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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-15

---Logopened Sun Aug 15 00:00:53 2021
---Daychanged Sun Aug 15 2021
00:00<xnaas>ah, running another full-upgrade seems to have resolved it
00:01<somiaj>what package did it have to remove?
00:01<somiaj>are you sure you didn't want that package? just thinkgs to check
00:01<xnaas>none of these are things I recognize in any way, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
00:01<xnaas>assuming it's all normal built-in debian stuff :P
00:01<somiaj>also check 'apt search ~o' or 'apt remove ~o' to deal with any obsolete packages you may still have on your system.
00:01<somiaj>yea, might just be some obslete packages
00:02<somiaj>,v libgc1c2
00:02<judd>Package: libgc1c2 on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.4.2-8; buster: 1:7.6.4-0.4; sid: 1:7.6.4-0.4
00:02<somiaj>yea, an obslete package
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00:02<xnaas>"apt search ~o" didn't have anything, so presumably all good now.
00:02<xnaas>overall, the 10 → 11 upgrade was pretty painless 👏
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00:03<xnaas>had to recreate a python venv for an irc bot, but that was the largest pain, everything else (other than above random leftover package) was good :D
00:04<xnaas>thanks again 👍
00:04<somiaj>was it due to python2 being no more, or just your old enviorment wasn't compadable with the newer version of python3 (though I guess if it was hardcoded to like python3.7 and changing to python3.9 would break it)
00:04<somiaj>glad things were mostly painless, debian tries hard on that front..can't always get everything, but most work
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00:05<xnaas>yeah, it didn't like the 3.7.x to 3.9.x upgrade, even when doing "python -m venv --upgrade /path/to/venv"
00:05<lifesgood__>once I managed to buid a bot to chat with me. was the most boring thing I did in my whole life.
00:05<xnaas>so I just recreated the venv and install packages through pip again and tada
00:05<somiaj>well good, I haven't used enough venv's to deal with this just yet
00:06<lifesgood__>the best bot in maktet is at most brainless.
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00:14<alex11>'open' is an interesting change
00:19<somiaj>ahh yea, since I guess xdg-open is 4 too many characters
00:19<lifesgood__>one thing that I see very useful in fish shell is when you type the word and it searches smartly the closest word and if you decide to use type right arrow. Is a clever improvement in bash.history, dont you think?
00:19<somiaj>though I guess I htink the idea is it allows for other tools besides xdg-open to be used since it uses the alternative system, which provides more variety
00:20<somiaj>lifesgood__: yea various tools like that, some like dmenu_run for a similar reason
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00:23<alex11>guess i might uninstall rsyslog
00:23<alex11>now that it's persistent systemd journal
00:24<imMute>alex11: I uninstalled rsyslog like 3 years ago. journalctl for lyfe
00:24<alex11>bash: python: command not found :D
00:24<alex11>good riddance
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00:26<somiaj>alex11: apt install python-is-python3 if you want the similink
00:26<alex11>oh cool
00:27<lifesgood__>python2 --version python3 --version
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00:27<themill>hard to see that an unversioned symlink is a good thing
00:28<somiaj>the link /usr/bin/python (which starting with bullseye is no longer required to be python2) can optionally be made as a link to python3 for those who still want to run 'python' vs 'python3'
00:28<somiaj>though probably don't use this in shebangs, always version your shebang properly
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00:36<alex11>i was honestly expecting a ton of configuration change fonts and it only happened with one thing
00:36<alex11>the rest of it was very automagic
00:36<alex11>configuration change prompts*
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00:36<somiaj>It should only ask if you manually change the configuration files
00:37<alex11>oh hmm
00:37<alex11>aaaaaaa, shit, i have to revert this one then :P
00:37<somiaj>yea, debconf stores md5sums of configuration files, and will only ask if you don't want the default during the upgrade if this md5sum doesn't match (hence you or some script manually changed the conf file)
00:38<alex11>i misunderstood then
00:38<alex11>oh well no big deal
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00:39<somiaj>yea, basically it is setup to not mess with personal configurations, but if you just use the default, it assumes you want the newer default
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00:40<lifesgood__>just to mention, when I do a standard installation, one extra that I cant miss I Geany app, its so simple to manage text, lightweight, recognizes lots of languages. Is a piece of art that cant disapear never.
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00:41<somiaj>lifesgood__: did it use to be in debian?
00:42<somiaj>ahh guess I missunderstood you, it appears to still be in debian
00:42<somiaj>,v geany
00:42<judd>Package: geany on amd64 -- stretch: 1.29-1; buster: 1.33-1; bookworm: 1.37.1-2; bullseye: 1.37.1-2; sid: 1.37.1-3
00:42<lifesgood__>imspler to do annotations not complex
00:42<lifesgood__>could be in stndard installation
00:42<somiaj>debian standard doens't mean what you think it does
00:42<dpkg>standard task is, like, a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
00:43<somiaj>this is actually a very small set of software (that doesn't even have a gui)
00:43<somiaj>anything after standard is optional, and the user should just get use to installing the optional packages they want. But I doubt this will be picked up by default by any DE, so just install it yourself
00:44<lifesgood__>well I install on separate, but for sure has gui
00:45<somiaj>I'm just pointing out that what debian means by 'standard' is a very minimial setup, and almost everything in debian is 'optional'
00:45<somiaj>though I suspect you are using the installing a DE task, though I doubt (since it really isn't developed by the big DE teams) geany will make its way into the DE meta-package depends
00:47<lifesgood__>I always prefer it than staroffice, openoffice, they are too much complex for small tasks
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00:48<somiaj>yup, I use vim, though I'm sure there are emacs lovers lurking out there
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02:05<mechanic>Hey, trying to add my scanner to debian, but having issues finding it, as it is not within the same network :/ is there a way to add a scanner permanently like printers with lpadmin?
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02:11<jochum>mechanic: what model is it?
02:11<mechanic>Brother MFC-L2710DW
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02:12<mechanic>so, my main network is in the space, but my pc I want to add the scanner to (I already added the printer) is in
02:12<mechanic>eh, more like printer part, as it's a mfc
02:14<jochum>mechanic: you can ping it?
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02:15<jochum>mechanic: seems brother has .deb's for that printer -
02:15<jochum>mechanic: did you try those?
02:16<mechanic>no, I am using the eSCL protocol
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02:17<jochum>mechanic: maybe someone else is able to help you, I've helped some people to install a scanner but not with your multi network + eSCL configuration :/
02:18<mechanic>jochum I figured it out right now, I just had to add the scanner url (with a name) to /etc/sane.d/airscan.conf
02:18<jochum>mechanic: great!
02:18<jochum>And thanks for letting me now.
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02:19<mechanic>jochum I want to avoid as much as possible the brother drivers, as those are stuck on i386 :/
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02:19<mechanic>yw :)
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02:37<mechanic>jochum damn, so it tells it "finds" the scanner, but can't scan :/
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02:42<jochum>mechanic: can you test it by moving it to your network?
02:42<jochum>mechanic: if so, move it back after and see what tcpdump gives. :)
02:42<mechanic>jochum in the space, everything works fine (as it can be auto discovered by all tools)
02:42<jochum>mechanic: maybe some f.....g broadcast packages
02:43<jochum>also brother talks about this outgoing ports for theier scan software: "UDP: 54925 TCP: 54921"
02:44<jochum>maybe eSCL has others, i don't know.
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02:45<mechanic>jochum yeah it works over 443 (if encrypted)
02:45<jochum>hmm on the debian page i read about that: avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp avahi-browse -rt _uscans._tcp -
02:46<jochum>mechanic: which sounds for me like you need proxy/forward mdns
02:46<jochum>mechanic: not sure if its a solution though :/
02:46<mechanic>jochum i tried those even in and they don't work here :/
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02:48<jochum>mechanic: so you have a PC in the other space, what about tcpdump/wireshark a scan?
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02:48<jochum>mechanic: while i google eSCL and multi networks
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02:49<mechanic>in which space or
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02:50<trench>nmap ?
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02:50<jochum>mechanic: <-- this is interesting (Airprint relays on mDNS someone says)
02:51<jochum>mechanic: scan over eSCL in the space and see if tcpdump gives any broadcast shit
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02:53<mechanic>yeah sounds like I need a mdns repeater, so lets see
02:54<trench>why? :P
02:56<trench>go read there maybe?
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02:57<trench> or there?
02:58<mechanic>trench i am trying to use airscan, which works in but not space
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02:59<trench>mechanic: did you read the last page?
03:00<jochum>trench: last page of?
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03:02<xormor>where do I see if my system automatically upgraded itself during the night time?
03:03<trench>you can check /var/log/apt
03:05<trench>mechanic: that one also
03:05<mechanic>trench yeah that one I already read, but as airscan can't find the scanner, and if I add it manually, it won't work :/ can't connect it says
03:06<jochum>xormor: mabe unattended-upgrades it is, not sure what you mean by "upgrades in the night"
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03:08<trench>mechanic: did you try this tool:
03:08<mechanic>more likely also in /var/log/unattended-upgrade/
03:08<mechanic>trench yes, can't find anything
03:10<jochum>mechanic: so you gonna add a mDNS repeater on your router?
03:10<mechanic>jochum I already did, but still nothing
03:10<jochum>mechanic: when you open the scan app, does it do mDNS?
03:10<jochum>in the network
03:11<jochum>mechanic: so it works over mDNS ?
03:11<jochum>mechanic: what does it resolv?
03:11<jochum>_uscan.local or something?
03:11<mechanic>within the same space yes
03:12<mechanic>no the brother mfc doesn't advertise it in my lan :/
03:12<jochum>but resolving the same with avahi doesn't return anything in ?
03:12<mechanic>avahi-browse doesn't return anything (except when I --all)
03:12<jochum>mechanic: so how does the scan app find the brother in ?
03:13<mechanic>through the eSCL advertisements _shrug_
03:14<jochum>I see, can you enable mDNS in the Printer?
03:15<mechanic>it is enabled :/
03:15<mechanic>i will boot my device, so i can show you the avahi-browse
03:15<jochum>mechanic: I'm guessing all the time mate :)
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03:18<mechanic>lol, now it's advertising _uscans._tcp
03:18<mechanic>but only on the network
03:18<jochum>then we need to fix the repeater?
03:19<mechanic>seems so
03:21<jochum>mechanic: any details you can give about your router?
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03:21<Q-FUNK>E: Repository ' testing-security InRelease' changed its 'Codename' value from 'bullseye-security' to 'bookworm-security'
03:22<Q-FUNK>that's expected, since bullseye was released, but how do I get APT to accept the new data?
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03:22<mechanic>jochum it's a wifi repeater with openwrt, already port forwarded 5353/udp
03:22<raven523>change testing-security in sources.list(.d) to bullseye-security
03:22<mechanic>raven523 not what he was asking
03:22<jochum>Q-FUNK: you mean without asking?
03:22<mechanic>Q-FUNK it should autoaccept, as it's only an info
03:23<Q-FUNK>mechanic: it's not an info. it's an error. the line starts with E, and APT exits with an error.
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03:24<jochum>Q-FUNK: hmm i have no security.... testing-security for me it just worked, by pressing y for each question i got.
03:24<Q-FUNK>jochum: there's probably an option to tell it to accept the codename change and pull that one.
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03:26<jochum>Q-FUNK: apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change
03:27<Q-FUNK>jochum: thanks
03:27<jochum>mechanic: port-forward wont help, you need a repeater let me see
03:27<mechanic>jochum i did install avahi with reflect enabled
03:27<themill>!apt suite changed
03:27<dpkg>If the codename or release status of the release you are using changes (such as testing changes from bullseye to bookworm), apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
03:28<jochum>mechanic: seemts its easy:
03:28<jochum>themill: do you know if theres testing-security? I was always thinking theres nothing in there?
03:29<themill>the archive exists; it is unlikely to have anything in it for 2 years
03:30<Q-FUNK>themill: I dunno. bullseye-{security,update} started having content sometimes around when the soft freeze started.
03:30<themill>which will be in about 2 years time...
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03:31<jochum>So it's basically a good idea to have it?
03:31<Q-FUNK>it never hurts to have them both :)
03:31<themill>yeah, the idea is that it can exist harmlessly in your sources.list; if a package really needs to go into testing-security it can and you'll see it.
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03:32<Q-FUNK>I have this on all my hosts. replace stable with testing on that one lonely testing host I keep.
03:33<themill>I would strongly advise against using 'stable' in your sources.list
03:33<themill>!stable sources.list
03:33<dpkg>Despite the fact previous installers, countless websites and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list (prior to apt 0.9.6) will tell you to do this, do *not* use "stable" in your sources.list; use the release code name instead (e.g. "bullseye"). Upgrading between releases has not been trivial for a decade; make sure you read the <release notes> and ask me about <buster->bullseye>, <jessie sources.list>.
03:34<themill>upgrading between releases needs to be a conscious act that is planned
03:35<Q-FUNK>that info sounds rather outdated. there's hasn't been any issue with upgrades ever since autopktest was implemented.
03:35<mechanic>jochum, hm so verified everything again, avahi is repeating mdns but still no luck :/
03:35<themill>Q-FUNK: umm, yeah, nah.
03:36<themill>Q-FUNK: that becomes even more true with every release. The list of things to watch out for in the upgrade gets longer and more worrying each release.
03:36<jochum>mechanic: i wrote you a private message
03:36<mechanic>yeah sorry, i blocked pms
03:37<jochum>mechanic: so your scan app doesn't show the scanner?
03:37<jochum>in 192.168.1.x ?
03:38<jochum>mechanic: does it ask for _uscan in tcpdump ?
03:38<Q-FUNK>themill: I dunno. Here, from one release to the next, I keep on having fewer and fewer upgrade loops or other issues to resolve.
03:38<jochum>its so great we are on Linux, we can actually fix stuff :)
03:38<mechanic>jochum I assume for whatever reason that openwrt doesn't broadcast mdns :/
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03:40<jochum>mechanic: did you follow the mdns link ?
03:40<themill>Q-FUNK: I'm pleased for you that you are so lucky.
03:40<mechanic>jochum yes
03:40<jochum>mechanic: for your avahi-browser mDNS works?
03:41<mechanic>which ip space do you mean?
03:42<themill>dpkg, buster->bullseye
03:42<dpkg>Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of <release notes> . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list change "buster" to "bullseye", fix the line for security updates (see <bullseye-security>), remove stable-specific lines like buster-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> cause problems with upgrades. If working over ssh, upgrade ssh first, see <bullseye ssh upgrade>.
03:43<themill>(You can't trigger factoids using ! if there's a -> in the factoid name. You do not want to know why.)
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03:44<Afik>Hi all,
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03:46<Afik>After yesterday release, trying to run apt-get update and failed on this error: E: Repository ' buster/updates InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'. any help will be appreciated.
03:46<mechanic>jochum which ip space do you mean?
03:46<jochum>mechanic: 192
03:47<mechanic>jochum nope
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03:47<jochum>mechanic: so same command works in 10 but not in 192 ?
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03:47<mechanic>jochum yes
03:48<jochum>mechanic: I don't know openwrt has it rules for Firewall to LAN/DMZ ?
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03:49<mechanic>yup, triple verified it here :/
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03:49<jochum>mechanic: I assume you have shell access do you have a mdns client on it?
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03:49<jochum>mechanic: maybe a Switch blocking broadcast packages?
03:49<jochum>Some "managed" switches do that
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03:50<mechanic>jochum have shell access, trying to get avahi running :0
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03:51<r4fkramer>Hi all. Finally, Bullseye now in stable version ! Congratulations to All Debian Community for more this Achievement! God bless you always!!!
03:51<themill>dpkg: tell Afik about apt suite changed
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03:51<colin_>d r e
03:52<jochum>dpkg: tell Jochum a secret
03:52<jochum>"<dpkg> No, jochum, I won't. (target invalid?)" :)
03:52<jochum>Nice bot
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03:53<colin_>i am using linux mint 17.3 cinnamon
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03:56<jochum>colin_: old one that is, he?
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03:57<jochum>mechanic: found this one:
03:58<jochum>Linked in the other mdns guide I linked you.
03:59<colin_>ok nevermind
03:59<jochum>"It linked in the other guide which i linked you, which linked to another guide that links to this one ;P" <--- hahaha :)
03:59<colin_>im not going here
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03:59<jochum>colin_: what you mean?
04:00<colin_>im not going to this link
04:02<jochum>I'm not able to give you link that breaks your computer :)
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04:03<colin_>oh ok : )
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04:06<mechanic>jochum yeah no idea how I get this fixed :/ read through, but when I install the dbus version of avahi, avahi doesn't start (with dbus started)
04:06<jochum>mechanic: can you open a PM to me?
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04:19<dpkg>Bullseye is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 11, released 2021-08-14. Bullseye is Woody's horse in Toy Story 2, see . Ask me about <install bullseye>, <release notes>, <buster->bullseye> <bullseye-security>.
04:19<scorpion2185[m]>so was release yesterday in the end?
04:19<scorpion2185[m]>*was it released
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04:20<colin_>i dont know
04:23<mechanic>scorpion2185[m] yes
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04:31<colin_>im bored
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04:36<scorpion2185[m]>is the dvd1 available?
04:37<somiaj>I saw it was already built, other dvd's haven't been unless you use jidgo
04:37<scorpion2185[m]>I only see net-inst
04:38<scorpion2185[m]>I checked torrent
04:38<somiaj>because you are looking at 'cd' not 'dvd'
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04:43<scorpion2185[m]>but the link says CD/DVD and opens CD. I manually entered DVD
04:46*enyc meows
04:46<themill>scorpion2185[m]: "the link"
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04:46<enyc>those are .torrent files
04:46<enyc>the bt- directory is where bittorrent links are
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04:48<scorpion2185[m]>Download CD/DVD images with BitTorrent
04:49<themill>scorpion2185[m]: that goes to a page that lists CD images and DVD image?
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04:49<scorpion2185[m]>NO that goes to my first link only CD. I manually entered DVD to find it
04:50<scorpion2185[m]>and states: Download CD/DVD images with BitTorrent
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04:51<themill>scorpion2185[m]: "Download CD/DVD images with BitTorrent" is a link to
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04:51<scorpion2185[m]>yes only CD but it says CD/DVD
04:52<themill>and has both CDs and DVDs.
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04:53<scorpion2185[m]>I can see only net-inst (amd64)
04:53<scorpion2185[m]>DVD link is hidden, it seems
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04:55<themill>net-inst is not even on that page.
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05:20<crazyfrog>hello, after lxc installation and setting up /etc/network/interfaces i can't connect to the host anymore, can someone help me please:
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05:21<EmleyMoor>Is there "bullseye-updates", like "buster-updates" which replaced "volatile"?
05:22<raven523>what happens when you try to access the host?
05:22<crazyfrog>no ping, no connect
05:22<raven523>does ping just time out? do you get 'destination host unreachable'?
05:22<crazyfrog>time out
05:23<raven523>does the interface in the container have the address and route set up?
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05:23<crazyfrog>no where i have to put the ip of the container in?
05:24<crazyfrog>$ lxc-ls -f shows no ip
05:25<raven523>in this case you could run a DHCP client or enable IPv6 Router Advertisements to get an address from the host's router
05:27<crazyfrog>ok but i need always the same ip address for the container
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05:28<raven523>did you set up /etc/network/interfaces in the container, or whatever the equivalent is for the distro in the container?
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05:28<crazyfrog>should i do this?
05:28<crazyfrog>ok thanks
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05:30<crazyfrog>but the conatiner is not starting,
05:31<raven523>try removing the lxc.apparmor keys from the .conf file
05:31<raven523>or just comment them out
05:33<crazyfrog>removing in /etc/lxc/default.conf the 2 lines with apparmor?
05:34<raven523>yes, or comment them out
05:35<crazyfrog>i remove it in /etc .. and in ~/.etc but it still not starting
05:36<raven523>same error or different?
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05:37<raven523>what do you get from cat /sys/module/apparmor/parameters/enabled ?
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05:38<crazyfrog>just: Y
05:38<raven523>is the apparmor package installed?
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05:40<themill>EmleyMoor: yes, sure is
05:40<crazyfrog>yes apparmor/stable,stable,now 2.13.2-10 amd64 [installed]
05:42<raven523>does it work if you use sudo? apparmor_parser is in /sbin so by default it's not in regular users' $PATH
05:42<crazyfrog>i get: lxc-start: vm10: tools/lxc_start.c: main: 290 No container config specified
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05:43<crazyfrog>i don't know which config file it's means
05:44<raven523>did you provide an argument for -n?
05:45<crazyfrog>yes the name of the container
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05:45<crazyfrog>$ sudo lxc-start -n vm10 -d -F
05:46<raven523>I haven't seen this error before
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05:47<crazyfrog>it's a new installation should i install the system new?
05:47<raven523>did you create the container with lxc-create?
05:49<raven523>maybe you need to use -f with the path to the container's config file
05:49<crazyfrog>rave523 thank you very much, should i make a new system installation, i'll be back in 30min
05:50<raven523>why do you think you need to do that?
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05:50<crazyfrog>raven523> I haven't seen this error before
05:50<raven523>no, do not reinstall
05:51<raven523>reinstalling only makes sense if a system has been severely damaged or compromised
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05:56<xoddf2>raven523: I ended up doing that on my laptop because apt got stuck after I answered yes to upgrading glibc.
05:57<raven523>oof, glibc is a pretty critcal package
05:57<xoddf2>The reinstall succeeded, and I am now installing packages there.
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06:19<boodie>Hi everybody, has anyone succeded in upgrading from buster?
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06:21<jelly>boodie, yes, a couple months ago
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06:22<raven523>I did earlier today, but I didn't test that everything worked yet
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06:22<jochum>crazyfrog: welcome back
06:22<boodie>Jelly: did you install 'testing'?
06:23<boodie>raven523, how long did it take?
06:23<crazyfrog>hello jochum
06:23<raven523>about an hour
06:23<raven523>but I was also watching videos while that was happening
06:23<marhas>I've been runnign bullseye for a couple of weeks now. I do not have to do anything now that it's stable? In terms of manual interventions
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06:25<jochum>marhas: you should switch sources from testing to bullseye
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06:29<marhas>It looks like this
06:29<marhas>Looks correct to me, right?
06:29<jochum>same for me
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07:02<claude>I am trying to find an example of how to use dh_dkms. If someone knows of a package that uses this I could try to follow that.
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07:04<EmleyMoor>dovecot appears to be trying to start too soon on a box I've just upgraded. How do I ensure all the network interface configuration is applied before it tries?
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07:06<boodie>To those who have upgraded; have you followed every single step of and did you experience any issues?
07:07<boodie>Apologies but I'm always anxious when it comes to upgrading a distro
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07:12<tarzeau>claude: what are you trying to package?
07:14<marhas>boodie: Buster is supported for atleast a year so no rush :D
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07:18<marhas>When is the next version of firefox-esr coming?
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07:19<tarzeau>marhas: being in experimental, matter of days or weeks
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07:25<mechanic>marhas will still take awhile, as debian most often only replaces firefox-esr when the old esr is not supported anymore
07:28<alex11>boodie, not every single step, no, but i know what to look for and how the upgrade process generally works; and i upgraded without real issue
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07:31<marhas>mechanic: I see. That makes sense
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07:33<alex11>basically there's a core set of instructions (back up files, change sources.list, apt update, apt upgrade, reboot, apt full-upgrade) and from there you can skim the release notes, mostly involving chapters 4 and 5
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07:34<alex11>many things in chapter 5 ("things to watch out for") won't apply to you but it's good to skim
07:34<vv221>And it’s actually really quick to skim through ;) The table of contents seems massive because it is very detailed, but this is actually a quick read.
07:35<alex11>(oh and reboot after apt full-upgrade also)
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07:40<alex11>it was kind of funny when it was half-finished after the initial apt upgrade and i booted into my desktop and had tons of 'FAILED unit' and lightdm wouldn't start etc etc
07:40<alex11>and then full-upgrade finishes it off and things work properly again
07:40<alex11>you may as well also do an apt autoremove at the end of the process too
07:42<RedEagle>i just smoothly upgraded to bullseye . one package tranmission-remote-cli (ncurses client) is not in which cli client is available in repo for transmission-daemon..?
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07:43<boodie>another question that bogs me quite a lot: I would like to have (probably purchase) a cloud backup for my linux box, what is the best approach, you reckon?
07:43<vv221>RedEagle, I switched to something from outside the repos:
07:43<vv221>It’s mostly a Python 3 port of the previous ncurses client.
07:43<RedEagle>oh.. yeah.
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07:43<vv221>It might be worth a RFP ;)
07:44<RedEagle>yeahhh 😀
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07:44<RedEagle>i think bullsye removed many obsolete packages from buster..
07:44<vv221>(now I need to remember how to initiate a RFP…)
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07:45<vv221>The Python 2 deprecation probably helped removing more obsolete packages than usual.
07:45<RedEagle>yeah. really its not very good that tons of pyton2 code has gone to dustbin..
07:46<raven523>if the developers didn't bother to port it to python 3 then they probably weren't maintaining it anymore
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07:46<vv221>It’s a bit tricky, keeping these packages would have delayed Python 2 drop itself, keeping in mind that it is no longer maintained by upstream (not even on the security front).
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07:47<vv221>raven523, maybe in most cases, but not all ;) I’ve seen several maintained projects that could not do the Python 3 port in time.
07:47<vv221>Often these are big projects maintained by small teams.
07:47<raven523>they have had 10 years
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07:48<vv221>That does not really help. In ten years they might have had other more important tasks.
07:48<raven523>keeping the software working on modern systems isn't important?
07:48<vv221>I see you never worked in maintaining software…
07:49<vv221>This is far from being that easy.
07:49<vv221>Especially for understaffed open-source projects.
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07:57<boodie>Hi, pidgin keeps popping up, how do I remove it from automatically loading at start? Many thanks
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08:01<alex11>i had the same issue with pidgin
08:02<alex11>don't know what causes it (had it in buster, i mean; subsequently uninstalled)
08:03<boodie>of course uninstallin is an option
08:03<raven523>maybe it's xdg-autostart
08:05<boodie>uninstalled; it was annoying
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08:06<raven523>was there anything in ~/.config/autostart?
08:06<alex11>i give up on pidgin for now in general, it's not developed enough to be useful and is lacking in xmpp features
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08:12<Nei>try gajim
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08:18<alex11>i do use gajim
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08:23<alex11>this is not to say there aren't other protocols other than xmpp and so therefore pidgin is useless, just that i don't feel it's currently in a very good spot and i don't use those other protocols anyway
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08:23<vv221>It looks like is not reachable right now, I get a systematic time-out.
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08:27<_0bitcount>Hi. I've found that, in the Live DVDs (Xfce, Lxqt) of Bullseye there are only Spanish and Italian versions of the Debian Reference, but not English ones. Is that by design?
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08:55<another>hey, when will bookworm dev begin?
08:56<bittin>later today or during next week
08:57<another>meaning packages from experimental can start migrating to testing?
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09:04<tarzeau>another: they required an upload to unstable
09:04<tarzeau>another: experimental never migrates
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09:06<another>Ah, I see. I guess uploads can be made soon?
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09:07<Guest4423>i just upgraded debian to bullseye and it installed libffi7 which firefox-esr is dependent on, but i can't remove libffi6 without apt also wanting to remove firefox-esr?
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09:08<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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09:09<vv221>firefox-esr/bullseye should install nicely without libffi6. libffi6 is actually not part of Bullseye.
09:09<Guest4423>yeah that's my understandig
09:10<vv221>If you share the output of `apt install -s firefox-esr/bullseye libffi6-` we might see what is causing the issue.
09:10<teisbd>Hello all. Did 'apt dist-upgrade' from 10 to 11, been stuck on 'Setting up shared-mime-info' forever, like 30 mins. Is that normal? Cannot change vt or anything...
09:11<vv221>teisbd, 30 minutes is unexpected, even on a very old computer.
09:11<teisbd>Safe to ctrl-c?
09:12<TobiX>Guest4423: If you have aptitude, try "aptitude why libffi6"
09:12<Guest4423>oh i know why now hah
09:12<vv221>teisbd, not 100% safe, but probably better than staying stuck.
09:12<Guest4423>firefox-esr in buster is newer than firefox-esr in bullseye
09:12<tepozoa>I just upgraded a basic cloud server and libff6 doesn't get into the autoremove
09:13<Guest4423>so firefox-esr doesn't get upgraded with bullseye upgrade
09:13<vv221>Oh, that’s a tricky one!
09:13<teisbd>vv221: thanks
09:13<Guest4423>so i'm still running firefox-esr from buster which is dependent on libffi6
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09:14<TobiX>Guest4423: There should be a newer version in bullseye-security?!?
09:15<TobiX>,v firefox-esr
09:15<judd>Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 78.11.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-proposed-updates: 78.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bookworm: 78.12.0esr-1; bullseye: 78.12.0esr-1; buster-security: 78.13.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye-proposed-updates:
09:15<judd>78.13.0esr-1~deb11u1; bullseye-security: 78.13.0esr-1~deb11u1; sid: 78.13.0esr-1; experimental: 91.0esr-1
09:15<vv221>The bullseye-security version is not visible yet on
09:15<vv221>So maybe it is still on its way.
09:16<TobiX>Guest4423: Did you fix the security repo in sources.list?
09:16<Guest4423>i saw a message about there isn't a release file for bullseye security
09:16<tepozoa>same here
09:16<Guest4423>so yeah i need to update my sources.list i think
09:16<tepozoa>I'm on Linode, possible their mirror isn't up to date yet
09:17<TobiX>vv221: But the package IS in the security-repository
09:17<TobiX>Maybe their mirror fell over the repository rename?
09:18<tepozoa>E: The repository ' bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file.
09:18<vv221>OK, maybe the pages have a bit of a delay when picking up security updates.
09:18<vv221>tepozoa, see the link TobiX shared a couple messages ago ;)
09:18<tepozoa>I'm still curious about why I have libffi6 still installed
09:18<tepozoa>this is a bare bones cloud server, and if I apt-get remove it, it'll come out just fine
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09:19<TobiX>It's NOT bullseye/updates anymore
09:19<Guest4423>the repo name has chnged haha
09:19<tepozoa>roger that boss
09:20<TobiX>See my link to the release notes, it's right there :D
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09:20<Guest4423>i just %s// my sources.list lol
09:20<TobiX>The Linode mirror is actually correct and up-to-date
09:21<Guest4423>this new naming is nicer anyways, i always get foo/updates and foo-updates confussed
09:21<TobiX>They use the offical mirror script, as can be seen in
09:22<tepozoa>so back to libffi6 - what technique can I use to understand why it's not being triggered as an autoremove package?
09:22<tepozoa>the policy and madison seem to be OK
09:22<TobiX>Yeah, it's absolutly more consistent, but I think it will trip up many people in the coming days :/
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09:23<TobiX>tepozoa: Maybe it was marked as manually installed sometimes?
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09:24<TobiX>tepozoa: Does "apt-mark showmanual | grep ffi" list the package?
09:24<tepozoa>yeah, it is - along with like 200 other packages. It must be the way Linode builds their images
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09:24<EmleyMoor>Just upgraded my comms box, and the phone has a dialtone... nothing serious amiss with it now, just a few "outside Debian" packages to restore and some starting up to check out.
09:24<alex11>yeah, foo\updates is honestly just confusing; foo-security is better
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09:26<TobiX>tepozoa: I normally use aptitude to mass-mark sections as "automatically installed" if I come across systems which such problems. For example, you can "sudo aptitude markauto ~i~slibs" to mark all libraries as automatically installed
09:26<xormor>this shows that bullseye-security has an InRelease file: bullseye-security InRelease [44,1 kB]
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09:26<xormor> bullseye/security did not show InRelease
09:27<TobiX>xormor: That is correct, doesn't have the security suite in the root
09:27<tepozoa>yeah so I ended up with a handful of packages like this (installed from buster, not in bullseye) on this Linode image:
09:27<vv221>TobiX, since we still have people getting issues with the `su -l` change with Buster, I think your "in the coming days" is a bit optimistic ;)
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09:28<TobiX>vv221: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:29<TobiX>I don't know who can change dpkg's factoids, but I think we need a factoid for the bullseye-security change :D
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09:30<grove>I don't remember the syntax, but I think almost everybody can make dpkg remember something
09:30<TobiX>The factoid "security" has the correct stanza
09:31<dpkg>Put "deb bullseye-security main contrib non-free" in your /etc/apt/sources.list file to keep up-to-date on security updates in <stable>. Run "apt update" and "apt upgrade" (or "apt full-upgrade" if the updates are kept back). Also ask me about <dsa>, <security backports>, <oldstable security>, <testing security>, <unstable security>, <browser security>.
09:31<dpkg>There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
09:31<TobiX>Somebody already wrote it
09:32<alex11>yeah this isn't going to get confusing at all :D
09:32<alex11>people not installing security updates for 6 months
09:33<TobiX>alex11: :'(
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09:35<TobiX>It's the classic "I'll just do 'sed -i s/buster/bullseye/ sources.list' and be done with it" update-style which will get people in this situation :/
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09:35<alex11>release notes exist for a reason
09:37<vv221>I would say that people skipping the release notes kind of deserve the security holes… But maybe I’m a bit cynic.
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09:39<tarzeau>TobiX: i'm that sort of guy, sed :)
09:39<tarzeau>but i'm aware that security url changed
09:40<alex11>it wouldn't have helped me anyway because i had to remove buster-backports
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09:41<alex11>though tbf i suppose you could use sed for that too
09:41<alex11>i have bullseye-backports in my sources
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09:49<FLD>i thought security updates come via rather than
09:49<themill>security.d.o just points to deb.d.o
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09:51<TobiX>themill: Oh, really? I see that both are hosted by fastly, but have different content?!?
09:53<themill>different URLs give different data
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10:05<jkc>Cache expiry, probably.
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10:18<tarzeau>i thought it'd be a good idea to do the ugprade, and i keep getting several "Failed to reload daemon: No buffer space available"
10:19<yang>Is prefered method to upgrade to bullseye from buster, to sync all latest packages for buster first, and then initiate and sync the upgrade to bullseye
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10:19<tarzeau>i'm doing the minimal then full as written at
10:19<themill>yes, always best to have a fully upgraded buster first
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10:23<yang>usually I wait for a week or two, that the "errors" get fixed and then usually the upgrade is smoother
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10:24<tarzeau>i keep getting that line of error msg seems in an endless loop, no reaction to ctrl-c so far
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10:25<tarzeau>ok ctrl-z worked, retrying it tells me can't find ldconfig. great
10:25<themill>yang: nothing is likely to change in the next week or two
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10:27<tarzeau>ok apt failed badly. apt-get to the rescue. stupid me, telling in here last stable release i was still using apt-get, been told, that's wrong apt is the way. should have sticked to what has worked 20 years
10:30<themill>umm... there's no difference?
10:30<tarzeau>well apt said it can't find ldconfig and aborted, like 2-5 lines of yellow and red text
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10:31<Nei>was that on apt upgrade or apt full-upgrade?
10:31<tarzeau>that is quite a difference.. that was apt upgrade --without-new-pkgs
10:31<themill>I don't think the colours are the issue
10:32<tarzeau>the original error message encountered somehintg with /etc/rc* looking it up on google, lead to systemd
10:32<crawler>tarzeau is the upgrade session recorded?
10:32<tarzeau>crawler: nope
10:32<crawler>can you paste the error messages?
10:33<tarzeau>maybe it should be autorecorded, auto scripted by zeroconfig...
10:33<tarzeau>it's in a screen, can't scroll back
10:33<crawler>no it is not auto recorded
10:33<themill>why would it be autorecorded when the release notes quite cleverly tell you to use script...
10:33<crawler>you can scroll back in screen using CTRL+A then press ESC, using pageup and pagedown keys
10:34<Nei>--but only a certain amount of history
10:34<Guest4423>isn't that what /var/log/apt/term.log is for?
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10:34<TobiX>Well, there is /var/log/apt/term.log, but I don't know how complete it is
10:35<tarzeau>it started with 10fd9f051accb6fd1f753f2d48371890 /etc/rc.local.dpkg-old
10:35<tarzeau>TobiX: thanks, that exists, and it has everything
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10:38<fangfufu>I am on Debian Bullseye. I am on KDE. Is there a way to change mouse scroll speed?
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10:39<fangfufu>I read this:, but is there a proper workaround, other than install imwheel?
10:39<ens>i'm trying to install debian 11 on my HP zbook 15 G3, i boot into the bullseye dvd iso that i put onto usb... the installer gets to 'Detect network hardware' and lists a bunch of necessary firmware files it wants to load. When i select 'Load missing firmware from removeable media?'==Yes and then hit continue it just brings me back to the same menu
10:40<ens>i have the feeling that perhaps those files might not be on the iso image.
10:40<ens>but i am not sure how to check or confirm.
10:40<crawler>does your network hardware require non-free firmware files?
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10:41<ens>yeah that's what it says
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10:42<crawler>non-free firmware files are not included in the standard iso images, you have to download an iso image that includes them from here
10:43<crawler>however if you know the exact required files, place them in a USB stick, then mount it, then proceed with installation
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10:43<ens>thanks crawler
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10:58<EmleyMoor>Third box upgrading - 1736 packages to deal with on that one
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11:02<amacater>ens: If you have wired Ethernet available to you, you may find that it "just works" if the machine has an Ethernet adapter.
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11:02<amacater>Quite a lot of chipsets complain about wanting Realtek firmware but work nonetheless
11:04<ens>in fact it does have an ethernet adapter. however i am in a strange place that doesn't have the necessary cable to be found anywhere.
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11:14<Guest4423>font rendering in X appears to have changed between buster and bullseye, is this to do with pango or some other package?
11:14<Guest4423>font rendering in X appears to have changed between buster and bullseye, is this to do with pango or some other package?
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11:38<nulleip>hey, anyone knows when virtualbox will get a proper package to bullseye?
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11:41<bentham>Happy Day After Release Day, everyone
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11:42<bentham>I want to delete all of my 'buster' lines from /etc/apt/sources.list
11:42<bittin_>bentham: thx
11:42<bentham>...but I am not sure whether I still have buster packages that don't have bullseye equivalents.
11:42<bentham>What is the best way to hunt those down and uninstall them?
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11:44<sussudio>sources.list isn't exactly rocket science
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11:45<bentham>sussudio: To be clear, I don't mean figuring out how to remove the buster lines from /etc/apt/sources.list
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11:45<bentham>I mean: What if I still have orphaned buster packages?
11:46<garbled>Hi, I just did an upgrade of an LXC on proxmox 6.4 to bullseye, and the kernel on my proxmox host is complaining with an apparmor issue
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11:46<garbled>audit: type=1400 audit(1629041845.799:279): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mount" info="failed flags match" error=-13 profile="lxc-119_</var/lib/lxc>" name="/run/systemd/unit-root/proc/" pid=194419 comm="(d-logind)" fstype="proc" srcname="proc" flags="rw, nosuid, nodev, noexec"
11:46<bentham>I don't want those taking up space (and rotting, introducing security vulnerabilities)
11:47<bentham>I want to make sure that I don't have any. I've been thinking dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}' | tail +6 | xargs -n1 apt-cache policy
11:47<crawler>bentham upgrading instructions has something similar to what you need, also using apt dry-run is good start too
11:47<sussudio>if you replace buster with bullseye in sources.list and run apt update, any packages that are obsolete will be offered to be deleted.
11:48<themill>many obsolete packages won't go away on their own, but aptitude can show them all to you at once
11:49<bentham>themill: ah, I think that is the answer I'm looking for
11:49<bentham>crawler, sussudio: thanks
11:49<antoyo[m]>Hi. I'm having trouble installing Debian m68k in qemu. When it's time to select the mirror, I get an error and the logs show an error about GPG signature stuff. Am I supposed to manually import some GPG key?
11:50<bentham>themill: I really want to be safe knowing that nothing is depending upon buster to tell me when they are obsolete
11:50<bentham>before deleting my buster lines
11:51<bentham>themill: I think you mean the 'Obsolete and Locally Created Packages' category, right?
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11:51<themill>yes. They will only be obsolete once you've removed the buster entries and done an apt update
11:52<dpkg>If you remove a repository from your sources.list (e.g. removing <dmm>), then you should check what packages you have installed from the other repository. Synaptic and aptitude have a "Obsolete and Locally Created Packages" list. Or, "aptitude search '~o'". Note this doesn't include packages that exist in the repo at a different version to the one you have installed; see <not available> <list repositories>.
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11:54<bentham>Does not yet have bullseye?
11:54<bentham>I assumed I'd need to add that as well
11:55<dpkg>On Debian 11 "bullseye" systems, there are two repositories that you should have in your sources.list aside from your main mirror. You should have an entry for "bullseye-security" which is <security> updates (and also "bullseye-updates" which is for <stable-updates>. See also <sources.list>. Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
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11:57<bentham>themill: thanks! bullseye-security works for me;
11:57<bentham>I get an error with bullseye-updates, however
11:57<bentham>apparently does not have a Release file?
11:58<bentham>oh, never mind
11:59<bentham>I actually already have bullseye-updates, just from
11:59<bentham>thanks for your help; that was exactly what I needed :)
11:59<garbled>is there a way with apparmor to figure out which config file/line is causing the deny?
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12:03<joeDoe>after upgrade to bullseye, libreoffice won't start. i3wm, when I start with dmenu, nothing happens. When I start from a command line, there is no output. The cursor just goes to the next line after typing libreoffice and enter, but no further output. ps xu shows oosplash and soffice.bin have been started, but nothing is happening on screen
12:03<joeDoe>any ideas
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12:11<garbled>is any attempt to preserve the php confs from 7.3 when upgrading, or is that all something the user needs to do by hand?
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12:17<joeDoe>there doesn't appear to be anything about libreoffice not starting in the release notes for bullseye
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12:25<tepozoa>bentham: aptitude search "?installed?not(?narrow(?installed,?origin(^Debian$)?archive(^stable$)))"
12:26<tepozoa>be careful and ignore the perl* packages, leave those alone
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12:28<bremner>joeDoe: fwiw, i3 and bullseye here also, no problem starting libreoffice
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12:40<ens>managed to get bullseye on my lappy. during the install it detected windows (as vista rather than 10) installed as using some legacy bios compat mode. i confirmed to use that mode aswell for the install and then proceeded to do a grub install to the disk. after reboot i don't have the option to boot to the windows install.
12:40<ens>was wondering if there is any good procedure to get that back into grub
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12:41<ens>i'm sure it's just a misunderstanding.
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12:43<LouWestin>I'm getting a repository error. The repository ' bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file.
12:44<LouWestin>failed to download some files
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12:44<bentham>tepozoa: thanks for that
12:45<LouWestin>tarzeau: Thanks!
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12:46<tepozoa>bentham: yw! be careful with the proposed list, I'm looking at one server that has apache2 in the output going "but that's installed from the repo" and scratching my head
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12:47<bentham>Yea, I really do wish that Debian made it easier to manage packages based on their provenance
12:48<boodie>Hi, I'm about to upgrade, changed the sources.list file but when I did 'apt update', I got the error 'E: The repository ' bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file" ... can I continue regardless?
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12:48<tepozoa>(I'm open to any ideas btw - apt-mark shows it retained it's manual install mark, madison and show indicate "yes, this is the bullseye version from stable" .... )
12:48<dpkg>On Debian 11 "bullseye" systems, there are two repositories that you should have in your sources.list aside from your main mirror. You should have an entry for "bullseye-security" which is <security> updates (and also "bullseye-updates" which is for <stable-updates>. See also <sources.list>. Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
12:48<boodie>I read that the repository debian-security for bullseye might not be available for a bit
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12:49<garbled>I got the same error, but the upgrade seemed to work fine
12:49<vv221>ens, double-check thas os-prober is installed —
12:49<garbled>I'm guessing no security patches exist yet?
12:49<boodie>so, what is the correct 'sources.list' file?
12:49<vv221>garbled, you’re guessing wrong, at least Firefox is already patched ;)
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12:49<johnny0>boodie: bullseye-security
12:50<LouWestin>tarzeau: changing the two lines deb bullseye-security main contrib
12:50<LouWestin>fixed the issue
12:50<johnny0>boodie: not bullseye/updates
12:50<LouWestin>thanks again!
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12:50<tarzeau>am i the only one to get a ton of "Failed to reload daemon: Connection timed out" during upgrade?
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12:52<Gerowen>tarzeau: Mine went without a hitch except it uninstalled mariadb-server and upgraded php, so I had to put that back and add some customizations back to the new version of php.
12:52<garbled>oh... I have a line that points to just debian with bullseye-security and that one doesn't have the Release file
12:53<garbled>yeah.. I'm worried about my php hacks.. going to have to preserve those off on my actual servers
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12:53<garbled>Err:7 bullseye-security Release
12:54<bentham>garbled: try rather than
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12:54<boodie>Can you check if my 'sources.list' is correct?
12:54<johnny0>boodie: look at my message above
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12:55<garbled>right.. I have both... ISTR that that used to work with buster previously though
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12:56<tarzeau>Gerowen: mine is still running (due to the many slowing down msgs), but then i've about 2000 packages installed
12:56<Gerowen>garbled: Mine was pretty straight forward, but my Nextcloud cron jobs were refusing to execute, even if I tried to manually run it. I had forgotten that there's separate .ini files, one for apache2, one for cli, so I just had to add my apc.enable_cli=1 to the /etc/php/7.4/cli/php.ini . Plus had to bump up the memory limit in the one for apache2 because it reverted to default.
12:56<bentham>garbled: I think that the conventions have changed a bit. I believe that now, we get 'bullseye' and 'bullseye-updates' from, and we get 'bullseye-security' from
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12:56<garbled>oh, is there a bullseye-updates one too now?
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12:57<ens>vv221: os-prober was installed when i checked. When run it outputs: /dev/sda1:Windows 10:Windows:chain
12:57<garbled>Gerowen: yeah, that was kinda my thinking.. I have a bunch of php stuff running, like nextcloud, going to have to find my hacks to the ini files again and fix them up
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12:59<garbled>craig: aha, thx, didn't know about that one.. updated my code to account for that.. works now.
12:59<bentham>garbled: 'bullseye/updates' with a slash
12:59<bentham>Maybe this is redundant; I'm not sure!)
12:59<garbled>is it? mine worked with bullseye-updates
12:59<garbled>Get:6 bullseye-updates InRelease [36.8 kB]
13:00<bentham>garbled: oh, I'm sorry, yes, it is a hyphen and not a slash. you're right
13:00<bentham>With buster, there was 'buster/updates' from
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13:00<bentham>but that was then; this is now!
13:00<garbled>best part is my apt-cache just kept working through all this, and I was able to update through my cache. yay.
13:01<garbled>which is huge for me, because then I don't have to download the same patch 30 times. :)
13:01<bentham>agreed, that sounds painful
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13:03<garbled>still can't figure out my apparmor problem tho.. can't seem to figure out what rule is causing it
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13:05<ens>vv221: thanks for the help. I ran update-grub and that seems to have done the trick.
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13:09<joeDoe>bremner: ack
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13:11<vv221>ens, glad you got it working in the end ;)
13:11<boodie>E: Malformed entry 2 in list file /etc/apt/sources.list (Component)
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13:13<ens>boodie: you might be missing some stuff at the end like 'main contrib non-free'
13:13<ens>on end of line 2
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13:15<Gerowen>The release notes said that "buster/updates" should be replaced with "bullseye-security" in sources.list
13:15<Gerowen>I know it's been a few minutes, just saw those messages and figured I'd toss that out there. It's what I did and all my machines worked fine with it.
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13:17<boodie> ... still got the error message "E: The repository ' main Release' does not have a Release file.
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13:19<sney>isn't bullseye-security just on now?
13:20<sney>hm, there is a Release file though.
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13:21<sney>boodie: aha, you removed 'bullseye-security', it still needs to be there in between the url and main ..
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13:22<ens>just found out how to install gnome-tweak-tool to switch my theme to adwaita-dark and i'm like "hooray i can see again."
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13:24<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb bullseye main" "deb bullseye-security main" "deb bullseye-updates main". Note that it is <bullseye-security> and not <bullseye/updates>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and
13:24<boodie>sney: so, finally what should that line be?
13:24<jhutchins>boodie: Like that.
13:24<sney>boodie: the second one, in dpkg's message here ^
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13:26<boodie>Thank you, it works now!
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13:27<boodie>do you recommend 'apt upgrade --without-new-pkgs' ?
13:27<boodie>to start with?
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13:30<tarzeau>i did that... i'd like to see how it works for others
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13:30<tarzeau>^ boodie
13:30<boodie>OK, I'll try
13:31<allan_wind>Hi... got a weird tmux issue after upgrading to bullseye. I start 3 instances of tmux via i3 on login and they don't seem to read my tmux.conf files. I have close all instances of tmux (`tmux ls` is empty) before tmux will then read my config. Any ideas?
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13:36<bentham>sney: So, does this mean that we should remove references to altogether, and just download bullseye-security from
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13:38<Gerowen>Here's my working sources.list for bullseye. You can ignore the parts at the top that say "10.8", that's what version was originally installed on this particular machine.
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13:40<Unit193>/etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources isn't it more pretty? :3
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13:41<Gerowen>Yep, :-p I just did a find and replace on the stock sources.list for mine.
13:41<ansgar>Unit193: No. It misses "/debian-security" :P
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13:41<boodie>So far it told me that there are X-sessions that will be terminated and will have to be retarted manually
13:41<Unit193>ansgar: Good point. The other one had that, but that system seems to have missed. Thanks.
13:42<bentham>Hmm, so I think the summary is that we need bullseye, bullseye-updates, and bullseye-backports from, and debian-security and bullseye-security from
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13:43<preston>Hey everyone
13:45<allan_wind>After I upgraded to bullseye my machine hangs on "Readining initial ramdisk...". If I enter setup, quit the bios, it will boot. Any ideas?
13:45<bentham>correction: both / and /debian-security/ directories for bullseye-security on
13:45<bentham>so strange
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13:56<ydbi>you're all doing it wrong, this is the right sources.list
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13:58<bentham>ydbi: so why do we still have at all?
13:58<bentham>for historical reasons?
13:58<bentham>for backward compatibility
13:59<ydbi>for no reason really
14:00<ydbi>should be removed for bookworm or bookworm+1
14:00<ydbi>is that the name?
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14:01<alex11>yes, debian 13 trixie
14:01<scorpion2185[m]>yes, there is a command that shows all versions
14:01<scorpion2185[m]>when will be released?
14:02<tarzeau>you're welcome:
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14:02<scorpion2185[m]>I read it on the handbook
14:02<boodie>all done (apt full-upgrade), now I suppose I have to restart ...
14:02<scorpion2185[m]>is there a new handbook now?
14:02<alex11>no not yet
14:02<tarzeau>boodie: i skipped that part, but yes you should
14:03<alex11>who knows when the next one will be, debian 9 didn't get one
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14:05<scorpion2185[m]>`debian-distro-info -a`
14:05<sussudio>what do you need a handbook for... got a wobbly table or something?
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14:15<scorpion2185[m]>I was told that I need to read it to learn the basic. I am finding interesting bc I learn new things about my OS. And maybe I can work for Falcot
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14:18<somiaj>bentham: It will still be used for LTS of buster, so it will be around for that at least (which is another 3 years minimum)
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14:20<tepozoa>bentham: that regex above was too strict, it will trigger a false positive if the package is installed from stable-security (for me, that's apache2 and perl) - drop the $ anchor after stable on the right/end
14:20<tepozoa>aptitude search "?installed?not(?narrow(?installed,?origin(^Debian$)?archive(^stable)))"
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14:37<sarvad>who *
14:37<dpkg>Debian "Bookworm" is the current testing branch as of 2021-08-14 and it will be released "when it's ready".
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14:46<ens>still in the process of breaking in my new laptop, i've got bullseye and i have noticed that the laptop cpu fan seems to be always active. is there some software i can use to examine and alter the profiles for this?
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14:47<ens>i noticed there are a few different choices when i searched the web but i'm not sure what the standard utility would be
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14:48<tarzeau>ens: sensors and htop?
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14:49<tarzeau>ens: first is to check temperature sensor output, and htop to see if something went berserk, process wise, and the cpu load, would also work with uptime and free -m
14:49<ens>oh interesting, sensors output shows temp6 == +127 C
14:49<ens>for the ACPI interface
14:49<tarzeau>i've never seen such a high number, and does it feel that hot?
14:49<ens>nope, system is running at zero load pretty much
14:50<ens>i'll stick htop on and have a gander to make sure
14:50<garbled>sigh, my new PDU is DOA. :)
14:51<tepozoa>maybe there's a new sensor in the upgrade, try re-running sensors-detect and see if you get a new module to read the temps?
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15:01<tarzeau>are you guys using popularity-contest and contributing back?
15:04<ens>ok i rebooted the sys to make sure. the system load is basically zero. i re-ran sensors-detect and it added coretemp to the list of modules. i then ran /etc/init.d/kmod start and checked sensors and it's still got temp6 on ACPI set to +127 C.
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15:05<tarzeau>maybe a bug, i know some cf card readers report 200+ C, just ignore
15:05<garbled>is that maybe a max or alert?
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15:05<tarzeau>ens: which laptop exactly is that?
15:06<ens>HP zbook 15 G3
15:08<tarzeau>ens: tried hw-probe yet?
15:09<garbled>a few of my servers have temp sensors that show up, that are in reality the defined powerdown limits or alarm points
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15:14<tarzeau>which of earlyoom, nohang, systemd-oomd do people use? popcon says 331/31/29. fedora had earlyoom default, now systemd-oomd. personally i've only used nohang
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15:16<garbled>I think I use earlyoom on one of my PI's, because firefox keeps crashing
15:16<tarzeau>that arm64 bullseye already? or non-64 elder pi?
15:17<garbled>old pi3, still on buster
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15:17<garbled>it runs a monitor that just shows a grafana dashboard 24/7
15:18<garbled>sometimes firefox eats too much ram, crashes, etc.
15:18<tarzeau>it's called "leaks memory"
15:19<tarzeau>i've also observed that, especially when your computer runs 24/7 and you never close firefox
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15:19<tarzeau>but i've seen that with google-chrome and chromium as well. just not with microsoft-edge nor safari
15:19<garbled>so I have earlyoom, and a few other hackjobs that run and kill it down if it breaks so it restarts
15:19<ens>tarzeau, garbled: i added the sensor to ignore in /etc/sensors.d/zbook.conf and rebooted and this seems to be ok now.
15:20<tarzeau>ens: can i see a copy of your /etc/sensors.d/zbook.conf ? (i should also ignore some sensors :) toolazytolookupdocs
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15:21<ens>it's on my other box (not with this irc) but essentially.. it looks like the ignores that appear on this thread.
15:21<ens>the "chip" name is taken from the same as the sensors name, in my case it was acpitz-acpi-0
15:22<ens>so just had the chip name, next line 'ignore temp6' and those two lines did the trick
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15:26<garbled>aww darn.. no 32-bit PPC release. :)
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15:27<bremner>well, no. Old arches tend not to come back once they leave
15:28<bremner>still in debian-ports, iirc
15:28<garbled>no maintainer, or just, never coming back?
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15:28<EmleyMoor>Upgrading my router now
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15:29<bremner>garbled: I imagine it was a combination of factors, including availability of hardware, and interest of porters
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15:29<bremner>garbled: if you're interested in helping, I suggest talking to the debian-ports folds
15:29<garbled>hrmm.. maybe one day if I'm feeling like it, I'll try.
15:30<garbled>I was the portmaster for NetBSD/PReP and /rs6000, so I still have piles of hardware here and a mild curiosity in trying...
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15:31<EmleyMoor>Will have to make sure the upgrade of my main machine is cat-proof, though
15:32<garbled>I'm holding off on upgrading the rest of my stack until I figure out this apparmor/lxc/proxmox issue..
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15:35<ens>i just found out i have to recompile gnome-terminal and patch it to enable the transparency option.
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15:35<tarzeau>or just use a real terminal, like cool-retro-term
15:35<ens>haha, i was using that for a MUD earlier, it was lovely.
15:39<ens>yeah apparently it is something that ubuntu and others have via a patch to enable the transparency option but debian removed it due to performance issues? (sounds dubious). however i've been linked to the patches and stuff so i guess i'll give it a lash.
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15:40<tarzeau>ens: just found this via d/changelog
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15:44<grtestuser_>install-mbr:/dev/sda: Failed to find MBR signature.
15:46<EmleyMoor>Looks like I'm up but needed a manual ppp start. Obviously that's not quite as desired...
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15:50<EmleyMoor>Should /etc/network/interfaces stanzas like this still work:
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16:03<crazyfrog>hey, should i use for the 2nd unprivileged lxc container an other user for security reasons?
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16:10<dondelelcaro>pabs: thanks for fixing that. I should have checked myself
16:10<spawacz>Why am I getting ufw logs from 10.* ?
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16:10<spawacz>It's a private subnet
16:10<spawacz>and i dont have such subnet here
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16:11<sney>ISPs tend to use the formerly Class A range for internal stuff and semi-public ranges like cellular
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16:11<spawacz>Aug 15 19:34:01 spoofed kernel: [1820751.185086] [UFW BLOCK] IN=ens3 OUT= MAC=spoofed SRC= DST=spoofed LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=39 ID=24082 PROTO=TCP SPT=58468 DPT=80 WINDOW=1024 RES=0x00 ACK URGP=0
16:12<spawacz>I have spoofed the ips and server name
16:12<spawacz>hmm so it's my hosting provider?
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16:17<dudes>can anyone help me troubleshoot the issue I am having with my headset microphone? it just won't work
16:18<dudes>I have tried talking over the mic on my phone and it works fine, but on my laptop only sound from the headset seems to be working (input audio is handled by my laptop default microphone, not my headset microphone). I currently have alsa and pulse installed
16:20<sney>dudes: what kind of microphone is it?
16:20<sney>or rather, how is it connected?
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16:22<mirage>Have you checked if your microphone is muted?
16:23<mentor>dudes: How does your headset connect to your phone and computer?
16:24<dudes>nothing special, just a regular headset. two jacks and they gave a connector i use to merge them into one which i simply plug in
16:24<mentor>dudes: Your computer is unlikely to have a combined headphone and microphone port
16:24<dudes>the audio plays fine but i cant talk over my mic on my headset, rather the laptop mic handles that
16:25<dudes>its just simple cable and plug in
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16:25<dudes>the mic shown to be working on my phone which i confirmed
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16:26<sney>your computer most likely has a separate microphone jack, so you will need to remove your combo jack dongle and connect the plugs separately
16:27<dudes>thats the issue i only have one way in
16:27<mentor>dudes: Only one audio port?
16:27<dudes>yeah its a laptop
16:28<dudes>im weirded out tho the mic should be working or?
16:28<jmcnaught>My laptop has a single 3.5mm headset jack
16:29<jmcnaught>dudes: have you tried pavucontrol? It might let you select microphone source.
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16:29<dudes>i installed it earlier, it only shown "Microphone" as an option, nothing else was in the drop down
16:30<jmcnaught>dudes: that was on pavucontrol's Input Devices tab?
16:31<dudes>is there anything i can do to debug it
16:31<jmcnaught>Does the headset work on this computer with a different version of Debian, or a different OS? Which release of Debian?
16:34<amacater>dudes: If you only have one audio jack: is it marked for both mic and speaker/headset. Some laptops combine both.
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16:35<amacater>If you have a headset with two jacks - how many rings on each. Did they give you a Y connector with one jack for headset
16:35<dudes>one is for the headphones and one is for microphone
16:35<mentor>dudes: What make/model of laptop is this? Have you tried plugging in only the microphone jack into the computer?
16:35<dudes>but i have a connector which works and i tried it on my phone, the external mic was picked up
16:35<amacater>one jack for microphone and an output jack with ? four rings
16:36<dudes>What make/model of laptop is this? - oh very oldie, i am literally running debian minimal+i3
16:37<dudes>one jack for microphone and an output jack with ? four rings - what do you mean ?
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16:37<mentor>dudes: I was looking for enough information to check the laptop specification.
16:37<dudes>in that case
16:38<dudes>easynote te69kb
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16:40<joeDoe>I upgraded to bullseye this morning and libreoffice won't start anymore. Nothing happens either using dmenu in i3wm or launching from cli. ps shows that oosplash and soffice.bin running, but no window appears. The only thing I see in dmesg since trying to start libreoffice is 'audit: type=1400 audit(1629048002.689:34): apparmor="ALLOWED" operation="signal" profile="libreoffice-oopslash"
16:40<joeDoe>pid=2139 comm="oosplash" requested_mask="send" denied_mask="send" signal=kill peer="libreoffice-soffice"', but that looks innocent enough. What else should I try to debug this?
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16:42<mentor>dudes: I've found a random document on the internet that claims it is a combined headphone out, microphone in
16:42<amacater>Right - the laptop has one jack - combined mic/headset (or speaker). That is probably expecting a plug with a tip and three rings. Essentially, that's enough contacts for both devices - if you plug in another plug, you may get mono mic / stereo headset
16:43<dudes>i see
16:43<amacater>So - your adapter - is it 2.5mil, three rings, one tip
16:43<dudes>let me check
16:43<amacater>Google for the model and I found what the side looks like.
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16:45<ens>tarzeau: after playing package -dev version roulette and patching gnome-terminal source and getting all that jazz working (took a fair while). no transparency option... but i did get the suggestion to use tilix instead and i instantly love it.
16:45<amacater>I have a combined headset / mic here and the plug looks like that. If so, then at the top of your adapter, you should have one socket for headphone, one for mic - and it's likely that those connectors are single tip and ring.
16:45<spawacz>I'm also having issues with mic atm. Never used mic on linux before btw. So I run pavucontrol, the mic is detected properly as rear pink slot
16:46<spawacz>but the sound is permanently 0 (it is jumping 1 or 2 pixles when i raise it to 150%)
16:46<spawacz>it's not muted, I've got a button on it
16:46<dudes>amacater: correct thats how it works
16:47<dudes>and i did plug in everything how it should be, only my microphone doesnt seem to be working on my laptop
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16:47<dudes>on phone i tried recording with the voice recorder app and says external mic is being used, and it does seem to be functional
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16:49<dudes>you think theres anything i have to change so my system uses my external mic?
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16:51<mentor>dudes: Are there any other hardware profiles available in pulseaudio?
16:51<dudes>not sure tbh, how do i make sure?
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16:52<dudes>pactl load-module module-loopback - i ran this and still seems to be my default laptop mic
16:55<mentor>dudes: Try pavucontrol
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16:58<dudes>what do I do in it?
16:58-!-mith_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58<mentor>dudes: There is a configuration tab
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17:00<dudes>i opened it right now
17:00<dudes>built in audio is off
17:00<dudes>and other profile
17:00<dudes>same name built in audio
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17:01<dudes>is set to analog stereo duplex
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17:01<mentor>dudes: So, the one that's off…
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17:02<dudes>has three options in dropdown
17:02<dudes>all say (unplugged)
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17:02<garbled>sigh, i hate firefox and javascript, now one of my devices wont talk to me over http anymore
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17:10<garbled>is there any way to install an older version of firefox, or similar?
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17:11<dvs>Now that's a switch
17:11<garbled>I want something more ancient-y
17:11<bremner>use RHEL?
17:12<bremner>(not serious)
17:12<garbled>ick, please no
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17:13<bremner>generally old browsers are considered a bad idea, because security
17:13<garbled>right, I get that.. but I specifically want an old one because the new one breaks access to my PDU's
17:13<bremner>maybe one of the text browsers work?
17:14<garbled>ideally if I could have it installed as a separate install, then it doesn't cause all the phizz with security on general browsing..
17:15<garbled>no, way too much of a gui for that to be useable
17:15<EdePopede>garbled: firefox is something you just can get from mozilla and throw into /usr/local or somewhere. also there's the repo of all available debian packages somewhere...
17:16<dpkg> is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free.
17:16<garbled>hrmm.. maybe I can hunt an old iceweasle or something
17:16<EdePopede>i think i had a 30 something running on now oldoldstable last year
17:17<garbled>I think it was working as recently as 50ish
17:17<garbled>maybe even 68
17:18<jelly>garbled, you can grab old firefox-esr or old iceweasel; do you have https issues or need flash, or java applet or what precisely?
17:18<garbled>so I have an Avocent PDU, the login page won't render anymore.. javascript console says something about doc.load not being a function
17:19*jelly keeps 32bit firefox 45esr for java applet purposes
17:19<garbled>I'm guessing there was some kind of compatibility js in an older version of js, that firefox whacked
17:19<garbled>hrmm.. thats what I need
17:19<jelly>js is not java.
17:20<garbled>yeah but 45 would do the trick, how do you keep it from mucking with your exsiting profile?
17:21<ansgar>Install the old browser in a VM.
17:21<jelly>/opt/firefox45/firefox -ProfileManager or something, haven't run it in a while
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17:21<garbled>hrmm.. guess I have to do that.. sigh
17:22<jelly>yes, VM isolation would be safer
17:23<garbled>oh yeah.. profilemanager would probably work
17:24<garbled>I don't need it to be safe, it just needs to connect to internal stuff
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17:26<jelly>safe: from ruining your regular firefox config
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17:27<jelly> -- I did in fact remember that right
17:27<garbled>true.. profilemanager worked perfectly though, and I can login again
17:27<EdePopede> gives me a 308 :)
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17:28<garbled>yep, and that 45esr works perfectly, thank you!
17:29<jelly>I also have a VM with IE6, and another with IE11 for similar reasons
17:29<amacater>As daft as it sounds, you might want to try something like elinks
17:29<EdePopede>redefining HOME for the browser also works perfectly
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17:30<garbled>I dunno if elinks would be... tolarable.. with this webui
17:30<EdePopede>*nod* could open a NYT article earlier today with links2, while in firefox they wanted to sell me the page
17:30<jelly>some old servers have out-of-band management that's less painful to use with ActiveX than with java
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17:31<garbled>I mean yeah, I could read the info, but trying to click my way down the PDU stack to an outlet might make me insane
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17:31<Guest4423>jelly… sounds like ILO4 or earlier lol
17:31<ansgar>jelly: I ould hope such servers were decomissioned as they are probably not very energy efficient.
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17:32<jelly>Guest4423, iLO4 2.70 or later has a HTML5 console
17:33<jelly>think iLO2-age
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17:35<jelly>ansgar, licensing required to migrate apps to better platform trumps cost of power by 2-4 orders of magnitude
17:36<garbled>AHA.. someone on the proxmox forums solved my problem with bullseye as an LXC. you need to set nesting=1
17:37<garbled>yay.. my machine isn't spewing apparmor errors every 3 seconds anymore
17:37<felco>hello guys, just saw bullseye is due for this weekend, and I wondering how to upgrade from buster? there is a general howto somewhere?
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17:38<garbled>interesting.. my bullseye LXC, consumes slightly more CPU doing nothing, than it did when running buster..
17:38<bremner>felco: there are detailed release notes on
17:39<bremner>felco: and yes, it released
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17:40<garbled>my upgrade was fairly painless, but I haven't tried my desktop yet....
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17:42<TobiX>garbled: My horrible plan to run old webuis which need Java using wasn't that well received by my colleagues...
17:42<garbled>if only freenas ran debian.. but I guess truenas-scale does, or at least sorta does...
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17:43<garbled>that wouldn't work on internal urls.. would it?
17:43<TobiX>garbled: It's Free Software, so you can host your own sandboxed copy:
17:44<TobiX>Since it needs a websocket proxy to get around same-origin policy you could even restrict it to only the legacy webuis that need it
17:44<garbled>thats... actually tempting
17:44<mulin>Hello everybody. I'm new to IRC!
17:44<mulin>The DVD-1 image is coming with contrib enabled on the cd-rom, security and update lines. This is normal?
17:44<mulin>The netinstall image is just with main. y
17:45<TobiX>garbled: It's basically an x86 VM runinng in a modern web browser... Eats CPUs for breakfast
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17:46<garbled>true, but, then my links could work...
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17:47<ydbi>garbled: that's how it always works - the more recent the software, the more resources it consumes doing nothing
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17:47<ydbi>if you can get old software run on new hardware, it is infinitely more performant than any modern software
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17:48<koollman_>it depends. Some old software is really badly written too :)
17:48<garbled>yeah.. thats... the problem with everything
17:48<ydbi>that's why some people are paid $$$$$ to make MSDOS run on core i7
17:48<ydbi>because it's faster than anything else
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17:49<garbled>In the ancient days, the cpus were slow, and everyone was optimizing code. then cpu speeds started growing like crazy, and everyone said "optimizing is stupid, let the cpu deal with it, write more oop", now cpu's are once again not growing in speed as fast.. I'm hoping optimization comes back into style.
17:50<ydbi>it won't
17:50<ydbi>that would require skills that are not being taught anymore, and few people actually want to spend the time studying
17:50<somiaj>A lot depends on what is being writen, there is still some fairly optimized code out there, but it isn't as common, since more people prefer features.
17:50<garbled>yes.. sigh.. people look at me like I'm crazy now when I say I do C, without any additional suffixes
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17:51<somiaj>Compilers are quite good at optimizing stuff too compared to the old days, but yea I agree, optimized code is just nice
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17:53<garbled>I still remember when I learned how AIX did optimized code per-CPU, and how in awe I was of such an elegant and amazing system
17:54<dvs>you are talking about AIX, right?
17:54*dvs slinks away
17:54<garbled>yeah.. its.. odd, but a few things they did were.. amazing
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17:56<ens>think i found out what is going on with my fans, they arn't detected in sensors so i guess it's just defaulting to whatever the hardware runs them at
17:56<ens>trying to see how to detect these fans
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17:57<ens>i already ran sensors-detect and said 'yes' to all
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18:01<somiaj>ens: is this newer hardware, I find my newer mobo doesn't have nearly has many sensors being detected as previous ones, unsure if they are less common or just need kernel updates for the newer hardware
18:01<jasonre>Hi, I have an existing dmcrypt partition on which an LVM PV lives, split into 3 LVs. When installing using netinst iso I want to retain the dmcrypt volume and the LVM VG on it. Installer seems to want to re-initialize the dmcrypt. How to retain existing dmcrypt?
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18:03<jasonre>I actually installed by manually running cryptsetup luksOpen in vt 1 then manually setting things up, but now initramfs doesn't do cryptsetup.
18:03<ens>it's a HP ZBook 15 G3. From 2015. I don't think it's a particularly obscure box but this is the first time running linux on it
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18:40<wswartz>Greetings. On Bullseye, I am trying to get rid of firefox-esr. But APT wants to replace it with chromium. So it needs a browser. Is there an orthodox way to have that browser be the Brave snap instead?
18:40<felco>sweet, just upgraded =] thanks
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18:41<sney>wswartz: it's probably a dependency of some metapackage (e.g. cinnamon-desktop-environment) that can also be safely removed in most cases. but there's also equivs,
18:41<graytron>after I upgraded from buster to bullseye, pulseaudio is automatically spawned although autospawn is disabled in /etc/pulse/client.conf
18:41<dpkg>equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
18:42<graytron>how do i stop pulseaudio from autospawning?
18:42<wswartz>sney: Oooooooh. Cool! Thanks.
18:42<sney>wswartz: np.
18:43<sussudio>graytron: uninstall it?
18:43<graytron>sussudio: i need it
18:43<sussudio>graytron: what for
18:43<graytron>for software that requires pulseaudio
18:44<sney>graytron: pulseaudio went from version 12.2 to 14.2 on this upgrade, so maybe the syntax for pulse/client.conf is different?
18:44<sussudio>you want to stop it from autospawning, but you want to use it.
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18:45<graytron>i think some games may actually require pulseaudio instead of alsa
18:45<sney>in fact, pulse-client.conf(5) has some information about the autospawn option right above the fold.
18:45<sussudio>doesn't pulseaudio use alsa
18:45<graytron>sney: thanks! i'll look into it
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18:46<sney>alsa is the linux kernel audio drivers. everything that makes sound on a modern linux system "uses alsa".
18:46<sney>but a lot of stuff prefers some abstraction rather than talking to e.g. /dev/dsp directly.
18:49<ens>i booted into another distro to check to see if it deals with the fan throttling properly and it does, even though i checked the sensors command output and it still doesn't show any fans detected...
18:50<hendursaga>sney: ah! I always wanted to know how to get rid of Firefox ESR..
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18:58<graytron>sney: thanks. needed to "mask" those pulseaudio systemd services, and it worked
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18:58<sney>hendursaga, wswartz - just to check, are you both using cinnamon?
18:58<wswartz>GNOME 3
18:59<sney>wswartz: what's the output of 'apt rdepends --installed firefox-esr'?
19:00<sney>nvm, it's going to be gnome-core. bah, that should be a recommend
19:01<wswartz>I'm thinking that this equivs stub package is also going to need to map gnome-www-browser to Brave. Through update-alternatives, it seems.
19:02<sney>equivs is just about telling apt the package is installed and the dependency is satisfied.
19:02<sney>alternatives can be handled separately, even manually
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19:08<hendursaga>sney: I use KDE
19:09<sney>hendursaga: weird, I just tested 'apt remove firefox-esr' on my bullseye laptop and it was ready to remove it, no fuss, without installing anything else
19:09<wswartz>Hrm. Brave has a package for Debian. Perhaps that's the best route.
19:10<wswartz>Do you also have chromium installed?
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19:19<wswartz>What's providing gnome-www-browser?
19:20<sney>nothing, because like hendursaga I'm using kde so it doesn't need that
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19:21<wswartz>Okay, what about x-www-browser?
19:21<hendursaga>sney: oh, this laptop I'm "still" using Buster
19:22<sney>x-www-browser is an alternative that doesn't need to be populated by anything, it has no bearing on what apt does
19:23<sney>for completion, /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser is currently linked to /usr/bin/firefox-esr, which I'm not actually going to remove as I use it on this machine and currently have some tabs open.
19:24<sney>but apt didn't need to replace it with anything else in this case, because it's only a recommend. I'm thinking of sending an email to the desktop team about this, as gnome and cinnamon are the only desktops that AFAIK fully depend on a packaged browser, everyone else just Rs them
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19:25<garbled>this is why I run awesome... :)
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19:26<wswartz>I installed Brave via first party .deb package, and APT still wants to install chromium in place of firefox-esr.
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19:28<sney>right, because gnome-core has this under Depends: firefox-esr (>= 78) | firefox (>= 78) | chromium | chromium-browser | epiphany-browser
19:28<wswartz>What if I created an equivs for firefox-esr?
19:28<sney>that's what you were supposed to do with equivs.
19:29<sney>I guess you could also install epiphany-browser and just never use it
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19:30<wswartz>If it's GNOME that's complaining, I'll just do Epiphany.
19:31<sney>aptitude is also a good tool for situations like this, you can 'aptitude remove foo' and just press N for its suggestions until it coughs up one you can work with.
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19:35<wswartz>I just went with Epiphany. Oh, and Brave from .deb has working 3D acceleration while the snap didn't.
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20:17<spidey>Hi guys. I'm running Debian Buster. I really want to play spider-man 2: the game on linux, will wine work just fine in Debian?
20:18<somiaj>spidey: you kinda have to check out for info on that, and what version of wine has good support for the game.
20:18<somiaj>Note has its own debian repo and packages that allow you to install versions of wine not in debian, and they work just fine here
20:18<somiaj>(basically the version of wine in buster is frozen, and if or if not it works for a particular game depends, and winehq can help you figure that out)
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20:19<somiaj>also building wine in debian isn't too bad either, but I've been happy with the winehq packages fora while now
20:19<spidey>somiaj: I see. I have just found this by performing a simple google search - , is this relevant?
20:20<somiaj>that's jsut the demo, and that is a very old version of wine, it might work just fine with the version supplied by debian
20:20<somiaj>,v wine
20:20<judd>Package: wine on amd64 -- stretch: 1.8.7-2; stretch-backports: 4.0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 4.0-2; bookworm: 5.0.3-3; bullseye: 5.0.3-3; sid: 5.0.3-3
20:20<somiaj>buster has 4.0
20:21<spidey>I see.
20:21<somiaj>,v wine-development
20:21<judd>Package: wine-development on amd64 -- stretch: 2.0-3; buster: 4.2-4; sid: 5.6-2; sid: 6.0+repack-1
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20:21<spidey>couldn't I just download the game from online and then run the executable with wine?
20:21<somiaj>you could also get 4.2 from wine-development, but I think the default wine will work just fine for that game (if it still works, hard to trust such old info)
20:22<somiaj>In theory, though it is worth getting a little familar with wine, creating a WINEPREFIX just for this game, and using winecfg and winetricks if needed. The exact configuration can vary drastically from game to game
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20:22<somiaj>since there isn't to much info on winehq, it might just work or take a little bit of research on your part, but the first things is
20:22<somiaj>try and see
20:23<spidey>thanks for your information!
20:23<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
20:23<somiaj>ahh missed the i
20:24<spidey>somiaj I am hoping it will work out of box, it is an old game and I want to play it because nostalgia
20:25<spidey>I remember that I used to play it back when I had my windows xp computer, now here I am on linux and dont want to use windows just to be able to play a game from my childhood
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20:28<spidey>somiaj: what do you say about this? and how do we install stuff from appdb
20:29<sney>spidey: appdb is just an information database. you will have to try installing your game in wine and see what happens
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20:30<spidey>I see
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20:30<spidey>I thought it is like pre-configured stuff for the game
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20:35<mechanic>spidey it's just a database, where people can report their journey how they fare installing stuff
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20:36<spidey>mechanic: so how do I play the game I want on wine? would installing wine and running the game just work? I don't think the game has any special stuff added into it as it's very old
20:37<mechanic>spidey, you would really just need to try installing it, you may look into lutris db, to see if there is an installer to look if they do something special. but who knows. as most companies do sometimes weird stuff which wine can't predict
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20:38<somiaj>spidey: install wine, try to use wine to install the game, deal with issues as they arise, might have to do some research or maybe a wine specific channel
20:38<spidey>I see. that's all I needed to know then, thanks!
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20:49<tulpa>hello i am upgrading my debian 10 VPS to bullseye. Just edited my sources:
20:49<tulpa>does that look ok?
20:50<dvs>!bullseye sources.list
20:50<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb bullseye main" "deb bullseye-security main" "deb bullseye-updates main". Note that it is <bullseye-security> and not <bullseye/updates>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and
20:50<sney>yes, you probably don't need all of the deb-src unless you are recompiling packages, but that is fine
20:50<tulpa>thank you
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21:52<ASDX>does anyone know how to install debian 10 with a preseed file to use a specific release (like 10.10)? i currently have the preseed file using an apt-cacher-ng server but it seems to install 10.10 plus newer packages. the apt-cacher-ng server has a buster and buster-updates dir but there are no references to 10.10 in either dir
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21:53<user_name_12345>Does the kernel for Debian 11 have any outstanding problems with ryzen mobile (first generation)?
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22:23<somiaj>ASDX: If installing from a mirror, you will always install the most current packages, in general it doesnt' matter what point release you install, an upgrade will bring you up to date.
22:24<somiaj>and yes you should only see a buster directory, since packages are not seperate by point releases
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23:00<mechanic>user_name_12345 no it shouldn't
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23:04<jhutchins>!release notes
23:04<dpkg>The release notes for Debian 11 (Bullseye) are at . See also <buster->bullseye>, <bullseye install guide>
23:04<dpkg>Last minute notes regarding Debian 11 ("bullseye") are listed at . Known problems in the installer are listed at
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23:40<ASDX>somiaj: so to achieve installation from a point release I'll have to switch to an ISO? wanting to do this so I can use Ansible and be aware of packages of particular packages when setting their config files that may change in format for example
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23:53<crawler>!ask ana_jpn
23:53<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
23:54<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
23:54<crawler>ana_jpn , please ask your question
23:56<ana_jpn>no questio
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 16 00:00:56 2021