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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-14

---Logopened Sat Aug 14 00:00:53 2021
00:06<ens>i installed deb11 about 4 hours ago but i thought i'd share anyway.
00:06<ens>woo bullseye - https://ibb.co/RPdgD4n
00:08-!-zebrag [~inkbottle@00027865.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:08<somiaj>!congrats
00:09<somiaj>!congratulate ens
00:09<dpkg>Nice one ens, you did it!
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00:55-!-Tuxist is "Jan Koester,,," on #debian #linux
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01:22<rudi_s> /ws fau
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01:52<djringjr>The Debian accessibility email list has been down for two weeks, is there another way to send a message?
01:52<djringjr><djringjr> If so send me a message at n1ea@arrl.net, the Bulleseye RC3 candidate net install 64 bit install doesn't detect my sound card on an accessible (screen reader) installation. I have been sending messages to the list but the list is broken.
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01:57<themill>djringjr: nothing wrong with the mailing list, your messages are there.
01:58<Ericounet>hi everyone
01:59<Ericounet>yesterday, I encoutered a strange benavior of my bullseye desktop: the disk was filling up at super speed ...
02:00<Ericounet>after rebooting in "rescue mode", I saw that the log files (messages and 2 others) were hundreds Go big.
02:01<Ericounet>these log files were never rotated .... strange and first time seing this.
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02:22-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
02:24<jpw>log files are rotated on a schedule, not on size limits
02:25<jpw>something has to be very wrong for messages to reach 100s GB
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03:29<AndroUser>Hi my friends!
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03:36<AndroUser>My password or anything is correct but my Debian Said "cryptsetup failed, bad password or options?". When press ESC "Missing firmware, volume group "xx" not found" how can i enable non-free repo from GRUB console? Sorry for my bad english, turkish and english document is okey for me. Will you send document link for this? Thanks!
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04:21<Reaper>howdy folks
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04:22<computerworm110>Hi
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04:22-!-dogsleg__ is "Lev Lamberov" on #debian-l10n-russian #debian-devel-changes #debian
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04:27<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
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04:27<grtestuser>ty
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04:28<grtestuser>from whom pls?
04:28<cousin_luigi>Me?
04:28<grtestuser>no
04:28<grtestuser>zou
04:28<grtestuser>uou
04:28<grtestuser>you
04:28<cousin_luigi>grtestuser: Are you perchance using a German keyboard layout?
04:28<grtestuser>ic
04:28<cousin_luigi>lazout?
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04:28<grtestuser>u greet me
04:29<grtestuser>no why|
04:29<grtestuser>?
04:29<grtestuser>u use an italian keyboard?
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04:30<grtestuser>u need a hit on a german keyboard? which 1
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04:32<grtestuser>luigi my italian cousin
04:33<grtestuser>r u still here?
04:33<andi89gi>hey
04:33<grtestuser>or there
04:33<grtestuser>good morning andi
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04:34<grtestuser>can somebody explain me pls how i can chat without internet?
04:34<bittin>that be kinda hard
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04:34<grtestuser>why
04:35<bittin>well chatting is kinda an internet thing however back in the days you could chat via sms
04:35<bittin>:p
04:35<grtestuser>by browser i dot get out
04:35<grtestuser>fine so far
04:35<grtestuser>special ports?
04:36<grtestuser>protocols?
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04:40<cousin_luigi>When can we expect Bullseye?
04:41<grtestuser>soon i guess
04:41<bittin>later today
04:41<grtestuser>perhaps
04:42<bittin>in around 8-9 hours
04:42<grtestuser>soon so
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04:55<andi89gi>grtestuser: yep :-) Celebration time soon
04:55<grtestuser>ok, and how get some tools here in the chat?
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04:56<grtestuser>a debian installer
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05:03<amacater>If you've already got a machine running Buster, you can update.
05:04<amacater>If you need to install a new machine from nothing: wait about 12 hours until the media team have finished building and testing the images [That's what I'll be doing for much of today]
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05:09<grtestuser>no, just update the bootloader
05:09<grtestuser>i need a tool
05:09<grtestuser>gnu grub2?
05:10<amacater>You've got a machine: you've got problems updating grub?
05:10<bittin>amacater, might be able to help a bit with that however i will help host the release party in Stockholm so will be gone in 4 hours
05:11<amacater>Grab a Debian install medium - netinst.iso is good. Boot from that into rescue mode and reinstall grub from there
05:11<grtestuser>the best tool i'm available stops with ext3
05:11<grtestuser>i try
05:12<amacater>OK: What is your partition layout. Are you booting from UEFI / "legacy" MBR
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05:13<grtestuser>on the hd sda1 2 and 5 ext4
05:13<grtestuser>no access 2 netinst.iso
05:14<grtestuser>i can chat here but not come through with the browser
05:15<grtestuser>ftp is not installed
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05:16<grtestuser>i get browser msg (Error code: ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap)
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05:48<alex11>should i be backing up anything in /var?
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05:52<amacater>alex11 - ? What's the context?
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05:54<alex11>just preparing for the bullseye update and backing up my files
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05:55<amacater>Probably not quite so important - importantly would be any configs you have changed. READ THE RELEASE NOTES ... oh, and did I mention that it's a good idea to read the release notes :)
05:55<alex11>mm
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05:58<colo>alex11, /var is not to be messed with, there's lots of important stuff there. in /var/tmp, less to - generally speaking. I don't think you'll have to worry due to the upgrade to 11 though :)
05:58<alex11>yeah so i think just /home
05:58<colo>but having backups that you can restore are important at any point in time, so please, go ahead ;)
05:59<alex11>i don't really care about /etc
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06:00<amacater>Critical useful things are things like a personal .ssh directory.
06:01<alex11>yeah that's in /home
06:02<alex11>i think i'll do /usr/local and my crontabs and /home and that's it
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06:03<alex11>(crontabs actually are in /var, lol)
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06:06<amacater>If the crontabs are fairly short - do a crontab -l >> somefilename
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06:06<amacater>Then you can always run crontab somefilename to put them back
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06:10<Nei>hi, is there anyone here familiar with dh_strip? I'm trying to understand an issue that started with Debian 10 when running
06:10<Nei>> fakeroot dh_strip -P /var/tmp/irssi-git-1.3dev+489+g1ba48840-build -v -k
06:10<Nei>I get this error: dh_strip: No packages to build. Architecture mismatch: amd64, want:
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06:40<vv221>somiaj, you were right of course, it was only a joke on the common confusion between these two words ;)
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07:02<tarzeau>Nei: with what package? and what's the missing part after want: ?
07:02<Nei>tarzeau: that's the odd thing, it's missing something after the want: :)
07:03<Nei>I'm trying to create debug symbols for an irssi-git package (not in the debian repos)
07:03<Nei>( and this command has been working in debian <= 9 )
07:03<tarzeau>broken debian/control file? can you put your stuff on http?
07:04<Nei>in debian 11 the error message has slightly changed to "dh_strip: warning: No packages to build. Possible architecture mismatch: amd64, want:"
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07:05<tarzeau>Nei: must be some kind of syntax error in d/control, would be my wild guess. but can't say for sure without having your debian source package
07:05<Nei>that's a very good hint tarzeau
07:06<Nei>my d/control is very very bare bones, just contains the minimumg -- maybe that is not enough anymore
07:06<Nei>just a second
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07:07<Nei>https://paste.opensuse.org/view/simple/66136383
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07:08<tarzeau>what's that?
07:08<tarzeau>that is not a debian/control file
07:09<tarzeau>should be more like this: https://sources.debian.org/src/irssi/1.2.3-1/debian/control/
07:09<Nei>that's the control file I used to use for dh_strip
07:10<Nei>maybe more of the mandatory fields are now enforced by dh_strip than they were previously
07:10<Nei>I will try to throw in a random bunch of Maintainer/Standards-Version etc see if that helps
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07:19<amacater>Just been asked on debian-user mailing list: Is there, somewhere, a publicly accessible archive of this IRC channel?
07:19<ansgar>!irclog
07:19<dpkg>#debian on <freenode> is logged at http://infobot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/
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07:20<Nei>tarzeau: oof!
07:20<Nei>dh_strip now requires an _empty_ line between Source and Package
07:20<Nei>that's all
07:21<tarzeau>Nei: maybe if it's easier to ask !simple sid backport?
07:21<tarzeau>and replacing the source being not sid or experimental but upstream?
07:21<tarzeau>Nei: hah...
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07:22<Nei>the git version isnt released yet and uses meson
07:22<Nei>anyway thanks for your help :))
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07:34<manas>test
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07:38<amacater>!ask
07:38<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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09:03<crazyfrog>hey, can someone help me with lxc with the following configuration the network is not working (no ping to the host) https://paste.debian.net/hidden/302513ba/
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09:16<spawacz>Is there a way to install tor without adding contrib to spt sources list?
09:17<crazyfrog>the name of the lxc bridge interface from brctl show; ip add does i have to put in somewhere else?
09:17<rythmyft>spawacz: Which Debian version are you running?
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09:22<spawacz>i upgraded to 11 yesterday
09:22<spawacz>i think it was the day, right?
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09:23<spawacz>anyways, it does not matter right, since the package is in contrib and i only use free
09:23<spawacz>i dont have much against tor being in contrib but i dont want to accidentally such in other packages from contrib
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09:31<sney>packages in main are not allowed to depend on contrib/non-free, so that won't happen.
09:31<sney>but you can always disable contrib after installing your 1 package
09:33<DusXMT>spawacz: If you're _really_ worried you'd accidentally install something from contrib, you can always set up a cron job with virtual rms (an actual package) to mail you in case you did so.
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09:34<DusXMT>but yeah, like sney said, it'd have to be something you'd do intentionally, as nothing in main depends on anything in contrib/non-free
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09:36*DusXMT wonders if virtual rms would get upset at the user installing emacs documentation with no-modify sections... that would be rather amusing
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09:38<sney>also fwiw torsocks is in main, torbrowser-launcher is only in contrib because it downloads a bundle from tor upstream rather than a binary package built for debian.
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09:47<alex11>nobody seems to be connected to the debian party line on mumble, i wonder if i set it up wrong
09:48<DusXMT>everyone's probably busy upgrading their computers :D
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09:49<alex11>anyway, happy release day all :D
09:49<alex11>here's to many more years
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09:55<DusXMT>happy release day :)
09:55*DusXMT finally decided to set up monthly donations two months ago, now that he has a somewhat stable income
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10:00<crawler>every release day I get nostalgic and google woody's screenshots.. damn I am getting old
10:00<crawler>#Release_Blues
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10:09-!-jacr is "unknown" on #debian #C #tor #moocows #linux #OpenBSD #Corsair
10:10<choozy>Ah, happy release day!
10:11<frikilinux2>happy release day
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10:19<DusXMT>That's interesting, looks like MATE with the TraditionalOk theme has a maximize indicator, a 1px line under the top window border that's white when minimized and black when maximized... I woner if that's intentional
10:19<DusXMT>(On Bullseye)
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10:22-!-tejr is "Tom Ryder" on #perl #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian
10:25<scorpion2185[m]>is the installer already available?
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10:25-!-tohoyn is "Tommi Höynälänmaa" on #debian
10:26<tohoyn>is debian 11 going to be released today?
10:26<scorpion2185[m]>yes
10:26<scorpion2185[m]>!11
10:26<dpkg>The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. Tentative release date: 2021-08-14. Good bug reports on packages and upgrades are greatly appreciated! https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye . Bullseye is Debian turned up to 11! <buster->bullseye> <install bullseye>
10:26<bremner>it is no longer tentative though
10:27<scorpion2185[m]>so did I won the release date bet? how much is the first prize?
10:28<ansgar>scorpion2185[m]: You can install Debian for free on two systems.
10:29-!-kwilczynski [sid379192@000109a9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:29-!-kwilczynski is "Krzysztof Wilczyński" on #debian #ck #C
10:29<scorpion2185[m]>!bullseye pool 1
10:29<dpkg>! plandemic=2021-11-30 scorpion2185=2021-08-01 abrotman=2021-09-09 scorpion2185=2021-08-25 antto=2021-07-07 räträcé=2021-06-13 jëlly=2021-06-06 themíll=2021-09-01
10:30<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: looks like you cheated by betting twice?
10:30<scorpion2185[m]>yes is that against the rules?
10:30<ansgar>Ah, then the two free installs are void.
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10:30<bremner>yes, you have to pay the regular price of EUR0
10:31<scorpion2185[m]>best way to install GNOME 40 is `apt upgrade -t experimental gnome*`?
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10:32<bremner>that is (still) a question for #debian-next
10:33<scorpion2185[m]>oh right. Anyway my first bet wins
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10:37<abrotman>you're disqualified for having two guesses
10:38<abrotman>can't work the bot, don't vote :)
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10:40<vv221>abrotman, you still need to find a way to disqualify them​ill submission too before you reach the first place ;)
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10:42<abrotman>I'm not concerned about winning, but you can't just keep adding votes until you win .. I hear there are rules about that :)
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10:57-!-mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift
10:57<lilideb>what is another way of "smartctl" a disk?? it says package not available when i try to install
10:58<lilideb>i mean, is there another package that do the same thing.
10:58<sney>,v smartmontools
10:58<judd>Package: smartmontools on amd64 -- stretch: 6.5+svn4324-1; buster: 6.6-1; buster-backports: 7.2-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 7.2-1; sid: 7.2-1
10:58<tarzeau>lilideb: i'm using badblocks read blocks, and check if there's reading problem
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10:58-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
10:58<sney>the smartctl tool is in smartmontools.
10:59<tarzeau>lilideb: i've made an iselect tui for it: https://github.com/alexmyczko/autoexec.bat/blob/master/diskcom
10:59<lilideb>apt in stall smartmontools ?
10:59<lilideb>install*
10:59<sney>yes, just like any package
11:00<lilideb>installing it now, gonna try! Thanks!
11:00<tarzeau>!smart
11:00<dpkg>rumour has it, smart is the opposite of stupid, or the opposite of straightforward and polite, or what I definitely am, or "Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology" used by some hard drive manufacturers to detect imminent drive failure; ask me about <smartd>. S.M.A.R.T. can also be unreliable, no reason to believe it blindly without further testing. http://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf
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11:02<lilideb>"No manual entry for smartmontools" . When i try to "man smartmontools" ?
11:02<lilideb>How do i run it?
11:02<tarzeau>man smartctl
11:03<lilideb>thanks!
11:04-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@cpe-98-149-105-158.natmtn.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
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11:05<lilideb>When smartctl says "For SCSI Tape Drives" in the info part. Do they talking about actual ancient tape harddrives?
11:05<lilideb>like the big tapes that look like cinema reels / kasettes
11:05<sney>sure, though something like a DLT35/70 is a more modern example
11:06<sussudio>i doubt the old ones have smart
11:06<lilideb>where is this still used? the modern example you mentioned.
11:06<lilideb>this is not what im trying to do, i just got a ssd and one old IDE normal hd. But it caught my attention
11:06<sussudio>everywhere where large backups are made
11:06<sney>tape backups are the most stable option for offline storage. so they are still used in large enterprises that need to have reliable backups
11:07-!-tristero [~nobody@pool-71-112-165-78.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
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11:07<lilideb>i know they are more stable, i just thought that was obsolete
11:07<lilideb>i learn something new everyday haha
11:08<sney>won't be obsolete until someone comes up with a replacement. storing hard drives on a shelf is way worse
11:08<DusXMT>tapes also have massive capacity
11:08<sussudio>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape#Drives
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11:09<lilideb>Whats the "cleaning tape" a literal cleaning tape for the other tapes?
11:09<lilideb>in the wikipedia list i mean
11:09<sney>for the machine
11:09<sney>gets the gunk off the read/write heads
11:09<lilideb>didnt it use to exist some cleaning tapes for VHS players too? or am i dreaming now?
11:09<DusXMT>Though you can only access data in an efficient manner sequentially, so it's ideal for backups, but completely unfit for actually running a system on it
11:09<sussudio>hm. 144TB LTO drives.
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11:10<mentor>lilideb: VHS are tapes
11:10<sney>similar to how you have to clean payment terminals once in a while, dust and grime gets in there and messes up the function of the machine
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11:11<sney>yes there were cleaner tapes for video decks in the 80s/90s. I don't think many consumers used them, but they were common at tv stations and so on
11:11<lilideb>mento> i know im 30. I mean i have some memory of some special tape to clean the inside of the VHS or similar
11:12<zleap>you had cleaners for tape descks too
11:12<lilideb>sney> make sense since they did it in a bigger scale
11:12<zleap>and cd / dvd players
11:12-!-TheRuralJuror [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit []
11:12<zleap>iirc VHS = Video Home System or something
11:12<sney>and just more important in production than you watching Aladdin at home for the 9th time ;)
11:12<lilideb>thats correct zleap
11:13<sussudio>i tried to get some replacement cleaning solution (isopropyl), but apparently it's forbidden now, as people use it in drug fabrication processes or something.
11:13<zleap>:)
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11:13<lilideb>sney> along those lines haha!
11:13<sussudio>"just order it on the internet" -- pharmacist
11:13<sussudio>super effective policy.
11:13<lilideb>sussudio> what country are u iN?
11:13<zleap>sussudio, good grief, whhy do the rest of us suffer due to the idiots
11:13<sussudio>.nl
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11:13<lilideb>i didnt hear about isopropyl getting banned but maybe im just lagging
11:13<zleap>that could explain why I can't get a camera cleaning kit from poundland, the alcohol is good for removing stickers from laptops
11:14*mentor looks at his giant collection of solvents
11:14<zleap>eitehr that or £land just don't have any in, I could just use methylated spirit instead
11:14<lilideb>that alcohol is good for aaaaalot of things actually. especially stickers/sticky sh*** that wont go away even with like Mr muscle spray
11:14<zleap>i found that
11:14<sussudio>well, you can still buy denatured methanol
11:14<lilideb>and cleaning computer parts
11:14<zleap>spray, wait , wipe off
11:15<zleap>sussudio, where are you, (for reference)
11:15<mentor>Usually the trick is to have more than one solvent, to address different substances in the gooey annoying mixture
11:15<sussudio>already said
11:15<lilideb>aha i missed it. stroopwaffeln
11:16<sussudio>mentor: todaywasabadtodaytostofsniffingglue.jpg
11:17<sussudio>i have no idea in what drugs manufacturing process isopropyl is used anyway. i can't imagine 50ml being much use for that anyway.
11:17<lilideb>sussudio> its always like that, if they use it for that probably they order it by the barrel from like china anyway. So the law wont stop them
11:17<lilideb>it will only effect normal people trying to clean a cpu or something lol
11:18<sussudio>i can order a liter of the stuff for a few euro on the internets, but that's just too much. like i said, i just want 50 or maybe 100ml. that lasts me a few years.
11:18<mentor>Barrels of stuff tend to have to go through import/export controls
11:18<lilideb>mentor> i know but if you knew how many of them that come daily
11:19<tarzeau>!releaseparty
11:19<tarzeau>dpkg releaseparty is officially on mumble.debian.org but there's also https://meet.jit.si/debian11releaseparty2021
11:19<dpkg>okay, tarzeau
11:20<mentor>lilideb: I imagine they do know that.
11:21*mentor stops being offtopic
11:22<grtestuser>i can chat
11:22<grtestuser>i can browse gnu.org
11:22<grtestuser>i cant browse debian.net
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11:23<lilideb>grtestuser> works here.. sound strange?
11:23<sney>debian.org is the primary domain, can you see that one?
11:23<lilideb>but it redirect to .org thou
11:23<grtestuser>and i cant wget gnu.org
11:23<grtestuser>--2021-08-14 15:23:11-- http://gnu.org/
11:23<grtestuser>Resolving gnu.org... 2001:470:142:3::a, 209.51.188.148
11:23<grtestuser>Connecting to gnu.org|2001:470:142:3::a|:80... connected.
11:23<grtestuser>HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
11:23-!-grtestuser was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
11:24<sussudio>...
11:25<Noisytoot>http://gnu.org/ is a redirect to http://www.gnu.org/
11:25<bremner>they "left
11:26<mentor>debhelper initiated a safety dance
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11:31<grtestuser_>sry, i got it
11:31<VlijmenFileer>Will Bullseye still be realsed today as indicated earlier on mailing list?
11:31<grtestuser_>what i wanted to ask
11:31<grtestuser_>what does it say there
11:31<grtestuser_>why cant i connect
11:32<bremner>VlijmenFileer: 97.3% for sure
11:32<bremner>grtestuser_: why can't you connect to what?
11:32<grtestuser_>i can chat here, i can browse gnu.org
11:32<grtestuser_>what i posted up there
11:32<bremner>debian.net is not a thing you can connect to
11:32<grtestuser_>wget gnu.org
11:32<Noisytoot>grtestuser_, http://gnu.org/ is a redirect to http://www.gnu.org/
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11:33<VlijmenFileer>bremner: very precise expectation...
11:33<grtestuser_>ty
11:34<grtestuser_>:)
11:34-!-qrpnxz [~qrpnxz@0002b46b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:34<grtestuser_>ok, in other words
11:35<grtestuser_>why can i call gnu.org in my browser and just a few other files from my live-cd
11:36<sney>grtestuser_: what is your goal?
11:37<grtestuser_>to download grub
11:37<grtestuser_>and debian installer
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11:37<sney>gnu.org would only have grub source, is that what you want? or do you need to install a bootloader?
11:37<DusXMT>while you'll certainly find grub on gnu.org/s/grub , it's only source archives, and probably won't be too useful if you wish to "simply use it"
11:38<sney>for debian installer, what's wrong with https://www.debian.org/download ?
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11:39<grtestuser_>not available to me because of
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11:40<grtestuser_>starting from a 10 year old rescue-cd with no root access and no ext4
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11:41<DusXMT>and what is your goal with such a setup?
11:41<grtestuser_>which allows me 2 chat and to browse a few sites only, eg gnu and google
11:41<grtestuser_>to repair the grub of my disc
11:41-!-crazyfrog [~crazyfrog@2001:4bc9:a42:887a:bdb:17ff:61d5:d609] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:42<grtestuser_>so i need a grub a debian installer a qparted
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11:45<grtestuser_>what are roots by default?
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11:47<sney>"roots by default"? what you're trying to do wouldn't be easy for anyone, and it sounds like you're missing a lot of fundamental knowledge.
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11:48<sney>is there a reason you can't, e.g., get another usb stick and put a newer debian installer or live iso on it?
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11:49<atzlinux>I'm waiting Debian 11 come!
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11:53<grtestuser_>i agree sney
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11:53<grtestuser_>yeah
11:53<grtestuser_>there is a reason
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11:54<grtestuser_>from this rescue app i'm on i feel a bit handycapped
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11:55<grtestuser_>internet access very restricted 2 only gnu
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11:55<grtestuser_>and google
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11:56<grtestuser_>and wordpress
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11:56<grtestuser_>and binarytides
11:57<DusXMT>sounds like that system doesn't support modern TLS
11:57<DusXMT>but still, you'd need root accesss to install grub
11:57<grtestuser_>thats my question
11:58<DusXMT>Hmmm... it's possible that burning a CD doesn't require root access if the user is in the cdrom group
11:58<DusXMT>grtestuser_: do you see 'cdrom' if you type 'id'?
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11:58<grtestuser_>u mean in a browser?
11:58<DusXMT>in a terminal
11:58<grtestuser_>right its there
11:59<EmleyMoor>Have we hit a bullseye yet?
11:59<DusXMT>wait, if you're running off of a live CD, you can't remove said CD, unless you had two CD-ROM drives
11:59-!-andi89gi [~andi89gi@p200300c0573c4a0025cb621615a51752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
11:59<grtestuser_>it says
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11:59<grtestuser_>id
11:59<crawler>EmleyMoor not yet, but it is close, follow Debian micronews https://micronews.debian.org/
11:59<grtestuser_>uid=1000(user) gid=1000(user) groups=1000(user),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev)
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12:00<grtestuser_>24 cdrom
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12:00<tepozoa>reading scrollback, I'm confused what you're booted into (a 10 year old live rescue?) and what you're trying to accomplish
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12:00<tepozoa>big picture: what are you trying to do
12:00<grtestuser_>:)
12:00<DusXMT>grtestuser_: I'd recommend asking a friend or family member to download and burn an install CD for you
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12:01<mentor>grtestuser_: Your question is what is root's password?
12:01<grtestuser_>is there no way in my situation 2 do it myself
12:01<grtestuser_>yeah, standards
12:01<grtestuser_>defaults
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12:02<DusXMT>grtestuser_: hmmm. Debian Live CDs typically have a passwordless sudo, so you could try: sudo su -
12:02<grtestuser_>with root i can mount the sdas
12:02<grtestuser_>and repair grub
12:02<mentor>grtestuser_: You didn't use the word password in your original question.
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12:02<grtestuser_>did i mention 1?
12:02<EmleyMoor>I'm sure this has been asked - but what comes after bullseye?
12:02<mentor>grtestuser_: Either the password is empty, or the default user is part of the sudo group
12:02<grtestuser_>how could i
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12:03<grtestuser_>aha!
12:03<mentor>grtestuser_: I am explaining why nobody answered your question.
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12:03<ansgar>EmleyMoor: bookworm
12:03<grtestuser_>now it is answered
12:03<grtestuser_>ty
12:04<ansgar>EmleyMoor: Or 📚‍🪱
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12:07<robobox>the second it releases i'm downloading it
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12:10<grtestuser_>more /etc/sudoers shows
12:10<Mikaela>what would be OK RSS feed update interval for Debian Micronews?
12:10<grtestuser_># User privilege specification
12:10<grtestuser_>root ALL=(ALL) ALL
12:11<crawler>Mikaela 5 minutes I guess
12:11<vv221>DusXMT, `sudo su -` is usually an overthought way to run `sudo -i/--login` ;)
12:11*DusXMT prefers to avoid sudo, so it's certainly possible :)
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12:11<sney>!sudo su
12:11<dpkg>Typing "sudo su" is like typing "cat file | cat". If you want a non-login shell as root, just use "sudo -s". If you want a login shell, "sudo -i". There's no need to run two different superuser-elevation programs chained back to back. See also <buster su>
12:11<Mikaela>thanks crawler, I will decrease to it from 5 minutes and likely unsubscribe once the release hype is over
12:11<sney>and since you're chaining two different utilities, you can get unusual environments
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12:12<DusXMT>well, that's why I added in - for login shell
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12:13<crawler>Mikaela if you want to live more exciting release moments, https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianCd
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12:14<Mikaela>I will take a look, but I am currently suffering the weather a bit too much to contribute
12:14<crawler>I am just watching them, I am not contributing too
12:15<Mikaela>👍
12:15<spawacz>!buster su
12:15<dpkg>In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
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12:15<spawacz>!cat
12:15<dpkg>rumour has it, cat is a program in Unix and Unix-like operating systems that concatenates the contents of files, reading from a list of files and/or standard input in sequence and writing their contents in order to standard output. cat takes the list of files as arguments but also interprets the argument "-" as standard input. See also <more> and <less>.
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12:16<jonathon>!tac
12:16<dpkg>tac is probably a console AIM client
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12:16<jonathon>-.-
12:17<spawacz>!cat | grep
12:17<ichigo>hello
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12:21<marek>?
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12:34<Fire>Hi
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12:35<cousin_luigi>Any hope for bullseye within a couple of hours?
12:37<zleap>as in when it is ready
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12:40<koollman_>missing the target ... bullseye may be the wrong name ? ;)
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12:44<jhutchins>cousin_luigi: It will take time. There are many tasks that need to be done by many volunteers.
12:45<cousin_luigi>jhutchins: But I thought it was supposed to be released today. Shouldn't things be done before that?
12:45<cousin_luigi>I mean, that's how it usually goes with other things...
12:45<jhutchins>cousin_luigi: Besides which, all the people who have to have it RIGHT NOW, as soon as it's available, are going to utterly kill the servers.
12:45<marhas>Hello everyone!
12:45<jhutchins>cousin_luigi: Debian is not other things.
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12:46<marhas>cousin_luigi: Just use the release candidate if you are eager to try it out?
12:47<cousin_luigi>marhas: I just wanted to upgrade before bedtime. Will do it tomorrow, I suppose.
12:47<sney>bullseye itself is done, today is just about building isos and updating the website/links/etc
12:47<amacater>cousin_luigi - which TZ are you in?
12:47<cousin_luigi>amacater: UTC+2.
12:47<sney>if you use the latest rc installer, you will get the same bullseye as you would if you use debian 11 media some hours from now
12:47<marhas>cousin_luigi: I see. I assumed you were waiting for the iso for some reason
12:47<cousin_luigi>I can wait.
12:48<crawler>cousin_luigi you can start the upgrade, you don't have to wait. Make sure to read release notes tho
12:48<amacater>Give it a couple more hours maybe ... we're mostly through testing media :)
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12:48<cousin_luigi>ok:)
12:48<marhas>I do not have to do anything since I already am on bullseye right?
12:48<DusXMT>and keep in mind: you don't need to re-install debian, an upgrade works just fine... or at least it should, if it doesn't then that's a bug certainly worth reporting
12:49<FLD>when buster released i got the release email at around 3am UTC+2 the next day
12:49<marhas>stabe to stable upgrades is generally safe, or so I've heard atleast
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12:50<grtestuser_>bullseye comes soon
12:51<grtestuser_>what does "!sudo su" mean
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12:51<grtestuser_>is it a negotian?
12:52<sney>marhas: correct, you might have 1 or 2 packages that change it over officially, but you're already there essentially
12:52<ansgar>grtestuser_: It makes dpkg say the text it did.
12:52<sney>grtestuser_: ! commands in irc are for our channel bot, dpkg. it has a database of information about debian usage.
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12:53<jmcnaught>firefox-esr 78.13.0esr-1~deb11u1 is in debian-security, so things are moving.
12:54<marhas>sney: That's awesome :D
12:54<ens>!releaseparty
12:54<dpkg>i heard releaseparty is https://jitsi.debian.social/ReleasePartyBullseye
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12:55<grtestuser_>fine
12:55<grtestuser_>dpkg how repair grub?
12:55<dpkg>grtestuser_: I give up, what is it?
12:56<grtestuser_>a bootloader
12:56<jhutchins>!fixgrub
12:56<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
12:57<marhas>Only been using debian for a couple of weeks, couldn't be happier. Now I want to become a contributor :)
12:57<sney>!hcih
12:57<crawler>marhas help in testing release CDs https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianCd
12:57<dpkg>Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. https://debian.org/intro/help
12:58<marhas>crawler: Oh straight into it! Thanks
12:58<tepozoa>^ if you are fixing GRUB in EFI mode, you now need to also bind mount /sys/firwmare/efi/efivars
12:59<tepozoa>*firmware
12:59<tepozoa>^-> https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall
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13:22<jepler>so much thanks to those working on releasing Bullseye!
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13:24<crawler>I don't want to interrupt and ask what are they doing.. watching them is enough tho :D
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13:25<SecOPs>will the command 'make ARCH=i386 defconfig' overwrite /usr/src/linux/arch/x86/config/i386_defconfig ?
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13:26<marhas>I haven't been using IRC for a while? Why did we move away from freenode?
13:26<SecOPs>Its weird in slackware building a custom kernel is straightforward but now other distros have their own weird way of compiling kernels
13:27<edwin_>I don't know.
13:27<marhas>That first questionmark was supposed to be a dot.
13:27<raven523>marhas: this channel was always on OFTC
13:27<raven523>or at least has been for several years
13:27<ansgar>marhas: Oh, the move to OFTC 15 years ago I don't know :)
13:27<raven523>the #debian on freenode wasn't official
13:27<sney>!debian irc
13:27<dpkg>The offical Debian IRC network is OFTC (irc.oftc.net). Please connect to OFTC for debian support and development communities. See https://wiki.debian.org/IRC for a list of channels. See also <oftc>, <oftc move>, and <libera>.
13:27<raven523>and freenode imploded and deleted all of their accounts and channels
13:27<SecOPs>marhas: some korean owner took it over or something
13:28<sney>the #debian on freenode was official prior to 2006. but long, LONG before any of the recent shenanigans
13:28<marhas>ansgar: Oh lol, I thought it was Debian who moved away from freenode
13:28<Mikaela>Does Debian hold the world record on the slowest IRC network migration?
13:28<marhas>Turns out it was Arch Linux
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13:29<marhas>Mikaela: new Guiness World Record right there
13:29<ansgar>marhas: I think every open source project moved away from Freenode as they are no longer welcome there. The internet has enough stories about the recent events.
13:29<Mikaela>https://www.debian.org/News/2006/20060604.en.html
13:29<sney>the #debian on libera is maintained by debian ops for user convenience because there are a lot of projects on that network; the #debian on freenode prior to mid-May was the same for the past 15 years
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13:29<sney>it's not the primary debian channel, but it's still in the family.
13:29<sney>(and many of us are in both)
13:29<marhas>ansgar: Right
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13:31<SecOPs>So GalliumOS has a custom 5.10 kernel, for chromebooks, so I pulled the source and I want to merge the config or defconfig file into the debian bullseye linux src because the debian bullseye kernel might be slightly newer
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13:32<SecOPs>or something like that
13:32<RobinJuste_UK>Does anyone know if Debian 11 Bullseye is releasing today?
13:32<sney>you might want to manually diff those configs and look at the differences yourself, I wouldn't trust an automatic process with it
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13:33<sney>RobinJuste_UK: that is the plan, but it'll be released when all the pieces are in place
13:33<RobinJuste_UK>Thank you @sney
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13:33<SecOPs>GalliumOS is based on an outdated ubuntu LTS version that is no longer supported so it sounds like a security hazard
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13:33<crawler>RobinJuste_UK probably yes, follow Debian micronews https://micronews.debian.org If you can help testing Bullseye released ISOs please, read this https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianCd
13:33<RobinJuste_UK>I will hold off installing the RC on my production machine if the official ISO will be made available today
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13:34<SecOPs>sney: ok thanks
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13:37<ZZzzz>I know Bullseye is/will be released today, but for now I only wish to upgrade partly whilest keeping things as stable as can be for a couple of days. I think I run into the issue of cache/index being stuck to Buster so this does not work to get dependencies downloaded so I can manually install them: aptitude --download-only -o Dir::Cache="/root/bullseye/" -t bullseye install arduino="1.8.13+dfsg1-2"
13:38<ZZzzz>as bullseye, testing or whatever is not available/known. Is there a simple workaround not fubaring or fully upgrading my system?
13:38<RobinJuste_UK>Do you suggest a clean install of v11?
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13:39<ZZzzz>no. This is an old system with multiple dist upgrades under its belt. I only want a new Arduino-IDE (with deps) for now
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13:40<craigevil>why not just download Arduino from their site? It works
13:41<ZZzzz>because I prefer package management.
13:41<somiaj>ZZzzz: don't mix releases, either do e a full upgrade, or stick with the older version
13:42<SecOPs>v11 is stable enough for me man testing is only unstable for me to a significant degree for the first year it is released or so
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13:42<ZZzzz>the older version is so prehistoric it is unusable, so I use a VM instead, but then you get nuts with enabling/forwarding USB ports and timing issues
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13:42<somiaj>if you have a version older than buster, you need to dist-upgrade though every release between it and the version you want
13:43<ZZzzz>no, I run Buster
13:43<somiaj>if you have been mixing packages from multiple releases/sources, you might find a clean install preferable
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13:43<somiaj>if you are running buster, you should be able to upgrade to bullseye fairly cleanly, be sure to read the release notes on some tips
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13:44<bittin>https://jitsi.debian.social/ReleasePartyBullseye Debian 11 Release Party on Jitsi
13:44<ZZzzz>I do not mix versions. I just do not want to be one of the first to upgrade to the new release in its current state, but want/need a newer version of Arduino so I can live with a mix for a short time
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13:44<FLD>perhaps run it within a systemd-nspawn sid container?
13:45<scorpion2185[m]>is bull installer ready?
13:45<bittin>scorpion2185[m], in some hours
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13:46<somiaj>ZZzzz: that is mixing, even if it is for a short period of time, just do the full upgrade.
13:46<scorpion2185[m]>is there a countdown?
13:46<somiaj>!wir
13:46<dpkg>[wir] When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>.
13:46<somiaj>they are activally working on all the final things, the total process takes 12-18 hours, they are probably slightly over half way
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13:47<somiaj>but bullseye is basically read, you can upgrade/install it if you want, I think you can even get copies of the offical cd images now
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13:48<scorpion2185[m]>here https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ ?
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13:51<somiaj>that will work, though that appears to be rc3
13:51<Linux-Fan>scorpion2185[m]: AFAIU the official images which are not RC anymore are still being tested.
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13:52<somiaj>Yea, I guess I missread, https://micronews.debian.org/, I thought it said they were ready, seems they are still the rc3 ones, though there shoudln't be much difference, and they work just fine
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13:55<RobinJuste_UK>Still RC3 showing on the website, here
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13:55<scorpion2185[m]>AFAIU?
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13:59<mason>as far as I understand
13:59<mason>aka afaik, afaics
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14:17<bsytrytrfbyhuty>Hi! When release?
14:17<crawler>!wir
14:17<dpkg>wir is probably When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>.
14:18<bsytrytrfbyhuty>!rsn
14:18<dpkg>[rsn] Real Soon Now (see <wir> and <siyh>), or Robust Security Network: the Wi-Fi Alliance's full 802.11i implementation (aka WPA2, see <wpa>).
14:18<bsytrytrfbyhuty>!siyh
14:18<dpkg>i heard siyh is Sooner If You Help. How? http://qa.debian.org/ , http://wiki.debian.org/BSP
14:18<bsytrytrfbyhuty>)
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14:20<bsytrytrfbyhuty>not really helpful :) annoced date was 14 aug. So I expected to know, how major delay is.
14:21<mason>bsytrytrfbyhuty: At least hours.
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14:21<somiaj>https://micronews.debian.org/
14:22<somiaj>no, it was annoucned that everyone would work together on the 14th to push out the release, the process takes 12-18 hours, debian has always only works on wir time line
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14:22<marhas>Do these people work nonstop for 18 hours?
14:23<crawler>The testing team leader just took a food break
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14:23<bsytrytrfbyhuty>ok. thanks. Then huge chance for tommorrow.
14:23<somiaj>It goes though different phases, and probabaly though different teams. The coordinatiors might be fairly active for the whole thing, some teams might only be active through their part
14:23<marhas>Lol, I feel so bad for just waiting now
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14:24<crawler>bsytrytrfbyhuty if you want to upgrade, you can do it now. If you need to do a fresh install, then you have to wait
14:24<somiaj>you can install bullseye now if you want
14:24<sussudio>more rc bugs than yesterday.
14:24<somiaj>you can even do fresh installs now, just use the rc3 installer
14:24<marhas>the rc3 iso should be fine to use to
14:25<mason>Best policy is to wait a week or a month or three months and let any new bugs shake themselves out, and then plan an orderly migration.
14:25<marhas>I am so relifed that i get atleast 2 more years with gnome 3 :)
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14:33*DusXMT still hasn't really tried out gnome 3 yet
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14:37<enyc>DusXMT: some like... tho generally Cinnamon or XFCE been better compromises of all factors for me
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14:39<DusXMT>I did try both of those, but I always kinda gravitated back to MATE. I guess an analogy would be if Microsoft allowed you to keep using the Windows XP UI, I'd still probably be using that
14:39<DusXMT>some of Thunar's behaviors are incredibly annoying
14:39<enyc>DusXMT: sure, XFCE seems to do same as MATE or better for my experience but there we go
14:39<enyc>DusXMT: I wonder how easy is "switching out" the file-mangler ...
14:40<enyc>symlink /home/dusxmt/bin/thunar to something else ;p
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14:41<enyc>e.g. on mint MATE systems, switching out to use 'nemo' instead of 'caja' has been helpful
14:42<mason>A bare Openbox continues to work fine here.
14:43<DusXMT>I'd love to use a bare wayland compositor, like hikari, but the problem with that is getting all the dependencies for Debian, wlroots needs the most bleeding-edge packages, and when I was looking at the ones shipped in Bullseye... Yeah, I'm gonna need to do a lot of manual compiling and package management to get that working
14:44<DusXMT>(for an /opt/wayland prefix)
14:45<DusXMT>Oh, at least bullseye does ship _a_ wlroots package
14:45<mason>Wayland isn't a draw here. My chosen technology stack has continued working without issue for decades, and it doesn't need to change.
14:47<DusXMT>And that is indeed kind of the magic of Debian, that it continues to work, but a part of me kinda craves for the idealism of simplicity, of removing redundant layers of code
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14:48<vv221>I would love to switch to Wayland, but I’m realizing my desktop environment is mostly X-only applications (Openbox, Conky, xrandr, xbindkeys…).
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14:48<vv221>Changing one or two applications would be fine, but all at a time does not sound like fun…
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14:51<sussudio>not as fun as releasing two dozen beavers into an ikea warehouse.
14:53<sussudio>"Number concerning the next release" just went way up
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14:55<sussudio>i think someone is messing with global routing. had a weird hiccup here earlier too.
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14:59<crawler>sussudio where do you see those numbers?
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15:05<mentor>Maybe the next release changed
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15:09<sussudio>crawler: https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
15:09<crawler>ty ty
15:09<sussudio>it went from 36 to 106, now 105.
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15:13<DusXMT>something something bugs eyeballs
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15:13<DusXMT>!dpkg eyeballs
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15:14<DusXMT>!eyeballs
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15:19<pervejrahat>hello
15:19<bittin>hi
15:19<zleap>hi
15:19<pervejrahat>how are you?
15:20<pervejrahat>I am new to IRC
15:20<bremner>!chat
15:20<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
15:20<pervejrahat>!chat
15:20<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
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15:22<doublenine>hello
15:22<doublenine>I can't join debian offtopic
15:23<bremner>you probably need to register your account
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15:23<bremner>#oftc can help with that
15:23<doublenine>Thank youu
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15:25<Xinayder>is it okay to use sudo/su in an init script? I want to write an init script to run `nohup` every time my server starts, but the script should be run as a local user and not as root
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15:26<bremner>Xinayder: if you are using systemd, there are probably better ways to do this as a user service
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15:27<bremner>I guess in general using su to drop privileges is OK though
15:27<ansgar>It's not what su is for and does strange things.
15:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 995] by debhelper
15:28<ansgar>In particular PAM sessions and such. That is not what one usually wants when starting services.
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15:36<grawity>hmm, even without systemd, doesn't start-stop-daemon already have options to set the uid/gid?
15:37<grawity>and also... what's the point of `nohup` in a *service*?
15:37<grawity>services don't have a tty that could be hup'd in the first place
15:41<mason>Xinayder: A common method is to run such a thing from your user cron.
15:41<Xinayder>mason, I thought so too, but cron doesn't allow 1-second resolution :(
15:42<mason>Xinayder: The need for such resolution makes me curious.
15:42<Xinayder>haha, I'm fetching prices from an api every 15 seconds and feeding it to a db in another server
15:42<mason>Xinayder: How about, "start once, and run something that tracks time and takes action however you like"
15:42<miausX>Hey,
15:43<Xinayder>the script has a loop that runs every 15 seconds, I was just looking for something to start it once the server boots
15:43<miausX>I just wanted to wish the release team good luck with Bullseye and thank all the volunteers for the amazing work they did. Thank you all!
15:43<mason>Xinayder: That sounds easy. Start a shell script, have that either do the work periodically or spin off jobs that do it periodically. cron'd be fine for that.
15:44<mason>Xinayder: man 5 crontab, and look at @reboot
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15:46<miausX>"The final image test is almost complete!" --> YAY!
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15:50<jepler>I read that buster uses a new password encryption algorithm. how do I reencrypt my password? If I `passwd` and enter my password 3 times, it says "the password has not been changed".
15:50<jepler>er, bullseye
15:50<grtestuser_>dpkg sudo
15:50<dpkg>Sudo, aka Substitute User DO, is a common way to give limited super user privileges to specific users. Not the magic "do what I want" button. Good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program". See <sudo path>, <visudo>, <sudoers>. http://wiki.debian.org/sudo
15:51<jepler>it's true, if you can sudo `sudo passwd <login-name>` does it, but no guarantees that all users can `sudo`.
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16:00<roryprice>Hey, I have a problem. My computer rebooted on its own, and now X won't start. I can login using ctrl alt F4, but can't get a UI. I did however manage to open Xfce as root.
16:00<roryprice>Anyone can help?
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16:01<roryprice>I do get a (EE) Server terminated with error (2). Closing log file.conf.new error when attempting a Xorg -configure
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16:02<roryprice>And now I'm stuck, not sure how to fix it
16:02<scorpion2185[m]>startx starts GUI
16:02<scorpion2185[m]>!11
16:02<dpkg>The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. Tentative release date: 2021-08-14. Good bug reports on packages and upgrades are greatly appreciated! https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye . Bullseye is Debian turned up to 11! <buster->bullseye> <install bullseye>
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16:03<roryprice>startx doesn't work.
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16:04<roryprice>well, not true, if I log in as root, it does
16:05<roryprice>but then I'm logged as a root user, so not ideal, obviously
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16:06<bremner>why not use a display manager (lightdm, e.g.)
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16:07<roryprice>what do you mean?
16:08<bremner>well, "modern" configurations mostly don't use startx
16:09<roryprice>okay, what should I use? it says lightdm not found
16:09<roryprice>I do normally have a login screen, this is a new issue, where nothing shows up after grub
16:10<bremner>what do you think might have changed? did you do an upgrade or something?
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16:11<roryprice>Well, I did experiment with barrier. Could that have something to do with it?
16:11<roryprice>First thing I did was uninstall it
16:11<roryprice>other than that, the system has been running flawlessly for years
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16:13<bremner>what is barrier?
16:14<bremner>generally if you don't pay attention to what apt is going to do, it can install things you need
16:14<roryprice>software kvm. I'm trying to use the same keyboard and mouse on two computers
16:14<bremner>hmm. yes, that could be related.
16:15<bremner>judd: versions lightdm
16:15<judd>Package: lightdm on amd64 -- stretch: 1.18.3-1; buster: 1.26.0-4; bullseye: 1.26.0-7; sid: 1.26.0-7
16:15<roryprice>I'm on Buster btw, and use Xfce
16:15<bremner>so, it's definitely in both bullseye and buster. I thought the xfce used lightdm by default, but I could be wrong
16:15<zleap>I am on bullseye also on xfce (nice front end)
16:16<zleap>not sure off hand
16:16<zleap>it just works,
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16:19<roryprice>I tried deleting Barrier's config file, didn't work
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16:21<vv221>roryprice, startx happy user here, on Debian Sid (but I have been using that for a very long time).
16:21<vv221>Do you get some logs from your failed attempts to run startx as a non-root user?
16:21<roryprice>how would I find them?
16:21<vv221>Here they are written in ~/.local/share/xorg/
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16:23<roryprice>I found the logs. Anything in particular I should look for?
16:24<vv221>Mostly lines with "(EE)" in them, this is the token for errors.
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16:24<roryprice>open /dev/fb0: Permission denied
16:24<roryprice>got this one
16:25<vv221>OK, sounds like a good start.
16:25<vv221>Is your non-root user member of the "video" group?
16:25<roryprice>not sure. How do I find out?
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16:25<vv221>With the `groups` command, no extra argument.
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16:26<vv221>If video is not in the displayed list, it might be the source of your issue.
16:26<roryprice>it is not
16:26<vv221>Then, as root:
16:26<vv221>adduser your-user video
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16:26<vv221>After that, start a new session in a tty, check that `groups` now includes "video", then try startx again.
16:26<roryprice>says adduser: command not found
16:27<vv221>There is no /usr/sbin/adduser on your system?
16:27<vv221>It can be done with usermod too, but I never remember the correct syntax with this one ;)
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16:27<roryprice>I have it, the command just didn'T work
16:28<vv221>OK, I get it ;)
16:28<vv221>!buster su
16:28<dpkg>In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
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16:28<vv221>See, you probably did not follow that to open your root shell ↑
16:28<roryprice>here we go
16:28<vv221>The short version is: do not use `su` with no options, always use `su -l` instead.
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16:30<roryprice>says that I'm part of the video group, but startx still won't work
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16:31<Gerowen>Does Bullseye release today?
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16:31<bremner>yes
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16:32<vv221>roryprice, any message posted after my last one I probably have missed, some small network issue on my side.
16:32<amacater>Final stages happening fairly soon. Various people are already hitting machines hard: I'm doing a test install at the moment.
16:33<marhas>Will buster enter LTS today?
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16:33<roryprice>@vv221, It didn't work. Says I'm part of the video group, but I still can't start X as my normal user
16:33<amacater>In another year or so, when they decide.
16:34<vv221>Still the same error about /dev/fb0 in the logs?
16:34<roryprice>lemme check
16:34<crawler>marhas usually 12 months after the stable release
16:35<Gerowen>I figure as soon as it's finished I'm gonna make a Clonezilla backup of my server's OS drive and then do the upgrade.
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16:36<marhas>crawler: That long! Nice :)
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16:37<roryprice>oh, found something. (EE) AMDGPU(0): failed to set drm interface version
16:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1001] by debhelper
16:38<vv221>Do you have firmware-amd-graphics installed?
16:38<vv221>(from non-free repositories)
16:38<vv221>It seems to be required for most AMD GPUs.
16:38<roryprice>I do. Should I reinstall?
16:38<vv221>Probably not, reinstalling should not change things on this front.
16:38<somiaj>have you rebooted since you installed the firmware?
16:39<roryprice>I've had it installed for years
16:39<vv221>We’re now a bit out of my league, but this AMDGPU error sounds like a likely candidate for your issue.
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16:42<aPpYe>I installed bullseye on a machine a couple of weeks ago and have been updating it since. Is there any point in reinstalling after stable release?
16:42<bremner>probably not. just update
16:43<Fumbor>Is there a webpage or some other place where the release preparations/progress can be followed?
16:44<bittin>Fumbor, https://micronews.debian.org/2021/1628980288.html
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16:46<Fumbor>bittin: thanks :)
16:46<somiaj>sounds like the final test on the install images is about complete, which is one of the more time consuming processes
16:46<xerec>roryprice: you've mention earlier some 'lightdm not found' ; probably those packages were removed at some point of your experiment? Try with systemctl status lightdm
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16:47<roryprice>Says "Active: failed (Result: exit-code)
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16:48<roryprice>(code=existed, status=1/FAILURE)
16:50<xerec>try lightdm --test-mode --debug
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16:52<roryprice>sh: 7: lightdm: not found
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16:52<xerec>i got the vibe that lightdm is searching for another greeter than the one installed on your system
16:52<xerec>I mean, the old config is looking for lightdm but it is not actually installed
16:53<roryprice>it does say that it's installed when I try to install it
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16:54<bremner>probably path problems
16:54<bremner>run /usr/sbin/lightdm
16:54<bremner>(same su -l discussion as above)
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16:55<roryprice>It gives me a black screen with a flashing _
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16:56<somiaj>roryprice: have you shared your Xorg.0.log file?
16:56<roryprice>I have not. how do I do that?
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16:56<aPpYe>bremner, so what criteria would I use to know for sure, re: any point in reinstalling bullseye
16:57<bremner>aPpYe: check the release notes
16:57<bremner>but it would be pretty unusual to require a re-install
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17:00<roryprice>http://paste.debian.net/1207689 here it is
17:00<aPpYe>bremner, of course! Thanks.
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17:04<somiaj>roryprice: I see no errors there everything seems to be running fine, do you have a $HOME/.xinitrc or $HOME/.xsession file?
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17:04<somiaj>but that log I see xorg start and then stop normally, no errors with hardware or anything, so maybe your xsession isn't actually running anything presistant and it just shuts down right after it starts
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17:05<roryprice>I do have a .xinitrc file
17:05<somiaj>roryprice: what are the contents of it?
17:06<somiaj>roryprice: do you have xterm installed (or some other teriminal?)
17:06<roryprice>http://paste.debian.net/1207690
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17:07<roryprice>not sure if I have xterm. I have a few terminals installed
17:07<somiaj>yea that isn't enough, you need to also tell it to run your windowmanager/dm, what windowmanager/dm are you trying to use?
17:07<somiaj>roryprice: can y ou isntall xterm (just cause I'm most familar with it)
17:07<Gerowen>So what is the developer approved method of upgrading to Bullseye, just swap out the names in sources.list and do a regular apt upgrade?
17:07<roryprice>I have it
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17:08<somiaj>roryprice: but my suggestion is, (a) move your .xinitrc file to .xinitrc-bak, (b) create a .xsession file, and in that file have a single line, 'exec xterm', and then try startx again
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17:08<somiaj>that should hopefully give you a xsession with no window manager running a single xterm, if you 'exit' the termianl, the server will then shut down.
17:08<Fumbor>Gerowen: is this what you're looking for? https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
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17:09<DusXMT>okay, that's lovely, hikari 2.2.2 works with Debian's wlroots 0.11.0, it's an older version but at least it's something, newer versions do require newer wlroots, but perhaps it wouldn't be hard to "patch that out"
17:10<Gerowen>Fumbor: That's it, thanks, :-)
17:10<roryprice>@somiaj, Nothing different happened
17:10<DusXMT>who knows. Either way, I'm glad to have at least something to play around with on Bullseye with Wayland
17:11<Gerowen>Fumbor: With my laptop and desktop I'll probably just do clean installs, but the home server I'm going to do an in place upgrade to avoid having to reconfigure tons of services that other people outside my house depend on.
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17:11<DusXMT>also: QT finally works under Hikari :D This is wonderful!
17:12<DusXMT>(Without XWayland)
17:12<somiaj>roryprice: hmm, I kinda missed what was happening, but from your Xorg.0.log X is working just fine, it is just shutting down as soon as it starts up, and I think that is because you aren't creating an xsession and running your windowmanager/dm of choice
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17:12<roryprice>@somiaj, Nothing different happened?
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17:12<roryprice>sorry, misstyped
17:13<marhas>Debian 11 is out now!
17:13<roryprice>what's my windowmanager or dm?
17:13<roryprice>ok, I got xterm to start
17:13<Fumbor>Gerowen: I've already upgraded about 10 servers in-place....the only real PITA was things like dovecot (that uses a lot of little configuration files, which showed me debconf questions for every single configuration file more or less....ansible will be my solution for that next time)
17:13<somiaj>roryprice: I'm unsure here, but a window manager/desktop enviorment (should have said de)
17:13<roryprice>oh, sorry. xfce
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17:13<somiaj>roryprice: so you are in xorg running xterm, okay, so now lets jsut start xfce
17:14<Fumbor>https://micronews.debian.org/2021/1628982499.html
17:14<somiaj>roryprice: try replacing 'exec xterm' with 'exec xfce4-session' in your .xsession file
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17:16<roryprice>wow, it worked
17:16<roryprice>I got my regular UI, everything
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17:17<somiaj>unsure why your display manager (lightdm) isn't working, but at least you can be back into your enviroment to debug from here on out
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17:18<roryprice>thanks
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17:23<roryprice>at least I have a way of doing things for now
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17:28<enyc> https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210814
17:28<enyc> =)
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17:29<roryprice>https://askubuntu.com/questions/74551/lightdm-not-starting-on-boot this fixed it. Lightdm now works. Thanks to everyone who helped.
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17:29<somiaj>glad you got things back to normal
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17:31<roryprice>yup. Now, back to learning about KVM, hopefully without screwing up this time.
17:31<DusXMT>I wonder, has volatile (bullseye-updates) been removed?
17:31<DusXMT>E: Failed to fetch http://ftp.sk.debian.org/debian/dists/bullseye-updates/InRelease 403 Forbidden [IP: <my addr>]
17:32<DusXMT>(whoops, I just assumed it was mine, it was [IP: 195.80.174.186 80]
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17:34<DusXMT>it works now, they were probably just updating that file in the instant that I tried to pull it
17:34<ansgar>DusXMT: No. Maybe wait a few minutes for mirrors to finish syncing.
17:34<DusXMT>thanks!
17:34<crazyfrog>hey, after configuration lxc network settings i can't ssh or ping anymore to the host, this are my settings https://paste.debian.net/hidden/9cac4451/ can someone help me please?
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17:41-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #debian to: Current Debian release: bullseye 11.0 /msg dpkg bullseye | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog | Community expectations: http://deb.li/conduct
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17:44<FizzBuzz>YES
17:45<crawler>Happy release day
17:45<crawler>\o/
17:46<somiaj>!congragulations
17:46<somiaj>grr,
17:46<bremner>!grr
17:46*dpkg growls at bremner
17:46<bremner>aww :)
17:46<somiaj>!congratulations
17:46<dpkg>Oh BOY!! I won!!
17:47<somiaj>language is hard
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18:02<mpmc>So, I heard there was cake?
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18:02<ansgar>mpmc: Yes: 🍥🍥🍥
18:03<mpmc>asadsa: 01F365 is an odd tasting cake :p
18:03<lifesgood>any special motive for that?
18:03<mpmc>ansgar: that was for you lol
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18:07<Nirgal>Hi. Is there a bullseye security repository yet? My apt doesn't like "deb http://security.debian.org/ bullseye/updates main contrib non-free" ...
18:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 1002] by debhelper
18:08<bremner>Nirgal: check the release notes. It was renamed
18:09<basilgello>Change one to deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security
18:10<crawler>Nirgal https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#bullseye-security
18:11<choozy>Congratulations on the Bullseye release :)
18:12<basilgello>ya Happy bullseye! :)))
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18:12<lifesgood>I join to the congrats statements
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18:15<lifesgood>not even better because is not LTS
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18:16<basilgello>Hm? Every release is covered by LTS and ELTS then
18:16-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17<basilgello>lifesgood: or you are referring to LTS Ubuntu-way?
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18:18<lifesgood>correct me but debian has long term support also, pretty much like ubuntu
18:18<somiaj>lifesgood: They mean drastically different things imo
18:19<somiaj>ubuntu has special lts releases (along side its normal release cycle)
18:19<somiaj>debian has a long release process, release (~2 years), oldstable (~1 year), LTS support (~2 years), ELTS (~2 more years)
18:19<basilgello>Yes it does. https://www.debian.org/lts/ and https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
18:19<somiaj>so this gives each release 5-7 years of support for server side stuff
18:20<basilgello>Exactly. At least, 7 years for security fixes in critical packages
18:20<somiaj>Though offical support is only about 3 years, LTS and ELTS are supported using corparate donations for those who need a longer life span
18:21<basilgello>For desktop, I bet no one uses desktop software *that* long :) Not me at least
18:21<somiaj>and if using LTS and ELTS one should at least consider helping support freexian (which isn't actually debian)
18:21<somiaj>yea, desktop users get itchy about a year into a release thingin everything is outdated
18:22<somiaj>since even now, buster packages are ~6 months old and some don't like that
18:22<crawler>desktop users already waited long enough :D
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18:23<basilgello>oh yeah, so stable for servers, eternal testing for desktops / htpcs
18:23<somiaj>arg I mental bullseye, my fingers need to learn the new stable's name
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18:24<basilgello>BTW oes anyone know if it is necessary to explicitly confirm codename change if apt sources.list points to testing and unattended-upgrades is effective? Or unattended-upgrades steps over to bookworm happily without SSHing and doing "apt update" manually?
18:25<at0m>why use codename if you can call it testing? ;)
18:25-!-debalance [~quassel@00017b9a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
18:25<FizzBuzz>It won't always be testing
18:26<somiaj>codenames are better since you can choose to change at a time of your choice
18:26<FizzBuzz>It is like naming a child before you give birth.
18:26<basilgello>Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/84caf98351b298c0c2ee7ed61792d091/pasted.txt
18:26<dvs>basilgello: because the code name can change at any time which could break your system
18:26<basilgello>because of tgis
18:26<hmh>hmm, lots of stuff to teach dpkg... and release history seems to have hit a size limit
18:26<somiaj>though some like to live on the wild side and use links like 'testing', and those wierdos should be in #debian-next for the fun times now that the floodgate has opened
18:27<at0m>somiaj: yea always there :)
18:27<somiaj>hmh: in the works, the ops have a list of things to do to change/update the factoids
18:27<hmh>somiaj: ah, ok. I updated some of it already.
18:27<somiaj>and yea, I was noticing the same thing, the release history may have to be shorted somehow, maybe remove the dates or versions
18:27<basilgello>s/weirdos/contributors/ ;)
18:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 996] by debhelper
18:28<somiaj>hmh: would you like some info about who to work with this on the updates so they are tracked?
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18:28<hmh>somiaj: no need, I am unlikely to do much more on this, unfortunately.
18:29<somiaj>hmh: Okay, well thanks for the updates
18:29<hmh>I just updated: bullseye, release, release history.
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18:30<somiaj>hmh: thanks
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18:30<basilgello>dvs: I will intentionally not SSH till another desktop gets its round of unattended-upgrades and check the journal, then :)
18:31<hmh>somiaj: will update buster->bullseye as a last thing, since it is important. removing the moving target thing that is not relevant anymore, replacing with a recommendation to read the release notes.
18:31<hmh>never mind, that requires also updating "release notes". argh. :-)
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18:32<crawler>CTRL+R in bash is super cool :)
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18:32<somiaj>hmh: there is already a script in place to update most these things, I would just wait until that is run.
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18:33<somiaj>hmh: This will be all updated in the next few days.
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18:33<hendursaga>Yay! Bullseye is OUT! :)
18:34<hmh>somiaj: ok, stopping now, then.
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18:42<hendursaga>Now to finally check out Sway!
18:43<computerworm110>YEEESSS! Bullseye is here! :D
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19:03<spawacz>!win
19:04<crazyfrog>hey, after configuration lxc network settings i can't ssh or ping anymore to the host, this are my settings https://paste.debian.net/hidden/9cac4451/ can someone help me please?
19:04<somiaj>!win spawacz
19:04<dpkg>Congratulations, spawacz! You have won a one way ticket to Nova Scotia!
19:05<spawacz>What is Nova Scotia?
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19:05<spawacz>I see.
19:05<crazyfrog>after creating a new lxc container the container is not starting anymore: No container config specified, which file should it be for an unprivileged lxc container?
19:06<dvs>spawacz: What do you have against Canada? ;-P
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19:06<spawacz>Nothing, why
19:06<dvs>spawacz: that's where your ticket is going
19:07<spawacz>:)
19:08<spawacz>You even have Sydney there :D
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19:10<toad_>When I attempt to upgrade from buster to bullseye, update-initramfs says there is no space left on device. Yet /boot is 1GB and only 12% full. Ideas?
19:10<tarzeau>toad_: some other place but /boot? df -h
19:11<tarzeau> /tmp or / maybe?
19:11<vv221>Might be inodes saturation too, you can see that with `df -hi`
19:11<toad_>Both of those have plenty of space
19:11<vv221>(in /boot that would be surprising)
19:11<toad_>Also fine
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19:15<lifesgood>I love what the gparted can do when coupled in a boot media.
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19:17<toad_>It might be /var/tmp... I'm surprised that it needs more than 148MB though....
19:18<toad_>What is /var/tmp anyway? Persistent temp space?
19:18<tarzeau>vv221: inode saturation? sometimes i wonder why people don't use xfs or btrfs
19:18<nicolas17>running "apt-get update" in a "debian:stable" Docker container is now failing because http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/stable/ doesn't exist, that's a fun way to discover bullseye was released :/
19:19<vv221>I’m a boring person, I use whatever the Debian installer suggests as a default file system ;)
19:19<lifesgood>I love to see advances in tools with time for example what htop did to top
19:19<somiaj>nicolas17: probably should be using 'buster' and not 'stable'
19:19<vv221>nicolas17, if you used "stable" instead of "buster", this is the kind of issue you should expect.
19:20<somiaj>in general stable is a bad thing to use in sources.list, because on release day your system will upgrade/unexpeictally break, you want to upgrade at a time of your choosing
19:21<nicolas17>I thought "stable" and "buster" (as of yesterday) would be the same docker image though, rather than one saying literally "stable" in sources.list...
19:21<toad_>I'm getting errors on apt-get upgrade from javascript-common and libapache2-mod-auth-plain. Both are mysterious errors in post-install/config scripts AFAICS...
19:21<tarzeau>lifesgood: what about ifconfig vs ip?
19:22<toad_>Is there any way to get more logs/more verbosity from the post-installation scripts?
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19:24<toad_>apt-get --reinstall install javascipt-common gives "Internal error, no file name for javascript-common:amd64"
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19:24<somiaj>I don't think so, I think you can edit the script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ and add a shell flag to make it give more output
19:25<toad_>Purge and reinstall worked ... weird...
19:26-!-Linux-Fan [~Linux-Fan@p4fcd2857.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #debian [Good Bye all]
19:26<lifesgood>tarzeau, my debian dont recogniza ifconfig
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19:26<tarzeau>lifesgood: install net-tools
19:27<somiaj>or just learn to use ip, and realize net-tools is depericated
19:27<tarzeau>somiaj: it's not like i didn't know net-tools is depreciated.
19:28<bremner>and yet you still recommend it ?
19:28<somiaj>that was more for lifesgood instead of you
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19:32<lifesgood>once you where newbie also, remember that before think to mock me.
19:33<somiaj>no mocking, just pointing out ip is installed by default
19:34<lifesgood>is just a matter of tim, |I shall do LPIC 100000000 and came back teaching leasons, I thats a promice.
19:36<crazyfrog>how is the command on debian to set lxc.apparmor.profile = unconfined?
19:36<tarzeau>on phoronix i read The "open" command is now an alias to xdg-open.
19:36<vv221>somiaj, you really have something with "deprecated" ;P
19:36<tarzeau>where/and how is that configured?
19:36<somiaj>vv221: it is language in general, without spell check I'm terrible. I should really figure out how to get spellcheck in irssi
19:36<tarzeau>it's not an alias, it's an alternatives
19:37<nicolas17>bleh, I procrastinated updating my system to bullseye for so long that now it's released and I'm in oldstable
19:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 984] by debhelper
19:39<somiaj>oldstable is fully supported for a year, then gets passed on to lts
19:40<lilideb>Does this mean that the disk is beyond salvagable? "Read Device Identity failed: scsi error medium or hardware error (serious)" when checked up with smartctl
19:41<lilideb>I wont be able to recover any data at all?
19:41<nicolas17>impossible to tell just from that
19:42<lilideb>ok
19:42<nicolas17>I had serious-looking errors that turned out to be a loose cable
19:43<sussudio>or a bad powersupply/power cable
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19:43<nicolas17>I had serious-looking errors that turned out to be a damaged disk head, and with enough $$$ in professional data recovery they got everything back
19:43<lifesgood>once I tryied clonezilla with a 2T USB HD and was a complete failure. the soft left me a bad impression. but someonelese mey be lucky.
19:44<nicolas17>(guess the platters were fine)
19:45<choozy>Hello
19:45<lifesgood>to save only the important directories is not an ideal backup.
19:45<choozy>I upgraded to Bullseye and the kernel didn't upgrade, what could the cause of that be?
19:47<somiaj>choozy: sounds like you don't have the kernel meta package installed, linux-image-amd64 for isntance
19:48<choozy>Yes, I am reading it as of this moment somiaj, thank you
19:48<somiaj>also if you didn't have this meta package installed, sounds like you may have missed out on kernel upgrades in the paste, make sure to install the meta package
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19:51<choozy>Are the RT kernels for Real Time operation?
19:52<lilideb>when i run "analyze" in testdisk. it just output "Partition: read error". Should i try further? Or does this means its completely broken
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19:54<lilideb>nevermind. it seems to run after i hit "quick search"
19:55-!-choozy [~choozy@75-63-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:55<vv221>Fetching bug reports from the BTS through apt-listbugs started failing a couple minutes ago. Is it only on my side, or does anyone else here experience similar issues?
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19:57<nicolas17>vv221: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=987187
19:57<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/987187 in libcurl3-gnutls (open): «libcurl3-gnutls from debian backports breaks git http operations»; severity: important; opened: 2021-04-19; last modified: 2021-06-06.
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19:57<nicolas17>the site is failing for me too
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19:57<nicolas17>(that's just a random bug)
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19:58<vv221>Right, I did not think about checking the BTS in a Web browser, it is failing this way too.
19:59<somiaj>choozy: yes RT kernels are kernels with real time options enabled, unsure on exact details
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20:00<lilideb>if every cylinder gets a read error in testdisk analyzing. does it mean the ssd is completely ruined?
20:01<sussudio>how old is the ssd
20:02<choozy>Thank you somiaj
20:02<lilideb>or wait its maybe even not a sssd just normal thin laptop hd
20:02<lilideb>but yeah a few years for sure
20:02<somiaj>Almost sounds like you need more prefressional help if you really want the data back. I had an ssd crap out after 3-4 months of use, lost some data, lesson learned, make more regular updates
20:02<lilideb>just laying around
20:02<choozy>I installed the 'normal' transactional package and now it works as it should on kernel 5.10.x
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20:03<somiaj>sometimes it is just the firmware on the drive, and putting the plates in another machine can get them, but this can be costly and requires a lot of expert knowledge once the device itself has trouble.
20:03<somiaj>choozy: meta package, and make sure you keep the meta package installed, this is the only way to ensure you get security fixes to the kernel with abi changes.
20:03<lilideb>the data is not important, but since i got a bunch of old disks around, i want to see what i can do before just throwing them out. its a good excuse to use linux too :)
20:03<choozy>Ah yes, meta package
20:04<nicolas17>somiaj: if you move the physical platters to another disk, you often need to transfer the EEPROM from the logic board too because it has drive-specific calibration info
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20:12<dbristow>What gcc does 11.0.0 ship with?
20:12<dbristow>What emacs?
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20:15<nicolas17>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/emacs
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20:15<FizzBuzz>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/allpackages?format=txt.gz
20:16<FizzBuzz>Ctrl-F / grep whatever
20:16<dbristow>Cool.
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20:18<dbristow>gcc is a big jump, 8.3.0 to 10.2.something, wow
20:19<dbristow>Similar for clang
20:19<dbristow>and emacs is 27.something, not bad
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20:20<somiaj>don't think of version numbers as a 'big jump', seems more and more things are just doing major versions vs minor with newer rleaese
20:20<somiaj>in most cases it is about ~2years newer software
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20:23<dbristow>somiaj, OK.
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20:25<somiaj>dbristow: you can also /msg judd v packagename if you want to see various versions
20:25<dbristow>somiaj, I just grabbed the *.gz and started zgrep'ping.
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20:25<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#major-packages there is a list of versions in the release notes for what they think are popular enough packages
20:26<dbristow>somiaj, OK, that's good too.
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20:26<kushal_kumaran>search on bugs.debian.org getting 500 Internal Server Error for anyone else?
20:27<kushal_kumaran>e.g, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=firefox-esr
20:27<somiaj>kushal_kumaran: saw another channel with a similar issue, give it a moment
20:28<kushal_kumaran>thanks somiaj
20:29<somiaj>I get a simliar error, my guess is it will be back up shortly
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20:47<dave_k>the problem with bugs.debian.org is known already, yes?
20:47<somiaj>yes
20:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 974] by debhelper
20:48<somiaj>well it is known by us, and I assume the admins have been informed and are working on it.
20:48<FizzBuzz>How do you report a bug for bugs.debian.org?
20:49<somiaj>well it is a catch-22 now, but there is a virtual package you can report bugs against
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20:57<lifesgood__>not here to annoy anyone but I tasted Macrium R|eflect now and is an outstandind software. in an snap of fingers cloned my 4 partition ssd.
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21:03<alex11>i'm trying to get the key from keyring.debian.org and it keeps telling me gpg: keyserver receive failed: Server indicated a failure
21:03<alex11>there we go, works now
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21:13<lifesgood__>I wish people could have motivation to develop binaries like midnight commander. is a piece of art. irssi also. and stuff.
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21:14<leo60228>i installed bullseye while it was testing, i don't have to do anything special now that it's stable, right?
21:14<leo60228>(to be clear i'd like to stay on bullseye, not move to the next testing)
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21:15<nicolas17>see if your /etc/apt/sources.list says "testing" or "bullseye"
21:15<dave_k>yes, you want the latter so that you track bullseye instead of the new testing
21:15<leo60228>nicolas17: it does
21:16<nicolas17>which? :P
21:16<leo60228>bullseye
21:16<nicolas17>then yeah nothing to do :)
21:16<dave_k>what about adding a stable source?
21:16<dave_k>I mean a security-updates source
21:16<dave_k>instructions here: https://www.debian.org/security/
21:17<dave_k>and I recommend using https in the sources.list file instead of http
21:17<leo60228>i already have `deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main`, is that separate?
21:18<dave_k>is that the only line you have in your apt sources file?
21:18<leo60228>no, i also have `deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main`
21:18<leo60228>and a deb-src for each
21:18<dave_k>ok that seems to be correct, but I would search and replace http with https
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21:18<leo60228>okay, thanks
21:18<toad_>I'm trying to build a third party debian package. Its configure script fails, it says ccache cannot create /run/user/0/ccache-tmp ... but I'm *not* running it as root, so the uid should not be 0, and if I run the ccache command line directly it works. Any ideas?
21:19<dave_k>just a hunch, but I think that is part of the purpose of the fakeroot(1) command
21:19<imMute>toad_: are you using debuild? that uses fakeroot to make the build process think it's running as root (mainly for tracking perms on installed files when it builds the tarball)
21:20<lifesgood__>i reades elsewhere that there is no counter measures of security against man-in-the-middle attack
21:20<imMute>lifesgood__: that's false.
21:20<toad_>I think it is using fakeroot ... it looks like the packaging script hasn't been updated in a while, I had to change linux-kernel-headers to linux-headers-generic in control...
21:20<nicolas17>lifesgood__: against mitm where?
21:21<lifesgood__>the middle server impersonates the target with confidence
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21:21<nicolas17>which server? which protocol?
21:21<toad_>And yes it is definitely using debuild
21:21<dave_k>and which users? because users can override warnings about invalid or missing certificates
21:22<dave_k>toad_: what is the command that you're using in order to start building the package?
21:23<toad_>build-debs.sh :| Which runs debuild with some arguments ... 1mo ...
21:24<dave_k>1mo = 1 moment? (I think it usually means 1 million? or 1 month?)
21:24<toad_>debuild -us -uc -i -I.git
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21:27<lifesgood__>nobody today sees or audit the certificates details, one valid certificate for certigign or anyoneele are arranged with easy
21:28<imMute>wat?
21:28<lifesgood__>today is easy implement https
21:28<dave_k>lifesgood__: can you link to documents that you have read that explain what you are referring to, please?
21:29<dave_k>I consider security important, and I am aware of some security flaws that have been documented but not solved
21:30<dave_k>I read somewhere that SSL is broken by design, because there is so much trust placed in the certificate authorities, and any CA can sign any certificate for any site
21:31<dave_k>therefore, a rogue CA can break security of any site
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21:31<imMute>dave_k: that's mostly true. but you can deploy TLS and *not* use the internet CA structure. and such things are "safe"
21:31<lifesgood__>my last site had https from certisign
21:31<dave_k>but that may depend on the site settings. Is there a way to only accept certificates from a specific CA?
21:32<lifesgood__>nobody click the lock in browser to read the details
21:32<imMute>dave_k: talking about web browsers there - those almost unversally trust the internet CAs.
21:32<dave_k>lifesgood__: if it makes you feel better, I always check certificate validity
21:32<imMute>dave_k: but, for example, my OpenVPN server has it's own CA and clients are configured to only trust that CA.
21:32<imMute>lifesgood__: that's demonstrably false - I checked the details on some certs just this week.
21:33<dave_k>imMute: I do the same thing for remote access software. But it requires distributing your certificate to all clients, which is impractical for most websites
21:33<lifesgood__>|I should consider your behavior an exception inmarket imMute
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21:34<imMute>dave_k: yeah, for the current Web, it's pretty entrenched
21:34<jhutchins>I believe this would be a more appropriate subject for a security channel or #debian-offtopic.
21:34<jhutchins>It is not relelvant to Debian Support.
21:35<FizzBuzz>Does debian require the CA package as a depends?
21:35<dave_k>lifesgood__: browsers are getting better about not only warning users when there is a problem with the SSL certificate of a site, but also completely blocking various types of non-https content. Firefox recently upgraded their default setting there to require more than just active content to be served over https
21:35<dave_k>jhutchins: okay, good point
21:37<toad_>So any ideas why fakeroot is breaking ccache?
21:38<toad_>Or how to tell the package build not to use ccache?
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21:38<lifesgood__>to get a https or certificate I need only a 'cold' credential, an unknown dude with addres, phone, ID, and the email of the domain to apply https
21:39<dave_k>lifesgood__: come to #security
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21:39<jhutchins>lifesgood__: Please take this discussion to a more appropriate channel.
21:39<lifesgood__>ok
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21:41<toad_>It is not obvious from "man debuild" what the options are ... it only gives the full-width options, and if they're just abbreviated then -us -uc makes no sense...
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21:44<Gerowen>Only had one brain fart so far doing in-place upgrades for all my machines. On my home server the upgrade uninstalled mariadb-server, so my Nextcloud wouldn't start upon rebooting. Easy enough to reinstall it, but that's the only hiccup so far. All the other regular desktop machines have upgraded in place without issue.
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21:45<FizzBuzz>Does localepurge work on kernel modules in bullseye?
21:46<FizzBuzz>it didn't in buster
21:47<dave_k>toad_: -us -uc are "[debuild options]" in the debuild manpage
21:47<dave_k>see the dpkg-buildpackage(1) manpage for their documentation
21:47<dave_k>-ui also
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21:49<rythmyft>Debian 11 is really awesome!
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21:51<toad_>Hmmm, linux-headers-generic pseudopackage for buster, linux-kernel-headers for bullseye ... I wonder how to express that in control.in ...
21:52<toad_>Other way around :)
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22:23<jhutchins>Gerowen: I believe there was something in the release notes about that.
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22:44<Konomi>I've noticed https://www.debian.org/security/ doesn't list bullseye yet, does that come in the next few days or?
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23:05<sazamoracl>Hi everyone. Noticed today that 'bullseye-updates' wass added to my sources.list, should add or modify something in my sources.list now that bullseye it is stable? (i already was on testing)
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23:05<sazamoracl>Thanks !
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23:07<Sqrt{not}>!bullseye sources.list
23:07<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main". Note that bullseye does not yet have security support and is a <moving target>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-security>, or <bullseye-updates> and "man sources.list".
23:10<Konomi>that's ironic considering https://paste.debian.net/plainh/638f68e9 bullseye-security already has some updates?
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23:21<sazamoracl>dpkg: Ok, I have the correct lines in sources then. I appreciate your help. Thank you.
23:21<dpkg>You are person #2 to send an unparseable request, sazamoracl
23:22<nurupo>dpkg: good bot
23:22<sazamoracl>: D
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23:25<sazamoracl>One more question. If a new version of a package was waiting for approval on testing just before bullseye go stable, that package will arrive to stable in any time or it will simply remain in testing ?
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23:27<sazamoracl>nvidia-driver was waiting for nvidia-modprobe to enter on bullseye before updating (tracker), but it not happen during last two weeks.
23:29<dave_k>sazamoracl: packages in testing were frozen as early as February of 2021 and as late as July of 2021. So no new packages are entering Stable until 2 years from now when the next testing becomes stable
23:29<dave_k>see https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye
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23:30<alex11>okay, so buster -> bullseye seems to have gone mostly smoothly except one thing, biboumi.service is listed as failed, how to diagnose?
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23:35<imMute>journalctl -u biboumi.service -e
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23:36<sazamoracl>dave_k: exactly, i see some packages version upgrades until later July so I thought that 460.91.03-1 to 470.57.02-2 could happen in any time also. I understand.
23:37<alex11>ah, blank password field
23:37<dvs>sazamoracl: you could find it in bullseye-backports
23:37<alex11>ok, no issues
23:37<sazamoracl>dvs: yep, I know : D
23:39<sazamoracl>thanks 4 help.
23:40<alex11>happy release day to all and here's to 2 years of bullseye :D
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23:45<sazamoracl>alex11: yeap, happy release day. !!
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23:51<xnaas>Upgraded from 10 to 11, and after a reboot, I have one package (guile-2.2-libs) that seems to be held back? 🤔
23:53<xnaas>logs: https://gist.github.com/xnaas/27c3c9098fb029a6ea4bcceedaa3fac3
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23:54<xnaas>(I had no packages help back prior to upgrade.)
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23:56<somiaj>,v guile-2.2-libs
23:56<judd>Package: guile-2.2-libs on amd64 -- buster: 2.2.4+1-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 2.2.7+1-6; sid: 2.2.7+1-6
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23:57<somiaj>xnaas: I do notice you have some other repos like oldstable, could it be you have a package installed that requires the older version of that package.
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23:57<xnaas>hmmm...totally possible. That repo doesn't have a bullseye yet, so... 😅
23:57<somiaj>xnaas: start with things like 'aptitude why guile-2.2-libs' or 'apt install guile-2.2-libs' and see if you can track down what depends is exactly requiring that older package
23:58<somiaj>you ccould also try 'full-upgrade' vs upgrade, full-upgrade will actually remove packages to upgrade things, and you might determine what package needs to be removed to allow the upgrade on your system.
---Logclosed Sun Aug 15 00:00:53 2021