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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-18

---Logopened Wed Aug 18 00:00:13 2021
---Daychanged Wed Aug 18 2021
00:00-!-hybridwipe [~null@cpe-173-174-99-192.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
00:00-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux
00:03-!-oliva [~oliva@luke.sic.rm.cnr.it] has quit [Server closed connection]
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00:03-!-oliva [~oliva@luke.sic.rm.cnr.it] has joined #debian
00:03-!-oliva is "Gennaro Oliva" on #debian #debian-hpc
00:05-!-nulleip [~luiz@189.34.167.234] has joined #debian
00:05-!-nulleip is "Luiz" on #debian
00:09-!-Strelnikov [~strelniko@h-98-128-172-245.A785.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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00:11-!-bilbo is "Abhishek L,,," on #debian
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00:12-!-avu is "jmh" on #tor #debian
00:12-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:12-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:18-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:19-!-bitblit [~bitblit@0BGAADK7D.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:19-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:19-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #debian #llvm @#yugiohjcj #oftc #tor #oolite #dri-devel #dri
00:19-!-bitblit [~bitblit@7YZAACHUK.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:19-!-bitblit is "bitblit" on #debian
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00:23-!-NomadJim [~Jim@72.168.160.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:23-!-cpina [~cpina@2001:4b98:dc2:53:216:3eff:fe82:b1fb] has joined #debian
00:23-!-cpina is "Carles Pina" on #debusine #debian
00:27-!-diogenes_oftc [~diogenes_@188.208.121.100] has joined #debian
00:27-!-diogenes_oftc is "Nicolas" on #debian
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00:29-!-stmuk is "steve" on #debian
00:31-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has left #debian [Disconnected: Received SIGTERM]
00:31-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
00:31-!-mimi89999 is "mimi89999" on #debian #postmarketos-devel
00:33-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-222-241-229.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
00:33-!-bullgard4 is "realname" on #debian #bluez #kernelnewbies #debian-next
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00:37-!-libcomid [~quassel@2404:8000:1002:85ae:efc4:d12f:d0a0:9505] has joined #debian
00:37-!-libcomid is "libcomid,,," on #debian
00:37-!-nikos [~nikos@00021c84.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:37-!-nikos is "Nikos" on #debian-rust #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
00:39-!-gtristan [~tristan@110.11.238.160] has joined #debian
00:39-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
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00:40-!-solitario is "Adrian Immanuel Kieß" on #debian-next #debian
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00:41-!-ivan81 [~Thunderbi@net-93-150-198-234.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:46-!-jpw [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
00:46-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
00:47-!-f10_ [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
00:47-!-f10_ is "f10" on #debian
00:49-!-teepee [~teepee@8VQAACWE5.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:49-!-teepee [~teepee@7YZAACHVL.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:49-!-teepee is "teepee" on #oftc #debian
00:49-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has joined #debian
00:49-!-SZO is "anon" on #debian-next #debian
00:50-!-libcomid [~quassel@2404:8000:1002:85ae:efc4:d12f:d0a0:9505] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
00:52-!-bestucan [~can@0002308d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
00:52-!-Xaldafax [~xaldafax@cpe-198-72-160-101.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye...]
00:54-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Quit: A|an]
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00:56-!-squat is "squat" on #debian
00:56-!-toto_ [~toto@5.146.195.12] has joined #debian
00:56-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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00:57-!-Meli [~meli@0002a93b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:57-!-Meli is "meli" on #debian-kde #osm-sotm-ct #osm-it #fdroid #debian-social #debian #debian-next
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01:00-!-tejr is "Tom Ryder" on #perl #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian
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01:18-!-heiserhorn is "Michele Cane" on #oftc #debian-next
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01:18-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:18-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
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01:23-!-ibx2496 is "realname" on #debian @#linuxmint
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01:31-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-222-241-229.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:34-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:1672:a91:988f:4000] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:43-!-brickfat [~brickfat@176.88.31.249] has joined #debian
01:43-!-brickfat is "realname" on #debian
01:45-!-brickfat_ [~brickfat@176.88.31.249] has joined #debian
01:45-!-brickfat_ is "realname" on #debian
01:45-!-Ericounet [~Eric@82-65-37-204.subs.proxad.net] has joined #debian
01:45-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #debian #freedombox
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01:47-!-hthiery_ [~quassel@213.135.10.150] has joined #debian
01:47-!-hthiery_ is "Heiko Thiery,,," on #debian
01:49-!-boud [~boud@00026320.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
01:49-!-boud [~boud@00026320.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:49-!-boud is "Boud Roukema" on #mobian #debian-astro #debian #inhomog
01:52-!-jpw [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
01:52-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
01:56-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:57-!-berndj [~berndj@ns2.linksynergy.co.za] has quit [Server closed connection]
01:59-!-berndj [~berndj@ns1.linksynergy.co.za] has joined #debian
01:59-!-berndj is "Bernd Jendrissek" on #debian #tor #osm-za #openttd #oftc
02:00-!-Jad [~Nashmi@0002ae6d.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:00-!-Jad is "Jad " on #debconf-fosdem #bash-completion #bash #debian-dpkg #debian-gnupg #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
02:01-!-ach- [~spo@ip-109-43-49-222.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
02:01-!-ach- is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #spooky #debian
02:01-!-hacker [~hacker@103.161.144.117] has joined #debian
02:01-!-hacker is "realname" on #debian
02:01-!-hacker is now known as Guest4700
02:01-!-holmgren [magnus@h-79-136-70-93.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Server closed connection]
02:01<Guest4700>ifconig
02:01<Guest4700>hi
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02:03-!-holmgren [magnus@h-79-136-70-93.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
02:03-!-holmgren is "Magnus Holmgren" on @#debian-se #debian
02:04-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has joined #debian
02:04-!-SZO is "anon" on #debian-next #debian
02:05-!-tagomago [~tagomago@static-96-219-230-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
02:05-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
02:05<brickfat>polkit
02:05<brickfat>hi
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02:06-!-ach- is now known as ach
02:06-!-zem [~krikkit@00016a79.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:06-!-zem is "Marvin" on #debian #ceph #debian-next
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02:07-!-hbautista_ is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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02:10-!-FLD is "fld@r00t3d" on #bash #virt #debian-next #debian
02:13-!-hlauer [~hlauer@ip5f596799.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
02:13-!-hlauer is "realname" on #debian
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02:23-!-zbychuk7 is "Zbyszek" on #debian #alpine-linux
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02:27-!-harambe is "realname" on #debian
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02:27-!-NTduck is "dduck" on #debian
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02:29-!-harambe is "realname" on #debian
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02:31-!-clowninasack is "clowninasack" on #debian #bitlbee
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02:34-!-Kaiserpinguin is "tux" on #debian
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02:35-!-Strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #dfri_se #debian #tor #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project #tor-relays
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02:35-!-andger is "Andrey G-w" on #debian #linux
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02:38-!-colin is "Colin" on #debian
02:38<colin>hi
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02:39-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
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02:43<jochum>hi
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02:43-!-Mikaela is "Mikaela <suomalainen@mikaela.info>" on #debian-next #debian #tor #fdroid
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02:51<PaulePanter>Hi. debianutils 5.0-1 deprecated /usr/bin/which.
02:51<PaulePanter>$ which test
02:51<PaulePanter>/usr/bin/which: this version of 'which' is deprecated and should not be used.
02:51<PaulePanter>/usr/bin/test
02:51-!-pi [~pi@110.84-234-170.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
02:51<PaulePanter>(Debian sid/unstable)
02:51-!-PaulePanter was kicked from #debian by debchange [flood detected]
02:51-!-pi [~pi@110.84-234-170.customer.lyse.net] has joined #debian
02:51-!-pi is "pi" on #test1234 #debian
02:51-!-PaulePanter [~paul@mail.gw90.de] has joined #debian
02:51-!-PaulePanter is "Paul Menzel" on #debian #radeon #debian-next
02:52<PaulePanter>Sorry.
02:52<PaulePanter>Any idea what to use instead of which from debianutils?
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02:55-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
02:55<jochum>PaulePanter: maybe whereis?
02:56<jochum>PaulePanter: I'm no sid user :/
02:57-!-bittin [~bittin@81-231-116-57-no53.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
02:57-!-bittin is "realname" on @#debcamp2021 #debian-next #debcamp #debian
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02:58-!-kevinmoilar is "Kevin Mueller" on #debian
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02:58-!-towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin
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02:59-!-kevinmoilar is "Kevin Mueller" on #debian
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02:59<somiaj>PaulePanter: note #debian-next for sid questions
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02:59-!-seba is "Sebastian" on #xen #debian @#openstack-meetings
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03:00-!-kevinmoilar is "Kevin Mueller" on #debian
03:00<somiaj>PaulePanter: does 'man which' give any additional information. The only thing I see in the changelog is Deprecate which.
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03:03-!-newtons [~newtons@2a02:120b:2c42:7650:f66f:24e1:5d89:955c] has joined #debian
03:03-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
03:06<PaulePanter>somiaj: Thank you. That was it. type and command -v are supposed to be used.
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03:07-!-CockoX is "CRNX" on #debian
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03:07-!-alpernebbi is "Alper Nebi Yasak" on #debian-next #linux-rockchip #aarch64-laptops #panfrost #packaging #debian ##panfrost-offtopic
03:07<somiaj>PaulePanter: good
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03:11-!-tremon is "Arno Schuring" on #debian
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03:18-!-mzf is "realname" on #salsaci #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-hpc #minidebconf-online #mini-DebConf-fr #debian
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03:22-!-trebmuh is "Olivier Humbert" on #elektroid #oftc #linux-rt #debian-next #debian-live #debian-edu #debian
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04:48<tarzeau>are there stable bullseye releases of https://raspi.debian.net/daily-images/ ?
04:49<tarzeau>ah the small note at the bottom explains
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04:51<WizardNumberNext>tarzeau: the note at bottom does not answer your question
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04:52<WizardNumberNext>neither mine. Are images for RPi3 and Rpi4 arm64?
04:53<Guest4713>hi
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04:54<WizardNumberNext>anybody with experience of running Raspbeery Pi 4B as FTP, HTTP, VPN, NextCloud Server? I am thinking about USB "passthrough" as well. You know USB on network, I simply forgotten Linux Kernel proper name
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04:54<WizardNumberNext>Guest4713: Good Morning
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05:45<alex_fly>anyone got the problem getting a black screen after display energy saving mode?
05:45<alex_fly>using kde and hdmi cable
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05:49<metallic>hello everyone, I have a question on a term used in an application (FeatherPad). It uses DND and I have no clue what that stands for.
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05:50<metallic>To give you some context of its use, I type an example extracted from the app's help. "NOTE: Tab DND is enabled only under X11 because, at least, Wayland has a serious issue related to DND."
05:50<grawity>most commonly "drag-and-drop"
05:51<grawity>e.g. in this specific case, sounds like dragging a tab to detach it from the window
05:51<metallic>I am very convinced it stands for drag and drop, but I am not completely sure
05:51<grawity>(and some programs indeed have had troubles with DnD-based tab detaching)
05:51<metallic>yes, that's the case, grawity
05:52<grawity>e.g. in gnome's terminal and file manager (nautilus) it's still disabled completely
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05:52<metallic>so is it common to denote the drag-and-drop feature by DND?
05:52<grawity>yes
05:52<grawity>I think "DnD" is slightly more common
05:53<metallic>the capital n in DND is what made me actually doubt :/
05:53<metallic>but makes much sense that it stands for drag-and-drop, the context is precisely moving tabs
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05:54<metallic>Well, thanks grawity. I know it looks very obvious, but I wanted to make sure :). Thanks again
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06:13<debianfun>hello! silly question but if I apt install -t jessie package on bullseye release, will I create frankendebian?
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06:13<grawity>by definition, yes, I think that's what a "frankendebian" is?
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07:06<alex11>i wonder why onionshare also installs tor browser when the Depends is just 'tor'
07:06<alex11>which is the network itself
07:08<alex11>actually i may be misremembering why i have things installed
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07:11<grische>Hi. I am currently trying to install linux-headers from the buster backports repository, but I am getting a an error regarding dependency issues.
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07:11<grische>I am running the command: apt-get install -y -t buster-backports linux-headers-amd64
07:11<grische>with the error: linux-headers-amd64 : Depends: linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 (= 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1) but it is not going to be installed
07:11<grische>How can I fix this? Do I manually need to install linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64?
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07:14<jm_>grische: that should do yes
07:15<grische>Is this a known issue? Or should I open a bug report?
07:15<grische>If I manually pin this to exactly this package, it will fail again once the package is bumped.
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07:18<jm_>don't think it's an issue
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07:23<grische>The command above worked up until recently, so I assume it is a regression in the backports somehow.
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07:28<xormor>grische: try: sudo apt -f install
07:31<ydbi>it is an issue
07:31<ydbi>the headers are newer than the backports kernel
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07:31<ydbi>you need to wait for the backports kernel to catch up
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07:33<jm_>that's odd, pdo agrees on version
07:33<grische>ydbi: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-headers-amd64 and https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-image-amd64 seem to have the same version
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07:35<ydbi>that's just the website showing it wrong
07:36<ydbi>they are different
07:36<ydbi>Package: linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1)
07:36<ydbi>Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 (5.10.46-2~bpo10+1)
07:36<ydbi>note the thing in the (...)
07:36<WizardNumberNext>alex_fly; you are lucky. I got blinking screen after power-saving (DPMS) using KDE and DisplayPort
07:36<jm_>are bots more up to date?
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07:36<grische>ydbi: my error message also complains about "(= 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1)"
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07:37<ydbi>that's because it doesn't exist anymore
07:37<grische>How long does this usually take? The error seemed to have been there for 24 hours.
07:38<ydbi>a couple weeks max, the kernel backports team unfortunately frequently forgets to upload all the necessary files at the same time
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07:38<ydbi>backports really are the unwanted stepchild in debian
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07:39<jm_>looks like judd is also outdated :)
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07:45<grische1>ydbi: I just tried installing the kernel: Unpacking linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 (5.10.46-2~bpo10+1)
07:45<grische1>It also seems to be using 5.10.46-2
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07:49<grische>Is it worth creating a bug report for this?
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07:53<alex_fly>WizardNumberNext: thats not okay for a stable release
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07:54<alex_fly>switched back to old stable until this problem is fixed. got an old z77 board
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07:59<alex_fly>WizardNumberNext: the problem is present with nvidia and nouveau driver
07:59<alex_fly>i think its a kernel problem
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08:04<WizardNumberNext>alex_fly: that is not ok for stretch, buster and bullseye. I am not sure about bookworm. Window does not do that, but I very strongly prefer Debian
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08:05<WizardNumberNext>alex_fly: you right about nouveau and nvidia, but that is not all. amdgpu is affected too, but at least display doesn't go away for good (until reboot)
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08:42<alex_fly>WizardNumberNext: in buster everything works fine. i love debian too, but i will stay at buster until this is fixed
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08:51<mason>This is why I hold back a few months.
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08:55<alex_fly>mason: you are a smart guy :)
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09:41<WizardNumberNext>alex_fly: this is what you think. I have problem, which follows DisplayPort regardless of release. I do not Have problem with HDMI and/or DVI (I have 4 monitors, 2x DP, DVI and HDMI). It is same regardless if it is nvidia or amd. This happens only on DP, as both DVI and HDMI are unaffected on both nvidia and amd
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09:53<petn-randall>alex_fly: I have the bug that sometimes my 2nd screen doesn't wake up, and I have to relock and unlock it again to work. Is that the issue you have?
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09:57<kosmenk>hi
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09:58<kosmenk>houston, we have a problem here
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09:59<kosmenk>my sddm over debian11 is not function
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10:11<Sqrt{not}>kosmenk, OK, tell us more
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10:15<grove>kosmenk: "is not function" is bad english and kind of equivalent to "doesn't work"
10:15<grove>!doesn't work
10:15<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
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10:17<alex11>(it's 'houston, we've had a problem' but nobody ever gets it right... end rant)
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10:18<Blendie>"we're breathing again"
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10:24<grove>I would also assume astronauts are trained to provide usable descriptions of the problems they encounter if they actually need to ask someone on Earth for help, i.e. follow up on it if they start with something like "we have a problem", so quoting that (badly) is just pointless
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10:27<bentham>Sounds like dramatisation.
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10:28<Sqrt{not}>luckily those ancient astronauts didn't have to deal with KDE
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10:32<mason>grove: If you've going to tell someone they've used gramatically incorrect English, it's best to do so in a sentence that doesn't itself contain three distinct grammatical errors.
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10:34<mason>(I try to catch myself when I realize I'm about to correct someone's use of language, because karma is swift, and I generally can't do it without some gaffe of my own.)
10:34<Habbie>indeed, the right key to push after typing such a sentence is ctrl-u, not enter
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10:34<ansgar>mason: But what about when one tells someone to use correct English when telling someone to use correct English? ("you've going") ;-)
10:34<mason>ansgar: See? That's precisely the issue.
10:35<ansgar>I feel a vicious circle revealing itself!
10:35<mason>ansgar: I'm not even surprised. It's like a law of nature.
10:35<ansgar>We are doomed.
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10:36<bentham>We can do better without prescriptive grammarians. It is like Guido Van Rossum trying to tell people not to use lambda.
10:36<Habbie>the only way to win is not to play
10:36<mason>Ah, this lightens my mood. Thank you all.
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10:37<Habbie>(of course i meant to say 'the only winning move is not to play' ;) )
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11:23<jimpop>+1 for the reference
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11:26<kosmenk>Hello, my apologies for the previous message, this is my problem, I upgraded from Debian 10 to Debian 11, always with KDE, but I can't log in, load sddm, write the password and it does not continue. I checked by console and the directory /usr/share/xsessions does not exist, can you help me. Sorry my english
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11:37*enyc meows
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11:42<jhutchins>kosmenk: So far your english is fine. Can you log in to the console? (Ctrl-Alt-F1)
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11:43<kosmenk>jhutchins: yes,
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11:43<at0m>kosmenk: i have an issue where it does continue if i remove the dbus cookie then restart sddm. rm ~/.dbus/sessionblahblah
11:44<at0m>kosmenk: otherwise, after login i just get a mouse pointer over a blank screen
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11:44<at0m>before i upgraded, i got the warning about the dbus thingie
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11:44<jhutchins>at0m: That sounds like it could be a problem with the video driver.
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11:44<at0m>since the upgrade, no warning. i tried to remove the thingie, restarted sddm, and then it gets me the desktop after login.
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11:45<at0m>jhutchins: thanks for the pointer. i should look into it some day when i feel more like it and have some time to do so..
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11:46<at0m>jhutchins: so far, i got by using that (probably dirty) hack
11:46<at0m>*got by by using
11:46<ydbi>I see that some people perform upgrades like this: 1) Change sources.list 2) apt-get update 3) apt-get install apt 4) apt-get upgrade 5) apt-get dist-upgrade
11:47<ydbi>is it a good practice to first do an upgrade of 'apt' before proceeding with the rest of the upgrades?
11:47<at0m>ydbi: i suggest to follow or at least read the instructions at https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.htm
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11:48<jhutchins>ydbi: I haven't seen that suggested for recent releases.
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11:48<at0m>ydbi: it suggest useful intermediate steps, and common pitfalls and errors and how to deal with these
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11:48<ydbi>at0m: that's what I'm following, but I'm also reading how other people do upgrades
11:49<jhutchins>ydbi: That is upgrading apt first.
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11:49<ydbi>apt went from version 1 to version 2, so presumably there are a lot of changes
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11:50<vv221>ydbi, I think this is mostly a change in versioning, nothing that would cause breakages ;)
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11:54<kosmenk>at0m: i can´t find .dbus, does not exits
11:55<jhutchins>kosmenk: It would be hidden, where are you looking? ls -a
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11:57<kosmenk>jhutchins: i do that, and use find too, and nothing
11:57<kosmenk>is in /etc, /usr/run/ and /var
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12:01<tepozoa>my /usr/share/xsessions is owned by mate-session-manager; is it possible your upgrade did not install/upgrade/manage a "kde-session-manager" (sic) somehow?
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12:02<tepozoa>stackoverflow says: "Reinstall plasma-workspace. /usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop belongs to that package."
12:03<WizardNumberNext>some people abuse power when thier religious feeling are hurt. I never would expect people doing this because they "know better" some subject, which they spend literally zero seconds to research
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12:03<kosmenk>marian: hi, that is possible, i looking in sddm.conf and other files and directories
12:05<tepozoa>I see in the arch wiki that if you're using Wayland, it's /usr/share/wayland-sessions/
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12:06<kosmenk>tepozoa: i think that, but is my last chance, i still trying to fix, i have too many tabs on browser and i try everything
12:06*tepozoa nods - I don't use KDE so just trying to help search for clues :)
12:08<marek>Sledge and Jon on #debian-uk does not respect https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
12:08<kosmenk>tepozoa: thanks, all help is wellcome
12:09<marek>I have been banned for argument on suncream, but have not been given any argument which opposes what I wrote
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12:11<vv221>Sorry marek, but #debian is a support channel about Debian (https://www.debian.org/), I doubt anyone here would be able to help you with suncream issues.
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12:11<sij>Does bullseye officialy support only 5.10 kernels?
12:11<marek>vv221: good point. I don't have issues with suncream tough. I am not using it.
12:12<marek>sij: I have had quick and dirty look on bookworm and there is only 5.10 kernel too, so even backport won't help at the moment
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12:13<ydbi>sij: depends on what you mean. bullseye is happy to run in docker with an ancient kernel
12:13<sij>I was actually interested in lower versions, sorry, perhaps some 4.x kernels?
12:14<ydbi>same with user-mode-linux
12:14<tarzeau>but you can build any kernel you like yourself?
12:15<sij>Okay, thanks! I was asking because I am running Debian on Rock64 (arm64) with a rockchip SoC, but I can only get "their" (rockchip's) kernels to work, but rockchip only ships 4.x kernels.
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12:21<istrive>hellow world!
12:22<at0m>sij: there's a debian arm64 channel that works on such, afaik
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12:24<istrive>how to convert the fstab mount command to a bash script so I can manually mount it when on the network? (working from a laptop and in many different networks, so I dont want to have it always executing at boot)
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12:28<Tenkawa>sij: which rockchip soc?
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12:30<at0m>sij: #debian-arm, sorry no 64 specific channel. buddy uses kernel 5.10 on his
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12:33<Tenkawa>at0m: sij: asking someone right now who builds them a lot
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12:34<Tenkawa>we have 5.10 and 5.13 successfully built on our debian systems so we know it "can" be done
12:34<Tenkawa>it does require patching
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12:35<Tenkawa>this is on rk3399 and rk28
12:35<Tenkawa>er rk3328
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12:42<sij>Thanks, Tenkawa. I have a RK3328 (from Pine64's Rock64 SBC)
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12:42<Tenkawa>yeah.. we build against quite a few different socs daily
12:43<Tenkawa>hey join the #debian-arm channel if you have some questions
12:43<Tenkawa>we might be able to help
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13:02<freem>Hi. Is there is any document I could read to make updating my slightly modified debian 10 to 11? My changes are mostly the use of the runit-init package and the recompilation of: libsdl2, mpv, mpd
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13:03<freem>the changes related to runit-init are not really a problem, but but rebuilding of the packages seems annoying, that's why I ask for resources to read about how to migrate that, if they exists. Otherwise, I'll manage, I guess
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13:05<Sqrt{not}>freem, https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ has a chapter on upgrading
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13:05<freem>(for the curious ones, the changes I made are so that I'm able to remove a shitload of python dependencies and the dbus performance problem in SDL2, which I know was solved in debian 9 but that is still completely useless to me, and I intend to continue, slowly, on that kind of repacks)
13:06<freem>Sqrt{not}: yes, I know it have
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13:07<freem>but AFAIK it addresses the normal debians, not the slightly changed, which I do not expect to be supported by Debian, but I thought that maybe some of you might know tricks to handle
13:07<rajivmars>what are these "https://pastebin.com/2uj5Tj36" errors and how to fix it?
13:08<freem>I'm honestly not sure my question should be here, but I don't know where else to ask it :)
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13:09<freem>rajivmars: I had same stuff when I tried to update to debian 11 few days ago, before it was released. I could not find any clue on my system about it, even disabling outside sources didn't work? Do you have some of those?
13:10<freem>oh, mea culpa, you clearly have those
13:10<freem>W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:4 and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list:3
13:10<rajivmars>freem: yeah i am also having the same problem
13:11<freem>rajivmars: I think it might be because those sources are not up to date
13:11<rajivmars>but the problems arrived after i add the google chrome repo
13:11<freem>the W: bla is what I quoted from your logs though
13:11<rajivmars>may be
13:11<freem>I mean
13:11<rajivmars>yeah
13:11<freem>I suspect those problems come from unofficial repos
13:12<rajivmars>but before adding the chrome repo those errors were not present.
13:12<freem>they might play with redirections, and somehow offer "multiple repos" when updating
13:12<freem>exactly my point
13:12<rajivmars>free: yeah that might be the case
13:12<freem>they are from unofficial repos, as in, non-debian repos
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13:13<rajivmars>yes, the unofficial repos
13:13<freem>I had the same but it was before the official release of debian 11 :)
13:13<rajivmars>free: are everything all right in debian 11?
13:13<rajivmars>i mean are you not facing these error in debian 11?
13:13<freem>dunno, as I said, my system is slightly modified
13:14<freem>I have not updated it to debian 11 yet, because my modifications are annoying :)
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13:15<rajivmars>ok.
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13:15<freem>what I can say by experience though, is that, even if not avised, you can downgrade a debian without too much troubles, if you are patient and know how to use `aptitude`
13:16<freem>rajivmars: is that the only tweak you did to your system? Installing chrome browser?
13:16<rajivmars>freem: I think i can live with that for some time. lets see whether the problem presents after a few updates will be arrived.
13:17<freem>I was going to suggest you to remove this external repo and to migrate, yes
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13:18<rajivmars>freem: ok i i am removing this repo and let you know what is happening thereafter. wait.
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13:21<freem>rajivmars: just to check, do you have some alternative way to boot your computer with an internet access? I never had any problem I could not solve when updating debian, but that's only my experience, better to be careful
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13:22<rajivmars>freem: after removing the chrome repo the errors have gone now.
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13:26<ens>when doing apt-cache search ... << how do i do this but search i386 architecture package list?
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13:28<rajivmars>freem: i have re-add the same repository and now the errors are not present anymore.
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13:32<freem>rajivmars: thanks for update :)
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13:32<kosmenk>at0m: jhutchins: tepozoa: marian: finally i reinstall kde >> apt-get install kde-full, it works fine
13:32<kosmenk>thanks for your help
13:32<vriaeros>good evening
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13:33<tepozoa>great news kosmenk
13:33<vriaeros>I have not any sound on my debian
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13:34<Sqrt{not}>hi vriaeros, did you previously have sound, and not now, or is this a new debian?
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13:35<rajivmars>freem: your welcome:)
13:35<vriaeros>it's a new InstaLLation
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13:36<vriaeros>and I had sound
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13:38<vriaeros>kindly advice
13:38<diogenes_oftc>vriaeros, you had sound when?
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13:39<vriaeros>when I finnished installation it was ok
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13:40<diogenes_oftc>vriaeros, give it a cold reboot also is it X or Wayland?
13:40<vriaeros>but it started to fail after an update
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13:41<vriaeros>i have cinnamon desktop
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13:44<vriaeros>it impossible for cold reboot because it is intalled on laptop
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13:47<vriaeros>kindly help
13:47<ThothK>@vriaeros what happens when you press and hold the power button for more than six seconds?
13:48<vriaeros>it shuts down
13:48<Sqrt{not}>vriaeros, what version did you originally install? and what was the update? did you upgrade from Buster to Bullseye, or do you know?
13:48<ThothK>@vriaeros Additionally, what happens when you shutdown -h now?
13:48<ThothK>OK. then you can do a cold reboot.
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13:49<vriaeros>I upgraded to testing bullseye
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13:53<vriaeros>pulse audio controo center shows dummy output
13:53<vriaeros>*control
13:54<jepler>I feel like I recently read about a (maybe new in bullsye?) program to share mouse & keyboard over a network. it wasn't synergy or x2vnc. does anyone know what program I might be thinking of?
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13:54<BCMM>jepler: barrier
13:55<BCMM>it's a fork of Synergy (since Synergy's own licensing has become bewildering)
13:55<jepler>BCMM: thank you !
13:55<BCMM>np
13:55<ThothK>@jepler and @BCMM whoa. that's pretty cool (Googling it now)
13:56<vriaeros>any suggestion?
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13:57<BCMM>ThothK: it actually is really cool. you just move your mouse cursor off the edge of your screen and on to the other computer (keyboard input goes to the machine that currently has the mouse cursor)
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13:58<BCMM>and as long as the network latency is low, it feels completely transparent
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14:35<mason>Barrier is as functionally problematic as Synergy was, but it works. I use it and it only breaks occasionally. I'd recommend piping it over SSH rather than using its built-in SSL.
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15:06<_DeLa_>Hello there! I am hyped about the release of bullseye 11.0 (I am currently running the latest Buster). Is it wise to wait at least for bullseye 11.1 before I chose to upgrade?
15:07<colo>nah, I upgraded five hosts right away, as expected: zero problems. check out the release notes for caveats, and you will be fine.
15:07<grawity>depends on what you're upgrading, I suppose
15:08<_DeLa_>I'm really just upgrading my regular desktop
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15:09<alex11>'wait until .1' isn't official advice
15:09<alex11>you can feel free to update now
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15:10<Sqrt{not}>Release notes: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/
15:10<_DeLa_>Alright! (FYI: This will be my first Debian stable upgrade. I switched from Lubuntu to Debian 10 with LXDE desktop, so...)
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15:15<mason>_DeLa_: I wait, because I'd rather have other people stub their toes and clear the path before I dive in, but upgrading can also be exciting. Whether that's a good thing or not is for you to decide.
15:15<_DeLa_>mason: ;-)
15:15<tepozoa>if you have any custom hardware with out of tree modules (say, Nvidia) do a little investigation before you begin. It can take <a 3rd party> some time to update their code for a new distro release - this is common to all distros, really
15:15<mason>!sns
15:15<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
15:18<_DeLa_>tepozoa: I don't think it's fair to bring SNS into the conversation, when we are talking about upgrading from one DEBIAN STABLE version to the next one ....
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15:18<tepozoa>real life example: if you're using the upstream repo for Zabbix, it took a bit for Debian 10 to be released. I just had a look and they have not yet built Debian 11 packages, so in this example "not ready yet" is the answer: https://repo.zabbix.com/zabbix/5.4/debian/dists/
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15:19<tepozoa>_DeLa_: it's absolutely fair if you are using anything that doesn't come from the distro itself. It is not uncommon for systems to have a few upstream repos in place for specific needs
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15:22<_DeLa_>tepozoa: My sources.list is just vanilla non-free from https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList ... the only external sources are Opera and VSCode
15:22<tepozoa>cool
15:23<mason>!warranty
15:23<dpkg>If you don't know for sure, it likely expires on or before 11:59PM, December 31, 1999, or if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces
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15:29<Sqrt{not}>_DeLa_, Note also, a slight change in the format of the security line in the source.list file
15:29<Sqrt{not}>!bullseye sources.list
15:29<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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15:30<_DeLa_>Sqrt{not}: Thanks! I would have just copied it directly from https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList into my sources.list, rather than just replace "buster" with "bullseye"
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15:33<Sqrt{not}>_DeLa_, OK, that is an excellent model
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15:33<hendursaga>Ugh. I just upgraded one of my machines from Buster to Bullseye, and now it won't finish its boot process because, I believe, unattended-upgrades is running and refuses to stop.
15:34<hendursaga>I do not recall ever installing or configuring unattended-upgrades, as crap like this happens - what do I do now? I can SSH into the machine or use a virtual console.
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15:36<_DeLa_>I haven't even installed the package "unattended-upgrades" ... lucky me!
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15:36<hendursaga>_DeLa_: is it installed by default??
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15:36<_DeLa_>hendursaga: just checked via synaptic ...on my buster 10 system , it's not installed
15:37<hendursaga>"As of Debian 9 (Stretch) both the unattended-upgrades and apt-listchanges packages are installed by default and upgrades are enabled with the GNOME desktop."
15:37<hendursaga>^^ https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
15:37<Hackerpcs>I had an 10.10 installation on vmware workstation with just ssh installed for testing but after upgrading to 11 grub says "error symbol grub_register_command_lockdown not found"
15:37<Hackerpcs>what may be the problem?
15:37<_DeLa_>hendursaga: I installed via the non-free iso with lxde desktop ... so that may be why
15:38<hendursaga>So, how do I tell this process to shut down without harming the system??
15:38<hendursaga>I suppose I could do 'systemctl disable unattended-upgrades' at some point
15:38<_DeLa_>hendursaga: Sorry, I cannot help you there, buddy ...
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15:42<hendursaga>OK so I have it stopped and disabled.. but the init STILL won't start a display manager.
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15:43<hendursaga>I'm getting warnings from amdgpu about firmware not being installed - it was installed and working before..
15:44<mason>hendursaga: I wonder if the unattended-upgrades issue is with networking.
15:44<hendursaga>mason: probably was, but still, I never wanted it installed to begin with
15:44<mason>hendursaga: Might be worth verifying that networking is good. As for how to shut down a system that is having issues... Wait, is all good now that it's uninstalled?
15:45<hendursaga>mason: I did systemctl stop unattended-upgrades, so that's no longer hogging the startup
15:45<hendursaga>*disable, too
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15:45<mason>Anyway, there's syncing, stopping what services you can, remounting root or other filesystems read-only, unmounting filesystems where possible. If systemd/dbus has you snared, once you've quiesced everything you can by hand, one last 'sync' and you can force a reboot with 'echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger'
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15:46<hendursaga>(AFK for some time, pardon)
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15:46<mason>no worries, taking off before long here too
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15:53<_DeLa_>Thanks for the feedback, guys! See ya!
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16:43<tulpa>i installed jitsi web meet. it says it creates a vhost for existing apache install but i am getting the default debian apache2 web site
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16:46<jmcnaught>tulpa: did you make a file for the vhost in /etc/apache2/sites-available/ and then enable it with a2ensite?
16:46<jmcnaught>tulpa: can you make a pastebin of the file?
16:47<tulpa>i did not. supposedly the installer script does it
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16:48<tulpa>oh i may have to re-install as i am using apache
16:48<tulpa>the variable jitsi-meet/enforce_apache for package jitsi-meet-web-config on debconf.
16:48<tulpa>unless that is something i can configure after install. i don't understand what it is asking me to do with debconf
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16:48<tulpa>https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart
16:49<tulpa>that is the guide i am following
16:49<Generic19683>Whats the panel app called for wifi?
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16:50<jmcnaught>Generic19683: nm-applet in the network-manager-gnome package
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16:51<Generic19683>On xfce and also see no nm-applet (I should have spesified)
16:52<Generic19683>I searched for wifi and networkmanager too and found nothin
16:52<jmcnaught>Generic19683: read the description of the network-manager-gnome package, it is for xfce too
16:52<Generic19683>Weird this isn't installed by default though
16:53<tulpa>how do i use debconf to force apache?
16:54<jmcnaught>tulpa: try "dpkg-reconfigure jitsi-meet" which should ask you debconf questions
16:55<jmcnaught>Generic19683: if you install xfce with the task-xfce-desktop package then network-manager-gnome is installed as a recommend.
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16:55<Generic19683>I used ISO with xfce preinstalled
16:56<Generic19683>I should probobly upgrade too, its bullseye now, I'm still on buster
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16:58<Generic19683>jmcnaught: didn't fix anything :(
16:58<tulpa>dpkg-reconfigure jitsi-meet : returns just a prompt
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17:00<sussudio>,v jitsi-meet
17:00<judd>No package named 'jitsi-meet' was found in amd64.
17:00<sussudio>that would explain it.
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17:01<tulpa>i added the package repository from https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart
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17:02<tulpa>that page says i can use debconf to enforce apache use but i have not figured it out yet
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17:03<mason>tulpa: I think you have to get jitsi from upstream.
17:03<jmcnaught>tulpa: we might not be able to help much with a third-party packge, but you can get and set debconf selections with debconf-get-selections (debconf-utils package) and debconf-set-selections
17:03<tulpa>ok thanks
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17:07<tepozoa>tulpa: it looks like it's this: echo jitsi-meet-web-config jitsi-meet/enforce_apache boolean true | sudo debconf-set-selections
17:08<tepozoa>ref: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/8474
17:09<tepozoa>that guide you're using should not have been so flippant in that paragraph and supplied the actual command. $0.02, bad writing
17:09<Generic19683>Do I just sed "s/buster/bullseye/g" /etc/apt/sources.list?
17:10<mason>Generic19683: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
17:10<vv221>Generic19683, no, you read the release notes ;)
17:10<tulpa>oh thanks! going to try that
17:10<jmcnaught>Generic19683: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/releasenotes there are instructions to upgrade there, and also what's new and issues to be aware of
17:10<vv221>Especially chapter 4: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
17:10<vv221>And 5: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html
17:11<jmcnaught>Generic19683: take note that s/buster/bullseye/g is not sufficient this time because the security archive changed its name
17:11<Generic19683>seems like I was right. still an odd way to update though, I wish there was a single command
17:12<tulpa>tepozoa, do i need to re-install jitsi after issuing that command?
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17:19<Sqrt{not}>!bullseye sources.list
17:19<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
17:20<Sqrt{not}>Generic19683, ^^^^^^^
17:20<Generic19683>Thank you
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17:22<hendursaga>I think I might just re-install Debian on my machine - it was mostly unconfigured anyways :/
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17:34<tepozoa>tulpa: sorry, work things -- in /general/ there is a command "dpkg-reconfigure" which you can use instead of reinstalling that package (like: sudo dpkg-reconfigure jitsi-meet-web-config ) but as this is a vendor built package it may or may not work
17:35<tepozoa>it might be required to reinstall jitsi-meet-web-config but try dpkg-reconfigure first "as usual" and see how it goes
17:35<mason>hendursaga: Should be possible to fix it up using rescue media.
17:35<mason>hendursaga: Unless you're going to reinstall Buster and wait it out.
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17:40<tepozoa>tulpa: their source is very easy to follow, that package will add this template to /usr/share and then it's "activated" by the APache enforcement debconf stuff. So as a fallback plan, you could simply read the logic in the post-install script and deploy the template yourself
17:41<tepozoa>template: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/blob/master/doc/debian/jitsi-meet/jitsi-meet.example-apache
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17:41<tepozoa>apache post-install logic: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/blob/master/debian/jitsi-meet-web-config.postinst#L68
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17:44<Sqrt{not}>%tfti Hash
17:44<dselect>Thanks For The Info, Hash!
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18:03<Etua>Hello, I have a few questions which you may have seen a few times. 1. When would you recommend to upgrade 10 -> 11? I don't need to wait till the end of support but still it's an actively used server and I really don't want to stumble upon any feature breaking bugs. 2. I still use the legacy routing method. I didn't find any information about dropping it in 11. Does that mean that I can safely update without translating my rules file to a new system?
18:04<Etua>3. Should I upgrade the host system first or the LXC containers?
18:05<vv221>1. right now for most systems, after 11.1 for highly critical ones
18:05<vv221>2. I pass ;)
18:05<vv221>3. I would advise doing the host first, then containers
18:06<Etua>vv221: Thank you
18:06<vv221>But on the LXC subject, if you are in no hurry, I should do that on a server qui soon(ish).
18:06<jhutchins>Etua: Networking should upgrade smoothly.
18:06<vv221>So I can report back at some point.
18:06<jhutchins>Etua: Have you ever heard of backups?
18:06<vv221>Back-what?
18:07<Etua>Yeah, I have heard of them and I know how much I don't trust myself that I would be able to properly create and restore them if something went really bad.
18:08<jhutchins>Practice, practice, practice.
18:08<jhutchins>It is easier to restore a backup you've made than one you haven't made.
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18:09<vv221>Etua, I was on the same boat, now I am using borgmatic. This one is really easy to use ;) — https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/borgbackup
18:09<mason>Etua: Don't wait for the end of support. Plan at the latest several month prior to the end of support. 2. You're fine using legacy networking. 3. Host first so you don't start depending on syscalls that don't exist.
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18:09<mason>s/month/&s/
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18:10<Etua>vv221: Oh, someone recommended Borg to me a few months ago but I totally forgot about it. Thanks a lot.
18:10<vv221>Before that I relied mostly a paid backup feature from my hosting provider, not anticipating that at the first legal issue with them I would end up with both no server, and no backups…
18:10<vv221>Of course, said issue happened ;)
18:10<vv221>(due to an overzealous DMCA agent)
18:11<Etua>Ouch
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18:11<vv221>Now I’m back to self-hosting at home, and encrypted backups hosted by friends.
18:11<vv221>Etua, it ended in a good way, I lost nothing ;)
18:11<vv221>(well, said hosting provider lost my trust)
18:13<vv221>Oops, just noticed I gave a link to borgbackup page, while I was thinking of borgmatic: https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/borgmatic
18:15<Etua>mason: My rules file handles LXC communication by having ~30 lines like "-A PREROUTING -i eno1 -p udp -m udp --dport 3979 -j DNAT --to-destination 10.0.3.231:3979" I suppose that adopting that to the new system shouldn't be too out of ordinary but would I benefit from it in any other way than doing it a version or two before the legacy method will be dropped?
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18:16<mason>Etua: ifupdown isn't going away.
18:17<mason>Etua: Or do you mean iptables vs nft?
18:17<Etua>I'm currently using iptables
18:17<mason>Etua: I wouldn't dream of touching that stuff during an upgrade.
18:17<mason>That's a distinct migration to be done on its own and in your QA first.
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18:20<Etua>mason: Right, then I'm going to leave it for another time after the upgrade. I didn't find any mention of iptables in the release notes so I suppose that the upgrade *should* be nonbreaking?
18:21<mason>hrm, syntax
18:21<mason>,iptables
18:22<mason>,v iptables
18:22<judd>Package: iptables on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6.0+snapshot20161117-6; stretch-backports: 1.6.2-1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.8.2-4; buster-backports: 1.8.5-3~bpo10+1; bookworm: 1.8.7-1; bullseye: 1.8.7-1; sid: 1.8.7-1
18:22<mason>Etua: There it is.
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18:23<dvs>old news!
18:23<ansgar>Etua: If you install `iptables`, it will by default use a compat wrapper and use the new nftables framework in the kernel.
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18:23<mason>Oh, right, it's that way in Buster already.
18:23<mason>heh
18:24<Etua>So I have been using nftables all along just hidden under the legacy layer?
18:24<mason>Etua: On Buster, yeah.
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18:24<mason>I should stop trying to brain publically this evening. Had two different shots and they're starting to have the expected results.
18:25<mason>(flu, covid booster)
18:25<Etua>mason: I installed 9 originally but now it runs Buster so there's that.
18:25<mason>Etua: Yeah, Debian is stable that way. I've had systems that started as Sarge.
18:26<Etua>vv221: My home self-hosting is near the upper border of being bearable financially. On the other hand I wouldn't find a provider for all these services for the comparable price. Quickly available storage is just too expensive.
18:26<mason>Maybe Potato. Don't remember.
18:27<Etua>I'm honestly impressed. What services do they run?
18:27<mason>Email, DNS.
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18:27<mason>Hm, probably Potato, as my notes from it are 2001.
18:28<jhutchins>Regarding when to upgrade: First point release is a good marker. Waiting until end-of-support means that a lot of the people that could have helped with odd errors and problems will have moved on and forgotten, or just won't care.
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18:29<mason>To augment that, waiting until end of support means that if you hit any sort of showstopper, now you're out of support with no runway left.
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18:31<Etua>I definitely did not intend to wait that long. My question was more like now vs in 2 weeks vs a few months later
18:33<Etua>I also understand that getting on a bandwagon of people upgrading the same or the next day after release and flooding the forums issues they encounter would not help.
18:33<mason>I like "three months" or "point release"
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18:35<Generic19683>I like rolling release but thay're all for advanced users it seems
18:35<Etua>mason: BTW I understand why you wouldn't want to reconfigure e-mail once it's there. I have done it two times, neither was pleasant and I have done it small scale for myself ;)
18:36<mason>Etua: My move from NetBSD to Debian also including moving from Sendmail to Postfix and dropping UUCP as my primary means of getting email. That was scary enough.
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18:40<vv221>Etua, I use similar rules to the one you shared, with nftables. Do you want me to share my /etc/nftables.conf so you can have an idea of how it is handled?
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18:41<vv221>(night time here, so please ping me so I don’t miss you answer tomorrow)
18:41<Generic19683>mason: UUCP is hard and confused though. Seems like an upgrade to me!
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18:42<mason>Generic19683: But it was *known* and *trustworthy*. :P
18:42<Generic19683>When?
18:43<Etua>vv221: Definitely. I remember that getting LXC to work in any way 2 releases ago was difficult enough so at some point I gave up with an idea of migration to nftables. After the upgrade I could try it though.
18:43<Generic19683>Who even has a UUCP server anymore for legit purposes and not a hobby? Is there some company frozen in time?
18:43<mason>Generic19683: This was not recent.
18:43<Generic19683>UUCP?
18:44<Generic19683>Its 00:44 here, I'm tierd
18:44<Generic19683>I think I'mma go sleep now. goodbye
18:45<mason>o/
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18:46<Etua>vv221: So if you could send it I would be grateful.
18:47-!-zbychuk7 [~zbychuk@178-37-154-220.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit []
18:47<Etua>And once again thanks to mason jhutchins ansgar and you for the information you provided.
18:47<mason>Etua: happy to help
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20:01<debian111x>Had motherboard replaced on a Debian *only* (version 10.7) computer (Dell XPS 15 9500). User data all backed-up. Trying to figure-out grub recovery. Booted into "rescue mode". Mounted root, /boot, /boot/efi. [SSD has the partitions: #1 536.9 MB B ESP; #2 511.7 MB ext2 /boot; #3 2.0TB crypto (contains root and home)]. Was going to do "Force GRUB installation to the EFI removable media path": unsure about device that should be specified.
20:01<debian111x>Should it be: /dev/nvme0n1 ???
20:05<Sqrt{not}>debian111x, if the SSD is the same, I don't think you should need to alter it?
20:06<Sqrt{not}>debian111x, what is the "removable media" in this case?
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20:06<Sqrt{not}>debian111x, or is it the case that the SSD is replaced also?
20:06<debian111x>SSD did not change one bit. Booting with a USB stick -- the one I installed with.
20:07<debian111x>I see the "Dell" logo... hear a beep.. then see "No bootable device found"
20:07<Sqrt{not}>if SSD is unchanged, you just need to make the new mobo want to boot from the ESP
20:08<Sqrt{not}>you may need to poke around in the new BIOS to enable EFI booting
20:09<Sqrt{not}>you probably can also turn on secure boot, since you are set up with ESP
20:09<debian111x>I checked the BIOS settings (secure boot "off"; SATA is configured to AHCI mode; Fast boot: is "Thorough")
20:10<Sqrt{not}>I Don't remember what "Fast boot" is supposed to be, but turn on secure boot
20:11<Sqrt{not}>there should be some choice like BIOS vs GPT or something like that, my only dell bios is the machine I'm typing on, so I can't check
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20:12<Sqrt{not}>you might want to remove the USB stick, and just experiment with BIOS settings until it finds the SSD and boots from it.
20:12<Sqrt{not}>probably BIOS vs UEFI is the choice you want to set to UEFI, if I remember right, and turn on secure boot
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20:16<debian111x>The BIOS settings are what they were previously when the machine worked. I think the BIOS doesn't know where to look on the drive.
20:17<Sqrt{not}>it should be booting from that ESP partition
20:18<Sqrt{not}>did you re-create the BIOS settings from notes, or how did you make them the same on a new mother board?
20:18<debian111x>I can see in the BIOS that the computer can see the SSD
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20:19<debian111x>re-created the BIOS settings based on notes when I did the install
20:22<Sqrt{not}>Have you changed anything on the SSD?
20:22<debian111x>nothing
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20:23<Sqrt{not}>have you tried booting in UEFI/Secure mode, and with the USB stick removed?
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20:24<debian111x>secure mode boot yes: it fails
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20:25<Sqrt{not}>is there a BIOS (or similar) vs. UEFI (or similar) setting ?
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20:30<Sqrt{not}>debian111x, if you press the F12 during boot, can you choose which device to try to boot one time?
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20:30<Sqrt{not}>press it during early early bootup, before any other menu comes
20:31<himesama>n.b. on my bios, it has been the case that f12 works but boot sequence setting in bios does not
20:31<debian111x>Boot Mode is "UEFI only"
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20:32<debian111x>In the "Storage" portion of the BIOS I see the SSD
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20:34<Sqrt{not}>hmmm, looking at the manual of my Dell "precision" (a descendant of XPS models) I see a BIOS setting for SATA operation, which it says defaults to "Raid ON"
20:35<Sqrt{not}>ahh, yes, you alread set that to AHCI
20:36<debian111x>When I flip to "Boot Configuration" the drive does not show up
20:37<Sqrt{not}>eh? what does show up there?
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20:39<debian111x>the USB stick [UEFI SanDisk Cruzer U ....]
20:40<Sqrt{not}>please remove the USB stick
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20:45<mendelmunkis>according to the release notes for bullseye, "If you are upgrading remotely via an ssh link it is recommended that you take the necessary precautions to be able to access the server through a remote serial terminal." how likely is this to be necessary?
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20:46<No1x3r0>Not sure if I'm in the correct place; but, I'm having trouble installing Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) on an older Intel based Apple MacBook Air (one I've installed linux on before); The installation doesn't seem to "find an available wireless network" so I supply my ESSID and provide my password and it just loops back to telliing me "Attempting to find an available wireless network failed" The firewire connected etherene
20:47<mendel_munkis>have you tried the non-free installer?
20:47<No1x3r0>I've tried both DVD and netinstall images, same issue on both.
20:47<No1x3r0>mendel_munkis: no, I guess, not, I accuired the image from distrowatch, can you direct me to the appropriate non-free installer?
20:48<mendel_munkis>https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/
20:48<raven523>you might just need to install firmware packages
20:48<No1x3r0>mendel_munkis: thank you; also when I boot the usb, it shows two EFI options, without any distinction of one or the other, any idea to know which is the first and which is the 2nd ?
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20:49<mendel_munkis>raven523: installing the necessary firmware package on the installer took me several tries, for most people who haven't thought of it using the unofficial installer is probably better.
20:51<Sqrt{not}>No1x3r0, your earlier message was cut off after "The firewire connected etherene" because it was too long. what about ethernet??
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20:51<mendel_munkis>also is there any advantage to upgrading using screen as opposed to mosh?
20:53<No1x3r0>Sqrt{not}: doesn't show cut off on this side but anyways: "...The firewire connected etherenet doesn't appear to be detected either"
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20:53<Sqrt{not}>ahhh, maybe also could benefit from some firmware?
20:54<No1x3r0>hopefully, hopefully mendel_munkis pointed me in the right direction ;)
20:54<No1x3r0>going to go test it and see, thank you folks and mendel_munkis
20:55<nano_python>I'm having a problem with firewalld on Debian 11. After installing it, the whole network died. Stopping the firewalld service doesn't fix the problem, the whole network is still dead.
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20:58<sussudio>sounds more like failwalld.
20:58<debian111x>solved: In the BIOS one can browse the EFI directory find "grubx64.efi"
20:59<Sqrt{not}>debian111x, OK, very good job :)
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21:05<debian111x>:-) thanks!
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21:08<nano_python>Ok, so if you install firewalld the network goes down. Disabling UFW via "ufw disable" fixes the problem.
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21:23<No1x3r0>It's working! thanks again mendel_munkis :)
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21:30<jhutchins>nano_python: So firwalld disables ports by default for services you want.
21:30<jhutchins>nano_python: Perhaps you need to configure it before you enable it.
21:30<nano_python>No. The default for firewalld is ssh open.
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21:31<jhutchins>nano_python: After all, blocking ports is what it's supposed to do.
21:31<nano_python>Having firewalld and ufw active at the same time is the problem.
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21:31<jhutchins>Well that makes sense.
21:31<mendel_munkis>you're welcome
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21:31<nano_python>Yes. But if you install firewalld without knowing that you need to disable ufw, you break the network.
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21:32<nano_python>So if someone only has ssh access to a system, they can completely lose access if they install firewalld.
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21:32<youhaj>nano_python you can add a rule to allow incoming packets on a specific port for ssh
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21:33<nano_python>That's not the problem. If I install firewalld, I can't even ping debian.org or apt update because the network is broken.
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21:38<jhutchins>nano_python: Perhaps file a bug report on the documentation that mentions that.
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21:39<nano_python>I have no idea how to do that.
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21:46<No1x3r0>coming from typical unencrypted to full encrypted lvm partition scheme is daunting and incoherent to me :(
21:47<Sqrt{not}>nano_python, what documentation did you follow for your installation?
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21:48<Sqrt{not}>%lvm
21:48<nano_python>I didn't install Debian 11, this is from a VPS service called vultr. As for installing firewalld, just "apt install firewalld".
21:48<dselect>[lvm] the Linux Logical Volume Manager (http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/). Resources: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/, <lvm_tutorial>, <lvm removedisk>, <lvm movelv>, <install using lvm>, http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/410, http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/wiki/ IRC: #lvm on irc.libera.chat.
21:49<Sqrt{not}>nano_python, did you read any firewall documentation as you made this change?
21:49<nano_python>No.
21:50<Sqrt{not}>nano_python, what motivated you to install the thing then?
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21:51<nano_python>I've used firewalld on various other distros such as Fedora, CentOS, etc. So I know how to setup and use firewalld more than ufw.
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21:56<kopyking>Hey all, looking for advise on how on the correct package to file a bug against. I'm running miniupnpd (yes I know - security, but the kids want to play the switch) and the miniupnpd run script (/usr/libexec/miniupnpd-start-stop-helper.sh) makes a call to `update-alternatives --query iptables`. I have nftables on my machine and that call returns nothing. Is this a bug with nftables not populating
21:57<kopyking>/etc/alternatives or with miniupnpd for looking for it in the first place? thank you.
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22:14<Sqrt{not}>nano_python, yeah, I don't know about ufw. It would blindside me if I didn't know it was there.
22:17<jhutchins> kopyking: Can you list the nftables/iptables rules manually?
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22:24<jhutchins>kopyking: It's not surprising that if you install two different packages that both manage the same thing you could have problems, and that's not a situation the packagers should have to anticipate.
22:24<bleb>what are the live images with "standard" in place of the desktop environment?
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22:24<jhutchins>If you put your car in reverse at 60mph, it's not really the company's fault if you break the driveshaft.
22:26<bleb>as in debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso
22:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 979] by debhelper
22:28<jhutchins>bleb: Dunno, how about you run one up and tell us?
22:29<somiaj>bleb: you should be able to get the list of all packages that are on each iso. Standard doesn't contain any desktop, it is more meant to be a command line recovery tool
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22:33<bleb>thanks
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23:23<richard_h>anyone else seen drag & drop stop working in Thunderbird?
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23:24<richard_h>probably after a recent upgrade in buster, I think
23:24<richard_h>for moving emails between folders
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23:27<anon7>hi
23:27<ach>!hi
23:27<dpkg>hello, ach
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23:36<richard_h>restart of thunderbird fixed it
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23:45-!-tzafrir is "Tzafrir Cohen,,," on #debian #debconf-haifa @#wikipedia-he @#osm-il #debian-hpc #wayland #debian-sponsors @#purism
23:46-!-hybridwipe [~null@cpe-173-174-99-192.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
23:46-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux
23:57-!-newtons [~newtons@101.39.196.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit []
23:58-!-Brainium [~brainium@00028330.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
---Logclosed Thu Aug 19 00:00:00 2021