra characters are fine _until_ you have to type them regularly
13:23<tp43_>amacater, you gotta be able to type in this day and age. I wish I skipped a month of school as a kid and just type The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
13:24*imMute votes for "use a password manager"
13:24<tp43_>imMute, too risky
13:24<amacater>Or a yubikey
13:24<imMute>using a password manager is too risky? okay then.
13:25<tp43_>Imagine someone find a list of all my passwords.They must go in the head and nowhere else. Oh man, you gotta use an algorithm to memorize them.
13:25<amacater>tp43_ : The keyboard I have in front of me has blank key caps - it improves your typing no end - even if you're a fluent typist.
13:25<amacater>[But I can't use the numeric keypad reliably :) ]
13:25<tp43_>amacater, What about special keys. I still have to look for the @#$% characters.
13:25<imMute>tp43_: password managers encrypt the list of passwords. so now you only need to remember one password.
13:26<cc>some linux distributions allow remote non-password root logins, but debian does not
13:26<amacater>Those are fine until I switch between Linux and Mac mappings
13:26<tp43_>imMute, I do not trust any encryption unless I wrote it myself. But then again, anyone with the gov't connections to de-crype rsa or what have you can get at you no matter what.
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13:26<cc>I am not sure if it's a good thing or not
13:27<imMute>tp43_: I trust open source encryption waaaay more than anything you or I write. we are not cryptographers, we *will* mess something up.
13:27<amacater>tp43_ : If you trust encryption you wrote yourself - and that isn't peer reviewed by a cryptologist and a mathematician - I can sell you a bridge. Writing encryption is HARD for a reason
13:27<cc>does anyone have a concrete example as to why key-based root login over ssh is a bad thing?
13:27<tp43_>imMute, hmm, I respectfully disagree. If you ask me, I say obscurity is the best security.
13:27<lifesgood>there are situations where the access of a password manager is impossible, in all other cases I use it. Is very helpful.
13:27<imMute>cc: it's the "root" part.
13:27<cc>what about it?
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13:28<vv221>lifesgood, try pwgen for generating passowrds: https://packages.debian.org/buster/pwgen
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13:28<amacater>If you've got one root key that will allow you to log in - how are you keeping it secure?
13:28<vv221>It tends to generate passwords that are easy to memorie, but hard to guess.
13:28<imMute>cc: some people think that root should never be logged in, you should use sudo for all escalations
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13:28<lifesgood>I| am satisfyed with keepassx
13:28<vv221>See for example the output of `pwgen -y 16`
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13:28<amacater>At least an unprivileged user and sudo - especially with named commands - is marginally safer
13:28<cc>imMute: is there a real gain from that?
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13:29<imMute>cc: yes. sudo logs the command that was run and who ran it. it can also restrict users to only being able to run certain commands.
13:29<cc>that assumes more than one user with sudo access
13:29<cc>what if there is only 1 person?
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13:30<vv221>cc, on my own machines, where I amd the only admin, I tend to go with a dedicated root account with its own password.
13:30<imMute>cc: there's also the concept of least privilege. you should work in a shell with non-root permissions, only escalating when necessary.
13:30<cc>this concept justifies extra typing?\
13:30<cc>no, I think not
13:30<imMute>cc: extra typing? "sudo " is too much for you?
13:30<vv221>sudo I use mostly when I want to give some group access to specific command with elevated privileges.
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13:31<vv221>Often to interact with hardware (like network interfaces, or screen backlight).
13:31<cc>imMute: yeah, "sudo " 8000 times a day on 40 servers is a little much
13:31<amacater>Working as root can be risky - /me had to do a permission fix and chmod the other day and did it incorrectly -== lots of backout work
13:31<imMute>cc: okay, now we're into the land of "why the hell aren't you using Ansible/Salt/Chef/Whatever"
13:31<vv221>amacater, you would have done the same error with sudo, I’m quite sure of that ;P
13:32<imMute>vv221: not if the permissions change didn't require root perms in the first place
13:32<amacater>I forgot the mandatory pwd
13:32<lifesgood>once I managed to use 100 chars password, was a big mistake, I got a 1 go after an average of 5 failures.
13:32<vv221>imMute, I assume people are not using a root shell for actions not requiring such privileges ;)
13:32<imMute>vv221: you assume too much.
13:33<bremner>except for the guy who wants to run gnome as root
13:33<cc>imMute: I do, too :) and the question about how they should login is an interesting one as well
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13:33<vv221>bremner, as long as he is the only one on the channel, this is quite funny ;) I just hope he won’t bring friends…
13:33<imMute>cc: whatever. if you want to log in as root, go right ahead. I'm just answering the question of why people don't like letting root have a login.
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13:34<vv221>imMute, to be fair most of the no-root-password systems I’ve seen use sudo with all powers instead. So I fail to see the improvement.
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13:35<vv221>(something along the lines of `%sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL`)
13:35<imMute>vv221: in my use case (single user systems), I like having a single shell that I can use all the time with a quick way to escalate certain commands when needed. then I don't need to have two shells (my user plus roots) open all the time.
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13:35<vv221>I understand, I actually use that on one of my personal laptops.
13:36<imMute>but why? you *just* said it's not an improvement...
13:36<vv221>But to me this is more a matter of taste than a real difference in system administration.
13:36<cc>for example, freshly provisioned debian installs do not have sudo (last I checked) if you specify a root password in the installer
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13:36<vv221>imMute, because I am not obtuse, so I try different things ;P
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13:36<vv221>It is not better in my opinion than a dedicated root password, but not worse either.
13:36<amacater>cc: If you _don't_ specify a root password, you get sudo. If you do, it's assumed you know how to use it :)
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13:41<lifesgood>my last company oblied all to change password once a month. was a nightmare with time. with time people was doing tomatoe6 avocado9 hahhaha
13:41<vv221>That’s not very smart.
13:42<lifesgood>I agree
13:42<tylerchambers>vv221: using sudo instead of a dedicated root account makes auditing easier.
13:42<vv221>tylerchambers, in the context of a personal computer with one admin, it does not sound like a killer feature ;)
13:43<vv221>​/root/.bash_history does the same thing
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13:44<imMute>vv221: you asked for advantages. if you wanted "advantages for my specific use case" you should ask for that instead.
13:45<vv221>OK, I did not realize this was a bad faith context, I’m out.
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13:46<imMute>vv221: says the guy who dismisses every given advantage because it's not applicable to his use case.
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13:48<vv221>*plonk*
13:48<lifesgood>some cash collected by debian should be used for advertisement. still today many companys use windows without known that linux can do everything of it and for free. many cash is wasted in public and private companys.
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13:49<lifesgood>advertisement is the soul of all business
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13:50<amacater>If you've been around as long as Debian - 28 years next week - people have heard of you :)
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13:51<lifesgood>it is so powerful that someone can sell shit with enough propaganda
13:51<vv221>Debian is not a business ;)
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13:52<tp43_>sierra wireless set their font size based on with width. What idiots.
13:54<lifesgood>ubuntu is more popular worldwide because of propaganda
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13:56<amacater>Ubuntu is popular because it has users : Debian has developers :)
13:56<sney>ubuntu is popular worldwide because of luck and timing as much as because of marketing.
13:56<sney>propaganda... here's some tinfoil for your hat
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13:57<dreamer>"pretty buttons"
13:57<dreamer>poop-colored buttons
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14:01<vv221>Ubuntu is popular because of luck, timing… and proposing a well-polished user experience, based on very solid foundations.
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14:02<captnfab>ubuntu is unpopular
14:02<lifesgood>In my job I saw many choices driven to proprietary software only because of ignorancy of similars foss. luckyly there is a wave of recent behavior to FOSS software.
14:02<sney>in the mid 00s everyone was trying to figure out how to do linux on the desktop and have it be accessible for people other than nerds who read manuals. ubuntu got the closest. there are a lot of factors there, but it easily could have been someone else
14:04<lifesgood>in fact sney debian became much more user friendly with time.
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14:05<alex11><in 10 years> "wow, remember when debian was user friendly and not the mess it is now"
14:05<sney>that's largely because of the software that debian integrates. some of which was probably inspired by ubuntu, but also just generally the evolution of computing
14:05<cc>part of ubuntu's success is that there is a legal entity that sells enterprise support for it
14:06<sney>that came after their initial success, but it's certainly helped to sustain it
14:06<cc>debian does not have that (at least not first party)
14:06<cc>lots of missed business opportunity and $$$$$ if you ask me
14:06<cc>actually more like $$$$$$$$$
14:06<sney>debian, as vv221 pointed out a minute ago, is not a business
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14:07<sney>there are motivations other than cash, you know.
14:07<captnfab>and they have plenty of cash
14:07<captnfab>(since they don't pay people…)
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14:09<vv221>captnfab, are you asking for a raise? ;P
14:09<lifesgood>companyes do their choices motivated by many factors, political also, money running hidden among directors and high elite employers. money is the gear that moves the world dudes.
14:10<cc>it depends on an ownership structure too
14:10<captnfab>vv221: haha, yeah, I'd like a 10% raise, that's nothing, they can afford it
14:10<vv221>Do I read rightly that you ask for +10% on nothing? ;)
14:11<captnfab>vv221: rightyright
14:11<captnfab>I won't ask money from Debian <3
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14:14<cc>I would love to see debian developers/packages maintainers paid for their work
14:14<lifesgood>I agree
14:15<captnfab>some already are, because they're hired by a third party company to work for debian
14:15<lifesgood>debian clould do a policy similar to that of wikipedia, free will donation marketed strongly
14:16<imMute>lifesgood: those huge banners on wikipedia are annoying as fuck.
14:16<jhutchins>!offtopic
14:16<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
14:16<lifesgood>wikipedia could achive their budget very fast
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14:17<SecOPs>so I'm waiting for a chromebook in the mail
14:17<SecOPs>If a chromebook can install GalliumOS as the primary OS (wiping out ChromeOS) theoretically it should be able to run Debian or Slackware 15 beta with the latter solutions just needing more customized tweaking, right ?
14:18<SecOPs>I'm not a debian newbie but I never owned a chromebook before just regular laptops
14:18<sney>SecOPs: probably, if it supports booting something other than chromeos that should be achievable with anything that supports the hardware.
14:19<sney>oh, and it seems gallium is based on ubuntu, so that raises your chances
14:19<SecOPs>ok thanks that is what I thought
14:20<sney>not all chromebooks are created equal though, aiui it varies a lot with the different models and revisions
14:21<SecOPs>I see
14:21<sney>if you do succeed, it'd be great if you'd do a writeup for DebianOn: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn
14:21<SecOPs>ok
14:22<SecOPs>yeah, I figure I can debloat Debian easier than something based on ubuntu
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14:22<SecOPs>and use icewm or cwm or something rather than xfce
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14:22<sney>"bloat" is the least of your worries with anything modern that can do compositing and has fast storage
14:23<SecOPs>bloat is an issue with chromebooks a lot of times due to restricted hard disk or SSD space or whatnot
14:23<sney>usually the sticking point(s) with proprietary hardware is support for specific devices, like wireless and touch input, and dealing with proprietary boot firmware
14:24<cc>wow, there is barely any entries in that DebianOn database
14:25<cc>and all of the hardware is outdated at best
14:25<cc>I guess I should at least add my laptop
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14:26<sney>cc: did you need to do something special to make your laptop work? those pages are specifically for hardware that isn't supported out of the box. if you ran the debian installer and everything was fine, +/- a firmware package, then it's not necessary
14:26<cc>everything worked out of the box
14:26<cc>no issues whatsoever
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14:26<sney>then there is no need for a special page explaining how to do it, is there?
14:26<cc>but I still think it's a useful datapoint
14:27<cc>I had a fairly difficult time answering a question "I need to buy a debian laptop, which model do I get?"
14:27<cc>this took WAY more research that I would have liked
14:27<SecOPs>cc I only ask those questions with OpenBSD
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14:28<SecOPs>cc with linux I just buy any old laptop
14:28<cc>what if you want a new laptop?
14:28<ens>thinkpad ftw?
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14:29<SecOPs>I did not mean 'old' literally but yeah I mean any laptop but openbsd basically runs on all thinkpads and so does linux
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14:29<SecOPs>but sometimes you might need a newer kernel
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14:30<cc>I'm on sid so that's not a problem
14:30<SecOPs>ok then not a problem
14:30<SecOPs>later ya'll thanks
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14:31<sney>anyway, installation-reports is where you're supposed to put info about successful installs, https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/apas04.en.html
14:31<cc>where are they stored/viewed?
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14:32<sney>it's on the bts. I'm not aware of another database collecting them for easy research, but I'm also just reading about this again now
14:32<sney>if you want to contribute a data point though, that's where it should go, because there are many others there as well
14:33<sney>e.g. #987880
14:33<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/987880 in installation-reports (open): «installation-reports: Bullseye on Lenovo X200 with libreboot BIOS»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-05-01; last modified: 2021-05-01.
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14:35<cc>thats a rather painful interface to browse through them to be honest
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14:35<sney>I agree, I'm only showing you where they are. I'm not sure if there are plans to collate this data somehow
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14:37<cc>does debian certify rack servers or laptops?
14:37<cc>like https://ubuntu.com/certified
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14:39<sney>there's been some discussion of doing that in the future, but it doesn't currently exist
14:39<cc>I think it would be a good idea
14:39<sney>sometimes hardware vendors will list debian as being supported, though that is under their own power
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14:40<sney>some discussion here, https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2017/05/msg00016.html
14:40<cc>you absolutely need to know if the network interface and the raid controller on server will work out of the box on a server
14:41<cc>I'll read that thread, thanks sney
14:41<sney>np
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15:09<scjensen>hi, I am unable to join #debian-offtopic - anyone know why?
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15:10<sarnold>scjensen: you need to register and verify an account with nickserv in order to join #debian-offtopic
15:10<lifesgood>scjensen, I believe you must be identifyed and verifyed
15:10<sarnold>scjensen: /msg nickserv help register to get started
15:10<scjensen>ah thanks
15:10<scjensen>I did not get an error prompt, which is what I assumed should happen. thank you!
15:11<lifesgood>scjensen, msg nickserv identify password nick
15:11<lifesgood>msg NickServ checkverify
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15:14-!-mith__ is "realname" on #debian
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15:15-!-mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift
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15:19<lifesgood>when people ask me help I try to be a mom. Is terrible when someone says see the man, see the help
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15:23-!-srgrint is "Simon Richard Grint" on #debian
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15:30-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux
15:30<da025prr>hi people
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15:34<lifesgood>hi
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16:18-!-boistordu_ex is "realname" on #tor-project #tor-onions #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #python #pulseaudio #postgresql #php #openjdk #OpenBSD #oftc #netdev #NetBSD #mitmproxy #llvm-build #kvm #java #ifupdown-ng #help #gstreamer #guardianproject #haiku #hackerspaces #haskell #gfortran #freenode #gentoo #dri-devel #debian-xfce #debian-ubuntu #debian-raspberrypi #debian-qemu #debian-offtopic #debian-nginx #debian-live #debian-haskell #debianfr #debian #c++ #C #bash #archlinux
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16:48-!-futune is "realname" on #debian #alpine-linux #postmarketos
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17:01-!-ax5623 is "truth" on #linux #debian-next #debian
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17:33<r4fkramer>Hello everyone. Please, is there any way to be able to increase the resolution of this virtual machine screen (virt-manager) through some command by debian ?
17:33<r4fkramer>https://imgur.com/gallery/OSjlETl
17:33<r4fkramer>I've already looked for all the graphical configuration options in the application itself, and there is no such configuration possibility.
17:36<enyc>r4fkramer: I wonder if there is a libvirt channel you should ask in e.g. libera.chat has one but not that many users
17:36-!-intel [~intel@2806:2f0:1141:b6b4:ccec:b3f0:6fa3:5f0c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:37<r4fkramer>Fine enyc, thank you for answering me :)
17:37<jmcnaught>There is #virt on OFTC (this network).
17:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 965] by debhelper
17:38<jmcnaught>r4fkramer: have you tried making the VM full screen? Or changing the resolution from inside the VM?
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17:41<r4fkramer>Hi jmcnaught, I was sure anyone would ask me like that. There's the option 'fullscreen' in virt-manager menu. But the final result is not much different from what is in the print I sent for you to see
17:41-!-daniel-molina [~daniel-mo@65.pool85-57-237.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #debian
17:41-!-daniel-molina is "Daniel" on #debian #debian-next
17:42<r4fkramer>jmcnaught, thank you for information :)
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17:44-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
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18:32-!-BrianG61UK is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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18:34-!-Brainium is "brainium" on #debian-social #linux #virt #C #tor-project #debian-br #debian-kde #debian
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18:38-!-richard_h is "purple" on #debian
18:39-!-BrianG61UK [~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:994b:13cd:c8da:96fc] has joined #debian
18:39-!-BrianG61UK is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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18:41-!-BrianG61UK_ is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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18:51-!-nahomy is "nahomy" on #debian #osm-diversity
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18:52-!-thiras is "Ant Somers" on #tor #debian
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18:55-!-futune is "realname" on #debian #alpine-linux #postmarketos
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19:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 953] by debhelper
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19:12-!-Alberto is "realname" on #debian
19:12-!-Alberto is now known as Guest3860
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19:27-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-next #debian
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19:31-!-lucas_ is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-br #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-bsb
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19:33-!-lucascastro is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-bsb #kernelnewbies #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-br
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19:35-!-wulkan_ is "wulkan" on #debian
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19:37-!-aev is "Aulis Vainionpää" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #moocows #tor-mobile #tor-project #debian
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19:48-!-jstein is "Jonas Stein" on #debian #kernelnewbies @#fsfe @#mint #freedesktop @#trolug
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19:54-!-jj5 is "jj5" on #freedombox-ci #freedombox-dev #debian-raspberrypi #freedombox #debian-kde #debian
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20:05-!-ymusachio is "Yuri Musachio" on #debian
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20:05-!-thiras is "Ant Somers" on #tor #debian
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20:16-!-Gilou is "realname" on #debian
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20:17-!-lucasmsoares96 is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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20:17-!-jmic is "Jeff Mickey" on #linode #debian-xfce #debian-next #debian
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20:22-!-jj5 is "jj5" on #freedombox-ci #freedombox-dev #freedombox #debian
20:24-!-TTwrs [~TTwrs@c-67-169-185-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:24-!-TTwrs is "realname" on #tor #debian
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20:25-!-quarkyalice is "realname" on #postmarketos #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-lowlevel #asahi #asahi-dev #asahi-gpu #asahi-re #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #alpine-docs #alpine-offtopic #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #quarky #lain #moocows #oftc
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20:26-!-NomadJim_ is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
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20:26-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
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20:28-!-pvoigt is "pvoigt" on #grml #debian
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20:29-!-pvoigt is "pvoigt" on #grml #debian
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20:34-!-aloo_shu is now known as Guest3861
20:34-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.82.31] has joined #debian
20:34-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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20:49-!-macgyvernt [~holoirc@031011129247.dynamic-3-poz-k-0-3-0.vectranet.pl] has joined #debian
20:49-!-macgyvernt is "macgyvernt" on #debian
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20:53-!-the4oo4 is "the4oo4" on #privacytech #mobian #debian-offtopic #debian
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21:00-!-jfoy is "jfoy" on #debian #alpine-linux #alpine-offtopic #debian-offtopic
21:00-!-futune [~futune@2a04:981:3f00:900::bad] has joined #debian
21:00-!-futune is "realname" on #debian #alpine-linux #postmarketos
21:02-!-Strelnikov [~strelniko@h-98-128-172-245.A785.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
21:02-!-Strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #dfri_se #debian #tor #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project #tor-relays
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21:08-!-Kuririnmagic is "Kuririnmagic" on #infosec #debian-devel-changes ##brazil #tor-south #redditprivacy #ck #oftc #debian
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21:17-!-BrianG61UK is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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21:18-!-BrianG61UK_ is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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21:19-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debian #debconf-miniauditorio #debconf18-taiwan #debian-xfce #debian-ubuntu
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21:24-!-madduck is "martin f krafft, 0x55c9882d999bbcc4, @martinkrafft" on #virt #reclass #oftc #notmuch #dpp #debian-ipv6 #debian-devel-changes #debian @#bar
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21:29-!-mceier is "Mariusz Ceier" on #dri-devel #pipewire #radeon #freedesktop #wayland #llvm #debian-next #debian
21:30-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
21:30-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
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21:43-!-sevu is now known as Guest3864
21:43-!-sevu [~sevu@000261e5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:43-!-sevu is "realname" on #moocows #debian
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21:49-!-nikita is "Nikita Petrov" on #debian
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21:50-!-nikita is now known as Local_Kings
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21:59-!-user [~smuxi@7YZAAB8OY.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:59-!-user is "Your Name" on #debian
21:59-!-user is now known as Guest3866
22:01-!-Guest3866 [~smuxi@7YZAAB8OY.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:02-!-andys [~andys@2001:470:eb24:1:dea6:32ff:fe8a:fd32] has joined #debian
22:02-!-andys is "Andy Smith" on #debian
22:02-!-user__ [~smuxi@0BGAADFH3.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:02-!-user__ is "Your Name" on #debian
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22:04-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian
22:05-!-madez [~madez@ip-176-199-23-87.hsi06.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
22:05-!-madez is "madez" on #debian
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22:06-!-nuc_ is "realname" on #debian
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22:08-!-Hisoka is "unset" on #debian
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22:13-!-tejr is "Tom Ryder" on #perl #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian
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22:14-!-amcclure is "weechat" on #debian
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22:15-!-zebrag is "inkbottle" on #wayland #debian-offtopic #oftc #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies
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22:22-!-banc is "banc" on #debian
22:30-!-chaky1 [~chaky@78-1-207-8.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
22:30-!-chaky1 is "chaky" on #debian
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22:33-!-tonyyarusso is "Anthony Yarusso" on #linode #debian
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22:36-!-chaky1 is now known as chaky
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22:41-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
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22:48-!-mh3f_ [~mhowle@cpe-98-25-217-234.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:48-!-mh3f_ is "Matthew" on #debian
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22:52-!-jkc is "jkc" on #linode #debian
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22:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 941] by debhelper
23:00*enyc meows
23:01<enyc>ooo local-operator flag, not notice that before
23:04-!-wyq [~tianyu@121.28.27.126] has joined #debian
23:04-!-wyq is "linux" on #debian
23:05-!-tianyu [~tianyu@121.28.27.126] has joined #debian
23:05-!-tianyu is "linux" on #debian
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23:11-!-lpfll is "Luis Paulo" on #debian #debian-br
23:11-!-futune [~futune@2a04:981:3f00:900::bad] has joined #debian
23:11-!-futune is "realname" on #debian #alpine-linux #postmarketos
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23:12-!-lpfll is "Luis Paulo" on #debian-cwb #debian-bsb #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-br
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23:14-!-lpfll is "Luis Paulo" on #debian #debian-br
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23:28-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
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23:31-!-vetrivelmuruan is "realname" on #debian
23:31<vetrivelmuruan>hello how can i use multiarch in debian
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23:33-!-hbautista [~hbautista@187.171.122.82] has joined #debian
23:33-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #archlinux #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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23:42-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
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23:45-!-iateadonut is "purple" on #debian
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23:52-!-TheCreeper is "realname" on #debian
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 11 00:00:49 2021