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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-16

---Logopened Mon Aug 16 00:00:56 2021
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00:01<artur>end of war - sukces przyjaciele
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00:20<somiaj>ASDX: I don't really know what you are trying to achive, just use the mirror and get the current packages, which will be 10.10 + any security fixes since then.
00:20<somiaj>ASDX: I think your to focused on getting 10.10, as opposed to just having the most current packages that come from the mirror.
00:22<ASDX>somiaj: i'm thinking ahead when using config mgmt like ansible and if i start replacing config files with Ansible template files and those config files stop working after an OS upgrade. how do people deal with that? last time i used config mgmt a few years ago we were very careful with the versioning of packages (was CentOS) to ensure it didn't break existing functionality
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00:29<mechanic>ASDX you would normally put your configs in the specific directory, not the main config file, which means package upgrades don't overwrite your configs
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00:30<mechanic>if that even happens during a stable release
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00:48<somiaj>ASDX: Debian tries to be very careful to not break things on upgrades, stable is a frozen system, just make sure you use 'buster', and with LTS support you have about 3 years until that drops, if you need support longer than that, ELTS support for certain packages goes for another 5 years
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00:49<somiaj>Package upgrades will not overwrite custom changes to configuration files without you giving them premission to do so
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00:55<somiaj>ASDX: also the offical buster repo only gets updated at point releases, so the buster repo is 10.10 right now, the updates come from seperate repos, security repos and there is a proposed-update repo as well. During the next point release, when 10.11 hits is the time in which the packages in the main repo are updated, these will include all security fixes, and bug fixes
00:55<somiaj>so if you just remove security and buster-updates, you will get 10.10 (up until the time 10.11 comes out).
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00:57<himesama>if vlc and mpv do not play a .mkv, is there anything that will?
00:59<himesama>([mkv] Error parsing element Attachments [mkv] Invalid EBML length at position ...)
01:00<crawler>seems like a corrupted mkv file. To make sure you have the codec for it use mediainfo to determine the codec necessary to play the file, if you have that codec and vlc is unable to play it then the file is corrupted for sure
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01:03<himesama>i think this is corruption due to my own fault. thanks for the mediainfo tip.
01:03<himesama>crawler:
01:05<crawler>np
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01:24<ASDX>somiaj: thanks. good to know re the other repos being responsible for the upgraded packages from a point release i've seen
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01:50<somiaj>ASDX: Correct, though you should have a minimum have the security repo for obvious reasons, just using buster will get you 10.10
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02:34<ydbi>package 'cryptsetup' recommends 'cryptsetup-run', which is a transitional package. Is that a bug?
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02:51<hlauer>when setting a printer up in CUPS webinterface, I'm offered a dozends of HP LJ ppds with all the same description. How to find about the difference?
02:56<somiaj>Don't they have a name attached to them? What are the different names?
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03:50<alex11>bullseye certainly seems a little faster, i guess a new kernel will do that
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04:25<enkrypt>some of my installed packages packages ended up with an "ht" status instead of the usual "hi" (they are held)
04:25<enkrypt>the "t" is about triggers pending. what can I do to fix that?
04:25<enkrypt>the usual apt update; apt dist-upgrade; doesn't show anything special. neither does dpkg --configure -a, neither dpkg --triggers-only -a
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04:35<EmleyMoor>Got a few little bits and pieces to restore but pleased to say I'm now "all bullseye".
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05:39<tohoyn>I just installed Debian 11 into a VirtualBox VM and I resized some partitions with GParted Live CD. Now the system does not detect the swap partition.
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05:42<tohoyn>df does not show it and free shows 0 as swap size
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05:43<tohoyn>probably UUID has changed. how can I find out the new UUID of the swap partition?
05:43<jm_>blkid
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05:46<tohoyn>tx
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05:47<jm_>no problem
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05:49<franck-x>on my side, I had to fix samba and exim4
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05:57<tohoyn>it works now after I fixed UUID in /etc/fstab
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06:10<mks>hello
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06:29<sebastien>hello
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06:30<Guest4488>bonjour
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06:30<bittin>hey
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06:53<sjmulder>I have both bullseye-updates and bullseye-security in my sources, is that ok? what's updates?
06:54<seb1>bonjour
06:58<ydbi>sjmulder: the right sources.list https://0x0.st/-yi0.txt
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07:00<sjmulder>ydbi, thanks, that matches (except I have backports commented out). still curious how bullseye, bullseye-updates and bullseye-security relate to each other
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07:01<ydbi>bullseye is the full repo, -updates has updates to that repo and -security has security updates to that repo
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07:03<sjmulder>the full repo remains the same between point releases or such then?
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07:03<ydbi>yes
07:03<ansgar>sjmulder: Yes. "bullseye" changes only when a point release happens.
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07:04<sjmulder>ah so you could stay on that point release, have security updates, and not deal with misc updates in the meantime. that's nice
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07:10<StarFire>Hello World
07:10<bittin>hey StarFire
07:10<StarFire>I have a network problem with bullseye: If I create a bridge, I got 20-45% packet loss
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07:13<amacater>Starfire: what hardwasre / what firmware
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07:15<StarFire>amacater: just looking up...
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07:15<StarFire>00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82578DM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 05)
07:15<StarFire>Where do I find the firmware?
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07:20<amacater>Maybe in packages in non-free? firmware-misc-nonfree might help
07:20<amacater>(checked quickly in Google)
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07:21<StarFire>amacater: I´ve just realized that I have these packages not (yet) installed... :-(
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07:27<StarFire>amacater: Unfortunately this was not the problem
07:27<StarFire>71 packets transmitted, 49 received, 30.9859% packet loss, time 71660ms
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07:29*amacater is not sure. I'd suggest asking in mailing lists / using reportbug to report a bug. Double check your configs in case it's finger trouble, though.
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07:29<amacater>You generally only find that once you've raised a problem :)
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07:30<EmleyMoor>StarFire: If you can find the filename it's looking for in the logs, you can search package contents to find the right package.
07:31<StarFire>EmleyMoor: Thank you, I will check the logs
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07:36<StarFire>Hmm...
07:36<StarFire>I have a lot of these:
07:36<StarFire> br0: received packet on eno1 with own address as source address
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07:38<EmleyMoor>StarFire: That could be due to the new mac address thing with bridges
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07:38<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
07:38<cousin_luigi>Does anyone know if Ondřej Surý ever comes to irc?
07:38<bittin>hey, no idea
07:38<StarFire>EmleyMoor: new mac address thing?
07:39<EmleyMoor>Apparently a bridge now has a locally generated mac address rather than taking the first one made part of it.
07:40<cousin_luigi>What might be a debian help channel specifically about network problems?
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07:41<grove>!ask
07:41<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
07:42<EmleyMoor>cousin_luigi: Keep them here as a rule I'd have thought.
07:42<grove>I've never heard of that "Ondřej Surý" guy, but I do know (quite) a bit about networking
07:43<cousin_luigi>Thing is I'm running a customised version of debian.
07:43<grove>customised how?
07:43<grove>!based on debian
07:43<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
07:43<cousin_luigi>grove: I run debian with a ro root, with a few exceptions. After upgrading to bullseye, bind refuses to restart if not mounted ro.
07:43<cousin_luigi>grove: That's why I wanted to talk to the maintainer directly.
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07:44<cousin_luigi>grove: It's the old voyage linux for routers. I've only kept some scripts. Basically it mounts / via tmpfs and handles the exception for rw dirs at startup.
07:44<cousin_luigi>Every other package is untouched.
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07:45<vv221>grove, Ondřej is an active DD: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=ondrej%40sury.org
07:45<cousin_luigi>I see there's also Berni Schmidt. I didn't want to pester him in PM.
07:46<cousin_luigi>grove: If you'd like to have a look, despite the peculiar situation, I have logs.
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08:35<ydbi>It's so archaic that the text installer still asks "Select disk to partition: SCSI1 (0,0,0) ..."
08:36<ydbi>those SCSI things haven't been informative for a long time
08:37<alex11>what does 0,0,0 refer to?
08:38<ydbi>nothing anymore
08:38<jm_>scsi triplet, host, id, lun
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08:38<ydbi>and the kernel no longer uses that addressing, in the kernel version in bullseye
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08:38<ydbi>so it will always say 0,0,0
08:39<tarzeau>my sparcstation ipx, physically still exists and has that
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08:40<wonderbgr>hi all
08:41<amacater>!ask
08:41<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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08:43<wonderbgr>i just install debian 11 in dv6000 amd64 gpu nvidia 7200go and gdm3 is missing texture and no mouse at login.. only lightdm works..
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09:39<sjmulder>got dropped into a recovery shell at first boot after upgrading to Bullseye :( ZFS vdev misconfigured, or such. thought I'd fix it later. then later I rebooted and it was all good! odd
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09:44<magicuser>Hi, I have a personal box with buster installed. Now that bullseye is stable, is there anything I should do with my buster's sources.list entries? I will backup and upgrade in the coming weeks, but I just want to ensure that my current buster installation remains secured. Could I paste [apt-get update] GET logs for review here?
09:44<avu>magicuser: just make sure your sources.list refers to `buster` and not `stable`
09:46<magicuser>everything refers to buster except these external entries for vs-code and sublime-text: Hit:4 https://download.sublimetext.com apt/stable/ InRelease Hit:5 http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/code stable InRelease
09:46<magicuser>thanks btw, avu :)
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09:53<magicuser>I pasted apt-get logs here for my buster installation https://paste.debian.net/1207854/ ... I am wondering if there are obsolete or unnecessary duplicates in there. I believe I followed debian's apt and sources.list recommendations, but I'd love it to be reviewed so that I don't do anything wrong with bullseye.
09:55<avu>magicuser: looking at the actual sources.list file instead of apt update output would make this easier
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09:55<avu>magicuser: generally, I'd disable all those third party repos before upgrading
09:55<avu>magicuser: and, as always, read the release notes
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09:55<magicuser>I understand. Is there a way to also output sources.list.d entries, or are those unnecessary to review since they are outside official repos?
09:56<avu>they are equally important
09:56<avu>and it's just files, you ouput them like any other files? not sure what you're asking there
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09:59<magicuser>gotcha, thanks. I will ls the .d entries. here is sources.list content: https://paste.debian.net/1207857/
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10:00<avu>line 9 and 11 seem to be duplicates?
10:00<avu>and, as I said, I'd disable the third party repos
10:01<avu>the lines for security also changes but you'll get all that if you read the release notes before upgrading
10:01<magicuser>understood. I'll disable those before the upgrade
10:02<avu>!buster->bullseye
10:02<avu>dpkg: buster->bullseye
10:02<avu>well, if you message the bot, it will tell you
10:03<magicuser>those are IRC bot commands for automated help?
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10:03<avu>yes, dpkg is a bot here, you can query it in private
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10:05<magicuser>thanks again! I mostly wanted to validate with a human in case I had incompatible or irrelevant entries in there. I'll follow the release notes before the upgrade. I usually start fresh but I'll try the upgrade path this time.
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10:06<gry>:)
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10:10<jeroen___>Hello
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10:11<jeroen___>I am using the `debian:stable` docker image
10:11<jeroen___>I have been seeing this error for the past few days: `E: The repository 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates Release' does not have a Release file.`
10:12<ydbi>jeroen___: don't use debian:stable ever
10:12<ydbi>use debian:buster or debian:bullseye
10:12<jeroen___>You can easily reproduce this: `docker run -it debian:stable apt-get update`
10:13<ydbi>`docker run -it debian:bullseye apt-get update` will work
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10:13<jeroen___>Yes I know, but all our CI has been configured to test against the latest `debian:stable`
10:13<ydbi>then your CI is doing it wrong
10:13<ydbi>debian:stable is a rolling release
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10:14<jeroen___>Yes that is fine, but the repo shouldn't be broken?
10:14<ydbi>the repo is not broken
10:14<ydbi>this is by design
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10:15<ydbi>if docker wanted to fix it, then they'd have to have 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security stable-updates' instead of stable/updates
10:15<ydbi>but the main point remains, do *not* ever use debian:stable docker image
10:16<ydbi>only use named releases
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10:18<Sqrt{not}> jeroen___ the format of the security line in sources.list has changed
10:18<Sqrt{not}>jeroen___, now debian "bullseye" is stable, not anymore buster, and with it that change.
10:19<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, bullseye sources.list
10:19<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". Note that it is <bullseye-security> and not <bullseye/updates>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and
10:20<Sqrt{not}>jeroen___, this is part of what ydbi is trying to tell you: suddenly yesterday "stable" had a big change, from debian 10, to debian 11. This is one small part of what changed.
10:21<Tenkawa>I can understand Sqrt{not}'s fix being a good one however ydbi the logic of not having a nomenclature for release state ie stable, beta, unstable is just bad
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10:22<bremner>you may as well complain about gravity
10:22<ydbi>Tenkawa: contrary to its definition 'stable' is not stable, it *will* radically change from one day to another on flag days
10:22<Tenkawa>those should "always" point to a fixed point in time release
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10:23<ydbi>Tenkawa: 'stable' is not recommended to be used anywhere in debian documentation, if it is then that's a bug in the docs and needs to be fixed
10:23<Tenkawa>if I want whats stable… its bulleye .. but "I" shouldn't have to know that
10:23<Tenkawa>not as a end user
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10:24<Tenkawa>tomorrow it might be orion
10:24<Tenkawa>but who am I as an end user to know that
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10:24<ydbi>debian, and linux in general, encourages the users to have basic reading ability and ability to search for information
10:24<ydbi>all of it is covered in the release notes
10:24<ydbi>and what docker does with its images is outside of debian's control
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10:28<vv222[BI]>A "regular" end user is using Debian CD/USB to install their system, and end up with "buster"/"bullseye" in their sources.list, never with "stable".
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10:29<vv222[BI]>Using Docker images in CI is already advanced usage, that require a bit of previous knowledge of the system.
10:29<vv222[BI]>In my opinion there is nothing to fix here. (at least on Debian side)
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10:30<Tenkawa>vv221: irreleveant… the pointers are still there and if they are then whats the point
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10:31<Tenkawa>if they aren't to be used why have them at all then?
10:31<vv222[BI]>They are not to be used if you want to target a stable release.
10:31<vv222[BI]>On my Debian Sid I can use them reliably.
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10:32<Tenkawa>so you call something stable that != stable… how misleading is that...
10:32<bremner>Tenkawa: I think there is nothing more to say here. If you have an actual question that you need help with, please ask that.
10:33<vv222[BI]>Well, of course the "stable" keyword is expected to change its target once every two years, or we would still be using Debian Potato…
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10:33<bremner>just complaining about how you don't like how things are is not going to change anything
10:33<vv222[BI]>(following the cue, I'm stopping there on this subject, join #debian-offtopic or #debian-rant if you want to continue, I'm already there)
10:34<Tenkawa>vv222[BI]: thanks forgot about ot
10:34<ydbi>why is both gcc9-base and gcc10-base installed on a fresh new installation?
10:37<bremner>does "aptitude why gcc9-base" help? at a guess some packages still built with gcc9, but my install is old and messy
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10:38<ansgar>Both gcc-{9,10}-base have Priority: required. So both get installed.
10:38<ansgar>They probably should not have Priority: required.
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11:07<ens>pour one out for Robert Lemmen. Just got word he has left this Earth and worked hard contributing to debian.
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11:08<carl>hi I have a problem APT::Default-Release
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11:11<carl>the error message is: the vaulue testing is not valid for APT::Default-Release because this release is not available in the sources. In the sources I have everything set on bullseye. So there were no problem when bullseye was testing, not thet it is become stable i get this error message when I try to update and upgrade the packages
11:12<carl>now that it's become stable i get this error*
11:12<carl>how to change this value from testing to stable? is it better to remove completely this value?
11:13<carl>I am happy with bullseye from few months and still wanna use it in the next year
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11:14<bremner>carl: it should be ok to remove, unless you rely on pinning of packages from testing (which is probably not what you want)
11:14<carl>thatnks bremer, how to do it? can you help me?
11:14<gry>hi
11:15<carl>can someone help me with that?
11:16<carl>i would like to remove it, yes
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11:17<sjmulder>can one start a new X session on a different virtual terminal?
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11:18<bremner>carl: well, edit whichever file under /etc/apt contains that setting and remove it?
11:18<amacater>carl - use apt - apt upgrade?
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11:19<amacater>check /etc/apt/sources.list
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11:20<carl>apt update and apt upgrade does not really work
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11:21<carl>how to edit files under etc/apt? i dont know how to do it
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11:22<bremner>how did you get this non-default setting then, if you don't know how to edit config files?
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11:24<carl>bremer: an irc user helped me to do it months ago
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11:25<bremner>OK, just be patient, eventually someone will have time to walk you through it.
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11:26<carl>bremer: thanks
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11:27<amacater>carl: Can you become root / root equivalent via sudo on the machine?
11:27<amacater>carl: Do you feel confident using a text editor?
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11:28<carl>amacater: yes, the terminal, sudo ans su works
11:28<carl>and su*
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11:30<carl>sudo nano /etc/apt/apt.conf is empty
11:30<amacater>try /etc/apt/sources.list
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11:32<carl>amacater: https://paste.debian.net/1207865/
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11:33<amacater>carl: Looks OK to me. As root can you run apt update ; apt full-upgrade
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11:34<carl>amacater: no, there is a problem because APT::Default-Release is setted on testing
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11:37<carl>the problem maybe is in sudo nano etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ that user made me create it and set testing as value
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11:37<amacater>Ah, then delete it there
11:37<carl>but it is empy, strange
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11:38<amacater>Try /etc/apt/preferences
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11:39<mirage>What are 3pm manual pages?
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11:40<carl>amacater: empty
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11:40<ansgar>mirage: Perl modules.
11:41<mirage>Oh, thank you
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11:43<amacater>Carl - you have nothing in apt.conf.d at all?
11:43<amacater>Try running apt-get --default-release bullseye
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11:44<carl>amacater: maybe i have found something, in apt.conf.d there are several files 15 in total, 1 of these is defrelease.conf and insode i read APT::Default-Release "testing";
11:46<amacater>Remove that one then - on a clean install, I don't have that file. Or, possibly, change it to bullseye
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11:47<carl>amacater: should I delete the text APT::Default-Release "testing"; manually and save it? or is better to delete it from the terminal?
11:47<carl>amacater: I think I have creted that file as that user seggested me that
11:48<amacater>delete it from the terminal - I don't have that file.
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11:50<amacater>https://paste.debian.net/1207866/ is mine
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11:50<amacater>from /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
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11:50<carl>amacater: yes but I dont even know how to delete that file
11:51<amacater>if you have a terminal, type whoami
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11:52<amacater>if it tells you that you are root / you have a # prompt
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11:52<amacater>then cd /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
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11:52<amacater>rm -i defrelease.conf
11:53<amacater>It should prompt you to confirm, then delete the file
11:53<amacater>after which, exit from root's shell.
11:53<carl>amacater: etc/apt/apt.conf.d#
11:54<amacater>So your prompt is a #
11:54<amacater>That means you are root
11:54<carl>amacater yes
11:54<amacater>type pwd
11:54<amacater>[print working directory - that confirms which directory you are in]
11:55<amacater>type ls -l defrelease.conf
11:55<carl>it is this /etc/apt/apt.conf.d#
11:55<amacater>[that checks the file is there]
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11:56<amacater>If so, then run
11:56<amacater>rm -i ./defrelease.conf
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11:56<carl>i have to delete defrelease.conf
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11:57<amacater>The rm command I've just given you should do it - if you are in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d and are root
11:57<carl>amacater: yes seems that now has been removed
11:57<amacater>The -i is to make it interactive so it reminds you you are deleting a file and gives you a chance to check
11:57<amacater>OK - done :)
11:57<amacater>Now exit out of root's shell
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11:59<amacater>carl: For the future: be very careful of creating or editing random files if you don't know exactly what they do.
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11:59<carl>amacater: I answered yes to the question. now the update and upgrade is working good
12:00<carl>amacater: thanks a million
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12:00<carl>amacater: :)
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12:00<amacater>Auguri :)
12:01<kion>Hello, I upgraded buster to bullseye and after the upgrade now I can not open the gnome-terminal
12:01<carl>amacater: grazie
12:01<kion>I opened a tty terminal and ran gnome-terminal
12:01<kion>I got:
12:02<kion>Locale not supported by C library Using the fallback 'C' locale
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12:02<kion>unable to init server: Could not connect: connection refused
12:02<kion>Failed to parse arguments: cannot open display
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12:03<amacater>Do you normally have a GUI installed? Also, have you rebooted the machine since the upgrade?
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12:13<NoName3>Hi, I was looking at https://packages.debian.org/stable/ which according to my understanding would point "latest official release of the Debian distribution", but for some reason it redirect me directly to list packages for "buster" and not "bullseye"... Sorry for the, perhaps stupid, question but would this risk causing problem during the upgrade process (or after the upgrade has been done and any updates are to follow)?
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12:14<bentham>Is there a way to make 'stty rows X' permanent? In particular, I want to make the kernel always boot with a certain number of rows in its console.
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12:14<bentham>Currently, when my kernel boots, it thinks that my display can display about ten more rows than it actually can.
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12:18<somiaj>NoName3: no, packages.debian.org will not affect the upgrade, it just a web interface that hasn't been updated for the release yet.
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12:20<Slashman>hello, how can I check if the "Suite" has already changed on Debian 10 from 'stable' to 'oldstable' in the apt database?
12:21<somiaj>Slashman: look at the output of 'apt policy'
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12:21<NoName3>Somiaj: Thanks!
12:21<somiaj>Slashman: http://deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages release v=10.10,o=Debian,a=oldstable,n=buster,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
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12:22<spawacz>My systemd managed process does not produce a coredump on crash. I've installed systemd-coredump, and when i spawn and kill a random process, it generates the dump, but when i send the segv signal to my process managed by systemd, it no longer works
12:22<Slashman>yes, I saw, I'm trying to automate this for ansible since they don't support "--allow-releaseinfo-change"
12:22<Slashman>does something more "parsable" exists?
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12:23<somiaj>Slashman: What is your sources.list, I didn't need that when using 'buster', I think those using 'stable' or 'testing' did have to
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12:24<somiaj>though yea, some have been needing --allow-releaseinfo-change due to the release, but so far in my limited view here, I've only seen this effect people who are using links instead of codenames (I just know I didn't need it on my buster system)
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12:25<somiaj>hmm, I did need it on that vm, wonder if unattended upgrades did anything
12:25<Slashman>somiaj: /etc/apt/sources.list at https://apaste.info/UQPM
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12:29<somiaj>Slashman: yea, I wonder why my system with unatteneded-upgrades didn't require any fiddling, but my system I didn't have unattneded upgrades did
12:29<somiaj>anyways, hope you figure out a solution, this is beyond my experience
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12:31<Slashman>somiaj: you are indeed right, my boxes with unattended-upgrades don't have the prompt
12:31<Slashman>somiaj: so unattended-upgrades must have the "--allow-releaseinfo-change" option by default, good to know!
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12:37<jstolarek>I have a Debian Jessie installation that I want to update (remotely via SSH) to Bullseye. I'm nto sure which upgrade path to take: Jessie -> Stretch -> Buster -> Bullseye or should I go directly from Jessie to Bullseye?
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12:38<sney>jstolarek: the first one.
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12:39<jstolarek>ok, that's what I thought
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12:40<jstolarek>thanks
12:40<sney>np
12:40<yarden>hello
12:41<andger>Hey! How to install nvidia driver for GeForce GTS 250 in bullseye, there is no nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver
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12:41<amacater>jstolarek: There is no guaranteed way of skipping a release: if you upgrade, make sure to bring each distro up to date before doing the next one.
12:42<sney>andger: is nvidia-legacy-390xx old enough?
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12:43<amacater>andger - If it no longer exists, you may have to make do with nouveau
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12:44<amacater>Best to use the non-free firmware CD or DVD - the firmware detection is much better
12:44<andger>sney: is nvidia-legacy-390xx not suport GeForce GTS 250
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12:45<sney>andger: then as amacater says, your only option is nouveau. I would guess that the 340 driver series doesn't build with the 5.10 kernel, a lot of changes were made to nvidia stuff with that kernel series. make sure you have firmware-misc-nonfree installed for full nouveau features.
12:45<vv221>jstolarek, never skip versions when upgrading Debian releases, this is unsupported and mostlu untested ;)
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12:46<somiaj>jstolarek: a fresh install may also be something to consider since you have so many releases to upgrade through.
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12:47<andger>sney: amacater: thanks!
12:47<sney>andger: np.
12:48<amacater>jstolarek: Also READ THE RELEASE NOTES - for the last step, you may need to have 2 x ssh connections open because there's an issue as ssh upgrades - see Bullseye release notes
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12:50<vv221>somiaj, it might be a more sensible choice than the full upgrade path, but much less fun ;P
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12:51<amacater>somiaj: It's important that this is a remote upgrade over ssh so may not be feasible that way
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12:52<somiaj>amacater: ahh missed though, though you can install over ssh (almost), just need someone to do a few things to start the ssh installer
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12:54<jstolarek>somiaj: if I had physical access to the machine that's what I would do, but I don't
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12:55<jstolarek>amacater: yes, I've seen the release notes but thanks
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12:56<jstolarek>somiaj: I mean, I could imagine this would be doable but would probably complicate things on my end
12:56<somiaj>jstolarek: Understood. Anyways there is an option to install over ssh, if you could get someone with physicall access to spend a 10-15 minuets setting it up
12:56<somiaj>jstolarek: but you know your use case better than I do, it was something to consider, and sounds like you have and probably upgrading is the way to go
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12:56<somiaj>jstolarek: another option with upgrades, remove lots of packages so you have a fairly minimial system (standard packages + ssh server maybe), this way the upgrades are easier because there isn't to much to upgrade, then reintall after complete
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12:57<jstolarek>somiaj: thanks, haven't thought of that
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13:14<mh3f>https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/ did I break it? :]
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13:28<esselfe>Hi, I'm upgrading my buster server to bullseye but I'm getting this: https://i.imgur.com/dE2kfir.png any ideas?
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13:29<sney>!bullseye security
13:29<dpkg>On Debian 11 "bullseye" systems, there are two repositories that you should have in your sources.list aside from your main mirror. You should have an entry for "bullseye-security" which is <security> updates (and also "bullseye-updates" which is for <stable-updates>. See also <sources.list>. Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
13:29<sney>note the change in name from /updates to -security.
13:29*olasd hands dpkg a close parenthesis
13:31<esselfe>so it's broken now?
13:31<sney>no...
13:31<sney>you need to change the name of your security repo entry. from bullseye/updates to bullseye-security.
13:31<esselfe>alright, let me try that
13:31*sney rewinds in case it needs to be said a 3rd time
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13:32<esselfe>it works, thanks
13:33<sney>np
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13:37<ens>today is debian day. happy bday debian.
13:39<xormor>did Ian Murdock quit developing and being the leader before 1995?
13:39<crazyfrog>i try to add a container with a private ip, on the host the netmask ist /24 and in container /32 is this normal? because i can't change the netmask
13:40<xormor>I think he was the starter, and Bruce Perens was the leader in the end of the 1990's, the Toy Story man with whom came the Toy Story character names for the different releases (versions) of Debian.
13:41<bittin>ens, yeah happy 28th Birthday there will be an Online Birthday party in 19 minutes
13:41<bittin>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDay/2021/Online/Online
13:41<bittin>will join after the Debcamp/Debconf Online 2021 orga meeting is done for today so will be late
13:41<WizardNumberNext>Happy Birthday Debian
13:42<WizardNumberNext>I use Debian 18 years
13:42<bittin>i am not sure when i started using Debian
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13:42-!-jack is "Live session user" on #debian
13:43<xormor>I started in 2006 I think, but before that I used other distros and sometimes I used distros "based on Debian".
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13:43-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-next #security #debian.or.at #debian
13:43<xormor>Xandros was based on Debian, Mandrake and Red Hat were not, Slackware was a thing of its own.
13:44<WizardNumberNext>I am very sure When I started - release day of Debian 3.1ro Sarge
13:44<bittin>ah i started with Etch
13:44<bittin>so a bit later
13:44<WizardNumberNext>I have it on virtual machine as amd64 (i386 is way too slow, I suspect it is alignment problem)
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13:45-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
13:45<WizardNumberNext>I hope this is corect place for my question. I am trying to assemble whole Jessie mirror. The problem is, that no single place contains whole jessie release. KfreeBSD was stopped being provided on mirros at the same time, asarchitectures, which are on in LTS. LTS is easy to obtain. I have mirrored everything after weeks of pulling it from snapshots.debian.org (I am very sorry for bandwidth and latency used). I have
13:45<WizardNumberNext>everything needed. I just need to create all files which are residing in dists section. I know how to create Packages and Contents and even Release. I am clueless how to EASILY create Contents-udeb-$arch.gz. Anybody with good idea or who can point me to good source of knowldge. It is hard to ask good question on google (the less words you will use, the more you will get results, but this time it does not work to my
13:45<WizardNumberNext>advantage).
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13:54<jhutchins>!own repo
13:54<dpkg>To feed your own packages into apt, you need to create a repository with a Packages file that lists the packages. If you only have a few packages and don't have very sophisticated requirements, you can use <dpkg-scanpackages>. If you want to be able add/remove packages using regular Debian tools like dput then try <reprepro> or mini-dinstall. See http://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository
13:54<jhutchins>!debian repos howto
13:54<dpkg>somebody said debian repos howto was http://www.isotton.com/debian/docs/repository-howto/repository-howto.html
13:55<jhutchins>WizardNumberNext: Ought to be something in there.
13:55<bittin>is the Debian Matrix sad for anyone else?
13:56<ens>oh nice bittin i just saw your message. i'll join in shortly re: online bday party
13:57<esselfe>now it takes 1m31s to login via ssh...
13:58<bittin>ens, will join after the organizers voluenteer meeting for Debcamp/Debconf Online so in about 1 hour
13:58<amacater>esselfe - wow, what have you done immediately prior to this?
13:58<esselfe>I ran 'wget -qO- https://repos-droplet.digitalocean.com/install.sh | sudo bash' because I couldn't login via vnc
13:59<esselfe>(It's on digitalocean :P)
13:59<esselfe>I just rebooted after the upgrade
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14:00<esselfe>even before that wget command it was taking a while to login
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14:01<esselfe>systemd timeouts are this long, maybe related?
14:01<brickfat>why debian 11 doesn't allow shutdown on a regular user account. though root account does allow in the same pc
14:01<brickfat>i use with xrdp
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14:02<ens>esselfe: was it cups?
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14:02<WizardNumberNext>jhutchins, I already used apt-ftparchive for both Contents-$arch.gz and Release
14:03<ens>i got that when i updated anyway. i turned off the service via systemd
14:03<WizardNumberNext>I need Contents-udeb-$arch.gz
14:03<esselfe>I don't think I have cups installed, no printers, it's a server
14:03<user01>im curious how many ppl do fresh installs over upgrading from oldstable
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14:04<esselfe>join #digitalocean
14:04<user01>i think i prefer the fresh install method . . . gives me a chance to clean things up a bit after years of stable use
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14:04<WizardNumberNext>jhutchins, I would have another read of man dpkg-scanarchives - it seams I missed something. "Creates Release and Contents files without providing *.changes with additional scripts." this is from first webpage
14:05<user01>for my laptop anyway
14:05<WizardNumberNext>user01, I always were doing fresh install, as upgrade was challanging in sarge era
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14:06<user01>WizardNumberNext, i think i remember having more issues with upgrading too back then
14:07<user01>WizardNumberNext, it seem to have gotten much better though
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14:08<user01>WizardNumberNext, and i kinda like checking how accurately i guessed my partition usage over time
14:08<WizardNumberNext>Now I may be doing dist-upgrade from buster to bookworm, if (and only if) KDE would be usable. KDE is unusable in Bullseye, as frameless windows "merge" and you cannot see egdes of windows
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14:09<WizardNumberNext>user01 I always do df on old system and just add safe margin
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14:09<WizardNumberNext>lately 32GiB for root is sufficient
14:09<WizardNumberNext>user01, I always keep root, boot and home separate
14:09<user01>WizardNumberNext, yes me too
14:10<sney>sid and bullseye and bookworm all currently have the same version of kde plasma. you'll probably have to watch kde.org for changes in kwin behavior anyway, as debian does not customize it
14:10<user01>WizardNumberNext, i sometimes also keep var separate to prevent log overrun
14:10<WizardNumberNext>user01, I used to have boot, swap, root, usr, var and tmp. In this exact order - for hdd speed puproses
14:11<WizardNumberNext>user01, logs on var were killing me and I was always getting into no space left on var, so now it is oin same partition
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14:11<WizardNumberNext>user01, whole os is on nvme, home is on ssd
14:14<marhas>When I installed Debian 11 using the nonfree iso, the "cd-rom repository" was not removed when the installation was done, So i had to manually remove that from sources.list
14:14<marhas>Is that a bug?
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14:14<tarzeau>marhas: it's been like that for ages, would be new to me
14:14<tarzeau>and i don't consider it a bug
14:15<sney>that's a common behavior if the installer is unable to set up the network
14:15<tarzeau>on internetless places, you can still use apt-get that way
14:15<somiaj>marhas: it is working as designed.
14:16<marhas>All is good then! :)
14:16<WizardNumberNext>marhas, it is removing cd/dvd repository from /etc/apt/sources.list ONLy if you used netinst for installation, otherwise it is left there ,as 4GB is a lot for packages
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14:17<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Ahh, that makes sense now!
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14:20<WizardNumberNext>marhas, yeah, Debian makes a lot of (very stable) sense
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14:21<marhas>WizardNumberNext: As a long time Arch user it's a breath of stable air :D
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14:24<vv221>I read that as « stale air » ;P
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14:26<marhas>vv221: Understandable since "stable air" doesn't make sense :P
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14:26<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I started to use linux around year 2000. I used Mandrake and it was not as stable as debian. Debian was really stable. Now it is not so stable, as it used to be.
14:27<brickfat>anyone use debian 11 with xrdp?
14:27<WizardNumberNext>brickfat, I use debian from around jessie with x11vnc. Would it help?
14:27<marhas>WizardNumberNext: In what way is Debian less stable nowadays? Im newer in the game(2012)
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14:27<jmcnaught>"stable" in the Debian context means "does not change much very often"
14:27<WizardNumberNext>marhas, if you ever used 2012 \
14:28<marhas>jmcnaught: Right!
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14:28<brickfat><WizardNumberNext> it may not be relevant but can you check that does it allow shut down pc
14:28<marhas>WizardNumberNext: I used debian for the first time last year
14:28<WizardNumberNext>marhas, if you ever used 2012 Debian, then you would started at worst time ever. KDE apps used to grash like crazy on lenny and squeeze
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14:29<WizardNumberNext>brickfat, it depends if you run from say sddm or session directly trough vnc or rdp
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14:30<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Oh!
14:30<WizardNumberNext>brickfat, if you use say x11vnc, then it is desktop, which runs on your screen connected to desktop, where Xorg is running
14:31<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I am not sure, how far xrdp is going, but vnc started through xvnc is not treated same, as X running on same computer
14:31<brickfat>https://imgur.com/a/aqFjY52
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14:33<marhas>I'm looking into maintaining packages for debian. Where do I even start?
14:34<jmcnaught>!nmg
14:34<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/
14:34<jmcnaught>marhas: ^
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14:38<marhas>jmcnaught: Thank you!
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14:48<WizardNumberNext>I installed bookworm on qemu via libvirt via virt-manager and Xorg does not respond to keypresses. Any indeas? I have made no configuration and this is first time Xorg does not respond to keypresses fron qemu/kvm
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14:50<Sqrt{not}>WizardNumberNext, bookworm (testing) questions are better in #debian-next
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14:53<colo>do I understand correctly that with the bullseye kernel, ethernet bridges will have randomly generated HWaddrs? will these be generated anew at each bootup?
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14:56<jkc>colo: How do you have the bridge configured?
14:57<colo>jkc, in no special way. it inherits its hwaddr from "bridge_ports eth0" at the moment. all tap devices have higher hwaddrs configured.
14:59<jkc>Just use the bridge_hw option.
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14:59<jkc>Lets you manually specify the mac for the bridge intf.
14:59<colo>I know I can do that, but I would still be interested to learn about the new behavior :)
14:59<jkc>OH.
14:59<jkc>Sorry, I misunderstood the intent.
15:00<colo>(but the only box with a bridge configured that I have atm is remote, so I would rather not mess up its network config)
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15:00<colo>no worries :) thanks for the pointer, it might probe useful to the next confused user.
15:00<colo>prove*
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15:02<WizardNumberNext>colo, I have not seen random MAC on brisge ever. Maybe if you create empty bridge (no slaves)
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15:02<colo>WizardNumberNext, https://sources.debian.org/src/bridge-utils/1.7-1/debian/NEWS/
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15:03<marhas>Is virt-manager comparable to virtualbox in terms of performance and features?
15:03<WizardNumberNext>colo, I run bridge on most of my machines, regardless, if I need it right now or no not. I always find it needed, when I forget how to set it up in /etc/network/interfaces. I learned how to do it with bridge-utils and ip
15:04<sney>marhas: I switched to virt-manager from virtualbox and never looked back, as far as testing vms on the desktop goes.
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15:04<sney>it doesn't have any vbox proprietary features of course. but it's libvirt/qemu under the hood, and those are used in production
15:05<WizardNumberNext>colo, kernel developers amazases me sometimes with inventing things nobody needs
15:05<marhas>sney: I basically use it to have a Windows install for some stupid college specific tasks
15:05<Tenkawa>virt-manager is a interface to manage vms.. "it" is not a vm engine
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15:05<marhas>So I guess virt-manager works well for that!
15:05<Tenkawa>yes very
15:06<WizardNumberNext>marhas, virt-manager is only a shell over libvirt (qemu-kvm, xen or even virtualbox)
15:06<marhas>Tenkawa: Right. kvm is the engine right?
15:06<Tenkawa>I like it a lot
15:06<Tenkawa>yep.. kvm.. xen, etc
15:06<bentham>marhas: have you considered using the library for that, rather than to allow Windows to probe your hardware devices, your local network, and your Internet carrier?
15:06<bentham>(just a thought)
15:06<WizardNumberNext>marhas, virt-manager is much better then virtualbox and it is as easy to use
15:07<marhas>bentham: Yes I have, but the library has been closed due to Covid. But i will put my Windows vm in the trash as soon as it opens back up
15:07<Tenkawa>main sentence from its descrip says it all: It primarily targets KVM VMs, but also manages Xen
15:07<Tenkawa> and LXC (Linux containers).
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15:07<marhas>WizardNumberNext: I will give it a go!
15:08<WizardNumberNext>Tenkawa, you are right
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15:08<WizardNumberNext>marhas, it worth giving solid shot
15:08<Tenkawa>indeed
15:08<marhas>looks like the virt-manager packages pulls in what I need in terms of kvm to
15:09<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I have been using qemu-kvm for solid two years and then suddenly I decided to switch to libvirt using virt-manager and I wont go back
15:09<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Is qemu and libvirt both based on kvm? I'm very noobish in this field
15:09<WizardNumberNext>marhas, add qemu, libvirt
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15:10<WizardNumberNext>marhas, no, qemu is just an interface to kvm (Kernel Virtual Machine), libvirt is interface to qemu and virt-manager is inrterface to libvirt
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15:11<WizardNumberNext>marhas, don't worry about this. We all learn. I never stopped. Even after 10 years of constant usage of some VMMs
15:11<marhas>WizardNumberNext: I see, layers of abstractions from KVM to virt-manager then I suppose!
15:12<Tenkawa>WizardNumberNext: actually thats not quite correct either… qemu can run software emulation of cpu's without kvm too
15:12<Tenkawa>I do it all the time
15:12<WizardNumberNext>Tenkawa, you are right, and there is TCG as well
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15:12<Tenkawa>I use it for my arm work
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15:13<WizardNumberNext>marhas, yes layers of abstraction, very close to actual thing
15:13<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Thank you everyone for your inputs btw :) Learned alot about VMs today :D
15:13<ivan_>hola buenas tarde
15:13<ivan_>saludo desde mexico
15:13<Tenkawa>marhas: its a lot of fun
15:13<WizardNumberNext>marhas, there is a lot to learn, but every bit helps
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15:13<Tenkawa>(at least for me)
15:14<marhas>Tenkawa: Indeed. I love messing around with vms
15:14<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I hope you have a lot of RAM. It allows to run a lot of VMs. I have server for multiple VMs. Dell PowerEdge R715
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15:15<Tenkawa>WizardNumberNext: no fair lol
15:15<marhas>WizardNumberNext: I do! Just got a new laptop actually and installed bullseye. It has 32 Gbs of RAM and 8 core CPU
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15:15<marhas>Should be enough
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15:15<Tenkawa>plenty
15:16<WizardNumberNext>marhas, just be aware of few quirks. eg running old i386 software on modern amd64 hardware will be slow due to aligment problems (new processors like 16 byte aligment, old software uses 8 byte alignment at best)
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15:16<WizardNumberNext>marhas, that is enough for quite few VMs
15:17<marhas>It's from a company called Tuxedo computers if you're familiar
15:17<WizardNumberNext>marhas, This how much my desktop have. My server have 128GB in 8 channels with 2 AMD Opteron 6170SE (quad channel each)
15:17<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I shall check them out
15:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 1021] by debhelper
15:18<Tenkawa>my old esx boxes didn't have but around 64gb lol
15:18*Tenkawa was a esx admin in the mid 2000's
15:18<marhas>WizardNumberNext: 128GB lol. That is... alot
15:19<Tenkawa>marhas: you should see how much ram they are putting on some of the high end servers
15:19<Tenkawa>its surreal
15:19<marhas>Tenkawa: What possible task requires that much?
15:19<colo>I racked boxes with 1TB RAM back in 2012.
15:20<colo>(well OK, only one box ;) but still!)
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15:20<WizardNumberNext>marhas, that was literaly £50 for 192GB, so this is not that much. It is 16x 8GB stick
15:20<Tenkawa>not sure nowadays personally… I've been out of the industry a while now
15:21<WizardNumberNext>marhas, many VMs. I can run 4 VMs which won't share any resources, as my server is actually 4 sockets (two sockets each physicall CPU, as each die is absolutely separate)
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15:21<marhas>Ahh, i want a home server.. Can't fit one in my college dorm though lol
15:21<cambrian_invader>is there an equivalent of `trap foo ERR` for dash?
15:22<marhas>WizardNumberNext: What do you use your vms for?
15:22-!-hlauer [~hlauer@ip5f596799.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:23<WizardNumberNext>marhas, testing, learning, CentOS, RHEL (I have developer license - 16 machines)
15:23<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Damn that's cool!
15:23<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I got server for £30, £20 for CPUs
15:24<WizardNumberNext>marhas, just create account and you can get such license. You need non-consumer grade email account. I used my 1&1 for this.
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15:26<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Thanks for the suggestion! Will check that out
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15:26<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Do you use Debian on your daily driver?
15:26<Tenkawa>WizardNumberNext: haha 1&1… I used them oh so long ago....
15:26<WizardNumberNext>marhas, if you like linux, you can use it to make money
15:27<marhas>WizardNumberNext: I like both linux and money!
15:27<WizardNumberNext>Tenkawa, I have to have some domain for single file, as ebay does not work good with embedded CSS code
15:27<Tenkawa>WizardNumberNext: I have my own hosting
15:28<Tenkawa>but I use to run an ISP though in the 90's so I had a few resources :)
15:28<WizardNumberNext>Tenkawa, My hosting is not stable enough and I have 1mbit upload
15:28<Tenkawa>and knew contacts
15:28<marhas>I use Linode for my servers
15:28<Tenkawa>haahaa I used linode at one time too
15:28-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:28<Tenkawa>nice
15:28<Tenkawa>they were fun
15:28<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I may consider Linode in future
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15:29<crazyfrog>i try to setup a lxc container and get the errorFailed to parse config file "/home/user57505/.local/share/lxc/vm10/config" at line "lxc.network.ipv4 = 192.168.100.10/24"
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15:29<Guest4423>will debian installer default to xfs instead of ext4 in future?
15:30<marhas>I started with Digital ocean, but they messed up my mariadb database (non-recoverable) And of course my cron-jobs for mysqldump did not work
15:30-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d429d0.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Quit: Stay safe!]
15:30<WizardNumberNext>crazyfrog, I am not expert at lxc. Did you check if you have matching interface
15:30<marhas>So never ever DigitalOcean again for me!
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15:30<marhas>Or the actual cronjob worked, but running the mysqldumps didn't :(
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15:31<crazyfrog>WizardNumberNext, with ip a it's dosen't show me the host ip 192.168.100.1 but i can ping the ip
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15:31<marhas>What is up with libappindicator not being installabe in bullseye?
15:31<marhas>Trying to install Slack
15:32<marhas>I can use the flatpak package but still, annoying
15:32<WizardNumberNext>marhas, I have written my own backup script and tested it toroughly. I would try to find all problems beforehand
15:32<Tenkawa>marhas: got a specific error on libappindicator install?
15:32-!-hlauer [~hlauer@ip5f596799.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
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15:32*Tenkawa can try it here
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15:33<WizardNumberNext>crazyfrog, This was just idea, but worth trying. I am clueless
15:33<marhas>Tenkawa: https://paste.debian.net/1207900/
15:34<Tenkawa>just a sec let me take a read
15:34<marhas>WizardNumberNext: Yeah
15:34<marhas>Tenkawa: Thanks! :)
15:34<Tenkawa>ahh haa
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15:35<Tenkawa>try installing libindicator first with apt-get install… it might be trying to dpkg -i which will bypass attempting to install prereqs
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15:35<Tenkawa>you might need to apt-get search for the whole pkg name
15:36<Tenkawa>checking hee
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15:36<Tenkawa>er here
15:36<Sqrt{not}>marhas, if you are trying to install a downloaded file, use dpkg, like was suggested in the error message
15:36-!-hendursa1 [~weechat@0BGAADLYH.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
15:36<Tenkawa>libappindicator3-1
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15:37<marhas>Sqrt{not}: Oh is there a difference?
15:37<dbristow>Is Deiban 9.x now officially out of support?
15:37<marhas>libappindicator3-1 is not found when i run apt search
15:37-!-youhaj [~dmiraj@modemcable177.73-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:37<Tenkawa>Sqrt{not}: dpkg will not look for installed dependencies
15:37<Sqrt{not}>marhas, for installing a plain file, I think dpkg -i is the recommended way
15:38<hendursaga>dbristow: /msg dpkg stretch-lts
15:38<vv221>dbristow, no, not yet: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
15:38<Sqrt{not}>v libappindicator3-1
15:38<Tenkawa>and his sources.list is missing it apparently
15:38<hendursaga>vv221: beat ya to it :)
15:38<Sqrt{not}>Tenkawa, in their paste they were trying to install a file
15:38<Sqrt{not}>,v libappindicator3-1
15:38<judd>Package: libappindicator3-1 on amd64 -- stretch: 0.4.92-4; buster: 0.4.92-7; sid: 0.4.92-8
15:38<vv221>hendursaga, I miss the knowledge of the factoids ;P
15:39<marhas>judd: Oh okay. Not available then
15:39<vv221>About libappindicator3-1: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#noteworthy-obsolete-packages
15:39<Tenkawa>Sqrt{not}: yes… but when you do that to a "single" deb it bypasses dependency checking
15:39<vv221>(the release notes are great, you should all read the release notes)
15:39<marhas>I guess I could download libappindicator from sid. But that is not good practice i think?
15:39<Tenkawa>in the apt database
15:40<vv221>marhas, cf. the link I shared, it is probably going to be dropped from Sid too.
15:40<Tenkawa>libappindicator3-1 - allow applications to export a menu into the panel -- GTK3 version
15:40<Tenkawa>its on my box… hmm
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15:41<marhas>vv221: libappindicator is deprecated lo. That explains it!
15:41<marhas>I should maybe contact Slack and suggest using libayatana-appindicator instead :)
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15:42<vv221>Yes, especially knowing that is shift to a new library is not new: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2018/03/msg00506.html
15:42<vv221>*that this shift
15:42<WizardNumberNext>I am happy to see that bookworm have visible edges of windows on KDE
15:42<Sqrt{not}>Tenkawa, if you are installing a downloaded file, you are outside the dependencies already
15:43<Tenkawa>Sqrt{not}: oh I definitely agree there
15:43<marhas>vv221: discord seems to have the same problem
15:43<WizardNumberNext>bullseye have no visible edges of windows on KDE
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15:43<marhas>vv221: I guess they will take action when Ubuntu removes libappindicator to..
15:43<marhas>they being Slack and Discord
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15:44<WizardNumberNext>bookworm have mouse spped setting back on KDE. At last!
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15:45<cambrian_invader>is there an equivalent of `trap foo ERR` for dash?
15:45<WizardNumberNext>I was very tired of constantly unintentionally draging things
15:45<vv221>Well, I’m OK with Slack and Discord "desktop applications" not working ;P
15:46<marhas>vv221: Yeah true. I think both are electron which is kinda funny
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15:47<marhas>Good thing I have 32GB of RAM so i can run both at the same time :P
15:47<vv221>Electron can die. And Google Chrome(ium) with it too. But this is probably a topic for #debian-rant ;)
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15:48<marhas>vv221: YEah it probably is lol
15:49<Sqrt{not}>cambrian_invader, yes, see: man dash
15:49<cambrian_invader>there doesn't appear to be an equivalent to ERR
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15:50<cambrian_invader>specifically, I need to do cleanup if a command fails (with set -e), but not if everything succeeds
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16:03<Tenkawa>doesn't dash have normal exit code printing of $?
16:04<vv221>Sure, but with `set -e` the execution stops on the first error.
16:04<vv221>So in most cases it’s too late to test $? afterwards ;)
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16:06<Tenkawa>set -ev is one way to make it more verbose
16:06<Tenkawa>to at least try to put a wrapper on it
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16:17<crazyfrog>i get the error when starting a lxc container: parse.c: lxc_file_for_each_line_mmap: 142 Failed to parse config file "/home/user/.local/share/lxc/vm10/config" at line "lxc.network.ipv4 = 192.168.100.10/24"
16:18<crazyfrog>this is from the debian doc. site: https://wiki.debian.org/LXC/SimpleBridge
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16:19<crazyfrog>what is wrong with this setting, how should be the command to set the ip in the conatainer config file?
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16:24<Guest4423>why is my vm's video adapter detected differently in different vm's even though they are identically configured?
16:25<WizardNumberNext>crazyfrog, I am reading from link you have provided. Did you try to run it without this line? You may just comment it out and try right away
16:26<somiaj>someimtes the parse error is before the line it outputs, like you are missing a parameter, symbol etc
16:26<WizardNumberNext>somiaj, you are reading my mind
16:26<Tenkawa>what does your line say exactly? is it double-quoted or is that the error message parser showing that? I ask because the docs do not have it quoted however the error above does and I just want to be thorough.
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16:27<Tenkawa>just in case its picky about syntax
16:27*Tenkawa really hates parsing
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16:29<preston>Ive installed bullseye on my t420, I did have to use the nonfree iso for the wifi drivers, but i was getting update isues with the security update on the sources list. Is this a known issue?
16:29<somiaj>!bullseye/updates
16:29<dpkg>There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
16:29<somiaj>preston: the security repo has changed, but the offical installers should have no issues setting up the correct repo.
16:30<somiaj>preston: so not really an issue (And this is in the release notes), but unsure why a fresh install using an offical installer would not set them up correctly
16:30<preston>I was able to change the sources list to the one suggested in the wiki
16:30<somiaj>what wiki?
16:31<preston>https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
16:31<Sqrt{not}>preston, show us the line in your sources.list for security
16:32<somiaj>yea, that looks correct for bullseye, maybe you had an issue/typo copything them
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16:32<somiaj>preston: use paste.debian.net if you need a pastebin
16:34<preston>http://paste.debian.net/1207911
16:35<WizardNumberNext>preston that is fine. I have same in my debmirror script and it works
16:35<preston>these are the sources I curently have, which are the ones put into my sources list
16:36<preston>In hindsight I probably should have asked first before modifying it
16:36<somiaj>preston: give us the output of 'apt update'
16:36<somiaj>oh you haven't tested if these new ones work?
16:36<somiaj>does apt update work?
16:36<preston>I have and they do yes
16:36<somiaj>good, everything should be fine now
16:37<preston>the hindsight part i mentioned was in reference to the question about what source I had listed that werent working
16:38<preston>I came on and asked more out of curiosity as to why they would get messed up in the first place?
16:38<somiaj>if you were upgrading from buster you have to manually change them
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16:38<preston>fresh install
16:38<somiaj>the installer should work, and it works fine for me, without knowing what you did unsure
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16:39<somiaj>what install image did you use, what sort of options did you do? Are you able to reproduce it, if you are and find a bug in the installer report it
16:39<preston>the one thing I can think of is that this is the unofficial non-free firmware install?
16:40<ens>i'm looking for a gui irc client that supports some sort of resuming (so i can reboot and not have to worry about missing messages). i have a dedicated box so maybe it can work with a zvnc in combination.
16:40<ens>any suggestions?
16:40<somiaj>that shouldn't matter, but again what you describe sounds odd. I would try to reproduce it if you are wondering if there is a bug then report it
16:40<olasd>ens: quassel works that way; but if you set up a bouncer on your dedicated box, I assume most clients would do that
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16:40<somiaj>but now that it is working, maybe just move on, up to you how much investigation you want to do
16:40<olasd>(i.e. the bouncer would transmit the missing messages on reconnect)
16:41<ens>ah i see. thanks. i'll note quassel.
16:41<somiaj>ens: I use irssi inside of tmux on a remote server, gui is going require some other method to connect to it
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16:41<preston>I was thinking the same thing I will try to reproduce and if i can i will report it
16:42<ens>well i like irssi but i find it hard to keep track of many channels with irssi without polling them at intervals
16:42<ens>perhaps it is not a solved problem but i'm still willing to explore
16:42<preston>And thanks for the help and the responsiveness everyone
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16:54<r4fkramer>This is my sources.list, I've upgraded from buster to bullseye testing. Now, it's like that. Please, how to proceed ? # bullseye-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
16:54<r4fkramer>Only this line; my sources.list is empty.
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16:56<somiaj>!release notes
16:56<dpkg>The release notes for Debian 11 (Bullseye) are at https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <buster->bullseye>, <bullseye install guide>
16:56<tepozoa>r4fkramer: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list <- use the examples
16:57<somiaj>r4fkramer: read the release notes, it tells you what to use for your sources.list
16:57<somiaj>!bullseye sources.list
16:57<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
16:57<r4fkramer>Ok somiaj, thank you.
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16:58<sussudio>https://gist.github.com/5899242 first google result for "bullseye sources.list"
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16:59<r4fkramer>Thank you tepoza for information.
16:59<tepozoa>you're welcome :)
16:59<r4fkramer>Thanks sussudio. I am going to apply tepozoa and somiaj recommendation here :)
16:59<tepozoa>there's also an online generator if you want o maybe use mirrors or something
16:59<r4fkramer>tepoza :)
17:00<r4fkramer>Please, tepozoa, how does this online generator work ?
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17:01<tepozoa>https://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ it's just a web wizard someone made -- the idea is you should use the examples from the wiki and make it "just work" first. /then/ worry about fine-tuning it to mirrors as a second step
17:02<r4fkramer>Ok tepozoa, I'll read these instructions. More one doubt: should I remove the '#' on the top left of sources.list ?
17:02<tepozoa>you can, or leave it - that's a comment, dead weight to the code
17:03<tepozoa>in theory a cut-paste from the Example on the wiki will work 100%, should be that simple
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17:18<r4fkramer>Ok tepozoa, I'll proceed like that. Thank you very much for your attention and great support !
17:18<kion>Why am I getting this message:?
17:18<kion>E: The repository 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file.
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17:23<tepozoa>path changed, it's in the release notes - s|bullseye/updates|bullseye-security| on that line
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17:24<somiaj>!bullseye/updates
17:24<dpkg>There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
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17:27<r4fkramer>kion, teṕozoa and somiaj hints worked here: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list
17:28<r4fkramer>The Official Debian scope
17:30<kion>Thanks a lot @r4fkramer
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17:32<r4fkramer>kion, oh, happy you fixed your issue :)
17:32<kion>Yes it did!
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17:34<r4fkramer>kion, Great !
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18:34<lifesgood>for a display manager gdm3 may be look moder but it discloses the users name which I consider a security issue, lxde on his way with lightdm force an intruder to guess user name plus password.
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18:37<TobiX>lifesgood: That... can be disabled...
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18:38<TobiX>And probably should be on enterprise deployments, because it gets quite cumbersome with more then a few users :D
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18:41<Tenkawa>lifesgood: do you have a /etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings file?
18:42<Tenkawa>if so look in it for disable-user-list=true
18:42<Tenkawa>and uncomment and restart gdm3
18:44<Tenkawa>its likely though thats all been rewritten since these docs
18:44<TobiX>If not, the offical GNOME handbooks says to fiddle with dconf: https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/login-userlist-disable.html.en
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18:46<Tenkawa>yeah I just looked and the changelog says its moved to dconf
18:47<Tenkawa>(in the greeter build notes)
18:47<Tenkawa>a couple versions back
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19:08<crazyfrog>i have a problem to run mariadb in an new lxc container (debian 11), mariadb don't create a socket and don't start: mariadb.service: Failed to set up mount namespacing: Permission denied
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19:09<crazyfrog>mariadb.service: Failed at step NAMESPACE spawning /usr/bin/install: Permission denied
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19:12<crazyfrog>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/295dab75/
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19:15<lifesgood>crazyfrog, lokk at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59952398/mariadb-service-failed-to-set-up-mount-namespacing-permission-denied-failed
19:15<crazyfrog>lifesgood, thank you
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19:16<crazyfrog>lifesgood, yes i read this but it's not help everyone, i'll try it
19:17<crazyfrog>kernel update i have to restart my desktop sorry
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20:20<GNUtoo>hi, in https://wiki.debian.org/IRC I didn't find a channel for debootstrap
20:21<GNUtoo>I've downloaded the debootstrap source from https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debootstrap.git, and I'd like to send 2 patches
20:21<GNUtoo>(I'm assuming that it's the official debootstra source repository)
20:21<GNUtoo>Is there a procedure somewhere that explains where to send such patches (is there a mailing list?)
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20:22<sney>GNUtoo: the installer team lives in #debian-boot so that's probably the people to ask, though sending patches is usually done through either MRs on salsa or bug reports on the debian bts
20:22<sney>!reportbug
20:22<dpkg>reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA>
20:23<GNUtoo>Thanks, what is Mrs? Merge requests?
20:23<sney>yes, merge requests. anyone who wants to contribute can sign up for a salsa account, though depending on your email provider you may have to ask for manual approval in #salsa.
20:24<GNUtoo>ok, thanks a lot
20:24<sney>np
20:25<GNUtoo>I'll try the merge request as I don't have 'bugreport' in the distribution I use (which isn't debian)
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20:26<sney>it's reportbug, but you don't usually need to do both unless they explicitly say so in the repo readme
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20:32<crazyfrog>hey, what is with the paket solr-tomcat it is missing?
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20:34<crazyfrog>lifesgood, i solved the error with mariadb, the link was helpful thx!
20:34-!-mambang [~rnm@0002afe6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:34<lifesgood>good to know crazyfrog , you are welcome.
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20:36<lifesgood>around here sometimes people joke, play, mock, but there are good people around.
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20:38<somiaj>,v solr-tomcat
20:38<judd>Package: solr-tomcat on amd64 -- stretch: 3.6.2+dfsg-10+deb9u2; stretch-security: 3.6.2+dfsg-10+deb9u2; buster: 3.6.2+dfsg-20+deb10u2; sid: 3.6.2+dfsg-22
20:39<somiaj>,i liblucene3-java
20:39<judd>Package liblucene3-java (java, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Full-text search engine library for Java - core library. Version: 3.6.2+dfsg-24; Size: 1524.8k; Installed: 1733k; Homepage: http://lucene.apache.org
20:40<crazyfrog>somiaj, i need it for bullseyes
20:41<somiaj>looks like the same source package (lucene-solr) now creates the packages liblucene3-java and liblucene3-contrib-java
20:41<somiaj>which are both in bullseye
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20:41<crazyfrog>ok i will have a look thank you
20:41<crazyfrog>is it possible to up
20:41<crazyfrog>nothing ok
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20:47<lifesgood>oracle licence of use of java still deny any modification of its code. this is enought motive to gradually get rid o java from FOSS software.
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20:49<somiaj>openjdk meets the DSFG and can have its code modified, orcal does produce both an FOSS version and their version with aditional features, which is not uncommon.
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20:50<ZenWalker>there is no free firmware for intel wireless cards?
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20:51<somiaj>ZenWalker: nope, wireless cards in general have non-free firmware due to legal reasons (because they cannot give users the ability to control the power/bandwidth of wirless transmissions in many countries)
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20:51<somiaj>so basically every wireless company just uses non-free firmware to deal with these issues, and most wireless hardware that doesnt' need non-free firmware includes it flashed onto the chips, so it is still there
20:52<ZenWalker>there are some free cards (no intel)
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20:52<ZenWalker>ah ok
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20:53<somiaj>I personally would rather have non-free firmware in userland as opposed to having to flash my wifi card if it needs an update
20:54<somiaj>there are some very limited cards you can flash purely free firmware on, and I'm unsure on the details here. I also know openwrt has to be very careful about support and what it allows people to do with wireless routers for a similar reason.
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20:55<somiaj>so it isn't that fully free firmware/wireless cards could exist, it just is much harder to ensure legal issues in different countries, so this is why I think many companies just use non-free firmware (gives them more control which partly deals with legal issues around wireless communication)
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20:55<somiaj>note they may also prefer just to keep their stuff closed, but wireless comuncation has some additional issues
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20:56<somiaj>ZenWalker: anyways probably to much info, wifi cards almost always require non-free firmware, and those that don't include it on the chip (and I think there is a rare version of atheros that you can flash purely free firmware on)
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21:00<coso>hello everybody
21:00<somiaj>greetings
21:00<coso>i just installed bullseye and i have a little problem; i need to get my keyboard input going
21:01<coso>i need the latin american spanish keyboard layout, but i can't get it to work
21:01<coso>setxkbman latam works; but that doesn't stick
21:01<somiaj>There are various ways to go about this, what DE do you want to do?
21:01<coso>xfce
21:02<coso>i tried ibus but it doesn't seem to have latam? only spain spanish
21:02<somiaj>you could install ibus to help with this, I think this can be persistant. 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration' should also work to set the default tty and xorg keymap
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21:03<coso>i have done that to no avail
21:03<somiaj>ahh I don't know much about non english layouts, so I can't be of much help on details. I'm surprised ibus doesn't have that layout if it is on your system.
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21:03<somiaj>ibus may overwrite the keyboard-configuration setup.
21:04<coso>btw where are the files for the loadkeys command?
21:04<somiaj>this may or may not work, https://askubuntu.com/questions/1014585/how-to-add-a-latin-american-keyboard-in-17-10
21:04<somiaj>but it seems to suggest that those adittional layouts may not be visible depending on your locale, what locale are you using?
21:05<somiaj>You could also just create a startup script for xfce that just runs the command that is working
21:07<coso>my locale is en_IE.UTF-8
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21:07<coso>but LANG is en_US.UTF-8
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21:07<coso>i want my system to be in english, but i have a latam keyboard
21:08<coso>the irish locale is there because i like irish dates
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21:08<somiaj>yea, here is something I have little experience with, I was just pointing out that maybe some keyboard options may only be visible depending on your locale (according to tha tpost)
21:09<somiaj>but personally I'd probably just add a startup script to xfce, as that sounds simplest to me if you can't find a way to configure this in ibus or xfce
21:09<coso>yeah i think i might just do that
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21:12<coso>thanks somiaj!
21:12<coso>brb
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21:23<Tenkawa>shouldnt he also use dpkg-reconfigure locales?
21:24<Tenkawa>not just keyboard-configuration
21:26<somiaj>Depends, they seem to have their locale setup the way they want (and I belive the suggested method is to set locale to none with dpkg-configure locales so users can set up the one they want)
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21:27<Tenkawa>I agree although if memory serves correct that dialog menu allows you to select the hooks for that
21:27<somiaj>It allows you to select the default and which ones you want to build for the system.
21:27<Tenkawa>I'm running 3 languages on here
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21:30<coso>ok i got it all working! apparently ibus doesn't do anything at all
21:30<coso>and i had to install the console-data package to get the kernel keymaps
21:30<coso>aaaand theres xfce4-keyboard-settings that i just missed altogether
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21:30<somiaj>oh good work, wonder why ibus isn't doing anything, I thought that it was supose to (maybe it might depend on desktop/other software installed)
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21:32<Tenkawa>cheers all.. time to get ready for next round of crazy weather around here
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21:35<coso>I guess something weird happened when i installed bullseye because i already had a /home partition
21:35<coso>because i had a clean install on another machine and none of these problems happened
21:36<somiaj>yea, sometimes user configurations in /home/username can cause problems with newer software.
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21:46<twb>Does gnome3 have a key chord for "move current window to next display" ?
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21:46<twb>I don't mean virtual desktop, I mean like the LCD monitor left of here
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21:54<himesama>what are the chances (subjective, i know this isn't really possible to determine) that an increase of 2+ GB disk space will result, even temporarily, from an upgrade from stretch to buster and then buster to bullseye/
21:54<somiaj>did you use apt-get or apt to do the upgrades?
21:55<himesama>in the root partition
21:55<himesama>i will follow whatever the instructions say i guess
21:55<somiaj>du -h /var/cache/apt/archives (how much space is used there?)
21:56<himesama>8k
21:56<himesama>i always run clean or whatever it is
21:57<somiaj>well a lot would depend on what packages you have installed, but 2bg increase per upgrade says you either have tons of packages or you weren't deleteing the archives
21:57<himesama>i could move the 9gb partition (which has a 1gb swapfile) to a 15gb partition before the upgrades, but that is slightly risky
21:57<himesama>i run pretty lean
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21:58<himesama>it is just a small partition is all, and thought if pretty much the dupgrades don't add mucvh then i will ust upgrade without trying to move the root partition first
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22:04<somiaj>I would try to huntdown where the data is being used, du -h /var, du -h /usr, etc
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22:06<twb>If you make /var/cache/apt/archives a tmpfs (and optionally /var/lib/apt/lists) you might use RAM instead of disk
22:09<himesama>i keep running out of the 6gb i have for some reason. even closing all x etc. would make me think it could ge3t used up.
22:09<himesama>Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
22:09<himesama>9.5G 7.2G 1.9G 80% /
22:10<himesama>with 1gb swapfile
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22:10<somiaj>you will need space to download the debs, maybe twb suggestion would help, put /var/cache/apt/archives as another filesystem just for the upgrade to have the space to dowonload the .debs, since it downloads them all before the upgrade
22:11<somiaj>the other option is upgrade in chunks which can be a little more difficult
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22:12<twb>How big is your installed set of packages?
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22:12<twb>That would give you a rough idea
22:13<himesama>hmm, so maybe i should try moving the root partition after all if this could be an issue. good ideas. maybe i should get rid of var cache and var lib mlocate first. also libreoffice.
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22:13<himesama>idk what measures that. i listed the df which covers root. i don' mut mch else there
22:13<twb>I wish apt would tell you that every time you run it
22:13<twb>like alpine apk does
22:13<somiaj>once you upgarde you shouldn't use another 2gigs of space, but you will need that space during the upgrade, so just make /var/cache/apt/archives some other file system just for the upgrade
22:14<somiaj>twb: what do you mean, apt always says how much it needs to download and how much additional space will be taken up?
22:14<twb>Like you do "apk add emacs" and it ends with "total space wasted: 317MB you SLOB"
22:14<twb>not just for that install, I mean, but everything currently installed
22:14<himesama>ok, so i will either make var cache apt archives another partition (by mounting over it) or try to move root to a larger partition first.
22:15<twb>himesama: is / not on LVM or ZFS?
22:15<somiaj>wonder if there is a script that does this already, since every package has an Install-Size
22:15<twb>somiaj: dpkg-dctrl + awk can do with
22:15<himesama>i don't use zfs or lvm
22:15<twb>* can do it
22:15<somiaj>sure, just wonder if something has already done this or not
22:16<twb>grep-status -FStatus -sInstalled-Size,Package -n "install ok installed" -a -FInstalled-Size --gt 0 | awk '{x += $0}END{print x}' | numfmt --to=iec-i --suffix=B --from-unit=Ki ====> 9.0GiB
22:16<twb>...that doesn't sound right
22:17<twb>OTOH my / is 8.2GiB after zfs compression
22:17<twb>I guess gnome is really wasteful
22:18<himesama>4.4GiB
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22:18<himesama>which seems low compared to the df aboe but maybe there are caches and stuff all over what do i know
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22:19<twb>It checks out. fonts-noto-extra is reported as ~350MiB in both
22:19<twb>grep-status -FStatus -sInstalled-Size,Package -n "install ok installed" -a -FInstalled-Size --gt 0 | paste -sd " \n" | numfmt --from-unit=Ki --to=iec-i --suffix=B | sort -hr | less -SC
22:19<twb>^ that tells you which is the most wasteful single packages
22:19<twb>You can also do apt-mark minimize-manual
22:20<himesama>looks about same as dpigs
22:20<somiaj>hmm that doesn't seem to work on bullseye, because grep-status puts a new line between the install size and the package name
22:20<twb>himesama: ah TIL
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22:21<himesama>well if i don't move root i will also get rid of swapfile and delete my backup kernel and libreoffice and cjk fonts i guess and also mount that arcive dir
22:21<somiaj>still seems you have plenty of space to me, you just need some additional space to download the .deb files
22:22<himesama>openjdk-8-jre-headless seems only needed for libreoffice
22:22<himesama>ok
22:22<twb>jre isn't even needed for the useful parts of libreoffice
22:22<twb>it's only needed for lobase
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22:22<himesama>lobase?
22:25<twb>himesama: MS Access clone
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22:27<lifesgood>if you allow my oppinion, ms access is the worst attemp to do a database in history.
22:27<twb>I disagree. BBx Pro is categorically worse.
22:28<twb>That's written in BASIC for AIX, and uses CSV files as the on-disk storage
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22:30<lifesgood>access is as bad for microsoft as paradox for embarcadero. and even firebird is not that ok.
22:31<twb>Who cares? sqlite3 exists. It's deployed on more systems than any Microsoft product.
22:31<himesama>seems impossible (normally) to purge openjdk-8-jre-headless however: libreoffice-core is a reverse depend.
22:32<twb>That's... not what I remember
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22:38<twb>himesama: I can't reproduce that, with this test case
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22:38<twb>mmdebstrap bullseye /dev/null --aptopt="Acquire::http::Proxy \"$(auto-apt-proxy)\"" --variant=apt --include=libreoffice-writer --logfile=/dev/stdout | grep -F -e java -e jre
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22:39<twb>himesama: in other words, libreoffice-writer doesn't pull in Java
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22:40<lifesgood>I have an old laptop with 2G RAM, I managed with mkswap to increase total swap, but after I thinked, swap just mirror the RAM (or not). for a buzzy memory, increase in swap may be of some help?
22:41<ens>it will be of help.
22:41<twb>It's a recommends but not a depends
22:41<twb>lifesgood: if your workload fits into 2G, swap will not help at all
22:42<twb>lifesgood: if you run a GUI browser, though, it probably does not fit into 2G :-(
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22:43<himesama>i did apt-cache rdepends "$@" on my system
22:45<himesama>lifesgood: swap does not quite mirror (i.e. make a synced identical copy of) ram. it increases virtual (i.e. works like real but isn't real) ram.
22:45<twb>Well, all I can tell you is that for a long time I've shipped LO writer/calc/impress without java, and AFAICT I still can.
22:45<himesama>dunno
22:46<himesama>i only really need lo for the spreadsheet
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22:46<twb>swap doesn't "mirror" RAM at all. It's essentially using an SSD or HDD as "very slow RAM".
22:47<lifesgood>what I know from experience is that when the swap starts to much recruited the pc turns into a tortoise.
22:47<himesama>that can occur
22:48<dvs>lifesgood: adding RAM is the single biggest change you can do to improve performance.
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22:49<twb>I was on 2GB until 2019, then GUI browser forced me to upgrade
22:50<twb>Everything else was fine with 2GB and no swap
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22:54<lifesgood>in the past I rented a server (ubuntu) with only 500MB RAM, I can say debian do the same. untill now debian is the most memory economic OS I know.
22:55<twb>lifesgood: alpine and OpenWRT need significantly less resources.
22:55<twb>lifesgood: OpenWRT recently dropped support for 4MB nonvolatile, 16MB volatile.
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22:57<twb>In my testing, Debian 9 on x86-64 needs at least 256MB at install time (using d-i) and 128MB at post-install.
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22:59<twb>(That's assuming a full kernel; if you're just a container you can get away with less)
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23:03<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/ch03s04.en.html#idm594 -- 256 they say is min, and 512 recommended for a no destkop install
23:04<somiaj>this is kinda minimum requirements
23:04<twb>Thanks
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23:06<twb>lifesgood: did we answer your question?
23:06<lifesgood>yes tnx
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 17 00:00:58 2021